City Commission - Special Meeting

Madam Mayor, it is 6.02 and we are live.

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the City of Lake Worth Beach Special City Commission Meeting of July 27th, Monday, 2026. May I have the roll call, please?

Mayor Betty Rush.

Here.

Vice Mayor Mimi May. Present. Commissioner Sarah Maliga. Present. Commissioner Christopher McVoy.

Present by Zoom.

Commissioner Anthony Segrich.

Present. Ms. Maliga will lead us in the pledge. What? Myth stream.

I'm glad you're here. of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay, we have three items, all of rather important issues tonight. I'm thinking that staff is going to give us a little presentation. We're starting out. So we're going to start out with unfit. And folks, it's best if we keep the chatter down, if you would. It's very distracting and it interferes with the recording. So the first one is an update on the city hall annex. And I see Mr. Brown here. Are you going to give us a presentation, Mr. Brown?

Brief. So Jamie Brown, public works director. What I wanted to do. Oh, thank you. I provided, I was trying to figure out what to kind of present there. So I figured I'd just kind of bullet point some of the main points I pulled out of the actual assessment. For those who don't have a chance to go through it yet. So the overall building is in fair condition for renovation, but it does require significant improvements for the Florida building code requirements, historical intent and occupant safety. The percentage required would trigger a level three alteration for the code. which means that more than 50% of the building would have to be addressed. Per our code, the building would have to conform to our land development regulations and be exempt unless some of those things could be exempt through a city commission action. Floor finishes throughout are damaged and contain asbestos. Those would have to obviously be removed as part of any type of remediation. Lead paint, through the decades when there has been updates done, lead paint was used. That would have to also be removed using proper procedures. Existing ceiling tiles do also contain asbestos. Those were kind of encapsulated by the new tiles replaced underneath them. That would all have to be removed as well. And then multiple openings would have to be addressed as far as the width for ADA accessibility. HVAC system, they are kind of scattered throughout. We need to have a single centralized air HVAC system utilized. Restrooms need upgrades for current ADA compliance. That means that at least two of those would have to increase in size for their square footage. Per the code, small elevator or stair lift would be needed for ADA access to the second floor, and that would have to be included, obviously, with any kind of renovation that's done. Depending on what type of future programming would be used would determine what type of fire separation would be required.

Can I ask you a quick question? When you say stair lift, do you mean that you sit in it?

The chair row, yeah.

And it goes up, which does nothing for someone in a wheelchair. Yeah.

But to adhere to, you know, that's an option. The existing stairwell, the tread requirements don't meet current Florida building code for chapter 10. Our envelope, there is no insulation between anything, floors, walls. So obviously there's an issue with the thermal envelope. The existing sanitary is still cast iron. That would have to all be updated to schedule 40 PBC. And they put in there no fire protection. We don't have, obviously, a sprinkled system, but we do, as of a couple of years ago, have smoke alarms. They're added and they are monitored. So we do have that in the building, but no sprinkler system. All the distribution panels would need to be upgraded to a phase three. There is currently no generator on site. The structural framing connection, it doesn't meet current wind loads per current floor building code. The framing is under designed and does not have capacity to resist the existing gravity and wind loads. And then compliance with current code will require strengthening the foundation floor framing and the CMU wall. What we're currently doing is you guys have already approved the roof trusses and the roof itself. So that is currently underway. And they'll get going with the actual roof truss work in the next two weeks here. Once that's done, the roof work will immediately start after that. And that was based on the fact that no matter what the future of this facility is, we were going to have to address the roof regardless. So we want to at least get that done. And then this is basically to discuss... What you guys feel could be a possibility moving forward. I did want to have William kind of address the zoning letter that was attached as well. So you guys can kind of idea of what can and can't be done as far as this property.

William Waters, Community Sustainability Director. The zoning verification letter was fairly straightforward. The future land use of the property is P. The current zoning is also P. The letter provided what the allowable uses are in the P district, which almost all of them are conditional land uses, which do have to go before the Historic Resource Preservation Board. The process to expand that list of permitted uses could take two paths. One is expanding the permitted uses in the P district itself, which would apply to all P properties, including the one we're in right now, or it could be a. Mr. Waters, Ms. May has her letter.

As does Mr. Parrot.

Would you be a little slower, a little clearer about, And when you say P for everybody, can you just explain what that means?

Less acronyms.

Less acronyms, more fifth grade.

P means public. Thank you. And it's the same thing for future land use as well as the zoning district. And what does that mean though? Public. Public. Well, that's public related. The city hall is public. The library is public. The city hall annex is public. 1900 is public. Most properties that are of use other than public recreation open space that the city owns and utilizes are designated as P. Okay.

Thank you.

So, two avenues to change uses or add additional uses would be one, changing the permitted use table for the public district, which would apply to all properties that are zoned public, or possibly change the future land use and the zoning of the City Hall annex to something like downtown, which has a whole wide variety of uses that would require probably a year-long process to change the future land use and then change the zoning to downtown. There is a significant difference in what is allowed in terms of building lot coverage, impermeable surface lot coverage, height, and those types of things between the public district and the downtown district. Other than that, depending on what use would come about from your decisional direction or from other interests from the public or a private entity, various aspects of the land development regulations might apply. And those conditions would have to be looked at. And then as part of the process through the Historic Resource Preservation Board, we'd have to decide which portions of the conditional land use section would be triggered based on the use that would be selected.

Thank you. Mr. Perry?

Yes, good evening, Mayor. The reason that's on the agenda tonight is this has been a part of the discussion over the last few months with the commission as a consensus item. So what we want to try to do is just give you an overview of what we're currently doing with the building, making those repairs, and at the same time, give you the zoning letter to let you know what can be done with the building. But we understand we probably won't come up with an answer tonight. But what we did want to do is get some direction on how to move forward from the commission and listen to the public and see exactly how we should proceed. We understand we can have additional meetings as we go along, but at least we just want to get this discussion started so we can move forward and try to get something done with this building.

Thank you, Mr. Perry. I'm going to start off. I'm going to take the privilege of starting off. The annex is one of our very few historic buildings. It has long been used by the public. My feeling is it should continue to be used by the public. The Art League is looking for a home. There are various groups that elect to meet. We have a museum on the second floor. It would not bring income, but it would add, you know, there's value more than money. And even though we are facing, you know, we're perhaps facing some serious cuts, this building has to be fixed no matter what we do. We can't just put a roof on it and let it rot. So my very simple mind says, let's figure out how to pay for either grants or bonds or however we can pay for it and get it fixed up so it's a functioning building that our citizens can use as an amenity. That's really where I am about this. As I read that, I said, this is simple. Let's just fix it up. So that's just me. So I'll take any comments from any commissioners. Do we want to hear from the public first? yeah madam clerk do you have comments from the public yes madam mayor i have four and commissioner mcvoy's hand is raised oh mr mcvoy um we're gonna hear from the pub we're gonna hear from the public which one are these vetted that i can not make a mistake so unfinished business yeah unfinished business hey that's new business this is unfinished business rachel are you here on the annex and yes And it's okay.

Okay. Oh, oh, no, no, you're right.

You're right. You're right. Okay. Lori Wittgen.

Turn your mic on. Okay, Lori Whitkin, North Lakeside Drive. Okay, I find myself agreeing with the mayor on this. I've always loved that building. Just architecturally, I think it just says a lot about our city, how we have two wonderful buildings at either end of our downtown. And I think it should stay a public place and be for our government. The museum upstairs is just wonderful. I remember the museum when I came and the one that was later created. And it's just what they did is magnificent. I think they've really captured a lot about our town. And I'm sorry it's not open or wasn't open even more hours. But I would really like to see that if we wanted people to come here. That's something people at the museum, I think people would like to go to. And architecturally, I just think we need to protect it. I think the city should do it. And I like the idea of having city offices in it. I used to like to go down there if I had to pay a utility bill. Used to be able to get a parking decal without going crazy on your phone. So it'd be nice to bring that back. But I just think I'm sort of amazed at how much needs to be done. Sorry, you're going? Yeah, well, I guess, you know, it's time to do it all. But I mean, if we can afford it and I think we should find the money and do it and keep it for also because all these offices we're paying, we shouldn't be paying rent for our department someplace else. If we own a building that doesn't make sense financially. So if you look at what we don't have to pay to other landlords, and I think that we should keep it from our own, and I don't think we should be renting it out for commercial purposes. I mean, something like the Art League to give them a space, that I can see, I think that would be a good idea. But it should be for those sorts of organizations and not for commercial purposes. Thank you very much. Thank you. Todd Townsend.

Hi, Todd Townsend, 502 South J Street. My friend here that just spoke, she pretty much said what I wanted to say. Aside from the fact that I think it's bizarre, I think it's crazy, I think nobody in this room would let the roof on their house sit open and naked like that for all these years with all that water running in there. We're really far late dealing with this, and it should have been dealt with a long time ago. And You know, it's like it just adds up to a new confidence vote up here because of that. Does anybody let their house be wide open to the elements with all the rain that we have every year? Yet this important building that you say, oh, it's an important building, but so what? You know, who cares? Just like what happened with Donna the other day. We love Donna. We love Donna. We're going to vote for Donna. No. Thank you. Good night.

Thank you. Ramsden-McLeod. Followed by Rachel Shapiro.

Ramsden-McLeod, 24 South C Street. I'm in favor of keeping this building and I support some of your comments, Mayor. I have a different idea of how we could approach Perhaps a way to cut down on some of the expenses. We have employees in our city. We have electricians. We have plumbers. We have painters. We have carpenters. Why can't we prep that building to the point where then we can look at something coming in and converting it into office space for our own employees? You know, we have a union for plumbers. We have a union for electricians. We have the HVAC school at the college. I think if we partner with those entities, we can come up with some kind of collaborative effort and do a lot of this repair work on our building or prep it for the final remodeling of it ourselves. Instead of automatically, you know, going out, having to look at a bid for over $8 million to do all this work. What can we use our own employees for to make a new home for other employees and other departments? I mean, that's how we should be looking at it. It is a historical structure in our city. It is part of the roots of our city. And as a body up here, you have responsibility to the residents, not only to improve and help make our environment safe and happy, but to preserve one of the few remaining historic cities in Southeast Florida. And I think if we can do some collaborative effort, we can come up with some kind of a concept here that if we can make it go and play, we're supporting our education system. We're supporting new employment for individuals in the area. We're also creating skilled employees that can go out into the marketplace and get hired faster than somebody who just came out of school. those unions and those teachers that are overseeing the students, they can assume some of the liability for the work and the skills of the very individuals they're training to become professionals in those skilled crafts. So I think there's a way that we can look at something a little innovative, a little off the wall, But isn't that what our city's about? We don't have to be just artistic. We don't just have to be in that venue of that eccentricity. We can also apply that same standard to brick and mortar, nuts and bolts kinds of actions that you have to take. And I think it's time we start looking at things like that instead of let's put it out for bid and throw up our hands and whatever they tell us, that's what we're going to pay. Let's start being more initiative ourselves. Thank you.

Rachel Shapiro.

Hi there, Rachel Shapiro, 506 North E Street. I agree it should remain public. I agree with Ramsey that we might want to start thinking about some more innovative ideas. And I'm actually going to float an idea before you that includes the annex that needs way more time and conversation than three minutes. I acknowledge that anything that's suggested takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of resources. Anything that I bring before the commission, I'm willing to back up with work and resources. So what I think is that Moving forward, Lake Worth Beach should work towards becoming a Blue Zone, a certified Blue Zone. This is something that's been acknowledged throughout the world as a desirable characteristic for longevity. Naples, Florida already pursued Blue Zone certification. to numerous economic benefits. Miami Beach is currently pursuing Blue Zone certification. And I think that Lake Worth Beach, with our seven square miles and all of the amazing qualities of this town, has a really real opportunity. It would satisfy both demands that we currently have on the table, development, move forward with the future, And let's preserve the quality of life that most of us moved here for. Blue Zone certification speaks to both of those. So I think that the City Hall Annex should be turned into a urban agriculture demonstration center as part of a broader city initiative to pursue Blue Zone certification. Thank you.

Nancy Udell, followed by Linda Brown. No, Linda. Yeah, Brown. Brower. Brower. Okay, thank you. Followed by Mr. Bryant, followed by Diane Brown.

Hi, Nancy Udell, 1131 North Palmway. I think there's a lot of interesting ideas that have been brought forward. I'm really more interested in where the money comes from to rehab this. It's a historic building. It's obviously in disastrous condition based on what I've seen from the report. I think our historic department should be involved in getting grants or doing something to bring something to the table here to try to fix this building, rather than spending all their time micromanaging our choices of windows, doors, and roofs. What is the historic department doing about this building? Isn't that like a primary reason for their existence? Yeah. Also, one of my big issues, the CRA, we write a check to them for $7 million. And what are they bringing to the table? They've said, oh, we can't do that because it's a government building. But if it's not a government building, if it's a public building, perhaps there's some creative way to get some of that $7 million back and have them chip in. I think we have to really think about the resources that we have and where the money's coming from rather than just picking up the tab. Thank you.

Thank you.

Linda? Hi.

Followed by Mr. Bryant.

Good evening. My good evening. My favorite topic. Good evening. I would ask the commission to carefully consider your spending priorities.

Ms. Brown, your name and address, please, just for the record.

Oh, I'm sorry. Linda Brower, 1100 South Lakeside Drive, Lake Worth Beach, Florida, South Palm Park. I would ask the commission to carefully consider your spending priorities while improving city buildings may be desirable. It should not take precedence over repairing the basic infrastructure that residents and businesses depend on every day. Our water and sewer systems are already under tremendous strain. Many of us have experienced recurring problems, which you know, because the existing infrastructure is simply not adequate and the city is well aware of this. The city continues to approve additional homes, apartments, and businesses that are connected to the same aging and undersized sewer lines. Every new connection places new demand, more demand on a system that is already failing. The people who are Paying for it today, residents should not have to worry about sewer backup, sewer smells, plumbing problems, or whether they can use their toilets or washing machines after a heavy rain because the city's infrastructure has not kept pace with growth. Before investing significant taxpayer dollars in renovating or beautifying city facilities, I believe the commission has a responsibility to ensure that the essential services beneath our streets are reliable and sufficient for both current residents and future growth. Infrastructure is not glamorous, but is the foundation of a functioning city. I urge you to make repairing and expanding our water and sewer systems the highest priority before taking on projects that, while worthwhile, are not critical to the health, safety, and quality of life of the people you represent. A city can postpone cosmetic improvements, but it cannot afford to postpone the infrastructure that protects public health and serves every home and business every single day. I also wanted to thank Commissioner Anthony here. On the weekend, I came home from a trip. I had some family staying with me. They left early because the sewer smell was so bad in my place. And Anthony came out on a Sunday and came over to experience what we experience in our home and in our little cottage. So thank you for listening.

Thank you. Followed by his Brown.

Leonard Bryant 402 South L Street. I was kind of shocked that there's that big a list to go through for that building, especially since it really hasn't had any damage from any storm for forever. besides maybe the roof, which was probably already ready to be replaced anyway. And then, um, the fact that it has a handicap ramp must have a handicap bathroom on the first floor for all those years, all those years, we were disobeying the law then by having people go in there and pay their electric bills, I guess, and bringing their kids in there and the art league being in there with handicapped people and everything else. So, but, um, Um, but I, I was, um, interesting to hear Rachel talk about that avenue of, um, trying to repair it. And also the city's hat, the city has carpenters and electricians and all the people will help to get the ball rolling. And so far the ball hadn't been rolling at all. Um, and the fact that, um, it's not up to code, um, I don't quite understand why it needs to be up to code if it's a historic building. Never was up to code for the last 30 years we used it. So all of a sudden now it needs to be up to code. And to say those walls are not wind resistant enough is just a bunch of BS because that building is pretty solid structurally. And anyway, I just hope that we can... I'm with Betty on beg, borrow, or steal and repair the building.

Thank you. Ms. Brown?

Diane? I was being formal. See where it got me?

Hi, I'm Diane Brown. I live at 905 North Lakeside Drive. I also think the building should be kept public. It also had a lovely visitor center there that I volunteered at that lots of people used, as well as a museum and a used bookstore, which brought revenue into the library. I think it really needs to stay public. I don't know where to find the money, but...

fixing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Miss Finch, Miss Fisher.

Peggy Fisher, 508 North A Street. I agree the building should stay public. My concern is that we moved employees out of that building three years, maybe more than that ago, and nothing was done expeditiously to do an assessment of that building. Here we are. We've let it sit for three years. And yes, it's 100 years old, but it has decayed more. And I think what the city needs is to, we have lots of master plans. We need a master plan for the maintenance of city-owned buildings. We don't seem to have that. It's not something that if it's been as it is out of code compliance with building code for 30 years, I don't know if that's correct or not. That's not acceptable. The city should be putting themselves to the same standards that we put residents. And if we want to maintain these historic buildings, we need to take care of them. And I won't go back to the casino where it was a total rebuild, but through this hand and this hand, it wasn't. we need to do everything we can. And I think we do need to move employees back in there and not pay put them in buildings that we pay rent for. I have no problem with the museum being on the second floor. I think if the Art League is going to go in the building into a space they were previously or have been paying rent, I think a minimal rent should be paid because that's what they were incurring before. I know there's been discussion about putting a visitor center at the relocated 17 South M building, so rather than in the annex building but i do think it should be stay open i think it should be used to cut down on expenses that the city can prevent by utilizing the spaces or assets for our employees and also to serve the public thank you thank you mr waters would you correct me if i'm wrong

The reason going up to 80 it's been brought out why ad now is because the renovations because more than 50% of the building will trigger that.

PB Sarah Silverman, I know we have public comments from the little dicey on the building code in Florida does require that if you do any kind of substantial work that Ada in some fashion be addressed. PB Sarah Silverman, Since there has not been any substantial work done to because i'm sitting on annex I don't believe that was triggered whether we were out of. PB Sarah Silverman, Against the law or anything I mean it was open to the public, I think we were fortunate because many of you may remember the person who was going around downtown going to all the restaurants. and claiming ADA violations. Fortunately, that person did not go into City Hall Annex. But that is one of the major deficiencies of that building is ADA compliance. And just because it's historic, it doesn't have to meet the letter of a law, but it has to meet the intent of a law.

Thank you. Madam Clerk, I believe you have some public comments to read. Oh, Mr. Mayor, we're going to do it yourself when we're done with public comments. Sorry. Go ahead, Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Judy Reed, 406 Monterey Square, Boynton Beach. The Historical Society of Lake Worth understands that changes will be necessary to the museum regardless of the future determined for the annex. We are asking that we be included in determining what elements of the museum are essential to maintain in order to preserve, protect, and display the history of the city. We have ideas to present that would allow large parts of the museum to be converted to digital and video and require significantly less space to accomplish the goal. Richard Meyer, 1767, 15th Avenue North. Just to let you know, the two printouts that are on the dais came from Mr. Mahler, and I printed them out since he couldn't be there this evening. He writes, I'd like to suggest that we reimagine the Annex not as office space, but as a year-round destination that strengthens our downtown and celebrates Lake Worth Beach's unique identity. Imagine the Annex serving as a much-needed community gathering place with rotating art exhibits, museum-style programming, highlighting Jewel and our pioneers, cultural events, educational workshops, and flexible event space. It would create another reason for both residents and visitors to come downtown throughout the year, not just during peak season. By leveraging our history and culture, we give visitors a second chance to discover or rediscover and improve Lake Worth Beach while supporting local restaurants, hotels, and businesses beyond the beach. The building also has the potential to better fill a possible gap left by the casino ballrooms, by accommodating larger community events, weddings, and private functions. With space for a bridal suite, catering kitchen, onsite vendor parking, and a straight shot to the beach for ceremonies, it could become a unique venue unlike anything else in our area while providing the city with revenues in the hundreds of thousands annually. Possibly more if the Lake Pavilion in West Palm Beach were to disappear as it is proposed in the Downtown Waterfront Redevelopment Plan. Communities like Delray Beach and Old School Square, I'm sorry, communities like Delray Beach with Old School Square and Boynton Beach with its Arts and Cultural Center have demonstrated how historical cultural destinations can become economic engines and community gathering places. I believe the Annex has the potential to do the same for Lake Worth Beach. In quick research, it looks like up to $9 million could be available through grants and other funding programs for such a proposal. Let's seize this opportunity to create a destination that honors our past while investing in our future. Thank you. Laura Lovetti's 1030 North Lakeside Drive. When I look at the annex, I don't see office space. I see a public market. I think of Chelsea Market in New York City. Chelsea Market transformed an old building into a place filled with local restaurants, artists, artisans, and small businesses. It became a destination that revitalized the surrounding neighborhood, brought people together, and helped drive the local economy. The annex is one of our city's most valuable public assets. We have the building. Let's have the courage to think differently. What use of this building creates the most life for Lake Worth Beach? If the answer isn't obvious, let's open the property to a competitive process and see what ideas come forward. Thank you. And the last comment on this item is from Robert Waples, 825 Wright Drive. This building and park is a cultural center for almost all things Lake Worth Beach that we celebrate. While I see the city is renting space for offices, this building needs to be brought back up to standards and move any city department that is in rent spaces to go back into this building. There is also enough space for community nonprofits to have meetings such as NAPC and house the Department of Recreation or special events that coincide with the park itself. Whatever the price tag is to bring it up to snuff, I am sure there are grants out there for a historical building to be made whole. There is space to lease out for art galleries, historical society, and the such. What if the city hall itself had a major issue? Where would you go during repairs? Just a few thoughts. That's the last comment for the sign of Madam Mayor.

Thank you, ma'am. Mr. McVoy had his hand up. So begin with him. Mr. McVoy. Thank you.

I have to say I really enjoyed Ramsey McCloud's remarks on let's be a little innovative about how we do some of the work I remember that at one point we had, I believe it was with the high school that worked on the building that was near the roundabout as a teaching situation. I don't know if the college, the college I believe does HVAC things. So I really liked that idea of being creative, of having folks work under license of either some city employees or maybe a hired contractor that supervises. And I agree with the mayor, and a lot of the speakers that this should be a public building. It is definitely a historic building. It's very centrally located. The fact that it's in the cultural plaza, I think is quite significant. I hear the concern about paying rent and that that would be an argument for putting office spaces in the building. I wouldn't say that I'm dead set against that, but I think that's a less optimal use than at least a fairly large portion of it being for really public uses, things that bring people into the downtown. I personally would like to see some version of the museum stay there. Visitor center seems to me it makes more sense there than next to a parking garage, but that's just me. I could see perhaps maybe it would make sense to move the museum onto the first floor and the visitor center, certainly on the first floor. And maybe if we have extra space, office space for the city employees on the second floor, that might make some sense. And the idea of a gathering place, as Richard Mayer suggested, maybe a venue that's tied to events at the beach makes a lot of sense to me too. I do agree that I know that one of the visits I made to Tallahassee, we talked at length with, and I can't remember the name of the Bureau, but it was part of state government and they did have half million, at that time, half million dollar grants to help with historic renovations. Whether that funding still exists, I have no idea, but I totally agree that we should pursue grant options as much as possible, as well as the innovative approach to doing it. I share Mr. Bryant's skepticism. That's a pretty solid building, if I remember right. It's about 100 years old, which would mean that it probably went through at least the 1928 hurricane and possibly the 26th one as well. Now, whether it took any hits, that I don't remember. reading about one way or the other, but it's certainly been through the 1947 hurricane, which was a big one, and a number of others. So I would hope that we could be creative about meeting the intent of the law on the EDA, maybe not going crazy on all of the details. I also, depending on how much space, I'm not opposed to the idea of the Art League being in there. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Malega.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. So when I see this building, it reminds me of the Detroit train station. And for any of you who know anything about Detroit, the Detroit train station sat derelict for 30 years. And it had great movies that helped blow it up and do some damage to it along the way. But after 30 years, it has now been brought back to life and it has revitalized that area of Detroit like nobody ever thought would happen. I had the pleasure of experiencing it myself in December. It's free to go through. They preserve the history. but also brought it up to today's standards. And it was like a walk back in time. I took lots of pictures and posted it, actually, I think on my commissioner's page back then. And one thing that I loved is that it activated not only the neighborhood, but the station itself. And they had a live DJ there and they have pop-up bars and they had furniture and they had games and people were just hanging out and having community like you see in Europe. And I was just taken back that this was happening in Detroit and that nobody had to pay to walk through the doors. And if you wanted to have something to drink, you could. They had a gift shop where you could buy stuff that paid tribute to the history of Detroit and Central Station. But that's what I see this building being. And preserving this history is important to me. However, we have to activate that area of our downtown and we have to make it to where, I mean, I love office spaces, but that building should be so much more than an office space. I'm thinking community cultural kitchen. I'm thinking live arts. I'm thinking music. I'm thinking an experience because we need more destination locations in this city. That's the truth. We need more than WMOTA and the Benziton and the Gulfstream one day to bring people to Lake Worth Beach. But wouldn't it be cool if people jumped on the bright line of the tri-rail to come experience that cultural awareness center or whatever we want to call it? And there's tons of money out there, but we know that that money doesn't always come to fruition. We've been on the chopping block many times. So we can't depend on grants, but we can depend on what the community wants. And I think that this is a bigger conversation, something that obviously can't be made a decision today. I would like to see another. I don't know how many planned community outreach meetings we have. But to me, I would love to see some some some vision boards put up and say, let's let's have the community vote. I think that, yes, we are spending money right now on some rental properties for our staff. But again, I don't believe that that's the best use. I see Beaster Lights and live music being performed in the outside culture. I mean, I really see that being a place where we can just take our lawn chair and pop up your lawn chair and enjoy the evening, right? I think that we're really missing that downtown. If you don't want to go to one of the many restaurants and drop $100, but you just want to go hang out downtown, what a great place that would be. What a great space. And I think that we have a great staff here that could help us bring some ideas to fruition and just have the have a community vote on it. I think this is an important this is 100 plus years old. I want to see it 100 years later for the future generations. I'm not in favor of going out and selling it or triple peeing it. I would love to partner with, like you said, there are agencies out there that may want to partner with us if they need a home. But I think that it needs to be bigger and better than it was previously. And thank you to Miss Peggy Fisher. I am the one who plugged putting the visitor center at the parking garage, because if people are coming here to visit and they park their car, we're better off placed to park your car and walk outside and go. Hi, where is A, B, and C? Instead of just walking down the street and have to find the visitor center. So I think that there could be a lot more activated good uses of this building, and I will support a lot of community outreach and community opinion. I am not in favor of any office spaces for our employees at this time. Thank you.

Let's move down the road. District 3. Okay.

Excuse me. I just wanted to ask staff some of the questions that were asked by the residents when they were speaking. If that's okay. The first question was, it was inferred that the roof is just wide open to the elements. Is that true?

Not going to know what you mean. We've had repairs done over the years. And then when it got to the point where that was no longer feasible is when we brought that forward. But yeah, there has been tile missing floor that's blown off.

We've had to tarp it in some spots.

Yeah, we've kind of, I'm sorry, can you hear better now? Okay, sorry about that. Yeah, so over the years, just like with anything else, we've had repairs that haven't been done. They've been done by internal staff. We've had multiple roof leaks that we've repaired. When we found out about them, tiles blown off from the place. We've had a tarp in some areas before. It's had to be tented. So we're kind of just taking care of it as we move along and figure out what we're going to do with it.

So there's no gaping hole.

Not that I'm aware of. Anytime we've had any kind of leak, it's been addressed. Okay.

So patch it. I mean, obviously not a whole roof redo, but you're patching it and you're making sure that we are at least getting it to the point where it's not pouring water. Right. I understand that. I just wanted to clarify that there wasn't a giant hole in the roof. The second thing was a question, what is the Historic Department doing? So does the Historic Department have anything to do with making plans on future buildings, which I think is kind of a cool idea, but could you just address their role in something like this?

Well, keep in mind, we only had two staff, and we've only had one staff for more than six months. And so they do provide input. They've been very active with both WMOTA and the Gulfstream project, as well as the parking garage, which they're now coming to a point where they can get a building permit. But even though... More than one third of the city is in a historic district. And most building permits in the historic districts go before staff or certificate of appropriateness. So they have a pretty heavy workload. They have helped when we had in the past, a grants person to do a certificate, I mean, a certificate of government grant or a grant in aid. There are state grants in aid, that's a half a million dollar one that Commissioner McVoy mentioned. I'm a little bit familiar with those. That does have to stay for a public purpose. The historic staff could provide support, but they are not grants people in this terms of writing a grant or a grant.

OK. And then the other question was, why does it have to be up to code?

Well, there's more than that. As Jamie mentioned, it's in a level three. There are three types of alterations under the building code. There's level one, where you're just kind of doing minor things. Level two, you might rearrange a couple of rooms. The level three is when you do a substantial rehab. And the other involves, under two auspices, either 50% of the space of the building or more. Or under FEMA, it's actually expenditure of more than half of what the actual structure is worth. What is the structure worth? For unemployment, it may be a million dollars. It's not very high, sadly. But it's not in a flood zone. So that part of it doesn't... So it doesn't have to go up the extra 10 feet? No. It's actually... No, because it already meets... I think in that area, we're pretty high. So it's actually higher than what Ramona's new building will be. Okay. But again, anytime you spend money in order to repair a building, whether it's stored or not, you do have to spend a certain percentage on it and bringing it up to ADA compliance as best you can. Like I said, it could be the intent versus the letter of the law. They usually want the ADA access visible to the public. They enter the same way everybody else enters. There are some modifications that can be, and I'm more familiar with the Providence County Courthouse because I was involved in that project. We had their double railings on the stairs. So we had like the historic railing and then the ADA compliant railing on top of it.

Those sound kind of cosmetic, though. I'm talking more along the lines of where it was the wind load and other things that were mentioned.

Well, that will be triggered, and how you meet it, it could be a variety of ways. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to replace all the windows and make an impact. You can put up a shutter system, like what was on this building and that building for many years. I think a lot of them didn't.

They have shutters.

City Hall annexes didn't replace everything.

The fabric shutters.

So that, yes, we do have to meet that. And depending on if you change the occupancy, which also triggers having to bring it up to code. It was originally a school, a framed vernacular school that had a three-story tower. It has been damaged by hurricanes four times. It was redone in the mid-20s after the major hurricane, late 20s, and looks like it does now, but I think it was a bit bigger originally, and then it was damaged again. I believe the whole thing was two stories originally, and there were eight classroom sources. As you look at it now, it might just be six. And then we've had the drive-in teller kind of thing tacked on the east side, which probably should come off. But I don't see that being a problem in terms of making that an ADA-compliant entrance because it's at grade, whereas the other ones aren't. They're a problem. variety of ways to meet the intent of the code versus the letter of the code but we if we spent the kind of the money we're talking about we would have to do a lot of upgrades especially electrical mechanical and plumbing wise right that's what it sounds like but that stuff hasn't been done and there's but there's it sounds to me like also there's no getting away from it i mean what happens to this building this has to happen

Right. And I did want to address the one of the comments about ADA or not being compliant for so long. All of the code, you know, it gets updated every now and then. So we're going off of the you'd have to go off the latest building code. So we don't conform to the latest code, which doesn't mean that we didn't for previous codes from decades ago. Obviously, as they update everything now, more space is required and more square footage for different things. So we would have to come in compliance with that. So it's not that we weren't compliant. It's just if we do a renovation, which triggers this level three. It was compliant at the time. It was compliant at the time. So it's not that we weren't following. Grandfather didn't.

I see what you're saying. OK. And I mean, I'm listening to all the ideas and I don't disagree with them at all. I do think it should be a public building. I'm just terrified about how expensive that would be to do it. I don't with especially with what could be coming in November. And I just don't see how we pay for it. But I don't want. Our job up here, though, is to listen to what the people want and make it happen. So that's going to be interesting. I hear from my fellow commissioners of kind of a dual-purpose event space type thing. I'd like to hear more about that. I mean, I think that... I just looked at the Detroit train station and it's amazing. It would be interesting to see how they funded that.

The Ford family took it over and they started fundraising and everybody from the Firestone family to locals and they raised money for years to renovate it. Okay. So that was a community.

It's not like there's no people with money here.

No, no. It was a community engagement. It really engaged the community. They had fundraisers and they spent years raising the funds that they needed to do it the right way.

To do it the right way. Okay. I mean, and I'm open to all of these ideas. I just don't know how we pay for them.

Yeah, I saw all of those.

And if you look at the list of grants, it's 500 here, 200 here, which would be awesome, but we don't have a grant writer. So where we're starting here, in my mind, is starting with We need a grant writer. You know, we need to be able to start basic if we're going to be able to do this. This is not going to be something where we're going to pull 10 million dollars out of our pocket and do it tomorrow. So I like the idea of getting the community input. I like the idea of getting the community talking about it, conversing about it, talking about different ways to fund it, because this is not something that I mean, if. If 5 people up here could have figured this out, it would have happened before this. So I think that the, the point of this conversation tonight, as Mr said, was to start the conversation. But by no means end it, if this is the beginning of the conversation, because it does need to. We are stewards of that building and we need to respect its history. We need to respect its. Purpose, but we also need to look at it in terms of being. financially responsible for the citizens' money as well. So I think that the clear message we're getting is keep it public. The clear message we're getting is to be innovative, to figure out ways that part of it can support itself, part of it can support other facets of the history of Lake Worth Beach. And I think we're on the right track and it's certainly not gonna be solved this evening. I do just have one more question. based on something that was brought up and is it feasible to use high school slash college programming for labor?

That is definitely an HR question. I know we do have internship programs that HR has been doing, but as far as how that would work, I am not sure. That would definitely be something for HR.

I have a little history on that one building. It was the oldest building in downtown. It was moved to the circle. This is the 90s. There was a team at the time at the high school. I forget their names, which I'm sad about, who were dynamite. They were the shop teachers. And they had a whole program going. It was remarkable. One of them died. And the other one transferred. And the whole thing just fell apart. It was really based on their energy. So the whole project fell apart. But it was really... I mean, I don't know what the program was like now, but they did have, I mean, they were going to have kids with hammers and chainsaws and stuff. So that's a little hint from there.

And Mayor, I did want to mention, we didn't say it before, but it seems like this is where it's going anyway, but it would be something, you know, we would team up with Leisure and have at least two to three public charrettes. Obviously, we would need... direction from you guys to do that. We don't just kind of do that at the blue and just set it up on our own. But that's part of this whole conversation.

And I think the conversation can start. I do think that we may be a little bit premature just because of the unknowns with the funding, with the November amendment. I mean, I just want to be, I mean, it's kind of blunt about it. If we don't have that the tax income just coming for services. And we need to look at our budget in general. I mean, are there places we can cut? Are there things that we can find? Is there money we can put towards this? I think that we need to be very judicious in every single penny we spend. So I think that it's a great conversation to have and to begin i don't know that we're ready to have a show right next week that's my opinion i think no again we just wanted to kind of start these things take time right um so instead of waiting you know even longer because that's it's been sitting for a while no i mean if you do the roof and the structures once the roof is done then it's not going to be deteriorating at the rate that it is is that is that the idea

Absolutely, yes. The AC's on.

The AC's on. So there's relative protection for the items in the museum? They're all covered up.

That's correct.

Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. Mr. Segrich.

Thank you. I guess first I'll talk about just kind of vision and things that we've heard. I would agree with Commissioner Malega in terms of the use of the space. For me, it being the center of our downtown, it's kind of the heart of our downtown right now. Right now it's dead space. We've got a lawn that's fenced off. We've got a building we can't get into. And people look at it and go, what the heck's going on there, right? I mean, since I moved here, I remember the hurricane fabric being up for months on end, blue tarp on it, missing shingles and stuff, just generally being in a state of disrepair. And I firmly believe that has to end, right? But the space, it should be active. It should be somewhere where we had some very innovative ideas come out from the public. I think we need more. But for me, it kind of needs to be a space where you think of the Faneuil Halls of the world or the train station where... people come they want to walk through the bottom halls and maybe there's a museum on the top maybe it's art or maybe it's a you know a rotating thing right so you want to come back and back and back and back again right when you have family in town or friends in town you go there and you can grab a quick bite a coffee or go see the museum upstairs, whatever exhibits going through it. What they did with the old courthouse in Palm Beach is really nice. All the different historic exhibits that you get to go through there and just how they preserved it. I'm in favor of activated public use. I think that does need to incorporate some sort of retail function in the essence of a cafe or a reason for somebody to go sit there for lunch and be in and out of that building. to keep it more active. I'm in 100% agreement that we need to conduct charrettes and meetings with the public and get people's buy-in and get more ideas on it. I struggled really long and hard trying to think of things for this and doing research because For me, even that is a little bit premature, given the state on how we run projects in this city. We don't have a project management office. We don't have a grant writer. We don't even have the grant writer that I can find as a job application on our website. I looked for some of the other key positions. I couldn't find those. So we're hurting for staff to make these kinds of things happen. This can't just be, oh, this is what we want. Let's make it happen. It takes real staff time. And to Mr. Waters' point, we've got two people in our historic department. how are they possibly going to help with roughly two-thirds of the building permits that go through, have to get certificate of appropriateness, and we all know that that's a big delay. So I think also part of this conversation needs to be a wake-up call that we have to get our ducks in a row in order to be able to tackle something like this. This is a large project. People looked at the price and have sticker shock. I think when we get in there and we touch those walls, it's going to get a lot more expensive. I did professional restoration, mold, asbestos, and so on, lead paint. You're talking a complete gut of this building. And so when we talk about ideas for the building, unfortunately to me, I don't think you can preserve many of the internal historic architectural features or a cut up of it. It might be the case where every wall has to go because of the state of it. And even though we've made repairs over the years and so on, Once mold is behind a wall, it doesn't stop because the rain stops. It actually creates its own environment. And for as long as that sat with nobody in there and no airflow and everything, it's going to be bad. And I want to be a realist about that. The flip side of that is we kind of have a clean slate. We have a shell, is how I envision it. And the community and us, we can work together to make whatever that is, whatever we want it moving forward. Before we tackle or add yet another project to the list, we've got the 1900 project going on. We're still waiting on updates on that. We've got a pool sitting derelict at our beach and no CO for the beach casino building for how many years? And so it's not a happy message to say, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we think we can add this one more. Because we don't have the fundamental team in place to make these happen. And I think that needs to be a focus, is to get that team in place so that we can execute on that, so we can bring stuff like this to life for the public. Because it's a shame. It's an embarrassment. It's a shame. We need to do better. All of the ideas that I heard from residents, all great ideas. I don't know the legalities or whether or not we would be able to utilize city staff to take care of it simply because of the environmental state of the building. It would put the city at extreme legal risk. You don't know what you don't know when you go into some of these buildings. I had a work crew lift up floorboards. One of the persons almost died within 20 minutes. They weren't wearing their PPE. They pulled it up. Some unknown biologic was living under there. Almost died within 20 minutes. Complete respiratory failure. That can happen. You got to wear your PPE, right? But our city, our staff is not geared up for that. There are companies that specialize in it. And unfortunately, they are extraordinarily expensive. But so are the regulations from OSHA and the Environmental Protection Agency. This is not stuff to fool around. I like the idea of grant funding. I also like the idea of fundraising. When people were talking, I wrote down the save the clock tower from Back to the Future. I got a chuckle. But we do need that as well. If this place is going to be the home of the historic society or the home of a nonprofit organization, We need to work hand in hand with them to see if we can get grants or benefactors or somebody naming rights or things like that where we're not giving up ownership of anything. But, you know, how many billionaires do we have in Palm Beach County now?

Thirteen.

Thirteen. You know, I know for a fact several of them visit Lake Worth Beach. and they, they sit in our downtown and you'd never know who they were when you walk by them, but they've been here and so on. There, there are people who love the city and maybe we can get that kind of assistance as, as well. So, you know, I want to tackle this project. I think it's fundamentally premature from a staffing standpoint and the readiness of the city. And I want that to be our first step priority as well as in parallel. Let's start getting more community feedback. And then last piece is. we need to preserve our buildings. Like I said, at 1900, when I was parked in the parking lot trying to get my permit, there was a tree growing out of the roof. Three foot.

It's a Swedish tree.

Yeah.

We can joke about it, but that's stuff we can fix, that we can keep our buildings from deteriorating. We're about to spend an awful lot of money on this thing's roof. Those gutters better be clean and stuff like that. Otherwise, we're just throwing money away. The last piece to touch on about the facilities, because a number of people brought it up, Why are we paying rent when we have city buildings? And that's been a big kind of issue for me. Personally, I don't think we should be renting out a single city building for any less than we're having to pay to house employees elsewhere. And we don't have any policy on that. And tonight's probably not the right night to talk about it. But we need to think of that as well, proper utilization of our buildings and assets. But I want to see this be a focal point. I want it to be public. I want it to be open. I want us to have our lawn open. in the cultural plaza for people to be able to utilize and so on. And I know, Mr. Brown, you had some ideas with turf there that would be more resilient than what we have so that we could leave it open. So, you know, maybe that's also a small win that we could do in the meantime. Let's get that public square open so that people can be utilizing it.

Thank you. I just have a couple, I didn't speak after the presentation. Most of the comments point out the fact that we need a city hall so badly. And I'm hoping that at some point in the future, the property that we have over there with a fire and police can become a city hall so that we don't have to rent out space. I agree with Ms. Malega that contrary to the, it's not for offices. it's for people to come and enjoy it and use that as, and I'm very strong about that. Our Art League originally was housed in the library and somehow at some point, I'm sure Mr. Lockwood would know or the Art League would know, they sort of got kicked out of it. So I'd like to, and we talk about ourselves as an art city and here we have really talented artists. They have openings, it's a very active place. People come and go to their exhibits. So that's something I would like to have tucked away. I have a couple of questions. There are contract, not putting the cart before the horse, but there are contract grant writers. And I'm purchasing. I don't know if we have the ability to hire. We had an employee that did it. But could the city contract with a private grant writer to pursue grants? And I know it's putting the cart before the horse. It's just a question. Mr. Perry has his light on.

Yes, Madam Mayor. Just want to say, just in case Commission forgot, the previous grant writer, so along with the organization, it was a part-time position. At the budget meeting a couple of weeks ago, we requested that we combine two positions to make a full-time grant writer. So it's not that we're not trying to get one, but that's probably why you hadn't found it on there. But if you recall, a couple of weeks ago at the budget meeting, we requested a full-time position with that.

And we approved it. Yes, correct. Starting in October? Correct. So, okay. And we funded it. That's correct. Again, a lot of dependence.

A lot of dependence on November until we know. I don't want to do it, but I can. If that's the direction of the commission, we can do that.

Do we have the money now to start it?

We're just doing it the proper way. That's A. B, yes, there are companies out there that you can pay if you want them assisting with going out and soliciting grants for years.

And I know there are some that really specifically do government work and do artwork. Correct. So that's something. So I know that we're talking, you know, it's premature and we have a lot going on. We have a lot going on, but we, I don't want to, I haven't often frustrated about, we have so much going on. We can't do one more thing. Concept. I think the citizens are ripe to have their voices heard about this. And I also know after five and a half years up on this dais, government works at a glacial pace. So even if we start, you know, in the next month or couple months, having some, you know, a survey, having, you know, putting it out into the public that this is something that we're considering, at least then we have an idea about how we should use that building. And then maybe come up with a plan Like, look at the blueprint and go, okay, we want the R League here. That'd be good, you know, to come up with some sort of plan. Because I don't think you can go for a grant if you don't have some sort of plan. So I think that, you know, to start working on this for us to do it. So come up with a plan after the input from the citizens and from all of us. And then hopefully by that time we'd have a grant writer on skit and have them go for the grants. To me, that seems, I don't want to just say, well, it's premature, so let's not do it. I would like to have, because one of the things about, like you talked about a community project, is the excitement, is the energy that comes from it. So I would like, I mean, I still want to have a clock at the beach for those of us that remember the clock at the beach. But let's get the citizens involved. Let's let them know this is happening, that we're considering it, and get the energy for it. Because it might be, let's have a bake sale. But the more energy we can get behind it, I think it's time for the citizens to be, this is a real good project for input. This is like, we're going to, this is like home. So I would like to see us not put it off to start.

Commissioner Seigert, do you have any of those billionaires' phone numbers, like in your

Oh, please, it is. It's hard. They think it's really tacky when you ask them for money at a dinner party. I've been tempted. No, no, you wouldn't. No, you wouldn't. I've been there. It's not good. So do we have consensus that it will remain a public building? Let's start there. Okay?

Consent.

Okay. Mr. McVoy? He's got a thumbs up. Okay, thank you. All right, so that's step one. Thank you, everyone. I'm so glad that that worked out that way. And then what about, how do you feel about starting, even if it's in the next couple of months, starting the, you know, starting the charrette, I hate the word charrette, starting the public hearings to have a committee outreach, thank you, to actually have folks come in and talk about what,

and there will be competing ideas probably all of them good ones i think we should do it at the cultural plaza and i i mean honestly like put up a big tent and do it there so people can envision instead of having it here at city hall or having it encompass i think we should have it on the grounds there or we could do the library um i think pitch those big white tents wait till it's you know closer to season when it's nice out and make an event out of it and really get people excited about activating that space

However we do it, I would like to see, this is a good jumping off point for this. Mr. McVoy, consent on the public hearings to get started?

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, but I'm not hearing from the other, from the female commissioners. Well, I'm about to ask.

I was just going to ask Vice Mayor May.

Yeah, I definitely want to hear from the citizens. Okay. But when we say that it's public, that doesn't mean that we're not willing to discuss some sort of, because you said no triple P. I get that.

I don't want to put out for a triple P. Like naming rights or partnering with.

Right. So we're not saying no to private.

Involvement?

Involvement.

I would say no. If it's the right person.

Okay.

Because I'm just trying to figure out a way to pay for it. But I'm sure a chef comes in or wants to, like you said, naming rights. I'm like, everybody does that.

Right. But it gets tricky with who the person is and do we want to put their name on our building? And some people say yay and some people say nay. So it's going to be, people are going to have to be patient and open-minded and listen and they may not like an idea at first. And, you know, it's just, I'm looking forward to it. I think it'll be a great community project. But I just.

I think we should start raising funds with dunking the vice mayor.

I've already been done. I know. Thank you. Let's jump out of a plane.

Do something.

evil kenevo over there really big bets on them i'm gonna survive um okay yeah no i have consensus i just think that um as anthony pointed out we have such a skeleton crew right now and i just i'm a little afraid of putting too much on our staff when we have so many things already so many other what is it forks in the fire What is the phrase? Iron. Thank you. Irons in the fire that that I would like those things to come back to us and get done. You know, so, I mean, adding one more thing, if it's going to take away from other things that we already have moving along, I would like some of those things to get finished before we put this out, because. You know, if we are going to do the outreach at the plaza, which I think is actually a really good idea, you're not doing it in August.

No, as I said, wait till season.

It's way too hot.

Not that we care about it. It's just because it's cooler, not because we want to wait till all the seasonal people here. We want the locals to have their thing in.

No, it's just too hot. We do also actually, you know, though we do have an evening on the Ave coming up. So we could have a booth there. asking well here's the annex what do you see happening here so i mean if we already have that event we might as well put it put out a put up a poster board people right on put up a city tent yeah so maybe i mean i think that that are you guys okay with that that's a great thing we're having the city tent maybe leisure services perhaps something there so we can volunteer to so consent to that okay all right thank you thank you very much so i think do you have direction

It's public outreach.

Public outreach.

Which will be ongoing.

And once we hire a grant writer, that will be one of the priorities to start looking at.

Well, and if they're looking for historic grants, I mean, that's going to be helpful in general.

And sewer grants. All right. Are we ready to move on?

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Great conversation. Okay, we're going to take a comfort break. We'll be right back. No, we don't take a comfort break. Ms. May will be right back. We'll take turns. Okay, the next item is the 17 South M discussion. Staff is looking for direction on future facility uses of 17 South M after the relocation and the Commission's desired next steps. Do we have a presentation from staff? I think we do.

Yes, we do, Madam Mayor.

Good evening. Stuart Sword, Legion Services Director. I'm flanked by William Waters from Sustainability. Virtually, we've got William Kinney, architect with WGI, who's responsible for authoring the renderings that we'll see for options A, B, and C. William Kinney, can you hear us? We'll come back to William Kinney. If you can, just chime in. You can hear us. And we've got Lance Lee here with Jen Moore and Associates. So the first slide is really discussion options. The staff has pretty much done preliminary analysis on this, not really a deep dive. Now the architect has done a deep dive. So any technical questions, I'll defer to either two of the Williams or to Lance. The current layout- We got you loud and clear.

Sorry about that.

I'll call on you if we need you. Thanks for joining. This is the current layout of 17M. I know most folks know where it is. They were a last-minute addition to the backup. I do have one printed copy I can circulate.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but can we get copies made, Mr. Perry, while he's going through this? Otherwise, we're going to be... Can you go back to that slide? Sorry. Sorry.

May I remember before we get started, I do want to say one thing. Remember, this presentation is after the building's moved. Correct. And what we're going to do with it. What to do with it. Thanks.

And I had a couple of questions, but... Okay, we've got some printed copies being made, should be here in the next few minutes. So I'll go ahead and continue on for the sake of time. This is the current layout on the parcel where it is. There's actually two structures there. The garage doors face east currently. I want to point that out because in the new configuration, they'll be facing south. And the larger structure obviously is the hub for leisure services. Now, keep in mind, when 501 housed parking, they were absorbed into 17 Elm. So the footprint of employees currently four divisions work out of 17 South Elm out of eight divisions. Our total staff is 72. Approximately 18 are working out of that. We're working out of that office. This is the layout. I know that can be a little busy. The front porch is not air-cooled. It's just the porch. The back porch is also, as we talked about, the letter of the law and the intent. The back side, the west side of the building was modified for ADA so that if someone needed to come in, they would use the ramp in that parking space for the access aisle. into that building currently on the first floor there's three offices a kitchen and one bathroom this is the main office that is the hub for the nucleus of parking so that large amount of staff 10 right there is pretty much the nucleus for parking the second floor which is the next slide uh has four offices two bathrooms. Now to use the bathroom, you would have to walk through someone's office. So on the second floor, we pretty much had a male and a female bathroom, but you would have to walk through someone's office to utilize the bathroom and a closet that was modified for staff to use as an office. Option A, you can see there, there's some may call this a full renovation, but it's a significant renovation and added just square footage. The current footprint is approximately 2100 square foot. So this would be adding, you know, closer to 800 square foot of usable space. The renderings here from William Kinney, who's on virtually, you know, he's got really six elements of design there. You can kind of see the price point there. I know there is quite a sticker shock with 1.4 in terms of, correct, 1.4 million is a full office renovation. And there's six areas there that are addressed there. We'll talk meeting, you know, the intent of the letter of the law. So this would be more in line with the letter of the law. Any comments on that, William?

No, yeah, this would be for the— It would be a combination of letter and intent.

Correct.

William Kinney, anything? I heard you chime in.

Oh, no, I was just mentioning that, yeah, this would be a full renovation, and it includes circulation of a new elevator to service the first or second— Can you hear me okay?

Now better, yeah.

Okay. Getting old. No, I was just mentioning that. Yeah, this is the full building renovation with added circulation for from the first and second level by adding an elevator and incorporating a full renovation to, you know, for future staff with the existing conditions. So this is the full renovation.

And we'll get into some of these renderings here in the next couple slides. This is First Avenue and K Street. K Street would be the far right. First Avenue to the left of the orientation of the building is how it sits now. However, the garage where it's currently facing east would be facing south for the roll-up doors. In the center on the renderings here, you can kind of see the ADA access. Tried to use the laser pointer here before, and it was kind of absorbed into the screen. It's not working today either. So in the center of the screen there, you'll see the conference room to the left, the storage room. That will be the ADA entrance. Going back to the previous slide, the entrance to the parking garage would be off of First Avenue. The handicap, the ADA, would primarily be inside the parking garage. You would come out onto the sidewalk and then come up the ramp into the parking customer service, which is you come in that double entrance door. That's where you would be received at with that reception area. So the reception area would be the parking customer service. The first floor does give the option for approximately...

Wait, Stuart, just to be clear. When you say come up the ramp, you mean that ramp that will be right there, right? Not the ramp in the parking garage.

Correct. They have to exit out of the parking garage, come out onto First Avenue and come up the ramp.

Not up the ramp that people are driving into of the parking garage.

There'd be like a walk-in access to come out of it. Okay. Lance may have to answer that specific question.

I just want to make sure everybody's clear that we're not asking anybody to walk out the parking garage through the ramp. We're talking about the ADA ramp into 17 South M. So if I need a ramp, I enter from First Avenue South.

I don't have to go through the parking garage to do it.

Correct. For the record, Lance Lilley with Chenmore. The garage itself has accesses that you can come out through, like stairway accesses and whatnot that you can come out. You don't have to go down the physical ramp that you drive your vehicle through.

Never know. Better to ask.

So this can be great. I just wanted to ask a question. So in the garage, where does somebody in a wheelchair exit on First Avenue?

I believe the way it's designed, this is William again, you're going to come out on K Street and have to go down the sidewalk and then around the corner going west and then up the ramp. There is parking that is on that will be left on First Avenue South, probably three parking spaces that could be delineated potentially as an ADA compliant space and then come out of that and you'll be on First Avenue, get on the sidewalk and then come up the ramp between the two buildings.

So this first floor renovation would approximately allow 17 staff to work in there. Right now, current configuration allows about 10. The parking nucleus to that building would still be there, then flex space for special events, PIO. Second floor, six staff could work up here. Director, assistant director could be on the second floor, along with some of the other managers from the four divisions that are currently housed in that footprint. Option B is limited modifications, essentially the ADA ramp, which under option B, there are some modification options because currently most patrons of 17 Elm enter up the stairs off of South Elm Street. On this model here, with the limited renovations, we'd have to put it in between the two buildings, but could explore an option of it being off of K Street.

The ramp?

The ramp, correct. Now, both of these pricings include a 15% contingency, which is pretty much industry standard, and 25% for overhead and profit margin. So you can see the true price, or at least the running estimate of the probable cost is approximately $32,500 for just the ramp and some basic site building elements. William, anything on this?

No, I have nothing to add for this one.

Ms. Malega has her light on.

Thank you, Stu. When I met with staff, and I believe William was there, and interim city assistant city manager McKay was there, and Mr. Perry, my question was, if we don't choose option A, do we have space for our staff? And I was assured, yes, we do. Because I know that you honed in on that on option A. So if we were to choose option B, which includes some staff, 10 employees, is that what it says? For option B? The other employees do have a home to go to, from what I've been told. Is that still correct?

Under option B?

Yes.

Option B would essentially be some leisure staff, most likely the parking nucleus house there, and then another option, perhaps a community partner, a nonprofit, museum, any type of option on the second floor visitor center.

When I talked to Tiana, Assistant City Director, whatever her title is right now, McKay, she had stated that The goal would be to hopefully have the front of the building have one entrance where it was visitor center and the other entrance walk up parking and then the rest of the parking division upstairs.

That's an option that's been discussed. We haven't really done like a detailed analysis on that yet. We just want to kind of get some running estimates for probable cause. Okay.

So that would be included in this option B, what I just stated?

Okay. The pricing may be adjusted a little bit, William Kinney.

Yeah, if we had to readjust the layout of the ramp, I would adjust it slightly, but not significantly.

Okay, because I did a site visit before all this came about, and she had talked about where the open porch is right now. where the window is to the right, possibly making that the walk-up for the visitor center, and then the left side could be parking division for interaction. So I just want to make sure that I'm still on the same page from the previous conversation.

No, I agree. I think all those are options, and that's really what we wanted to get to today.

Under option B.

Correct.

Okay, thank you. Mr. Segridge.

Currently, this building, the layout, it's an office building. correct that's that's what we're using it for correct okay and so if if we're going to make that a quote visitor center or a museum or something the office building layout is non-conducive to that right i mean correct it would be very choppy it would need to be some interior wall modifications okay so your option b and c that includes removing those walls and turning it into that not at this point not to my knowledge

That's not what I was told.

I was told it was. The same price point. So here's my just general issue. I know the mayor is going to tell me I'm like a broken record, but one, I think this is a tremendous waste of city resources and funds to even do in the first place. However, since I lost that vote, we have to try to make the best of it. I don't find these options to be realistic at all. I see an option of $1.4 million to turn it into a viable office because I know right now the structure of it is not great. We have staffing closets kind of thing. And that happens in a historic building when you try to make an office out of it, a residential building into an office. It's my first business I worked out of the broom closet. So on the one hand, here you have a very normal, all right, it's going to be $1.4 million to turn it into a viable office. Got it. Then everything else is $200,000 or $230,000, whatever the number is, $120,000. However, it actually doesn't achieve any of the possible ideas that were suggested, museum, visitor center, or anything else like that. So, I mean, without belaboring the point, I don't want to vote on something without knowing the price. If we say we're going to make this into the visitor center, what's the cost? Because it's not a hundred and something thousand dollars. It's a lot more. So this is BS. I'm pissed. And I've been pissed about this project. And it goes back to my comment earlier. We don't have a PMO. We don't have a project manager. We don't have someone on the city as a sole project manager for what is the largest project right now financially the city's undertaking. And it shows. And it shows because of stuff like this. And I am really pissed about this. And I don't think it's staff's fault. You guys are doing what you're being asked and stuff. But yet again, here we have a meeting where we're being asked to make a choice and none of these choices are something I would vote for. I wouldn't vote $1.4 million to build an office for 17 people, $83,000 a desk. That's crazy. That's a waste of city money. I can't vote for it to become a visitor center or museum, even though I like those ideas because, you know, you pull into the parking garage, where better for the visitor center to be next to the parking garage, except for one little point. All you see when you pull in to the parking garage is a garage and the side of a building. It would make more sense to me that the front of the building, the nice porch, would be facing that way with a big visitor center. Welcome to Lake Worth Beach. But not this. Not this. So I'm sure I'll have more comments on it. I'm interested in what my colleagues think. But we're just voting to flush money down the toilet with this.

Thank you. I have a couple comments. Plan B sounds essentially like move the building, keep it the way it is. Correct? Am I wrong?

Correct. Minus addressing the ADA there to attach that ramp and then any type of patch repair work that needs to occur on the inside of the building post-move. That's what that is.

So again, I'm kind of a basic girl. Good staff. I mean, you're operating out of that building now, correct?

Or you were? We were, correct.

And it was doable. It was not ideal, but it worked, essentially. You emptied out because you know the building is going to be moved, correct?

Correct. We're consolidated at 809 Luzerne.

Right. So if we... if we use if we so if we did plan b the second floor would be the same there'd be no elevator but can staff use the second floor even if it's not ada yes i mean parking could consolidate operations up there however most likely their customer service counter would need to be on the first floor correct right of course so that the people could right okay because we just had conversations about the annex about keeping the annex public and the part of the um you know if Perhaps we could use the annex, you know, put the visitor center back in the annex the way it was. We talked about the museum at the annex, you know, sort of keeping the museum there. So the thought that we're, you know, we've been talking a lot about using this building for a museum or a visitor center. That's, I think, flexible. We don't have a lot of money, but it seems like, you know, the building has to move. If we can, I'm a like adapt or die kind of person. If we can have the building moved there and still function as a basic, what we've been using it for, perhaps that's the best route that we could go for. Because I see a lot of things here with the prices, which include the elevator, but that's a different option. you know, sinks and, you know, we, we could pick it up, move it and it would still function. If not, ideally it would still function with the same bathroom, the same kitchen, the same, some renovations for the ramp, but, um, correct. I have one more question. I, I agree that I think as you'd face first Avenue South, I'm not sure what brought it, to face K Street. So I don't know if that's an option to turn it around because really, I think that really makes what, it's a street, it's a house on First Avenue South. So it should face First Avenue South, I think. And again, for the visual of being in front of the, Mr. Walter, Mr., you're laughing at me.

You're laughing at me. No, I'm just laughing because that was looked at. However, the orientation today for the main building is East. Right. Not a corner. And the orientation of where it's going is east on the street. The building won't fit. That was my question. I mean, was there a reason for it? It was a reason because when you move a building, you want to try to keep the original orientation. So the building faces east. It also faces east now. But the lot that it's going on is only 50 feet wide and the building will not fit or in another direction.

Okay, so it can't physically do that. That's my question. Because if it could, I would argue with you for quite a while about that. So we have to have beautiful landscaping because it really is the side of a building. And that could be signage, that could be murals, that sort of thing. Okay. Ms. Malega has her light. Mr. Perry has his light. What's that? What was that beep?

Maybe Mr. McVoy?

No. Are you beeping?

No, I'm not.

Oh, that was miswinded. I thought maybe he had a problem. Just let us know he had a problem.

Oh, Mr. Perry.

Yes, ma'am. I just want to remind the commission of how we got to this point. As you recall, when we were going through our process, the Leisure Services Department met with the company and asked them to build out the worst case scenario, how much will we spend? And that's when they came up with the 1.4. When we presented it, talked about it, we knew it was a lot of money and we had other ideas such as the utility, the director is building a new building. We thought about maybe moving some of the staff out there. So there were some in-betweens. That's when staff said, we're just going to take a look at what would it take just if we moved the building and just moved into it the way it is. As we discussed the issue, certain elements came up and people say, hey, what about a welcome center? It was just thrown in as a concept, not by staff. But we say, you know what? That's a good idea. Let's take a look at it. So when we brought this forward, we understand that there might be additional costs. But what we're saying is we're not asking the commission to committee the dollars. What we're saying, tell us the concept. Tell us about the concept that you would like to see. And that's why we're here tonight. We're just asking what concept would you like to see? And that's how I just want to break that forward.

I think we all appreciate that. But I think what concept we want to see is also, you know, what do I want to buy? How much do I have to spend? So I'm trying to be a little more realistic. Ms. Malega and then Mr. Segrich.

Thank you. I don't make decisions based on just today. I think about the future of the city of Lakewood Beach. And to me, having the visitor center and the parking division at the parking garage is the only thing that makes sense. I don't think it makes sense for us to have leisure services there or the library people or parks and rec. I think that if we are going to be talking about a parking plan, we need a place for our parking division to be and not be moved around every time we make another decision. So to me, this is solidifying In my opinion, in my little vote, my little my little box, I am going to advocate and support solely this being the parking division and a visitor center. I agree. I don't love the fact that unfortunately the house can only be situated eastbound, but there's a whole side of a house and garage doors that. That can become beautified with art. We are an art town. We can make that very visible that this is the parking division and the walk up visitor center. I'm not in favor, like I said, of sticking more people in room closets. And I'm also not in favor of moving anybody from electric services or customer service there. I am a hard sell on the two things that I've just stated.

Thank you. And would plan B accommodate them?

Well, that's what I was told by staff was that plan B would accommodate with a with obviously, like Mr. Perry just said, if we give direction that, yes, they're going to have to separate the visitors and put up a wall and do some minor modifications. And while I'm no contractor, my grandfather was a. construction worker and rebuild houses. And I don't think the things that we talked about internally on the main floor are big, big ticket items. But I think that these other things on the 1.4 is astronomical, not in any way in favor of that. I would support these, like I said, these ideas coming back with a hard number on here's what it's going to take to make the visitor center, a walk-up window or customer service interaction area for parking, and then all the upstairs to be parking offices.

I agree with you, Ms. May, Vice Mayor May.

Thank you. Just a quick question. For the Visitor Center, do you propose it be staffed by volunteers?

Yeah, that's what it was before.

Okay.

Yes, ma'am. Okay. And I think the volunteers really miss it and they enjoyed it. Oh, yeah. I mean, I would volunteer. I mean, I'm going to have some more free time soon.

So... We do know that I wasn't in favor of moving this anyway. But as we said, you know, one of the things about being part of a board is that once the decision is made, then you go with the majority and you move on and you figure out a way to make it work. So I do like the idea of parking and the visitor center. That makes sense to me. But I also want to reiterate kind of Because I was thinking the same thing. I feel like this is a lot of whack-a-mole. Let's put them here, or wait, we could do this, or we could do this, or we could do this. And it doesn't seem like there's a cohesive plan for all of the staff, for all of the departments in all of the city. And I really think that I mean, we shouldn't be renting space anywhere. I mean, I think we've all said that. We've got the Promenade. We've got the Lucerne. My goal would be to get us out of the rental business and have our people in our own buildings. Now, it seems that facility, we have... The Garage and Public Works wants a new building. 1900 wants a new building. They're getting something. And the Utility Department wants a new building. Well, I'm not voting for any of these buildings until you can tell me an overall plan. I want to know where exactly are people going? What is the overall facilities management of the buildings in the city? And who's overseeing the projects? Until I see that, I'm not voting yes on any of it.

What about this?

This isn't a vote. This is a, oh, yeah, I guess this might be a good idea. I mean.

So you're for option B?

I mean, yeah. I don't believe that option B is going to cost $120,000. I mean, I literally just got a new door and window in my house and it was $13,000. So there's no way getting an entire thing up and running is going to be $120,000. So until we have hard numbers, no, I'm not voting yes. Mr. McVoy, is your hand up?

No.

No, I'm just asking because we can't see.

It should be up, I guess, at some point.

Okay, well, Mr. Segrich has his light on, so... Let's go with that, then. Let's go with that.

How many square feet is the first floor? Approximately? It's roughly 800. 800 square feet. How many square feet would we need for a visitor center?

Well, it will...

It would really depend on what visitor center you're proposing to have. Mr. Lockwood has mentioned that he would provide some assistance in trying to create what the programming would be for a visitor center, displays that might be there. Part of the parking office and visitor center could theoretically share some space if they have exhibits, pamphlets, information to give out. uh it really gives gets more to the programming of it um i design a visitor center it's only 640 square feet for west palm beach but um and that's fair so so take that example right 640 is the other one that we had just for comparison do you remember or no the one that said annex the little office that was there was probably uh eight feet by 20 150 square feet i just

So, you know, I would ask my colleagues, you know, when you say visitor center, do you mean an 8 by 10 or 8 by 15, you know, one small little office with just a kiosk? Or do you envision something more?

We live with what I believe we should live with what we can afford. what we have.

I envision kind of like what we had, maybe a little bit bigger, because you're just getting information. Where do I go for the plate? Where's the plate house?

How many people have been in the cultural council building? When you enter the front door, and I was the design manager for that, so to take credit where... That has a welcome desk that could serve both welcome to visitors as well as your parking interaction. If you look to the right, there's a small room. It's only about 10 by 10. That is their visitor center where you can pick up all kinds of information. There's a kiosk. And on the opposite side, there's another little room, but it's about eight by eight, which is their gift shop. So together, their visitor experience is that for a desk is essentially 180 square feet. Okay. Yeah.

And it's quite adequate. How many parking staff do we have? Currently 10.

We've got two in the process. Currently 10. And thinking for the future, as we look at our neighborhood parking plans and so on and understand that we don't currently have parking staff that works the evenings that we've been asking for, that number is going to grow. I think in the next five years, it could be fair to say it's going to be 14, 15, 16 people. then this doesn't have enough space to house all the parking together because it's got, in its current configuration, it's got room for eight people upstairs. If you take half of the downstairs for bathrooms in the visitor center, That leaves room for about two parking people downstairs because you have your parking window, essentially. That makes most sense on the bottom floor. As soon as we start hiring more parking people, we're either going to be smooshing people together or it's not going to work.

I hear what you're saying, but some of the offices on the second floor are way too big and only house one or two people and could be better configured if you would.

You also have some room to use. I just brought this up. The first floor of the garage building, which is conference room and storage, that building could easily be converted for use as office, cutting it in half in some fashion.

There's a second floor to it.

There's an attic. I don't think I want to put staff up there. It could be storage. Short staff.

Cones and stuff. Barriers.

But anyway, you have about 250 square feet that's not really being programmed that could be easily programmed at a later date within the garage building itself and still have storage if it's needed.

Could the garage become the visitor center?

Yes. Yeah.

Because, you know, you can see like a very open, like a lot of people do when they finish their garages here. We have to keep the facade of a garage door. They could be, you know, bay doors that open, you know, make it very much walk in and out.

garage in Delray.

You know, and then the other kind of question is a lot of our houses have connected their garage to the main structure to create some sort of covered space. You know, it It does bother me a little bit that the ADA accessibility is you have to go out and all the way around to get to that ramp. If it's raining or something like that, there's no cover on it. So, you know, I think at least consider some sort of... Covering, you know, because if we're going to do this, we should do it right. You know, it's it's you know, it is it is what it is. Let's let's make sure that we understand and have a design that is welcoming and isn't just a house that's dropped in there facing the wrong direction.

I did like how I did like how William said, though, that you could we could do three designated spots out in front for ADA as well.

I don't think it was out in front. I think it's in the garage.

Oh, didn't you say out in front?

There is parking allowed on First Avenue South, and we could donate some ADA-compliant spaces on the street. I like that idea. That would be preferable.

Yeah, that's a great idea. So...

There are a whole bunch of options where two buildings like this are connected by an awning. And one of the original ideas was a glass breezeway between the two, which is kind of really expensive. So I think the awning route would be the route to go from an expediency and a cost standpoint.

What about a bunch of those umbrellas, like the art that they do?

I want that so bad. I want the alleyway between downtown pizza and that big building. Or crocheted.

I do think if we are going the visitor center route, it has to be facing First Avenue because when you're pulling into the garage, you have to see it and go, oh, let me just walk in there before I go to downtown versus the side of the building.

I can get behind that idea, especially if it's like the arts park in Detroit.

People need to be able to pay their parking tickets and it needs to be full service for them. Are we going to have to have the plexiglass windows or is it going to be more of a desk experience?

Currently, I was kind of in compliance with COVID protocols and stuff like that. So currently we have it because oftentimes folks come into the parking office with a hot temperature. So there is like a physical barrier there between them and the customer service attendant. So it is recommended for that.

If we did the visitor center in the garage on the first floor, could we have room for maybe a PBSO duty office in there? A safety officer?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Or a park ranger.

Park ranger. Or a park ranger. Yeah. So... So I would like staff to come back with this. And I understand it's not going to be the $120,000, right? But I think if we're already doing it, it better be done right because this is going to be one of the first buildings that anyone sees in our city.

I consent on all those things. You got my consents.

Mr. McCoy, have you been listening, Mr. McCoy? I have, indeed.

And what say you? To my knowledge, was not beeping. Something that occurred to me is listening to a lot of the discussion of visitor center and people saying, well, it sort of makes sense to put it where you at the garage, you park your car and you go to the visitor center. I'm a little surprised to hear that because there's been a lot of talk with mobility plans, with transit-oriented development, with even, although it may be a stretch, trying to get if there's a, and I forget what the proper name for it, but a more regional train system that would have a stop on the eastern tracks in Lake Worth. There's a lot of Discussion has been over a number of years of Lake Worth. In fact, I think it just came up with the annex building that people would get on Brightline or some other train and come to Lake Worth and enjoy it. I'm not that convinced that putting the visitor center next to the garage is really the message that we want to send or that reasonable location. It would make a lot more sense to me to have a relatively small one in the annex building. which maybe you've parked your car in this new garage, but presumably if the garage is doing what it's supposed to do, the person is going to then go by foot into the downtown somewhere or other. So getting to a visitor center in the annex building would make a lot more sense to me. The other thing that I wondered about in the discussion that I heard was parking staff having offices. I'm sure that some of them do need to have offices, but wouldn't a fair amount of parking staff be out and about quite a bit of the time? I don't know how they do parking work remotely, not being on the street, but maybe I don't understand that part. I also wondered when a park ranger was mentioned, I believe the term is park ranger, not office ranger. So wouldn't you want your park ranger out in the parks for them to be useful for whatever function that is? So I have some questions of what we're going to do with this building. Yeah, I guess I'll leave it at that.

Thank you. I don't disagree with having the Visitor Center in the Annex. However, reality sets in and it's going to be a long time before we have anything at the Annex. It's much closer in time and space in the cosmos that we'll have the building on the parking building there first. Mr. Segrich.

I'd say ideally you'd have a little bit of both.

Yeah, why not?

Because if the annex is supposed to be the activated public space it is, what better space for a kiosk or something as well, right? You can't have too much promoting of our town and our own businesses. So I guess, you know... I don't know if we have to make a motion or just ask to give direction, but I would essentially say let's give direction to have the visitor center be constructed within the garage, the little two-door garage, have some sort of an awning or a covering to connect the buildings to provide shelter, shade, rain, and so on. Handicap accessible or ADA accessible parking immediately out front. Having a office on the first floor for either a downtown duty officer or park ranger or some sort of PBSO presence, because we do have our downtown team. It would be nice for them to be walking around. And then our parking division.

Yeah, we actually did try to do the satellite at the Osborne Community Center. And a couple of years ago, we had a satellite office for PBSO. And the officers would sometimes go there, even if they just sat there and did their paperwork. Just have 10 minutes to do their paperwork.

Yeah, absolutely. That would be, I don't know, we have to do it in a form of a motion or is it just directions?

Just giving direction, right? Consenting to all.

I have one, only one blue card. Madam Clerk, do you have any public comments?

I do not, Madam Mayor, but can we finish up with a consensus? I have two, Commissioner Segridge and Maliga for this.

And you have me? Do you have Ms. May?

No, nor Mr. McVoy.

No, I'm asking. I mean, I'll consent to have staff go and look at it and come back with final numbers.

That's what we're asking.

Mr. McVoy? I consent to that, yes. Mr. McVoy?

And I guess what I'm consenting to is visitor center in the garage. Awning and what else?

Well, you're not consenting to exactly approve it as much as you are to have them go back and look at it and come back with some actual numbers. I don't think, I mean, I'm not going to approve something with no money attached.

We're not pulling the trigger right now. We're asking for having them come back.

And a satellite office for either a PBSO or a park ranger.

What say you, Mr. McVoy?

I guess so.

Okay. Well, okay. So, you have your direction. Ms. Brown, you have a card here? You got to say your name and you got to say your address. Turn on, but you first. Everybody, really. What do I know?

I usually sit in the back and don't talk. Having worked in the visitor center, I think it belongs in the center of town. There are a lot of people that come into this town that won't go to the parking garage. And to have the visitor center a block and a half away on a side street, people aren't going to go there. It's my opinion.

I think you've heard a discussion about it. Right now, we've got that one building to work with. The annex for another day. Okay, that's all the public comment I have.

But actually, I kind of think about what you just said. I mean, unless you park in the parking garage, and even if you park in the parking garage, you're not necessarily exiting onto First Avenue South. You're exiting onto K Street. So having a visitor center at the...

The south side of the garage doesn't make as much sense as the north side of it. Well, there's going to be signage. And Dell raises at the actual end of Atlantic and the ocean at the corner.

No, I get that. So, I mean, that's...

But I did like what Commissioner Snaggert said. I mean, to have multiple is not going to be a bad thing. I was going to ask this. Do we have any data on, like, who's or how often are those information... Things are being used, the kiosks that are all over town. Do we have any data that we can pull from that to see if people are using it?

I'm not sure if there's like qualitative data, but I can look into it.

I don't disagree that it should be downtown. I mean, that eventually have both, but I'm okay with going forward the way we did. So moving right along, do you want to come for a break or we can keep going? Okay, take separate private comfort breaks.

Does that include me, Madam Mayor?

Sorry?

The city clerk deserves and requests a comfort break.

Oh, I think we're being requested for a comfort break.

We'll be on a short recess. Thank you.

Thank you. Donna Wharton- Madam Mayor.

Madam Mayor, it's 8.09. Are we ready? Or 8.10? Are you ready to reconvene?

I'll be right with you, Madam Clerk.

Okay. And if Commissioner Malia could close the door, that would be great. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Don't eat a cracker when you're supposed to talk. Thank you, Madam Clerk.

It is 8.10 and we've reconvened.

Okay, great. Now we are on new business. A, the only one. Beach circulation concept plan for the Lake Worth Beach Casino Complex. I guess staff has a report for us.

Yeah, Jamie Brown, Public Works Director. This has come out of, gosh, well over almost like two years now, meetings with the tenants up at the beach and just different things that we've been kind of dealing with nonstop. So what we have done is worked and put together a concept for the beach to basically change the two-way traffic circulation to one-way southbound. I'm just going to kind of walk through the plan here. So basically when you come across A1A heading eastbound, Just like you do right now, you can come right around the traffic circle and head back south and do your parking here. But you also have the ability now to go, you have two lanes heading south. This allows us to add an additional 11 parking spaces on the east side of these lanes here. The three at the north end of the casino and the three at the south end of the casino, these ones that are with the dark hatching here. We had looked at possibly doing temporary parking, the 15 minute parking, which would address some of the concerns up there, which is, you know, some of the delivery services and stuff that weren't around back when this was laid out, you know. well over a decade, two decades ago now, just weren't around back then. So the people who just want to come and, you know, do like Uber Eats or something like that and grab a couple slices of pizza, something like that, having to park way down at the bottom, come all the way up for that. So addressing that, it does allow us to increase our landscaping along this area here. And then as you... It's not dragging out, so... As you move further south here, there would be an additional five spaces, which we could make permanent spaces, or those could be additional temporary spaces as well. And then you continue on. We still have the roundabout there. And then everything else is basically the same except for the traffic pattern. You would have a merged and no entry, so no one would be able to come in from the south entrance of the casino building. You wouldn't be able to come right up this way. You'd have to go through the parking lot. But this also addresses some of the issues with fire safety. Stu and I were talking right before this, actually, about some of the events over the weekend up at the beach. There were a lot of stacking and issues because it was a fire. But come on up, man.

You're right back there.

But what were some of the issues you were just telling me about just from the weekend?

Stuart Sword, Leisure Services Director. So just observed yesterday there in the Venice Beach cleanup, significant amount of traffic in the Far East lot, the top lot, the upper lot. And what you'll see is folks will put on their blinker to take a spot of someone who's starting to load their fishing poles or whatever. And it's quite the production to outload the beach. So they're sitting there for five minutes, sometimes more. waiting to turn. So folks try to go around, now counterflow into that lane, and it creates a bottleneck. And yesterday, Fire Rescue was circulating down there, and they had to blow the horn to clear out the bottleneck that's occurring because people are essentially blocking both lanes, waiting for a spot to open up. So significant delays that can occur up there during peak times.

So this is just basically taking into account some of the stacking issues we're seeing, just the traffic pattern issues we're seeing, fire rescue issues, tenant issues, and addressing some of their concerns that we've met in meetings with them as well. And just kind of just trying to modernize our traffic flow up there and modernize the beach and just make for the best experience we possibly can. But we wanted to bring this to all of you after having met with tenants and everything and see what – Some potential ideas are what you guys think of this, if you are in favor of something like this, if you would like to see something different, if you don't like this at all. But it's kind of a starting point to see where you want to go from here.

Have you spoken with police and fire about that? You know that they're in agreement with this fire?

Yes. Police. We have not yet.

They don't have the big.

Correct. Correct.

So the fire department is OK with it.

Back when we spoke with them, again, this started a while ago. I believe Gerald Dean was still here back then. So he goes back quite a while. But again, with some of the issues, we came up with the pre-agenda meeting where you now have basically people parking illegally in the fire lane at the top there and trying to run across and get something real quick. And that's a consistent issue that we deal with.

Okay. Who wants to start? I have something I have an opinion, but I'm just one of five. So I see no lights on. We can't, we can't put no. Yeah, we can't get down. We're not allowed to use zip zip drives from outside.

Okay. Well, I just have a question because you went over the 12 or 11 additional parking spots, but you didn't talk about the valet. Can you talk about that?

Sorry about that. Yeah. So another right here at the north end, that was one of the things that came up in speaking with some of the tenants. And if we were going to address some of these issues up there, If this is something the city would be interested in doing in the future, it'd be something we would address right now. So at least we have the space for it. Should that be something we want to do? Where you'd basically come up here, you would be able to basically stack at least one vehicle here in these first two spots. These resident parking spots would then shift to the bottom lot here. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

That was, I'm bludgeoned by that because that's my concern too. Taking away resident parking doesn't seem to be the direction that we're going in.

Those two would just shift to the other resident parking spots we have down here. So you would...

Or make them the most desirable two residential parking spots and have them take up two of the 11 or two of the 13 spots that you're talking about. Because the residential, I mean, that's the one thing about them is they're convenient. There are some down on the lower level, but those are the ones that are like the premium spots. Let's not give them away to the valley.

The valley parking would be in the bottom area down here. That's for the stacking.

That still takes away the parking space.

I understand, but there needs to be an area somewhere up here where someone can hand their keys off, and then they can take the vehicle and go park it in the spots that are designated for valet.

Well, I mean, that's a very big concern. My other question was, it's an increased landscaping. I'm a little, when I come up, because I go usually every day, you know, the sea grapes are so high now, it's like you're going up to a wall. You don't see the ocean as much as you could, and I don't know how much we can... trim of sea grapes but the thought of more vegetation although i'm all pro vegetation are we going to block the view because one of the things that i if we have the 15 minute parking spots and those that have been here for a while we used to be able to just go park and look at the ocean and this would allow us now i have to like illegally stay at that circle up on top for five minutes if i want to so that would give people the opportunity to stop either walk out or just like look at the ocean

The preference would be, this would be one of those areas we would not recommend shade trees, but these could be taller palms that would line the entire strip there to add to. Correct. Nothing that would actually block view from vehicles passing by. But that does give us that ability. And again, as far as the valet, this could not just be for someone maybe frequenting like a restaurant or something up there, but this all just could be for someone who's coming to the beach, they don't want to park in their car, they want to just drive up there, jump out with their cooler in their chair and

Folks, really, fill out a blue card.

So again, something that doesn't have to be done. It's just if we're going to kind of address a lot of concerns, it'd be something we could...

Especially like during turtle season, it's really dark for people to park on the bottom and come up to the restaurants. I've had many comments from the owners up there. It's going to be hard.

So, again, just wanted to take into account everything that we had discussed with everyone and see if, you know, at least have an area for it. If that's something in the future the city is interested in doing, you would then have this crosswalk here. It's not shown in this plan, but the thermostriping triangle here that separates the east and westbound lane, that would actually be a raised median. So, you'd have a pedestrian refuse there.

Yeah, I mean, that's the worst design. There's no pedestrian crossing. Correct.

So, we would have to address that as part of this overall plan. But...

I had one more comment and then I'll stop. I noticed some comments about we shouldn't do anything until we have this whole plan for the beach. Well, I want to be alive when we have a plan for the beach, but if I'm not, it doesn't matter. I mean, that will not affect the overall plan of the beach. The casino is there. The tenants are there. The ocean is there. The parking lot's there. That's not going to change. So that's my response to where I read it's too early to do this. We could sit forever and do nothing. Ms. Maliga.

I was going to say, to that point, Madam Mayor, you know, there's been discussion of possibly doing a structure. This would not change the actual traffic flow or what we'd be looking to do here. And we do have... Tenants that have been very loyal and been up there for quite a while. And when when they tell us different things and things they'd like to see, it's nice to be able to address some of those at some point in time because they have been there and they're asking for things. So, again, I don't know what the time frame is for some of the things that may or may not happen up there. But again, we want to at least bring this forward so we can have a conversation and see where it goes.

Yeah, and I mean, they've been asking because Uber Eats, Dash, Driver, whatever it is, can't go up there. Okay, Ms. Malego.

Where does the delivery trucks go? Can you go back to that? Yes. The Chaney Brothers, all the ones that back up the traffic?

Yep. They park...

I know where they park now.

Yeah, yeah. So this basically allows you a through lane. is what it does. So when those vehicles are up and then some do come early, they do early deliveries before the beach gets crowded. But right now you basically have them blocking your, your northbound lane or your southbound lane. And then you're in that issue where you're kind of sitting behind them waiting for traffic to come through. So you can now go around them, but it still stacks up traffic behind them. So this essentially gives you a through lane. So when that's happening, you have the ability to go around them.

Well, would it, would it not be prudent for us to make, A delivery designated area. If we're going to be doing this, I mean, I'm not I'm one of the ones who's not in favor of doing this until we know what we're doing with the beach, because we just had nine people come tour the casino building and nobody give us an offer to do anything because of the eyesore of the pool. So to me, I'm spending good money before I even know what bad money I have to spend to make this. And the people have spoke. They don't want us to do a triple P. So, yes, I agree. We have to do something, especially for the tenants that are there. But I know that the biggest concern is when the delivery trucks are there. And I think that it would be prudent on us to make a designated delivery spot in between, obviously, the main tenants and the main building and then Benny's. I also would like to know if we're going to have valet, are we going to offer residents a discount? Because to me, if we're having valet and residents choose to use it, because there's not that many residential spots, by the way. I mean, even for those of us who have decals, I think if we're going to offer valet, I think that it would be nice to give residents a discount at their Lakewood Beach logo if they choose to use valet. I know that for ADA compliance, people who are schlepping five kids and all the stuff and they're toting and they're going to the beach for hours. Valet is a great option. I think that putting in valet parking when I have this huge eyesore of an empty pool is kind of a mixed signal. I think of valet as elevating an experience. And right now that that That building needs a lot of attention. We need to make a decision on what we're going to do. And this is back to what Commissioner Segwitch was saying earlier. We have all these things that we need to do and we have all these balls in the air and we're playing whack-a-mole. And to me, I wish that we were sitting here talking about how are we going to fill in the open hole and get rid of the eyesore that's there so we can get tenants upstairs and we can start making real revenue in the ballroom. So, I mean, I just, I'm indifferent. To this whole thing? Because I just feel like this should be like five steps down that we're going to do this and then wait for Zakovich and wait for the pool and wait for the ballroom. And I understand we have these tenants who have these desires, but I also know that garbage is an issue up there and delivery trucks is an issue. And I just, I'm not warm and fuzzy about this whole conversation.

I think with a, essentially like a third lane, correct? Up on the top.

It'd be a two lane.

Two lane. Yeah. But on the one way with a delivery truck, they could then one way go around it. Correct.

Okay. Correct. And to answer one of Madam Mayor, on the, the resident decal spaces. Based on the number of spaces we have, we can only do so many because of the money we got with the county when they redeveloped. Any space we add though, we still are meeting that minimum requirement. So technically all 11 of these spaces could become, if we didn't want to do any temporary spaces at all, you could have six temporary spaces and add five more resident decal spaces at the top. You could do three temporary spaces and add eight resident decal spaces. So as long as we're adding spaces, you can designate those as residential because we're still meeting our minimum requirement as far as what the county required for. It needs to be open to everyone in the county, not just Lake Worth Beach.

I appreciate that. Like I said, I'm still concerned about the delivery trucks that are up there because if you have one or two at the same time and then you've got the Uber Eats guy and then you've got It's just, I think that this, I understand the congestion because I've been up there and I've seen the people double, triple parked when they're not supposed to be, where it says no parking and then people pull over and park anyway. And I do believe that the conversation has to be had. I just think that we're putting the cart way before the horse right now.

And we did run some models on different areas. We could possibly do that. What... What came back was basically the amount of time that you have delivery trucks up there, the benefit would be more to have those be actual spaces rather than just for the time, the temporary times that the actual delivery truck is there, because they take up basically three spaces.

And if it was one, but they were both one way, you could still get it to be less of a traffic jam.

Correct. And that was the way to address that without having a designated delivery truck area.

Well, what about making that little circle the delivery truck, which is where I usually see the parking people parked with their hazard lights on when they're

Some of these trucks don't make the radius. Because when you're on the simulation, it's like a 14 vehicle. Yeah, there's a certain vehicle you have to run through the simulation to make sure it makes the radius, and that does not work. So we did look at all that.

Bye, Samir and Meg. Thank you. I definitely am not for taking away any of the parking spaces up there for valet. I also think I agree with Commissioner Maliga. I think that this is I know you spent a lot of time on this and I know you talk to the valets or not the valets, the tenants. And I know that there is a problem that you are trying to solve. I get that. But I don't see this as the solution. I see. Well, first of all, talking about valet. All right. I'm not looking to add more valet anywhere in the city when we can't even enforce the valet we have right now. We don't have a real valet permit. The valets right now, there's no parking, working at night, making sure that they're actually doing what they said they were going to do, which is to, they were supposed to get an offsite spot where they were going to take the cars. But right now they're charging their valets customers to park in our free spots meaning that people that are just coming downtown from south palm park don't have a spot but somebody's literally getting paid to park in that free spot that doesn't make any sense to me i'm not willing to start any other valet until we can get this taken care of and again it's adding more things on when we're not taking care of what we have That's where I am on this. I don't think it's necessarily bad. I just am not ready for it. We have too much to do already. I know I talked to Stuart regarding the valet permit, and he said that coming up on this year, I think, Stuart, you had said something about coming up on this year. You had the ability to get the permit right, get the enforcement right. And I think that's great. Let's start there. I also don't know how $350,000 pays for switching the lanes from one way to the other. That just seems like a lot of money, but I don't know.

That's a good bucket of paint.

But the other thing is with the 11 spaces that you're creating, you could do three of them to be the valet if we were going to go to the valet at some point. So you could do that as the valet. The only problem with that is that they have to drive all the way down and then have the kids to run the valet come all the way back up.

We looked at all that as well.

And the other thing is that the valet could be down at the bottom, but you have a golf cart to drive the people up as part of the valet service. So there's some other options. I also am really concerned with the fact that, first of all, we didn't see this before it came out. And I just think that people need to be aware that it's not like this commission thing. is the only one coming up with things and asking you guys to bring them to this. You guys come up with it, you bring it to us, and then we talk about it. One thing I am concerned about is there's been no public outreach for this, except for to the tenants up there. And Geraldine was a fire chief a long time ago. I would prefer if you had current conversations with the current fire chief and the current chief of PBSO. So I think it's a premature for us. I can't make a decision that says go for this. I just don't think we're there.

Well, Vice Mayor, when you get to a certain point where we actually have a concept, we'd like to bring it to you guys to see, is this worth even moving forward with? Because there's no sense setting up public meetings and all this stuff if ultimately you guys are like, yeah, we're just not in favor of this because now we've wasted a lot of the public's time as well. Bringing forth something that you guys haven't even had a chance to really comment on or say, yeah, we think it's a good idea or no, we don't.

Right.

So we wanted to we were kind of at a point where like, OK, we got a decent concept now. Let's see what the commission flavor is like, what they think about this. And you guys are like, yeah, we could possibly looking to do something. Then we would set up everything with the public. We just don't like to. Yeah.

you saying that because i think there was some misconception and with the public today thinking that this was the final plan and the commission was trying to bamboozle them and all this crazy stuff was happening i made sure i put concept i know but which is not the case at all so i appreciate you clarifying that um i think that i think there's more conversations to be had i don't think it's necessarily um necessarily a bad idea i do think that we are going to have to do something regarding the um uber eats and that type of thing i think the 11 spots adding 15 minute parking in 11 spots i think we can be more judicious with those spots um so i'm i like the beginning i'm i'm not sold on the final

And Madam Mayor, if I can address one or the other. As far as the cost, it's thermoplastic striping up there. That's a lot of bead blasting work to get all that up before you put down new thermo and everything. So that's when you have to remove all of the existing striping. It's a lot of tedious work. And then there's asphalt work. There's concrete work with all the new curbing stuff that has to go in. There's landscaping portion of it. So there's a lot to it. Do I think we can get it for well under that? Absolutely.

OK. And to be to be fair, I agree that, you know, if we're going to do it, we got to do it right. And you got a thermal blast or whatever. But I also have driven down South First Avenue. And I mean, we can't even drive down that street. So we have drivable streets that are working great up there. We have a lot of others that you literally may lose part of your car driving down. So it's not my priority. That's all I'm saying.

I'm like, get a bucket of paint and change the arrows. Get the high school. Mr. Savage.

Thank you. Did we pay WGI for consulting on this, or we just reused their maps?

Very minimal amount, because this was not an actual design plan. It's just basically utilizing existing survey. Okay, so we did pay for some consulting. Yeah, we met them outside to kind of look at some different things.

And just for clarity for the public... How long have you been working on this? Like the concept, it's been around for three years, four years, two years?

It's about like two years, but obviously we weren't working on that the whole time. We would meet with, come up with an idea, meet with tenants, then five, six months later, it's not something that's been pressing because as you said, there's a lot of other stuff going on, but we finally got to a point now. So there hasn't been an extreme amount of staff time put into this.

And just to clear up some public perception, this was not primarily tenant-driven, correct? That is correct. The primary driver to this was traffic flow?

The primary driver to this was the traffic flow and all the issues that we as staff have realized and recognized up there over the years and realized we need to address. Obviously, if we're going to address that, we need to actually speak with the tenants up there as well and say, hey, we're looking at addressing the traffic patterns up here. what are some things that you guys would like to see if we're going to do some improvements? So we're not going to leave people out of that process.

We're already doing the work. Can we help you out a little? Right. So, you know, I think that's important to note because, you know, some of the attendants that were vilified online had nothing to do with requesting this. Primary drivers are traffic flow and fire. I am with commissioner Malega and may on, you know, There is so much wrong with what's going up at the beach that needs to be corrected. I'm looking at the overview here, and pretty much 50% of that land is this big, dark, gray, useless structure with our wonderful LW. pieces of wood chips sign that you know i ate um it already been discussed um so If we were to, so I understand the delivery truck issue, you know, that kind of, you know, makes perfect sense, right? If we have two different one ways, there's a lot of traffic. I try to avoid going up to the top of that just because, you know, when you're driving through, people are trying to back into spaces and things like that. It's a mess. I just don't like dealing with it, right? This would alleviate a lot of that, right? I wouldn't be necessarily opposed to just looking at purely changing the traffic pattern, doing, doing nothing else other than saying, instead of it being two, one ways, it would be unidirectional. And what's the minimum that we have to do to accomplish that? Um, I think addressing the Uber Eats issues and so on, there's a very select number of tenants, about one, where Uber Eats is probably an issue or DoorDash and all of that. That's the pizza parlor. I mean, they do do a lot of business. We order from them all the time. So To me, that would be nice to have. But the overall problem I have is... We're paying Ziskovich to look at the beach and tell us some stuff. Even that, I was not for. I just didn't think they were the right group. But we've got the pool area and so much else there that I think any kind of significant changes to our design and flow and where do we put parking and so on needs to be part of a more cohesive plan, right? This is where we want to go with the beach. And I will disagree with my colleagues in that where it was said that the residents rejected the idea of a public-private partnership. They rejected the idea of them not having the vote on it. They rejected the idea of us being able to say, we grant you this longer lease for the partnership. So that's an important distinction because I still think it is a possibility. It makes it a lot harder, but if we can get somebody to bring forth a good plan or we bring forth a good plan, we could achieve that. But I think Rearranging for valet parking and adding spaces, removing spaces and stuff like that is... If it's like a freebie on top of what it would cost just to reverse the flow, essentially, then maybe. But if it's $200,000 out of the $390,000... then I don't know if we should be necessarily considering that right now. And it has not come before the public. This is the first time that we're discussing it or seeing it. I did like the suggestion that if we were to do something, how are we adding more resident spaces, right? And so immediately my mind jumps to, The county just voted not to charge for parking. So they have the park right next to ours, which now they're no longer going to be getting revenue from.

They're going to keep, I think they're going to keep those that are, I thought they said they weren't going to, they're not adding.

Well, it would have been nice because maybe we could take that over. Right. No, but, but, but in all honesty, thinking of something like that, it is, it is kind of a bolt on to, to our beach. Maybe, maybe there is something greater, you know, work with the County and stuff we did. We've done it before. on a much better plan that increases the number of resident parking spaces and makes the access for our residents easier. Because as tourism increases, the unfortunate side effect of that is it makes our amenities less accessible to our residents just by sheer numbers of people that come in. So I'm not ready to move forward with this concept. I would like to know what would the impact be just to reverse the flow, because I do recognize that fire and the delivery trucks and the traffic jam is a problem. And I think we hopefully would be able to address that quickly. I'm in agreement with Commissioner May. We need to bring our existing fire chief and existing fire people into the discussion because I don't even know if their trucks can fit around that circle, the newer ones that they have. I mean, you know, but if we're taking on our project, they might have other ideas, right? And if, you know, if it becomes unidirectional... Why do we need the traffic circle on that one side?

Because the bus.

The bus? Yeah. To go up and go around. Okay.

They all use it. Yeah.

So I just, right now, you know, thank you for putting the thought into it and working with the business owners and so on on it. But For me, it's just a little too much. I'd rather just look at the unidirectional and what that can achieve.

Thank you. I agree with you. It seemed like when it was brought up a while ago, it seemed like such a simple idea. Literally, I mean, get a bucket of paint and change the arrow. What do I know? But I think we're making this overcomplicated by all the other stuff. So I don't think it's premature. I don't think we need Siscovich to tell us. Mr. McGloy, I'm sure you have a comment.

Well, I thank you. I generally am fairly similarly aligned to some of the other concerns that it doesn't seem like this is our biggest priority, either citywide or beachwide, if that's a term. The concept of making it unidirectional southbound That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I'm not sure it would cure the problem that was discussed early on of people waiting for somebody to unload and get in and out of a parking space. Maybe it would help with that. Won't make it any worse. And it might accommodate the delivery truck. So the unidirectional I could go along with. I don't know that I see it as the biggest priority. I do understand people, you can't just paint when you've got to do directional painting. It's special paint and blah, blah, blah, and it's on really tight so it doesn't come off, which means when you want to take it off, it's not so easy. And I don't have any problem, although I thought Jarlene did a very good job. I also think Mr. Spiegelhalter does a very good job. So, sure, check in with him. I don't see any problem with that. But if I was thinking of priorities, we've all expressed some interest in trying to do something with the northernmost space on the second floor. And maybe to people's surprise, I've always been a supporter of that being such a unique space. I have no problem with it being a expensive, fancy restaurant that probably most of us wouldn't be able to afford most of the time, but maybe would once in a while. But everything I've heard for decades is that nobody was very interested in biting on that because there were some structural things at the north end of the building and maybe some kitchen things. Some of it was where dumpsters were. Some of it is there, you know, kind of matching aesthetic level access to the second floor that doesn't go by dumpsters that would be accessible for folks that might be looking for that kind of experience. I would think that we would be better off putting our energy and our money into getting some outside advice from experienced restaurant people, have them do a walk through the building and say, what do we need that probably anybody who's going to want to rent this would want before they're even willing to consider it? I would put some thought into that and some money and energy into that before I did some of these. I'm not a fan of the valet parking idea. And I'll leave it at that.

Thank you.

Oh, sorry. One thing that the mayor said it was your first thing that there are people who like to drive up and spend a while looking at the ocean. And I've raised this before and I'll raise it again. I totally agree. And I don't encourage them to idle their cars while they're doing it. But I do think and particularly for folks where mobility is an issue, they may just not be able to get down, you know, and walk around on the beach. It's kind of hard. But being able to look out at the ocean, I want to make that that's a priority for me to make that a continued thing.

Thank you. Yes, and I agree with you on that. I mean, to me, I think, you know, we blast out the paint, we change the angle, we add those parking spaces up there that's really all we need to do. The valet, we can deal with later if we have to. But I think we're just, interesting, because I thought this would be sort of a less controversial. Ms. Malek and then Mr. Segwige.

I don't think it's controversial, but I do think that, and I will support bringing back a number and making the lane changes going one way. I think it's important that staff come give a update on why we didn't have any offers on the oceanfront property. Rip the bandaid off. Let the public know. We had people, nobody bid, here's why. Because Mr. McVoy just said we should have, we had plenty of people who came up there. Let the public know why we're not getting those offers and we need to fix it. We can't keep ignoring it. That's the bottom line. And, you know, again, I just keep saying we've paid Ziskovich. We have information we're waiting on. We have an empty hole. There's a lot of things that we need to fix, like Commissioner Segret said earlier, and Vice Mayor Mason. We have things we need to get done. And I hear you want to address the tenants' concerns, and I'm very grateful for that. Thank you for being an ear to them. And they know that you are a good sounding board, and you're there for them to be that conduit for us. But I really think that we need to have staff, either Stu or Tiana, give the commission a public update on why we did not get any offers on the ballroom.

Sounds good.

thank you um separate issue but yeah sounds can we get consensus on that like real consensus yeah yeah i'm in yep concern yep in okay so we need an update on that because people do need to know i mean we did it's not like no one's ever looked at it and we're just sitting done recently so um yeah okay uh mr segwitch

So, I mean, on that point, just really quick, it's the gaping empty hole. It's the fact that from the second story, you see all of the sins of the casino complex. You see the nasty dumpsters. You see the LW wood chip sign. You're driving in. The landscaping is dying everywhere. There's still construction debris everywhere. since FDOT came through that hasn't been removed. Wires just hanging out and stuff like that. No one's going to come in. The other thing is there's structural problem, not structural, but there's design problems with that building that the second story is non-conducive to certain uses. And then the last thing is we asked them to go do a government proposal. Restaurant tours and shop owners, we didn't ask Mamma Mia's to do a government proposal. We didn't ask the t-shirt company guy to do a proposal. If you want to rent out a space, rent out a space. Just list it for rent and be done with it. And you'll find we'd probably get more. But the overall thing is, yes, I agree. We have to do something. And I'm... I really do hope Ziskovich comes back with something meaningful. I've been a strong detractor from that, and I don't have a good feeling about it, but I do hope they do so that it will be useful. I'm with you on that.

But they won't. You told them to stop.

We told them to curtail theirs to just the core items. I'm hoping they even come back with something like that. And it's been a while. So I don't know what they're doing, but I mean, certainly they should have had something for us by now. But because we didn't start off with one, I'm going to make a motion and then we can have public. I know, but I don't want to vote on it. I just did to make the motion. My motion is to disapprove. this as written and to instruct staff to come back with something that really addresses the bidirectional to unidirectional change. And that's it.

Do I have a second? I mean, I can second it, but I want to hear your public comment.

Of course, yeah. We'll second it. Okay, so we have a motion by Mr. Segrich and a second by Ms. May. And we have public comment. Madam Clerk, do you have any public comment on this?

I have a few, Madam Mayor.

That's what I thought. Okay. I read them all earlier. Okay. Mr.

Gross.

Good evening. Ken Gross, 310 South M Street. I had a lot to say on this. And after listening to you folks, I feel that I'm on the same page with you. with you. And now I want to look at the question. I'm worried about the disconnect between the commission and with all respect, city staff and the residents. And we really want to look back and add, we, we really need our full to my friend's point. We really need a full-time city manager. I know we're in the process, but that's it.

Thank you, Ms. Fisher. Followed by Mr. Dow. Followed by Mr. Plowman.

Hey, this is 508 North A Street. I'm glad to hear all your comments and your agreement. This first was mentioned publicly in this room at the beginning of September of last year. And at that time, it was said that they were working with WGI. I would like someone to ask how much has been paid to WGI, which Commissioner Segrich sort of asked, and how much staff time has been put into this? Because it doesn't seem like it was a concept that was really driven by for the right reasons at most. When I first heard this, I asked our current district fire chief. I just had the city talk to him. The answer was no. That concerned me greatly. When this was coming up again, I again ask the same individual, had the city talked to him? The answer again was no. I think if we are going to do anything that has an impact on our residents and our first responders, when it is being brought to you all as a concept, those discussions have to have been had. Because if they haven't and all of a sudden the fire department says that would make us make it very difficult for us for X, Y or Z reason, then we wouldn't even be sitting here tonight having this conversation. And unfortunately, that's just my personal opinion. As far as restriping, I don't believe, listening to Mr. Brown, that it's just paint. I believe it is thermofoil tape that is put down, which is different than just paint and is used on highways. It's heavy. And I think we need to really look at the cost.

I think that was mentioned. Ms. Udena? Followed by Ms. McLeod and then Mr. Richter.

Nancy Udell, 1131 North Palm Way. I'm glad to hear that the idea of taking away. Glad to hear that the idea of removing resident spots from that great location and turning them into a valet parking space. jump is not something you guys are interested in doing I was very surprised to see that on the map especially because that wasn't mentioned in the name of the item that was being discussed tonight I think it is a good idea to make the road a one way but I will say that on the map which I can't see from here but for kayakers and people who are coming up from the south to bring in a truck and take kayaks down to the ocean at the kayak loading place, you'd have to have the one-way start after that because you've got to come up from the bottom and bring the truck up and drop off the kayaks and then bring the truck back down and park in the residence spots on the south side. So if the one-way started at the bottom, that would be really difficult because you'd have to, I don't know how you'd come around. I guess you'd come around all the way from the front with the kayaks. But if the problem is just blocking that little, you know, making the two-way into a one-way, I don't think there's any reason to start the one-way down at the bottom. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Thank you. Ms. McLeod?

Please put your paddle forward.

Ramsey McLeod, 24 South C Street. I was surprised to see how much work and details were provided in this report when I wasn't even aware that the problems at the beach, so to speak, were that bad. One of my concerns is obviously the fire lane situation and our fire rescue getting up there. And if you're making a space for big trucks to park and unload, if a fire breaks out, that's gonna hamper the fire department from being able to do their job correctly. Secondly, if we're having people parking longer than 15 minutes, even pulling up and parking in the fire lane, where's our parking division? They should be right there immediately tagging that car and giving them a ticket. If people don't know you can't park in a fire lane, then they're going to have to pay to learn how to park not in a fire lane. I think further and harder enforcement of that would work. We have that little turnaround at the end of the building on the south end. Make that a designated spot where Uber or DoorDash or whatever those drivers can pull over there and park. If parking can sit there in their car with the flashers on, the UberEat guys and Dash can park there. They don't have to pull up right in front of the restaurant. So they have to walk a little bit. Maybe it's an extra five minutes before the delivery gets to the person who requested it. But we have a way to come up with other plans that aren't going to cost us all this money to make these changes. If you're going to do something right away, and as the mayor mentioned, there is no crosswalk. at the Northern Inn, and the one that was penciled in there on the map. We want to invest money right away. Let's fix that and give pedestrians a safe way to get from those parking spaces onto the proper part of where the casino building is across from the beach. That's something I would support right now. As for implementing any of these changes right away, and $390,000 just for doing what they mentioned up there, but we had to cut down what we want to do is 17 South M. You know, we're the priority of where we're spending our money, and that's where I think taxpayers have a right to know, wait a minute, I didn't even know this issue was that big. The staff already started working on it. I remember being mentioned, like Peggy said, but it wasn't put out there with, hey, this is really a little fire that's starting to grow, and we need to address it now. I thought it was just something they stick in their hat, and when we get there, we finish the beach idea, then we'll see how we can incorporate that with it. So I was very surprised this came up, and the expense, unacceptable.

Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Richter followed by Ms. Whitkin. I think Ms. Whitkin left us. I saw her go away. Okay, then Mr. Rooney is after Mr. Richter.

Good evening. Greg Richter, 1202 South Palm Lake. Thank you all very much. I liked everything that I heard from up here. You know, I saw some pretty misinformation pot stirring stuff on social media. But the one point is I don't want to give up residential parking spaces anywhere. We don't have enough up there as it is. But one thought on the valet, though, is, you know, it's not just the restaurants. If you've ever been up there on a crowded weekend, three times I tried to go to Piper's Crossing and there was not one parking space in our parking lot that day. And I've had this happen to me a couple of times in season on weekends. So there's something to look at, but you got to move those cars off that parking facility, find some place to put it, golf cart the guys back and forth. You mentioned something about the downtown valet. I said this a long time ago. We got a garage sitting over there on East Coast. Have the valets use a... golf cart system and run those cars over there because they're just taking your rights. They're taking up spaces that should be used for us. So use a, have them have to have a golf cart, make them use the space over in the garage. Thank you.

Have we done any follow-up on, you know, having the, we've made a stricter policy for valet. Have we done follow-up as to, are they using the streets or just real, not right now, but can Mr. Rooney come up? Kevin Rooney from 1310 North M Street.

I just wanted to check in. Where were these parking spots that are temporary coming from? Are they sort of removing the bike lanes that's there? Or I didn't see in the drawing where these parking spots.

You can state your state, and then if there's an answer from staff, they can answer that.

That's all I really wanted to check in with there.

You want to know if there are bike lanes?

Well, the bike lane that runs along that sidewalk, I was wondering if the temporary parking spots in that rendering, if that's what it's replacing.

There's a bike lane. Okay. Thank you. Any response?

It would shift it.

But it still exists.

Yeah, the whole point. And we could have done a larger landscaping area, those added landscaping areas, but that would have taken away from the bike lanes and stuff like that.

OK, so with just looking at the one directional, it would help the bike lane situation?

Correct.

OK, thank you. OK, so we've had all the problems. Yes. Oh, you have public comment. I'm sorry, ma'am.

No worries. I knew that. Gail Silverblatt, 414 North Ocean Breeze. In a city with limited shade, the question arises, is it necessary to remove trees and palms from the beach park to accommodate valet parking and short-term parking spaces? Yes. Before making any decisions to remove the palm trees in front of the casino, which contribute to the beachy ambiance, and the green buttonwood trees near the northern turnaround, which provide cooling effects for individuals walking from the parking lots to the beach area, it would be beneficial to explore alternative options. Next is West Blackman 241 Columbia Drive. Good evening, mayor and commissioners. I've often called the casino complex the city's flagship property. It's one of the places people associate most closely with Lake Worth Beach. So I think it deserves our highest standard of planning and care. I'm not necessarily opposed to looking at circulation changes. My concern is that we seem to be looking at one operational piece without first understanding how it fits into the bigger picture. The proposal includes a substantial investment in roadway changes, sidewalks, landscaping, signage, drop-off areas, and a possible valet area. But the backup doesn't really explain where the Ziskovich Beach planning effort stands or how this concept relates to that larger work. The valet issue is a good example of why more clarity would help. The staff report says valet could be added in the future if the commission wants it. It does not say Benny's would operate it. It does not clearly explain how many resident decal spaces would be affected. And Benny's seems to be everyone's punching bag. No mention of individual tenants is in the backup. There may be a need for valet parking for accessibility purposes. Still, people are understandably concerned about losing scarce parking, scarce resident parking for a private service. Before approving the concept, I think the city should explain whether any public parking would effectively become unavailable to the general public. And all of this is happening while larger issues remain unresolved. The pool has been empty since 2017. Delivery vehicles often sit between the casino and the ocean. The dumpster enclosure is highly visible. Those things have a much greater effect on the appearance and experience of the beach than the direction of traffic. The city holds private property owners to a high standard through code enforcement. It should hold itself to at least that same standard. And then the last comment is from Debra Robert, 127 South K Street. Good evening, Mayor and Commissioners. My comment is on the beach circulation concept plan. I believe there will have to be changes made in the future. However, we do not have a master plan or even close to a concept or full picture of what the casino and pool space is to become. I do not believe it is in the best interest of the city to dismantle and revamp traffic flow in an unfinished, unreimagined public space. Let us rather keep this plan in mind and see what parts of it are germane in future discussions when we're in the stages of devising a final comprehensive plan for the entire campus. Impacting resident parking now seems out of place with all the other issues we have to deal with as a city. It is even possible that a final master plan will render this notion unnecessary. Let's remember too that altering flow to one way will alter the way people enter from A1A, causing different turning and traffic patterns that will have to be studied. I understand the need tonight to discuss a plan brought up by staff, but I do not believe it is in our best interest to spend on studies and seek to alter what we have today with no articulate concept of what will be there tomorrow. Thank you for your service to our city. That's the final comment. I'm just requesting if Commissioner Segridge could restate his motion so I can make sure I have it correct before we move on. Sure.

Motion to disapprove the item and instruct staff to come back with direction on just purely changing the flow. So cost and idea on just purely changing the flow from bidirectional to unidirectional.

And that was seconded by Ms. May.

So, all in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Okay. We have a unanimous decision.

Motion to adjourn.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Aye. Good. See you tomorrow.