Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

4:01 p.m. and we will call to order this January 12th meeting of the uh Lake County Planning Commission. Uh we'll call Heather Lind is absent tonight. Steve Stevens here. Jason Maru is running a little bit late tonight. David J here. Ryan Hill here. And me, Joey Edwards. Roll call of the Lake County Commissioners. Elsa Thorp here. Andrew Lee, Matt Bulock are absent tonight. Any changes or additions to the agenda? Have nothing. All right. And we have approval of minutes. Is that correct? Yes.

Approval of minutes for the December 22nd, 2025 meeting. Has anyone had a chance to review those? Have any changes to make? Changes? I I wasn't here for meeting. Good. I get a motion to approve those minutes. Second. Very good. All those in favor? I opposed. Uh a note that Andy Lee has joined us. Uh and updates from staff.

Thank you. Um, so I think that some of you may be curious um to find out the outcome of the last two uh conditions that that you made a recommendation to the board of county commissioners on. Um, so I will do you want to give that update real quick? Sure.

Yeah. The one of the last ones was a Sugarloaf Mountain Ranch. It was a cup for the agricultural buildings and that was approved with the two conditions. Um the second one was the Rose Hut and Peggy's bunk house. Um and you all had added the condition about reducing the number of occupants. The board approved that with that condition added to more based upon staff's recommendation. So they're going to use the well to um for non-pottable purposes really fire strictly fire mitigation. and then um making sure that the variance is approved for Peggy's bunk house before the um bunk house is given a structural license. So just that's how the process works, but we added a condition just to underscore it. So that was approved.

That's great. And they'll have to actually make that well operable. Yeah. for their for their Yeah, the applicant not really kind of offered that up based upon that conversation that No, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. So, um the other updates that we would have is that um I sent in the email just so you could kind of see writing your terms or

Sorry, I thought I sent that to voicemail and I turned it on. Um uh so you got to see your terms in the email um uh so that you know where you're at and we have one associate member vacancies which is being advertised on the website. So if you know anybody that would be interested um please send in uh have them send in a letter of interest with their experience. We do say um on our advertisement that um even if you don't have in uh experience serving on a board such as this, having passion and and interest and investment in the community certainly is uh valuable. And I do think that we might have um received one interested party so far. Um hasn't sent in their letter yet? It seems like she believed it was like a full member position, not an alternate. So, I'm not sure if she will end up.

Okay. Okay. So, we aren't in jeopardy though at this point. We are seated with our five um regular members and so it's just kind of nice to have that alternate position filled because summer happens and we all have things going on. So, it's just nice to have um some additional capacity. So, I just encourage you to think of anybody um that you might want to let them know that that the ad is on the website. Um and I think that's really, you know, we're continuing to work on our action teams around our different topical areas for the one community project. Um and uh you know we continue to hope to be bringing um forth the the comprehensive plan in uh for adoption. Um we haven't really set on an exact date um but we're we've um think that it'll be sometime probably just after the first uh quarter of the year um that we'll be hoping to look at getting the comprehensive plan um adopted. So, still some work to do on that. Um, but we've had um a lot of engagement um around that. Um the other thing that you might all find interesting is I'm working right now on a memo um that I'll be providing. I've already given one to the board of county commissioners and I'll be giving it to the city on the status of the building permit and just kind of where we are numbers wise, how many permits, what kind of valuations we've seen. Um, and just I I track that over um a three-year period so you can kind of see where where we're trending, what's happening. Um, so I'll be uh going ahead and including you all on that update when it's ready. I think it's just good information to kind of understand um how the building department is doing and how that looks over the last few years. Um so we'll provide that information for you as well. Um the other thing is the board of

review will be having um a meeting um this coming Wednesday as we dive in. This is a big uh year for uh codes as far as fire resiliency code, building code and energy code. Um so the board of view will be meeting in this room on Wednesday night at 4:00. And I think those are all the updates that we have. Very good. Any old business to attend to? nothing for you this evening then we can jump right into training.

Great. Um so let me just talk a little bit about the format of tonight. Um so we have Casey McFersonson with us and this is a recorded version of last year's refresher. Um but we really thought it would be beneficial to go through it again. We have streamlined it a bit. Um that was a 2hour presentation and we wanted to do um an additional uh discussion just on how all of the information in the refresher applies locally. Um so we have uh condensed it into roughly an hour. Um we can um we may pause at some point if you'd like to comment on something please let us know because it is Casey's recording from at the beginning of the year last year in February. Um, but this really gives you the opportunity now to have public hearings under your belt, some legislative process under your belt. Um, and to just, you know, it's just really good to start off the year um, with a refresher. Um, I would mention that our other meeting in January, we're really going to be looking at setting priorities for the year. We're going to talk about things that are already um either legislative mandates, things that we are required to do this year and getting those kind of in a um kind of list of priorities and then other things that you all might have concerns about that we would um need to work on. We'll be asking for the board's input on that as well um at our next meeting. And um we do have an emergent issue that I think you've been kind of sensing through some of the um applications that are either in the wings and that are coming in or ones that you've already heard around different types of commercial lodging around our campground uses, our group camps, vacation lodges, those kind of things. So, um, we are going to be, uh, recommending, uh, a pathway forward and an approach to

really diving into that at our next meeting in January. So, we'll be discussing with that with you as well. So, without further ado, and trying to keep to our timeline, we'll go ahead and begin Casey's refresher agenda. So, we're going to kick it off with why plan and planning authority. So generally speaking, I would say planning helps governments to be more efficient and effective. If we know that we're going to be looking at, you know, a certain type of development, we know we have other goals. How can we work to integrate maybe achieve multiple things at once? Health community sees opportunities. If there's already a let's say comprehensive plan that says we want to prioritize open space ac whatever your priority might be then the next time an opportunity comes up there's already that generated support to take action move more quickly on that and it can prevent undesirable development. So yet again um this has been my at least five years running favorite picture for this slide and I challenge every community I talked to if you can give me a better one. I will I wouldn't ever say who it came from, but this has been my favorite for years running. So good planning can help make sure that our infrastructure or any number of other things that we're doing actually works well for the people who are going to be using it. Here's another quote that I like to keep in mind. Maybe it's helpful to you when you're out in community. I don't know if you're asked, but I certainly certainly am asked. Ah, why plan anyway? You know, just something that sits on a shelf. Well, um I like this quote a lot. Keep it in my back pocket. Who would invest in a corporation if it didn't have a business plan? No one. Right? So, the same is true for a community if it doesn't have a plan. Every successful institution whether corporation community needs a plan for your consideration. But then we do have grounding authority as well. So grounding authority for

planning is is effectively the rights of government to establish law and ordinances to preserve public order and tranquility, promote public health, safety and general welfare. So this is reserved to the states and granted to local governments through statute authority to plan in Colorado. Uh we have Colorado is a local control state. matters of local concern and locally few there are a few state statutory planning requirements and I will go through those um in a couple slides time. There have been some changes recently and I'll make sure that you're very clear on what those are. Um so we do have a few state uh statutory planning requirements and the grants of authority for land use planning. I want to highlight statutory authority as well as home rule. Um, communities will also be taking a look at their charter. A couple other comments on statutory authority. So, first off, regulations must be tied to a valid public purpose. That's what's known as substantive due process and also be enacted and implemented so that those who are directly affected have a meaningful opportunity to participate. So that's called procedural due process and we're going to talk a lot about especially procedural due process um later on in the meeting and decision making portion of the of the slides today. So another way to think about this is substantive due process and is tied to the valid public purpose. So it's like you know are are you doing something that we have authority to touch and then the procedural due process in honor of the Super Bowl coming up they have referees for you. Um the procedural due process is making sure that um I'll say for the planning commission for example that we're keeping an eye on the rules of the game and enforcing those rules consistently. Again much more on that in the meetings and decision decision- making portion of these slides.

All right here are the statuto required planning um pieces in Colorado. They're, you know, they're they're nothing to sort of look past, but they do fit on the slide. So, that's encouraging, right? We have, first off, master plans are required. That's master plans is what um what they're called in statute. Um they can also be called comprehensive plans or some communities call them something entirely different like you know, envision I think envision law one is one envision X community. Um but by statute, they're called master plans. So those are required for local governments that meet certain statutory criteria for population and growth rate. Counties have some requirements around subdivision regulations. Municipalities uh need to create free mile plans. And there are a couple here at the bottom are the new things from last year's legislative session. So first off, there are some requirements around a water element in comprehensive plans. Um, and I have a full slide on this, so I'm going to speak um at a high level just for this one. But now there's a water water supply element that's required. A strategic growth element is required for communities of a certain size. Um, and so communities that are smaller or have a negative growth rate would not be doing a strategic growth element, but others would. Um, housing responding to a recent housing needs assessment on the action plan is now required for communities who must do housing action plan which again not all and I think it's nuanced and by the way we are working on an applicability matrix for this to support communities to see if there's more nuance what exactly must be done where and why and then finally three mile plans of municipalities must what must now be included in functions of so I'm going to dig in on wait not oh maybe that's in the it's in the implementation section so I don't want

to leave you hangy let me just tell you a couple comments here um before we get to the slide on the water element I want to comment that for those of you who have been following this um um requirement formerly soft requirement it's no different from what was required beforehand so in 2020 we had to we had a requirement that if comprehensive plans included a water element then they must do a certain number of things. So consider water conservation, talk with water suppliers as they develop it, and then assess a range of water needs based on expected growth. So basically the punch line since I don't want to leave you guessing is that that um formerly voluntary element is now required. That's but more information um in the section about properties. Before we get there, let's talk a little bit about roles and responsibilities. So here we're going to start with the idea that I'm sure this feels very familiar to everyone out there. We may wear many hats, but when it comes to decision-m and running effective public meetings and public hearings, it's important to choose one at a time or be aware that you could introduce risks. We'll talk much more about that um throughout this session today. And I'm going to go over the roles for these groups here. elected officials, planning commission, board of adjustment, staff, citizens, and the applicant. So to start off with elected officials, um generally elected officials are committing policy and legislating, using that enabling authority we just talked about in the charter if applicable um to protect the public interest, appointing boards that will further the mission, providing general direction, and ongoing two-way communication. So giving them direction appointing people um and but not micromanaging role of the planning commission. This is an appointed body not elected advisory

to the elected board. They're preparing the master or comprehensive plan applying current policy and regulations providing planning and land use expertise. Even those of you who you said you're just a few weeks um new into your position still I would argue that you have planning and land use expertise. review development applications, adopt and consistently use bylaws, and regularly assess planning policies and regulations. I also want to point out, since it's a county I'm talking to, that there was a change from Senate Bill 24174, so from that last session, um there was a change in county comp plans that now mirrors the municipal section. Specifically, um it's the same authority now in the BOCC. um as far as um approving and adopting the comprehensive plan. So, formerly the statute said that it's the duty of the planning commission to prepare and adopt the comprehensive plan. Um that role is still there, but now the official adoption mirrors how it has been done in municipalities, which is that powers now with the BOCC. So, I just wanted to make sure to flag that for those of you in the their comments planning commission. So something I like to say is the planning commission is a team made happily of distinct colorful characters but don't be this teammate. So here we have a maybe some eye rolling, maybe bullying, tilting at windows, trying to go as a little ranger, seeing what you can get away with for the legend Kenny Rogers getting message of those who maybe like to see what they can get away gamble with. Um, and I would say, you know, from what I've seen, a lot of some of this behavior often can come from a good place, maybe trying to be efficient or other things like that, but they're united by being a little bit cavalier. And so the message I'd like to send here

is being cavalier undercuts credibility and can introduce liability. Again, we want to be thinking of of the decision-m process like the Super Bowl referee. What are the rules and making sure we're staying um within enforcing those not giving the under teams fans a chance to say um that there's favoritism, right? And then a few final thoughts for planning commission especially if you're new but honestly great information regardless. So I mentioned CDO is the community development office that's where I'm housed. I mentioned our commissioner web page. There's also the planetizen and APA American planning association of Colorado. Um the serves they send out great they have good web pages and send out great information um if you like getting getting your info that way. And then of course your own comp plan and regulations, your own other departments and service providers. Uh for some neighborhood groups, it really depends on um you know your community best of course. Um who might be interesting to connect with and get their perspective on the the now and the future. Um and also to consider who's not well represented especially this is a great one especially for those who are new and ask a lot of questions and then keep asking questions. One of the things that keeps me in the land use and planning game is that it changes all the time, I've never really been bored because it's always something that changes. So, while I would say all of you already have expertise and that will grow all the time, it's not really in my opinion not an area that it's not a pool that can never be filled, right? There's always new knowledge in planning and land use changing times or changing. I don't know. Okay. Word of adjustment. Um some quick comments here. It's an appointed non-elected group um dealing with appeals and variances. Positive judicial procedures.

Appeals to administrative decisions may be granted if the board finds there's an error in a decision of an administrative official and relief may be granted so long as there's no substantial detriment to the public good and without impairing the intent of the zoning resolution or recognition. So little safety valve group. I'm so glad to see that some of you are out there in the audience. You probably have other other thoughts about all the things that you do as well. This is a highle summary, isn't it? Also high level uh role of staff. So staff and consultants by the way um provide technical expertise and guidance information and training. They assist with research, write the staff review or staff report, provide notice of meetings and communicate with the applicants. Ensure good communication and offer professional opinions. lots to do, big to-do list there, staff. I also was asked um I don't know, some months ago, there was a community who was struggling with um maybe it was years ago at this point. Um anyway, there was a community who was struggling with how much authority can we should we delegate to different groups like how's our process looking? Is this how other communities are doing it or should we consider different things? And so um ever since then we've been playing with the wording information on this slide. So a few comments to that end. And let me start by saying there are lots of ways to sort of distribute um the tasks here. But generally my reaction was well the typical distribution is that there's the staff review and staff report. The planning commission you see here uh planning commission is the factfinder. they're applying the rules and giving a recommendation and the elected body is giving the final determination. That's like the typical um cadence of things. Some jurisdictions though leave more to the PC the planning commission. Um you know consider due process. So that'll be a question not to I don't mean to raise

a alarm there. Just ask your staff and hey your attorneys here too um for any more thoughts on that. But some jurisdictions do leave a lot of the planning commission um as they're preparing that final recommendation. You can also delegate to staff through broad process changes like um by write development and administrative review processes. And that's something else that a lot of communities are starting to get into. Um and then finally consider referrals when things get complex. So that yes, you're absolutely experts, but like I said, one of the interesting things is uh they're always curveballs. So if you're feeling like you're in over your head, um just remember there's information and support out there in referral processes to get comments. Citizens is to participate fully, advise appointed elected officials, ask questions, and offer input on solutions. And finally, applicants. applicants role is to learn and respect adopted rules and processes to expect a fair and predictable process not break the system communicate issues and concerns and have a realistic expectations and understanding of the role of government. But then the hope is that the communication is hey you follow our rules are likely to get support for the for the project. So reflecting on all the roles, the many cooks since they're the land use and planning kitchen. Um some of the one thing that we recommend is to regularly slow down and reflect together on how things are going. What's working well? What isn't? Where are we seeing issues emerge? Are there any trends? That could be a sign that perhaps some something in code needs to change. If you're constantly dealing with this one issue and there's confusion around it, maybe it's time to dive in and and adjust standards. We like to recommend annual meetings, especially between the planning

commission and the elected board. It's a good time to discuss together what's working well and what isn't, and a good time to make recommendations for any potential changes to policies, regulations, and standards. Okay, that was a lot of me talking and there's only one scenario question. Um, but just to get you warmed up on it, we're going to start and I'll warn you, I'm not afraid of a silence, but I don't I won't expect that you'll be a quiet group. So, diving in. Um, our first scenario question is the planning commission makes a unanimous decision, but the board overturns it, which in fact happens often. What actions could the commission take to address their concern about being overturned? A. Talk to staff for feedback. Ask for regular check-ins. B. Call the BOCC chair to find out more detail. C. Attend their next public meeting and raise the issue for discussion. D. Post a letter on social media. Make sure the committee understands the planning commission's point of view.

Real quick. Okay. So, can you go back? Okay. So, we didn't listen to We just thought we could ask this question real quick. See what you all thought. It's um and get an answer, but but we didn't we skipped over what we said last year. So, um any ideas of which would be the best? This is Leadville D, obviously.

Well, um maybe there's one that's a little bit.

It's pretty obvious. Hey, I mean, very good. We don't want to be working outside the normal channels, right? Right. And that's why we host things like this. Oh, looks like Jason's here now, too. Um, is to, you know, we want to create space and opportunity for the board and the planning commission to have that opportunity to discuss things, you know, that you're feeling, um, maybe that, um, you know, there's area of the code that needs work or looses. And so, you know, our next meeting coming up in January is really going to be focused on that quite a bit. So,

so when when she said they suggest having meetings once a year, since we have joint meetings, does that really not apply to us or do we want to have meetings outside of the normal process? So what I would say um right you know we have this single hearing process where you're in the room together more often because you share your public hearing um but I think what this look why I think it's relevant to us is that we want to make sure that we're creating those work session opportunities too. So, not that you're just meeting together in a public hearing um scenario, but that also the board and the planning commission have opportunities to um workshop on different, you know, issues that you feel like are emerging and that you'd really like to be able to work together on um and give guidance to staff on. So,

like tonight, right? Yeah. tonight and and next week or excuse me um in two weeks um that we'll you know really be bringing these forward but we we don't always want to be navigating that ship. We want to really hear from all of you on um what you think some of our workshop topics should be and what what kind of things that you generally have concerns about. So yeah,

thank you Toby meeting and raise the issue for discussion. So premeds plan your developments and hearing applications coming up uh in your area. Um the 1041 powers are areas of state interest. So kind of a local overlay of regulation, subdivision, zoning, building codes and incentives and programs. So lots and lots of tools, but to start with the biggest picture first, the community's comprehensive plan. Um, so this is what I would say is the community's vision and roadmap to implementing the future. In Colorado, most comprehensive plans are advisory um rather than regulatory, but they can be mandatory if they're adopted with sufficient detail as a regulation. Um, that's very uncommon, but is a potential. Then as I mentioned earlier again in statute they're called master plans but they're called so many things in different jurisdictions um from comprehensive to some these things are completely unique and creative but they still serve the same kind of purpose and here are the standard elements that you tend to find in a town plan. So they may have transportation, housing, hazards, natural resources, energy, economic development. Um, and then some communities too, by the way, will have will maybe not have those or have a very light touch and then they'll have like a water master plan that goes really into detail. Um, so this is when I say standard plan elements, I really just mean common and um, and sometimes they'll just reference like a lot of municipalities will just reference a county's hazardous plan and that perfectly sufficient. We have these required comprehensive plan elements in red. So now this is a call back to what we started talking about in our grounding authority section for in Colorado there's a requirement that you have a recreation and tourism

element a water supply element strategic growth maybe depending and also um incorporating and responding to a housing action plan again that's a maybe on population size so now to dive into a little bit more detail um what senate Bill 24174 uh now requires communities to include this water supply element in a comprehensive plan. And here are the things that must be there. Um so there must be a narrative description of the procedure used to develop and adopt the plan. The housing action plan again the recreation tourism element three mile plan. Again municipalities um so you can ignore that one. The strategic growth and water supply elements have a timeline associated with them. So those must be incorporated by the end of 2026 and also updated every five years. Now please don't uh be alarmed. Uh we are working on some guidance about what in the heck those things are and what to do if you're a community who maybe has an update planned but it's not exactly time for this timeline. We'll be here for you. Um we'll talk much more about how to handle that. And also um no I just want to say that there is a timing requirement now but if that is you find that very unsettling please feel free to let go of that and know that we're here to talk more and craft a path forward.

So so I just want to mention really quick that um obviously this was at the beginning of last year and so the water the growth are all part of what we're doing with one community project right now. So, um, we are set with those requirements. We also on our housing action plan, we've put in for a DOA grant to go ahead and do our housing action plan because we have our housing needs assessment. We did that kind of ahead of the game and part of um that will be updating our housing needs assessment and creating our housing action plan. So, we're on target to um have that in 26 um possibly 27, but we're going to be well ahead of that 28 date. So, just want to take a quick pause and and she's going to go into more detail, but um these are certainly things that we're already in the midst of doing. So, just just to let you know, these are all part of the one community project work that's in underway right now.

Quickly, if you're going to be updating um your plan, updating this water element, what in the world does that mean? Here are those pieces um that I was working to describe earlier. So for the water element, it must include some consultation and coordination with local water providers. It must the comp element must include water conservation policies and also estimate a range of water supplies and facilities that are needed to support potential development that's described in the plan. As I mentioned, we also do have our land use and water plan. And he's got all kinds of um resources and tools uh to support communities as they're developing or updating this element of their plan. Oh, that's a reminder of me to say what I just said. We have this web page and our staff.

Okay. And why why so much focus on a comp plan? Well, in my view, comp plans are foundational documents. Like you can't have a strong house that's got a crack foundation, right? So, this is how we capture the vision of the community and then that informs resoning requests, land use code updates, annexation requests, decisions about expanding infrastructure or the location of that infrastructure and just general overall vision for growth, development, and other things. So without that strong foundation, it just makes the other jobs all the harder. But it's not the one and only. There are a number of other long range plans that some communities have um a combination of or all of them or you know none at all. It just kind of depends. Uh but you might see sub area master plans, capital improvement plans, a separate water conservation plan. I mentioned some communities really want to drill in and do something more sophisticated. um open space hazards downtown storm run etc. There's so many other long range plans that are issue specific and um you know I'm sometimes asked well is it better to have those in the comp plan or have separate plans and my answer is I don't know six of one half the other um to me the question is do they support each other or do they conflict with each other really we when we're thinking of planning and community development we just want to make sure we're all like run in the same direction and so it's um important especially for those of you who are new on the planning commission. I would encourage you to take a look and um make sure there's consistency of vision and that supports that. So I mentioned three mile plan. If it's all right with you all being linked county, I will skip ahead since this applies only to municipalities. Um but so that you're not left wondering, I'll say it's an effort to um plan uh in the in the event of any annexation. So um so

When we're talking about implementing our long range plans, there are lots of tools um available and they can all be customized. So, I would point to policies like annexation or um water adequate public facilities programs like um are we streamlining review for anything in particular? Are we streamlining review for everything and is that really prioritizing anything at all? Um what kind of fees do we wave if any? How's that go? regulations. So, zoning, subdivision, development standards, um service provision, agreements with service providers, and our rate structures. That says a lot about where priorities are. Um and then other considerations like budget, capital improvement plans, intergovernmental agreements, our IGAS, and what I would say for any of these is take a look and consider what's working and based on what we see here, what are we incentivizing? Um I think a lot can be gleaned especially from what we decide to give streamline and review what fees we decide to wave and um you know what kind of fees we attach to uh development is a lot about what we're incentivizing and what we want to see be built. Now again pulling from the big sort of statewide seat of trends across the entire state. There are some bullets about trends that we see in planning lately and some of them are a little bit older than others but um so I would say generally the trends we see our interest in planning for an aging demographic public health mobility integrating hazards um planning for and protecting a sufficient water supply and also quality creating opportunities for housing strategy towards economic diversification considering social equity inclusive engagement and fiscally sustainable infrastructure. And I want to take a moment, actually a slide, and

um touch on what in the world I mean by fiscally sustainable infrastructure. Um so we had this uh group come and give us a presentation. They're consultants called Urban 3 and they call themselves geo accountants. And so something I love that they say is much like your accountant, they say, "Hey, we don't care if you're going to if you want to vote. We don't care if you buy a speedboat or a renew. will just tell you what it's going to do with your budget. Um, take that approach. And so that's really the intent here is they analyze communities and look at infrastructure costs over the long term. And what this slide and this big red arrow is showing you is that um they work across the nation, including in Colorado. And what they've seen here as well as elsewhere is that for example, a culde-sac style development pattern is about 1.8 eight times as expensive as a traditional grid um to maintain in the long term. And again, that's not a judgment. It's just a budgeting question. So the practice pointer here is that community design does carry varying costs. And so the key is just to consider how to budget for the associated costs on both short and long-term timelines. Lots of interest in analyzing that recently. and for me anyway, fascinating to watch and I promise to continue sharing anything that we learn along the way. Okay, now we're going to move into meetings and decision making. Um, this section has the most um scenario question, so get your brains revved up. But my first question is, do your meetings ever look like this stuffy or do they look like this? Which one resonates more? Never does, right? Surely not in Lake County. This is my favorite. Maybe you're not a favorite picture. After that poll in the middle of the sidewalk, that's my second

favorite picture. All right. So, you know, um public meetings and hearing can go a number of different ways. And I'm going to focus my comments on based on types of actions. So, I'm going to focus mostly on legislative actions, which are reflecting public policy. So things that are having a permanent or um permanent or general character not restricted to an individual. That's very different from quasi judicial processes. That is where uh we're thinking about determination of rights or obligations of an individual use of legislative rules to make determination on an application. What did you first public meetings? So this is when you're wearing your legislative hat. The goal of a public meeting is to seek input to champion broad inclusive public participation. Explain the context, the big picture, the process and timeline. Demonstrate tactic listening. Limit jargon and acronyms. Uh that can have to do with um that can promote protecting people through process rights, making sure that they actually have access to information. They're not confused by jargon and acronyms. As you've already seen, I violate that rule sometimes in my slides with acronyms. uh a crutch. Um but also in a public meeting, another goal is to help make it relevant. Why care? What does this matter? Act as a community ambassador and remain courteous no matter what. Public hearings are a different animal. This is wearing the quasi judicial hat and has lots more due process protections. Um so some comments here. Announce the rules in advance and enforce them consistently. Remain unbiased while hearing evidence. show you're listening. So, there's some overlap, right, with what we're trying to do in a public meeting. Um, it's important, especially in a public hearing to have a strong chair and a supportive board that we're staying on task and avoiding tangents. We're

getting input only during the notice public hearing. We're asking questions designed to get at does this application meet our standards and we're making careful motions. So, I'm going to dig in on on some of those ones now the next several slides. um what makes a meeting effective. I would offer that everyone had a meaningful opportunity to participate, that people feel they were heard, relevant issues were addressed related to our standards, our adopted standards. Uh there were no long tangents. Um you can always start with the staff report. That's a really slick move, I think. Um commission's decision was clear what why and it was reasonably defensible. Well, the chair um is is very important. So, the chair is I don't I don't know. I like to play with different metaphors, but today I decided to train the doctor. Um so, the idea of a strong chair is someone who's looking at the timetable. They're saying, "All right, is there a board? Are we on the right track? You know, what's coming up next?" um they're setting the right tone, ensuring civility, being a strong listener and a timekeeper, and they're um on point with the not handing over control of the meeting. Um I also like to comment how some people maybe think you make decisions and I committed to moving past my applause meter. I know it's a little dusty and so I put in this one with mics, but I don't know. stubborn and I don't want to get rid of it. Um, but the key is um how you actually make decisions can be quite different from how people maybe think you do. It's not really about what's popular or at least it shouldn't be because then we're introducing liability uh potential. Instead, it's whether the project in a judicial decision making process meets the standards. So, we're doing that factf finding. We're feeling like it

trends. We're applying our standards and it's not about what is most popular. Some tips on grooming meetings. Provide information on procedures ahead of time and repeat if needed throughout the meeting. You can keep your own cheat sheet. Some even um will like post a big uh big font list of of rules um on the wall in their meetings. Heard that word. Um thank people for their testimony. Sounds small but can carry a big impact. Watch for non-verbal cues. Um I like to include this on here. It's okay to acknowledge that my decisions can feel political and personal. Um, if this I would say again recognize that I'm coming from a statewide vantage point and uh sort of maybe curate this according to how your community would respond. For some communities, they have told me just making that acknowledgement taken on the heat out of a touchy conversation and then they were able to move back to the standards and apply to them proceed. Others that can pull things up. So, you know your community best. Um, show extraordinary patience and consider your intent. Really, that's meaning when you're asking a question. And hopefully that's pinging in your memory um that the intent ought to be related to getting information on the extent to which the application meets adopted users. On the flip side of the coin, some uh common hurdles and mistakes that we tend to see um and care about not being prepared, not asking enough questions, so not fully developing that record of decision. Um asking for a vote on the audience that hands over control, but also by the way um doesn't stick to the adopted um standards. Um and also we don't know that that's a representative group of community anyway. Um, another hurdle, showing bias before a decision is made. Offering design ideas or other

suggestions. In other words, attempting to be the architect or the applicant. So, again, thinking back to that first slide in the section, which hat are we wearing? And sticking to that lane. This one's so important. Get it on slide. Avoid let's make a deal. there is a strong um pull sometimes to try and be the architect at the dis and make modifications to try and make a project better that can introduce all kinds of risks. Um so the main question here is does the project meet your standards or not? And then developing a full record of decision that supports um that supports the ultimate decision and outcome there. Um another set of comments so important they get their own slide. Social media as advertised. I feel a little awkward on this topic because social media is such a um pervasive kind of tool um and important and can be really effective. Um so what I would say though is consider the front page newspaper test. So would you feel happy if whatever it is was splashed across the front page? Do not use social media to argue, condemn, attack, or even set the record straight. There's already a record of decision. Leave it to staff uh for these kinds of communications. Again, we talked earlier in the role section about they give the notice, they do those kinds of things. Um establish a discussion, a social media policy if you don't have one already. And then I wanted to mention there's some interesting I mean I feel like it took a little it's settled down a little bit, but starting around 2019 we started to see some interesting case law bubbles. So there is something out of the fourth circuit that said that a commissioner's Facebook page was a tool of governance. And now this was a obviously very specific situation, but I include this bullet here as a reminder that depending on how we're using social media that can make our presence there kind of a

different thing maybe than we intended, which is why it would be great if you don't already have a social media policy to consider um sit or make you do and you want to review it. So, I would say sit together. Your attorney's there who maybe has some thoughts. Sit together, consider what you have or what you don't. Consider updating it if you do. Um, and how you want to proceed. The best way to handle policies like this is to set them up ahead of time. And one thing I'll say is, um, the most heartbreaking situations when I've seen communities and planning commissions, especially trying to put a policy in place, is when they're already dealing with trying to clean up a mess. So, best to set it up ahead of time and stick to it well rather than wait until someone takes an action you wish wouldn't have happened and now we're having to put something in place. That's more awkward than I get when I talk about some goodness.

All right. Um, decision- making and defensible procedures for hearings. Um, it's critical to um, make sure that you're aware of what your procedures are and that you're following them consistently. That means providing notice, an opportunity to be heard, having clear rules, following your process and rules, ensuring you've got good findings of fact. I have more information on that coming to you shortly. Um, have your um having unbiased and timely decisions and complete records. So, let's take this a little bit further. Um, so now we're thinking especially about motions. Um, I'll say about motions that well-prepared motions take some effort. Uh, but they explain to the applicant and the audience um, and hopefully not a judge, but potentially, you know, something challenge the judge, um, how the decision was made. We recommend that you agree on procedures that will be used for meetings and for motions. And one recommendation I do like to make, especially as you Zoom members, is to try and rotate who makes the motion um, just for your practice. Um, some other thoughts on motions and on how to avoid getting tripped up. A couple of comments. Before voting as one complex motion, you can vote on positions one at a time. You can move to approve or recent look through the staff report includes that in your findings. It's a great move as well. And then some comments on findings of fact. Um, so findings of fact are your factual foundations for your conclusions as to whether your standards are met. So, I like to call these your legal footprints or breadcrumbs. What happens in this decision? Um, facts must address the standards, ask questions designed to get evidence related to those standards. Um, they also show that the adopted process was followed. Uh, they um that the decision informed the comprehensive plan. That's part of um sort of the narrative. Make

sure that you're not making decisions based on opinion or guts. Again, we're going back to the standards and as a tip, you can raise highlights from work sessions and include those. That's a way to include that in your findings of fact. So, one thing that I would comment on is that, you know, if challenged um then the the ultimate decision will be sort of deferred to um unless it was arbitrary. So these findings of fact are really your um your sort of protection to show all these things that I just mentioned to show that yeah, you do have standards and you followed them. You did sort of um ask question design to get you evidence about that. So here's what we did. Here's how our decision was reasonable and then you would be um your decision would therefore be deferred to. So really important to focus on these findings of fact and make sure you're developing a great record of decision. Okay, final tips for decision- making. A couple comments I would say are detailed deliberation informs better motions the community and hopefully not a judge but a judge on how a decision was made. So therefore avoid vague or non-specific motions. In other words, what someone made in the future or maybe even not that far in the future know what decision was made and why. Watch for bias against difficult people and look for legitimate points and solutions. Don't be afraid to say I don't know. Um I say that in I don't I don't even know what to say. half majority meeting of these kinds of workshops even um again because much like communities and development applications every everyone's a little bit different right so um it's okay to both be an expert and also say I don't know you don't need to explain or apologize for the process for example to a minority voter and this is so important I put it in bold a lot of the times you know when when we're hearing

about processes that sort of went ary or um or a PC that kind of ventured away from the adopted standards, it's because a lot of the times they're worried about people not liking the outcome. But if people don't like the outcome, they're likely to attack the process. So that's why the best way to sort of protect yourself is to make sure that you're running a great process. All right. Now, a quick um case study on public engagement. This visual comes from uh Lakewood. They have they launched this digital engagement process called Lakewood Seeks and um this was I want to say this in 2019. It could have been 17. I forget now, but this is a summary of some of their findings from moving to more online engagement. And I want to be clear, I'm not recommending everyone does it like this. Um I just I'll ultimately get to a point, so bear with me. Uh so they decided they wanted to do some more online engagement. Um and they documented the outcomes and I said all right so before we launched this we had their usual I think they did Thursday night something like that um play commission meetings and so they documented their participation by age other demographic categories how many people what percentage of the community etc. And then when they went online they had amazing results. they dropped their um cost of participation or cost of meeting by participant um like incredible amounts and they had a lot more engagement not only engagement that more reflected their community. it was a higher percentage of their community, which by the way, they saw about 800% increase um in partication, but also I put a red arrow on this bar chart here because one of the things that I thought was most interesting was the time that they received comments. when they moved to online, they had a lot of commenting,

you know, maybe right around people's lunch hour and tapered off a little bit, but some good discussion throughout the day, then a huge valley right from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m., which is when they were holding their inerson meetings.

So, um, I think that kind of speaks volumes. And again, this isn't I don't think that this is like the one to rule them all. Um it's just meant to provoke some thinking on the timing and the approach of community engagement and what may be going on in people's lives and how um how to consider providing different options. Okay. To conclude some these comments about decision- making, I would offer that a popular decision is not always good. Good isn't always popular. But when we're thinking about land use and planning and the role especially with planning commission, it's your responsibility to protect current and future public health, safety, and welfare even if it's not popular. Tough job. Okay, so now enough from me. Uh let's move into some more discussion and do a few scenario questions together. So to explore some of what we just talked about, here's a local development preference updated plans to the staff the day before the hearing. There's tremendous pressure for staff to allow the applicant to make last minute changes. What should staff do? A, quickly forward the new information to the planning commission members or elected um and amend the staff report. B, explain to the developer why this last minute action is not appropriate. Course B explain that the locally adopted process is the one that must be followed to ensure staff and referral agencies and boards missions have time to review.

Absolutely. Anybody disagree with C? Okay. Great. Okay. How about this one? An unpopular development application would likely go over a lot better if they had a better design. you decide to impose a condition of approval, a design standard um that's not adopted because you know column components and by the way it'll make the project better. Is this a worthwhile and pragmatic solution? Well, you can just answer yes or no. You don't have to go back. Oh, okay.

No, cuz we're not designers. Yeah. Okay. Um and county hasn't adopted um adopted because you know home opponents and by the way it'll make the project better. Is this a worthwhile and pragmatic solution? Okay. How about this one? You've been so busy you didn't get a chance to review your packet before the hearing. That never happens. Right now's always prepared. Uh what should you do? A just don't show up. Contact staff to find out if there will be a qu for quum, get their advice. C, email the other board members um before the meeting to get their thoughts on how you should vote. D call the chair and see.

Yeah. Okay. C, right? Yes. That's right. That's right. That's the one. So, anybody think anybody think it's not B? Okay. Moving on. Stop. A citizen in the audience starts asking the applicant questions. Is this acceptable? A. Yes, you can't stop or hinder free speech. Or B, no. Questions must be directed or raised to the border commission to maintain control of proceeding. Okay. Anybody disagree with me? We have trouble with that one sometimes, but yeah, absolutely. It is explained in our opening statement as well.

Yeah. And and another good point for having a strong chair who can redirect those questions. An opponent of a project challenges a time limit. I hear about this one a lot, by the way. Um demanding the full time she needs to provide her testimony. What should the chair do? A, thank her for her testimony and remind her there is a time limit which must be followed consistently and fairly. B go ahead and give her another minute. see allow her to see the title and only if others in the audience will give her their title.

So that one I think might have a couple different answers. You know I think you have to kind of go with the flow a little bit, right? So anybody disagree that you know you try to remind them we always give them the warning. Um but sometimes inevitably somebody needs another minute to try to adhere as best you can the week. Sometimes B happens too. Would you all agree that okay, let's see how your response gets spicy. Um, it becomes clear that the planning commission must deny a project. The applicant feels she's not been treated fairly and implies she may sue if her project isn't approved. What should the planning commission do? A, approve the project, but with several conditions you expect she'll not be able to meet. B, be sure the motion needs to deny is clear. The staff report and discussion lays out which standards were not met. Or C, deny the project, but then have the chair follow up after um to explain why it had to be denied and make sure she feels heard.

Again, pretty clear. I think everybody would agree with Be. Um but I will mention that this is this is something that you know your staff hears um behind the scenes. So, you know, we are um so when we get to our portion, we'll just talk about how we really work very hard on all the things that we're talking about. This is a good time to point out that seat can get you into a lot of trouble later on, too. You really do not want to go back and revisit that with the applicant. Anybody. Right. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Very good point. Okay.

Now, we'll talk about legal and ethical issues and that joint process. I'm glad that that came up because please know that the way some of the scenario questions are written are a little different but still I think applicable at least I don't know educational again um we're going to be thinking about differences between legislative type actions and quasi judicial type actions and I also wanted to mention maybe some of you were thinking hey haven't you haven't talked about them all is there also administrative actions no I have Um so just to spend a moment there um to consider a fuller spectrum of action. So we have legislative there's more discretion in decision-m bigger impact of public comments quasi judicial is more in the middle and administrative is where we have much less you know there's less impact of public comments really directly related to because there's so much less discretion in decision- making. It's really just about um almost robotically applying certain requirements and moving through your process. So if you'll remember that was one of the um options on that slide about delegation of roles that um using administrative processes more and there are pros and cons to everything of course um but using administrative processes more can be uh an efficiency approach and is very appropriate for things where staff can handle there's not much um discretion and decision making um the other way to visualize legislative versus I do show is um master plans or comp plans or legislative type actions also comprehensive zoning or zoning text amendments. It gets a little squishy with peace meal reasonings because of sort of a nuance and how they're able to be challenged makes them also sort of judicial and then clearly quite judicial when we get to special exceptions

varants subject approvals or permit issuance. So clearly that's to denote the person or property and fly. All right, here we are. X part. We've already been talking about it. Um, this is a lengthy definition and yes, I am going to painstakingly walk us through it. Um, there's a lot going on, but it's just too important. So, exparte contact is any written or verbal communication that's initiated outside of a regularly noticed public hearing. It's happening between an official with decision-making authority and one or more of the parties, but not all the parties about a subject that is under or about to be under consideration by that official that seeks to influence or present information about that subject. So, that's a mouthful, but expertise is pretty important. Um, the goal here is to preserve public confidence and due process. So the board or commission should ensure that the public and interested parties have the opportunity to know and respond to all information so that we all are playing from the same playbook but um as that board is making its decision. So, next step, what do we do? Um, if someone attempts exparte, um, this happens a lot. Like you've already mentioned, you're out in the community. People know what your role is or they learn what your role is. And boy, do they have thoughts. Um, so, you know, we tend to give rather conservative guidance in this in these sessions. Um, so talk more amongst yourselves, talk to staff, talk to talk talk to your attorney. But what we tend to say is stop the person, explain why the contact is inappropriate, disclose the contact first to staff, then again, meaning recuse, leave the room, maybe um consider adopting formal procedures. Now, um, into some examples of ways to deal with this. Uh, Chippy County has an explanation on their website for those who might happen upon it or they can

point people to, yeah, go check out more information on our website. Um, how do you know when um, an application is received and you can no longer discuss it? So, here's an example from Littleton. I'm I'm not I'm searching my memory, but coming up short on what you all do. Um, but here's an example from Littleton. their staff sends out a notice to the planning commission as soon as they receive an application. So obviously that's timestamped and they consider that as when something is about to be under consideration um because that's a little bit of a fuzzy area and um Colorado attorneys disagree on what that means and so the really the important thing is to follow what your attorney says um so that'll be the thing to do. So, that's an example of how Little 10 has decided to draw that line. Others do it a little differently. Um, okay. Ethical scenario. You're on a site visit before a hearing and an owner or rep meets you just to let you in the gate, does not talk with you, but does shadow you, and you're pretty sure one of the neighbors has seen you. What do you do? A, you don't need to stir up suspicion. You didn't talk with them. So, fine. um it's not as hard. B, disclose it at the hearing um that they let you in but you didn't discuss the project and proceed to vote. Called staff ahead of time to give them a heads up and get advice. D. Uh just don't do that ever again. No more sight.

B or C. I thought we weren't supposed to do our own investigations. So,

no, you're really supposed to make and you know, and that came time review, but you really on a quasi judicial process, you need to make your decision on the evidence and testimony that you hear at the public hearing. And so, yes, you should rely on staff um to present that information to you within the public hearing. We have in the past um I don't know if anybody um we have done site visits um and so we have all gone as a group. We've met here. We've had recording information. We have a script that we we read um and it is part of the record. So we have but we we do it as a group and we really control it. We control the information um and that is and the amount of talking that goes on and and we provide a lot of guidance but we have gone forformational purposes. We did it on um the bird's eye gravel pit um application. There was an a gravel pit that was um proposed out on Highway 91. It was denied. Um but we went as a group to that. We went down to the Southern Fire Station as a group um because we thought that it would be beneficial for those um applications. I think we've done a couple others, but we really work with the county attorney's office to make sure um that we are um securing the record and um ensuring due process. And so we we really structure that with help from the county attorney's office. We have done it before when we think that there's a really um benefit for going and being able to put eyes on the site as part of the hearing process.

What would you add to that?

I think that's exactly right. I mean, they're usually highly choreographed. I mean, you're you do it within the context of of a meeting. Generally, it's noticed and and people areware well aware ahead of time what's going on. um you wouldn't want to go out yourself and just do it on your own, but with that context that described, it's part of the record. It's it's totally acceptable. So, moving into conflicts of interest, big picture, there's a conflict of interest when you're a member of the governing body. You have a personal or private interest in the matter proposed or pending before you. Um, if you do have a conflict of interest, Colorado law requires you to do all the following disclose to staff and at the hearing. Do not vote. Do not attempt to influence the votes of others. Uh, there's an exception, and my notes are hidden from me. Um, maybe. But there is an exception. If you're in a bind, which is the body cannot act without that person participating, then there is sort of a safety valve where you have to write. Um it's like handwriting in advance of the hearing to the secretary of state I believe. Um so if you get into that situation again go to staff and they'll know how to direct you. Um but the point of that except on this slide line or slide well slide is just to let you know that if you do get into a bind when there's a conflict and you just can't act you don't know if there's a way forward. There is very well there is a way forward. Okay. Um, looking at the time, I'm going to move us rather quickly when these ethical scenarios come up. Um, but I do just want to touch on the points that they're making. So, an applicant claims one of the council members has a conflict because he always votes no on her project. That council member should not vote on this project because of the appearance of a conflict and the

importance of due process. True or false? There's more to that story. I feel like Do you want to go back to the question real quick? I'm going to turn this one over to Matt. I think it'd be better if you gave um some guidance on this because I'd rather Okay, I just got to read the scenario. I was an email here. Uh, so if you had a quorum otherwise, would it be wise to recuse yourself on that?

You know, conflicts are there's statutes that govern conflicts. I don't know whether Lake County has sometimes municipalities and local governments enact their own um rules around conflicts which can be really helpful especially in smaller communities. Um, but generally a conflict defined by statute is not what most people think it is. It's it's it's generally a financial interest in the project. And and a lot of lay people sort of conflate conflict with a lot of things that aren't really backed by what a legal conflict necessarily is. And you know, in a small community, you're going to run up against quote unquote conflicts constantly. I mean, it's just inherent with a small community, but but legally um it's really, you know, you got a family member or something that's the applicant or you have a direct financial interest in in the project has be clear conflicts.

Are we going to talk about this also?

Um a a bit. I think that um so I would defer this question to you um Matt. What if there is a perceived, you know, conflict or bias? um you know this person let's say um also you know so maybe it's not it could it'd be hard to determine that there would be a financial benefit but what if um again as we're in a small community let's say you're just outside of a notification area you know so you have a property and you weren't within the 500 or 2500 ft um radius and um what if there is a perception by the applicant that somebody that sits on the planning commission or the board has a bias because of the proximity of their a negative bias based on the proximity of um the property they own. Do you think that that is how would how would you advise us in a situation like that?

Um well on conflicts I always advise folks it's you know especially with elected it's it's always their decision. you know, certainly counsel them. Um, you know, and you really need to look at the whole situation, too, and have a sense of what's going on. If if if if you think it's going to pass or fail without you making a vote, it's like, why would you even put yourself in that situation, just, you know, step away. Um, if if you think it's going to be close and you don't know where the votes are going to shake out, I think you you make a record. uh you you say why I can look at this fairly impartially and why I'm not conflicted. I don't have a financial inference and you just you just build a record that you don't have a conflict and you you know you acknowledge again like they said earlier that you know it's okay to acknowledge you know I understand you may think this but you know I don't think I have a conflict here I think that's address guidance because in a small community

question is that's something we do you know it does it does you know in thinking in um your role and and we're a small geographic area. Okay. I had one thing. So Matt, would it be a reasonable if you were within the mailing notification area that would be maybe the defining line? I don't even know if that's legally a conflict to be honest. Perception certainly it's always going to be there. I mean

and it's going to be up to that individual person who thinks you have a conflict whether you live 500 ft away or a mile away you know it's going to small community it's going to impact you almost every project and probably going back to making sure that the findings are based in the code and the facts. So um here curious. Would you advise to disclose that if you were in the notification area as a commissioner for instance? It would probably be wise. It doesn't hurt anything. You can disclose anything. So absolutely.

I think it just shows, you know, just being conscientious and careful.

So great because he always wants to know on her project that council member should not vote on this project because of the appearance of a conflict and the importance of due process. True or false? of this. You're convinced one of your fellow planning commission members has a conflict. What do you do? A talk with that member at least a few days before the hearing. B. Set up an inform informal meeting with a few other members. See if they can help you explain this conflict to the person. C. Talk with your staff for guidance. D. Raise your concerns in the meeting before that proposal is heard. So, I will say this has come up for me as staff um that somebody's approached me before that's been on one of the boards um concerned about a fellow member. So, I I would say, you know, this is something that that I during my tenure in in the county and I worked with um I referred it on to the county attorney's office. So um to they felt strongly that someone should have disclosed some information um as part of of the hearing process. So if you do approach me because I think one of the answers is C. Um actually I think the only one up there that would be okay would be C. And so just so you know this is something that I would be looking for Matt's assistance with. Um, I don't think that we can just just as much as the applicant had a perception, I don't think that your fellow PC members automatically get to determine for you whether or not um you have a conflict. And so I think it would go back to what Matt was saying for you to be able to be your own gatekeeper and your own kind of setting your own ethical compass on this. So

yeah, I mean I think that's right. I think yeah I mean communication always goes along encourage folks to be open you know transparent talk talk to each other it happens I see numerous times where another of your board members will think you know they think you're going to be the deciding vote or whatever and they're some spectre Great. Okay. Open meetings. Um, some quick comments here. So, we have a fun time. I

I think the other thing just in being board members in general, you know, sandbagging is never a good idea just to come in to a meeting and and sort of not give somebody advanced notice of something serious that you're going to raise. So, it's always good to, you know, address that ahead of time because it won't won't go over well if you just bring it up for for anybody, including yourself.

Um, I would expand on that just a little bit and and remember that we're your staff and we're here to help you. So, if you have something um that you received the staff report to that point to and you think that there's something you're concerned that wasn't addressed, um if you can give us a heads up, if you can work with us to make sure whatever that issue is before we get into that setting, it gives us um the opportunity to look into it deeper with you and and and do the research, too. So, I would, you know, just add on that, you know, we're really here to make sure that you have what you you need in order to make informed decisions. So, um, just just let us know. We're we're your staff.

Public notice is required. So, you all already touched on this um earlier talking about site visits, but um public notice is required for meetings where formal action occurs, public business is discussed. Hint hint um or a quorum is present. I guess also two hint hints that one from the earlier discussion. Um, minutes are required when informal action occurs. And a suggested rule of practice, again, in these trainings, we get like real conservative just by way of protecting you all in your processes. Um, so suggested rule practice, just keep everything open, notice, minutes for formal action. Why? Public policies, public business. Um there are lots of ways that um I've heard of communities handling this kind of a thing, including some even having like a social calendar um so that it can be like public when like don't be alarmed a couple members are going to be at this wedding by the way if that's come up before. Okay, digging in. After a rough public hearing, the planning commissioners agree to grab a beer to relax and unwind. Any issues or concerns? A this could be seen as a public an unknown public meeting at which uh they may have discussed public business. B the perception could be this is where the real work gets done and decisions are made. C it's okay after a public meeting but not before a public hearing.

Okay. Any thoughts about that one? That one's kind of a good one to know. Anybody disagree with me? Envy.

Yes. Yeah. Envy is why, right? The perception, right? That that you know, just kind of an automatically assumed thing that you must be speaking about county related business. So, okay, great. And how much more time do we have? I'm trying to watch our time. I have a little bit. We have four minutes. Okay. Okay. Awesome. as public business. B, the perception could be this is where the real work gets done. Decisions are made. C, it's okay after a public meeting but not before a public hearing. Okay, nicely done. Um, just a little bit left here in our time together. The Colorado Governmental Immunity Act protects government officials when acting within the scope of their duties. However, there are ways to lose your immunity. uh prejudging a matter. Some of you are having earlier comments in your head about not coming into the room prejudging things because you can lose your immunity. So prejudging a matter engaging in exparte contact making a decision that violates established laws. It kind of gets worse. accurately on this book would be your authority. Ignoring or going against publicly given legal advice and ignoring or act outside the bounds of established procedures or ordinances. So all that's to say adhere to the process. Um and that helps to ensure that all

Okay, let's go ahead. Um as long as the elected officials need to reconsider. Yeah, let's skip. Yeah, let's skip that one. Do you want to skip this one? Yeah.

Really best practice and solid while we keep um hope you don't mind prejudging of a project before it comes to the board. I should I feel compelled to mention um that I hope you don't mind, but we talk about um Lake County and Lake County Build Partnerships a lot. By the way, it's like a well we keep returning to just because um just in case this is news to anyone, a lot of the things that you all do are really best practice and solid. Um so we're constantly talking about you guys early. Um, and you have gotten I love watching people react when I talk about your combined um, process and it seems to blow a lot of minds that just didn't even know that that was a thing. And I always end my comments by reminding them they should go talk to their attorney because I know that you all did a lot of work to make sure you have the right script and like everything was lined up um, so that it works. But yeah, you mentioned that and I think um, it's not my memory failing. There was one other community who was looking at adopting it. And I can't remember who it was at the moment. So hopefully I do. I'll let you know.

Okay. I was a way to end it. Okay. And I have just I'm going to be really pretty brief, but I just thought it'd be good to say, okay, let's look at our local practice. Let's just talk about that um fairly quickly here and kind of just um finish up. So go ahead and go to the first uh or you can go to the slide. Let's start the present. go to um

slideshow go to slideshow at the top and then it'll it'll start in a presentation mode and then from the beginning. There you go. Okay. So, first or you can go ahead and go. Um so, just our planning commission is made up of five regular members and two associate members otherwise sometimes known as alternates. Um you know, our general meeting dates are second and fourth Monday. I know you all know this by now. Um, next we at our next meeting we're going to do our appointments. Our three positions on the planning commission are chair, vice chair, and secretary. Secretary doesn't really tend to do anything because we provide um reporting secretary as staff. Um, but bylaws do call for it. So, in the event we wouldn't have someone here to do take on the secretary duties, we would just defer to whoever that person was that night if staff needed some help. Um, a quorum is three members. Um, in-person attendance is obviously not absolutely required, but we just um it's so helpful. Um, work sessions are a little easier to, you know, have people online with us, but when we have public hearings, if there's any way possible to to be in person for public hearings, it just um really is is best practice. But again, we understand that there are other commitments. We understand you're amazing volunteers on the planning commission and so we we want to make sure that if a hybrid option gets you participating in our process, we want you there. So we just encourage and participation whenever possible. Um as you know you have threeear terms. Associate members um can be appointed as void of voting members um at the discretion of uh the chair and um I think you said that your appointments are three years. We will be um I just am getting ready to send over to the board of county commissioners all of our boards where they're at, but the the um planning commission is great um because we just need that additional alternate

um member and then we'll be full um in case we need um to fill any vacancies. Okay. So, some resources that you probably already are aware of um you know the comprehensive plan exciting to um getting ready for our first ever uh um multi-jurisdictional plan that will have the um city in it as well. So, it will have a three- mile plan in it because that requirement they were talking about in the that Casey was talking about will be in there because um we have to do both jurisdictions. Our website is um a great tool. Business cards I'm going to talk about in just a minute. And then of course the department is always here and available for you at whenever you need us. Um next slide. So what are some of those Lake County best practices that Casey was giving us credit for? So I just want to um hit on some of those. We have um in 2022 we created the community development team. Um so this is made up of uh review agencies and departments and it gives an early development um look for uh concepts for developers that come into the office and have some type of conceptual plan. We get them in front of the community development team early so that we can start talking about you know what are our expectations? What does the process look like? What's our community identity? what are our needs as a community and what kind of things are we going to ask of that development. So, we do that very early. That happens before we even have our pre-application meeting. So, what it's resulted in is um some of our members that have been on the planning commission um before said, "Wow, applications are looking better and things are going better." because we've had this kind of u level setting um communication and we get everybody there whether that's um Leville Lake County Fire Rescue, the districts,

Parkville, Leadville Sand um uh C dot, you know, whomever we're going to refer that application to. Um we get a just like a prelook at it. So, it's almost like a pre-conultation meeting which really um development really appreciates. And so we think it it just it just makes it a a more efficient process. Um all of our land use processes there are checklists for we created these in 2022 as well. Um and so these specifically go through every single type of land use application there is and they give them exactly what is required for the application. Um so it's really transparent and predictable. We also have the opportunity then to say oh gosh you're going to have to do um a geotech study. So, let's here are the three geotechs in our area that do this. You're going to need some surveying work. You don't have a survey or here's resources in our area. You need an engineering firm. Whatever it may be, then we can help um kind of give them some guidance. We don't just ever point out one. Obviously, we talk about three or four different companies that do work within our area. Um website access. We had a slight hiccup for just a little bit while we had to work with our state requirements on accessibility, but now um all our applications are back online and um so it is a a great communication tool that we continue to work on. our joint public hearing process. As you know, this is um very unique and kind of blows the mind like Casey said of other people that we've worked really hard to create this single hearing process, but it really supports development when um it's it helps that streamlining um goal that we've had with economic development and it also supports a smaller staff because we don't have to manage two public hearings. So, um it really is kind of unique and and it's working well, but we've worked really hard to make sure that um that it runs smoothly. Um business cards. So, we

create I don't know if some of you still have them, but we're in the midst of um redesigning them and ordering them. These are kind of your exparte communication buster. So, what we um give to you is a business card that you can carry on you and basically we're calling the the Lake County values your input and it provides where um how to get the application um information, what the agenda and meeting information so they can participate or find the agenda and then CPD's contact information. So, when you're in those moments at the grocery store and somebody's like, "Oh my gosh, Joey, I've got to talk to you about that crazy application. and you've got to hear my side of the story here or think about this before you vote on it. You have something at the ready to give to people um that you can carry in your wallet or have on you. Um and more often than not, I would imagine now for you for you of that this has been your first year, you're encountering those um opportunities where people are trying to have communication on or have questions. So, it's just a a good tool to kind of help you have to be able to have those um something to let them know we really value them and a and a way to get them the information they need. Um our opening scripts, you're all familiar with them. They're designed specific to whatever type of application we have. It explains the structure of the public hearing, tells explains how we're going to receive um public comment, gives an opportunity to consider at every hearing if there should be any kind of disclosure made. Um so I would say exparte communication is what we ask for, but it would also be an opportunity for you to recuse yourself from a file or say you have a conflict. So we prepare a spot within the script to just um make sure that that opportunity. So you're thinking about that. Um and and it really brings into focus that we are making decisions based on the approval

criteria and so that our findings are based in those. Um the staff report we record this on with the decision and I'm going to talk about that a little bit um right at the end. But to really make sure that we're going to help to create a complete record. Every decision includes the staff report. I can't tell you how many times I've gone back historically and tried to figure out what was the basis of the conditions of the conditional for an existing conditional use permit and I am going back through archives of information to try to figure that out. This creates at the ready um a basis of how those findings were made and where those um conditions came from and it also helps create a complete record. Um so we do the annual training and priority setting. That's what we're doing right now. go ahead and go um application materials. So, as soon as we accept an application, we create what's called an overview sheet. And I know you've received these in the past. The overview sheet is also posted on our website and it gives a link to the Google doc drive where we keep all of our information on a file, everything that's been received from the applicant and we build that file out as as we get in referral information and different pieces of information. So, we continue to add to that file and it is in real time the best place to see just kind of what has been submitted applicationwise. This is um to let you know um when we take one in and we're setting it, we we advise you, but this is really um a a hopeful great communication way with the public um to make sure that they have access to that information um as soon as it's been accepted. Staff reports. Um, I'll talk about that a little bit when I go through one. So, you keep going. Um, what to do before quasi judicial. I don't even have ID to say anything after what you've had. You know, just review the materials. Reach out to us. Reach out to us. Reach

out to us. If you ever have a concern over something, something hasn't been in your thought that we didn't spend enough time on something and you want more information, let us know that. Um, talk to us about that ahead of time. Um, and just like we talked, we already talked about visiting the site. Um, and use the business cards. Um, and don't, she already talked about that in one of the scenarios. So, we can keep going legislative process. So, this really is wide open. We really want you to be at any type of public participation that we have. You're able to talk to the community about that, encourage participation. Um, and um, so completely two different types of processes. And I think Casey covered that well. Next one. Um, so just our process, we always do the opening script. We have that time for any kind of disclosure. Um, we do the staff presentation, applicant presentation, public comment, applicant rebuttal opportunity, discussion, and after the discussion. So, we always wanted to make sure that the board of county commissioners before they retire from the meeting that they've had all of their questions answered. We never want them to feel um the that you know they were limited in any way because they retired from the meeting before the motion is made. So um we just always encourage and I think the chair does a good job of asking the board if they have anything else. So just don't feel like you can't you know ask any of your questions during that time. Um and then of course the deliberation and motion and then the vote. Okay. I've got um a staff report. I just wanted to kind of go through it. I think one of the hardest things sometimes um and and I don't see I haven't seen the planning commission struggle with this, but I do want to just spend just a tiny bit of time to go through um this the structure of a staff report and then

particularly making motions. So, um I'm going to be brief, I promise.

I can't get out of the presentation.

Oh. Oh, stop sharing. There you go. And then and then you should be able to go get something else. Yeah, there you go. Awesome. Oh, and I'm going to take the flicker for this one so you don't have to painfully tell me to keep going. Okay, so this is Let me just Okay, so staff report. The first part of every staff report gives you the proposal. It tells you exactly what is the basis of this proposal. This particular one, just because of you'll need to know, is a combined major subdivision in PUB. Um, so I'm tracking two separate processes within the same staff report. Um, so first in every staff report, we're going to tell you all about it. We're going to give you the details. What are they proposing and what do they want? Um, first that part was um subdivision, then we're in PD. Then we're going to go into everyone that this project was referred to and what they had to say and what you know a lot of these are experts in the different areas and you're going to get all of their information and um feedback. If there's conditions that they want us to consider, they're going to show up in here that came directly from them. Um so that's the next part of um all of our uh review. This one's very indepth because it's got lots of this is the Cali engineer. Um, so all of his comments are going to be there. Then the next thing that you're going to see is us apply the code to the proposal. So, we're going to go into these specific sections of the code and go through everything that the code talks about in respect to whatever type of application it is. And we're going to go into a ver very thorough review of every aspect that the code um requires an application to follow. We're going to incorporate

into this all of the review comments that we got that we received and any areas of concern that we have specific to those areas. So, it gets very in the details. Um, and that's going to like this one on top of everything in chapter 3, it also has to abide by chapter 6 for development standards. So again, we're just applying the code in um great detail. Then we're going to get to your very important section on approval criteria. And yeah, sorry. Oh, yeah. Real quick, so the comments that are written Mhm. and sent in

if they're way over 3 minutes, how are those? Because I know we've read some and it's like they're pretty long. That's yeah, that's a really um great point. I think that we have been talking about um in the past and we don't always limit public comment to three minutes. It kind of depends on the room.

So sometimes we've read them into the record from start to finish. Sometimes they're limited to three minutes. You're not going to find public comment within your staff report. We're going to send you those public comments and we do want you to to look at them in their entirety. Okay. Um, but when we're limiting comments within the public hearing, so some it just kind of depends on we're doing that when we're reading something in. Um, we'll probably also work with Matt and see what his preference is for us to do that. Some it has just kind of depended from time to time, but when we take in written comment, we send those out so that you have those. So, um, I would say we might sometimes we may limit reading something to three minutes and saying we're done. Sometimes we read it into its entirety. We kind of listen to the chair and what she would like to have done and set the tone of that meeting if we're limiting comment to a certain time. And then she may also direct us to limit reading them in. And sometimes we've missed it and we've read it all in. Um but you know, it kind of depends on whatever um we've decided based on the attendance and how can we get through all the comment in the evening.

Does that make sense? Okay. A lot of boards just acknowledge written comments comment on reading. We have taken in. So I'll I'll um I can ask now too. We've had some people that have requested us to read it into the record because they we've had people in the room before that have felt that they couldn't get up and publicly speak. Um, so we've had some requests for people to ask us to do that on their behalf because they just weren't good at public speaking or they didn't feel comfortable. Um, and so we have um accommodated those accommodation.

Yeah. So we've made some accommodations but they've been asked by that. When they've just been shared with us, then we typically just email them over. That overview sheet has a link on it that has a Google file. We've all seen these that have has everything in it.

Yeah. And we when we receive them normally when we take them in kind of as they come in, we kind of bundle them and send them out. So sometimes, you know, we we've taken in like three, we'll push those out, but sometimes we kind of we know there's quite a few coming and we're trying to kind of bundle them commission report to. Um, so we do send them directly to you as well as add them in. We don't expect you to to know that something's been added, but if you have the link, it usually will tell you that something's been added. Um, approval criteria. So, typically what you're going to see in here, we're going to give the applicant's response and then staff's going to review that response, determine if um they feel like it's an adequate and viable response, give you um feedback if they um agree um or if they think that there's more information um that you know, this one was a simple staff agrees. There's other instances um some applicants have done a very good job of um demonstrating the approval and sometimes we expand upon it. Um so you know this gives a you know some so we think there's something missing we're going to add it in here because we want to make sure that those approval of criteria um have been criterion have been um addressed and properly in uh alignment with our code. Um so this is long because we have two sets of approval criteria. We have both mitra subdivision and the pud and so but you will find the basis for making those findings that the criteria have been met within this section. Then we're going to go into a staff recommendation um which will tell you um you know basically what staff is recommending and

that'll be followed by suggested motions for the file. So, know you've all read them before, but we always give you a motion for approval, a motion for conditional approval, and um some guidance on making a motion for denial. So, we note in um particular at the end of each of the the two um favorable motions and make the findings that all approval criteria section 3.16.4 before and the other approval criteria as conditioned have been met as presented in the staff report dated February 10th, 2025. So, this is to help complete the record of how did we make a favorable finding on this? How were the um what were the findings of fact that concluded that the approval criteria had been met? And so this is provides an analysis of how um those findings were made. Um so that is an important part of every motion. Um and why we report uh we record the um staff report to make that record as complete as possible so that if we ever did get a petition um for a one of six review um that we have a complete record and that we have based our decision within um solid findings and we have evidence of those findings. So now that's a little easier um to do. Of course you can always add conditions and generally have felt at ease doing that. Um so you know as conditioned the only thing is as you're adding a condition it's really good to tie that to one of the approval criteria. You know this is a code. you know, we're adding this requirement to um strengthen the finding of whatever approval criteria you're looking at, you know, that you're that you'd like to um

that you're basing that condition off of just like staff has done. I have a question about that. So earlier in the in the training, it was we were admonished not to let's make a deal, right? So at some point that transitions into conditions or or does it or is if we do try to if we do accidentally fall into that will Matthew will you tell us you're going you've gone too far. Let's make a deal as like a quick broker right and you do this. Okay. All right. We'll do this for you. So I think that that's probably the line. Yeah.

Yeah. If if you're if you're mitigating an impact based on approval criteria, you're you're staying in your code and you're doing good um planning work and and and you're making good recommendations because you're basing those in a way that you feel an impact hasn't been properly mitigated. And this is a way in order to ensure um and make those findings. You're always safe if you can if you can relate it back to a conditional approval. Yeah. Or to a set of code requirements or approval requirements.

Exactly. Exactly. You just want to be looking at that. Same with Okay. So, for a motion for approval, you have to make all of those findings. You have to you have to make all of these findings 1 through eight that we have listed here, you have to you have to say that all of those findings can be met whether um they they are met or as conditioned they are met. But for a motion for denial, you only have to find one or more of these. Um, that it doesn't align with the comp plan, that it doesn't align with the code, that it's not spatially efficient, um, that it's not suitable, the property is not suitable for development, that it's not compatible with the surrounding uses. But you have to expand on that and explain how, you know, and why. So, when you get an application in front of you, I think the most the hardest motion to make is motion for denial. And so as you would be thinking about things and you're going through that review, keep your your approval criteria in mind and what is it about the the particular development in front of you today that could not you know you don't feel that the code and the findings can be met. And so at at a minimum of one of those so you know that staff note it's not necessary to find all of them negative or that you can't make those findings but which ones do apply and on what basis?

Just a quick question just out of curiosity more than anything. Um the code the comp plan code is code right that's a requirement more black and white a lot of our approval criteria written kind of like the comp plan meets the conditions of or the the intent of the comp plan does that ever get us a little dangerous when we have a denial because it's hard to defend like I don't know something out of the complaint and it's kind of vaguely written. Do you ever get in trouble for that? It's more of a question I've got than anything else.

I'll I'll answer um and then I bunch of 40, but I would say that the comm plan is an advisory document. And what you would have to do is you would have to say um that the proposal didn't sufficiently meet a goal or strategy. So, so you'd have to be able to pull something um to explain the basis of why it didn't meet the comp plan. Yes, it is an advisory document. It's not a regulatory document. We've never approved it or adopted it as um a regulatory document,

but it would you still have to have a basis of saying why is it not consistent with a comprehensive plan and provide um your basis of that. you have to have a a basis for has ever been legally challenged since it's guidance and not a requirement. It

it's really hard to to challenge these things first and foremost as long as you have a good process in place um and a good record. I think one thing I've talked about is sort of beefing up our written findings a little bit. Um, so, so you you you all may say something like the comp plan and I may, you know, scour the record and and kind of add some more flesh around what you were talking about based upon the conversation and what you were doing and then you come back and you prove these findings of fact, which are really what a court's looking at at the end of the day. They're not they're not they're not looking at the motion. They're looking at your written findings of fact and what was the decision? Why did you make it and what criteria did you apply when you make it? And that's the intent of that document that you were asking us to send.

Exactly. On the box because I'm I'm asking myself, did we really apparently we Yeah. And the reason you did it for us is because if you just have these sort of vague statements, um it's really hard for a judge to come through, you know, on a large application, you're you're talking about thousands of pages of a transcript. And if you don't if you can't point to something or a number of things for a judge, it just really opens the door for opposing council to to basically argue that this was an arbitrary capricious decision. It's really unclear how it is.

So that was my question is all that stuff happens. We just I haven't been privy to it before because you only had the one denial. So okay,

it was really helpful. So, um that sounds great. Um and um but just just to let you know that, um you know, this is this is here for your benefit and the things that you should be thinking about if you decide. Um you know, and and we'll always um have assistance in making sure that our record is demonstrate um how those findings were made. So and and we'll work together um CPT and Matt to make sure that we're improving process to I'm following our code. So but any questions?

One more thing on this. So if there's a condition for approval or or approval with conditions and it addresses something in the code that it needs to abide by, that's the condition for approval. That can be one motion, but you could also say motion for denial because it's not consistent with that piece of the code. Does that make sense? Like because you can say, "Well, we're denying it because it's not consistent with this part of the code." Instead of saying approval with the condition to address the item that's not written in the

like we could have done that with Betty's hut or whatever that was but the bunk house the sanitation we could have said like instead of you all suggested the condition of approval be that it that the sanitation was handled before you got a co and then it would be part of the permit and we could have said no that has to be done before you come back to Right. That's what I'm You can go either way. It's addressing the same problem or you can't Yeah. case for denial or a case for approval in condition for approval that you've agreed to. Yeah.

I will say that um you know part of what staff will do also is the body of the you know as we're doing the review we're going to highlight what we believe are the deficiencies in the application

right? Um so that you know you'll those will be talking points. You know those will be things that we bring up in the presentation of the application. You know these are the areas that um you know unless we condition some of the conditions um wouldn't necessarily if they weren't conditioned um would be a basis of denial. Sometimes they just strengthen um you know some components you know like you know one of the conditions on here I think is following all of the

um the uh engineers notes you know before we do a final plat we're going to make sure that all of the uh the engineer comments were satisfactory taken care of. So, you know, yes, you know, there are there are ways um to So, there's a cost benefit for the county doing approval with conditions versus a denial potentially. Yeah.

And um you know, I think that um you know, things like compatibility with surrounding are surrounding uses, that's a big one, right? That's a big one that comes up. you know, have we do you have a belief that um the impacts can be adequately mitigated? Like we're going to give you okay, if this was going to move forward, we're going to try to give you a condition that would mitigate those impacts. But do you think that's not potentially going to relieve the impact to the degree that it should and the impact to the surrounding use is just going to be nothing that that we should be thinking about doing. So that's like I think kind of a good example. We're going to we're going to always try to come up with some mitigating factors and some ways to manage that. But through the discussion and um the you know the testimony evidence that you take in that day, maybe you determine that's just not going to we we don't have confidence that's going to really remove

the hazard or or whatever the issue is to the point that we can do that. and and Box Creek is probably exhibit A because I mean we went through in other tools continuation say okay we're going to continue to try and address specific issues you gave us very specific direction which was important and at the end of the day they didn't get it done like you did you decided that those conditions aren't enough

that's one nice thing with our staff is it's rare for us to get an application that hasn't been fully vetted and if it hasn't been fully vetted and there are problems and they know there are problems, they'll take that back to the applicant. So, it doesn't have to come to us. It gets continued until they get those things fixed. So, kudos on you guys. You save us a lot of heartache. Mhm. And take on that heartache. A lot. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But it's it's also more fair to the applicant because it lets the applicant understand where they stand and what would make it a successful application and you know staff luckily can go back to them and say this just isn't going to fly so we don't have to see it.

So thank you.

Well and then we're trying to do that like early because you know um you know applicants spend a lot of money going through these processes. We respect their time, their energy and so the community development team really helps with that too. you know, we're we're trying to set, you know, realistic expectations and um you know, what what they what kind of information they need, you know, there was we try to do as much upfront as that as possible because we don't, you know, try to delay that through the process and sometimes it's unavoidable, but we thought that the community development team would really be that kind of um additional help to make sure that we're avoiding those early in the process and still them, you know, kind of come in and being disappointed through the process

at another meeting at 6:00. See you guys.

Any anybody have any other questions, thoughts? We're going to save next week. Um we I will go ahead and and let you know that we are working um with county attorney's office on proposal for a moratorum to take a time out um so that we make sure that we're really making sure that our code manages um the new trends um around um different types of commercial lodging. We also know that that's an economic development strategy, but we want to make sure that our code is clear and um that we're we're really being mindful about location and impact. Um so, um just so you know, that'll be a big um item on our agenda next time, as well as really hearing back from you. What's working? Where do you feel like there's challenges? What could your staff be doing better? What would um help? what are you hearing from the community? You know, are there pain points out there that um we can help alleviate or we can find systems or efficiencies around? So, um we'd really love some feedback and make that really interactive next week and then we'll bring to you what what's really on um our docket for this year as far as priorities and you can tell us what kind of things you think should be priorities as well. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for sitting through a lot of big talk too. And you

mean in two weeks, right? Yes. Did I say next week? Just double checking everybody to know. So next week

thanks everybody. One other thing I think that we're trying to do a joint VOC and city council on February 24th. Is that right? Yeah. I think that's the date we landed on. It should be on I think it's on the calendar. Okay. Yes. So, just so you know, the next Yeah, the next. And that is a change. You know, the last time we did a comp plan, the planning commission adopted um you still are making the recommendation, but this time the board will um actually do the adoption of the comp plan. So, last time we did it, the planning commission adopted. This time you'll make the recommendation. So, we go through the same public hearing process, but it'll be your adoption. What's