E911 Authority - Regular Meeting

We started this morning's work session. It's m Monday, June 16th at at 9:00 in the morning. Um and we're talking today basically a single topic. Um is our discussion today is uh to review the Lake County E911 uh director job description and discussion on potential employee classification and recruitment. Perfect. Thanks, CL. Oh yeah. Um, so, uh, let's I guess I I thought we'd just start off with an, uh, hey, good morning.

Um, just talk about the overall structure of dispatch and yeah, and then we'll break it down into um, the director job description and some of the things we've been doing um, and then just talk about some recruiting stuff. Candace, how are you doing this morning? I'm good. How are you guys? Good. Good. Uh, do you guys mind if I draw? No. Let's just say you looked out that X you were ready. Yes. Uh, Jeremiah, can you see this board? We might have to move owl.

All right. So um just very uh simple view of what we're doing here is we have um we have the board of directors here like so

yeah or you can turn it off too. I just want to Um then what we've established um mainly clear the the budget process is how many positions were allotted uh to run our emergency communication center. So we decided we needed a director. Um and then from there we branched it off into two supervisors. And then we have a total of eight dispatchers. She also brought in that as she's a big fan that they are operators. Okay, so this gives us a total of 11 employees. Uh this is what we decided to go ahead and budget for through 2025 and try to hire all those. Um where we're sitting now is we have dispatchers. I say half because um right now this time of year she's out of school and is helping out quite a bit. So we're getting pretty close as you can see to filling these roles. And then we uh signed in two different supervisor roles uh to essentially serve as a supervisor for each side of the week is how it kind of rolls out uh with the schedule that they have. And then they would report to a director and the

director is as did throughout our IG bylaws is um reports to us and we're to appoint this person. A quick history we have appointed one uh that was a supervisor at the time providing handful years of experience was promoted to supervisor and then was given additional tasks director. Um and we went through that process and when that person left we took on additional tasks to try to fill in a lot of those gaps. So where we're sitting now don't have a director we don't have we just have this and then we've turned ourselves into this uh managing board and we've identified uh some of the key roles. So with going to kind of dive into job description here with the director role which um I think it's fair to say that we believe is a very important role here. It's kind of uh what holds dispatch together between the board and supervisor but we're taking on a lot of those additional tasks. We've identified six areas that need focused and we've all taken on um a couple of those uh different roles. So, the first one's training um which um Dan takes care of or helps out with. Um recruitment and retention is the next one. And we have uh Jeremiah and Dan over here. Um policy, Claire and Jeremiah. Project management is Jeremiah, myself. Uh oversight supervision is um Dan and myself. And then budget is Jeremy and myself on that one also. So when it comes to we don't really want to dive into the job description specifically line by line today. Um but just wanted to talk about what we're doing there to

help identify some of those um missing links if you will not having that director in that role. Um, experience levels where we're at right now is we we're slowly gaining experience levels uh or they're increasing on our dispatch level. We have anywhere from I'd say five uh excuse me like two to push from six years of experience um with our part-time person and brings in quite a bit and we have one of our new hires that's in that fiveyear range. Um from a supervision standpoint, this is where we're lacking in experience. Um we have us stepping up to try to manage some of these key roles and we also have um our current supervisor um in the supervision of all of dispatch right now. Um so she's kind of taken on the role of being a supervisor for everybody uh with not a lot of experience with dispatch and not a lot of experience as a supervising. Um, and just to kind of, you know, display some of the in comparison, we've had some recent conversations with Chiefy County. Uh, their last director was there for 40 years and their new directors, new director well, but also brings experience by coming within and having that development. And as you can see, we just we just don't have that here with us. Um, so this I mean, that's just kind of a quick background. uh what we're doing as you guys all know what I wanted to talk today about is one continue the conversation on why this is a problem like we need to do something about this um and to explore what our different options are we've attempted to hire the director for quite a while now we've had multiple different efforts September will be two years uh which is crazy to think

um and we've had u a couple applications come through that were hopeful and then they just stopped talking to us. Um for for whatever reason we just we don't have a lot of feedback on why those didn't work out but they didn't. We made another attempt uh increased salaries uh our salary range um off of bonuses and uh still still no luck with that. So we continue on as a managing board um pulling in those extra duties. I I would say overall we're doing what we can with our capacity levels, but it's not serving to be enough. So, um we have some different options. I'm suggesting today that we look into the option of a uh temporary uh director. Um and and I just want to go through some of the Lake County uh options that we have with employee classification options. So, we have a full-time option, which is what our main purpose was, was to try to hire a full-time director, uh, which is anything over 30 hours. Um, we have regular part-time, which is something we haven't explored, which is less less than 30 hours. U, we also have seasonal and temporary employee options. Um, so this this would be, um, a pre-established time, not more than 5 minutes according to the Lake County Handbook. And so this will be saying we want your help for x amount of time. Um we also have the option of occasional uh on call employee which I don't think uh fits this type of position at all. We're not looking to put anybody on any sort of retainer. I don't think that would be fitting. We can talk about that if you guys disagree. Um and then if if not any of those regular employee type of definitions, then we have the option um for an independent consultant. Can't be both. We got to pick one or the other. Um which is something we've kind of talked

about a little bit with what Paul's brought to the table with that u company that she was talking about. Um, as for when it comes to recruitment, I think if we explore some of these different options, um, that we will significantly broaden the the the applicant pool. Uh, if we have people that are willing to come up and do maybe even a temporary role, uh, which as defined again is no more than five months, but it's a pretty established time. Um, or we do this as a part-time employee, um, with so part-time and temporary expands our options quite a bit. Um I also believe that this could recruit somebody with the experience and expertise in dispatching um in leadership and management um that we're looking for. Um and again that's purely hope there's obviously no way I can guarantee that. But if we open up the options for hiring somebody um I believe that we'll be able to play that director role sooner than later. Um, and we have other options in the works with Chief County. It's not really the topic today, but we are working other things in case this doesn't work out. Um, or this option doesn't produce what that I'm hopeful for. But that's that's kind of the opener there. If you guys want to give me some thoughts, I know Claire, I appreciate your email. I'm already not seeing that. Um, yeah. So, what do you guys have for me? So, would we uh is the vision to still use KRW and just um I I'm not bringing that to the table today. Um because of the cost potential um you know, they they quoted us around $14,000. Um and there's some other costs that

could be associated with that. Um so, it's a pretty significant cost. Um that's that is laying everything out there though. Um so that is again I didn't really think about bringing that up today but um cuz that certainly does uh add enticement I believe by listing it under three job qualifications full-time part-time or temporary. solid. And so the question is, do we try that without the investment in the KRW now first to see if we get any results by opening it up? Um, or do we try it all at once? I think I think that's great. My only concern is our window now is so short with the weather

because KRW had suggested we have it posted with them by now. We're already what, June 16th? In two months, we'll be seeing snow again. It's true. It is true. Or July 4th, right? We've seen it before. I'd be okay with that.

Which I think that's uh that is the heavy bush is to be involved, open up all our options. This is just pulling out all the stops all at once. Um, and that's something that we can, you know, put on our uh next regular meeting to to vote on if you want to spend the money. So, when is our next regular meeting? July 11. Okay. Cuz we could push this out if the majority of the board agrees with these three enticements and at the next board meeting, we could decide whether or not to duplicate what we're doing and push it to KRW for recruitment. What is our what have we used through our human resources option to get it out nationally? Is it what platforms have we put it out there on? Do we know those?

So, Jazz HR will automatically push it to kind of the big ones like the Indeeds and all that. Um, Jazz HR is the applicant tracking system the county uses. We put something on there, it goes out to the big ones. Um, additionally, we paid for um, Aco and Na Nina Na Nina. Um, one of those was a 30-day, one of those was a 60-day. I can't remember which one was which. Um, but we did pay for those and that was about $800 total. 800 on that. I think we get it for free though because we're members now. We weren't members at the time. Yeah. Yeah. But I think now that's we are members.

Yeah. Um, yeah, it seems like we've used those resources. So, the reason why I asked that question is what's what's the other company going to do for us more so than what we're already doing internally if it's already going out to all these platforms nationally to include everybody looking at MINA in the dispatch world? Um, yeah. Do you mind talking about your experience?

Uh, I mean, they did great. I'm impressed with the company. Uh what made the process slow is the city trying to make a decision. Uh cuz I know it it it is comical that I submitted my resume about a year and a half before I got hired. Then they hired a recruiting firm. I don't know how much they spent and uh they end up with me as the candidate. So I think the city wasted their money. They they could have done in retrospect, hindsight's 2020, the city could have saved a ton of money uh by just doing the process themselves.

And that was prior that was that was to recruit a part-time and Chavez came in here because of that, right? Is that how that worked? They did that and I think I think the city administrator became aware that Chavez was available so she reached out to him to be a temporary employee. Gotcha. So this company didn't do that? No. No, I don't think so. Um, and also I'm a member of the Colorado Chiefs Police Association. You could advertise with them too to push it out to more. There must be a fighter chief's association. Police everywhere.

Yeah, that's and and so I was there with um Chavez when that started. It started off with a guy named Mike Brown. he was around for just a couple weeks. Um because it was

kind of advertised to him that it would just be a short time and same with Chief Chavez at the time was uh told it could take anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple months. He ended up spending 10 minutes here. Um but th those two came by word of mouth. And so if we if we advertise it as this temporary fill in this gap right now while we're looking at all our other permanent options that we I think the word of mouth or assist and I've seen it where temporaries come in and they say you know this is this isn't a bad gig. I'd like to

be considered the option. Yeah, the lady that or the person that retired from Chie County for 40 years before retirement. I don't know if I don't know her personally if I've ever met her. I don't know if anybody else has. Yeah, absolutely. So, I don't I don't know what the personal situation is, but some somebody you know that like that may have retired or has, you know, maybe still a couple of years they want to work for whatever reason. They have their contact information. You do? I think so. I do. I'm sure we can get it, too. Yeah.

I know Jeremia's in contact with Nick, the current director down there. So, he might be able to help reach out. But it's Yeah, it's surprising to me how much people talk. You know, I know so and so and so and so knows so and so and they're looking for something like this. We all have meetings like once twice a week for different things in that dispatch world.

So there's a lot of contact there. Jennifer Kirkland with the PhD. She's very knowledgeable and who's out there, who's looking for what. I mean there's a lot of contact in that world that just meetings that happen all the time. So, it's a lot of outreach.

Candace, since you're here, you mind if I pick your brain a little bit? Um, just I don't know if you've seen or other examples of this at maybe a director level where there was a temporary fill that Lake County has used in recent history. No, I I don't know because I'm just too new in this role to know what we've done historically in that regard. Um we had interim directors before. Sure. And but that's always within that I've seen that.

Yeah. I just think if you did an interim, we'd have to have a discussion about what that looks like and who has the actual bandwidth to do that would be correct. Yeah. And we discussed that in the last meeting and that's kind of where why we're meeting today is to look externally. Yeah.

And that's what it feels like um our best options right now. uh capacity is the the key word that seems to be floating around on we have anybody internally who has the capacity to to do that job. Um and that's why we're talking about this today is and then looking at the county options to um it seems like if we advertise this as a as a part-time hire or a temporary hire um that we can expand options quite a bit. Yeah. Really make it AC.

Jeremiah, what are your thoughts? Uh, my main question, and you guys may have gone over this. I was on the phone for a second. I apologize. But, um, would this be in addition to the contracted work that we spoke about, or would this be? Um, we didn't bring that up actually, so I'm glad you did. Um, talking about the consultant.

Yeah, the consultant that, uh, the type of work that Paula brought for, I think it's still beneficial. Um, it's another hefty bill for us to invest in, but it also gives us that starting point that we talked about, uh, where this person can come in and really dig into our systems and see what we're lacking and give those suggestions. So, it does give whether it's uh full-time, part-time, temporary, whatever that whoever that person is, uh gives them a good starting point. And I used myself as a reference when the county hired u their consultant um prior to appointing me, I had kind of a to-do list already one um which was super helpful. So, um that that would be something that I think we can um talk a little more today on some of those details. Uh and then potentially get it on a regular meeting for a vote if we decide to spend that money on a consultant also.

And then kind of expanding on that too, like I I have no problem with trying to get stuff done while we don't have a director. My worry is that we're we're gonna spend money on a contract, spend money on an interim, and then also still need to spend money on KRW. Right. But this with the budget that's established with eight positions, one supervisor, and a director, we should have capacity in our budget to take some of these actions. That's correct.

Could you clarify for me? Could the director um potentially be part-time with other duties or do you need somebody in that role who's full-time just trying to get creative about how to fill the position? Yeah. When you say other duties, do you mean like a just a a separate job?

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if there's any So sometimes when we really need to cover a position like in for public health and DHS, they're two completely different departments, but sometimes we can utilize a person with a skill set that fills a need between both and just split

their pay department. So I just personally had a hard time filling the position. Is there an opportunity to I mean I can get creative and see what would make sense but if there's an opportunity to make it appealing from a monetary standpoint or a what they're doing standpoint it is so I just thought of this so I've been working with he because he was an officer for 10 plus years. He knows fire. He knows all radios. He is very knowledgeable in this stuff and how policies work, how SOPs work, how all of this stuff works. I don't know. I'm just going to

Yeah. Just somebody like that. Um, he is very good at all that stuff, you know, just by seeing what he knows and he's been here for a while already. Yeah. If we can put him in a copy machine and make another one, that'd be great. But his capacity as well. That's what I was That's what I was thinking is his capacity to do because he is involved in a lot of things. Oh, he's unemployment right now. Is he on fire, too? It doesn't He was on No, he wasn't on Summit Fire. He went through our program. He was a law enforcement for over 10 years. But doesn't he have another job here? I thought he had two jobs for some reason.

He uh he works for um just ever so often the ambulance service over in county. Okay. See, I think to that point, we can I think it's really hard to identify an exact number, but in those situations, we should probably establish what our minimum part-time level would be. So, if we hired somebody part-time and say, "Give us an hour a week." We're probably not going to see a lot of change happen or or receive the help that we need if we're only getting one hour a week.

But what's the answer? I don't I don't have that exact answer, but I think we can still say, you know, maybe it's 15 or 20 hours a week is what we need bare minimum. And and so if we have an option like that, saying, "Hey, can you dedicate 15 hours a week or 20 hours a week, 10 hours a week, and draw the line there. I guess what I wondered is if it's hard to hire someone not fulltime. Could we make like a full-time position that's like so much percent is dedicated to this and then another person is dedicated to another area to make it more appealing. How so? Um

so it might you might not be able to get someone to do the job you want just part time. they might need a full-time job to actually be able to afford to do the job. So, I wonder if the job we're posted has a percentage towards this and a percentage towards another area that's got a similar skill set. Yeah. um could that potentially be a selling point so that we still get some things you all the things you need but could actually afford to take positions part-time positions are so hard to take your I just can't afford to take a half a salary I wonder um

but I wonder in that example if you feel like the person uh meets the requirements that we're looking for is the right person for job and they want full-time. Why would we not just offer them a full-time job is my thought? Because it's a decent paying position. Um, unless we think that they would rather do something else, but they bring these skills and they want to divide their time up. Sorry, we're looking for a pretty particular skill set. I guess I guess my question is what do you guys feel that dispatch needs most right now? What what do you guys see together that you want that person to do?

Yeah. And I know you kind of missed the opening. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about those like it's basically everything that we're trying to do, but we have limited capacity to give attention to, right? over oversight, training, um pol budget, all those types of things,

you know, those are specific things for a director to um you know, engage in in an agency. Those are the things that I think relying or having the greater capacity to do so because you're buried also through throughout your dayto day for supervisory to so uh do we have Jackie on our agenda in order for her to give us a um a presentation on what her consulting form firm can do for us. I mean, I know that she gave us a a quote, but I' I'd like to be able to ask her more questions about specific questions, like what is the overall greater capacity of that of that business that she wants?

Is there somebody sitting in the wings saying, "Oh, is there a part-time, you know, retiree or somebody who wants to step in and do more than just what she's brought for us?" Don't know. Don't know. I don't think we've built the agenda for the 11th quite yet, but I know she's offered to join us.

I I did not do organ agenda. How do how do you guys feel about establishing uh what our range is? We desire full-time. We're willing to go down how many hours. What works for me and is clear for me is to establish amount of hours per week that we need as a as a bare minimum. 24 would be nice.

I was going to say 20, but yeah, 24, right? 20ish. Oh, those are just

I'm fine starting with that 20 20 hours a week and call that a minimum requirement from or search to part time. Mhm. Yes. Uh then I I think we can also advertise it as a temporary position too. Uh keeping it under that five month mark. Yes. Candace from a county operations standpoint just following county uh handbook on the definition of those roles and responsibility. You seem on track right now. That's fine. I think we'll just, you know, work with Zoe to make sure she knows it's just a temporary,

you know, how to advertise. Yeah. Advertise it as it's, you know. Yeah. Are these separate job listings? I think if you're changing the terms of the posting, then yeah, it would be because I honestly I haven't looked at what's posted right now, but I would imagine it doesn't specify the number of hours or that it ends under Right. No, we definitely amend that a bit. Just the other question is the hourly position for this hourly benefit for this position

and clearly I mean I would think no benefits of course you make sure that are there some benefits for the regular parttime somebody's hired depends on how many hours you work it's going to be up to 32 30 or 32. Yeah.

And CL, you mentioned you knew somebody that might be interested in something like this that you reached out by chance. Uh she took the dog with you. Okay.

Um and one of my requests from the Lord and everybody in this room actually is is to do what Claire did in that situation is to reach out to people that you know who may know people. Um I know I've had conversations with Jeff Streer um who was the director for the Jeff emergency communication center, you know, just reach out to somebody like that and say, "Hey, here's what we're doing. Do you know anybody?" And that would just all take a little bit of a personal effort and pushing out some some requests for somebody, you know, that may be connected. We need some traction that way to put it out to everybody in my for them to push it out as well.

And I'll do I'll do more. So regular part time is 30 hours a week for us. Um they are eligible for pizza I believe. Okay. That's about it. So, Candace, I can get with Zoe and say we're we're going to repost this position. Uh, we're going to pursue still I think there's still a full-time option. Would it be like a uh or would Zoe answer all these questions? You don't have to know the answer. uh if you want to try parttime with the option for full-time um and you can describe in that single listing on what that break point is what the benefit split up would be are supposed to be separate listings.

I think she'll probably do two separate listings and see what's in the bills first. do that with a couple of different things where we're not sure what our applicant will look like post to the different positions and see which one gets the better set of responses just

okay I can definitely see the the temporary position that's one where it says that it's uh there's no benefits if it's a temporary position um but then what that what we come down to now is the pay range for that. I that's that would equal some sort of change in pay range. One has to be hourly. Um two, since there's no benefits that the county is paying for that, that could potentially grow that pay range a little bit. Is that fair to say or is that his own question? So if we have the money for the pay range,

yeah, if the pay range grows because there's no benefits associated. So the hourly rate, we're offering somebody a temporary role in just an hourly rate and there's no benefits that the county is paying. Does that give us the opportunity to expand the payment grow lower? Oh, sure. because you wouldn't be. So when we look at what it costs for an employee, we look at like the total amount across the board.

So yeah, I do think you probably could get away with a higher hourly rate. But if you think you're going to have that person come in at an hourly rate, transition to fulltime, you just have to be really clear that what if they do transition to fulltime, it's not based on a higher than what they were getting hourly rate. Does that make sense? because you don't want to set us up to not be able to fund the position, but sure, I get it. You don't have benefits and it's really part time. Higher el hourly rate might help you entice that person. I just think you have to be really clear in the hiring process if you move full-time. You have the additional benefits. Sometimes people forget your benefits have a lot of cost associated with them.

So, just making sure we're really clear. It seems like you thought it

um so what I'll do is uh start playing around with numbers and figuring out what those hourly rates would look like and um I can get with Zoe and start working on job descriptions and get this posted. Um, there's any concerns about me doing this before the regular meeting. We can hold this off for a regular meeting vote if that feels necessary. I know we're discussing just different recruitment efforts. It's a major decision you guys should wait for a vote on. I'm happy to do that also. So, if you get someone, will you be training them?

What do you mean? because there's a lot. Somebody just doesn't come in and knows all of our stuff, what we have, and what we work with and all that detail. So, like Paula,

the hope would be is that this would and somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but at least my hope would be that this would be somebody who has experience in a dispatch center um and and in this sort of role, right? So this isn't really a role that would need training per se before they start. Yes, they would have to learn your systems, but that would be part of their role would be to talk to you, talk to the dispatchers, learn the system, see where things need to be improved. Like that would be part of their job, right? Um and and that sort of thing. So it's it's not like a uh you know yes they may learn they need may need to learn flex or they need to learn specific things with dispatching with us but how to dispatch you already hopefully have experience running a dispatch center that would be the hope right so coming in and kind of already having some already having some experience in this not necessarily training before they start does that make a little more sense Um, yeah, I guess so. I guess it's just like my thing that I hope you guys would ask. Do you have training in the new new generation 911? Do you know what those aspects are? Do you know where we're going with that? because those are things that they should know and I hope you guys are will be asking those kind of questions,

you know, and how much info do you have on it and um stuff like that with our the regulations of the PU regulations with the ETC, what we have to do with that, those kind of things. I hope you guys are asking so that it is a good start for them to come on and do those things. you know the regulations that we have for everything. Yeah. that we need, you know, on this. I think that's what ask those questions. And that that's different than training though. It's uh we're transitioning to a hiring process, right? Your initial question is are we going to train, right? Well, definitely.

Yeah. Just with the training aspect, those who know those things because then if they do then you really don't need to train anything that much. Do you know what I mean? They kind of play hand in hand with that. That's right. You had anything? It's just it's going to still be a difficult task. So I I really just think that we just need to be aware of that regardless of how much information we're trying to be. [Music]

Be careful with the chief's talking about at some point we may have to reconsider that. that this last ditch effort on our end through our human resources and everything that all the platforms we're pushing out on word of mouth all of that still fails then we may have to invest that's [Music] I really hope that we were able to get somebody at least interested part Jeremiah, any other thoughts?

Not currently, sir.

The place she's had to take a call. I I guess I'm always talking about that to all of our I'm at whatever, you know, to all the dispatch centers and all that seeing if anyone is available and then I go to trainings. Yeah. I put it out there. So that's my hope is if we open up the options that they might be interested in a temporary or part time. Mhm. I guess the biggest they're not from here the same right that we all

right those concerns remain but if it was temporary my basement when does Mary and Dale go to uh training uh they go to it in July that's a good um course to network Yes.

Because everybody attending that has some kind of training or supervisory role of some kind. They may they may know somebody if they can talk. Also, don't just let them know that we're looking for a director. That's July when? 11 16 16th 16th Would the city be willing to have discussions around using a room at Spring Street if we needed to entice someone?

Absolutely. Yeah. Housing will be available either there or at the station will uh Lori has made it very clear that anybody that needs housing for inland county. Yeah, it's huge. Actually, if we open up and somebody accepts it as a part-time role and we're at 20 hours a week, that could be just one night a week they spend up here and live in Denver and they're okay with that two-day appointment they do once a week. Candace, what do you what do you have for us?

Um, I don't think anything other than making sure we get with Zoe. Get things posted that you need. try to get it built, figure out if we can and need to use third party for to cover,

you know, to provide the bandwidth that we need. Um, and then there I think if we really really have the posting out there for a while and just absolutely cannot fill it, then we had a different discussion about the best way to make sure that we're covering 911 so we don't set ourselves up to fail when it really matters, which is my concern.

Yeah, we're not putting all our eggs in this basket to that point. We're also continuing conversation with Shy County um Wednesday hopefully to see just as you know especially with construction coming up one of your questions earlier like what's our backup plan if they slice the wire while they're swinging hammers in this building what do we do so uh making sure that we have a backup center working that angle also

who's who's doing that Jeremiah and Um yeah, so hopefully we can bring some updates to the uh the July 11th meeting. Um but for July July 11th, we I think we can if you want to reach out to uh Jackie or you're going to and uh so you can get her on the agenda. Um, and I'm fine with bringing KRW back up on the agenda, especially if we're able to see how, you know, the next few weeks go with slight change in our job posting and more options if we feel like after 3 weeks we're still getting nothing but we have to entertain what what KR looks like again. I imagine the quotes expired. Um, so I'd be happy to reconnect with them to see if we can get an updated quote script of work from them.

Are you looking to hire a director, a previous director, or just anyone who's worked in this special?

Probably largely depends. The only reason why I say this is because from the meetings I've gone to like public she was in the dispatch center for 20 plus years when she got into the director position she said it took her two to three years even get what she knew about how to be a director that was the consensus from all of them. So um even with um Nick down there he's still learning everything that has to go even though he had been in the dispatch center. So, so it's a big transition. So, that's why I'm asking like what you guys what you're looking

what is cross that bridge what the qualification is if we have any interest. Well, that's all I had. There's not anything else we can close this out. All right. Well, it's uh 9:47 a.m. and we close this session out. Thanks, guys. Bye, everyone.

Thanks, everybody. Jeremiah, feel better. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.