Board of County Commissioners Work Sessions - Regular Meeting

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for coming to our Lake County Board of County Commissioners work session. First item today's overview and discussion regarding transportation and safety related issues on state highways in Lake County. The topics today include but are not limited to Highway 91 safety, Homestake Trout Club and other private property access on Highway 24, semi truck deliveries in Grandview West, and 2026 pavement and pothole repair schedule. This is led by Josh Becker, our deputy county manager, staff, and CDOP.

Hey, ready to kick things off. So this work session is a combination of a number of things that are all traffic, transportation, and safety related. We've had commissioner level requests to discuss some issues. We've had some citizen outreach requests on certain safety issues on various county roads. So we sort of packaged all of this together into one discussion where we can focus on transportation and safety throughout the county. And again, this is not limited necessarily to the topics on hand. So whatever the commissioners would like to discuss, we have folks in the room who can assist from CDOT, from our staff, as well as members of public to discuss specific issues. We do recognize that our CDOT staff can only stay with us for a short time, so we're going to start with the Highway 91 topic. And this stems from a request from Commissioner Tharp about a conversation we had with the CDOT update about a month ago now to discuss general potential safety improvements for Highway 91. Is that at this very point? Yeah.

Zane, welcome back.

Hi. Glad to be here. This is my colleague Mark Tunnel. He's kind of our lead safety guy in the office there.

Awesome. So what can we do? How do we make Highway 91 safer?

Actually, I drove it. I live at mile marker four and I did have one suggestion is the S turn at mile marker two. There's three homes there and I don't know if we could use a guardrail there because people get a big head of speed and then they hit that S turn and that's where they lose it. I know there's at least one person that lives in one of those three homes that's really tired of having people come in at 100 miles an hour. So I don't know if you guys could think about doing a guardrail just in the estuarine.

So one of the things we talked about as kind of an initial solution there would be to place Chevron signs. So I don't think we have those on that curb there right now. And so that was probably, that's kind of, an easier sort of quicker fix that we can do as opposed to guardrail, which that's a whole process. So chevrons are designed exactly like that. You see them on some curves and so they're kind of square like this, they're black and yellow and they have the kind of schematic arrows in them. Turning, turning. Yeah, yeah, reflectors, absolutely. And so that was a thought there. We could put them for both directions. So it'd probably be a series of maybe three or four signs, something like that, that might at least just draw some more attention to the curve there, because we had looked at some of the accident data right there, and there have been a few cars that have gone off there. I wouldn't say the number was huge, but there have been a few. So that's kind of what we're looking at at the moment.

OK. What about... mile marker look like 11 and 12 get dinged a lot on the stats that were sent and then between six and a half and eight those look like hot spots based on your statistics we're trying to get on wi-fi here oh yeah Sorry, do you see, there's the thing over there.

Or if you have the information that we sent, we could take a look at it.

Yeah, can we- Can we pull that up? Candace, can you pull it up?

I've got that in there, it's just not- It's my computer. Okay.

Can we go to Teams and pull up the stats from today's link session?

I don't think they were ever sent to me. From CDOT? You'll have to send them to the VOCC room in an email.

No, they're in the packet. Are they? They're in a folder that Highway Incident Data 2026, 2025, and 2024. Oh, is that from Dan Daly? Yes. Oh, sorry, that's from Dan. Yeah, so it's under the fire up.

Okay, sorry, I was not sure what you wanted to hear.

I wasn't sure either.

Okay.

That's what I was referring to, sorry. Gotcha. Any one of them, if it's the same, it looks really similar.

Well, then they're all just different years, and I just wanted to be specific.

Okay, so 6.5 to 8, we're showing up a lot, and then, or mile marker 6.5 to 8, and then mile marker 11 and 12, if you look at other years as well. Can you pull up maybe another year, because this doesn't have that many.

I can talk about this.

Great, yeah. So, at the county line, What happens is the wind blows the snow over the ridge right there, and it becomes whiteout conditions. So we have a lot of either head-on collisions or just people not being able to see at all, and we have a lot of accidents there. The area just past Climax, which are coming down the hill, that roadway becomes a sheet of ice, but over the years it has gotten better. I think that that's one of the CDOTs that's on your radar, because we've had multiple vehicle pile-ups right there.

The other concern is where we've had a lot of head-on collisions as well, and that's going down from, it's right by Chalk Creek right there, where it's mile marker, and you see the statistics there, it's mile marker, between seven and nine.

That's where it splits into the passing lane?

That's correct. That's a problem but maybe a solution on that one would be a guardrail because they go over the edge right there and we've done over the edge rescues with them going over but also I believe that that's a passing lane as well and so if it became a non-passing lane I don't know if people would

abide by that, but at least it's a safety measure that might be able to put in place. The other that was mentioned, actually mile marker six, which is the corner, I don't know if that one has the signs that you were talking about. Chevron signs.

The mile marker six is another problem for us.

And then Commissioner, you brought it up, mile marker between two and three. on those corners there.

So those are our areas on Highway 91 that we respond the most on, whether it's non-injury or we're doing auto-extrication or we're doing over the edge or it's major injuries and deaths.

So in the 7 to 9 area, you said that there were issues with people going off the road but also with head-ons at the same time? That's correct. We either had head-on collisions there or the accident is so bad and vehicles end up over the edge. That's typically when it's icy out?

It's normally when it's icy. When it's not icy, we've had vehicles go over the edge as well because of the accident itself. We've had motorcycles go over the edge right there during the dead of summer. It used to be a passing Because we've got a lot of people that are coming out of Chalk Creek during the winter, which creates an additional issue. But because they snowmobile up there, during the summer, that's a great area.

It's a popular area. It's a popular area on the hillside that's a very good sideline going to the east, especially up there.

It's kind of getting back in there. In the corner just before you get there.

I know three people directly who have gone off that edge just in the time that I've been here. And I think the excessive speeds right there are one of the biggest contributing factor since that's a massive downhill. And that's where people who have cars that aren't even that fast, it's the only spot where they can pick up speed to make dangerous passes when they're in a hurry. As someone who's made that commute thousands of times over the last 28 years, that is probably the scariest spot for people driving dangerously, that big hill.

Yeah, absolutely.

Could it be pulled up on a map so we can just make sure that we're on the exact curve that you're talking about? That's not cooperating. That tells me it's connected.

Maybe Google Maps it?

Mm-hmm.

Here, Candice, just hand me the thing. The little mousy mouse.

Thanks.

Here's Shaw Creek.

Okay. Oh, so it's on the west side of the highway.

Yeah, and then this is high. This is like a massive embankment, so you go straight down off the highway here, and then you go straight up the hillside there. Right? That's what we're talking about? And this is where it becomes a passing lane.

That's where the climbing lane's at? Yeah. Right at the start of the climbing lane.

And that's where people try and pass coming downhill.

Right.

It used to be a passing.

It did. They closed it up.

And then now it's too solid yellow, which if you've lived here long enough, you can just disregard that.

Go on the whole. Well, I think I had a meeting very similar to this many years ago where we decided to do that. Yeah, thank you. I remember. So yeah.

And the state legislature just passed a law that increased potential fines for crossing on a double yellow. Yeah. Right there. But this is so many head-on collisions here, right? That's correct. So many. I mean, we all know people who have been in significant life-changing accidents here.

Yeah.

And then I also think, what is this mile marker, Dan? This is nuts here. I'm astounded we don't have more, but I've seen countless accidents of people coming southbound, and there's a dashed yellow here, and they try to make the pass going up this way before this turn, and people here come off the road to try to avoid a head-on collision. So no matter what the time of year is you see that dry you see that what is that can you screen share sorry sorry andy no that's okay i just want to i want to be able to know what you're you're pointing out over there i'm talking about this area here the big the big curve the first big curve is you're coming down the straightaway

Oh, yeah. There's always cars in the ditch there.

There's always cars in the ditch right here because they're avoiding a head-on collision from people passing going with them.

Does anyone get the feeling that that is an emergency, like, oh, no, because of people pulling in and out of high country?

I've seen people. I've been a witness to accidents here where it was a head-on. They were avoiding a head-on personally. But that's just anecdotal.

Is there signage of the base of that area that says that there is a passing lane coming? Because I think part of that is people are trying to pass, maybe not necessarily knowing that there's a two lane climbing lane a mile up the road.

No, everybody knows. This is like locals doing it.

These are local. This is not. Local IndyCar drivers.

But I guess, do you think that would do any mitigation, is if we had a passing lane ahead sign? People can pull off the gas for a mile and wait until that climbing lane comes.

So we are looking at doing that, kind of actually as the whole region goes. And we're starting with Highway 40 because there's a lot of passing lanes up there. But we're going to migrate that down here. But I would probably agree that it's probably mostly locals that know that. They're just comfortable, and so they're doing what they think they can do.

It's our commuters.

So many of us just know it really well.

So just to clarify, you're talking about like the signs that say next passing lane, two miles?

Yeah, you know, a thousand feet or whatever, and you see them on other highways. I'm just curious. I don't recall if there's one up there.

I'm going to guess not, but I'm not 100% sure.

Because people could be trying to make that pass because they know it's a very short, you know, passing zone, not realizing it. Trying to get a jump on it. Exactly.

So the passing lane isn't until, was Chalk Creek mile marker 11? So that wouldn't be more than a mile. I'm just saying if it said like it was four miles, that would make you want to do it more. I'm going to wait for four minutes to pass this person.

I have a question and I know this is super contentious, but what's your guys' experience with cameras speeding tickets. I know flock is a huge issue but maybe you want to speak to that a little bit.

So there is the ability to put speed cameras pretty much anywhere on state highways now due to the legislation that came into effect actually August 1st and some previous legislation but we have three areas in the region where we have photo enforcement and they're all three in towns. We have them in Glenwood, we have them in We have them in Basalt pretty soon here. There might be a third one. Were those real contentious? Did you have to go to the local community? Well, so the local community, the local sheriffs led those efforts. So it's kind of one where CDOT's not really pushing it or we're kind of impartial to it is what our position is. so if if you wanted to do that basically what would happen is we would work with the sheriff they would put together basically an application and that would go through us and also state patrol to be signed off on and then that system would be out there so i would say in an area like this it would be a little bit unusual i mean they're usually mostly in urban kind of areas Not that it couldn't be done out here. It's a possibility as long as there was things like power and communications and some of that kind of stuff on the technical side. But any place that there's a lot of speeding, they can be put up. Part of the justification in the application is citing like how many citations you've given, what kind of speeds, people are generally traveling. You know, it asks for some actual data and all that. But if all that substantiates the need for cameras, then it can be done.

sure I can imagine that being real contentious and I could also imagine if there was a sign that said hey there's a camera coming up every single person would slow down yeah I don't know I'm just saying that's a can of worms you know like some some retail spots have like a smiley around camera and then it's a fake camera but it's still a deterrent is that allowed

A quick question on that. Would it require a camera for each direction? Like one for the people heading towards Leadville and one for people driving? Not that people will be speeding as much uphill, but it is still pretty wild watching people make three wide passes up there into oncoming traffic. But does that require two cameras or does one camera check both all traffic?

There would be a separate camera for each direction. For one thing, they want to try to get license plates on both ends. So it's both cameras doing enforcement for both directions. And so I haven't really dug too much into how some of the communities have done this. But my understanding is that they essentially hire a vendor to come out and design and install the system. And then the vendor is paid through some of the revenue that's generated. And it generally works out to be sort of a revenue-ish, neutral-ish to the community, so it's really not something that makes money or costs money. It's typically something neutral. And that's generally born, like I say, by a third party. So if you want to think about that, either here or anywhere, just know that that's kind of usually how those deals work. Wow, that's contentious. I know people are cutting down.

Yeah. And to separate that issue out, Flock is reading license plates going into a database.

While this is also reading license plates, they're separate systems. Oh, I see. Flock is a nationwide thing, nationwide database.

These speed cameras are the one location, and they're not being paired with other things around.

And these cameras don't even take a picture of the driver, because the driver's irrelevant. Right. Those are all subtleties to the cameras out there on the side of the road that probably most people may not even believe exist.

I'm familiar with it because I got a ticket when my daughter was in Denver. She crossed into the HOV lane. She crossed in and crossed back out. That cost me $100. Thanks.

Some people don't pay it. So reiterating and making this crystal clear for anyone who watches this later on recording or whatever. Traffic cameras are not flock cameras. This is correct, right?

That's correct.

Okay.

It's important to make the distinction, though, when we're signing a contract.

Yeah. Yes. So, going back to another thing you mentioned is, you know, there is a requirement to inform drivers that camera speed enforcement ahead. mechanism to get people to slow down is not to catch people and find them and generate revenue. So there are advanced science that are required as part of the deal.

I mean I hate to be the one that history will look back on and say oh yeah Bullock wanted block cameras and then but we could change the highway all day long. It's really about changing people's behavior and people aren't going to They're just not going to change their behavior unless there's some teeth.

Well, wait. Do you want plot cameras?

Well, they're not plot cameras. They're traffic cameras.

I feel like you've made the distinction.

I don't know. I'm not saying I want it. I hope I'm making that clear. I'm not saying I want it, but it seems like an important part of that.

You know how like... Oh, I'm sorry, Matt. Go ahead.

I think it would work. I think it's a solution that could be explored. Go ahead, Andy.

Other deterrents that I think are statistically proven to work are just the sign that has the little blue and red flashing lights on it when you're going too fast and how just those lights on the sign subconsciously affect people to the level where it's shown that they will slow down. I don't know if that's something. It's sort of like that Officer Manny Quinn down in Twin Lakes. Do we have any old cop cars laying around that we can just post up there and see if that makes a difference in the meantime?

I would think that works once, and then the locals say, oh, that's just for the tourists. It doesn't apply to locals.

I don't know, man. I still slow way down when I get into Twin Lakes. Anytime I see that car sitting there, I know it's empty. I know there's nothing in there, but I still slow way down. It just reminds you, like, oh, yeah, that's right. This is a spot.

I didn't know there was an actual name for the officer. I know the officer.

Well respected in the community. So, okay, let's get this process straight. In order to, let's use the cameras. In order to get the cameras installed, we would have to go work with our sheriff to fill out an application to CDOT?

Correct.

Okay. And then in that application, we have to provide statistics, and based on the statistics that Dan Daly has provided us with, what more do we need than this kind of...

So the main thing is speed statistics.

Okay.

So in my, and I'm speaking a little bit out of tone, I'm not 100% because I haven't gone through the process, I've just reviewed what I've seen, but there's a requirement for speed And so what that entails is it entails either going out there with radar guns or some type of speed detecting device and showing that X percentage of drivers are exceeding the speed limit by a certain amount. So you can draw then some conclusions between, okay, we've got it signed at 65, 55, 80% of the people are going 10 miles an hour over there, or something like that. So there's conclusions like that that have to be drawn. I believe the vendors, provide those speed studies as part of their services, but I'm not 100% sure on that. So most of the information, most of the data is directly speed related rather than accident related. Okay.

If that makes sense. It does and it doesn't. So what is our avenue to create any enforcement or signage when it comes to accidents? Because an accident doesn't have to be speed related. It can be just reckless driving related. So how do we get any of the signage we've talked about or any of the traffic measures we've talked about? Like the Chevrons.

How do we get those? So even for Chevrons, we have standards that we look at that basically say, you know, should experience X number of accidents related to these signs over a certain time period and if those thresholds are met with some a little bit of discretion in there then we can we can place those signs on so that is that is little more than a request to us to say hey can you take a look at this we if you have incident data that you can provide that's helpful because the accident data that we use in our database doesn't include incidents. It only includes something where an officer was on scene and filled out a report there. So it doesn't include counter reports or some of the other kind of things that go out there. So our data is not necessarily totally complete, but it's also very clean if you understand the sort of boundaries of what it's for. So we can audit these locations ourselves. I was hoping we might be able to do it right here in front of you, but we're struggling with this.

Do you want to email us anything?

I can't even connect. Otherwise, I would patch into our crash database and be pulling what we're seeing.

Kind of what we'd hoped, but that's all right.

Do you have an HDMI? Maybe we could just plug you in. Actually, I don't know if we could maintain the Zoom.

I don't know how to go to that.

send us an email just as a formal request please look at these curbs for us and we'll take it from there which that means that if we get to that point then CEDAW just installs them yeah so that's for signs like Chevron signs if there was other types of warning signs out there that seemed appropriate like an intersection ahead sign or I don't know whatever, the passing line or passing signs, those kinds of things. Other signs like the radar feedback signs, like he was saying online there, that show your speed and things like that, those signs are not necessarily something that CDOT would provide. Those would be something that we would ask you guys to permit and then put out there. Sorry, for the radar? No, for the radar feedback signs. So he was saying the signs that they say, Speed limit 55, your speed is whatever. They say slow down or they flash or whatever. Those would be signs that CEDAW would not provide, but we would allow those if they made sense in a certain area.

You've probably seen the ones in midterm. Somebody in midterm got permission, got a permit from CEDAW to install that, and then they essentially own and maintain that device on the highway.

What are those called? Radar feedback, or speed feedback signs.

We have one going into town.

We have several of them. I was going to say, I think you have one on the south end, right?

Yeah, and on the north.

And Twin Lakes? And Twin Lakes.

And coming into town, where it goes from 35 to 25.

On 24 out by the east and west, coming into that area. The one coming in from Escondido,

That's a good one though.

Also, we were told that Camp Flash was loose. That's correct, yes. Okay. There's strict requirements in the national regulations on signage that they have to follow. At least on the highway. I think we're not going to do it in the county either.

We're not going to patrol the county, that's your opinion. On state highways, yeah.

Can I ask a question about the speed studies? Yeah. How do you get those to reflect accurately how fast people are going? Is there someone out there with a radar gun or is it on a tripod right there? You know, like from a driver's perspective, when you see something like that set up, you're going to slow down.

Yeah, so there's two ways that it's done. The original way is somebody would go out there with a radar gun in a non-conspicuous looking car and try to just find a place where they can pull up on the side of the road and sort of blend in and they would take the counts. Now, what we've been doing recently For most of our studies recently is we have these devices that we go out there and we just band them to a signpost and we leave them for a week and we come back and get the data. So they blend right in. You can't hardly tell that they're there if you're not looking. They're accurate. And so that's kind of the way we've been doing it lately.

Great. Thank you.

How many of those can we do at a time?

As many as we have.

I'm just wondering, to be able to heat map the speeds of Highway 91, not knowing where the speed is contributing to the crash that might be later on. Just wondering.

So what we do, if we're going to do a corridor like this, is we would take a look at it and go, OK, where do characteristics of the highway change? So as we near, for instance, a curve that we know is rated at a lower speed than the speed limit, we might put one right there. There's kind of an art to where you would place them, but that's one of the nice things about not having to have people out there with guns is you can put three of them up and just come back and you have all the information.

It's like a wildlife camera.

Yeah, it's kind of like that.

Okay, how do we ask for that?

Well, so that's something that you would do on your own.

We do it.

Are you talking about for speed cameras or for just in general?

In general, the study. The speeds, not for cameras, but just to understand the speed heat of that. Just to understand what the speeds are out there. Yeah, because there's lots of contributing factors to such a complicated roadway, right? And to such varied accidents in different places. Just how do we ask for that to compile the whole picture.

So everything there is a compilation of past efforts that have done exactly all this.

Yeah.

And so Unless something has drastically changed. We would want to really identify why we would go take another look at it or in what areas we would take a look because of some change, like what is different now than when we did the last speed study. And I don't know when the last speed study was done. It might have been several years. It's possible. I will tell you from experience that when we have speed limits out there that have been out there for years and years and we go back and take a look at them, very rarely do they ever change unless there is something, like I'm saying, like a big intersection that's gone in because of a development or something's been realigned in the highway or something pretty drastic usually. Otherwise, it's unlikely that it's going to really change anything.

To your point about doing, I mean, you're talking about looking at the entire corridor and where are the speeding problems. Is that what you're?

I think that the outcome that we're seeing is really fatal or drastic accidents. And if not, then near misses almost every time you go over. So high exposure to those fatal accidents. So how do we look at all of the potential causes to find the root cause that we need to tweak to actually change that outcome. And if there's a different way to do it, great. But I'm just wondering, like, yes, I know that a lot of work has been done to make it the way it is, but we're still seeing incredibly dangerous driving there. So what is the next step by looking at the whole and not being like, well, you know, State Patrol does this and CDOT does that. How do we as commissioners get enough information to look at the whole so we can ask the right person to change the thing that needs to be changed. Does that make sense of what I'm asking?

Yeah. So there's two components. One, we've got the physical highway. And two, we've got driver behavior. And I would say there's nothing out there inherently wrong or dangerous about the highway. That's how the drivers interact with that. But then it can become a problem. So speeding is one of those driver behaviors. the state legislature has given the tool to do speed enforcement cameras, that you can do that. So there's a part of, if you were to map the corridor, where people are speeding the most prevalent, and then target that with cameras. Then you've got the other aspect of where are people making poor choices in their driver behavior that are then also contributing to crashes, and then how do you specifically target that?

Yes, okay.

There's those three things. You've got the driver behavior of speeding, driver behavior of other risky maneuvers, and then how does the highway interact with those two things. And so I think it's a matter of looking at the crash data, the experience of those that are seeing it, responding it, and what could be done to address that behavior. And then you target the speed cameras where it makes the most sense. If you can target it, the handful of locations, will that bring the speed down elsewhere?

Right.

Don't know.

Right.

Or is it that, you know, the whole thought about speed bumps, when you play speed bumps, people slow down to go over the bump, and what do they do between the next bump?

They go faster.

They go faster. So if they see the camera, are they going to speed up between that and the next one?

Right.

Don't know if that's the case. We haven't had enough data to know on that yet. But those are the three areas that I think you're talking about focusing on.

Yes.

Just to... So this would be a thing where the county comes up with this effort to study and figure out where the speeding problems are occurring, where are those behaviors occurring, and then we work together to see what CDOT can do on the highway and what can you do on the behavior side from the county's perspective.

Does anyone know offhand the regulations around sign placement for speed cameras? Not flock cameras, speed cameras. If you could put the signs three miles, six miles, whatever out, that would contribute to people slowing down ahead of time and you'd maybe get more bang for your buck out of something like that. Does anyone know how far out you can put signs for that?

That's a good question.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure what the distances are. I know that there are specified distances in where the warning signs has to be because I think there has to be two of them. I think they have to be explicit. I think they have to, you know, there's already a layout of what the sign has to look like. I want to say that the distance in front the cameras is more like a quarter mile it's pretty close and it depends on the speed limit that's out there as to how far you would put it so those are all kind of part of the applications and stuff so I can't necessarily I tell you off the top of my head but I mean the corridors I believe can be fairly long you know I know the one that they have on 93 in Denver I think it's for several miles Um, even though a lot of the ones that we have in the region currently are, are very short, they're usually like quarter mile, but they're downtown kind of things. So, um, it'd be breaking a little bit of new territory for, you know, a rural application like this, but it's within the realm.

We're pioneers up here. Yeah. Okay. So regardless to, in order to find out where there are the high speeds, we need to do a speed study. And who we ask to do that is dependent on whether we're going to put cameras up.

Probably. It's an option to go through one of those vendors. There are other traffic consultants out there that have the equipment and can put up the units and measure it for you. OK. What he was talking about, you know, they're nicknamed the side fire radar because it's set to the side of the highway, wires the radar, and then collects the data. the Denver area that have nodes that can compile the data. Collected data.

Okay. And then in order to create the information about the risky behavior, the drive, irresponsible driving behaviors, that's where we would work with our sheriff to determine like where these risky behaviors and accidents are happening? Or how do we come, when you split it up into three, there was the speed, there was the risky driving behavior, and then there's how the highway interacts with all of those things. So how do we compile the information for?

So it's a combination of the crash data that CDOT has access to in conjunction with the other, you know, incidents that aren't reported but, you know, that the locals know about. You know, you talk, the near misses is the category that's, you know, how close was it to a crash, but it was a risky maneuver, risky behavior. And so being able to compile that information with the crash data to see what could be done. So it's CDOT, county sheriff, state patrol, getting together and saying, these are the locations that we're seeing it. We're checking the crash data and putting that together. One of the things to understand is we cover the entire region for CDOTs here. We have so many areas like this that unless there's initiative on the county side, we're not going to come in and do this unless it rises to the level within our crash data because we have so many areas that are up there. So if you're taking the initiative and bringing CDOT like you have today and you bring State Patrol together, then more is going to

That's what I thought. Awesome. Sweet. Just a second, Pete. I had one more question. So when it comes to near misses, should we be asking the public to call in near misses? Because otherwise, how would anyone collect that data? Except anecdotally from county commissioners. Yeah, like have you seen how people have compiled that data in the past?

In my work in this industry, the term near miss and focusing on it has only been in the last few years. So survey, those types of things would be a new frontier, I would say. I think you mentioned pioneering for this area. And so it is an option to collect that information Where are you seeing the issues out there? Where are you seeing the near misses?

Put that on a map.

We overlay that with the crash data. There's some aspect of our people exaggerating, so we have to understand what they're telling us, and how reliable is it, and what do we actually do with that information? Some of the near miss stuff that I talk about is When we have issues with people running red lights, we will set up cameras through, a vendor will set up cameras for us and collect 24 hours worth of video and then they're putting hard numbers to those near misses. People running red lights, how close were the cars, you know, within feet or within milliseconds, that kind of stuff, to an actual near miss. This is out on a rural county section on the state highway with the higher speeds.

we would not be able to put those cameras up to make any meaningful data out of that kind of a near miss okay but maybe we could like if we had enough information from our community about where they're experiencing near misses if we put a camera up and we do find something wouldn't that be could there be

Yes, I'm just saying that over a quarter of how many miles, trying to target the right spot to video near misses.

To actually catch one. That's why he says we usually do that kind of stuff at intersection because constantly, all day, there's near conflict. So that's kind of the main use.

We did a high use crosswalk adjacent to a ski area. 36 hours had over 300 potential near misses with pedestrians and when we say near miss that means it wasn't like they were about to get hit but they were within the parameters of the set for how close the car was to the pedestrian or they didn't yield to them that kind of thing that's where it's like you need a lot of activity on the county road you're like say highway in the county is may not be beneficial. These are pretty pricey studies. The typical intersection for 24 hours is about 10 grand. So going the route of asking, doing some sort of a survey to target those areas, where are people seeing it, and then that gives us a location or locations, a few locations to then focus our efforts and look at that might be much better.

We can do that. I'm thinking a big

map with pins yeah and anybody who comes into the courthouse can put a pin where they've had their message just spitball that's cool pioneering okay can you set up an online map could we do that yeah people can go to the websites drop a pin and the explanation of what what they saw what they

Let's go, let's make the highway safer. Okay, I hear that it's multi steps. I hear that it's multi agencies. There it is.

So I think a good next step for us is, like I said, I apologize we can't pull up the data we sent you, but we will take a look at the data that we have in this area, and I think we can do kind of a high level study like we do in other areas and identify hotspots, potential mitigations, kind of from our perspective. And if there's some information that you guys can gain, whether it's from a near miss stuff or speed information or whatever, I think we can come together after that and kind of maybe see where we land and maybe start to prioritize or look deeper. I agree.

I also hear loud and clear that if you potentially change behavior in one area, you might be pushing behavior to a different area and making it more risky. Totally hear that. So I just want to say, I'm not being overly enthusiastic about changing the highway. I'm being overly enthusiastic about collecting information to be preventative and not make things worse. OK.

So I mean, along those lines, we talked about guardrail on the S curve. could we target the behavior so that that guardrail's not needed?

Right. The chevrons versus the guardrail, right?

Right.

Yeah.

Yes. And so when I look at the crash data, and it's like, if we could eliminate no drinking and driving, people wearing seat belts, how many fatal crashes would go down?

Right.

And that's not a highway thing. That's a behavior thing.

Totally.

There's so many behaviors that could be targeted and will have way more impact than what we do on a physical island.

I think Highway 91 would need like an alarm clock program then. Everyone's in a hurry to get to where they left 10 minutes too late to go.

I was thinking the same thing, Andy.

You gotta swing by the liquor store and the weed store before you jump on that highway.

I didn't follow it, Matt. I'm sorry. I know. I just didn't follow it.

Sam, would it be helpful if we shared with the two of you the data from Chief Daley? Absolutely. About the incidents? Sure. Absolutely. Maybe some of the other emails. Yeah. The other systems. Yeah. Absolutely.

Well, from y'all's perspective, what questions should we be asking? Or where do you think that we could be targeting more of our efforts to change driver behavior as opposed to just working with CDOT and state troopers?

That's a tough question. That's something that we don't do a whole lot.

No, I'm just saying from your experience and your position.

I think any kind of seasonal campaigns are very helpful. We see that in some of the other areas where You know they're just trying to get messages out there. When snows you know early when already in the winter time and seasons change. You see things out there when you know there's going to be trick or treaters or events or things like that any kind of local campaigns on. what your safety folks are seeing or are expecting to see. I think that's helpful. I know that's, those are not always easy things to do, but sometimes there's little things that can be done. But I think promoting any of that kind of stuff at a local level is helpful. Okay, thank you.

You mentioned travel time.

Yes.

Where are most people coming from, commuting from? And then sitting down and calculating, what's the difference in 10 miles an hour of the speed limit versus going the speed limit. And then is that extra, is that saved five minutes worth the risk of a lifetime of someone dying or injuries that you're dealing with over a lifetime. Yeah, that's a great idea.

Do the math for them.

Yeah, and there's campaigns out there, but if you target, you've mentioned the commuters that left ten minutes late well is trying to make up that ten minutes worth the risk of what could occur and putting those messages out I mean you know CDOT works with State Patrol and we target the whole state but if you can target specific to the folks to and from this area it will be more meaningful

Pete Day, did you want to say something? I did. This is Pete. He's an ex parte member of the board representing the community.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is active enforcement, and maybe there's a reason for that. What about tickets issued by officers on the road, where they were issued? what the speed limit was exceeded by, tickets that were issued for passing in a no-passing zone. It seems like that's information that, if there is enforcement, should be available and should be part of the data set. And I don't know. There must be statistics on how many tickets have been issued on Highway 91 in Lake County per year, and then the backup for that.

Do you all get that from state troopers or just crashes?

We don't get that information, no.

You don't get the tickets?

State patrol would have that information, no. I'm sure your sheriff has a contact there. I think they would provide that.

Yeah, we need to get lots of data from Heath. Couldn't make it today.

He really wanted to, but... We don't see much state patrol activity. Right. And, you know, he could be out there a little more, too, in my opinion. That would help solve a lot. Like a camera, a stationary camera is one thing. Once the word gets out, like, look, I got a ticket. It looks like I'm on marker four. Then the word gets out. Whereas a sheriff's deputy could be anywhere, and the word would get out, too. Like, hey, I got a DUI. I'm around for work. So that's a good point, Pete. One other comment.

You know, there was discussion about how, you know, where the passing and no passing lanes, you know, where they are have changed over time.

You know, because I'm sure there was good reason for changing it whenever it was changed last time. You know, but maybe that could be re-evaluated. Because I think one of the issues other than speeding are people trying to pass slow trucks, multiple slow trucks at a time. If there were more passing lanes, legal passing lanes, then those might be, you know, used preferentially to the illegal passing lanes. So it seems like it ought to be available. You know, what's been changed over the years in terms of where the passing and no passing zones are?

Yeah.

Okay. Thanks, Peter.

Should we move on to Highway 24? We should discuss it?

Yeah, absolutely. There's a couple issues on Highway 24 for our CDOT friends. It would be helpful to have you here, but I understand if your schedule requires you to step out.

I'll be sticking around for a while longer.

Okay, great. So the next issue to discuss from 91 to 24 is related to some citizen concerns raised, I think, to a couple commissioners as well as through Public Works. related to access into the home state Trout Club. So we just wanted to give a little bit of background. I think this issue has come up several times over the years. Michael has some background on it. Just related to, you know, what is the county road, what is possible at that particular intersection given the narrow entrance, challenging emergency vehicles as well as larger truck deliveries and things, but the limitations that exist related to the cattle guard, etc. So if you don't mind, I'll hand that one to you.

We're going to pull it up on the map.

Let's go over here.

This bend is the cam guard right there.

So this doesn't actually show where the C-dot right-of-way monitor is. The C-dot right-of-way is outside of that. um that whole calendar is actually according to our property map is inside so that was a gate to a ranch at one time i'm not sure when the county took over canada 21 but it only goes through the ranch to private property now the private property on those both sides of that down to the highway now um

It is narrow across the Calgar.

There is coming down from the north side, which is 24. That's actually the west side. I'm off the Tennessee Pass. There's a corner just before it gets to this intersection. There you can see the island. OK.

Sorry. Catch up.

That looks really gradual on the map, but in reality that feels a lot sharper and blinder of a curve than it looks like right there.

Michael, which curve are you talking about?

Um, yeah, it's coming down from that way, but it's closer to the...

This one? This big curve?

Yeah, right there. Okay. And it's really, it doesn't look like it, but you don't have sight until you get around that corner. Um, which causes the problem with traffic, you know, invisibility. In my opinion, we need to look, this is actually a pretty big project to just change out of Coal, change out of Chattelburg. Is it what it was? For the county, we'd probably have to get in on the IMGPR because it's going to be really expensive to probably put in a decel lane and an excel lane out of that driveway or county road onto Highway 24.

I know there's problems with traffic turning into County Road 21 coming from the south or the east. Because you're stopping the lane, you have to wait for traffic to go by before it can turn.

Those are just some of the things that I've looked at out there that, in order to change this, it would take a pretty big CDOT project to do that. A CDOT-involved project, even if it's standing over the permits and everything.

Is there a way, like I know ideally we could have the XL, DSL lanes and do this in a way that it checks all the boxes. But like a lot of things in local government, we were just touching on this this morning, sometimes seeking perfection means nothing ever gets done. And I know one of the big issues these folks out here have is that if there's a fire, if there's a medical emergency, if there's a big truck delivery, they just can't get in there easily. It's such a narrow entrance. So in the meantime, while we're waiting for, you know, how to figure out how to do these bigger projects, why exactly can't we just widen the entrance?

thing is is it's not a permitted c dot entrance as it is um because i checked this without the right away people um it was never permitted it wasn't a county ground when it was first put in it was a driveway to my ranch the county took it over to make sure i believe to get people to the mom state So, you know, I don't know if that's why all of our access would have to be permitted, which, you know, kicks in a whole bunch of CDOT stuff.

Right away permits.

Yes, sir. My name's Sean Sprague. I'm with the Home State Travel Board. I'm the vice president of the board out there.

This has been an ongoing problem for six years now.

We approached the county when I was building my house out there during COVID. And

We approached the county because we had to get inspections to make sure that a fire truck could get to my house in order to get permanence. We have recently put almost a million dollars into the trial club and fire mitigation. We're trying to become the first association in Lake County to be fire-wise. So we've got grants from the state. We've also done a ton of work ourselves. And we've met with Dan's team here to improve the roads, the bridges. All the culverts have been extended to over 20 feet wide. And we're trying to meet the class one classification for a fire truck to go in there. And this simply doesn't. That's 13 feet wide. The dip in the middle, which is extremely dangerous, is over the restrictions for a class one truck to go over that. It dips almost a foot, foot and a half. Um, and so in order for us to really achieve that, you know, you guys have dealt with this fire situation. We've, this has not just reacted to willow fire. This is something that has been ongoing for the last three to four years. This fire mitigation that we're trying to achieve. We have homeowners that can't even get insurance out there. So, um, we were proposing just a simple gate widening, which, uh, I've reached out, we've reached out as a team, I guess it's to say other board members have reached out to the state to get clarification on the issue that he's speaking to about what would need if we just did a simple gate replacement. So the simple gate replacement was not going to trigger any of the warnings. I have emails from that, and that was over five years ago that we had that.

We also had what I would call bad faith from the county have told not to speak about this issue, which we are very aware of.

And so we had to reach out for counsel on this. So we reached out to counsel. All we're simply looking for, from Homestake's perspective, maybe when the, you know, our understanding is that we are an existing homeowners association, and the less we were putting in a new homeowners association you would need those turn lanes and that kind of upgrade but because we're not we're an existing homeowners association and I have emails to show that I've got clarification on this that all we simply need to do is widen the gate 20 feet wide is what we're looking for a newer gate they put a newer gate across the highway that doesn't serve any we asked for this to get done but yeah if we have that map of close call incidents it would be a daily mark on this it's a very dangerous turnout in fact there's a depth just right up the street that there was people speed on that section 55 guarantee it's 70 as an average through there so We're just simply asking that the county do and work in good faith with us since it's been a six year process that we get the gate widened immediately. We've asked for it for six years. It's been put off. We've been slow played pretty big on this. We're not a lot of smart people working here. I run Metro District. I know how the process works. We're hoping we can at least and it probably wasn't budgeted for at any time for going forward. I'm sure it's not budgeted now, so we're just looking to see if we can get on a budget, at least get the gate replaced, and then as the people in Trout Club are becoming yearly, just a quick background, to buy a house, she's a real estate agent, she knows, to buy a house, you have to pay cash. So to simply buy six, you know, there's little cabins in there too, But simply by $500,000 cash offer for a house there, you know, you can tell what kind of clientele we're starting to get out there. We do have a lot of people that have got their cabins hammy down, but that's now changing. We got year-round access. We got people that have come up here in the ski season. So, yeah, I mean, we really, I think the gate could go away. We'd be happy with that. There's no, we don't have horses or cattle I know Colorado is a fence, what is it, a fence out state, which is odd.

Sean, can I ask you, I don't see a gate.

No gate.

Oh, you keep saying gate. The guard.

The guard, yeah. So there's no real reason to have a cattle guard there?

No, so you can see there's a fence to the south, which is the left of that picture. If there were ever going to be any kind of horses or anything, that property, the property to the, north, which is to the right, has never been used for grazing or any purposes like that. So truly, I think the point where you don't really need one there, and our homeowners really don't want one. So it's really difficult to pull in, because you kind of have to pull in, and you're almost scared to pull in at a slow speed. So you kind of have to pull in, and there's no apron there.

gravel you can see the damage in the lower left there from the gravel meets the yeah if you bring your mouse to the left a little more sorry yeah right there yeah yeah that's created because there's no apron so maintenance is probably an issue with that for the highway department at some point that it doesn't bother anybody right now but but yeah I mean I just think right now

we'd love to see the gate disappear or at least get to where we can safely get a truck in and out during any kind of emergency, have better access. That's our concerns.

So a couple questions for those involved here. So we heard earlier, this is a county road.

Yeah, it's county road 41, so it's a county road sign.

Okay, so county has jurisdiction over the access, but Private homeowners, farther back, is the association. When was that, when was the development put in? 1934. So a long time ago. A long time.

Okay.

So there's some issues on grandfathering accesses in. 1979 was the year that the highway access law was put into place. Anything at that point is grandfathered in. But then there's also a provision that as traffic increases over time, then the provisions of the code will kick in. But as a county road, you could apply for a CDOT highway access permit and go in there and do the widening that you needed to. And part of that permit would say, depending on what the traffic volume show, but it may show that left turn decel, right turn decel, all of those. Auxiliary lanes would be up for looking at whether they're required or not for the law. But at a minimum, you could come in, first step, just widen the access, do what you need to do, and then budget for the larger projects to come in and do the turn lanes at another point. CDOT would prefer that this is not on CDOT right-of-way and that cattle guard should be moved.

it stays or if it's taken out yeah yeah but if it something needs to say that would be part of the permit as you move it off of the seat on right away so that it's farther back so one of the things with with access permitting is let's just say that by the book this location warrants a couple turn lanes okay doesn't happen so You don't necessarily have to go to that extent to do anything. If you're just doing a betterment, it doesn't necessarily have to meet every standard by the book that we would like to see there, because it's still better than what you got. So we do have the ability to permit betterments, like what you're talking about.

One clarifying point on that, that works for public roads.

private access, that's not the case. Just to reiterate this, I'll say it twice. For a public road, you have the option to do things in increments as abettorments.

And just to be clear, we can just take the guard out, right?

There's no... Yeah, I guess they're saying I can take it out.

I mean, I think our board has really felt like this issue has been kind of put aside by the county for quite some time. We brought it up to previous commissioners, and I coach volleyball. I've been here for a long time, 30, 31 years now, and I've actually had some

purposely which is kind of painful and hurtful that you know I know my wife pulls out of there every day so you know I think just moving forward would be nice that it's acknowledged this meeting's amazing that it's acknowledged and it's on the radar and it's something that we look to improve yeah I mean our board would love to just and done like that. How many homes are up there? We have 72 cabins. And some are seasonal? Yeah, it's starting to increase. We're getting a lot more year-round. In fact, I would say seasonal, but they're using it both winter and summer now. Because we used to not plow all the roads back there, but now we plow everything with the road improvements that we've made. So there's probably only 20 residents, give or take, uh now that are permanent year-round um but i would say the majority of them are using it in the winter now just for the ski cabin effect kind of thing well sean we'd really like to do the work at this point yeah that would be great it seems like a really reasonable request so we'll try and make it happen maybe next next

Next year? I know this year is tight with the fire.

I've lost the summertime already. I understand. I run a metro district. I understand how it all works. You've got a budget for it. So I'm not expecting this to happen in this budget year.

I don't know how your guys' budgets are set up.

But I would hope that we would look to maybe get that on future plans for sure.

We do try and avoid one-off expenses.

Just to make a point, we haven't had a lot of work on this service. Yeah, a lot. We have changed all the culverts out on it. The main crossing there. This one was proposed for one of our new bridges, but we only had a chance to buy it. So this one was the last one to drop, but that's why we changed to put all new culverts in there. So that was one of the first ones we did in that system of the river flowing down the valley. Make sure it would all flow pretty good. The beavers like it up there.

There's a couple of beaver dams on Tennessee Creek that are getting really close to the highway right away, or the highway surface.

Can I ask a clarifying question just longer term about the future of the road itself? Is there, so if I'm understanding correctly, it only provides access to Homestake. Is there any benefit to Homestake or benefit to the county that this road itself would be committed to Homestake?

I think that was mentioned for sure. We've had several discussions about it. I think especially after they've done the improvements to the river there and access.

Yeah, I mean, it has to get permission from you guys to go that direction. And we would have the means, no problem. We have the equipment and we have a really amazing caretaker who would love to pull that gate out. But I think that comes down to you guys giving us access or permission to be a full private road.

Michael, on your side of things, what is that? It's about a mile of road that we maintain. We do go all the way to the clubhouse because we have to turn around and get out. Where the properties start in the fort, where the county road actually ends, there's no place to turn around there.

Well, that sounds like a solution or possible solution. Is there any drawbacks? Did we lose any funding or does it cost more to maintain?

Well, the betterment permit will only work for a public road, which I think is something we might lean on to get the widening done, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Good catch, Andy.

I mean, it could be problematic for any future development is the only thing out there. Right. You could convey it in such a manner that I think you could preserve that with, you know, preserving easements and so forth for the county, but that's the one thing you'd want to think about is the future.

Is it something that the county could maintain ownership and delegate the maintenance?

We could probably do something like that. Well, Sean, we're going to follow up with this, and I'd really like to see it. It seems like simple. It seems overly complicated and simple at the same time. Thank you. So sorry it took so long. Yeah. Keep following up. I know this has been on Andy's radar for a long time. Yeah.

I think that my impression, Andy's brought it up a few times to us, and my impression has been trying to figure out who is responsible for what has been the biggest lift for us as new BOCC and all of our new staff. Now that we're here, happy to move on it. Yeah.

It's clear now. Sometimes it's hard to understand what the past and all that stuff, but it's great to now have some clarity and know that it's got to be on the list.

I'm also really sorry for how you've been treated, that you've been working on this for so long and have felt so discouraged. It's not how you, I'm really sorry about that.

It's okay. It was just kind of a stick in the eye when you're out there doing fire mitigation and the guy from the fire department is telling you that your roads must be good for us to bring a fire truck to your house, which is what you want. You see a fire out your window, which you got great views this year. And then you know that he's telling you 20 foot wide and you know that the very entrance of your community is not that. So yes, it was a was why I asked to be on the board. Homestake I'm usually pretty busy guy other than that I run a Metro District and I coach for so long so I actually asked on it because my wife had several really close calls out there if you're trying to stop and someone doesn't want to stop behind you to turn left to go in there they go around you and that's really So that's why I'm here.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sean. We'll follow up. So just to reiterate on the CDOT process, you would apply for Highway Access Permit to do any work in the highway right-of-way. So even lighting on the side of the highway would require that because it's in a right-of-way.

And in order to do the betterment, it would have to stay in public road. Otherwise, the study group tends to require a massive group.

And it might be worth doing a study just to see what's there anyway.

I don't know. Can we do the betterment and have an agreement, like you said, where the Homeowners Association is maintaining the right with the county?

What happens beyond the CDOT right-of-way is between you and the Homeowners Association. Okay.

But this is definitely in the CDOT right-of-way.

Well, that's what I'm hearing. I was trying to pull it up on my phone, but now I've lost connection on my phone, too.

No, what is happening?

There's publicly accessible. You can see what CDOT shows for right-of-way boundaries also, in addition to your county AGM. So that's why I decided to look at it.

And that is the same permit process, and we're just going to do the betterment. work at the access and it would also fall into that process just something generally to be aware of for everyone in this room we have applied for the safe streets and roads for all grant to take a look at county all county roads this was sort of precipitated by what's going on on county road 4 at the lake but this would certainly fall into the scope of that that project and i don't know if that you know, assists or advances the study, you all would need to allow for an additional project in that area, or if there's something specific you have to do.

Yeah, so this is a plan for all of the county roads that they have to look at, not just County Road 4, but this is one of them, so. Okay. I mean, since I'm living, it just flows through.

Sure. On that road study, once we have it done, it opens us up to apply for additional grant funding that will come out.

Okay.

Okay, any other issues, Josh, that we need to talk about on 24?

I think, so if we're done talking about Homestake, we do have another topic for Highway 24 South. Okay. The CPD and Public Works are currently considering a driveway permit at 2100 Highway 24 South. driveway access that drops directly down on Highway 24. So again, we accessed off the state highway. And Anne has some background to share on this, and I believe we also have Tom Marson of Marson Engineering should be joining us. He has some background on the design of this particular site. There's some cold air in here since this is a driveway.

Do we want to look at this spot? Thank you. I sent it to Bo. Sorry about that. No worries. I'm just going to slide it in there. Yeah, so if you can get to the location, I have sent an email to the person who should be joining us soon here.

A little bit further. Oh, excuse me. It's almost to the tunnel extension.

Yeah, yeah. Wait a second. Let me just orient myself. I do know where it is. Give me a second. It's like up here?

A little bit more. A little more south?

Game changer.

Game changer.

There you go.

Here it is. And then.

Yeah, right down there. Right where the. This. Yes. Yep.

Do we want to look at it here? Should I put stuff on Teams? Andy, I'll share with you.

Okay, thank you.

The engineer design for the driveway. So I've sent a quick email. Tom's been multitasking, I think.

And will be joining us in a moment.

So just a little background on this. This is the county's access here that we allowed the property owner to utilize for access for their driveway. This parcel is one of our favorite probate plots out in E.E. Hill. And so our first thought is, wow, this is quite the site to develop. But it did have a plated ability to access at this point. They approached Michael about being able to use our CDOT access point. And so they did coordinate with CDOT on the access. And then this driveway design is something, obviously, it's been very challenging. So they came in for building permit. and applied for the driveway, I did place a stop work order on this driveway until we could get an engineer design on it. So they worked with one design and recently they disengaged with their previous engineer who actually had retired and have contracted with Marson Engineering. And this is a redesign of the driveway access. This gives a lot of public scrutiny and concerns from our previous board as well as current board about the safety. So we've worked really closely with Brian Killian from CDOT and Candace from CDOT. We've done site visits at the site to look at the engineer design. This was the previous design. Michael goes by this obviously every day and is really our eyes in real time to make sure that we have stability of that slope and safety to kind of alleviate safety concerns. But we do take a lot of concern comments from the adjacent property owner, Paul Irwin, in this area. And so this does get elevated to Michael and I often. So just wanted to include this today to give you kind of a situational update of where we are in the process. The building permit has not been extended yet until we can make sure that this new engineered design is approvable. The driveway permit needs to be updated with the new design. So Michael, today I think you wanted to kind of take that opportunity to hear from Tom Marson on the new design. Hopefully, there he is. Tom is with us. If we can kind of, before we introduce Tom, is there any questions that you have in regards to kind of the history and what led us to where we are today?

Let me have a little bit more history to add to that. OK. Access was actually approved and permitted by CDOT prior to these people owning this property.

It was for an adjacent property that had to use the same access.

It would be a public road, not technically a county road.

Because it's in that subdivision.

But that's why the county had to approve them accessing CDOT. And that was permitted back in like the early 2000s, 2005, something like that.

engineering work or topography that they would need to make these feasible.

So it was the driveway property that originally petitioned the county for the ability to use the access to put in the road, but that road design has never come to fruition. So this is the first improvement that's coming off of that in the form of the driveway.

So, Ann, just to be clear, when he got his construction permit, he didn't have a driveway permit? He did.

Oh, and then, when I know that the first permit was by Michael and but when we did a bit of review looking at the attributes of the driveway and I started seeing the actual earthwork happening on site, I actually I did a stop work. concern about a lot of the design elements of this driveway and so we did a stop work order and then that was the first time we received the engineered design and then Tom has come in and redefined that design so can I just ask one more question actually two because that was the first one let's see so when did all this has this been because that's been built that's been

It's been going on for three years now. Oh, gosh.

That would be a really good question of how long. I would say, I think this was right when I took over the directorship. So I think it was right in 2022 that we started on this project.

OK. All right. Thank you.

Just a little more background to you. When Michael says public road and talks about the probate courts, probate courts have the ability essentially subdivide property without county approval. It can go in, any court can go in and issue an order. And so what happened is this property all got essentially subdivided into lots through a court process, not a county process. And the court put on the plat that these are public roads, even though I don't think we've officially accepted any of those roads or maintain them. So public roads is kind of a loose term, not necessarily a county road, but it's really a little bit undefined what public road means and what the context will be.

Isn't there access from up above, too?

That's where the contention comes in. Right. Because that belongs to our...

So I'm jumping ahead. No.

We went to the previous council and looked at what the plan showed, but we couldn't establish an easement that could be utilized in order to gain access from up below. And that was the first solution that we tried to, what I put in the sub-report is the first thing I started working with our previous land use council to see if we could go back and establish access from a better bearing point, a more reasonable access. But we weren't able to do that, and we did not have the cooperation from the adjacent property owner. Okay.

All right. Well, shall we hear from Morrison Engineering? How's it going out there on the driveway?

Well, I haven't looked at it in a little bit, but we did drop some plans. It was pretty much a redesign from the original permanent plan because there were some unique features in the permanent plan set that we didn't understand why they were there or how they could be built. They include an original plan set at an approximate 18-foot wall on the fill slope, which is the steeper cobble slope that faces the hallway, and a six-foot wall on the uphill side. It had a 30-foot wide platform on top, I bet that these retaining walls were built. A normal driveway width is 12 feet wide. So why they drew it at 30 feet wide, I don't know. And there was, again, a retaining wall on the downhill side that started partially up the steep slope. So it wasn't protecting all the steep slope, this proposed retaining wall. Talking to the Thompsons, they didn't want to build a fill wall. I don't think they need to build a fill wall. That means on the downhill side, putting in a wall and filling. So maybe we could look at a plan. I have my colleague, Chan. So my name is Tom Marson. I'm a civil engineer and land surveyor. I own Marson Engineering. I've been practicing in the bot since 1995. That's my background. Marson Engineering has about 20 personnel.

Martin Hoerlinger, We yeah if the host can enable a screen share, we can pull up some of our plans.

Shirley. Okay, you should have screen sharing ability. And I might have accidentally muted you sorry. Nice, we can see that. But you're still muted, just FYI.

OK. Give us a moment. Is that large enough when you guys end?

Sure.

OK, so. This year we call our site plan and helps us get orientated with what's going on out there. You can see Hwy 24 and then you see a lightly gray shaded. Road. That goes up up the hill. That is what they've built to date. Um? And that roughly matches the original design plan with the exception of, can you guys see my cursor?

Yeah.

Around here, there was scheduled to be an 18-foot wall for the request of the Thompsons. And we don't see why it was needed. We've eliminated that wall on that steep slope. But to get the proper slope laid back, the road had to move over into the hill a little bit from the alignment that they built. So the darker shaded area is the engineered road that we've drawn. A slight variance in the, we're requesting a variance, which I don't think should be a big deal. At the entry, it's a 40 foot radius, and at the switchback, it's also a 40 foot radius in total. 50 by the land use code. We'll need some retaining walls. You can see the bright green. That's a green space. It's a two-tiered boulder retaining wall, so it's proposed on the uphill side. The downhill side will just be braided. I know there was a lot of concern there, so we did some studies. I'm going to have a chance to flip the pages here. Yeah, we'll just cut to the steeper part. Flip up to the plan view again. So you see those cross sections? What are the cross sections there? This one. OK, scroll in. So you see numbers like 5 plus 0, 0. 4 plus 0 is 0. That's where these cross sections are drawn. 4 plus 0 is 0, 4 plus 50, 5 plus 0. And tomorrow we'll go back and look at the cross sections. That's good. It's going to take a minute. Well, here's an example of what we're proposing. And it also indicates what they've built. You see the blue line? That's the steepest we'd want to stack this type of probably one and a half to one. So for every foot of drop, we need to go up horizontally. We have a more design with a dash line that's a 1.7 to one and you can see what the listing slope is we did an analysis we did the initial topo on this property and some of this has been disturbed but not greatly we compared the topos who about the same so this slope had been standing at at that layback for um probably decades if not longer We just pulled the road platform back. You can see where they've currently built the road platform. And then at the tip of our blue line here, you can see where the proposed road platform is. This is one of the worst cross sections, meaning more challenging sections to get through. And there's quite a bit of pulp on the uphill side that's not 100% refined, but we get the idea that they're going to have to move some material around to get this to work. The red line that's vertical on this cross section indicates the right of way. So on the left side, it's the highway right of way. On the right side, it's the private property of that vertical red line. And then the edge of traveled way is marked with an X and a little tag on the far left side there. At 1.5 to 1 or flatter, it's not likely that a boulder will roll or if it does, it won't go very far. It'll alter the total flow. But we're going to stop it and remove any loose scree or boulders on there. And we would anticipate that the material would be stable after that. Hold on.

Wait, can I get clarification on that real quick? You're going to request that they remove any loose boulders or any loose debris? Is that what you heard?

Yeah.

Okay, thank you. Who would be responsible for ensuring that that's happening?

Well, the... Uh, the contractor would be the 1 responsible to make that happen. And I think the county has requested that we do periodic inspections on the construction of this work. So we'll go out and. Confirm that they built this to what we intended them to build to.

Great Thank you.

Hey, Tom, this is Michael and I do have a question if you want to go back and see where the access is to the highway. I believe the speed up from it says it has to be a 90 degree axis from mine. And I think it turns really quick, maybe leaving the high level.

Our screen's got to catch up. Just hold on.

Yeah, it's trying. There you go.

OK, so you can see in the lighter gray shading, that's what we've built. And you can see in the darker gray shading, that's what we've designed. So we have a 45 tangent per the CDOT access code. So it's a 45 straightaway 90 degrees to Highway 24. So it will be a 90 degree access. The original plan was not drawn that way.

It ends right there in the green section? And that's all the right-of-way that's permitted with the CDOT permit? A 40-foot tandem looks good.

We realize that in these challenging terrain situations, it's not always possible. So it's good to see that much is possible.

Who was just making those comments?

That's Mark from CDOT.

Do you guys ever allow a variance to the 40 foot tangent?

Occasionally. The variance would be more on the 40 foot length because we want that passenger car to be able to pull up and have good sight line both directions. So it would be more about shortening the 40 foot before we would entertain something that's not perpendicular to the highway.

Sure. So that's where I was going. We've been meaning to reach out to you and catch you live in front of everybody, but it might help these guys a little bit where we see that green wall. We see a boulder, a green space and a boulder wall. We'd be able to reduce that a little bit if we could reduce that tangent. But I wanted to get this concept in front of everybody if it's if it's light this is a 90 percent set if it's not liked and we'll you know we'll go back to the drawing board and tweak it for the requests of this meeting from the county regardless of the radius is proposed at 40 that tangent might be able to be reduced a little bit but it will be a 90 degree access Once we get up to station two plus zero zero, we'll be in that alignment. So reducing that tangent would just pull this out of the hillside a little bit and less walls would need to be built, less earthwork. But again, this alignment, once we get through this, these corners would follow the same track.

Yeah, you answered my question.

So just talk with, go through Brian Killian on that request on the variance. Or Nick, if you're at that stage in the process. No request.

So just really from zero plus 40, which means 40 feet from the highway to two plus zero zero, that would be just modified a little bit if we could shorten up that tangent. But otherwise the road going up the slope, the driveway would remain in that same location. We're proposing a 16-foot wide platform. And that's what's drafted here and stated. With 12 feet being the traveled way and a four foot buffer for guardrail or they might want to do earthen berm or boulders or something. But there needs to be some protection to prevent vehicles from going over the side of this. We have a A pullout proposed up at the switchback. Since they've already graded that area, it's not a big deal for them to install that. I would probably place one at the midpoint between the entry and the switchback also. Less robust, what you see there.

So kind of our hope today was to bring Tom in, answer any questions about the design that the board had, and also let you know that this will be put into final review and final approval of the driveway would be in Michael's court to review the design, approve potential variances from the county standpoint, and then direct them to work with Brian or CDOT on a variance requested on the access permit. We wanted to create some awareness that that's where your staff is working on ensuring the safety of this driveway and ensuring compliance with our code as well as working with CVOD for compliance on the access permit. So happy to answer any questions you might have. Thank you.

I don't have any questions. Do you have any questions?

You know, I don't have, this spells things out really clearly for me and will give me a little bit of information to relay back to any concerned public members. And all of this information that we're looking at right now, is that something that you have ready access to, to allay concerns? I mean, this has been a, Pretty contentious topic. I know that the BOCC has been approached in not entirely professional manners about how this whole thing's been handled. And I just want to make sure that we get all this information out to the people who might have the wrong idea about how all this is going down.

Absolutely. This information is available in the team's folder. We provided the preliminary design. Like Thomas indicated, we're at like 90%. So we haven't fully approved this yet. It's still in review. But everything that we have in the building department is transparent and shareable. But this particular design is in your team's folder now.

Okay, great. Thanks. I've been trying to open it and it's like real glitchy, but maybe it's because I'm on my computer watching the meeting and I'm trying to open it on a mobile device. So it probably takes a lot of processing power to look at these files.

Well, go ahead and just, I can send it directly to your email if you'd like.

That would be great. Thank you.

Well, Mark, thanks for working on that. We appreciate it. Keep an eye on them and we'll move forward with this. We'll try and move forward.

Thank you.

You're welcome, everybody. If there's any further questions, I don't know.

Appreciate it.

No questions from us. Good luck.

All right. Thank you.

OK. OK, so a real quick interview before we completely leave the state highways and move to the discussion about the Grand US 10-mile deliveries. Just for board awareness, a recent development, when I saw Kirchweiler was here a moment ago, it looks like he had to step out. Kurt had approached the Friends of Twin Lakes board in the county about potentially collaborating on a grant down in Twin Lakes. It was a DOT grant specifically around federal lands access. And they were thinking creatively about how they could utilize this funding to create safer access and crossings from the village side onto the federal land, the parking area, rest area, and the trails are over there. Given the timeline of that grant, both Friends of Twin Lakes and the county really didn't have capacity to pursue that. I would need to really think through what a partnership could potentially look like to get into that. But one thing that did come out of the discussion that we've been running down on the county side is Friends of Twin Lakes has asked for us to place some traffic counters right down there at the village so we can get a good count and some data for potential future grant applications that might consider some safety measures across Highway 82 there. Nothing more for real discussion at this point unless you have questions, but that was just an awareness item for everyone. I think we have one piece of information left to get the approval. And so we're hopeful to have that place for Labor Day weekend to get a kind of a busy weekend down there to get a really sense of the traffic counts. Unfortunately, Kurt's not here to say thank you directly to you, but we appreciate them sort of thinking through those partnerships and bringing that to our attention down there. Any questions about that one? Okay, Mr. Day, I believe we'll pass the microphone to you to give us some background on the Sure, sure.

It's Grand West States. And, you know, I guess I just want to take the opportunity to thank Michael and his team. It's taken a few years, but, you know, we've made a number of improvements made there. Additional speed limit signs in strategic places. The little yellow tags that say, what do they say? No exit. No exit, you know, on the cul-de-sac roads. Striping on the On the highway, it was refreshed a couple of years ago. What else did you do?

We did paint double yellow lines on the road.

The yellow tags. Did you get the cameras? That's what's in the package. A lot of information from the cameras.

So I just wanted to thank the county and Michael in particular for know for doing all of that we actually met all our our requests except for for one that has a cdot implication as well that not just county road 99 but other county roads are are weight limited for for heavy trucks you know but if you're driving down a state highway um you have no way to know until you make the the turn that it's a county road and it's it's weight restricted So I guess my, you know, my question is, is there, is there any way to put signage, you know, when you're entering the county on, on state highways to, you know, to indicate that the county roads are, you know, are weight limited. Otherwise, you know, a semi truck turning, you know, turning onto county 99, you know, sees the weight limit sign, you know, maybe 50 feet off down the county road, but you know, has no choice, but to, you know, but to keep going.

So how,

You know, just from a general perspective, is there any way to alert, you know, truck drivers to weight-restricted roads before they actually turn onto them?

Yeah, so it's not a problem. I mean, we can absolutely permit a sign that says, you know, intersection ahead, name of the intersection, and maybe it has a placard that says that it's weight-restricted or something like that. It's no problem at all. So what's the procedure for doing that? send us a request and what the sign would look like, and we would do a simple special use permit for that.

I know the agenda item had an intriguing thing about semi-trucks. There was one issue a few years ago where this came to point, that Lupin Lane is one of the cul-de-sac roads off of County 99, and in the middle of winter, a semi-truck had had turned right onto Lupin Lane, gone up the hill, and then there was a cul-de-sac turnaround and gotten completely stuck. Why? Google Maps must have told them what to do, and they did. And that's why the yellow tails are helpful to indicate that the cul-de-sac roads have no access. So that was the intriguing teaser on the agenda item. That only happened once, but it created quite a bit of chaos to get that truck I think they had to back out or something. I don't remember the particulars. So the only other issue with County 99 that we broached both to Michael and the sheriff was enforcement. It's turned into a real racetrack. There have been several accidents. Dan may know about this. As you're going west, and you make the curb and you go down towards Leadville Junction. There have been several cars that have gone off the road at a high rate of speed on the downhill side, actually knocked trees down. One of them a couple years ago just broke a tree. I don't think it was a fatality, but increased enforcement, not just on 99, but on all county roads, I think is warranted. recognizing the resource limitations. But there's a lot of speeding on County 99. I think Mabel can probably attest to that as well. So greater enforcement would be real easy for a sheriff's deputy to park on one of the cul-de-sacs and just do a radar hit of traffic going by. So that's just our last request in some way. you know, to increase enforcement, not just on this road, but, you know, but all county roads. And again, it'd be interesting to know, you know, how many speeding tickets have been issued on County Road 99, if any.

That's the back way everybody uses the map. They go from 99 to get on to 24, but then it's 90, 4, and 5. It just continues.

Well, all maps will actually route you that direction if you're coming from the south and heading up to 24, too.

You know what else I noticed, too, is it's a great, right where the trees end there, that's a great place to throw your beer cans. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it's a... Both sides of the road, this thing would just line with garbage.

Yeah, we're usually able to assess what the drinking trends are in Lake County, just by picking up trash along that road. But again, did the traffic count so so we'll see because because of all the traffic you know but but appreciate appreciate the efforts to you know to you know to make those improvements only took three or four years six years so I guess we feel very lucky tenacity as it's rewards okay

Shall we move on to this next item? Are you all done? Josh, how can we follow up? Who's going to follow up on that?

I do have some information to share. I know it's in the package, but just some speed statistics on that road. It's really scary. 95% of the people drive faster than 90 miles an hour. Yes, 90 miles an hour. The highest speed was recorded at 99.3.

I'm sorry, you said 90% of the people who drive on that road go 90 miles an hour?

95 percent. The 95 percentile is higher than 90 miles an hour. Wow. Oh, the 90th percentile.

Wow, that's super different, Michael.

Wasn't there a little underground kind of racing scene that was popping up over there by Leadville Junction for a minute? Like, I felt like I could hear them from Leadville North, and then you could see the burnout marks everywhere. I thought that was, but I haven't heard it in a year or so maybe, but it was something that I wonder if anybody had any recollection of.

No, they just like speeding on that road.

Yeah.

They're in a hurry. You're talking about maybe speed cameras on state highways, but certainly there's also opportunities for speed cameras on county roads, especially where there are the big straightaways.

I'm honestly curious what Heath's patrolling is like. I think this has come up multiple times in this room. And we haven't really got, I do wish he was here today. We haven't really gotten much of an answer from him about patrolling practices. Especially in some of these hot spots around the county.

That's a good question, Elsa. I feel like Mountain View kind of funnels right into the whole Leadville North area too. And it's the same sort of situation all the way down Mountain View. It's really hard to pull out. It's a 30 mile an hour speed limit, but nobody drives 30 on Mountain View.

I do. I do. Just to be clear. I do, too. I catch myself sometimes.

I probably have a low speed on this one, too, at 9.2 miles an hour.

There's Michael, fluttering around again.

Holding up traffic.

Yeah, it's boring to go that speed on that road. Do you have a copy of it? Oh, perfect.

Thank you.

Well, one way to increase speeds is to repave everything. So that's next on our agenda here, the 2026 pavement and pothole repair schedule.

All right, appreciate it.

Thank you guys so much. Guys, thanks for coming. You betcha.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think I'm going to get out of here.

OK, Sean.

Yeah, have a good day, guys. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks, Johnny. Can we pull up the Website. Information on the website. The website?

Lake County website?

Yes.

Lake County website?

Yes. Which one? What are we pulling up?

Go to Road and Bridge or Public Works. Public Works, Road and Bridge.

And down the bottom is stuff on the side.

Could we screen share this if you guys are looking at something I can't see?

Yes, thank you Andy.

Thank you.

So currently everything in the light blue color is what we're supposedly doing this year. until we just got cut out from our asphalt course. Oh, really?

Bummer.

Because they weren't able to make enough material, being shut down with the willow fire.

Got it. I'm working on a backup plan for buying asphalt from BB again. It just means higher-priced asphalt.

So I haven't figured out exactly what I have to cut out of this year right now.

Are asphalt plants non-operable?

will not be operational people that are out there that were out there making are out there making asphalt right now so we would be three to five million dollars to replace that or to bring it up to no operation so thirty thousand dollars in there in my budget but we have started county road 11 already we've got the east side lane almost you can Highway 300. The other side we got into about 50% of it before they couldn't make an asphalt for us. So we will definitely finish that. We need to get asphalt over the bridge on County Road 5A, the kind of blue dot over on that corner. Over the loop. I would love to do 9B and the bottom of Mountain View. A lot of traffic, and they're pretty well going up. That part of Mountain View was not the big project going from Mountain View from Highway 24 to Silver Hills. Once we get, if we can get a lot of this done, that ties a whole lot of roads that everybody uses.

100% use at some point or another.

The next few years, we can start looking at moving into town, doing streets. I was just talking to Matt earlier about writing some letters to give them out to residents, utilities, and stuff that if they're gonna need to put something in the road, like sewer lines, gas lines, water lines, that they get it done before this time because they won't be allowed to do it afterwards for at least two years.

So we don't have like what happened out here on 6th Street

They repaved it and the next year they're cutting it up or cut it up and they're doing more of it now. So looking at, there is a legend, you probably can't see it, but the next year is Red Lines.

Mm-hmm, 2027.

And there's those streets in town, but there's also some down towards Twin Lakes and some patching down around towards Twin Lakes. We can't even have 10 down there is a big one, but I'm also looking at some other options with that one because the asphalt is actually still in pretty good condition. It's cracked and the cracks are sinking. So if I can get those filled up and maybe do a couple of chip seal over the top of it, kind of like we did the airport. I know the airport's coming back, but that was like six or seven years ago. Get some more life out of that asphalt because it's actually good asphalt. A lot of our asphalts are really good. That's why I'm just doing overlays right now. And then come back and do chip seals over the top of them to make them go another 10 to 15 years. And like Grand West, we did with Grand West and a bunch of those roads out there. And they're all in really good condition still, so. That's our plan. And like I said, they're in the legend on there someplace. I'm just not sure where it is.

now, up to 2030. It also has our bridge projects on there that we're supposed to be doing.

This summer, we're supposed to be doing one for the Forest Service in Half Moon Creek.

We're supplying the labor, but it's part of that grant, too. I was hoping to be able to get two this summer, but I don't even have the bridge for County Road 4 ordered yet. I'm still waiting on engineering.

So that will probably be next to the bridge.

County Road 4 is up in the air. We just don't know what we're going to do there.

Yeah, I mean, the bridge is being designed almost to where they can order it.

Oh, I see. They're just working with the bridge people to make sure it fits in everything in there right now. So the final plan should be available to construct the bridge or to manufacture it. I just don't know if we'll get it in the ground. To clarify, that's not at the intercourse closure. That one is still very much up in the air. And I think for just a bigger picture, this agenda item was, I think, a Commissioner Bullock request.

And part of it was to provide you all with some information as to how to respond as you're getting a lot of public comment, people reaching out to you about what's going on with XYZ Road. One of the things that we realized through one of those outreaches is that for some reason, the color coding got turned off on this map. And so it's always been public and available for people to look at the coming year's paving plans. But all of the lines we're showing is black for some reason. So Michael and Anne worked with Shelby to get this updated so that it's showing according to the legend now. So at least gives about a five-year outlook in terms of what we're planning. You know, Michael kind of references, but sort of a lot of headwinds going against us this year in terms of getting a lot of this accomplished, so the fire obviously solved everything that had this reciprocal effect of. Being able to make asphalt the folks that united companies who have the agreement with are working on the highway 24 projects, both North and South of town, so they have basically they have enough. asphalt to do those projects, but no motor to sell to us at the reduced rate, which is kind of what our agreement stood at.

They did supply the contractor an amount to us, so I can't complain about that.

They told us that they'd give us 1,000 tons at no cost, just for using the pig material.

And I could purchase more at $79 a ton instead of $95 a ton. But because they weren't able to crush all the material they needed, they're strapped with what they can do for CDOT.

I guess helpful like having now looked at this you know summer 2026 what we planned this is all planned based on and it's timely because we're having the budget discussions for next year how much we want to put towards paving towards you know across all departments but in particular as you look at this if it raises any questions or concerns about should we be doing more why isn't this getting done versus that That's certainly at a time if you have any guidance for us about how you would want to budget for that for this coming year. We can plug that into the budget numbers that you ultimately have presented in a couple months, a month and a half or so.

I think it's important to note that because Michael and you know Road Bridge Fund any money he did not spend this year does not leave his fund. It is still in the fund. We would just be, so when you do your budget, you've got your beginning fund balance, your revenue, your expenditure, your ending fund balance, and that ending fund balance just can't be in the negative. So I feel like I should explain this because I think there was some misunderstanding of the public. Anytime we don't touch the money in a fund, It just stays in the fund and is available for use the next year. I think there are a lot of comments about deficit spending and especially in the road and bridge fund. If something changes, we didn't get to a certain amount of paving this year. That money is available. We just plan it. We plan to use it. We show that we plan to use part of that fund balance. It's not really deficit spending, especially if you have built up the reserve. um which we have we've built up the reserve across many of our funds um so in terms of like the road and bridge if we plan to do more next year you know based on what michael knows he can accomplish we're okay to touch that money we did not spend this year because it's sitting in his fund available for use so i think that is also helpful you know to know it's not like you know if you're in the general fund like ann on museum district you're She's in the general fund. She doesn't keep a balance. That rolls back up to our general fund reserve, but it's a little different.

Yeah. Go ahead, Andy.

Oh, I was going to say, is that like a good talking point for the converse questions we get as well when people are like, oh, well, you didn't spend any money on snow plowing this winter, so why aren't my roads getting paved? Is that kind of like the same way you'd want to talk about that as well?

Yeah, I can't take money. And that's not how doula budgets work. I can't take money that was appropriated for one purpose. You guys did a supplemental. We appropriated a certain amount of money for grooming, whatever. Whatever it is you appropriated for, I don't get to go plunk it in another fund and use it for a different purpose. You'd have to amend the budget at that juncture to do that. You can do that. Um, but if we haven't spent money on something, it just goes right back into our fund balance. So at the end of 25, um, we had a couple million, I can't remember exactly the exact amount that we had a fund balance at the end of the last year that we didn't spend. And we do that every year. We bring in revenues, we plan to spend them, something changes, or, you know, we didn't fill every position we thought we would fill that happens every year. And then that rolls back up into our savings account. And it's available for use in the next year should something big come up that we want to invest in, like land. So I think that is important for people to understand.

So Michael, I remember last year we were talking about your bath plant, and you had some machinery that you thought you could keep working on. That's not happening anymore? That's not possible?

No, because I put like 30 grand in the budget to start working on that and start building it up. This asphalt contractor said he just rebuilt one like ours, and it cost him $3 million. Got it. I mean, $3 million for something else is not an asshole amount. Not saying that it's not a good idea to get it that way, but I think it would need a landfill more than we need a pipeline. And so in the future, where will we get our asphalt? You know, unless we have somebody using a pit close in the county, like ours, or even ACA's, or we can buy it from them, it's good going down to the county to purchase it. I don't like that, but it's like a two-hour trip to go to BD to get asphalt.

You can operate yours. Too well right now? Yeah. I'm keeping a crew that I can help pave with.

I've got two that are better out sick right now. One just got out of the hospital the other day. Unfortunately, the same problem I had.

So it's been really tough this year to keep moving forward with stuff. I was planning on being paving by June 1st. Yeah. They put it off to the 20th. They put it off to the 1st of July. And we just started paving like two weeks ago.

And we couldn't get to the pit because it was in an evacuation zone. So they couldn't get there either.

Does ACA ever make asphalt regularly or do they need a contract from the state or somebody else?

No, ACA makes asphalt regularly, but they don't make it everywhere up here.

They need a contract from the state to make it up here.

They make it all the time in D.V.

A lot of times in the wintertime down in the June where we can't.

They just like to know in advance how much we make.

Wow, that's two trucks every two hours trying to pave a wild road.

And if I only have two drivers, that's a long day.

Mm-hm, mm-hm.

Goodness. This week we're not paving. I plan to pick it up next week, but then the following week, the guys are out of town at a conference. I'm staying in town, but... Wow. It's hard to believe that it's September already.

Isn't it?

Yeah, bring it up. Also on the website there, there are service requests. There's a place you can go to for service requests. Anybody can put a service request in any time. If there's a pothole that needs to be built that we don't see because we didn't drive that road for a while, put a service request in.

It's trackable, so I can make sure that the guys get it done. I know we do that a lot.

People put in requests. Where's the service request? On the website?

Yeah, it's on InfoLookworks. Okay.

And actually, there's a bunch of tabs all over for that service request. Got it.

Okay. Well, cool. That's good information.

That's great.

And, you know, maybe we weren't plowing this winter, but we were doing a lot of potholes.

And we did do a lot of other work like signage all over the town.

That wasn't... Oh, I'm sorry. That wasn't me saying that. That was just questions I get from the community. I know you guys were working your butts off all winter.

We had several people call us on that.

Do you guys reuse that rock stuff from Wyoming that comes in a bag? Is it called rock salt?

Rock asphalt.

We have been using some of that, especially in the under time.

It's kind of expensive. I can get stuff cheaper in Denver. But I like that because it's got a three-year warranty, and I'm willing to use that three-year warranty up here.

But it seems like the asphalt keeps breaking out around that and not that material.

Would that work? grow in the cracks on the mill block?

That would be good.

Rock asphalt? How do you apply it? Do you just shovel it in and tamp it?

And then tamp it down. You don't have to do anything else with that because it's asphalt. It's rock that's impregnated with asphalt naturally. And they mine it with that in there. And so it sets up really nice.

They did the big one by Grand West.

By the stop sign in Grand West and the highway? That big one? Yeah, he's proud of that stuff.

He is.

Do you guys remember about how much that was a bag and what kind of minimums were needed to order a batch of that?

It cost me, I'm trying, it cost me $1,700.

But I don't pay shipping on that or anything.

Where if I go to Denver to get 15 tons, it's about $2,000. And we go through 15 tons pretty quick, and it comes back down to replace it.

We have to pick it up.

We have to pick it up. So we've got an operator in the truck.

So it's one ton for $1,700 or 15 tons for? For $2,000, $25,000, something like that. Wow, what are we going to do?

We go to Denver quite a bit. And it comes in bags.

Yeah, that does.

I'm not quite sure how the mechanics of it work, because you can shovel it out of the bag onto the ground and then pack it, and it's back in there. That's cool. And we were told not to use any mechanical means of doing it, like a plate compactor or anything.

Would that work on somebody's dirt driveway?

Could you spread it out? I don't know. You probably could. It might be a little bit expensive to get here, but I mean, that's what they use in

Wow. Cool. Well, great. Thank you for the updates. Anybody else have questions for Road and Bridge?

No questions for me. It's one of my favorite subjects, so just going to say that.

I will say that County Road 10 coming off the Twin Lakes is rugged. It is.