Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yeah, that's better. Good evening. This is the Monday, November 10th, design review commission meeting. Call to order. Roll call will begin. Glen Cass, present. Richard Stanton, present. John Gray, present. Thank you. Can I have adoption of a motion for adoption of the agenda or do we have any changes? No changes. I'll move to adopt. I'll second. All in favor? I I thank you.

Uh public comments. This is uh for items uh not on this or upcoming agendas that are under the purview of this commission. Anyone on Zoom? Anyone present? Okay. Thank you. Consent calendar. We have u adoption of the draft minutes from October 27th. Do I have a motion or are there changes? So there's two out of four of us are here. Is that that's fine. That works. Okay. Um my only comment. So page seven I'm referred to as vice mayor. I didn't get it finished. Oh. Thank you.

Yeah. Other than that, so I'll approve we I mean I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes of October 27th with that minor change. Okay. and I'll change and I'll second it. All in favor? I.

Thank you. Um, new public hearings. So, we have item HDP 16-25. This is for a hillside development permit design review. Uh, exception for development in a class 2 RGELine setback. exception to exceed the 15 degree declination requirements. Uh grading permit and a variance to construct uh 2875 ft of additions to an existing one-story single family home. This will include a new 874T garage, 169 foot first floor edition, and a 958 ft second floor edition with the height not exceeding 22 feet 3 in and reducing the required setback to 4T 10 in. Now, part of this was already approved by planning.

Yes. So it was basically looking at archive by tonight and landscaping. Um Nicole is our presenter for staff.

Thank you so much. Yeah. So chair cast me for this um hillside development permit. Um as mentioned in the product description, there's a hillside development permit, a variance, a grading permit, a design review, and a design review permit. Um, but tonight the design review commission will be focusing on the design review aspect of it and the grading permit. And I'll I'll explain a little more in my slides. So, just for some site context, um, this property is located in the northern portion of the Happy Valley neighborhood, north of Happy Valley Road. Um it's approximately 1.57 acres and it is um it is sloped um significantly down to the the east of the property um and across Panorama Drive to the west. It is within a class two ridge line and within the ridge line setback. So it is kind of um at the top of a of a ridge [clears throat] for some context of what it looks like as it currently exists. This is the view of the existing home from Panorama Drive. Um we can kind of see and if you drove by there are story poles erected to show the proposed kind of height and mass and scale of what is proposed which is the demolition of majority of the home but um retaining some of it and rebuilding it with some modest additions and expansion um of a second story. So, previously um the planning commission in October reviewed and approved the hillside development permit and variance permit. As part of the hillside development permit, they were able to make the findings and approve um development within the hillside, an exception to development within the class 2 setback, the exception for development within the 15°ree declination, and they also approved the variance request to reduce the front

setback for a covered porch addition. Um, just a little bit of background on the variance that was approved. So the existing home as it is um is non-conforming into the front setback. Um I think back in the 90 or '7s there were previously approved variances um um which allowed for encroachment and then um the setbacks are measured from an East Bay Municipality District access easement. So you know it kind of further constrained the the site um for development. But again, planning commission did make those findings and um approve that. So tonight, staff is asking the DRC to consider the design review permit. So design related considerations like landscaping um the architectural design, colors, materials, um as well as the associated uh grading permit for the movement of more than 200 cubic yards of earth. So, in [clears throat] looking at the proposed site plan, um, we can kind of see the the footprint of the building. So, it would be expanding this existing one-story home to a 4,469 twostory home. Um, it's a little difficult to see, but the additions are in a darker shaded gray on the site plan. And the biggest change that would result is um the a taller structure than what is existing. and the seconds story additions along with new landscaping around the residence and grading to accommodate um the expansion and the driveway. Um it proposes a total of 450 cubic yards of earth movement. 400 of that would be cut 50 of fill and that is for the regraded driveway access from Panorama Drive with retaining walls and to also kind of accommodate some of the landscaped areas around the residence. But majority of the proposed work is concentrated to the kind of existing

flat um developed area of the parcel. The whole entire area kind of downs slope to the um to the east is remaining untouched. So there are two stories proposed. A garage kind of built into grade and then a first story and um second story. But I really wanted to kind of highlight this second story floor plan because shown in green is kind of the livable area of the second story which is an art loft above the garage. The other kind of second story elements are um areas that are like open to the first story. So they're not habitable second floor areas. Um so the structure it perceives kind of as a twostory home but um the only kind of livable area is again above that garage. Um the second stories are smaller and kind of centered um over the lower levels which staff kind of creates a a balanced appearance across the building. I wanted to highlight the south and north elevations called out on the screen. Um, you know, the building's kind of proposed shape and layout are designed to break up its size and try to reduce the visual bulk. You know, there's a mix of slope roof and flat roofs roofs um decks and a natural green roof that kind of um help the structure blend into the hillside um with surrounding trees. There is a small covered patio that uses kind of see-through panels, which is a um a design element to make the structure appear less bulky from panorama. Um, overall the home's placement and scale are compatible with the neighborhood pattern along Panorama and are appropriate for a hillside setting. On this elevation, this is the one that's facing 1290 Panorama, which is the closest existing neighbor to 1280.

Um, and this kind of shows those two windows to the right are the art loft area. Um so the limitation of kind of windows on the second story here and the distance of this you know kind of facade from that 1290 and the screening um kind of minimize or minimize the privacy impacts on 1290 across the um all elevations. The windows are large but they are carefully placed to give good views while still keeping privacy um impacts minimized to those neighbors. Um there is good articulation with you know window frames and lines that kind of make the house feel lighter. Looking at the renderings that are proposed the style of the house is modern but um it's utilizes natural materials. Um you know the walls are a light colored stucco. There's wood siding concrete which kind of give it some texture. um darker natural colors are encouraged in hillside areas and staff um recommends a slightly darker color for the main body to ensure that the offsite visibility and glare remains low. Um and so staff is asking DRC to provide their thoughts on the proposed color. Um the applicant team is also here and they're prepared to um speak on the proposed colors and materials and can give more perspective um to the commissioners as to why they are choosing this color. As part of the landscape plan, three [clears throat] protected trees are proposed to be removed. Um so all protected species that are in ridgeeline setbacks regardless of size are categorized as protected. Um so staff has added a project specific condition of approval um for a category 2 tree permit and ensuring that the um mitigation trees as part of removing these three trees would be um handled

during construction drawing. So what the mitigation for removing those three protective trees would look like would be them planting three 15gallon native species on site. So that's a condition of approval that staff added to ensure that the removal of trees is being properly mitigated for our tree protection ordinance. So the project was referred to our outside um review agencies um and kind of looking at the proposed draating and drainage. Our city engineer did review but did not have any comments on the grading or drainage. Um, previously the before it went to planning commission, the applicant had some structures that were located in the EV mud easement slash the right of way. Um, and after consultation with EV mud, they have since removed them from the right ofway. So that's why in the referral agency comments, you would see the revised um, comments from the engineer and the revised com or sorry, and the EVMU comments that are saying nothing can be in our easement. the applicant has addressed that and removed those elements. So, it complies with EB mud requirements and you know satisfies the city engineers comments on those structures that encroached into that easement area. Public notice for the design review commission meeting um was posted 10 days prior. Um no public comments were received for this item. So staff has evaluated the findings associated with design review permit and grading permit and um recommends that the design review commission find the project exempt from SQA and adopt DRC resolution 202518 approving the project subject to conditions. Thank you.

Questions for staff? I have one question. When we get to the resolution, I thought, and I might be incorrect, but I thought under the new U pre-ordinance, all the protected trees needed to be listed individually on the document because that resolution would be the future reference about where what was protected. Yeah. And

and I didn't there's none that are listed. I [clears throat] think that you're you're correct in and I can modif I can edit the resolution to explicitly list the three trees and in the conditions of approval call out the tree identification numbers to say that the proposed removal of these three trees requires mitigation under our tree protection. So I can make those edits to specify. And then what about the higher ridge line? They're not listed the height of the well I you were saying is the the upper ridge the level two whatever it is

or all those are protected trees so is there broad category there's the three and then is there broad category of all associated all existing trees I believe that it's for the if they're mitigation trees proposed those are protected and then Um, I believe it's trees that are like for the purposes of like screening or are explicitly called out to be maintained and protected. So, I don't believe we would list all trees on that kind of steep hill. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Applicant, you have 10 minutes to do a presentation. Whatever you wish to do.

You can. Okay. So, my name is William Bill. Oh, William, if you could do Yeah, you go to the D. Thank you so much.

All right. Hi. Good evening. Uh, my name is William Leo, project applicant and, uh, principal architect at Corary Design Studios. Um, so, as you can see here, this is um a single family home that's substantially being renovated. Uh the existing home is comprised of these gabled forms and a flat in which large so programmatically it's largely staying the same because it has the existing home has characteristics that are are quite um I think conducive to modern living and it's it was already designed uh quite well back in 1971 and so we're keeping the layout largely the same making some tweaks here and there and then accentuating the the forms of the gabled roofs in which we replace the gabled forms with these shed roof like uh volumes. So the kitchen has a volume that you know gestures towards the pool, the living room towards the view and then the the respective bedrooms have their all volumes that define those programs. Um so henceforth the uh the design of the house. So really it's just working from the existing design language of the house and then bringing it into a more contemporary language and then of course adding on uh square footage for the art studio which were the client's requirements. Um, so in speaking about uh the the color of the the facade, we would like to go with a light color stucco. Um, and I understand that staff is recommending a darker color stucco because of um it being above the declination line and it and the hillside where it could be prominent from certain

vantage points. Um but our reasoning for using a lighter color stucco is because we want to create um this kind of subtle backdrop for the landscaping. I think the architecture speaks to the landscaping as much as the landscaping speaks to its architecture. And in terms of the stucco, it's not a painted kind of stucco. It's a pigmented stucco. So, it's going to be tinted a light gray and then and then it's going to be burnished to kind of a a a very smooth texture in actually most of the areas. And it's going to have this kind of like kind of a what they call modeling in which there's different tonalities. there's going to be a little lightness, a little bit of darkness, but it gives a very natural patina to uh the facade. And so, and there are examples in the PDF that Nicole is showing here on the screen on what we are trying to achieve aesthetically. Again, we're not trying to go for like a farmhouse kind of look or kind of villa, a painted villa. We're looking for a very natural and subtle uh uh feel for this facade.

Okay. Questions for the applicant? No. Okay. I have a question. Sure. Um looking at your set of drawings, I I'm not sure I saw reference to any of the surrounding properties and homes. Um, did you between the time that we got our packet and this evening, you didn't expand your site sections to show neighboring homes or or your plans to show neighboring homes?

No. Uh, actually the closest neighboring home is uh there's one adjacent property to the north and there's that one and then the other one is south like across the street but actually set back pretty far from the house from the house. I mean, it it's hard to tell when you're there. And of course, we we did visit the site. I think all of us probably. Um I saw 1290 right next door. Yeah. But I couldn't tell how close the property was to the one that was kind of down the hill in the this sort of swale of the valley. Yeah. I mean, there's a good bit of distance u between the subject property of the the one that's lower.

Okay. Well, anyway, you've answered my question. Thank you. Okay. um where are we comments from the public on this project? No one's on that. None. Okay. I don't assume you need to rebuttal that. So, we'll go on to commissioner comments. Who wants to start this evening? Sure.

Okay. You know, when I consider my charge as a design review commissioner to look at at projects like this, it's interesting to look at the design uh on its merits, but what I'm really more concerned about is how the design uh impacts or does not impact neighbors close and far. And this is a visually prominent site or potentially so. And I found it difficult to understand from your presentation to what degree it did or did not impact privacy or abuse or anything like that. I don't know if 1290 has a view issue with this property or not. I can't tell. Uh I I ordinarily uh we like to see site sections that show adjacent properties and have some amount of sight line analysis and screening analysis to help understand if there is any impact because what we're here for is to look out for the community interest and the neighbors interests. Um so your I think your design looks looks very nice. I have trouble understanding whether it does or does not impact uh anybody um because I I just can't tell. Um I I would say I support the staff's recommendation regarding the stuckle color just because even screened by porous trees um bright sunshine on light colored stuckle will be very visible distance and and I think the idea of a natural looking uh pigmented stuckle I certainly like that idea. I would like to see it a little darker than your renderings. Um I don't think I have anything else. Thank you. Thank you. Richard.

Yes. I don't have a lot of comments. I think the architecture is nice. I think it's a, you know, it's a dated property that needs updating from what I can tell and it certainly does that and brings it into this, you know, century. Um, as far as the site visibility, which I, you know, I pondered on a little bit too, I mean, the, uh, the elevation changes out there seemed really quite significant. in the house to the south. I I'm sure this site just completely looks over it. So, I don't think that there's um privacy concerns that I could tell. Um so, I I I didn't feel strongly about uh about that. the site is sort of in its own little um commentary there where it's and with trees around it, it it it's seems well screened. Um and then as far as the coloring goes, I'll just be honest and say it's it's it's hard when looking at the material that we have, I'm just saying, you know, it's which is it's in your drawings and it's small as far as color samples and so I don't really have a good feel. the photographs that were shown even buried with the whether it was just shade or or white. But can you give us a better feel for what the color is? I mean, is it the shade behind you or is it the wall behind?

Well, yeah, I mean, it was really hard to depict the in the rendering the kind of color we were going for. That's why I created the the PDF of the reference images. Yeah. You know, this is the range of colors that it's going to be within. Uh, I know they're they they vary slightly from image to image or from example to example. Uh, but you know, we're we're looking for something that has like a a more variegated tone to it. I think that's one element that we're really trying to go for, just something that looks natural. I mean, the modeled book is nice, but looking here,

the one in the top left is a darker color. The one immediately to the right of it is a bright white. Yeah. You know, you know, so when you first I think it really depends on what screen he's that's where um and it's going to it's going to appear brighter uh to John's point that you know when there's a lot of sun and so and appear darker on different Yeah.

time of day. So, it's hard to dial in exactly what that color is, but I think we would like to stay, you know, say within this range per these examples. Great. I mean, overall, I mean, I think it's a nice project.

Um, yeah, overall, I think it's a nice project. I visited the site. I I don't have as much concern about the neighbors view. I mean, there's a a lot of current ve vegetation there on on the site shielding a lot of it. Um, the color I would have to say is the one on the left is fine. The one in the center is not. If the variation is that much, I think it it needs to be tweaked. Um, and I think maybe, you know, I don't know what to do, whether a mockup or um or just a staff decision. But that if it's going to turn out almost whitish, that's to me is too light.

Yeah. For for that prominent location. Correct. We don't want it to appear white. Yeah. We we want to avoid like a totally white project. Um, I mean I I have no problem with it being variegated. It just is, you know, I mean that's awfully light the that middle example and the one next to it as well which turns into more yellowish than I mean it's really you know you're you're leaving us a wide

I mean I I would feel comfortable that putting that in staff's hands just and giving them the directions of you know I mean here we've got a pallet here of of what we think just conveying that to them so that when they maybe they can see some actual you know samples or I have a maybe a recommendation is maybe we could [clears throat] have them submit you know propo the the colors and then have like a member of DRC also you know not as part of the public hearing but just have one member review them to confirm that it satisfies yeah we do samples I think samples I mean, I would suggest the real material, not a not a brush out or anything like that, but the real material

that makes sense to to be seen in outdoor light. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, do we have a resolution? Um, I don't mind making that. There it is. Um, so I'll go ahead and and make a motion that we approve this item. Uh, find it exempt from SQA, adopt the DRC resolution 2025-18. Um, with the condition as we discussed about the the building color to be um, reviewed with staff and one member of the commission

and the resolution being modified for protected trees. Okay, I will second that. Okay. All in favor? I I Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. Um, art volunteer. I will volunteer for October 14th, Friday. Next item. On other business, we have Firewise sign located in the public right away at 11:15 Camino Valisito. And um is staff presenting something or just the applicant or the neighbors will present. Okay. I'll have him introduce himself, but this is the director of engineering and public works.

Okay. Good evening, Cher Cass and commissioners. Mike Moran, city of Lafayette. [clears throat] Um I understand you had public comment on firewise sign and Camino Valisceto and chose to agendaize this. of a comment basically stated we don't like this sign adjacent to our property. It didn't go through a public process. We believe it should have and we should have had say or notification and or notification that this was being installed there. So staff put together a brief staff report with some photos of the loc the sign in question. And first we believe that this is a government signed to be part of a firewise program. You go through an application process that is reviewed by Costa Fire District and then if you're accepted and it's and it's a group application. There's typically a leader, but a certain portion of your community, like the majority, has to sign on to be part of this application and list themselves as part of the fire. So, it's reviewed by Confire. The signs are issued, they're uniform through National Fire Protection Association. Once they're received, the sign that is or two signs in some cases by an applicant, the city was asked when this whole process started to install them in the public right away at locations that represent the neighborhood or community that is part of this program. So, we've been doing that. We probably have between 10 and 20 signs up, maybe closer to 20 to be honest. This is the sign on Commamino Valisceto. Um, we believe it's a government sign and that wouldn't put it as part of design review commission's purview, but in addition, it's also with installed within the public rightway, which I also

believe wouldn't typically fall under DRC's perview. So, you can see the location of the sign. I don't know if anybody visited it. We actually do try our best to place a sign as if it's in front of my house or our public works staff's house. We we try and put it between properties. You can see here it's between a utility pole and a guywire. Um not in front of somebody's living room, but also the sign has to function as the sign is intended, which is information for the public. So, it's not at the corner where you would just pass by it and not see it like a street name sign that might be sideways or a stop sign that you know is there when you're coming out of a neighborhood. It's a little ways up the street. It's placed on the side of the street that makes the most sense case by case. So, that's what we have here. I understand it's not a welcome sign by some in the community, but our our rebuttal is it's actually in a pretty good place. It did go through a process. It was installed by public works in the public rideway. So, happy to take questions.

Yeah. Yeah, I have a question. So, um can you clarify for for us the um the decision process on placing it exactly where it is rather than say in front of the other neighbors uh property as was suggested in the letter?

Yeah, the decision at this location is exactly case specific. There's a shoulder that's open. It's not behind a bush across the street. It might have been. It's far enough up the street that you'd see it if you turn a car onto Camino Valisceto. It's in the public rideway. It's just far enough off the shoulder that hopefully a truck mirror isn't hitting it, but close enough to the street that you see it. And in this case, it's a sideyard. There is a a home across that field. I think there's a second uh photo that may show that a little better. All right, guys. Maybe the next page down or the page in front of that. One more maybe. Thank you. So looking under that tree, there is a home on the back side of this property, which my understanding is it's that's not the home that owns the property behind the split rail fence, but that would be maybe your one location [clears throat] you could potentially see that sign or the post, which is wider than the sign we'd be looking at because it's facing the street and not that property. So it it seems to me that the sign is kind of at the entrance to that road neighborhood.

Correct. Um rather than being sort of in the middle of the neighborhood as the other property is. So is that a factor?

That is that's intentional. Um on all the Fire signs that have been placed, it's supposed to kind of represent the in or the out. And some neighborhoods are bigger. They've got more applicants as part of their community. And there were two signs and and often they were an in and an out. they weren't in the middle of where that sign is representing. The intent is to remind yourselves every time you come into your home neighborhood that hey, I'm part of this community. Um, this particular program is encouraged by our city council right now. Uh, emergency preparedness and emergency evacuation are one of the top priorities of our current city council. it, you know, it went through police was the group that liaisoned with con fire that asked public works, please install these signs as these communities were being accepted into the firewise program.

Have you ever installed this on an applic of the program before? I I don't know because I have kind of an area map. Uhhuh. So, I don't have which home signed up for this program. Um, my understanding is you need a majority of the neighborhood to be accepted into the program. So, whatever area that is. Well, I mean, you need 10 applicants, I understand, to participate or two 10 properties to participate,

right? But if there's 10 properties, do you go through people that are not asking to be part of the program and start clearing out their shrubbery and stuff like that? I I do not. Okay. So then this is really an applicant that is saying is I'm not part of the program. Why am I getting the sign?

Because your neighborhood is. It's very similar to speed humps on your street. Not everybody on the street requested the speed humps, but over 50% did. This is for the community, not for one person or another for that matter. Not for one side or the other. It's it's based on an area. Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Um the Mr. May is going to go first, please. David May. First of all, we contest the fact that it's a government sign. It's a private sign. This Firewise organization is not a governmental organization. It's a private organization. Secondly, um the question is who requested that the sign be put up? Certainly not the offer. And obviously the person who requested the sign should be put up probably should be the person's property where the sign is put up. Again the process whatever the process was we still haven't we've heard a general description of the process but not a detailed description of the process. But I I I think it can be said without too much of a stretch that the Austrians were not included in that process and it's their property that is a burden with this with this uh sign. Now the sign uh is is being treated as if it were a traffic sign or speed bumps I think was the example that was just used. But there's no benefit that this sign provides.

There's no requirement that these signs be put up, right? There's no uh there's no benefit that the certainly that the Osman get from the sign. Um the the question is is there any benefit that's obtained by the sign? The sign is just basically an advertisement for the Firewise program.

Correct. And we're we're not we're not testing uh the Firewise program. It's just that the Austrians shouldn't be the they did not sign up for it and they shouldn't be a burden with it. If if you want to put the sign somewhere, put it either in front of the of the person who requested requested the sign or one of the people that signed up for the for the program, not for somebody who's intentionally opted out of the program. Now, uh, if we could if you could Nicole, if I could ask you to, uh, uh, scroll up to the list of the of the participating neighborhoods. Okay. This is a list of all of the the the zones, the the the Firewise zones according to what's listed on the Firewise website. That's really that's where this list was obtained from. And this is a list of all of the Firewise communities that are participating. And it's not really clear which of these neighborhoods or whatever you want to call them, these zones that this particular sign is intended to service. Now, uh presumably the the um uh initials HVA in front of uh let's see 1 2 3 4 5 6 it's about a dozen of these zones give or take. Um I believe that my guess is that

stands for Happy Valley Improvement Association. So the the Happy Valley Improvement Association, which I guess is a single unit on its own, has approximately a dozen firewise zones. So if this sign is designed to to to be associated with one of those zones, I I kind of like to know which which of those zones is it is it attached to. Now there's also a there also is there for instance there's the HVIA the parades okay that the photograph of where this particular sign is is at the is is approximating the intersection of um is it north perale

north paradale yeah north paradale and bioto yeah and uh visito so which which is it there's There's the val there's HVIA Valisto neighborhood. Maybe maybe it's it's designed for that one. But we've got we've got all these different areas. And what do they each have signs? I don't think there's one on the fairs. Do you know of one on the pedals? No, I I don't.

No, I haven't seen one. I've seen one on Happy Valley down by um BART station. Just for the record, this is Carolyn Austerman who's the property owner. Okay. So, we're at our 10-minute limit. Three three minute limit. Our three minute limit. Yeah. Did [clears throat] you want to? No, I'm fine. Um yeah. No. Um questions. Missman or Mr. May? No questions. Okay. Do we have comments from the public? No. Okay. So, which commissioner wants to start discussion?

Richard, you want to start? Sure. I mean, I mean, it's a it's a sign that was installed by the city of Lafayette and the public right away. It's not in our purview. That would be the first thing I would say. Um, the second thing, firewise programs priority for the city of Lafayette. They're going up. Communities all over the city are part of the firewise program. Signs are going up around the city. I'm I'm I fail to see that there's an issue here that needs our input. I agree with that completely. Nothing else to add.

I don't agree. Um I don't agree because the sign actually says site. So it actually would lead me to believe that the property that it's on is part of the site in the program. Secondly is that if you look at the fire district's ordinance, it actually talks about hazardous vegetation. Bark within 10 ft of the road is considered hazardous vegetation. So, it's actually an example of a sign in an area that may be construed as this is this is appropriate whereas it's in contradiction to what the actual fire department says in their ordinance. Um, I think it should have gone on one of the participants property. It is a great location. I will not I went there. I drove by. It is the best location, but I don't think it should be I I only see it as quasi governmental sign. I don't see it as, you know, um just because the city supports the program doesn't necessarily turn it into a governmental scient in my opinion. So that's my opinion. But

so there's no action is there for us to pay. This is just a receipt and huh a receive and file. I don't know what that means. Oh, [laughter] sorry. To say that yes, there's no um action. Yes, there's no action. You know, I mean, Glenn, if I can just respond to something you said, if I may. Um, you know, while I may agree with some of your points, I don't see it as the job of this commission to respond to them. And I'm not sure that I'm the best qualified to evaluate that, to evaluate whether this is a government sign or not. There's a dispute on that. I assume city council has been consulted. And if there's going to be a dispute resolution, I don't think it involves us.

Okay. Well, we don't have a resolution anyhow. He just heard the opinions. That's it. So what is their next step by being they can go to city council? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So you're welcome to go to city council. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. That pretty much ends the action items on the agenda today. Do we have any commissioner reports? I only report to let John know because he wasn't here last time is that um we have met three times as a sub commmittee for the objective standards. Uh they are being drafted up. The final comments are being drafted up and they may go to the city as early as this Wednesday and with the hope that they would actually publish them in advance well in advance to the next meeting. The next meeting is not a Monday meeting. It is on Thursday, November 29th. And there's two parts to the meeting. There's a 6 to 7 which is actually going to be in the lobby of the Don Tatsson wing of the library upstairs. And it's going to be some presentation boards and stuff like that with impromptu discussions about what the what the objective standards, what they are, what our goals were, what we were thinking, and then it will go to the full DRC for discussion at at the 7:00 meeting. So just so you can mark your calendar,

it's already there. One of the staff has kept us on it. Okay, great. That's all the report from available of planning to attend. Okay. Yeah, I would just add to that the um there are several items that in going through the process that we flagged. Oh, we should discuss that with the the whole commission. So, you'll see that in the documents or in the staff report or somewhere um where there were questions on I don't remember the good examples, but it was either height or length or you know how big the window should be. That's the biggest size of windows. What percentage of the facade should be windows versus other Yeah. stuff like that. So something to think about if I see it.

Okay. Okay. And then staff liaison report.

Yes. Just two items. First one is tomorrow is a city holiday. So city offices are closed in observance of veterans day. Item number two is um regarding the 24th DRC meeting. Thank you all who responded. was able to confirm with um Arley and our city manager that the one item that I had emailed you about um will be added to the 20th meeting. So we'll have the ODS at 7:00 and then a design review application to consider. So the for the 24th meeting, the final day to do notice of public hearings is Friday. Currently, there are no items. So, we are more than likely looking at a cancellation of the 24th, but um either myself or Michael will email you to confirm that. So, you're in you're pretty much in the clear for the 24th.

Okay. Thank you. We're adjourned. Thank you. Pass it.