Heritage Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome, everybody. It is 6PM on third day, May twenty second twenty twenty five. I'll call to order this meeting on the heritage heritage preservation commission. We have all members of the commission here either online or in person in the grand bedroom except Jim Gallagher, who is. First up, I will need an approval of the 02/27/2025 meeting minutes. Motion to approve those minutes by Natalie Hennigan. Do we have a second? Second. Second by Laura Gavan. Any comments on those minutes?

Thank you, Tim, for doing those minutes for this commission. If there are no adjustments, then motion on the floor is to approve. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Ellie, if you could just do a verbal or a thumbs up emoji. Aye. Thank you. That passes unanimously. Next, we have the election of the officers, which are the chair and the vice chair of the commission. This is the newest council cycle, so the first meeting for some of us.

So for the election of the officers, the chair, the council member presiding over the committee is usually has a first right of refusal, so I'm happy to be chair, but I also welcome other nominations. Anyone else Like, Any other nominations? I nominated Kenston. Okay. There are no other nominations, then we do not need an election of this position. Okay. There are no other nominations?

It doesn't already take a vote.

She did make a motion. So

Okay. All those in favor of myself as chair for the next two years, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. It

helps me with my minutes.

So We always wanna make the minutes easier. Thank you, Tim. Now you know you're unanimously That is unanimously approved. Your leadership is approved. Done great. Thank you. Second is the election of the vice chair. Are there any nominations for vice chair? Any nomination? A nomination for Laura Gaudin. Laura, do you accept? Sure. Nomination. Are there any other nominations for vice chair? Any other nomination?

Yep. So just so you all know, the the primary responsibility of being vice chair is to filling in on those days where Mackenzie isn't available to do it and run the meetings. Laura had to do it Every time She did she did a great job.

I did.

That's that's the primary responsible advice chair. Just I just wanted you all to know.

Makes sense. Okay. If there are no other nominations, then the nominee is Laura Gotten. I guess if you'd like to motion that approval. Motion to approve the nomination of Laura Gotten.

Eric Garland makes that motion, second by Natalie Hennigan. All those in favor of the nomination for Laura for Buddhist Chair, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, that is unanimous. So I will be chaired. Floor of God, I'm chair. Thank you all. Next, we have a discussion update on a few items. The National Register of Historic Places nomination, twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five Wisconsin Historical Society Grants Medal, ghost sign project, February commissioner training, feedback, and the National Trust Historic Preservation Fund.

Okay. So I know we haven't met in a while, and while I just still didn't have any items that needed that ended the action, I just felt we needed to be reasonable updates on projects. We also have a new welcome our newest commissioner, mister Don Reinden. Right. Reinden. I apologize. But this German is German. So Right. So I apologize for that. It's okay, mister Don Reinden.

Happened my whole life. So I wanted, you know, again, to also just have a meeting too to help bring you up to speed as well. So alright. So one project, we'll start with the nomination. So I back, several years ago, I was given, capital budget money, about $25, to assist with hiring consultant to do national register nominations for historic properties in the city of La Crosse that have been surveyed and determined potentially eligible.

And so we worked we hired, UW Milwaukee. They have a department that does nominations throughout the state. So we went through soliciting estimates from a couple of places that do those within the state and got a quote to be able to do four properties within the $25 that we had. So they'll come here. They'll do all the work. They'll take it through all the meetings. It's usually they usually go over your process to prepare a very lengthy history. And so the properties that have been chosen was the HRS. And can you can see this too. Right, Ellie?

No. I cannot see it. So I can go down to this

new option.

I just didn't click it. You got it? Thought I did, but I did not.

Hey. Okay. Yep. I I I'm viewing your screen. Yep. Okay. There it is.

Okay. Sorry about that. I had thought I had clicked share.

No problem. So

You can minimize that if you don't mind clicking this little bar.

I'm just a remote employee. I see

that. Okay. So

and you can

But, anyway, so this is the HSR Architect's building. It's sort of this mid century modern building that's half kind of built in the ground. These pictures aren't the best to see, but this is one of the buildings that we picked. So that was one of the buildings. The other one was the fire station on Gillette Street as well, and this was a former Fire Station Number 4.

And it was recently sold to a retired firefighter who was looking to turn this into his own home, but then also converted part of it into, like, a duplex to be able to house another residential unit for new firefighters that are moving to the city that are starting working for our fire department. So let's have a place to live where they kind of then get out into the yard and get their own house or whatever it is. So I think in the new fire station, it's built right next to it.

Look. Dog is there still. Oh, yeah.

I have a question about that building. Wasn't that wasn't there some controversy over the who ended up buying that? Wasn't another person wanting to buy it? He was moved out or something like that, or there was there was an offer on the table and got removed. What was the store? Was that the building? It's in the paper.

I don't remember that occurring. I think I'm very fairly certain this went through our normal process where we advertise it out and get proposals.

Okay.

And there's a committee in place that reviews the proposals to determine who purchased it and pretty certain follow that process. And then it does have to go to the council for approval for sale. So I don't remember there being a controversy over but there was nobody that was living in there that moved out because it went straight No. By the fire department to be sold to him. But I thought there was

an investor that was thought they were gonna get it, and then they didn't. That's not what happened.

So there was a you're talking about the fire station on Monterrey Street. Oh, okay. That's a different story.

My my

No. But you're you're remembering a good story that actually occurred, but it was a different fire station. Was the old one on Monterrey.

Okay.

Okay. So this one's up on Gillette Street. So that's the other one. And, again, the intent too is also to get this listed on National Register to help the owner with being eligible to apply for state and federal tax, historic tax funds to help with the rehab of the building itself. The other one is city hall.

I had permission from the previous mayor to be able to designate City Hall because this is a very good example of the brutalist style of architecture as well. So that's one of the buildings. And then the last one is the congregations. I'm not sure this is what they call it, but it's a certain historic name of the building that's on 18th And Main as well. And so I had a very lengthy effort to discuss it with their leadership on allowing the building to be designated, and they agreed, and I was very happy that that happened.

So they're in the beginning stages of their work and doing the research, and I just kinda wanted to give you an update on the final all approvals with the council, with the contract, with the consulting firm, and keep you posted. But they're in the beginning stages of doing the research and the work, and they'll have to make contact with all the building owners and take pictures of buildings inside and out and keep moving forward.

Did the architecture firm I think that's Hackner something in Schroeder. Did they I mean, they're on board with it?

Yes. I had to get permission from all the building owners to do that. Yes.

So Okay.

It was it was Kevin, Keith, Kyle. Yes. The owners of the building. The one main owner of the building. I had lengthy conversations with him, emails back and forth, and he was all on board. And he got his partner, which I think is his brother or something like that to also be him through. So, yes, the short answer is yes. I have the permission.

Okay. Cool.

And can you clarify for the commission the process of this project?

Yeah. So final approval of being listed on the state national register goes to the National Park Service. But through the Historic Preservation Act, they have they have given powers to each state to form their own state historic preservation office to be the administrative focal point for all, like, federal related historic activities before it gets to the National Park Service. And so our historic preservation office is Wisconsin Historical Society, which is based in Madison. And so any sort of nominations have to go through them.

And they have a state review board that reviews nominations, and they make their decision to be listed on the state the state register of historic places, and then they move it on to the National Trust for a national registration with their recommendation. Typically, it's approval. It is a very involved process, and the historical society has a list of consultants that they only allow to prepare nominations. I don't think that's fairly typical of other states, but it is here because they're very picky on who can prepare them and the work. And it's usually a two two step process.

You usually usually do a fair amount of work doing history and giving them this questionnaire they determine if it's potentially eligible. And if they feel it is, they'll let you move on with with developing a full blown, like, rather lengthy nomination process and research into its history. And it's very much like ours, where there's, like, one of four criteria that it needs to meet, but it'd it'd be much more significant than just on a local level. It could be. It it should be for the most part. So so that answer your question? Thank you. Any other questions on this? K. Mhmm.

So there's that. And then what's the next thing on? Grantsinib. Oh, yes. So I had what I've been trying to do so so Wisconsin Historical Site, as I said, is our state historic preservation office. And every year, they have a grant funding program, certified local government. They have this program that's for certified local governments. And so we meet specific criteria with them in regards to historic preservation. Like, we have an ordinance. We have we can manage the agendas.

We have we meet, you know, yearly. We meet, and then we, you know, have designations, and we have a preservation ordinance and things of that nature that we qualify, and I have to do a recording every year to maintain that. The benefit of being on that is we're eligible to apply for funding through the grants to historic related projects. And so I had actually, in the past, submitted funding to hire consultants to do national register nominations. They did that in the past.

They have sort of this ranking what their priorities are, and the priorities are surveys. And so what they like to see done in communities is have these intensive architectural and historic inventories done under city, Just essentially looking at every building and property that's 50 years of age or older and determining what their historic significance is. Then there's this massive database that's kept at the Wisconsin Historical Society of all those properties and pictures and sort of, like, if it has any historic significance, if it is, what are the defining features and things of that nature? And so we as as more and more buildings get more than 50 years of age, we have to constantly update it. So the first one was done in the eighties, super thick, really massive inventory, and then it was updated again in late nineties, the '96.

And then we were trying to update it. We didn't get around to updating again until 2018. And so we had it updated, and and then that took all the survey of buildings up to '19 And so we had hired a consultant to do that, And it was a really good survey. I did survey a lot of properties. The problem was is the consultant never finished the project.

The last step was to have all that information entered into that database. Wisconsin historical site, and that never got done. So we had some consultant issues, and I'll just leave it at that. And and and sort of, like, trying to figure out what course of action we could take is determine that the amount of money the city would spend in trying to take them to court to get what little money we paid them to do it was probably not the best use of taxpayer dollars, which was unfortunate. And so but, I mean, if we wanted to, we would.

We just have to get the money from the council, and it didn't seem like the battle was fighting. So in the end, or that survey is sort of in this limbo not being accepted because you don't have that stuff inputted into the database. And I attempted to try to get it from this consultant, and they wouldn't get to me. That's just another story. Jordan, the short part of this is I was applying for a grant to have the survey redone, and that's what I had applied for at the end of last year and found out in February we didn't get it. And it was the two consulting firms that I had to get quotes from had different strategies on how to achieve it. So one was like, I like to see it done over multiple years. The other one was like, it won't be that much. It could take, like, one or two years. This is how we would do it.

So the different amounts were different vastly, and that was what they dinged us on in our in our in our grant application was that there was differing amounts that it didn't make sense. And so I just need I'm gonna reapply again at the end the year because it's a project that we need to get done and sort of have a conversation with them about here, you know, explain to them what occurred and how what we could do better to make it a stronger application to get by them so that we can try to get grant money to do this and not make me ask through

our own capital budget.

So Citi can't access the data that you paid for? I have it written in the book. I have the I have the survey, but it was never entered in. And so the data that's in the book isn't necessarily everything that would get entered into the system. And so my repeated attempts it was over multiple, multiple years that I was requesting this information and getting it from them. It's another story. But It's not a simple job that an intern could do for the summer. It could be if that was getting I could do it if I had been given the information is what I'm getting at. Like, asking this person, is they just give it to me? Like,

oh, maybe you're not gonna

really read my notes or, you know, it's all jumbled and whatever else that was excuses, which mean I don't

I don't know what happened. I don't know why, but I

it could be very easy, and we were told we could do it, but I can't get it. That's the problem. Yeah.

Hey, Tim. I know we've talked about this before, but did you get some sort of verification that this person actually did the work? Like, did you physically see the notes?

I haven't seen the notes, but they had to have had some sort of notes to prepare the document that we have.

So Okay.

Like, we have and so if I think you can see the screen. So I actually have the report right here. Oh. So I have the report.

Got it.

But it's not necessarily, like, officially approved or recognized because the data wasn't inputted in. So here's the report that I have. So they did the work. I mean, to put this together, they had to have some notes.

Mhmm. So is there something. Yeah. Is I mean, I don't know. I'm I remember we didn't delve into, you know, all the various attempts, but did you have, like, the city attorney write this person a letter or the firm and just say this is proprietary information of the city of La Crosse to get them to turn it over.

I've had lengthy conversations with our city attorney.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. I I I know we talked about this. I I couldn't remember the whole gist of it. But alright.

And then and then it was, unfortunately, at this point, likely going after an individual who is, like, their own they're they're their own consulting firm.

So

it's like a consulting firm of themself that is now a retiree on a fixed income. I mean, I doubt we're getting that money back from like, they would have the money to get out of them either is what I'm kinda getting at.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I maybe I mean, just, like, give us some information, the data.

I I agree. Yeah.

I Yeah. Okay.

There's a lot more to the entire story that I don't think we need to go into here, but, it's it wasn't just us who kinda got screwed on projects from this individual. Let's just leave it at that.

Yeah.

So And they've been taken off the list for nominations as well. So

Well, there you go. That's a good point.

Yeah. So

for reference, I know you weren't here in February quite yet, but I think everybody else was at the February meeting. And just for reference with the CLG, the certified local government. So Jason Tisch, who came in and had that training, was the lead for certified local governments. And that is the type of training that gives us extra points on these applications. Yeah.

So any questions on that? I intend to apply again. I intend to apply again. So let's do that.

So it sounds like it's already time to be able to reach out again on the next

Letters of intent are typically due in August, and then the applications are due in, like, November. I'm hoping this we get points for having trainings with them. Mhmm. And I'm hoping the training we just had counts as that. Mhmm. Let's see. In the same year. So Okay. Okay. Any questions on that? Alrighty. And so then the next thing I wanna talk about is our ghost signage project. I kinda wanted to bring this up. I think most of you are aware of this, but I was thinking perhaps at least John and maybe Ellie aren't really kind of aware of this particular project. And maybe Eric as well. I don't know if you were here when our intern

had a So yeah. Yeah.

So I had a historic preservation intern last year, maybe. Mhmm. And we worked on this project together. And this is sort of her presentation she had last given, I think, to the commission. It's a really good presentation. She's excellent. And she did a lot of great work on this. And I'll just kind of briefly go over it. Can you see this, Ellie?

Yes.

Okay. So, really, what I wanna show first is sort of that's what we call ghost signs. So life holds. All those painted signs you see in the side of our historic buildings, in some way, meet the definition of a ghost sign. Typically, we're referring to ghost signs. So like these. And what happened was over the course of restoration, a lot of these building owners are restoring these buildings. They have come to the city to ask about restoring some of these signs. Like, life holes, when they went underwent their big restoration inside and out, they asked about restoring that sign. And we had to tell them no because it's a sign, and it doesn't meet our current sign code, our modern sign code.

And so we just had to tell them they weren't allowed to do that. So we were worried about these signs being lost because these are a part of our history. Is probably not as old as some of the other ones, but it's a good example of what we're talking about by ghost signs. And so in our effort to figure out, like, how we can preserve them or some way or at least give building owners the option to preserve them if they want. We started researching, like, ordinances out there that that pertain to ghost signs and things of that nature.

And it's kinda tough because not a lot of people do have ordinances that regulate that. The first thing that we wanna do with an ordinance was to make them exempt from the existing sign code. And so what we also needed to do to do that was do an inventory. So we had our intern did a call for ghost signs and pictures through social media, and she did a fantastic job of and then also going to our archives, both Murphy and and the main public library, and was trying to find, like, records of these signs and photo through photos. And I believe Laura might help through with that.

Yep. Yeah. So thank you for that. And so she put together sort of a good history. So, like, here's a whole history of signs on this side of the building here of different pictures that she had saw seen. And so, like, here's the whole what used to be on the side of the lighthouse building all the way up to where it is now. And and then she found this one on the other side of Leithold's Building, which said, like, it was only both rugs and music. So I guess they used to sell rugs there, I guess. I have no idea. And then sort of showing that side of the building, as you can see in the top right, furniture and rugs.

And so and then in the eighties, when there used to be McDonald's in there. And so, basically, she was able to do a presentation and inventory of who this was. And then she put together she put together a model ordinance too, which I have somewhere here. Here it is. Did put together sort of this moderate model ordinance or this this example draft ordinance for us to to potentially look at adopting.

And so she has a statement of intent, which is usually typically part of a a ordinance. She has definitions, what cosign means. And then we had actual, like, you know, definitions, and then we she actually had standards in here as well. And so, really, the best and then best practices when you're dealing with brick, because that was the other thing she researched on was brick. What we didn't want to do was allow people to to repaint these because painting over brick is actually horrible for the brick.

It doesn't allow the brick to breathe, particularly the type of brick that was used in most of our buildings downtown. It's porous, and it just absorbs everything, and it's it's not good for the brick. And so she was also researching best practices. And then it was essentially, like, well, how do we really want them completely repainted? Because that kind of removes what was originally done.

Or do we allow it to be enhanced and repainted in some way where you're leaving a portion of it? You know, maybe you're just doing the outlines or something like that. So it was really she was really looking into how we would do this. And so, also, too, what we weren't doing was, like, requiring that people did it. And then only buildings that were actually locally designated as historic landmarks that had those on it would only be the ones that would be allowed.

Or if somebody who wanted to just designate the sign by itself as a historic landmark, the sign is historic in some way would be allowed. That would probably we haven't gone through any of that yet. So she developed this ordinance, and I and this committee had looked at this ordinance and was willing to move forward with it in some fashion. And I can send this to you, Ellie, and you, John, if you wanna look at this more. I can send Joel's information so that you can look at it more to see what we are working on.

Yeah.

Currently, though, right now, what we are doing is updating our zoning code

Mhmm.

Which is one fifteen. And then what our city attorney wants to do is move the entire sign code section into that chapter. So at the moment, we have a moratorium on making amendments. But I can't add this in yet, but it will be added into as part of our zoning code update, which won't really be adopted until mid till late next year.

Can you say that again? The moving the sign code

Yeah. The sign code is the one chapter in our code. So chapter

I don't know.

200, let's just say. One chapter one fifteen is our zoning code. Oh, the sign code moving it. Yeah. So the legal department wants us to move signage into one fifteen so it can be better regulated through our zoning they think that's a zoning function along with standards.

And so this is part of the zoning code. So it would go into the sign code, then because we have a moratorium that we didn't want any amendments made to to our zoning code until we went through this other process, it has to wait until then. So in the meantime, I can send this to you. And if you feel like we need to discuss it more and I think in the end too, I have to really get this into ordinance form Mhmm. Through ours through our consulting firm anyway, and then we can have you guys look at that as well and be a part of that to kinda see what we were doing. Yeah. Any questions? I threw a lot at you on that one.

Yeah. In this report, is there a determination as to how the signs get, refurbished, or is that up to the person that owns the building?

No. We had some we had some design standards in here. So, basically, what we wanted to do was make them look at sort of how to repaint brick. Why don't I send this to you, Ellie? Then we could bring this back for another conversation because there's stuff in there. I may answer a lot of your questions

Okay.

About that. I think that might be best. And we're not under a Lisa. This isn't going in until next year. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'd I'd also recommend the the presentation that the intern did was before the body, and it was recorded. So we should

Oh, yeah.

What? That recording. What I

can do be great. Yeah.

Yeah. Because it was really, really incredible.

Yeah. I'll find that one, and I'll forward the recording at this meeting because these meetings are all recorded. So Yeah. Mhmm. I will find that and send you a link to that as well so you guys can look back for that.

I've read this PowerPoint here for this meeting. And what I got from it, I don't know, maybe I'm off base here,

is it really we really shouldn't

be paying for it.

No. So Not really.

I I think any ordinance that you propose should focus on preserving what you have without additional damage to the brick

and mortar. And and we that was what we were trying to develop guidelines to do that. We didn't want them completely repainted to look like they were originally. But it was it was finding ways to still enhance make I'm not I don't know what the terms are, but you're preserving maybe the faded look, most of it, but you're still putting features or some sort of elements on it to, like, make it pop still, but not taking away from what was still there in some way. And that was what the intent was. And if it's not being achieved in that way, then we'd love to get your feedback.

It's gonna be really hard to word that.

Well, I'm not arguing

with you. Yeah. That's that's gonna

be The other the other part was yeah. And then it was so, yeah, let me send you all this stuff. I'm well I'm more than willing to wanna have more conversations on this because I'm not quite sure it was fully finished anyway before she left. So, yeah, I just wanted to kinda this was also more just to update our newest commissioners on, like, this was a project that we had been working on.

Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, keeping the integrity of the patina is key. And I a lot of the sealants that you use on on brick, on porous things like stones and things like that, that does give I mean, you can do, like, a gloss or a or a matte finish. So that in itself will enhance some of the color, but still enable the the brick to breathe. I mean, it's no different than when you refinish furnitures and stuff. You're still you're sealing it, but you're still letting that wood to breathe.

Yeah. And I think that was things that she had looked at, but there was materials out there that did allow that, and she had that in here somewhere.

Yeah. I've I've had to do stuff like this with brick and stone. So, yeah, I'm there's stuff out there. Of course, this

would be

lot of material to use.

Yeah. The other part of the conversation too was how old you know, the the age of science. Like, the light bulb was from the eighties. I was wrong because it was the eighties, like you said. You know, is that is that you know, do we go back to fifty years that we were talking about, what we do for historic structures? I mean, so we had that conversation too. It was like, which ones do we preserve? Like, the Coke sign too, do we preserve that Cokes? Do we allow the Coke sign to be restored? That would really be considered a billboard at that point.

And then we have there's a big Coke one on on on the side of one of the buildings in Old Town North as well. And so that conversation kinda got into how we would determine which one would be saved or not. And and so that's part of this too. So I'm if you guys I'll I'll try to send some more information that you haven't already seen yet, especially with John, and we can have a larger conversation later if you like.

Yeah. Perfect.

Cool. Alright. So there's that. Then February oh, commissioner training. So the other I think I put that on here because I thought that was a good training that we had done.

And and I just we didn't have we haven't met since that training. And I just thought perhaps if there was discussion, if people wanted to like, what was their takeaways? I didn't know if this commission wanted to have a discussion on what the takeaways were, what their thoughts were, what they like to see, maybe things done. I know we talked about some things that we I would pursue as a result of changing this up. So, for your some background for you, John, is that largely, this training was for the preservation commissioners.

And largely, what I wanted him to focus on was how can we as a commission determine what a good nomination is that's submitted to the city for designation of its sort of network. And there's four criteria. They only have to meet one. But how do we know as a commission that they've done enough to really like, how do we review this to ensure that it's complete? It's it's it's it it really makes the case for being a significant building.

Does having multiple ones make it more significant than just one? Just really kinda understand as a commission how we review nominations because there is a lot of criticism of this body on the nomination that was submitted for the South Branch Library that was going through to be historic. And so and so we wanna get training. We're training on trying to be able to redo nominations better. I think that's staff and as a commission. So that's what it was. And that that was recorded too. So I can send that to you if you want to do that. Yeah. Handout to the videos. Oh, that is the handouts. So Yeah. Better write this down. And and

So while Tim marks that, it was also a training because the body had sort of turned over from longtime HPC members to new folks on the Heritage Preservation Commission. Many people don't realize that Heritage Preservation Commission have quasi judicial governing capacity, which means that the decisions we make on heritage preservation items are final. It can be appealed to the common council, but our role is not advisories. So most commissions are advisory. They make a recommendation to council, then the council has that formal decision making power, but it's not the case for Heritage Federation Commission.

So we wanted to provide ongoing training so that folks knew how to review and how to make votes on items before this body. So things like, why would we approve a certificate of appropriateness? It's really easy to say, I really like that building. I think it looks really nice. But if, for example, that property owner appealed it to the council, they would have a we would have a really hard time defending our reasoning for whether it was appropriate for a certificate of appropriateness.

So as an example, and that will become more clear as we have more certificates of appropriateness come forward. But we are known as a very good certified local government in our history, thanks to Tim. So we want to make sure that we provide ongoing training so our commissioners feel empowered to make decisions in the ways that we're asked to do so. So any comments on the training? We talked a lot about the code, which Eric brought with our heritage preservation chapter.

We talked about we reviewed nominations, best practices for applications for nominating properties within our guidelines, discussed a little bit about the ways that we evaluate certificates of appropriateness, which, by the way, a certificate of appropriateness for context is a application that proper that owners of properties that are designated in the city of La Crosse have to go through in order to make changes to their registered projects. So, yeah, discussion on that.

That was a

really helpful training. I think

the biggest takeaway I took away was in the you know, previously, I would have thought, oh, the more criteria you you check off, the better. But but I learned the training is, like, making a strong case from one or two is actually a lot more complete, which, you know, seems you know, on on the surface seems counterintuitive, but you actually look at the reasons behind having, you know, some of the criteria met strongly, like, one or two versus, like, kind of like a case for all four, then it actually is better just to, you know, really hammer home the reason.

Yeah. We have examples of applications like that in the city of La Crosse. So there are some applications that we have of designated properties throughout the city of La Crosse where the application, if you look back at it, is kind of bare. And so Kind of.

But some of the records I have for nominations, it was, like, two things. Yeah.

So long time ago, commissioners would approve a a nomination, you for whatever reason just because they were grateful for the nomination and they really wanted that place to be nominated. But what that does now is if we have some sort of you know, like, for example, a park. If we had someone who wanted to put something in a historically designated park, then we would have to look at the nomination to say, okay. Was this the intent of the park? This statue this was a thing.

Is this duck statue intent was that sort of idea intended for the original creation of the park? And if the nomination for that park is pretty fair, we don't have very much information to base it off of. So it makes our lives harder in more more ways than one. And then, of course, if, you know, the like I mentioned, if the if the property owner appeals it to the council, which also happens, and the application original application does not help us in our argument for whether or not the appeal should be approved or denied, and that also makes it harder for us and our our legal team to succeed in the designations that we put forth. It's important work as commissioners to be able to make qualified decisions based on our standards in our municipal code, which is you all may know is based off of the National Park Services Secretary of Interior Standards.

So it's not something Tim made up. Although Tim, if he made

it up, I would too. Right? Always question. Obviously, clarification. Yeah. Not always. Right.

Is there anything else you like or that you want more of? I mean, certainly, Laura and I and Natalie have been on these conditions for a long time, and I still feel like every training, like, legal training, I really enjoy. We'll kind of get into this in the next bit. But a few years ago, Laura and I attended a a camp, which was put on by the National Association for Preservation Commissions. By the way, you can go to that website and get lots and lots of free training.

It's campnapc.org. They have legal trainings. They have webinars. Anyone who goes to the camp gets a free annual membership as well. And so those are there are many, many great resources out there to train reservation commissioners at whatever, like, level of years of service you're at. There's always more to learn. Anything you want?

Yeah. Formal training schedule coming in.

So so February training was formal training with Jason. At that meeting, we asked for him to keep us updated on the next upcoming camp.

What does that

stand for? It's a

The thing is it's, like, I can request this kinda lean over to the next item, actually, but bring a pin in that. I can actually request because I'm a certified we are a certified local government. We can request them to come and give us training whenever we want. Best thing, though, is, like, what topics do we want him to talk about? And so he gives his little spiel on things that he typically does, but I specifically asked him.

This is what he wanted wanted to know more about, which was new for him too, so he was actually happy to do it. But if there's topics that we wanna learn more about, like, how do we do this? What should we know? That's stuff that we can, like, tell him specifically, come here and train us on how to do this or or, you know, best practices or what other communities are doing that you feel around the state that you feel are doing it well, those sorts of things. So, no, I don't have one scheduled as of right now. Yeah. But if we feel like as a commission, these are things we wanna learn or know about, tell me, and I will schedule it. Yes. I'll work on getting that scheduled. It likes coming to La Crosse too.

So because La Crosse is awesome. Right? We have great historic buildings here. So the camp is the commissioned assistance and mentoring program put on by the National Alliance of Preservation Commissions, and is led by preservation professionals around The US, many of which are from the National Trust for Historic Preservation. And so this is a group of trainers that specifically work toward educating local, state and federal, but a lot of local heritage preservation commissions because we really are the backbone of good preservation strategies throughout The US.

Tim's gonna quit get his battery charger. So there are many things. If you go to the NAPC website, you can get ideas for what things you might wanna learn about. There are anything from, like, legal issues in drug preservation to look at, like, trainings and curriculum around resilience of historic buildings. So that's sort of coming up more and more with historic flooding.

It's impacting a lot of our historic buildings, and you know, learning how we as a body can prepare for how to deal with some of our designated structures being impacted by weather or really anything. So as that stuff comes up, feel free to tell us. That kind of moves into our next item, which I wanted to talk about.

Well, does anybody have anything else you wanna add?

Yeah. Do you does anybody have anything else?

One thing I took away from the last training, I don't know if this is possible, but, like, it seemed like a challenge would be, like, striking a balance between, like, getting these high quality nominations, you know, that that, you know, have a solid ground to stand up, but not raising the bar so high that it's, like, exclusionary that average people can't do it, that you, you know, you don't have to be like don't have to have a master's degree in history or, you know, preservation or whatever.

I don't I don't know

if there's anything out there, like, ways that commissions can encourage that. You know? Like, I don't know if, like, through materials available on the website or anything like that. That's a I think that's a really tough one, but that's kind of what the first thing that came to my mind was after that last training. Like, how do we get people to nominate properties? Yeah. And then do it you know? Because, like, a lot of people will

the bar so high and what one should look like, it might be daunting to people when they decide not to designate something, or they just don't have older individuals that just would know how to put something together. Like, they can go look stuff up, and then I get, like, nominations. It's all photocopied stuff. They just hand it all to me. They hand it to me. Things like so I get what you're saying.

Yeah.

It's striking that balance. Or how high is the standard, but not so high that it just deters people from nominating their properties.

Yeah. I don't know.

You have to do

I don't know. Put instructions on the Internet or maybe, like, post a workshop. I can't I don't know. That's it's a hard it's a hard question.

The nomination form, I think, has pretty clear directions on it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's still you know, everybody can do it.

It can be tough. Yeah. We could provide example nomination applications of good applications. We could

we have plenty of fans

questioning whether

we have to. Don't know. Applications. Certainly, don't have to be from the city of Blue Cross. But I also think that, like, the the attempt that we as a body could do some sort of effort to encourage the community to nominate properties, something we can also talk about in our last agenda item for for efforts in 2025, 2026.

Because that's something I I think about a lot as well. And, certainly, we usually get nominations well, maybe historically, in the recent past, we get nominations when a property is, like, imminently in danger. And so we don't necessarily enjoy that either because then sometimes we get in a tough spot.

It would be I mean, definitely plus one, what Laura said. It would be interesting to see if our team and Laura Murphy or folks at the main library archives too could team up for creating, like, here's a standard, like, almost a more intensive or not more intensive, but more, like, instructional nomination form. I'm thinking about when the, you know, library archives do a property history. Like, they have their set sort of template. Right? Here's, like, here's what you do. Here's where you go for this information. Here's where you go for this. And so they do it for the public, you know, but you can do it as an individual, and it's quite straightforward. You sit there with them, and they're like, okay.

I need to get this, you know, the city city directories or whatever. They pull it up for you, you fill in this stuff. It's like a plug and play kind of thing. And I wonder couple things, like, if if we can create a more robust step by step guidance for folks if to make this, you know, like, you know, where do you go for each of these pieces to fill it out? But then also, as our libraries are doing those property history research, you know, projects for the public, what can they be looking for?

And if they're serving our our constituents on, you know, their history or something like that, hey, maybe this actually rises to the threshold or something that should be considered. You know? And they're just the first line of defense for a lot of interesting property histories that could then okay. You've got all this information ready at hand. Maybe this actually could be filtered into a nomination form.

But I think

that that just needs we need to, like, triangulate all of our people and and and and make sure we're all on the same page about what that might look like.

So here's here's my nomination form, and so it does it's pretty, you know, lot to it, but I do have here instructions. Mhmm. So for each section, it just talk about, you know, even just as far as saying, please put the current name of the property. It's different. Mhmm. So I do have directions. So, I mean, I'm willing to make any sort of changes, but I think maybe, like, even if we're gonna add something else to, like, a resource page or something, says, go here. Talk to Laura.

Yeah. Yeah. But I I hate to say this, but, like, sometimes, like, I look at things, and I feel like people didn't read the directions. Yeah. I like and, like, TLDR is what my sister can carry on there in favor. But it's like, yeah. So, you know, sometimes I feel like, yeah, people are more receptive in person, but that's hard.

You know?

I wonder. Yeah. Maybe once or twice a year. You just post Post a workshop. I don't know. You know? People are you have to, like, publicize it. I mean, it it'd be a bummer if we post a workshop. You're going to be. But You wanna say solution or

cold here, but I have a question. Is there a disincentive that owners of these properties would have to not be not they don't want it a landmark. Mean, wouldn't you say that there might be economic reasons that you wouldn't want this? Certainly. Isn't that part of the problem? Is that their owners of these buildings aren't really worried about the history because they wanna just extract as

much money as they can from

the property. Is that is that a barrier that we run into?

I think it's definitely a combination of well, I think you have the full spectrum of folks who say, I don't wanna have to go through any more bureaucracy to take care of this house or property. And you're right, it is an economic decision. But on the other hand, I also think there's lots of places people care deeply about that would love to have this level of recognition that, but there's so many barriers in place. They don't feel like they have the capacity or the time, or it's also an economic decision to not spend free time and free labor creating a nomination form. So I think there's both. I think I think we have plenty of places that are not designated because property owners have no interest in it, but there are also lots of properties that where there's interest but not the capacity.

The there's a general thing that I hear the most is I don't want you to tell me, but I can't or can't Right. That's what I was getting at. That's the general thing. And to a certain extent, you know, by designating it, there is this additional layer of review by myself or this body on what you on how you do things to only the exterior. We have no guidance over the interior.

Right. But the exterior, we do. And, typically, if you're one of our districts, there's design standards. And if if it's by itself, we typically do best practices for secondary material standards so we have and so sometimes it can be generally not the scope that they want to do. I would say more more than not, though there's a lot of times, though, with those individuals where I'm able to talk with them about, well, tell me what you wanna do with your property. Let's just go through it. Mhmm. And then they tell me, like, oh, I wanna do this, this, or this. And I'm like, oh, that would be fine, actually. Because they're like, why?

Because generally, what I'm learning is that they really do want to do what's appropriate for their house because they know that it's this type of house Mhmm. Or that type of house and that it should be this and that. So I'm like, you're already on the right track. And so they said a couple times I've given people suggestions like, well, how about can you do this instead or that instead? And they're like, oh, yeah. I didn't even think of that. That looks that would be great. I'd rather do that. And so nine times out of 10, most people, when they actually kind of understand the process, and they want to do something to preserve their home and protect the investment that they made into it to restore it back to

something.

But, yes, there's also a lot of building owners that just generally, like, want nothing to do with it because they just don't want that extra layer of bureaucracy, like Natalie said, or or they just, you know, don't believe me when I tell them it's not as you know, there's not as much oversight as possible. That's just the local level, though. On a state national level, it's honorary only. There's no additional regulations they wanna go through. So I'm also trying to convince people that.

A lot of them don't understand. They don't believe me on that either. And so there is a there is a challenge that we have with with educating people on sort of there's a lot of negative stuff out there too. So Do you think there'd be a ability to build a pool of people who've been through the process or have experience that would help provide support for people without application? Besides For nominations, I there might be.

I have to think about that some more. I have developed a pool of people that can help others with doing work to their house. Because especially with the big lumber barons, I have had conversations with them and have gotten their permission to be like, can I recommend people to you if they have questions about, like, how to get siding built or how to do this or how do you know the spindle work? And who's who's your guy? Who's your woodworking? Right. Right? And so they're I have so I have a pool of people that I direct people to to, like and so they they're a pretty close knit community because they're all trying to do who's their border guy?

You know? Mhmm.

But in terms of nominations, I haven't thought about it that way. So I think I think about that some more. But, again, it gets to the point of I really have to go back and look at a lot of nominations to really kinda think, based on this training, who really did a good one. I I could think of a handful of them, but yeah. I mean, I don't know. So but, yeah, I think I'll send a link to this too for people to look at, and then maybe that's another discussion we can have later if we need to make some add some things to this or change it, the resource guide. I do think a previous commissioner talked about adding

a at one point anyway.

But but, yeah, I think that's a great idea.

Anything else? Always more, so feel free to reach out. So with the conversation about camps, trainings, and certified local government programming, there is also, as you may know, lots on the federal docket of four cuts, and one of them is certified local government. Has a has a the Heritage Preservation Fund. So I wanted to bring that to your attention.

And so Tim has pulled up sort of, like, a overview of what that means and what that means for us.

Yeah. So I got this email from Wisconsin Association Historic Preservation Commissions, and they're just talking about the danger of the historic fund historic preservation fund. The funds from it aren't being released, and they're trying to stress that the money that actually goes into this isn't actually our tax dollars. It's funds that come from offshore drilling leases we use for historic preservation. And so, you know, they're just talking about how these funds have been released and this threatened sort of, like, training programs and seal CLG grant. The grants, like, grant program I was applying for, that money wouldn't be there and things of that nature. And so we just know if you're wanting to be a part of supporting or writing letters or talking to your congressional leaders

and or

your legislators, then, you know, please do so and and here's sort of more information about that. So I think McKenzie, just wanted you to be aware of this. I can forward this email to all of you as well if you wanna look at it real far and see what's going on and see if you want to be a part of it.

If you go to the National Trust for for preservation, they will have a pop up before you even go to the main site where you can contact your federal elected officials. And they have, like, a template for how you can contact those representatives to make sure to support the release of fiscal year 2025 heritage preservation funds that are being withheld and then also asking your legislator to fund the 2026.

Are these funds on a calendar or fiscal year?

Fiscal year.

So when is when does it begin?

So the decision, I believe, is going to the senate next week.

Okay. So it probably takes effect in June sometime then. That's when the fiscal year begins?

So here it says the federal budget for '25 is passed in March '25, and all the funds Okay. Part of it haven't been released.

Okay.

We're trying to advocate to have those funds released and then assuming that the twenty sixth one would essentially be in March as well.

Okay. Do do we have a certain amount? Like, do you know we're supposed La Crosse is supposed to get this much money, or is it for this for the state of Wisconsin, they're supposed to have that much?

It's the state of Wisconsin. Yeah. Because, again, it's a certain amount of money that goes to our state historic preservation office, which is Wisconsin Historical Society. And then they use that money for the trainings and the education and grant programs for all of us as a state to apply for if we are a certified local government.

Okay.

And not every community is one in the state.

Right.

And probably staffing to approve your forthcoming nominations as well.

What was that? I couldn't hear that.

The funding probably would also support the SHPO staff that would be reviewing our upcoming national registered nominations.

Okay. Can you forward that email to me, Tim, please?

Absolutely. I'll forward it to everybody. I'm gonna make one email to everybody who has all this information in it. Yeah.

Yep. I can just kind of

overview real quick the Heritage Preservation Fund.

Mhmm.

The fund was created my gosh. Jim, do you know when the fund was created? 1976. And the fund funds the State Historic Preservation Office, the SHPO that you hear us talk about a lot, which is where our certified local government is that that program is housed. It funds THPOs, which are tribal historic preservation offices, and then it funds grants. So all of the competitive historic preservation grants nationally. So this is a nash a federal fund that is being considered, I believe, during the reconciliation of the federal budgets.

Okay.

So for example, it funds locating, documenting historic places. It funds nominations to the National Register, reviews, the administration, and facilitation of the federal historic tax credit project, which is a pretty huge impact. We have many places in the city of La Crosse that go after heritage preservation or or historic tax credit projects in the city of La Crosse and and everywhere. So very important fund for us. So if you have any appetite to contact your legislators, please do.

And soon, because it is pretty much being discussed in the Senate right now. Alright. So that is all for the third item on our agenda. The last is the discussion of the 2025, 2026 preservation projects or effort. So this item is to discuss some efforts we'd like to pursue for the 2025 and twenty twenty six years.

Yeah. So, you know, rather than typically, rather than just waiting for items to come in or applications to come in for us to act on, have the ability to do other preservation related projects somehow, you know, whatever those may be. And so one thing is there's a couple things that we have continually working on. Same time. So on our own website somewhere in here, one thing that we had constantly be doing on an annual basis that we haven't we didn't really look at this year was our endangered properties project, which is

in your summer Oh, no. Four. There you go.

What's your endangered properties? And so, you know, it might be and so we had you know, mine might be something we wanna look at again. We haven't done it since '23, apparently. So that might be something that we can discuss in the future as a group about how, you know, if how we wanna continue on with this. I do think it's important and whether we think know, you what impact it may have had, whether we need to make some changes to to it, I'm not sure.

One other project that had always been discussed was this lost lacrosse project where we were both of our archives have a tremendous amount of older photos of buildings that no longer exist and trying to find some way to get those out in the community, whether it's through signage out in downtown or have it be an app or have it be I don't know what it is. But some way to get these photos out to show, yeah, you see here's where this the big piece of land is, but here's the building that used to be here, and just sort of gonna kinda show that case back to the community in some way. And we just really haven't been able to get that off the ground. And then we have the signage project, which we're moving forward with. And so those are some things that we have been working on.

And if I'm missing anything, let me know. The other part of it too is we, in the '23, adopted our city's comprehensive plan, and there is a section in here actually related to historic preservation. And so part of this I gotta find it somewhere. The part of this body's responsibility, in my opinion, is to implement that section of the comp plan that revolves around historic preservation. And I'll show you that here.

And so I can also send you this, a link to this plan, and starting on page 80 is preservation part of it. And so there's actual, like, background and past accomplishments and sort of the background, you know, the community efforts so far, and then there's our opportunities and implementation part. So starting from here on page 84 is sort of these general overall actions or guiding principles and then sort of the actions to do that to do that goal. And so there's there this is something I think I don't know if all of you have got to read this part yet, but I can also send you this, and this might be a good it could be a good, like, something to read to be like, you know, I'm I I think this is something we should be working on over the next year or two, like this particular thing. And then we can have a discussion about how we do that.

And so I you know, I sort of wanted this to sort of a placeholder for, like, a future discussion for us, like, perhaps next month when I can send all this information to all of you, and then we can again, if I don't have any pending things, I still feel sometimes it's important for us to it gets easy to not have meetings, which I've been paying for doing or or doing. But I think getting you this, then maybe we can have another conversation of what other things can we act on and work on as a committee to implement this plan. So but I'm also open to hearing any questions about projects or things that you're thinking of as being a part of this commission, and we can talk about it some more in this list. Or at the very least, I'm prepared for a discussion next month on on potential projects. Even if it's just coming to the table with one thing that you wanna discuss a little bit more in-depth would be great.

Then we can narrow it down to what we wanna achieve or think we can likely achieve over the next the rest of this year or next year. Is there any questions on that for me?

No. That all sounds really good.

I've had some. So I've been on this mission for four years or longer. Natalie coming up on three maybe. I don't know. Gosh. Time flies.

Just got to do. Three. Yeah. You just got so two. Yeah.

And so we've all been involved in the endangered properties list and are familiar with the Lost Lacrosse list. Those are more educational effort. And so I think that we should have conversations about how we want those projects to evolve. I know with the endangered properties list, we had discussed how to make that more of an empowerment effort to local property owners because we got into this sort of, like, fuzzy place where a property would end up on the most endangered property list, and we don't wanna single out the property owner for having a seemingly endangered property. So thinking about ways that we can empower owners of endangered properties and educate the public on those properties in a different way, I think we should think about I think also it's it's tough, right, because it's a volunteer body, and we want to propose projects that we're able to execute, which can be challenging when we have one staff person, and we don't want to just tell our staff person how what projects to do and then have that added on.

So it's a project that we, as commissioners, also need to be able to hold, of course, with supportive staff, but and that can be a challenge. Right? The endangered property list is a big project. I mean, it takes a lot of our time, and so we wanna make sure that we design it in a way that is attainable so it's still quality. Personally, I, as a council member, it's really easy to get stuck in, like, projects that aren't necessarily policy related.

And so personally, as a council member, I have an appetite for policy. And the more I do in terms of educational projects, the less policy I can do. And I think there's a lot of really great opportunities to work on policy. So as Natalie has mentioned, we can look more at the construction policy. We could do more, like, demolition by neglect prevention, demolition delay ordinances, which I'd really like to do, especially in demolition delay ordinances.

I think we should totally be working on those things. And so while I want to also be doing that, like, educational arm of the commission, that takes so much time that then we don't do any proactive work. We're just talking about what we should do and but not have enough time to do it. So and then lastly, I'd love to hear more from the commissioners. I did connect with the State Historical Society last month at a conference in Madison that was right across from the Historical Society, actually, for my professional position, not my council position.

And I learned that the State Historical Society has a comprehensive tree mapping database. And so I thought I might bring this to the commission because I thought it was interesting. It might overlay well with some of the other city initiatives we have. And so the state historical society, in collaboration with the state DNR, has a massive tree database that maps the historical trends of existence of tree candidates in the entire state. It's wild.

And so some of the policy changes that have been coming out of that effort is local governments around Wisconsin, but also around The US. I've learned after learning about this is that some cities are starting to put forward heritage tree ordinances, which Interesting. We all know it's a huge struggle for cities to maintain tree canopies, which we all know enhance quality of life, and people get really, really concerned about their trees. So

You've already talked down all the historic pastures.

We've we we have yes. We have. And certainly, I'm not, like, saying, like, no one can ever touch that tree, but we do have some significant struggles with maintaining the tree canopy that we have. A lot of times, like, entities will come into the city and chop down huge trees and then pop in little twigs, and they can't be maintained because they're thirsty, and they're on a boulevard that nobody waters. So that is a priority that the city and residents have identified.

And so just to sort of sprinkle in that there are model ordinances out there for heritage trees, which I believe there are over, like, 50 municipalities across the Midwest and The US that do this already. I thought that was pretty interesting. There's also a crowdsourcing app that the State Historical Society has been assisting municipalities with where people can nominate a degree on the app and take photos of it as a way to build, like, community recognition of trees that people really enjoy. So, like, one that we all hear about is that massive cottonwood tree in the middle of the marsh. It's, like, literally the size of this opening.

And so I thought that was a really fantastic way to to have the community survey the things that the community cares about. And I think that that could probably be modeled. You know? Like, we could have an open source

We had an intern start years ago to inventory all of our treatments.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, anyway, not something we have to do, but I just thought some folks here would be interested in Very much tree oriented.

What's the status of the bubblers in the city? Are they gonna

Oh, we do need to thank you so much for dealing. Tim, we just got some emails about that in the last couple of months. Do have any updates?

Bubblers are going away. No. Yeah. We got started once because Has not been answering one of ruling, I believe, I heard was that the requirement to have ADA accessible wire founds trumps having non ADA accessible wire founds.

Even though they are not registered?

They're not designated? Of them are designated in some way, but I think our city attorney said that federal requirements trump that. We have this ADA transition plan that we've been working on. And if you can see all the new programs and everything going in, it's this whole effort to have more accessible infrastructure in our city, and those don't meet that. And we can't convert them in some way.

So the only thing that I was able so I don't think we're gonna be able to keep them as keep them as water fountains or bubblers. It doesn't mean that we can't think of something else to do with the cast iron once. Mhmm. Part of it, too is, like, not all of them are original. Many of them are recreations. But we could maybe have some next to it for smaller purpose. Mhmm. Or they're gonna save them all for us. This isn't something that's gonna happen on, you know, like, immediately. But we can think of as a group, we can think of a different way to use those in some other way. Maybe it's not as a water fountain, but maybe it's

We have good planters planters.

Put our rocks with frost. Yeah. Exactly.

Well, that's what they did. So the old fire alarm plaques, the old fire alarm things they had back in the day where you had to go to the corner and hit a fire alarm Yeah. Those were all converted to the walking tour with the big green oval signs on it. Was very Yes, Sully?

I was just gonna say that, you could reach out to the neighborhood homeowner associations to see, explain that these are going away and say, like what John said, if your neighborhood wants to because, like, we have one over at Bluffside Park, you could put a planter in there and then people walking past, you know, people right in that general area could water it or whatever. So, I think it's more of I mean, even just putting a placard in where you'd go down and drink out of it just to explain, you know, the history of it, for the cast iron ones. I I I don't think you know?

Because one of our things we try to figure out over as a commission is, like, what are we gonna do with it? Because one thought that went through my head is if I don't know how many remember the old Heron art project that went through. Mhmm. It was why can't these become art? Somehow, they're working as some art installation, and then they're around the city as art. You know? And just just I'm not saying

I mean, Chicago did that

with

cows, and people came, but then you are kinda distorting the look of of the, you know, painting it and stuff. And then you're running into, well, okay. Lead paint, you know, what kind of paint and all that stuff. But I don't know. I think just keeping them in place and having a little historical plaque.

Absolutely. That's something we can also talk about some more.

Yeah.

Because they're not they're not going all they're not all going away, I think, immediately. But Mhmm. So

so yeah.

Because the funny part too is, like, when they're designated, you're not supposed to be able to remove them because that's considered demolition. They're all removed every winter, and they're not all put back in the same place. So, I mean, it already is it's been altered a lot. So yeah. Okay. Sorry. I digress.

Well, let's talk about that more Yes. Outside of this, but I'm sure I'll get some phone calls on that.

I'm gonna my own. I'm gonna do it.

Okay. Any other efforts? I I mean, I think we have a lot that we could continue to pursue.

I will send a ton of information. You're getting this way tomorrow.

Wait. It doesn't have to be tomorrow,

but I tomorrow. I wanna. Right? Okay. Is there stuff that we considered recent meetings that's gotta come back for second look?

Any referred items?

There was there was an item for a sign that was on the side of, like, a taco bros.

Taco bros. Yeah. What's going on

with that? To me. I think they chose to do something that is not something that had to

come here. Yeah. They have a sign.

Well, I have to go talk to them because they might be a food vendor at Irish Fest. So I'll check that out.

Yeah. If they have a sign hanging up, take a picture of it for me.

Okay.

Alright then. I'm I'm gonna bad joke. Is Taco Bros an

Irish Fest? That doesn't make sense. No.

They do. They they they, yeah, they they coordinate, like, corned beef nachos and stuff like that.

I'm just kidding. I'm sorry.

I need one more food vendor, so be quiet, John.

It's hard to be

quiet this one. I'm sorry.

Does corn do you tacos? Come on.

There's a whole there's actually a historical

book on tacos in hoppers.

Yeah. The goodness of the show.

And I meant news. Alright. Okay. Tim has a very important meeting

to get to. No. It's fine. Getting It's probably late now.

Thank you all for the discussion. I appreciate it very much. This is the last item on our agenda, but there's no objectionable to adjourn the meeting. Being no objection, we are adjourned at 07:17PM. Thank you all.

Thanks

a Thank you. Have a nice evening.

Thank you.