Common Council - Regular Meeting

All right, testing. Okay, that's good. The speakers are working. And then I've got a message in the chat. Hey, David, I see you're online. Well, that echo is going to kill me. David.

Yep, I'm here. Now I can't hear you. I could hear you before. You're muted.

David, can you hear me now?

Yep.

Great. Thank you so much.

Yep. Sounds good.

Oh, cool. I see your face. Nice to see it. Thank you.

So hairy.

Is there an echo now? That was it. So this sound was on. Oh, great. Okay, that's going to make it so much better.

It sounds great right now.

So it's just about 6.02. I'm thinking we'll get ourselves going, and then as people come in, we'll welcome them in. So we'll just let conversations kind of settle, and then we'll get going. Okay. All right, so we're going to get going. First, we want to just introduce the interpreters. Hi, everyone.

So my name is Veronica, and I'm here with Lee Sierra, and we are part of the Hudson Valley Language Justice Collective. Tonight we're offering interpretation from English to Spanish. So I don't know if any of you are bilingual or are learning Spanish or want to practice your Spanish. We are available here at the table to offer this service. So I think that's it for today. Hopefully somebody comes and we can offer our services.

All right, a few things to mention before we kind of get into introductions. Thank you all for coming tonight in the conference room to I do have some free food. I also have some takeout containers. So if you aren't able to stay and eat, feel free to put some sandwiches in a container and take it with you. My teenage daughter Zoe is in there leading some children's activities. So there's also, or all ages, honestly, if you just want to doodle a little bit while we hang out tonight, feel free to go get some supplies. That's all in conference room two. I don't know what else to say about that. I guess why don't we, we'll just start going. So I'm gonna, most of you are on this side of the room. I'll face this way. So I'm Emily Flynn. I'm the Director of Health and Wellness for the City of Kingston. I use she, her pronouns. And should I pass to you guys next? And then I don't know if we want the room to, should we have everyone say hi quickly? Or do you wanna do the presentation and then maybe we'll have people identify themselves as they ask a question? All right, great.

All right.

Good evening, everyone. My name is Gina Fletcher. I'm with CPL, and I'm a landscape designer.

Hi, everybody. Megan Zapotowski with CPL as well, and I am a planner here, a project manager for this project.

Good evening. I'm Tim Moot, principal of CPL, basically the team leader.

All right, so yeah, let's do the presentation and then people wanna identify themselves when they ask questions. People on Zoom, feel free to put questions in the chat. Tim is gonna be monitoring it for us. He can try to say those questions or at some point later when we do questions, you can unmute yourself and ask them as well. So that's an option. But first we're gonna do our presentation. If you want to advance the slide, feel free. Is that okay? Yeah. All right. So just wanted to start with a little bit about why we're here tonight. So we're here for the sidewalk improvement study. And this is building on about over a decade of work. in conversations about sidewalks. So just wanna share a little bit about that history with you all. Around 2010, the Complete Streets Advisory Council started that first iteration of Complete Streets, had a task force in 2013. Around that same time, there was a Bluestone study that happened. Around 2023 the Complete Streets Advisory Council did a white paper and that's the real foundation for this project tonight. So in that white paper Complete Streets did a little bit of research and did some recommendations for sidewalk improvement. And the City of Kingston realized that that wasn't enough to move the project forward. We really needed to do a full planning project. because it is so complicated. So what is really great news is the city saw a value in that and allocated funding for this project. And so that's part of the reason we're here tonight. And then I just wanted to share with you a little bit of some of the other projects that are leading into this work. So the Climate Action Plan, really broad goal improve sidewalks the comprehensive plan states a vision for a walkable connected city and has very specific specific objectives to transform city streets into complete streets to have a comprehensive transportation network and to preserve the historic bluestone sidewalks where appropriate we also then did a pedestrian and bicycle master plan and what I think is of note to say that to say there is that the plan recognized that we have some very narrow streets. And this means that we can't fit in all of the forms of transportation that we would like in that width. So it's one of the things that are complicated in our sidewalk planning. Also, the master plan talked about it prioritized some areas for sidewalk improvement, and it also mentioned bluestone preservation. Then in 2030, the next climate action plan basically said, do all the things in the pedestrian and bicycle master plan. And then finally, the city of Kingston redid its zoning code, and it spells out the width requirements for the city, and it also talks about which neighborhoods should have specific sidewalk infrastructure. And so that's a key code for our city that talks about sidewalks. Yeah, Gina, you're taking this one?

I thought I should move over here since the group is facing this way. So in terms of sidewalk benefits, they are plentiful and tied with the work that's being done in Kingston for Complete Streets. So with the relationship of connectivity, it pulls in together how people can easily route through and around the city. So the idea of having Standard sidewalks, it creates a level of safety with the separation between vehicles and creating reduced rates of pedestrian vehicular collisions. With that level of connectivity, it's also a level of convenience that's created in terms of having sidewalks connect from houses to different services in the city, community centers, also getting connectivity to public transportation, parks, which then leads to a benefit of wellness and health. So creating those connections leads to more people with the impetus of going outside and using the sidewalks and reducing carbon emissions, another alternative beyond cars. So with that benefit, it also generates that traffic that brings folks to different shops and also generates a level of economic progression in that sense as well. And Megan's gonna come over for the next slide.

So this is just a bit of an overview of these five aspects that we're really focusing on with this project, an inventory of the existing sidewalk network infrastructure estimates regarding costs to adjust those sidewalks, a funding analysis, public outreach, like this meeting here tonight, and then we will have a report of recommendations at the end of this project. So helping us with this project is your project advisory committee built of people that live and work and play here in the city of Kingston, as well as obviously Emily from the city and municipal solutions who is going to be doing the financial analysis for this project. So the project advisory committee is really here to help guide us as we're not, you know, local to your community in that way. We don't walk these sidewalks every day. And to really help direct us on, you know, which way this project should go and to help get the word out about this project. You know, act as those community ambassadors to spread the word about meetings and events and our online outreach as well. When we get to the point of having draft documents, your project advisory committee will also be one of the first to look at that and give feedback.

So a lot of this work around sidewalks is driven by ADA compliance with the understanding in 1990 of having the rules to make access available for all abilities to frequent spaces, public realms. So with PRO-WAG, which is the Public Right-of-Way Guidelines, that shows how you can implement these options. So be it the slope of a sidewalk standardization, having warning strips to show you the transition of the sidewalk connections, excuse me. and to also provide a way of how you can create these standardizations. So what are sidewalks in Kingston? So this is a variation of what you can see, and you know the materiality does change throughout the city. So knowing that the original bluestone is the historic elements of these beautiful sidewalks here, and over time it's been transitioned out to some concrete sidewalk asphalt conditions. So we wanted to show this in a visual of seeing what we're considering in terms of evaluation of the sidewalks and how the adjacent spaces of those sidewalks come into consideration so you'll have a potential planting area next to that sidewalk a tree as well different paving transitions and how that can come into play with the maintenance of the sidewalk and then the financial aspects of those elements tied to the sidewalk

So we are really lucky here in the City of Kingston. We have an urban forester now and he has been helping with some sidewalk reconstruction that gives more space to the trees. And you'll see the pictures on the right is the on the one on the top the before is the old sidewalk and the one below is how the sidewalk can be modified to accommodate that tree. Some other information on the slide is from him. He's very excited about structural soil that can be used under the sidewalk so that the streets trees grow down instead of across to creating those heaving on the sidewalk. let's see then he talks a little bit about the ada code that that allows the sidewalk to be more than just a straight line we can change it when there is the public right-of-way space to accommodate trees um and that right a reminder that the public right-of-way um might go further than that back edge of the sidewalk. Each road, my understanding, can be different. There is a book down in engineering that describes the space from the center line that is the public right-of-way. And then he just also wants to make sure we all know that when tree roots get cut for sidewalks, that makes those trees less secure, which is bad you know, during storms, sometimes those trees come down. So even more reason to try to accommodate both trees and sidewalk spaces. The dashboard.

So as part of our project here, one of the five aspects that we were talking about earlier is sidewalk inventory. So what you have on the screen here is what your Ulster County Transportation Council has already gathered for the city of Kingston. It was on a county basis. So what we're really looking to do is take this information and update it and also refine it to the parcel level. So currently it's on kind of a street and or block scale. So we're hoping to bring that down to specific parcels to get a better idea on that micro scale of areas that need improvement. The second aspect here was the funding analysis. So as I'm sure many, if not all of you are aware, currently repairing and maintenance of sidewalks is the responsibility of the property owner. So when it is time to repair a sidewalk, that can be significant financial burden to some people so part of this project is understanding how much money it costs to repair these sidewalks at the city level and also considerations of how maybe that burden could be taken off property owners here are a few examples improvement districts funding allocated by the city to the DPW to manage that effort cost share programs a sidewalk bond referendum Other options will likely come up as we get into the financial analysis with municipal solutions, but that was one of the main goals of this project. Public engagement, so obviously we're all here tonight because we would love to hear some opinions and get everybody's input on where you think these issues are really, you know, have the most weight in the city. Some examples of public events that I think Emily has already been to would be the Kingston's Farmers Market, Midtown Make a Difference Day, which was this past Friday, public meetings like the one tonight, the project advisory committee meetings, and we're hoping to have a sidewalk tour later this summer. Then we have an online page through the city, the Engage Kingston page and survey tool, which we'll get into a little bit in a minute here. I threw this up here. I don't know if you want to speak to this more, but this was some pictures that Emily provided from Midtown Make a Difference Day and kind of speaks to these maps here, you know, where people were placing stickers on areas that they felt sidewalks could use some improvements off the top of their head, and it really mimics the online survey tool.

Do you want to add anything? Okay.

So here's the online survey tool. So far, we have over 70 pins, which is awesome. Looking to get many more. But when you go on the Engage Kingston page, you can see this and add little pins anywhere that you think. It's engagekingston.com. So that would be great. If everybody could go on there tonight and give your feedback, that would be awesome. You know, it allows people to locate places that maybe there is no sidewalk that you feel a connection would really enhance the area, areas of uneven sidewalks, blocked sidewalks, or sidewalks that are maybe covered in debris or trash or overgrown. So we would love to, you know, kind of at that community level, get that feedback. And then just an anticipated timeline for this project. It's likely going to take us the rest of the year to get through this. We're currently doing the inventory at this point. Public meetings have been happening. So hopefully, you know, early, we're hoping the summer, we'll have that inventory, you know, well underway and continue that financial analysis as we go through and then eventually this will be up to the common council to you know review yeah um

So you mentioned the Project Advisory Committee. So we'll take a lot of this information, we'll present it to them. And then you may see on this timeline, we're going to send out a few email updates to the Common Council. And then our hope is that when the financial analysts review how we could fund the sidewalk improvement, we'll present that to the Common Council to consider. And so my hope is that the Common Council can decide the way forward for us as a community But sometimes those conversations get complicated. So no matter what, our consultants will complete this plan with a recommendation. But for the most part, we're really focusing the end product for the audience of the Common Council. Yeah, that's kind of bringing us to the end. Let's just mention the maps we've got on the table here and on the easels. These are all the same map. You can go to any one. They're not any different. The maps are the same goal as the online survey. We're looking for feedback about which sidewalks are missing, are broken, have overgrown elements to them. That's the kind of feedback we're looking for on the printed maps and on the online survey. Anything else we want to mention before we start answering some questions and have a call to, you know, the call to action is to give us feedback, basically. Yeah. Okay, I see a hand already. I'm going to go walk the microphone around so that the folks online can hear us. And Tim, you let us know if anybody online has a question. I saw Tanya's hand first. I'm going to go to her, then I'll go to you second.

So I know when the Complete Choose Advisory Council was working on their, what became the white paper, I actually meant to review it before the meeting, but I remember from back then, They anticipated that it could be as many as 30 years to just repair the existing sidewalks if we did a referendum. Are you only looking at a referendum versus the general fund or are you looking at things like, for instance, we've got a parking management plan. about to start and sometimes the business improvement districts will coordinate with the with um with it and put those funds directly into other modes of transportation also so i wanted to know if you're really looking at all the possible ways because that can't possibly be enough that we just think we're going to repair the sidewalks in 30 years and that's what we'll end up with it can't possibly it really can't And then why the sidewalk inventory? Don't we know that they all are just crap?

I'll try to answer it and you guys can chime in. The previous calculations that have been done for sidewalk improvement right, I do believe that they estimated a 30 year timeline. This is a new analysis of what can be done, and we all know that the cost of materials have gone up. We do not know what the time span for an affordable improvement plan will be yet that's part of the process of this project. Some sidewalk in the city of Kingston does meet Ada accessibility and we don't need to tear up so but that's the feedback we're looking for tell us part of I think maybe what we didn't mention is part of it is also a prioritization so. What is the network of sidewalks that are the most important that we should do first or the create. connections to everyday destinations. So that's part of what we're asking for feedback for tonight.

I was on the city council when this all started back in 2011 as a home that's surrounded by bluestone, which we maintain religiously because we know the effects of bluestone. Our house on Hasbro governor was one of the first homes built. It was a farm. And when they stopped farming, the owner went to work in the bluestone mines. Needless to say, we have a lot of bluestone on our property, because I think he made a left-hand turn on the way down to the Rondout. But anyway, I have maintained my bluestone sidewalks religiously, because I know the value of them. I also know that there was a bluestone bank. Do we still have that, that you could repair it? Contractors, when they come in, are not supposed to touch the bluestone unless they have a permit, and they cannot take the stone with them. And somebody from DPW has to enforce that. Unfortunately, our neighbors didn't do that and I was right down there and said, let me see your permit. He goes, who the fuck are you? And I said, you need to go to DPW and you can't take those stones because they were planning on taking them. I had my stones relayed about 20, 30 years ago. We bought the home in 1983 and then years later we relayed the blue stone because we know the value of it. We also planted trees because my son graduated from Syracuse in urban landscape. And he told us the type of trees to plant. And what we have in the city, Kingston, is not it. You have to have trees who go downward. The roots go downward. And one of the tree he gave us is planted in our houses is alcove. And our blue stone has not been raised or anything. And the tree is now 20 years old. There is ways to maintain bluestone. Unfortunately, I don't know why the city years ago did not take up the responsibility of helping the homeowners who had bluestone, because I don't think we'd be where we are now if the city had been proactive going back 50 years. Weather and how you treat them during the wintertime, there's different specialties, but City of Kingston is known for its glue stone. In fact, in New York City, Kingston blue stone is allowed the sidewalks in New York City. And to think we were not going to take care of that just kind of is really a sin because that is part of our heritage with the mines that were here for blue stone. But it all comes down to maintenance and help from the city. Because if everybody's using it, why should the homeowner be totally responsible when the whole public in the city is walking on it?

Thank you.

Thank you. So my understanding is that the city does have a Bluestone Bank. I don't know the current status of it, but I believe that it is still there. And I believe that you're right, that you do need to get a permit from DPW.

I can't answer that.

I don't know. Yeah. And Bluestone will absolutely be a part of this project. It will be a consideration. Absolutely. And thank you for bringing up the maintenance. I think maintenance is going to be a big part of this conversation as well. Do you have your hand up? I don't know that in this moment.

Hi. I just want to echo what she was saying about the bluestone, that it's important to preserve all over the city. This is our thing, bluestone. And it was cut by hand. People died and were maimed and injured. It was cut and chiseled by hand. the slabs that are in the curbs are irreplaceable they're like eight foot long six foot i'm six inch thick slabs like you couldn't replace them if you tried they're the price would be astronomical let alone if you could even find it and that's like not counting like the cheaper pennsylvania stuff like original hudson valley bluestone From what I've seen, it's just been the city hasn't seemed to care about it. They gutted Franklin Street, they gutted Henry Street. Henry Street should have never been destroyed. That was like a historical site. It was something that should have been preserved and celebrated and could have been an attraction, but it was taken away for cement that's inferior material that's going to degrade in like 20 years, and you're going to have to replace it when bluestone lasts for centuries. You have the ADA curbs. which should absolutely be ADA compliant, they should be done by stonemasons though. I don't understand, has the city ever hired stonemasons to retrofit them? Or have they ever had them bid? Like it's, if you have a contractor who's, just does modern construction, you take them to your house, they're going to say to gut it. But if you hire somebody who knows how to work with plaster, they're going to say, fix the plaster. It's like, that's the approach that should be done with a Kingston bluestone. I mean, if you can make the Fitch building on the river, you can surely make an ADA compliant curb. corner. And what I notice now is just block by block, you have these every intersection that has, it'll have matching bluestone, matching curbs. So matching pavement, matching curbs, old houses on every corner. It's a historical site. Even if it's not in a historic district, it's historic. And I would just encourage anybody here to go on a summer day after a rain and stand or sit on a bluestone intersection with all of that intact and tell me it's not the same as the cement ones that they've been putting in. And I watched up Main Street, down Pearl Street, Those were all four corners, all bluestone, all bluestone pavement, bluestone sidewalks, all matching. And now that whole neighborhood is ruined. And you can buy a house and be just in this bluestone, glowing wonderland. And all of a sudden, the city comes and it's gone. And they don't even warn you. They don't even give you the option of doing it yourself or hiring a stonemason. So... I want ADA compliance and walkability and traversability everywhere, but there also should be more of a care.

Thank you. Questions? Tanya, we heard from you once. I'm going to try to hit other people first, and then we'll come back to you.

Okay. My name is Janet Deplomont. I'm here because of my chair, and North Front Street is a disgrace. I have medical plans on that street, and this is a $30,000 wheelchair. It can barely manage, okay? I'm thinking a manual wheelchair or a baby carriage can't do it. Okay? And I hear what people are saying about historical preservation, but at some point there has to be a line between historical preservation and the usefulness to the community. You don't wear holy pairs of pants. Not to any respectable place, anyway. And you can... still say, you know, the Bluestone was made here in Kingston and preserve what you can. But the problem is that the city of Kingston didn't preserve it in the first place. And now it's too deep a hole. We need something that I can get around. And I've been a part of instances where UCAT will not drop you off in certain places because it is unsafe for a wheelchair. Okay? Historical preservation is great if it works for the community. But right now, those streets do not work for the community. That's our problem.

Thank you for that. Other questions? Paul?

So obviously in Kingston, it seems like the big interests in sidewalks are concrete and bluestone. And so I just wanted to kind of point out that the city has been using items like bricks in certain areas. Like when they redid Broadway, there's this sort of design of bricks and in other areas, like I was just looking on the map here, Prospect Street that runs into St. James is recently redone and they'll leave a strip presumably for plantings and things like that. But I feel like the bricks and those areas where plantings are quickly sort of just overgrown and there's no one to maintain them. And on Broadway, a number of areas, they'll just, especially this time of year, just weeds growing between the bricks. And it might be the responsibility of the business owners who are the building owners, but no one's actually maintaining that stuff. So I do feel like it's important to remember the types of sidewalk materials that will actually be durable over time. but also not require maintenance constantly. Like no one's going to go out there and weed. I mean, I would, I do it in front of my house, but I'm the only person going out and like pulling the weeds out between the cracks or whatever. And so like, I feel like it's important to remember, you know, that might, the idea might be nice that someone's going to plant some flowers in these little areas, but in reality, it never happens.

Thank you. Questions, thoughts? Yeah. Before I come back to you, because Tanya did want to say something, is there anybody else who hasn't spoken yet? I'd love to give them a chance to talk before I go back to Tanya. Yeah, great.

Hi, everyone. My name's Keith. I actually was asked to be here on behalf of the Friends of Historic Kingston, so I just want to put a little button on the Bluestone thing before we move on. Obviously, we're very interested in maintaining the Bluestone preservation of the historic sidewalks we understand that it is you know an ada thing i have side bluestone sidewalk in front of my house it is not ada compliant what would be really nice to as a solution maybe uh if we had any guidance whatsoever as homeowners does that exist does the city have like what to do if your your sidewalks are sagging you know, I could call somebody, I could have somebody maintain it, but who, I don't, yeah, I got to call a stonemason and, you know, that sort of might be outside my budget as a, you know, middle-class living in Middletown or Midtown rather. So any sort of document, unfortunately, you know, we lost Lowell Thing recently. He would have been the perfect person to write that up, but, you know, he had a long history with the history of it, but I don't know what the maintenance of it, the history of the maintenance is, or if there's anything that we can put together for the community to see in order to make headway and repairing it or making an ADA compliant, you know, just, it would be nice to have that because it can be done. You know, the old Dutch church has beautiful flat giant panels of bluestone. Someone did it, but I, you know, I don't, right but how do we do that you know i don't know where to start yeah sure but how do i level them besides calling a stone mason as you know it would be a nice first step that's all

Thank you for that. I do not know the answer to that. If we have the guidance, I feel like maybe I've seen something about that, but I cannot definitively say yes or no right now. But thank you for that thought. And that could be part of the plan is to recommend it. Great. Kyle, we see you with your hand up.

I had a question about how to get areas that have no sidewalks, but prioritized in the project. I left a comment on the page, but I was just wondering how to highlight certain areas where there are no sidewalks. um such as well my example where i am is um first and second and third avenues off of delaware avenue and those neighborhoods thank you for that question just as you were talking at one point a baby cried and i missed the first part but gina did you understand that the question basically how to oh sorry go ahead should i repeat that yes please Oh, yeah. My question is with relation to how to prioritize certain neighborhoods that don't have any sidewalks at all, such as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Avenue, the avenues off of Delaware Avenue, which are neighborhoods with children and families but are unsafe because of no sidewalks.

And that's definitely going to be placed in consideration in terms of our inventory and analysis. We'll show that prioritization too, along with using the interactive map that's currently on engagekingston.com. You can place, there's a specific dot option for no sidewalk. So if you want to take a photo or even just place those dots just to reiterate that concern.

Right. Yeah. No, I put one pin on there, but it's like the whole neighborhood area. So just wondering like how we would as residents go about getting those areas prioritized. Since those areas are really more safety concerns than some of the repair areas, which are more aesthetic concerns.

Yeah, and part of this plan will be a prioritization matrix. So we're going to spell out why the things that have been prioritized, what, I mean, I don't know if it'll be a point system or what yet, but in other plans that what we've done is a point system where it says, you know, sidewalk to an everyday destination gets a certain number of points. Sidewalks to a hospital or to a school get a certain number of points. And there'll be some kind of a calculation that will be a part of this study. If you're just, you know, right now, it sounds like you're giving us the great feedback about your community. Feel free to drop more pins. Sure. That's right now. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I can drop more pins like throughout the neighborhood or something like that.

Yeah. Thank you.

Since it's like a walking, I mean, people from this neighborhood walk to the school, the elementary school, but there's no sidewalks to get there and stuff like that.

Thank you for sharing about that. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you.

You could add that as a comment in the pin as well. If you don't want to place multiple pins across the whole neighborhood, you could kind of outline where that area is in your comment. And you mentioned that there's families, any information that you can provide in there, please feel free to, just so you don't have to put down a thousand pins.

Okay. Thank you.

Someone who hasn't talked yet.

Can someone speak to what the... the Bluestone Bank actually is and who's got a role in that? And shh, shh.

Well, if you're going to talk, we're going to do a microphone. So my understanding of the Bluestone Bank is that there is a spot in one of the DPW yards where they have collected bluestone. And I believe residents can apply, like if they are renovating their sidewalk, they can apply. There's a process for receiving that bluestone to fix their sidewalk. I don't know how much is in it. I think that it goes up and down. And I don't know the specific process, but I'm quite certain that if you call DPW, they can tell you that process.

And the rest is bluestone. They replaced one piece of bluestone with cement. It's definitely not a priority for me. I have a sidewalk I can walk on. I'd rather see the ADA stuff prioritized 100%.

Thank you for that.

Two things that I have. To bring up what he had said about the avenues with this new... park that's gonna be made, yeah. A lot of the question is, a lot of people, you can get there if you just walk there, but there's not even a sidewalk on Lake Road or anywhere within the standing area for them to be able to walk there. So that would be huge. And I know you can bus out there, but just sitting with my friends here, that's only if the bus route will take us there. Yes, I am gonna go back to, I work with a lot of people who need to use accessible areas on a regular basis and a lot of times this major majority of the statement that said to me when i offer to take somebody to do something is i don't know i don't think that we can go to that area because they have not made it accessible so just as a huge advocate for people to be able to do everything that everybody else does i don't i love well i understand she loves history i'm not big on it but the idea that they cannot just go where they want to go just because to me is crazy that we even have a conversation. I just had to say it.

Anyone else who hasn't spoken yet?

As a matter of personal opinion, I think each individual piece of bluestone is unique and beautiful, but as a matter of physics and personal experience, each individual independent piece of bluestone freezes faster than the sidewalk and becomes... dangerous quicker than everything else.

Thank you for that. Anyone else who? I just want to give the opportunity to everyone else to speak first, and then I will absolutely go back to those that want to speak again. Anyone who hasn't spoken yet? All right. And then we may have time again. So, Tanya, I saw you raise your hand a second time.

Thanks. A couple things. Clarity on the Bluestone Bank, it's in bad condition. The way that they do it needs some re- assessing because they've been stacking them. So if you need to go get a piece of bluestone, it's hard to get one because the piece you might want is at the bottom. So that really should be addressed. there's a new part of our, and one thing to know about bluestone is it's possible to fix your sidewalk DIY, which is not the case with cement. You can lift up the bluestone, put the sand underneath and do it yourself. So I think that's a real consideration. I'm concerned with our new sidewalk code that was adopted in 2017, which requires cement under the bluestone, a thicker piece of cement than the bluestone has to be installed. I'd love for that to be taken a look at again and that part taken out. And then speaking of our new sidewalk code, one thing that's an opportunity to put new sidewalks in is in 2017 we got the new code. And that was the first time since the last, I mean, the previous code allowed people to park on the sidewalks. if they owned the adjacent property. And also it allowed people to redo their sidewalk in any practical material. So you could do it in blacktop. So one great example of what happened as a result of that is the Five Corners up near the Pizza Parlor, the dispensary, Pinkerton's Bakery, that area near Boulevard and Greenkill. Those properties ended up eating the sidewalk. And if you look at Ulster County Parcel Viewer, you can see just like every single parcel has parking on the publicly owned realm. With a lot of battling, we ended up getting the Lucky Green ladies to give some of the sidewalk back, but not before they negotiated with the mayor to lease the sidewalk for parking. It was like, just this old status quo just kept prevailing so the old that's an opportunity for us to get some sidewalk back where people ate ate it under the new code by parking on it and then paving it and then now we think it's it wasn't but it was originally a sidewalk so there's an opportunity thank you

I'm not a stonemason, but I can tell you don't put bluestone into concrete. I mean, that is just like you might as well kiss your bluestone goodbye when you have to go to repair it because it will adhere to the cement. I'm not saying that you can't write on bluestone, but I can tell you on my bluestone, it can take wheelchairs. We've kept it smooth, but we might be in the minority because they can traverse us. Only thing is you get to a certain point in Hasbro, it turns into a grassy area. It's like the sidewalk completely disappeared. And it's because that being an old farm area, the houses on the hill owned the land all the way down. They didn't put sidewalks where the property line ended. So there's a certain area there too in Hasbrook. But we took it because it's more attractive. And it is easy. I know it freezes fast. But if you use the right chemicals and the storm first comes, you pre-take care of it. The snow comes. The rain comes. It takes care of itself by itself. But you can't put certain chemicals on it.

Thank you for that.

I just wanted to reiterate that it's not only in terms of preserving the bluestone, it's not only the pavement and sidewalks that are important, it's the curbs. It doesn't seem like the city has had any care for that, that they just rip out entire stretches of blocks of curbs and each one is a time machine. Each one took human labor to make and put. They're irreplaceable. Henry, Franklin, and Prospect, all gutted. And that takes me to that study, which didn't even include Midtown. So you're just, it's like, kind of allows Midtown to be this free-for-all, to just be gutted of all its bluestone. And it's just as important to preserve as in historic district. They're just arbitrary lines. Also, with homeowners taking care of their bluestone, there's no incentive because the money comes out of your pocket. And then the city can come and erase it whenever they want. I spoke to someone when they were redoing Henry Street. I spoke to somebody who paid out of his own pocket. to replace the concrete in front of his house. And he was like, I just flushed my money down the toilet because now, a couple years later, they're coming and doing the whole thing. So, like, if you have Bluestone, there's zero incentive, unless you're wealthy and just can afford it and do it out of the kindness of your heart. Most people just don't have the money. And why? When the city can just get rid of it.

Okay. I don't know, but off the top of my head, you were talking about the historicness of the bluestone. Well, why don't you use that as, you know, you could auction it off and preserve it in museums if we can't use it for sidewalk purposes? Yes, that was part of the heritage and history, but to my previous point, if what we have now isn't serving us, we don't have any choice but to fix it, okay? I can't change the fact that where I go in the community, every time I have to question Is this building wheelchair accessible? Can I even get there? Even with the FDR estate. Even with the FDR estate. Okay? It's just a fact of life. Because I'm in a chair. And I cannot change that I will not go on sidewalks that could damage my $30,000 wheelchair.

Thank you for that. Now, to your point with the Bluestone and to your point, the homeowners aren't going to put the money in to preserve it, and they haven't up to this point. They're not going to. No, they haven't. You have. But there's an awful lot of other people here. And so it is in a... awful state of disrepair and I can't travel on it. She can't travel on it. And it's beyond the point of disrepair. So we're there now. So there has to be a point where we move forward from that point. But it's an awful lot cheaper for the homeowner to replace that as a homeowner.

Thank you. Yeah. Do you mind if I have it? Because since he hadn't had a chance to talk yet.

First, I just want to thank everybody. A lot of insightfulness. I think what I'm hearing is a lot of what we need to do is refer back to actually our sidewalk regulations. I think the first step is to actually analyze, look them over, make sure that we are in compliance. And if we're not, those need to be changed, specifically if we're going to be updating what we're doing now. The areas in which are of most concern, I think we're hearing about them today. I think that we need to decide how best to address them. REC fees funding is going to be the key, the number one key to this whole story. But prioritizing, I do believe homes without new, I would consider that a new build. They should have cement, personally. I believe anything that comes into town that's the new development in a business district, there should be responsible for fixing the sidewalks. Part of their rec fee, for example. These are things that we can potentially put into these regulations as we upgrade. It'll assist in maintenance. It'll assist in the timelines of continuation. And I just think that a lot of the things that we're talking about tonight, I think we're all in agreement. We just have to figure out how best to do it. And number one is prioritizing the areas as we're doing. The next one would be, I think, and before that is reviewing our regulations. I have not seen those. I apologize. I should have had that before I came here this evening. But I would be interested to know how to find it and best way to study and then maybe bring it up at council.

Are you asking about the regulations for how to improve your current sidewalks or Bluestone?

But I think those codes, I believe, would be sidewalk regulations that would be this committee should be looking at and addressing based on our changes in comprehensive and or the new study that we're putting forth in front of everybody.

I think I understand what you're saying. So yeah, the city code does say how sidewalk needs to be created. So there is that. And I agree that this plan and the project advisory committee will help us figure out what there could be suggestions that for that to be changed. I don't know. But that could happen. Yeah.

but they're at the same time, they're going against our current regulations, so they're not gonna be upheld. So if we're doing all this work and we wanna put forth the best effort forward based on communications that we're getting here and in future meetings, I think those regulations might need to be updated for future.

Great, yeah, I think that that'll be, yeah.

Regulation updates so I don't know how much community outreach there was I know there's a lot with the zoning so I you know I know the city did a great job with that but maybe this committee could also assist in you know you know subsections thank you for that yeah I think that's a great idea I was just curious if the old county plan had a breakdown of sidewalk material

Because I'm just curious, generally speaking, for the city, what percentage might be made of bluestone versus other material? Can you guys read that? I can't read that for me.

Yeah, so that's not a lot. So if you go to the website, you can go to this publicly accessible dashboard. When you move around on the screen or zoom in, all of the charts on the right will update what you're seeing. And I believe it does say the material that's used.

Okay, so it has 44%? 45% Bluestone. Okay. That's just good to know.

And yeah, so Tim is looking at this dashboard right now. Oh, but that's the screenshot. And so some of that is outside of the city of Kingston. But we can analyze that data and have a very clear answer about how much is Bluestone. And you said that there's a question online?

Well, they said the chat wasn't really working, but it says it goes to everybody, so I'll just ask anybody online if you have questions, you can unmute yourself and ask or raise your hand. It's good, but he pointed out. Oh, there he is.

Oh, yeah. David, did you raise your hand? Would you like to unmute and say something?

No, I just wanted to fix the mute. That's fixed now.

Okay, it's fixed now. Thank you so much, David. Great. But no comment from you, David? That's fine.

I can say that I agree with my fellow wheelchair users. We have to find a compromise somewhere because we can't get anywhere. I drive a $50,000 wheelchair that's specifically made for climbing things and being able to get around. And not everybody can afford that. Most people can't afford that. So there comes a point where we have to go, we either fix the bluestone and make it work and maintain it continuously, or we have to come up with some kind of better sidewalk system.

That's it. Was that, are you done? Do you have another thought?

Yep, I'm all set.

All right, thank you. Anyone else before I go to a third round of comments? Anybody who hasn't spoken, would you like to say something? Okay, I'm going to go to Tanya.

I'm concerned about T intersections and this sort of ignoring that people cross at T intersections. We've had a few rounds now of out of the city engineering office doing ADA ramps and they routinely disregard T intersections as a place to cross. In this latest round, there's a bunch of them where even there's an example where there's currently a painted crosswalk crossing from, there's a bunch of them in examples, but this one you might recognize crossing by the library across Green near what used to be Family Court. and is now Blakeman's staging area spa place. Anyway, that street, whatever that street is, crossing to go to the library, that's a T intersection, so green goes straight and there's a street that ends there. And they're not going to put a curb cut to cross Crown, only, no, Green rather, only the length of Green. So they totally ignored that people need to cross and that T intersections are actually places that are illegal crosswalks. So if we can shut that down and start having it be recognized as a crosswalk. So if we put it in a corner, if we put in ADA ramps, Then it should be all the crosswalks at that corner, so not not just ignoring that you cross across the street.

Thank you and. curb ramps are absolutely a part of this project, the actual painted white crosswalk painting is technically not a part of this project just want to clarify the boundaries of the project. And the curb ramp that you're bringing up is absolutely to be considered. Yeah. Other comments, questions?

Two quick ones. Just the granite curbs that are being put in, I know that I popped my tires brushing against them. Somebody from where I work popped their tire, and somebody next door, at the business next door, popped their tire. So I can't imagine how many people all over the city have gotten their tires popped by those curbs, and something needs to be done about that. And the other thing going back to Midtown having its bluestone curbs denuded and a lot of its sidewalks is that I'm not saying this is the intent at all, but it's the outcome is gutterization because it creates a bluestone free zone with the like high value bluestone full zones around it.

Thank you for that. Alrighty.

I had mentioned about the ideas of gutters. And that's another issue that even breaks up cement and I noticed when you repave the roads the curbs disappear are they milling them down so you have a curb that was send the water into the Storm drains because otherwise no matter what you do in your sidewalk if that water is flooding down your sidewalk concrete or bluestone It's going to ruin it. So they really need to pay attention to gutters being high enough to filter the water down into the storm drains and

Yeah, and in fact, I think the storm drains are a big part of sidewalk infrastructure. I'm not a city engineer, but I do know that when sidewalk and curbs are designed, that water infrastructure is a large part of the decision-making process. So that, I think, will be something that will be considered as well. Other questions or comments?

All right. Okay. neglected to make curb ramps at every crosswalk. So, yeah.

All right, I think what we should do is sort of end this public questioning. We're going to invite folks to come and give your feedback on our printed maps. We also have markers, we have post-it notes if you want to write us notes. Also, again, you can do it on the website. I'll hang out for a little bit and can try to answer any one-on-one questions. But why don't we end our comments as a group for right now? I don't see anybody waving me down. That's usually a good sign. Also, just a reminder, please go get food. There's a lot of sandwiches in there. I can't take them all home. So please go get some food. And thanks for coming out tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you to the folks online. Thanks so much for joining us. And hope you have a good night.