City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. The mayor has called this special council meeting to order. Mayor Roscoe?

Present.

Council Member Bracken's not with us this evening. Council Member Kaplan?

Here.

Council Member Lunden? Here. Vice Mayor Sardinius? Here. Council Member Stoner? Here. Council Member Vazquez?

He's around.

Mr. Mayor, we do have a quorum. Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Mr. Friedman, lead us in the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The next item, Mr. Mayor, is public comments.

Yes. Come on down.

Laudy Barra, 482 Fernwood Road. I'm here to speak on behalf of Venezuela. I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to our incredible Key Biscayne community for the amazing support during this difficult time. It has been truly touching to see so many people come together with such a generosity and compassion. From those collecting essential supplies, to the wonderful group of children making treats and making bracelets to raise money, to everyone keeping Venezuela in their prayers, and every act of kindness has meant so much.

Sorry.

We're with you, we're with you.

A special thank you as well to our brave firefighter from our community, Justin Connors, who is currently there helping on the ground. Thank you for the standing with Venezuela. Kindness and generosity and prayers means more than words can express. Thank you for reminding us that even from away, we are surrounded by love and support. Thank you.

Thank you. We're... very proud to participate in the South Florida task force too. And Captain Justin is part of that group. He's on the ground in Venezuela with 79 other members of that team that that is part of the South Florida contingency that goes all across the world and all across the nation to help out in situations like this earthquake in Venezuela. So Lali, thank you very much for being here and for expressing your thoughts about this situation and how the community comes together in very tough times like this. So thank you very much. Let's go right into the special council meeting that we have to take on these three items. And then we'll have a special presentation. The purpose of tonight is really the budget workshop, so I'm gonna go really quickly through these three items.

Move to the consent agenda, Mr. Mayor.

Okay. I'll move it.

I need a second.

Second.

Thank you. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carries.

Okay. That was 5A.

Yes, the next item is the first reading of a capital project authorizing ordinance of the Village Council of the Village of Key Biscayne, Florida, selecting V&G Construction Solutions Corp for the Harbor Drive milling, resurfacing, and roadway reconstruction project in an amount not to exceed $2,384,688, providing for authorization, providing for implementation, and providing for an effective date.

Move. Second.

Thank you.

This is an item on first reading. This is to do the Harbor Drive. And it'll be back on second reading on August 25th. August 25th. Yes, Mr. Mayor.

Good evening, council. Chris Miranda, public works director for the village. This RFQ went out, and we had 12 respondents to the proposed bid. Two of the respondents did not meet the minimum qualifications, so they were set aside. But we did have 10 bidders qualified. When we reviewed the project, the bids, We went through and we found that the lowest bidder did not have the necessary experience and did not show the necessary experience in. this type of work for a municipality, so we are recommending the second lowest bidder, which is V&G Construction. This project is for the Harbor Drive roadway repavement project, which the county is assisting us with the funding. This is the JPA that we entered into agreement with them a few months prior. The total project will be, excuse me, I left my glasses back in the office.

$2.3 million.

Yes, $2.3 million. Oops, wrong page, that's why. Excuse me, I'm sorry.

The county's contributing $1.9 million.

Correct the county is putting one point nine million the project will include the eight hundred nine hundred block of of harbor drive repaying that that's why it's a little bit more than the low bidder. His proposal his proposal was for one point nine nine five. So the total project that we're asking for is two point three eight. I don't have it in front of me. I apologize. 2.384. 688.

I'm reading.

You're reading? Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

You're going to have to take us all out to dinner here pretty soon.

Yes. I appreciate the help.

Can I ask you one quick question? Yes. And I think you just clarified it, but I want to make sure. There was mention in here that the 800 block wasn't included, which is why we have to pay for it, because it's not considered emergency evacuation. But what you really mean there is the 800 and the 900, the whole Cape Florida section of Harbor Drive, right?

Correct. That end piece, thank you. Thank you very much. That end piece.

Obviously, they're not paying for that.

The county is not paying for that portion. They are only paying from Crandon Boulevard around up to the fountain on Moshla. Does this include the roundabouts? It includes repaving the roundabouts, and the roundabouts will be repaved with textured asphalt.

In other words, the brickwork now will be repaved with textured asphalt.

Will be replaced with textured asphalt. That's correct. Will the bricks be removed? Correct. It will be removed. That's included.

We talked about it. It was brought up a few times about some type of pervious materials you were looking into for that. Did that make any sense on the roundabouts? And was it cost efficient?

we we did do a uh a study on that and we found that it was extremely expensive the county would not pay for it would not assist us in any way to do one roundabout was between uh and i'm going off memory i apologize one point i believe it was 1.4 million to 2 million dollars something in that nature per roundabout we also had a little q a at the last meeting about

roads and permeable surface, and I think you reported then that your analysis reveals nothing in the market that's really satisfactory.

Currently, we don't have anything in South Florida that is satisfactory to build those types of roads.

On a dollar basis, of course.

Correct, feasibly.

Quick question on the additional cost and the contingencies, what are those for?

We included some contingency money in case we have to go and add more asphalt, create more pitch, more ground, just for adjustments as may be necessary.

So you're anticipating that most of the contingencies would cover the surface, not anything underground or when they do rollers and applied additional...

No, contingency only should we need additional payment, yes.

Okay. Additional area?

Additional asphalt, additional layer.

Additional area?

Layers.

Layers. But you're going to roll that with a compactor, right? Yes, yes. And so, okay, so you guys got the utility. If something happens, the contractor's not responsible for any... Correct. Utilities or catch basins, old catch basins and things like that, and when they put the roller there... I didn't hear the last part. When they drive the roller. Correct. If they damage it, they are responsible for it. Well, is that included in the contract? For damaging for any below ground work?

There is no below ground work. I know, I know.

When you put in that compactor, it's driving I don't know how many tons of compaction, right? Correct. So I've seen, the reason why I'm saying it is kind of just to give you a heads up, there could be issues. with if you have any surface utilities, water, or even if you have older catch basins, older structures. Just giving you a heads up.

You're talking the potential impact underground.

Potential impact as a result of these 13-ton rollers that go there. That's an unforeseen cause. They vibrate and they cause breaks and usually something to consider. Just giving you a heads up.

Ultimately, if a contractor breaks a utility, they are responsible with their equipment. So yes, they would be responsible. The contingency, the intent of the contingency is for us to use if we needed or we wanted to add more asphalt to make more crown or to pitch the road a different way, things of that nature.

Okay, thank you. Okay, ordinance before us. Any other questions?

Just real, I'm doing a little mental geography. The 800 block is before the circle.

We're really talking about Cape Florida.

That section makes sense, but I think 800 block is before the circle.

No, 800 block is before the circle. 800 block is, yes, before the circle. That's correct.

I could have called it the tail.

Yes. Okay, so I'm not Unimaginative in my mental geo Okay Madam clerk council member Kaplan.

Yes council member London. Yes vice mayor Sardinia. Yes comes number stoner. Yeah comes our Bosco's yes here Roscoe. Yes, the ordinance is approved on first reading I The next item is a resolution of the Village Council of the Village of Key Biscayne, Florida, selecting various consultants pursuant to request for qualifications number 2026-03 for continuing architectural engineering and planning services, providing for authorization and providing for an effective date.

Move. Second.

Thank you.

Mr. Mayor, my employer has documented business relationships with firms that are included in the recommended pool more than one. And because of this vote, I spoke with the village attorney, and because it's really a vote as a whole, so I have to recuse myself. Thank you. Okay.

See you later.

Go ahead, Chris. Thank you. So this RFQ went out for bid, and we had 22 respondents to 12 different disciplines under the architecture and engineering. I'm sorry, 37. Thank you. 37 respondents to the 12 disciplines. You got that right. There is here with us. We went through each discipline one by one there was a committee that was formed of 5 individuals as you can see in the in the memo. We rated each firm. on each discipline individually. We broke it down. Each firm was given a score and a ranking, and then they were assigned what that ranking was based on each individual discipline. And I keep saying that, but it was quite a tedious task to go through and have to review the proposals of each firm for that discipline. So it's not like we reviewed one proposal one time. We reviewed each proposal as it met each discipline. The committee came out with the rankings for each firm, as I said, and the recommendation for each discipline and each firm. And I can go through each one of them, but I don't know that you guys want me to. This initial phase is to approve the selection of these firms for each discipline, and then we will come back to you with your authorization on that. We will come back to you after we negotiate the rate fees from each firm for each discipline, and we will present that back to you. OK, question.

I have some questions and some concerns. I noticed that these were very large firm heavy firms, all of them, large firm heavy. I'm not sure if that's a good way to explain it. But I think and wonder why we didn't attract more smaller firms, local firms. Do we do anything to try and attract local firms?

We did have some smaller firms that submitted. If I went through each one, I think.

Well, I see GIT was on there, but they didn't make the cut. Correct. EAC. has done work for us in the past. I don't think they're even on there. And of my own thought of some other firms that we might want to be interested in, I don't know if legally we're allowed to reach out to them and ask them to apply or let them know.

They did apply. Their proposals were reviewed. And they were rated and ranked. but they weren't ranked as high as some of these other firms.

Well, we're not privy, I don't think, to the ranking, at least at this moment, to the ranking criterion. And I personally would like to see smaller local firms get extra points just for that.

The ranking criteria was in the RFQ, and you do have the rankings and ratings that were applied by each of the committee members in your packets. Okay. Yes.

If I could address some of her questions as well, Council Member. So we did reach out to all the firms that we've done business before, all the firms that we know of, to let them know this was coming out. We also held a...

We did, Darren, right?

Yeah, we did hold a pre-bid meeting in advance so that any firms that we had, we invited them to come in and ask questions. So exactly what you're saying we attempted to do. We did prioritize their availability. We do not have a small business preference in the village, but what we did try to do is identify firms that would have people readily available. That could imply smaller firms that are more flexible. So they did put that into... consideration there are small firms here but you are correct there are a number of large firms that are across many disciplines three three in particular right but I think we balanced it out and I actually requested you know through the procurement office to make sure I was doing it correctly do add two additional small firms in in two of the sections so that we have a little more flexibility as well because I recognize this same thing that you did as well

Go for it. The two firms there we've had experience with, one of them, Stantec, the dog park, I think the athletic field, what do you call it, the grass, a few other things, and I don't think the experience was very good. It wasn't actually very bad. And I can see they're here. And then AECOM. I mean, after what we've just gone through, to list AECOM is like smacking us in the face. Say, hey, I'm not saying they're not competent engineers because I'm sure they are. I'm sure they're competent engineers and architects. They're a big firm, but they certainly, in my opinion, misled us. Now, again, I'm not blaming them. I was stupid. I listened to them. But I certainly would not reward them by putting them on a list to do business with them again.

They did provide a very, very substantial and qualified proposal.

I'm sure they did. They're a huge firm. We used them once before. We've had experience. We used Stantec. We've had experience. Not good. And we're using them again? I mean, that doesn't make sense to me that, again, I understand only so many people applied and you had certain criteria. But maybe past experience should be part of that criteria. That's all. I don't know how else feels about it.

I think we've had many discussions on this point. And you have an opinion that's not broadly shared in my estimation. Fine. I think we've come to maybe not conclude that there's a degree of scapegoating associated with this.

Scapegoat?

What's that mean? I'm wanting to find someone to blame.

I'm not blaming him. I'm blaming our stupidity. I'm taking responsibility. I'm not trying to tell them. I just think they had responsibility to educate six people who are not experts.

I would agree with that.

They misled us. I can give you incidents where they definitely misled us. Was it legal what they said? Yes. But when they told us the system they proposed, which shocked us initially in cost, was 3.2 inches of rain per hour, And so we figured out when the cost, we got all upset. What really got me upset when I found out how much rain came in an hour, what the probability of that occurring was, and said, wait a second, why don't you tell us, yeah, this could capture all the rain coming out of the skies, but this would cost us a fortune. So that's something, here's the alternative. They didn't tell us that. They didn't do anything until we said, hey, with that meeting with them, I said, wait, this is too expensive before it happened. That's what I'm talking about. I didn't say their engineering is wrong. I'm not saying their calculations are wrong. Not at all. That's what I'm saying.

Is there any reason that we couldn't defer deciding on this and see if we could get any more small firms to participate or that ship has sailed? I'm not voicing the same opinion as Ed in terms of not wanting ACOM, not wanting Stantec because they're big, but I just would like to have more options of smaller firms first.

You could send it back and have it republished and reopen the ability to see qualifications. I don't think that that would prejudice any of the proposers, given that this is just on qualifications at this stage, if you'd like.

It is a three to five year commitment, and that's why I'm concerned that we have a broader

Let's do something. Let's defer the item. I'd like Nancy to work with you on that and Chad and see if we could come back with maybe a little different criteria and then we can decide on which way to go.

Do I need to move to defer it? You can do consensus of council, but what date would you defer it to?

We can bring it back August 25th.

Depends on what the outcome is. Okay, that's true, yeah. Let us do some research, Mayor, and we'll come back.

And I want you to work with Councilwoman Stoner here so that we could see if that's a policy decision and that we want to go in that direction.

Thank you very much.

For what it's worth, one of the architecture firms I encountered in my evaluation committee work in Aventura, they're small and they were very impressive. They made the cut. Good.

Consensus of council.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Thank you.

Okay, we have the presentation left.

And a discussion item. And a special presentation, Village of Key Biscayne Annual Comprehensive Financial Report given by Andrew S. Fierman with Caballero, Fierman, Lorena, and Garcia, LLP.

All right, good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm going to turn it over to Andrew from our independent, unaffirmed Caballero. Fairman and Garcia I would just like to the other in the room that the timing of the audit it is it's not surprise it is later this year it is June 30th which is sorry June 30th which is the state deadline we did have a serious illness within the finance department and did not have the staffing to be able to get it to our normal gold standard which is the end of March so I fully anticipate us to be back to that March deadline that we set internally on ourselves so This year is why you're getting it now kind of in summertime as we're doing the budget. So I'll hand it over to Andrew, who's going to walk you quickly through the financial report.

Thank you. Good evening, honorable mayor, vice mayor, members of the council. Once again, for the record, my name is Andrew Fehrman, and I'm a partner with Caballero, Fehrman, and Garcia, and I am the partner in charge of the villages audit. I'm going to provide a brief presentation on your annual comprehensive financial report for the fiscal year September 30, 2025. I'm going to go right into our auditor's report. It's broken up into various sections. I'm just going to paraphrase a few things and explain a few things within there. The first section is our opinion section. That's the most important section. It talks about what we've audited, as well as our opinion on the financial statements. And that states that we have audited the accompanying financial statements of the village of Key Biscayne, Florida, as of and for the fiscal year on September 30, 2025. In our opinion, the financial statements referred to above present fairly, in all material respects, the financial position of the village as of September 30th, 2025. Now, that's an unmodified or a clean opinion. That's, of course, the only opinion you want on your financial statements. So clean opinion once again this year in your financial statements. The next section talks about what management responsibilities are for the financial statements. The section after that talks about what our responsibilities are as auditors, and that states that our objectives are to obtain reasonable assurance about whether the financial statements as a whole are free from material misstatement and to issue an opinion on the financial statements. So that's what I wanted to point out within the auditor's report, clean opinion, and just to mention that it does talk about managed responsibilities as well as auditor's responsibilities within there. The next thing I'd like to point out is the management discussion analysis. What I wanted to mention here, this is about a 10 to 15 pages of the entire document, which is like over 100 pages. It talks about the year. It compares current year to prior year. And it's written from management's perspective. So there's a lot of good information within here. It's a really good summary of the results of the year within here. So again, if anybody doesn't read anything else in the document, read this. It really has a lot of really good information within there. And that's within the financial section of the report. The next section gets into the actual financial statements. The main thing that I'd like to point out within here is the balance sheet of your general fund, which is here to the left. This is the balance sheet of September 30th, 2025 of the general fund, the operating fund of the village. a snapshot at September 30, 2025. Down at the bottom, the third line from the bottom, there is the total, I'm sorry, the second line from the bottom, total fund balances at the end of the year were approximately $31.9 million in the general fund at the end of the year. Now I'm going to move all the way to the back of the report. We're going to move into the compliance section. The compliance section that we're going to get into now is the section that includes the reports that we have that are required under generally accepted government auditing standards, as well as the rules of the Honor General of the State of Florida. Within these reports back here, we did not identify any significant deficiencies or material weaknesses in internal control, nor did our tests find any instances of non-compliance. That's on the... On the financial statement side, audit side, as well as on the state single audit side, because the village was subject to the Florida single audit this year, and there were two programs that were tested, and we did not find any issues with compliance within those. Nothing significant to report there. Overall, clean reports in the back as well. In addition to that, and you will be receiving a communications letter, and that's the communications to those charged with governance as the council, and it's just specific matters that we're required to discuss with you under our professional standards. Nothing significant to report within there. Just to mention that you're going to see that we did not have any significant difficulties in completing and performing our audit, and we did not have any disagreements with management. Overall, I'd like to thank the finance team, the rest of the village for the cooperation assistance throughout the process. Once again, we got through the audit and we were able to be here to present to you, even with the challenges that the finance department had, to be able to present to you and the village is able to be in compliance with the state statute of submitting by June 30th. So with that, I'll leave it there. I'll open up to any questions that you may have at this time. Thank you very much for the opportunity to present tonight.

Thank you, sir.

In your experience, are we, the extent to which we're funded in our pension obligations, are we a positive outlier in your experience?

The village is, with these defined benefit pension plans, yes. The village is positive in that respect, yes.

Thank you.

Well, thank you very much. Thank you for getting it in on time. And hopefully next time we can spend a little bit more time with you on this. Absolutely. Appreciate it. You're welcome.

And if anybody has any additional questions after this, feel free to reach out to the manager and we can set something up.

It's not a shy group here, I'm sure. If there's any questions, we'll track you down. Absolutely.

The pace at which we roll through the report is the way we like to do things.

All right, Madam Clerk.

Remaining item, a discussion item, FPL installation of hardening equipment and lines. Council Member Stoner.

All right, let's make this quick.

Okay. The manager advised us that FPL was doing some upgrades, and my understanding is the upgrades are going to be performed along Fernwood, and it's about a third of the length of Fernwood, not more than that. But it does involve hardening, meaning fatter, more substantial poles, fatter wires. And the village, as we all know, has already decided we don't want to go the hardening route. So I did have a discussion with our public works director, but I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page and that FPNL is on the same page with us about this. I do not want to find out that somewhere down the line, we have made a decision by allowing these improvements to be installed, that we've made a decision that we didn't understand, that we have foregone some kind of financing ability because we have partial hardening, that we're told that it will be a waste of money to get rid of the hardened improvements when we decide to proceed on the full undergrounding. and that we're not making some kind of inadvertent decision that opts us out of opportunities such as the 25% GAF, which I'm not sure if that program is even existing anymore, or anything else. So I would like to ask the manager about that. And also, maybe we should get something in writing from FP&L. Those are my concerns.

Okay, a lot of questions, a lot of points. Chris, if you'd come up and let me start the conversation.

Can I just interrupt you about one thing, the one other point I wanted to make, because it did come up when I was talking to Chris. of the understanding that one of the reasons that they're doing these repairs is because of an emergency, and the emergency was something that was discovered or uncovered with the most recent power loss that we had that's on Crandon and kind of in that area, Crandon by Winn-Dixie or by the medical building. But that the repairs are actually going to be back up so that if there's a power outage for some reason, that it's going to be backup service for the other side of Crandon. And if that's true, it doesn't make any sense to me because the power outage that we suffered in the condos last year for a day or so wouldn't make an emergency for now. If it was an emergency, it would have been emergency months and months ago. So I don't want to find out that we're using emergency to accomplish something that's not really emergent. Maybe they could do the repair, repair what's there, because it is only going to be temporary. So I'm sorry to have interrupted you.

So thank you, council members. So they've never used the word emergency. If public works director did, then He may have used it improperly. They've always come to us, and they came to us maybe about two months ago or so, for system improvements is what they've called this. It's a system improvement. It looks like Chris has it up right now. So just to be clear on what they plan to do, Chris, if you can throw the cursor down. So coming from West Mosh to, can you put your cursor there, Chris? Yes. Yes. Along Fernwood, going north, down to West Mosta.

Yes. Go down. South, south, south, south, south.

I'm trying to get past. So they're going to come up through there, which is the work that they started on Monday, which was yesterday. Go ahead and run the line, if you would.

So they will upgrade the line behind the townhouses here and behind the commercial properties up to Westwood Drive and This portion along Westwood drive has already been upgraded. But it will tie back in. To the lines that are behind the homes along Fernwood all the way north to McIntyre and it actually. crosses approximately after this first home back over to the east side of Fernwood. Chris, when you say upgrade, do you mean putting new conductors? They're replacing the poles and replacing the lines along that run. They're also adding some new transformers overhead.

Okay.

and possibly one underground that they would need to upgrade.

Answering Nancy's question, is it the same kind of poles we have today, or are they more reinforced, taller, larger?

They're larger to support the new lines. And they're taller. So the reason why they're doing this is to put in more capacity lines, bigger lines, thicker lines. What happened was, you can zoom back out, Chris. If you recall last year when we had the double contingency in the Garden District, which supported the condos that Councilmember Stoner was talking about, what we didn't know, there's also a third line that loops into it, which is the one that we just showed you right there, the one that comes down behind Fernwood, and it actually loops back around and supports the eastern part of the island. It also supports the commercial district as well. What we didn't know, which we actually found out in this in this conversation is that one of those lines actually melted during that time period because once those other two lines went down, it went over capacity, but that they were able to get the other two up in time. So we were almost at the point, I presume, I haven't heard this word, maybe triple contingency. Hopefully that wasn't the word. So I understand your concern, but this is truly just a system improvement. If we want to get in writing as to whether we lose anything, I can imagine we can do that. but they haven't said that this eliminates our ability to underground. That is not in any of our current zones. Can you zoom back out, maybe slide down south a little bit? Zone 8 is the Garden District, which is the one that we're currently moving forward on. Zone 1 is actually west, am I correct, Rowan? Correct. West of that line. I believe that's zone six that runs down the middle. So that won't be done for quite a while.

Why couldn't we just do the undergrounding of that now instead of doing the hardening?

They don't have the budget, and they will not do that.

But if we were to pay for that, which we would be paying for undergrounding if we're going to do undergrounding. So... instead of doing hardening. I'm not saying it is possible. I'm really asking you why.

We've asked that. They said they need it done quicker than that. Now, can we go back and ask them again? We'll certainly do that again if you'd like us to.

What's their investment on this? What do you mean?

Money-wise? Yeah. They haven't given us a number.

But the question where we started from, this is not a bait and switch here. We are continuing with our undergrounding program. Correct. And if they so desire, FPL, to do hardening because they feel that that's in the best interest of their customers here, and as long as it doesn't interfere with our future undergrounding, then...

Right, that is how they explained it to us, correct?

I understand the investment issue. I guess the question would be on the hardening improvements, if we complete that today and we comply with that schedule, whether that would eventually, when we underground it, would that become a stranded investment? Meaning we're hardening right now, then they come in and they underground, are we left with a redundancy? Or what are we left with? Because I think if I understand Councilmember Stoner's comment, correct me if I'm wrong, you want to make sure that we do it correctly, we do it once and we do it Well, right that's that's I don't want to find out that we already hardened something and so that ended up being exactly And and I'm concerned about leaving a stranded investment there because we have to underground because one day once they underground they underground and that will be left out As a redundancy that's built because we had to address a so-called scheduled issue. So I get it This is when projects overlap And so my question to you is, do you guys have any fourth thoughts about that?

There already are portions that have been improved along this area. The Westwood Drive portion that I spoke about where they cross the street and they come back behind the homes. That portion has already been upgraded by FPL. It was upgraded approximately two months ago. And FPL continues to maintain their system. This is what they consider is their, you know, a need for their system.

Their current system. I think we're all overthinking this. You know, I think that we are, perhaps we might think that there is, you know, something going on behind it. We will certainly check to see if there is. But what is presented to us is this is simply just a system improvement. primarily because what happened last year on the eastern side of the island, but they're also benefiting on the western side of the island with this feeder as well. So that is the way it's expressed to us.

I appreciate that. But are we doing, I guess the question is, are we doing any specific investment on this? Do we have to apportion any money for this? No. Nothing? No.

Okay. I'm sorry.

No, go ahead.

So I would like to ask for two things. One, I want to make sure that when we do underground, it's not going to be more expensive for us to take this down than something else that we already have, or substantially more expensive, and also to get something from them in writing that says this is not going to impact us negatively from a financial perspective, that we're not going to lose, because of this installation, some of the financial advantages that we are looking forward to using for the undergrounding project. Thank you.

All right. I suppose one third question occurs to me. If the poles are going to be the concrete pylons like a la MacIntyre, I'd like to know that.

Excuse me? I'm not sure what you said.

The big reinforced... The poles, okay. I thought you said holes. Poles.

Yeah, we'll find out exactly what size poles they are. In some cases, they said they're not going to need some of the large poles, and I think the ones behind the Condos will not be the large ones, but we'll get the exact. In fact, we have the permit. We have the information. We'll be happy to share it with you. Okay.

Yes. All right. Let's go on to our purpose. Motion to adjourn the special council meeting.

Second.

Second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. We're adjourned special council meeting. Now we start budget work.