Economic Development Board - Regular Meeting

All in favor?

Aye. All right. Any opposed? No. All right. Motion carried. Next item will be the work session. This will be to review the updates to the economic development new business guide.

All right. Well, first of all, thank you, Nate, for leading our meeting today. I know we didn't give you a ton of notice, so we appreciate you being here. No problem. All right, so I don't know if y'all remember, so for our new board members and for the ones that have been here over a year, about a year ago this time, we had a conversation about what does the landing page look like when somebody looks up how to start a business in Keller? What are the processes that you have to go through? And we received quite a bit of feedback from y'all and then we had interviews with different business owners and just community representatives of what would it take if somebody has never opened a business to keep people from having those additional headaches because we know that It's not easy opening a business. So some of the, let me show y'all what we came up with. We changed it a little bit. So this is to show you the first look. We literally just published it this afternoon. I definitely would like for y'all, a little bit of homework, to go home after this meeting and in the next week or two, go through the Keller New Business Guide. It's under economic development. Play with it, click on things. Think of, did we miss anything? Is anything confusing? Is there something else we need to add? There's people that have opened many businesses and so they will bypass this and that's okay. But we want to make sure that we are helping anybody who has a question as they're coming to Keller and wanting to open a business here. So the first step that we have on here We have a new site selection tool. We have a new partner called Resimplify. You can make it bigger over here. So if you want to play with our site selection tool, it's really cool. It's over here. But the first thing we want to see, let's say you want to open a business in color and you don't even know where to go. So you can just click on available properties. They will open up.

Can I ask where it pulls from? Does it pull from CoStar?

It does not. OK. Yeah. They have their own. In fact, they can't pull from CoStar. OK. Because CoStar would sue them. So that was actually one of my questions, Stacy, which, yeah, because I wanted to make sure it was as accurate as possible. And CoStar isn't always the most accurate. So we've had several conversations with them. What's really cool about this, if we see something is off, they update it immediately. We have monthly check-ins with them where we go through all the properties to make sure that they're accurate, that they make sense. so this would be ideally the first step when somebody's looking at you know what type of business do they want to buy something do they want to lease something do they want to do that both and then the next step we want to see folks who have questions come to us first before they sign a lease we don't want to see somebody sign a lease for something that's not the zoning that their use requires. So really, if you click this right here, it emails economic development. They might have questions that are more community development specific, but we will filter those so we can be their point of contact. So this is really like a stop before you do anything. Call us. And then we know that sometimes life safety requirements can also be a big surprise. So we want to make sure that folks are learning about this, talking to the fire marshal right away. This right here leads you straight to the fire marshal. And if they have questions about that, they'll come to us and then we'll send them right back to the fire marshal. And then here it gets into if they have zoning questions, plans, planning, this takes you to community development. This takes you to the citizen portal, which is really cool. If you haven't seen it, it's really cool. Which is how you know I'm a government nerd, because I love this. It's very, very cool. You can do just about anything here. And then last but not least, we have our court of ordinances, our UDC, incentives page. This one is going to change, because as you all know, we're actively revamping that. So that will be for the next meeting, just how that page is set up, how the application is set up, state resources, workforce solutions, the chamber, SBA. Obviously, keep it in color. So if you all think of something else we should have on there that would be useful to business owners, please let us know.

And then this right here takes you to... For business owners, could you put maybe a link to the chamber on there? It's on there.

It just says Keller Chamber, not Greater Keller Chamber.

Okay.

We could change that. Yes, please. Sorry.

Yeah, it was on there. Was it something new?

So anyway, so here's some information about our retail area demographics. If somebody in the wild asks you about that, they can come down here, go look up our demographics here. We have maps here, frequently asked questions. So it's just a lot more simplified. There was a lot of information before. But again, this is just an introduction. This is what we have live as of today. So please take a look at it over the next few weeks and send us any feedback. And Donnie, Tommy, Ashley, Jamie, all send me feedback too. Any questions?

I'll send you a list.

I know you will. Do you have a timeline, deadline for the feedback?

Normally before the next meeting.

But please send feedback anytime you find it because we can update this like this. Even simple typos that we've read 13 times and it looks right in our head but we don't notice it or it makes sense to us because we do this every day. If it's in six months, still send it because we want to know.

Is there any kind of AI interface? Like when you look up on chat or for and then it tells you this is what you need this is where you need to go these are the people you need to talk to like yeah do you have a location picked out no okay you're gonna need this it creates a little handbook for you if you will or yeah so we've been looking into that it's pretty costly and so we're looking at what are the options out there what are some avenues it's pretty new for local government to have

AI and then also for it to be 100% accurate, which really needs to be. But then maybe it could be something that's more of like a introductory before they come to us. So there may be something in the future, but for now, we're still kind of looking into it. But we're definitely talking about it behind the scenes.

Appreciate it. So with that, we'll move into the new business section. And the first item on the agenda for new business is consider a chapter 3D economic development incentive request for Hopps Keller Incorporated.

I just realized I was going like this. I need to not do this. in a fight with this mouse. Okay. All right, so tonight we're going to present you with a proposal for an incentive agreement for Hoff's Kitchen and Bar at DeHondra Keller Parkway. This will be a over 7,000 square foot high-end Pan-Asian steakhouse. and the applicants are here, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask them throughout or at the end. The zoning is Old Town Keller, and here is an aerial view of the property. Now, we discussed this project briefly during our June meeting, but just to recap, this is a new upscale dining concept from the ownership group behind Hush. It's intended to expand Keller's destination dining offerings, The estimated private investment is $2 million and they are planning on creating 70 to 80 new jobs. The groundbreaking took place earlier this month. And here are some conceptual images. Okay, so now for the timeline of how we got here. So Hobbs submitted its incentive request in April after permitting and pre-construction work had already begun. Council then directed staff to explore expansion incentive options with the board. In June, the Keller Economic Development Board discussed a performance-based structure that would reimburse a portion of eligible fees at project completion with the remainder tied to future revenue milestones. Council supported moving forward with this proposal, which is why it is back before you today, and it's gonna be going before council for official recommendation, approval, denial tomorrow. So those are our next steps. Tonight you will officially make a recommendation, and tomorrow it'll be a, Okay, so here are the projections and performance review. Hush opened in the fall of 2022 and the applicants provided the following projections and sales actuals for both restaurants. As you can see, they surpassed projections. And then these are their current projections for the new restaurant for Hops.

Why so low compared to Hush?

Because Hush we projected 1.2. Because we like to base on the worst outcome, and then we always go above that. Because over the years when we opened Hush, we just expanded Hush and then we changed the whole entire concept as the business went up in business. Originally, the concept was a little bit different, not higher end. It was more like fast casual. And then over time with the clientele, we decided to change the whole concept overall.

So what's your break-even dollar amount to cover your cost? What do you have to generate each month?

Each month right now, pretty much we 85 to 90 percent. How much? 85 to 90. So we profit like 10 percent, 10 to 15 percent. Just because we are constantly updating everything, we're always investing more into the business itself. So there's a lot of expense going in every single month.

Are the expectations for the same for Ops as it is for Hush?

It is. So with Pops, we have a new concept, obviously, the Pan-Asian Steakhouse. Obviously, the first year of business, you always got to see how business operates. And then we do fine tuning within like six months to eight months and see what changes we need to adapt. And, you know, just kind of see what the city needs, like the customer clientele, what they need. And then we just got to adjust according to that.

Is the incentive based on a minimum yearly revenue? Let me show you.

So these are the permit and impact fees that they have already paid. And so what we would be looking at reimbursing would be that, excluding the Fort Worth impact fee, because we can't reimburse that one. So over here, and this is just a proposal. here tonight, we can change the percentages to what you see fit. The reimbursement would be earned. It could not be earned all at once. So after the initial, and this is just for example, 15% that would be reimbursed during when they get their CO, each remaining portion is tied to a specific performance year. So you couldn't earn it all the first year. It would have to be hitting different revenue thresholds over time. And these projections are higher than what the applicant provided, just with the intention of making sure that there's something to strive for, and especially, yeah, and then also, yeah, the size of the restaurant and the quality of food and beverage that they know they're going to provide.

I would like to, I'm the general contractor on the project, in my house as well. The amount of money that they're investing is definitely way over two million. We suspect it. Yeah. And I think that we have to be conscious about their revenue at that point. Because currently, the traffic directs from there. This is going to be his entrance. And I think they're going to be impacted by that. And I think that if we can figure out a way to offset some of these losses or figure out how to help them, that would be amazing. Because I know that they're investing. They're not going cheap. I do projects day in and day out. So what's the total build-out cost then? So far we're at 2.5. How much? 2.5 million. I think it's going to be in and up 3 million bucks. I'll be honest with you. Is there an entrance off Keller Parkway or is it just off? That Keller Parkway is, it could come in, you're going to be coming into the funeral home and then turning right in there. People are going to want to go from there. They don't want to go from Trinidad home. And I honestly always wanted to have them come from those streets.

Well, the original plan we had, we had the entrances on both sides. And then the street, we had to adjust our plans and we had to redo them. We had to redo the symbols to add that sidewalk. So we had to close it off. So instead of having... is we had to redesign the entire parking lot once we found out about that portion. Because I think the easement took over and then we had to adjust our LAF. You see over there, the northwest corner, that little top corner, that used to be an entrance. Now we have to close that off.

So it'll be on the south side?

Yeah, it's only on the south side and then the parkway now.

It's not an inlet that will support some of the water that will be coming from that street. It's going to flood onto his parking, his and hers. Also, as well, that there is a detention pond, a detention, yeah, a detention that will capture some of that water. But man, he's going to be the source of water that is going to be running off from Elm Street if we don't catch it. Can I get up a little bit? Sorry. Yeah. So this is Elm, right? And he's going to be creating parking building. Water's going to come through as well here. I don't see any inlets on that side. I'm not catching something blurry, but I know right here is going to be pretty tight on how much water's going to come in there into his parking. We're planning to, you know, save as much as we can on water to bring it in if it's his property but if it's anything is going to come from that we have no calculation to that and I think we're going to have issues from Elm Street.

Is Elm going to be... Delegation? We don't even know what delegation is.

I think from the way it looks and how Elm is working on it and going every single day, I think it's going to be on the same level as his parking, their parking. I think we're going to have water runoff. The building is higher.

We're safe.

But I don't know how much it's going to rain. And when it rains, it rains. We need to think about that pretty fast before it gets to a point where we're done. I appreciate you sharing that background information. Yeah, and I'm sorry. I'm talking. I care very much for them, and I'm working on this project. But I've seen this before, and I did some projects in Wiley, and I kept telling the city, hey, watch this, watch this, watch this. And then we finished, and then it flooded.

There's all these different challenges that we have to work through. Some of it's relevant to the decisions we try to make here and then some of it spills into other boards and folks that deal with that. So we'll try to make our best decision here. Thank you.

Anna, do you have an overlay of what we're asking as projections versus what they were giving as projections? I know it's on a couple different screens.

Yeah, I can go back and forth. I don't have it back to back.

and so those kind of go in the favor of the city and the tax base that we're challenging them for some pretty aggressive growth goals.

Yeah, and we can actually have the table that I used if y'all wanted to. We can kind of play with the percentages and change it up. So whatever recommendation y'all want to take tomorrow with the council, we can definitely do that.

The only question I would have on that is Were those informed at all by other similar restaurant performance within the area?

Yes. Are you all expecting the new restaurant to be a higher performer than Hush or about the same?

About the same, but we are making the tables a little bit bigger so we have lower seating capacity. We're getting new furniture in to make it more spacious. Because the biggest feedback we get from clientele is, it's very tight. As a new business leader, we've got to see how everybody reacts to everything. So now we have to change our put and hire floor plan. We're obviously going to shrink the table counts, but bigger tables. So with this new concept, we decided to go bigger in table size and less capacity. We don't expect it to go super premium. We want it to be in between where a fast cab, you can come in, have a quick lunch, or you can have a full day night. So our menu is going to be from 10 to 20, 50, 60.

What is the kind of seating capacity for hops right now?

I think we're right about, let me check how many chairs I have. That will get me. They get better than me. 180, and then we're going down to 110. So Hobbs is pretty much... Is that including the bar area? Yes. It's just because we want... No. Oh, we didn't count the patio and hush. Hush patio would probably get like 20 seats.

We're not getting 200 during the summer on the patio.

This is how many seats we have, but we obviously don't expect every seat to be full because it's too cramped. So that's why we're working on more spaces for everybody when they come in. So we're getting bigger tables, bigger chairs, more space apart.

Answering your question, the ticket will be higher at Hobbs due to the nature because we're having steak. to prime to age and they go up to 80 90 dollars and then what goes along with steak wine so typically these wines are 52 north of 200 so tickets are going to be a little higher i don't know i've been hushed it's the cocktails that get you exactly exactly like you can come in here with hush you know two two people and an appetizer 50 for lunch easy however if you want to stay in lincoln drink cocktails i have very

do we have enough uh information for this board to make a decision well i wanted to bring up oh sorry go ahead aaron all i was gonna just clarify i made a comment about detention bond and elm street

along both the east and west side, at least the east side of Elm Street along that property line, and that should include sidewalk as well. So the water from the street would go into the curb and gutter activity. So just making sure that that, we'll clarify that, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We're in contact with Charles, Mr. Charles. Charlie. Charlie.

And we, you know, we get, we're the one that kind of come in here and kind of ask questions, so he provides information he can. He can?

We want to do what's best for the city, of course, and that's why I'm here with the HOPS, just to make sure that we're all aligned, just talk about it.

And they're doing site selection on South Lake. And they're kind of seeing that they're in high water. They might spill together. So I'm just saying, seeing that group might come this way. This is kind of amazing that they're bringing in hops here.

Okay, so I wanted to show you all the incentive policy. That's one of the documents that you have with you so you can look through. When we went through to see how does this apply to what we're looking for that it meets the incentive goals that we have. So HOPs meets that, it enhances the commercial viability and sustainability of Keller. It attracts desired businesses and private investment, encourage redevelopment in Old Town Keller, creates employment, and expands the city's tax base. It meets the general eligibility. I don't want to type it all out for y'all, so here's the document. You can see all what that includes. And then section four, it meets high priority business, which this is a pretty big goal for the city. High quality, full service restaurant, It's part of a priority geographic area. It is experiential retail that is family friendly and will attract visitors to Keller to enjoy a unique experience. And it will be a high sales tax generator. And then here is a summary of what we just went over.

You said you compared it to other restaurants, and they're seeing four million within four years.

With the ticket price, high-end steakhouses that provide really, really good wine and liquor, and I know they're going to have the best of the best, it is comparable. I mean, it is definitely the city asking for performance, and it is comparable. It is from what we've seen, it seems doable.

Is that a tough doable or in-the-bag doable? I mean, we want to have a reasonable floor. We want it to stretch, but...

I'm not a fortune teller, so I don't know what life will look like in three or four years. I just did a straight comparison with comparable businesses, but obviously this is completely up to your recommendation, City Council's recommendation, so I'm happy to take whatever y'all decide tomorrow night to counsel. Can you go back and look at the end?

The level that you said, yes.

Yeah, 3.1, 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5.

I don't really have a vote, but I feel like we're more than doubling what they're projecting. And granted, they've said that they come in on the low end. I just don't know if we should do that much of a jump.

Yeah, well, I'm going off of what Hush is doing. That's a $3 million to $4 million range. I mean, we want it to be an incentive. We want it to be an achievable one.

So we have a lot of business out of state, look at how numbers usually look. Realistically, every single business start up high because it's a new concept. And then the second year, it's going to be a dip. No matter how big your business is, it's going to be 100% a dip. The third year, it's going to be another dip. The fourth year is when you start kind of balancing out. So these projections, honestly, is it easy to do? I mean, we hope for the best, right? But realistically, in the restaurant industry, Year two and three are always the toughest year for a business to see if you survive or not. Year three, year four is usually when you start kind of figuring stuff out, balance your numbers, and see what you have to do to make sure your business is going to be a long-term business instead of a quick in-and-out business. We're obviously here to stay. We don't plan to build a restaurant just to sell. I mean, that's something we thought about doing in the past. But for here, Keller's home to us, so we want to invest what we can in Keller and pretty safe. This is where we want to hit. The numbers we set out is the numbers we want to make sure we at least hit, so we can take care of everything else. But if it goes higher than that, everybody wants a higher number.

And what were your projections, though?

I think we projected first year like 2 something. 2.1, I think. Yeah, it was 2.1. 2.1. Let me zoom in so that we can do some math here.

So we can change these.

So what's our taxable revenue to the city from those numbers, roughly? 2%. It's 1%. Oh, it's 1%. It's 1%.

So for the general fund, it's 1%, which is all that we can reimburse.

OK. Is this our largest incentive so far? Or have we had one higher than this?

We've had a couple higher ones. Flexed is higher. The hotel. The hotel, okay.

So the first question is revenue threshold. You know, that drives everything else.

Yeah, so it's essentially a whole million higher than what they provided?

I understand that they come in a little conservative, admittedly, but, you know, even if we're like a 2.5 or 2.75 instead of a 3.1, something like that it still goes up but that still should be in the get range based on hushes history and if there's a little wall but it's not too much of one hopefully that still puts you in you know a floor that's still a good number I'm like wait what just happened all have a gut feeling on what you internally expected to do? I know you have your conservative projections.

So realistically, we're really basing it off how Hush is doing. Realistically, the first year is going to be right between 2.7 and 3. The second year is going to be pretty similar. We hope they don't drop too much. But for a new business, it's always And then third year is usually where we kind of see, like, hey, stable changes, and hopefully that year will be a bounce back, and then year four, after that, it should be at a steady pace. But, you know, business is always, especially restaurants, it's always a challenging kind of business. You've got to feel how it is. I mean, there's going to be a lot of changes. We already know that from the get-go. Like, once we open... the concept's gonna be what it is, and then we'll just have to adapt.

That's more realistic right there. I mean, we've never done this concept before. I mean, we've always wanted to challenge ourself. We're still young. We're here. We're here to stay. So we want to do something refreshing and just new, something that challenges us, something that makes us want to get out of bed. It's like, hey, let's go. Let's go get it. So this is going to be a really, really fun project. Projection-wise, I mean, I think we can throw out numbers all day long. Until the day opens, I don't know. I mean, this is what we're serving. Here's our menu. We have top to best. We have the best of the line, best service, best food, best cocktails. That's what it is. I mean, with Hush, when we first opened, it was nothing like what it was. We looked at the pictures. Yeah, we looked at the pictures, and we're like, I think this is what we're going to do. This is what we're going to do. We moved to Texas. It was supposed to be a t-shirt, jean kind of service, a fun menu, an eclectic menu that my kids would enjoy, my friends and family would come in and dress up and dress down. That's kind of the vibe that we're going for. I guess from start to finish, Tommy and I start picking stuff that we enjoy. Like, oh, this chair is comfy. We should get this. This chair is fun. We should get this. Oh, I like that lamp. Start picking stuff. And somehow it just kind of came together like an artwork. The doors open. And then it kind of turned into this giant thing. I'm like, holy cow. I didn't realize this was a cool restaurant. I don't know. This is something we like to do. So then we changed our uniform to a button-down. And it became a tie. And it became a vest. And then we started working on wine glasses.

We're learning all that. And then whatever else we come up with within the next year or so. Hopefully put it all together.

This could be very exciting for us.

I don't want to be so high up and then it opens. It's like, oh, I'm so sorry, guys. So I want to just go in a little more humble, a little more chill, like, hey. Like a realistic.

I don't want to fantasize as much as everybody else, but it's life. Sometimes it's harder, sometimes it's easier, but we just got to go on and figure out from day one what we can achieve. That's kind of our goal.

I like that.

That's what I... Because I know, because just thinking that I'm allowed. 25 on year one. 25 on year one, 25 year two, 20, then 15.

And honestly, I have to say, you have wonderful service. Your review tells it all. And I think that you have active owners that are great partners for the state.

So a lot of times, we talk about leakage, and we talk about people having to leave the city to go and get one of these experiences. Well, now we're going to actually be able to pull, and folks will come in. So this is where we get this virtuous cycle. And we can't invest taxpayer dollars towards something that will actually be a benefit to everybody. But yeah, I think these percentages seem to make sense.

Have you guys heard about go-karts for the city?

so our recommendation has been here to read we've changed the revenue thresholds made them more realistic based on the input from the business owners we've also tailored the percentage of totals to match the comfortable moving forward with this as a recommendation for council.

Yeah, but does that change the totals on the reimbursement side?

Yes, it automatically changes it. It updated.

I make a motion to present a council this way.

I second.

All right, item D2 is to consider a City of Keller facade. Thank you very much. Item D2 is to consider a City of Keller facade improvement grant request for 128 Bates Street, Keller, Texas.

I'm going to step outside because I am representing them in writing their leases. So that way, I mean, I don't vote anyway, but just so I don't say anything.

So Nate, we're going to do both. So it's one development, two different properties. So we thought we'd walk you all through both facades at the same time. But you'll be voting separately for each. So once we get to the end, we'll remind you all.

So it's one development for two properties?

Yes.

So good evening. Tonight we'll be presenting a facade improvement grant for 128 Bates Street and 136 Bates Street. So 128 and 136 Bates Street is located in Old Town Keller. The project name is the Keller Depot. No business, no businesses currently occupy the two properties. There will be business names, but they currently don't have one. The applicant and authorized agent for the property is Ashley Hernandez, who is here today, along with her business partner, Jamie Hurley. So the estimated Total project cost for 128 Bay Street is $23,820 with a grant request of the maximum of $10,000. And then 136 Bay Street, the total estimated project cost is $22,500 with the maximum grant request of $10,000. So this is just an aerial view of the properties here, just so you guys can see where they're located. And then here's a before street photo of 128 Beach Street. So what the applicant plans to do is remove any rotten wood and replace siding, sheathing, windows, and trim with hardy siding and trim or equivalent, expand the porch and add railings. The applicant also plans to paint, replace awnings in the front door, also add uplighting and landscaping. The applicant will install a walkway in the front of the property to tie into 136 Bates Street. And then here is the before for 136 Bates Street. Similar improvements as well, the applicant plans to remove any rotten wood, replace siding, sheathing, windows, and trim with hardy siding and trimmer equivalent. The applicant also plans to paint at awnings, uplighting, and landscaping. And the applicant will install a walkway in front of the property to tie into 128 Bates. And then just conceptual renderings here for 128 Bates Street. Give me a second to kind of reflect on that. And then the conceptual rendering for 136 Bates Street that reflect those proposed improvements.

So the top picture is the front.

Yeah, this one, it was just together. So I just included it so you can kind of see the overall picture. But any of the improvements would only be street facing. That was referenced.

Can you go back to the other one?

Yeah. And then here's a current picture of the property. 136 is on the left, 128 is on the right. The yellow house, that actually was taken. We did a site visit today just to see the status of the property. We'll have a few more photos just so you guys can get the picture. Here are some more pictures as well of 136 and 128 Bates Street that were taken today for a site visit.

So what's the city code say about as far as having the sidewalks done?

So it's more of a pathway. It's not a sidewalk. It's a pathway connecting the two.

Sarah, there shouldn't be an issue. Yeah, so there's no sidewalk insulation requirement from the city because we've already put in all the pedestrian walkway on Bates Street. I think what's included in the project is the connection from Bates Street because there's not a great, I think in some of the spots there's not obviously a great way to get from the street to the buildings is what she's proposing.

It is referenced. That's how the contractor referenced it, but I'm referring to this. Yeah, you see that path right there.

That's $3,900 for that. And $1,700 for the other one.

Concrete's very expensive. I'll hop to ridiculous. Because it's going to be more of a gravel stone, not necessarily more of a pathway walkway than a sidewalk. But it is referenced as a sidewalk on the estimate. OK.

Everyone had a chance to view this before we proceed?

All right. Here's the estimated cost breakdown provided by the applicant and their contractor. You also have your own copies as well, which talks about the improvements referenced earlier. Just removal and prep, framing and porch, door replacement, walkway installation, paint, awnings, landscaping.

Just a... How's the property going to be used? And that's Keller Depot. What's it?

So right now it's a couple phases that we're working on. This is phase one. We do have a tenant that is signing a lease on the cottage. We haven't confirmed to share that publicly just yet, but it is going to be a dessert type concept, sweets concept in that small cottage. So we do have a confirmed tenant for that. We are in negotiations. We have about five LOIs submitted for the property on the left to be a coffee shop. And that's been the goal and vision for that 136 base. So we're still in negotiations, but it will be a coffee shop.

So it's called the Killer Depot. I don't know. But you're doing a facade around it for two separate entities.

Yeah, so the businesses don't have a specific name. This is the overall development. I know. Oh, OK.

Keller Depot and shows both properties together.

So they are individual plots. They are individual. They're side by side. So they are two separate properties. They will be two separate businesses inside the structures that will have tenants. The overall property we're deeming as the Keller Depot, I think when you see more of the full vision or see the concept of the Keller Depot, there's additional phases of this. So phase three is actually to develop the land itself. So we have just shy of a little over a half acre, just shy of three quarters of an acre. So we will be developing out the land more. We have a partnership with the Keller History Museum. If you see, if you go back to the pictures that you'll take today.

I might address this question. So where's your line of questioning around whether this could potentially be double dipping

And so they're not a combined plat. The concept of Keller Depot is really just a destination that we're deeming for the full project in its entirety from phase one to phase two.

So the concept for the depot basically is combining both, but still as a standalone. Each business, each one is a standalone, but the depot is like your umbrella that you're using to bring both together. Is that accurate?

So the depot is really the experience. We're kind of making this, we're taking it beyond just leasing buildings. We want to create an experience in Old Town Keller. And so the Keller Depot is kind of almost creating that destination experience. in that backyard, and that's kind of off to phase three. Phase one is the two individual structures itself, so the two separate properties, but we're calling it really getting to phase three.

Yeah, I think that's probably where the clarification is to be. Because if it's presented that way, presented the depot and it looks like it's both business, that's the umbrella that brings both of them together rather than the standalone.

So the colored depot is not, so that's kind of, I think they're just trying to share the full concept of the property itself with it being a destination. That little red building in the center is a historic ticket booth. And so we're kind of leaning into the color history with the branding of the properties. But each individual, they are specifically separately platted. They are separate structures. And that's why in talking with the city, the recommendation was that they are two separate applications as well. Because technically, even with who we're leasing to, they are also two separate entities. So it's just a structure of how we're presenting it in marketing.

OK, so one is the dessert shop, and then the other is the coffee shop.

Yeah, all are separate entities, and all are not confirmed leases. So they're not applying for it. We're essentially applying because we're doing the phase one development, which is all the landscaping, the buildings itself. They were in distress. So each individual property, so maybe in the wording, can be adjusted because technically there's an LLC on each individual property. The Keller Depot is really just a branding concept to market the property itself as a destination for the full lifespan of the of the phases we actually will be presenting so they're just kind of presenting phase one does the shop going in have any history for other businesses or is this their first time at what they're doing yes so the one that we do have confirmed they are currently a business they don't have a brick and mortar this is their first brick and mortar They do own other types of businesses that are in a brick and mortar and then the dessert concept that they currently do, they do it like at events, they do mobile and they have done stuff on Bay Street and in the City of Color in the past.

My question was related to the payments of the structures because these are older structures and they were destroyed to rehab these properties, and you run into things you didn't expect. And so, could you help us understand, like, when does taxpayer money get used, and do we give them a reimbursement at the end, and so then they would be, we would only pay out in the event that the project

Yeah, because normally when the improvements are completed, we receive all kinds of documentation that the facade improvements, that they have paid the companies that they're working with, the contractors, that we need pictures, all kinds of proof of it. We haven't had a situation where we're waiting until all of it is finished, have we?

Can I just share to that, just because I'm familiar with this experience? It is typically when everything is to its full completion and everything is signed off from contractors with receipts in order to get reimbursement, all of that does have to be submitted. So everything does have to be completed in its own .

But I think what you were asking is when the full remodel job is complete, not just the facade. Not just the facade.

Yes, full remodel. So some of the facade improvement grants are for just facades. We've got an existing business. It is established commercial grade property. And there's not a lot of risk to the city in terms of we understand what the facade is. We understand where that's going. Where this is starting to get us into some you know, a different kind of project that we maybe haven't considered before with the historic building. And there could be some unforeseen things. And I'm kind of thinking about this more from a procedural standpoint if we have more of these that come in. They're just a little bit different than the cookie cutter facades. After it's completed. Exactly. Yeah.

I don't have a problem with that part.

You could add, your recommendation could be with those terms. I believe that's an option.

Meaning condition it on reimbursement at the time that the full remodel is completed.

So he mentioned, is one of them historic building? Which one? I don't think they have a designation, a historical designation. No, because you know, she mentioned the museum. They've been around a very long time. Yeah, she mentioned the museum, and most museums are categorized as historical buildings in different cities. So when you mention that, that's why I asked.

Yeah, no, I know exactly why you think that. How many historical designated buildings do we have? We don't have a ton. Maybe the Rock Gym, maybe the Elm.

I think Borland Cemetery has a designation.

Yeah, you are historical.

I would like to share a little nugget, too, just looking at the big picture. So in Roanoke, there's the candy shop, which would be a similar concept. They have been successfully running that shop since 2012. That is a beautifully long time, and there's no end in sight for how successful a shop will be.

Yeah, we feel confident that we, and also just to kind of give you perspective on timelines, we have pretty strict timelines, especially because we do have tenants so heavily interested in these properties. We haven't even started renovations. We have five LOIs that came in for the property on the left. And then we've had one specific LOI that came in with other levels of interest that didn't fully get to the point of submission on the LOI because we felt really confident about the one that we decided to pursue for the cottage. But we also have timelines and deadlines for them as well with these different phases. And so we feel pretty confident on the timeline we're going to be able to work through for those reasons because we do have other parameters that we're trying to also get these laced out.

How big are the buildings?

I'm sorry?

Square footage of the buildings?

The one on the right, we're actually doing it. So both are getting small additions. So currently the one on the right is approximately – I've been running numbers, so forgive me. It's roughly about 700 square feet currently. We are doing an addition to get that to 1,000 square feet total. So there's going to be an addition going off the back of that. On the coffee shop on the left, it is currently about 1,138, I believe. And there will be an addition going off of the back of that, which you saw in that bottom photo in the conceptual, of approximately just under 400 square feet off the back of it.

So it'll be about 15 plus.

Yeah, a little under $1,500. Yeah, it'll be in the $1,400s.

Yes. And then we do have additional phases. I don't know if we'll talk about that in the other presentation. But there's additional phases to bring in additional sales tax revenue. But we will be just doing retail. So yeah, you'll have retail in both. That will be sales tax generated.

So is that the path it's showing? Is that the line that's going across from one building to the other?

No. So if you go back to the city's picture, so part of what that path is, if you see the distance between the two, specifically, it's all within that. So we have to connect into the sidewalk as well. So you have where the stairs are, we're going to be connecting there. So that's that shorter path. But we didn't have like a blown out. We kind of just did individuals Conceptual pictures, but together and I do have a you know, do you have a picture of the full like I do in my presentation?

So that one comes. Okay, maybe that'll help.

So a lot of the sidewalks or the pathway space and that in between it's a pretty expansive space that's full of grass and that you'll be kind of seeing, and that's where a lot of that cost is coming from, is connecting those two, and then the entrance into the center.

So this one's a little bit complicated to work through because we have kind of multiple properties, and so we, and it's a little bit different than a pure facade because there is so much work that's going on, and then we also have the costs and the money that are being requested, and so we'll have to work through that. Anna, what is the goal of the output of this group tonight?

Yeah, so we have the two separate Facade Improvement Grants, and then after Melanie's presentation, I have a separate presentation for this development for a couple different requests under Chapter 380 agreement. So overall, you're gonna see two facades, a different incentive request. The goal is really to walk away with recommendation changes, something that we would take in front of council.

Okay, so if we're doing that also in the 380, the chapter 380 part of it, Ashley, what would be your, you know, once this is completed, what would your best guess for revenue projections out of the two sites?

I mean, I will tell you from our perspective, we're developing the properties and leasing them, and so we will not be the businesses that will be producing the sales tax revenue within these buildings.

Right, but you're going to charge a certain amount of rent that requires a certain amount of business to be able to afford a rent and operations.

So will they all be tax revenue generating businesses, or will some be not as much?

They all will be tax generating. As far as that goes, to be honest, I wouldn't be able to give you fair projections on that because that's not something I prepared for today. But I can just tell you that currently we do know that there's a retail dessert candy shop going in that smaller unit and then definitely a coffee shop. We just don't know which one. But I wouldn't be able to predict.

Can we ask what kind of rent factor? What kind of leases?

Yes. So we do have a, on the cottage, we have a five-year with two five-year options. that they're committing to is at a 28 a square plus triple net. And then the coffee shop we're still in negotiations, but we are, starting negotiations in that realm. But I will say, so far in those discussions, without getting into too much detail, because like I said, we're still in negotiations, all people that have presented want a minimum of five years with two to three five-year options. And they will be making substantial investments into specifically the coffee shop.

Are you building these out for specific concepts, or are you going to give TI for them to build out the inside?

They'll, depending on negotiations, it'll be essentially either TI or they'll be... Do you know what the nets might run? It depends on who we go with, but to be honest, I wouldn't be able to. I could see if I could get something to follow back up with you guys. I just don't want to give you fictitious numbers. I've never, I don't.

The reason why I asked earlier about separate entities, on page two, it shows money for going to 128 and 136 Bale Street. So they're being billed together.

Yeah.

Yeah, I confirm with Ashley that that is just essentially a type of an error with the

So initially, when we were first putting this together and talking this through with the city, we just presented one estimate on the full scope of what we were doing. And they wanted a breakout between each property. So then we went back and made those separations. But I think when they showed me this earlier today, in that separation, that one number wasn't removed. But all the other numbers were updated.

So the $5,400, is that basically for both of them then, since it wasn't removed, or is that coming out?

No, this is all updated, but just right in here in that one part. I went back and confirmed with the contractor, and then I did provide, the contractor went back through and made sure that everything was accepting appropriately. They just printed, but I did send it about an hour before the meeting.

So the $5,400 is just for the dates? Everything on 1-36. For the trim and the windows and all that stuff?

Yeah, that's the breakout for that, yes. All the numbers that are priced out are based on each individual building. And realistically, I mean, this is just kind of a fraction of the cost of the overall investment with what we're doing for the properties. We just kind of diced out what's actually front-facing. I know sometimes when applications come in here, they'll give you the full total of the entire project, but maybe that's also including the back or areas that's not seen from the street. And so what we essentially tried to do was kind of parse out what's actually street-facing within the budget overall for that entire property. But overall, I mean, the spend is much higher on the building itself, but this is all just street-facing.

Any other questions on that before we go? And then we saw this earlier, but this is just the applicant's site plan for both properties. Building permits are currently under review for the expansions. There are no zoning issues or concerns currently. Any future use would have to comply with OTK zoning. And what's been proposed to be in these two properties does fit the zoning use. And then moving on to the financial impact. So this would come out of the fiscal year 2027 budget. Just a reminder that development grant budget is $35,000. Additional funding and capacity available through the economic development incentive budget if needed and approved by council. So the total grant request for 128 Bates Street is $10,000. These are two separate items and requests. And then the total grant request for 136 Bates Street is gonna be $10,000. And then just here, per the Facade Improvement Grant application, here are some items to consider. I won't read them, but we just always have them up at each time. And then the Economic Development Board has the following options when considering a request for the improvement grant. Recommend approval as presented. Recommend approval with changes and or conditions Recommend denial. Do you have any questions? Additional questions? Let me pop back over to 128 baits. Just so you guys can see them separately.

These look like they're going in the direction of what we talked about with the whole town teller. I think some of the complications are that there's a board member bringing this in, which complicates it. There's also the two properties and getting the numbers straight. I'm not gonna speak for the whole board, but for me, I would like to see a clear designation between these two properties and a better itemization of the work. I think before we could present it to council to get those descriptions and things really clear just because we do have to handle this one very carefully. Yes.

Is there a limit on this based on what's left in our fund?

This one, these two would be coming out of FY27. Do we have anybody left in FY26?

We have a little over, let me go to it. How about it?

Yeah, at this point.

It's a little over $3,000. Does that just go back to the general fund? Yeah, it would go to the general fund. So we have $3,060.50 left in this year's budget, which ends October 1. Yeah, so timing-wise, we wouldn't be able to get another one through.

We're at FY26. So FY27 begins when? October 1.

So I just want to clarify a few things, if that's OK. So just to kind of go back to, this is the difficulty we have. These properties are right next to each other. But they are two separate flat-ed properties. We bought them as such. And with that said, when we got the estimates, we were very clearly directed. And we have separate budgets for each property We have separate LLCs for each property. As far as the representation of the concept of the Keller Depot, I think that perspective was more so that public-facing marketing kind of aspect of how we're promoting the property. It's how we were able to garner so much excitement and also honestly garnered the interest with the leases based on the overall vision of the Keller Depot and leading into that Keller history. But just to be clear, just legally, these are two separate flats. These are both under two separate LLCs. So are their budgets. Are you on both LLCs? So I am a part owner. This is my partner with the Hyven Holding. But you're on both. So the Hyven Holding actually owns both LLCs for the properties. So I'm a partner in the Hyven Holding, and the Hyven Holding owns the LLCs. So yes, I mean, yes.

I'm just looking for the answer. So yes, you're a partner in both LLCs.

Yeah, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that these are two separate properties.

I'm not taking that away. I just wanted to know where it was. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, yes, and I own another property right behind it, but regardless, these are two separate properties, two separate entities, two separate quotes that we presented. Separately from that, I do just also want to address, and I'm assuming everyone does know, I did resign also from my position with the Economic Development Board.

And I think, going back to what you mentioned, I think the fact that the concept and the idea is coming from a board member Yeah, you've tendered in your resignation. There's so many things we could think about. But to his point, I see what he's saying. And that's something to think about. And also, I know we've not addressed this yet. There's also the 380 economic incentive. And so because it's coming from want to say for my board member, it's just something, it's trendy waters. Let me put it that way.

Well, and I think we had this discussion, I think, in depth with the city. And I actually personally volunteered my own resignation to not create any concern or faulty waters for the sake of transparency. I would like to defer as far as to the city, Sarah and Anna, with our discussion that we had on Friday that this has been reviewed on a legal basis, and I have also talked with the mayor. So this is, I'm going off of the suggestions as far as what's available, and also, you know, doing my best to kind of navigate that.

And I appreciate you sharing that. I think, I know I had sent the question, I asked the question when you came, because as a, you know, any commission whatsoever in any municipality, it's considered by Texas Code as a public official, and according to that, public official you know we did not receive any conflict of interest information when we got the information which will have accompanied the information for us and then would have understood that okay because that's just procedural that's just some the norm so that did not come because according to that code there would have been a conflict of interest

So in terms of the facade grant, and again, I don't know that I want to debate this with you, but I will just kind of say, at least from experience, I also own 139 Olive. I'll be very transparent. I have received a facade grant in the past in 2022 or 2023 for a different property that is in this area that very much kind of is still in alignment with what is allowed. And in the area of conflict of interest, in that area, while I was serving, I recused myself and stepped aside from partaking in conversation, and I was able to proceed forward.

To my understanding, it's a little bit different with the Chapter 380, and so in that instance... Yeah, so with the Facade Improvement Grant, when you look at the application and the terms, there's no specific language around the facade specifically in having to step down from an appointed official role. It's something that we're going to verify with our attorney before this gets taken to counsel. But as Ashley mentioned, she's not the only one. There's been a few others because the application itself doesn't state it. And so we're definitely going to review it. But also, just to remind y'all, we are revamping the whole thing. So the facade, life safety, chapter 380. So hopefully when we do that, we can look at legal terms across the board.

So it makes sense for us to table it for now until it gets a better clarification and also get the second page cleaned up so it doesn't say both 128 and 136 for the windows?

It doesn't.

With the Chapter 380, when we did look more, we never had a board member or an appointed official request a Chapter 380 agreement, so this is a little bit new for us in how we handled it. Yes, to my knowledge, to our knowledge, So when we were doing our due diligence, really reading every word of the potential resolution is when we caught that it shouldn't just be recusing herself. It should be additional to that. So that's when we have the conversation about, OK, the facade doesn't have this specific language, but the chapter 380 does. So if this were to go forward, the chapter 380 that I'm going to show you here in a minute, then Ashley would have to step down.

of how we ended up here thank you for that explanation all right so i guess um we will table this one until the next uh meeting do we need to take a vote on that you can make a motion i'll make a motion to postpone this or we will table this for now and we will continue this discussion at the next meeting and we will request job descriptions for each property to make sure they're clearly separated and we understand that. We'll also research any conflicts of interest and understand if there's anything

second all right all in favor so just to make sure that we are super clear so the documentation that you want to see at the next meeting is a revised just a revised one too

And also a clear delineation, I would probably suggest not to use the word depot at this point. Just make it a standalone for each one, what you will call 126, 128, and what you will call 136 as a standalone, two standalones. That way it's clear. To be fair. So I'm not using that. To be fair.

She did present as two separate. I just asked because I saw the advertising. The advertising shows it all being one kind of complex. That's why I asked.

It might be two separate properties, but it's almost like one piece of property.

It seems like it's an office park. I mean, for lack of a better word, it's the name of an office park and then your individual business in the office park.

But there's going to be additional things in the back.

Part of that is just to show the growth and the additional process and really... You know, income generating for the state.

And it's a great concept. I'm just saying that at this point, because it's throwing more confusion than clarity. And so it would be much better served for it to be standalone. Take one step at a time. OK.

So I was actually going to make a comment about that.

calendars lined up the City Council meets early this in September so you would have the first and the 15th being council meetings and then after that will be the economic development on the 21st I would recommend given that we're tabling this that we try to meet on the 14th at least that way you can have that that can go from You're not having to wait all the way to October. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, and I would have said the 7th. Unfortunately, that's Labor Day, so it makes that. You're still going to show us the three?

designed for all businesses of all types? Is it designed for high volume businesses? Can you clue me in a little bit?

Yeah, so it's actually that document that you have. It outlines all that the city of Keller could potentially incentivize based on strategic goals. So, you know, high sales tax producing, job generators, high-paying jobs, something that adds to the commercial viability. So this document, obviously, please take it home, look through it, and this is everything all-inclusive of what could be incentivized under this resolution. So for this one, I think we're familiar with the project already. Here are the two properties. And so this right here is the conceptual vision for the overall project. So we are talking tonight about an incentive for phase one. The earliest anticipated opening, which would be for 128 Bates Street, would be December of this year. Is that the Jackson Cottage? Yes. Yes, right here. So Jackson Cottage. And the applicant has requested a consideration for a Chapter 3 of the Economic Development Program Agreement for 136 Bates Street. They've requested a reimbursement for the installation of a commercial grease trap. And I'll give more details on that here at the next slide. And for 128 Bates Street, the construction of publicly accessible bathrooms. The improvements are intended to support the long-term redevelopment and activation of both properties and the revitalization of Kellers Festival Street, Bates Street. And this is, again, conceptual drawings.

Do we have any public restrooms on Bates Street right now?

Not at this time. We do have that scheduled as part of our CIP, five-year CIP, I think two years out. 2028. Yeah, for the KDC on that area. Okay.

Okay, so the first request is for a 500-gallon commercial grease trap. The applicant feels strongly that having a space with an already established grease trap will help attract stronger food and beverage prospects. The owner has asked for the Chapter 380 incentive to be structured similarly to the facade improvement grant, with Hyman Holdings funding the improvements up front. Reimbursement would be available only after an executed lease with a food or coffee tenant for 136 Bates Street. and the activation of pop-up programming at the Keller Depot. The requested incentive is for 19,500, and this is an estimate from the applicant's contractor. I can speak to this as business attraction being one of our key goals in economic development. A property that has a built-in grease trap is a gold mine. A lot of restaurant users That's a big deterrent if a space doesn't have that. So this is the applicant trying to get ahead of it to recruit potentially a better food and beverage user.

Not necessarily per se. Really, it just allows them to diversify their menu offerings for food specifically.

And lending to their longevity with that as well. Business being able to thrive through one year, three year, five year, ten year.

The second request is for the applicant to build and operate publicly accessible restrooms on the property at 128 Bates Street. The applicant anticipates weekend activity could extend to approximately 10 o'clock at night and include community gatherings, pop-up markets, and the potentially planned Phase 3 outdoor marketplace. The requested reimbursement is $42,240. This property has a confirmed tenant that will be announced soon, and they're aiming to open in early December. This is what the goal for the inside to look like.

How many restrooms does it currently have? Two.

Well, so they would be adding two if the incentive gets approved.

Yeah, but currently, the way the building is right now. Let me show you.

There's one inside.

One? Yeah, so there's. But these are going to be accessible from the outside? From the outside. So they don't have to go into the business.

Into the building. Right. Where would they be located on the property?

There should be a conceptual. It's going to be to the left of the cottage. Or actually on the right, I guess, from this view. Can I wear that?

Is it right over here, Ashley?

So it is. No, it'll be to the right of.

It's on the other property?

On the back side. Right here.

This corner right here, right? Okay.

The bathrooms are public access bathrooms? Yeah, they have the public access, yeah. during the hours of business operation?

So they'll be open. That's something we've discussed with the city where we would have a separate entrance where we could actually do early morning outside of the normal hours. One of our concerns is actually that exactly the coffee shop and the dessert shop is likely might have early closing hours. And so in our phase three, and as we activate having more things on the property in the backside, We want to be able to make sure that people still have access to restaurants because there's So you know what? As you say this, I will say that that's going to be revised because it does fit.

It looks like it would be over here. It is going to be over that way. It would be the actual property.

Yeah. So we didn't do site plan drawings for this yet, which I was going to discuss with my architect. So our designs were conceptual. One of the things that we were kind of holding off on doing was if this incentive for this budget gets approved, then our architect will be doing final site plan drives. And so in doing that, I see right on that line. It is right on the line if you put it on that right side. But we do have the space to put it on the left side in this instance because I'm looking at it. Obviously, it's two plus one.

Yeah, it'd be tough to put it there because it creates such a narrow alleyway.

Yeah, yeah. So initially, the thought was to do where... there would be potentially either one bathroom or two. But because it was the ADA and then doing those kind of family style type bathrooms, that's where we have the two conceptual. But yes, I mean, we have the space to put it off to the left. I think it would just have to be shipped to the left.

So actually, just to confirm, so it would be here and here? Or how would you?

So let me see.

This is the floor plan from the current building plan. Yes. So the back section is the add-on, right?

Yes. Yeah, the back section is the add-on. And so what they're saying is, I understand what you're saying, because I definitely see the concern there.

Yeah, because you don't want to put it over here when this is narrow. And that's just not going to be easy for people to go in back or to get by. It won't be as safe. The natural place was over the property line on the other property, just inside the entrance of the depots. facade there that you had, the little sign.

Can we get a clarification? First, are the bathrooms going to be a separate structure if the 380 is approved? Because I think we've kind of all got a different idea right now in our head. Separate structure or clearly added on to 128? Added on. Attached to.

Yes, attached. And so this is the front of the property right here. So then visitors would come through here, walk in between the two, and then access from back here, correct? Is that right, Ashley? Sorry. Oh, I was saying, so this is the front of the property, so then visitors would come between the two buildings, walk back here, and then access the restrooms?

No, so that's the addition. So that's the actual structure. So if you go, there's a slide that I gave you of a conceptual drawing, but either way,

No, keep going.

When you get that one building there. Keep going. There's an individual conceptual. Do you guys not have that in this?

It was on the other presentation.

No, it's one with the bathrooms. There should be one of the yellow cottage conceptual, but then also there's the actual what the bathrooms would be attached to the building. I see.

for phase three really for when it's your depot oh i'm sorry ashley i think i thought it was the same one as the other one yeah that's okay this is going to be for the public so some of the feedback that we've been getting from the buzz about the keller depot of these two properties and the vision that we have to activate well so this one is different because let's get that

and we can pull it up. No, that's different.

Pull it up while I'm saving it.

A lot of people are pulling that up. Just again, the public is basically, when we've talked about activating this street, starting to have events, they are asking, where are we going to go to battle them? And right now, there is nowhere for them to go. So we have this beautiful street that we need to activate as a city, and yet a simple...

The idea is fine. It's not

I understand what you're saying. Because even seeing this now, I mean, I was going to defer to my architect to do the site plan and designs. And in that instance, this would have come up. But in what you're looking at here, what he's saying is the property line is just to the right of that cottage. I want to say, I have to double check, but honestly, I think it's probably 5 to 10 feet. to the right. And that's conceptually where we were just doing a design to have the bathroom to the right. But it essentially would cross over the line onto 136 in that instance. So I understand what you're saying. So for that, I would have to redo my conceptual design. But should this get approved, our architect would be doing the final designs and probably make that recommendation as to where the best location would be on the right or left.

Yeah, so I think I might have to walk back to my earlier comments. We'll ask a question here to Anna and Melanie. We have the two facades that came in, and then we have this 380. And then we've got, on the 380, is the grease trap and the bathroom, are those both attached to the 128 address?

The bathroom is 128, and the grease trap is 128.

That's kind of what I was getting at, is that, is this the right way to bring this up to council? Is this thing structured the way that... Supposing we want to move this forward, is there a better umbrella approach for this whole project? Because really, we had it all up together when it's around $80,000 of incentives that the taxpayers of Keller would be essentially investing in this whole project. and the way that we're presenting it now, it's really kind of hard to get a vision for where that money's going and what good it could actually bring to the city. So that might be something we need to talk about, and I'll open that up to the board of how might we structure this differently.

I have a question. I still need to understand something, so please bear with me. So the dessert, which is the... Cottage currently has one bathroom that people that come in to shop and meet can use. Now, these two bathrooms basically will be on the outside and it will be available, you know, till late for the public. No matter what, they don't have to come to the dessert shop. They could be going to somewhere for a festival or things like that. They can use that. Okay, very good. That's good. Now, 136, is there a bathroom in that place? Yes. How many?

One.

One. One is my understanding. Okay. Okay. So that means also the potential that is a coffee shop, people coming in, if it's open till late, you know, someone is already in the bathroom, they're there for a longer time, they can also use this. Yes. Correct? Yes, correct. Okay. Thank you for answering.

So on the 380, is it being presented for 380 for 128 and 136?

Are there easements required in between property lines?

So in Old Town, for setbacks, we usually go with five feet on either side of the property line.

So they couldn't build it on there anyway? And there wouldn't be enough room anyway.

Yeah, no, on that, if we went on that left side, yeah, I see the distinct issue on the line there. So there's, we pretty much have one of two options. One, looking at the right side of the building if you're front facing and seeing the amount of space in between there. But the other option that we have is essentially to replat to be able to bring that line over.

Well, and if you put it on that side, I mean, you're going to be, that says it's 12 feet, 13 feet. I can't read. Is it 17 feet? Right there.

I can't even see it.

It's fuzzy. I think it's 12. So your bathrooms are going to be 5 to 6 feet wide each. You're going to have about 12 feet and then easement. I don't know that there's enough room to put bathrooms on that building, period, without

And also the cleaning and the constant daily cleaning and safety, what is the plan for that? The operational maintenance of those two bathrooms?

Yeah, so we did have a plan to take care of that as a not to put that onto the city. That was something we were going to absorb because we just felt like the need was that necessary. We did get expressed interest as well, or disinterest, I don't know what the right word is, but where there was concerns from tenants that being Festival Street, as much as that's exciting on one hand, it becomes the secondary question of, do I have to open my bathroom to the public? And asking questions about what that looks like. And so this is kind of the direction we tried to resolve a problem for more so the street than anything in hopes that there would be more opportunities for public restroom.

So this was our attempt to- Would you charge your tenants like cam charges to take care of the restrooms?

Yeah, there will be cam charges, yeah. And like I said, the overall long term vision, I don't know, Anna, if you have a picture of phase three? Yep, so phase three, just to kind of give perspective. This is where the Keller Depot concept kind of came into play of there just being a way for us to maximize this property in more ways of experiential. So the backyard is phase three. And so we anticipate, we're still in talks kind of with the city about what approach we'll do with these micro units, but there's a potential of doing these kind of micro footprints to kind of incubate these smaller footprint businesses that aren't ready for larger brick and mortar. And so these are about 100 square feet units.

She sheds or something?

Yes, that kind of concept. And so even the public bathrooms being so close by, we intend to have our property be an additional public space on So even when festivals aren't happening, we will be doing activations. We're actually starting our activations at the fourth Friday of every month starting in September. We're doing National Night Out in October. And that's going to be ways that we're going to continue to drum up activity in the Old Town area and on Bates. And so that backyard is kind of a vision to the long-term concept, which we would have completed in the next year. And we anticipate that that will also stay open potentially for later hours, like that 10 p.m. kind of concept. Like the coffee shop might be closing at like 8 p.m. or the dessert shop. And we can do live music in the back and be able to have that experience for like that part.

And the two backyards will share though. It'll be kind of like one open space. The idea is nice. I mean, it's pretty. Can I ask, would we expect to see a request

No, this was just, to be honest, just so you kind of understand the process that I've kind of been doing actively has been having the conversations with the city. I did also sit with the mayor to have different discussions about Bates and what the vision is for the city overall. These, I'm kind of going into the recommendations that I'm being told as far as the paths that might be available to kind of help us develop this project in its entirety, but then what additional things we can provide to the community that might be of benefit. The public bathrooms, I can tell you, and if I want to be very transparent, I resigned from my position i believe in this this much that i do believe that public restrooms are a dire need on base um in general for any type of activations whether we're getting it and that's a good idea and i'm behind that part of it i think that's good of you to think about doing too i do so so i'm like i said i'm just kind of going forward in the path that i was you know recommended to take um and so you know that's what we're trying to present to you And just so you also know, the entire investment that we have in this property is just shy of a million dollars between the purchase of the property and the development of the property. So we're making a substantial investment overall in comparison to what we're asking for.

$600,000 to $800,000 in revenue, probably maximum, based on the rents, okay, if you do a factor of that. The bathrooms is a city, you know, that's a city, you know, for the general good. I have a real different feeling about that than I do maybe some of the other things, so...

Well, I will say this, too, if I may speak. The community kind of spoke up about what they were looking for to see in the city of Keller. And the city of Keller also doesn't want to lose its small charm. So somewhere in the middle of making more money and then yet staying true to the city that we are and the city that we want to continue to be, that is our sweet spot, right? So we are coming to the table with a very difficult proposal in some ways because we're kind of in the middle of that. But the city of Keller, we're needing your guys' support to have that be a reality. You know, we will generate revenue, and we will also create a buzz that will have an impact for years to come. And this just has to be packaged appropriately for people to understand the impact today and tomorrow. We want to help in doing that.

Where I think our board is going to kind of struggle here, and we're kind of struggling with it together. We're working with you and trying to understand if this moves forward to city council, what's the best format? Because And then we got to this 380, and we really didn't get to see the full vision of what this is. Is there anything that would keep the money that's participated in a broader 380 that kind of covers everything. I'm not sure structurally or legally if these need to be broken up in the way that they are or if it would be better to present the whole picture to the council just to try to understand what's going on here. So that's one part of it. The other part, we've already talked about Ashley and the former board. She's covered that so she'll have to The project itself has a lot of merit, but then how do we get it structured? All the design's got to be tightened up.

Yeah, and then what I'm showing you here with the estimated investment, that's not including the purchase of the property. So as Ashley mentioned, the full in is about a million dollars. So this is just what they are investing for phase one, and then all phases that estimate is 250K, it could go up.

In their condition and given what we have to do, yes. Yes. They were very, very.

So on the stuff I saw, look.

Going back to the first bill where we're putting in the grease trap, which I agree with, that makes it a lot more attractive for any restaurant business or food-making company you want to do, do you have somebody that's already signed an LOI for you that would need it?

So like I said, we're in negotiations and kind of navigating what the offerings are that each potential person that we might consider. I will say the consensus across the board is... wanting to diversify the food menu. And so this is a big one that when I told each person what we are going to potentially try to pursue is having a grease trap added, I mean, the excitement was real and was there.

I mean, I'm for the grease trap because being in restaurants my whole life, I understand the need for it and how important it is. My only concern is... the city kicks in the 50, 49 grand, whatever it is, get the grease trap in, and then businesses that come to you don't need it because now the way food preparation works, like Starbucks does, they have these turtle chef ovens where they don't need a grease trap. So I guess my concern is, and you still get pretty good food coming out of them, and same with these, everything on them, and you don't need a grease trap. My concern is, given the okay for a grease trap, and what we have for us as a city is we put it in, but then all of a sudden, you get all your tents put in, and none of them need a grease trap.

I'd still look at the grease trap as a developer.

I just wish we had, honestly, more owners that would be forward-thinking like that and not look at what they're bringing in right this second, but what can they bring in in the future? Because how many times have we had businesses go out? Again, I'm fully grease-trapped.

No, no, no. Not against it, I'm just saying.

I will say the conversations that we're having and the strongest ones that we're leaning towards, absolutely, I know it would be a definite benefit for either that we're considering. So I do believe that they will be utilized, and that's why I wanted to .

I just ask that because I mean, I think it's a good draw, but I mean, with all the stuff that I've been in with companies that work in the community, it's graceless friars. It's everything, everyone's getting away just because it's easier. It's easier to get health permits. It's easier to do all the other stuff. So I'm not opposed to it.

I'm just saying. Your concern is if we put all of this in, do we have a guarantee that we'll get a tenant that will need that?

Yes, yes and no. I'm not in a way. I still think having a grease trap, let's say she has a tent that says, no, this is not for me. I'm going to move out. who's ready to go, who's got a great menu, and he needs to be strapped. I think long-term thinking, like we just talked about, is a great idea. I want to make sure that the tenants understand that you're coming to cost something that normally a new tenant would have to do themselves.

Well, you know, I did research that, and I think this is like We're a little bit trailblazing on this project, right? So I've actually talked to various brokers about what's common. Does a landlord typically provide that? Should I maybe suggest to my future tenant, hey, this is an available path to talk to the city? So on and so forth. And I think on one hand, because this is an incentive program, one, I was told that it's not common for a landlord to provide it. Or no, I'm sorry. It's common for a landlord to provide it, not common to ask the tenant. So in 90% probably of, and I don't, Stacy's not in here, but that's kind of the, because I thought as we're doing these renovations, do I have to put this grease trap if I want a coffee tenant? And I know we want a coffee tenant. And so I was navigating that or to see if that person maybe absorbs that in their own build out cause. And so the recommendation for most people that I spoke to in commercial real estate was that most often than not, it is the landlord that does that typically to incentivize the type of tenant that they want. And so being this being an incentive program, that's essentially why we thought it might be a better fit for us to be applying as opposed to a tenant applying because the other nuance to the incentive program is we want to attract the right businesses And if they're already signed on a lease, and when they're coming in and asking for it, it's harder to navigate.

Again, these are businesses that want to grow and stay. That's one of the challenges that Keller's had. So these tenants have discussed wanting to have options down the road.

the first two items until the new meeting, which we're going to try for the 14th. And so this would also go through there. Do we want to give them a list of recommendations of if we thought about what we need to see on the meeting for the 14th to make this more clear and so that we could have something that would have a chance of moving forward?

I think the bathrooms need to be clearly laid out where they're going to go. Yes. Definitely need to see.

should be under the umbrella of a . And then also on the business side, we'll have a little bit of time between now and then if there's anything that can support that revenue side, the LOIs, and just a little bit more about your vision for the tenants. And as that picture becomes more clear, maybe more information will come in between now and the next meeting.

And you think I agree with Nate that there needs to be an introduction of the whole concept? when they're presenting this and then do the grants and then do the, but I think it needs to start with a concept so that, because we struggled with it. We struggled with it, yeah. To city council and they don't know about, yeah, just a general overview of where this is going.

And that will save you a lot of questions also from them, you know.

Okay, I'll make a motion to proceed with those items for the next meeting.

We only pass this around to y'all.

So now we'll move into economic development updates.

OK, so I'm going to give a very quick. Oh, sorry. It's your turn. I'm sorry, Nate.

So we're going to move into administrative comments. We're going to receive an economic development update.

All right.

Good job.

So for the month of July, we had eight new business COs. Those were Michael D.A. Reinhart, State Farm Insurance Asian at 310 North Main Street, Suite F. Professional Home Kitchens, Inc. at 1075 Chippewa Trail. Worth It Pilates at 790 South Main Street, Suite 417, opening this weekend on the 23rd. Panther City Plumbing at 120 North Main Street, and it's their main office. Brain Body Welds at 1670 Keller Parkway, Suite 170. Top Turf at 714 Katy Road. Degree Wellness at 242 Roof Snow Drive, Suite 140. That's also opening this weekend. And then AutoZone at 2131 Roof Snow Drive. So far we've had 65 COs that have been issued through the end of July with 41 new businesses and seven of those are restaurants. Some building permits currently under review or in process. Pilates Addiction at 121 Roostow Drive, Suite 117 is under review. That's here at Town Center. Tech Flex Offices, Building 1 and 2 at 2000 Whitley Road. That is a shell building on commercial zoning with tenants to be determined. Umzi Vine & Vibe at 444 Keller Parkway. That is in the former Manny G's and it is a South African wine bar slash restaurant. The permit was issued on the 16th. Orb Inspire Games at 800 South Main Street, Suite 240. Their permit was issued on the 22nd. Pickleman's is aiming for an October-November opening. Where is Pickleman's? It's the former Tropical Smoothie. I did not put the address on here.

They're out of Stillwater and they're phenomenal. It's really close to Natural Grocers. It's really good.

And then First Watch and Macalester's basically across, almost across the street from here. So First Watch is aiming for a November opening and that's a new build so is Macalester's. Macalester's is still under plan review so we will let you know as soon as we know when they're going to be opening. And then for those of you that are familiar with the Samantha Springs project, where the former Shannon Brewery used to be, they have submitted a plan development. So that should be coming before council in the next couple of months.

How many of the new places are gonna probably come to us and want a facade grant?

Of these, as far as facade, How many funds are available?

How many of them actually know there are funds available for it?

Are any of them even in Old Town Keller?

So the Facade Improvement Grant, it's citywide.

It is, but have we approved any outside of Old Town Keller? I thought it was Old Town Keller.

It changed in the last few years. So something to keep in mind, again, Steve, to answer your question is that I know in talking with Mayor McMullen and kind of the vision for the grant program and the incentive agreement is really going towards more like the holistic incentive application. So I don't think we're going to be seeing more other than Ashley's properties. I don't foresee us looking or bringing you any other facade improvement grants until we've established a new process.

Is there a thing when we do facade grants or anything in the bylaws that say that one person can only apply one time?

There is a minimum amount of time before they can come back. And we've had someone...

I think it's related to the property. So no more than one grant in 12 months per individual lot. I think it's how the policy technically reads.

Which we had one like that last year where the property had a grant

$20,000 and really deem it's really $15,000, then $3,500 or $3,700 grant is the maximum. So that we don't give $10,000 grants out for $22,000 projects that exhaust our funding quickly. Initially, phase one was $125,000, $80,000 from the city. It's a big portion of that. And that's why I was like, if you get the revenue back on an $800,000 a year maximum revenue stream is tough.

That's why it just stood out to me. I was like, ooh. Ten year payback.

Well, and I think that's part of where Mayor McMullen was coming from and kind of the conversations we've had about the what is the goal with the 380s and the economic development and where is that line of are we spending a lot of time and effort to hand out a little bit versus I think the conversation here with Ashley's project is a good example of this. Here's this total project concept that we should really be looking at and what does that incentive look like over the idea of let's get into the nitty gritty of paint and everything. And I think what we find is we spend a lot of time as much time on these smaller incentives than a more holistic view of, is this a project we want to fund? If so, how can we intervene within the concepts of the state law on a 380 and develop policies that give you as a board, us as staff, and council some flexibility to say, here's what we'd like to do holistically. Okay, what are you trying to do to that project? Do we think that is a good use

If we're going to give 80 grand, what is our ROI on it? Correct. When we develop one, we develop the old. I get it. The whole concept, like we said, she should have started with that first and said that would have taken a lot of the confusion out of it. It took us a while.

And that's probably more my fault than it is. We put together the agenda because we didn't

Yeah, and the restructuring will really help with... Yeah, and I think... This is unique.

What he's talking about is, you know, what's the sweet place going to generate? Have you figured out, what, $350 a year?

Yeah, if you do a 10% rent factor, which these normally have higher rent factors, which would lower the revenue number, you're looking at $800,000 to $810,000. a huge number for the amount of money being asked.

Sure. And you know, this is what's so great about having y'all serving on this board and this feedback, because to a point, We ask for as much as we can get to bring to you. So it's really important that you're asking these types of questions and giving guidance to applicants because then they can come back with more of that.

I mean, no doubt in my mind, it really helped Bates Street get us to what we want to do in that area. grease traps but my point is so many businesses are getting away from doing it because it's a pain in the ass it's an absolute pain in the ass to deal with grease traps and that's why you're seeing greaseless fryers you're seeing turtle chef ovens that cook at high temp with

So part of the, I don't think we spent too much time on that slide, but I'll make sure and bring it back up the next time. So there would be terms which need to be mutually agreed upon where if she sells it, the idea is that the contract would be good for 10 years for the Keller Depot to operate those bathrooms. And then at the 10 years, you look to extend it or kind of reassess. Well, if she sells it to somebody else and they don't take over the operation and upkeep, then there would be a reimbursement back to us for the percentage of the time that they didn't meet out of the 10 years. So if we gave them a reimbursement of the $40,000 and some change for the bathrooms and they only operated for eight years, we would do a percentage of like, okay, you need to reimburse it then for the amount that you didn't need.

Because let's understand, it's great to have public bathrooms right there. It can help. How will it be designated and how will people know? But let's not make any mistake. One of the other primary factors of this is once the depot, if it gets the full conceptual ideas, you know,

Yeah, so this would all be outlined in the agreement to make sure that it's definitely also to the benefit of the city.

I think she said 8 to 10. Isn't that what she said?

She said 8 to 10. It would be close for if there's maintenance or maybe, you know, there's a lot that we would have to outline in an agreement before entering into that and looking at it on all the legal terms possible.

face value, but once the depot gets realized, it's 50 or 75 or 100 people a day. That's the question.

Well, this just goes to what Aaron brought up.

I don't think your outdoor markets have to have a public restroom. It's an outdoor market.

whole type of a thing is this even something that we want to venture into is it is a city and to manage and you know five ten years from now it'll be a different group of people than this will be a different group in the city and you know all this terms in terms of the program I think that changing the incentive and how we get there I think he is I believe he's in favor of this development now whether it's incentivized or not I don't want to I mean, it's like this complication of we have a private-owned structure with now we're putting something on there, and there's this kind of unusual condition that we're asking for city funds to do this improvement to our property, and the deal sweetener is, well, the public can use it. And it's like, well,

upkeep. She had a custodial person on site from age 10. Two inspections a day and one cleaning today.

So if there was a public park nearby, you know, a question for parks and rec, do you put an actual public bathroom on an actual piece of public property?

So I think also the public park is across the street and that's why Aaron mentioned in

change those projects can move around depending on you know council discretion what we spend less money than California's doing for a bus stop I mean that's more than our parks are cleaned would you sorry remind me how much are we requesting up front versus how much are we

Okay, because that's the other is, you know, again, if this is of an appeal to you and something that you're interested in, the other option you can look at is tailoring the funding so that part of it is a payout based on performance and then annual commitment so that if for some reason sells in three years, we're not upholding the... Well, that's what I thought for three years. That's a good approach.

Yeah, that's a good approach.

in trouble because we've moved on from this agenda item, and we've revisited it. The applicant's not here, so... Because sometimes that also tests... I enjoy the conversation. I'm just not sure procedurally if we can... So I make a motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Thank you.

Thank you.