Planning - Regular Meeting

Roll call, please. Gilmore.

Here. Miles. Here. Miller. Here. Bailey. Here. Ebbels. Here. I need a motion and a second to approve the minutes from August the 11th.

So moved. Second.

Thank you very much. First of all, I'd like to apologize for missing the last meeting. We did not have a quorum, but we do today. So I'm going to start out with Walter Jackson. Come on up. Tell us your name and what you want to do.

Walter Jackson, and I'm wanting to do a duplex at 323 North Bridge. There's an old house there that I've owned for several years that we want to tear down, and I own a lot of other duplexes and triplexes in the neighborhood in that three-block area, and the lot's over there. It's an old part of town, so the lots are all 50-foot wide, so it doesn't really allow for... parking in the rear or driveways to get to the rear to be able to use the lot. I own the apartments to the south of it and to the north of it there's Jonesboro Housing Authority owns a couple little houses there.

Let me throw something out. Have you thought about building a single family home?

Yeah, I mean, you could. It's zoned for multi.

You might not have these troubles.

Yeah, it's zoned for multifamily, and it's 204 foot deep. Yeah. The duplex is not going to take up that much.

Do you know how that ordinance came about? Uh-huh. Yes, sir. You've been down Matthews and saw those. Yes, sir. What we call spaceships. Yeah, they're all vital siding. That's why we were trying to avoid in Jonesboro. Those are all vital siding and low-pitched roofs and hip roofs all around them. And there's no door on the front or all the above.

Mine are all blank. That's why.

That's why we're here.

Mine are all brick with the steeper roofs and gables and stuff. They're nicer looking.

OK. All right. So gentlemen, do you have any questions for this man? Oops. There it went. OK. We're having IT problems. Does everybody understand what Mr. Walter Jackson is asking? Mr. Jackson, how- Members showed up today, didn't we?

Go ahead. How are your other duplexes? Are they forward-facing doors, street-facing doors?

No, sir. They're all built the same way. It's kind of like, if you got two lots, you have two facing each other with the sidewalk up the middle.

Yes.

Yeah. Well, that's, if you went south a little bit, you could see those triplexes there. That's a whole different thing, though, because it's got the big parking lot in the front. The 323 Bridge would just have a parking for four cars in the front. If you go north the next block up on Bridge, you can see two duplexes there on the east side of the street that are mine. That's how those were built, were two facing each other. And then the same thing over on Miller and over on Drake also.

I'll go up here. Mr. Jackson, what's the reasoning for no front doors?

It would just be, if it's a duplex, you can't have two units. You can't have the doors on a front on a 50-foot wide lot because the building is only going to be 32-foot wide. It'd be like two long, skinny mobile homes side by side or something, like shotgun style or something. to have the doors on the front. And then you couldn't have parking on the side or the rear, unless you have a driveway right up against the structure.

Is it okay if I ask, are those yours at 408 North Bridge and 410 North Bridge?

Yes sir, yes sir. and you can see how nice the yard is kept up, all the grass is cut, compared to the rest of the neighborhood.

Can you zoom that back out to get his property on it? Oh, yeah, okay. So Darrell, if we grant this variance, are they,

They'd still have to meet all the other different requirements of building the duplex.

They just wouldn't have to put the door in the face of the street.

And they'd put the parking in the front where it's not allowed. He's asking for two, for no door in the front and no parking in the front. Which way are you facing the front?

The front would be facing south toward the other apartments, my other apartments there at 321 Bridge. And there'll be a sidewalk. The sidewalk will come from the parking up beside the property line where the fence is there to access the doors.

It'll meet all the other setbacks?

It'll sit in the setbacks and everything, yes.

essentially it's going to mirror just 321, 319, all those. Is that correct? Is it just kind of mirror what you're asking for? It's very similar to 321 or 319?

It is. It's the same building except the 321, 319. Those are all three units per building, and I'm just asking for a duplex for that. Right, no, I got you. But yes, it's the same layout, the same square footage per unit.

Is that like a cross-access building? There's a spot right there on the one below it. Dumpster, is that a dumpster thing? It is a dumpster, okay. There won't be no requirement on that.

Mr. Jackson, when did you build? How old are the 317, 319, and then further north, the other projects were?

The three. The 408. 17, 19, and 21. Those three were built in, I think, 2016, 2017. I think it was 2016. And then the other ones were up the street were built in 2014. And then I've, well, it's the next street over. I've got some that I built in 15 or 16, the next street over. And then over on Drake, one street to the west. I'm sorry, Miller. I'm sorry, one street to the west, Miller. I built those in 2020. That 509 Miller, I built that in 2020.

somewhere in that range.

We did a variance to build the 509 Miller.

Oh, you did do a variance then?

Yes, we went through the same process to build that one in 2020.

What's the feeling of the city on the parking in the rear?

We've really tried to encourage it since we've adopted that new ordinance. I mean, there are cases that make it very hard to do. That's the reason they're here is because if it was easy, we'd already be under construction.

Mr. Chair, I move that we place the variance for the side-facing doors and the front parking variance on the floor for a vote.

Second. Second. All right. Roll call, please.

Miles? No. Miller? Yes. Bailey?

Yes.

. Yes.

OK.

Thank you.

I didn't count. You didn't get to hear that? They voted three votes in the affirmative, so you can build it like it is. OK. All right, Moss Fencing. Yellow, Mr. Moss. Lisa Martis here. He's the homeowner, or the business owner, building owner. Do we skip this one? Just give it to the end. We're going to move that to the end and move on. All right. GBC design for the Chick-fil-A. Who's here to represent that?

Before we start, I'm going to recuse myself on this one. OK.

Thank you, ma'am.

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

I've got Alan with the Civil Engineer Company that designs civil, does all the civil for Chick-fil-A all over the Atlantic region. He does lots of them. And then I also have Brent Eppenson.

Where'd Brent go? He went to go get a drink.

OK, he'll be back in just a minute. He is with Chick-fil-A. And they'd like to do a presentation for you. And then before that gets started, I want to hand you out an email from George from Tommy's. Not wanting the side connection, because in Tommy's, when you go in, there's three lanes that's enter only, one way. So if you do do the side connection, Chick-fil-A's two lanes coming out, you'd have a head on wreck. But I'll let him explain that and show you the site plan.

Hey, tell us who you is and what you want to do. Hey, good afternoon. My name's Brent Edmiston. Had the pleasure to serve as development lead for the Atlantic region. Appreciate your time today. Sorry I had to step out and get some water, so I wouldn't. Lose my voice. Carol, thank you. Appreciate the board this afternoon for hearing our file today. First and foremost, Chick-fil-A is excited about another restore opportunity in the city of Jonesboro. We've been working hard with our team the last several months to develop a site plan that we feel like long-term will best serve customers in the Jonesboro market. We're proposing our latest prototype, which is called the P-15, which focuses on having what we reference as an isolated drive-thru. And what that means is we try to separate our drive-thru traffic from our dine-in traffic or customers. And so the isolated drive-through means we've designed a site plan for the drive-through to be on the perimeter of the site. And so the customers that are gonna dine-in do not have to cross drive-through traffic to enter our restaurant. So that's what we mean when we reference what we call an isolated drive-through. We are proposing two entrances and one exit, and we strongly believe that the site plan that we're proposing provides the best layout and traffic flow for long-term for customers, for our team members in this market. Also, I can speak to a little bit more about what we're doing with this site is we're trying to provide one-way traffic flow, which we find is more efficient. And we're also providing a queue on this site that's 60% higher than our minimum standards. minimum standards here, we exceeded more than 60%. And we're able to contain and keep that cue within our property limits. Very confident in that and what we're proposing today. So with that, I'll hand this off to Mr. Allen Wiley with GBC to be able to speak to our hardships and more specific to the ask of the board here today. Thank you.

Afternoon, Alan Wiley with GBC, the project engineer for this Chick-fil-A. I've worked on Chick-fil-A projects for 18 years now in 20 different states. This is a very large site from what they typically build on, being 1.8 acres. We are asking for three variances. The first one being to not do the cross-access connection between the Chick-fil-A and the Tommy's Car Wash. We have our Chick-fil-A drive-thru exit there, and it is coming south, just a plan south. Can someone show the site plan up there, please? And then the Tommy's Car Wash is directly planned west of our exit, and that is going in. The only thing you can do once you enter that is to go get your car washed. The only people that would be utilizing that entrance is to go get your car washed. There's no one that's going to enter there and then make a U-turn just to leave the Chick-fil-A exit. So we're asking for a variance for that. our exit there and there's some grading issues as well. The requirement for curb cut to be a minimum of 85 feet from the intersection. We have ours closer than that. The reason we have our curb cut showing where it's at is it provides a straight access point directly into the drive-through entrance. This is an old site plan. We submitted a newer one that has that site, entrance there is entrance only the one that's up there is an entrance and exit but we did revise that based on conversations with the city to be an entrance only so all the cars are going to come down southern ridge boulevard make a make a right right into the site and they will go right up to the drive-through entrance there's should be no slowing down. Once you get onto the site to have to navigate the property, to try to figure out where the drive-through is, it's straight ahead of you. And also you're going to go straight into the site before you make a left to go into the parking. So you're not even turning off the street and then having to make a decision right away. Your decision point is 125 feet. Once you get onto the property. we feel that will be extremely efficient in keeping cars off of Southern Ridge Boulevard off of Southern Creek lane. Uh, the other variants that we're asking for is, um, there is a part of the code that does not allow for three entrances onto the property. We have two entrances and one exits. We have three access points, but two entrances and one exit. The reason, we have those as again the efficiency keeping the drive-through separate from having to re-enter the folks that are parking there to go into dine-in we also have a large amount of topography on the site from plan north east to plan southwest there's about 11 feet of fall and it's a hardship trying to get that to work with the chick-fil-a grading requirements that we have to meet in order to meet their prototypical demands for how a site is developed. So happy to answer any other questions you might have.

Thank you. Any questions from the board?

I do for the city. Darryl, when Chick-fil-A made initial contact with the city, was it after they had already purchased the lot or before they had purchased the lot?

DAVID BURRAGE. Evan, they've made contact with us, it's probably been a year. I don't know what the status of the lot was at that time, whether it was owned by the development company or Chick-fil-A.

I guess I'm leading into, the code of ordinances was in place as far as cross-access and driveway entrances and exits. I have a real hard time of, I respectfully understand the hardship but I'm having a hard time with three different variances. I'm having a hard time with the three drives onto Southern Creek, and while I respect George's letter on the cross access, the cross access management We have it for a reason. And if I'm not mistaken, Tommy's turn back to the property line is in place on their property, is it not? It is?

It is on the plat that George gave us.

It is in place in the field, if I can answer that. The only people that would utilize that cross-access would be people leaving the Chick-fil-A entrance to go get their car washed. Chick-fil-A is not gonna connect their drive-through exit to their parking lot and make that two-way. That will cause a lot of congestion at their drive-through exit, slow efficiency, and cause other issues upstream in the drive-through.

Kevin, the way I see this and this development, these smaller streets running through this development, it basically is a cross-access in my opinion. Unlike the one on Caraway where you would have to go into Caraway traffic.

We're staying on Southwest Drive.

You're keeping people off Southwest Drive. And you're putting them on smaller streets, less traffic. And it makes, in this case, the cross-access makes a lot more sense to me not dumping any

you know, Chick-fil-A traffic onto Tommy's oncoming people going to that car wash. And if you look at the street classification map, sorry, Southern Creek Lane is listed as a local street.

do you happen to know the grade of that access management that drive that stops at the property line for Tommy's?

Do you know that grade?

How top your head?

I can, I think yours reads four or five or from, from our site to their site.

Yeah. You mentioned something about the topo being a little bit different.

Yeah. By the time that we get done with our grading of where we need to be for Chick-fil-A for their finished floor. And that area is unfortunately tied to our finished floor. It'll probably be three, three to three and a half feet of grade change from our drive through to where they're at. We have to keep it pretty level with that building. And then we're going to dive down to Southern Creek lane.

It'd be a retaining wall between Chick-fil-A and Tommy's.

Not if we don't have that connection, sir. We'll be able to make the grade up in their landscaping. However, if we do have to connect, there's a chance we may have to go on to Tommy's property, remove some of that, and rebuild it if we have to make that connection.

does seem like the access management will work better if this thing was flip-flopped you know the building was more towards southern ridge and that becomes a whole nother concern because of that grading yeah that's what i was there looking at it yeah you know for the access management to work out properly i think the way city intends for it to not not really tying in an exit but I am like Kevin. I think it's there for a reason, and I think it's a good thing, but I do understand Southern Creek is also, we're already pulling people off the main intercourse coming in, so I don't know.

Any other questions?

Carol, I guess the city is okay with this. I don't know any other way to make it work. Looking at the plan, I don't see where you have any other way.

It's a very efficient, very safe layout that we have provided.

I might have missed one. What was the third variance? Got three driveways, access management.

And the drive too close to the southern ridge.

Right. At that entrance right there. Okay.

and we did talk with them in a couple of weeks about that and me and Craig, and we did suggest that that be converted into just one way, not a in and out, and so it's an entrance only there, so. And you're agreeable that we were, we felt better, we felt better with it like that than if it was entrance and exit, so.

Yeah, we sent the revised plan to the city. and having it be in that straight shot into the drive-through and not having to make decisions while you're driving once you get onto the site. It's just going to make everything move a lot smoother off of the public streets.

Ricky, got any questions?

Nope.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion we put the variance on the board for a vote.

Second. Second.

Roll call.

Wise. Epstein.

He's recused himself. Bailey.

So we're voting on all three different variances at one time?

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Capitals. Yes. Yes.

OK. Thank you. Proceed. Thank you very much. Thank you.

All right, McAllister Engineering. Hey. Hey.

Megan McAllister with McAllister Engineering on behalf of our clients Mabry Properties and Holdings. We are seeking a variance on the east side setback line from seven and a half feet to six feet. The hardship necessitating this is They are making improvements to this existing duplex there. And when it was originally built, it was built 1.18 feet over that. That northeast corner of the building was built 1.18 feet over the east side setback. So we are requesting that side setback line be.

And that's all you're requesting for this project, right?

Sorry, y'all are renovating and updating the property?

Yes, making improvements to it.

Mr. Chair, I don't think we want to make them tear down the duplex. I'll move that we grant this site bag variance.

I second it. All right, roll call.

Miles? Yes. Miller? Yes. Bailey? Yes. Yes. Thank you, Ms. McAllister.

We appreciate it. Thank you.

All right. Crafton Hall or Carol Caldwell?

You have the grocery store side plan you can pull up.

I got to repeat myself again on this one. I understand.

Was that a yes or no, Doug?

You have the flat plan. It's floating. It's very slow today. Very slow today.

OK, the hardship is simply this. This grocery store is going to have 18 wheelers in and out all day long, five, six days a week. So the interest we don't want to share with the joining property owners, because one of the property owners is here to the left. We just don't want to do that to them. I mean, let me ask you a question, Doug. If there was a grocery store that went in next door to Gilmore Custom Kitchen and there was 18 wheelers going in and out of your driveway every day all day long, would you like it? Well, that's the circumstance that we're going to have if we have to share the entrance. It's the 18 wheelers. It's not the other traffic or cars. And we're hooking onto the side. You can see that. But the 18 wheelers can't go through the side to get out on someone else's lot. So... The 18 withers come in on the right side, circle around back, back into the back, and their only way out is back to the left. And I just think it's an injustice to the property owner to the left that they're not exactly sure what they're gonna build there yet, but I don't think they're gonna want 18 withers in there. And I don't own that lot anymore.

But these curb cuts shown, You probably couldn't make that turn with an 18-wheeler.

You mean that one?

Yeah, I'm talking about the one that's up there.

About the entrance?

The side. Yeah, correct. Where you have the side turnouts.

Correct. An 18-wheeler could not go through their parking lot that way. Cars can, but an 18-wheeler can't. So it's all about the 18-wheelers. Also, I don't own the lot anymore to the left. I don't think... You can make them do that. And an 18 wither certainly can't operate off of a half of an entrance. So that's another hardship. So we're asking for you to waive that strictly for that one reason. It's a hardship, creating a hardship on other people's property and on the other lot that I still own. Any questions?

Carol, don't let me get confused, but you're not asking for a cross-access variance, you're asking for a driveway location variance.

Entrance only. Entrance only. Okay.

Daryl, please tell us what,

When this was planted, some of these lots, to reduce the amount of curb cuts onto the main street, they're required to have share entrances. And this is one of those where they needed to share an entrance. If you do allow it, then I don't know what happens. I guess that would be upstream of this one. But, you know, because you're going to have the property that develops to the west. Was that west or east? To the west. I don't know where their driveways are going to be. So you possibly could get driveways too close together. That's what we're trying to keep from happening. But they are up. allowing for cross access, but I just don't know where that next drive will be on the property to the west. Make sure we have the right. No, but just to make sure we have the right spacing and everything along, because Southern Ridge is a collector street, so we.

That's my point earlier that to get from this parking lot to the one next door would be extremely easy without a cross-access just because of the lack of heavy traffic on Southern Ridge.

Southern is the heavy traffic one.

Southern Ridge is the collector. It's got the heavier traffic. The other one didn't. It was only a minor strip.

Right. But this is, Southern Ridge is going the complete length of the development, right?

It's going from Southwest Drive to Cobra House. Yeah.

Right.

Mr. Carroll, or let me, Let me ask you on the property that's adjoining it, that who knows what it is or what it's going to be. It might have been sold. It might not have been sold. When they develop, if this play out is blessed and we grant this variance, can they absolutely can leave their property, come on to your property, and use your drive if they want to? Yes, they can if they want to. And so quasi can share that drive.

Yes.

Even though the drive is not on the property line.

Correct. If they want to, they can.

Is that a good question? Does that make sense? Yeah. Because who knows what that next development is going to be over there.

Well, kind of adding that, like you said, we don't know who's going to go to the west or wherever, but would that limit or hinder them from putting a driveway in where they might want it? because of granting this variance?

That's to Daryl's point, I think.

Is it not? That's what we don't know yet.

The lot's wide enough that that won't make any difference. I can still put theirs pretty much where they want to. You know, it just depends on what's gonna go in there. You know, that's when y'all are gonna get to look at it. If it's a QSR or fast food, you know, it's gonna be totally different than what we're talking about right now. You know, so it just depends on what goes in there. But they can put anything in there they want to. And they can hook on to us if y'all require that. You know, the code requires that. And yes, they can on either side.

Just asking for all intent purposes, the drive that's on this plan to the left, which is east, or is it west? But anyway, could that drive be wider and quasi-shifted closer to the property line so it could be close to being a shared drive?

you're supposed to be a certain distance from property lines, and that's the reason it's where it's at. You know, if it goes there, then that being a collector, I'm trying to think of what that distance is between the next drive. But if, Carol, do you know how much frontage they're going to have on the next one?

To the east or west?

To the west.

No, I don't have that. How wide that lot will be? How wide that lot is.

I guess I'm just trying to.

It's supposed to be on the property line, right?

Yeah, could that be to the west? And so it could be a quasi already set up for shared access for the future sale of whatever that property is to the west. Leaving the drive on the east side with the trucks turning and leaving it alone, you turn in there and you come around. And I guess it, well, that makes it a hard decision. It makes it a hard access because the trucks are coming out and the traffic would be having to cross the truck lane to get onto it. Never mind. Sorry. I'm just trying not to, we don't want to do a bad thing for the next piece of property.

That's my biggest concern. Neither do I. Yeah. That's why we don't want to hook onto them now because the 18 withers be doing them injustice. Yeah.

280 approximately 280 linear feet there should be plenty of room for a for a drive on that next next lot then 310 I'll be crossed

Mr. Chair, I move that we grant the variance for the driveway.

OK, is there a second? Second.

OK, roll call, please. . Yes.

Yes.

Miles? Yes. Gilmore?

Thank you very much.

I need a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

DAVID BURRAGE- Chairman, before we do, we need to take up moss fencing. DAVID BURRAGE- Moss fencing. DAVID BURRAGE- Oh, is he here?

No.

DAVID BURRAGE- OK, do we want to go without him? Not with me.

I would like to make the recommendation that we table it.

DAVID BURRAGE- All right. Is there a second for that? Thank you. I don't need to vote, do we? Do we need to vote for table?

No.

DAVID BURRAGE- No. Good. Somebody said no. Darrell said no. OK, we'll table it till next time.

Motion we adjourn. DAVID BURRAGE- There it is.

Second. DAVID BURRAGE- Thank you. Thank you all for coming.