City Council - Regular Meeting

When I call this regular meeting of the Jacksonville City Council to order, I want to welcome everyone who's come out tonight for the meeting and also those who'll be watching on the G10 television channel. And we'll begin the meeting by rising for the Pledge of Allegiance led by Councilmember Mike Gennaro, followed by the invocation. Please rise.

Everybody turn toward the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag,

of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Dear Lord, we come to you today for the business of our community to gather thoughts and opinions and beliefs about how our community should move forward with one cohesive voice, Lord, as a unified community. Lord, we're so thankful for the opportunity to be here. We're thankful for community members. We're thankful for the blessings that we see each and every day in Jacksonville. We thank you for our elected officials who... come together to listen and to make decisions that will make and lead our community in a better direction. Lord, we ask for peace in our hearts. We ask for understanding from everyone that will listen tonight to be able to hear what others are saying, to be able to just accept that we all have differences, but yet we're going in the same direction, Lord. We are grateful for the opportunity to coexist in our community for the betterment of all of our citizens as we move forward as the city of Jacksonville. Lord, we thank you for this evening. We thank you for the blessing of yesterday and the hope of tomorrow. Lord, we ask that you bless this council this evening so they'll make the decisions for our citizens, and you bless each of us and we go in a different direction. In your name we pray. Amen.

Counsel, we've been provided with the agenda for tonight's meeting, and at this time, I would entertain a motion to adopt the agenda.

I move that we adopt the agenda. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? If there are none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed. Okay. Next, we have public comment this evening. In prior to public comment... Allow me to read some instructions that the council has adopted for the public comment. It's now time for the public comment portion of the agenda. This is a time that the council has set aside during each regular meeting to hear comments from the public. This is not a question and answer session, but a time for you to express your views on city issues to the council. Each speaker who has signed the public comment sign-up sheet may come to the podium when I call your name, and please state your name and address for the record. You may speak for up to three minutes, and when the timer at the podium and also displayed on the screen turns yellow, that is a signal that you have 30 seconds of time remaining, and you may wish to begin wrapping up your comments. With that said, I'm gonna go ahead and go down the list here. First on the list is Marsha Wolford. Which one you want?

Okay.

At the last public comment period, it was incredibly powerful to see this room full of black residents, many of whom lived through the civil rights era and Jim Crow segregation. And people have marched, bled and died for the very rights being taken away today. At this time in history, as it is moving in reverse, there is a sense of grief, frustration and anger that is overwhelming. And it's felt very deeply with the black citizens and those sitting here in this very room. While the majority of voting members on this council completely ignore their perspective, even after asking for public input, essentially dismissing and disregarding the obvious majority presence of those who spoke and attended in opposition to House Bill 1038, which changes the election system for our city council. Councilman Yanero saying after hearing from a room full of black citizens that he would like to hear from those who are currently being disenfranchised. Cindy Edwards saying the black population in the city of Jacksonville has declined and demographics of our city don't necessarily reflect the need for that anymore for wards specifically drawn on race. A vote from the majority eventually postponed any decision by the council. While it was discussed to have state legislative representatives meet with the council, that did not happen and a unified resolution was not passed. Thus, giving tacit permission and the city council's majority inaction has allowed the House bill to move forward without any formal opposition. I will remind everyone listening today that we already have two at-large members of the council and a mayor who are currently elected by the entire city population and any argument of lack of city-wide representation is null and void. I'm not sure which small group of citizens we heard from are oppressed or disenfranchised by a system wholly run and controlled by they themselves or their elected officials working on their behalf. Besides this city, the entire county and our state districts are controlled by them. The co-sponsor of the bill, Phil Shepard, stating, we have a lot of diversity here. 65% of this area's population is white. Now, if we go to tally the votes in an at-large election, I wonder which preferred candidates would win. And this, of course, is how it's intended to go. I still urge you, since you have time, because the bill has been delayed, to pass a unified resolution and oppose HB 1038, which is an overreach of your power, and let the citizens of Jacksonville's voices be heard. Thank you.

Milo Wolfer.

Let's all pause for a moment and remember why we're here today. We're here today because this council and Republican representatives have allowed a handful of squeaky wheels to enable complete control over the citizens of Jacksonville. Several elected officials including some council members have declared that racism is now over so we should create maps that favor them even more than ever before i will state that again there are currently claims that the majority white population of the city is facing discrimination while at the same time they control every branch of government in the city county and our state representation and raleigh Lest we forget the freedom riders and those who bled and died and fought with nonviolence for their voices to be heard and their struggle to be recognized and for their constitutional civil rights. We have people complaining that the majority white population can't elect their fifth city council member. These significance. prove what we know, that racism is sadly not dead, and that the Voting Rights Act is actually what is preventing people from removing civil rights from black citizens, and that it does remain necessary since people, when left to their own devices, will remove voting rights and use and abuse their positions of power to tip elections in their favor. While House Bill 1038 is in the state capital of Raleigh, the City Council has an option to vote for a joint resolution stating that you are against this bill and I urge you to do so.

I want you to hold your applause during the public comment period. And snapping your fingers also. Chris Schulte.

Hi, City Council and everybody here today. I am not a Jacksonville resident, but I am here in opposition to House Bill 1038 because, well, people that wrote that bill, are our representatives here, and they don't live in the city either. I believe that it is a power grab, and it is taking away the power of the voice of the people that live here in Jacksonville, and that we need to make sure that we're fighting against that. That it is silencing black voices, It is making sure that the local representation that the ward system guarantees is being undermined and it needs to be stopped. There has been a lot of talk lately from folks about low voter turnout. Well, yes, Onslow County as a whole has the lowest voter turnout in the whole state. That tends to benefit the Republican Party. And the only thing about the ward system is, though, is that low voter turnout doesn't benefit that party in this specific position. And that once we get three people of color on this board, this council, all of a sudden we've got to start changing the rules. When nobody that actually lives here has actually complained about that. And so it's time to stop allowing unaccountable politicians up in Raleigh tell Jacksonville what they can do. We need to stop that now. And it certainly is incumbent upon those of us that are white to be able to point out that this is a racist bill, that this needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. And I hope that each of you on that council that have not spoken out about this yet make sure that you do, because this is a terrible bill and it is just a continued power grab and an ability to hopefully take power in the last area of Onslow County that you haven't already taken control of. Thank you very much for thinking about this. Have a good night.

One more time. Let's see, Dr. Rebecca Maldonado, is that correct?

Good evening. My name is Dr. Rebecca Maldonado and I'm here to talk to you guys about HB 1038. Personally, I enjoy the ward system and I want somebody representing me from my neighborhood. We had a microburst Sunday that went through my neighborhood and I wouldn't want somebody who didn't live in my neighborhood be representing me on that and how do we better account for disasters that happen close to Wilson Bay. And so that's really important to me. And it really doesn't seem like it's too much to ask to continue to have a representative democracy and for people to have a seat and a voice at the table. Every area of Jacksonville should be equally represented so that you have different perspectives and different points of view from each of the elected officials. And speaking of elected officials, I could name a list of folks that the members of this council claim to respect and love to give awards to because they are servant leaders who many people admire but in electoral reality they also have never been elected to government here or have been forced out of from leadership due to voting changes in this county. Black elected officials who have lost re-election Reverend Judge Albert Kirby, Judge Carol Jones, Reverend Joel Churchwell, Attorney Ernie Wright, Black candidates who have lost the NC Legislature, Isaiah Ike Johnson, Daquan Love, Carolyn Fogama Reverend Carmen Spicer. Black members who have run for Board of Commissioner. Attorney Thomasine Moore. Velvet Taylor Scogin. Alicia Sutton. Those who have run for Board of Education. Dr. Takenya La Briado. Tanyetta Hill. And finally, City Council Helen Thompson. Apologies if I've left out anybody, but it is extremely disrespectful when some people attempt to name drop and say that a handful of people of color have been elected here and forgot that the majority of those that have run for office have lost and lack a majority population to ever win.

Thank you very much. Your time is up. Thank you. Dr. Gina Francis. Good evening.

Good evening. If a ward district system is good enough for Congress and the General Assembly, Why is it not good enough for the city of Jacksonville? Why was the matter of city elections taken to the General Assembly instead of to the citizens of Jacksonville for a vote? Or why wasn't it taken back to the courts, which twice ruled or settled against it? Why was the Jacksonville City Council not consulted on this matter? Why was the policy of dealing with matters on the lowest level possible before taking it to the top not considered? Why were the citizens of Jacksonville and the members of this body not consulted, not considered, not respected? In 1990, this body proposed a joint at-large ward system as a compromise to the original lawsuit regarding Jacksonville City Council elections. Seems like a reasonable compromise, giving both sides a little bit of what each wanted. On May 19th, at the May 19th City Council meeting, Jacksonville resident Ike Johnson referred to the joint at-large ward system as, quote, the best of both worlds. Seems reasonable. You cannot legislate voter turnout or apathy. District wards have to be drawn based on population. Perhaps the solution to fairness of including Camp Lejeune in a particular ward can be addressed or remedied by dividing the base between the four wards or perhaps updating the wards by a bipartisan review. Getting rid of the ward system via the General Assembly is not the best solution. It has the appearance of do as I say, not as I do. It is not a good look nor one the citizens of Jacksonville can respect when the same body that is voting against an at-large district system is elected by that very matter. It is a public relations faux pas for the General Assembly and a possible additional lawsuit. Not a good way to spend the taxpayers' money. On May 19th, citizens resoundingly spoke against HB 1038. Five for it. That said, I hope this body will take every measure it can to keep the at-large elections from passing in the State Senate. If the ward district system is good enough for Congress and the General Assembly, why is it not good enough for the citizens of Jacksonville? Thank you.

Laura Sakharin.

House Bill 1038 is a very thinly veiled racial voter suppression. 61 years after the Voting Rights Act was passed, the far right is working to dismantle it in this country. Voter suppression in Jacksonville in this year, 2026. The residents of the city of Jacksonville overwhelmingly oppose this. Politicians in Raleigh should not be making decisions on how elections in Jacksonville are working. If anything, this makes the case that representation, like ward elections, should be in place because it gives the closest representation to our neighborhoods in Jacksonville. Far-right politicians in Raleigh are trying to remove representation from minority neighborhoods in Jacksonville. Racial voter suppression in Jacksonville in 2026. How are you not embarrassed?

Brenna Kite.

Good evening, Mayor Phillips, members of the City Council, and my fellow Jacksonville residents. My name is Brenna, and although my husband's active duty military, we've been fortunate enough to call King Street our home for nearly a decade. During that time, we've developed a strong sense of community built on trust, friendship, and neighbors looking out for one another. If you drive through Belfort Combs on a sunny day, you'll see that trust in action. Children riding their bikes, playing basketball, and enjoying simple activities that define childhood. It's a reminder of a time when many of us created those same cherished memories with our neighborhood friends. I'm here today to ask for help in protecting the safety and trust that make our community special. Speeding has become a serious concern throughout Belfort Combs. Many residents have reported speeding vehicles and requested additional patrols in the area. While enforcement is important, those efforts are often reactive. I'm asking the City Council to help us take a proactive approach by installing speed bumps on King Street and throughout our neighborhood. Speed bumps would encourage drivers to reduce their speed and remain attentive while driving through residential areas where families and children are present.

Excessive speeding not only threatens the safety of the public, but also erodes the sense of security that residents should feel in our own neighborhood.

Unfortunately, we have already experienced several close calls. One King Street resident, Deborah Georges, was nearly struck by a speeding vehicle while sitting in her car just last week. In another incident, my two-year-old son was almost hit.

Sorry. My two-year-old son was almost hit while flying a kite near our street. My husband and I were screaming for him to stop, and thankfully he did. I thank God every day that our outcome was not tragic. These are only two examples of the dangerous situations that have occurred in our community. We should not have to wait for a child, neighbor, or family member to be seriously injured before action is taken. We're asking for a simple, practical solution that can help prevent future tragedies and preserve the safe, family-friendly environment that has been created in Belfort Homes. Thank you for your time, your consideration, and your commitment to the safety and well-being of our community. I respectfully ask for your support in making Belfort Homes a safer place.

Mr. Ray, get our information and have somebody take care of it.

Mr. Ray, can I ask you a question, sir? Do we currently have any speed bumps in both our homes?

Mayor, I'm not sure what we have, where we have throughout the city right offhand, but we'll get a thorough analysis and then we'll do the inspection.

I think the chief is taking care of that right now.

I'll get you a full report, Dr. Washington.

Millie, more set. Millie.

Hello. First of all, I would like to give a shout out to the fire department. They did a great job with the Furniture Plus fire. I know that they put their lives on the line every day that they put on those uniforms, so thank you for that. I want to speak about, and I don't know if you all came to a conclusion with the National Night Out. I know last year it was supposed to be moved to the Commons. but the weather canceled it altogether. I would ask that you leave it at Riverwalk. It's a community. The elderly is able to walk out of their homes and enjoy it. Children are able to walk from other neighborhoods. and enjoy it. You have locally owned businesses down there, and they should have the opportunity to benefit from the National Night Out. I live in the commons area, so proximity, it would be more convenient for me. But I recognize that it's not just about me. And so it's a community affair. I hope that you would think about leaving it where it's been all these years. You can't have everything at the Commons, and it shouldn't be. You need to be more proactive in making sure that when you have these events that are spread out throughout the city of Jacksonville. If parking is an issue, so be it. You have the baseball games at Jacquemiette and we know that the parking over there is horrible. But you still have people who come out and enjoy those games. So please think about the National Night Out. And then the other thing, as I always speak to, is our homeless population. I hope that you all are working on some type of solution. The weather is amping up. It's hot outside. I go around there on a regular basis to provide water and food. And we have to do something with that in housing. The police department will pick these people up, move them or lock them up. Some of them are dealing with mental health issues. So you just keep locking the same people up over and over again. That's not the solution. As the council, I would hope that you come together and try to figure out something for this community. Thank you. Carmen Spicer.

Good evening, Mayor, and good evening, Council. I would like to quote something by Undisputed Truth. Some of you might have heard of it. It goes something like this. Smiling faces sometimes pretend to be your friend. Smiling faces show no faces of the evil that lurks within. Can you dig it? Smiling faces, smiling faces, sometimes they don't tell the truth. Smiling faces, smiling faces tell lies. Oh yeah, let me tell you something about smiling faces. That's a song I kind of grew up on. I was going to prepare a speech and paper, but I'm kind of tired of preparing papers. Y'all know me quite well. I was born and raised here, integrated the schools here, 1964 Jacksonville Junior High School. I'm 75 years old. I'll be 76 telling all my business the 20th of June if you'd like to send me a birthday present. OK. Now, this is the deal. I have visited this more than one time, and I'm a little tired. I heard your prayer, Joshua Ray, and you said, God, you know, whatever, you didn't maybe say, you said, let us be on one accord, and if we have differences, and most of us go to church on Sunday mornings. I know you do, Councilwoman Edwards. So most of us there on Sunday mornings, and we're praying to our God, and we're doing this. But we have to look at, is God pleased at what we're doing, Chief Yonera? We did exactly what you asked us to do. We had the people here. They expressed their opinions. We started in the workshop. And then we came here, sir. So we did exactly what you asked us to do. And then you're still not satisfied. What more do you want? We did, my friend, exactly what you asked us to do. And then you still come around smiling faces, tell lies, and then you still twist and turn it all around. What do you want? Do you want us not to exist? We're not going anywhere. We won't go back. We've come too far. Don't clap. Don't clap. Don't clap. Don't clap. We've come too far and we won't go back. I'm tired of coming up here. I ain't going to talk on my sidewalks. That's my friend. But let's stop playing the games. Stop playing the games. God sees, God hears, and God knows. And you're going to have to be accountable for your behavior. I love you. God bless you. I'll see you next time.

Edith Crisp I just want to read the word of God because his word has the final say in all things

Proverbs 22 and 2. The rich and the poor have this in common. The Lord made them both. Proverbs 22, 22 and 23 says this. Don't rob the poor just because you can. But exploit the needy in court. For the Lord is their defender. He will ruin anyone who runs down. The Bible says all things are laid bare before him with whom we have to do. And one day, we're going to all have to give an account of our works. And so God sees what's being done. He knows the motivations. He knows all the little conversations that happen. He knows the smiling faces that stab you in the back, not doing what you're supposed to be doing.

Lori, I can't read the writing. It lives at 277 Woodhouse Drive. That's me. OK. Should I come to you? Yes, please. My name is Lauren .

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Good evening. My name is Lauren, and I'm here to talk about HB 1038. I believe we should carefully consider what local voices might be lost and how those communities will continue to be represented. Now underrepresented communities can rely on people they trust to be knowledgeable and care deeply about their well-being and about their communities and social determinants of health. So will this proposal ensure that communities already facing barriers to political participation will not lose their voices and will continue to be heard? I'm a community health worker, and in community health, we don't typically implement significant interventions based solely on assumptions. We assess needs, identify potential unintended consequences, we gather data, we engage stakeholders, we evaluate likely impacts, I hope that changes to our system of representation would be approached with that same level of diligence. For example, was a voting rights analysis conducted? And if not, why not? If this proposal was not requested by Jacksonville City Council and no public study has been presented demonstrating improving representation, what evidence was used to conclude that eliminating ward representation would be of benefit to Jacksonville residents? Representation is not simply about the number of votes cast. It's also about access, accountability, responsiveness, and the ability of communities to elect representatives who understand their concerns, period. Thank you. Before changing the system, I would like to know how these dimensions of representations are being evaluated. So before I walk away, my questions are, in short, who is affected? What are their needs? How will this affect communities with distinct needs? That's not only the African-American community. And whatever community, whatever pocket is affected, it ultimately impacts all of us because we live here together. So if a pocket loses their voice, you could just look in history. There's evidence what happens when people lose voice. Something happens. That's not good. And that's why things swing back to equality. So anyway. So let me go back to my questions that I want you to take away with as I walk away. What methods of analysis were used to identify potential outcomes? And what are the plans to address gaps if people who currently have representation lose it? Thank you for your time.

All right, we have the adoption of minutes and the consent items. There's a whole lot of consent items on there. There's about 16 of them. The minutes are from the June 6, 2026 workshop. I entertain a motion.

Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the minutes and consent items as presented.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

All opposed. All right. No non-consent. 17, our fiscal year 2027 proposed budget adoption. Mr. Ray.

Thank you, Mayor. We've had multiple meetings related to the fiscal year 2027 proposed budget. We are at a point in June where council hopefully is able to make a decision. However, we've had some challenges this year that the city council, actually any city council in the state of North Carolina, has not had to deal with in our history. So the proposed budget was presented to you with the guideline that the general statutes of the state of North Carolina require you adopt a budget by June 30th so that the budget can therefore be enacted for the year of July 1st through June 30th the following year. And so instead of presenting those numbers that were presented into the council agenda, I'd like to present to you the challenge that is faced by our council and the city councils in nine other counties in the state of North Carolina. Those appear in the form of Senate Bill 889. Senate Bill 889 requires Onslow County as well as eight other counties to utilize the schedule of values for fiscal year 2027. That means to prepare next year's budget, which will begin July 1st, that were in place for fiscal year 2026. In layman's terms, that means that the city council would need to utilize the tax base for the previous year for next year's budget. The challenge with that is Senate Bill 889, although it has passed the Senate on May 6th with a vote of 35 to 8, it has passed the House of Representatives on June 10th with a vote of 70 to 42, and been presented to the governor on June 10th, it has not been signed, vetoed, and has not passed the mandatory 10 days of action. Therefore, what we see is that no action has been taken effectively to bring this into law or to send it back. under a veto. So for the City Council, your challenge is to consider a budget that may be impacted by a state law. The other challenge is that if you do anything prior to the Senate or the North Carolina law occurring, there may be some ramifications. Staff is recommending, due to the fact that the governor has 10 days to take action on that bill, Senate Bill 889, that you wait until after June 21st to take action on the FY27 proposed budget. Luckily for us, city council has already allocated time on June 29th for a scheduled meeting, and we also have a special council meeting scheduled for June 30th at the regular scheduled council time of 5.30 p.m. to consider these actions.

That's all I have, Mayor. So June 21st, if it's not vetoed and it doesn't go back, it automatically becomes law, correct? Yes, sir. That's for everybody's knowledge.

I do have a quick question. On that June 29th, is that 5.30 as well?

Yes, ma'am.

Are there any considerations to extend that time for council to possibly even receive some briefs from different departments if we need it or if we should request?

Mayor, if the council chooses to set the council meeting for any time on that day, you choose to set that time. Council sets that time. We just need the appropriate time for the city clerk to advertise for it. At that point, the city staff, we will be available to answer all questions of the city council. The manager and team will be available for discussion on anything on the budget on those dates. Yes, ma'am.

Mr. Ray, I think everybody on council received the text message that I sent last night, and for the public's awareness, I attended the Oslo County Board of Commissioners meeting on yesterday evening, and the county commissioners basically have stated the exact same thing that you have presented tonight, and actually the county commissioners decided to table the adoption of the upcoming 2027 fiscal budget based upon what the General Assembly has not been able to pass as it relates to the property tax moratorium which is affecting us. So I make a motion that Council accepts staff recommendation and take no action on the fiscal year 2027 proposed budget today, bringing the budget back to council for consideration at the June 29th special council meeting.

Second discussion.

I think we do need to consider any opportunities that any members of the council would like to hear from any particular department so that there are any questions regarding any particular areas in the budget that may concern you, whether or not you want to remove them from the budget or adjust any monies. But I think that needs to be in consideration, and that should be factored into whatever time we meet.

The problem is you already have a budget in place. Basically, you've got two budgets in place. And to go back and regroup at this point in time, I think that's just... pushing things a little bit too much. First off, I mean, your manager deals with your staff and employees.

I understand that. I think it's just been stated in several different settings that individuals may want to hear more information. I just think that we should, since we do have the time, if they want to hear more information, we can use that time to do that as well.

With the... budget process that we have. We've already heard from each department and had opportunities to ask questions, and I believe we can still ask any questions we want of the manager and department heads at this time, can we not? If we have an individual question, we can ask that question and it will be distributed to all of us, the response.

We as a council now, I'm not asking for myself, but we as a council did not hear from each department head regarding the budget.

You may not have, I'm afraid. I think we did because some of that happened prior to November. These two of us weren't even here.

Yeah. That's true.

I support Councilwoman Smith. I think she's just asking for sufficient time to review the budget. And you all have seen the letter, the email that I sent out, about contrasting the processes and how this process that I've been exposed to since I've been back on council is quite different than what I'm used to. And that process did entail meetings where in a retreat setting where we had time to talk to department heads. Now I understand there's a little different philosophy about talking to the department heads. That's something that we can discuss. But as far as the time with all of these things and the way that this has been segmented into small group meetings with the city manager where I don't know what Councilman Yonero is suggesting. I don't know what Logan is suggesting. I might have good ideas that we could all benefit. We have not had the time to share that in the structure that we've been using. If we do that, it's just maybe a day. I think we can benefit from all this fluctuation and just talk to each other. And it should never come down to us just, and I know that it's a yearly process, and I appreciate how the city manager laid that out. But when you have new council persons, they can't benefit from that. And we should not just be reduced to voting on a tax rate with everything baked in. So it may not be as complicated as some of you envision. We may be able to look at some specific things and give notice and say, OK, if we could have a little more about this department. Because I know people who have talked about taking items out. So that's as detailed as you get. So just a chance to talk.

And I think that's all I was asking for. I wasn't asking for the entire budget to be rehashed. But the reality is, and the public should know, we have not come together as one council that we actually engaged in full dialogue about the budget. Have we come together as a council? Yes. Could we have brought things to the table? Of course. But I'm looking at the fact with this additional time, why not utilize it so that those of us who did not receive brief from the different departments

could possibly even hear from one or two um and and that's basically what i'm asking and also don't forget just for the public's awareness um the council went through this um approximately about 13 has it been 13 years oh god it has been 13 years in 2013 when we had a similar um situation when the um we had basically allocated our budget and the county commissioners decided to change the sales distribution tax and it caused the city council to go back and tram our budget by three million dollars and that was a very painstaking process but the fact that we had already been talking and dialoguing and Because as you can see with a council of seven, if Three people or less council members have a meeting. It's not considered a meeting behind the meeting, so it's legal to meet. It's legal to talk. However, if it's four or more, you're going to violate the North Carolina general statute law with public meetings, so you have to bring it out and to be honest. So with regards to what Councilmember Smith said and what Councilmember Willingham have said, We, again, have not talked as a collective council together to hear the pros and the cons, or better yet, the compromises. I just spent the last two weeks up in Raleigh hearing legislatures talk about compromising in various different bills that's coming through the General Assembly, and although... Raleigh is, it's just interesting right about now. Because if the truth be told, the General Assembly still didn't pass a full budget for this year that's getting ready to expire on June 30th of 26, and we're getting ready to go into a new budget when the previous year's budget wasn't fully budgeted. So we don't know what's going to hit us. Unfortunately, our citizens just recently found out that we're getting ready to lose our police chief. And although an interim police chief has been named, we don't now know how the impact of the police department is now going to affect our budget. Are we gonna end up with two police chiefs or are we gonna end up with possibly bringing back the director of public safety position? There are so many unknown variables that just giving us the opportunity to dialogue and face to face as opposed in these small section silos. And we have to be transparent and be accountable to the individuals who pay our salaries and the visuals that elected us to offer. So we owe our citizens that much.

Ms. Mayor, for discussion purposes, it's not my intent to belabor the process or make it even more intensive than what it already has been. The request is basic, and if we can do that, we can do that. If not, I understand that, but I call for the vote.

I'd like to make a comment before.

Okay, make a comment.

I mean, I think one of the things we need to do is get a list of all the things that we need to talk about so we're not going back through that entire budget. And so if we could compile a list and get it to staff so that they can prepare questions and answers and then come back to that time because, I mean, that budget is a long time. lot of information.

So if we can kind of narrow that down. How long does it take you and your staff to prepare the budget for this city?

Mayor, the budget process starts July 1. We go through that process. We deliver a budget in April to the council. Council goes through the process at every council meeting to review items for the upcoming fiscal year's budget. So Mayor, I I say there's a simple answer and there's a longer answer. The longer answer goes back to Mr. Willingham's comment that every year in August, September, council has a post budget retreat. This year didn't work for three council members because they weren't elected yet. So we had a post budget retreat that those three did not attend. Then in November, December, after these council members took seat, the council did come together for the time to talk about FY27 and to decide your council initiatives for the year. And at that time, the council was together for the retreat and talked about or didn't talk about the items that we would do for FY27. And then the staff put together a budget proposal at that point. And we talked about water and sewer rates and sanitation at workshops. And then we present council with the last six budget meetings to talk about items in the budget So the easy answer, Mayor, is 365 days. The short answer is whatever the council tells us to do, we'll do.

This process that we use for the budget, you did not create that. This was in place when you came here. Is that not correct?

Yes, sir. So we adopt a budget in the same formal process that we've used in terms of staff time and council time. The only thing we changed, Mayor, is by adding the council post-budget retreat and the vision planning retreat. Those are extra steps because we figure, as staff, we can't put together a proposed budget without the direction of the council. So back to the point of Ms. Smith, we have to have that direction of the council before we even start putting the budget together or it's reversed.

staff doesn't decide the budget staff just puts together based on the initiatives that council adopts every year which would be about nine initiatives um mr ray okay for clarification i'm just a little bit confused um because yes with with you being at the helm um i don't mean use or derogatorily um with you being our city manager we have gone through the books however I believe, and I don't want to speak for him, but I can speak from the previous city manager experience, what happened or did occur under Dr. Woodruff with our budget, that usually it happened late February, early March, and it usually went until the end of April. There was about five to six weeks that council met for three to four hours Here at City Hall, it was open to the public, and we went department by department, line item by line item. Department heads gave us their wish list. Some things were honored. Some things were rejected. It just depends. That was a part that was missing, that we could not hear from the directors to even say, over this past year, this has been our joys. We've been able to take our budget. These are the positive things that we were able to do for the citizens. This is how it benefited our neighborhoods. These are the things that did not go so well. But however, in asking for certain items, whether it's resources, whether it's tangible items, new police cars, we need a new K-9 unit. If someone needs additional manpower because their department is growing, their apartment has expanded with their responsibilities, staff is feeling overload, overwhelmed, so additional manpower is needed. That was what was missing, and that's what has been missing. And for new council members to have a different experience than what it used to be, hopefully moving forward, we can return back to that because it does give us an opportunity as council members to sit down and to go through the book, again, department by department, line item by line item, to discuss the pros and cons. And when we come up with something of this magnitude with the General Assembly, it gives us a little bit more fighting power in terms of how pivot. You know, if you want to talk about pivot, that House Bill 1038 is causing a lot of people to pivot and a lot of different ways to maneuver erroneous legislation that can have dire detrimental effects.

Yeah, Mayor, that's one thing that every year the council adopts your budget calendar. And so when the council adopts that calendar, those are things that you consider and you provide that direction back to the staff because that's how we operate. So I can value that. The other thing is we encourage council to have dialogue throughout the year so that people don't stress a budget. A budget's not something that we do just for three months every year and then we circle back to it. So it's not in a vacuum. A budget happens every single day. So when you're talking to staff members, whether those are directors or non-directors, which all of our council talk to staff members, you're having these dialogues. If you choose to talk about a House bill or a Senate bill, that's one item you can discuss. But you can also discuss their daily operations. And staff members are not untouchable from council. I mean, you guys, as a council, you have dialogue all the time with our members. team here at the city. And we encourage that because then you get that feel for the successes, the challenges. The also thing that we've implemented that you didn't have before in any of those years is we have an employee survey, which we started last year by Council's encouragement. and we did it again this year. So a lot of those concerns that you mentioned, Dr. Washington, about being overworked or pay or some other challenges, we bring that to you and you'll have that in the next report. So just with the council's budget calendar that you adopt, you're giving us that direction and that gives us that opportunity to determine if there's a different change for next year. So we're always open for the opportunity to be more efficient, more effective, definitely more transparent. The opportunity to have small meetings, uh... we still have members of council that have work schedules that are challenging to accommodate sometimes and that's something that that we just have to deal with uh... as i saw mr willing him yesterday not everybody's retired not working so we have to make sure to bring seven members together We never want to have a member that doesn't get included in the discussion. So this year, we did try something new. We did offer the opportunity for council members to sit and to discuss in smaller groups that were legal and that did not circumvent public trust or transparency. Actually, Ms. Smith decided to show up for two different meetings with two different groups. And so she gave opinions by saying, hey, if there's a seat open at the table, I will be there. And if someone else has another meeting, I'd like to be at that one too. And for that, you did show up and being present. So we encourage that. You know, one thing that we've said for years is, at least for the four years that I've been here, if communities want to host dialogue about the budget proposal, we welcome that opportunity. You know, Ms. Marzett asked today about focusing on homeless. We have these dialogues nonstop about what we can do to support all communities. And I agree, we have to do more. But part of the challenge here is if we go back to a moratorium with 889, you're talking about what level of cutting do you want to do on the revenues so that we do not negatively impact property owners. That's a beautiful discussion that council has at a very high level, but it hits everybody at the immediate level, which is your pocketbook. So we agree, Mayor, the whole process, the most input and activity from the council is the best because you guys are taking it back to the community at a very fundamental level, which is probably the grocery store, the church, or just down the street. You tell us how we're going to act, and we'll make sure to get you the information. We don't want any council member to be uninformed for this decision. It's $134 million, so it's a big deal.

Mr. Ray, if we got our questions about the budget for you and your staff to prepare it, when would you need those questions by so they can prepare adequate response?

Mayor, part of that process is if you send us something, we need to get it out as soon as possible. So instead of waiting for next Thursday to get questions, if you come up with a question, please send questions to us sooner rather than later. That way we can prepare for additional responses. We can prepare for additional staff to be present. and to give that information back to council as soon as possible so you can make decisions. We've done this this year. Dr. Washington referenced the county's version. County has said they're considering two different tax bases and two different tax rates. City council said the same thing. You have considered multiple tax rates in your due diligence and you've considered multiple tax base implications. which is an excellent planning process for our citizens to understand. You've not just sit here waiting to do nothing. You've waited for action from the state before you take action. City Council has moved forward with a current valuation and a revaluation and multiple tax rates to decide how to best move forward and to consider some of those. I say, Mr. Nero, I would just say as soon as you have questions, please send those in an email. We'll generate responses, send it back to council, and then we'll keep a run and tally for that discussion to make sure we answer everything we can for council.

Well, first, have you already cut the budget by several million dollars already to get us to where we are? I mean, you all spent a lot of time on this. I mean, I was ready to make a decision last week on this thing. But we have – and all the answers are right here in this book. I mean, you all have spent countless hours and weeks and months to figure this thing out. So I'm satisfied with it personally. And I like the way you do it versus – that was a lot of time taken up last time. So I appreciate, you know, you working on that. So – I mean, I feel like I've heard everything I need to hear on the budget, but I'm willing to, you know, to wait so we can see what the state does, because I don't like that they kind of hold us, you know, over the barrel on that one, because I don't want to make the decision then we have to go up on taxes even more. That's going to be even worse. So I'd like to hear this out, but then ready to move forward.

Part of our challenge, Mayor, is simply going through and receiving the request. Any of the department directors that are here this evening, I encourage you to have a dialogue with them. The process is where they're submitting requests, which is the wish list that Mr. Willingham had referenced to me yesterday. That's a lot of good information for the council to consider because you're thinking long-term planning and you're not thinking about just this year. you're thinking about what we need to think of in the two to three years to come, just like you do with the CIP and you do with your water and wastewater projects. Things like Dr. Washington mentioned with the police chief. That's an exciting discussion. We sent out a memo. We actually sent out a press release to share the news with our citizens. We do have a good plan, and the plan that was sent out to the council says that we will have an interim chief. The definition of an interim chief is someone who will be in that role, who will manage the police department until the next plan is put into place. So I can tell you, we do not hire people to double up those jobs. We submitted that plan, we put it in a press release, and that's how we get information out to the public, just like we advertise public here. And so we do a very thorough process every single day because we're doing the job for the city.

Mr. Mayor, we've had a call for the question, but we need to clarify. The motion and second that are on the table right now are to defer the budget. If an amendment needs to be made, it hasn't been clearly said, I don't think.

No, I did not. It was discussion. It was basically discussion. And just by way of discussion, and it poses to what just happened, I'm looking for us to discuss. And I believe from day one that the city manager has provided me with everything I need. And any questions that I have, I've been able to get it to him. But I have not received that from council. I've heard of different options. But it's through the city manager. And from my understanding, it should be among us. And that's what I'm asking for. I'll be honest with you. I'm with Mr. Sosa. I was ready to go for this thing and move on. But I thank God that we got advice from our attorney and we're making the right move by waiting. But last council, I requested a list from Mr. Yanero. I don't know what your list is still. But giving our city manager a list doesn't help me. What helps me is us having a conversation on some of the options and ideas that you are considering. That's what I'm looking for. If I can't have... every department member coming for me i at least expect to hear the voices of the council as a whole i understand that this setting and workshop settings are the only settings that we have but in light of this extension this opportunity for the special meeting my only request was extend make sure that we have enough time that if we need to get at least one or two department heads in here to explain some things considering that there have been itemized items being considered to be taken off the budget, then I would like to know how that department head feels about that, not just us making that decision. But I don't want to belabor the time, but I think my request is doable, considering that we've been given the extension, and I just want to hear more dialogue from council members. I love to hear Josh's voice, but I don't want to hear Josh's voice on every time we talk about the budget. I need to hear the council members' voices, and that's all I'm asking. Mayor, sir, that's my final comment on this subject.

All right, so we have a motion and a second.

With no amendment.

Is that right? Okay, and you did not make a... I did not make an amendment. Okay, all right, very good. All right, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Approval of the budget until, did we say 29th or 30th?

29th, yes.

To the 29th. Aye. At 530. Aye. Any questions or whatever you can submit? Keep voting.

Keep stopping. We already voted on this end.

Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye.

Zero.

Okay.

Very good. Thank you very much. Onward and upward to the 26-27 nonprofit grant funding.

Good evening, Mayor and Council, staff and audience. I stand before you to present our FY26 nonprofit grant funding recommendations. Our partnership with our local nonprofit agencies allows the city to provide services to our citizens, our nonprofits to provide services to our citizens that the city might otherwise have to provide. Through the use of community development block grant funds, we're able to meet the needs of the benefit low to moderate income individuals, remove slum and blight from our community, and meet urgent needs. We were able to address some of the adopted council goals that are listed here before you, as well as meet the priority needs that were identified during the FY26-27 annual action plan, such as homelessness, special housing needs, and affordable housing. Our budget review for this FY27 grant funding year, we've allocated $77,000 in general funds, $50,000 in CDBG funds, for a total of $127,000. The recommendation to fund for the FY27 nonprofit grant funding year is $112,000. Before you, you have the agencies that are recommended for funding for FY27. Before you, you have also the general fund grant recommendations for FY27. With a capital ask of just over $192,000 that is not included in our nonprofit grant funding year. With contingency of approval of the budget, it is recommended that council approve the recommendations for the FY27 nonprofit funding. That's all I have.

Any questions? Comments? Thank you. Thank you.

I don't have any questions for you per se, but, you know, when you talk about the budget, you know, we can't start slashing all these things but then still want to fund this stuff. I mean, we're not going to do this ourselves, so it's going to cost money. And these are all great causes, but they don't make money. You know what I mean? So we've got to – that's why we can't just keep knocking this budget out because then we're going to start losing stuff like this, which we can't afford to lose, right? So that's where I have an issue to just – to keep knocking the budget down every time we talk about it. I just don't see where you're going to trim that much fat without losing valuable things like this.

I concur with you. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that.

We did a good job, though. I wasn't knocking on you.

Is this something that we need to act on today, sir? I've lost my connection here.

Mayor, LaShawn pointed out that council can take action on this. Her last point was you can take action contingent upon an approval of the budget. So if council feels comfortable with this action, you can approve the recommended list contingent upon adopting a budget for FY27. That would mean this doesn't have to come back as an action item, or you could postpone this until the same date.

What's the pleasure to counsel?

I move that we postpone until we work on the budget, finalize the budget, and finalize it at that time.

I'll second that. Got a second. Any further discussion on that? All right. Thank you.

Aye. Are you going to vote?

We might as well. I'm looking over to the next item here. Aye, aye, aye, aye. It was a premonition that y'all were going to be ayes. Okay. All right. All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed. Okay. Next, we're going to go down to – we're going to entertain a motion to go into closed session for an attorney-client privilege discussion.

Do reports get that out of the way? Yeah. Closed session.

Yeah, let's go ahead and do – One city and – Let's go ahead and do the reports into one city. Get that done. Are you prepared?

Yes, I'm prepared.

Sorry, Mayor, I thought you were doing reports first. My apologies. No, my apologies. Ms. Smith said she wanted me to talk some more, and I appreciate that opportunity. It is great to be able to bring some One City Moments. We have a lot going on in the community, and that's the value of coming together for our One City Moments. The first one we have are our New River Institute. Some of you may know this is our partnership. to continue to tell our story. This is Pamela Trafton right here with a big smile, and I believe her smile, and I believe the activity of the students here. This year we have over 100 high school students from Onslow County, home school, charter schools, and the base, this is on and off base, who are participating in five different institutes. Each function is an institute, so the institutes as a whole, but they are five different institutes. This week we have art, leadership, and engineering. Coming up, we're going to have public safety, which is police and fire, and science. Our goal is to continue to grow as the need exists within our community. So this year, having 100 students is amazing. Over the past couple years, we've had team bonding, creative vision boards. We've had engineering students who just jump into that engineering concept because we know that science, technology, engineering, math, and there's another one. I apologize. Art and math. Is that in the steam now? Thank you. Is critical for that higher level thinking that we want in our community. So to see these kids engaged in the institutes is extremely beautiful. So to have this ability to interact across the community is a plus. And for your budget. We appreciate the support that not only the council gives, but that the community gives to make this happen. We bring the art program offsite now. So we're going across to the Arts Council to have classes there and taking students out within the community. So we're very excited about the institutes this year. But we're more excited because we have 100 students who are engaged in our programs. Stars and Stripes Mayor, this is really interesting. I wanted to show you all the beautiful pictures that we took for the Stars and Stripes event. But unfortunately, I'm going to show you the rainout version, which happened on the front porch of Jacksonville Commons. We had our 2nd Division Marine Band that came. with the Band of America's Few, and that's the veteran band members who come along to serve. Despite not being able to have our massive concert and to celebrate in the mud and the rain with our beautiful stage, these band members who ran away from the lightning, as they were encouraged to get out of the way with these large instruments, they decided to show up underneath the commons. While those of us were inside playing adult volleyball very poorly, they were playing music on the outside, and we were extremely appreciative. So as they say, the show must go on, and when you're that talented, you just perform wherever you can get the band together. So we were very excited, disappointed that the event did not happen, but for all the people that go to make these events for our celebration happen, thank you so much for volunteering and stepping up. These guys had a great time. They decided to come inside and cheer on some volleyball. We kept them active, and then they went their different direction, but they knew what the magic of Jacksonville was because they were part of it. Very exciting to be able to bring them back into town. And then the last thing I have, Mayor, is the Carolina Museum of the Marine is officially open. 26 years in the making, multiple partners, multiple thoughts, team, talents. That's... Sergeant Major Joe Hull there on the end and Senator Lozaro on the other end. You can't really think of two better bookends for the Carolina Museum of the Marine than those two to be there cutting the ribbon. The ribbon was cut. The museum is open. If you show up tomorrow morning, you will be able to go and... see what it is to be a Carolina Marine. That's North Carolina, South Carolina. You can go through the exhibits. They are incredible. It's amazing to see this is located in Jacksonville, North Carolina. But where else would it be located? The time, the money, the energy, the efforts are all incredible. once you can go inside and see the beauty of this facility that now is an anchor of our community. So for the leader, that's General Schroeder there. For the leadership, the team, and for the community members who have consistently supported this museum, even when it didn't have a prayer. It's community. It made it happen, and so many people stood up and pushed for not only a facility, but for something that's going to have depth, and it's going to allow us a lot of opportunities for engagement and for education day in and day out. Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

All right, now we'll go to reports. Mr. Willingham.

Thank you, Mayor. I had the pleasure to go to Raleigh today to the legislature and support the opposition for HB 1038. It got pulled from the calendar today. I was joined by Councilwoman Smith and Councilwoman Washington. Councilwoman Smith was busy with her lobbying, and Councilwoman Washington gave a wonderful interview to the reporters today. This is a long game and I appreciate you all. I appreciate the diversity. I appreciate the concern for neighborhood representation. That's what it's all about. We kind of got drug into the racial aspect and we know what that's about too. I'm not familiar with many accomplishments that we gained in civil rights, et cetera, that didn't require empathy. And so empathy is big with me when people who aren't directly affected show concern for the people who are. But again, I think because it's neighborhood representation, we're equally affected in this. So I really thank you all. Your voices are being heard, not perhaps as you would like them to, but they are being heard. And again, it's a long game. So I just wanted to mention the passing of Samuel Rogers. I think he was... athletic colleague of the mayor. But he was a legend in our community as it relates to advancement and civil rights in the sports field. So he was such a great volunteer to the city of Jacksonville and to the school system in the coaching arena. So I just wanted to send condolences from this stage to his family. That's all I have.

Mr. Sosa.

All right. I just want to thank Chief Tyler and his group of guys. They've been busy this last couple of weeks, and y'all have done a terrific job showing up and helping out all the citizens throughout the county. I know the residents and business owners, they all greatly appreciate all your work. And one thing I think we can all agree on, the Hurricanes won the Stanley Cup the other day. So I don't know if I watched the hockey, but that was a big deal in North Carolina. And so I'm happy about that because being an NC State fan and a Panthers fan, you don't get to celebrate a lot. So it was fun to watch this run, and it was a good way to see it. I wish I was in Raleigh to see that, too. That would have been exciting. But that's all I have to say. Thank you. I love it.

I recently had the privilege of presenting proclamations to our local chapter of the Marine Corps League and the Rolling Thunder Ride for Freedom, which was always a pleasure. I'm always humbled and just a little bit proud to be in a room full of Marines. I also attended a two-day fire chaplaincy training with area fire chaplains here, learning about how we can better support first responders when we do have crises. We know both in police and fire, there are, you know, deaths on the job, there are suicides. Sadly, there are also families in crisis and, you know, you meet someone on the worst moment of the worst day of their life, knowing how to show up and be present and not intrusive, but just show I'm here, I care, you know, and being present. It was a really good training and I was really Thankful that I could go. And then Thursday of this week on June 18th at 10 a.m. is the official Juneteenth observation by the Civic Affairs Committee. It will be held at the government complex out on Northwest Boulevard, I believe it is. out there off 258. At 10 a.m., if you are available to come, please join the official observation. It's about a 30-minute program, talks about the history and the importance of Juneteenth. And then the next day and into the weekend, there will be lots of local festivities. There will be things happening at Georgetown and at... Riverwalk Park. And there are multiple things. So please look it up online. Find out what's going on. Be present if you can be there at all to show support and celebrate. It's the official end, the last reaches of the end of slavery. So it was the first day of freedom for a lot of folks in the state of Texas in particular. So I want to celebrate that occasion.

Dr. Washington.

Yes, Mayor and Council and to the members in the audience and viewing G10, this last past two weeks, my emotions have been very labile as it relates to Senate Bill 1038. And I will just say to the public, this particular bill, it's triggering certain emotions for individuals. For those that called Jacksonville home, for those that are still old enough to remember, there has been a lot of things that has happened in society. that have been systematically put in place that will allow others to progress at the expense of placing barriers for others not to succeed. Just about every aspect of life in the city of Jacksonville, one can relate about the positive gains about the positive games. When you listen to Mr. Willingham talk about empathy, it's a word that has great responsibility because it actually challenged individuals to be able to place themselves in someone else's shoes and to view life in the eyes of that individual. Not coming in with your own agenda. Well, maybe you're not seeing it this way, or maybe you're putting too much. We've had enough of diminishing, minimizing, dismissing, marginalizing, projecting our feelings some of those not so nice things about ourselves that we want to put onto others to kind of get our way in terms of what we want. last week when I was up in Raleigh and I spoke to the delegation of the election law committee. To my surprise, when I went, I really thought that I was going to have three minutes to speak to the public or to the committee the same way that Our council allows for public comment from our citizens, and we give you about three minutes, but that three minutes really goes very fast. When I was informed that If the chair was going to allow for public comments due to the schedule, public comments would be allowed, but however, public comments would be reduced to one minute. What a pivot to give an elected official one minute to speak. And to the best of my ability, I really tried my very best to speak on your behalf of what detriments this bill is going to cost us. Regardless of the color of your skin, we don't want to pay that price because it's a heavy price to pay. And when you think about the city of Jacksonville and all that we stand for, you know our motto is a caring community. You don't begin implementing or wanting the world to realize you are a caring committee by taking away privileges that when it works for you, it's okay. But when those same privileges are assigned to others, now all of a sudden it's a problem. As it was stated, we do know that when it comes to The election of our state representatives and senators that go to Raleigh, they are elected on a district election system. Our representatives are district 14, 15, and 16. If you live in District 14, you vote for the candidate of choice. If you live in 15 and 16, so forth. That's no different than currently what we have. But yet, in this argument, here's the contradiction. If the at-large system is fair, one would have to ask, then, why isn't the General Assembly elected at an at-large election system? And I can give you one answer. I can't give you all, but I can give you one answer. And the answer is any candidate that lives east of I-40, that's us, east of I-40, you would never get elected because your delegation would come from Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Charlotte, and a strong seventh would be Asheville. So it is very interesting how individuals who benefit from the ward system on the state level would want to preemptively change the way that we vote for representation here in Jacksonville. So if the system has to be changed, why not experiment with the state General Assembly? It's just thought. It's just a thought. Mind you, we could take it to the next level, but we really can't, because then you're going to start talking about the United States Constitution. But maybe, just maybe, one of the conversations with our representation in Raleigh is that maybe the state constitution needs to change, and you start with your own election system. And then, in the words of Dr. Phil, tell us how that's working for you. I cannot tell you where it's going to go. But I can tell you that your council is going and your council is fighting because it's going to impact us all. And if it's happening to Jacksonville, what other municipalities are going to face? the same challenges. So I encourage each of you to continue to send your emails, either formal, informal, two sentences, 15 pages, your heart's desire with regards to your opposition to Senate Bill 1038. House Bill. House Bill, excuse me, House Bill. Because as Mr. Unaro have said, at no point in time have we seen the two sponsors and co-sponsors coming to Jacksonville and facing the council or you, the constituents, to give a justification as to why. Why does it need to change? If it's been working for 36 years, why does it need to change? So I encourage you to continue to lift your voices, continue to write your representatives, and maybe, just maybe, you may have to take a trip to Raleigh with your city council to fight for your rights. Just because the bill was taking off the calendar It can be placed back on the calendar. So I encourage you all to continue to raise your voices. Thank you.

First of all, I had the opportunity about a week or two ago to go to the water plant and get a tour and talk to the folks there. And I'd been to the water plant before when they opened it. And one of the things that I thought was really telling is how the quality of the workers that you have there are working to make sure that we have clean water. They're very certified. They're very proud of the job they do. Chief Tallman's people did an excellent job at the fires that we had, but the water folks were back there making sure that they had the water by changing our distribution system to give them enough water to fight those fires. So the firefighters and our water plant did an excellent job in the last couple weeks of fighting fires. The other thing I want to address is, you know, I've said that when we talk about, and I've said this twice, first is to listen to the community. I said that. But I also said that one of the things that we need to do is move slowly and get information from the school of government so i requested that we look at the school of government and use the school of government because they're the experts on this election law i mean we didn't ask for ten thirty eight But what we have to do is we have to look at what's best for the city. And getting the information, and I actually talked to Bob Joyce, who's the election expert at the School of Government, and I would encourage everybody to do that. Because there are some, with the Calias decision, there are some things that we're gonna have to change. Whether we make it, whether if 1038 fails and we make a decision, we're going to have to change our charter. And so I think moving slowly makes sure that we're acting in the best interest for the city so that we don't subject ourselves to fervest lawsuits and have to defend ourselves. And moving slowly makes sure that we're looking at all the options that we have. And that's what I encourage by tabling those motions to make sure that we have all the information we need.

Are you done? Yes.

Thank you, sir. First of all, I'm just so excited about what's going to take place this week on June 18th. We have our very own, should not be postponed for any reason, but our very own Major Capers receiving the Medal of Honor on the 18th. I think we could just go ahead and put our hands together for that. our very own living legend here in Jacksonville, North Carolina. So I'm so excited. I just hate, I can't be up in D.C. with him, you know? And then second thing I want to make note of, it's been mentioned twice already, but it's more so on a personal note, and that's the action of Jacksonville Fire's department and all of those that support that department. My best friends, or my best family friends, because they're more than friends to me, home caught fire on Sunday. And it was through the quick action, it was through the technical ability and the smarts of all those who put that uniform on, and it's a heavy uniform, but made sure that they were able to save their home. And right now, they are well on their road towards recovery. The city of Jacksonville and Oslo County has poured out onto them in ways that I can only attest to the fact that they have, in the past 25 years of being here, have poured out to this community. So if anyone knows the Proctors, owners, and custodial workers of the spot Florida style seafood. They have definitely expressed their gratitude and thankfulness, not only to our fire department, but also to our personnel here with the city of Jacksonville. And I just want to do a personal Shout out to someone that I've grown to honor and respect in our dealings together, and that's our very own assistant city manager, Anthony Prince. He's definitely been one that I can be able to lean on, contact, talk with, and make sure that those things that I don't have an understanding of, he's able to bring clarity. So I wanted to put that out there because he was definitely one, along with our fire chiefs, just making sure things went well and that home was saved. And I know I talk about my own personal friends, but I know they do that for every home that they encounter when it comes to saving, whether it's home or business, that's actually able to be saved. I also want to show my excitement about Juneteenth celebrations this weekend. I'm going to definitely be joining our very own Councilwoman Sidney Edwards on the 17th No, 18th, 18th at 10 a.m. for the observation. But I can't wait until the 19th at noon. I'm going to be with the Georgetown Renaissance Community Association as they present their 26th annual Juneteenth kickoff cemetery ceremony at Community Blankets of Honor. So I'm excited about joining all of them. at noon for memorializing those who won't be forgotten and celebrating the impact of those of us that are still here. That same day, I'm going to change clothes because it's probably going to be nice and hot. But I'm going to be ready for the Juneteenth Festival at the Riverwalk Park. And just an attestment to Melody's statement earlier, Melanie's statement earlier, that the Riverwalk has been a home to a lot of celebrations. And for us to be able to come there yet in the second year in a row to celebrate Juneteenth, I'm excited about that. So hopefully I'll see you guys there at 4 o'clock. I believe the ceremony actually starts at 4.30, so come on out. And then I get to, and I say I get to because I'm excited. I want to be in everything. June 20 of that Saturday, there is a scheduled parade. I'm waiting on the update on that, but I'm going to find a spot to get in there and wave my hand and get all musty. And then go ahead and change over for... the Juneteenth Gala that's going to take place at Sturgeon City. So I'm excited about all of the things that we're doing to acknowledge not only someone who has represented the Marine Corps, but has represented the heart of a military person. in the awarding of the Medal of Honor for our very own Major Capers. But I'm also excited about us as a city. And I don't take that for granted because every city is not celebrating a holiday that is nationally recognized and is a time for us to pause and understand that there are those of us who did not receive our liberties and freedom on July 4th. So that's why June 19th is a staple for those of us who grew up, such as myself, celebrating that time where there was a group of people here in America that was able to celebrate along with others. So please join me. Hopefully see everybody out there and having some good time, eating some good food. Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you. Ms. Welch.

Thank you, sir. I did want to say I think this is the last meeting where Chief Phelps will be here supervising to ensure that all of our citizens are safe. And I want to thank him for his service to the city of Jacksonville and say it's been a pleasure to work with him as a city attorney.

Good luck in Boca Raton. All that sun down there. All that sun and all them mosquitoes. There you go. All right, so now we'll entertain a motion to go into closed session. So moved. Second. All right, back in open session.

Ms. Smith? In light of how our current charter is written, along with... The redistricting that has already taken place in 2021 due to our census in 2020, I believe that our charter needs to reflect the true dimensions of our districting here when it comes to two at large, or excuse me, the four ward system and its equitable distribution of population. So I move that our Council resolve to take meaningful steps towards passing a resolution of intent to change our charter under the provisions of North Carolina General Statutes 160 , Section 101 and 102 by incorporating into the charter changes in our electoral district based on population shifts and geographical changes and to enhance administrative efficiency. specifically to move that this council pass a resolution today creating a redistricting committee to provide recommendations to the city council on changes to our wards so as to make them, the wards, comparable in size and population.

Second. All right, there's a motion and a second on the floor. Discussion?

Madam Attorney, I have a question for you. If we were to adopt this and go through the process of redistricting for our city and end up with wards that are substantially the same as the existing wards, the language may be different, a process has been reentered, but the wards that we end up with are similar to the wards that we have now, what would be the legal benefit of that and what would be the legal liability of it having gone through a label change and a process and redistricting, but if it ends up primarily the same as it is, what happens?

Yeah, so there's so much that can happen between now and the end scenario. So much that can happen based on what types of census data we're going off of, what types of geographical data we're going off of, and specifically what sorts of administrative efficiency we'd be promoting. At this point, I think at this stage, we're talking about basically resolving for a resolution of intent to change our charter. So at this phase, I would say it could be that a change to the charter changes nothing legally for the city. It could be that it changes everything for the city. I'm sorry, I can't be more specific. That's fine. But I can't guarantee that a change to the charter at this stage would go one way or the other.

Understood. And if we make a change to our charter and then in two weeks, three weeks, whenever... Brawley ever does what it does. If they passed 1038, would that not supersede any effort we have undergone?

So it would. So the legislature... basically does a charter for every municipality as a local act. And generally, only a local act of the legislature can be essentially undone or changed by a local act of the legislature. This is very strange. This is one of the few areas where the legislature has ceded some authority to municipalities to have some autonomy, one of the very few places. And that's in North Carolina General Statute 160A, 101 and 102. And in those places, the General Assembly has said, there are mechanisms whereby a municipality can adopt an ordinance to change a charter or where the general public can adopt a referendum, which then, if passed, could change a charter. And then there's hybrid systems of the two that could take place, all of them permissible by statute. But they come with certain... time frames or certain requirements, whereas the legislature's ability to change a city's charter does not come with any time frame or any constraints. So there would be nothing preventing the legislature from changing the city's charter today, tomorrow, or in perpetuity.

And should 1038 actually get passed in both houses and go forward, then we could come back in 18 months to 24 months, depending on what the legal rule is, and then still revisit a ward system or an alternate or a different kind of hybrid system to reinstitute more community representation if we want to. We just have to navigate that process as a response, if you will.

Correct, so under the current law, there are restrictions on when the city could initiate a change to the charter and there's restrictions on when charter ordinances could take effect. So there's a time restriction on a change to the charter that says any change to any city's charter has to be in effect for at least two years from the implementation or the election of the person in that position if they're changing the election forms so that is already in place for any change to the charter but it also has language in the statute that says if you were to initiate a change to the charter those can only be done in certain time frames and one of those time frames under the statute is 18 months I believe it says if, for example, a public referendum were defeated and a public referendum to try to change our charter were defeated, the public could not then initiate a new referendum to change a charter within 18 months. So those are two timeframes we're looking at, 18 months and two years. But you're right, those timeframes do not apply to the legislature.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

in response to what Mrs. Councilmember Edwards just said, Mayor Pro Tem Edwards just said. So if we change the charter, what prevents the General Assembly for changing the charter the way they want it if it's not changed, if we don't change it to their specificity?

Absolutely nothing. So that, unfortunately, is the law of municipalities there before the grace of the legislature.

I'm just asking. So if we decide to change it, they can come and immediately change it to their structure.

That's correct.

So what would have been the gain for us to change the charter on our own, and then they come back and change it to fit Their motives.

These are policy considerations, counsel, would be wise to keep in mind.

But for us, I mean, it really seems that we need to find out what happens with 1038. If it's defeated, then obviously we could change our charter and fix it. But if it goes through, then we're two years before we can change it.

Right is that is that so also policy considerations to keep in mind that you're right that if the charters changed The statute does say that change has to remain in effect for two years Before another change to the Charter if we're talking about the election cycle two years if it's an administrative It's sort of implied. It's not overt in the statute that it also needs to remain in effect for about two years And what is the ramifications if we don't do anything I? Our charter remains the same.

And we're subject to what?

Well, our charter as it is right now subjects us to some legal liability.

But we still have to wait for the decision on this 1038 bill, correct?

We don't have to wait.

We could take action today.

That would supersede this regardless, correct?

But whatever the legislature does does supersede any actions we take.

That's what I'm saying. That's why I don't understand why we're doing it now, I guess. If it passes, then I guess this is a mute point, correct? I mean, am I right or wrong?

Yes, you're right.

I want to put out here that this council has not even put a resolution on whether or not they support or oppose 1038.

That's right.

We haven't even done that.

But we won't know. I mean, tomorrow we should have an idea if it's going to go forward or not.

No, we have an idea of what the legislator or what Representative Gable and Shepard wants done for this city tomorrow.

No, no.

As far as the next step. But we still have autonomy here. But we still have.

I don't understand why we're doing it today and not waiting until we find out what happens 1038.

Yeah, that's kicking a kid out. I guess we're unconfused. I understand if we make a change, there has to be a two-year window before we can make another change, correct? Under certain circumstances, that's right. Absolutely, and I understand that part. However... If we make a change, regardless of what that change is, the General Assembly can say, nope. It's going to be this. So what we have already dismantled and amended and restructured to put in place, that can still be rejected by the General Assembly, and we're back to square one because they can change it. So no matter what way we look at this, they have the power to change it.

That is the way the law is structured in North Carolina. We're not a home state state. The municipalities don't have any inherent power or authority. Whatever power or authority we have is whatever is given to us specifically by the legislature.

Mr. Willingham, you have a comment.

Thank you. To Councilmember De Niro's point, tomorrow's decision is one stage. Exactly. At some point, it makes its way to the Senate and their committees. So you'd be waiting on that, too. I think we started out this evening with trying to follow our attorney's advice to protect us from liability. That's all we were looking at. What steps do we take to protect us from liability? To end this discussion with the state can do whatever they want to, how long have we known that? That's the starting point. That's not the end point of the conversation. We knew that from the get-go. Okay, so what do we do to protect ourselves from liability as much as we can? I understand the charter. I didn't quite understand Cindy's question when it was if they changed it, then we could come right back and change it. But I was confused by that one. I thought that's the question.

There's the same time limit. It's 18 to 24 months before you can revisit.

But if they change it to at large, we're going to change it back to war system? I don't see that ever happening.

Well, we could in two years, right?

No, you won't. We could.

You won't. We could in two years if the law doesn't change. And if they don't take away our ability to do it pursuant to 160A-101-102. I'm sorry.

Mr. Willingham has the floor. I'm sorry.

We're doing too many hypotheticals. Hypothetically, yeah, yeah, yeah, all of them. But we're doing too much of that. What we should be looking at now is how do we protect ourselves and limit the liability, and that's what the motion was designed to do. So, take off the charter for the purpose of my comments here. We can change the district lines, ward lines, anytime. In fact, we do it when there's an annexation.

And that can just be done via resolution as well. It doesn't have to be a charter amendment.

It doesn't have to even have anything to do with the charter. Okay? So if y'all got problems with the charter, oh, well, but I think you should do both because the charter is wrong based on the Calais. Why would we not change it? And why would they change it back? Y'all are hypothesizing too much. Why would they change it back? Exactly. to being violated or something you find offensive. So that don't make sense to me. But we kind of jumped over one thing. We act like with Cindy's question, if the committee came back with the same setup, then you wouldn't approve it. Don't we have to vote on what the committee brings back?

We would have to ultimately vote to pass a resolution.

Then you don't approve it.

Yes.

So we don't end up with the same, not this council. Y'all not going to end up with the same thing. So that's another hypothetical that's out of the ballpark. So that's all I got.

Thank you, Ms. Williams.

All right. So we have a motion and a second on the floor.

I still think we ought to table this motion until we find out what happens with 1038. I think it gives us time. I mean, regardless, we've got a year and a half before the next election. We still have time to do that. Are you making that informal motion? Yes, sir.

Okay.

Instruct me.

Yes, so the way our local rules work and the rules of parliamentary procedure, Mr. Yanera's motion actually takes priority. We have to vote on that one first. And that's a motion, just so I'm tracking, that's a motion to defer consideration of Ms. Smith's motion.

And I think we'll be able to make this informed decision sometime in August. I'm sorry. Because the... short session should be over by then.

I'm still stuck at the fact that we had the council hadn't even come with a resolution on whether or not we even approve it. And that's one of the chief questions that was asked on the election law committee. Every question, every individual I've spoken with wants to know what does Jacksonville, North Carolina council, what is their resolution towards this? And we have yet to do that.

So they make a decision in August, according to your prediction. And we get sued in July.

The motion to table takes precedence, right?

That's correct.

Does anybody need a second? Did you have a second? Who seconded? Anybody?

Technically, our rules don't require a second, which is strange.

What?

Okay. It doesn't require a second.

No motion? Or just this one, this special one?

It's okay. You don't have to look at it. We can go ahead. The amended motion takes precedence. I know that part of it. Yeah, she's good.

You want to be the parliamentarian?

I need legal counsel.

I guess I'm confused on all this.

Are we voting on the chiefs? Yes, on table. We're going to take vote on the chiefs. You say it doesn't need a second. That's what I'm waiting for.

I am so sorry. It does require a second.

Is that under the...

It's under our rules, not under Robert's rules or the suggested rules for a local city council. Sorry about that. I misspoke. I knew one had it and one didn't.

His motion to table does require a second.

So that would put two motions on the table?

No, it's just one. We're voting only on the tabling.

So if we table it, then we're just waiting until, what is it, August? We're just waiting again to make another, have this all over again? Is that what we're saying? I don't want to do that.

In all honesty, when it's tabled, you know, to bring it back up is probably not going to happen. I think you have like a 90-day window or something like that.

Yeah, I believe it's within the next six sessions to reconsider, yeah.

Okay. I think hypothetically it was for August, but go ahead. So can we go back to our motion? She has a motion and a second.

Okay.

Call the vote. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Nay. For which ones?

Oh, for these.

Okay, we're done. Show of hands for the yeas. For the yeas. Show of hands for the nays. Okay, we're going to put it off until after we determine whether or not 1034 runs or not. 1038. 1038, excuse me.

1034 is time and 10 code.

But 1038 goes because we really still have no solid information as to what course we can take at this point.

I think the mayor's cast his vote.

Yeah, the vote is done. Yes, vote's over with. I move that the City Council submit a resolution as to their approval or proposal of HB 1038.

Is that a legitimate...

that is a very interesting motion so council can of course put a resolution in opposition council can also ask for resolution in favor it would be a con a complex motion a compound motion to say i move the council resolve to move one way or the other um i honestly don't know

I want a legal opinion.

Sorry, give one in front of us. For the record, I want to note that I did make the motion for the council to submit a resolution whether it's for or against HB 1038.

But if it's not legal...

If that's what has been asked. I want to hear from our attorney first on this. Or somebody.

Yep, yep.

Our clerk is trying to clarify.

Sorry, we didn't mean to go off the record. She's trying to clarify. So Mr. Yanero's motion died for lack of a second because our rules do require a second. I'm learning. And then Ms. Smith's motion for, yep.

Period.

That's right. That's right. And the mayor voted with the tie. So at this point, it's Ms. Smith's agenda item. I didn't know if there was any other.

Can we do that because it wasn't on the agenda, the resolution? That was my question.

Yeah, that's a real hard one. So council can do just about anything that's not a formal ordinance. The rules are pretty clear. You can resolve one way or another in almost every instance. So I think the motion on the table is can we resolve to resolve one way or the other whether or not we're in favor or opposition of House Bill 1038. I think that's the current motion. That is the current motion.

Okay.

Okay. And I believe that's something council could take a vote on to show the intention of council either to resolve one way or the other or not to resolve one way or the other at this time.

But at our last council meeting, I do believe council member Unero made the motion to table

resolution that's also correct yep and no one made a motion to revive that to put it on the agenda we also don't have a resolution form to compare that's right that's right

Well, I wouldn't be in favor of the resolution as it was written. I mean, I understand that. I appreciate what you did, but I think that's not the resolution that we should vote for or vote on.

The language is problematic, given the legal concern. I think so.

What are we talking about?

We're talking about the resolution, the one that we went through and we discussed.

I mean, you can throw it, I guess legally she could throw it out there as a resolution.

Yeah, she can ask for counsel to resolve to take a position one way or the other on House Bill 1038.

That's different than the resolution.

Yes, it is.

So what are we doing? I don't know. Somebody make the decision.

It's her agenda item. I mean... I'm waiting on a second. If there's a second, if there's no second, then my motion dies. No, no.

Can we move on? Your motion is up or down on 1038, is that correct?

That's it. That the city of Jacksonville knows what this council majority voting stance is on HB 1038.

So is there a second?

Which we have.

Hold on a second. I'm so sorry. I didn't hear that motion is articulated.

The motion is verifying whether or not the, or submitting a resolution, whether it's up or down on HB 1038. In other words, whether or not this council is in support or is in opposition of HB 1038.

Okay, so we can't force a vote on that, but we can, I think the initial motion was we move as a council to resolve to take a stand on House Bill 1038. Was that what was articulated first?

That's what was articulated first. Okay, I'm sorry. So I'm trying to make sure I got the right verbiage on what.

Council can resolve to resolve to take a position on House Bill 1038, if that's the motion.

That's my motion.

Okay.

That's my motion.

In other words, do you guys support HB 1038 or not? I don't understand.

Mayor, can I add another comment? And this is what I was just talking to Lorna about. There's an option instead of resolving for council to take an informal vote, Ms. Smith can make the motion that council support HB 1038. Ms. Smith doesn't have to vote in favor of that, or Ms. Smith can make the motion to council to not support 1038. And Ms. Smith doesn't have to vote for that either. You can pick one and you can vote, or you can instruct staff to draft the resolution with you to bring back later. But I think those are three motions Ms. Smith can make that you can vote, but you can't, I struggle with how you're gonna tell someone else to vote one way or the other, but you can definitely make that motion.

Thank you. I'm new. Cleaner.

Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. So I move that this council vote in opposition of HB 1038. Is there a second? I'm sorry, Mayor. I'm sorry, sir.

I just got a motion on the floor.

Second.

I have a second. Any other discussion?

I will say, given legal advice from the Harvard-trained election law expert at the School of Government and our own city attorney, I cannot support this, so I will be voting no because it exposes us to additional liability to oppose that bill.

Is that correct?

That's my comment. It's not a motion.

It's a comment. Are we discussing? Discussing? Yep, we're discussing. What exposure are you referencing?

The current charter is a challenge. Opposing this bill, in essence, upholds the current charter. It's just not a wise maneuver.

You said it exposed you. You were told you would be exposed to liability. I'm just asking you, what were you told in terms of where this liability comes from? Because I don't understand.

I would ask that we be careful about breaching the attorney-client privilege, anything I would have advised you about in closed session.

No, I thought she said she talked to somebody else. Someone else.

It's the Bob Joyce.

Yeah, I think she said, based on the advice I received, which you can always say for the record you're relying on advice of the attorney, just not necessarily what the attorney would have advised you on, that would violate the attorney-client privilege.

You're saying there's attorney-client privilege in what somebody at the School of Government said?

No, sir.

What she says.

What she said. I just would caution against any council member saying what advice I would have given in closed session to the majority of the board. I don't think you said that.

Some of the counsel I received from our city attorney included notes from a conversation with that Harvard-trained expert in election law at the School of Government. So it came that way to me. Maybe not to everyone else, but that's how I got it.

But you raised it as part of a discussion.

Which I can do. It's okay.

I don't know. It sounds like you raised something you shouldn't be discussing.

All I'm saying is given the legal advice I have received, I don't think that's a wise maneuver. That's all I'm saying.

But you had a direct conversation with the person.

No. I spoke to our city attorney and saw notes from the conversation. I did not speak to Bob Joyce directly.

But is reviewing communication considered nonverbal communication equivalent to verbal conversation?

So I would say the school government does not give advice to the city council. They can advise you on the law, but they're not going to give you advice that's going to be applied to your situation. I was only just making sure, and I know Ms. Edwards understands, I didn't mean to... undermine her because she understands I think the attorney-client privilege. I just want to make sure to remind counsel that anything I would have advised counsel in a closed session, I would encourage counsel not to put on the record specifically what my advice would have been applied to our situation just because that would then open us up to saying that privilege no longer applied to those attorney-client privilege communications in closed session.

So maybe expert assessment would be better than expert advice in that third party.

You can absolutely say, based on advice I've been given, I'm deciding this way. She's not said any particular advice that was given by an attorney in closed session. She's just saying, based on that advice, I'm acting a certain way, which is in fact a protection that counsel does enjoy to follow the advice of counsel being me, counsel SEL.

Well, the other thing, too, is that it would be nice for us to be able to read a resolution and see exactly what it says.

We tried that.

Well, yeah, I know, but... You weren't participating. Well, but in my discussions with Mr. Joyce, he said it would have been... You can talk about yours. Yeah, because I actually talked to him.

Okay, let's hear it.

And one of the things he said was, talking about race in a resolution... would open us up to some liability based upon Calais. So I've been extremely careful about what that resolution said. And I would like to see it before I voted on it. to make sure that it's legally that we're covering ourselves.

What resolution are you referring to, sir?

I was talking about Mr. Willingham's resolution that he brought up last week.

And what concerns you in there about race? What concerns you?

Well, part of it had talked about the wards being developed because of race in that resolution.

hold on i don't think so hold on just now we talk about her resolution or his resolution his resolution there is no resolution on the table right now are you making a resolution or is mr willingham making a resolution I'm trying to follow him.

He led us down this path. I think it's time to go home.

Maybe I shouldn't have led you down this path.

I don't know. I'm trying to follow him.

But something was tabled, but in the tabling, it was never talked about when it was going to come back to council. That's right. So why haven't... there have been a meeting, so a resolution could be developed if you're saying Mr. Willingham's resolution that he presented had race. We could have had another meeting and sat down as a council and revisited a resolution again.

Yeah, a motion to defer consideration of a substantive motion. That motion to defer consideration expires after six regular meetings have been held following the day of deferral unless a motion to revive consideration is adopted. So to the best of my knowledge, there's been no motion to revive consideration of a resolution that was proposed by Councilman Willingham.

Read the part before and last.

Yes, sir. So under our rules, and this is at... Rule 21, procedural motions, which says in addition to substantive proposals, the following procedural motions and no others shall be in order. And then it goes on to list in order the procedural motions, and the ones at the top take priority over the ones underneath. So down at F, there's a motion to defer consideration. And that says a substantive motion, the consideration of which has been deferred, expires after six regular meetings have been held following the day of deferral unless a motion to revive consideration is adopted.

Precisely. We don't have to revive it until after six meetings. We can just bring it up without formal revival.

That's the way I read it.

So she can bring it up.

But I didn't bring it up.

Mayor, the motion on the floor was Ms. Smith's motion to oppose 1038. Yeah, that's what's on the table.

That's right.

That was her motion. Okay.

And it was seconded.

It was seconded. Okay. The discussion just went down a hole.

It just went down a rabbit hole.

So let's just go ahead. If somebody else has any other discussion. Mr. Willingham, do you have anything further?

I think Councilwoman Edwards had just given her comment, and I think we kind of went off on that. So I guess it would be with whoever else wants to make comments.

Anybody else? No. Okay. All those in favor of her motion to oppose... Can I make a motion?

To amend or whatever.

He can. Table. Table. Motion, table. Requires a second now. I'll second. Okay.

And that takes priority. Mm-hmm.

So with that, all those in favor of tabling this, do you have a specific date to bring it back? No.

Table for now.

All right. So a motion to table. There is a second. All those in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

All opposed.

Aye. Okay.

All right. With that. Did you get the numbers there, Madam Clerk? Yes, sir, I did. Okay. There's one opposing, I believe. One opposing. Okay. And with that, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Second that. There's a second, hopefully. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed.