Planning and Development Board - Regular Meeting

Good evening everyone. Uh welcome to the uh planning and development board uh meeting uh for Tuesday, April 28th, 2026. It's uh 6 pm and I'd like to call this meeting to order. Uh what we'd like to do first is begin with uh introductions. Uh I'm Max Feffe uh chair of the board. Uh Nicholas, director of planning and development and staff to the board. Sam Quinn Jacobs, planner and staff to the board. Jim, assistant city attorney. Emily Patrina, member of the board. Mitch Glass, member of the board. Peggy Tully, member of the board.

Nikki Sarah, environmental and landscape planner and staff to the board.

Great. Um board members notice that um I have the microphone very close uh here because so it's been pointed out to us that we need to speak clearly into the mic and so uh I'll do a better job of that and I urge all of you Emily you've already been cited as doing that very well. So but but that was that's good feedback that we got uh uh for that. So, um, tonight I want to draw people's, uh, attention. There's exit in the back of the room and at the front of the room. Uh, we have restrooms, women's restrooms on the first and third floor, men's restrooms on the second and fourth floor. Um, and I think, do we do we have that emergency thing? Do I need to read that? I don't see it.

Oh, it's at the mayor's.

Oh, there it is. It's up there. I forgot about that. Yeah. All right. And so we uh I want to let everybody know about our emergency uh evacuation procedures. In case of an emergency evacuation, we are to take one of two exits. Uh they're both at both ends of the rooms, which I mentioned a moment ago, and wait at the trees on the same side of the street on South Kauga and Green Street. We do not cross Green Street unless absolutely necessary. Those with restricted mobility in the event of an emergency. It's best to move to one of the stairwells and first responders are going to arrive to aid you. In the event of another other emergencies, you'll be notified at that time. Uh we want everyone to be aware of their surroundings and offer help when it is not uh to your own detriment as you are your own best advocate. All right. So, um I think what we'd like to do next is move on to the agenda review. Uh do we have any additions to the a or changes to the agenda?

We do. And it's just um in number eight, old new business. We'll now have a number a new number two. After the PUB presentation, we'll talk about whether the board will make a recommendation for the um new policy of expanding PUB. And then the zoning advisory committee will become number three. Great. Thank you very much. Um, any other comments or suggestions on the agenda?

All right, we'll move on. Um, I'd like to move uh to review the minutes and approve them. Uh, do I have a motion to approve, Emily? Um, motion. Do I have a second, Peggy? Second. Thank you. Um, any discussion? I personally haven't had a chance to Okay. They were just distributed online with the with the agenda. It's okay.

Do you want to wait then to vote on them next time? Would you like that? Yeah. Okay. Okay, let's let let's table that discussion and we'll come back to that next time. Will you make a note of that? Yeah. All right, great. Um, now I guess what I'd like to do next is move on to public comments. Do we have anyone here wishing to speak to the board? No. Is there anybody online? There's not.

All right. So, we'll move on uh from that. Now, I think that for the next uh point, we're here with council. We're going to have some advice from council. Uh I think what we're going to do is stop the meeting uh for a few minutes while we'll recede recess to another room and uh have a report from council. All right Sam that we'll be right back.

It's recording. We are recording. Okay. All right. So, I think we're back uh in session. Thanks everyone for your patience. Uh next on our um agenda is site plan review for 309 College Avenue Apartments. Uh tonight we're going to be looking at uh secret review for uh design review uh community and historic characterist uh character character and a general update on the project. Do we have the folks on online?

Yeah, we have Chris um online. How about now? Hey, Chris. There we go. We can

Great. Hi. Good evening. All right. Um so what we've done here is we've taken the inputs from the the last meeting um which was to either keep pushing for uh an expanded loading zone area or to um in in in the for the best of timing to get this project moving forward. We we've let go of it. So we are now saying maintain the loading zone. So, I've upd up updated the documents to indicate that and and hopefully that that helps just keep this project moving forward. Um, other than that, we've got no change to our plan. Um, it's it remains the same. Uh what we also did was heeded the advice regarding the retaining wall in the back and and we have found a form liner that we like for uh pre-cast concrete which I think does really liven up that back wall quite a bit. um and hopefully um keeps us uh from having to look into mosaic or uh murals, something that we feel might just become damaged. Um uh moving along for design review um presentation, our um elevation, our renderings really have not changed. Um there's been some you know coordination with mechanicals but for the most part there there isn't anything here that you haven't seen already before. Um the material should have arrived in your offices. Um our main uh material is of course this metal panel by Citadel. It's a metallic silver.

Our accent main accent is a high-pressure laminate by Thundermax. It's uh meant to look like limestone. It's named Venus. We have an accent a lower accent high-pressure uh laminate uh by Thundermax, which is patina bronze. And we have moved on with anththerite gray for our storefronts and window frames um to kind of help uh create a contrast and a and a depth in this facade. These materials are all noted and labeled on these colored elevations. Um again uh no change you have seen these. This is a duplicate side. I'm sorry. This is the development of our main entry which has it's made up of a a storefront system. Um we've also elected to um build in another planter as a a supplement to the planter in front of retail um which would be in lie of the freestanding pots that were there before. Um, this wall is back lit um uh uh behind a a clear uh frosted um plastic or acrylic. Um it is also frosted and uh on on the ceiling with continuous LED lights. I think that'll really make a grand front entrance. Um we did tone down the lighting. Um it was a comment from Max a few weeks ago.

Um we adjusted so that it wasn't spilling out onto the walk as much and that is in the document that I sent last week showing that these are the sections along the retail. Um this is um the the front on on college. You can see our storefront is 10t high. Metal panel above. It's recessed a little bit. It recesses a little bit more where the door is so the door doesn't um open onto the sidewalks around the corner. You're seeing the alley condition with that that step. Uh we've got this to approximately 13 ft now. Um to the sopet line. Um we've been developing all the windows uh um and storefronts. Uh window details are progressing. Um this is probably our main window detail where it's set back about an inch from the facade. There's kind of a logic and a purpose for that. A lot of these walls are going to be preassembled offsite and there's a there's a uh magnesium panel that allows us to face fasten um in the factory. It's quite a nice little system I think. But we do have highlight windows where we've set these windows back and this is on college uh a long college where they set back 9 in and the jams slope in. And I can take you back to make under make get you to understand where we have these bronze panels. Those slope in and that's what's creating that 9 in depth I in all of these windows.

The louvers are flush um with the metal skin nice and clean and tight. A lot of coordination to make that happen. Um, and uh that's that's our presentation for tonight. Okay, Chris, thank you very much. Uh, Nick or Charlie, did you want to add anything? Okay. Um, well, let's get some feedback uh for you. Um, Emily, would you like to begin?

Sure. Thank you. Really, the only thing that I wanted to talk about is signage. um if we wanted to talk about it as part of the site plan review because it's kind of a design element as opposed to waiting until a sign package was presented down the road. So, I guess that's really up to the applicant, but it feels like it's much more integrated into this building than some other buildings. Um but otherwise, thank you for all the details. Window details are great. Um I don't have any questions about the rest of the presentation. Okay, great. Emily. Uh Peggy, can I turn to you?

Yeah, thank you for um sharing the materials. Um I think being able to see them in person is so helpful. Um the the high contrast in the the renderings don't really give me the sense of what they're going to look like in person, and I think they're much nicer looking in person than they kind of show up in this rendering. So, I really appreciate that. Um I I could Is there any way to see a closeup of the pattern for the um the liner that you've chosen for the the retaining wall

called California. So it's just uniform throughout. That's what it kind of look almost looks like corrugated metal in a way. Um, is the So, the idea of a mural was it sounded like it was gonna be too much maintenance or

Yeah. Um, it we've never had luck with them. Um, they they and maybe even at best they're somewhat temporal. Um, it's not a condition that what I would really call architecture. Um, but again, I think that that the texture of this wall kind of deters anybody from, you know, spraying graffiti on it. The these ribs are, you know, re deep. I wouldn't say deeply recessed, but recessed enough where you're not getting a good surface um to deface. It's a I like I mean it's an interesting p. It's not offensive. I don't I was just curious um there's any picture of it in real in the real world an actual non-rendered picture. I'd love to see that at some point.

Yeah, I'm sure I have it. Let's see if I can find it. That's a non-rendered photo. A little bit mappy, but I think it's fairly elegant. It has a lot of nice shadow play.

Okay. Thank you very much for for zooming in on that. Um, yeah, I have I don't have anything else to say right now. Thank you very much. Okay, thanks Peggy. Uh, Mitch, turn to you.

Sure. Thanks, Chris. Uh, all looks good to me. Um, since we're on that back wall, just wondering how that how that space is lit, is there an opportunity to do some sconces on that back wall for the bike racks? Well, uh, we had sconces there earlier and we elected to remove that just in the complexity of bringing wiring out to that wall. Um, we do have, um, lighting, down lighting on the rear of the building. H um will which will you know one two three four five fixtures that will illuminate that entire space and there it will you know from that height will flood on that wall. Um and we could render that out if you like. Um

yeah I mean just as long as it's not a dark spot you know at night for people. Yeah, and that's certainly a concern of ours, but um I think our our point of view, our our study leads us to believe that it may just be too much. Um we want to illuminate the path of travel entirely. So, I don't want to remove the lighting that we have on the building. Um putting additional lighting on the rear wall, I think, just might be too much. And then I have to figure out how it works with the formliner. Um

just not sure that it it would be the right approach architecturally. Okay. Um my other question has to do with the windows and the front facade. Do those open any of those?

Yes. Um at at the moment we are showing awnings awnings under every window. Um but we have some exhaust louvers. So I'm going to have to go back through and coordinate which windows have exhaust and make those conditions fixed. But there are from our studies there are very few um and most have in uh have intakes um which will allow we can allow all of these awning windows but this this would be basically all windows that you're seeing in elevation are operable.

So they the bottom the bottom piece um swings out. Yes. from the inside like a little louver that you you rotate and it swing the bottom piece swings out. Yes. And yeah, that was my other question is the the venting for the air conditioning and um heating stuff is that you're saying that some of those would be

Yeah, some of see these small ones I'm pointing to over here. These are exhaust conditions. So, I'm going to have to go back through and either coordinate a different approach and, you know, I'll have to discuss this with the ownership as well, but I'm either going to have to remove the awning and leave the design the way it is or coordinate the louvers to a different location to allow the awnings to remain. But, we have very few of them. I know this row is subject to it. And I know there was also a row in the back. Um I believe it's right in the middle here. Right in the middle. And these are the all the bedrooms. I can tell you this much. All the bedrooms have operable windows. These are the living room spaces. Yeah. Just see that front facade again.

And then could you just could you just clarify where you know we looked at the materials here. We had the samples. Can you just explain again what's Yeah. What's the metal panel? What's the limestone? And what's the the whatever that last one? Just start here. See the the C's and the B's and the A's.

So that corresponds with the key on every page, the A B C, right? And so B panels, this is metallic metal panels all in here. Uh this is A. This is the limestone um uh uh Thundermax um high-pressure laminate. And the kind of terrible looking brown is the what is really a nice patina bronze um Thundermax accent. Yeah.

And then as we go around the building, this is all um metal panel with Thundermax accent below. Metal panel with Thundermax accent below. And the last elevation. Am I missing an elevation? No. Somehow it's out of order. And so on this this is uh facing the campus. This is the north view. This is all metal panel. And that accent um limestone thundermax turns the corner which cloaks our stair tower or accents our te stair tower however you and we found a nice woven metal product for the screen and and that all of those material data sheets are in the um large package that I sent you last week. So that this elevation that the A panel that the one on the far right

that's facing that's facing the north that's facing the university gateway. Yeah. North. So if you're walking down College A you'll see that on the left kind of rising up above the Yes. Um does is that show up in your That's this facade right here. Did that anybody talk about that kind of blankness of that facade? That ever come up?

It has not come up. This is a stair tower. Um, so and it's built on the property line. So, but it it does have open joints, so it's not as blank as it appears here. Um, again, that kind of data is in the material data sheets, but yeah, this these are all open joints. These are rain screens. Quite nice system. So the panels actually kind of float off of the the building. Um there's a um half inch gap between all the panels running vertically and horizontally set to a grid. Um and I think that kind of comes across. Yeah, there there's the grid. Again, there's some thickness to this. Even though this kind of comes across a single line, there's some thickness to this. So there'd be these open gaps, you know, they have depth to them. Um, so it's not as flat I I uh as as these drawings kind of make them look.

Yeah, I hear you. I I just I think you know, ideally that would have some openings and have some light coming in there and um that's going to be pretty blank. Yeah, it is. On college, it's pretty big. Um until that adjacent site is developed, it's going to be blank. So that is that is a stair tower that is built on the property line the pro that you know by code I can't put any windows in that. Um yeah that's by code. What's the reasoning behind that?

Cuz we're you need a fire separation when you're building on the property line. So it's a two-hour rated wall. Um it and it does not allow any openings per uh New York State won't allow any openings on the on the property line. In order to achieve these windows, we had to set back. That's you see how we have windows cuz we have these setbacks with no setback. There are no windows. There are no windows in this in in this wall. But most of that is not viewable above. We set back the facade and are thus able to allow windows at at a 5-ft setback, which this is, you're allowed 25% opening of that wall, which is what we did. We maxed it out any place we could. We maxed out windows. Believe me there. So, even I mean we're looking at the College Town Crossing. The north facade of that building has some inset glass block that's right on the property line. Uh that gives that gives the facade a little bit of relief, but

I can't speak to that, but it is not allowable by code. Perhaps perhaps they built some rated assembly, but I can't speak to it. You know, for the board of Mitch, it may be helpful. Um, so this application here was done at 325 College A, and I was actually up there this week just kind of admiring it. I think it looks great. So, if you're going up college and you look at the south side of the building, it's built up to the south side of the property line. So, it's like a blank wall, but it's got detail. Um, I think it looks I think it looks good.

Okay. Um, and then my last question is, um, if you go back to elevation of the front, the black

the black louvers or or whatever those are that kind of separate the windows. It's the Yeah, that one. Yeah. What What's the material of that? And what are those? So those those would be aluminum. They would match the windows. They would be um um I'm I'm sorry. They would not match the windows. They would be color matched to the adjacent materials. So unfortunately these lines don't do it any justice at all. Um but this would really be kind coated aluminum to match the adjacent surfaces. So, where we're against the Thundermax material, we would um be looking at a a kind of a a cream color that would tie together with the limestone. Um where we were adjacent to the metal panel, it would um uh be kind to match that metallic silver. Really trying to be part of the wall plane. Is

Is everything that's black in this drawing a vent? Yes, it is a louver for air conditioning. Yes, intake and exhaust.

Yeah, just I like them. I really like the the these louvers. I think they match. The color matching is uh better than we've seen in a long time on other buildings. This is a little better. Yeah, they're flat. Like I I know you need it for for er and it's just a necessary evil, but I think you've done a great job to try to mask it and it's almost geometrically playing with the windows. So, I think I I don't mind them at all. Thank you. Yeah, support. Okay. Thanks. That's all I have. Thanks. Thank you, Mitch.

All right. Um, so, uh, just, uh, Chris, one question on the the back to the retaining wall and the California finish there. What, what is that material? Actually, I think you may have said and I missed it. Cast in place concrete. Oh, okay. All right, great. Thank you. Yeah, concrete panel decorative finish. Yeah. All right. Um, I think I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, just trying to do something more than just the, you know, the formed wall. Um, and and and and just thinking about how we could, you know, protect it against van vandalism.

Yeah. I actually I think it works. I think it's it's nice. Um, I think I don't have anything else uh to add. Uh, so what I see is kind of open questions here. signage and maybe I don't know if you guys want to speak to that today or next time. Um, and then also uh maybe Chris, we would come back to the uh uh window exhaust, the louvers and and so forth and kind of see that in more a little more detail when you're I guess you're still working on some of that. And Peggy,

I just I wanted to mention that the um the engineering department, Office of Engineering here, um sent a memo on April 17th about um sidewalk topography and running slope at transitions just to get um some detail. They they're looking for detail. Did you see this? Um we need to send that to you. We'll send that to you. I think there's similar comments from last month, but Yeah, couple things. I just wanted to bring some attention to that. Thanks. Sorry.

So, you'll follow up on that, uh, Peggy's comment. And then, and then, uh, the windows and the venting and so forth. Was there anything else, uh, from board members that you wanted to have follow up on? No, most of my questions were going to be about the parking space, but that's off the table. So, I think streamlines it. Yeah. So, I think that's what you wanted, your intention. Uh, was there anything else you guys wanted to add? I guess I would just say so is the on the signage side. Is it particularly the 309 in the front that you want to see more details on or?

Well, I mean, this is going to be, I guess, a learning process for us because we're starting to not have signage go through zoning just at the planning board. The previous process was get your building site plan approved and come back several months later with a signage package that's been approved by zoning. I think they will do still do a zoning analysis. Is that true for us on size? Yes. And they only went to zoning if they needed that variance. Now they're going to come to you guys for the waiver, but they would always come for Yes. aesthetics. You're right. For the signage. Um and then they do have to apply for a sign permit. So that depends on when they're ready to do that as well. So maybe but but I think it's I mean it's a great idea to

start looking at it if you wanted to. I mean, it feels like a feature on the first floor for both the retail and the residential part. Um, it was just a suggestion, but you know, if you want to bring it back later, that's fine because Megan would still have to do a size analysis, right?

Um, yes, the building's doing it as well with the sign permit, but I think anytime that you want, if you saw it now, that'd be great, too. If they were ready and wanted to present it to you, I think that's great. Great idea. So, I mean, we would look at size, we would look at illumination, um, I guess character with the building, which the 309 fills in character, and I think it's the other one's a placeholder to be TBD until you have a tenant. So, maybe we need to wait for that. Curious what other board members think. Maggie Mitch, it'd be good to uh address the signage earlier rather than later because some of our experiences in the uh past have been when it's later it it there's a lot of friction around it.

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. I think we can probably put some stuff together on the 309 for sure. Um we are still sorting out the retail tenant, so I don't know that we'll be prepared to do that. Um, but let us circle up and and come up with some information and get it to you. Um, my other question would be, so I've been talking to the building department about kind of our pro the timing of this process in relation to a potential June 30 energy code supplement adoption, etc. So, I think as of right now, the schedule or Sam, we exchanged emails. I think we're targeting seeker next month and then preliminary and final the following month. Um, which I think Rob's told me he's comfortable if we get preliminary and final and we submit our full building permit package the next day, we're okay. Um, but obviously that doesn't afford us any hiccups here because if we get delayed by a month, we're in trouble. And so I guess my question would be you know where we stand today and I think we've basically gone through we've got some feedback some things you guys want to see but is there any other feedback about things you guys need to see want to see to make sure that we stay on progress and is there an opportunity I mean could we try to do seeker and preliminary next month and then see if there's anything just to check off final the following we're just trying to make sure that we do whatever we need to do to give you guys what you need to make sure we hit the mark because it the implications I mean this is designed to the existing code and it would be a huge problem for us if for some reason we lost a month in this process and I just I mean you guys have to do your your jobs and your roles but I just want to make sure we know exactly what we need to give you to stay on track.

I don't want to speak for the board but it feels as though you're on track like from the comments that I'm hearing from everybody feels like you are. Um, one comment that I was going to make or just question is if there are any just thinking about the thief too, but for pedestrians, are there any amenities such as benches, such as seating areas for pedestrians? And I know maybe that walkway you just want to be a walkway, but to me it still looks a little sterile. I love the corrugated wall, the California wall at the end, but just that throughway just seems like, and maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's you just want to answer that it's a three-way, but before you had shown some benches, you know, some amenities. So, that was a question that I had. I don't know if board members agree or not, but good question.

I think we're open to a lot of different things there. I think what we're showing right now is the result of communication with our neighbor and trying to make sure that, you know, we were balancing their thoughts, concerns with what we were doing, what feedback you guys were giving us. And there was a lot of concern about congestion in the alley and like at one point we had a planter box with like some seating around it that got taken away in favor of pushing the bike racks against the wall and and so I think as of right now there is no intention to put anything there but I I mean I think we're certainly open to doing whatever we can to improve it if we get feedback and if our neighbor agrees with us.

Uh is there feedback on that point from the other members of the board? Any feelings about that? That good point. Yeah. Whatever can be done to make it more community amenity would be great. Support that. Yeah, Peggy. Um I there are there are some amendy like seat seating. There's some seating um on the property next door, right? Don't they have some already? Is it an internal? There's an internal internal. Yeah. Not not external.

Because I don't I'm not really I know what you're saying. And um I think the the idea is that this is a a throughb block crossing and that that's the really important part of it is that this there's this is a very long block and there needs to be this connection between college app and Lynden and um so I think my from my point of view if you didn't add anything it wouldn't change my my interest or approval or whatever for this um if you did and it and it worked and it looked good and um that would also be lovely, but I don't I don't have a real um hard a hard need for that.

Would it be reasonable for you to bring us a couple of ideas of things that might work and that might be amenable to your neighbor? I mean, that that's a hangup. I think we can certainly talk to our neighbor and and express that there's a desire for us to explore something and see if between now and then we can come up with some options. I'm certainly open to that. That sounds good. I mean, it's not a dealbreaker for me either. I think the way it Peggy was was well said like the way it is, it's a thorough fair without benches is fine. If you can add more it's it's a plus but I don't think it's a deal breaker to know dealb breaker for you. Okay. So that gives you any sense.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Anything else from board? Anything Charlie? I was just curious. So procedurally is it possible to do seeker and preliminary in the same meeting? tend not to the NEG deck is, you know, because that's you're announcing that it's now okay to move on to site plan approval, but it definitely is preliminary and final and we do that often. Um, yeah, if that makes sense.

I think you're in pretty good shape. So, we'll continue on and hear from you next next month and you have clarity about kind of what we're looking for, a couple extra things. All right, sounds good. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Yeah. All right. Um, so moving on. Uh, Lisa, do you have some uh uh report for us?

Sure, I do. Um, you probably have heard that we were awarded the downtown revitalization initiative grant, which is a we're very excited about this. We have applied eight times um and always had a strong application I feel but we were awarded it this year. Uh we just found out a few days ago the focus of although the commons is in the boundary area. The focus is really West State Street and revitalizing West State Street. Um it's a $10 million award and the money is used to leverage private uh investment. So it will provide additional funding and funding gaps to um leverage projects. So there'll be about a six to eightmonth planning process and at the end of that planning process there will be a strategic um economic development initiative plan and pretty soon actually there'll be a call for projects very shortly and those the projects will be reviewed over time and then they'll the ones that will are selected to be awarded uh part of this 10 million will be uh will be in the strategic plan. So, we're very excited about that. And one of the things that is so exciting, I think, is that we can spend we know we can spend this money and leverage this money from many other tens and tens of millions of dollars. So,

uh Lisa, can I ask uh who will do the strategic planning and and how will that be done? Great question. So the state we've already met with um a representative at the department of state and they select they've already selected for us a consultant team that will develop the run the whole planning process and uh develop the plan wi with under the consultation of a um local um a local um committee that hasn't that will be selected. We've just received the requirements for who needs to be on that. And there will be public out public participation um opportunities.

Yes, I think I remember seeing some uh projects as a idea at the beginning to vote on or yes I recall seeing that's exactly right

those exactly right Mitch the the process for applying is basically like a mini a little mirror of what will happen if you get awarded. So you make a call for projects and people in the application process people um break people submit their projects and then there's a public process by which projects are evaluated and a certain amount of a certain selection of projects go into the application. It is always understood and we're very try to be very clear with this with people who apply that doesn't necessarily mean that if you get funding you will be awarded funding but it's the application is to demonstrate that there is interest and um ability for the community to leverage these these funds. So, we had some great projects and you know if the timing works for those projects and they get selected that would be great like uh the INHS uh housing project housing and daycare project was one of them we don't I'm if if the timing works for them I'm sure they will submit to be part of the uh award for instance So

any other questions or comments from folks for Lisa?

You know, is it part of the purview of the board to have input on this and kind of the project selected and the where things are happening? So that's a really good question and um I haven't reviewed the the the list of people the the the committee will be 10 to 15 people. I don't know if a planning board member is designated to be on it but I will let you know and if not of course you as a board can make recommendations um to council you can make recommendations to the committee. You will of course be um involved with site plan review for any project that does move forward and you can participate in um the public process. There will be multiple opportunities for the public to weigh in on which projects to select. Anything else to report, Lisa?

I don't have anything else. That's exciting. That was a lot for this week. Yeah, that's a big big deal. Um well we'll keep our eyes on that because maybe we'll have chance of more input. Um so I think the next item uh on the uh agenda was the p presentation we're gonna all ears. All right. I'm just going to join. I'm just uh joining.

That's a very good reminder Sam. We do appreciate that. No please. It says starting. What is happening? Okay. All right. Thank you. Um because uh because you'll be making a recommendation or you have the opportunity to make a recommendation to council on the expansion of the PUB boundary citywide. And because you will be seeing um some PUDS this year most likely or in the next 12 months, I thought it would be helpful for you to have an overview of what a PUD is, what the process is, how the planning board is involved in it. Um and have an opportunity to ask any questions and also so you know you can make a more informed decision about your recommendation if the more you know about uh the PUD. So, let's see where pull up a presentation.

So, this is a presentation that I gave to council. So, it's it's kind of geared it's geared towards them, but we can just I can talk about the planning how the planning board can be involved. There are so many things on my screen. It's hard to see. Excuse me. And I cannot I don't want to be host. I need to get back here to Present.

Oh, perfect. Yes. Thank you.

All right. Planned unit developments. So, this was prepared for common council. I did give this presentation to them last February in anticipation of them receiving a few puds. Things have been a little bit delayed, but now we have this new proposal for expanding the PUD. um overlay district citywide or basically removing the overlay district and just making puds allowable citywide. So, it's a good time. So, this the presentation talks about what is a PUD, what are the criteria for establishing a PUD, council's role, and we'll talk about planning board's role and what the process and timeline of the of a PUD is. And so a pud is is a new zone or zones because often puds have multiple zones in them that allow creative use of land than is currently more creative use that is currently allowed by zoning. It and and really important is and the fundamental part of a pud is it has to have long-term permanent community benefits. Um different projects come in with different community benefits and it is council's job to decide what um if these benefits merit um consideration of a PUD has to be compatible with the comprehensive plan which is very important because I think sometimes people feel that a pud is gives a developer an opportunity to just rewrite everything in zoning but they they can ask for certain things but it has to be compatible with the comp plan. So, for instance, you couldn't put a factory in the middle of a lower density residential zone and protect the health and welfare of the community. Um, which is a kind of a standard catch-all that gives a council kind of broad a broad purview to look at u the merits of the putt. And one thing that although it is zoning,

one thing that's really important and you know this because you've experienced it, a putt is for a specific project. So Southworks probably being the exception to that because they didn't have the whole project planned and we'll talk about that later. But all the other PUDs that you have seen, you've seen them in site plan review and that is part of the PUD process to go through site plan review and it's for a specific project. So although new zoning is proposed, it is you see what the proposal is as a project. Now the zoning goes with the land. So in years ahead of course that can it can change as long as it's consistent with the pud, but you are looking at a specific project. You might not need a zoning refresher, but I will go through this anyways. As you know, zoning is a tool to implement community plans. It's one of many, many tools, and it doesn't do the whole job, but what it does do is target areas for growth um and change and preservation. It dictates the size, scale, and density of development, dictates what uses are allowed, and includes other requirements such as parking and architectural elements. This is a part of our zoning map that is um Bell Sherman and um Bell Sherman and College Town. And usually in zoning maps, the yellow is a lower density and the red is higher density. Just to this is um a this is a page from our college town residential hybrid. It's a hybrid dis district that does talk about size and scale and height and you can see that on the left. How tall can the building be? What does the setback have to be? But it also talks about zoning can get into the detail of like what are the what activation does the building have to have? What does the articulation? What are the doorways have to look like? What or does it have to

have a porch? How long can the facade be? And so we now have two zones. We're going through a zoning rewrite as you know, but we have two zones, College Town and Southside that have these articulation standards um in them. So, it's not only size and height, but also some art um some design features. So, many people think, well, if if a developer wants to do something that's not allowed by zoning, why don't they get a variance? So there's a really big difference between a variance and a PUD. So a variance is um granted by the board of zoning appeals and it grants relief for very specific requirements or allowed uses. So as you know because you've seen these it's you know setbacks or lot coverage. it's a specific project that that needs a little more lot coverage than is allowed or a little smaller setback than is allowed. Um and they go to the board of zoning appeals and they get a variance. They sometimes as you know projects can have more than one variance. We have seen that and so for it's for area requirements or uses. So, as didn't mention this before, but as you probably know, zoning also dictates what uses can be located in which zone. And there is an opportunity to get a use variance, although they are hard harder to get, and we don't see very many of those. And the board of zoning appeals really makes their decision about whether or not to grant a variance on a really narrow set of binding criteria that are that are predetermined for them. So they have to really among other things weigh does the benefit to the applicant outweigh the benefit the the detriment to the neighborhood. So it's very constrained um and there is absolutely no council

involvement just like the planning board. The board of zoning appeals is a independent board, a quasi judicial independent board that is, you know, council has has delegated the authority to to implement the zoning code to them just like they delegate the authority to implement the site plan review and subdivision ordinance to you. So, putt is different because it is creates new zones. So, it doesn't ask for relief from from the requirements of a particular zone. It creates a new zone or new zones and it is adopted by common council and becomes part of the zoning code. And again, it's for a specific project. In determining whether or not to grant a PUD, it's based on a very broad criteria um that's described in our city code and a really evaluation of the benefit, the long-term community benefits that the project has. and council is not bound by a narrow set of criteria. So they can they have the sole discretion to approve or deny a put and they can ask for additional things. Um when Southworks for instance we'll we'll talk about this but when Southworks was going through you know there was a lot of discussion they did not come through with a particular zone that was different um for the edges of the property that were against the neighborhood but during the zone during the process of creating the pud common council asked for lots of information and visualizations about the size of the buildings in relation to the neighborhood and and they created a new zone a new requirements along the buffered edge. So, council has the ability to ask for to deny it completely or to ask for additional things in the zoning. As you can see, it is not I'm not going to say it's risky for the developer because I

feel that we work with the developer before they come into council to make sure that they have a an application of merit, but it is certainly more timeconuming and slightly more risky than just um doing a project by right or getting a few variances. So this is the map of where puds are currently allowed and over time that has expanded. Um it started just in the downtown area and then it expanded to the waterfront zones after the waterfront was reszoned and college town. So this is where they're current. And then at the base of West Hill, we also added um zones recently. The red stars are where since we've had this legislation, we've had uh four PUDs come through. Three of them have been built or are in the process of being built or they're the red stars. And the gray star is one that you may remember Cliff Street that expired. PUDS just like other like a site plan approval. If it doesn't happen within two years, it expires. If there's no significant development on the site, it expires. So the the current proposal is to is to remove this overlay zone and just allow puds citywide. And the reason part of the reason for the proposal oh you I think when we first started looking at having puds at all the original idea was to have them citywide but of course it was a new initiative and people were concerned that there would be incompatible projects and so we restricted it to certain zones. I think over time we've learned in working through these

projects that again seeing how they have to be in conformance with zoning with the comprehensive plan and have other benefits uh there isn't as much concern that this will be a problem. It also the other reason to look at the expansion now is because um there is although we're in the process of the zoning rewrite in the interim this could provide an opportunity for people to do slightly different things as long as they were compatible with um the comprehensive plan as we undertake the zoning grant which will take you know a year to 18 months to complete. So again, community benefits are not something that the planning board has any authority over, but you certainly can uh you certainly could recommend to council. Um if you have uh opinions about community benefits, but the long-term, this is just these are some examples of long-term community benefits. reduces traffic, greater quality and quantity of public and private open space, community recreational um amenities, h particular kinds of housing types. Um, and this is just a beginning list and council can accept many other community benefits. And in fact, I'm going to go through the community benefits of the projects that are PUDS. And they don't hit many of these. They hit some of these things. Um, but you a developer could get very creative about what the community benefit is. But the important thing is is that it has to be permanent and it has to be measurable. So this is I'll take you through three puds and what the community benefits were and what they were asking for in terms of zone. So this was founders way which was formerly called the Immaculate

Conception site. So, if you were to look in our um you should look for the zoning on this, it would be called the Immaculate Conception zoning. Um which is kind of fun. But this is a bird's eye view of the of the whole site. And um BJM public school is on the far right. Um they had uh they wanted to reszone the the they had two or three zones on this property and they wanted to reszone it because they wanted a higher density. They wanted um increased height for the larger L-shaped building that combined that that building combined an existing school building and then it built a new building on it. And they also had some setback issues with um there's a gym in the back. um and they had some setback issues with that. So, they wanted to um change the setbacks. They also wanted to have a lot less parking than was required. So, it was a suite of um of of zoning changes or but none of them very drastic, but the long-term community benefits were quite significant. So, adaptive reuse of buildings for housing and nonprofit services, sale of the gymnasium to GIAK and um permanently affordable for sale and rental housing close to school and urban core. And you know, we are so lucky to have um a well INHS and Habitat building affordable forale housing. It's a huge community benefit. So this is a great example of how sometimes the community benefit is just baked into the project. Kaunga Park, which um is was also formerly Carpenter Park. Um, this was they now they had an interesting situation because they didn't need that many variances,

but the zoning for the waterfront had had pretty recently been adopted. So, coming in for a couple stories and or a few setbacks was not going to be was going to be difficult for the BCA because the zoning had just been adopted. So, we recommended that they do a PUD and they had um community benefit sort of baked into the project, but the main community benefit we got out of this was a permanent home for the Ithaca Community Gardens. They have been located here, and you could see on the site plan where they ended up. They've been located on this site for a long time. It was city-owned site. They they leased the property from the city, but this project allowed them to actually control the site and have uh a long-term situation and the the developer actually made improvements to the community gardens. So, it really created security for the community gardens, which everybody agreed was a long-term benefit. Uh they had access to Route 13. So, as you know, we we are have an idea, well, it's more than an idea now. It's a a design to turn that part of Route 13 into more of an urban boulevard. And this was a piece of it to start having um direct access to Route 13 from sites. Um and the, you know, having a medical facility within the city limits. We got two at that time because it was Guthri and this one, but that was really important to the community to have a medical facility downtown and um it generated jobs. So we had this great uh marriage of jobs and housing on the same site and they were had 20% affordable units which were the first project that was built if you recall a market view uh right across from Aldi and they had to come back because um I one of their community benefits they

weren't able to do and um they had to go back to council to negotiate that and of course Southworks which was formerly Chain Works. Everybody changes their name and you will be seeing several you'll be seeing over the next few years thankfully you know several projects from Southworks but this was our first one of the first puds to come through and at the time that it came through it was zoned industrial so you couldn't do anything that they wanted to do on this site um you wouldn't be allowed to do housing and mixed use it was just industrial and obviously the Community benefits for this were huge. Um, environmental remediation, conversion of an industrial site into a mixeduse neighborhood, and as you probably remember, there's a lot of open space and trails on the site. So, again, you'll be seeing your first one really soon. Um, your first Yeah, your first project. Now, this was we had to do an a generic environmental assessment for this project and they didn't know what the whole thing was going to look like. So this was for a specific project in the sense that um we know what the density of the project is going to be um and we know what the general um idea is going to be and we know the general layout but there had to be more of a it was a more open-ended um where is everything going to be and exactly what it's going to look like. So for this project with the zoning they had to develop design guidelines that said okay in this zone the buildings should um look something like this and the streets should they develop design guidelines for all of the streets what the streets cross-sections would be and what they would include and um so so to

create some um some consistency within the project. So when you are reviewing the new the projects that come through we'll be looking at those design guidelines and so will you to make sure that the projects conform with the design guidelines who had to create those common council did uh the consultant um

oh they did engineers uh created the or the developer created the zoning and the design guidelines. So again, I I made this for council and my the purpose was to show them what the control they had over it. But it is the process is um it doesn't have to take a long time. It really depends on the u on the size of the project. But the general process is that council evaluates a proposal and even before they do that, staff has been working with them for maybe months to um go over what we understand would be um attractive community benefits to council members. We usually uh meet with the alder people for the ward that the project is in to see if there is political will to undertake this. Um and so by the time it hits council as an application, we feel confident that it has a very good chance of being um received favorably. So if C council evaluates the proposal and then they have a public information session um in which the whole you know the property is posted much like what you do with public hearings except there's no this isn't a public hearing and um we take the comments from that and council goes back to council and if they feel comfortable with it they grant like a conceptual approval which allows the project because remember it's almost always for a specific design it goes goes to planning board for site plan review. So planning board becomes the lead agency for the environmental review of both the site plan and the zoning. And then um after site plan review is complete or environmental review is complete, it can go back to C common council for putt approval. Um, and the

way our legislation is written, uh, if it's a multi-phase project, at least one phase of the project has to receive final site plan approval for the PUD to be adopted. And throughout the process, there's opportunities for public input with public information session, public hearing, public comment. All right, these are just more detailed steps that are more pertaining to common council and things that common council has to consider. But for the planning board and you know again that the important thing I think is the adoption of PUD is at the sole discretion of common council. planning board has discretion over the design of it and the design of it is reflected in the zoning and just like you will if you choose to you'll make a recommendation about this PUD expansion you would also make a recommendation to them about the proposed zoning but you would have been quite involved with it because you would have gone it would have gone through environmental review with you um so that is HUD in sort of a nutshell Um, you have any questions?

Hey, thanks Lisa. Um, so board members questions. Are there any downsides? It seems like we should have it across the city. I feel like there our professional opinion is that there there are enough protections in place and this isn't an easy process. you know, there are enough protections in place and enough um criteria that it seems like it would be a great thing to have citywide.

I have a question. Um so the um you the PUD has to be compatible with a comprehensive plan and also provide community benefits.

Yes. So where does the um uh evaluation or the alignment of that put with those where does that happen in the process? So that h I mean the application that they submit has to outline their community benefits and demonstrate how it's comply complies with the comprehensive plan and just as we do with other kinds other development projects we'll often work with the applicant to give feedback to them about these this we we would give a we would give our evaluation to council about certainly if it met the the uh comprehensive plan goals. So would u just so I understand it. So they so they they would work with staff and developing this and and and you know and and uh you would give feedback about the alignment with the comprehensive plan and so forth and then finally that would have to be u the council common council would vote on that right

they would right common council would vote common council votes I mean as we do with any developer we give our feedback and guidance they don't have to necessarily take it I mean a p a a developer is uh allowed to bring any project forward um to you to common counsel but I think again because of the complexity of the PUD process it's in their benefit to meet with the alder people from that ward listen to staff feedback um and and kind of be responsive to it

but we would help council if they had questions evaluate whether it was um consistent with the comprehensive plan So that would be kind of a process. And so if if it came to to us for site plan, sorry Mitch, uh if it came to us for um site plan review, then all of this compatibility that I'm asking about would already that would already have been vetted, but of course you also look at if a project is compatible with the comprehensive plan. See, uh same same question as Max's, but about neighborhood framework plans, college town guidelines, downtown plan that's happening. Like how does this those are comprehensive plans?

Those are all Yeah, they're they're Yes. Yes. Even the neighborhood plans. Yes. They're part of the bigger comprehensive plan. Yes. Um Okay. So if the pud the concept of of expanding the pud if it why are we bothering with the zoning rewrite if this is sort of

I'm not I'm I'm no wondering if it's if this can answer all of our problems right if this can say you know this can be as um can deal with these these redevelop sites. It can deal with infill. It can it requires community benefit. Why why would why do we need a zoning structure like a uklitian zoning in the first place?

That's a very interesting question. So if every project had to be zoned specifically for that project, it would be incredibly time consuming and it would be hard to keep consistency. I mean the goal of the zoning rewrite is to modernize the zoning to reduce the number well I don't know if you yeah to reduce the number of zones we have to make it easier to use and to achieve more of our goals or remove barriers for certain goals like so that still provides the framework for it. There's there are still um and so some some zones will change, but the PUD allows even if we have a zoning rewrite and we keep and we keep the PUD um it still allows people to go outside of zoning for very particular special projects. And in terms of so when I when I think about that when I was pretty I learned about this when I was in school and like you know these have been around for a really long time and they're very it's a very suburban sort of tool originally right to like deal with the suburbs and um and I think about like infill projects and so uh founders way which I was involved in as a you know I think it's a good project and um there were a lot of you like you said, it was baked in. The benefit was baked in. And um but something smaller like a small infill project, you know, a house burns down and there's a vacant lot and like somebody decides they want to build a sevenstory building and you know, I mean, that seems like something common council would would absolutely want to have happen. And I wonder what how would a community benefit? This is just something I'm thinking about like how how can a community benefit

get baked into a project like that where it's, you know, it's a small lot and a small infill lot and um there are not going to be opportunities for public space or um you know space for for um nonprofits or something like that. And so I mean I think it gets to my my question about what the need for a whole city pud um just getting rid of the overlay zone like what what is the where the overlay zone is now? It's all of these areas that need to be redeveloped. there's a lot of opportunity in those spaces and um so I'm it's just something that I'm like I guess I don't understand the push for it at this point from common council and I'm not on one side or the other. I'm just not clear why they're pushing for it now.

I'll try to answer going back to you know your your first example of a small infill site where a house burned down. I mean we haven't ever seen a putt. I mean, we've only seen we've had this legislation for over 10 years. We have seen four successful PUD applications. It's not a small undertaking. So, usually a um an applicant would not undertake this for a small project. Um and your second comment about, you know, small house burns down, then somebody wants to build a sevenstory building, that would not be compatible likely with comprehensive plan. So, that would be a guard rail there. Um um and you know even though council does have a broad purview to look at community benefits, they have to be long-term community benefits. So um it would be challenging to in that scenario that you gave to have community benefits in that you know way. And I will say that there are even so there are areas and I could name them um within the rest of the city that would be great places for PUDS. You know there's a for instance I mean there's there are areas of South Hill that would be great for PUDS. Um and there are yeah there are areas that would be really favorable to them. So, it just it it takes I think it takes away like you know just having to it just opens the possibility up for sites that may not be on our radar or sites that we know are are possible. Um in fact, we have a couple people talking to us about projects that they're interested in if this goes through that seem very compatible.

Right. Okay. Does that answer your question? I think so. I wouldn't say this is a panacea because it's not it's not an easy process,

right? And it's expensive and it they it requires more than sort of buying some land and saying, "Yes, I'd like to try this." Um, and I'm just trying to I'm trying to understand why we're doing this comprehensive plan. All the things that I mean, I'm sorry, the zoning the zoning um rewrite, all of the things that we want, you know, theoretically will be in the zoning rewrite, all of the green space and the the requirements for potentially, you know, the kinds of housing we're looking for. Um and then and it's you know maybe it's a year 18 months down the line like why council is pushing for it. I just that's all I know you don't know you can't read their minds but

no go ahead. I I feel like maybe the the PUD addresses what we've been trying to address here saying how do we incentivize sustainability? How do we incentivize more open space on some of these sites? Even if we rewrite the zoning, maybe it doesn't cover all those things, but this community benefit, right? It feels like that's it's for the 10% of projects that are large enough have the budget to do it. Feel like the zoning rewrite will take care of 90%. I'm just whatever a large percentage and the PUD is a great incentive for those other doesn't quite fit in the box. Do you think that's right? And yeah, I would say so benefit

also in that while we're waiting for the zoning rewrite, it could potentially allow

um more innovative zoning to happen on a site should somebody come forward with a PUD. So I have kind of a a detailed question about that is so I completely understand why we're we would have this extended to the entire city while a zoning rewrite is underway because it really gives an avenue for moving ahead with projects while we're waiting for this bigger rewrite to happen which is going to take some time. That part's clear to me. What I'm just not completely clear about is kind of the pud uh opportunity being extended to the entire city. What's the time frame for that? Is that a permanent change or is it something that's time delimited?

The proposal right now is not for a particular for it to end. Um, but that certainly could happen if council wanted to draw back the boundaries. It's the the proposal is for a permanent citywide ability to have a pie.

Can you go back to your map with the stars? That's so fantastic. I mean, I feel like it should be everywhere because, right, like look, there's so many places that it already exists and we've only seen four. Yeah. Why not extend it everywhere and just make it an option for all locations to have the super zoning with extra benefit? Well, Cornell, how would it it would be on Cornell's campus, too? Question I had.

How does it is that any different? They would still have community benefit. Maybe that's no different, right? I mean, the zoning in the U Yeah, the zoning in Cornell and the the U1 area around Cornell's pretty liberal already. That's true. That's true. So, the guardrail is sighting. Yeah. Yeah. But that would Yeah. I mean they would we would be the guard rail. Yes. Yeah.

So can I come back to the uh relationship between this and kind of the zoning rewrite and so the zoning rewrite will be something that we we know this is a process that the city's and then council group the zoning guidelines so forth and so on. So we know what those guidelines are with the puds that as I understand it and I may be wrong. Right. The puds the um the developer is developing and proposing the zoning guidelines for their site. Yes.

For their site. And so how is there any concern about the alignment of those developer proposed guidelines with let's say the new zoning guidelines that we have?

Yes. Yeah, I can talk to that. Um so zoning as I mentioned at the beginning is just one of many tools to implement the goals of the comprehensive plan. So um and zoning even the new zoning we're not we don't need to change the comprehensive plan to achieve new zoning. The comprehensive plan already accounts for increased density and some of the things that could happen under the um new zoning. So, um, the zoning, everything kind of goes back to having to comply with the community's plan. So, puds have to and the new zoning has to. So, that would be, you know, where alignment

where alignment happens. That would be how I would explain it. Yeah. Makes sense. Um, I I have all these questions. Yeah, please. No. Um so uh one one thing I I think we need to know is uh the timing for uh the uh consideration this by council. I mean what when is the anticipated uh approval? Council is scheduled to vote on this at their May 6 and it's

that's next week. That's next week. Yeah. And I think that you you probably got the distribution that explained the proposal to you and everything and maybe we could have brought it to the March meeting, but um we're bringing it to the April meeting to give you an opportunity to u to comment on it if you want. I mean I I think you know the the PUDS that have been um completed to this point have been pretty unique sites in terms of their contexts and terms of proximity to neighbors um size of those sites and they all make a lot of sense and I can understand why they um happened and I'm just curious if you know there's any concerned about opening this up citywide towards more kind of controversial projects where a developer is seeking more density than the comp plan suggests or the neighborhood framework suggests and there's push back and it's very close to neighbors that have concerns about these kinds of developments. So, I'm kind of just trying to understand it from a community impact perspective, what, you know, looking ahead and anticipating some of those kind of like touch points that might be a little more sensitive. Um, and the negotiation of the long-term community benefit, which seems to be like the sp, you know, the

grayest place, and and whether some of those long-term community benefits could just be requirements upfront, you know, that there's green infrastructure that is required or a certain percentage of affordable housing that is required of a PUD. that's non-negotiable and and that any developer that comes forward has to abide by those things that are already mandated. Is that

Yeah, it's I mean it's up to council to evaluate the community benefits that certainly something that you could uh recommend to them if you have specific ideas about community benefits they should focus on. We know common council in general is very focused on housing, but if you have other community benefits you feel like are very important. Um you could certainly um suggest that to them. In terms of the I mean I think this is what this has what has always come up with expanding it um citywide when we first presented the idea of having a putt. I think that was the that the concern was that it would create incompatible uses or uses next to um neighbor controversial uses next to other I I think that I again because of the this is my opinion because I haven't seen it work in a different way but again there's a certain risk to a developer to undertake this project process and if there were serious neighborhood concerns I would think that would be for them a very sobering um factor that they had to take into consideration of they want to undertake this this process I would think because it is more involved it's like it's a resoning and any resoning would have that very um serious neighborhood engagement if there were opposition to it that's

and I'd further and more guard rails coming to planning board. Planning board. If you if you see that it's, you know, there's no green, of course, you guys would push for this or that, right? Exactly. Yeah. Where it's located and there's that two layers of um it has to be in compliance with the comprehensive fun, but you have to make sure think your the projects that come through are in compliance with the comprehensive plan, too, or the zoning, you know, you so there's kind of two layers.

So, let me ask a what if kind of thing. So, yeah, green, we've talked a lot about green green space and so forth. And so, if the developer um proposes a pud and um say it has very little green space, goes to city council, but city council is very interested in having that pud move forward and u they approve it and it comes to us and it's got no green space, but the guidelines are already in place. Those are the guidelines the the developer has put in place. Do we really have any say at that?

Yes. Because remember when when the council when common council Let me see. When common council approves it at the beginning, it's a conceptual approval. They haven't fleshed out. Yes, they're bringing forward a proposal, but it's like a sketch plan. They haven't fleshed out all the details yet. um we agree with this concept to build x and such, you know, 100 units of housing with, you know, they'll they'll propose their zoning, but it can change during the process.

Um and it can change during, you know, due to things that happen during site plan approval as well. So, I mean, I was here, we were here for Ka Park. Yes. Site plan review and Immaculate Conception site, right? I feel like it felt like any other project where there was still negotiation and we got it very sketchy and saw it all the way through. So, um feel like with those two projects there was a level of comfort with how much influence we had over it and we were excited about that too. Right.

That was the community benefit. Yeah. I I support this. I think it's a great additional tool. It's not that it cancels out any other tools. I think it's an additional tool to get more community benefit. Good. That's I wanted to ask that. Thanks. That's very forthright. Um let me go around Mitch. What What are your feelings about this? Yeah. No, I agree with what Emily just said. That was just well put. It's another tool. I don't think it's a panacea, but I think it's a good mechanism to develop some of these really unique sites uh in the city. So, be interesting to see where it goes. Why Why didn't the Cliff Street POD work out? What was the Why did that one fail? Um, financial reasons.

Yeah, I know. It was going to be such a great Yeah. Yeah.

Um, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not I I'm conflicted about it. I I think the overlay zone is makes a lot of sense. And um I support the concept of this. Um just not sure about expanding it citywide. Like I don't I really seriously don't understand all of the implications of it yet. And um I'm sorry all the implications of it yet. And I don't know if I support it citywide. I'm not ready to make to say yes or no. Well, I wonder if there's something in between where there could be a recommendation from us to common council of we support this until the zoning rewrite is made and then we would love for them to re-evaluate it and then either readopt it.

That's exactly where I'm at. I I think that would be we could make a recommendation like that and may maybe the recommendation would be to come and re revisit uh once the zoning it would have to be renewed. I'm very comfortable with that. Yeah. Right. And then you could comfortable with that. You could have 18 months. Maybe there'd be no PUDS that come up in that time, but if there do if there are, you could sort of evaluate how it went and that would give a good feeling of like how how this look like what this looks like for developers and I'm also very interested in how the how they interface with common council on this because there is I am curious about

start going to Google council meetings. go back to the council meetings. Um just how you know bringing a project to common council and there's it's a new council it's different people um but there's always an interest in supporting housing development and if that's not what shows up just kind of I'm just really I I'm very comfortable with that that approach.

So you know my thinking would be that I'm kind of pushing this this way. Sorry guys. push back if you but you know the the idea would be you know whereas the uh the zoning rewrite is underway. Uh whereas the city wants to continue to uh promote development uh whereas the city wants to promote uh development that's consistent with the comprehensive uh plan and and uh with community benefits that we uh would be supportive of um the extending the HUDs citywide uh until the zoning rewrite is complete. and that at that point there should be a reconsideration the citywide um designation of or or uh permission of putts um something to that effect

with the option to extend exactly yeah the full city exactly right yeah are you getting all that yes I mean you can say it in any way you want yeah you given oh that were like yeah some people people supported this other people had these concerns. You know, your your recommendation doesn't have to be exactly yes or no. I love the compromise that you came to, but you could even say, you know, some people support it, some people wanted it to be limited to, you know, a reconsideration after. I think that would be very useful for them.

Can use my name as full support if you want. I love the idea of extra community benefits. It's um Yeah. Great. Does that sound right then? Some members supported it fully. Some peop some members would like reevaluate. Yeah, support it until the zoning right is Oh, so you're saying you're going to support it fully forever. Yeah, I think I would I I like the compromise as well, but I I think I'm on the side of the compromise because I like to opportunities to re-evaluate things along the way because I I'm not convinced anything works perfectly.

Kind of forces you to evaluate it. I feel like common council could always repeal it if it's not working, but at least with this interim 18month timeline, it kind of forces everybody to look at it or suggest that they look at it again. I feel it's really important for any uh policy to have a set time that where there's a explicit expectation that it be re-evaluated and I mean that's kind of just my feeling about it. Okay. So when I write the recommendation, do you want me to say both of those points of views? like some fully support it or and some say, you know, reevaluate or where do you want to?

Well, you know, I I feel like it would be better if we were unified and making a recommendation. I mean, a wishy-washy one, I think, is not the best. So, let's let's reevaluate. Let's say full support for re-evaluating when the zoning rewrite is Okay, I would be I would be comfortable. Mitch, I'll go I'll go along with that. But I mean, my intuition is the is the former that and you can sue those. You don't need if you want to. I'm not too worried about what's going to happen if you know the boundary expands. There's been four projects in a decade

out of how many? Dozens and dozens of projects. And I think the ones we've seen have been really, really good projects. And I think there are a lot of guard rails. And I think there's potentially some great long-term community benefit involved with this. So, I'm not worried about it. I And but I will go along with the compromise. I think that's fine, too. Um, seems to make sense. Okay. Thank you. I'm with you.

Okay. So, can we do that? That will then we'll have at least a unified uh voice. I mean, it's a supportive voice moving forward. So, okay. Uh do we do we have to do anything formal about that? Uh votewise or nope. I can write a recommendation circulate it maybe. Okay. Good. Everybody okay with it? Sounds good. Good. All right. Um one other do we want to get uh input from the board members who aren't here tonight? Yeah, that sounds great. mention what I um I will very quickly

ASAP and circulate it to everybody and ask for comments. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks both of you for that. So that's good. All right. Uh we'll close the discussion on that. That was very interesting. Very thank you for the presentation and thanks for being uh so forthcoming with all the answer questions. So, um, Emily, we are, uh, uh, very interested to see where, uh, what happened with the zoning, uh, rewrite advisory board. And could you give us a little report?

Sure. Um, so today was a great meeting. Today, uh, was very active. Everybody was contributing. Um, Sam did a great presentation on how, um, the flood, the new flood mapping affects building and zoning. Um maybe you could give that to us sometime. Yes.

Um it really talks about birming how we are seeing these buildings that have to be bmed up or floodgates or how it really affects all the design decisions developers are bringing to us. Um we also reviewed um smart growth planning principles which is a state mandate that we have to review and consider how are we meeting them and where are opportunities for the city to be meeting them. So, if I can just highlight what they are, um, mixeduse neighborhoods, diversity of housing, infill and redevelopment, public spaces, compact neighborhoods, open space, alternative transportation, and climate resilience and mitigation. Um, so in groups today, we all identified places in Ithaca that we think that's happening and then opportunities for where that could happen more and then then the zoning rewrite would sort of um hopefully address the opportunities. Um, there will be community outreach on May 19th. Um, it's the kickoff of the public being invited to weigh in on the zoning rewrite. So May 19th from 4:30 to 6:30 at the conference center. Did I miss anything? No, that sounds great. Okay,

that is that sums it up. Great. That's felt like a lot of progress. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of progress in this meeting uh compared to the last meeting. Absolutely. Yeah. Great. I think that concludes our business for today. Would can I have a motion to adjourn, Mitch? Second, Emily. We're injured. Thank you very much. Was just