Planning and Development Board - Regular Meeting

I didn't have my sound on. All right. Um I think what we want to do first is just have some introductions uh here for so you all know who we are. Uh I'm Max Feffer, chair of the board. Andy, you want to go? Andy Roman, board member. Emily Patrina, member of the board. Jenny Sliff, member of the board. Nikki Sarah, environmental landscape planner and staff to the board. Lisa Nicholas, director of planning and development and staff to the board. Sam Quinn Jacobs, planner and staff to the board.

All right. Thank you very much. Um, well, we're very concerned about everybody's safety. So, we want to point out that there's exits at the back of the room and here at the front of the room. And we also have a protocol here at the city that I want to read to you so you all know about it. Um, in case of emergency evacuation, we are to take one of two exits. Those are the two I just pointed out to you. And wait at the trees on the same side of the street on South Kaunga and Green Street. Don't cross Green Street unless absolutely necessary. Uh those with restricted mobility in the event of an emergency, it's best to move to one of the stairwells and first responders are going to come and give you some help. In the event of uh other emergencies, uh you will be not notified at that time. We want everyone to be aware of their surroundings and offer help when it is not your to your own detriment as you are your own best advocate. Okay. So, I hope we all feel safe and we'll get started here uh tonight. Um I asked about this before if there were any general comments from the public not related to the three projects. We'll have public hearings on them. That's the the Hive uh at 132 Cherry Street, uh 309 College Apartments, uh and Fingerlakes Reeves. I I checked before. I just want to make sure no one So, we'll move on. No public comments uh right now.

Yeah. And now, uh I think what we want to do is also want to do an agenda review. Um is there anything or are there any changes to the agenda? Um there is just one. The board will read and vote in a resolution right after board response to public comments. Okay. Since we have no uh public comments, um do we want to do the minutes first? Yeah.

Yeah. So we need to do the approval of minutes. We have minutes from December 16th uh 2025 and January 27th, 2026. Uh board members, have you had a chance to review? Do you uh move to Yeah. Second, J. Uh, Emily. Okay, great. All in favor, just raise your hands. Okay, those are all right. So, the first order of business is a special resolution we're bringing before you today. And I think it's of some special significance. The planning planning staff wish to express their sincere appreciation to Emily Patrina for valiantly serving as board chair from August 2024 through January 6. And whereas Emily demonstrated exceptional leadership, professionalism and comments actions and Appreciate you. and be it further resolved that this resolution be entered into the official records of the city as a token of our sincere thanks and recognition.

So, thank you so much. Thank you. I see positive votes. There's a motion to approve. Yes. Second. Uh all in favor? Note that Emily Note that Emily abstain from voting. Thank you much. Good luck, Max. Thank you very much.

All right. Um, we have no public comments, no uh board response to public comments. So, I think we're going to move ahead and go to site plan review. And first up is um the citizen at 602 West Buffalo Street. Who's on deck for this? There's Bear's in person today. Great. Yeah, please. Yeah, please. If you just use one. Oh, okay. So, maybe first introductions. Sure. And you and you need to log on, right? We might have some of the owner team. So,

uh maybe uh maybe Cir possibly. Good evening everyone. program. It was Julia. Hello, Julia. Hello. While Bear's starting that up, um you've seen a lot of Bear, but my name my name is Steve Fugo. I'm a principal with Holt Architects. Been working on this with Bear and the team behind the scenes and here tonight. Uh Bear Smith uh with Hol Architects. Um Jacob, I'm not seeing where I can uh share my screen. Are you on Zoom? Y Thank you. appreciate it.

I should just note that we are here to have your response to some of the uh issues that we've raised in the past and uh there's the potential for a preliminary and final site plan uh uh review. Uh so I think we'll turn the floor over to you.

Great. Um thank thank you Max. I, you know, I was going to sort of say the same thing, but I'll say it another way, too, is that we hope tonight, um, we're really hopeful and optimistic that we can answer all of your questions that would allow you to, uh, give us a preliminary and maybe final approval tonight. Um, Bar and I went back and we studied the last two meetings to try to scour for questions that you guys had and to see that we've answered them all. Some, you know, some I think we felt we'd answered. We narrowed it down to about 10 or 12 points that we wanted to um, talk about tonight. Um, and perhaps that, you know, perhaps the one that had the most conversation lately was the issue of the open parking. So, we thought we'd thought we'd start there. Um, we, you know, I think we've heard all the all the opinions and, um, I think all of them are legitimate. Um, you know, in urban areas and suburban areas, parking strategies can be very different. And I I think at the last um uh PRC meeting there was also a question about local precedent and open parking structures. I we've heard about the idea of enclosing the the structure completely. Um we after hearing all those comments I think we're still of the opinion that an open parking structure is is what we're proposing for this project for a number of reasons. one I think it is um really the most precedented example when you take a multif family building and you're parking under it or behind it um they tend to be open um there's one example that was an error in this presentation that's library place there is in fact a door on library place that I didn't pick up on so I wanted I wanted to mention that um I you know I think I understand all the other opinions of our you know our opinion is that you know eyes on the street does provide provide safety. Um being able to see in an open parking

structure um provides a level of safety at night. Um and that and that's generally been our um our approach for the project. Um the in the examples that you see there, Breenidge Place, um is uh I'm sure most of you are familiar with most of these projects. uh city center. They're not really parking um underneath the building, but parking behind the building, but there is a point of access way that um allows you to what is sort of a private parking area behind the building. Um there is a balance between an having open parking and we like to shield parking. We don't want to see cars, right? That from the beginning, this building's approach has been an urban approach, which is let the building hug the street beyond the sidewalk. Um, but there's some point that you have to access the site on Buffalo Street where we where we drive into the project. So, we did hear comments that it would be nice to shield more of the views of the cars. So, we have since the last meeting extended the knee wall that's behind the the bike parking uh to conceal, you know, right basically down that structural bay is is car parking versus the lane. So, you know, we believe that's a balance of providing transparency. As you as you go down Buffalo, you're seeing from east and west into the garage. You're walking as a pedestrian down the street. It's eyes on the street looking into that open parking structure. But the the change that we made was extending um that wall. Um also as a level, so once inside the garage, we want to have safe levels of lighting. We will have cameras, signage that says that um the place is you know that the parking area is under surveillance. Um and those are u that is

our approach to the the parking. Um with regard to the fencing then then once you have this open parking there's conversation about seeing into it, seeing out of it. Um there was some conversation around the fencing and and I think in the last meeting people asked for some clarification about this. um 45 degree angle um panel to the fence. Um I'll back up a little bit and say the the two properties next door that you know that appear to have been single family apartment single family ownership but look like they might now be apartments. You know our experience my experience in downtown areas in single family is that not always but good fences make good neighbors. A lot of single family homes, even when bordered on single family homes, they want to have privacy screening to their backyard. Um, so along that west wall, we've provided fencing, not um, you know, not openings in a facade. I think there's there's a perception that when you're in your backyard, a fence gives you privacy as opposed to openings in a facade that might feel like people are looking from that building into your backyard. So, that that's been our approach and our attitude. the the caned slope to the fence panel. Maybe Bear, if you could look at that. Um, you know, we're, you know, we'll we're open to suggestion, but in this case, what happens is you'll see when you look straight on at this fence, it's essentially a privacy fence. You can't really see much about what's on the other side. When you're looking in one direction of the 455 degree angle um panel, you have complete screening. and in the other direction um you know much more uh opa uh uh level of transparency. So we've oriented that fencing in a way that from the backyards the private backyards if you look straight at our

building um you would have mostly obscured view of the parking i.e. you wouldn't be looking into the parking but by the angle of that you can see more of the street. So we're we're we're caning that so that the backyards have more view towards the street. Um, with regard to lighting, questions came up about lighting. We're um this the plan that's in your package. This is an update. Since the um what's in your package, we actually reduced the the amount of light fixtures over the the cars where the cars are parked, not in the drive lane, um by half. So, there were there were, you know, there were lights uh in between every bay and at every structural bay. Um, that's somewhere about 10 to 20 foot candles in the garage, which is a, you know, a recommended level. Uh, 10 on the low end and even lower. It could go even lower. Um, you get essentially zero foot candles at the property line. So, we we were preventing light spillage onto the neighboring property. And then in addition, the one other thing we might be concerned about parking next to uh a single family neighbor might be, you know, even though you don't have light spillage, looking at a light fixture can be unpleasant. So, we're also going to provide skirting um around. So, essentially when you look from the ground, the light fixture is on the ceiling. It's it's surface mounted and when you're looking that would be blocked by the skirting that runs between from column to column. Um uh with that I'm going to ask Bear to update you on a couple of issues regarding the landscape plan and then I'll wrap it up with some um sharing some materials with you and the exterior of the building.

Yep. Absolutely. Thank you, Steve. So [clears throat] to kind of jump off from uh the last PRC meeting, we've heard back and forth that there was want a desire for additional effort for the streetscape, especially along uh North Meadow there. And so we took those comments to heart and we extended instead of having to seeding in between two planting areas, we have now extended that along the entire face of the building along there. That will also help create a nice transition with the raised window sill heights due to the flood plane. So creating a little bit more of that visual transition. Uh another item that we heard was the concern around the uh tree islands. We had intended to have that be a port in place rubber to match what's down the street. We heard the concerns regarding some of the maintenance issues with that. So in lie of that we are going to do cast iron um tree grates uh around the trees uh because we heard that as a comment as a potential adjustment. Um based off there was also a comment regarding the um brick pavers and we had come at it from an approach of we wanted to maintain them from a sustainability standpoint. thinking about the concern that was raised about should they be replaced, should they not, we took another look and thought about the construction phasing and there's a good chance that those pavers will get beat up through the construction process. So, we are suggesting that they will be replaced. The existing pavers will be recycled and provided to like a reuse or something like that. Um, then um we did also hear about the ballards. Uh being that those are a DOT regulated item, we are happy to clean those up and paint them. We're even amendable to uh providing one of those ballarded covers over them, like the plastic sleeves that can go over the solid ones to help dress them up. We

think cleaning them up and painting them will probably be the best choice, but if the board feels otherwise, we're happy to make that adjustment. Um and the color will be DOT dependent. Um, so right now we're hoping for a white, but they may say it has to stay the yellow. Um, we'll see see what they come up with that. Um, bike racks. We do have three locations of bike storage. Um, there is the main bike storage that is along here that is recessed under the building. That would be both for uh the retail and the residential to be able to use. Um along Meadow Street there is um a smaller bike rack adjacent to the rear entry that would be for retail. And then under the uh parking area, there is an additional screened in uh um bike rack that is fenced in for the uh residents for securing those. One item to mention in conjunction with this was it was brought up the concern about uh fire safety with the ebikes. We definitely hear that concern. Um, and one of the things that I think bodess well or speaks well to the open parking garage is if there was an event of a fire there, it does allow the passage of the smoke and fumes to be able to eress out of the building as opposed to being contained. In addition, because this is a podium style construction building, it does have a three-hour fire separation between the uh parking garage and the residential up above. It is a concrete deck. So there is a a good level of fire safety um before it becomes a structural concern at that point. Um so from a safety and security standpoint, while I know there's concerns around it, we can't necessarily uh uh tell residents that they can't have ebikes, but they're not being brought into the building proper. It's just in that parking structure area. Um and at that point, I will Oh,

do you want Yeah. Do you want to you want to slowly take us down to the the front elevation just so I can point out the roof screen the rooftop screening? Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Advance through the slides. Maybe go through the rendering slowly. Yeah. And then I I won't say I'm not really going to say much that you Yeah, because you guys have talked through these.

So again, just to kind of bring the plan to the renderings a little bit, uh along the trees, we will have uh the tree grates all along there and the pavers. There will the rendering show and seating. Apologies. It will be planting all along there. And of course, we have the mural going along. And you can see a little whisper of that uh wall that's extending up to block the views of the single row of cars that are along the front. You don't get to the two row of cars until much further back. And you can see some of those elements a little bit better here. And then getting into the elevation.

Yeah. Let me let me start handing out the interior um materials and then then you can zoom in on the the actual color samples. But um so I [snorts] I I believe we've already had the architectural review where we generally talked through the the facade. I think at one point u Max you would ask about seeing more of the context of the existing building. So we've updated this elevation. I think at times we've we've shown that there's this like patentated copper uh building next to it. Um, but you can see a little bit more of the the building context. But what we haven't showed you and we owed you are some samples of of actual materials. Um, let me just start with the um, so in terms of color, we're going to show you it in a minute. We didn't we couldn't get actual painted samples of the siding. Um, so what we're passing around here is on within the facade there are essentially two textures, right? There's the the V-groove that we've talked about and then there's a clabard that it sort of looks like what um there's yeah there's the imagery. Um

V-groove the clabard is, you know, actually until they actually construct and put the clabbered pieces together, you know, we don't have a sample of the overlap, but it looks kind of like what you'd see in a residential shingle but out of this product. Um this is the um one thing we wanted to point out too is that within within the world of cement board you know this is what you would expect to see in a typical residential construction and this product the I always forget the name it's uh artisan line

the artisan line is a is a heavier duty more commercial version of that so I'll just pass around like that's residential sample and you can do that around as we talk about them. Um the paint colors for those panels are here. Feel free to take them out. So there's basically two colors of beige in the north end of the building and then um the darker colors for the siding and that's the accent. Occasionally there's sort of like a a dark gray swath I think once on the um east facade and once on the south facade.

Yeah. Um, just to hop in real quick, the the grays that you see in there going from top to bottom. The darkest gray is the window accent. Then you will get um a medium gray, which is just this uh accent band, which is just meant to be a shade darker than the field gray. And then for the two cream/beige colors, similar idea with the field colors. There is a lighter one and then a slightly dark accent, but again with the same dark gray for the window accent.

Um this is the the virtual black accent. The metal including the storefront um window is that material and then this is the base uh block. Um the I I think the last thing we'll show did we look at the rooftop screening? Uh okay. So, some somebody had asked that there is rooftop screening, and I think we failed to show that in the past. The dark gray that you see sort of over the center is is that rooftop screening. It's set back. So, from many vantage points on the ground, you'll never see it. But, of course, as you're farther away, maybe coming down meadow, um it would be important to see that instead of mechanical equipment.

What one thing to note with that screening is we've chosen to go with a horizontal louver that's angled in. And the purpose for that is as development occurs around the site and sight lines start getting equal with it, it will still block the view until you get above it. Once you get above it, it's above it. So I think that's all we we have and we are we'd love to answer any questions.

Um may I ask sorry um Todd is I think Todd is should be in a waiting room if somebody could let him in please. It's on we have the sample board but we didn't get a a produced version of the of the paint. But um if you know if you know we could make the approval contingent on you know that we come back with all the file. The reality is until we bid the project we're not exactly sure all the products we're going to get. So we try to give you guys the best representation of what of what we have. But um I I apologize we didn't get a piece of that green painted. Yeah,

is most fine. I don't have such a discerning eye gray some people, but the green is hot. So, well, Jenny, why don't you keep the floor and uh give us your any reactions you have to the presentation.

Sure. Thank you guys so much. It's really nice to see you again. I I'm you know I'm looking through this the pieces on the garage screening and I'm just more um I'm not understanding in plain language some of the points that you guys are raising around the garage screening. So I'm not necessarily saying which way I'm going. I'm sort of curious to hear from other folks on the board and maybe this was also discussed at PRC. Um but okay so this one so okay so people who live in single family or multif family renter units you know they don't want to look into the parking do you hear from people that they prefer privacy screens over just straight fencing because it seems like you're making the point that like they don't want to see the parking so you provided this privacy screen but just an actual like full fence would also screen their parking and then this piece around Um uh where is it in here? You know this like what do you guys keep calling eyes on the street the overall facade continuous for eyes on the street and visual permeability through the double driveway back out. So you're saying like when you're standing in the parking lot you want people to be able to see Buffalo Street. I just like I'm really not conceptually understanding how that is. And I think the other piece I'm still curious about is like if it's for safety, is the idea then that like the safety is provided because the people whose backyards are looking into the parking area can see into the parking and then they're what supposed to be the ones to call the police if there's something going on. Like I'm not sure like who is the person gaining in terms of safety in this structure just based on like where this building is located. Does that make sense? That's sort of where I'm

puzzling over. Would you like us to wait? Yeah. Why don't you collect everything? Speak to this because it might come up again. So So that's that's one thing. The Yeah. And I need to correct myself from the last time we met where I said that this reminds me of Ariana Grande, black girl green, and that it is not Ariana Grande. It is Charlie XCX that coined this color. And so I think I'm also curious to see if there's any more discussion on that. I you know it's just it's very green. Okay. Uh that's it for me. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you both. Emily,

um I think the the move for landscaping on Meadow is great. Um as the corner evolved and as the front entry evolved, the seating around there did sort of become obsolete. So um I fully support that move. I think that's great to greenify that whole route 13 corridor while maintaining the seating at the corner where maybe you might have a restaurant. So that that seems very good. Um I don't have any questions. I mean I I was thinking through this parking screening and sort of distilled the goals in my mind and the the first goal is Buff uh you know Buffalo Street car visibility for me safety pedestrian and car interface. That seems like it's solved. The second goal was um safety for pedestrians in the garage, which I think maybe we'll hear more from you about in terms of what Jenny said. And the third was just visibility of the cars from the streets and from the neighbors, which I think you solved. So that second, how are people inside the garage safe is my only outstanding question. I think the materials seem good and high quality. Um and I think everything else has been resolved. Thanks.

Okay. Thank you, Emily. Uh, Andy.

No, thank you. Yeah, thanks Baron. Nice to meet you, Steve. Um, I' I'd actually like to back up a little bit first and then I do have some specific questions about the building, but um, just starting out by saying I care about um, tenants of affordable housing. And sorry, I I wrote something just because I I wanted to make sure I got it all down. So, I'm going to be reading a little bit, but um what I've learned recently about affordable housing is there's three components of success that are clearly um key. A structured management plan, a structured security plan, and a structured support services plan. But in addition to those, we also need accountability in adhering to those. you know, any developer can say we're going to do all these things, but it's, you know, how do you actually, you know, prove that you're going to adhere to it and is there accountability? Um, what we're seeing at Aster and Art House, it's in the news everywhere right now, is that those key components have either not been defined or not adhered to. Um, so right now the owners of the conference center are suing the owners of the building over mismanagement. So it's a it's a big deal. It's it's really we we all know it's not working. So my thought on the garage when I first saw this was here's a way to solve security and close the whole thing. Make it so that people, you know, can't walk in and out. You know, maybe that will be more secure. So, you guys showed us um examples of garages in town that are open, but I'm still not clear if they're safe. Yes, there are precedents, but we don't really know what that means. You know, just because they're open doesn't mean it was a good idea. It just means

that they're open. So, I I still have questions around that. So, you know, back to, you know, security and support services and management. My understanding is as a board, um, our it's not in our purview to require these things. Um, and it's not in our purview to, you know, provide accountability. Like, we can't be punitive. I mean, unless you guys say that it could be a condition of our approval that we see these plans, um, I don't think there's anything in place for accountability. Um, but I guess my question to Visom is what are the lessons that lessons learned that you can share that will give us confidence that this project will actually support the tenants? And I don't know if

you want they want to answer that now or or do you want to do all the Well, did you have any other points Andy that you had on specific points? Yeah. Yeah. On the building. Okay. So, that's kind of my big picture and it kind of plays into what Jenny was saying. You know, eyes on the street. What does that mean? I I have the same question. Does that mean I don't know what

Yeah. who's so suddenly you know whose responsibility is it to um provide the security. So this the specific things first you know thank you for you know everything you've done to listen to us and I think the equity part of that you guys really got I mean I think the entrance you know to the building is is really great. Um, these are really specific questions, but what is the substrate of the mural? Is that the, you know, splitface CMU that would be painted later, or do you have something else in mind? That would be like a marine grade plywood that's typically like the on gateway center. Like you'll see there's a mural all along the creek there. Mhm.

Um and and it's, you know, it's intended to handle the weather. It painted here as well. That's a very

So, the mural is really going to be a key thing that's going to come initially. Um had a question about the screening, but you've talked about that. It's some high-end louvered system that will hide mechanical unit. um the cement board, the Hardy plank, you you have so many conditions, so many outside corners and transitions. Um you know, we can see from from the material that the finish is really just on the face. What are you doing at the corners and the transitions with the material? Because initially, you know, I think at the last meeting, I was concerned that this felt more like a residential house material. So in what way will it feel more refined and commercial in terms of the detail?

Yeah, you know honest to be honest with you like you know in later phases we'll we'll get into that much detail but typically what we might have is a is a aluminum trim something a channel that the two pieces click into. Right. Um I don't think mitering is is a is a good um but and and I think that metal if it's if it's detailed correctly can can be a nice part of the the detail. Yeah. Yeah, I would say that's something really to think about in terms of, you know, what is the color of the metal and, you know, how are these pieces come together? So, I think that that piece is missing. And I'm sorry, I forgot I'm supposed to wait to answer the question. Oh, no, that's okay. That was

Maybe it was an easy one. Um, otherwise, I I support the the landscape plan and I understand, you know, about the reuse of the material. Now, I think that makes sense. So I think you know when we get back to answering I think my questions about the you know enclosure of the garage versus keeping it open really have to do with you know I think it's a question to Vism. Okay good thank you. Okay so we'll stop there and we'll let you guys give a response to these various things.

Sure. Sure. I think that, you know, I think the the main one that I took notes on here. I think the um safety in the garage is the is the is to me eyes on the street means um I can imagine a scenario where a completely enclosed garage if you go down there at 11:00 at night is a scary place to be. Um eyes on the street is is a real term that it it doesn't guarantee that someone's walking down the sidewalk at 10:00 when something happens. Um, but you know, that normally means that there's some level of security that people aren't going to uh commit a crime when they when they think that someone could drive by and see them. It's not an assurance that that, you know, we're not saying eyes on the street means that it's going to prevent crime. Um, but I would say knowing that the maj far majority of local precedent are projects that have that are this um I I I think in this case um we do I guess your your main your main question was about that level of security. I should let the owner group answer questions about management. Um but uh that was your first question about eyes on the street about the screen. Um we would be open to a fence that is complete privacy screen. Uh we thought this was an interesting idea. this fence that you could sort of see out of. That's not a, you know, a deal breaker for us. Um, I I do think that people with backyards often like to have privacy screening, which would be a almost a complete um blockage. Um, I also to answer your question, this is a little different because the we don't have apartments on that ground floor. But what we've seen in other projects is when a a multif family or even a single family home is up against another property or single family home, even if that was someone's living room and not a parking garage,

people like fences because they don't like people to be, you know, washing their dishes and watching you in your backyard. Um, so that's why we took that approach and and u that that was the idea of the of the fence. And and I think something to note is the the project down the street too has a similar condition of it's it's a four to five story building right next to a smaller residential and it it had it chose to go with a fence as opposed to inline screening. Um, and so that's something else to kind of pay attention to. It's like the it's neighborly and also it's something that is common place already in the city.

Um, the I guess the last thing I I I need to respond to the color comment too. Um, you know, colors colors are are, you know, they're somewhat subjective. Um, I think the the approach to the majority of this building is that the wall panels, the things that really want to be the most permanent are of a palette that I would consider pretty timeless. Like the grays, the dark, you know, the dark grays are the color of stone. Um, the beiges we picked are are sort of natural palette of materials. It's not hot yellow. It's not hot red. Um, and so sometimes, you know, to be to be timeless, we thought honestly like the the between us and the owner group, um, that green is there to kind of energize what otherwise is this idea of an, you know, a a building panel trying to emulate stone or something. It's it's an accent. Um, I'm sure the owner group wouldn't not want approval because somebody didn't want the green, but um, but that that's our logic behind it.

No, no. Yeah. bit bit subjective here. And I think that's what certainly in the community that's what you hear a lot about, right? That's what you heard about with the Cuba Park building. That's what you hear about with the blue and the building. Like you hear about people and their thoughts on how something fits into the landscape or doesn't. And is this going to be a design and a building that in 20 years still fits with like a timeless vision of what That's what that looks like. Yeah. And I just I just to circle back to the eyes on the street, I I understand you and I hear what you're saying. Is your mic on? Sorry.

Sorry. In in sort of laying this out. I think I just don't want that to be a proxy for safety when realistically we're talking about the space from like here. I mean, I'm I think I'm getting from here to maybe the end of the table. And if you're parking at that far end of that parking garage, using the term like we have eyes on the street to give us safety, I think is a little bit um maybe not a fair

assessment because that is like I don't know, however many cars are parked in there away from the actual street and there are these other things. So, I just don't want that to be a misleading way that we're talking about safety when I'm not really sure how realistic that is as like a place where there are visible people who are contributing to a culture and community of safety if that makes sense,

right? Yeah. And I and I think we I ought to make sure because that Todd and Julia can can comment. You know, the the architecture can do so much and you know and in this case the you know, eyes on the street isn't an only form of security. Um, security cameras are not an only form of security. Um, lighting is not an only form of security. Um, but maybe ju Todd, do you want to say anything about from an owner's perspective the our strategy? Yeah. I mean, I just personally speaking, I mean, if I'm pulling into that garage, I'm going all the way to the back. Yeah. Like to your point, at 11:00 at night,

you know, if it's open to the neighbor, does that mean that a neighbor's going to be looking out their window? No. But it's a deterrent versus if you have a solid block wall that entire way and you're 150 ft away from any visibility of any street. That to me feels a lot scarier than like if you have these openings where someone could see. Like that is a deterrent. Is that going to stop everything? No. But I think that's a better condition than walling everything off and making it like this long tunnel where there's just zero visibility. So, um I I I would definitely push back on that and I I I would ask everyone to kind of like imagine yourself having to drive to the back of that thing and what condition would you prefer? Um and for for me it seems obvious. So that I mean that that that's my perspective. Um, and yeah, it doesn't solve safety problems, but it I just think it it it it improves it, you know, and then when you add in security cameras and you add in good lighting, like then you have something that makes it more safe and um yeah, and you know, I think one of the other things we talked about too is like, you know, the the the the concern of like are there going to be people entering in there and hiding out in there that don't actually live in the building? And you know, you're less likely to do that if the space is open, but if it's enclosed, it's easier to kind of hide around a corner or behind a car versus if you have like openings. I just think that's it's a natural deterrent no matter who you are. So, one thing to consider too is with an open garage, you do have the added benefit of say someone falls and slips and needs help or there is an incident where they need help and they need to yell out for that help. If it's an open garage, members of the public are able to get in there and help and potentially people in the building as opposed to in a closed garage that's secured off. Only people in the building that are separated by a STC50 floor and can't hear the stuff. You're you're less less likely to have

that opportunity for someone to hear you in an enclosed garage.

I think this is this is Chris Dur. If I can add a couple of comments um with along with the manage what the management is or the uh visim is responding to I think that's a good question and I think it's a question of you know how do you create that sense of security and how do you uh promote that security I think that an isolated area is going to is going to feel to the users less secure and potentially less secure than an open area. Um, I would I would agree that if I have uh myself or my wife or my daughter are going into a parking garage, I'd rather have it be open where potentially other people could see me or could see them as opposed to going into um a a contained area. That that's just my opinion. Um, I do want to respond. There was a question about the corners and in other and how that is addressed with the with the Hardy board and other developments that I've worked on. We've used a corner channel um where the the uh the Hardy on both sides dives into that channel. Um, and that might be a a good way to for a detail um to be nice and clean um so that those edges of the Hardy panels aren't uh aren't revealed. Um just a a thought. I think that with respect to the color um and the green color is subjective. I think that in looking for a color I think that there was desire on the owner's part to have something that um would contrast with the muted um body, the muted grays um but that would be enduring. Um, I think that if you you ask a lot of people um is there anything that they recall about uh um about an orange and people are going to say, "Oh, yeah, the shag rugs from um from years ago." Um, and we want to avoid um a color that's not going to maintain its

timely um appeal. Um we thought that the that the green might do that. I do know that I've worked on a a project um in uh the city of Pittsburgh strip district about 10 years ago. I did use um a uh a green to to offset the muted colors. Um and today people are still really fond of it because it has maintained that um that enduring uh color, but it is very subjective. I don't think that there is anything that I don't want to speak for ownership, but I don't think there's anything um that ties them to that other than they're looking for something that's going to have a timeless appeal to it so that in 15 20 years people aren't going to say, "Wow, that looks like the shad rug orange that we uh that we now talk about." Um, so I would offer that um for uh for the color accent with respect to um there's a question about uh about management security and support services. I think that I can speak more directly to that. Um I think that um there certainly are some challenges with some projects in town right now. Um and I do think that there are some things there lessons to be learned from those. Um I think that in this development um great ta great care was taken um to provide a very secure entry um and a funneled entry and exit um into the residential space that is independent from the commercial space. So there is not engagement between the residential space and the commercial space. I think that that may be one thing that distinguishes um the uh the the pattern of of traffic flow in this building versus some of the other uh developments that uh that were that were referenced. And I think that that was purposeful. I think that the um that the entrance a

dedicated entrance for the residents um was a good um evolution of the design uh so that there is not a confluence between the commercial users and the residential users. um access will be very controlled via fob access um by the residents um or uh controlled access to the resident's gas in order to get into the residential component of the development. Um support services will be provided on on site. Um, I think that uh that Visom has worked hard with um Catholic Charities of Tomkins and Tyogga um to come up with a um a very um wellthoughtout um service plan and a funding source um for those uh supportive service units. I think the other thing is um there are 30% of the units are supportive service but no greater than that and I think that um that was purposeful in um defining a number that was going to be able to be responsive to the need in the community um but not so many that it would overwhelm the development so that the um supportive service population could be integrated um into the balance of the residents. And then I think the other thing is um real specific and purposeful care was given to um the supportive service populations um that are in the development so that they complement one another um don't overwhelm any of them. There are three separate populations um and so I think that that's a nice balance as opposed to having um say all 30 units of one population of one supportive service population. So, I think I talked about uh on-site management. I talked about the security and I talked about um the real need um

and the purposeful thought behind um having support services um with a very um designed and thoughtout uh supportive service population. So, I hope that that's responsive to the question, but if there are other questions, I'm happy to um to answer those or to to I do want to clarify one point that Chris made. It's 30% 18 units. It's not 30 units. That's I'm sorry. I meant 30% of the of the total unit population, which is 18 units. Yeah. Thank you for the clarification. Yeah.

Okay. I I think uh we'd like to have a little discussion on the board and want to see kind of where we're at at this point. And there's a few issues that kind of I've jotted down to try to uh bring us together. Um first is landscape. I have a sense that we're okay with landscape. Is that right? Yeah. So, I think we can move on from there. Uh, another one is the materials. Now, we saw the materials for the first time today. Andy, you had a couple of questions about kind of the construction and so forth. Uh, do we have any major concerns about materials or things that would really need to be addressed?

Yeah, Emily. Um, I guess I would propose that as part of the revol resolution, we make it a contingency to see the final color selections. Um, and maybe lock in that metal channel at the corners. I think that's a great idea to have details submitted, you know, to staff once they're complete. But otherwise, I I don't have concerns about that. A good suggestion. What do others think about that as possible?

Yeah, I think I think I'd be comfortable with that. we we are used to seeing you know at these presentations that level of detail. So you know [snorts] that's one of the reasons I was asking you know in other projects we see you know actual details we see the you know the metal shapes so we see that's why you know I was asking the question but you know I it sounds like you know you're you're looking at some kind of a channel in between and a corner detail so you will address it so I'm comfortable with that.

Okay. I do I did have one kind of material other question and that is the the new wall that's being proposed the full height um split face block to me that seems like a really great graffiti opportunity you know to have that black blank wall there. So I would question whether you could, you know, think about that a little more, the design of that. Um, anything else on materials? Color is kind of covered in that as well. Um so then the the kind of the the big issue is kind of the you know the safety inside the parking and the and the fence. Um and you know where do we we stand uh on the fence? Um what do people look

I'll go out on a limb and say I I prefer the proposed fence. Um, not really for eyes on the street because I think your point is well taken that eyes are far from the street, but the sound really made me think about it. I would with my son in the back prefer to not be completely enclosed in a tunnel. So, I think that leads me to wanting to approve the proposed louvered metal fence.

Yeah. My initial reaction, you know, just looking at the fence, aside from enclosed or not enclosed, was you were proposing a vinyl fence and, you know, I just thought, come on, no way. It's got to be better than that. So, I do like I like the angle. I mean, I think, you know, I know you guys have been in that courtyard. There's residential on all sides, so you know, everybody, you know, will be able to see no matter what angle it is. But I I I like it. I mean, I like that effect. Seeing in and not seeing in. Okay. And Jenny?

Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm okay with the fence. I just wanted to make sure we were clear about what the fence was and wasn't actually providing and like what the expectations are of saying like this is creating safety and and just really being clear about what those what those statements mean when we're like putting those out there. Um, so yeah, and I'm I'm okay with the fence. town. I hadn't really spoken up about this. I I mean, I like the fence as proposed as well. I'm I've been since the very beginning kind of a pro proponent of a very open uh parking space because I think as a as a user, I would feel more safe that way than uh than having something more enclosed. So, uh that's my opinion about that. Uh so, it sounds like we are okay with the lubricants. Yeah. See? Okay. That's a that's a good thing. uh the the I guess the lighting and general safety in the parking area. What do we have?

Yeah, I think for me um I think Chris Chris, can I ask what your role is? I'm sorry I don't understand.

Yeah, sure. So, I'm a a partner at Rockeville um development consulting. We're a consultant on this deal. Um, I've done maybe a lot of units across the country, but um, I've also worked with Visom on on Stately, um, which is in construction now. We're partner in that deal, and it's come along great. We're really proud of it. Uh, and we're also helping Vism, um, with, uh, with the Hive as well. Um, so that's that's kind of my role. Um, I I really do affordable housing across the country. I do market rate also, but um my I really like affordable and workforce housing. I do it across the country.

Yeah. So, I think I think for me Chris answered the question um well and you know I I just think we're all you know concerned about affordable housing in Ithaca and you know especially with you know Aster and Art House and wanting to really not repeat that. So, um, you know, I think you Todd, you didn't really answer it, but but Chris, you did. I don't know if you have anything to add, Todd, just in terms of, you know, what you think lessons learned might be um that would give us a better comfort level for this project.

Yeah, I I think it really boils down to management, which I mean is is one of the pillars that you talked about. Um, you know, and having someone local, I think working with a nonprofit is usually pretty important. Um, just because they're they're more missiondriven. Um, you know, we're partnering with Arbor Group on State on the Stately Project. Um, you know, they're they're a local nonprofit. Um, I think you just get a different um level of service. And again, you know, it's it's mission driven. You know, they're doing this because they care about creating this housing. It's important for them. It's important for people to have safe, you know, quality places to live. Um, so I I I think, you know, setting up the right team is going to be the key to success. And I mean, if you look at INHS, you don't have these these problems, you know. I mean, for decades, you know, they they have just done such an exceptional job in the market. And it's because they care, you know. So, and I'm not saying that PCON doesn't care, but I I I I think that, you know, the people that they put in place to run the place, um, you know, they they just they ran into a lot of challenges that they didn't anticipate, and I don't think that they took the right approach. So, um, I think that, you know, we're conscious of that. You know, we're trying to do more affordable housing projects. You know, the stately is our first one, this would be the second. You know, then obviously the hive would be the third. So, I mean, we we we want to be able to create these legacy buildings that people can live in long term that, you know, it's start out with a great reputation and maintain a great reputation. So, um it's something that's important to us and having the right team is is going to be critical. So,

great. [snorts] Okay. That's incredibly helpful. Thank you, Todd. Yeah, you're welcome. So, the board, um is there anything that we've got that hasn't really been addressed, hasn't been answered that that we really feel uh is a big hole. Yeah,

I had one last comment and this is just uh nice to have if you can work it in a dog relief area. I think that's something we've really seen especially as these really big buildings have been going up in downtown Ithaca and we don't have a lot of like pocket parks or other things like that and these like multi-unit buildings, they just, you know, they smell like urine. You walk by them, there is a ton of dog poop out front because we're not really building in spaces for dog relief areas. So, I don't know what the wiggle room is, you know, in this, but I just I keep forgetting to mention that, but otherwise, I thank you all for sort of engaging with us on the conversation around this. Yeah, that's a really good point. Thanks. Well, hopefully you take that into consideration. Great, Emily.

I just wanted to follow up on your question about um lighting safety. Do we feel like it's illuminated well enough? Yeah. Um, in my limited research, I am finding like five foot candles as a target for nighttime. Correct me if I'm wrong. typically for parking lots five foot candles and I think there's some uh requirements within the city of Itha and parking lots under the building that's where we tend to see it be a little bit higher right which is great like you have 24 18 I'm not in the the whole tunnel there I'm not seeing less than like 15 [clears throat] so it to me and then you're still getting zero at the property line so I feel like it from the lighting plan seems to work really well and feels safe

good any others just comment on that, Andy? Yeah, I agree. And I did notice at the corner, I liked, you know, all the down lighting that you have at the corner. I think that'll be great at night. Yeah, we we did intentionally let that spill over a little bit to protect the sidewalk, but not let it spill so far that it's entering the road.

Any thoughts on that, Jenny? Yeah, I I have to say I I'm I appreciate the lighting as well. And to me, that's also part of the discussion around the whole parking lot, the safety and everything. And I think this will work well. I'm convinced about that. So, um I hear no major outstanding issues. Um so, I I w want to know are we ready to move for and and final uh site plan review? I see nods. Yeah. My only issue would be the big black wall. You know, how that could be Nikki, you think that could be handled? We could do conditions. Conditions. Okay. If you feel comfortable with that, okay,

you feel comfortable with that. So would we if reasonable large? So with that uh so then I will ask for a motion uh for preliminary and final site plan review Emily seconded by Jenny. All right. So further discussion and I think we want to talk about conditions, right? Yeah. So can you help us with that? Yes, Max. And I'm wondering if you guys would like to add more at least two, but let me know. Um, and then you'll have to vote on right. Yes. The changes. First off, if there's any questions of the res ones that

and this could come the following conditions. corners, but I think the cement panel transitions. Is that fair to say? Cement panel transitions

and corners, but that could also mean between panels vertically. Of course planning staff if we don't feel we will send it to you. Of course. Okay. So I if you so vote the other one was on the ballards certificate of occupancy. with approval.

Yes. [laughter]

Make it specific. Yeah. I mean, it could be, you know, breeze block. It could be something more interesting than just completely solid if we're comfortable with the garage being open. Um, so submittal of um final articulation of screen wall final articulation of screen wall on the garage along West Buffalo. Make it very specific. Okay, I think you're right. I think that would get tagged within a week probably. Okay, so those are the three if

did we catch anything? Is there was there anything else that didn't catch? All right. So, I think that we're at the point where we can take a vote approval. So, I think on the ch first we have the changes and then Yes. So, first we vote the changes. So, these are the changes that has talked to us. Andy. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. For me, too. All right. So with that in mind, uh this resolution with these conditions in place and all the other were listed beforehand, uh how do we vote? Uh but do we need a motion? No, it's

this is for preliminary and final. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So that's unanimous approved with the conditions. Understood. Thank you all for your time. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. and appreciate the collaboration. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Um, we're going to move on now with uh uh to consider site plan review for the Hive at 132 Cherry Street. Um, and what we're looking at here is a public hearing and also uh amended uh secret determination. Um, I think if we could maybe have a a short uh presentation uh before the public hearing would be a useful uh tool and uh and I I kind of want to emphasize the short because we're running a little late today, but a brief so that every anyone that wants to speak to the project will be well informed and we do have some speakers signed up. So So Julia, you want to take it over?

Of course. Thank you so much, Max. Um, we'll actually pass it on to Craig and to Miriam with CJS. Um, can you we you're muted. Oh, I know. Yeah, I realize that now. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Hi. Uh, Craig Jensen with CJS Architects. Um, Miriam Yakub is also with us tonight and she'll run the presentation. I'll do most of the talking probably for uh our firm here. So, uh the Hive at 132 Cherry Street in the Cherry Street District. Uh this is a project that received site plan approval back in 2022. And that approval uh is still in place for the original design, but now as the project has transitioned to an affordable project and as it is now addressing some changes to the FEMA maps, uh we're requiring an amended site plan approval due to the changes that are necessitated by those two things. Um the development team has really made a concerted effort to maintain the same project, the same quality as was previously approved. The only changes that are being made are really the ones that need to be made to address those two issues of of the FEMA map and and the HCR requirements. Um M you can go to the next slide. Um we are also seeking now uh a setback variance as a result of site plan changes necessitated by by FEMA. So uh here you can see the project uh you know artouse the existing uh conditions are on the left proposed is on the right. We are building adjacent to the art house project which is what you see on the left. Our project is two buildings. Uh really that's done to reduce the overall kind of mass and create more interest and texture along the street, make the site a little more permeable than it would be if it was a single building, you know, with this number of units,

which is uh 148 units. The first floor is now in alignment with the art house first floor. um that that um you know kind of works for us as as far as the streetscape is concerned. We did move the north building, the building at the top further to the east in order to uh get out of the the floodway because the the flood maps in addition to raising the grade uh the required first floor elevations for HCR, they also uh don't allow us now to build on the rear portion of the parcel where the potential uh floodway would be would be moving water at that point. You you go to the next one, Miriam. So, this is the ground floor plan. Um I think as at least as the board has heard before, we're attempting to activate the ground floor as much as possible, but we are putting some parking under the buildings as well. There's about 40 parking spots between the two buildings. And then we're activating as much of the rest of the ground floor as possible, especially along the Black Diamond Trail, which is at the south building along that that whole edge of the building and then wrapping around the corner of Cherry Street and Cecil Malone. And then also activating the east end of the north building with a commercial space. Uh there's commercial spaces both in that corner and at the corner of Cecil Malone. And then there's a a fitness or a gym space on the southwest corner by the pedestrian bridge, which although it's not a commercial space, will be open both to the public and to residents. So essentially will function as another activation space for the the trail and the streetscape. Um there's a courtyard

facing out toward the inlet uh between the two buildings that's accessible and outdoor amenity space essentially. and then a entrance courtyard that provides access to uh both of the parking areas. One benefit of the FEMA changes, which were not generally a benefit to the project, I would say, is that pushing the north building a little bit to the east, did give us some green space on the back of the parcel, which now allowed us to incorporate uh what we're calling a toe path or or a walkway along that inlet that includes things like a pet station and just a general place for people recreate that would be available not only to the residents but to anyone else as well because that that area is is connected to the Black Diamond Trail and ideally could be extended further north by Art House or other developments to the north. Um we have talked in previous meetings about the uh parking on street and the solution that we're proposing now which I think is one that the board uh also felt was appropriate was to combine some parking spaces with a tree lawn on the street side of the sidewalk. So, we maintain a portion of the tree lawn that we proposed in the prior solution uh prior to the changes to the flood maps, but now as we as we've moved the buildings a little bit to the east, uh the com combination of the uh parking and the tree lawn is something that that I think is the is the best solution for us. Now, uh we do have as shown uh you know bike racks uh at the front of the building as well as a transit stop and

then um 10 ft of um green green space or tree lawn between the building and and the sidewalk. You can go to the next Miriam. So, as you've seen before, this is the exterior as seen from the corner of Cherry Street and Cecil Malone. Um, the materials on the building are a combination of uh unpigmented fiber cement, which is the gray material that's projecting forward there. And then uh the yellow is a pigmented fiber cement that's in these recesses, these recessed balcony areas uh of the units that have recessed balconies. Then in addition to that, we've got a uh metal siding that's painted black on the primarily on the exterior perimeter of the building and then a white metal siding on the interior courtyard sides of these two buildings. So the kind of inner shell is white, the outer shell is is black. And then there's also a a galvanized metal siding on some of the projecting portions, which is a a different unit type. We're basically using different unit types to kind of demarcate uh different areas of the facade to break it down into a little bit of a smaller scale. There's also uh perforated uh metal which is galvanized for most of the balconies both that project off the building and our inset. But then we do alternate that a little bit with some picketed rails just to kind of change the scale of the building. You can see that not all the balconies are the same in those in those recesses. Uh ground floor is primarily glass wherever we can do it. Uh the parking area is screened by perforated metal. Again, a galvanized perforated metal, which we have done before in other projects and we think is pretty successful. There's a little bit

of exposed CMU masonry around the courtyard side at stair towers just as an additional kind of material uh selection. Go to the next. Um I'm not sure I have a lot to add here. You know there were some questions before about um you know having all the amenities in the south building and was that you know the right move or you know is it is the north building somehow being uh you know neglected in that respect. You know we think concentrating them in one location is really the best thing to do. Certainly the south edge of the south building is going to be a great place for a lot of these things and then on the courtyard that we're creating in the back is the other best place for them. So putting them in that south building seems to make sense. Concentrating them to get the energy up also seems to make sense. And you know the the north building will have better views of the water and probably better distant views. So there may be people that want the privacy and want the view and there may be people that want the amenities and want the kind of direct connection to those. So, I think both buildings can win in that regard. The primary connection between the buildings will still be out on the sidewalk. Although, you can also, as you can see with the little arrows there, you could exit the stair tower on the north building and re-enter the south building from the back from that little terrace in the back by the community room. So, there would be that option, but I think we're trying to activate the street. So ideally, you know, you'll come out the front door and you'll go back in the other other door or into the gym or into the commercial spaces. You can go to the next. This is the view from the inlet. Uh looking into the courtyard uh and then you know obviously seeing artouse off to the left and the black diamond trail to the right. The mosaic

that you see on the right there is a mosaic that would be a mural essentially painted onto the uh CMU block of that stair tower that sits in that corner. You can go to the next Oh, go back for a second. M it may not matter, but just for a second. Uh, I also wanted to add that Jamie is waiting in the waiting room and is needs to be let in so he can address some of the uh landscape and civil plan issues. Yeah, Jamie Genszel from Fagan is uh part of our team and he'll be better able to address some of those things. So, if he can give you let in, that would be great.

Thank you.

The perforated screen that forms the control of the parking area is shown here too. Although it's hard to get a realistic rendering of that and it looks very different during the day from what it looks like during the night. We could show you some examples of what we've done on other projects if that would be helpful. But that's the intent that you see behind those those small flowering trees at on the left building which is the north building. You can go to the next. Um Jamie, if you are let in, I will probably let you walk the group through the landscape plan and bio retention area, which is a question that came up before. Um and any other things you want to point out about about this if you are there?

Sure. Um so pretty much the the landscape plan is a recreation of the previously approved landscape plans. just say it was shifted to to match the the building shift. So what you see is mainly the same pallet and species as was proposed before. Um the one little bit of an addition is on the north side we added uh some some river cobble area with some tall grasses to to break up that area a bit. From a storm water point of view, um the storm water system is is the same. Um just just to take a note back if you may recall we actually reduced the amount of impervious surface on this site with this development. So um so actually you are going to have a better storm water condition than is the existing. However, we did add a bio retention swale, and you can kind of see it there with that dash and triple dot line um kind on on the western side of the building along the the trees there. Um it it follows parallel to an underground connecting storm sewer where we have dry well systems connected with a perforated pipe. It acts as one big bio retention swell to absorb more water, storm water into the the system. So yeah, you can kind of see on the ENS plan. It's better seen in the the utility plan. So that is this the same approach as we provided last time. It's it's being replicated here. Um one issue was that one of the leaders wasn't hitting the the swale at the right spot. So that that's maybe why there was a little confusion there. Do you have a slide after this, Miriam, or is that the last slide?

Yeah, that this is the last slide. Okay. And so that's just a general erosion cement sedimentation plan. You know, the the site requires obviously a full swip and that's what we're what we're providing.

All right. Thank you very much. that presentation. Um, I think what we want to do, mindful of the time, move on to the public hearing and open that up. Do I have a motion to open? Jenny Mo moves. Second by uh Emily. All in favor? Okay. All in favor? So now uh public the public hearing is open and we do have uh Mike uh signed up to speak to this uh Yeah. I can't read the last name. I can't.

No, apparently not. Okay. Okay. Is there anybody online? No. Okay. Can I have a motion to close? Moved. Seconded. Thank you. We all agree. Okay. Um I think uh we one uh action that we wanted to do is um vote on the amended uh secret determination. We've seen that uh we worked through uh that uh last time. Um are there any uh changes that we should be aware of? Uh Nikki,

um you'll see in the Thanks Max. You'll see in the packet that they did answer a lot of the questions we had. The one change we have to make we have to make before we actually put it in the NEG deck is that they are keeping the bio swell. So on page two I'll just make sure it's not that it doesn't have Yeah, that's that's my fault. I apologize for the confusion from before. Yeah, that's okay. That's that's easy enough to do. But just so the board knows that's what you're Yeah. Yep. And but if you have any questions about anything else Yeah. The bio was a question, so now it's answered. Um anything come to mind on that? Uh Emily?

Thank you. Um, I'm looking at page five. Um, under impact on aesthetic resources. It's really a question since we're opening this up. I'm looking at the first bullet point there that talks about the pool. [snorts] Do do we leave it because it was part of the previous process. There's no pool anymore. Do we cross it out? We can cross it out. Okay. I think we'll cross it out. Okay. Thank you, Emily. Good catch. I also wanted to bring up impact on transportation page seven. And just clarify, how many spots are proposed? I think it's six. That is correct. Six on street. Is that right? On street.

So there's a spot where it says seven and a spot where it says six. I just wanted to make sure that it's six across the board. There's a comment too on the city of engineering. It looks like in the city of engineering notes, it said it appears the current proposal would remove the street parking proposal. I think they were I think it was from a previous Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's probably true because when we when we started this amended proposal, we had a con contiguous tree lawn there and then the pardon has been added based on comments and revisions. On page seven, it says seven somewhere, Emily. Yeah. Where does I didn't I don't see it. I just text.

Um it's it's spelled out in words. The site will accommodate onsite parking spaces for residential parking and seven parallel parking spaces along Cherry. Got it. It does say six below, but I just wanted to six. Make sure that seven gets changed to six. Okay, I have Yeah, that's it for me. That's it for you.

I like the toe path. I think that's really neat. I'm just curious what that'll kind of be made out of. And then, you know, I might be too tight, but any opportunity to also have it turn around the north side of the building to kind of make for like a nice walking loop. Um, maybe there's not enough room there, but just a thought. Let's come back to that because I I wanted to ask if there's some things for the next time for them. Oh, sorry. We're still just focusing on secret determination. Yep. My bad.

No, no, that's okay. Anything else, Andy? Emily, Jenny on the seeker, are we okay to go ahead? Uh, can I have a motion to Emily? Andy seconds. So, all in favor or do we have to do roll call? Yeah, roll call. Andy. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I mean, yes. Okay. Thank you. So, we had the secret determination. So that this would be Jenny, why don't you keep the floor uh because things I think what we need to we need to wrap this up because we need to move on the next project but things for them to think about for the next discussion. You already raised one. So

yeah, just curious what the toe path is made out of. I think that's awesome. I think that's a great feature. Curious wrap around the building and just wanted to say I I think the pet station is really wonderful and sort of thank you for incorporating that into your plans. Um that was all I had. Okay, Emily. No, I have nothing to add. Thank you. Yeah. No, thanks for the presentation and I really appreciate all of the amenities and all the thought into the site work for an affordable housing project. And I guess you know for next time I just love to hear again from Todd you know his thoughts on this building and the management plan and safety and the you know services as well. Thanks.

Yeah. And those specific points are on the management the security and the support services right. Yeah. So Isn't this like a workforce housing project?

This is Yeah, this is we we I don't I don't know if you want us to address the comments now or or at a subsequent meeting, but this has a little different population than than we addressed at the citizen. So, we're happy to talk further about that, but we did thoughtfully think through uh the security as well as we made a determination not to seek access along the northern border of the prop of the of the building. Um, we can talk about that. Specifically, we wanted to direct traffic um to the existing trail um and really maximize that as well as maximizing uh the sidewalk along Cherry Street, but we can talk about that. I don't know if you want to do it now or another time, but do it whenever. Let's let's do it next time. Okay.

So, kind of just collecting things we'd like you guys to follow up on. So, that that would be one the accountability issues. Yeah. Okay. Emily, sorry. Um I had trouble reading um some of the drawings. There is uh let me pull it up. It's the landscape plan drawing specifically that has a chart. The which page the chart was completely illegible. I think it's just a resolution issue. C007. Yep. Yeah. I had that one too. Uh and we just we couldn't read the words on the chart at all. So yeah, I I noticed that when uh I was looking at the agenda materials. We'll make sure that that's easier to to read. Thank you.

Yeah. And thanks for pointing out the flow between the buildings and the courtyard and uh especially from the north building to the south. That was helpful to me. That was a question I had. Um, okay. I think what we'll do is wrap up here with this project for tonight and we'll move on to the next one. So, we'll look forward to continued discussions next time. Okay. Everybody's time. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you.

All right. Um let's move on to the uh next u site plan review. This 309 College Avenue Apartments. And uh tonight we do have a public hearing uh uh scheduled. And we also want to kind of review the uh seeker uh planning and and uh some of the what's needed for that. But I think maybe to facilitate the public hearing, we could have a little presentation and move forward if you'd like.

Sure. Yeah. Nick and I had a question. I mean, did do we normally present and then open it up to the public or do we have the public comment first? Well, this is a discussion we had earlier. Yeah. [clears throat] Because we we um we talked about this earlier. We thought it'd be good to have a presentation first so if there is public uh comment uh that they could be informed by the by the presentation. Okay. Is that all right? Yeah.

So Nick uh was traveling and with the storms got stuck. Not a bad place to be stuck. So I don't feel so bad for him. But he's going to join uh I think he's in the Bahamas right now joining us remotely. Um so I think Nick's planning to start. We got Nick on here with us now. Okay. Okay. Nick's not on yet. No. Is QPK on? Yeah, we have Vincent and Karen. There's Dick. Yes. Perfect.

Hey Sam, is it possible to raise the volume? Just one or two clicks on that. Thank you. self to speak. Nice. Hopefully that's better. All right, floor is yours. Thank you. I believe Nick's gonna kick us off here. Zach, can you hear me? Yes.

Okay. Sorry about that. All right. So, appreciate the opportunity to present today. I think, you know, we had a couple things in mind coming out of our our last presentation. There were some um planning board comments, things like views from Lynden and um some minor architectural items. Um, but I think a lot of the focus was around uh some of the comments that were outlined in the letter that Josh Loward had submitted and we were encouraged to respond to. And so I think we have a presentation to touch on some of the the modifications and evolution of the design over the past month. And I guess quickly before we get started, I'd ask the board, is it is it more appropriate for us to kind of dive into some of those thoughts around the concerns outlined in the letter before or after the public hearing?

Before we're gonna do the presentation before. Yep. Okay. All right. Well, then what we'd like to do is I'm gonna hand it off to QBK to kind of go through their presentation. and then um Charlie and I will circle back with kind of points relative to some of what had been previously um outlined in that letter and then we'll go from there. Great. Can you see my screen? Yes.

Okay, great. Hi, Aaron from QPK. Um we updated some of the renderings here that you're going to see and show you some of the changes uh specifically concerning the comments from the last meeting. So here is a rendering of the front elevation and we've enhanced the rendering of uh 307 the adjacent building just for some better context. Um I think much of the conversation was about um the crossing and how we can better [clears throat] improve this as an amenity um to all users. Uh this um diagram at the bottom sort of just indicates where our extended new alleyway is adjacent to the existing alleyway. The existing alleyway again is uh not pochade. Uh we have the new portion of the paving uh pocheted at that lower diagram. The other thing that we did want to discuss was again the alignments um with the adjacent property and what we felt were uh strong alignments keeping consistent with sort of the pedestrian portal while allowing the the college town crossing proper to remain um truly what it really has been established as. Um so we felt that this um existing situation strengthens uh the best of the architecture on both sides. Um this next plan is sort of a rendered view of our landscape improvements. Um so what we've done at the front is we've and we'll show you in more detail. Uh we've placed in a permanent planter. Um, so we don't have just removable or movable um, sort of pots and plants. Um, and then in the back we've got some additional um, green space. Uh, we've

planted a tree at the back where the transition of the alley going towards Lynon, the path back. Um, so we've really tried to make some placemaking um, through this. So the experience is, you know, green, fresh, and enlivened. Um, [clears throat] in the back of our building at 309, uh, we've got access, um, to our back exiting point. And we have also some, um, bike rack storage access back there. And again, we'll show you some additional views of that. This is a view um, looking sort of um, from 307 towards the front, looking towards the back at 309. We're recommending or suggesting um some additional plantings that can happen with bench seating. So again that there's sort of a placemaking not just a thorough fair through there. Um this is the diagram of the site plan proper that shows our elevations needed for accessibility. Out the back we have uh both a stair and then a sloped ramp to get down to the level. So once we are down um we are at the same level uh with the 309 the crossing walkway. So now the experience can be at that same level all the way through. Uh this next slide um shows what we've done to accommodate concerns with any trash. Uh we have expanded the trash room um quite a bit. So, we've actually done computations for the amount of trash that's going to be um going through on a daily basis. So, we've expanded that. There's no intention that any trash or trash bins or dumpsters

will sit outside. Everything can be contained interior. Um so, you can see in the lower diagram, uh prior we had a smaller trash room. We've almost tripled it. Um this is another view and another um thing that we've done is we thought we would put in sort of a decorative screen so that it's not a full you know fully blocked situation but it can sort of screen and any of that trash area so that during the time when trash is being trans transported out of the room uh it sort of just gives a little bit of a screen and it makes you know a nice screening between the two buildings. Um again the site plan with more of the details that we can reference if we want to come back to that. Um and then we've taken some additional views um so we can see how this placem place making really looks. Um we get the opportunity to have open sky over at the back end there. So this is the view as to uh when the pathway then comes up towards uh Lynden. Uh, and then we we want to have the conversations about best places um to put the bike racks. As you can see on the left here, we're indicating that there's some place that may make sense where it's wide enough so that it's not interfering fully with the pedestrian traffic. Uh, this is the view. Um now [clears throat] looking right down that um back of 309 uh the steps and then at the very back of the wall is the bike rack storage that's covered. Um it was also requested at the last meeting that we show you some uh views from Lynen. Um so you can see behind the the blue house there behind the wires

there. Uh you can see the top edge of the building from that view. And then we sort of went up the street a little bit more so you can sort of see how it looks u a little bit higher up from the from the road. Um again these are the elevations. I don't think really much has changed from our last meeting here. So we have all the views of all the elevations and then again just the overview of the whole um site and planting plan grading plan showing the elevations and then we have the photometrics from the illumination. So um we've heard that you know we really want to keep this very well illuminated. So, we have the opportunity to really tune that. And then one other thing that we can show you, um, we have a quick video walk through. Are you let Are you seeing that?

No. Oh, okay. Let me You might need to stop sharing and then share again. Yeah.

Flip through. Okay. Let me escape out of that. Okay. I don't know. Chris, are you there? Maybe you'll have better luck trying to get that video on. There we go. Try one more time. There we go. Are you seeing that?

Yes.

Okay. So, there's the front planter. So, we'll have permanent plantings there. and coming around. Seeing the plantings and the benches, the additional planning at the back, the transition off to the right and then coming through to the back here. the ramp up to the bike storage and around. And that's our presentation.

Great. Thank you very much. All right. With that, I think uh we're ready to uh open uh public hearing. Do I have a a motion? Emily. Andy seconds. Quick question. We we we will we do definitely want to comment tonight on some of the public comments we've gotten so far. So, will we have an opportunity to do that after the P Okay, great. Okay. So, I think we're open. Uh we have someone signed up. Uh Brody. Yeah, shorty Smith. Before I begin, I pass out my notes.

That's a different You have three minutes. If you're both going to speak, you're both going to speak. Uh, I may not speak at all. Yeah, we'll start when you start. I just wanted to pass those down so everyone has one for Yeah. before I start.

Let me know when you're ready and I'll begin. You're all set. It's all you guys.

My name is Brody Smith. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you. I'm an attorney at Bon Shenik and King and I represent the neighbor um College Town Crossings. Uh Josh Lowour spoke to you before. His property is located at 309 immediately to the south of the subject property. It was approved in 2014. It's a six-story apartment building and um there's some unique features to it which I think you've heard about uh the introduction to some of that. there's this um pedestrian passageway that provides access from Lynden to College Town on this long block and it was a major component of the conversation of this board um and my client when they were approved in 2014 and there was a you know a need for better bicycle and pedestrian access in Collegetown there and this was a safe and inviting way to provide it and my client um was very happy to do it and did some significant redesigns to the building in order to accommodate it in the most safe and welcoming way. Um, I included a part of the seeker findings from the 2014 approval of the project where it talks about the need for this design feature, namely the pedestrian passageway. And the reason being is if you add a lot of density, if you add um apartment buildings, it's necessary to provide that additional pedestrian access, especially when students are going to be accessing the campus by foot and by bicycle. On the second page, there's a rendering. On the top, you see um a red arrow that shows the ceiling line on the entry to that passageway. That's the pass through through the block. And then below that there's a photograph where you see that from a street view um as it appears today. It's very important that that taller ceiling and the lighting be

inviting in order for young people to feel safe using this access way especially at night and especially in college town. Also um the entry the entry point to the building for students is on the side of the building. So for a college town crossing, that's the main access point where residents come and go in the building is on that side. It's very important for that and and the planning board felt very strongly that the entry point be taller, that ceiling be taller um at least, you know, at the beginning of the block. On the third page, you see it from the side and you can see that first bay essentially of the building has the heightened ceiling. Um, and that that's really what the design feature we want to maintain that allows light and visibility. Um, you know, there's glass on the side there so the pedestrians feel safe and secure at night. On the bottom of that page, you see a red line and a blue line. And this is the part of the project which uh we would like to see changed is the blue line is the lower ceiling height.

I'm sorry, there's three minutes. Okay. So, thank you very much. We do these Yes. Okay. Yeah. Would you like to I can actually It's with the same uh group. It my our only concern continues to be the trash location should be backup house, not to the side near the entrance of the existing building.

May I use a minute or two of John's time just to comment on the trash to make help that make that better understood? Okay, I'll skip skip ahead to the trash then. So, if you look to the um uh number three in my notes, you see the the trash room is located on the south of the building opposite from the door that residents use to access the crossings. Um that is not optimum. That trash room ought to be located in the back of the building, not across the street from our front door. Um the next page you see there was some screening added which is different from before. We don't really support that screening. We think that creates more of a tunnel effect not less of one when at when that screening is added to the property line. The other thing I would highlight is that bench area that is um circled in red. That is something that is on Mr. Lowour's property. that is not something that he's consent to do or supports. This is something that they added to their project that is not on their property. And as in the last page, the the bike racks that they added under number four, again, that's on Mr. Lowour's property, and that's not something that um he's been asked about. So, I appreciate your indulgence. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Right. Was there were there any other people Nobody online. Okay. Uh, can I have a a motion to close the public hearing? Emily Andy seconds. Everybody in favor? Okay. So, the hearings are closed. Uh, I I think it's now your floor to respond. Okay, thank you. I think Nick wants to respond first and I plan to follow Nick. Okay.

All right. Um, I appreciate the opportunity to respond. Obviously, consistent with all of our projects, um we take an approach to be neighborly and to try to make sure that we are adding to the to the neighborhood in the community, [clears throat] not being detrimental. And so I just want to touch on a couple of things that I think speak to the concerns and points made here, which is, you know, before we even had a letter of opposition or expressing any level of concern, like we met with Josh Lowour and basically heard his concerns and what he was focused on. Um we had a lot of conversation about this alleyway in initial concepts that we imagined we were building right to the lot line including on the ground floor. Uh since then we have decided to kind of respect and try to be additive to this pedestrian crossing that um we understand the history of we understand its benefits. So you know we have forfeited rentable square footage on our ground floor to expand that alley. Um that was a commitment that we made after meeting with Josh. Um we are doing pretty extensive contemplation of lighting plans. We agree that this alley, you know, needs to feel safe. It needs to feel activated. One of the things that Josh had asked us to consider was to try to uh activate that space, make it feel more like kind of a plaza with different entrances into the building. And so we've programmed our fitness which will have glazing. Um we've programmed our retail along this space. You know, we don't like we could have put dead wall right along the property line, but like we have gone every step of the way to try to really make sure that we're doing as much as we

can to be respectful to this building to the south. And so, you know, there are certain things we're trying to do. There are certain things that we struggle with like the height of the portal. Um as the design team spoke initially like we do have concerns about matching the height you know for a variety of reasons. We think it's detrimental to our architecture and our design and we also don't think it's critical to support kind of their design and we don't think it's going to create any meaningful um reduction in in lighting. We already have one of the main things that we did to really support Josh's building and ours was if you look at our building plan from an aerial perspective, we've essentially try to mirror his light wells all the way from the ground to the ceiling which is going to introduce and drop light down into that space from above as well as protect his lighting to his units um to his buildings. So like we feel like we are trying to be really good neighbors. We're trying to um design our building in a way that is uh protective of his building to the greatest degree possible. There are certain things that we also can't do like the trash, right? So, we we spent a lot of time talking about the trash and we understand the concerns about the trash. Uh nobody wants to see trash spilling out into the alleyway. Um we see that as a managerial problem, not a design problem. You know, if you look at our site, the grade increases pretty substantially as you work from south to north. And so, we need a way to get the trash out of our building. We have a retail tenant. We have 112 beds. This this project will generate a significant amount of trash. the logical, you know, uh, pathway out of the building is exactly as we've got it locate located because we need to

have reasonable grade from our trash room out to the street. And, you know, we've dealt with this on many other projects where uh, trash service providers like Cassella have significant concerns about large amount of trash, you know, being carted or pushed up steep grades. you know, they want to be able to allow the trash to safely be be maneuvered to the trucks. And so, you know, we really don't have a solution for the north because of the grade. Um, we need to come out the southside. We're not going to take the trash through our lobby and our amenity area. Um, you know, so what we've really done is we've talked to Josh and really I should I mean Charlie is doing the majority of the the communicating with Josh. you know, he had offered up, you know, whether or not we could take it out the back of the building to Lynen. Um, we're trying to explore whether that's viable. We're having conversations with Cassella. Um, we will entertain all requests, all suggestions that are reasonable and additive to our project, but there just some things that we can't do. And you know, we need to make sure that we protect the programming of our building in addition to trying to be respectful uh of the programming of theirs. And so we feel like we've taken a lot of steps in the right direction to be good neighbors. Um but unfortunately, you know, at certain point we can't can't do everything. And so I think the trash really continues to probably be the biggest issue. Um, we're not done evaluating it, but we are continuing to, you know, try to figure out if we can come up with a solution. And with that, I'll let Charlie add some of his comments.

Thanks, Nick. Charlie.

Yes. Thank you, Nick. And we appreciate Josh's comments this evening. Um, yeah. No, I think Nick and I are aligned just like every project we've done. You know, we have 60 apartment buildings throughout the city of Ithaca, and we try to have a great relationship with all of our neighbors. So, you know, I know Josh well. him and I have a relationship over many years. I have a lot of respect for the Lowour family. Um they've built a great reputation throughout our community as good landlords. Josh did a great job building the crossings here and obviously he named his building after this throughway, right? So obviously it's uh it's very important to him and Nick and I realized how important it was to Josh when we met prior to our submission for January's planning board submission and we kind of based our design based a lot around our meeting which you know Josh had said you know he wants to enhance this crossing he wants to activate it so we did that you know we wrapped the glass and the glazing around our commercial front uh to sort of highlight along the south side of the building the commercial which sort of energizes that space and allows you to see into our commercials tent which um I think really enhances that space. We gave a second exit from the commercial space to the crossing. So that'll help drive traffic into that space. Uh we have our second means of egress for our stair that discharges into that space. And then we have another egress in the rear of our building that gets folks to funnel through this crossing. So um he had asked for some windows. Um we talked about lighting and we think that's a priority. You know, we're really struggling with raising the height. you know, architecturally we don't think it's necessary. We think it really takes away from our buildings. We had meetings with our partners on this and you know, we really like our design the way it is. Um, you know, this is an as of right project. We're not seeking variances, you know. And then the other thing is is we've really like we've kind of gotten restricted to where this trash can be brought out the building at this point because we have a trash shoot that needs to come off the center corridor and we want our trash room to communicate with our commercial tenant. So, it makes

sense that they don't have to bring their trash outside of their commercial building outside, drag it through wherever, and then bring it back into the building. We want them to be able to exit the back of their commercial space, get it into our trash room. And, you know, the screening was just a gesture, and that's what I met with Josh. I said, "Look, we'll look at some architectural features that we can do." Because we actually met after we received his comments. Um, we met about two weeks ago, and um, it was great because Brody was at the meeting. another one of Josh's, I think Trevor was his name, another one of his attorneys was there and uh John the architect on the crossing project was there. So, we had a very productive meeting. I think Josh was coming from a good place. You know, he wants to try to help enhance the design, come up with ideas that work, but you know, there's just certain things that I think are going to work and aren't going to work. And, you know, right now we're really struggling with where we can push the trash to make that work. Um, I was hoping to reconnect with Josh prior to this meeting so we could be on the same page. And I just think, you know, maybe it's best that, you know, us and Josh and his team meet uh in a more productive setting and place where they don't have three minutes to share their side and we can, you know, spend more time to uh try to align, you know, what we can and can't do. And I think for Nick and I, you know, it would be helpful for us to hear from the board this evening a little bit on, you know, maybe how you feel about uh the front of the building and how it aligns with the crossing um and maybe what your thoughts are on the trash. And as far as like the the wall and extending the sitting area onto Josh's property and the bike racks, I don't know if you saw the the letter, but the third request was host the bike rack. So, it was just an idea we threw out there to lessen all the bike requirements because we need 23 of them uh in the rear of our building. And then the the the last thing was um Josh and I had kind of spoke in our last meeting about maybe like participating and trying to you know the problem is is because of the grade at the sidewalk and we need to create like a curb that sort of ramps up from like the middle of that crossing and it goes all the way up to the far southeast side of our property

line. [clears throat] We thought it wouldn't really be a great look to put like a curb with like a railing on it that would become a tripping hazard. So, what I had suggested to Josh was maybe we could create like a planting box area. We could create some seating. And again, that was just a thought. So, um I hope we didn't offend Josh by, you know, putting this there, but we had actually talked about, you know, considering some of this and I thought he was open to the idea. So, if I misunderstood, you know, we're happy to scale any of that back here and put everything back onto our property. So, um but yeah, if the board could give us some feedback for our planning, that would be very helpful. So, thank you.

Thanks, Charlie. Um, it sounds like the discussions are still fluid. So, that's that's important for us to know, but I think now is a good time for the uh board to give some feedback and and thoughts. Andy, I I'm locking eyes with you. Let's

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Charlie and Nick. And I really appreciate, you know, the spirit of working together and you offering, you know, to meet again. Um, so I guess you know I absolutely feel like you're enhancing this crossing and it was it's really interesting to hear that you came in thinking you were going to do a building on the lot line and then you you basically from the you know gate offered at least to us you know you're presenting this wider crossing which I think is great and I think it's really interesting. I like the seating. I like the screen. I mean, I think everything you're doing is making it more interesting in terms of the height. I mean, I guess it could be interesting to see what it would look like if it were higher. I just tonight for the first time noticed f first um I thought maybe that whole um that whole edge was canlevered, but then I looked closely and it looks like you have steel are those steel columns supporting the edge there. So, you have these really skinny steel columns. You know, I'm not sure how that would look two stories that feels too thin. Um, and then if if you made a thicker column, then you know, you're you're sort of pushing down your you know, your the width of your gateway there. Um, you know, the one thing that is interest I think the the college town crossing is a great building and I think one thing that's that's unique is that the column is pushed back. Um, and your building is coming forward. So that would be the only reason I would think to maybe explore pulling that up. Um, but I'm I'm kind of on the fence about it. I'm not really giving you clear direction. I mean it might be interesting to see it you know just again given that those columns those

twotory columns and the face of the building are pushed in and you are pulling out. So you you are kind of blocking um the visual just to that college town building but at the same time you're making it wider. So I'm kind of on the fence there. Those would be my comments. Emily,

thank you. Um, I appreciate the dialogue. Um, we are hearing it for the first time tonight. So, I think as it evolves, we could keep talking about it. But, uh, my reaction to what I heard was enhancing. I don't think we need two, um, crossings. Um, I don't think we need a wider crossing. I think everything you're saying to enhance the existing crossing would be the goal. Um, and before hearing sort of both sides, um, I came in thinking it's actually better lower. Uh, that may be unpopular, but I think, um, the storefront, if we're looking at the storefront aligning with adjacent storefronts, that's sort of in the College Town guidelines, and that seems like the thing to align and not the crossing. The crossing is um, is already there. It's already existing. and what we really are looking to to match is more of the fabric along um the sidewalk and the streetscape. So that was sort of my perspective coming in that the architecture of the proposed building and that datim is better lower matching the storefront um on the neighbors building. Seems like there's a lot of details to work out whether the plants will live the benches and the screens. I do really appreciate you pulling your building back on that first level to give space to the crossing even though the height is not there, the width is there so it doesn't feel like a tunnel and I think that is the right move.

Good amilie. Thank you very much, Jenny. Yeah, I don't think I have anything else to add. I've been trying to parse out what the crossing looks like because it it extends into two other buildings on the back side. Is that right? like it goes into these other and I guess I'm just curious what that looks like on the other half of it. Drive by. I just haven't done that.

I mean, so Josh owns the building direct behind the crossings and he's got sort of I think his driveway area, parking areas there, which kind of funnels them naturally up through that section and then um Ike owns the three buildings to the north of that right along Lynden here. And Ike and I actually met last night. We had a long talk about this project and I shared things with him and he had a very positive response to everything. So said he loved it. So I thought that was that was good that he he he uh but he did actually he had some of the same concerns as Josh. You know he wanted to make sure that we were activating the space. Um he had a comment about the garbage and when I explained like the challenges we're having I think he understood that part of it. Um so is there any feedback on like the garbage too? is I mean, you know, we're we're really struggling with trying to figure out how to, you know, move it and, you know, we can't drag drag our garbage through like the lobby of our building, you know.

I mean, do you want a totally random idea? And I do am not obviously an architect. I work in public health. So, just please bear with me. This is probably not a good idea at all. But you know what about moving the garbage to the front of the building, sliding over your main 309 entrance and then having the entry of the restaurant like in part of the crossing area or having you know I don't know just like if you could if you would move it away from the restaurant so you wouldn't be able to just dump the garbage from the restaurant right into it. So maybe that's his other idea why it would work. But I'm just wondering maybe you could get it in that top corner of the building where the 309 is, which I love and I think it's very beautiful. Slide that over a little bit and then somehow make the residential entry a little more in the middle and then the entry into the retail area could actually maybe come in from the the walkway. Again, I'm really spitballing. Not not my forte, but sometimes you just throw things at the wall.

You have another thing, Andy? Well, I just I I appreciate the difficulty and I think you are really trying and I think this is a management issue more than anything else. How you you know keep that area clean, how you keep the doors closed, how the trash, you know comes in and out. Yeah. And I would add Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Nick.

I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. I I would just add one of the things if you look at our previous submissions to what we presented tonight, we have increased the size of the trash room dramatically and that was really in response to these conversations because um to your point, you know, it is a management issue. you know, this is a really complicated puzzle, you know, because you you think I mean this is a really narrow site and so there's only so much room along College AB to kind of fit the various programming elements and Charlie talked about, you know, the retail location in relation to the trash. Like we want trash to efficiently get into a room that is right sized to house the trash until the point it needs to leave. And you know, after having all this dialogue with Josh and team, we kind of went back and said, you know what, we better reserve a lot more space here just to make sure that we have the capacity to manage it properly. And so that's just if you look at our iterations, it's something you'll notice.

Emily, go ahead. How often does trash get taken out? I I don't see the problem here really because it seems like the trash is enclosed. that's behind doors. It's not in the crossing. It gets taken out by building management maybe once or twice a week and then at night in the morning it's brought back in and and closed. So I think it's the perfect spot for it. Um I don't know. Let's keep talking about it and hear your thoughts, but I don't I don't see the problem. I

think in addition to it being a management issue, it's a practical issue. And so I think that kind of um I would second kind of what you're saying, but I think um I'm glad you guys are continuing to talk about it. And so maybe there's a a solution that we haven't thought about yet. So I think that that would be good. I think there's a lot of uh give and take here. Uh the uh crossing looks like it's going to be really wonderful. I mean, I think it's a good thing. And so let's not lose sight of that as we move forward. But I was kind of struck uh like Andy is like I like a lot of the elements of that. And I like, you know, I I realize there's there's property uh issues in terms of where bike racks are and all that, but I mean that's is something that I would think that some kind of cooperative kind of uh attitude towards this could resolve those those issues. So we'll be looking forward to seeing what more developments we have in this and continue to talk. So I think we'll stop the discussion there. Uh did you want to add something?

Do you want to has to Yeah. Just that the the applicant should should take a look at the the FIFA part three that was in the agenda um and respond to all the highlighted sections. Yes. And we and we specifically put what sections you should be focusing on. So next time if you can make sure but the more you're getting up front. Yep. Also followed up over email too. Okay. All right. Emily,

sorry I should have added these in my comments. Um I would love to talk about the far east wall next time. The retaining wall. Um, I think it's a six foot difference. And so I'm curious, is there a railing at the top? Is does the six feet encompass something for safety for the upper parking lot? Um, and also I couldn't read the the foot candles on the lighting plan. I think it's a PDF translation issue. It was really blurry. So, thank you. Good. All right. That said, I think we have everything for tonight uh for 309 College Avenue, and we'll look forward to seeing you guys next month.

Thank you. Sorry, just one more thing for the trees. If we just landscape next time thinking of the understory tree, I can tell someone worked on that. Who knows? I Yeah, those are be really important since it's in the shade. Thank you. Thank you. It's all right.

All right. Uh we'll move on now with our next site plan review. Fingerlakes uh reuse site improvements. Uh we're looking at we'll have a public hearing for that. uh also design review, secret review and a potential secret determination. But I think what we want to do is um start with a a presentation uh in case we have any public comment that will be added. So do we have the folks in the room? Yeah, we have Andrew with us. Andrew, uh hi, I'm joining from Fingerlicks Reuse today. Okay. And we only have you Andrew. Is that right? or other people going to join. That is right.

I mean, you are enough, but we want to make sure. [clears throat] Yeah, we we've swapped one Andy for another Andy on the team today. Um, but I hope I hope to fill his big shoes. All right. Well, the floor is yours. All right. Well, perfect. Um, I will share my screen.

Okay. Hi, Max. Um, I just have a question before Andy gets started. Um, I wanted to just declare to the public and to the board that I work with Andy Sharaba on other projects. I am in no way involved with this reuse project, but just wanted to make that clear. Thank you. Thank you, Emily. That's very helpful. Thank you. Perfect. Okay.

Okay. So, um to kind of re uh acquaint everybody with the project, um this is for the site improvements at the Itha Rio Center at 214 Ammyra Road. Our uh main property um abutment is to the Elmyra Road uh street um to the south. uh generally so our uh existing building materials yard is in this kind of uh west corner of the property with our existing kind of storage containers and grass pavilion area um to the south. Our parking is focused on the uh west and the south of the main Ithaca Ru Center building um with the donation uh uh drop off flow occurring east of that um with our uh dumpster and metal recycling. Um we have an auxiliary structure to the east of that as well. Um, and tonight we're really going to focus on the uh kind of comments that the committee had um and the changes that we made. Okay. So, um overall um we've stayed pretty consistent on the west side of the uh site. um really continuing to formalize that parking on the west side um with our uh storage containers relocated to the back with a privacy fence um blocking that from the street. Um we have a uh left turn, right turn as well as entry um defined pathway for that curb cut. Um, we've moved our electric vehicle parking from the uh those south those southern three spots to actually be the four uh spots located

south of the building. Um, we've also added um where the building materials awning is being relocated from the west of the building or the west of the site to directly uh west of our main building. Um, we're adding a fence around that to add additional kind of uh vehicle safety from uh kind of coming into contact with those awning posts. Um, the we additionally have added a fence on the back side of the building to close off the back of house operations. Um, we also have our uh uh plantings um to help to uh reduce the visibility of the parking along Elmyra Road. Um we've spoken with the uh city engineer and we are able to utilize our curb cut that we have on this property here. So given that we are going to uh remove the paving to make it not continuous on site from the donations on the east side of the property to the west side and instead after a don a donor drops off their materials, they will be uh able to turn right back onto road and either continue down the street or uh turn into our patron parking area. Um, in that addition, we've been able to really add additional greenery on the site as well as a pedestrian walkway um to hopefully increase the kind of circulation that we can have on the site. Um, and on the uh east awning for those donations, we're additionally adding ballards to uh protect the uh posts as well as really define that

pathway for the donor vehicles. Uh just briefly, uh that circulation di uh the circulation and planting plan um starts to really identify those pedestrian pathways. So, we're going to have two um direct access ways. So, that's going to be the uh crosswalk um through the parking space, the parking uh on the southwest of the building. And then this walkway uh that we were able to add with that greening area. Um vehicle traffic. So, we have a left right turn out of the site as well as an entry um to the south. uh a right turn only from this uh donation circulation pathway, an entry and exit, which we're are really emphasizing for back of house operations, as well as the employee parking space. Um and our existing entry and exit down here that we use for back of house operations, including the dumpster uh drop off and return. Um the vegetation like I said is really um focused to really add uh that uh parking obstruction as well as the asphalt cooling um that's called forward in the design guidelines. Um the photo uh metric plan also emphasizes the proper lighting of the parking spaces as well as really benefit us in improving our back of house lighting as well as the lighting for these awning structures. Um and then we've added an erosion and sediment control plan as well as the notes. Um, and to kind of get a little bit more detail on the awnings, those are uh 12 feet by 60 feet on both sides.

Um, one for the donations, one for the uh raw or building materials. The elevations of those work to really uh cover that donation entrance door as well as provide us cover for the building materials on that west side. Uh those are those in rendering which you can see those ballards in front of that donation door. Uh those donation posts to really uh protect them from vehicle traffic. And then the awning perspectives with uh coloring that our fabricator has provided to us. And I just want to conclude with um a statement that Andy shared with me um in regards to our approach with the design guidelines. So Fingerlakes Reuse Inc. is the current owner of the Ithaca Reuse Center uh located at 214 Elmyra Road. The Ithaca Reuse Center falls within the Elmyra Road Meadow Street corridor included in the design guidelines prepared by Trowbridge and Wolf Landscape Architects dated August 24, 2000. The guidelines for the corridor focus on redevelopment of commercial properties. Fingerlakes Reuse wishes to make site improvements to remove paving, add green space, improve site drainage, and formalize parking, loading zones, and donation areas at the site. The proposed improvements align with many of the design guidelines as the project enhances the existing Elmyra Road right ofway by adding new street trees. Provides a new sidewalk linking smoothly to the existing walk along Elmyra Road. Utilizes an existing drop curb as an exit lane to separate dropoff and patron parking areas. Delineates entrance and

exits and right and left turn lanes. formalizes parking and travel lanes to promote safe access to the Ithaca reuse center. Removes approximately 02 acres of the imperous surfaces for a total of 10% site acreage. Um adds shade trees and landscaped areas to increase the parking lot to screen the parking lots. Apologies. Um moves storage and utility areas to the rear of the property and screens them. Adds lighting to the parking areas. adds bicycle parking. Although the project may not adhere strictly to all the design guidelines, Fingerlakes Reuse has done its best to prioritize vehicular and pedestrian safety, the reduction of imperous surfaces, and screening of back of house activities while balancing the limited grant funding available to make this project a reality. With that, that kind of concludes all I have in terms of sharing the project at this stage. All right, Andrew. Thank you very much. Um, I don't know that we have anybody wants to make public comments, but we could open up the public hearing. Do I have a motion? Andy, so most Emily seconds. Everybody in favor? Yes. So, the public hearing is now open. Uh, Sam, do we have any?

Do not. And I don't see anybody in the room, which is very different than it did before. So, uh, may I have a motion to, uh, close? Thanks. Everybody's eager to get any second. We're all in favor of that. All right. So, um uh I think that uh is there anything we need to talk about in terms of the seeker review?

Um just that it's an unlisted action. So, we have prepared the SE the shortest reform and hopefully you guys looked at that and that um basically you know lead agency is saying they're not doing much to change. services or organizing the parking improving drainage so finding no impact. Well, I I think that's quite straightforward but does anyone have comments or significant impacts? All right. So, I think uh with that I I can we move on to the secret determination

yeah the negative declaration. Um, so we have a resolution here, right? The green one. I think it's pretty straightforward. I have a motion to adopt to Emily, Jenny. Seconds. Um, we need to do a roll call on this. Andy. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I say yes, too.

All right, Andrew, I think that's all we have for you for tonight. Does anyone have any comments? Yeah, Andy.

Yeah, thanks, Andrew. Excellent presentation. Um, I I sort of thought we we talked about this in the PRC meeting, but I'm not sure. and that has to do with this new curb cut. Um, I think we all love reuse and I'm there once a month donating items and what worries me about this is introducing the new curb cut because when I leave um I want to first of all I want to go back not toward um 13 but back the other way because that's where I live and this is going to force me to go, you know, out on the big busy road that I, you know, that I don't want, it's going to take me longer to get home. So, I don't think that's positive. But for me, when when I do make that left turn to go back to the circle and back to where I live, it's really it's very difficult. It's it's kind of a dangerous turn. Maybe forcing me to go, you know, the other direction is safer, but I'm worried that people are going to ignore that. and you know go the other way. So I actually liked the plan better when you didn't block the flow through

because I'm really worried about that curve cut. so torn because I think there's things about this plan that are definitely stronger like the sidewalk access. It kind of goes straight through and like the pedestrian experience of this plan seems better and I I like that you can drop off and leave and you're not kind of forced to like wind in the old plan that had you winding through where the EV parking was and then back out. But I agree. I al I mean yeah I also drive the other way when I leave and so I suddenly was imagining like everybody who's and it's not like it's a a short block like if you are going if you were actually just trying to go back to South Kyuga you're going all the way down 13 you know all the way down road all the way back on 13 and then potentially taking it right back up Green Street. Um, so I don't know. I also was feeling like I don't I'm not Yeah, I'm not sure what the right trade-offs are here.

Well, I I can pipe in and say I really like this new plan better. Um, I hear what you're saying. I think the right hand turn is the smart move because I've seen I've sat at, you know, the north side plaza unable to make a left. So I if this is the final plan, I really do think that the sign that says right hand only and only allowing right hand. I mean the geometry of the curb cut 2 kind of almost eliminates the left-hand turn because you're they're facing this driveway towards the right hand turn which is kind of what the Trader Joe's uh right-hand turn only does as well. Just with the geometry of it, it makes it so you're less able to turn left. Um, and I I like what you said about the sidewalk, that direct pedestrian access. It's really clear that was lacking before. Um,

and I I just like the separation of the people coming to shop and the the cars coming to drop off and not the ciruitousness of the drop off cars all the way to the south uh west corner. So, so I think this is a big improvement. Yeah, I had I had similar feelings to you, Emily. I I like this uh plan a lot better. The the question of the right turn is and left turns are interesting. So why we uh restrict a turn to be a right turn on the drop off area but not in the main parking area. We have the right turn lane there. What why is that different?

Uh so are you asking in regards to the um left and right down here in comparison? Um, so that's really a nature of that. Uh, I think trying to not get vehicles to be backed up in that exact problem that you're outlining in regards to like it takes a long time to make left turns. And from our um employee kind of operation side, if we have vehicles waiting here for longer than they really have to be, it causes a lot more havoc for our employees as well as our donors who are behind the one that's trying to make the left turn

that we would be experiencing if we have to be um kind of negotiating that left and right turn. could because yeah I see I see the point.

Could I make a suggestion? You know I was there there this week and it was you know after a snow and there was this natural island created by the pathway of cars and where cars don't go which is where that light pole is. Is there any thought to reopening the loop? Because that way you know I could go back I could do what I typically do. you know, I'm either driving, you know, to the store because I want to look at stuff or I want to go home and, you know, I loop around and go out where I came in and you are showing an in and-out, but I see it would cut it might cut out some of your employee parking, but that would allow flexibility there. I'm just I'm

very worried about safety that people are going to think about the U-turns that could happen later. Like if it was me, I would be then be looking I can only speak for I would then be looking for a quick U-turn opportunity somewhere down by hunt. I've done that too and it's it doesn't feel safe. Yeah. I I guess my the U-turn where ends up happening further down Elmmyra Road. Yeah. Yeah. You could turn around in the parking lot pointing that out. Like you could turn right, just turn around in the parking lot. Yes. Left and it's still dangerous. Creek and I would go either way, but that's

I live on South Hill. I'm definitely just going back. Thinking about separation. I'm with Emily. Like the separation makes sense and not through. But I do see what you're saying, too. But I don't know how to get that all. My other comment was going to be about how wonderful it is to have so much planting on Elmmyra Road. And I think that factors into the pros and cons of the curb cuts, how many we're making, what we're sacrificing because this right now is a sort of a plantless desert zone. So to reintroduce these beds is wonderful.

Yeah, it's a huge improvement. Yeah. Is is there any way that someone from the city could weigh in on this because I'm I'm sure this is on their radar because this really is an unsafe to me corridor and I think there was there was like a pedestrian accident not to we we do send this to the engineering every month which they haven't counted but I could make a pointed question that says it's a real traffic issue. I agree good to get some

Yeah. Andy talked directly with uh John Lassutra, I think is what his name is. Um which was just in regards to the existing curb cut being something we can use. Um he might have comments and something to weigh in if we start to inquire about the proper kind of turns and everything off of the site. Yeah, that would it would be good if you followed up that way. We help it would help our discussion. Right. Other comments?

Yeah. I think Andrew, just to clarify, you're basically um reminding us that this new curb cut used to be there, right? Because there's boulders now along the um the grass there, kind of saying it's no longer a curb cut and it's blocked. So, you would be reopening a curb cut that was there before.

Yes. From what I understand, when Elmmyer Road experienced some other um road improvements, including adding the vegetation islands that it has along the walkway. Um the they did not add the they didn't not add in that drive that uh that concrete connection from our parking lot because of the previous client the pre previous owner wasn't using it um is how I've understood it. So those boulders were placed there um to really mark that so that it did not become a uh curb cut for use. So we are re we're we're in classic reuse quality. We're reusing it.

All right. Can we close it off? Can I? Yeah, please.

Just just a quick comment about the landscape. The arborist the forester did ask for and we would like it. The soil remediation and dimensions of the planters within the pavement. Um and then I have some comments on the planting plan. Some of the um shrubs are mislabeled. Um cornice cerasia is actually the red twig cotton red red twig dogwood, but I can talk offline about that. And they're also very leggy, very they will take over any area you plant them in. So just something to consider. Um in regards to those uh uh the planting protections, I apologize. We did include those. Um so we're doing the tree protections. uh the plantings as well as the remediation I believe, but I will talk with Andy about reconfirming that.

Yeah, it looks like tree planting in the paved area looks like we'll Yeah, we'll take a look at that. Thank you. Good. All right. Uh I think we're going to move on and uh the final thing we have is the report director.

Um thank you. had our first meeting of the zoning advisory committee and both Emily and Andy were there. Would you like to give a little report out on that? I'm excited by it. Um I wasn't aware that the entire zoning code is going away and being replaced completely. So I think that's really exciting. Um what do we have to report? It's exciting to get a consultant to help guide the process. It'll be interesting to see success stories from other cities and new zoning practices.

So, we're very happy to have both of you on the committee and um the timeline is about 18 months. Um and we will be very happy to share the slide deck with you.

Yeah, that'd be nice. Um, also, uh, you may have heard that there's a proposal currently that planning brought forward to extend the ability to do planned unit developments, PUDs, citywide. Uh, it's just was introduced to council a couple weeks ago. It's going to go out for circulation um, end of this week, beginning of next week for comments. Uh, we're making the memo now. Uh there's a lot of information that we'll link to for that. Um but uh this board would have you know would is advisory to council and um it would be great if you supplied a recommendation to common counsel. Um someone could come and give a little presentation if you'd like that.

All right. Uh I had a piece of new business that's related to this. Um uh we had discussions before about different things that could inform the zoning discussions uh that you guys are involved with and and also how we might make some uh policy recommendations to the to the council on some of the issues that kind of are on our radar but you know we can't really address in the site plan review directly and um so those um things that I have listed are um green space which we talked about for uh Andy raised sustainable design and also another item matching development with documented need right and so that was a thing and then the new one is this uh uh planned unit development that come so this kind of a little maybe agenda for us and what I wanted to do is propose that we start to add kind of on a one by one um these uh these items uh for discussion at our board meeting as a actually as an agenda item and that would then be uh public. Uh the public could come and they could at the public hearing could give us feedback on some of this. They could listen to what we have to say and so forth. And um I think that's kind of what I would like to to propose and that we in next time have one of these topics uh for uh general discussion. Um what what do you guys think about kids nodding.

Sounds great. Um, it's a great way to increase outreach, I think, and get more opinion from the public. Are you thinking it would be at the beginning of the meeting towards the I don't know. I'm kind of I mean, I this is something we all should discuss. I I've just thought about it at the end, but we might be tired out by then. On the other hand, we keep everybody at bay for for a while. And

it depends. I think if you're going to have staff from other departments come, it depends. you know staff that isn't normally here come then we generally have put that at the beginning and have a time limit to it but if it's just an internal discussion you're correct it might get tired by the by the end it seems to me that a couple of things could be flexible so one week maybe if we have visitors come to give some kind of background information we put them up front and then we can have some questions and stuff and have limited time I think we general discussion. I'd rather have it at the end because otherwise,

you know, we we'll be pressed for time and I don't I a little worried that, you know, we can really have a kind of flow for discussion if we have constrained. Yeah, I agree with you. I'm thinking about the public aspect of it. Um, is it more just to speak with people to inform what we're talking about or is it to sort of engage with public comment? on it.

So what I was thinking is that if we have these discussions and you know these the public meetings that then the public might become interested in that and people might want to offer some feedback for us which I think would be great because kind of helping to inform people in the council they could have some for input but I think if we make policy recommendations as a whole that's that's us you know we're kind of consolidating our thinking and what we get from

Yeah, I was kind of alluding to it, you know, in in that first project, but on my mind is affordable housing. And I don't know, you know, how what we do plays into that, but I think it it must somehow and trying to figure that out. I was gonna suggest and Lisa Lisa I thought um Nells would be a wonderful person Nells Bond works to come and speak a little bit to that at least to get the ball rolling but I don't know if that's what you're

well no I was going to say that as you all learned in your orientation but we never get to reinforce the planning board has multiple areas of practice site plan review is one and there are rules that dictate that, but looking into larger planning issues is another one and recommending policy. Those are separate

functions. We generally spend most of our time on site plan review and that has particular rules and you know you have to stay within those but certainly within your powers and duties to explore as time permits other um planning issues and give recommendations to council if that's what you're talking but that's different than what you do here when you're approving projects.

I'm just spitballing this and like I don't even know if I can make this work but I will test out. I wonder if it's maybe like quarterly topical meetings. So, it's like every three months we have an additional meeting and the topic of that meeting is affordable housing because I do like I'm pretty burnt to a crisp [laughter] at this maybe because we're

um I'm pretty burnt to a crisp by 8:45 and I and I don't think I'm doing my best thinking. Um so I don't know. Yeah, I know. It's just another thought. we could have some kind of um hybrid, you know, that if if we have reports from city officials or something that could be part, you know, kind of on the agenda here as we talked about. Uh and then further discussion we could have could be an additional meeting quarterly or whatever. Fifth Tuesday. Fifth Tuesday, we have one in March actually, I think. And so we could also gauge the size of the the agenda. Agenda. Yeah. Yeah. and maybe keep a little time like we could be a little more staffwise.

Yeah. Yeah. If we had that at the end. But I like quarterly too though. It's all depends on Yeah. I like you could think about it as like a year-long exploration and education period that we have pick the topics that you want and we've figure out how to fit them in,

but as in a way that doesn't make the meetings go till 11 o'clock at night. One one thing for me would be that we have productive discussions and fruitful ones and so you know there there needs to be a little bit of thinking around you know what are the actual questions we want to engage with and what do we want to talk about and so I mean maybe the we could have a kind of a you know the longer quarterly meetings could be ones when we're ready okay here I think we know what we're talking about now this this is time for a you know a twohour meeting where we and just hash this out. Um, and then maybe uh putting on the agenda kind of uh have shorter discussions about kind of trying to prepare for the the more general discussion. See what I'm saying? So we could start to raise some critical issues and then you know that always stimulates you to think what aren't we thinking about because you think you know I forgot why didn't I think of that when that could be a a

and I think the zoning be right of you guys reporting out to to to the other board members could play into that I think unlike you know site plan review and subdivision decisions that you make you could have a subset of people who have the time and interest to sort of develop a proposal for the year for instance um and bring it to the group and say you know so you don't have to do all the work in the meeting it would be perfectly that kind of work could be done outside of meetings if there was a subcommittee of this group that wanted to work on that so it doesn't have to be public yeah that's a question

well I mean I think your discussions about it too could be public but like the planning for what you're going to discuss I I think that is perfectly to have because these aren't binding decisions. Um these this is a great idea. Yeah.

So how do we get started? because we tal when we had our uh sign workshop we kind of tal you know that's where this idea was hatched and I mean we could pick a a topic uh that you know would be intriguing could be the one you raised earlier today Andy could be green space I mean you know that something that's kind of defined uh ideally it would be related to things that are going on in the zoning discussions as well because we'd like to have that give and with with you guys only committee. Um any nominations for a initial topic you did talk about

and there's the putt as well forward. So if there was time to give a presentation and talk through the process and what it is, that would allow you to give them that. I mean, that's just a suggestion. Well, that'd be kind of clearly defined because they're discussing it now anyway. That how fast is that going? Um, the plan is to bring it into, you know, collect comments during March, bring it to committee in April, but that's just it. aspirational schedule.

Yeah. But so it's moving kind of quickly. I mean that that could be something we could sink our teeth into if we had a presentation at our ne have that as agenda item. Have someone come speak to that. Give us a chance to ask questions and start to think about that a little bit and then and then even offline we can start to think about what we would like to do with it. Is that something we would do city? So, I think that what I understood, Andy, and maybe Lisa and Nikki could address this is that the the putt is up for uh consideration by the uh city council and they're going to come to us as a board for for

recommendation. So, actually, this would be a chance to Are you asking one of us to put together a presentation? No. No, it would be the the actual pud what's what's Yeah. be willing to but I'd much rather have Lisa do it. No, we would do that. [laughter] We can put it at the beginning. Yeah, I didn't understand. So, yeah, I mean we would ask someone to make the presentation to us and then it give us a chance to interact about that and then start to formulate some thinking about it. There is also again a fifth I think there's a

yeah there March so you could separate it just have a hour 90 minute meeting or something on the fifth Tuesday to separate it from um your regular business if you wanted to do that. I would love to do that and also organize next steps for other topics too during that fifth Tuesday.

Yeah. So what if what if we did this is that we have the fourth Tuesday we have the the city presentation about the HUD and the fifth um Tuesday we have a discussion about that and what we think about it and how we might come up with a set of recommendations from the city and we could work on our agenda for our broader discussions because I think we have to have that discussion too. Sounds good. prioritize topics and I could start that ball by sending out an invite for the fifth Tuesday. Okay, you all could come.

Yeah, I don't mean to be Well, it would be much better for me to do the fifth Tuesday if that's possible. Having knee replacement surgery on Friday. Yeah, be fine on the fifth Tuesday. It might be a little bit difficult on the fourth Tuesday, but we'll still be So, is that are we talking about March 31st? You can do it remotely, too. I mean, the presentation's all it's recorded. Goodness sake. You don't even need me. Yeah, I'm traveling that day. I don't have to be there.

Doesn't have to be that. Doesn't have to be exactly that day. Find another day. Yeah, I could I could throw out a few dates. And are we talking a an evening or a daytime? Yeah, that's a good question. That's a good question. Well, you're guessing. Yeah, I would guess evening. I think a lot of there's a few board members that couldn't do Yeah, I'm good anytime. I mean, I can make anytime five or I know ahead of time and can just adjust my day, right? It can be earlier. Yes, for example. five because yeah, five would work. I mean, five I guess 5:30 would probably would be the sweet spot. Um but

what about you? I'm wide open. I'll be there. Perfect. All right. So, you'll throw I'll throw out some dates. Yeah. Our new board member too for March. Yeah. meet you.

Mitch class will if he Yes, he'll be sworn in on the 4th. So hopefully we'll be joining us then on in March. So that's perfect timing. All right. Anything else? So I guess I would like to see if someone has a motion. So seconded we're out of here. [laughter]