Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Let's call to order the planning commission meeting for Wednesday, June 23rd. Can we please get a roll call? Commissioner Scarboro Echo, present. Commissioner Santos, present. Commissioner Ortiz, present. Vice Chairperson Fron, present. Chairperson Rodriguez present.

Okay. Um, time for the pledge of allegiance and uh, Commissioner Scarboro echo, will you lead us? This is the moment in our agenda to open up for public comments for items that are not on the agenda. Do we have any comments? There are none.

Thank you. Okay. Um, reviewing our minutes from July 9th. I'll entertain a motion if no one has any edits. I a motion. I'll second it. Roll call, please. Commissioner Scarboro Echo, can I vote since I wasn't I'm saying Commissioner Santos? Yes. Commissioner Ortiz, yes. Vice Chairperson Bronze, yes. Chairperson Rodriguez Sea, yes.

Motion carries. Okay, opening up our public hearing item 5.1, a conditional approval for Stallion Estate. Good evening, chair, members of the planning commission, and welcome, Commissioner Scarbo Eko. My name is Nicolas Wutron, assistant planner with the community development department. Tonight I will be presenting the tenative parcel map number 39093 for the Stallion Estate submitted under case file number plan TPM250010 go. The applicant, Andrew McClur of Luxury Desert Escapes LLC, is requesting approval to subdivide an approximately 5 acre parcel located at 80700 Avenue 50 and is identified under assessor's parcel number 6028003. The subject property is located north of Avenue 50 and west of Madison Street. It is surrounded by rural residential and estate style development, including the Vetana Housing Development to the west. The general plan land use designation for the site is desert estates transition which supports large lot low density residential uses of three dwelling units per acre. The zoning designation is desert estates transition 3. Consistent with the general plan, the proposed parcel configuration complies with the minimum lot size and use requirements under the unified development code. The tenative parcel map 39093 proposes to subdivide the site into two parcels. Parcel one being 3.12 acres will contain the existing single family residence, cassita, garage, barn, recreational

improvements and equestrian facilities and parcel 2, which is 1.52 acres, is undeveloped and will include recorded access and utility easements for future use. No new development is being proposed as part of this request. Staff has reviewed the proposal for consistency with the city of India's general plan 20 240, the unified development code, and the subdivision map act. The project meets all applicable requirements and qualifies for a categorical exemption under SQA guidelines section 15315 which applies for minor land divisions. All required findings can be made and appropriate conditions of approval have been included to ensure compliance. With that, staff recommends approving resolution 2115, conditionally approving the tenative parcel map number 39093 for the Stallion Estate. Thank you for your time. I am available to have if you have any questions and the applicant doesn't have a presentation, but they're available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Um, do we have any questions for staff? Okay, we'll open up the public hearing and uh see if the applicant would like to come up and address us.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Rees. I'm the project manager for the Stallion Estate. Um I read your staff report. I agree with everything in there. It's a simple lot split, single family dwelling. Um, and I appreciate your time in and approving it. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Okay. Are there any public comments on this item? There are none. Okay. We'll go ahead and close the public hearing. Any comment? No deliberation. Okay. I'll go ahead and entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second. Roll call, please. Commissioner Scarboro Echo, yes.

Commissioner Santos, yes. Commissioner Ortiz, yes. Vice Chairperson Fr. Yes. Chairperson Rodriguez, yes. Motion carries. Thank you. All right, moving on to our action items. We have a presentation from our economic development director, Miguel Ramirez Corno.

Yes, I just wanted to do a quick introduction. um before Miguel comes up. Um so we've been trying to do this presentation for several months. Um a little bashful in saying that, but the time has arrived and so our economic development director will go ahead and do the presentation. But I wanted you to just know even though Miguel will be speaking about this topic is really what triggered this is back in February there was a gas station, the Maverick, that the planning commission denied. As part of that discussion, there was an interest which ended up um going to the city council after the project was denied. It was ultimately approved, but there was um a directive from the council to come back to the planning commission and study this issue as far as um you know how um certain uses come into town and um you know some of the factors are included. And then eventually, so not tonight, we will bring some data and some more analysis on uh potentially um limiting gas stations. But right now, this is just kind of an overall presentation solely from an economic standpoint. So with that in mind, I wanted to uh bring Miguel.

Thank you, Brian. Good evening, commissioner, members of uh or commission. Let me start all over. Chairperson and members of the commission. My name is Miguel Rome Corno. I'm the economic development director. And tonight we're going to go a little over gap analysis. So generality and we'll look a little bit into gas stations but not pick apart exactly what what gas stations are because that will come in the future as Brian mentioned. Uh so how the market drives business growth in India. Uh so what the role is of economic development is to influence not control. Cities like India don't necessarily choose businesses all the time. Businesses choose city especially when it comes to larger corporations. They have their teams. They have their data that they they pay for. They have their consultants. Uh our role is to provide some of the data that we have. And uh we use a service called Placer AI which measures cell phone data of where people are going to, where they're coming from, spending habits, all of that stuff in order to help uh businesses, mostly small business owners, because they don't have access to this stuff. It's very expensive. But we try to inform a small business owner on a potential location. Uh and then the business role is to ultimately make the decision. It's their wallets. It's their you know shareholders which are going to hold them responsible. But we don't necessarily control who goes where. Now the planning commission does have and uh planning does have a say in kind of what can go where and what, but as far as economic development, we're just trying to support the local economy. So understanding the market forces and this is kind of I guess a little bit of a economics background is supply is a number and types of businesses operating in email uh in India demand consumer spending unmet needs lifestyle preferences that is something a lot businesses are focusing on is lifestyle preferences it's no longer the basic demographics that they're looking into because people are a lot more mobile nowadays you see something on Instagram that's an hour and a half away guess what you're going to drive and go take a

picture with it or you're going to taste it. Um, and and that's kind of driven by social media and the gap, the difference between supply and demand. Market gaps aren't created by a lack of zoning, they're created by unmet consumer demand. So, India's uh demand outpaces the supply in just about every sector in uh consumer spending. So, there is a total of $2.5 billion dollars uh that the demand is there. The supply is only at across again all retail and consumer spending$1.07 billion dollars. So leaving a gap of 1.18 billion of unmet demand. And again that's across 30 retail and food service industries. So here I give a a demand that exists on almost every sector. And here's some very specifics. The unmet demand for automotive dealers is um $184 million. And if you look throughout uh towards the bottom the second to last is gas stations. 17.93 almost $18 million in unmet demand uh for the city of India. The only thing that we're pretty close on that we're doing fairly well on is grocery stores. Our gap is really uh only 3 point let's say round up $4 million and that's really one grocery store and it's highlighted there. Uh so gas station market signals 88% of adults purchase gasoline in the last six months. Uh 74% of households rely on cell phones only reflecting a high mo mobile population. Again, people drive to places to experience, to taste, to do different things. Um $110 million uh over $110 million in annual consumer spending on gas station purchases in India already. Now, the demand for fuel and autorelated service is consistent and it's volume driven. Gas stations in India serve both local uh residents and steady stream of communers and and

travelers. Here in the city of India annually we have roughly 1.4 million people who come just to visit India. They step foot in the boundaries of India. Not just that but we are really the only city that uh has development on both sides of I 10 making it very attractive for multiple types of uh businesses including gas stations. Why this matters to businesses is because they analyze a micro trends. Again, they don't look at the typical just regular demographics that everyone has always told this is our population. This is our household income because people are a lot more mobile and their spending is a lot different. A lot of it is through credit. Also, something that you can't um necessarily rely on. In the past, they looked at uh balances and in savings and kind of the financial health of someone. you can't really determine a lot of that information because now a lot of people are spending on credit and relying on credit uh in order to make some of their their purchases. Um so India's consumer spending and forecasting growth here's just a couple examples. Entertainment and recreation uh by 2030 will increase another $16 million. Food away from home another $17 million by 2030. Health and beauty is also consistent uh on an upward trend. Now let's look at uh site selection. So site selection, every large business has a site selection team. There's even a conference site uh for site selectors that that they go to this conference and they learn the latest trends and things like that. Uh so they don't just look at the land and say hey location. That really means different things. It's the actual physical location, the location in terms of demographics and psychoraphics and then their pro their their potential. Um, so they follow a checklist or prescription. Like a business that we commonly get uh asked for is Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's, their prescriptions are very secretive. You can try to guess what their prescriptions for site selection is, but it's it's absolutely not not that. Uh, Trader Joe's even put out a podcast

where they talk about how they choose stores, and it's very vague, but it's it's it's very deep into what they look at look at. Uh so common site selection filters are drive time across target consumer bases and even drive time is not necessarily uh a main factor anymore. So I don't know if you've all seen in the past they did the ring radiuses of 3, five, 10 miles. That is now outdated and now it's either true drive times. So if one area of the city gets more traffic than others, it skews how far people come from and what that drive time actually looks like. So um minimum daily traffic counts, proximity to complimentary service uh businesses like retail clusters, uh visibility for major corridors uh and intersections, median incomes, median incomes, age and household. That's kind of traditional uh permitting timelines and ease of approvals. This is something that the development community it spreads like wildfire. I have seen it uh happening in the Inland Empire uh more towards western Riverside County where now cities are pushing back on warehousing and industrial. That is the reason why you're starting to see the growth further east because those cities over there have said we've had enough and uh now the market is driving it further east site selection and and how businesses decide. So, here I have an example of Circle K, what their site selection. I I tried to look for specifically Maverick. It's not out there in the public. There's they're not large enough like uh Circle K, but they look with roughly uh 40,000 um 40,000 people within a three mile radius, traffic counts of at least 20,000 vehicles per day, parcel sizes, uh drive daytime population, they prefer, some of them like Circle K preferred uh pads near grocery. This is a little bit different. If the market matches the checklist with the prescription, the deal moves forward. It's purely e an an e economic decision.

What we do with this data is that we promote local market opportunities to site selectors and brokers. I go to a conference every May in Las Vegas, ICS, uh and it is every single corporation that you could think of, hotel, restaurants, uh retail, they are there. And I go and I pitch I'm I'm in sales. I pitch Indo and why you should choose Indo. So just about every uh retailer is there. I package the data data specifically for retailers, for hotels and for different things. Um and what I highlight is their potential return on investment. Every business that comes to India is investing in our community. And so I have to show their potential value to this uh to not just the city but in return how they can get their money back because ultimately it goes to their wallet. So, I'm here to answer any questions if you have any. Um, yeah,

please. Um, where it showed that we still the slide that showed how much demand we still have for gas station right there. 17. Yeah, 17.93. Is that number How do you come up with that number? Is it the the the growth rate of the city, the number of cars, the age? I mean, I'm sure there's a bunch of numbers that come up to say this is what we think we're going to need in what, the next five years, the next two years today.

So, so a lot of these there's a lot of places where you could get this data point. The one that I found the most accurate is through Placer AI. The reason why is because Placer AI has partnered with over 500 apps that track just about everything. Consumer spending, where you're going, uh, if you go to a 7-Eleven, where'd you go after? if before you came to say 11 where you came from. Um they've partnered with the banks to to get some of that credit information and they aggregate all this other stuff. So it's not it's also not just our population uh that is the unmet demand of the gas station. It's the people that come to India and that travel up and down the corridor. We again we're fortunate enough to have development on both sides of I 10. Um, and not just that, but gas stations like Maverick, we don't have uh a gas station right now that serves business automobiles. So, large trucks, semis, we don't have a gas station that really is solely, not solely, but focuses on those types of trucks. And so, that's why I'm assuming Maverick chose that site.

Mr. Nico, the numbers that you're showing here, the 17.93 million, that is just for the city of India. That is just for the city of India. Yes. uh through placer AI I am able to geoence just the city boundaries and that's what that's what it shows. Got it. Okay. So, the Desert Sun published an article in April uh 28 of 2023 where we gave them numbers and the 5-year projected uh numbers then were 18 million and then 72.9 million in the next 5 years. Has that does that mean that there's been a decline in demand?

Not necessarily. It's different data points. uh Ezri um they do a whole lot of and a business analytics also I found that theirs are a little skewed their data points and so because everyone has a cell phone everyone carries a cell phone and they partner with 500 apps this is the number that I feel is one that's a little more accurate takes a lot of stuff out of the census uh we all know sometimes census doesn't capture everyone um and people who don't respond to the census aren't uh figured for that but just about everyone has a cell phone and kids. So, this one I find more reliable. This is the current demand. It's not projecting out the future. Now, for the future, EZRI uh and that type of thing can kind of track the forecast on that. And that one's a little more reliable for extending the forecast on that. But for right now, I firmly believe that that this one's more accurate.

That's helpful. Um Go ahead. Yeah, I I No. Okay. I still have some more questions. Go ahead. Okay. No, please. Please.

No. No. Go ahead. Uh I'm interested to uh learn more about this site selection. If we could go to that slide. Um it looks like you were looking at um circle K and what they look into and it says strong daytime population employment schools particularly um how does that factor in then if we have in our general plan something that's inconsistent with this you know and I and I hear you what you're saying as far as economic development is concerned. We just want to get the economic development. We're not talking about land use. That's not within the purview of your department. But I'm just curious, is that something that you and your department are taking into consideration when these uh these types of businesses are taking this type of um you know consideration and our general plan says we don't want them near schools. Is that something that you and Brian maybe in the um planning department are talking about?

Absolutely. And so one of the things that we do is I essentially hook them and say, "Hey, are you interested?" And and sometimes some of these businesses like Maverick, they make a decision on their own and then they tell us and I find out through our partnership with uh planning. It's like, "Hey, Maverick's coming." And then we make a contact. But Brian and I or the planning department and I have a really great relationship where it's like, "Hey, this business is interested." I walk over, "Hey, we have this potential business at this potential site. What does the zoning say for it?" All of the planning staff has been extremely helpful in saying, "Uh, we might have to do this, this, or that." And I am a solutions driven person. So if the answer is no, it's okay. No, but is there a way we can do this? Is there a way we can do that? Um again in it's it's a conversation, it's a partnership that we have in discussing these types of things. Absolutely.

And I just wanted to if I could add so in regards to general plan or the zoning, you won't see in a zoning ordinance like Circle K prohibited. Obviously, we recently prohibited mini storage, self uh storage in order to promote job growth in the city, but um I mean that's part of our job as far as the community development department, specifically planning is when um a proposal comes in to make sure it's consistent with the zoning zoning and the general plan. So, um, obviously some factors come into play, um, like the disadvantaged communities and things like that that was brought up as part of the Maverick, um, station. But, um, in general, yeah, that's our job to make sure that when we present it to you that it is consistent. If it's not, then the project either needs to be modified or the project will won't come to you um because it's it's inconsistent.

Thank you. That's really helpful. And then I I have um questions more and I don't know if you this was in part of your presentation but current number of gas stations in our city per capita and then in comparison to other cities uh nearby. I don't know if you have those numbers but that's where my questions are going. So but before we get there maybe I'll let um Commissioner Ortiz So I just want to say thank you so much. This is a very well put out presentation and then and it seems that you're very good at it and then you enjoy what you do. So, thank you for that. Thank you for your service to the city of India.

Uh my question is like do we as a city as like you being the economic development manager, do you do we offer incentives to certain type of businesses to come like to make them like more attractive to the city of India or like how that works?

In certain instances we do uh and we have in the past but it has to make sense for the city of India. It has to be a win-win for both. We don't just offer them to any retailer or anything. Uh it's typically in areas where we're trying to focus on growth. One of those is uh toot. Uh so hotels. Uh we know we have 1.4 million people coming into the city. We've heard from our partners at uh Golden Voice that there's still there's still a lack of 5,000 rooms in India for their festival goers. Um so the the demand in the market is there. Um, so yeah, sometimes that we do like our um, auto mall dealers, that is something that we get creative because they are such a huge sales tax generator for us and they're so important to to the city. So we can get uh, we can enter those conversations, but it just depends on what our strategic focus is.

So I'm back to the 17.93. So with the you know electric cars are definitely not going to take over the world tomorrow but they are taking big chunks of the market. So when you look at these companies that you're getting the data from what is the future look like? I mean, is it going to be that no matter what the growth is going to the electric cars are never going to outpace the growth of needing the gas stations or or or I mean what do the numbers say like five years from now, 10 years from now or is just the growth is it's going to keep going doesn't matter. Well, the current forecasted demand for gas in India specifically is still trending up as as the numbers that you uh saw earlier uh this year still show trending up. That is a very tough question to answer because there are California mandates that are go electric. But here specifically within the city of India, we also have a larger problem to even meet those uh mandates and that is power availability of power. uh we are working towards it but that also can you know skew how long the forecast when will be the tipping point for the foreseeable future from the data that I've seen it's still heavy on gas yes so um when picking back from what um commissioner France said what about the demand for electric chargers like do we have any data do we know like are we meeting that demand And like do we have like any information about that?

I don't have any information specifically on that but I think through uh California code there is a requirement of infrastructure on any new buildings to have at least the ability to uh install uh electric chargers. I don't have currently where we meet the demand. I know Tesla just opened a major or not just it's almost two years now a pretty massive charging station up in North India at Indo Town Center. um we do get approached by other vendors to to do them. So we know that there is some there uh it is hard because first of all again power the availability of of power currently uh and you have to have a willing um property owner in order to to accept that because a lot of them are going into existing sites um to retrofit existing sites and sometimes the cost outweighs the benefit on it

or the return on investment can be longer. And just to add to that, so the planning division is continuing to be approached by um developers who want to put chargers um a charging system um in um but it can be challenging as Miguel mentioned um regarding the power supply for those charging station uh developments if you if you will. So we work with them closely and try to you know determine uh to the best of our ability working with the variety of people if there is going to be capacity to to install those chargers. But it is a high demand. We you are seeing several people um do pre-applications. They call they have beatings and actually just near the Maverick they're interested in putting a charging station. Now will it go in? We don't know yet but um it is constantly coming up um in the department. So just wanted to add that.

And just a little bit more information in regards to the charging stations um which I was enlightened about a month ago for 16 station that's an equivalent of four megawws which is a decent amount of power needed. Um so that's what again going back into the infrastructure not having it currently but working towards it. Um I think again adding more additional EV chargers would be beneficial but again it's the infrastructure will be the the first thing that the city u we have to work work on.

Yeah. Uh in terms of megawatts 4 megawatts is a lot. A hotel is right about one megawatt um to power. So for us who have currently not as much capacity for to add additional you know it's that balancing act is a hotel which brings a lot which brings revenue to the city where a charging station right now there is no tax associated to that.

Great. Uh I'm going to reframe my earlier question because um I know that you have you what you're doing is limited and it's not about the land use but um how much does um the current state of gas station per capita influence your decision to go out and get more of these types of businesses? Is there anything in your department now that says, "Hey, we should look at that and see if there's a balancing act that we should be doing."

To be very honest with you, uh, gas stations is not something that I go out and attract. Uh, the market really drives gas stations. Uh, I focus on hotels, on retailers, larger retailers, smaller retailers, small business owners, and restaurants. Uh, we have uh, the community has expressed the need for more sitdown restaurants. And so, that's who I spend a lot of time uh, speaking to. But gas stations, I I really do not attract any gas stations. It's mostly I hear through planning that, hey, this gas station is potentially interested. Cool. Do they need an information? I can supply it. But but I I don't spend I don't I I don't think in my career I have ever called a gas station owner to say, hey, why don't you come in? Because the market really drives that, especially they're very location specific.

That's actually illuminating. So, you're saying we currently right now in our city through our land use are attracting the level and the amount of gas stations that are coming in. It's not anything that you and your department are going out to go get. I think that's Yeah, that's I don't necessarily think it's the actual land use. It's just that potential businesses will go through the process of of I believe it's a cup in order to allow it. They're willing to go through the process and pay the money to try to change a land use or to allow that land use for a gas station. To me, it's this uh parcel has been vacant for such a long time. They see an opportunity, they say, "We can make money here," and they move forward.

Yeah. No. Yeah. I agree. That's 100%. I think getting to where my question really was at is, is our land use currently, the permissible uses within certain zoning designations, creating the conditions to attract more of this type of business? if they're going through a and I know we're going to have the land use conversation, Brian, but I just wanted to make sure that I'm very clear on the limitations of our economic development and or not limitations, but where where you sort of stop in helping us continue to uh generate revenue and then where um we as planning folks um are creating conditions to attract more business.

Yeah. in regards to zoning, just to add to that. So, um, yes, the zoning is what enables someone to apply for an entitlement and move forward, but like Miguel said this evening, just because it's zon um for to allow a gas station doesn't mean that they want to go there.

So, one of the obviously key areas is along the I 10. It's a very popular area. It's very much um conducive for gas stations. People kick on and off. So, in that sense, um, you know, we have zoned appropriately zoned for gas stations and we probably weren't going to get into that level of detail when we come back to you with an analysis because it could get to the point where we would have to hire outside help, a consultant to do an in-depth analysis. I think you know what will mainly be coming back uh later and not obviously tonight is some options for the commission and then also for the council to consider on potentially limiting them but not necessarily an in-depth study unless we're directed to do such and then we'll go find some money.

Yeah. And and and I don't think that's what I'm asking but they're coming into our mixed use zoning, right? We it's a permissible use if they get a conditional use permit. So, and I know I know that it is because we just opened one up right across the street from Jeff K. So, I just I that's where that's where my head is to really understand where within our zoning we are have created the conditions to allow for these types of developments to get interest. So, if they're putting in if they're doing this site selection that we were just shown,

and then we have all of these different zoning um conditions that have gas stations as a permissible um use, then then you know that that's sort of where my head is at. I'm just walking you through where I'm thinking, but I I think yeah, I'm not asking for a in-depth study. I think it's just understanding now I understand where our economic development sort of um we're not going out there. We're not calling them. It sounds like it really is more on us.

Yeah. And if if I may, the market, even if it wasn't allowed, we'd still get calls for a potential gas station at that exact location. So, I don't think it's anything that you can create. It's really truly just market demand. Uh, and uh, if I may, if we could go back to the um slide, I did have one last one to kind of show where the people are are getting the 7-Eleven that's right across the way. Um, where people are coming from to shop at that 7-Eleven. And you see that dark red right in the middle? That is the neighborhood that's directly adjacent for them. Now, if you're coming out of that neighborhood, you go through Avenue 45 and then you have to make that left right before the light to get into that 7-Eleven. I can see that um Maverick decided to select that site as a potential site because they saw this deep red from that community saying it's convenient while you're getting on the I 10 or wherever you're going to stop at a gas station right there. So, let's make it easier to just pull right in, make the left at the light, and then make a quick right, and you're at the gas station.

And the blue and the blue dot is another gas station. That's a that that is the 7-Eleven, right? So, there's the Maverick across the street and the 7-Eleven across the street. So, now there's two options for that red dot. Okay. And I'll give you a comment just really quickly. You you me you said, um, I'm interested in they're investing in our community. I'm interested in seeing how they're getting their money back. Are we tracking how much of that money stays outside of um maybe just what we're tracking which is you know revenue tax revenue um these these types of businesses I'm sure that they're not local maybe so are we tracking how much of that you know money that they're getting back is coming and being reinvested back into the community.

No that that is left up to the individual business owner. Uh, same thing goes to our small business owners necessar it doesn't necessarily mean they're reinvesting into the community, but usually when uh we track it by sales sales tax.

So, I kind of I kind of think that this is really what we needed, right? We were all worried that the demand at some point we were going to end up with empty gas stations, right? Remember when the rules changed and we had all the old gas stations that couldn't be retrofitted and then we ended up with these wonky looking buildings all over town. So, it sounds like the demand is here and it's not going anywhere, at least not in the near future. So, I think what for me as a commissioner when when planning comes back to us, what I'd like to see is get a clear understanding of where it's allowed, where it needs a conditional use permit, where they're at, and then for us to come up with like our vision, and we can't control it all because it is market demand, right? They're not going to put a gas station here no matter how many times we ask them if the market demand isn't there. Okay? But if we could control some of this, where do we think we would like to see more growth and where would we like to not see more growth? Because maybe we feel there's already too many there, right? Because they do pollute the air. There's, you know, they're not the they're not a green business, but they are definitely a needed business. So, I think we maybe as a city we can come up with a balance. How can we do this, provide this service, keep the sales and the tax dollars in India, but yet do it in a managed way that we control it as much as possible. And I kind of think that's where we are because it is a market demand. No matter what we do, if there's no demand, they're not going to build it. No matter what we give them the land, they're not going to put it there. Okay? So, I think that's maybe where our next step is to come up with and I think if we know what it is, the developers are also going to know what it is. So, when they come in, they're going to say, "Oh, they've talked about this. This is what they want. Does this work?" Because they're going to try to take the path of least resistance, right? Time is money. If they can get it through faster, it's better. And maybe it'll be better if we know what we're asking for. And I think for me, that's where the next step is. But this was perfect. Miguel, I really appreciate the numbers because I didn't think there was this much demand. I was wrong. So now I

feel better about the conversations that we'll be having in the future. Thank you. Anyone else?

So this is why there's five of us and I don't agree with that. Um and I think it's our background, right? Wealth management. I do you know planning and it's social justice. So maybe I'm coming from a very different perspective. I think that what we need at the commission is really to understand how we are one how do we measure up to neighboring cities how many gas stations do we have per capita in comparison to let's say lita in comparison to say Indian wells in comparison to say uh Coachella right just around the area I think that's a reasonable un just to understand are we meeting more of the demand regionally in comparison to some of our other cities. I think the conversation is also similar to the way we talked about it with the storage facilities where we said there are better land use um there are better land uses for the land use designation. I think that should also be part of it. I really am interested to know how many times we have added a gas station to a mixeduse zoning where intentionally it was zoned this way for commercial housing to do to do more for your buck. And I remember when the gas station came up across the street from JFK and I asked and I said, "Is there any way to build up from what you have now?" you know, I don't know that you would want to, but the reality is that this type of land use is very limiting. And if we're allowing it in places where we have set out to bring in more housing, to do more commercial, I think we're we might be um denying ourselves from the opportunity of doing more because we could still do commercial and still get some tax revenue and then provide some housing for some very serious housing needs. I was actually just sharing with our new

commissioner. My mother just sold her house. She's going through a divorce. I'm oversharing. But she couldn't buy she couldn't buy her way back into India. It's too expensive. And we've lived here always. And so there's a real need in the community for housing. And if our mixeduse zoning, just to use an example, I'm not I'm not trying to change that now, but just an example, is being used up by this type of development, then we are only creating more conditions for the gentrification that is being um that's happening in our community, the high cost of of rent. And so I think this is part of a much larger conversation about development is coming. And I'm glad that you did bring the numbers and I'm glad to learn that we're not actively seeking, they're just coming. I think that's important. I think you're doing a fantastic job because we've seen so much growth in the last few years. I think let's keep doing that. I think we should really analyze what types of developments do we want to attract. Are we just open up for anyone or should we be looking at different factors that say hey maybe we should uh you know take this type of land use and only allow this type of developments. I think the the only other thing with that is the the planning commission commissioners could have an idea of what they want but ultimately the experts especially in the economical development see a different way and we may believe that there's a specific item or a specific type of development that will produce some type of tax revenue or profit whatever but at the end of the day um each industry is slightly different and so I I understand where you're coming from but also I think by

doing such would also put a hindrance and make a little bit more make it a little bit more difficult on some uh development and the demand will continue to grow and then at that point let's say that 17.93 ends up becoming a 30 $40 million demand and now it's going to be harder to even uh lower that that demand down because once we get to that high demand, it makes it a little bit more difficult. Now, we're going to have to have the director of economic development seeking them because now we need it. And so, it's just one of those things where if we can keep the demand to where it's at now and let them just come in versus us having to go out and now seek them and now we're going to be forced to put them in places that initially we weren't we didn't want them, but now because the demands there, we're going to have to put them there. I would agree with that if I didn't drive around India often and know that there's no waiting time for any of the gas stations. In fact, most gas stations will have one person at a gas pump and that's it. Um I think yes, the market needs to be regulated. I I don't think it's just like let's let the market tell us how things should be done. That's just not how it works. I think we here have a responsibility not to the market but to the residents of the city. I think that's what land use really comes down to. I think it's not about does the market tell us they want more of it? All right, let's open the door and then just let it happen. I think it's a question of where are they going? I I I was I was taken back by the selection process even because we know that they're going in communities that are already rent burden, low income and and those are part of the demographics that the market is looking at. They're saying we're looking at how much what's the medium household income. It's on there. Uh, you know, anyway, I'm not going to get into it. You all saw the presentation. So, I think I think that that is the question

for us. I don't think the question we're not in the economic de development commission. I think, you know, we're in the planning commission. I think the question for us is are we creating the conditions to put gas stations in places that maybe they shouldn't. And I'm not saying that the answer today is let's do one thing. We're not taking any action. This is just a study session and this is just a you know a deliberation open discussion. Um but but but I think you know this is where I'm coming from as far as direction to Brian because uh Commissioner Fran said here's what I think needs to happen and what I'm saying is I think we need to go a little further. I would like for us to understand where gas stations are in relation to what the Kalen viral screen is doing. Are we adding them in disadvantaged communities? So just understand how many gas stations do we have in total? How many have we had since we started this conversation in 2023 because the article in 2023 um was because we were starting to have this conversation. So how many how many how many gas stations have we've uh allowed since then? And then um sorry I lost my ch. So disadvantaged communities how many have do we have? Oh, in the per capita comparison to surrounding cities. I think that's where I would like to see the presentation come back.

One more thing. Yeah, I also have one. Okay, just one more thing. That map that you brought with that red spot,

I'd love to see something like that for the whole city like where, you know, if there's certain areas, where is that demand, right? And then in relation to where the current gas stations are and if there are any that have applied or in the pipeline and let's see where the demand is because I think there is has to be both sides. There has to be the community because if we put in more housing which I know we need more houses bring more people which brings more cars which then again you need more gas stations. So it's kind of this revolving uh system right? So, I kind of want to make sure we understand where is that demand today and where do we think those demands are going to be in the next few years? Because I think all of that is going to matter when we look at if we're going to make any land use recommendations to the city. I want to make sure that we have all of our ducks in order. Why are we making these recommendations? It has to meet um economic sense. It has to make um a sense for the community what they need, what they want. Otherwise, doesn't matter what we want. It's what the community wants and what they're asking for. So, I really want to understand that.

If we're going to go out of our way to understand the market, we should go out of our way to also understand the community perspective and maybe reach out to environmental groups, CBOS that are doing work um around this topic because it's important to note that this is happening across the entire state. This is not this is not unique to us. Um, and many other cities have had the same conversation and the same questions and some have taken one direction, others have taken the other. But I think if we're really going to put this much emphasis in understanding the demand because these numbers are coming from the market,

they're they're coming from the people who are interested in putting more of these, right? Um, so I also want to understand the other perspective. I want to understand and not that I'm asking for us to go out there and do an audit of how many cars are pumping gas at each gas station. But, you know, let's let's talk about do we need one gas station in front of the other like we just now, you know, recently approved. Do we need um more gas stations in the types of communities where they have been going? And then the gap of where are they not and why are they not? What are the demographics of the communities that are not getting the gas stations? What is the income level? What is the race? So, I think it's important to also understand that because if the market is looking at certain demographics, they're targeting there's very specific things that they're looking at. They're targeting certain demographics that are saying this is where they go. And if they've been doing that in our city and they've been choosing communities that we don't think they should be choosing, then I think we have a decision to make. If I may, um, I kind of agree with your perspective. I also agree with Commissioner Fran's perspective. Um, uh, thank you again for the presentation. Um, I didn't, like Commissioner Fran said, like I didn't think that it was such a big need here, demand here in the community. Uh, but I also think we have to be more intelligent of where they go, you know. So that's why also I think that uh we should look into like what other cities have they done you know like um they have they put any policies in place what like other cities kind of close to us like close to India with the same population uh what like because I know that's a conversation that other cities have done right so I think it's I think it would be smart for us like to understand like better of like what other cities have done and that way we can maybe look into it and implement it. I don't want to completely uh ban gas stations because there's the need and we

need the taxes. Um but at the same time, I think we can be more intelligent on where they go and what communities and what like specific um places in the community they go. So,

and if I may, I if I may suggest is that during that analysis, you don't necessarily look at cities like Linta next door to us because they are not up against I 10 on both sides of it. you look at cities that do spend uh span both sides of a highway with a similar uh population and things like that because it will be skewed. Obviously, more gas stations are going to want to go closer to I 10 than Lita, which is not necessarily on there. That is just to primarily serve the local community. Not just that, but city of India is unique where we have a festival that brings in a whole lot of people. So, that is also going to skew uh th those numbers as opposed to Lintita. And just building upon that if I may add so uh good point by Miguel but also in addition what we'll look at is some cities and I believe Lintita but I would have to double check um limit them at uh the number at an intersection. So that would be something that we'll also share with you um some of the surrounding cities uh limited gas stations at intersections. So we we'll definitely come back and you know I'm taking good notes. So there's a lot that we can cover. There are some items that were brought up tonight that we may not be able to get into that level of analysis, but we will do our best when we return.

And then uh just one thing in regards to the uh the topic of gas stations, uh each gas station tends to be different. They bring something different. Um now, if we're talking let's say amms, do we need a lot of amms? Potentially not because there's a lot throughout the city already. In regards to Maverick, their their biggest thing was diesel for the for the commercial side that the city currently doesn't have. Uh yes, there is diesel pumps, but they don't have them for the commercial. And having that commerce road right next to us, which is the 10. Um that's that brings a different a different view and the different type of business plan um that different de or business owners are bringing. And I think that's another topic that we also have to consider when it comes down to some of those things where it's not the same thing. that's slightly different than the one across. Um, so

yeah, that's that's a great point. And I think if there if there are items that we're not going to be able to get, maybe we can do a call. I'm sure that there are groups and people who do this all the time who'd be interested in submitting something. I'm already thinking about submitting something. So, um, yeah. Uh so you know if there are folks out there who do this all the time and would like to submit things for us to review, this is a great opportunity to get some of this data that you know maybe we just don't have the bandwidth to take on. Well, thank you so very much for your presentation. Uh we really appreciate you taking the time. We're really excited. We're really excited about all the growth that's happening. Thank you for your work. Truly truly um it's it's it's working.

So keep at it. Thank you to the council and uh the leadership and uh it's part of our strategic area focuses for our strategic plan this year or the next five years. Yeah. Thank you so very much. All right. Um commissioner comments or do we have anything else that you wanted to add, Brian, before we move on from this? N was a very good uh conversation. So we appreciate the commission and the input they've given which is really kind of helped direct our efforts and our research and what we're going to bring back to and then ultimately the council. So, thank you very much. Fantastic. Okay, I have a fun one, please. Go ahead.

Okay, I have a fun report. Um, you all know that I sit on the Coachella Valley History Museum's board. I think they're going to bury me there, but um, so just kidding, by the way. Nobody's trying to kill me. But, um, we've been working on the 1950 stainless steel car for much longer than I ever anticipated when that project first started. We presented the interior design plan to the board last night and we voted today to approve it. So now we know what it's going to look like and all I can tell you is wow, it is exceeded any possible dream that I have ever had for that car. Our next goal is to get the renderings ready to start to go out to the public. So you will see more information on this and I'm not going to give you any more other than a teaser. But this is going to be a gamecher for the museum and probably the east valley, not just India. So keep an eye on that. If you're not a member of the museum, please consider joining. Thank you so much.

I do have a comment. Well, thank you uh Commissioner France for your work with the history museum. Um if you guys haven't been there, it's a great cool place with a lot of history of Indo and the Coachella Valley. So, I recommend people to go and stop by. I I also want to welcome our new commissioner, uh, Commissioner Escarabo. Um, she has been pretty quiet today, but it's understandable. Um, uh, she's a great person. I have the pleasure to work with her in another capacity with the mosquito control district. So, I'm very happy and excited that she's here. So, welcome.

Thank you, Commissioner Ortiz. And this is probably the quietest I've ever heard. You also And once again, thank thank you to the the INDO staff for the report that was provided today. Thank you for uh Brian and your staff as well uh for the continual hard work that you guys do uh day in day out. I know we only meet twice a month, but uh again, thank you and again, welcome.

Yeah, I just want to say welcome. Uh we're really excited to have a full commission and we know your long history serving the city of India and we're very excited to have you in this commission and to continue to work with you. So yes, welcome, welcome, welcome. And I just want to say the other day I went grocery shopping and the woman who's uh taking my my I was in well I don't know if I can it's not a plug. at Stater Brothers off of uh Madison and the woman who is doing my ringing me up said whatever India is doing keep doing it. I went to the Fourth of July event and it was the best thing. She said um the the the drone show was a little short because we waited for a very long time. We wanted it to be more than 10 minutes and I said okay I'll pass on the message. Um, but she is she's saying they've they're lifelong residents and she just couldn't stop talking about how wonderful the city is moving and so congratulations to our staff. Um, I think it's a testament of where we are and all the hard work that you are all doing. So, congratulations to to you all and uh, thank you for all of your hard work. So,

staff items. Yes, I have a few um items to to report to the commission and Megan again, welcome. We had a nice conversation uh on Friday, so I'm wanted to welcome her. So, um there are a few items and then one item that the commission needs to make a decision on. So, the first item is um the August 13th hearing. We don't have any items, but there is an applicant if the commission would like to have it at the August 13th. If not, we can cancel and do the August 27th is a project consultation for Madison Point. So, um, typically we try to kind of group those with public hearing items. Um, but if if you'd like to to have that item on August 13th, we could. Um, if not, we would cancel and go to the August 27th. Um, we'll circle back with that in just a second. Um, there's an upcoming planning commissioner workshop that I just wanted to make sure that you're aware of. I put a copy of the flyer on the dis so that you have that. Um it's only $75. The city will pay for it. It's a a short 6:00 to9 pm in Eastville um on September 4th. So if you're interested, let me know. We'll get you paid up, get you signed up. Um but I know like if Bacon's available, I think a great a great opportunity to get um a workshop as a as a new planning commissioner. And then lastly, I just wanted to report that last week the city council um looked at our annexation study. Um it was a final study that they looked at and uh it was received positively. Um they want to move on uh to phase two, continue to study the potential to annex and and potentially submit an application to LAFCO. Um so we're going to move to phase two. And in addition, the council decided to expand the study area to add approximately 1,289 acres to the study area. So that would bring the the whole study area, the sphere area to 4,69 acres. So that's

exciting because that's, you know, long-term advanced planning that will be in the next 10 to 15 years in order to create more jobs in the city of Indo because we need um more jobs and more um higher paying jobs. So it's look they're looking at that area as an employment corridor. So just circling back if you would like u to keep the meeting uh first meeting in August even though we don't have um any public hearing items or if you would like to um have a meeting on August 27th. There seems to be a consensus for us not to have to meet on the 13th. So we'll see you on the 27th.

And the applicant's fine. I mean, I would press if the applicant like had to be at that meeting, but whether it's the first meeting or the second meeting doesn't really matter. Um, but because they're also already concurrently processing an entitlement for that project, but they want to look at the larger site and get some feedback from the commission. So, we'll let them know. So, we'll we'll cancel the April 13th meeting, but the next meeting if you could at the end um make that um determination that it would next meeting would be August 27. That's all the items I have for staff. All right. Well, thank you so very much. We'll go ahead and adjourn this meeting to 25. Thank you everyone.