Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

The time is now 07:30 on Monday, 03/09/2026, and I would like to call this regularly scheduled and duly noticed meeting of the Hudson Planning Commission to order according to the Open Meeting Act of the Ohio revised code. Mister Sugar, would you please call the roll?

Yes. Miss Obert? Here. Mister Intermarado? Here. Miss McCoy?

Here.

Miss Romano? Miss Norman.

Here, we have a quorum with four of seven members present. I did not get any notice that mister Romano would be missing, and so we will look forward to his arrival later. For the city tonight, we have Greg Hannon, Nick Sugar, and Marshall Pitchford. At this point in the agenda, I'm going to ask all of the people who intend to address the Planning Commission tonight to be sworn in. If you're expecting to deliver testimony or comment to the Planning Commission, please stand and raise your right hand, including staff? Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? If so, please say I do. I do. Thank you. You may be seated.

Also in case you missed my announcement about signing in, if you are delivering testimony or comment to the Planning Commission, please sign in legibly on the sheet which is at the back of the room and, we will get your name spelled correctly hopefully. I'd like the record to reflect that Mr. Romano has arrived at 07:31 and we still have a quorum of five of seven present. Thank you for arriving, Mr. Romano.

Well, I informed Ms. McCoy that in the event she needed a break, we would actually have to formally stop if you weren't here, so great. Alright, our next item of business is item number four, approval of minutes. These are the minutes from the previous Planning Commission meeting of 02/09/2026. Were there any corrections or additions that the Planning Commission members wanted to bring to the attention of staff?

I had only, two locations. On page three, first, I had to read under other business paragraph number three several times to make it make sense, so I'd like to suggest that we, make it read the following. This is an insertion near the end of that first line of paragraph number three. High density residential, which prompted PC's October 2025 request for a ninety day moratorium on new applications and at the end of that sentence, while it discussed those revisions among others. And then on page five, I think for clarity we should insert the reference, this is in the second full paragraph.

The paragraph begins further discussion. In the last line, there's a subsection B7, but if we would put 01/2002, it would be more clear for the public to read it, and then finally, the third paragraph after that begins, Ms. Katie Banke, and I think to preserve the dignity of her identity, we should spell her name the German way instead of the Anglicized way, B E H N K E. Those are the only changes I had. Do we have a motion to pass the minutes as amended? Motion to pass. Thank you, Ms. Ober.

We have a motion to pass the minutes of the February 9 meeting as amended. Do we have a second?

Second.

Thank you, Mr. Romano. It's been moved and seconded that we pass these minutes. Any further commentary? Mr. Sugar, please call the roll.

Mr. Morado? Yes. Ms. McCoy?

Yes.

Mr. Romano? Yes. Ms. Obert?

Yes. Ms. Norman? Yes, the motion carries five to zero. The minutes are approved.

The next item on our agenda is public discussion. For the public's information, we have two scheduled public meetings this evening on the agenda. So if you are addressing items under new business item A, which is conditional use and major site plan for Western Reserve Academy, or if you are addressing item B, conceptual site plan review for a daycare center, please wait to offer your comments on those two public hearings until the appropriate time. Otherwise, this is the opportunity for the public to give commentary on any other topic of interest to the Planning Commission, whether it's on this agenda or not. I call your attention to the rules at the back of the agenda that we conduct our public hearings according to, and having said all of that, is there anyone who wishes to address the Planning Commission on an item not subject of a public hearing?

Ms. Curtain.

Thank you, Cynthia Curtin, 1102 Cutler Lane, longtime Hudson resident and former Planning Commission Chair. I wanted to address you today on the issue of creating a new zone District 11. Now it's my understanding understand the concept of why council wants to create a separate zoning district in this area. Personally, I think it still should be remained as District 8 and but however, if the movement is going to go to a new district being 11, here's some things to keep in mind. This body is bound by the comprehensive plan, it so says in the charter and in the administrative code.

I understand that counsel, there's some thought that the counsel may not be bound by the comp plan, but it would be inconsistent if counsel didn't follow your recommendations because your recommendations stem in the plan. I mean, you have follow the plan, so if they go adverse to what you're recommending and adverse, then it's adverse to the plan and it just seems inconsistent. Comprehensive plan indicates that the new district is supposed to be income producing. Well what does that mean? It's already been proposed in the future, if you look at the future map, it proposes a commercial zone and a light industrial zone, a light industrial flex to be exact.

It was never intended to be mixed use, which is what is being currently proposed by city council. The comprehensive plan makes absolutely no mention of housing in that district, whether it's single family, multi family, townhomes, apartments, any of that. Not mentioned, not conceived, not thought of, not recommended. Additionally, the plan talks about and makes this point over and over again and you hear a lot of members of the community make this point, that the plan or whatever development is supposed to happen in that corridor, the Darrell Road corridor is supposed to support the downtown, not compete with it. So if you put a whole mixed use zone down there, you're gonna compete with the downtown and you're gonna ruin what has been established in the downtown.

The comprehensive plan also points out that the biggest challenge Hudson faces is traffic. Doesn't say anything about creating more commercial or industrial zones, but traffic. This is another good reason why not to allow any type of housing in that district because it would just create more havoc on the traffic and on city services. Interestingly, the traffic challenge seemed to be the biggest challenge over housing variety. So the citizens value traffic challenges more than additional housing variety.

Now, housing should not be permitted, but I can see where if it is considered, it would be a non permitted use and only should be allowed in conjunction with development, which by the way, should only be a conditional use. I noticed in the proposal of legislation they talk about permitted, planned development is permitted and conditional. Well, you can't have it both ways. It's gotta be one or the other. If you have it conditional that allows more safeguards for the city and for the Planning Commission to look at what the whole plan is and quite frankly, you should have a plan before you even think about rezoning.

It doesn't make sense to put the cart before the horse. The original subcommittee on this topic examined that whole corridor. They started almost a year ago and looked at other areas in the Northeast Ohio, talked to Ohio, I don't know, I don't want to call them, Ohio people in the know that knew about development coming into various towns and what they're looking for, companies relocating. So they spent a lot of time looking at this and they had come up with

a

plan and that plan I think is part of, which is in the council's list of other documents that they looked at and it's called the comparison of existing zone and subcommittee Proposed Uses and it's a graph, kinda looks like this. I would submit that the Planning Commission should recommend what was originally proposed by the subcommittee from last year and I would urge you to tell counsel not to support the proposed changes simply because number one, planned development should be a conditional use. Number two, there is no residential component in the comprehensive plan. And three, we need the light industrial and commercial to generate income paying taxes. Citi drives its income from income taxes, not from retail sales tax.

So this is why we need it to generate income,

an income bearing district. Miss Curtin, your time is up to you. Are you

about to

How much time was I allowed to have?

Five minutes. I'm sorry. If you can wrap up your thoughts, that would Thank be you.

Would just again urge that the district, if it is gonna be rezoned, should be zoned as light industrial and commercial. I would also encourage anybody that's watching at home to contact their council people, attend the council meetings in May. This is what Hudsonites do best. They speak up when something doesn't seem right. It's not that Hudson is anti development, it's that we just want the right development. Thank you. Appreciate your time.

Appreciate it. Is there anyone else who wishes to address the Planning Commission? And I'm sorry, I did mean to tell you five minutes, so go ahead.

Thank you very much, my name is Andrew Meldrum, I'm at 290 Aurora Street and I'm here tonight representing Hudson Heritage Association. I want to provide comments regarding the proposed zoning change and adoption of District 11 that has been before Hudson City Council and is now back to planning. This is not simply a routine zoning matter, it's a question of whether the city will uphold the spirit, intent, and authority of the comprehensive plan of our city that our city council commissioned and adopted just two years ago. The comprehensive plan provides an opportunity to prioritize development and land use patterns, identify important and potentially transformative projects, and align resources to address growth and improve a community's quality of life. This was not a rushed or casual effort.

The 2024 comprehensive plan process spanned nearly two years. It included extensive technical research and abundant public involvement. More than 1,500 residents provided input to its development. Thousands of ideas were gathered. The steering committee included elected and appointed officials and residents representing various points of view.

City staff also participated. In short, this plan represents the collective voice of Hudson and is specifically intended to be used by city council and the planning commission to guide decisions regarding land use and zoning, as well as to guide those submitting development proposals. It explicitly says that public public decision makers will be using the plan as a guide in their development deliberations, such as zoning matters. The discussion regarding District 11 is one of those deliberations, and you are some of the public decision makers the community has entrusted to apply the comprehensive plan. The future use section of the comprehensive plan makes it clear that as future zoning changes, these recommendations should be referenced.

The recommendations for the Darrowville Corridor is that development within areas designated light industrial flex should focus on strong income tax base. Much of the proposed District 11 is highlighted as light industrial flex in the complex, in the comprehensive plan, and the proposed zoning changes that designation. Instead, it converts much of the designated light industrial flex area into potential hotels, retail outlets, grocery stores, and restaurants intended primarily to support surrounding businesses. The comprehensive plan specifically and intentionally designated a light industrial zone for the former Joann space, with only a small sliver of retail fronting Darrow Road. This is clearly outlined in the diagram on page 51 of the future land use section of the comprehensive plan.

The proposed District 11 is not what the plan outlined or proposed for future use. During the planning phase of the comprehensive plan, retail expansion hotels and additional grocery development were not identified as priorities anywhere in Hudson, nor were they identified as elevated as primary needs by residents through the public engagement process. In fact, the comprehensive plan's focus for retail was to strengthen Downtown Hudson and not to have competing retail district within the city. A comprehensive plan is designed to provide stability over time. It spans ten years for a reason.

It is meant to transcend individual council terms and political transitions. It does not matter which members were seated at the time of adoption, it was voted on and adopted by this governing body as official policy for, as the official policy guide for the city. If the city begins rezoning in ways that directly contradict the newly adopted plan, then the plan ceases to be advisory, which trust. It sends the message that even after nearly two years of engagement and 1,500 participants, the community's voice can be set aside when circumstances become inconvenient. This is not the right time.

This is not consistent with the comprehensive plan, and zoning should not be changed to accommodate a single project or short term condition because that is what it is, overriding the comprehensive plan for a project by developers. We are not opposed to development, we are opposed to development that disregards the framework the community worked so hard to create. Respectfully, we ask you to help guide our current council to limit the possibility of a planned development in this section of town through zoning. Honor the public process. Honor the document that was adopted as the guiding policy for the city of Hudson.

Thank you.

Thank you, mister Meldrum. Anyone else from the public who wishes wishes to speak? Also five minutes. Name and address please.

Susan Newman, 2694 Stonebridge Court. So, I am also part of Hudson Heritage Association. I'm actually speaking on behalf of myself tonight, but I think with the support of the as well. So thank you for the opportunity to speak. There's a few points I wanted to address regarding the proposed zoning change for District 11.

I've been trying to follow along and understand everything that's been happening. During a recent council meeting, a council member mentioned that there's been confusion about Dara Road being envisioned as a mixed use area. They explained that the concept of the district was based on the comprehensive plan and that resident input suggesting the Dara Road corridor should focus on mixed use development referencing page 68 of the plan. When I heard that, I was curious how we might all be reading the same text but arriving at different interpretations, so I went back and looked at the plan. It is true that the plan mentions mixed use, however, that statement appears in a broader context.

Page 68 specifically discusses the Darrow Road corridor from Stony Hill to Norton Road which extends well beyond the scope of District 11. The plan states that Darrow Road currently provides a blend of commercial, office, and light industrial uses with no distinct character. It then describes a vision of enhancing that existing mix, commercial and light industrial uses while supporting the suburban residential development in public or semi public spaces. The goal is to create a distinct district that complements Downtown Hudson on Darrow Road. In other words, the mix described in the plan refers to a corridor that already contains a variety of uses and the vision is to refine and enhance that balance.

In fact parts of that mix are already occurring. The area includes residential uses and a new townhouse development by Pulte, the Preserve Of Hudson has been proposed with 29 units off of Darrow Road. The city has also identified land in this area as a potential site for a recreation center. These examples illustrate how different uses can coexist in this part of town. But I then went one step further, I turned the page from 68 to 69.

If you look at page 69 of the comprehensive plan, there's a diagram showing the focus area for future land use. That diagram does not indicate a large mixed use plan development of the type currently being discussed and must be used as it is designed to provide clarity and context to the preceding text. It does propose a narrow band fronting Darrow Road for development to bolster the area, area, not a large scale multi use planned development. Another concern many residents share is that while we, the under informed, I'm including myself in that, are discussing a zoning change, much of the conversation at council meetings has referenced something more specific, a large mixed use plan development. We've heard references to housing, entertainment, shopping, restaurants, and more than a 100 residences described as a place where people could live, work, and play.

That naturally raises questions for residents. If the discussion is about zoning, we understand that it sets what could potentially be allowed in the future. But when detailed concepts begin to enter the conversation before the zoning decision is complete, it becomes difficult to separate the abstract zoning change from the development that may follow. For many residents, this feels like a significant decision, one that could shape this area of Hudson for decades. Many of us also came to this discussion later than we would have liked.

A technical zoning amendment or change to the land development code posted in the agenda for council may not initially draw the attention of residents. A planned development that could include more than 100 residences, retail space and other commercial uses certainly would draw their attention. For that reason, we respectfully ask for greater clarity and transparency about the long term vision for this district. If the intent is to create a zoning framework specifically to enable a large of this scale potentially requiring a minimum of 50 acres and supporting significant residential and commercial uses that would be helpful for both the Planning Commission and the community to clearly understand that especially if a developer is already working on that plan. Ultimately, our request is simple.

We ask that any zoning changes closely align with the comprehensive plan reflect the priorities expressed by residents and allow the community sufficient opportunity to fully understand and discuss what is actually being proposed. Thank you for the time. I did wanna add one last thing in reading some different articles today, we're talking about the idea of supporting businesses to attract businesses. Loop resolve leaving Brexville even with the addition of Valor Acres. So doing a development like this isn't going to guarantee the businesses will be here.

Thank you.

Thank you, miss Newman. Is there anyone else who wishes to address the Planning Commission on an item not part of the public hearings? Anyone else? Seeing none, we will close this part of the agenda for public discussion and move correspondence. This is an opportunity for Planning Commission members to, reveal any correspondence or communications they've had outside of the purview of public meetings on business affecting the Planning Commission.

Anyone have anything to report? Okay. I have a list here. I received a communication by a neighbor of Western Reserve Academy about whether a sound system was part of the new athletic field, that came in on March 1. She mentioned she's complained about noise. I thought I needed to address this to staff. I think that athletic field that we gave conditional use permit didn't have any sound system, but I don't I don't remember, and I couldn't find it in my records. And how do we what do we do with something like this?

We've we that has been on our radar. We've been in conversation with Western Reserve Academy. We've held that to our performance standards. We have noise Yeah. Or noise ordinance. So I've we've taken readings out there with the sound system active and they've adjusted that according to those noise limits. We have had calls over the past year or so and every time we have a call we do contact them, we go out there, we take the readings and we make sure

Appreciate that. I did get an inquiry from Mayor Anzavino about landscaping related to the Chia development, is in the Hudson Park and that's in progress. Do you have anything you wanna update us on, Mr. Sugar?

No. We had a request from a resident to for Chaya to install additional landscaping. I do have a a meeting with them coming up just on the overall project. I I meant to bring that up to them, talk to them, and

I didn't do any I didn't even answer the emails because it looked like I was just cc'd, so that's fine. Thank you for that. Also, I met with Councilman Brezovic for an extended period of time to discuss District 11 on February 27. I felt like it was a very productive conversation, and he seemed to understand the issues that were at hand at that time. Also, I went to the city's capital projects review, which is a very informative meeting, I didn't actually know that it happened until we got invited this year and I went on our behalf.

There were no items specifically that we wouldn't have known about. Mr. Sugar reported on projects that we've already approved that the public works people will have to accommodate, but I do have the materials with me if you are interested in seeing them. And at the end of that meeting, I had a casual conversation with the ARC Board Chair, John Workley, who mentioned that he would welcome a joint meeting with the BCBA and us, and so I have put that at the back of the agenda when we get to staff review that we will do that. And finally, on behalf of the Planning Commission, mister Hannon, we wanna express our condolences of the loss of your mother.

We did send a memorial tree and hope that you are comforted and our sympathies go out to you. That will conclude the correspondence items, and we have no old business on tonight's agenda. We do have new business, which begin with two public hearings. The first public hearing is on item PC twenty twenty six dash 72, which is a conditional use and major site plan request for Western Reserve Academy to construct an addition to the Wang Innovation Center. We will conduct this public hearing according to the order of the public hearings passed by the council for these items, and we will begin we've already sworn in all of the people.

If you are speaking on this project, you might wanna move up to one of the front rows, and we will begin with the staff report. Mr. Sugar.

Yes, I can provide some background. As mentioned, this is a request for Western Reserve Academy, it's a conditional use and site plan request for an addition. It's a 7,620 square foot addition to the Wang Innovation Center referred to as the Wick Building. Is located you can see the overhead view here at 130 North Oviatt Street. The property is located within the historic district on the Western Reserve Campus.

It's all on one parcel so there's multiple buildings on this parcel in District Zoning District 4. The building is pretty interesting. It currently houses the Knights Fine Arts Center, that's the southern portion of the building here. That was the original portion of the building built in 1985. And then the addition to the north here was built later in 1992.

So it's a it's a fairly recent building despite being on a, you know, in the historic district's historic campus. The addition will, as mentioned, expand the Innovation Center, which is a really interesting space and we would look at seeing an AI lab, two d, three d art lab, food science lab, dance classroom, digital media lab, robotics lab, and print room among other items within the addition. So the staff report is in front of you. I did highlight a few topics within the staff report. One, I wanted to mention stormwater.

Retentiondetention is required for new development. We've had conversations with the applicant and a recommendation from our assistant city engineer to expand a pond that's located to the north of this building and I can pull that up on the GIS but that is within the same drainage area and maybe more beneficial to provide more benefit in this area than building a separate pond structure right behind this building on their internal green. That was one recommendation. One item related to sidewalks. There is a requirement for new development to provide sidewalks.

There are none on the West side of Oviatt Street so we did recommend sidewalk extension between the two driveways fronting the building to the north and to the south of the building. And then we did mention tree preservation in the staff report. There are a few mature trees in the project limits. There's a group of Norway spruce trees kind of in the southwest portion of the addition and we questioned if those could be looked at or preserved in some way. So all the staff recommendations are on the final page here on page 10. But those are my my introduction, my comments, mister chair.

Great. Thank you, mister Sugar. Next in our public hearing, we will have initial applicant comments. You have thirty minutes, applicant, and introduce yourselves with your name and address, please.

Jason Boltz, 641 West Market Street, Akron, I'm the architect.

Jeff Jaco, Western Reserve Academy, 115 College Street.

Thank you. Go ahead.

Yeah, thank you. So as Nick mentioned, we're proposing about 8,000 square foot building. It's two stories and as the property exists to the west is the upper floor will actually walk out to grade on the west and on the east side towards Oviatt it walks out to grade on the lower level. So it's a two story building, but it walks out in a grade both sides of the building. So those three drawings there are the floor plans on the far right is the lower level plan.

And it's a little difficult to see on there, but on left side of the screen it's a little bit darker in color. That's the proposed addition area. And it's a continuation of lab space that exists in the building. It is quite overcrowded to say the least and a couple expansion of new programs that they're going to provide in there. So that's the lower level and that includes large lab space all the way to the far left of the screen and in the center is circulation and restrooms and that kind of a thing.

If you slide over to the next floor plan over, that's the upper level plan. You can see we're suggesting a main entry from a student entry on the left side there and again that's a grade. Currently the building does not have accessible entrance to that side of the building. You have to come up multiple sets of stairs to get into the main building. So by expanding westward like this, the grade catches up with the floor elevation.

So we're able to have a great entry from brick row. And on this level, it's the main entry for the students, a small cafe, additional lab space and a food science. And then one thing that links the two levels together on the far north is a stadium seating area. So what that is, is it's basically an enlarged stair landing for lack of a better word. And on the way down the stairs, there's some large seating elements that they can do informal classrooms.

So there's some views of it right there. So informal classrooms space, that kind of a thing, can hang up between classes or wait for their parents to pick them up. So it'll be that's a feature element for part of the curriculum as well. Those renderings just shows some that's the food science lab which faces Brick Row. That is the cafe as you come in.

So you're looking towards the right of that that shot is looking back out towards the backside of the chapel. So that's the cafe when you come in and that's just a typical classroom lab space. So kind of apply that to any of the spaces that any of those classroom spaces. The building itself is intended to have a traditional brick generally a traditional brick with a traditional entryway. And there are two more modern elements as you come in the entryway and on north end where the stadium seating is, we're doing a little bit more of a glass box thing.

So as one of the requests from the donor is to have there's

a

lot of technology being taught within the walls of the building. So wanted to reflect some of that. Also respect the fact that it's brick row, but also give a few hints that there's some technology happening within the walls of that building. So there are those two glass elements that are included.

Much sums it up for that. The reason for the expansion is out of the four thirty students we have, 400 students that go through this program. So there's 6,000 square feet currently and there is a ton of equipment, a ton of technology happening in that space and it's just overcrowded. And trying to get 400 students through there is is warranting this expansion for our program.

That's it? Okay, very good, thank you.

We do have Mike Wolin back there if we have any civil engineering questions as well. So if you have any specific questions about the site or the retention, you can bring Mike up.

All right, great. Well, if there's nothing else, we will move on then to initial questions from the Planning Commission members and I'll begin to my far right with Ms. McCoy. Ms. McCoy, you have the floor, any questions for the applicant or staff?

Excuse me, did the architect, this is more for staff, did the Architectural and Historical Board view this yet, or is

They they they came for an informal review, so the estimate did occur.

Because I I think if I remember correctly, they were looking at the glass portion of the addition. Is that the same glass windows? Okay. Alright. Thank you.

Yes. That was discussed and they asked the applicant to study that a little further to provide some of the views from Oviatt to see how visible that would be. But I think that would be would be talked about further in architecture review. There was no approval or anything, was just informal discussion.

And then I guess my only other question that I had was with the city arborist, with the Norway spruces, are are is there any conversation about having those remain? Or is there not a with the building and everything, is that not a possibility?

Well, it depends. I always try and preserve every tree we can. And if the over dig doesn't encroach on that and know damage the roots, obviously we'll try and keep those. We've, gone through here before with some other projects that, the trees have been approved to remove, and we've ended up saving several of them in the past that we can.

And the last question. Sorry, just to confirm that this is mostly expanding to accommodate the size of students and uses that you have. You're not gonna be adding staff or more students so this is just to kind of correct the size of probably some safety issues to having that many kids.

We have some safety issues with some concerns. We're also holding off on some they have large print machines in areas where they're trying to teach class. It's very disruptive, it's just not working right now. So no, we're not increasing students or staff for this.

Those are my only questions.

You, Ms. McCoy. Mr. Intermarado.

Did you include a site logistics plan? Didn't see that. Can you walk me through how material is gonna be received onto the site and where you're gonna store? Sure.

I don't know if you know where that is, Nick. Yeah. Or I could just.

Separate document, Nick, I think it

was Separate? Okay.

Yeah. Emergency access and site logistics.

Thank you. Mhmm. Documents open. Sorry.

Zoom up towards the north.

There you go. Yeah, right here.

Zoom up on that a little bit. So what they're looking at doing is utilizing there's an existing parking, small parking area between the proposed building addition and the building directly to the north. So that small parking lot will be utilized for coming and going under the property. They'll put a temporary drive up and around. You can see in that red sort of hatch gravel looking hatch pattern and the lay down areas what's highlighted in yellow.

That's about the only obviously, if go further to the West, so we're trying to not do that. But that's really the about as tight as you can get it because between the yellow and the building itself, there will be a grade change down. So we'll get windows down to the lower level space. So we can't bring that yellow lay down space closer to the building because there's sort of a moat between the brick row area and the face of the building.

I know it's going to be pretty tight site I would imagine. Are you planning my concern is how much material would you imagine being stored inside the building to keep the workspace clean and clear of potential fires or what have you?

I'm not sure how I can answer that or we do have a construction manager that's on it and they've been analyzing this and trying to come up with the best way to do this. So number one, intent is to keep a clean site just in general, but the existing building is going to remain occupied through the duration of this as well. So there's a lot of reason to keep this site as orderly as possible and minimize the delivery so there's not a lot of material laying on-site.

You know

it's going to be more of a delivered when needed situation.

So just in time delivery.

Yeah. Our construction manager we're going be working with, he's used to working on college campuses and keeping things occupied and doing that kind of just in time delivery.

This is one of the tougher jobs you've guys done over the last several years. Looks like to me it's just pretty congested. A little

tighter, yeah.

Is there structural steel members in the building? Yes. So you have welding and steel beams and so sequencing will be pretty important.

Yeah, and it's a challenging site. Topography is not easy, there's a lot of utilities running on the West Side of the building that need to be dealt with and it's

Do you have any reason to disturb the road, Oviatt, out into the street?

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, you have brick that you need to stockpile somewhere. Good luck. I guess I'm just maybe when you have Krill on board you could meet with the staff and walk us through how the truck deliveries are gonna come through the city of Hudson. Are they going to be limited to deliveries a certain time of the day?

Yeah, I mean we would keep it during the construction Obviously we wouldn't have deliveries after hours or before hours.

How many workers would you expect to be on-site?

I would say it's gonna depend on 30? That would be at most.

Where will you imagine they're going to park somewhere on your premises somewhere not in the street?

Well there's gonna be some parking on Oviatt Street because we have the one side of Oviatt that we don't allow students to park on, but it's allowed to be parked there. If we need to, we have other lots out back and we can run shuttles if we have.

Okay, I would imagine you might end up doing that. That's my main concern. Are you doing any of the construction in the cold weather? Meaning the brickwork or is there going be any temporary heating?

There's some temporary heating in the building. It'd be our goal to get, as much of the exterior wrapped up before it gets into the January. But the inside would definitely have temporary heating. It's very similar to when we remodeled Ellsworth Hall, I'm sorry Seymour Hall.

Yes, okay.

We had to keep temporary heat in that building as well.

Will you require background checks for the personnel that's on-site?

Yes sir, that's for all contractors on our campus. Even though we keep them in a fenced in area, State of Ohio requires that they have a BCI and FBI background check.

A crow has worked on your campus previously.

Yes.

So they understand working in Hudson. Okay.

Yeah I feel very comfortable with them. They've done a good job for us in the past and other schools that I've talked to.

Okay. That's the only questions I have for now.

Thank you, Mr. Inamorato. Mr. Romano.

Just a couple of questions. For the storm water improvements that Nick was talking about and it's in the recommendation, do you see any issues with that? What's the plan to address it or is it going to change much from what you already had planned?

Mike, do you have a plan yet for the North End?

Name and address just for the video.

Good evening, Mike Wolwan, Wolwan Engineering Group 4216 Karg Industrial Parkway in Kent, Ohio. We don't have a specific plan yet, we're in agreements with the general idea of enlarging the other basin that's already up there. It'll be a better bang for your buck storm water wise. We could do a small little pond area around this building, but it really wouldn't change anything. We're not catching enough storm water there. So by modifying the other basin, that's collecting a larger drainage area, much more effective for the overall drainage improvements.

Any timeline for when you would expect to have the plan in place?

We're just starting to talk about it now. So Jeff and I were talking about setting up a meeting and going to look at it here later this week.

Then the other one, you caught my attention when you said the donor had required I think having to do with the glass building at least. But I wasn't sure what type of requirements or restrictions the donor was putting on if any.

Just the request was that there's some between AI and robotics and there's a lot of technology driven curriculum being taught in the building. So he wanted some type of an aesthetic was readable from the outside as well as from the inside that was more temporary than the Western Reserve architecture. So that's we tried to be as sparing as possible with it and just limit it to two places and then make them as simple as possible. So really they become mirrors essentially is the in my head is the idea that they're a frameless glass, so you're gonna see reflections of the rest of the campus on that glass. So try to do that as tastefully as possible.

I've seen different projects, not necessarily in Hudson, but just in my career where donors want to have the last say a lot of times. Understandably, they're making generous donations. Has the donor reviewed the drawings of plans and as it stands right now is okay with them? No other restrictions other than the glasses?

He just want a more modern element to it because of all the technology. And in one of his companies, he has a very similar stadium seating component to his corporation which is a much larger scale of course than what we have. Sure. So it was kind of a nice nod to him. Thanking him for his generous donation of course.

Sure. Okay. Alright that's it that's all I have. Thank you. You, mister.

Have on the screen here the location of the pond relative to this building that we're discussing tonight. This is the house

Nick if you go down zoom in on that a little bit.

The pond or the build?

The pond area.

South of the pond?

Go a little bit south. There's another detention basin that we're talking about. It's kind of hard to see it in there.

The curve of the driveway there?

Yeah right

at

the top of the curve.

Yeah to the right. Okay. Up into the right.

It's kind of hard to see it. Right here? Yes, that's it. So that's the pond we're talking about enlarging and maybe, whatever the requirements are necking down the outlet to slow down the water coming down Oviatt Street from that area. Because there's a lot of water that comes from that area and that was a recommended. If we're after we may take a look at that instead.

I think the net, do you remember Mike what the net add an in previous areas 3,000 feet on.

If don't mind, would you just say those in front of the microphone so the video will pick it up in case anyone really wants to do the math on

The increase in impervious area I believe was 0.06 acres, it's 3,000 or 4,000 square feet. In the grand scheme of drainage design, it's negligible, it doesn't even raise the runoff coefficient for the area. So I think by modifying that basin up there will be much more effective overall to the drainage area than doing something small around this project, around the building addition.

Anything further Mr. Romano? Okay, Ms. Obert.

Well my question about the pond was answered. I think my concern's just around safety of the students. It looks like they will still be accessing the building as you say, they're gonna still be there. Where the auditorium is, that's where they're primary gonna be coming in and out, is that correct? Because right now you go down to get into the building right, so that's all gonna be blocked off? Yes. And

we'll keep all fire life and safety systems operational during that.

The whole east side of the building all the way down the line it all can exit directly to the outside from all those classrooms. So everything that faces Oviatt, probably three or four doors down that line.

I'm just saying students are accessing on the other side where green is, gonna They're be coming in so they'll come in through the auditorium.

Both come

down through the auditorium.

So that was my primary concern was that which I think you outlined pretty well, the pond. And I just have a comment about the stadium seating. I have a child at UC UC and they have that in some of their buildings and when I've been there, the students love it. So I think that's a really nice touch. It gives the students a place to study, communicate, relax, and it doesn't feel like a classroom but it gives definitely a lot of space to them which I think is pretty neat. Otherwise my questions were answered. I

have a number of questions. I just wanna clarify on one thing, staff, as far as procedure goes, this is a combined conditional use and site plan, so even though our conditional use would normally be sixty days, we do have one hundred and twenty days, is that correct?

Yes, correct.

Okay, thank you. I noticed, applicant, that there is no scale on some of your drawings, specifically C300 and C401, and also some of your drawings related to, they were, I got paper copies because I have to make notes put tabbies on, okay. So attached to your landscape plans, is that what I'm looking at? L two and L one. There are drawings that have no labels, I think they're yours, they've got no labeling on them, there's nobody claims them.

The Vismeg budget for It doesn't even name what the project is. I mean, I believe you and you can authenticate it for me, okay? But this is So, okay, so just wanted to draw your attention to that because the scale matters for me, I'm not an architect, but I do know how to read scale drawings, and so I have questions I'm gonna have to ask you tonight because some of those scales weren't available to me to know what I was actually looking at. Staff, this question is for you. On the staff report, when we're looking at site plan review, page three of the report sends us to page five for site plan analysis, and we go to page five, it says look at pages two to five, and I'm just wondering if, did you, I'm sure you didn't really mean to do that, but could you explain where I'm supposed to find the analysis on site plan review?

Site plan review is on page five six. Oh, I'm sorry. That that just had a yeah. The heading was was wrong. That's seven, eight, nine, and seven, eight, and nine. Excuse me. Okay. On Page five are the general site plan review standards of 01/2004. Then Page seven, eight and nine are the site plan standards of 12/2007. So then you have the conditional use standards on top of that, so that's what we led with. So you have three sets of standards that are applicable to the project.

Okay, all right, thank you. I wanted to ask the applicant, do you I walked the site today. I'm just gonna say I was struck first by the complexity of the topography there and the creativeness with which they shoehorned in other parts of the buildings already. Do you foresee safety issues with this moat that's being created beside the building, and can you talk a little bit about why you must have windows at the basement level? Is that a security thing that I'm unaware of?

Is it a design function because it's just nice to have sunlight? What's going on, driving the real design of this building?

So there

are several buildings on campus that have the exact same detail. The main classroom building right across the quad has literally the same detail where it comes down and it's ground cover to a small gravel area. It's yeah, it necessary for some overriding practical reason? No, but it gets natural light into the classrooms. And I think in my opinion, one thing that does is helps to bring the size of that elevation up a little bit more because when the grade comes right to the building, it's a one story building.

You look at all the other buildings on that quad, they're all multiple stories. So as you at least as you're coming up to the building, the building can grow little bit and feels a little bit more in scale with the rest of the buildings on the campus. So that's my other thought, but there's no code reason or anything like that. It's really to get the light down in those classrooms.

Okay.

Yeah, we have it on two other buildings as well. The Morgan Building on East Prospect Street has that condition around it and also John De Yong Library also has that same condition around it and we've never had any issues with students or safety concerns with Well

that's good. I hope I didn't jinx you

out of that. Right?

Thanks. But it was one of those things, I mean I had three boys and a girl, alright? I know who was jumping off of that wall. You may have students who are just not inclined to do that or what have you, but if it was a problem, and it's fine that you have it in other places on campus, that's not really compelling for me but if it's not a problem, that is compelling. Yeah

that's what I mean is it hasn't been a problem ever. We've never had anybody messing around down in there.

I don't

know if our students just aren't that curious or

Keep care them busy, that's what it is.

And it slopes down, it's retaining not wall where it just drops down.

Well there are some there right now. Now that you've got plantings at the top, Yeah, so it would be

that all goes away, yeah.

Yeah, it would be inconvenient to try and get to the edge of the wall with the way it's planted, which is good and I'm sure by design, but it was one of the first things that came to me was the mom alarms went off, alright? I just wanna make a note for staff, would you just make a note that the site design standards in 12/2004 d seemed to pertain pretty much residential uses, so I felt lost as I was trying to review this particular project, is non residential. So I wanted to talk a little bit about the entryway. My concern is that we got a picture of what the main entrance to this building is, which is on the south side, but we heard that there's a new main entrance that's gonna be onto the interior of the building and I believe our orientation of the building requires us to site the main entrance facing the street.

The main entrance will remain at Oviatt on the south side of the building. Is an existing student entrance. Go to one of the floor plans or even site plan, Nick?

Yeah, I

was gonna show what you're referring to, south side of the building.

That's the current main entrance for the building that fronts Oviatt, and then the new addition actually displaces the student entrance. So there is a student entrance, if you could zoom into the middle floor plan towards the top. So move your cursor a little bit to the right, that stairwell is the main entrance for the students. And I shouldn't say main entrance, I should just say student entrance. So we're gonna block that So off with the our west the new entrance to the west is replacing what's already there just moving it to the west.

And that's the one where you're down you go down in steps No, down to

that's another entrance. That entrance was added for access directly to the Wang Innovation Center. The entrance that he's talking about right now has a portico that you come up to that stairwell and all we're doing is just shifting that further west with this glass entry.

So Steph, here's a question then for you on this. If we have the main entrance facing the front but it's on the south and we are supposed to have, what I read to be a 60 foot setback for non residential development, which is what, the front yard is one and a half times the maximum height of the principal structure. Maximum height can be 40 feet, therefore we got a 60 foot setback allowable for the front. That's the Oviatt Street, am I correct?

Yeah, I walked through separately those items. You referred first to the main entrance to the principal structure shall face the Street. There are multiple entrances on the building, multiple entrances on Oviatt and as mentioned the South South entrance is considered the main entrance to the building and this is displacing a current rear entrance on the rear. So I was comfortable with that requirement. And then the looked also separately at the setback.

So the notes there where the existing building would not be extended towards North Urviatt Street, we're not increasing any degree of nonconformity. The south side of the building is taller, so that is nonconforming under the code. But it's grandfathered in. Knights Fine Arts Center is grandfathered in and the addition will be made to the 1992 addition to the north which is compliant and then this isn't exceeding the height of the existing addition to the north. And then even then the addition would have a footprint under 50% of the existing footprint. So I was comfortable if we even walked through like the variance allowances for non conforming buildings, it would be under that threshold.

So let me go back. So my question is between North Oviatt and the eastern facade of the building that exists, do we have Is that the front of the building? Are we calling it that, or is the front on the south side?

I'm sorry.

Hamigan said the front, the main entrance is staying where it is.

Great The Austin Island but my question ends up going to how wide the front setback is and if I'm actually looking at a side setback even though it's up against North Oviatt Street, I just wanna not ask the question about it, that's where I'm getting

I was considering this the front of the building.

Okay, and do we have a measurement on the distance from the right of way to the front of the building?

It's 60 feet.

It is 60 feet. It's right at the Thank you. Because the measurement wasn't on the drawing. And I looked, okay. Thank you very much,

all right.

Asked you about this. I wanted to ask you a little bit about the use of this building, I'm still not super clear on this. Is this a classroom building or is this a, like many libraries now have created maker spaces where kids can go, or kids, patrons of the library, can go and they could crochet and they could do three d printing and they can use photography equipment and they can do all kinds of things. Is this a sort of recreational makerspace or is this actually part of the classroom curriculum programming that you have?

Oh, this is definitely a curriculum program.

Okay.

Yeah. But it incorporates digital design and then fabrication of what you design. So it's classroom and laboratory.

So this is really only gonna be occupied during your normal classroom hours? We're not expecting that this is gonna be a hangout place where the kids are gonna come work in the metal shop after hours. They're not gonna be hanging out in the stadium doing concerts after dinner. I mean, it's a serious question because it's a class.

It is

a classroom building. It's gonna be utilized just as it is currently and our other classroom buildings are. If it's not staffed, it's not open to the students to use.

Okay. Alright. Good to know. Part of that was about the visibility of that stadium being a glass box, I've really wrestled with that. I appreciate on one hand the intent of announcing the building sort of through its design, On the other hand, the location of it, the fact that if it is used for a concert venue, traffic, people walking back and forth, that kind of a thing, it's not opening up.

Have you been to Mixon Hall at Cleveland Institute of Music? Okay. Short version is it's a recital hall on Raked Floor and then it's got a performance area, and the performance area is backed with a glass box, but behind that is a very deep garden so that if you go there during daylight hours, the people who are walking behind this can't be seen don't know what's going on inside the recital hall and the change of seasons of course is beautiful with the plantings that they have there, so they sort of built in the interior design by planting gardens outside and so I commend that to you as you're looking at revisions and things like that to contemplate whether or not that stadium could be located. I like it on the north side of the building frankly, from an energy efficiency standpoint, you're not having to air condition extra because of the sunlight coming in, but if there was a way to incorporate that with some of your moat areas around the building where you could have at least a brick wall or farmhouse stone or something like that that would an idea to throw out to you?

As the topography comes around the building, it makes its way down towards Oviatt and it's about three foot, if you were to walk straight north through the glass outside, it's about three foot underground. So we actually have a small little brick plaza there with some retaining walls on it and some landscaping around that. So it does sort of provide

a backup you're

talking about.

Will that

be a door

out to that then?

There's an egress door out to it, yeah. Oh.

And I also want to just clarify too that it's not gonna be concerts for performing arts in that stadium seating area, that is gonna be more demonstration type stuff, maybe some robotics being competitions held down there or classroom lecture type. It's not performing arts, we have that at the other end of the building, so.

You got a dance studio in there, I don't wanna make any presumptions about understand. It.

Good question.

Yeah. So on that vein, while we're talking about the uses, I was Do you have any specs on the machinery that's gonna be in the metal shop or the wood shop? I presume you're gonna have table saw, lathe, maybe multiple, they're gonna be running all at once. I noticed it's right below the dance studio.

So that exists today, that's

not Okay, currently so this is not a new dance studio, this is an existing one.

Right, that

side of the building is existing. So it will be, yeah, you might move a few things around, but as Jeff was saying, it's so overcrowded in there that we're thinning that out and moving it over to the west side which is the building addition.

I'm tracking now, you mentioned in the earlier presentation that the darker side was the new and I looked at this and it all looked green to me, so I'm sorry about that, that was my misunderstanding.

They've been hosting the city of Hudson's Take Your Kid to Work Day for the past like five, six years so we've gone in and the children utilize all the, all their students are there to help out all that equipment and is in there, the three d printers, the scanners, printers, things like that. That's really

Yeah. Velocity hosted an event there this last year. Was great.

Yeah. It's really impressive and it is really cramped. A

lot going on

in there.

Yeah.

Alright, I have a question about whether or not you've got any issues installing a sidewalk on North Oviatt Street along that way, do you have that in mind?

I don't have an issue with it if that's the city's requirement.

It would be and also street trees, that's a requirement too for a project like this. I didn't count your trees that are along the street so I don't know what you actually would have to put in, but then if you put in a new sidewalk, you might have to replace some of those. I just asked you that question about trees. So I did find that we had three different square footages for this project. Staff report says it's 7,620 square feet. Your summary says it's 8,047 square feet and then the cost estimate says it's a total of 16,820 square feet, but that's two floors, so it's actually 8,400, so what number are we working

with So the most current one is the middle number you mentioned.

8,047?

Okay. Just should be just under 8,000 square feet just under 16,000 square feet, right? Yeah. Just under 16,000 total for the two levels. I can't tell you the number off the top of my head.

The reason why there's discrepancy is because the project has been the schematic design, the Krill estimate was based on schematic design of previous version. As things have been developed and tightened up and we made other decisions, the square footage has changed. And then also when Nick and his crew were doing some of their look at it as well, building was continually being massaged. So it's now nailed down and those are the numbers that you're seeing from the architectural. There's a site plan or the floor plans that we're looking at with the three drawings on it has the summary on that and that's the most correct as of today. Okay.

On the stadium room, is that going to be illuminated at nighttime?

Yes, but everything's on controls and so it could be occupancy sensors and that kind of a thing too. So there'll be some minimal amount of lighting because it is part of the egress path. So it'll have some very minimal lighting in it.

What's the roof gonna be on that? Is it gonna be glass or is it gonna be?

No, it's a flat roof on the stadium seating.

So we would at least prevent the light from going up. It will go out, okay. One of the requirements we have under site plan review is about trees and tree protection, and I kind of want to emphasize that we have significant purposes, purpose statements in the Land Development Code, as well as review issues on-site plan that emphasize the preservation of significant trees. And while I would not expect you to watch all of our meetings, I do wanna let you know that this Planning Commission recently spent a lot of time in a public hearing discussing the preservation of a singular important tree visible to everyone who comes into Downtown Hudson. So I have real reservations about blithely looking over, looking past the loss of those Norway spruce trees.

And I feel concerned as I was standing there looking at it today, I do feel concern about if you're too close, whether you'll be able to save them or not. Did you do any work with the arborist? I think you did, I think I read that, am I correct that you've connected with the city arborist?

Our arborist just went out for a separate walk and sent me notes. We didn't have a formal meeting So I read it inside for or you then, okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Do you happen to know in your estimate for landscaping applicant how much of your budget of the $130,000 is actually for trees?

I'd have to have them break that down, don't know. And

did you discuss with staff the possibility of having trees credited to you when you preserved them in the process of making a development?

We didn't require any trees planted based on the landscaping standards.

They submitted a landscaping plan though, right?

Correct.

So they're going to be doing landscaping?

Correct, yes.

And did their landscaping plan meet our requirements?

Yes, there's no buffering required for this project.

Right, so they're just doing Yeah, they're doing Pretty landscaping.

Right, their

landscaping plan, correct.

So you're saying that because they don't have to plant any trees, even though they're taking trees down and they don't have to replace those, that's not what the land development code says.

Well we were recommending preservation of some of those trees but no, there was definitely a net gain on those trees that they're planting.

Alright. Well then just be advised that in the event there are trees that you feel that you have to remove, there is a credit available when you've re if you've preserved trees under the land development code for that. I am just gonna comment for one second about the donor's requirements. I am just gonna say that I understand when you're working in an environment of a nonprofit and you have a school and there are people who would like to give you large amounts of money, there's always a little bit of pride and ego involved in it. Is the person who's the donor, you don't have to go into too many details, but are they residents of Hudson?

Are they alumni of the school?

They're not residents of Hudson but they've sent their children through reserve.

And I guess I'm just, it's hard to have outsiders come in and presume to tell us how we should build a building when they aren't gonna be living with it and their children are now out and not gonna be enjoying it, So I do feel like you balanced it really in the grand scheme of things pretty well. I've asked you the specific questions about the stadium seating that I had concerns about related to excess light at night, and I noticed that the tree gets turned off. I happen to be driving really late, so the tree on on the that you've got with all the lights gets turned off. Let's see, I asked you about that. I had oh, questions about the cafe.

Is this part of the meal service plan that your students have, or is this a How is this cafe gonna work? And the reason for my question is because part of our charge is to safeguard the economic viability of the city of Hudson and I'm well aware that your students walk downtown and patronize many of our local businesses, I'm so curious how this cafe is gonna work.

This is part of the food science program. It's gonna allow the students to create things in the food science and then serve it out of the cafe. So there'll probably be a beverage, there might be coffee. We haven't really developed that completely yet, but it's not part of our program, our food service. So I don't see it

So do you know how often they're gonna serve food? I went to Home Ec in the 70s, okay, and we would make biscuits and we'd be like, hey, who wants biscuits? Was it a snack? Yes. Did it threaten the school cafeteria? No. Right? So what what do you anticipate We

a similar thing at our bookstore right now. The students can go in there and get some beverages and things. It's gonna be the same type of thing only it's supposed to be student run, so it might be open an hour maybe two a day. Typically we've seen things that are student run don't always take off like we expect them to.

That's helpful information, I appreciate that. Let's see. Staff, are we going to need any sort of plat notes related to the stormwater requirements we're exploring with the applicant on this? I mean, it's all their property, we can sort of presume, although I thought it was interesting, we can't actually prove that it's your property according to the deans. Squatters rights. Think you're there on, right, adverse possession, right Mr. Pittsford? But do they need to add anything to the plat notes related to that stormwater improvement that we're gonna ask

them We're to requesting engineer drawings for that, and our engineering department can review if there's any access easements or things like that necessary from a city's perspective.

One of the requirements is we're supposed to have the applicant enter the responsibility for stormwater maintenance onto plat notes. So are we gonna ask them to do that then?

Onto the

Their plat notes? Yeah.

Typically don't do that, but I'll look into that. I don't see that as a typical item that we have.

Usually sign a maintenance agreement to maintain those spaces, but I don't know.

I am working with the law I've been handed and the law says you're supposed to have the Platt notes. I'm sure it's not a problem for you, and it's very likely that the staff does not regularly enforce this, which means we really should edit the law and remove requirement. So, that's the purpose for my question on that. All right. Do you have any issues with the suggestions presented by the engineer's report?

Do not.

Okay. Those are all of my questions. All right. Next item in our schedule on the public hearing are comments from individuals withstanding. If you're an individual who got a notice in the mail about this public hearing and you wish to address the Planning Commission, you have fifteen minutes to present your comments or testimony.

Is there anyone who has standing who wishes to address the Planning Commission application? Any neighbors who received any mailings? I see none. Moving on then, any comments from the public, any members of the public who wish to address the Planning Commission on this topic in this application, you have five minutes to speak. Anyone from the public who did not receive notice, who wishes to speak? Seeing none, I will move on to final questions from the commission. Ms. McCoy, do you have any final questions for staff or the applicant? No further questions. Thank you Ms. McCoy. Mr. Intermarado.

Is the foundation of the new building spread footers?

Yes.

Is it any deeper than the existing building?

We're not totally sure, we'll do some testing there, but it's likely not. They're still working out the foundation details, I'm dancing around the question a little bit, but they're not expected to be any deeper now.

Do you anticipate needing dewatering or any underpinning?

Yeah, there's definitely some grade water there that's gonna need to be dealt with.

Are you gonna have to drain water you're saying or is it existing underground water?

No, don't Just

casual water.

Yeah, it's casual water, it's just the water table is pretty high in this area and it's so I think it's gonna affect that going down almost a story deep in that area. We'll have to.

Will you then have a sheeting? How will you hold up the soil, the dirt?

No, it'll be cut back a little bit, laid back at I don't know what

annual is going be. It'll probably take up all your site storage. But at that point you might not have

when too we're talking about that yellow space that it's going to have to lay back a little bit in order to get that, then they're gonna have to build it back up again in final grading.

So all those soil that's excavated is being hauled off-site?

Right.

Okay. As far as you know, the soil conditions from when the first building was built, I don't know what's disturbed her, but have they done soil borings?

Yeah, they did soil borings and so that all just came in recently. So they're starting to look at all that right now, how that might affect things. But they didn't come back with anything surprising. They're pretty standard 3,000 I think, I can't remember off the top of my head what they are.

It's about 3,000 pounds of You'll soil

have a pretty large hole there to keep the kids from keeping them safe. What's the extent of demolition in the existing building? Just openings or?

Mainly openings, yeah. There's some the main area of work is going to be there's a corridor that runs down the west side of the so the building to the north that you see on the site plan right now, that west side of that building has a corridor on it and we're adding on to that West side. So we're taking that corridor and turning that into changing rooms, some utility space. So we're gonna eat up some of that and then divert the circulation into the new addition is the plan. So, we're not really changing structurally anything, we're just repurposing square footage that's already there and gaining access from the existing building to the new building.

So then are the foundation walls of this building concrete or are they block?

They're block.

They're block. So then you'll have the backfill behind the block. And you have a tough little project there.

Not a lot of room around it.

I mean, guess that would be our concern just as it interfaces with the public, you're gonna have some pretty potentially exposures ongoing when you're in the ground. Okay, that's all I have.

Thank you, Mr. Inmarado. Mr. Romano?

No other questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Romano. Ms. Oberg. No questions. I have no further questions. Any final comments, applicant, anything you want to address to us before we have our discussion?

No, just thank you for reviewing the project.

Fantastic, okay. So this is the point during our public hearing process where the commission will just have a conversation and discuss future action. I'm gonna remind the Planning Commission before we launch into that, that we have been asked by the BCBA to be sure we're doing good findings of fact. So whatever motion for action you would like the chair to entertain, I would appreciate that you leave time for us to have findings of fact drafted that we can review and approve at this next meeting. Anyone wish to make a comment?

No, I think it's a well thought out project. I just suggest that the city and our staff should interface with you regularly during the excavation phase. Just have another set of eyes looking at things and I guess once you get Krill on board, you'll know more about how you're gonna excavate and what you're gonna run into. Who's the soils engineer?

It's Wirtz Geotechnical.

Okay. Well, good luck.

Any other comments? Anyone want to opine on incorporating stormwater improvements related to the proposal that staff and engineering has given? Sidewalk extension on North Oviatt. Do we want to include street trees in that regard?

I don't think there was any need for it. I mean, I thought what was existing there on Oviatt looked sufficient. It doesn't look like they're taking any trees down because the existing driveway that's there was just what's on the inside of their property.

Staff, would you all be comfortable asking staff to advise on whether or not that is necessary? I just don't feel comfortable making an exemption off the bat when our our drawings don't go that far east, so we don't actually know what trees are on, like that wasn't information given to us. I agree, I walked out there and I looked at it but I didn't take pictures of the street trees.

I took that to mean that they weren't they were not making any changes to those trees, therefore they should have already be in compliance but I don't have a problem making sure that or asking staff

to You ensure

mentioned earlier the sidewalk isn't designed yet so they could impact trees. I think it's appropriate to just cite that section that it would be in compliance with the street tree requirements and we'll after it's designed we'll count. We'll do the count.

Was there a third piece that we

Yes, further study tree and vegetation protection per the analysis on pages seven and eight. One thing that doesn't often get mentioned, well, staff recommended that we continue this. So this would be, their recommendation was that just we would continue this to our next meeting to wrap up these three items. And then we could take a final action at that time.

I might ask the question, what was the timing of the storm water there at the beginning of the process? Don't know really what from a tough standpoint, is it next, like you said, it's one hundred and twenty days for this. They've got some time Right. Wanna move on to it, but I would be in favor of the new subject of the further involved.

Is that a motion, Mr. Romano? It is a motion. We have a motion on the floor to continue application per the recommendations of the staff report. Do we have a second? I'll second that. Second from Ms. McCoy.

May I ask a question?

Yes, Ms. Oberd, time for discussion on that.

Have we not done this in the past with the staff recommendations to approve subject to those things and would that apply here? I'm sorry, Craig has something to say, Mr. Hammond?

Yeah, I'm sorry.

No, in that line, did flag these three as open items that still need some study but yes, that would be up to the Planning Commission. If you're comfortable with staff advancing these, if documentation is put to the record, these could be addressed on an administrative level. The Planning Commission is not comfortable, then it could come back to you for further information on those three topics.

Do we have any in delaying this for them to come back, do we have any negative impact to the applicant in that time?

I

really think it would be their benefit. Do you care to opine on that? I mean, you got work to do anyway.

Yeah, we are about ninety days from bidding it is where we sit right now.

So our delaying to the next meeting to determine those findings is backed and you guys have taken up these three pieces isn't I going to

think if it goes to the next meeting that's okay and we are scheduled to be on AHBR, the meeting after that anyways so that probably works better but going the full one hundred and twenty days would be

Alright then. An Thanks. Staff when you were making the recommendation was it with in the mind that we would continue it to formally come back in thirty days or sixty days or was it with the idea that?

Yes, but there was substantial discussion tonight. Again, that's up to ultimately up to the Planning Commission if you're on your comfort level with that.

Mr. Hannan, could you put a little more meat on the bones on how it would come back to us kind of administratively if without

If it came just to staff? Yeah. That would be You

guys would report

back If there's anything additional that could it would just be for staff approval. So it would just be you would be authorizing staff to confirm those three items are in compliance with the Land Development Code and we would administer that because there was a fair bit of discussion. But again, if you prefer to be able to see that develop further, the project could look to come back next month.

We have a motion with a second to continue it per the recommendation of the staff report. So we would need you to withdraw the motion and Ms. McCoy to withdraw her second of that in order to change it.

Yeah and by rule, I have to vote in favor of a motion that I made.

And just for your discussion on that. Yeah, and I appreciate that. I feel comfortable at this point in time knowing that we have something just under one hundred and twenty days and we're probably not going to need that. Just continuing it at this point, giving the applicant an opportunity to fill in some real gaps that they've got. If they need more than thirty days, which I doubt they're going to want since they have to go to ARC Board soon, They're gonna be busy between now and then. Think I'm comfortable that we're not holding the project up and we're also doing our due diligence to be sure the T's are crossed and the I's are dotted.

I think from what I'm hearing tonight at least, it seems like most if not all of us that are here tonight are in approval of this project. It's just keeping it going in the right direction and the formality of it all.

You could still bid the project. That development doesn't inhibit you from putting the project out to

bid. Yeah,

permitting it once we get past that point. I just was giving you a general idea of what the Sure.

Just so my members know, so you can proceed and we're not really holding you up. You'd need to develop that during the bid anyway.

Exactly.

Madam Chairperson, are you that I raise as opposed to doing it more from an administrative standpoint? I

think that's our job.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, that's all.

Especially with some of the scaling questions that you had, I think it's fair to come back and and just see those again before just push it. Not that I don't trust staff, but just And we've gotten into a situation before where we've had back

and forth.

A lot of discussion. There could be people watching that wanna come and make public comment next time Okay,

any further comments on the motion on the floor? Alright, seeing none Mr. Sugar, please call the roll.

Yes, Ms. Hobart.

Yes.

Mr. Imrano? Yes. Ms. McCoy? Yes. Ms. Norman?

Yes.

Mr. Romano? Yes.

Motion passes five to nothing. And so we will continue this. The hearing will recommence at the next meeting and we will look forward to supplemental materials. Thank you very much for your time and fielding all the questions. For the general good of the order, we're going to take a five minute recess for the comfort of the Planning Commission.

We will reconvene at 09:08. The time is now 09:08 and we will reconvene so we can begin the second public hearing on tonight's agenda. This is a public hearing on item PC twenty twenty six dash 73, a conceptual site plan review for a day care center. We will begin with our normal order of business for public hearings with an introduction by staff. Mr.

Sugar or Mr. Hannan?

Yes, thank you. I can give some brief orientation. Here's the parcel in question. It's located on the corners of Streetsboro Street to the North, Terex Road to the East, and Martin Drive to the to the West. As mentioned, this is a concept site plan review for the learning experience, a daycare.

The building is proposed at approximately 10,000 square feet. A parking area is proposed of 45 parking spaces along with a retention pond and an outdoor playground. My notes here, which I should have. We've through the staff report, we made comments on the site plan review items. Obviously the location of the property makes it a bit of a challenge for ingress egress of vehicles so we did ask the applicant to submit a full traffic impact report study that was that was reviewed separately by a consultant, a traffic consultant that we have.

So there are a couple documents in the packet related to related to traffic separately. We had comments on the wetlands that are present on the parcel. So we've asked the applicant to verify and expand on that documentation a little bit further regarding those wetlands. And essentially just other other recommendations based on those two items. Our city engineer, assistant city engineer David Rapp is here who had provided a review letter that kind of summarized the traffic impact report and our consultants report.

And separately we had some recommendations for potentially shifting some things on-site north closer to West Streetsboro Street maybe to alleviate some of those issues with the tree clearing wetlands, provide a more substantial buffer to the south. So those are my comments. It is concept review. So we did not include, I want to mention we didn't include the conditional use items as that wasn't before us today, but would be done in the future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Sugar. Next we'll have initial applicant comments. Are there representatives of the applicant who wish to come forward? Can you come, for your convenience, if you'd like to sit at this front table that has a couple, We'll take your name and address first and then I have a preliminary question for you.

Good evening. Can everybody hear me okay? Okay, thanks. My name is Jeff Durbin. I'm with the Crosslands Development Company. We are actually based out of Denver. We work with the learning experience. We're a preferred developer, I'll use that loosely because there's a lot of developers that do the TLE work. We work with them not only here in Ohio, but we're also working with them in some other states, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Texas, Arizona. And so we also act as the builder in a lot of cases.

So we're the developer, real estate developer. We work with the tenant, which is corporately the learning experience, but the learning experience is also a franchise organization. And so the franchisee is, they're sitting back here, Ryan and Kristen Kane who are residents of Hudson and active in

the

community. I understand there's a lot of basketball and baseball coaching that probably goes on.

Mr. Durbin, before you go on, I need to inquire just a little bit about the corporate situation we've got here. The applicant name is stated as Kim Tatch, I don't know if I'm saying her name right

or not.

Yeah, you did very good by the way.

Thank you.

I have a daughter in Germany, so I pretend that I know something about how that language functions. Yeah. The the company she's identified with is Crosslands Companies, and I did check to see if that was registered with the Secretary of State of Ohio, and that name is not. The city solicitor informed me that the correct corporate name was

Crosslands Construction Co of Colorado.

Yes, that's us too, yes. So Crosslands Companies is a umbrella name, because we have Crosslands Construction Company and Crosslands Development Company.

So are either of those then registered? Are both of those I should say registered with the State of Ohio?

Sounds like right now the construction company is, and, the development company will end up getting it registered before we move much further.

Okay. I wanted to bring that to your attention because I was very alarmed today when I

looked up

Crossland Company and found somebody had existed in the nineties under that name and was now defunct. Then I looked up Crossland Companies and the same situation, and then I realized I've spelled it wrong. It's crossed lands companies

Right.

And couldn't find anything

at all. Right.

So I thought, well, I have a problem, and then, mister Pitchford graciously clarified that. So just for your awareness

Yes, ma'am.

Get your ducks in a row as you need to and proceed with your presentation.

Yes ma'am, thank you. Yes, there's a cross land construction that creates, we create confusion for each other.

Okay. All right.

So the Canes will be the franchisees, they'll locally operated. They'll be the tenant of the building, will be the landlord, but then they'll have the support both in the curriculum and the materials and the training from the corporate learning experience that's based in Boca Raton, Florida. So that's kind of who we are and what we do. It's a prototype building, 10,000 square foot building. There's a small pantry in the facility.

Food is really not cooked, it's heated. And so the kitchen is not big, it's not a full functioning kitchen with a griddle or grill or any of that kind of equipment. It has approximately 5,000 square foot playground. That's derived from state licensing requirements for day cares. So maybe and all these plans will be run through licensing for their approvals and the health departments, of course, for all their approvals for licensing.

What else can I tell you about the project? Nick, by the way, we've been looking for several years for lots here in town. And we've met with Nick and had several pre app meetings on some other sites and landed on this one that we think will work best for everybody. And so we wanted to present this at this point to you all. We've got Mike here with our traffic engineering group who can address any questions that we need to.

And then I also have Chris Brown, who represents the sellers group who is more than intimately involved with the wetlands permit and the status of that as well. So we're excited about the project. We're excited for the Canes. We're excited for you all. It's a great product. And we've done a number of them. We've got a long relationship with TLE, the learning experience. And so we look forward to getting this product approved and move forward. So step one is tonight.

Okay, thank you. And with your engineering group, traffic engineering, did you want to begin now?

I'm here to answer any of the questions that you might have and go from there. Again, I'm Michael Schweikert, I'm with TMS Engineers, February, so I'm right next to you.

Good, thank you. Okay, if there's nothing further from the applicant, then we would move on to initial questions from the Planning Commission. Alright, Planning Commission members, Ms. McCoy.

So I have a couple concerns about, to start with about the traffic review mostly. Turning left out of there with the church across the street, I understand that you're gonna do a curb cut into Terex. Yes. There's with daycares, I feel like there's a lot of traffic at small amounts of time during the day, right? Like earlier in the morning, pickup time, there's a lot of people coming in and out.

That's also rush hour with the Hudson Crossings and people down you know we have Little Tikes and we have other companies right down on Tarrick. So when you were doing these traffic studies and the thought of just are you gonna be able to turn left out of the driveway or we have to go right and go around That's kind of my initial question.

That's a very good question because I would ask that exact same question, my kids go in there. Yeah, we think you can. I think that the report though indicates that because of the traffic that's not associated with the site, just the general traffic, we have an issue there already for people making a left hand turn onto 303. And as a matter of fact, the length of the turning lane that's there is not long enough. Initially when the site plan came through, the drive was actually, I I don't dunno if you could show the aerial view, the driveway was actually shown at the opening up there.

What we suggested was because of the traffic on Terex, we need to have the developer move that driveway as far away from the intersection as possible to make it easier for people to make that left. Then at the same time we believe that the traffic signal will definitely need to be retimed.

So with the curb cut that you'll do, the added one which I do appreciate you dropping that down, think that will help. If you turn left out of there, so my assumption is because I know based on Waterway and other places in Hudson which have that similar flow, how much space, how many cars will be able to like if because I can't imagine people will able to turn left easily crossing two lanes of terrace and then the other two lanes. Yeah. So will they can stop in between, is there only room for one vehicle to stop in between the two lanes, like the two divisions if that makes sense of where the median is? That's most of my concern with the traffic report is trying to turn left out of there.

Right.

I just

feel like

that's already a really busy intersection and if the church has anything going on I mean it's a very busy very busy church that

they have.

So that's kind of my mostly concern is that spacing issue as well. Will there only be room for one car in that median per se?

Yeah. We need to open up that median where the new driveway is so that they can get across at And the same then the person trying to make the left hand turn to go where he needs to go is gonna have to wait because of the amount of traffic there for the traffic signal to actually turn and as the queue then releases onto 303, then they can make their maneuver out to make the left onto Tarricks Road.

Okay.

Then we did have a clarification from the city's consultant who reviewed a report and they felt that after reviewing the information that we provided that there wouldn't be any issue with the church traffic.

And then along with indicated that during peak hours of drop off and pickup that the traffic could actually kind of queue up past the driveway if that's a did you take that into consideration with the changing of the lights? I mean was that all is that being all addressed because those are some concerns?

We think it's addressed, but I don't think that they're going to allow that to happen. I think you had said that everyone dropping off their students has to park, so they're not gonna be queuing out onto the driveway and then they have to take their kids into the site and then vice versa when they come pick them up, they have to park, go in and get their kid, and then the only queuing that you're gonna have is into the site waiting to make your left that you're talking about.

Okay and then the wetlands, because this property does border some residential uses to the south and the west, will you be able to add some landscaping buffers to help with some of the sound for the residents? I know it's during day like working hours but

So we will we and this is a very preliminary plan we put in front of you, we don't even have landscaping shown. What's interesting about this is generally we need about 1.2 acres to build a facility, have the parking, have a landscape buffer, have a detention pond. We have 2.6 acres on this site. We have a lot of land. So where the building is gonna be positioned, there's a lot of those trees that are on the west side that are there are mostly gonna stay.

We're not impacting those at all. And then on the ones on the South, well, and one of the things that staff was suggesting and recommending was shift the building, the parking, everything closer to three zero three, I think, is that right? So because again, we're trying to honor and maintain your setback requirements that you have here at Hudson. And so if we by moving it a little bit closer to 303, I think we can maintain even more of the existing trees that are there and not even disturb those. So with the there's quite a bit of buffer there now.

I mean, we're happy to do what is needed, but there's a lot of buffer there now that I think will serve well to everybody. Because again, it's not like we don't have any plans to come in here and subdivide the 2.6, create another lot and try to squeeze something else on the 2.6 acres.

And then my last question is do you foresee any larger trucks pulling in it, not like pickup trucks, but I know you were talking about that there's a pantry where food's heated, but not made. So do you expect any bigger trucks doing drop offs, pickups, things of that nature?

No. The heaviest truck that comes in is either two things. One's bad if it comes as a fire truck. But the other is the trash dumpster. That's the heaviest trucks we have coming in.

Okay.

Yes ma'am.

I think those are all my questions. Thank

you, Ms. McCoy. Mr. Intermarado?

Do you own the land right now?

No sir, we have not closed on the land yet. We've got it under a purchase agreement.

Madam President, we were just offering our guidance tonight, correct?

That is correct. Stamps recommendation is that we continue this conceptual site plan review does not require an affirmative action on our part to approve or disapprove. We can primarily give commentary, correct Mr. Schuger and Mr. Pitchford?

There is a motion, I can get that text up, conceptual plan we reviewed, there was a motion to approve.

When we review that?

The last conceptual plan was the townhome project on Owen Brown.

You approved the

conceptual You approved the conceptual plan, yes.

Oh, I'm sorry.

That's okay, I'll get the

I'm sorry, say that again because I actually didn't track on what you said. I was expecting to hear something completely different. Say that again, please.

I'll pull it up, but in the code the step is that there is an action

We do on take an action.

Yeah, you do take action.

Isn't there a Am I recalling incorrectly that there's a concept plan where we just give feedback? Is that on subdivisions?

Subdivision compatibility. Yes.

Thank you, there was my confusion right there. I stand corrected. We will be taking some sort of action on this tonight, not just giving feedback.

For the record, think for the Owen Brown townhome development, we did continue the first time and then they came back the second time when we approved the conceptual plan. Right, okay.

So Mr. Enamorato, any further questions?

No, I don't have questions, I'll have comments and guidance but that'll be next.

Is fine, just wanted to know where you were. Mr. Romano.

Yeah, it's a franchise with a prototype building, so how many prototypes have you done on the building?

How many have we developed or has TLE have developed?

Yeah, so the building branch of your companies, how many have you guys done? Oh,

six to 18.

Yes sir.

How long back is that going?

We have been a developer for five years and then five years prior to that we were just the builder for other developers.

About ten years. Then how many other, any idea how many other buildings across the country they've put up with this same prototype?

Well, evolves. If you know anything about prototypes, they never stay the same, unfortunately.

Fair enough.

But yeah, so currently there are about 400 system wide, there's a total of four sixty ish TLE daycares that span twenty years of development.

About twenty year old

Yes, sir.

Okay, any issues with any of the ones that you've built from a structural standpoint or a design standpoint?

We always have learnings. Sure. So we've learned and improved and tweaked the plans but nothing substantial, no.

I heard the one in Kansas City, how about in I thought it was was it Kansas City that you had another one in or did get that, did I hear that wrong?

We've built one in Kansas City but there's one that made the press in Kansas City.

Oh no, that one I did not. I just heard of the one that you mentioned. You had mentioned Kansas City I think in your comments tonight.

Right.

Yeah, but I was just trying to get an idea from a climate standpoint. You get country wide and there's a lot of different climates out West, Southwest, Southeast, here in the Midwest, different climates, different issues.

There are, mostly it's related to insulation and as you can imagine heating and cooling. Sure, yeah, for sure.

So yeah.

How many would you say you've built, you're out in Denver, but how many have you built out in the Midwest, would you say?

Well Midwest, we've gone to like I say as far as Kansas City. We haven't done anything any further east than Missouri. So the building design, so the way they generally do it, there's three architecture groups that Tealy Corporate has approved. And so those architects are responsible for the design of buildings from Minnesota to Houston and LA to Connecticut. And so the architect that we use, he's licensed in Ohio, but he's actually based out of Colorado.

But he's done, I think one or two here in the state, up here in Cleveland and maybe one down in Columbus. So yeah.

Yeah, was just trying to get an idea of the background.

Yeah, sure, appreciate Yeah, absolutely.

No no other questions for me.

Thank you, mister Romano. Miss Zobert?

My only question was, I didn't see it in the notes from the fire department. Is the driveway turnaround? I guess it'd be on the east side of the building big enough for the fire truck to go in and turn around in there? Can I make that turn?

We know if

fire department looked at

that?

I know fire department looked at it and said that the concept is compliant with their fire code but I don't have any other

They didn't

make any note for me.

Sometimes they tell us about

the turning radius We can from get expanded review notes from the fire department.

I'm just worried since they've got medians and parking there and handicapped parking, I just wouldn't want that to impede safety on any level. Otherwise I'm set with questions.

Alright, I just wanna start out and and just say that District 6 where this property is located is a very peculiar, district because we are your design review agency instead of the ARC Board, so we have design review subcommittee that reviews six and eight and we would be the people passing judgment on that which is different. And also our standards

You mean architectural design review? Yes Okay.

And this is a unique district also because the Western Gateway has very unique specifications, purposes of course we have to serve all the time. So one of those purposes is to create an attractive entryway into the city of Hudson, so I was wondering how you plan to do this with this development project.

We will look for guidance from you all for that.

Okay.

The nice thing even though, because over the years, we've done a lot of work for a lot of corporate groups that have prototypes. What's really nice about TLE is they're for the most part flexible on their prototype. I was meeting with the Kanes and showed them the variety of the building looks that we've done. And so just driving through Hudson and seeing the architecture type that you all have, I'm kinda guessing which direction you might lean and so that I think we could probably achieve that.

So that would be a portion of it and you're gonna be unique because unlike industrial buildings where our subcommittee is looking to make sure you don't have large curtain walls and those sorts of things, yes, you're right, you're at a very prominent intersection. You will be one of the first buildings people coming to Hudson see, so this is no small thing. Can you clarify a little bit what you mean when you say prototype? I use the word to mean like the experimental, we're trying to get it done, and I think you're using it maybe a different way, what do you mean by the word prototype building?

Yes ma'am, in our world prototype means it's for the most part the same building between here and Colorado and Texas the only thing that might be different might be the HVAC and then the electrical and all those kinds of things. Okay. With TLE though, and they do have a prototype exterior that they would like to see with some finishes and some colors and that represent their brand. However, they recognize they want to be part of the community and they don't want to make enemies and so they are open to suggestions and ideas and following guidelines.

Could you give us a brief description of what that branding is and I'm gonna tell you why I'm asking that question. Most of us who grew up in a certain age knew exactly what a McDonald's looked like because there were golden arches that were part of the sign that was everywhere and it was the same in every city and in a newer context, there is a pet daycare located in Twinsburg, Pet Pet Suites. Pet Suites, thank you. And their exterior branding is neon green and purple, large signage covering the building. So in a couple of senses, could you describe what your branding, exterior branding looks like?

I can, I don't think it would meet with your approval? No, so they like bright colors. The things that I think that are, and again, I wasn't quite ready to talk to all this, think I can speak broadly their brand components. They've got a couple. One is they've got a mascot that's an elephant named Bubbles.

So one of the brand components is they have part of their teaching and part of their learnings is they have some characters that represent behaviors and characters. And so one of them though is Bubbles and he's the leader of the pack and so on their signage they have a photo of Bubbles, y'all can look it up and see online.

My compatriot is doing so and educating as you speak, go Yeah,

Then on their prototype plans, they like to have some of these bright colors, yellows, oranges as highlights, but then the base color is generally either an antique white or brown tone colors or light stucco colors. Their finishes are generally a stucco or stone, but we have done a brick veneer, a red brick veneer finish that seems to be popular around here, just noticing driving around.

Okay, and I appreciate you just going off the cuff on that, but it's helpful for us to know, again, this is an unusual district and this is a gateway, that's the name of the district that it's in, so it would be important. This is a corner lot and the application indicates that the address is Streets Boro Street, which in my mind would be the front, which is the place where we're putting a large stormwater retention pond. But it is a corner, and I don't know if this is maybe for staffers, for the applicant, which one are we orienting this building to? Because the front door appears to be facing Terex.

Right. My understanding was the the building is oriented towards Terex.

That would be the front of the Yeah. So So we are not technically putting the stormwater retention pond in the front, we're putting it on the side, even though it's facing streets.

Probably has two front yards, but yes, a side front, yes.

When we first started laying out the building, Nick, with the city, we were under the impression that the city did not want the front of the building along 303 or Streetsboro. Is that correct or not? We were

moving away from access from 303, maybe that was the conversation based on the number of lanes and difficulty making a left turn off on 303. Yeah, our staff report we mentioned, we've been talking about architecture but that both sides would have architectural detail so it would be an attractive view obviously from 303 as well.

Staff, while you're speaking, under the purposes paragraph of, no, I'm sorry, this is under special conditions for Western Gateway. Item d four indicates that commercial uses, whether by right or condition, and this is conditional use, are permitted only if one applies, and item capital b is that the total commercial use does not exceed 10,000 square feet gross. I did not find a square footage marker on the building proposed. Is it within The building was proposed

at 10,000 square feet.

It's at 10,000.

Correct. Yes.

Okay. How'd you know that,

missus? I saw another.

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. No, that's alright. Sometimes they miss things like that. So in this case, if we've determined that Terex is your front, then we have the parking requirement that it be on the rear or the side, and if it's in the front, it's limited to only 25% or a one aisle bay across the front of the building. Staff, are we meeting this standard?

That was in the staff report or if it is buffered with mounding, so that's what we questioned, would the applicant But that was flagged in the staff

report, yes. Are we gonna be able to do that when there is when there are wetlands coming across the area that where the parking, I think, would have to go, if I'm looking at your item on page four of the report correctly, the mounding would have to be set back from Terex Road.

Correct.

And that would force something to traverse the wetland identified that's on the easternmost side of that lot?

Yes, the applicant is proposing to fill that wetland for the parking.