City Council - Regular Meeting

Council meeting to order and ask the clerk to call the roll.

Council President Middlebrooks.

Here.

Council Pro Tem Driver. Council Member Schultz. Here. Council Member Smith. Present. Council Member Lovell. Present. Council Member Murphy.

Present.

Council Member McClinton.

Here. I reform present. We'll proceed. If everyone will rise for the invocation led by the clerk, followed by the pledge led by Council Member Schultz.

Father, we just thank you for this meeting tonight. We thank you for our leaders of the city. We thank you for giving them wisdom and understanding through time. We also thank you for just the care and concern for this city. We thank you for all these things in the name of your son, Jesus Christ.

Amen. Attention, salute, pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

indivisible, and liberty and justice for all.

At this time, Mr. Mayor, I will turn it over to you, sir. Do you have any reports? I do not, sir. All right.

Thank you.

First up will be Dr. Lopez with the audit, the long-awaited audit.

Good evening, it's a good day. So yes, we are here tonight because we have finalized our fiscal 2025 audit and annual comprehensive financial report. I will say this document is about 150 pages. My dissertation was 250, so we're getting there. But I want to introduce Crystal Stell. I know she was here a few months ago. She's going to give a short presentation going through some high-level information related to the audit, and then we can answer any questions if there are any.

Afternoon, everyone.

Afternoon.

Okay, so as she said, my name is Crystal Stale and I'm a director with Mauldin and Jenkins.

Do you have the presentation?

Yes, I'm gonna. First, I wanted to say thank you for letting me present today the city's 25 annual audit. To respect your time, I am gonna keep it brief and just hit the high levels of required communications and the highlights. As you can see that's up on the slide, we do have this presentation here. You should also have received two other bound copies. That is your ACFR, your annual comprehensive financial report, and your single audit. But we're gonna just go from the presentation. If you'd like to, you can turn to page two. Okay, this is about Malden and Jenkins. I just wanted to give a little high level who we are and what we do, because we are your new auditors. So Malden and Jenkins has consistently been ranked in the top 100 firms of the United States. We have also been in business for over 100 years serving state and local governments the entire time that we have been a firm. We currently serve over 725 plus governmental clients and put in over 156,000 hours each year serving those clients. Now moving on to page three. I'm pleased to say that the city received an unmodified, which is a clean opinion. This is the highest level of assurance that you can provide for the financial statements. They are fairly presented in accordance with U.S. GAAP. If you're moving on to pages four and five, you're gonna see a breakout of the general fund, which accounts for approximately 83% of the city's total governmental revenues and expenditures for 25. This is gonna be by funding source, so your revenues and then your expenditures. We've kind of listed out just an overall breakout. Pages seven and eight, this is some of our required communications. As a reminder, management is the one that is responsible for the selection of accounting policies and estimates. Those are detailed in note one of the ACFER. We did receive full cooperation from management and all of the staff throughout the entire process. There were no disagreements in accounting issues or reporting. We did receive written representation at the conclusion of the audit. And to our knowledge, there were no consultation with any other auditors or accountants. We confirmed that M&J remains independent with the city and in accordance with AICPA professional standards. Looking at page nine, you will note that there were no past or unrecorded audit adjustments for the current year. However, there were prior period adjustments to net position and fund balance to correct material errors that had been previously reported. In the ACFA, you'll see that this is all detailed in note 18. These adjustments related to the modification of leases, subscription-based IT arrangements, also known as subitas, debt, and compensated absences. All right, lastly, on pages 11 and 12, you will see outline GASB pronouncements that will impact the city for future fiscal years. The remainder of this report or this presentation is simply gonna be highlights of additional advisory type services that Malden and Jenkins provides. We have found that many of our clients have needs that they're unaware that they could benefit from that we offer. So we have placed those at the end of this presentation for you to be able to look through. And if you're ever interested, you could let us know. We do deeply... Appreciate the opportunity that we've had to work with the city, and we would love to take any questions that you may have.

Any questions from council?

Mr. President, Melinda, Dr. Lopez, what's your thoughts? Opinion about I know a lot of discussion have occurred about the audit and need to audit City finances and of you gave me several presentations. I just want to give you get your two cents on this audit as well, too and great presentation as well So

So basically I will say from the audit itself, I've done 18 years of audits and comprehensive annual financial reports. This was by and far the most difficult. that I've been through and it took the longest because of it. However, I do think the time that Malden and Jenkins and that the Hoover Finance staff has put into this, I think it will set us up for future years, even the next year, that it will be much more palatable. And my goal is, assuming if I'm here, is that we would have this done by the end of March next year.

Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Dr. Lopez.

Mr. Smith? I think given the council's opinion, I think if Dr. Lopez would stay through the end of this term, we'd be happy about that.

I appreciate that.

I'd like to ask the young lady, and I don't know if you're prepared for a question like this, but where do you see the city's debt service at this point?

I don't have any of the exact numbers in front of me, but the debt service, everything seems to be in line with where it should be. I know that we have worked tirelessly to make sure that things are exactly reported as they should be.

I'm just wondering, how do you find the debt service as far as the amount of debt service that a municipality should have versus assets and income?

No, I think that you guys are right in line with where you should be. I don't think that there's anything that's significantly out of line or to be worried about.

Dr. Lopez, do you have an opinion?

Well, I just want to respond and make sure it's clear. One thing the auditors do is they're giving you the financial position at a date. So they're telling you this financial position at September 30th, 2025. They're not evaluating our financial condition. So I just want to make sure those are two different things.

That's probably really not a proper question for her then, is it?

Well, I think any question is certainly open. I'm just helping, hopefully trying to clarify.

Thank you to both of you.

Thank you. Any other questions?

Mr. Schultz. I have a couple of questions. This particular audit ends on September 30th, 2025. Is that correct?

Yes.

So this is for the previous administration. Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay. So with that in mind, it doesn't have an opinion of whether the city actually complied with the applicable laws or regulations. The only things that you report are tests that you performed. Is that correct?

Yes.

Well, we do report on tests that we perform, but it's in compliance with the standards that it should be as of that date.

Is there anything that remains that should have been tested that pertains to compliance?

No, I believe we have tested ad nauseum. I believe that we have gone above and beyond this year. As she said, this year has been a difficult year so that we made sure we have crossed every I or across every T and dotted every I.

What made it difficult?

Well, there was quite a few things that should have been, that we addressed that were previously reported that as I mentioned in there, there were prior period adjustments. and it's in your act for on note 18, it goes into detail all of the things that we had to go back and kind of reassess and reevaluate everything from leases to subidas to compensated absences. So they were all things that had to have prior adjustments made in the current year because they were materially incorrect in previous years.

And so with them being materially incorrect, would you say that was an issue with management at the time, or would you say that the auditors last year missed it?

I would say that maybe there's a combination. Not so much that the auditors. Auditors, as we come in, we're given information from management. So if not all information is known or given, things can seem as though they are being presented properly. But as Ms. Lopez has delved down into the actual details of all of this stuff, we have found that maybe there wasn't a clear understanding with maybe management and the auditors. So it does make it hard for us as an auditor to come in and test on something thinking we have a clear understanding when management doesn't. So it felt like kind of a perfect storm that had happened.

Very good. Thank you. Absolutely. Mr. Marks, you have a question?

Last follow-up, and I apologize. Dr. Lopez will not typically call you and ask you. Do you know offhand, if you don't, that's fine, S&P Moody's, what is our credit, and how beneficial that we may be able to get the triple-A credit What does that look like down the road, if that's possible? Because I think the Cash O'Han calculations have to be a little bit higher now to achieve some of those goals. So can you just go over that just a tad bit?

Yes, so we currently still maintain a AAA with Standard & Poor's and a AA1 with Moody's Investor Service. They have in some, I think a few of the years before I came back to the city, they've changed some of those criteria. We did just recently in, I found out this last week, in June get reaffirmed for both of those ratings. Of course, at the time that maybe if you were to issue additional debt, which... Anyway, if we were to issue additional debt, then there is a chance in doing that where they're going to dive in deeper and look at that. And then with those changed ratings, that could possibly change some things. But they have reaffirmed those ratings just on a cursory review.

Is that the highest rating?

For standards and pours, it's the highest, AAA. It is not the highest for Moody's.

Moody's is a one step below.

I think that's correct. Okay.

Thank you so much.

Any other questions? Has the city had a higher rating with Moody's?

No. We've had those two ratings since I was here before, I think. Thank you.

Ms. Schultz. The audit was a little delayed. Number of hours that you spent on this, can you estimate how many hours you spent on it?

Yes, we spent over 1,200 hours on this engagement this year, which is not typical for a city this size.

What is typical for a city this size?

We were anticipating spending more like 650 to 750, knowing it was an initial year audit, but exceeded that.

So almost doubled it, almost.

Yes.

All right, thank you.

I just want to thank you and your firm. I know everyone laid eyes throughout the firm, top brass and everyone. Dr. Lopez, you and your staff for all the work that y'all did. Yes, it was significantly delayed longer than we would have liked, and we're confident we're going to get it on time next year. Dr. Lopez was adamant that we get this correct, uh, not, not sacrifice speed over accuracy and due diligence. So, um, for that kudos to you and your staff. Thank you. All right. Um, moving on, uh, everyone received a copy of the agenda. Do I have a motion for adoption? Mr. President make a motion to adopt the agenda.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed, the ayes have it. We'll open up with public comments. And I apologize if I get this wrong. Ami Aiken? I'll help you. Okay, come down and set me straight. Candidate for District 7, congressional candidate. If you didn't know, tomorrow is Vote, get out and vote tomorrow, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

Yes, that's it. So it's Ami Aiken, like Tammy without the T, but we'll just keep practicing that. I can remember Tammy. That's good. I'll answer to that, too. Councilmen McClinton and Schultz, thank you for reaching out and having us here tonight, and thank you all for what you do for the city of Hoover. So I am, I'm Amy Aiken, and I'm running for the 7th Congressional District. And if you didn't know, you all know, but much of Hoover is in the 7th Congressional District. And so I've been asked what part of Hoover is in the 7th Congressional District. Well, it's from the Galleria down Highway 459 to Bessemer, Ross Bridge, the Preserve, Bluff Park. So there is a lot of Hoover in the 7th District. And so if you don't live in the seventh district, what I would want people to know is you do know people that live in the seventh district. So tell them to go vote. We need everybody out voting tomorrow. It's about 18,000 homes and 28,000 people. So those are the statistics. But what I really wanted to tell all of you is it's a privilege to be in Hoover tonight. Nearly 25 years ago, I started my professional career right here in Hoover as a special education teacher at Hoover High School. And I'd also like to say thank you to Councilman Smith, who at the time I was a brand new teacher and Councilman Smith and his wife supported so many of the needs in my classroom at the time. So it's an honor to be here and get to thank him for what he did for my students and me as a very young teacher. I didn't know where that first classroom would lead me, but what I do know is that first classroom is what helped the professional that I have become. And my career has taken me from that classroom, room B119 at Hoover High School, to school leadership, to higher education, where I prepared future principals and superintendents. The positions have changed. But the responsibility has always remained the same. That's to listen carefully, always understand the issue, and then deliver results. That is also how I believe public service should work. And I feel like many of you, you especially, would agree with me. So tomorrow, voters across the 7th Congressional District are going to choose their Republican nominee for Congress. And a strong congressional delegation matters to Hoover, and it matters to Alabama. It matters to the economic strength and the future of our entire state. This is not just about District 7. And really, it matters to our country. This race, the District 7 race, could change the balance of power in Congress. That's how important this race is. So on the eve of the election, on the eve of the primary tomorrow, I wanna encourage everyone to do something, and I'm sure you know what it is, to get out and vote. Vote. So for those of you who live in the seventh district, I'm honored to earn your vote. For those of you who don't, tell a friend. And for everyone here tonight, thank you for allowing me to return to the city where my professional life began. On the final evening of this primary campaign, I just can't even believe that it has worked out this way. It's an honor to address all of you, and thank you for your time. I'm Amy Aiken, 7th Congressional District. I'd be honored to have your vote.

Thank you, Ms. Aiken. Good luck.

Thank you.

Next up, we have Ronald Bradstreet with the American Legion Post 9-11.

Good evening. And thank you for allowing us to be here. My name is Ron Bradstreet, also known as Vanessa's husband to many city employees. I'm here tonight to represent Ryan Winslow, American Legion Post, 9-11, and Hoover, Alabama. Here for two purposes. One, to let you all know what we've been doing. And Fred's going to pass out a handout I've made for y'all so you don't have to hear me blather on for a while. And I dressed down tonight, too, because I didn't want to put the mayor to shame. So I dressed down a little bit tonight. But I wanted to introduce some of my friends and post members here. These two young guys here on the end, they were our primary fundraisers. for a long time and really helped the post get financially stable. And it just goes to show you that an Army guy and an Air Force guy can work together, okay? And that young man right there is Fred Hughes. He is our second vice commander, and he's in charge of events. And I'm going to tell you about him in a minute.

This young fellow sitting right here, Walt, raise your hand.

Okay, everybody's heard about the federal VA, and I hope everybody's aware that there's a thing called the Alabama Department of Veterans Affairs that represents all the VSOs in the state of Alabama, and they meet in Montgomery. And the governor is the chairman of that Alabama Department of Veterans, the board of directors. She's the chairman. Walt is the vice chair and the guy that runs the show down there and is from Hoover, Alabama. So let's give him and these young guys a round of applause. So I brought the heavy hitters with me tonight. And I'd like to also throw out a praise and a thank you to Gene Smith, who has allowed American Legion Post 9-11 to meet at Hoover Tactical Firearms since February of 2015, where we've grown from 53 members to 370 members. And we have not only our legionnaires, we have our auxiliary, and we have our sons of the American Legion, and we have an American Legion riders chapter now. If you ride a motorcycle, we got something for you. So I've provided this list for you, and I'm not gonna go through it. This is not totally everything that we do, but I wanted to keep it all on one page. But I know that some of you in here are familiar with our rhetorical contest. Right, Councilman Murphy? Yeah. And Boys State, Girls State, youth leadership. We're big into youth programs and scholarships, our rhetorical contest. There's one of our judges sitting right down there. And we have, we actually have, you've ever heard of American Legion Baseball? We're trying to get a team going. So we're very involved in the community to help veterans and and their families and to reach out to the community and make this a very veteran friendly and we work hard at it. Well, gotta have a little money to do that with. So this young fellow right here, stand up Fred, he said, he's a golfer, I'm not, we're gonna host a golf tournament. And we're hosting a golf tournament. And so I attached a flyer to the back. It's called the Legion Open. That's that guy's idea right there, Peyton. That's just the Legion Open. And it's two pages. We're looking for golfers. And we're not asking the city to give us any money, but I know y'all all know a golfer. I know y'all all know somebody. And I know that you could probably just help us spread the word. And if you've got any questions about the golf tournament, Fred is here to answer them because I don't know anything about golf. I gave it up a long, long time ago. But when we leave here, we're going to have a golf tournament planning meeting. Do you have any questions?

Any questions for these guys? Thank you all for listening. Thank you for your time. If I could, could we get a picture of y'all up front here, Mr. Mayor, if you don't mind?

We would be honored.

Exactly. Just a moment.

So this body met on Thursday and went over, before we get on to that, I'm sorry, there were two other people that signed up for public comment. However, I see those are for agenda items. So the public comment portion during this time is for non-agenda items, general comments. When those come up during the agenda, I will invite you to come down and speak on those subjects. This body did meet on Thursday night and went over each item in detail. For the consent agenda, we will not discuss any of those items unless there is an item that the member of this body or the public wants to pull off the consent agenda to discuss. Is there any items by council that needs to be removed from the consent agenda? Hearing none, is there any member of the public that would like to remove an item from the consent agenda? Ms. Waldrop, if you'll read the consent.

Item one is review and payment of bills. Item two, adoption of the approval of the minutes for the July 23 and July 27 regular minutes. Item three is a resolution for the purchase of pink ribbon shirts for the fire department. Item four is a resolution authorizing the mayor to execute a memorandum of understanding with Shelby County for the NCFI expansion project. Item five is a resolution authorizing the implementation of the region's P-card program and authorizing the chief financial officer to execute the documents that are needed for that program related to E911. Item six is a resolution authorizing the mayor or the police chief to execute a memorandum of agreement with the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency and the Alabama Gulf Coast High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area. Item seven is a resolution authorizing the mayor to execute an agreement with Trace Crossings Residential Association and accepting a statutory warranty for a right of way at exit nine. And item eight is resolution authorizing the mayor to execute a preliminary engineering right-of-way utility and construction agreement for a federal project with a state that is a supplemental agreement to the existing project.

Those are all the consent items. Mr. President, I make a motion that we approve all the items on the consent agenda. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to the regular agenda, Ordinance Number 262709, Mr. Waldrop.

Yes, this is a second reading of Ordinance Number 26-2709, and it would de-annex certain property for the city of Hoover that is presently located at 7160 Cahaba Valley. road which serves as the home of the Trinity Presbyterian Church.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we adopt ordinance number 26-2709. Second.

I have a motion and a second. We will open this item up for discussion. Any member of council have a comment or question?

Mr. President, I'd like to reserve my time for after we hear from the public.

Mr. Shorts. On Thursday, I asked if we could have a, I was told that the Shelby County had approved that the school begin operating if this ordinance goes through. I received a letter from Mr. Griffith today, attorney for the church. Is Mr. Griffith here? Did you receive the letter from Shelby County?

at 5.20, but I was not able to receive anything in writing.

What did they say to you on the phone?

Same thing that I reported to the council on Thursday night that it's pending approval or de-annexation here tonight that with the submission of our application that there would be no issue with us moving forward.

President, should he come down to the microphone so he can be recorded? Yes.

Is your question answered, Mr. Schultz?

Well, it would be better if he was on the microphone.

There'll be some additional ones. People at home can hear you better if you're speaking through the mic.

Good evening. So, Mr. Schultz, I reached out to Shelby County again, requested for confirmation in writing that essentially to affirm what I was told over the phone that if we were able to de-annex the property here tonight that we could submit our application for rezoning and the use permit with Shelby County and that we could proceed with opening the school on that basis essentially temporarily until we could get those permits in place.

But not to dispute it, but we have nothing. We have just the word right now. That's correct. Yeah, I was unable to obtain anything in writing. Yes, sir. All right. I also have a question for the pastor, if he would come up. Good evening. Good evening. Thanks for coming. Our discussion on Thursday, one of the items that was discussed was, would there be any chance of you vacating the property, selling the property? And your response to that was, no, you're in for the long haul in where you are right now. So yesterday, you sent me an email. Actually, it was yesterday you sent me an email And there was a curious sentence in the email that I just want to kind of probe a little bit. You wrote, it is worth remembering that this property was unincorporated at Shelby County less than 10 years ago and was annexed into Hoover primarily to increase its marketability. So was that why you asked to go into Hoover, to increase it?

No. So it was the church that was there before us and this is my understanding, that annexed it into Hoover when they went to sell it. So I think they did that with hopes of increasing its marketability when they were going to sell it. We bought it, so that ended that issue. So that's not anything about our intentions.

Got it. I may have some additional questions once we hear from anyone else. Thank you. At this time, any other comments or questions from counsel?

I'd like to ask the attorney real quick. You indicated that they gave you verbal authorization that they would allow you to open the school tomorrow without having to file any documents or you might would file the documents but without having to go through planning and zoning or receive any Any other permissions from the county?

Yeah, it's my understanding that they would view that as us. He used the word, and this is over the phone, literally in the parking lot before I walked in here tonight. So I don't want to misquote them. I know I'm on the record right now. I want to be very careful what I say.

Is he willing to do FaceTime?

I'm unsure. But if I can, the best of my understanding is, and what I was told the first time is, if we are DNX, they understand our situation. And if we will submit the application to go through the process of rezoning, that we will essentially be grandfathered in during that time period that our application is pending with the understanding that we're not trying to circumvent any rules or regulations. We just need a little extra time.

And what if the county was to turn you down in the end?

If they were to turn us down in the end, then we would have to pivot, come up with some other plan.

Thank you, Mr. President. I've got other questions, but I'll wait. Okay, Mr. Lovell.

So I just wanted to address the email that was sent last night as well as it says that the recurrent concerns that have seen or heard regarding deannexation have come from social media and in particular from one page that I believe provides an objective view of our situation as I understand it. The principal concern is that deannexation would cause a city to lose control over the future use of the property. And I just think it's important to highlight why you guys are here this evening. is because you're asking for conditional use. And so that illustrates the importance of having that type of zoning regulation in place because otherwise you guys wouldn't be here this evening. So I just wanted to make that clear in that point because I think it's important for the residents to mention that.

Yeah, I do agree with that. I think hopefully the concerns about future use are addressed with our restrictive covenant.

Okay.

I think that part of that email was really based on what we discussed last Thursday when Ms. Driver just talked about all the various uses that property could have under its current zone. So obviously we want to keep it a church, that we want to stay there. And so we've offered the restrictive covenant to the city that basically would mean that it's going to be a church for, I mean, basically forever as I understand it.

Mr. Waldrop, can you speak to the restrictive covenant?

Yeah, I do have some questions about it as well.

What we had discussed at the work session was having covenants placed on the property which would, if it was de-annexed, would restrict it to use as either a school or a church going forward, and also giving the city of Wright a first refusal in the event it was ever sold. As far as what Shelby County is going to do, I talked with the county manager and I talked with the county attorney, and they said that it would have to go to the planning commission, as I recall. but during the interim time that they would allow it to operate as a school. That's what I was told.

So if they do de-annex, there will be a restrictive covenant placed on the property?

Well, no, that's not what the ordinance has. That's something that we'd need to amend the ordinance to include that. Okay. I understand.

Mr. Walter, what did their attorney say about the time in between? After the application was filed, would they allow them to operate as a school?

That's what I was told by the county manager, and then later on Friday I talked with the county attorney.

That they would permit them to.

That they would allow the church to operate while they were waiting for the planning commission, and they told me a date that would occur, and I didn't write it down.

Thank you.

Now, back, I think there was a question about the covenant. Was that you, Mr. Murphy? Does somebody have a question about that?

I think you answered that. The only thing I would say is if so, it will still remain, have to be used for a church.

That's correct. If that covenant is filed.

If that covenant is filed.

Mr. Waller, can that covenant be modified by a future administration if they so choose?

When I'm stepping out here in deep water, when I start talking about what a future administration would do, but from my knowledge about the covenants, it would take the agreement of both parties to remove a covenant. But if that were to happen, it could- If somebody down sometime at some point in the future, if the parties got together, the grantor, the grantee, everybody's the owner of the property, then yeah.

So it's not put in stone. It could be modified. There's a procedure.

You could go to court, in my opinion. You could do that. Johnny, Scotty, you had a different thought? Yeah.

We're all three in agreement. Mr. Martin, can you speak to the current zoning of the property?

Property is currently zoned C2 within the city of Hoover.

And can you enlighten everyone what C2 means?

C2 is, I would say, one of our more permissive commercial districts. It is synonymous with our highway frontages on 280, 119, 31, and 150. And one of the most permissive, I say, because there are more uses permitted in that district than many of our other zoning districts.

So... If the de-annexation with the restrictive covenant goes through, this would be a much more restrictive use of property than if we kept it in the city of Hoover as is.

If it were de-annexed and the covenant is attached to it, then unless the covenant is modified at some point, my understanding is it would be restricted to what the covenant calls for.

Thank you. Mr. President, Mr. Martin, so walk me through one more time. Shelby County will give them a conditional use if an application is submitted. Now, Hoover's standpoint, why wouldn't we do that? I mean, I understand the rules. What is the difference in that piece of it?

So that is also my understanding. I had a chance to talk with the Planning and Zoning Director for Shelby County. There will be approximately six weeks minimum that the application will have to be submitted before the Planning and Zoning Commission for the county hears it. they can consider the conditional use at that time. It is a conditional use to operate a school on, I think the base zoning would be a low density residential or agricultural right off the bat. But we do not have a mechanism in our zoning ordinance for granting a temporary conditional use. That's really what it comes down to. I don't have that ability to make a recommendation for a temporary conditional use.

So there'll be a ordinance change to allow that. Okay. So let me ask you a question because technically I don't know what Shelby County ordinance states as well to whether they have a mechanism as well, or they're going to do it based upon however the vote. I'm not aware. Yeah. So, so Charlie, let me ask you this question. So legally could we, I mean, again, this is, you know, to de-annex for another entity to allow it to take place conditionally until they approve it, how can we do the same thing? That's my question. I mean, I don't want to technically... stop the church from proceeding forward, but if we can modify it too and keep it in our city district, then that's great.

We're not aware of how you do that. Not with the ordinance that you have.

Not an ordinance. And we can't modify anything today.

It'll be a heavy risk associated with if we do it. Correct. Liability. That's correct. And the question about could you remove them? Somebody asked a question about could you remove the covenant in the future? Everybody has to agree. You just never know what the culture and what the political climate is in 30, 40, or 100 years from now. So saying that it will always be abided by that covenant. I'll give you an example. There's a couple of private very exclusive high schools, I think, in New Hampshire, as I recall. One of them is called Phillips Extra, and the other one is called Phillips, and they were both founded about 250 years ago by an uncle and a nephew, and they had covenants. One of them wanted all the the kids that went through there to be steered toward Harvard and be Unitarian. And the other one wanted to go to Yale and be Calvinist. And now they're non-sectarian. So you just don't know what the future is going to be about when you place covenants on property.

Mr. President. Yes. To Mr. Murphy's point. So who's the, final arbitrator of truth. Is this a state ordinance or is this a council city ordinance that we could decide to change?

Concerning the process for dealing with conditional use, it's the city council's to determine.

Oh.

I'd like to add something, Mr. President. Can you guys just explain in layman's terms, because I know we have folks in here that are not super well versed in planning and zoning, what is the point of a conditional use? Why do you even have that in the process? Why is that important to have?

The purpose of that is that a conditional use is one that typically has impacts or potential effects on neighboring properties that are hard or difficult to account for completely within the text of the zoning ordinance. Therefore, in order to bring those impacts or potential impacts to light, discuss them and determine whether or not there need to be conditions in place to address those impacts, you have the process that we have in our zoning ordinance for conditional uses, whereby they are reviewed by the planning commission and staff, Recommendations are formulated and then those are brought to the city council for final consideration. And the city council determines whether or not there are conditions that need to be put into place to mitigate any potential impacts that they have.

And then on that topic, is the public able to provide input in that process?

As it stands right now, yes. Conditional use applications require public hearings at both the Planning Commission and the City Council level.

So they would technically have two separate opportunities to share more about how they feel on information that's been brought to light through the conditional use process?

That's correct.

And so things that could be brought to light, is a traffic study required for conditional use?

For most larger scale or any kind of assembly kind of use, we do ask for traffic studies as a part of the application packet to ensure that the traffic pattern and the traffic roadway network and the infrastructure that's in place is adequate to handle the traffic or if there are improvements that need to be made to handle the additional traffic load that the traffic engineer in said study would make those recommendations as to what the improvements would need to be.

Okay, that's good to know. I feel as if sometimes the conditional use process is almost seen as a roadblock when in fact it's an open door for the public. And so I believe that foregoing a conditional use takes away the rights of individuals who should have a say with what comes to their neighborhood. So that's just what I believe and hopefully that's provided the public with some more information about the importance of a conditional use and especially in that part, that area just across the street is a place called Tattersall Park and there's been a 20 year battle, if you wanna call it that, for conditional use. and that process has been in place. And I even wanna speak to the idea of the covenant, which I think it's really important that we have to learn from our past to help make future decisions. And I have credible sources who have indicated that there was a covenant in place for the Tattersall Park development, but that for whatever reason, it can't be found. I don't know the answer. That's neither here nor there. But the fact is, is that covenant was mentioned. and there's been a recent news story where there's been a covenant mentioned for land, and that covenant has not held up. That news story was covered today, so I think it's important that everyone in here considers the fact that a covenant is not binding in that sense, and I appreciate you guys for bringing that up on that topic.

It's going to depend on the facts and circumstances. I don't think you can take any one case and stand alone and say this is the way it's always going to be.

And I think just another, just to add a little bit more, is just down the street is a property called Pine Tree Acres. And that property was a tremendous asset to the community. It was a summer camp for children with disabilities. And that property has... changed its purpose over time. And that's to no fault of anyone, but the fact that things change, that's one constant in life is that things are gonna change. And anyways, just wanted to add that.

I do wanna speak on a couple items here. So for one question, currently the city does not have a process in place to provide a temporary conditional use for this church. Whereas Shelby County is able to provide that, the city currently does not. I don't know of a method that we have tonight to provide that. I will speak on our current conditional use ordinance. I think this is a good example of why we need to take a good look at the conditional use ordinance. and the inefficiencies, how it's currently written to process things in a timely manner. Not speaking to take anything away from the public input of conditional use. But the timing that's required between planning and zoning and council, there's a lot of red tape there, people. There's a lot of bureaucracy that can be dwindled down and made this more efficient method that we need to take a look at. But for tonight, we either have really a vote for de-annexation or not. Any further comments from the council?

I want to kind of follow up on that right there. Mr. Martin, why are we here tonight?

We're here because it came to our attention that the school desired to open a school and begin class this upcoming semester. The conversation was initiated because the church had some concerns about the traffic signal.

Let me stop you right there. Let's suppose that had not happened. Okay, let's suppose they did not have a concern about a traffic signal, okay? Would we have known that they started a school? I would not have known. Would anybody have known besides the people going to the school?

Unless and until the impacts of it were made known and our office received a call.

And then what would have happened? And then we would be probably right here where we are tonight having this discussion. If it was after August 11th, what would have happened?

We would have, of course, sent warning to them that they were not in compliance with the zoning ordinance, operating a school on the site without conditional use approval.

Would you have shut the school down?

We would have taken our remedies to municipal court and had the judge decide. That would have taken time, right? Probably.

Okay. But that's the process we have. So we're here because of a traffic light.

We're here because it brought it to our attention that there was a use proposed for the site that there was not an entitlement in place for. Thank you.

Mr. President, I just want to clarify that does Shelby County have a conditional use, expedited conditional use process, a temporary conditional use process in place, or are we saying that they just wouldn't enforce what's happening?

So that's one of the things I wanted to speak to. They do have a conditional use process. And I think that addresses some of your concerns about public notice.

But I'm talking about a temporary.

I know, but I thought you asked both. So okay, a temporary. So they have a process. And what they've told us is as we file our application, we can essentially, we can run the school as we go through that process. What that looks like on their books and their ordinances, regulations, I don't know, I don't know chapter and verse or even if it addresses it. But what they've told us is you can operate as you go through that process, which is, Hoover doesn't have that option and that's the only reason that we're here right now because we will be going through a process and the public will have notice and the public will have opportunity to speak up, address the county with their concerns. And then with regard to the permanency of the restrictive covenant, sure, nothing is 100% permanent but It's drafted such that it will not go into, de-annexation will not, cannot occur until it is recorded in the probate court of Shelby County. So things, if you own a home, your mortgage is recorded there. My mortgage is recorded in Jefferson County, et cetera. That's how we keep up with things. So is it 1,000% or 100% certain to always be there? No, but that is addressed in the document itself.

Does it, one last question, does it concern you that you guys would invest time, energy to also distribute Choose Act funds to a situation where it's temporary conditional use, so there is a likelihood that you guys would not receive approval and now you've gotten to the point where, or is it just an assumption that you guys are going to get it?

No, there's no assumption, and it concerns us greatly. We've already received funds, we've already hired teachers, we've already enrolled students, so it's an extreme concern. Frankly, choose that, that's a big deal, but I have a lot more loyalty and concern for our parents and our students.

And then one other question I want to add is that there has to, you know, in the event that this does not pass, you know, there's plan B. I mean, have you guys reached out to any of the, on 119 alone, there's Briarwood Christian School and there's also Westminster School. And so have you guys thought to make arrangements there? Can you tell me about that?

Yeah, one of our board members reached out to, I can't list them all, I probably will not list them for lots of reasons, but approximately seven or eight local churches and asked if they, as soon as we found out about this, we started trying to track down every possible avenue, hoping that this process would work, but looking at other locations as a plan B. And thus far, we've been told no by everybody. It's a big deal to let 45 kids come use your facilities during the week.

One other question. Ms. Weld, are you done?

Yes, thanks for now.

On Thursday, you were not in favor of the covenant. What happened?

I spoke with city attorney and asked if there was a way. The church's main concern with the covenant was interfering with its ability to obtain financing for the sanctuary that we're trying to build. And so we feared that a restrictive covenant would scare off a potential lender because it would greatly reduce, potentially greatly reduce the value of the collateral. And so we were able to put our heads together and draft the covenant in such a way that it accounted for that. Okay, thank you.

Financing for... Sanctuary addition how much is that financing for a roundabout not that estimate? roughly I Think the the the financing would be for about three and a half million that sound right Carl some somewhere in that ballpark So y'all are significantly pouring back into this property investing in this Ross Mr. That miss president my last question question for you Sunday's traffic, right?

So I get them. I'm a process guy. So I How do y'all navigate Sunday's traffic for the church? Is it light there now?

It is. And the main issue with the light, which I guess the light's been there maybe for about a year now, something like that, is it's just a little bit confusing where it's placed relative to our driveway and what is on the other side of 119. So... Basically, we've just been asking for that light to be repositioned in a place where it would be clearer and safer in terms of ingress and egress.

So currently right now, do you have police that operates support?

We're not a big enough church to have police. I mean, we don't need that.

Okay, does it cause any traffic? No. Okay. What about Wednesday night service?

And Wednesday night, we do gather on Wednesday night, but, I mean, there's no issue. The light was a new addition, and so just because of where the light is placed, it's kind of hard to explain. It's a little bit difficult to explain exactly how the light makes turning in awkward, but it's just awkwardly positioned.

I guess the reason why I'm bringing this up, because doing the planning discussion, a lot of these questions are kind of discussed as well too. Um, cuz you gotta look at safety as well. Uh, you know, it concerns me as a tab and I don't know the traffic. What were the traffic Sunday is different than a weekday when everyone's driving to school and new drivers, you got, uh, I don't know how many different schools right there in that area right there, but Shelby County, Hoover, You name it, they're, you know, so again, look, I went to Catholic, went public school K through eight and Catholic school, high school. So I support the idea of different opportunities for school. I just, just having a hard time from a process standpoint and not having a lot of details associated with it. and traffic that may start flowing that way. And then if someone gets in an accident, especially with students, and then it's already a traffic-related matter. And if it had to be repositioned, I mean, that's going to be just moving it, costing a little bit of money. It may take up another pole, another massive amount of energy associated with it. Those things I just don't know. I'm in a tough spot a little bit.

And actually, yeah, I want to build on that as well, just because with the, I drive that intersection every day, multiple times a day, so I know what you mean when you say it's like awkward, but that's a, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that streetlight is owned by the city of Hoover, but it's on Aldot. property, so is there, have you guys even, is that light, is there even enough right-of-way to accommodate for, because you can't just move a light, you have to go through the ALDOT process, you have to go through the right-of-way, you have to, those types of things, has that, because that's a major undertaking to move a light, and I'm very familiar with that property. I don't even know if there is the proper amount of right-of-way to move a light.

Yeah, I can't speak to any of those things. The one thing I would say is that we have a lot more people, say, coming on a Wednesday night than we would on a school day morning with the school. So we're already dealing with it that way. The traffic that will be produced by the school is minuscule. It's talking about like 20-something families.

Just concerns about your conditional use with Shelby County? is dependent on Aldot and their ability to position that traffic light. And I think it's a real, I mean, am I unfounded by bringing this up with Aldot and the right of way, Mr. Martin?

I don't think so. Let's just say if we were going through the conditional use process here in the city of Hoover for the school, we would require the traffic study by a traffic engineer, and they would examine the intersection, propose improvements to the light, to the access. The light is maintained by the city of Hoover, but ALDOT is the permitting agency. So any alteration to that signal and that intersection would have to go through the permitting process with Aldot, and we would lean on the traffic study that came with the conditional use application to educate us as to what improvements needed to be made. Thank you.

Mr. President. Yes, Mr. Dean. Mr. Wilder, they brought up there, wishes as part of the covenant. Was it Mr. Barnett that worked up the document that we have before us tonight? Did you take into consideration their communication for the covenant?

We did. We've talked about this. We talked about it at the work session. We talked about it.

Right, but I didn't know if their they knew about the covenant on Thursday if since then if their wishes for the covenant because of the lending whoever their lender is they wanted it in such a way that Mr. Barnett would have featured that in the document that we have before us this evening.

I'll let him address that because I haven't had that conversation.

And is this the document that we're voting tonight or would we need to substitute?

Let me back up. Go ahead, Scott. Two things. One is I want to, what Mr. Griffith told you all about, his conversations with the Shelby County authorities are very similar to the ones that I had on Friday. And they do not have any temporary. They don't have some exception that they, for whatever reason, they just allow, uh, a petitioner if they appear to be trying to work through this process to go ahead with whatever the use is until they have their planning commission meeting. So that's different from what we do. We don't do that. That's not to say that we're right and they're wrong or whatever. It's just the way that's the history. Covenant I haven't had the discussion. I'm let Scott have that but So I want you if you've worked on the petition.

Mm-hmm Okay, let me repeat your question. Your question, basically, are they comfortable with the part of the covenant related to the financing?

Well, with the portion of this document where it talks about the covenant and the city's first right of refusal. Yes, sir. Are they happy with that? Because he had mentioned that they had communicated with city attorneys. That's right. I'm assuming it was you.

That's correct. At the... I'm going to call it the close of the discussion on Thursday evening. It was discussed that they would get with the city attorney's office and work through a potential covenant and restriction on the property. And we discussed that financing option. And for the sake of speed, I will tell you they threw over actually the first draft of the covenant, which was later amended with my thoughts. So I will go that far to say that they're so good with it that they offered up the first draft.

So is the church... If the council was to vote this, and I don't know if we will, if the council was to vote this document, is the church happy with this, with the de-annexation, with the covenant, the city has right of first refusal, should this property ever go up for sale?

Yes, Mr. Smith.

Okay. And it's fully executable to where no third party can interfere with the covenant itself.

Yes, sir, but if I may, Mr. President, address that.

That's a pastime. I'm not a president anymore. No, I was talking to that person.

I was asking his indulgence. Oh, okay, those are olden days. Third parties, first of all, just so everyone will know, the current motion in second does not include the covenant. That's my understanding. Okay, so third parties. This document will be recorded in probate with a petition. to de-annex. That's the basic procedure. You all approve it at your level. It's submitted to the probate court for the probate court to ultimately approve it as well. And when the probate judge approves it, then it gets recorded in the probate office for the sake of posterity. And so everyone... is bound by that. Third parties cannot amend it. It takes, I'm gonna oversimplify, it takes a slight second chair to a foreclosure based on financing. So I will say that if that's a third party. And of course, as Mr. Waltrip was saying earlier, deep waters when you start anticipating what future parties will do in a future city council. But it would take the agreement of all involved. It's a 99-year covenant, by the way.

This is not the document that is currently before us. We would have to substitute. Substitute that document. This is not the ordinance. that is currently before us, 262700.

You would have to amend your motion in a second to include in the ordinance that requirement.

The requirement, or does this replace the document in whole?

It does not replace the document in whole, no, sir. It would simply be an amendment to the motion in second to include that within the ordinance.

So the majority of this document is what we have before us, because we just received this this evening, so that's why I asked. Yes, sir. So the majority of this document is what currently exists.

Yes, sir. All right.

Thank you.

Okay. Ms. Lovell, and then I'm going to ask us to hold off until we allow the public to speak. Ms. Lovell, do you have one more?

How common, Mr. Waldrop and Mr. Barnett, how common is a first right of refusal for a city municipality for a property like this? Is this a common thing?

Well, I don't think there's any cookie-cutter approach to that. In fact, I would say that Deannexations are rare, and having a right of first refusal is just something that appeared to us that if you are gonna consider this and you're looking for a way to protect the city, that would be some further protection, but I don't think this is at all common.

At this time, we'll open up comments and questions from the public. Anybody from the public want to comment? If you will come down and state your name, general vicinity where you live, and you'll have four minutes. I will ask that you keep all comments and questions directed to the council.

Thank you. My name is Bobbi Breeding and I live in Greystone Legacy and we're very happy that Ms. Lovell has brought this to our attention. I'm a big believer in private school. I'm a John Carroll grad as well. God bless John Carroll. I have four grandchildren that have been homeschooled and now four of them are going to a newly formed Westminster-backed school in Bestavia. So I understand the need for this. What I don't understand is the rush. I feel like it's Sunday night at 9 o'clock and my son's saying, oh, I've got a project due and I need a piece of poster board. That's what this feels like to me. It feels like it's being pushed through too rapidly, that we've not had the time to give it the consideration that it's due. I don't know why the rush, why the lack of planning. And if I were a parent that was sending my child to this school, I would be concerned that there hasn't been all this work done previously. I wouldn't want to enroll my children in a school with this lack of preparation made by the people that are the administrators that are looking to go also into this large amount of debt. That would be hugely, very concerning to me as a parent, knowing... that that could possibly be ripped out from under them. Because we know, all of us have been children in school, and we know how that's your second family is at your school. So that's really my concern. I feel like that we are being rushed through this process. We're not giving the ability to give it the consideration with the traffic, with what could happen to that property down the road. Why Hoover should lose a piece of property because a group of people from a church want to subvert the correct procedure. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Breed. Any other comments or questions from the public? Yes, sir.

Billy Ely, 1000 Somerset Lane, Birmingham. Lived just around the corner from this project. First, I guess I don't trust Shelby County, you know, for what they're saying they're going to do. I don't know why there can't be a win-win that the church gets their school and Hoover keeps the property. There's nothing said that y'all release that. I don't think there's anything to say that y'all release that in a year. Birmingham comes through there and says, we're going to annex it.

Mr. Ely, I just want to comment. We've addressed the issue that we don't have a process in place to allow them to open up their school. And our conditional use process, probably the earliest we can hear that, this body was October, I would say. And that speaks to the... kind of to the inefficiency of the process a little bit, but also to the due diligence of the process.

And I understand that. I just don't understand, like the last lady spoke, why they get to this point and say, okay, we want to start a school, and they don't have any approval or any process to move forward other than trying to come through this. Thank you, Mr. Dean.

What's your name, young lady?

KT Thomas, Scout Creek. I have sympathy for everybody on this situation. So first, it seems like what we're doing by de-annexing something is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. And it seems like we might try to find a more temporary solution to a temporary problem. I think that there's no question that the church could have known ahead, but they didn't. It isn't like I think they're trying to sneak in the back door. The other thing that occurs to me is that this could be a controversy if we were saying we're going to go from a church to a bar, but we're going from a church that probably has Sunday school to a school, which doesn't seem like a giant leap to me, now I know we don't always agree, but it seems like that's a very small step. And as has already been stated, the traffic is a bigger problem on Sunday with the traffic light and all the other things than it is probably gonna be on a Monday morning or Wednesday morning. So I guess my plea to you is since we've already identified that the council is the final decider of these situations. Can the council not say in this one case we're gonna show some grace and we're going to allow a short term solution to a short term problem. Now it may be a big problem later if the council or rather the planning and zoning and then the council don't approve the conditions. And I understand that, but it seems like we're kind of headed down a sort of stupid road for something that's not, it's not a matter of life and death I don't think. And so I'm asking you to just think about temporary solution and maybe our city attorney can help you to figure out how an ordinance that you have the power to do could allow a temporary solution for this temporary problem.

Mr. Thomas, and I'll ask Mr. Waldrop again if there is a possibility of a temporary solution, but I think you hit on the issue with a possible temporary solution if we say give them temporary grace here. Basically what that would be doing is promising a result of allowance, future allowance, then that's something we can't necessarily do.

And neither can Shelby County. You know, they're taking a risk because of what...

I'm not going to speak on what Shelby County is doing.

No, but what I'm saying is that they understand there's a risk. And so the question is, either way, there's going to be a risk, whether it's Hoover that may not approve it or whether it's Shelby County that may not. It's a risk either way. The question is... Are we doing the right thing? And that's what I'm asking you to think about.

This is going to be a tough vote. I don't think it's going to be unanimous either way. Derek said he's a process guy. Ms. Lovell has concerns over oversight of this property. I look at it as sometimes you have to compromise when compromise is an option or available. It's not always what you want to do, but... You know, we just all look at it different ways. But I think what you're seeing is healthy discussion on the topic. And that's a good thing. We're ferreting out the best, you know, what the solution is going to be. Sometimes it's not the prettiest in the public sight, but it's necessary. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I vote necessarily or what any one person votes up here. This is a team and majority rules. And at the end of the day, I almost call this like a family. Family's going to squabble sometimes, but when the family makes the decision, that's what we'll abide by. And we'll move on to the next issue.

Thank you.

Ms. President, and I'll say this, Ms. Thomas. I always try to look at too, I've been thinking about this all weekend, you know, this is not our first school that has asked for consideration on certain things and they had to go through a process associated with it. It's a lot of unknowns, I don't know. When I mentioned about Sundays well, you know folks not going to work on Sunday, so I don't know the traffic count on Sundays compared to traffic count of workforce plus school plus just other things are going on, packages being delivered. There's generally an uptick on your weekday versus the weekday, and especially Saturday a little bit different. But Sunday is not, in many cases, a greater traffic load on Sundays. I mean, tenders of churches are going down in certain areas. So I don't know those numbers. So I'm in a situation right now. I really am.

Any other public comments? Yes, ma'am. Good evening. Good evening.

My name is Pamela Baker. My address is 1204 Haven Road, Birmingham, 35242. I'd like to thank the council for the opportunity to speak with you briefly about this issue. Traffic congestion... in and around the existing businesses and apartments is already well documented and well known to this council. Irregardless of the day of the week, the traffic is very heavy, particularly on Saturdays and Sundays as there are already churches in that area. My primary objection with this proposal is the precedent that it would set, that it would establish should the council approve the request. In future, other entities could cite approval as a basis for their request and would thereby leave the council in perhaps a questionable position and on somewhat of a slippery slope. Lastly, the future is an unknown commodity. Should Trinity decide to sell or lease its property, Hoover's residents would be at the behest of that action. Hoover's citizens deserve a firm footing on which its future can stand. and I would ask that the council affirm the best interests of our community and would respectfully request that you vote against this proposal. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Baker. Any other comments from the public?

Ms. Baker, I want to address that, kind of dovetail to Ms. Thomas' comments. My notes here say, let's find a way to make it happen. And the response was, It's going to set precedent. But we tried. We genuinely tried to make a way to make it happen.

Any other comments from the public? Any other comments from the council?

Mr. President, I would like to ask the city attorney. In the covenant, it talked about should the property go for sale. What about annexation? What if they chose to annex, say, into another city? It doesn't mention that. Can it?

It does not mention that.

Can it include that?

If it annexed into another city, it would have the same covenant that it has on there present.

Right. Can we, can we, if, if we were to do this, would it include annexation?

You can change. We can add that to it. Let me say this, a couple of things. If there was, if there was a temporary solution, we would have told you about it. And the only way there could be a temporary solution would be that you're going to establish a precedent that in our opinion, is not legally in the best interest of the city because that's going to be the measuring stick going forward. Now, it may be that you'll want to look at your ordinance and see about streamlining, do some things differently, but this hasn't. I've talked with Mac about this, and he's been here for 10 years. There's never been an exception. There's been times when it came to the council, the council changed the decisions, about the special use. That's happened. But that's why it's in there, so that it comes to you ultimately. It's on you. But it's got to go through the process. So that's why that's just not an option to say we can do this temporary. Now, the other thing is the church is taking a risk that they're aware of. We don't know what Shelby County is going to ultimately do. But, and we've talked about this among ourselves, I'm talking about your legal team, In an ideal situation, this is not ideal, but in an ideal situation, if this were an ordinance that was not pressed by time constraints and we have this additional addendum that's going to go to it, and Councilor Smith asked this question a while ago, and Scotty answered it the way that we agreed. that we think this petition that goes to the probate court is germane to the ordinance and it would not have to take a second reading. But if somebody wanted to attack that and say this really changes the ordinance significantly about the validation and they should have started over again, we don't have the time to do that. So we're giving you the best the best possible posture you can be in if this is what you want to do. And I can't say any more clearly than that. If you want to do this, I wish I could tell you that the covenant will never be broken. I wish I could tell you that Shelby County is going to allow this to occur. And I wish I could tell you that nobody's going to attack this validation and say that it should have started over because this is different than what we read at the first reading. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what people are going to do, but I will tell you that we think right now you're in the best possible position to defend this legally with what we've suggested, and then it's up to you.

Before we vote whether to de-annex, do I have a motion to amend the current ordinance?

Mr. President, I would like to say real quick before we go into the procedure itself, the first young lady that came down to speak, she was very eloquent in how she said it. Whoever made the decisions, and I'm not trying to belittle anyone, and please understand what I'm trying to say. Whenever the choice was made to start the school, somebody dropped the ball on finding out what the requirements were gonna be. And that is what has caused us to be where we are today. And y'all have basically dumped that in our lap. Y'all's mistake has dumped this in our lap and have put us in a very serious situation. And I appreciate what the young lady said. All right, sir. Back to you.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we amend the ordinance to include the restrictive covenant.

Can we include the verbiage for annexation as well as sale of property?

You can add that to it. Mr. Smith, you want to make a motion for that?

I would like to include that as a motion as well. Of course, it will need a second.

I have a motion. Motion and a second. Mr. Waldrick, can you reiterate what this motion and second does?

As I understand it, it's going to be that the petition that will be affixed to the ordinance is that the de-annexation will include covenants that will be placed on the property so that it cannot be sold without a right of first refusal going to the city and that covenants will be placed on it that it will continue to be used at the church or school. and with this verbal addition that that right of first refusal also applies to annexation.

But I believe someone else would need to second my motion. We have a second. We have a second. Yes, sir.

OK. We have a motion and a second for an amendment. That's what we'll be voting on only at this time. Mr. Dickerson, if you'll call the roll for the amendment. Substitute for the substitute.

Council Member Schultz?

Aye.

Council Member Smith?

Aye.

Council Member Lovell? Aye. Council Member Murphy?

Aye.

Council Member McClinton?

Aye.

Council President Middlebrooks?

Aye. With six ayes, the ordinance is amended. Now if I'll have a motion for ordinance number 262709 as amended.

Mr. President, I make a motion to adopt ordinance 262709. 09, as amended.

Second. I have a motion and a second. Any other comments by council? Ms. Dickerson, if you'll call the roll, please.

Council Member Schultz? Nay. Council Member Smith?

Nay.

Council Member Lovell? Nay. Council Member Murphy?

Nay.

Council Member McClinton?

Nay.

Council President Middlebrooks?

I'm going to say aye. So with five nays, one aye, the motion fails. That's okay. So we'll move on to resolution number 89-17-26.

This is a resolution authorizing the use and grant of public funds and things of value in aid of a private entity pursuant to Amendment 772 of the Alabama Constitution, and it's related to a development agreement with the NRE Riverchase LLC for the Riverchase Crossings East redevelopment.

President, I make a motion that we adopt resolution number 89-17-26. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Any comments or questions from council on this issue? Mr. Grimes, did you have something to present to us tonight in addition to what was Thursday night?

Well, I believe it's important that we declare this is a public hearing, so we probably need to have some discussion. We've got a presentation for those that haven't seen it.

Thank you. As Mr. Grimes stated, this is a public hearing, so we will open up that public hearing. Mr. Grimes.

Okay, we have before us the River Trace Crossings East, and this is the shopping center that you are familiar with that originally was a Kmart many, many years ago and a Food World, and today has become the home of probably the most popular businesses, currently Trader Joe's. But this section... This section just south of City Hall here, as you look at the image to the right in yellow, this is a 5.1 acre track that starts with the former Big Lots store and goes with Napa and the smaller stores to the east. So this section is to be developed and redeveloped. So I want to make sure when we rename this Riverchase Crossing East, you do have a Riverchase Crossing, which was the Trader Joe's development to the west of this. I do have with us tonight, the developer is NRE Riverchase LLC. Drew Herndon is here with us tonight from the company, so if you have questions. The total site's 5.1 acres. These images can show you what we have on the top is what it currently looks like. As we move down, you can see two images that show roughly with my graphic ability what will become two stores in that one big box, taking a 38,000 roughly square foot and dividing into just over 27,000 and 10,000 respectively for HomeSense and Shoe Department. So currently, our big lot store is generating nothing other than ad valorem taxes today. This is a more detailed rendering where you can begin to see even the facade of the entire strip center will begin to match up with what you have on the west section. So a lot of renovation, but as well as modernization and those square footages. The key here, the developer, NRE Riverchase LLC, will be investing close to 10.5 million in the total project. The hard costs are a little over 8.7. That includes the acquisition of the 5.1 acres all the way out to Lorna Road and the renovations that are proposed with this, and then 1.7 million in soft costs that are included. Those numbers are in your detailed packet that you received, I think, about two weeks ago. It's important to talk about the fact that in this development, both businesses will be sharing. And what was asked is a 50-50 share of the sales tax that would go for 10 years max. We project that the sales to reach the $1.9 million that's being requested in accommodating the renovation costs will some of those, that will actually be reached in year seven or better. We use conservative figures, but we believe that these two brands will be much more productive based on what we're seeing with the other stores in the center. And the reason for that, HomeSense doesn't exist in the state of Alabama today. It is a TGA Max product, so this would be the first in Alabama and first to market. And then the city of Hoover does not have a shoe department, so we actually do not have that. Congratulations, ladies.

Do we have men?

Okay, and men. Derek? I don't know. No, the mayor won't shut there. Maybe so. So the chart that you see to the left is some place or AI data that shows visitations in the shopping center. And I think it's important to show as we renovate and redevelop that we've been talking about with some of these empty big boxes that you can see the numbers trending with not only since May 14th when Trader Joe's opened. Sierra opened earlier this year in March. And you can see the significance of what's happening on that. And I know this past weekend it was packed. So you can just continue to see what would happen as we get these other two stores in there that are very popular. I do want to point out, you know, currently this is exciting because I think you'll have two Sierra and HomeSense, both being TJ Maxx products, that are new to market. They're both the first in Alabama. So those side-by-side will really generate a lot of interest, I think, with that. We also have the Prime location that we feel like this will trigger projects across the street with another empty big box in the future. now that we have the drainage project complete. And that we also know that currently, right now, a lot of people are not looking for 38,000 square foot. So that is why we have to do these renovations. In summary, as you see here on the last line, so the request for the incentive is 1.9 million over a 50-50 split of the sales tax with a 10-year cap. And the developer is NRE River Chase LLC.

Comments or questions from council? This is a public hearing. Any comments or questions from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to resolution number 888926.

This is a resolution granting a conditional use approval to develop and operate a freestanding emergency department located at 2137 Valleydale Road.

Mr. President, I move that we approve resolution number 888926.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. This is also a public hearing, so we will open up the public hearing. Any comments or questions from council? Any from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. Oh, I'm sorry. Come on down. We'll open that public hearing back up. You'll give us your name, please.

I'm Kathy Lyon, and I live on Highgate Hill in Indian Springs, resident of Indian Springs. And this facility would be in my backyard. It's been 500 feet. I just can't imagine having a freestanding emergency department. I'm assuming doing business 24-7. Indian Springs is just so special and I kind of feel like I'm in the country and yet I'm right there at 65 and 280, so it's great, but I would hate to see us spoiled by a facility like that. If it wasn't an ED, it might not be so bad, but I just think ambulances and I don't know what'll happen with making road access and coming in and possibly blasting. We've got lots of rock. So I'm just here to voice my opposition to that.

I appreciate your time. Well, thank you. Indian Springs is a beautiful community. You've got a lot to be proud of.

We do.

I will say this is not a trauma one emergency room.

Okay.

So whether there will be ambulance services, it's not the same as you're going to hear from a true hospital. We have a freestanding emergency room on 280 now, and then also one on 150 next to Sprouts.

So what does that involve? Who do they see?

So in my case, I've taken my family there when we've, so my son is special needs. If he gets sick, he may need fluids, you know, water. Without having to go to the emergency room where people have severe life and death situations. You have minor issues, even broken bones and so forth. You can take your family there and get an expedited care that you wouldn't have to sit through hours at a hospital. Does that make sense? I do absolutely understand.

How about road access? Would that...

I'll have to rely on Mr. Martin to clarify that.

It's so close to my property.

Yes, so the road access for this particular facility would be off of Valleydale Road. There is proposed to be a right in, right out just to the east of the traffic signal for Lowe's, and there will also be a tie-in to the service road and traffic signal in front of the Circle K to the east. Of course, Valleydale Road is a Shelby County road, They maintain it. They are the permitting agency for that roadway. So it's actually listed as one of the conditions that we, staff, and the Planning Commissioner are recommending that they obtain all of the necessary permits from Shelby County to access Valleydale Road. But no access to the exterior or to the rear. Thank you.

Thank you. I do appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Any other comments? Okay, now we will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to resolution number 889026.

This is a resolution granting conditional use approval for a day habilitation and respite services program for the property located at 3309 Lorna Road, Suite 203.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 889026.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. This is also a public hearing, so we will open that up. Any comments or questions from council? Any comments or questions from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to resolution number 891826.

This is a resolution approving a consumable hemp products license for Autry Enterprises II, LLC, doing business as SunMed, your CBD store, Hoover, located at 2341 John Hawkins Parkway, Suite 131, Hoover, Alabama. Harry Marion Autry IV is the executive director.

President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 891826.

Second.

We have a motion and a second. Once again, this is a public hearing, so we will open up the public hearing. Any comments or questions from the council?

Mr. Smith? Mr. President, I believe we need to hear again from... The staff?

If you'd like, I know y'all discussed this Thursday night as well, but if you want to hear from staff again.

Whether or not we need to have that on record tonight.

Who from staff would like to comment?

Yes, I did receive the affidavit from them stating that they had the notice up, so I do have that.

Very good.

As required by the ordinance.

Is there anyone else from the staff you'd like to hear from?

It's my understanding that the staff has a negative recommendation.

Mr. Martin, would you like to address the... Good evening, Mayor, Council.

Hoover Police Department conducted our ABC application investigation regarding a consumable hemp products license for Autry Enterprises to LLC doing business as your CBD store. Based on the results of our investigation, we would not recommend approval.

Thank you. Any comments or questions? Thank you, Chief. Any comments or questions from the public? If you come down, please. If you'll give us your name and area of town where you live, please.

My name is Lisa Autry. I'm the wife of Harry Marion Autry IV. And I am a resident of Hoover City. I have been in business for almost seven years, praise God. The reason I come to Hoover, we have a trustful store and have a 280 store we have been approved for. I made it a personal deal to meet with the police department, even though it was not required by the ABC board. shook a hand with the mayor, Mayor Derses, at a Hoover Chamber event, and I asked for a meeting, which you told me I would get one, and I never got it. I have emailed Stephen McClinton several times, because I just want you to hear me, from me personally, because this is my livelihood here. I believe in our products by far. I use them myself. I have used them for over eight years now, since we opened the 2018, the 280 location. I was disabled in 2010. I used every product I could from doctors. But I chose to try this out, and it worked for me. I have 39 bolts of metal in my left leg. Praise God I can walk, because all the doctors told me I'd never walk again. I have thousands of customers who support me in Hoover. It would be detrimental for them and their children, who have never had a seizure since they've been on our products. And it's been proven. I have Google reviews to stand by it. Businesses that I have supported since I've been in Hoover, you've seen me all over. I've been introduced to a lot. I have customers here who have been alcoholics, and they're no longer an alcoholic because of our product. Again, let's praise God that I'm here, and I have been here for seven years. It's all glory to God, not my personal intake. It's personally for my customers, and that's why I finally stood up, because you didn't hear from me last time. I didn't speak. I left it hoping that maybe being known by a lot of people in Hoover, I support Hoover. I have church members. I have pastors who are on my products. I have reached out several times. I didn't get my meeting with the mayor, but I would appreciate it. I did get with Chief Morris, but personally, I am a resident. We own two houses in Hoover, and I've done my due diligence. I have a clean record. I support the law, actually. I have a degree. I was a legal assistant, paralegal. And then I became an accountant at Milo's Tea Company where I have a couple of degrees in a lot of different stuff. But I chose to leave my career at Milo's Tea Company as an accountant. And I left it to do this in business in Hoover. The revenue speaks that we have brought to Hoover. And I'm really not sure of who is so far against me and my business. I am a small business. And from day one, we have been in compliance in every area. Not one time have we been, if anybody has tested us, we didn't fail. We had the lieutenant entrustful. Bradford, who actually stood up for us in the Trustful City Council meeting, stating that we were the only store, CBD store, who was in compliant with the law. And so I am just going to leave it at that. I appreciate you all giving me the opportunity to speak, but I would very much appreciate it. I pray for God's conviction in every single one of your hearts to really think long and hard before you agree to say no to this because it will be very detrimental to me. This is my job. I go to work and I am the staff at the Your CBD store in Hoover. I'm there majority of the time. I'm very personal and I know each and every, almost all of my customers by name when they walk in the door because I have taken my time to learn from them personally. And I thank you very much for my time.

Thank you, Ms. Autry. Any further comments from the public? If you'll come down, please.

Hi, Council. Thank you. I'm BJ Autry. I am the applicant, Harry Autry IV. I guess I got four names up there if I'm representing everything. Brought some real quick talking points. So just I've lived here or worked here in Hoover for 20 years now from different facets of life. Like Lisa said, we own two houses here. I can tell you as a company, SunMed, your CBD store, we're a franchise. We have over 400 stores nationally. We had as many as 600 at one point before COVID. We do everything in compliance. We are heads and tails above most of everything else. We've never been a smoke shop or carried pipes or bongs or papers or carried anything as a novelty. We're all about focus on health and wellness here at SunMed. And I've had as many as five locations. We've still got three. And so, you know, we were talking about compliance. We went down in 2025, met with Jabo Wagner that I know that you promote Mayor Dursey's and he does the same for you. He took our products home. He tried them out. He said, man, y'all have got amazing products. And we lobbied with the senators and the Congress people down there in Montgomery to try to keep these products clean and good. And we never carried synthetics, never once, even when it was our legal right to do so. Synthetics meaning Delta products that you saw at the gas stations and at the head shops and places like that. We never carried anything but compliant products. And so anyway, I'm... I'm blown away that we would even have any opposition. We've been there for seven years in that plaza. I sent a video to every one of you to show you that our team is compliant. Our franchise has always been compliant. We're all about focus on getting people healthy, not high. That's never been a thing we wanted to do. Our products, I don't know if you've seen it, or President Trump and Dr. Oz are going to get products like ours approved for Medicare and Medicaid up to $500. And those are facts, check into it yourself. It's in the news, and they already have a pilot program running, and it began at the beginning of the year. I listened to a podcast this past Saturday from John Maxwell. I don't know if you know who that is, Craig Groeschel. And it was all talking about adding value, and I thought it was very applicable to what I'm getting up here to talk about is... You know, I can tell you about the monetary stuff, and Lisa mentioned a little bit of it. Of course, property taxes from homes here, and then seven years of sales tax revenue for thousands of dollars a month, every single month for seven years, that could be enough in itself. But when you're looking at a small business, what about the community? So what value do we add? So just so you know, we've been members of the Hoover Chamber of Commerce since 2019. We've gone around and supported all kind of other local businesses. We're at ribbon cuttings, coffee and contacts, business after hours. We're involved. We're involved the same way out in Trustful. You know, we're We're very close with the people in our community. Over the past seven years, we've sponsored Little League football teams, Hoover baseball teams for several years, the softball teams. We've got the plaques at our store to show for it, and the teams bring your pictures and stuff like that. We are involved in, I've attended Church of the Highlands River Chase Campus since 2009. We do Serve Day projects. Just two weeks ago, I was out at South Sagecrest Elementary School cleaning up the facilities. We've done other places in Hoover. So when you're talking about adding value, I believe that we are pouring back into our community, which is, I think, what is important at any business. But I don't think you see it as much from Walmart or Target, just to pick on them. But your small businesses that are out here not making near as much income or revenue, are supporting those little league teams and the people. I've grown up with a lot of the people that are on captain of the the hoover fire department uh i won't mention their names because i don't want them to get drug into mind but a lieutenant for a police department one of your lieutenants is a is they're fine individuals and i know some of the cops here that i've grown up with and hung out with we're all involved in the community and and everything here and i won't take up much more of your time i thank you for the consideration um and i appreciate uh you know, the opportunity for being here and God has blessed us with the opportunity to be here for seven years and hopefully we can continue on. Thank you so much. Any questions?

Thanks for giving me a minute. So I grew up in Hoover. Oh, Brad Hallmark, sorry. I grew up in Hoover, graduated from Barry last class. Went and did the GWAT wars for 25 years. When I met Lisa, I couldn't walk. Shots in the spine, nerve damage. I'm held together with screws just like she is. The VA, they'll give you some shots and some pills. This actually works. And you see me, I don't walk great, but hell, I walk better than I did. She you don't see dopehead kids hanging out in there. You see old ladies looking for topical cream because their arthritis is hurting. It's not what somebody makes it out to be. She cares about the people that comes in there and she educates and she knows. So y'all should think about that because I'm just gonna go to Shelby County and shop.

Good evening. My name is Karen Ivey. I'm a citizen of Hoover. And I do believe in this store. They've helped me. I've been to a doctor. I have arthritis. I'm one of those old ladies that go in there looking for spray to ease my pain. And for a while, I was off of my Norco until the prices went up and they've been taken off the shelf, the product that I use to help my pain. I use it, I believe in it, and I think that you should reconsider the negative and approve their business. I really do, it helps. Thank you for your time and thank you for hearing me.

All in favor say aye. I'm sorry, I did not have my microphone on. I'll restate that. We're closing the public hearing. No more comments. So all in favor say aye. Those opposed say nay.

Nay.

The resolution fails. Moving on to resolution 89-19-26.

This is a resolution approving a consumable hemp products license for Light Coast LLC doing business as Gallery Smoke Shop located at 3065 Lorna Road, Suite D, Hoover. Brian Kelly and Gracelyn Kelly are the principals.

Mr. President, I make a motion to approve resolution number 891926. Second.

I have a motion and a second. This is also a public hearing, so we'll open up a public hearing. Do we have a recommendation, positive or negative, on this issue?

I did not receive the affidavit for this one.

No affidavit was received. And that's part of the process?

That's correct.

Can we hear a positive or negative recommendation on this issue?

Mr. President.

Yes, sir.

Irrespective of the recommendation, it doesn't comply with the ordinance. The application doesn't.

Okay, very well. Do I have a motion to remove this for consideration then?

Mr. President, I make a motion that we remove resolution number 89-1826.

Second.

Sorry, 89-1926.

Second. I have a motion and a second to remove this item for consideration. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Those opposed, we will not hear this application tonight. Moving on to resolution number 89-2026.

This is a resolution approving a consumable hemp products license for buy low quality food stores doing business as Piggly Wiggly. 265, located at 2148 Tyler Road, Suite 104, Hoover. Nassim M. Agiloni and Basim Alagioni are principals.

Mr. President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 89-2026.

Second.

I have a motion and a second. Once again, this is a public hearing, so we will open this up for that process. Any comments or questions from counsel? Uh, I will say I was not here Thursday night. Um, but I understand this does have a positive recommendation from staff, but this is, this is a grocery store. So this was a little bit different than a standalone store. As I understand it, this is beverages only.

That's correct.

Okay. Very good. Any other comments? Mr. President, I'm going to be abstaining from the vote. Very good. Any other comments or questions from council?

Did you make the motion, sir?

I did.

Then you cannot make the motion if you're abstaining.

Okay. Do I have another motion? Do I have a second?

Second. That would go to Mr. McClinton.

I have a motion. Mr. Murphy made the motion. Mr. McClinton made the second.

Okay. Very good. No, I'm great. Yeah. I just want to make sure that Mr., Mr. Schultz understood that he can't abstain and make the motion.

Mr. Schultz's abstaining is noted, so any other comments or questions from council? Any from the public on this issue?

I did receive the affidavit on this one.

Very good, thank you. All right, no further comments. We will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The resolution passes. We move on to...

Mr. President, one thing I would like to say is it's not necessarily about the products. It's about the staffs doing their due diligence and reporting to the council.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Duly noted. We will take a motion to withdraw two resolutions, resolution number 89-21-26 and 89-22-26, due to them being cut for satisfaction. Do I have a motion for withdrawal?

Mr. President, I make a motion that we withdraw resolutions number 89-21-26 and resolution number 89-22-26. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. We will no longer consider those resolutions. Next, I'll take a motion for resolution number 89-24-26 and resolution 89-23-26 together.

President, I make a motion that we approve resolution number 89-2426 and 89-2326. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Mr. Waldrop.

Resolution 89-2426, declaring a weed and other vegetation nuisance and directing the abatement of that nuisance at property located at 2337 Tyler Road. And 89-23-26 is a resolution declaring a weed and other vegetation nuisance and the abatement of that nuisance on property located at 405 Cahaba River Estate.

This is a public hearing, so we will open up the public hearing. Mr. Martin, do you have an update on these properties?

Yes, Mr. President. Code enforcement stopped by both of these properties today and found that both are still out of compliance.

Any comments or questions from counsel? Any comments or questions from the public? Ms. Beavers, come on up.

Hi, I'm Sheree. Thank you for letting me come up. I live on South Sanders Road. The gentlemen are property owners of 2337 Tyler Road. If I'm not mistaken, I know this property has been given to the council at least the last two years. We bring this up every summer with this address. Not sure what's going on with the person that lives there, but it is very much a nuisance to go by there and look. I mean, the grass is as tall as I am. And I'm just curious as to why every summer we have to deal with this particular address.

Mr. Martin, can you speak to the process? And what options there are available to us for repeat offenders?

Yes, sir. State law is very explicit about the process we must go through, giving adequate notice for there being weeds and grass out of compliance. Our ordinance states that weed and grass are out of compliance, what's exceeding 12 inches in height. and we must first declare it a nuisance, give notice that we are declaring it a nuisance, and then the process prescribes where we must give notice prior to entering private property and abating the nuisance. So there are two steps to that process, and the notice for that and the process as a whole is explicitly outlined in state code for us.

Very good. What about repeat offenders? What options are there for recurring? You just have to go through it every time, huh?

Once the grass gets above 12 inches, we start a case.

So, Ms. Beavers, we're kind of limited on state code here. Any other comments or questions from the public? Hearing none, we will close the public hearing. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to a first reading only. No action will take place tonight for ordinance number 262710. Mr. Waldrop.

This is an ordinance that exempts certain covered items from the municipal sales and use tax during the last full weekend of February as authorized by state law. It is generally referred to as the state severe weather preparedness sales tax holiday legislation.

Very good. We'll take that up at the next meeting. It comes to the end of our business portion. Any council comments tonight? Yes, Mr. President, I have a couple. You're only limited to one.

Okay.

Twenty years ago, on the 12th, is when we started an organization called BluffParkAL.org in Bluff Park. It was our first dealing with the city. I wanted to, we held a meeting in September of that year and I remember contacting the then chief if he would be in attendance and he said he will be well represented. But 20 years ago is when we started and we will be celebrating that this week. Good work.

Mr. President, I'd like to add, are you going to say something else, Robin?

He had to.

I know.

Are you going to say something else? I took my one.

Okay. I wanted to add, I wanted to thank our legal team, specifically Mr. Barnett and Mr. Waldrop. I blew your phones up talking about these issues, and I learned a lot through the process, and I just really appreciate you guys for taking the time to walk me through things.

Well, we were glad to help, and hope that others will call when you have questions.

Mr. Smith?

Mr. President, I was not able to go to the Bulls in the Park Saturday night. I was hoping to hear how that went. Mayor, did you ride?

I'm not in the hospital, so I did not. It was a good event. Of course, we had about an hour rain delay, but still had a good crowd, and I think everybody that came, it was a very family-friendly atmosphere. I think everybody that came had a really good time. And all I have to say that school starts Wednesday. Wish everybody success. We're going to start seeing the streets getting a little more crowded in the morning, so everybody please just kind of take your time and remember when those buses are stopped, please adhere to the rules and regs or the police will be looking for you. So I hope everybody has a good reminder. Thank you.

Any other comments from counsel? With that, we're adjourned.