City Council - Regular Meeting

We will call this Monday, July 13th, council meeting to order and ask the clerk to call the roll.

Council President Middlebrooks. Here. Council Pro Tem Driver. Here. Council Member Schultz. Here. Council Member Smith.

Present.

Council Member Lovell. Present. Council Member Murphy.

Present.

Council Member McClinton.

Here. All right, with everyone present, we have a forum. The meeting can proceed. I normally ask you to rise for invocation and pledge that the pledge will be led by Councilor Schultz. However, tonight, because Miss Lovell won America Day here in Hoover, she gets to lead the pledge tonight. So please rise for the invocation and pledge.

Stand, salute, pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

Remain standing, please.

Dear Heavenly Father, we just thank you for this day, and we thank you for our nation, and we thank you for our leaders, and I thank you for them being able to make wise decisions and have an understanding of everything that they are hearing tonight, and we thank you for just our citizens and the city of Hoover and for the blessings you give us in

All right, Mr. Mayor, I'm going to hand this meeting over to you, sir.

Good evening. First of all, I want to recognize Councilwoman Lovell for an extraordinary hot dog eating contest on the 4th of the 1st. I'm very proud of the statue that's sitting in front of you, sir.

Thanks for giving me permission to do the tarp slide afterwards as well.

That was good. I hope you didn't hurt yourself.

I did not.

Okay, good. It's all work. Well, we are wanting tonight to, first of all, fourth on the first for everybody, staff and everybody that came. I think that was a great night. We had about an hour worth of good lightning and rain, and I think a lot of us thought maybe this thing was going to blow up, but ended up having a fantastic time. The fireworks were incredible, some of the best I've ever seen, the best we ever had in the city of Hoover for sure. And that, I've already told staff, next year, instead of cutting back, we may do better. So it was a great, great night. I also want to recognize, come on up, ladies. We've got Julia Schumacher and Kambi Crumpton, Ms. Hoover and Ms. Hoover Teen. Just... Announced just like I guess just about three weeks ago They were crowned and gonna be great representatives and I want my wife Stephanie to talk a little bit about them and let them have a minute to talk they were With us on the fourth on the first and I think most of the council members that were there met him that night And again, we appreciate them and a good good ambassadors and look forward to the next year. So Stephanie I

Good evening, everyone. Good evening. Before I introduce two very special young women, I want to share that this year I have had the privilege of taking over the Ms. Hoover pageant. Julie Bentley is stepping down due to her daughter starting to compete. So I have big shoes to fill, but I can do it. And I look forward to starting this year with these two beautiful women. Now it's my great pleasure to introduce incredible young women who are proudly representing the city of Hoover this year. First, please welcome our Miss Hoover, Julia Schumacher. Julia is a senior at the University of Alabama. Joining her is our Miss Hoover teen, Cambry Crumpton. Cambry is a senior at Chilton County High School. Julia and Cambry were both crowned at our Miss Hoover pageant that was held several weeks ago, and they have already begun representing our city with great pride. And believe me, I've already been putting them to work. These remarkable young women are outstanding ambassadors for Hoover, representing our city with enthusiasm wherever they go. We are incredibly proud to have them representing our community. Now, I'd like to give each of them an opportunity to share a little about themselves and the platform that they're passionate about. Please join me in giving a warm Hoover welcome to Ms. Hoover, Julia Schumacher, and Ms. Hoover Teen, Cambry Crumpton.

All righty. Well, thank you all so much. We are so excited to be here tonight. Again, my name is Julia Schumacher, and I'm a senior at the University of Alabama, majoring in management with a concentration in healthcare analytics on the pre-medical track. And just a few weeks ago, I was crowned Miss Hoover 2027. It's such an honor to represent this city and all that Hoover truly is. my community service initiative is called be the beat advocating for cpr and aed awareness not only here in the city of hoover but across the whole state i started this community service initiative back when i was 12 years old just strictly teaching hands-only cpr but that has blossomed into advocating for outdoor aed cabinets to be placed in our city of hoover on on university campuses as well. I'm currently partnering with Cardiac Solutions here in Birmingham, as well as the University of Alabama to create the first heart safe campus in the nation. So I'm very proud of that work and I'm proud to save lives here in the city of Hoover. And I just thank you all so much for everything that you do for our city and all the work that you put in year round.

Hello, everyone. My name is Cambry Crumpton, but I think you guys know that by now. My CSI is CAM's cause of vision for all. I've partnered with Alabama Line Sight, who gives glasses to children and families who may not be able to afford them. I first saw the impact that glasses can have on a child's life when I was working a mobile eye clinic. I met a girl named Sarah. She was a fifth grader in my hometown, and she told me how her grades were failing, not because she wasn't smart, but because she plainly could not see the board. I got to see her put on glasses for the very first time, and I saw her life changed. And that is what made me realize that God put this platform so heavy on my heart, and I would love to bring it to Ms. Hoover's team, Ms. Alabama's team, and everywhere that I could. Thank you guys so much for having me today.

Okay, next I'd like to invite David Bannister up. He talked to me about three or four weeks ago about doing a Magic Moments Dine Out on July 14th, which is actually tomorrow. And I'm going to let David talk about it. I think most of us know what Magic Moments are and really what an incredible organization and things they do for kids. So, again, David, thank you for coming. Thank you, Mayor. Yes, sir.

If you are here as part of this initiative tomorrow, would you make your way down here to the city of Hoover Emblem so while we're talking we can recognize you? go ahead and start making your way down. And what I'll tell the audience tonight and our leadership, because many of them have already opted in, I have the unique pleasure, Dwight and I, when the Sandlin Foundation, we met Rachel Rounceville and Magic Moments almost immediately upon putting the foundation together. And nine months later, and now $91,000 later, we're full partners with Magic Moments. And I know Dwight and I look forward to each and every one of those Hoover families and additional families that we've affected. I know we have the Chick-fil-A cow, so if the Chick-fil-A cow would make its way down, they're part of the thing. And David Jackson and anyone else that's here, please come on down, as well as the Magic Moments folks. Tomorrow is an unprecedented day in Hoover. What you see in front of you here are a lot of business owners and restaurant owners, anywhere from Sticks and Stones to Brock's Gap Brewery to Tap-Ins to Hoover Steaks and Wine to Whole Scoop. to Richard Baker Barbecue, to Chick-fil-A, McDonald's, and Zeal with Power Brands, which includes Super Chicks, Cookie Fix, Phil Sandoval's, Melt, Taco Mama, Five Guys. We have 47 businesses, Mayor, that are going across the city tomorrow, all to... invite a friend, have a coworker, bring a neighbor, make a moment with someone tomorrow. And when you visit any one of our 47 business partners tomorrow, they're contributing back to Magic Moments. And in turn, we'll turn and help send some Hoover families on their Magic Moments trip. Before we take this picture and make this video, I'd like Rachel Rounsable, the Executive Director of Magic Moments, to just tell you briefly about Magic Moments. Rachel.

Thank you. Hi, everybody. Thank you. There are so many of my friends. I happen to live in Knott Square. So there's, you know, our sweet sticks and stones. I can't wait to see some. I got a lot of places I'm going to be visiting tomorrow. But thank you very much, Mayor and City Council. And thank you, citizens of Hoover. for the opportunity to speak tonight. I do represent Magic Moments, and we are the only wish granting organization that exclusively serves children in the state of Alabama with children who have serious medical conditions. Our mission is to bring hope, joy, and priceless memories to those extraordinary children and their families by granting Magic Moments and providing a network of families who also understand what they're going through. Tonight, I want to express our heartfelt gratitude to the Sandlin Foundation for Kids and Kindness and their incredible generosity and unwavering commitment to Alabama's children. We are also deeply thankful to the City of Hoover for your continued partnership and support, which helps make these life-changing moments possible. Together, and this is the important part, because we talk to these families all the time, your compassion reminds our children and their families that they are seen, valued, and never alone. We invite everyone to join us by visiting these local businesses participating in tomorrow's fundraiser. Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And then we'd like to hear from Dwight Sandlin, and then we're going to take a picture and do a video. Thank you, everybody.

I got it.

Guys, I just want to say, since we've been doing the foundation, I've found an amazing group of people, but none better than these guys. Please participate with this. It's an amazing, amazing thing. So please be there. Please be involved. Thank you.

Count three. Count three. One, two.

All right, then quickly, selfishly, I'm going to try something that we've never tried in social media. We're going to do a live video. We're just going to do a video. I'm going to say, hey, Hoover, we invite you tomorrow for the Dine In, Day Out program for Magic Moments. And then you guys are like, see you tomorrow. Let's go. All right. Let's go. We have three minutes. We've got five already. Hey, Hoover. Welcome. We want to invite you to tomorrow's big Dine Out, Day Out for Magic Moments in Hoover. And we want to invite you to come out to any of our 47 participating restaurants tomorrow. We'll see you tomorrow, Hoover, for the day-in, day-out from Magic Moments. See you tomorrow.

Thank you. Let me know.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

All right, council has received a copy of the agenda. Do I have a motion for adoption of the agenda?

Mr. President, make the motion to approve the agenda. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed? We have an agenda. So now we move on to public comments. I have, let's see, first up is Mr. Santush Mani. Come on down, sir. If you'll state your name, general vicinity, where you live, and you've got four minutes. Let's learn a little bit about cricket.

Yes. All right. Good evening. My name is Balaji Varda, and I represent the Alabama Tamil Sangam's cricket tournament, which is being held every year. except last year due to the facilities not being available. But our cause is to bring this sport and promote the sport of cricket. And of course, most of you would know about cricket. It's the second most popular sport in the world after soccer. Of course, you know how popular soccer is now, and especially that US is hosting the games. So every year we conduct this as a part of physical promotion. Along with that, what we do is we partner with the city of Hoover as much as we could. And also the games are conducted in Hoover East from 31st, 1st and 2nd, 31st evening and 1st and the 2nd. It's on a Friday evening through Sunday evening. So I'd like everybody to come over and enjoy the sport and have a good time. We have had many council, and Mayor himself has been there before many times, and he's exhibited his cricket skills as well. And happy birthday, sir. We had some very good moments, very memorable moments, and all this participation helped us promote the game to get it here. And thanks to the City of Hoover Parks and Rec Department, especially, which have been very nice and kind to us in the past. It's not only the game and the community, we also try to give it back to the community in one form or the other. In the past, we've always, tried to help and create awareness. For first year, we did it for the breast cancer. And then next year, we tried to give it back to the city of Hoover. We donated out of our fundraising back to the fire department of Hoover. And this year, we do have an agenda in place. But this year's awareness is going to be about disability. So we want to bring awareness about the disability. And I would like for Vinita here, she's an expert in that, and to give a...

Hi, everyone. My name is Swinitha. I'm a scientist at UAB in School of Health Professions. And our theme is all about disability and rehabilitation. And since this event is so good at promoting health, and I wanted to connect them with promoting health for disability, disabled people. And we work with all kinds of disability, cerebral palsy, stroke, and low vision rehabilitation and all of that. So I wanted to bring that awareness and so we're giving back to the community and that will do a fundraising and donate it to the Lakeshore Foundation which works on translational research that directly impacts disabled people.

Thank you, I'd like for everybody to come, have a good time, enjoy and show your cricket skills and maybe I really look forward to you and we'll upgrade your skills in fact, this time. Thank you, thank you everyone. Thank you.

Now we had quite a few members sign up for public comment, however, it looks like most of them are signed up to comment on item number 10, which is the incentive agreement. So if I call your name and you're here to speak on the resolution 886, item number 10, we will give everyone an opportunity to come down and speak on that during that time. The public comment is the time for non-agenda items. So Mr. Barry Goodwin, I believe you're here to speak on item number 10, is that correct? If you'll hold off for that agenda item, of May time, thank you. Patrick Flannery? Also item number 10? All right, and Mr. Steve Lawrence as well. All right, we'll get started on the agenda. Mr., okay. Come on down.

Sign up sheet was gone, sorry.

Had a lot of people here tonight, so I guess I had to park in the South 40 back there.

We've heard much from prior administrations and some from this administration about the new Exit 9 project. I've seen at least two conceptual renderings about this project. Those suggest an extension of Ross Bridge Parkway across Highway 150 to the new Exit 9 bridge over I-459. On the other side of I-459, the interchange will come up to Shadescrest Road. This is where the two conceptual renderings I've seen differ. One suggests an intersection at Shadescrest will be at Brocks Gap Parkway. The other suggests a new road heading toward what has been known as Elvira Road and or a planning stage development by signature. In either case, it seems obvious that anyone traveling from Ross Bridge to Hoover High School will take the new route using Brocks Gap Parkway instead of the current Highway 150 and Stadium Trace route. I have concerns over the traffic when this happens and it would be good if this were discussed a little bit. Brock's Gap Parkway is already very busy at times when school is in. It would be very helpful in the name of transparency and the standard of excellence for the city to provide updates on this project and how Brock's Gap Parkway will handle the increased traffic. Construction stormwater at the preserve is a problem. I'm being sent videos and photos of preserved parkway inundated with muddy water that is going directly into Hurricane Branch. Hurricane Branch flows red with mud water. A jury found United States Steel had damaged downstream property with prior phases of the preserve development. It seems United States Steel is continuing the same bad practices. The last administration did nothing to hold United States Steel accountable. Will this administration live up to the standard of excellence?

Thank you.

Mr. Winther, if you will, for the record.

Mr. Winther, Scout Creek Drive.

Thank you, sir. Any other public comments on non-agenda items? Very good. Thursday, we met during work session and went over each agenda item and in detail, so the consent agenda has routine items that will not be discussed and be voted on in one block unless there is a member of council or the public that wishes to pull an item off the consent agenda to discuss individually. Are there any items on the consent agenda, so that would be one through five, that members of council would like to remove? Seeing none, are there any items from the public that they wish to see removed? Seeing none, Mr. City Attorney, if you'll read the consent agenda, please.

Item one is the payment of bills. Item two is adoption of the minutes or approval of the minutes for June 18 and June 22 meetings. Item three is a resolution 8882-26 is concerning a change order for the National Computer Forensics Institute project. Resolution number 8883-26 is a similar resolution that is a change order for the same project. Number five is resolution 8884-26 and it amends and updates the city of Hoover purchasing policy and procedural management.

Mr. President, motion to approve the consent agenda. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Moving on to our regular agenda, and this will be a public hearing, resolution number 888126, Mr. Walter.

This is a resolution that approves and is sending to a declaration of a vacation of an easement located on the property at 1798 Glascott Trail in the city.

Mr. President, motion to approve resolution number 88126. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Any comments or questions from council on this item? Hearing none, any comments or questions from the public? Yes, ma'am. Come down to the podium and state your name. It's in the section of Ross Bridge, ma'am. Glasgow Trail is where she asked for. Any other questions from the public? Seeing none, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed? The ayes have it. Uh, moving on to resolution eight, eight, six, three, two, six.

This is item seven. This is a resolution that grants conditional use approval to allow expansion of the, uh, existing church building on property located at six Green Hill Parkway.

Mr. President motion to approve resolution number eight, eight, six, three dash two, six.

Second. I have a motion and a second. This is a public hearing as well. Um, Any comments or questions from the council? Any comments or questions from the public? Come down to the podium, sir, and state your name and general vicinity of where you live, please.

Mr. President, there are a lot of new faces here tonight. It might be that you want to explain Thursday's process to those that might not have been here on Thursday or what our policy is.

Well, as stated, I guess Thursday we have our work session. We go over each item in detail, have a lot of discussion on those items. So don't think on Monday night we just show up and pass these things without having any kind of due diligence done on them. That primarily happens during the work session. But Monday night is the time for us to hear from the public as well on these items. So, sir, if you will state your name and... where you live at in Hoover.

Absolutely. My name is Scott Montgomery. I live in Hoover by Spain Park, and I'm the pastor of A2 Church. Okay, you've got four minutes there. Yeah, we're really excited about this expansion. We've been on this property for over a decade, and the Lord has really blessed us with a lot of young families, which is so fun to be a part of. So this expansion is taking an existing part of our property that's a courtyard, closing it in, making it a space for our kids and youth, and we're just honored to be considered and excited to get rolling. So hopefully we can make it happen.

Thank you so much. Absolutely. Thank you all. Glad to hear that, though. Word is spreading.

Yeah, and if y'all don't know where we are, we're behind the old Superior Grill RIP on 280. And that's where we are.

All right. Any other comments or questions from the public?

They may have needed you back then. I know.

Yeah, I know. We will now close the public hearing on this, and all in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed, the ayes have it. Good luck on your expansion. Moving on to Resolution 886426, Mr. Waldrop.

This is number nine on the agenda. It's a resolution.

Number eight, sir.

I'm sorry. This is a resolution. It's number eight on the agenda. It's a resolution that grants conditional use approval to operate a company called Opalux, and that's a paramedical tattoo practice within spaces located at 1713 Montgomery Highway, Suite 109.

Mr. President, motion to approve resolution number 8864-26. Second.

I have a motion and a second. This is also a public hearing. Any comments or questions from the council on this item? Hearing none, any comments or questions from the public on this item? Hearing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed, the ayes have it. Moving on to resolution 886126.

Mr. Rodgers. This is item nine. It's a resolution declaring that a nuisance and unsafe conditions exist on property located at 5823 Ryan Village Drive, and it requires immediate abatement.

Very good. This is a public hearing as well. We will open the floor to Mr. Martin for a brief presentation.

I think the actual resolution says that.

I should say a presentation. I don't know how .

Good afternoon. I do see that we have some guests here this evening for this particular item. I'll just ask the Mayor's dais over if you want them to go first or would you like for us to present at this time?

Is a principal here for the company? Yes, sir. Sir, if you want to come down and state your name and how you're associated with the business.

Good evening, everybody. My name is Jacob Hale. I'm the representative of 2135 Centennial Owner LLC, a Delaware LLC registered business in Alabama. The address of the property is 2135 Centennial Drive, Hoover, Alabama, just for the record because the ordinance happens to mention a different address.

Very well. Mr. Hale, thank you for coming tonight. Excuse me for reading off this, but I want to make sure I get it right. So tonight our focus is simple, ensuring that every resident in Hoover has a safe, clean, and livable place to call home. The standards of our city code are not arbitrary targets. They are the absolute bare minimum required for human dignity and public safety. We are here to have a constructive, solution-oriented dialogue. To you, sir, I say in attendance, we respect your presence and willingness to come before this body. Our goal is not to attack, but to establish a clear and binding path forward. However, the current conditions at this property, ranging from basic utility failures to severe mold, are simply indefensible and cannot continue. We are prepared to discuss next steps, including a potential memorandum of understanding if that's what this body decides upon. But any agreement is entirely contingent upon immediate remediation and a verified long-term plan for structural compliance. So I'm going to hand the floor over to you if you.

Yes, sir, I appreciate the feedback and it's very constructive. And I wanna highlight that I'm here today in appreciation of the city and wanting to work cooperatively moving forward. I've spent personally last two weeks here in Hoover meeting with various city officials and other stakeholders. In the anticipation of the meeting today, I also brought two representatives from Remkus, which is a national engineering firm licensed in Alabama, located here in Birmingham as well as other cities. They have already submitted an abbreviated report last week, which I believe was made available to you guys through the city manager. We have also committed in that meeting to submitting an extended structural report, which was due July 15th. We have already delivered that report ahead of schedule. We have hard copies of those reports. It's 1,300 pages, which provides a thorough analysis building by building, including drone footage. visual inspections as well as other analyses based on national engineering standards and we can make those available and I would invite Chris if you would allow, Chris Molder, he's the head engineer, he would like to provide a comprehensive update of what's been done to date and what the plan is moving forward that was pre-agreed with the city council as well as other members of the city staff. Thank you, sir.

Good evening. I've been accused of never needing a microphone, so I'll try to tone it down just a little bit. In the interest of fairness, I am an engineer. And even though you ask me what time it is, I'll do my best not to tell you how to build a clock. So let's be frank about it. My name is Chris Mulder. I'm a licensed engineer in Alabama and 15 other states. I've been doing this quite a while. I got these gray hairs, honestly. I do have something similar to your accent. I'm from Tennessee originally. So I love Alabama, we're neighbors, good to see you. Remkus is a nationwide, actually a multinational firm that handles all aspects of building service lives from beginning to progression to any aspect of its needs to perform well. We were retained in direct response to the issues of the property and the notices and the dialogue that's been ongoing with the city. And as was mentioned, we produced a summary report last week And then last night we produced the full report for the exterior and the structural on the buildings. That report is available for the city personnel, obviously, and we have copies of it here. It is an engineering report. This is my little joke here. It'll cure insomnia because it's an engineering report, but it's full of good information that is clear information about what the needs are for the property. My associate behind me here is my very dear friend and colleague, Mickey Parker. And this week we start the next phase of our investigation, which is the interior of the units and cataloging all the issues that are going on, taking full dimensions to create sets of plans for each one for permitting purposes, as well as a scope of repairs that are needed to address all the issues present within these units. One thing that has become clear as we're going through our observation is that we did not find any justification for demolition of the buildings or any building-wide structural issues. There are, of course, issues with some of the interiors of the units. And these issues vary from a high level of repairs that are needed to almost no repairs. It is a mixed bag at the property. But one thing that is clear is that these units can be addressed and corrected on a unit by unit basis without full demolition or full shutting down occupancy of all buildings. This can be done easily using standard of care practices for containment of units to prevent any influx of any adverse conditions in the other unit and following standard protocols for mitigation and repairs on those units accordingly. This works. We're doing it across the country day in and day out. Currently, we're working on the second largest assisted living care facility that is fully occupied in Texas doing this very thing. And it remains occupied and all residents are completely safe. I'm mindful of the time here, and I thank the council and all of you very, very much for allowing me to come down. I love coming to Alabama. You're a little bit cooler than it is in Dallas right now, so thank you for that. Apologies, last night and this morning I brought the rain with me. I hope you needed it. With respect to the next steps, As I said, we have a team that is on site. Mr. Parker is leading that team this week, gathering all the data for the interiors of these units. And there will be a report forthcoming along with permitted plans and everything that is needed to correct the issues at the property on a unit by unit basis. We will serve as the engineer and or architect of records as needed for any repairs that need to be done. And those repairs will be done in obviously complete coordination with the city. Today, I reached out to Dave Prosch, and to Mac Martin to see if we can have a meeting very quickly this week to make sure we are in total alignment with what the city requires for permitting for plans and specifications because that is what we will produce.

Can you verify that each livable unit currently has running potable water?

That would be a question for the owners of the property. I'm here from the assessment of the property from a structural and building envelope aspect. Excuse me. Yes.

Yes, sir, we can verify that. And just for the record, anytime the water is off, it's not because of negligence, it's actually because of repairs, because the only way to repair the plumbing is to shut off the main valve for a period of time. And so while we sincerely apologize that such circumstances may occur, they actually are a testament or commitment to fixing the property when an issue comes up. There is also a section written up in the engineering report regarding Central Alabama water and the code pressures, things of that nature. The preventative maintenance that has been done at the property, including 15 shutoff valves that basically slow down the pressure and prevent these issues from happening. And we've instructed REMCUS to do more studies to prevent hopefully these things from occurring in the future. And it's one of the items that was listed in the report recently provided to you guys as a next actionable item.

At this time, I'm going to open up questions for my colleagues on the council.

Mr. President, could you go back to the microphone, please? Last week we read of a resident that was without water for three days. That's not a period of time. That's three days. Okay. How can we ensure that you're not going to keep them for that period of time? What do you consider to be acceptable to be without water?

Sir, I don't consider it acceptable to be without water at all, period. Unfortunately, there are circumstances sometimes where repairs have to be done. As far as the incident on Friday, I can tell you that there was a main pipe issue that I presently attended to on Friday at noon. The issue was fixed by 2 p.m., and that's all I know about any water issues of the property. I'm not aware of any other issues. You know, three days seems like an awful lot of time, and I will immediately instruct the team to investigate that, and if that's the case, we will make sure that we address the tenant and proceed accordingly.

Okay, and I have a question for the engineers. Sir, you have some binders there that... From what you wrote, that shows extensive work. There's a lot of work that needs to be done there. Is that correct?

That's extensive work putting together those binders. With respect to the work at the site, it is dependent upon the unit in question.

OK. And what are we going to do with the tenants that are in there right now when that work is being done? Are they going to be accommodated into livable places during that time?

Yes, sir, they already have. I would invite you if you would like to meet me on site as early as tonight or tomorrow. I would also invite any members of the city council. I extended that invitation through city manager and I would love to meet with you guys, show you the property, walk it. I think that would inform our conversation. But yes, we are utterly committed to ensuring that no tenant lives or is located on safe premises, of course.

And finally, Mr. Engineer, when were you retained? I was retained on the 29th of June. So two weeks ago? Two weeks ago. Thank you.

Mr. Iver?

Well, you got my first question, Councillor Schultz. Second question, how long, this is for the principal, how long has your entity owned this property?

We've owned a building in partnership with other entities for about five years. We managed the property for the first two years of that term, where we actually significantly improved the performance, the occupancy, and the overall tenant experience. And then our partner switched management to their affiliated entity, which candidly caused some issues. And we just recently took the management back and are making the appropriate adjustments to ensure that You guys are not fielding complaints and residents are happy living at the property.

Do you know what a fire watch is?

Yes, ma'am. We've consulted thoroughly with the fire department of the city of Hoover. There's a fire protocol in place that's detailed in both of the reports that were provided to the city. And in fact, both of the reports have detailed fire protocols on a daily watch attached to them. And those protocols are being followed at the property.

And does a fire watch require that residents or other private individuals literally go around and look for signs of fire?

Yes, ma'am. So there are visual inspections, and there's also an engineering inspection that determines the level of improvements need and what type of fire risk those would trigger. And the report covers that, and Chris can speak to it, but basically there is a high degree of safety currently on site when it comes to fire.

Why are the fire watches necessary?

Just to accommodate the city of Hoover and ensure that we're going above and beyond in terms of what's required of us and ensuring that the tenants can live in safe conditions.

Is it because the fire safety systems are not working properly?

No, ma'am. The report speaks to the contrary, actually. So I would encourage you to read the 1300 page report.

How long have the fire watches been in place?

Ever since we've been asked by the city to put one in place.

Could we possibly hear from our fire department tonight on why that request was made?

Chief, do you mind coming down and speaking on the fire watch protocol?

Yes, ma'am. Your question?

The question is why are the fire watches necessary at the site?

The fire watches are necessary because of the building conditions so that the tenants are kept safe due to the fact of the living conditions, the building conditions.

Can you elaborate?

So for instance, if there's sheetrock or different types of fire barrier material that are in certain parts of the building that are not in place, we have someone on fire watch there to make sure that they can see the fire or hopefully detect the fire before it gets out of control. They have met the fire watch requirements thus far.

Thank you. Mr. Driver, are you done? Do you yield?

For now, I do.

Mr. Murphy.

So, Chief, just a couple questions. I'll just ask you this piece. So that's just for the condition of the building, the fire watch, if I'm not correct as well, too, when water is out of service and there's no fire protection in said buildings or any of the risers are not functioning due to outages, a fire watch has to be put in place?

These buildings are non-protected, not sprinkled, which means they do not have a sprinkler system in these buildings. There may be one or two buildings that were retrofitted years ago after a fire occurred. But the fire protection water on the fire hydrants that are on the location are all in operating order. There are 13 fire hydrants on the property that we're discussing. Three of those hydrants are out of service. That's not completely uncommon. Fire hydrants do go out of service. But these buildings are not protected by a sprinkler system.

The fire protection on property, is that private or public?

It's private.

Okay. So... the water lines on the property, including the fire hydrants, if they're not adequately running, does that also implement fire mileage?

It could, depending on the number of fire hydrants that are out of service, but anything that's behind the meter on any property, fire hydrants, water mains, whatever, those are considered to be private.

Private property. So I guess the question I'm getting at is this right here. So is that domestic line tied to the irrigation and fire protection? Is it one line feed in the entire complex?

It would be one major water main that supplies domestic fire protection water, residential sprinkler water, or lawn sprinkler water.

All right, so everything. So any event it goes out, it can be problematic to... does the fire department utilize those fire hydrants to fight fire? We do. If they're functioning? We do. Okay, so I appreciate you. That's all I have for you. So I'll ask this question. So you stated that it was a, is that a basis of design or just a inspection report?

It's an inspection report.

So we haven't got to the basis of design. We haven't got to the schematic design, the detail designing of that.

That is what is occurring this week with site observations and data collection.

So if that's the case, what is your schedule for the basis of design all the way to the detail design to be submitted and stamped and ready for a contractor? What are we talking about on that?

Maybe I think that it's a great question and it has two answers. One is what was discussed between us and the city in terms of an outline. And the other thing is the dates that we're actually looking to hit. So the goal was to have this report that's in front of you by July 15th. We delivered it yesterday, three days ahead of schedule. And then the second report that you're asking, the idea is to have that before the end of the month. But we're hoping, in good faith effort, to deliver it for your July 23rd executive meeting so you could at least review the preliminary conclusions of the drawings and the initial design of the repairs.

So we're saying that the detailed design will be ready in a month?

For the time by the, by the end of the month. Yes, sir.

So again, the details on will be ready for, I'm not, I'm not sure what you mean by detailed design engineer right there. If he can help me out on that.

So one of the things that we do need to do is we need to coordinate with the city to the, with Mac and with, um, David, I mentioned earlier, you'd be very clear on what the parameters are for the permitting documents and coordinating that with our scope of work. We're going to be putting together with the plans of repair that way. That's a, it's an easier transition to get it through for permitting. Um, To that end, I requested to have a meeting with them. Once I had those parameters, we'll have our marching orders to be able to start chugging through on these. Now the intention is to put permitting plans together per unit with the scope of work that has to do with that unit and ties it in with whatever needs to happen with the building tied in with that unit. As far as delivery on that, it will be dependent on what my meeting is with the city, but I don't know why we couldn't have all plans issued for all units August at the latest.

So in August, and then, so that's your design parameters. You want to make sure originally I'm asking these questions because that's going to dictate, uh, the conditions of residents until then. Right. So that's a, uh, also a part of your inspection report that includes your infrastructure condition assessment, or is that the water not a part of that?

My infrastructure you're talking about for the water main system and utilities.

Well, from the private side meter hallway to the property.

That would be a coming attraction. That's not part of it. This is the above-ground buildings themselves with the structures.

So we still haven't, just to be real clear, the amount of main points that helps with fire protection for... hundreds of individuals at a facility, anything gets on fire or not, we haven't done an assessment on that. So we can fix the building, but if it's an age infrastructure that continues to break and no one has done a conditional assessment, we're back in the same situation. So I would ask that that is, in my opinion, more critical. or equally critical as what you're doing as well too. So if no inspection report, condition assessment is done on the infrastructure, that's a challenge for me. And I'll land on this and I'll be quiet. So the end of August, and then there's a construction schedule as well too. Do we understand what the construction remediation schedule looks like?

We have initially indicated 18 to 24 months for full remediation, but we would be looking to deliver sooner on that consistent with the first report as an example that we delivered ahead of schedule.

So we're looking roughly with design and construction two years. If we add an infrastructure of water, that may be even longer because that's an underground asset versus vertical assets. So, uh, I'll land on that. Do you have some concern about not having that infrastructure report from that standpoint?

I would say I completely agree with you. You have to look holistically for the site. You can't isolate to the buildings. Right now, we're in the initial stages assessing this portion of it. The infrastructure would be forthcoming, I'm sure. With respect to that...

Yeah.

I would expect that construction could be handled in phases. As you're working in some portion of the infrastructure as needed, you can be working on other portions of the building so they don't overlap each other. And the least amount of impact to the residents, but still being progressive to keep it safe and make the necessary repairs.

And I respect that. But keep in mind, I know we understand that both for the public and public pieces of it. Absolutely. When we're constructing work for a year period of time, there's a great possibility that Anything can happen in the units when you're dealing with soils and heat and dry temperature and lack of fire protection or water or infrastructure related issues in good faith can burn up a unit.

Absolutely.

If you're working on one and it's people above. If there's no irrigation.

That's why there has to be control measures to your very point. There has to be control measures in place. We're talking about contractors that are a high level of care to be able to address these kinds of things.

Thank you.

Ms. Lovell?

When was this property first acquired by your company?

Five years ago.

So my question is what was your original plan for the property and what has caught you so off guard that five years later you're coming with these plans?

Well, we invested a tremendous amount of dollars into the property, and the first two years after our acquisition, the property did amazingly well. I think, as I explained earlier, we had a financial partner who then demanded a change of property management, which led to deterioration of the property, and so we're basically doing a redo. But we already have a track record of having improved the property and done great with it, so we anticipate we'll be able to do the same again.

Define done great with it for me, please, so I can have a frame of reference.

I think when we acquired the property, we took a property that has had a legacy of issues and improved a variety of operational elements, focused on improving security, did things that I believe widely contributed to the improvement of the property and I think it was reflected in the demand for the housing there. And then unfortunately since our property management affiliate couldn't manage it anymore and it switched to a third party company that we had no control of, that's where some of the issues arose and we're committed to fixing them again.

A couple more questions. How would you describe, because I had the privilege of driving around the property yesterday, and how would you describe the condition of your apartment complex?

I think it's a... It's an apartment complex built in 1988, which is in fair condition relative to its age. I would love to meet you there tomorrow or the day after tomorrow or drive with you. And if you have any particular concerns or any questions regarding anything specific, I would genuinely love to go through all the observations. I would like to extend that offer to everybody here. We are here in the long term. I shared that with the mayor. We have some other plans in Hoover and our initial experience has been great and so I would love to get your input and talk about specific issues.

And then one last question. You've said you've been here for a couple weeks now in Hoover. Is that correct?

Well, I was here all last week, and I have three kids, one, three, and five. So I went home for the weekend, and I was here last night again without any confirmed meetings, without anything, just to show my commitment and my willingness to work with the city. We'll continue on the same path. We want to resolve this issue. We don't want to have an unfortunate situation or a misunderstanding. And we've dedicated a tremendous amount of resources to resolve the situation. And by the way, your input in terms of the reports, the infrastructure, we will, I'll ensure that we incorporate that into the work that RIMCIS is doing. And I think it's a very valuable input and we appreciate it.

And one last question, I think this is probably the question that might be on everybody's mind this evening is the fact that you own an apartment complex with plenty of rooms and places to stay. Did you choose to stay at your complex?

Ma'am, it's a great question. As a matter of policy, I never stay at my apartment buildings regardless of the grade of the building. And we actually have a policy that we do not like when employees live at those complexes because it's a conflict of interest. We like for folks to enjoy their neighborhood. And so I appreciate your question. I really do. I'm not trying to avoid answering it, but for that reason, I wouldn't.

Understood. Mr. President, are you a minority owner in this complex?

We were initially, yes sir, and then now in an effort to resolve the issues, we've basically came to rescue and increased our ownership position to continue improving the issues that we've observed at hand. about 10 months ago, 11, 12 months ago, something like that.

Do you have any plans of going against your previous business partner for putting these financial stresses on your company and this complex for allowing it to get in the condition that we all see now?

I think I'm generally solution-oriented. It's a great question, but really, and that is a genuine answer. in standing in front of you today. All we care about is creating a roadmap with the city and with the city officials and fixing this issue. And we hope we've made a tremendous amount of progress over the last two weeks, and that's all we care about. We just want to fix it. It doesn't matter who did what. We're looking forward. I am actually grateful. I feel that the reports that were recently submitted and the frameworks that are in place are allowing us to get on the same page between city staff and our professionals. And I think we'll see a tremendous amount of progress in the coming weeks.

How much money have you spent in improving the complex since you've owned it?

It's a large sum of money, it's over $10 million that's in the report, but just mind you, some of these are repairs and maintenance, some of these are operating improvements, some of these are CapEx-related investments that would be requiring a permit for rebuild, so it's a variety of items that goes into that sum, but it's outlined in the engineering report that was provided to you.

Did you obtain permits for all of this?

We strictly obtain permits for the work that requires permits. There is a framework for permitting that was provided by Remkus, including a whole code study. And part of their scope moving forward is to make very specific recommendations as to what needs permit and what doesn't. And as Chris indicated, I've instructed him to reach out to Mack Martin and make sure that prior to any work being done that those efforts are coordinated.

Wherever you went. Oh, there you are. I saw a memo earlier after the work session that indicated that maybe the dollar value of the permits was nowhere near $10 million. Is that true? It's more like what? $300,000?

The permitted work was $400,000, but as I indicated, sir, there are repairs, maintenance, things that do not require permit that are an ongoing maintenance, which you have to remember we're talking about a complex that's 920 units, 74 acres. It's basically the size of five to seven otherwise similarly situated apartment complexes. So everything moves at a much bigger pace, and the numbers are simply bigger as a result of the scale of the complex.

Moves at a bigger pace or a slower pace?

Well certainly moving forward I hope that it's gonna move at a faster pace and I would hope that today's hearing and our interactions are a first building stone of trust and credibility and I attempted to demonstrate the commitment to resolving the situation by spending all the time speaking in front of you all and I'm very appreciative of the input and the opportunity and we're committed to resolving the situation as quickly as possible.

We truly appreciate your taking time to spend with us. How do the problems in this complex compare to the problems with the complex you owned in Homewood?

I apologize, sir, but we don't own anything in Homewood other than a good friend of mine, Mr. Kessler, who owns the Grand Bohemian, but he's a friend. He's not a partner of mine.

But I was also told that they had owned a property off of Valley Avenue or off of West Valley.

We own just for, it's a great question actually, sir. I appreciate you asking. We own a sister property right next to Park at Hoover in unincorporated Jefferson County. We've experienced some similar post-COVID symptoms of longer evictions and things of that nature that were occurring in Jefferson County. The property is currently 97% occupied, it's in great shape. And fortunately, we didn't have a misunderstanding regarding fixing the property like we're having here, but we believe that this was a genuine misunderstanding. As I told the mayor earlier today, we take responsibility for maybe too much time passing in terms of providing the framework. We did that now, and we're committed to a resolution, and by the way, if you would like to visit our other property, I would also welcome you for a visit. I would love to spend time with you guys outside of this chambers anyway. I extended that offer to the city manager, so that offer stands whether it's at a property or at City Hall.

I guess that other property is around Village East?

Yes, sir. Okay. It's currently called Schuyler Ridge.

There used to be Rhyme Villages, the old days, back when I worked in the fire department. How is it that they're maintained in such great shape, but the rest of your property isn't?

I would love to keep this meeting cooperative. I genuinely would. It's a very loaded question that you just asked me, and I'm happy to answer it privately, but I'm here to focus on the future and just stick to the framework and then basically ensure that we can accomplish the same results that we have there at the Hoover property.

I understand. Once again, I appreciate you being here. but it was the council drawing the line in the sand that got you here. And we all need to remember that. Thank you, Mr. President.

Mr. President. Mr. Clinton. The next time that y'all come back here, we would love to have the owners be up here, not the engineers and the attorney. So can y'all make that happen?

Well, I'm the principal of the company, sir.

So... Let me ask you this. I remember 30 years ago, Ryanville was a great place. And to me, with the new administration we have, the new council, we're cleaning up a lot of messes from previous things that were just either neglected. And I feel like your apartment complex has just been neglected. And the citizens depend on us to represent them. And I appreciate you being here, but I'll be honest, the past five years, I haven't seen much of anything. It's going to take a lot to prove to this council and the city that you're already serious.

I appreciate that feedback, sir, and I think the first step is rather than making it anecdotal, I think it's really having a plan prepared by a licensed Alabama engineer, aka in this case also it happens to be a national engineering firm with 1,500 employees and experience in doing that. I think we are hyper-focused in providing those types of documents to you guys moving forward. I think we want to set a sense of credibility and trust. We attempted to do that with the city manager, with the mayor, as well as with all other people. And I extended, by the way, just... I was here all last week and I'm here all this week regardless of this hearing. So it is not the council drawing a line in the sand that got me here. I offered on multiple times to meet with every single individual council member through the city manager, but I understood that you guys wanted me to attend the public hearing. And so I just want to make that very clear. I want to hear from you guys. I would love to meet with you all one-on-one. If there's any input from you guys, I'm available. And that's the type of attitude that we have going into this process.

I think it was important for council for you to be here tonight to answer questions for the public to hear that we didn't meet in private behind closed doors. Because this kind of business is best done in a public forum because you're also representing our residents. So our residents need to hear from you as well. And I believe that's why we chose not to meet with you until tonight.

Yes, sir, and that's why I was here as early as yesterday. There was never a thought of me not being available this week for this hearing or last week. I think all I'm trying to say is to the extent there is an opportunity for an ongoing dialogue and additional input from you guys or meeting at the property and having you see the property with your own eyes or like Derek, for example, gave us great input on infrastructure. We'll incorporate it into the report if other folks have other input. We will make sure that in our memorandum of understanding those details are incorporated and we commit to those.

For the public to be aware of what options we have tonight, Mr. Waldrop, I'm going to ask your opinion on some items. We either move forward with the declaration of nuisance, which then moves on to court, and we come to a solution there or we have an option of continuing this allowing our lawyers between both sides to come up with a memorandum of understanding which would have very strict guidelines uh... and that comes back before us in two weeks time to consider that memorandum of understanding for my part and i believe for most of my colleagues in that memorandum of understanding there's some basic must that's gonna have to be in there. As Councilor Murphy said, assessment of the water infrastructure. I think the city needs a project manager for a project of this scope that we choose and your company reimburses us for.

Yes, sir, we've agreed in good faith and our conversation's already through that.

All tenants that are determined by the city that live in an unlivable condition are relocated.

I'm not aware of any tenants being in unlivable conditions and in the anticipation of the phase two report I'm being told that every single unit at the property was walked but I'll ensure that we double check on that requirement.

Timelines are developed for the scope of work and strictly adhere to any failure to meet those timelines, we come right back to this public nuisance.

I wouldn't expect anything else. That's why we delivered our report three days ahead of schedule in the first go around.

And all work is permitted work. Mr. Waldrop, did I...

I think that... is a good representation of what we talked about. We talked about also having a, in the MOU, the Memorandum of Understanding, it's not a binding document, but it gives us the framework for a legally binding document. And what we had discussed was a beginning date and an ending date for the project. And then within the framework of when you begin and when you end, taking a building by building approach and have interstitial timelines saying this work will be completed in this building on this day, so internally, so that we're kept on that. And you covered the, if the city engineer doesn't have adequate resources, then, We discussed having you engage, having the city engage someone who's, for lack of a better term, I said they're like a project manager that would be the city's agent for that process. We also talked about having the monies necessary for the permitting to be placed in an escrow account. The offer was that they would go ahead and put it in an account with the city. Our thinking is that the city's finance department has many accounts already and this could be one less if we could just have it at their law firm. Their law firm's agreed to accept the monies and that the drawdown would happen the same day that they have somebody permitted. We'd also be given a list, whoever the general contractor would be would be licensed with an unlimited authority. and that whoever the subs are that are working, a list of those would be provided, and everybody would have business licenses, as well as if they need to be certified by a permitting board. Brian, did I leave anything out?

No, sir. I think you covered most of it, and we have had a chance to discuss much of this with the owner of the property previously. I think it's... A defensible framework provided that we continue to hit deadlines to the council's satisfaction and continue looking forward and advancing towards a better future for this property.

Mr. Iver, did you have something else to add?

I did have one follow-up question for the owner. How long have you been on notice that the city considers many of these buildings and units to be uninhabitable?

yes ma'am so the first time we were noticed in terms of a violation was last year we had a meeting and we proposed a remediation framework that i think there was a misunderstanding between what the city staff was expecting versus what we were proposing and that created a roadblock but i genuinely believe that the engineering report that was recently provided unclog that roadblock as of this morning, the feedback that we were receiving from the city was consistent with the report and with how we would expect to remediate the issues and so I think that's a big win from over the last two or three weeks. I've encouraged Chris to coordinate with Mac on top of that and with Dave Brosh and we wanna ensure that none of these roadblocks exist moving forward and as long as we have a framework I think REMCAS can facilitate a very quick resolution to this issue.

And Mr. President, I was going to ask if we could possibly hear from Mr. Martin before we make a decision about what direction to go here.

Mr. Shultz?

I have one additional question for the owner. I want to kind of piggyback on Ms. Lovell's question, which you evaded very nicely. So let me rephrase the question. The question was, would you live there? And your response was, we have a policy not to live there. So let's pretend that you don't work there. And let's pretend that you're married and you have a child, three children, one, three, and five. Would you put those children in that apartment complex?

Yes, sir. In fact, I did that. I'm a self-made man. And when I started my career, I lived in a rental complex just like this one. That was a workforce housing. And similarly situated. And I believe that part of the American dream is the ability to live in affordable housing, workforce housing, as well as other forms of housing. And it is our commitment to you guys to ensure that all your concerns are addressed and people have flexibility in choosing in terms of what type of housing they would like to reside in.

The flexibility I'm looking for is these are human beings that need to be in dwellings that are acceptable. And that's what we're- Yes, sir.

We are committed to doing that. I think the intent of today's hearing as well as last several weeks and all the reports is to accomplish the same. And as I offered now multiple times, I'll personally ensure that you guys have my contact information including my cell phone. I'm committing to you that anytime you're feeling a complaint or you have a concern in terms of livability or any of these issues, I will personally be addressing them through the team and through the property. I just want to set expectations. It's a large property. I don't personally run it, but I understand that the buck stops with me, and I appreciate the time that you guys have given me today to listen to some of my answers, and I'm committed to working with you.

At this time, Mr. Martin, if you could give just an abbreviated assessment of the property. After your assessment, I'm going to open the floor to our public to make comments. If we have a motion and a second to continue the item for two weeks for us to work on a memorandum of understanding, we'll then vote on that. If that fails, I may ask you to come back and give an in-depth analysis.

Okay, just a very short analysis. City staff responded to complaints that started coming in in 2024 about the living conditions on the site. Over time, we... noticed the owner and their management team about these violations, various and sundry code enforcement items. We had some response on the exterior items, potholes, trash, and the like in 2024, but not really any movement that we could tell on the structures, the buildings themselves. And then we get to early 2025, early March and we receive a report with pictures concerning the interiors of some of the units on the site. We had a small team that went out on March 6th of 2025 and inspected the three buildings that were involved in that complaint. And the issues there were so systemic so deplorable that the staff that looked at those premises and that narrow lens of three buildings stated that it would be wise for us to take a more comprehensive look at the campus because the conditions were unspeakable and unsafe in those three buildings. And so about halfway into the month of March, 2025, We gave notice to the owners and their management group and their legal team at the time that we were going to conduct a life safety inspection that was as comprehensive in nature as it could be across the entire campus, accessing units that were not secured or accessing units where tenants invited us in. and what we found were that those issues were indeed systemic across the entire campus. I did have a chance to review the preliminary report from the structural engineer. I'm not sure exactly what they were looking at because there were quite a number of instances across the campus where there were life safety issues and concerns, lack of fire separation, in and amongst units, the amount of mold growth and deterioration from water encroachment into the facilities. So it appears to me that that report may not have taken into account our report and what we reported seeing on the campus, not only in our comprehensive inspection of the property in March of 2025, but also in our follow-up inspection across the campus April 22nd of this year. We feel like we gave ample time for the ownership to address these issues and to come to us with a plan. I just think if we are going to have a dialogue that works for both parties and does focus on solutions, we need to have an accurate depiction of our base, where we are today. And our inspection from April of 2026, April of this year, we didn't have any indication compiling what we saw and comparing that to what permits were on file to believe that there were any changes in buildings and whether or not they were safe for occupancy. So I'll leave it at that at this point and be glad to go into further detail if needed.

This time I'm gonna open up questions and comments from the public. Anyone? And if you'll come down to the podium and state your name and ask your question, please.

Hi, my name is Paula Polinsky, my husband's Paul, and we live in Bluff Park. I think I'm gonna cry, because when I think of the people in these apartments, it makes me sick. It really does. And there's many people that probably may not like what I'm about to say, but oftentimes when I read various posts in Hoover, people don't like people that are apartment people. Well, my husband and I grew up in Chicago, and we were apartment people. And people have a right to live in Hoover. They like Hoover. They want to send their kids to good schools. My daughter lives off of 280 and 119, and she's been there 12 years. She works hard. She works for UAB. and she takes excellent care of her apartment. And we saw recently that they re-roofed the apartments. It's called the Outlook. And even during the course of the re-roofing, you can't imagine the debris that was all over the place. She has a dog. Almost everybody in an apartment there has a dog, and they like to walk. And I was shocked by how dangerous it was even walking around, even the dumpsters that were put right up next to her vehicle. And this is a good apartment. I've seen posts from these people on Facebook about the garbage wasn't picked up forever. It piled up. I don't know why. Hoover hasn't stepped in sooner. I'm glad to see that this board and mayor are working with this group to get something done. But as citizens, we should all remember these are people that live here. It doesn't matter what color you are, what race you are. When you see something like this happen, stand up for these people. They deserve it. They're just as good as anybody else that sits in this audience tonight. We should love these people and reach out and say, we're here for you. We'll try and help you, or whatever we can do to talk to people. But when I hear bad comments about people saying they're apartment people, I work for Simmons Middle School. I work for Vestavia West Elementary School. And I often would hear people say, well, you know they're apartment people. What's wrong with apartment people? You don't like their race? You don't like their background? They got to live somewhere. They have to have a life too. Just love them and take care of them. And when you see situations like this, speak up. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Polinsky. Ms. Polinsky, if I may, you said it very well, but I want to reiterate that, and I have made a statement myself about not wanting new apartment complexes because I think Hoover has said a nice diverse array of multi-family homes to choose from. It's never about the people who live in them. We support anybody coming to live to Hoover who wants to better their future and their circumstances. That is the American dream. We have excellent schools, we have excellent public safety, and we have affordable housing here in Hoover. So of course we welcome all that want to come and better their circumstances. It's not about the people who live in the apartments, it's not about the apartments, but it's about the conditions and ownership of those apartments that fall in disarray, that fall into these unlivable conditions. They all start out nice. I think many of us, if not all of us, started out in apartments. I lived right next door to this when I first moved to Hoover in 95, Wood Gardens. You know it was it was a nice place at the time, but over time they fall into disrepair by unreportable Ownership, and I'm not saying You're an unreportable owner That's yet to be seen But that's just the circumstances That we see so it's never about the people living there. It's about the conditions that they're they're living in and With that said, if I have a motion for continuance, I'll open the floor for a motion for us to work on a memorandum of understanding so we can get this place fixed up. Yes, sir.

I think you need to close the public hearing if you're going to take up a motion.

Okay, I'll close the public hearing for now. If I have a motion and a second, we'll consider that. With no motion and second, we'll continue to hear from you. from Mr. Martin and the public. So do I have a motion to continue this for two weeks for the city to work on a memorandum of understanding to get this place fixed up?

I'll say this, Mr. President. If the mayor office feel that they can work through this for two weeks to get another... appetite of the desire of this, uh, owner. And we come back with the same item on the agenda as a nuisance. I don't mind that piece of it. Um, but again, uh, I'm not close to it. Like, uh, operational people that live this each and every day. Um, so it's, for me, it's about what their thoughts and opinions are. Um, and you made some valid points of maybe two weeks, but again, whatever the body wants to ultimately go with, but I just wanted to just throw that out there.

At this time, do I have a motion? Hearing none, we will reopen the public hearing. Mr. Martin, if you can give an analysis of your findings.

All right, as mentioned before, our involvement in the properties really began in earnest in summer of 2024, where we responded to a number of complaints and concerns about the deteriorating state of the campus as a whole. In September, we did send those notice of violation to the owners and their asset manager. By October, we found that a number of the items outside of the building, potholes, conditions of the outer portion of the site, the garbage, though prior they had not been picked up for what appeared to be a number of months, that was rectified. But the buildings themselves, we did not see an appreciative amount of movement there. And so, as I mentioned before, we get to March 2025. We actually receive a complaint from a former employee for the management team that included pictures of the inside of several buildings on that campus that prompted a need for us to go and inspect those buildings. There were three total. And again, the report coming back from our code enforcement building department and fire marshal's office for those three buildings indicated that we needed to take a larger look at the entire campus to see if they met basic life safety requirements and standards. So March 18th, we conducted that comprehensive investigation to the extent that we could. There were a number of units on the site that were not secure. So we were able to gain entry to those. We also had with us for that particular inspection, representatives of the management team and the owner's legal representatives. they walked the campus with us as well. And over the course of that comprehensive inspection, we actually found that 51 buildings on the campus were found to have conditions warranting designation for unsafe for occupancy. And so designation prompted the immediate removal, relocation of the occupants of said building. So we finalized our report later in March, again, noting the 51 buildings that we found on site that we designated as unsafe for occupancy. The owner, with their legal team at the time, petitioned to appeal our designation of those 51 buildings, and a board of appeals meeting was set for April 17th, 2025. where the owner and their representatives argued that we were overzealous in our designation of those buildings. We presented the facts, many of which are in this report, to the Board of Appeals and the Board of Appeals upheld the city's designation with 51 buildings being unsafe. So April 21st, owners and city staff met. We laid out what we felt like was necessary. And I think it was categorized as a misunderstanding earlier. I didn't walk out of there feeling misunderstood, but that's the way it is. So owners laid out a plan for remediation for three buildings on the campus. a result of that meeting and so again we're going through April 2025 additional correspondence we get to later in April there were a couple of remediation water damage remediation permits that were applied for and issued for buildings forty three hundred fifty two hundred and fifty five hundred and Staff went on to those premises and found that there were a number of violations that we had not seen the first go around and noted those for management. In May, fire watch plan and protocol were revised and issued, finally approved May 16th by the fire marshal. Again, the reason we have the fire watch in place to begin with is because there are a number of buildings where fire separation has been compromised, and that is most definitely a life safety issue. A number of units abandoned, a number of units unoccupied, and missing fire safety rating walls. So a major concern of ours. A property owner didn't report having difficulty relocating some residents, and I think that's continued hearing from the owner up until the current day. Okay. Wrong button. Okay. So you guys have cited earlier in our proceedings multiple times where the water main breaks. It causes an outage across the entire complex. We've received complaints of that nature all the way up through last week where citizens are going days without water service because of the water being shut off, presumably for repairs to the water main. July of last year, we continued down the path of working with the property manager for mold and moisture remediation for the three buildings mentioned there. Rapid Response was the contractor for that mold remediation. However, as we get further into the calendar year 2025, what becomes apparent to the building department is the work that is going on is extending beyond mere mold and moisture remediation and getting into full on demolition. Work that goes well beyond the scope of the permits that were issued. And so it's also becoming apparent that there is a higher cumulative valuation of the work that is going on that exceeds $100,000, which according to Alabama state law, if you're going to have a cumulative valuation of the project in excess of $100,000, you need a licensed general contractor. And to this day, we have not had a licensed general contractor positioned on the property. So coming on into 2026, we've had further follow-up with the management team. Again, we're not seeing that comprehensive report. We're not seeing licensed engineers. We're not seeing architects. We're not seeing any of that. at this stage of the game, and we're getting a little long in the tooth since our previous inspection. So we had concerns that the orders upheld by the Board of Code Appeals were not being followed, and we were not seeing any movement on the front of getting the property properly positioned and reconstructed. So staff coordinated a follow-up inspection of the entire campus, notified the owners and the managers of the property that we were going on, and we conducted that inspection on April 21st of 2026. And what we found A good many more of the units on the site were secured than the previous time. So we did not have unsecured access to as many of the units and as many of the buildings as we did before. But there were a number of indicators that there was construction going on without permits and that we were not on the track that we laid out in our next steps back in 2025. So for the two inspections, we had a task force together of building department officials, fire department, planning and code enforcement, along with police department for both inspections in 2025 and 2026. And we did a building by building breakdown of what we found. I'll cycle through that quickly for both the March 2025 and 2026 inspections. in investigations. The results of the inspection, our findings from 2025, the majority of the buildings were unsafe for occupancy. Those that we noted on the map that were not deemed unsafe, We were not giving those clearance that they were safe for occupancy. It's just we did not have enough evidence to deem them unsafe. We didn't have enough access. We didn't see enough from what we did have access to deem them unsafe. So we recommended additional inspection prior to occupation for those as well. The 51 buildings we found to be in an unsafe condition. April 2026 inspection, we'd only had three permits for mold and moisture remediation between the 2025 inspection and the 2026 inspection. So we went building by building breakdown again. And we were able to confirm that most of the buildings remained in unsafe condition. There were a couple that were previously deemed unsafe, but we were not able to access to revise our report. So real quickly, code and violations stem across the gamut from smoke CO2 detectors not being installed properly or not having battery power to fire extinguishers being out of date or needing to be installed, period. had extensive mold and mildew and deteriorating conditions across the campus. Gas connections and gas venting were incorrect in a number of places. We saw exposed live electrical lines and electrical outlets and fixtures exposed to foreign contaminants like water. number of plumbing issues and again looking for licensed professionals to follow us up and give us a comprehensive plan for remediating the property so Going building by building, I'm only listing the ones that we deemed unsafe for occupancy. So building 300, standing water, mold was painted over, sheetrock removed, studs exposed. So you had... fire safety issues and we found much of the same in 2026 building 400 same had extensive mold extinguishers water damage and we still found that to be unsafe this past year so the units that we were able to get access to were in pretty rough shape This is from 2026 this year. So ceilings collapsed, walls molded over, and that's a theme that runs throughout the buildings that we looked at. Again, I'm not sure how the building as a whole can be deemed safe for occupancy when you have units in these conditions. with entire fire walls missing, ceilings collapsing and the like. But the issues, again, they just play out building after building. Improper venting, a lot of the water heaters and utilities were not installed with permits and inspections. And so our team noticed a number of instances where it looks like that leaks were likely. CO2, carbon monoxide was a concern. But again, a lot of situations that we saw playing out across the campus that were a concern and we were not able to consider these buildings safe for occupancy. Again, it was noticed by our team in a number of instances where there had been a considerable amount of demolition work done We had no permits to that end, no inspections to ensure that the buildings were being demolished in proper fashion, nor rebuilt. Extensive water standing on the site. And at this stage, it was hard for us to tell if that was coming from water service or water intrusion in the buildings. And a lot of mold and mildew, ceilings collapsed. a lot of standing water on the site, a lot of open pits on the campus where construction had commenced but came to a stop. Portions of the exterior of the structure falling off the building A lot of cases where it was clear that a significant amount of moisture was inside the buildings.

Mr. Martin, I think we got the gist. Are there any comments or questions from counsel for Mr. Martin?

Mr. President, Mr. Martin, when you made these inspections, Well, let me get to something else. There were apartments you did not have access to because they had tenants, correct?

That's correct.

And is that all the ones that had tenants or did you have access to any that had tenants?

We had access to a few that had tenants where we were invited in. And in most cases, they were fairly well maintained, but... in those same buildings, you had circumstances where other units were completely gutted or had the mold issue or the like. And again, this was one that stood out to us. Building 3000 in our inspection back in April, we found where the trusses in the attic had sustained fire damage and they were painted over, the fire damage was painted over. So I'm not sure if that was this particular unit or this particular building was captured in the structural report that was given, but I think there are a number of things that we saw in the preliminary report and in the larger comprehensive report from the structural engineer that I think we need to sit down, city staff and they, and rectify what they were seeing and what they have in their report with what we were seeing in our investigation.

What was the impotence for you not being able to get access to the other inhabited units?

Well, we had some instances where we were not invited in. We had instances where it was fairly clear that somebody was living in the premises. We had toys or other appliances, grills and things on the deck, but could not get an answer at the door when we arrived. We had some that had rain camera doorbells But I answered that, but said they were not at home.

Was the property manager of any assistance to help you gain access to these units?

Property manager declined to accompany us on the 2026 inspection this year. We did notify him and actually spoke to him in person face to face the day before and let him know that we were going to be on site and that he was more than welcome to join us and we could answer any questions that he had and he declined to walk the premises with us. I'm a little... It would be a little outside of my swim lane to make any proclamation on whether or not we could enter into a premises just with the property manager keying in.

Would the health department have any cleaner access than city staff?

My understanding is that these issues at the park have been reported to the health department. Now what their response has been, I'm not sure of that.

Okay. And final question from me. The inspectors that went with you and the other city staff, did you have security with you?

We did. We had several officers that accompanied with us. Why did you need that? Well, we had received several complaints concerning vagrants that were staying in some of the units without authorization. So just wanted to make sure that we had all of our bases covered from that standpoint. There was evidence, especially from our March 2025 inspection, that squatters were present in appreciable numbers. We found what appeared to be drug contraband and other things in those abandoned units.

Thank you, sir. Any further comments or questions from counsel?

I have one, Mr. Martin. Do you know if a lot of apartment complexes have courtesy officers? Do you know if that one has one?

We did encounter a courtesy officer on site. He was with city of Birmingham, police force, and he was living on the premises, although he was not apprised of the conditions in all of the buildings.

That's all. Thank you.

Were you aware that there are, it seems as if it's abandoned construction equipment like a backhoe and a crane that's standing fully upright and as well as trenches of running water that someone could fall into?

Yes, we noted that, particularly in our April inspection of this year, a number of open trenches and holes and several of them full of water and expressed that in our report as a concern.

Thank you.

Thank you. This is a public hearing, so any other further comments from the public? Seeing none, we will close the public hearing and I'll ask for a motion.

Mr. President. Move to approve resolution number 8861-26. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. Everyone just thought they were here for number 10, huh? All right. Resolution number 8, 8, 8, 6 dash 2, 6, Mr. Walter.

And this is item 10. It's a resolution authorizing, uh, the use and grant of public funds and things of value in aid of a, of a private entity pursuant to amendment seven, seven, two of the Alabama constitution. It relates to a development agreement with Broad Metro LLC for the stadium trace village phase two and three.

Mr. President, move to pass resolution number 8886-26. Excuse me, approve.

Mr. President, for the purpose of conversation, I second.

I have a motion and a second. Before we get into presentations, I notice that this is a resolution for phase two and three. Mr. Waldrick, can you speak on originally discussed in June, there is also an amendment to phase one that was gonna be voted on as a whole package, basically.

That's correct. This agreement encompasses that, but there's a glitch in the advertising for the meeting tonight, so we're gonna get that done and come back on the 23rd, assuming that this is passed tonight.

Very well. So assuming this is passed, we may be voting on the incentive for phase two and three And then we're gonna properly notice an amendment to the phase one incentive agreement, which will come back before us at the next meeting in July. So Mr. Munger, I'm gonna turn this over to you.

President, can I ask a procedural question?

Yes, sir.

Tonight's vote, if it is taken, assuming one will be taken either yay or nay. Is this strictly the incentives or is this going to have to do with roadways, detention ponds and all that or is that gonna come back to us in the PUD?

So this is only a vote for the 772 incentive agreement. All final designs of the road connection, the zoning within the property, and all the parameters of the actual buildings and so forth, that'll come back to us for discussion in the PUD approval.

That's correct.

How many we got, Mr. Munger? Slides.

Nominal amount. Less than Mr. Martin. OK. And due to the extensive discussion last time, I do think I will have the privilege of being more brief tonight while also carrying forth the council's intent in the public involvement process. When we first started the discussion about Stadium Trace in this most recent iteration, the council, of course, initially announced a series of meetings. We had the presentation by the developer and staff at the prior meeting put a slide deck video an FAQ opened up public comments and like you of course we have all received the same emails through the email address that the council published for this purpose believe as of last count maybe 18 unique individuals emailed some multiple times I know I've had a number of meetings several phone conversations with people very robust Q&A and obviously we have a great crowd here tonight. So I think our public involvement strategy has been a success. With that said, there are some items as you look at these that of those 18 people, for instance, over half of them are from one neighborhood, there's a lot of overlap. And so in the interest of kind of building off of the FAQ that was published last week, I think it would be wise to address collectively some of those overarching issues and to allow the developer and his consultants to speak to certain issues in conjunction with public comment. There is a very brief video that would form a factual basis of the overall project. I think it's around three minutes. And if you would like to have that played, we can advance from that point.

families gathering over dinner. Patients receiving care close to home. What does success look like? It looks like families gathering over dinner, patients receiving care close to home, businesses opening their doors, jobs being created, and a community growing stronger every day. Not long ago, Stadium Trace Village was an ambitious vision. To bring it to life, Broad Metro invested over $150 million to develop the property. Today, it has become one of Hoover's most vibrant destinations. More than 30 businesses now call Stadium Trace home, from restaurants and retail to healthcare, hospitality, fitness, financial services, and more. Together, these businesses support more than 500 jobs and generate over $73 million in direct sales annually. That number grows each year. Since 2019, the amount has exceeded $252 million. The impact extends beyond the development. Every transaction, every hotel stay, Every doctor's appointment, each one contributes to a stronger local community and helps support city services, schools, parks, and public safety. That's the power of success. Now, Broad Metro is building on that momentum with Phase 2. The plan for Village Green has evolved into a place where the community comes together for shared experiences, music events, pop-up markets, and festivals. Development will include new healthcare facilities, expanded retail, hospitality, professional office spaces, senior living options, enhanced connectivity, and one of the region's most exciting entertainment destinations, Chasing Aces, an entertainment venue for families, friends, and corporate outings. 10 acres of scenic water management ponds will improve the conditions of Scout Lake, complemented by attractive landscaping, a boardwalk, a multi-use, and a nature trail network with outdoor learning spaces. This parkland will be enjoyed by residents and visitors alike. Peridot Place will be extended to provide local access into the development. It will feature a roundabout, adjacent multi-use paths, and traffic calming features. Rocks Gap will connect to Peridot Place, providing local residents with access to the property. The development preserves 18 wooded acres between the Northridge and Scout Creek neighborhoods. Landscape berms augment the natural terrain and serve as additional visual buffers. And on Brocks Gap Parkway, a traffic signal, turn lane, improved sidelines, and marked crosswalk will contribute to traffic safety. This is strategic growth, thoughtful growth, growth designed to create lasting value for generations. Broad Metro's continued investment is more than development. It's an investment in Hoover's future, measured not only in dollars, but in opportunity, quality of life, and community impact. The future looks bright. Let's build it together.

Last time they only clapped when I stopped talking. So we're not quite done yet. But Mr. President, one thing that you did mention that I would like to clarify further, the development agreement does contemplate that there are future necessary zoning actions on this property. One thing that you've all seen in the comments and questions we received is that many of these are extremely technical in nature. I know Mr. Smith at the last meeting had asked about a specific footage of a basically clear zone that would be around the proposed road and things of that nature. I want to be clear, we do have the consultants on behalf of the developer that will speak to this. We do not have 100% construction drawings on these things. So these drawings are conceptual in nature, driven by engineered, basically partially engineered drawings. If this does move forward to the next phase, in conjunction with the PUD action that would come before Planning Commission and ultimately Council, that would give time to actually tighten up final engineer drawings on these things. So we will provide as much information as is possible, but I just did want to convey the kind of standard limitation that there is on giving dogmatic answers on every single thing, because there is still engineering design that is necessary, as well as staff level review, planning commission work, and then again, returning to council. But with that said, The agreement also contemplates that the master plan that you have here before you will be substantially similar to what is presented. So I just want to be clear about what the expectations are. So back to the public input that we received of the 18 comments, I believe the top two items by far were regarding the necessity of the road, ancillary items such as clearing limits that are associated with that and traffic impacts. So I'm gonna turn it over to Mr. Massengill and his consultant to speak to those issues and there are some slides here to that effect as well. Okay, I'll see if I can get this one.

Thank you, I'm Jim Massengill with Broad Metro. We appreciate the opportunity to be here tonight. Playing off what Brian said, I'm gonna ask, with the comments that I was given about the traffic and signal on Brock's Gap and the roadway, I'm gonna ask our consultant, Darrell Skipper, with Skipper Consulting to come up to review the traffic and the necessity for the roadway and the signal and the safety precautions that we anticipate putting in place for the public. And he can address those questions and then we can go from there, any other things that might come up.

Thank you, Jim. Darrell Skipper, 3644 Van Road, Birmingham, Alabama. I'm a professional engineer in the state of Alabama. And our firm, Prepared Traffic Impact Study, has been working on this for quite a while. Some of the questions that have come up have to do with... how much traffic is going to be on all of these roads if Peridot is opened up down to Brock's Gap Road. And one of the fears, and I've been doing this a long time, and one of the fears that the community has is it'll change travel patterns so much that it'll change the environment that people live in. It's a realistic fear in some situations and one that needs to be addressed today. in a professional manner, in a factual manner. The roadway, if you look at this particular drawing, was prepared to give a cross-section of where the road is going to be and its relationship to the neighborhoods both to the north and south of the roadway. Let's assume the road is going to run east-west. And there's a neighborhood up the top of the hill, and you can see the difference in elevation from those. And then looking back to the north, there is Scout Lake itself. This is a picture, I believe. This is a cut that's down about 100, 150 feet from Rock Scout Road on the proposed road, somewhere around that. So you can see the lake, and then you can see the... residents on the other side. The roadway itself will be two lanes in width. Two is, we think, what we need. You can see there's a multipurpose path that will be on one side of it. What we have suggested to the clot and to the design engineers that the disturbance of the roadway envelope be as minimal as we can get it. We need to have the proper lane widths. You need to have the proper location and separation for the pedestrian multipurpose path. You need to have a certain amount of shoulder and things of that nature. But don't do anything exotic outside of that. And this is a fair representation of what they're talking about doing. This is, if you're on the roadway extended back toward Brock's Gap, that is Brock's Gap in the distance there. We think this is an appropriate approach. This is the intersection that would hit Bronx Gap. There's currently a subdivision street on the opposite side of the road. This is a new leg to the top of the screen. Those of you who have driven up and down this road, some of you on a daily basis know that if you're approaching and traveling east, you're going across the dam to Scout Lake. And if you're approaching from, say, the Met Stadium Trace, you're coming down a pretty good hill. You remember on the slide a minute ago, the residences were well above it. We tested, we did traffic counts, we did speed measurements on this hill to see what and how fast people were driving. Because if you drive out there today, it's grown up on the sides and there is enough room for the shoulder and the sidewalks and things of that nature. But vegetation and the big trees have grown up. And certainly to get the appropriate sight distance, you're going to need to do some of that clearing. The city has certain requirements as far as criteria that you follow and how much sight distance you need based on how fast people are driving. Right now, Brodsky up is posted 30 miles an hour. And that probably matches the design speed. The design speed is probably 30, 35 miles. If you get out there and drive it, the horizontal curvature, the horizontal curvature, the vertical curvature, and things of that nature, that dictates what the design speed was, and that's about representative of 30, 35 is what that is. The road that we're talking about extending down here would have a similar design speed on that. We measured the speed coming down the hill there in 2024 when we first did this, and the traffic coming down the hill there toward this intersection The 85th percentile, as a matter of fact, the 90th percentile in 2024 was 39.2 miles an hour. By the way, there were a few cars going faster than 39.2, but 85% of them were driving, which is the design criteria that we use on designing a roadway, the 85th percentile. We remeasured that in, I think it was April of this year when school was in session, and and it's bumped up from 39.2 to 39.9. This probably was done on different days of the week in a different month, so it's a little variation, but they're doing about 39 miles an hour. If you get out there and drive it, there was one guy drove it at 61 miles an hour, and I'm glad I wasn't in that vehicle, because it'd be tough to make that hill and that turn at the bottom. We need to accommodate proper sight distance. We've got to do some clearing to do that, and the developer has agreed to do that And one of the things we want to make sure of is in this next stage of engineered drawings is, one, we make sure we cut enough trees and things to get the appropriate site distance. Don't want to cut too much. There's no need going crazy over the thing. Let's just cut what we've got to do. Trees are valuable commodities, and it takes a long time to grow them. One of the things that we wanted to do, And it's something we did on Highway 280 when we went over Double Oak Mountain and all. You go over toward Chelsea, there's like three signals over there where we've placed advance signage which would indicate if you're coming down that hill, if the signal is going to turn red at the bottom of the hill, we would have detection that would let you know when the signs would flash and say prepare to stop so that you know. Those have been pretty effective out on 280. We would, in addition to the traffic signal, propose to use those. Now, as far as traffic is concerned, our study looked at two different circumstances out here, and we've got two major things happening. One is a new interchange at Shadescrest Road, and then the other would be the extension of this road. And in looking at the impacts of the interchange would have on the area, we were involved in the project of the new interchange where we did the traffic forecasting and the forecasting of the future year traffic that will be in place as a result of the interchange. The interchange will make some changes in the way people drive and the routes you take. If you are from Scout Lake back toward Shadescrest Road on Brock's Gap and the new interchange is in place, guess which way you're going to go to go to hit I-459 and go downtown Birmingham. You're probably going to go to that interchange. We get an awful lot of that traffic, though, going up to Shades Crest today, then to 150, then down to 459. We get an awful lot there because of the distance and the congestion that we are encountering over on Stadium Trace Parkway. We put all of our eggs on Stadium Trace Parkway over there. Down below, between Brock's Gap and 150, we're running about 28, 29,000 cars a day in that section right there. Below Brock's Gap on Stadium Trace, we're not running near that much. It's probably in the 18 range. We need to, if we can do it out here, have some alternate ways that people can travel and stop just loading and loading and loading Stadium Trace Parkway. We've loaded it about as much as we can load it. As a matter of fact, there's been a lot of thought about possibility of an alternate route running up through the valley from Cannon Road 52 up to near the new interchange. There's been a lot of thought, a lot of study on that to help accommodate that. we have, one of the concerns that the city has is, city staff had was, if we open this road down to Brock's Gap, will we create a lot of cut-through traffic, like the people that are on, coming up South Shades Crest, and there's a few house stops down there. Will they turn on Brock's Gap, come to Perdue, then back up to 150? And if you look at If you look at just the sheer distance from Stadium Trace at Brock's Gap, it's almost like 5,000 feet from there up onto 150 to the entrance to Stadium Trace. And the new route, if you follow it, it's like 8,000 feet. So it's going to be a lot further to go that direction. The other thing is if you look at Stadium Trace 1, we've got on-street parking. We've got some four-way stops. We're going to have some roundabouts. so that we don't have that much cut through traffic. What we do need to cut out, it will be some, because we think that the traffic numbers on Stadium Trace are gonna reduce as a part of that. We'll reduce that traffic from Brock's Gap up to 150. Where we're gonna get a primary part of our traffic is the traffic that's going to this development. And you say, okay, there we go. We're putting more traffic on it. Well, if you don't have this connector down there and you're trying to go to this development, you're generally going to be on Brock's Gap anyway and you're headed to Stadium Trace up. And what we'd rather do is if you're going to that development, use that route. Let's leave Stadium Trace for the commuter that's going back and forth to the interstate and 459. We think that there's a, Of the cut through traffic that we anticipate, we think as far as the traffic that might cut through this particular area, the city felt like anywhere from 15 to 25% of the traffic that would be cut through. We think of that 15 to 20%, about three to 5% of it would come off of Stadium Trace. So we can reduce the traffic on Stadium Trace. about six and a half percent of it would go on to this new road extension. Today, Bronx Gap, and I was involved in doing the Bronx Gap development with USS. The city was very focused on the development thoughtful in the way they put that development together. Stadium Trace doesn't have any residential driveways accessing that road directly. All of the accesses to the residences are on subdivision streets that intersect with Brock's Gap, and all of them have turn lanes on them, which is the appropriate way to design something like that. It... We'll get to questions.

Hold on.

So we built a collector street to collect the traffic from all the subdivisions and go onto the roadway. That road has about, today the traffic volume is around 9,000 a day on the road. That road has a capacity of about 16,000. So we're about 55% at capacity today. It has some room. The capacity of that stadium trace over there between Brock's Gap and 150 has a capacity of about 34,000. We're carrying about 28,000 now. So really the quality of service on stadium trace is we graded at a level of service D, whereas on Brock's Gap, a level of service C. When it's all said and done, we'll still get a D on stadium trace because it's just, it probably is gonna be 24, 25,000 versus 28. Rocks Gap level of service will still be a C, so it'll be, still have a little excess capacity in it. That's real quickly overview of what we've heard. The impact of the, there will be an impact of the interchange. There'll be people changing their travel route. The number one beneficiary of the interchange at Shades Crest will be the intersection of 459 and 150, by far. That intersection right now probably in the morning peak coming down 150 when you turn left onto the interstate to go back towards 65 is probably about 1,800 an hour. That's far too much traffic to be handled in two lanes of traffic. That traffic that's coming from South Shadescrest, coming from Roxgap on that end, and from North Shadescrest, they're going to go to that Shadescrest interchange. It's just quicker. quicker route to 459. So it'll have a dramatic impact on that. The biggest impact is offloading 150. And that's good news. Because it needs a little offloading. So that's real brief. I'll probably get more in four minutes.

We'll hold questions until the whole presentation. Thank you, Darrell.

I'm going to ask Brian to go back to the cross section. I want to point out a few things here. The houses on the right side of the screen, that's Northridge Community. It's approximately 700 feet from the right side of the roadway of Pareto Extension back to the houses. On the left side of the screen is Scout Lake. It's approximately 500 feet to those houses. Might add, you'll see here, there's 145 feet of vertical difference between the yards in Northridge and the proposed roadway grade for the extension of Peridot. And there's approximately 18 and a half acres of property that Broad Metro owns there. that the roadway right away takes up, consumes 2.08 acres. That's including sidewalks, street safety zone, and landscape berms, which are gonna be approximately eight feet high on the lakeside to soften the roadway, similar to what you saw in the other slides. But the remainder of approximately 16 and a half acres of naturally wooded area will continue to be naturally wooded area in this proposed extension plan. So I'll turn it back over to Brian.

So one of the things, and this was previously included in the FAQ, there was a prior iteration of the stadium trace proposal that did not include a connecting road. I think it was just termed phase two only. And there was a good bit of commentary from adjacent property owners about why the change. Of course, the development that is before you this evening is a development of both sectors two and three, not just sector two, which housed the ambulatory surgical center Chasing Aces and I believe the other memory care facility basically. It was a partial development. That version of the proposal did include only a trail, maybe a multi-purpose trail, something similar to what you saw depicted on the drawing. There was a completely separate traffic study that accompanied that from I believe 2024 and just basically different traffic counts and what we have on this development overall. As part of the negotiation at that time, the city had agreed, if that proposal had moved forward tentatively, that the city would at a certain time in the future, I suppose when the city deemed it appropriately, that the city would construct that connecting road at their expense. And that is reflected in our staff files. Obviously, that proposal never came to fruition, but that is something that was covered in the FAQ, because I understand why that has caused a significant number of questions in conjunction with the separation from the homes. I've seen many things that basically ask, what about the trees near my house? Valid question. You basically have a multi-hundred thousand dollar piece of property that was entitled for building homes and eroded previously by the USX deed that is now being turned into largely a reserve property with no clearing outside of the boundaries that you see there. And that is an expectation that we have expressed to the developer that we do anticipate and expect to be carried forward into the bud agreement. So it would not be something where that 140 foot vertical slope, where it's graded and then replanted, it stays as it is. on the one side 12.4 acres, on the other over four acres, substantial buffer. And because of the vertical elevation, 140 plus feet, and the trees, I don't believe it's actually possible for people in that neighborhood to even see the road at all, just because of the angle. Just the angle. It's not an opinion. So there were other items on here that are in the FAQ, but I know there are a lot of people here that want to have their turn at the microphone. And so unless council has any specific questions that you'd like me to cover, I would cede the microphone.

Okay. Any comments or questions from council concerning road study and so forth?

Not yet.

Not yet.

Okay.

Great. Thank you.

At this time, it is a public hearing, so I'll open it up for questions from the public. If you'll come down and state your name and... Where you at? You'll have four minutes to speak. We'll try to get all your questions answered. If it turns out that all of you have the same question, we'll kind of combine it, but...

I appreciate the council giving me time to speak here. I do live in Scout Creek.

If you could, state your name.

Oh, I'm sorry, Barry Goodwin. I live in Scout Creek. I'm very concerned about this. The main reason is you're coming down a blind hill into the intersection. If you've ever driven that, you'll see that. Secondly, if you've ever tried to get out of Scout Creek in the morning during school, And the traffic at that time is backed up beyond the second entrance, not the first entrance coming from Stadium Trace, but the second entrance. And that's without a red light there. And those of us who travel a little bit and have to get out early in the morning, if you've ever been on 150 sitting at a red light right there by the two gas stations that have you turn left to go up to all the eateries and things of that nature, and you're sitting there at 430 in the morning and there's nobody there and you're dead stopped at a red light. So if... this ever goes, then I think consideration needs to be given to some kind of camera designation or something like that that allows it to turn red on Brock's cap, only if there's a vehicle there and not have you just stopping there. Mainly my concern on this is, well, there's a couple more, is that's going right through the portion where all our places where we all go to eat. I heard that $252 million has been spent in this village. I think we spent a lot of that because we go there a lot and that's a great place and the things that they mentioned doing here is fantastic. But you can get there and not have this. I was pretty excited when they talked about maybe having a walkway or a path or something like that. But to do this, I have two grandkids that go to Hoover High School, and they drive this every morning, and they drive it every afternoon. And I press them to know that it's a 30-mile-an-hour speed limit. We always have us a good... Our buddies at Hoover Police Department are always sitting by our pool or sitting at the entrance to the other subdivision, which is going to connect to this one. But I just don't see a need to have access to something that is going to be commercial. as opposed to something that, a school or something like that that would make it. This is a money-making venture for these guys, and I'm glad they're doing it. I mean, there's a lot of good stuff up there, but I just drive up and get on Stadium Trace and go up, and I mean, yeah, Stadium Trace, and turn there and get up into the facility without this road. So I think it's... Two things, one, I don't think it's really necessary. And if I had a business in there, I would not be very happy with all that cut-through. We keep talking about cut-through, cut-through, cut-through. I wouldn't feel safe walking in that area if they had this, and it's coming the same way right off of 150 that we get into there now. And second of all, I just don't want to have, you know, they talk about four acres. Everybody talks like four acres is a lot of land. Four acres is not a lot of land. I've got a lot in Scout Trace that's almost an acre. That ain't a lot of land. And he's talking about can't see it for the trees and all like that. Come on, guys. Come on. Come on. All right. That's all I got.

Thank you, sir.

Good evening. My name is Patrick Flanley. I live in Scout Creek as well. And as a licensed professional civil engineer, I am quite concerned about the safety of this proposed traffic light. There are basic principles that you put in place when you design an intersection. The Federal Highway Authority administration and the state DOTs all give you guidance on the things that you should do and the things that you shouldn't do. And this particular location is a dangerous confluence of at least three things that you should not do where you have a traffic light. Since the time that I've lived in this neighborhood, high school kids coming out of the high school come over that hill every day. The traffic's gotten more and more every year. So a study that was done in 24 is not 26. We are seeing more and more traffic in Brock's Gap every day. There was a vehicle, you can see it on your screen, where it comes over the hill and down. At that first turn, we've had at least one vehicle go straight over that edge. Somebody just didn't navigate the first curve. There's a lamp at the lake on the left-hand side that's been hit at least five times since I've moved into this neighborhood. The kids cannot navigate these three complicated curves the way they stand. It doesn't look so bad on a 2D drawing. When you look at it in 3D, it's not just a vertical drop. It's a vertical drop combined with two horizontal turns, which are actually quite blind. And so there is not good line of sight for this spot, even if you cut the trees. I myself have almost rear-ended somebody that was at that spot making a left-hand turn into Brock's Cove. Luckily, there's only a few houses in there. And most of the time, they can make that turn without stopping. But the day that they stopped that day, there were two cars behind them. And I did not see them until I turned that corner. Maybe if you clear the trees, you can improve the sight distance, but you can't do much about the vertical drop. And so the principle of safe stopping distance is A, you see the problem, and B, you can stop in time for the problem. And so I don't see a good way that you're going to be able to mitigate that. And the day you need to design for is the wet day. The day when it's really raining down that hill and stopping just as multiple times what it would otherwise be. And the person you need to worry about is the inexperienced driver who isn't doing 35 miles an hour because they just get out of high school and they're rocking their tunes on their stereos. And so some kid will come over that hill and will not. The fact that they're willing to concede or somebody's thinking, we'll put up a sign to warn them about the light around the corner, tells us there's no room for that light. Because that's not the only hazard. A car coming across the lake making a left-hand turn is an equal hazard. So you come around that corner, you didn't get the warning about the red light because it's not red, but there's a car turning right on that corner with a small turning radius right in front of you. There is a T-bone potential situation. there's a significant drop to the right of that road. It's not flat. And so the rendering we see shows a pretty flat road. But I don't know how you're going to build that road up there that flat. It would require a ton of fill. Otherwise, that road is coming up an incline to the intersection. So a car coming from this development that needs to make a right-hand turn is also going to represent a really slow-moving vehicle that's a major obstacle to anybody coming around that corner down that hill. The last thing I will point out, maybe, is to repeat what one of the other speakers said. It's really difficult to make a left-hand turn out of Scout Creek in the morning when the high school kids are there. I myself have been tempted once or twice to make a right-hand turn and go up and find a left turn to turn around. You put a stop signal there, that's going to make that situation worse. Now, that's not a safety concern. I get that. But I will tell you this also. There are cars currently driving up Stadium Trace towards 1.50 in the morning that are making the left and going through the phase one of this development to cut out the need to make the left-hand turn at 1.50. If this intersection goes in, there'll be a lot of people making that left-hand turn that I've warned you about with cars coming down the hill in the opposite direction. So my concern would be safety. I think that a lot of due diligence should be done on calculating the sight distances and putting more factors of safety around the speed, the wetness, and the stopping distances and visual distances that are necessary to have a safe intersection here. I'm not sure the need for this road overcomes all those safety objections. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Feiner.

Sir, if I could ask you a quick question. Sure. I really enjoy your accent. Are you a Scotsman?

I'm actually originally from Ireland, but most people can't tell that these days.

I'm in trouble for asking it from these guys.

The Scouts are our cousins, all good. Appreciate y'all, thank you.

My name is John Papke. I also live in Scout Trace, and on Scout Trace is an unusual role for me, excuse me. I've covered hundreds of city council meetings, but I've never actually spoke at one before. So I've driven down that hill many, many times every single day, and as he mentioned, Mr. Skipper, you're going 30, at least 40 miles an hour coming down that hill. And to put an intersection at a sharp curve like that at the bottom of the hill is risky. A lot of my neighbors feel it's risky. So it is good to hear that they are considering, you know, scaling back the trees and putting extra warning signs at that location. The other questions, two points I wanted to make, if you put a lot more traffic on Perdido Place, the road that will cut through, that's more traffic that you're dealing with at the intersection with 150. You'll have to allow more green time to flush that intersection, which could potentially back up the traffic on Stadium Trace Parkway. That's something I hope that they're considering in the design of this intersection. And also, I didn't know if this was mentioned earlier, but the roundabout that everybody's been clamoring for in the initial phase, phase one, at the top of Perdido Place, right there, right off 150, That doesn't flow very well. You've got three directions that stop. The one direction coming off, 150, is free-flowing. I hope there's a plan to put a roundabout at that location as part of this next phase of the development. Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you. There is a planned roundabout in the first section of Phase 1 there. Yes, sir.

I'm Mike Perry. We live at 557603 Circle. All right, so the issue has been the traffic. They've covered that, so I'm not going to address that. I think it's been well documented how many light poles have been knocked down. The pedestrian crossing at the top of North Ritz and Chesh Ridge has been knocked down within six months after it's been put up. So the traffic issues, and Mr. Skipper does an excellent job of explaining it, and I'm not sure how many... Situations have been explained in the past where we've had traffic studies that didn't work. But if you look at the time from you get off 459 and you look at all the merging and everything going on just to get the stadium trace, it's insane. But that's been covered. What I wanna talk about is the city considering giving another $23 million, going back to phase one and giving another $5 million, and that's good. It's easy to give away other people's money, isn't it? Wouldn't you like to do that? And in fact, it's easy to give it away to developers, but the one rule I've always heard in development is without rooftops, there's no retail, okay? So all of us live in here. We are the rooftops. We're the ones who live here. And as far as I can tell on my tax assessment, maybe somebody else has seen something different, I have yet to see my taxes go down. They've gone up. Now, I didn't get any incentive, and I don't expect to get one since I live here. But they're going to come here knowing full well what the topography was of that land. They're going to bring the retail here in phase one, which is outstanding. We love going there. No complaints outside the traffic. However, when you go to phase two, now where are we going on phase two? We got a medical center. We got some other golf concept. It'll be number one, number two, number three. No telling what we're gonna get. There's no performing arts center, which I'm actually delighted to hear we're not gonna spend $40 million to do that, because it doesn't make sense. But where is the sales tax revenue? So I contacted the city last week, phone call, email, no response. My question is, $250 million has been spent in the last 10 years, outstanding. How much has the city collected? The schools are gonna get their money no matter what. We know that. It's all good. They need that. No problems. However, we're gonna commit to 20 years of giving tax abatements. It doesn't matter if it's this developer. It could be anybody. We're gonna give that money away. And when we come up here year after year, what we're gonna see is a city budget is gonna go up, up, up. We've got representatives from the city here. And the ones I've talked to from the building department, police, fire, I've yet to hear one of them say, we've got everything we need. We have an unlimited budget. They don't have that. But what we're gonna do is we're gonna give a developer for one project incentive package but yet we're gonna see increases in the budget and we're gonna have to make decisions on what we're gonna spend our money on okay compare this to the summit the summit is well documented city of Birmingham got the incentives they paid it back in a record time it's very difficult site they knew that when they bought it that's a retail site and they generate incredible amount of sales tax for city of Birmingham All I want to know is if we're going to give them money, what are we going to get? That's all. Because you've got a decision to make. You've got property. There's traffic. There's landscaping. There's all kind of issues everybody's already talked about. But at the end of the day, I really don't want to hear next year, the following year, 10 years down the road, how great everything is when you're spending our money, but yet you need money for every other department in the city the mayor has taken over and said we're going to do these great things with. but yet the gallery is sitting there empty. We've got Patton Creek, and we've got Walmart, we've got Target Centers that are operational, but we all know they're not at full capacity. So all I'm saying is when you decide to give our money away, make sure you're getting something back in return. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. President, gentlemen, sir, sir, if I could real quick. You understand that it's not a flat 20-year period. incentive if it should pass. There's a ceiling, and if that ceiling is hit at year 14, 15, 17, then it stops then. It's not a flat 20. They've got to be successful. If they can't be successful, then they're not getting any of the incentives. except what happens in the very beginning.

Which is for the retention pond money, correct? For the stormwater drainage? $4 million, is that right?

Yes, sir, $4 million up front.

All right, $4 million up front. I can't find this, I've been looking for it, but there's enough documentation out there. If you look at USX, going back to the beginning, we built in Willow Trace. When they first opened this, 30-something years ago, As I recall in the documents I could find, but I can't completely document it, but Scout Lake was a creek. It was a retention area. That's why the road is down there. So it's a retention pond. Retention ponds do what? They retain sediment. You've got a huge drainage basin that I think has been documented by people that have sent you things already. So from that standpoint, you're talking about numerous issues, traffic, drainage, retail. But the summit, just so we're clear, the summit, the city, everybody said they made a huge mistake by giving Jeffrey Baer that money. He paid it back in record time. If this developer can do that, I think we'd all be in agreement. That's a great deal. But from the development that's going in phase two and three, I don't see much retail. I don't see much sales tax generation. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just looking at it. So when you look back in five years, and I think there's a gentleman here, Councilman Schultz, talking about transparency, right? That's what we always heard for several years when he was up here. So I want to know the transparency part to where we see the decisions you made and how they're going to affect us and benefit us. Not a developer. That's all.

Sir, if I may speak on the retail portion, I believe that is by design and something the city has been pushing for actually. You just mentioned Patton Creek and Galleria, and I feel very positive about those developments coming forward in the near future. This doesn't affect any future incentives or development pieces for those properties. But I think we can all say that retail is abundant and strong here in Hoover. We don't necessarily need a huge development focused on more retail. The city has asked for more entertainment style pieces. So, you know, as our kids, I have two high school kids, you know, when they get done with prom or whatever, They're going downtown to the golf resort or something or corporate events and so forth. We've asked for more entertainment spaces. So yes, you won't see necessarily the retail dollars because we're asking for more entertainment spaces in Hoover to keep people in Hoover so they don't have to go downtown for those sites.

Very good.

My name is Bill McKenna. I live in Chestnut Ridge. My concern is about the taxpayers of Hoover as well. And in the previous session here two weeks ago, we had a slide from the developer who talked about a map of Alabama. who was coming from different places. Obviously, most of the people coming to Stadium Trace Village are coming from Hoover, but there are some people coming from other places. Their insinuation was that, in fact, these people are being drawn to Hoover by Stadium Trace Village. I don't believe that at all. I believe that they're coming to Hoover and, oh, by the way, I'm gonna have to eat lunch somewhere or whatever. And so in fact, they eat at Taco Mama's or they eat at Longhorn Steakhouse or whatever. But at any rate, I believe that the money that we have been giving to this developer would have gone, would have been incurred and would have gone to the Treasury had you not agreed to give it to them. And I think the same thing applies to the new phase. Now, let's look at your slide two of the presentation last week. And in that, you basically said you're going to get 19 some million dollars in sales tax revenue for the city. I hope you recall that. Well, in fact then that means that they would be getting $30 million because they're getting 60%, we're getting 40. So the real question is, are you really willing to, in a city that if you look around, there's excess retail space all over the place, I mean, you've recently, I think, hired an outside planning agency or consultant to do some study work on Patton Creek and some of the other areas of excess retail capacity. So at any rate, back to the slide two, you have your financial analyst going through that and he said, well, look, we're gonna spend $4 million, but we're gonna get 20. Well, I'm saying you would have got that 20 if you did nothing. So you're not getting a 500% return on your $4 million investment. In fact, you are giving away $30 million, based on his numbers, $30 million plus $4 million. So you're giving them $34 million, and to the gentleman's point who just spoke, okay, that affects the treasury of Hoover, Alabama. Now, your financial analyst wanted to be safe, he said, so therefore, what did he use as an inflation index? 1.5%, 1.5% for 20 years. Do you believe that? Do you want him to be safe or do you want him to be accurate? What's the inflation rate been over the past 10 years? 3.17%, that's a hell of a difference. That means that you're not gonna give them $30 million, you're gonna give them $40 million. So my concern is, if this is such a good deal, let them do it, but for God's sake, don't give them $40 million.

Thank you, sir. If I may, though, there's a cap on what the developer can earn, and that's $23 million from the sales tax and other rebates. So if the percentage goes above one and a half, then they get their money faster, we get our money faster, and the years are lowered. Does that make sense? There's no way the developer can get $30 million.

Well, in the... in the outline on your schedule two, in fact, you were only getting $19 million and change, okay? And the rest of the sales tax was going to the developer.

There is a rebate cap of 23 million.

My point is, in either case, as far as I'm concerned, you would acquire that money anyhow, whether he builds his thing or not. because the people in Hoover are going to go somewhere to spend their money.

Thank you.

And we have an excess capacity. We don't need more.

Yes, sir. Appreciate you. Ms. Thomas?

Surprise. KT Thomas, Scout Creek.

Excuse me, what was that name again?

It was not my phone that went off today. Thank you to Broad Metro and to the council and to the mayor for making stormwater an important part of this conversation. While the vote tonight is about funding, the rationale for the incentives is based on income to schools and to the city and stormwater control. Thus, the design concept that has been shared and used to justify these incentives is really important. Broad Metro and Stadium Trace One are successful enterprises, and I think we're all happy about that. Mr. Kadish is a capable and successful man, and we're fortunate to have him in Trace Crossings. But I am a bit confused about the $4 million that's being paid up front. And I think you may have partly answered that, but... It only takes me partway to the answer that I would like to hear. I would like to know what that $4 million is going to be spent on. Is it the stormwater ponds? Is it engineering? Is it sidewalks? I don't know exactly what it's going to cover. And I would also like to hear from Shoal Engineering regarding the ponds. The previous iteration of Stadium Trace Village 2 had six new ponds. and the current iteration that has been shared with us and that your decisions are going to be based on has two ponds. Now the point of those ponds is to stop the flooding, which then takes sediment and debris into Scout Lake. Now we know that that's an issue, but Ms. Stryver can tell you that maintenance of these ponds is also really critical. That what happened with the UAB free standing emergency room pond devastated Scout Lake because that facility was not maintained. And the person who owns the pond, so one of my questions is if the city's money is $4 million is going to build these two ponds, do you own it and therefore are you going to maintain it? Or is Broad Metro going to maintain it? And how are you going to untangle that? Because we have public money and private money. We now have public money on private property. So that's another concern that I have. I think it would be helpful, for me at least, because you know that I'm a little simple-minded, that more details in writing explaining how the $4 million will be spent, what are the performance expectations for Broad Metro relative to the $4 million for Stadium Trace Village 1 and potentially 2 and 3, And what are the engineering specifications for the ponds and the plan for maintenance of those ponds? So I want to summarize again by saying I support this development. And I appreciate the idea that we might get more information, especially before decisions are made. And one more time, I want to thank the mayor and the council and Broad Metro for being concerned about stormwater. As you know, I think it's a problem.

Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Townsend. I'm gonna get your questions answered. Mr. Munger, can you step to the mic? Or if you feel like someone from Broad Metro should.

So for the primary part of that question about basically what's the $4 million pay for, I would ask that one of our legal teams simply read from the proposed agreement. It's addressed directly in quite a bit of detail. So I don't know who has that document handy. I do not have it in my hand. Mr. Barnett.

Excuse me, Mr. President, let's get to the right point. I'll just read the entire section. The upfront payment shall mean a lump sum payment of $4 million. payable only after the following conditions precedent have been satisfied, A. This agreement shall become legally binding and enforceable according to section 3.1B. The developer has closed on the acquisition of property or has otherwise demonstrated to the city's reasonable satisfaction a present enforceable right to develop Stadium Trace 2, and C, the developer has provided the city evidence reasonably satisfactory to the city of the availability of the AMLR funds to the developer. Subject to the foregoing conditions, couple of conditions there, the upfront payment shall be paid to the city within 10 business days after satisfaction of such conditions, and validation of this agreement by the Circuit Court of Jefferson County. What that is, a validation proceeding, this matter is taken before Circuit Judge, and the Circuit Judge blesses the agreement as lawful. That's the bottom line. It's oversimplifying it, but that's the gist of it. The city shall promptly pursue such validation upon the adoption of the agreement. The upfront payment is expressly conditioned upon the developer's timely achievement of the performance milestones set forth in this agreement and shall be subject to recapture by the city as provided in a lower section, section 4.1. So I hope that answers that question.

So I guess what is the purpose of the formality?

That's the two.

The timely piece that you mentioned in there, what is the timely piece referred to? The timely completion, that is. Oh, okay.

I follow you now. My bad. Okay, so the earlier of, let me see, sales tax revenue, lodging tax revenue, incentives, no, that does not go to that particular point.

Mr. Barnett, if you can just summarize it, you don't have to read it verbatim.

Okay, well, I was just following his request. There is a period of time, I believe it's 180 days, that they have to follow up. I'd rather read that section. I'm gonna get it wrong as sure as I try to quote it. So I'm looking at the document, but I'm trying to carve out the upfront payments. But it's going to be more difficult. The earlier of the first day of the calendar month following the first revenue generating building portion of the development,

Mr. Barnett, I'm gonna pause you for just a minute. Sure. And I'm gonna ask Mr. Massengill or Mr. Kadish, can you speak to what the four million's for?

Sure, I'm familiar with this because I know what I'm obligated to do. The four million dollars is specifically referenced as a recapture item if I do not perform. And the performance that we're talking about is turning 11 acres of our development into a ponding system and a filtration system for all of the stormwater runoff that currently goes into Scout Lake. And if I don't do that, I have to pay that money back to the city. Just so that you know. And that's in the recapture paragraph. You'll get to it in detail.

Can anyone speak to the number of retention ponds

There are, excuse me, yes, very good point. It's so funny.

And who will maintain those ones?

KG Thomas is usually right on top of these things.

She is far from simple-minded.

Yeah, far from simple-minded. And if she doesn't get it tonight, she will get it in the next meeting and the next meeting and the next meeting. Fortunately, I've never had a problem with KG Thomas or the people who manage to follow up because I do the right thing. There are five ponds in the 10 acre area. And a lot of work has gone into this. And these are just not retention ponds, as some people have suggested. The people who purchased on Scout Lake expected a lake, a beautiful lake, and they're gonna have a beautiful lake. And the five ponds that we are using as a filtration system that were designed by Walter Scholl, whose good friend, Nimrod Long, who also designed Eldridge Gardens in Hoover, and all of Mountain Brook. When you see those beautiful waterfalls, we brought Walter Scholl, brought him back out of retirement to design our nature paths and these ponds. Let me just clarify the most important thing. My name is William Kadish, and I live at 1791 Glass Cot Trail in Hoover, Alabama. Much things have been said that I don't or whatnot. I expect you to hold me accountable and I will deliver just as I did on Stadium Trace One. Sorry if I.

Thank you, Mr. Cage.

So it's a long paragraph and I'll just.

I think we're good, Mr. Barnett. Okay. We'll move on from that. Ms. Thomas, are you satisfied? Are you satisfied with that answer? After the meeting, can you meet with Shoal and they'll go over it with you? Thank you very much.

Mr. President, do we pay Mr. Barnett by the word?

Ms. Beavers?

I am Sheree, and I don't live in a stadium. I don't live anywhere near stadium trees. And I'm not an activist, and I'm not an environmentalist, but I have a big problem with all the building that is going on. I'm not against growth, but we have to look at our environment. We tear down trees. We are running the animals out of their habitats. I've been here for 26 years and I've never seen so many different animals in our neighborhood. I see deer. We have coyotes. Where do these coyotes come from? They come from places that we keep running them out of and then they start coming into the neighborhoods. Coyotes are not friendly dogs. But I just feel like, and like I said, I'm not against growth. We do need growth to keep the city going. But we also need to look at what we're doing to our oxygen level. We need to see what we're doing with our tree growth. These trees take forever to grow. And the more we keep cutting down, the fewer we're gonna continue to have. We always talk about the traffic and the storm water maintenance. But just looking at everything that is empty in our city, we do need to start looking at trying to fill that before we do any more areas. Thank you.

Mr. President, if I could, ma'am. Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am. Mr. Beavers. One thing I wanted to say is the city's kind of, between a rock and a hard place when it comes to areas of vegetated properties, preferably those with trees. I wish we could have more trees, but property owners have rights. And if they meet the zoning requirements and things like that, then they could go do whatever they wanted to do without coming to the council. They could clear cut and do the things that they wanna do, they just gotta go get a permit. And the best way to know that something's gonna stay is for HOAs to buy up these properties, if possible. And then that way they're gonna stay what they've always been. But then when somebody figures out they can make money off of it, then they're gonna sell it.

I understand that, I just, It's just me. I mean, I look around and I see all these poor animals, just they have nowhere to go anymore. I understand. And we do need our forest or trees. And I understand that if you own a property, you can pretty much do what you want with it. but we just kind of clown.

You can't do just anything with it.

People think they can do anything. But we just kind of, sometimes I think we need as a whole to kind of step back and take a look at what we're doing. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.

Mr. Lawrence?

Yes.

My name is Steve Lawrence. I live in Park Trace. I'm here tonight representing the Trace Crossings Residential Association, HOA, where I serve as the treasurer. Our HOA consists of nine neighborhoods, 1,475 residents. Less than two weeks ago, we had a sonar done of Scout Lake to get an update on its condition. 65% of the lake was a depth of two feet or less. 20% of the lake was a depth of one foot or less. The lake has 14,000 cubic yards of sediment that needs to be dredged to restore it back to its original condition. If you had a football field, a regulation football field, and add seven feet of dirt all the way across it evenly, that's how much sediment is in that lake. This problem has been occurring for over a decade. You don't just get 14,000 cubic yards of sediment in a lake in a couple years. So the fact the City of Hoover and the developer, Broad Metro, have proposed a stormwater plan in the State of Trace Phase II, which will resolve this issue preventing future sediment from entering our lake, it is very much appreciated. The lake has cost the HOA hundreds of thousands of dollars over the past decade, with absolutely zero fault of any resident in the Trace Crossings community. The proposed road is also desperately needed for our community as well. It's been promised for over a decade. And when they build the interchange in front of Brock's Gap Parkway, there's going to be tremendous more volume on Brock's Gap Parkway. People going off the interstate to the Hoover Met, the Finley Center. So you're going to want another road to get out of Trace Crossings. And two times in the last year, State and Trace Parkway is completely blocked. So lastly, the developers committed in writing to the HOA to commit funds towards dredging Scout Lake. For this reason, the HOA Board voted unanimously in support of this agreement, and we hope the City Council votes yes to help resolve these long-term problems that have affected the 1,475 residents of Trace Crossings. Thank you.

Mr. Winther, before you begin, the vote that Mr. Lawrence referred to, I have a letter here that I want to submit to the city clerk for purposes of this meeting from the board of directors, Trace Crossings Residential Association, and the president of the Chestnut Ridge Owners Association stating their support for the project due to what Mr. Lawrence was just referring to. If you'll put those in the record, Ms. Dickerson.

Mr. Winther. Matt Winther, Scout Creek Drive. I had a whole page here for everything I was going to talk about, some of which probably might not have made these guys too happy, but I wasn't attacking them. I have these guys' cell phone numbers. I've talked to them on the phone. They've sent me over drawings. I had questions. Jim called me on the phone. We went through it. I believe wholeheartedly that their intention is to do the right thing as related to stormwater. I'm very worried about but that's a lot bigger problem, as I stated in the opening, than this particular project. I understand people have problems with that cut-through road if you live above or you live on the other side of the lake and you've got concerns about how it's gonna look. I believe they're gonna try and do the right thing. Them getting up here and stating very clearly, not in lawyer speak, but in plain speak, what the $4 million is for and how they're accountable goes a long way for me. And it should go a long way for everybody. I have questions about the engineering drawings. I have questions about the engineering company. They have been behind some pretty terrible projects that have affected me personally. I know the guy sitting right here that did the engineering. I do believe they can do good projects. It's all about the client that they're working for. The client will drive them in the direction that they want to go. They did a less than admirable job at the preserve, I would say. And I think that with Broad Metro driving them, I hope they're going to do the right thing. And there's $4 million on the line. So that's all I've got to say. Thank you, Mr. Mitchell.

Got in before nine o'clock, so I'm doing well. Kevin Borey, and I don't live in Scout Creek, I live in Lake Trace. I've got a comment and a question. I'll start with the comment. It's traffic related and I realize that's gonna be handled later. I've heard over and over how the new deal with the intersection and the entrance from Brock's Gap is going to, the Brock's Gap neighborhoods are going to love it because it's going to reduce the traffic on Stadium Trace. It's going to reduce the traffic on 150. It's going to provide, everybody's going to go out exit nine and reduce that whole intersection. there's a lot of traffic that's gonna come in on exit nine. It's all gonna go down Rocks Gap. And I saw a slide, it was two hours ago. It showed the left turn lane and the straight turn lane right there where you go into Perdido Place. That straight lane was gonna have to be up on a sidewalk that right now is a sidewalk with a guardrail that drops straight down into Lake Trace. So I haven't heard anybody say, hey, we're gonna have this left turn lane that's gonna handle 20, 30 cars worth of congestion and how you're gonna, what you're gonna do to Lake Trace to get another lane right now, which is a sidewalk and a guardrail. So I just want to say that that's got a lot of imagination still to put into it. Are you gonna have traffic backed up on Brock's Gap? all the way, who knows to where, because people are gonna be just sitting there waiting to turn left and blocking all the through traffic that's trying to get to schools and everywhere else. So that's just a comment, just because that's on my mind. The question is, and this is a very straightforward, maybe it's a yes or no question. You may or may not have to get out his notebook again, but it's a legal question. Whose responsibility is it? Is it the City of Hoover's responsibility to fix what we're referring to as Scout Lake? Yes or no, is it Hoover's responsibility to fix the lake?

If you're asking about a legal responsibility, Yes. I don't think it is. But if you're talking about commitments that have been made to the people of the citizens, then I think it is.

And in what form? I mean, what do you mean by commitments? Is it $4 million worth of problems if we don't follow through on the commitment?

I can't tell you how much it costs. I'll tell you what I've been told.

That's what I'm asking for. That's going to be in the neighborhood of $400 million. That's right. I'm sorry. I'm talking over you.

That's okay. That's going to be what we put in the agreement. The reason that, in fairness to Scott, it's a very detailed agreement. It's detailed so that if we have to claw back and get this money, then we've tried to prepare for exigent circumstances. So just the question in the abstract about stormwater management, the Alabama Supreme Court's recently had a case that resolves that. But if you're talking about commitments that the city has made, then that's a different story. Scott, you got anything to add to it, or Johnny?

Yeah, I guess I'm still not sure that it was, to me, you know, what's causing the need to invest $4 million up front as opposed to additional tax incentives of $4 million later. It's the same money to the developer. Maybe it's $4.5 million later. If he's successful, it's the same money. It's just time value of money. but it's not a risk to Hoover to put it later if he's successful. So why, if it's not a liability of Hoover, if Hoover doesn't have a legal, let him fix it. That's great, that's great for the residents of Scott. I want it to be fixed. We get sediment into Lake Trace from Scott Lake. But why is Hoover investing $4 million if Hoover doesn't have a $4 million liability fix?

That's my question. I'm just a lawyer. I don't have a vote. But I would say it's a quality of life issue. And I think that that's the reason that the council's considering this because it's not just this lake in the abstract. It's what does this do for this entire community? What's the benefit that they're going to get? Council President mentioned a while ago that the focus, because I was in a meeting when he said this, that the focus has moved somewhat from retail, we have retail and we're gonna continue to do that I think, but that A quality of life issue for the citizens who live here and for where their kids are going to grow up and where they want them to come back to, maybe it makes sense to have a chase and aces that will compete with the government.

Let me interrupt because I should have said this at the onset. I support the development, okay? I support it. I think that it's great. I think it's not having retail, having entertainment, having more living facilities. I think it's just great for the community. I'm sorry I didn't say that earlier. I'm just really focused on the $4 million and why we need to spend $4 million as a city from taxpayer money to fix a problem that we were not responsible for.

Mr. Borey, I think Mr. Waldrop kind of answered it for us, but... This whole administration, from the council to the mayor, ran on commitments that Mr. Waldrop mentioned. We've demonstrated that with our last budget vote by fixing at least five major stormwater issues throughout the city that have been ongoing for too long. And this is a very similar situation. Ever since my first... Day on the council almost in 2016, Dr. DeFranco, Greg Williams, I've sat down with that community my very first year in their homes, and they've gone over the issues with this property. So it has been an issue for a long time, for too long in many of our opinions. And that's what we ran on to fix issues like that, because we have a Hoover standard. And right now, it is not meeting that standard. That's the purpose. And it's up front because we want to see it done now and not 10 years down the road. Okay.

I guess, and I'll walk away. I'm sure that timer's on. It's not even moving, so maybe I can keep talking. Oh, no, I guess. No, I just think it's done. When you fix something for other people, you fix it and you own it, and if it goes wrong, you fix it again. I mean, that's the city spending money on city things. This is putting money into development that maybe the developer is responsible for doing down the road, and maybe there's some clawback, maybe there's not. You know, I'm just saying it seems a lot simpler if it's a development, put it in taxes, and let him spend the money, let him fix it. You're still putting money behind it, but you're not putting capital at risk. And that's my only comment, and I'll shut up and let someone else.

Meaning why he's the skin of a cat, in other words.

Was that? Yes, absolutely. I just want you to consider it. You'll do what you think. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Sheila Goodwin. I live in Scout Trace. I do not support the letter that our homeowners association has given you. They have not mailed. They have not mailed that letter to any of the members in the Homeowners Association. We were not privy to the vote, so that is news to me that I support, through my Homeowners Association, this road, because I do not. So I just wanted to make that clear. The Homeowners Association is speaking as the board and not the members of the Homeowners Association.

Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Hello, good evening. My name is Jordan Hosey, and I live at 1856 Swan Lane. And I wanted to come up here to kind of give a perspective from, I know I've heard a lot of the residents speak about value of their property, the effects that it does. And I wanted to give a few pointers and some advice and an offer on the table for anyone that feels like their properties could be adversely affected. I want you to consider what these values were worth. prior to these retail developments coming in. And what Mr. Kadish is trying to do, I don't know of anyone else that's standing in line to develop mined land. That is a massive risk. And not only is it a massive risk, there's a massive underwriting guideline that you have to go through from a banking perspective, and you have to have some backing up front. And I tell my clients, as a real estate broker, You always have to make your property healthy and safe before you make it pretty. So the amount of work that has to get done, the seven feet of sediment that has to get cleaned, and there's no one else that has stood in that line. And I've watched you guys come up here time and time again over the years complaining about the same issues that no one has raised their hand to fix. And there is some value in that. And yes, the $4 million is a large number, but who else is willing to actually take the risk and the headache and the amount of mental anguish and stress and years of planning and amount of development teams that have to come together to actually take on the risk and fix the problem that they didn't even create? Or to develop land that's mined that's very high-risk property that can have concave problems with it as well? And I don't know of a single person, because when I moved back to Hoover in 2020, my property values have doubled. So when you ask what's in it for me, it's equity, and it's a lot of it. And if you have considered what comes up for us, the number one thing that people ask when they're wanting to buy properties here is, what's around here? And the very thing that you're complaining about is the first thing you're going to advertise in that MLS description, that it's close to retail and shopping. and dining and everything else that's around it. So I would dare to ask you guys not to be so short-sighted and to look at the immediate risk that's being played and come from a place of not just what does it cost, but what value does it actually bring? And to finish that point, I would also like to consider for you guys to consider and Mr. Skipper to consider a golf trail, a golf cart trail, because many of us that love to Have our yetis and our golf carts so that Mr.. Nick doesn't keep getting cops pulling us over on all golf carts We would really appreciate it if you guys would give us an extra sidewalk on the opposite road one for the walkers and one for the golf carts I digress Well, I'm the Greg Williams that you mentioned earlier from

Chestnut Ridge, I've been on the board up there for close to 20 years, serving as president and on the president's council for Trace Crossings Residential Association. And Dr. DeFranco and I have been fighting this. I've talked to all of you on the council. We've been trying to correct the problem of the stormwater runoff for now 11 or 12 years. Pete is out of the country right now and he's not here to do it. I know one thing that we have asked and asked and asked the previous administration for support and what we can get together. I want to thank the mayor for coordinating this along with the council to take a look at it and to see what we can do. And I thank Charlie Walter for bringing some of this together. Christy, you've been great to try to help us. You pulled together Jimmy Stevens and pulled the staff to work with Jefferson County because they have property that's contributing to the runoff. It's amazing that we're to the point that we have a responsible developer that's willing to come in and fix this environmental issue that's been going on. And I think after you heard the things that Steve had to say about the sediment and how bad it is in the lake, it's more than just the pictures of where it washes in at the head of the lake. It has been filling it up like eight dump truck loads a year for years now. And we haven't been able to get any support. And I thank the mayor for getting involved in this. And I thank the council for taking a special look at this and working with the developer And Charlie, thank you for your support on this too. If there's anything else that we can do to help you, we're 100% behind it and I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Williams. This time, any further comments or questions from the public? Any from the council?

Yeah, I got just a statement. So Skip and Brian, and I know y'all are familiar with me. One comment... IF THIS WERE TO PASS, I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT, AND IT GOES TO ZONING EVALUATION, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. ONE ITEM I'M DEFINITELY GOING TO DO A LOT OF CHALLENGING ON IS THAT INTERSECTION PIECE OF IT. I CAN TELL YOU THAT RIGHT NOW. AND I KNOW PATRICK, FINALLY, HE'S BEEN IN ENGINEERING QUITE SOME TIME. AND JUST BE CLEAR, ALTHOUGH I DON'T LIVE In the area, all three of my kids attended the middle school there. Two of my kids graduated high school. My daughter did zero period, so I didn't have a bus unless that's changed now. But zero period, you got to take your kids until she learned how to drive approach. So I understand that functionality coming across that area. And Skipper, you've been around a long time, very reputable engineer. Looking at things such as... dead zone through times. I know many cities have protocol between the 7 to 8.30, the 3 to 4.30 time period that doesn't allow certain type of traffic through or left turn lanes through for that high peak inventory of traffic, especially on your weekday period. So those are some of the things I'll be IF SOMETHING OCCURS, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT IT AS WELL, TOO. THE SITE CIVIL LINE OF SITE, OF COURSE, IS EXTREMELY CRITICAL. IT IS BUS. that travel through there with three different schools in that particular area, Trace, Bumpers, and also the Hoover High, and also there's another second chance school there, plus the operational area that flows through that area. So just for warning, that will be probably one of my major talking points and challenges I'll be challenging extremely hard on.

We'll see Thank You mr. Murphy any further comments from council

Just briefly, Mr. President, just to reemphasize that point and clarify with Mr. Munger, who serves on the Planning and Zoning Commission, we will have an opportunity as a Planning and Zoning Commission and as a council to consider the road, the intersection, all of those aspects of the PUD along with the rest of the PUD at a future date. Is that right?

That's correct. And as is the case with all zoning actions, Planning Commission staff works on it. Planning Commission recommends. Council is the terminal step. So very likely we will be talking about this in great detail because we'll have more detail at that point. But as I mentioned, the development agreement does stipulate that expectation that The development that is brought forth, those detailed plans, things of that nature are in substantial conformance with what would be incorporated in one of the exhibits of that development agreement. But yes, it would come back to council after going through staff and planning commission.

And just to be clear, the council does not have to approve a road or have to approve an intersection there?

No, the agreement says that the council will work in good faith, and that means exercising your legislative authority to vet a proposal on its merits. But no, the council is not agreeing to anything explicitly. We're just simply saying that we will work in good faith towards these things, and we're going to work through legislation best practices of engineering, and if that somehow does not come to pass, I know Mr. Skipper's judgment has been talked about a lot here as far as being someone that's done a lot of studies on our behalf as well as others, but if at the end of the day, this does not work out for some reason or the council deems it, the Planning Commission doesn't think it's appropriate, that's something the council has the ability to consider.

Thank you. Mr. President, Mr. Massengill. Yes, sir. The number of years I've been on the council and these type of agreements that I've seen in the past, and the fact that I have my own large substantial bank renewal coming up this week as well. Is the bank requiring these incentives as part of your loan?

The notes are, you know, they're not requiring the incentives as part of the loan. They're not? It's not in the cabinet? The incentives are, let me look, we'll address you. Sure.

This is a good time for me to step in.

I want to thank my whole team. And there's certain special questions that they may not know the answer to because we sell finance. However, there will be bond financing because the city of Hoover is so credible and does have the population, the demographics, and the great people who do come to our center. we will be able to get bond financing, which is very, very low interest rate financing. This will not slow down our project. The incentives are what they bond finance. So we have projections for retail, just as we did on phase one, and we were able to secure a bond. on phase two, we're gonna do the same thing. But we're gonna start our work immediately. We're gonna seek to pull a permit this week so that we can get our plans in for everybody to review it, make sure that everything's ready to go. We wanna go as quickly as possible. We have secured money from the federal government, which was approved through Alabama, the state of Alabama's workforce. of $5,800,000 that wouldn't otherwise come to Hoover. But we spent two years getting that money and bringing it here. And if we can bring more money from the federal government for mine reclamations to fix old mines, we will. And so the incentives will be financed with bond financing because of the good, stable community and city that Hoover is. And so, yes, they will be relying on the incentives. That's where we get bond financing from.

Thanks, sir.

Mr. President, I asked Mr. Cage, before you leave, I want to clarify something about when you were talking about issuing bonds. Are you still anticipating using the cooperative district bonds that will not be backed up? by the city or by any of the city's credit at all. It's gonna be based upon the people who acquire these bonds are assuming that the sales are such because of the demographics of the city and past performance that there's nothing that backs that up other than their anticipation that those bonds are gonna be covered by these incentives. Is that correct?

The bond financers do look to the retail sales and they look at projections and they will look at the tenants that we have leases with and that we have plans, but they are able to look at that land and with the money that's already been secured and with the money that will come from incentives, they develop a comfort level and they are relying definitely relying on the great track record of the city of Hoover. They're not relying upon the credit

worthiness of the city of Hoover? They actually are.

In what respect? You're not doing municipal bonds and the city is not going to have any financial obligation towards those bonds.

No, the city is not. That's what I wanted to clarify. I understand how people get confused. The money comes from the sales tax. The city is not obligated to pay the bonds in any way whatsoever. However, the credit of a city is taken into effect, is taken into account because they want to know this is a city that will deliver, that will actually collect the sales tax, will actually remit the sales tax. So in that respect, they do rely upon the city, but the city is not responsible to pay back any of these bonds. That's what I want to declare. I'm sorry for the confusion. Not a problem. It's on me.

Very good. Any further questions? Mr. Dickerson, if you will, call the roll on this vote, please. We do not have a motion yet? Oh, I'm sorry.

Mr. McClanton? Mr. President, I move to approve resolution number 8886-26.

Second again.

We have a motion and a second. We will close the public hearing now. Mr. Dickerson, if you will call the roll, please.

Council Pro Tem Driver. Aye. Council Member Schultz.

Aye.

Council Member Smith.

Aye.

Council Member Lovell. Aye. Council Member Murphy.

Aye.

Council Member McClinton.

Aye.

Council President Middlebrooks.

Aye. With seven ayes, it is unanimously approved. Moving on for immediate consideration of Ordinance Number 262707. Mr. Walter. Aye.

This is an ordinance that amends Chapter 2, Article 1, Section 2 of the Municipal Code of the City of Hoover.

Mr. President, I move to adopt Ordinance Number 26-2707.

Mr. President, does this require suspending the rules?

It does.

Oh, sorry.

I got to say that? Okay. I move to suspend the rules. Sorry. Second. Second.

Okay, normally an ordinance takes two readings. However, this is for a time change for a part board meeting that is needed before the next two weeks. So we are going to vote to suspend the rules and consider this tonight. So, Mr. Dickerson, if you will call the roll, it takes a unanimous vote of council to suspend the rules.

Council Pro Tem Driver. Aye. Council Member Schultz.

Aye.

Council Member Smith.

Aye.

Council Member Lovell. Aye. Council Member Murphy.

Aye.

Council Member McClinton.

Aye.

Council President Middlebrooks.

Aye. With seven ayes, we'll move on for the consideration of Ordinance Number 262707. Mr. McClinton, I'll take another motion. I got to say it again?

Got to say it again. OK. Mr. President, I'm going to adopt Ordinance Number 26-2707.

Second. I have a motion and a second for adoption. Any comments or questions from the council? Any from the audience? Hearing none, Ms. Dickerson, if you'll call the roll, please.

Council Pro Tem Driver? Aye. Council Member Schultz?

Aye.

Council Member Smith? Aye. Council Member Lovell? Aye. Council Member Murphy?

Aye.

Council Member McClinton?

Aye.

Council President Middlebrooks?

Aye. With seven ayes, it is adopted. Next, we'll have a first reading for Ordinance 262708, Mr. Waldron.

This is an ordinance that will alter, rearrange, or extend the corporate limits of the city to embrace and include property that's contiguous to the city located at 1904 Mayflower Drive.

Very good. We'll have a second reading and vote on that at the next council meeting. This ends the business portion of the meeting. I'll open the floor for council comment.

Mr. President, real quick.

Mr. Smith.

I've got to have my moments. I've got to have my moments. The mayor talked about 4th on the 1st, but he neglected to talk about the Guinness World Record of opening Coca-Cola cans all at the same time. It was what, 2,287? 2,487? It was a lot.

Very good. Any other council comments? Questions?

Casey, I would like to... There's a young lady here who's been waiting patiently. She brought something for the mayor with her dad here for tonight, and I think it speaks volumes of her that she has sat here all evening. All right. And I think we should give her a minute to... I believe she's got a card from the mayor.

Very good.

Mr. President, that is Mr. Mayor's birthday today, so...

Mr. President, that is Pastor Brown's daughter, Abigail.

All right. Let's get a picture of Miss Abigail.

She has been a model.

So good. It's been a pleasure sitting next to you.

All right.

With Miss Abigail, given that we are now...