Planning Commission - public_hearing

Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. We'll get started then. Um, thank you everyone for coming. Um, this is our public meeting to talk about our 17th street bike lane demo project. Um, it'll be on 17th street from Plasmon to Columbia. Uh, and we'll be, we'll have it up for a couple of weeks. Um, we'll have it. We'll, we'll, we'll get through it as we, as we go through. To start off, I'm Ryan. I'm with the city transportation. Brian is over there somewhere. He's with the city also, transportation services. And then we have one of our interns here, Yanisa. She's back there. So she's been working with us on this as well. We'll go through the PowerPoint. We'll go through project limits. We'll go through details showing kind of like typical cross sections existing and proposed. And then we'll go through the schedule and then we'll have some question and answer at the end. So this is just an overview of the limits. Plasmon to Columbia will have bike lanes on both sides of the street or bike facilities on both sides of the street. 10-foot travel lanes, so we'll be a little bit narrower than we currently are. We'll have on-street bike lanes. The bike lanes will be on the south side continuously, and then sharrows will be on the north side where the road isn't wide enough to have a continuous bike lane. And we're also going to try and maximize parking, especially where we have those pocket parking spots currently, both because That's where the parking has been utilized, and also because having the bike lane, I guess, kind of go in and out doesn't work as well as just putting the sharrows in there. Project schedule. We'll start setting up stuff on July 6th. That's that Monday after the 4th, but then we'll install the temp tape and all the signage on July 8th, and then takedown will be July 22nd. So when that prep happens, you'll probably see some no parking go up. You'll maybe see some signs laying down everywhere, but the no parking won't be in effect until July 8th, if there is any there. So our cross sections existing from river to the east were pretty much just 31 feet wide. There's not really any designated parking or center line there for the most part. from river to the west, we have a lot of spots where they have that seven foot parking bump out and then we have like a 12 foot travel lane. So what we're proposing, I have it listed out which streets is gonna be for what section, but for where we have those pocket parking sections, we're gonna try and keep the parking and have parking And then in that first bike lane going to the west, we'll have sharrows. So that's how that will be maintained. And then the east side, we'll have an actual four-foot bike lane. And then where we don't have parking, we'll have bike lanes on either side of the road. This is just an aerial.

I can go over.

You'll see on the aerial, we have sharrows shown. We have bike lane signs shown. And then also you can see kind of what the revised lineage will look like. And we have a printout over on that table over there that you can feel free to look at after. But this is just so the people, anyone who's online can kind of see a general idea of what it would look like. So this is this first westernmost piece. Then we have from Cleveland to Washington. The red on the plans is where people will be able to park still. And then yellow is going to be where the center line is. And then white will be just your edge line for the bike lanes. Then we have Washington to River. And then River to Columbia. This is an example of what the posters will look like while the bike lanes are up. So we'll have just these up kind of in the green space kind of like I think they're four by four or three by three. And there's just so people, bikers can scan them, put in feedback, homeowners can scan them, put in feedback, or you can scan the QR code on your postcard and just let us know what you're thinking, what you like, what you don't like, how you feel about it, basically. So next steps, question and answer, one-on-one, and feedback during the demo. So open to questions. Yep.

You said push the button? Okay, that's it. So can you give us some definitions? What's a share role? You also talked about the width of the road, which I assume you mean for traffic.

Yep.

And then you also talked about parking, bump out kind of things. Can you go over those three things for people that don't know?

Yep. So... So your bump out is going to be where, I guess we'll start with the lane width. So your lane width is going to be the width of the lane where vehicles drive. So typically that's from 10 feet to 12 feet wide. Your parking bump out is going to be where on this page you can see from Washington to Maple. From Washington to Maple, you have those bump outs at either intersection where the road seems a little narrower. And then once you get into the middle of the block, the road widens for parking. So that's your parking bump out. And what was your third question?

Sherrill.

Sherrill, right. So Sherrill is... Are these marks on the plan with the biker with the two arrows on top of it? And that's just a designated symbol showing drivers and bikers that they're meant to share that travel lane because it's not wide enough to have an actual bike lane there.

Yes. Is there research about the safety of those types of constructions?

Like have we done research?

Is there data that talks about the safety of when a bike is going in and out of a car wing? That's what you're describing, isn't it?

For the Shero? Yeah. They're not going to be weaving in and out. They're just going to be... Basically, they're treated as another vehicle, so you're sharing the road with them.

So that's what I'm asking. Do you have data about where those exist in other places, about the safety of those?

They're a commonly used symbol that's accepted nationwide.

Okay, it's not the symbol I'm concerned about. It's the safety factor. Okay.

Hi, Deb. I'm a resident biker, and this is very similar to Central Avenue when it shifts from 12th Street north, so next to Centennial Park. It goes from a dedicated bike lane on both left and right side of the road to a share the road situation. Um, I love bike infrastructure. I want to see a lot more of it. I also bike these areas a lot and with my kids, I don't find it any more safer than going to the sidewalk. Um, so, so that's, that's my question. That's my feedback and comment. I love bike infrastructure. I want to see more. I can't wait till we can do some dedicated bike lanes.

Yeah. Yeah, so the road as is, it wouldn't be wide enough to have dedicated bike lanes on both sides, so that's why we're using these, especially for just a demonstration project. We're mostly looking for feedback here and trying to see how bikers like the project or like the layout.

Okay, so I have another question.

Can I, ma'am, before you go to the next question, in regard to Sheroes, It's a commonly used method, if you will, that's been employed in a number of different cities, not only Holland. We have them in Holland in a few different spots. But it's just an accepted pavement marking that designates that the biker and the vehicular traffic share that space, basically, which would normally happen if there wasn't anything there. So.

OK. I get that it's a marker and it's used, but I'm interested in the safety of it. Do drivers know that? Do drivers get trained when they go in and get their license so they know what a Shero is? I mean, I've been driving for years. I've never heard of a Shero. I've certainly driven them. I've driven down Central. But yeah, I was more interested in some overall data Okay, so regarding safety, like are there accident records or non-accident records where they have these?

We don't have accident records or non-accident records of sharrows.

Okay. And then my other question is, of the streets that you're doing, 17th, that has these bump-outs, I know there are streets in Holland that don't have bump-outs. I'm wondering why you chose a street with bump-outs to be east-west corridor for bikes.

So 17th Street, we're hoping to be looked at as something that we would implement bike lanes on in the future. And we have current bike lanes on South Shore that end right at 17th, and then we have north-south bike lanes towards the eastern part of town. Columbia is one example. So it would be nice for us to be able to link that bike lane from South Shore and get to Columbia and let people have that dedicated infrastructure to get there.

It's also U.S. Bike Route 35.

So is the Sherrill, like on Central, where it says bikes may use the whole lane, is that an example of a Sherrill?

Yep.

So if we had Sherrills that were permanent, there would be a sign that said bicycles may use the whole lane, correct?

Yeah. We're not intending the permanent fix to have Sherrills. They'll have dedicated bike lanes.

Okay.

But what we're doing is we're trying to work with the constraints that we have within the space that we have to do the best we can to demonstrate, if you will, what it may feel like, look like in the future. It's not perfect. We have to use some of the sharrows in place of dedicated bike lanes because we're constrained with the existing cross-section.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, that's what we're trying to do.

I kind of feel like it's kind of unsafe, like the one in the Black River.

You have a harsh, harsh...

So like if there was at least this much of lines. I have a picture, actually. I just feel like it's very close, the vehicle compared to the flight lane. Safety-wise is what I was looking at. And also the road on 17th, that it's very narrow, so. So see how there's a little bit of lines there, so it's safety for the biker.

Here, everything is just so close together.

I don't feel like it's very safe.

Yeah, and we're dealing with the room that we have available to us. Obviously, in certain instances, we may have more room right where we can do something like that. In this particular case, we don't. So it's a temporary demonstration project that we're going to be using the tools that we have available to us, as well as the, again, legally accepted... symbols and signage and everything like that to try and do a demonstration of it for a short period of time so and it's really no different right a bicyclist has the ability to drive the roadway the same as a vehicle does right there's no difference here okay no no we want to maintain the car parking areas yes Now, in the future, if we move ahead in the future at some point with 17th Street, the curb lines, all the alignment would change so that there would be dedicated bike spaces, if you will, and parking spaces that fit within the new aligned road. But right now, we're just trying to demonstrate the project for a short period of time to get a feel for what input people have on it to try and inform what we may or may not do in the future with 17th Street. And incidentally, we're doing two this year. We're going to do one on 17th Street. Again, U.S. Bike Route 35 goes through here. It's already signed for that. And there's plenty of connectivity with north-south existing bike lanes on 17th Street. But we're also looking at 22nd Street. So a few weeks from now, we're going to go through this again with 22nd Street. That does not have the in-and-out curb alignments like 17th Street, right? So there'll be a little bit more flexibility with that road, just because current conditions of that road allow us to do a little bit more than what we're doing on 17th Street.

I feel like that road is not so big to share. I just feel like it's not safe.

Yeah. Again, a bicyclist currently could be out on 17th Street driving that, you know, riding that roadway, whether there's a symbol or not. So... We're just trying to heighten this, right, and encourage some bicycle traffic, get a feel for what it may look like if we were to put the dedicateds in. Okay, I ride 17th Street often just now, so. On a bike?

On a bike. Okay. Lots of times, because I live on 17th.

But what do you hope that the demonstration is going to show? What is your goal? The amount of traffic?

Sure, so we're gonna be monitoring the volume, right? But then we're also gonna be soliciting input, right? So there's gonna be signs. Ryan, do you wanna go back to that slide that has the signs? Yeah, so there's gonna be these out along the route, right? For motorists or bicyclists or pedestrians, whoever wants to comment. they can scan that QR code and provide comments into the city. The postcards that you all received also have that same QR code, and we would encourage folks just to provide input, both good and bad, for the demonstration project and what we may be able to do in the future with the route. OK. You want to go up to the mic?

Are you guys also considering any other traffic calming procedures with this in addition to potentially bike lanes? Because I feel like 17th Street becomes like a drag strip sometimes. Sure. And I understand the concern with what you're currently working with, but I do hear outstanding feedback. We love the bike lanes because I do feel like I'm a homeowner on 17th, and I feel there are a ton of bikers that use the sidewalk, road, wherever it may be, especially now that we're in the summer. But I do just worry that maybe we should open up to other traffic calling measures. Sure. Which may come from the survey in the future.

Yeah, and certainly when we look at a reconstructive 17th Street, we're going to be looking at the whole corridor. We're going to be looking at all modes of traffic, not just bikes. And that includes traffic calming, that sort of thing, that kind of comes part and parcel with that. So there's a few different tools we have in the toolbox, right? And we would certainly evaluate all of those. The other thing that I want to share with you is if and when we get to that point where we're looking at a project on 17th Street. This is just a demonstration to solicit some input. As we get further down the road and we look at 17th Street, we'll come back. and have a public meeting. Typically we have two of them where we do the same thing where we send out public flyers to everyone before we finalize the design of the plan, solicit that feedback, and then go through that process and design it. So there'll be a whole nother process as we get closer to actually building what would be 17th Street in the future. Yeah, so it's not short-term. I'll tell you that. So it's not like a year or two sort of a thing. But, yeah, I would say earliest would be like four, five, six years from now.

I would say it's a homeowner's 17th. You can take away that little right-of-way between the sidewalk and the curb line, right? That's just a weed barrier for me.

Got it. Wow. I don't know we'll do that, but yeah, duly noted.

Second question.

You want to get up to the mic, too, please.

The paint markings, are they going to be just like tape on the ground? Are they actually paint? And then when you go to remove it, are you going to grind them off, or are you just going to paint over them?

So we are planning on using black removable tape to cover up the current markings, and then we'll use yellow tape to put down new markings. At some spots where we have long line for the white lane lines, for the bike lanes, we'll use some temporary paint, but that should come off. It'll wear away. Okay.

Thank you.

Yep. Anything else is there anything online?

Yeah, so let me just see here Yeah, I'm not seeing any questions per se I Anything else from the general public? So we'll intend to stick around here, and there's some things that are printed out there on the table. And certainly if there's any folks in the chat that want to put a question or comment in there, please go ahead and do so, and we'll continue to monitor that. But not really seeing anything at this point. So thanks, everybody.

Thank you. All right.

Amen.