Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

We'll go ahead and get started.

We have Amanda leading us in the pledge. Okay, thank you. We have a full quorum.

Are there any conflicts of interest?

Okay, seeing none, approval of minutes for the June 3rd meeting.

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of the June 3rd meeting. I'll second.

We have a motion by Forrest, a second by Darrell. All in favor?

Aye.

Okay, thank you. 4.1 review consider conditional use permit for the Haven Events Center.

Alright, perfect. So we'll be talking about the Haven Event Center conditional use.

So our subject property is on the north boundary line of Harriman. It should be noted this is not next to the game Haven. I know the names are very similar. We've had that internally as well, but this is in Teton commercial. This is a better example. There are 2 buildings currently building 1 is closer to the street building 2 is set inside the property and that is where haven event center is looking to go. This is the shell that was already approved. These are the elevations for what's there. Just to get in the mindset of kind of what this area is looking like. This is an example of the floor plan that we'll be looking at. So as you can see to the right side are a bride and groom's room with restrooms and then a smaller event space as well in the front called the Cove. On the other side, we have what will be the kind of game board cafe. There are restrooms and a small kitchen there as well. That middle space that's open will also be used for events. For example, that's where the wedding would take place for the bride and groom's room. So as we discussed in our work meeting, the parking is kind of the main concern with this area. On the website, it looks like 300 occupants are listed for the area. However, we did just receive some new documentation with our building department that shows 553 occupants. So this is where it starts to get a little bit tricky. We did our MDA this area does allow a parking study to decrease the number of stalls that are needed however in the original parking study that we had submitted they were looking at a recreation other use which produced 19 stalls needed however this is that conference and reception center parking which is three spaces for every 100 square feet of floor area used for assembly um I took that floor plan you just saw and essentially took out restrooms and storage areas. And for 4,483 square feet of assembly area, we will need roughly 134 parking spaces for this use. The current parking lot that you see has 50 stalls in it. Across the way in building one for those retail businesses, we are looking at roughly 30 to 32 parking stalls needed to park that area. We are currently expecting an updated parking study with that corrected use to help determine how many stalls will actually be needed. These are our recommendations. I did want to bring up, you asked about the hours during peak hours for the different businesses. It looks like there is currently only one business that is a finished tenant and building one that will be open past 5 p.m. It's a nail salon, and it looks like it'll be open until 9 p.m., which would be the only direct conflicting parking for this business after the traditional business hours.

Sorry, what was that business again?

There's currently a nail salon that is a finished TI across the way, open until 9 p.m. which is the only other business that is currently finished that would be operating within the same evening hours. Perfect. As you can see, the condition of approval highlighted at the bottom was added by our community development director in the staff report. It just was not translated to that top part of the staff report where these conditions live. If you have any questions or concerns, I'm happy to answer. And we do also have the applicant here as well.

I have a very minute question. The nail salon, do you know how many, I guess, booths that they have within the business?

When you calculated the amount of people, the 553 people, were you calculating the assembly rooms, and not the hallways. Because looking at the plan, there's a lot of secondary spaces and hallways and things like that, that wouldn't be used for assembly. And so I'm just wondering if you used rooms that were meeting room, it was just a rough estimate. So I just based on overall square footage.

Yeah, I pulled out restrooms and storage rooms. Okay. 4430. 483. So whatever that number was, so that did include hallways and stuff. So I understand it's not right, the best.

But that parking study will provide Yeah, no, I mean, I'm just looking at that, like the plan itself of the building, the layout, it's just, there's no way you're gonna get 500 people that within that the occupants did not come from us.

That was from the applicant on a building permit document. Okay, so they can probably answer that better than I can.

Yeah, turn it over to the African. Yes, perfect. And we'll ask you when it's your turn to come up.

Any other questions for me?

So when they revise the study, I know you don't have exact numbers, but are you anticipating it going down the count?

It's possible that the count would go down from the city requirement. However, I don't expect it to go below the available 50, especially with other commercial uses that will be open. On weekends, for example, the event center opens at 7 a.m. versus kind of that 5 p.m. timeline. So that would be peak hours for the nail salon, for example. A weekend day would be pretty busy. So I don't anticipate it going under the 50 that is currently available.

So within the platted area of Teton, is there availability to put in surplus parking, additional parking?

So this would have to be worked out with the developer, of course. There are currently two other lots that border this one on the east and west sides that are the same size. And then there is a much larger lot that is beneath all three. It's hard to see if you look under the writing. there's you can see kind of the square that is the same as this developed one. So that is a potential like you were saying that number four that was added in by our community development director is directing this use to have that additional parking available within Teton commercial. Which would be possible on those undeveloped lots. Just working with the developer to do that.

Do we know if it's possible? I think we talked about this a little bit before, but on those undeveloped lots, doing some kind of gravel or some kind of improvement for parking that's not permanent but usable?

So we don't currently have any provisions for that in our code. We do currently allow temporary parking for temporary uses. However, those are only a 30-day period. Typically, we can see them extend past that by a little bit. For example, we have our firework stands Um, that are up for essentially like a month and 3 days kind of thing. Um, once a year versus typically it's up to 30 days for 4 times a year. All right, I'll go ahead and let the applicant take the mic.

Thank you. If the applicant wants to come forward and state their name.

since I'm the one that has to pay for it all, I guess. I first, I'll address the whole thing with, as far as people, if you could state your name. Christopher V. Wager. Yeah. We don't ever anticipate having 500 people in that building. There's no way we could. We're looking at probably an event center that would fit at most maybe 350 people, if that makes sense. And even at that, it could be more of a rotational kind of thing. I don't know if any of you, when you go to events or wedding receptions, it's usually kind of a revolving door as they come in and out on there. Do any of you have any questions about that I can answer as far as the building, the facility, like what our plan is?

Do you already have cross-access agreements in place with your neighbors?

We do.

You're one of the neighbors.

I represent the landlord and we own the adjacent lots.

Do you mind stating your name too? Sorry.

Sven Nielsen. And I represent the landlord and we own the adjacent lots to the east and the west. And part of the whole master plan community is we eventually will get additional parking also on that larger piece that Lauren had mentioned as well. That's just to the south of us. I think there's like a hundred eventually once they do something there, which we don't control. To answer just Brody, I think you mentioned gravel. We have actually done that just on the lot three, which would be the lot just to the east. I have it kind of drawn out on this. If anybody would like to see it, I don't, I couldn't email it. So I just grabbed it real quick. If anybody would like to see, we put gravel down just in case, cause we thought that's a good potential. The plans for the, the, furthering development is to build on lot one which would be the lot to the west and that would increase the parking there and so we thought we could put temporary down on the lot three which is the one on the east if we needed to add more with by doing some gravel and then as we build out lot one we'll add additional parking and then we'd move that kind of would move over there and then we'd fill it finish out lot three that's kind of our plans okay do you know that

approximate timing of all this i'm just thinking you mentioned 300 350 possibility of having that many people with 50 parking stalls um and you're going to do it so uh do you have a sequence or i mean i could have the temporary like gravel down i mean i would really have that gravel down we kind of put that down in anticipation that that would be a good fix for the problem if it were to arise and so i could have that done in

I would literally just have to add one egress out of there. And that's, yeah.

I mean, I think our one problem is we talked about is that's a temporary solution, right? And trying to figure out it's kind of, it is temporary, but it's in the middle between permanent and temporary.

The idea would be it's temporary as we work. So basically once we're done with this, this development, as we're finishing up now, we'll then move to lot one. And so all that would be coming in the next few months.

I guess. Our concern is without having it protected, releasing your conditional use basically limits other commercial and all the other areas. So for me, I think we need you to address the parking as a whole, what the maximum number is, address it. I think actually it's an awesome use. Too bad you guys aren't like, my daughter gets married in September, so too bad you're not a little faster. But been doing this kind of stuff recently a lot. But the issue for me is just parking. We need to see the plan, show us how you're going to mitigate it with the master development, how parking will be mitigated. Our current ordinance does not allow park temporary. So we need it to be permanent and we need to see how that's going to be mitigated. And if that's around the time that you're phasing all magically works out, the building is ready to turn over, then I think that's fine. But until we see, for at least my vote, until I see it, A lot of the lines aligning, the parking study had a lot of issues and concerns that it's not using the right type of use. Just marry all that up, bring it back in. So I kind of think we need to continue until we address the parking. But related to the actual what you're bringing, I think it's awesome. It's just we need to make sure it's parked well, especially these type of event centers. Again, speaking from experience, that is the number one detriment to the other community area. And so we just need to make sure that's been aligned.

So, as discussed in our work meeting, this was the gravel parking solution was brought up previously to 1 of our planners, and we just don't have anything in the code to do that. Additionally, in order to do it, we would need to get a land disturbance permit through engineering. If you're doing any kind of gravel or entrances and exits from any of the lots.

And I'm going to squash the temporary. If you're going for an awesome venue, which I'm sure this is going to be, I think the last of what we want to worry about is people walking through the mud and the gravel. So I think it needs to be a permanent solution is what I'm going to propose.

Commissioner, just for the record, there is a possibility of allowing a temporary parking lot. The problem is the duration. I mean, we don't have the ability to have an open-ended temporary permit. So

that makes sense i mean that concern could be i mean not i'm sure that's not the plan but let's say another financial crisis hits things go south developers disappear right and then all of a sudden we're stuck with a beautiful event center that has looks like a very long-term solution of temporary parking and that's not something that from a city planning perspective is going to work out i mean i think the idea around the temporary would

was just to suffice for now, but it would never actually be used because he's still months away from the process of building out the said event center. And we would be moving along with the permanent parking at the same timeframe that he's doing that.

And that's where I'm wondering if maybe the city can get together with you and figure out a way to ensure that if that time does take longer, that you're protected as a business, which we have to look at this as your conditional use needs to be protected with perpetuity. So again, I don't think anyone's saying no. I think we need to have you show us how that's going to be and how it's going to protect this use before we can approve this use. That's at least my opinion.

I would just like to add also, we were discussing the number of occupants and talking about how 350 is potentially more realistic. We have several documents with our building department currently that do say over 500. And in our conditional use statement for this application, it does also state over 500.

So those would have to be all that. What we can just say is all that just needs to be aligned. And then I don't think this is a deal like you guys come up with whatever the right number is. And then make sure it's parked adequately permanent parking and a plan. And then maybe we can worry about trying to approve anything.

And the right study does support the parking for the 350 or whatever you're saying.

Yeah, sorry. My name's Misty. I'm the designer on the project. And we will obviously make sure that we're making all this stuff blend in with what you're talking about, the additional requests. But definitely the floor plan that was shown didn't really help explain it very well. A lot of the different spaces are storage or preparation areas for X, Y, or Z. So really the 350 is the max that we will have, which is why in our paperwork we turned in, we were only based on all the math that we were aware of doing, that it was like 50 or 53 spots needed total. And then just to give you a clarification, the building across the way from the event center, the other businesses is going to be a dental office and a daycare. And those ones are only going to run during standard business hours with a couple of employees. So they're not going to be using their standard parking most of the time.

And that's why I think you guys showing that in an awesome plan that you as the designer can actually show would make it so that then there's the comfortable understanding of what's going on. Assuming that comes close to the correct number, depending on whatever the number is.

I want 500 people. I'll pay. I want just tangent of a question.

So you,

I understand business models can change, but do you have plans of just simply being essentially a more of an evening type event center? You're not planning on being like corporate getaway type event center or that are happening during the day? Are you open to just all of that?

So what we are, there is a small portion, the cafe part, the board game cafe is just going to be a come and go in and out thing. And that will be all day long. but that's just to come in and get a drink, play a game, leave, you know, as far as that goes, as far as the main event center, it will be open to, you know, corporate business events, receptions, marketing content days, things like that. Daddy daughter dances, things like that. We were next to the high school. We've talked to the high school to, you know, maybe even cater some of their, like if they have a dance and we'll do a, a, like a buffet kind of thing that's catered over there, things like that. So it essentially can be open and utilized throughout the day. It'll mostly be used in the evening, though, the majority of it. If it's during the day and somebody's using it, you're talking probably, you know, like a real estate training or something like that would be in with a smaller number, a much smaller number. Almost all of our plans so far are all the evening events are the biggest events that we'll have.

And that's where I think just clarifying the numbers coming up with a plan to address all the parking concerns and then I'd be comfortable myself. So. With that, I'm ready to make a motion if no 1 else is just 1 last thing the parking study.

I wasn't aware was done based off just pure retail. Until yesterday, and so they are going to have a new 1 with things reconfigured by then a week.

Okay. Well, and I would hope. Sorry, excuse me, but you mentioned a couple different uses, so make sure that that parking study accommodates both the, you know, event center and the game center, whatever it may be, and the combinations of both so that, because I'm agreeing with, you know, with Adam on this, that, you know, without a thorough study, we can't, you know, there's nothing to approve here at this time. It's not, you know, it's not meeting the requirements for the city or anything like that, so. It sounds like you're about ready to continue the item, but, uh, anything else?

I was just going to say, yeah, kind of guidance for you guys update a parking study with the correct use. Right. And then like Adam said, according to the parking study, maybe it's less than what the city requires and you guys can, we can get there.

Yeah. That parking study will take, should take into account the actual use of the area, right? All the extra areas and things like that. So make sure that that study, uh, addresses all of the appropriate use and then the extra ancillary. And then areas are not included so that you get a true count of what that parking space will be.

In the spirit of being open and honest, from at least my perspective, if the parking center says you need a certain amount of parking stalls, they need to be a permanent number of parking stalls. So just be aware of that. And that's what will need to be addressed before we go forward.

So you're saying to basically whatever that says to plant, have a plan for how to address that.

Correct. If the plan says you need to have 300, I'm going crazy now, 300 parking stalls. We need to see where those 300 parking stalls are before the occupancy of your, your business.

And it could be cross easement access. Like, you know, there's other how you're addressing all of those things. Yeah. Right.

And then you're going to solidify whatever actual numbers you need to have. So, so yeah, with that, Uh, I'm going to make a motion to continue item 4.1 without date. And I'm doing that. So if you guys can't make it by next meeting, it's up to you guys, but please come prepared and work with staff to address the parking issue. I'll second.

Okay. We have a motion by Adam, a second by Brody, uh, Andy.

Yes.

Daryl. Yes. Adam.

Yes.

Preston.

Yes.

Forest.

Yes.

And Brody.

Yes.

Okay.

And we are excited.

Thank you. Yes. Please understand.

Yes. We're all happy about the event center for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Okay. Item 4.2, review and consider a conditional use permit for a commercial monument sign at Lifetime.

Good evening. I'll be presenting item 4.2, the conditional use for the planned monument signs at the Lifetime Athletic Club. So here's just a quick vicinity map to acquaint you with the location of the property within the city. So this is kind of the overall site plan of the Lifetimes site, kind of noted here in the two stars are the two locations for the proposed monument signs. Just to kind of zoom in so that you guys can see the relationship to a sign that's labeled F1 and then the sign that's labeled F2 just as they stand in their proposed locations and the proximity to the driveways, the access points, the site triangles. They're well outside of those and are not placed within easements within the parcel. So just some background sign. The sign as it has been proposed to stand at six feet and four inches tall, including the cap. It is proposed at about approximately 68 square feet. It is a stone clad base and then does have backlit letters. And then this is also the design of the sign. Okay, so the staff findings is that this sign is close to meeting the requirements for the C2 sign standards. So just to flip back so that we can walk through those. It is just a little bit over on the height in our typical interpretation of the six feet maxing out, including the cap. And then it is just a touch over that 65 foot allowable maximum square footage per code. As far as the conditional use standards go, it was within reason to meet all the additional requirements and the engineering did review the application. They didn't have any concerns with the locations of the signs or any of the design. So staff does recommend that we approve with the following four conditions. The first just being to acknowledge and address all recommendations from other agencies. And then to submit any public utility easement waivers if the monument signs location were to be adjusted and to impact any of the utility easements that are near some of those access drives. And that the signs, of course, are not to be placed within a site triangle of any street or drive approach. As they've been proposed, they are not. And then the size of the monument size to be modified slightly so that it meets that six foot maximum height requirement. And then that 65 square foot maximum allowance. Are there any questions that I can answer for you all this evening?

Thank you, I think we have a representative of applicant here. If they want to add anything, just please state your name.

Good evening, my name is Eric Cheney. I'm with Yesco Young Electric Sign Company, so just here to answer any questions that you guys may have for me.

Any concerns with these conditions? That's there reducing it.

Those are all will fix that pretty quickly. Perfect thank you.

With that I would make a motion to approve item 4.2 with staff for recommendations.

Motion by a second by Preston Brody. Yes, Boris. Yes, Preston. Yes, Adam. Yes, Daryl. Yes, and Andy. Yes, OK. Thank you. Any commission comments?

I would like to make a formal request to review all commercial parking in the city so that we can come up with a suggestion number. Codes, not codes. The codes and a recommendation outcome.

Okay, thank you.

All right, our future meetings.

The next planning commission meeting is August 5th and the next city council meeting will be August 12th. Motion to adjourn.

Who was the first? I don't know.

All in favor? Aye. Thank you.