Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. Id like to call the December 2nd, 2025 regular planning commission meeting to order. Please note this mean this meeting is being hosted through live stream on the city website and by teleconference via Zoom. I want to remind the planning commissioners to have their microphones turned on and positioned so the audience can hear. Director Monnique, may we have roll call, please? Commissioner Worth here. Commissioner Ver Montes here. Commissioner Hill is absent with notice. Commissioner Barona here. Chair Beamster here. Commissioner Viamontes, could we do invocation flag, please? Yeah. Invocation first.

Heavenly Father, we ask for your guidance as we gather to make decisions in our community. Grant us clarity, wisdom, and fairness in all discussions. Help us work together with respect and purpose for the good of all residents. Amen. Pledge of Allegiance.

Ready? Begin. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Can we get a report from staff on item 4? Yes. Uh, good evening, chair and members of the commission. I am Jordan Walton, associate planner and planning commission uh, secretary, and I'll provide tonight's a brief report of the selection of a chair and vice chair for 2026. Each year, a chair and vice chair are selected to serve a one-year term at the first planning commission meeting in December. for the selection of a chair. It would be appropriate for chair beam sturer beam sturfer to ask for nominations and the commission to entertain a motion and select a chair following following the vote. A similar nomination uh process should ens ensure ensue for the vice chair followed by a motion a second and roll call vote. Following that the conclusion of the votes, the chair may call a brief recess for the appointed chair and vice chair to take their seats and to follow staff to update the name plates. This is this is the conclusion of my report. I'm happy to answer any questions. Otherwise, the chair may call for nominations for chairperson for the for the commission.

Thank you, Jordan, for that. And the commission have a nomination for chair. I nominate Jacob Beams for chair. Second. That was a a motion uh made by seconded by Baram Montes and made by Commissioner. Sorry, it was it was Yeah. Opposite. Opposite. So I second it. Okay. So a motion made by Commissioner Viamontes, second by Commissioner Worth.

Uh may I have a roll call vote? Uh Commissioner Worth, yes. Commissioner Viamontes, yes. Commissioner Hill, Commissioner Hill's absent. Uh Commissioner Barona, yes. Chair beam sturfer. Yes. That motion passes four to zero. And now we'll be moving on to selecting uh nomination for vice chair. And if I can maybe nominate commissioner work just for being seasoned as a commissioner unless somebody else has

I second that motion. A motion made by sorry a motion made by Chair Beamsterfer and seconded by uh Commissioner Viamontes. Yep. Oh, may I have a roll call vote, please? Uh, Commissioner Worth I. Uh, Commissioner Viamontes. Yes. Commissioner Hills absent. Uh, Commissioner Barahana. Yes. and chair beam sturfer. Yes. And with that, we're going to go ahead and entertain a recess to allow some uh seat changing here.

Or you can sit. Hello. And with that, we're going to go ahead and resume the meeting. Agenda 5A is a public comment period for items not on the agenda. Are there any me members present that would like to comment on an item not on the agenda?

Yes, chair. We received public comment for Judith McFersonson with um Matt McFersonson donating his time to Judith McFersonson.

You approach podium. Thank you, Commission, and congratulation, Chairman Beamsdorfer and Vice Chairman John Worth. Um, I'm here tonight to place some comments on the public record. Um, regarding application of municipal code as a citizen and as a property owner, uh, we expect that municipal code when adopted as law, local law, is followed diligently and enforced evenly. A few years back, and I think Mr. Pap can maybe might might remember this. A few years back, uh, one of our tenants attempted to changed the usage of the property and building that we had leased to their company. Um, an unsavory, unethical staff member of the planning department accepted a conditional use permit amendment application from our tenant to change the usage. The property owner, my husband, the general partner of the of the partnership at that time was never asked permissioned nor notified. I found out about this change to the conditional use permit um on the last day in which I could legally file an appeal. The unsavory and unethical staff member refused to when I went to city hall refused to show me the file because I knew that a conditional use permit required many many steps in the algorithm.

And one of those was a notorized property owner consent affidavit of which I knew there was none because my husband had never been asked permission for this change of usage. And of course, he hadn't hadn't enacted a notorized property owner's consent affidavit. So when I showed up to city hall and I asked for that, I was refused. And thankfully later on in the afternoon when I reappeared to file the appeal which was over $100 to appeal this unlawful decision um I for the first time met Carol Kendrick who as I filed the appeal I asked her because the other staff member had gone home. I asked her if I could see the file or if she could, you know, she said, she told me no. So, I'm not going to just show it to you. I'm going to run a copy of it. It's right here. the copy of the application and in that application was a Xerox copy of a three or four year old notorized property owner's consent affidavit in which our tenant wrote his name on top of the Xerox copy as property owner. Now, he had employed this staff member's son was an employee of his at the time, and there was a lot of weird stuff going on. Anyway, after two hearings at the planning commission and thousands of dollars in attorney fees to overturn this unlawful action by the then community development director, we prevailed and it was adjudicated that with any use

of a property there, see there that it does require written consent of the property owner because we incurred the extra insurance thousands a month extra fees. Now, the reason I'm placing this on the record is that there have been some recent events in which there have been uses of our property without our consent and I just don't want to go down that road again. It's a very simple concept that use of a property requires the consent of the property owner and in the manner in which it's given. Now, some businesses think that, you know, it's one thing to go to city hall and in the matrix of of usage that a usage may be permissible by the municipal code, but to be permissible, there still has to be the permit with a city that allows that. And that permit cannot be issued without the initiation and the written consent of the property owner. That's in our constitution. Basically, that's what I want to place on the record. It seemed to be rearing its head again. Thank you.

Thank you, Judy. Next public comment. There are no further public comments. Okay. Any e comments?

There are no members of the public uh requesting to speak online. Okay. Thank you very much, Jordan. And we will now move on to the approval of the minutes. Does the commission have any discussion or concerns of the approval of the minutes? Otherwise, can I entertain a motion? I reviewed them. They look good. I motion to approve the minutes of the planning commission meeting November 18th, 2025. I second that motion. I have a motion by chair Commissioner Vera Montes, seconded by Commissioner Barona. I'll have a roll call vote, please. Commissioner Worth, I'm going to abstain.

Commissioner Vera Montes, yes. Uh, Commissioner Hill is absent. Uh, Commissioner Barro, yes. And Chair Beamster, yes. That vote passes uh three to zero with one abstain. Thank you. Next, we have agenda item 7A, receive and file the 2025 planning commission year-to-end summary of accomplishments. Are there Oh, before we ask for comments from staff, we have to see it first.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and commissioners. Emry Pap, deputy director of community development, presenting on behalf of staff. I wanted to take an opportunity today to do sort of a overview of the accomplishments of the planning commission for the last year. Uh you've actually had a few different commissioners uh set up there during the year. So, some of you participated in some of these and some of you did not. Uh but since January 21st of this year, the commission has seen 40 about 48 to 50 different items that you either approved, made recommendations on, received fi and filed or um made additional comment with some um possible uh feedback to the city council on ongoing items. Uh so you reviewed uh 16 minutes including the one from the November 18th meeting just now. Uh six receive and file items, five discussion action items, and 18 public hearing items. So I'm going to briefly go over some of those items right now. Uh in January, uh the public works division uh reported to you a beautifification uh street beautifification process for Sierra Dawn. uh you provided some comments and feedback for that. Uh the photos you see here are for a similar project done on State Street. Uh most of the repairs in Sierra Don have been completed now or many of them. Um and it looks much it looks much better. So thank you for your input. Uh also in January the Astra High Point apartments was scheduled for public hearing but that was continued. It was a conditional use permit and variance. Um again that the Aster High Point apartments uh were reviewed by the planning commission in February. That was also continued due to some questions uh related to the variance and some fire access. And then the Bread of Life Church which was occupying a I think two tenants

suites in a shopping center on East Florida Avenue. In March of 2025, you reviewed quite a few applications, including finalizing the Astra High Point Apartments and approving the conditional use print and variance for that project. Um, also the Freddy's uh custard and burger restaurant on West Florida Avenue, a modification to a drive-thru on West Florida Avenue across the street from um In-N-Out Burger where Long John Silvers used to be, and also um you provided some feedback regarding the general plan um progress report. In April of of this year, um you reviewed the SB8 SB1 street improvements. Those are funded by grants. Um there were four street segments that were part of that approval. Uh you also reviewed the and two ordinances, one for the high quality chain fencing in the commercial manufacturing zone and also for the outdoor electronic display billboards. And you also received a report from the community I mean economic development department regarding the commercial kitchen grant program in May of 2025. Uh you reviewed u a modification to a site development review for an Arco gas station and miniark on East Florida Avenue at Saboba. Uh there was a requirement from the AQMD to relocate the gas pumps. Uh so they had to do a modification that you reviewed and approved. And then you also received a report from the Western Riverside Council of Governments regarding economic and transportation planning issues in the region and in particular he sino Valley.

In June, you reviewed a conditional use permit and PCN for a type 20 alcohol license at the El Central, which is the fueling station near the Auto Mall. And also received a report regarding the capital improvement program for the fiscal year. In August, uh there was one item that came forth that was the Ramona Plaza tenative parcel map that was uh to segment out the existing shopping center. So each building would be in its own um would be on its own lot. Uh we're still working on that one, but uh it's should be coming forth for approval soon. And in September, the planning commission reviewed and approved the DSNER Farms administrative use permit. and the type 21 license for the grocery outlet. And in October, you reviewed and approved a tenative parcel map for the Freddy's and Quickquack uh car wash on West Florida Avenue. In November, we had quite a few items come before you, including the McDonald's on the go, which is a relatively new concept for McDonald's. This will only be the second or third location in California. Uh, it's primarily serving the people who use their app as opposed to approaching the drive-thru. Um you reviewed and and approved um an extension of time for the Laam which is a assisted living facility on Laam Avenue near the mall. Uh you received a report on the cannabis business permit process and the status update regarding that effort. And then

lastly, the Tracerto's West specific plan project, which includes an amendment to the specific plan, revisions to the tenative track map uh development agreement, site development review, and model home complex. And then later today, this evening, you'll be receiving a report uh regarding a proposed water and sewer rate structure increase. And I tried to throw together some statistics for you, but I wasn't able to get as many as I wanted to. I did have some some things here to note. Uh there were you've you've met 16 times out of 24 occurrences this year. You spent a total time in planning commission meetings officially on the clock of 18 hours 2 minutes and 41 seconds with the shortest meeting time being 40 minutes and 32 seconds and the longest meeting time being 2 hours 17 minutes and 57 seconds with an average meeting time of 1 hour 12 minutes and 10.73 seconds. So, we certainly appreciate your time and dedication in reviewing the agenda packets, going out and doing site visits, u spending your time away from families to be here at these meetings. Um besides the work that you've obviously done here at these meetings, you've spent countless hours um in joint sessions with the city council in ad hoc committee assignments, attendance at trainings and conferences, uh reviewing the agenda materials, and um and site visits. Uh you've been out to many of the sites for the public hearings that were that you've reviewed up and coming in 2026. We're going to keep you busy. Uh we already have a host of items that'll be coming forth soon. Uh some of these items include the Simpson elevate modernization plan, the VIA deos

tracertos tenative track map off of Warren Road uh near Stony Mountain, uh the Weston Park redesign, uh Cen Square, which is at the souththeast corner of Stson and Cton. Uh the RTA Wentworth facility, they have a grant. RTA has a grant to improve their facility there. Uh they have to be up and running by July 1st in order to receive those grant monies. So that will be coming forth to you very soon. Uh also, oh the proousing designation program, sorry, this is really small. U we're working on on bringing that forth. Uh it's an effort that needs to go in tandem with several other grant efforts we have going on. Um so we'll be bringing that forth soon. Uh a general plan reporting program and finally a multiple municipal code amendments and zoning text amendments. We have a dry erase board, makeshift dry erase board in our office that that last count had about 35 items on there that we need to get to. So we're going to be bringing those to you in bits and pieces throughout the year. So, thank you for a great 2025. You guys have been wonderful to work with. We really appreciate your feedback. The city council appreciates your feedback and recommendations to them as well. And just want to throw a couple of quick facts out to you. Um, in terms of the number of residential units that have gone through your um gone through your hands and eyes over the last year, you have either recommended, approved, or um recommended for you've either approved or recommended for approval um a total of 608 dwelling units. That includes 228 for rent apartments at the Astra High

Point site, 111 assisted living units at the Laam that was an extension of time and then 269 for sale single family homes in the Tracertos West specific plan area. And with that, that concludes my presentation. I'm very happy to answer any questions you may have. Well, thank you very much for that presentation and we're looking forward to next year. Uh, does the uh commission have any comments or questions for the presentation? I just have one question. Um, I know Emory, you've been around the planning commission, I think on the planning commission as well. Would you say this was a pretty successful year from a planning commission standpoint? Absolutely. Yeah.

You guys have have seen some pretty weighty projects. Next year you're going to So, we've broke broken you in. Next year you're going to see some very weighty issues and projects coming before you. There's a multitude of industrial projects that have been backlogged. I can't comment on the timing of any of those right now, but many of those will be coming forth during the next year. We have multiple residential projects. We have a lot of commercial projects. If if I would have had an opportunity to throw some statistics together, just in terms of the number of residential units that we have in the pipeline right now, we're looking in the thousands. Nice. That's cool. That's good to hear. Thank you. You're welcome. Commissioner

I don't have a com any comments. Thank you. Vice Chair Word.

Yeah, thank you for that report. Um uh year by the numbers so to speak. I guess I just a couple comments um a few years back when the planning commission uh changed to um assume the parks commission, the infrastructure commission, other commission. So like this is kind of like the catchall for for all the prior um commissions. It it it there's kind of two general points. One is um look forward to um you know the the all of the things that were stated from this last year were all really specific to the planning commission function. But, you know, as far as kind of opening up, bringing back the infra um elements with the infrastructure uh commission, elements with parks, um making sure that we have um which we appreciate Noah being being here um for this and oftentimes we do have um representation from from uh other departments, but if the planning commission is going to be the the the the only access prior um besides city council, we want to make sure we're getting a good representation from the city and that we uh from city staff and that we are um addressing um the intents and purposes of those other commissions. Um and then the only other thing is just uh I just want to reinforce um the appreciate uh the opportunity to be on the ad hoc committee for the um the facade improvement um program. I think that those types of of o opportunities for the commissioners to get engaged with staff, work with them outside of just the public hearing, um get out in the field, see what's going on, meet our our our um our residents and and businesses. I those types of of interactions I think are very valuable to provide maybe some context and purpose for what the commission is

intended to to do. So, I look forward to more of that. But um I'm surprised that we have it down to the 73 of a minute in terms of average time. That's pretty impressive. So, but thank you for that report, Emry. You're very welcome, sir.

Thank you for that presentation. Thank you, Deputy Director. Uh I do have a couple questions. So, um out of 24 meetings, eight were cancelled for the year, which is 33%. And I I think I know that not not that we can fill every meeting sometime, but I think it's really valuable to use some of that canceled meeting for possible maybe some training uh maybe some insight for any new new new upcoming developments or just just you know we do have some newer commissioners and and that's a good time to utilize that opportunity on those canceled meetings. Um joint sessions I I think we should have at least one a year. I mean that this year the only one we had was with the historical him theater which is exciting and it's fun to to see what's coming but I I think there's more important things to talk about on a joint session with council and planning commission together and it'll be nice to see a little bit more joint session meetings with the two panels. Um just a quick question on the Freddy's restaurant. What's the status on that? Is it in development or

they are in plan check? Okay. They from my last review of the plans, they are close to achieving getting their building permits issued. So I would expect to see construction in the first quarter of next year. Exciting. Okay. Good. Good. Uh let's see here. The AM Saboba that was just an extension of time, correct? Was that or are they in the plan check? I'm sorry. Which the amm on Saboba in Florida? That was a modification of the site development review. There was an issue with the AQMD and the proximity of the fuel pumps to residences. So, the fuel pumps needed to be relocated which caused the need for a re a mod modest redesign of the site

because that church across the street or the school that was across the street, I remember. Okay. And uh and and uh just one little other thing is we started here in the library in November of 2024. Do we have any end date um sunset date when we can go back into chambers? I do not, but we will certainly look into that and provide a report back to you at our next meeting. I can say that the parking lot surrounding the uh police that police station parking lot, the f the fencing has come down. Yeah, security fencing has come down. So, I don't expect it to take too much longer. I think they're still having some uh they're still doing some work internally on the electrical systems.

Okay. All right. With that, we'll just go ahead and uh perhaps uh our director of engineering might uh might have an update on that. I don't know if you want to chime in on that, Director Noah. We're excited to get in that new chamber. Well, unfortunately, I don't have a a set date or anything yet. Um the actual tenant improvements upstairs and a few things downstairs is wrapping up. They've been given a final punch list. Um however, the council chambers technology upgrade is is just starting. Um and so I'm not sure exactly how long that project's going to take. That is kind of being overseen by it. Um so that's the update that I have for you.

Can't wait. I can hear better. All right. With that, we're going to go ahead and receive and file the end of the year summary of the accomplishments. Um, we will move on to discussion. Do I need to gavvel that receive and file or just say receive and file? Just receive and file. Okay. And now we're going to move on to discussion item AA, the water and sewage rate studies. Can we get a report from director Noah? Are you going to do that?

I'm going to get it started off here. And good evening, chair, vice chair, and commissioners and colleagues. Uh, Noah Raalo, public works director. Um, so this evening you do get to put on your infrastructure commissioner hats. You'll be receiving a presentation of the findings of the city's water and sewer rate study, uh, which evaluates the current utility revenues, projected system needs, capital improvement requirements, and recommended rate adjustments to ensure the long-term financial sustainability of the system. So to walk you through the methodology, key assumptions and proposed rate structure, I would like to introduce you to Chris Fischer with Weldand Financial Services. Um Chris and his team have been working closely with uh city staff over the past several months to analyze system demands, operational costs, and infrastructure needs. And uh we'll provide an overview of the study as well as respond to any questions you may have. With that, I'll turn it over to Chris Fischer with Willan Financial Services.

Thank you, Noah. Good evening, chairman, vice chairman, and members of the commission. I'm Chris Fischer with Wildamp Financial Services and I'm going to walk through uh an overview of the process that we went through. Talk about some of the the ideas and and uh and considerations that we had going into the study, take a look at how things uh were before as a before picture. Um describe what we've done and then look at an after picture and then talk about the next steps that we'll be taking with the city council um beginning next week. So when we set off set out on this pro process um working with Noah and the staff, we established a a number of goals to kind of guide the the work as we went through. Um and the primary goal being to evaluate the financial health of the water and sewer utilities, um their ability to meet all their financial obligations, um have stable revenue for the next five years, um to uh based on a five-year financial plan that we developed. Um we want to ensure that we have funding for operations maintenance and near to your heart capital projects. Um we want to also ensure that there are adequate capital reserves um held for emergencies and to manage cash flow fluctuations and things like that. And then ultimately make recommendations for any adjustments to rates um that are based on the cost of service which is required under Cal California Proposition 218. Um, in addition to ensuring compliance with the cost of service uh components of Prop 18, we also need to make sure that we uh adhere to the procedural requirements, which uh I'll talk a little bit about. It means you have to conduct a public hearing and send out a notice and I'll describe that in a little bit more detail. So, some key uh drivers and considerations uh that that we discovered and discussed as we set out upon this work. Um, as with just about everything else in our everyday lives, the costs of operating utilities are increasing. Um, and things like equipment, supplies, power, chemicals, all of the things that you can think of

that are required um to operate the utilities. Um, and the the the cost of funding ongoing uh rehabilitation and repair of system components as they age and replacing aging components with new uh new components um and maintaining all of that critical infrastructure. uh those costs are going up as well and that's important to maintain all of that to continue providing uh quality service to your customers and residents. Um one thought that we wanted to remind everybody is that you cannot have a lowinccome discount rate within the structure of the rates um that violates the the requirements of proposition 218. Um if there is going to be a low-inccome rate, it has to be funded from some outside source whether they'll be through the general fund or some um unobligated and unrestricted source of revenue. Um just a a thought to have in mind because that question does frequently come up. Um and then one thing that that certainly had an impact on the recommendations was that the last rate adjustment for both utilities um was about six years ago. So as those costs have continued to go up each year um the rates have remained the same. And so as you might guess that gap between um the money you're bringing in and the money you're spending um gradually grows a little bit wider. So talk about the methodology kind of the process that we went through. So the the rate study methodology or or approach process is really built around answering three fundamental questions. One, how much revenue do we need? How much revenue is needed to operate the two utilities? Who is incurring the cost? Meaning which customers or which types of customers are are causing the utility to um incur costs and what do the rates need to be to generate the revenue that's required. So to figure out how much revenue is needed, we conduct a revenue sufficiency analysis, which is pretty much what it sounds like. How much revenue is going to be sufficient to meet all the financial obligations? and we use that as the basis to develop a 5-year financial plan. Um to to look at who's incurring the cost, we conduct a cost of service analysis where we allocate those costs out functionally to each group of customers um so that we can know which groups of customers are are causing those costs. And then finally, based on

that analysis, we develop the rates that'll that'll generate the the revenue needed. And the outcome, the desired outcome of that is to ensure that the rates that we recommend, the proposed rates uh meet that cost of service requirement as required by Prop 218 and that they uh they comply with the the 218 procedural requirements as well. So really the beginning and kind of the core of the process is that revenue sufficiency analysis I described. And so we take a look um through through a number of steps in those blue boxes um and make a determination of how much revenue could be generated with the rates if we didn't change anything. how much revenue can be generated under under existing rates. And then in the bottom green boxes, we take a look at how much revenue is actually needed. And we compare those two. And if there's a difference between how much revenue we could get out of the existing rates and what we need going forward, um then we recommend changes. And that's what we did. So um those revenue requirements are things like the operating and maintenance expenses. Um you don't have any debt, but it normally would include repayment of debt, um paying for capital projects, and uh maintaining reserves so that uh cash flow management and emergencies can be accounted for. So, here's what the kind of the before picture looks like. Across the top there, you see some dark blue bars and light blue bars. The dark blue bars representing the revenue and the light blue bars um the expenditures. And you see in the first three years, uh things are fine. The the dark blue bars are higher than the light blue bars declining. That black line representing your net result each year is declining just ever so slightly. Um and you'll notice a big change in year four. because the city has historically been selling water credits and that proc we're not sure yet whether that will continue. I don't know if you want to say any more about that. No, but we assume that it wouldn't um just for conservative sake. Um so in year four you see that revenue that dark blue bar drop down um fairly significantly. Now it's less than the expenditures. And so um that was one thing that really influenced the the recommendations and and the results of the analysis there. And then in the bottom left you see the number of days held in reserve. That's cash in reserve. Um you see the the dark

black line indicates the goal and that's 180 days we want to try and maintain six months worth of your operating costs in reserve and you see we start out just below that and then as capital project spending takes place over the five years and again this is without any changes. is as as if we didn't change the rates. Um the dark blue those dark blue bars rather um get smaller and smaller, meaning that cash balance and reserve is is dwindling by year four. It's um it's negative and then gets worse in year five. And really that the the primary function that there's about $12 million collectively over the next five years being spent on infrastructure projects. And so without any change in rates, that capital um spending will will drain that reserve and uh result in a negative balance. uh for the sewer utility the the picture is a little bit better. You see again the dark the dark blue bars and the light light blue bars and for the first three years uh results are positive and then they slip just barely negative in years four and five. Um and again similar to the water in the bottom left you see the cash reserves gradually being spent down. Um there's about $10 million in sewer projects over the next five years. And so that those dark blue bars declining each of those years represents um capital spending. And here's a snapshot of the capital projects for the next five years. First for the water utility. You see um the big the big ticket items in the majority being water main replacement projects. And that's pretty common. We see that in every pretty much every city we work with. Um EMTT like a lot of cities has pipes in the ground that are 50 60 70 years old. And so as time goes by, those degrade and and those need to be replaced and modernized. And so that's um what a lot of those projects are you see over the next five years. And a similar list for the sewer utility. Um got uh five five different um line uh sewer line replacement projects there. And again, as I mentioned, about $10 million worth of infrastructure um projects over the next five years. So let's take a look at the you know so

based on that you know clearly there needs to be some adjustment in the rates to to uh generate the additional revenue needed to pay for those capital projects and and pay for the increased costs of operating and maintenance um and maintaining cash reserves. So we'll take a look at the 5-year monthly rates what that what a typical monthly bill is going to look like for a customer that uses about 800 cubic feet of water per month and and in our analysis that was the the average customer in EMTT. Um, we'll take a look at what the monthly combined water and sewer bill looks like at different levels of usage. Um, and then what the comparison or what the bills look like in comparison with some of the neighboring utilities that we examined and then we'll come back and revisit those uh those graphs that showed the um the operating results over the next five years with the recommendations incorporated. So, I won't read this whole table, but there's one thing I do want to point out. So this is the this table represents the water rates and the the large the large group at the top is the fixed charge starting with the 5/8 inch meter which is your typical residential meter um all the way up to an 8 inch meter um and you see those costs gradually get higher and higher and higher as the meter size increases. That's typical with um with all water utility rates. Yes sir.

Can I pause just um real quick? Um a billing unit is how much is a billing unit in terms of volume of water? uh 100 cubic feet which is 748 gallons. So one unit is is 100 cubic feet. Usage is is 500,000 gallons per month because it said 800 billing units is the average. It I'm sorry it's 100. It's no 100 units. 100 cubic feet is is a unit. So it's eight units of water. 7.48 just I'm just I'm I apologize. I was I got caught on that. 800 billion units per month is the average 800 cubic feet per month of water is the average use.

800 cubic feet. Okay. So one billion unit is one cubic feet not 100 100 cubic feet is one billion unit is what's called a unit is 100 100 cubic feet to the last slide. Okay. So the I thank you. Okay. So it's cubic feet. Got it. Okay. Thank you. I but the billing unit is is is 700 is 100 cubic feet. 100. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

Um so the the the big change in the the meter charges is you notice the under the existing rates the the amount of the fixed charge increments increments slowly um as you go from a 5/8 inch meter up to an 8 inch meter. What we did is realign as a standard throughout the the industry and throughout the state and throughout the country is realign those fixed charges to be consistent with the American Waterworks Association guidelines. And what they do is they base the the charge for for or they base each meter um uh charge or or the the the re the ratio of each meter to to the residential meter based on hydraulic flow. So they look at how much hydraulic flow can a meter accommodate. So you start with the 5/8 stitch meter and increment up increment up and so we align the meter the meter charges to be consistent with the AWA guidelines um like I said which is consistent throughout the country and throughout the state. So you'll notice that in the first year that 5/8 inch meter that typical residential meter the charge goes down slightly and some of the larger meters they go up significantly and again we looked at this extensively and talked it through with staff. Um and so that results in that first year the charges kind of realigning a little bit and then from there they just increment up percentage-wise. They don't change each year. They just change in that first year as a result of the cost of service analysis. And at the bottom you see the volumetric rate um currently at $4.79 um per billing unit per 100 cubic feet. Um and in the second year, um it it didn't need to change because the the the reshuffle of those fixed charges, uh generated enough additional revenue that the volumetric rate didn't need to change in the first year. And then you see in 2027 the volumetric rate goes up to $527 and then increments increments up a little bit um each year after that. Uh sewer charges are a little bit simpler. There's no meter charge. There's just the um each customer pays a monthly fixed charge. And you see across the top there, all customers per sewage

unit pay currently $8. Um that'll go up to $9.37 in the first year and then increments a little bit less than that. So it goes up a about a $1.37 in the first year, but then goes up only about 50 cents in the years after that and and slightly less even after that. Um we're showing the EMWD charges below that. That's just for information purposes only. We're not citing EMWD's charges, but they are part of the bill that that residents see. And so we wanted to include that in the tables and it'll be included in the the notices that go out. So residents know exactly everything that's part of their utility bill. So what does that look like on a bill? This uh graphic here shows what a combined monthly bill for a resident would look like at various use levels of use. And so starting at the bottom, a resident that uses 400 cubic feet of water would see about a $2.16 um increase in their bill. Um and then you see all the way through um a use uh a typical resident that uses 800 cubic feet,000 cubic feet, 1,600 cubic feet, and 2,000 cubic feet. And so you can see in just about all cases the the changes between $2.16 and $223. So not a whole lot of variation. Um and you see the the existing bill is the blue and the the proposed bill is the light blue. So um that's what uh the the first year's change will look like at at different levels of use for customers. And the next graph shows what a bill will look like for that standard average customer that uses 800 cubic feet um for each of the five years of the study period. So again, that first year it goes up $218 as we showed on the previous graph. Um the next year it goes up uh $1021 because there was one that there was the that major change or the main change that needed to be made in the second year. And then you see it drops back down and the changes about $8 a month in the the final three years. And that that that $10 change that second year was due to the increase in sewer um in that that that second year.

So here's a comparison of where he's existing rates and the proposed rates stand um in comparison to all of the neighboring um utilities that we looked at. Um MWD covers a lot of the area. So to to find utilities and cities that have their own utilities, um you know, we we had to look around and and uh in some cases go a little farther away in Bowmont and Escandido. Um but you see how much it's just about in the middle. That black line um through the graph, $12,530 represents the average of all of the utilities we looked at. And so starting out, we're at $1215. We go up to $12323 or just below that average. Um which is I think a positive thing to to look at. And then uh back to the graphics that we looked at at the beginning. Now you see for the water utility the the revenues are um exceeding expenditures each of the five years and that black line representing the net results uh stays positive. Again slight dip in year four is that that revenue reshuffles a little bit because the water sale water credit sales um cease. At the bottom you see there's a the cash in reserve is right at the 180day requirement um other than the second year. That's because there's a big uh $4 million capital um list of capital projects in that that that second year. So uh drops down just in that one year and then pops right back up in the third year for the ser utility. Um similar you see the the blue dark blue outpacing the light blue across the top all the way across the black line staying uh solidly positive. And at the bottom we're still spending down because there's excess reserves. We're still spending that down over the the 5year period. And we projected it out even to 10 years um and even just with um cost of living increases over years 6 through 10. We're not including that in the study. It's just for sort offormational purposes. Um the cash balance wouldn't get spent down by year 10. It's still still above the the goal. So we wanted to make sure you know even though we're only able to implement rates for five years under

California law, we want to make sure we're leaving you in a good position for the next rate study cycle, which you know will come in five years. Um finally want to talk a little bit about drought rates. We were also asked to look at um implementing a drought rate structure and what that is uh it's a it's a set of rates that can be implemented in periods of drought. And that is uh the two 2018 uh legislation uh mandated that water suppliers plan for levels of drought so that they can implement drought rates in cases of emergency. Um there's a couple ways that they can be implemented. the city manager can make a determination based on um kind of supply or system issues, things with water quality or um uh failures of distribution lines or storage or or anything like that. Um or the governor or the state water board can implement drought um restrictions based on you know drought conditions throughout the state. So, um, the city's ordinance outlines more specifically, um, you know, all of the different requirements and and situations in which drought rates can be, uh, implemented. And then the rates the the rates that I'm going to talk about here in a second will become part of that ordinance as well. So, what a drought rate is is essentially if if you're mandating folks to use less water, you're you're selling less water. Um, and so the volume of water is less. So, on the fixed side, those costs remain the same. the the fixed charges won't change. But on the volumetric side, you still need to collect the revenue to do all of the things that that you need to do as a water utility. So, you know, you have to make up that revenue that you're losing by selling less water by unfortunately charging more for the water you sell. So, what a drought rate um is is essentially a sir charge on top of the basic rates um which increases the rates to make up for that lost revenue that you would have from selling less water. So, um you know, kind of a good news bad news thing. the city is able to generate the revenue it needs to continue to meet the financial commitments that it has. Um but unfortunately does cause the cost of the water to go up slightly during a drought. Um which reflects the the reduced supply and the increasing cost associated with that reduced supply. Um

so as I mentioned it only changes the volume rate that that per CCF or per unit of water rate. Um the fixed charge stays the same. Um it results in an increased rate per unit of water and I'll show you the dollar amounts associated with that. Um and to calculate that we looked at the the revenue that require that is required and then with staff we looked through various costs that would be reduced. So there are some costs that will go down as a result of drought. You're pumping less water. Um so the cost of water the cost of electricity associated with pumping that water goes down a little bit. So we did factor that in as well. Um, and again, as I as I mentioned, the the city's ordinance number 1 1997 um outlines more specifically all of the the requirements and the the procedures and policies associated with the droughts drought rates. So, this is what the drought rates look like. So, in the first column there, um, you see the total costs associated with volumetric water use um, in column A there. And you see under the standard, um, they're about 7.6 million. And you see those costs do go down each of the stage drought rate that we looked at. Um so that um for stage five they go down to about 6.7 million. Um and you see the in column B the total number of billable water units that would be sold that are projected to be sold. Um so under standard use which the city would sell about 1.5 million 1.6 million units of water. Um under stage five drought that would be reduced all the way down to under 800,000 um billable units of water. So the rate per billable unit per CCF or per 100 cubic feet of water um that 479 is a standard volumetric rate that we talked about earlier. So you can see that rate goes gradually up through each of those five stages um of the drought rates. And again that's to to offset the the city for the lost revenue associated with selling less water. And this is what those rates look like projected out over the 5-year period. And you can see across the top there the the rates themselves and then across the bottom the the changes um for each state each stage based compared to the

standard rates. So so that wraps up the kind of the description of all the rates. The next step would be to come back next week at the city council meeting and present the same information. Um allow any questions, discussion from the council. Assuming council moves forward, they will set a date for a public hearing. That public hearing um would be conducted on February 10th. Um by December 26, at least no later than se December 26, we would need to mail out notices to property owners and customers informing them of the public hearing and and uh describing the new rates to them and the reason for the rates. There's a about a two four-page notice that goes out, two sheets, four pages, um that goes out and describes some of the background, why the rates are being changed, the process of the rate study, and what the rates are going to look like. um we'll come back on February 10th. The council will conduct that public hearing. Um the residents will have residents and customers will have an opportunity to submit written protests. Um if a majority of residents and customers, property owners and customers I should say, um submit uh written protests, then the council cannot move forward with adopting the new rates. Um if there is no majority protest, council will then have the discretion to to implement the rates after their discussion and consideration. So, um there's 12,585 properties in the city. So, you would need to have a written protest returned from 6 6,293 um properties to represent a majority protest. So, it's pretty high threshold. Um and and uh um you know, probably not likely, but um if you did receive that many protests, then the council then the process would stop and and it would have to come back at some later date. Um, assuming council moves forward and adopts the rates, they'll become effective March 1st and uh and then for the next five years with each of the increases. So, that concludes uh my presentation. Happy to take any questions, provide any more background um that might help you.

All right. Thank you very much for that presentation. Um commissioners questions. Yeah, I just got a question. What type of property uses an 8 inch meter? uh you know, I'm not even sure. You may not even have any. Um it would be a large industrial. Yeah, because that they're getting like a five x more in five years. Like they're going to have to pay five times more with over five years according to one of the graphs that I was looking at. Right. And because an 8 inch meter that's a they it would draw a significant volume of water if it were 8 inch meter. You can imagine that's, you know, we're talking about I'm not Do you know if you have any 8 inch customers?

Good afternoon or good evening. Um, we have a I think maybe two or three 8 inch meters and they serve our large apartment complexes in town. Um, one of them I think is the Echo Hills uh area and the other one might be over by Echo Hills golf course area. So probably golf courses. What's that? More than likely golf courses. It's not a golf course. It's not ation. This actually serves like an apartment complex that has I think two 300 or 400 apartments in it. Gotcha. Okay. So, with that said, do you think that a part those apartments, let's just say those guys would have a five times higher bill within five years compared to a regular residential home?

No. I mean, because that that gets all divided up amongst however many units there are. So, got um well, I guess theoretically could because you know their little piece of it could go up five times, but Yeah. All right. And, uh with the so all flows on one of those also like one of those little graphs there, it said all flows rates uh or the all flow rates, they almost doubled in five years as well. Uh the flow rate. Yeah, it just said all flow rates. It was at the bottom one of those graphs. It was like 479 to Yeah. So, well, not quite double, but yeah, it's going from $479 to $7 over five years. Yeah, over five years. Correct.

Gotcha. All right, that that's all the questions I had. Thank you. Um, I have a question. So, it you did show that just um for the regular usage and then there's also a drought usage plan. Will both of those be explained in the um in I guess the memo or the notice that you're going to send? Yeah, the notice that's going to go out will have description of of both the standard rates and the drought rates and an explanation of when the drought rates could be could be could be implemented only in only in a drought when they would be. Okay. Correct.

And then it'll have like the times maybe of when because I I know that for me when we were like in a drought time my bill went up and I didn't even notice it until like it was too late. I had to pay the bill. And so I'm just wondering will they receive notices of when that will be happening especially like for the hotter summer months if it won't be in the notice that we're going to send out but it's part of the city's ordinance that uh you know whatever the procedures are for notifying um you know property owners and customers of of of the implementation of the drought ordinance and I think it has to be noticed through standard city you know noticing u procedures that the council would use for for other events. Okay. Thank you.

Word water boy.

Yeah, I I did kind of nerd out a little bit on this. Um just because it's very interesting to me, but um it is a it's a tough place to be when when our business model for water is to get our customers to use less of our product while it's costing more to provide that product. So that shift from commodity to fixed is is having to happen. There are kind of two areas of questions. Um, one is in regards to where the city is at currently in terms of um, uh, compliance with SB157 for the man mandatory conservation of gallons per capita per day. And the reason I bring that up is, you know, there there could be some as a result of some of these changes, there could be some changes in behavior. um especially on the larger meters on the fixed cost, there could be some maybe requests for downsizing of meters, you know, and so having an understanding of what um of of of what you're paying for um you know, if I had a 6- in meter, but I only need 200 gallons per minute. I purchased that capacity of that 6 inch meter and then now I'm now I'm paying a lot more, maybe I would come in. Would the city offer an opportunity for me to downsize that meter and say, "Hey, I don't need a 6 inch meter anymore. I really only need a 2inch meter. I'd like to downsize that." Is that is would that be an an alternative?

I'm not sure I can address that. Sorry, Travis. I it's it's it's just it's the it's interesting to me the way that like our policies in in the wide are are these rates and things are sometimes are intended to kind of change behavior relative to meeting state goals and and and mandates and we just have to be really careful on how how that behavior changes.

Yeah. So with your question earlier on SB1 1157 the what we currently been doing with the urban water use efficiency reporting we're in comp it doesn't have any red flags so we're meeting our our targets which is good and um we've been meeting with other agencies along with that so we're all on the same page um as far as downsizing a meter if somebody wants to come in and downsize a meter um we usually kind of put that back for them to kind of re-evaluate their demand study on the on the piece that they're commercial property they're doing and stuff because um it's kind we're going to kind of leave it up to the end user to tell us what why they want to downsize and then we have to send it through our process to make sure that what they do want to downsize is still going to meet building code sure plumbing codes and stuff. So that's kind of where we're going to leave it at when those come about.

Yeah, I I I could see that. Um and it would be interesting. So, there was a question asked um on how many 8 inch meters. Um the the illustration of the current and future rates was based on an 800 um cubic foot per month average. And I'm assuming that that's all the residential, right? And so the residential accounts have the least amount of impact um in terms of fixed costs ch um changes. Um, and it's broken down in the report based on type of use. So, single family, multif family, commercial, institutional. Is there is there anything that shows kind of what the what those projections would be based on maybe meter size? Um, and what the quantity is because ultimately what it comes down to is what what what is going to be acceptable to council to to approve. But if but if we're showing just the 800 cubic foot and that looks really good. it looks like it's a very very small amount and it just doesn't kind of jive with the tables showing a five times increase. And so I'm wondering if if there's maybe some an opportunity just to kind of check that against or or at least to have that in your back pocket when presenting to council and presenting to the the the public is how do you reconcile a fivefold increase on fixed costs? But the illustration of the monthly bill is very very very small. And that's because the illustration is only using the the 5/8 inch meter fixed cost as part of the bill bill bill um illustration. If you were to do that same illustration for Echo Hills community on a 8 in meter, what would that look like? and that might get a little different response from all of the comm community all the the residents that live in those in those communities. But do we have it I'm

just kind of curious just without without any um requirement of accuracy just kind of in general number of like 4 inch five um 6 inch and 8 inch meters that the city has just we do have it I don't have numbers but yeah we do have it I don't have it handy but

I'm just kind of curious you know if you look at we have almost 8,000 um single family accounts um 600 00 multif family accounts. I'm assuming those are going to be some of those larger ones. Um, and then uh 565 commercial. Those are probably two inch inch and a half. I'm assuming some somewhere in that range. The only point I'm getting at is that the illustration of the rates is only focused on the single family of the 5/8 inch meters and there's a there's some others that might we just might want to understand what the effect of Yeah. understand and I mean we looked at those because they're you know more than 90% of the right

of the customers and so we're you know we're trying to to just focus on you know the majority to speak to the majority community but we we certainly have all that data we have all that meter data we know the numbers of meters and um I mean we could we could possibly prepare um something like that I don't know if we can prepare it by next week but uh we

yeah I guess you know what what what what caught my attention was that like if you have an apartment complex with a whole bunch of residents and then now the property manager is coming in going, "Wait, wait, wait a minute." And send something out to all the residents. Yeah, it's a small percentage of the total accounts. You only have we only have 9,400 accounts, but it may represent a lot more people and that may, you know, so that if if if the property managers are saying, "Well, wait a minute, that that that's going to affect my bill this much more and that's going to affect everyone else's rent." it just just something that I that caught caught my eye in terms of what that because that primarily because in in your presentation the that it looked it looked so docile in terms of the that it's like oh that's no big deal that's that's easy to accept but if you but looking at the changes in the fixed cost so some huge increases on the larger meter sizes who does that represent what is that who's going to it's it's not the same as what you're shown in the in the illustration so but it's and I just in general, I think we're going to be getting to a point where we're going to be trying to encourage less usage and have to fix put more on the fixed cost anyways. So, it's it's a tough business model to be in, but very very interesting. Um, I probably spent more time than I should have read through the report, but thank you. No further questions or comments.

I think Vice Sher asked a lot of the questions, but this might be more for public works. Um, well, also for you, we we're doing a five-year projection. Uh, and in the five-year projection, we're going to be in this in the positive with with the rates going up. Are we going to be is this going to be every five years we're looking at this type of report and hopefully not have to increase in the next five years at the rate we're doing the first five years or how do you see from five to 10 years with the rate of your projection? Are we going to have to keep increasing that rate continually and from five year five to year 10 or is it going to more plateau once we kind of bring in that revenue? What what do you think?

Um sure. Um so we did look at years I mentioned we looked at years 6 through 10. I mean it's hard to know because we're you're we're not we don't know anything about what costs are going to look like and and we did apply escalators to all the different categories of costs. you know, personnel, electricity, chemicals, you know, everything all the way through your operating budgets, um, through the whole 10-year period. And, you know, based on what we looked at now, it looks like I mean, there still will be increases in year six through 10 because costs are going to continue to go up, but they're not going to be anything close to, uh, the magnitude that we're looking at in the first, you know, year here to kind of make up for the six years of having no increases. Um, they're, you know, on the range of, you know, three three and a half to to 5%, you know, depending. Um I think sewer was one was three and a half, one was was close to five. So um you know in that ballpark as long as you know but you don't know how things are going to change but assuming everything you know stays as is now in terms of um you know the escalation of costs, the escalation of capital costs and capital projects and there's no you know major changes that require um you know a major project that we don't know about right now. Um that would be about the level of increases we'd be looking at for years six through 10 in the next rate study cycle.

Okay. And this is probably more for public works. Uh but the next question is when it comes to our diff fees, I know we charge development diff fees and and that the cost of the rates are going up due to labor, due to chemicals, due to upkeeps of wells and and all the above. That's why we have to keep increasing these rates. But on the diffy side of the developer impact fees, are we planning on increasing those fees for development impact to allow, you know, not such an increase in rates in the future? Because uh you know what what if the the 30-year-old wells uh a failure occurs suddenly, say an earthquake happens and a failure occurs on two or three wells. I mean, what's our contingency plan on that? what's our backup plan financially in case something like that happens where we don't have to keep increasing the rates if something fails.

So as far as the development impact fee um we are currently doing a study so that those um rates will be coming forward um for adjustment in the near future. But um in looking at the city's water system, we don't have a lot of growth left and so that's not really going to affect um you know it's not for a catastrophe um anything like that. We're going to have to get emergency funds to deal with something like that. Um but as far as you know what growth we do have, we will be updating the the development impact fees as well in the near future.

Okay. And how is Saboba using are are we providing a contract of water to Saboba? And is are there if yes or no? I mean if yes, are we increasing their rates as well? We we don't sell water to Saboba. They have all of their own uh Okay. I just want to make sure to the water. Okay. Good rights. Yeah. Good rights. Yes.

And uh I think that's it for me for questions. Um maybe on the water bill when we have that public meeting and maybe when we get the water bill a little insert would be nice just so that the community can get it in that way when they see how much their bill is. There's a little insert about a public hearing for next year. That's just again for the city not necessarily for you. Any other questions for

just um just to to confirm the um and you touched on it, Noah, but so the the the cost the CIP costs, it looked like there was nothing in there associated with expansion that would be funded by new connection fees. So, so that's basically saying that our system is is sufficient as is both in terms of supply from the wells and conveyance and storage um to support that new any new de development or is there a carveout um as part of the CIP? I I think

I can maybe partially answer. We did not include any projects that are strictly expansion related. You know, those would be, you know, if there were any would be separated out and be part of an impact fee. So that that would be paid for by new development. These are just, you know, rehabilitating existing facilities, you know, modernizing and upgrading existing facilities, which is why they're born by the existing customers. Correct. rates. Yeah. And how do we look on our water supply? Are there any concerns? Are we getting are we in in the green or are we in the orange or red or for drought tolerant reasons? Sorry about that.

It's all right. Um, we're currently we're good on our water supplies. We have our wells. We have our other uh areas that we get water in from um the Santo Basin. So, we're good. Okay. Perfect. If you're if you're able to get a good good deal on the carryover credits, then that might uh that that that might make this all look really good in five years. All right. Any other questions? Okay. Well, thank you very much. With that, we'll just go ahead and uh receive and file this the report. Thank you, chairman, vice chairman, members of the commission. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next is item 9A, city attorney report. City, Miss Sari.

Thank you, chair. I have nothing to report, but we'll be providing a legislative update at the next meeting. Okay. And item 9B is the community development report. Director Monnique.

Thank you, Chair. Um, our future agenda items include the Viadelos Tresertos tenative track map 38979, Weston Park redesign, uh, Cton Square development, the RTA Wentworth facility, um, and, um, upcoming pro housing designation program. Um, we had discussed that about a year ago, but we're bringing that back online. Uh we potentially will be c um uh working with WRCOG um with grant funding to assist us with the prohousing designation submitt a long overdue um application that we do need to complete and uh that is the uh conclusion of our future agenda items. Actually we actually one more we do have an extension of time coming forward to um in the next um in the next month. Thank you. Okay. Reports and future agenda items are none. And moving on to 9D, planning commission reports. Director Monnique. Yes. Commissioner Worth.

Um, nothing to report. Commissioner Vermont. I have nothing to report. Commissioner Vona, nothing to report at this time. And I apologize. Uh, chair vice chair uh Worth, I apologize that I misstated your name today. Sorry. Um, Chair Beamsterfer.

Uh, we'll start off with a little funny true story of a Christmas story since we're in December. Uh, the Christmas tree that was too tall for him in 1924. Hit brought a very large Christmas tree to downtown holiday celebration. The tree was transported through the downtown on a wagon and as it passed along Florida Avenue, the top of the tree caught a lowhanging telephone line which snapped the line causing issues with the locals until helped arrive. However, the people gathered that evening and celebrated the Christmas cheer. So, little true story of him back in 100 years ago almost. Um upcoming thing December 6, we have our Christmas parade that starts at 5:00 pm and it ends at the uh Gibble Gibble Park, Western Gibble Park. And then uh also on December the 5th going back a day, the Hemet Valley Christmas Cruise and that's being hosted by the city of Hemet as well as uh Eagle Brew Coffee Crew and some other local folks. And you'll be seeing some old hot rods coming down the street. December 14th at 9:00 a.m. is the Tensil 5K triathlon. And if you're interested, you can go to himca.govdev SLE NDEV economic development and November 20th a little good story from out of Thanksgiving Hemmet PD him Unified School District and Saboba Foundation donated over a thousand turkeys to local families. So that was that was nice to read that. And uh I believe there is a Chamber of Commerce Christmas coming up as well on the 11th or 15th, something like that. I can't remember which day it is. But I just also wanted to kind of bring up the staff. Uh something that I think we would like to see as a whole is a progress report on all the grant fundings that has been going on with the city for the last at least these last couple years because I'm going to reflect on the trash enclosure that's

been going on for two years now and I know there's usually sunset dates of lots of grants. So, um, you know, it would just be nice to hear from staff what grants were out there, who received the grant, not in detail, but you know, John Doe received a grant and, you know, it just so we know that the the grant is going to good places and that we know it it's being effective. But, it would just be nice to get a progress report on all the grants that we're giving out to the community. I know there's a couple of um frustrating citizens that applied for like the vandalism grants and they submitted everything and just nothing. They didn't hear it back or we're sorry we were depleted our funds or and she was a little frustrated on that. Uh so it would just be nice to see something like that. And with that, I have nothing else to report and we're going to adjourn the city meeting to the next schedule meeting for January 6, 2026. So, we'll see you guys next year.