City Council - Regular Meeting

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Teresa, please take the roll.

Okay, Mayor Jones. Here. Carlson. Here. Keel. Here. Bowen. Here. Horace. Here. Mattson. Here. Shealy. Here.

All right, do we have any actions or motions on the agenda for tonight's meeting? make a motion to approve the agenda for tonight. How about a second? I'll second. Any discussion? Hearing none, we'll vote. Carlson? Yes. Mattson? Yes. Bowen? Yes. Keel? Yes. Horacek? Yes. Shelling?

Yes.

All right. We have no public comment. None of that good stuff. We move right into new business. First item there is 2027 budget review. Theresa.

Okay, so in your packets was the proposed budget. It has a list of proposed revenues, a list of proposed expenses. Once again, a budget is what we anticipate to see for revenues, what we anticipate to see for expenses. Obviously, we can't predict the future. Things may come up during the year and As you all have been on the council, you know, we can always adjust the budget by either adding something by motion or not paying something out. So this is just what we anticipate, our best guesstimate of what we will be spending next year. So I'll just kind of go through the proposed revenues first, just kind of highlight some of the bigger changes. Like I said, most of it is, we can kind of figure out from year to year as kind of an estimate of what we've paid out the last years. And then we just kind of adjust it to if we know it needs to be increased for some reason or decreased for some reason, we'll kind of work that into the budget. So if you look at your list of revenues that we have in the packets there, first of all, the first thing is, you know, our biggest source of money we get to operate the city on is real estate taxes. So what we claim for real estate taxes or what we request from the county for taxes, sets what our mill levy is and we can get into a little more detail maybe after i go through all the revenues but basically i put the number in there that would keep our mill levy the same right now our mill levy is 5.3 percent the number in current year taxes the 2 million 80 144 would keep our mail levy the same but we can discuss that here in a few minutes of whether we want to increase that decrease that you know that's all up to the council here but that's the number i plugged in there Our second biggest source is first and second penny sales tax revenue in there. We are lagging a little behind this year in that. If you notice from the sales tax reports that are in your box, we're kind of lagging a little bit. So I did bump that down a little bit. I'm hoping we will turn that around when we got quick start coming in. And so maybe we'll see a bump up in that. I hope it doesn't go down, but I did adjust it a little bit for that as well. liquor license and video lottery fees those are based on the current licenses we have out there we know how many we have and we know what they pay so that's plugged in there building permits and the park fee we get from building permits i did bump that up a little bit this year we're kind of holding steady but maybe a little in the increase as you guys have probably noticed our last building from a report, we got a big spur of single family homes and we got new developments starting and happening. So hoping to see an increase in that next year. So I did bump that up a little bit. Just want to point out federal grants, that money in there is what we expect to get from the TAP grant. That's the trial that's going along Mickelson Avenue. So that would be the, you know, it's an 80, 20 grant. That would be the 80% of that cost coming to us from that federal grant. So that's what's plugged in there for revenue. Just want to point out down, we have Linux payment for our building inspector, code enforcer. We don't expect to have that next year if we bring Kyle on full-time just with the city. So that's not going to be a revenue source next year. Our bank interest, I did bump that up a little bit. Now that we've switched to ReliBank, we're getting higher interest rates. We got, right now, a good healthy chunk in the bank. So that's a good thing. So bump that up some. On the next page, Just want to point out special assessments due. So that first special assessments due, that is on the 9th and Vandermark projects. We just have one person still paying on them. That's going to be done here pretty soon. But next year, the assessments due for the 12th and Oak Street project, that's going to start to come into effect. Because this October, they've had their year to... pay on it if they wanted to, or to pay ahead. What's ever not paid by this October, per our policy, we'll send that to the county. So we will have assessments coming in for that, I anticipate. So that's why there's a new line column there for special assessments due, and that's gonna be on the 12th and Old Street project. And then another source of revenue is that street maintenance fee. That amount is known. Karen keeps a spreadsheet of all the properties in town in their footage, so we know what we're gonna expect for that there. So that's kind of our general fund. We expect a little over $5 million to come in in revenue on our general fund. It stays pretty steady of what we have been expecting the last few years. The next fund we have is basically our third penny sales tax fund. This is that extra penny on entertainment, restaurants, liquor, whatnot. That too is down just slightly this year. So I did bump it a little bit down, but not much. As you can see, they're only $3,000. Kind of on their own, but like I said, hopefully maybe that'll switch around to next year. We'll see how that goes. The debt service fund, these are money that we expect to come in from the TIFs. TIF number one is the Maple Pass TIF, and we've been having money come in for that. When that comes in, you'll see on the expense side, we pay it out to pay that TIF. You'll see I added TID number three, but we don't expect any payment to Texas to come in from that until 2028. So there's nothing there for next year, but in 2028, we will be starting to get tax revenue from that. Got a bunch of blank categories because we got a lot of project funds that have been closed out, which is nice. They're all done. I expect to have the wastewater plant and Western Avenue projects closed out this year. So nothing's in the budget for 2027 for them. I did put some funding in our added new project, the Kelly Avenue project. Obviously we haven't decided whether to do a project for this or not. Going off the CIP from the engineers, if we do decide to do one way or whatever it be, I use their cost estimate in there. It's just a placeholder. It's in its own separate fund, so it doesn't affect the general fund, the sewer fund, water fund. It's its own capital project. So it's in there. If we decide to move ahead, we know there's something in budget. If we decide not to move ahead, it doesn't affect anything with it. Water fund, basically just kind of averages of what we expect and what's been comparable to the last year. There's no big changes in it. The only thing New York sells, Bump that up, we do do per ordinance a 2% increase every year. So bump the meter, water sells up some for that. And same thing with the sewer fund. Don't expect any big changes there, except I did bump up, we'll be anticipating more in those sewer charges, that 2% there. The only other thing with the SIRT fund too, obviously we've got the SIRT charges for loan one and two. We know how many accounts we have, and so I just went off our current accounts and plugged that in of what we get for each of those, and that's the number that's in there. That will fluctuate per accounts we have coming in, but not much. So that's kind of in a nutshell what our revenue is. So all in all total with all the funds we'll get $10,517,422 in revenue into the city, but that's factoring all accounts. Any questions on that? And we'll talk about the tax levy a little bit.

On the surcharge, I see that we are billing for 1,254 accounts. If that number goes up, do they ever reassess that? No.

No, it's just by the number of accounts you have. We collected off of every account, and so that goes up.

So as our number of account goes up, does that reduce our, because that money all goes in.

That additional money we're getting in.

Reduces the amount of time it takes to pay off that loan. Right, that's what I'm asking. It does not reduce that payment.

Yes, it won't reduce the amount, exactly right. It won't reduce the amount, but we'll have more revenue in that account. That we could, you know, go towards more payments, you know, if we want. Okay. Or pay off sooner.

Well, maybe we can get them back. Yeah, right.

I can't agree with you. A little bit helps.

Okay. And billboard revenue, we talked about that.

You said that... Yeah, the money that's plugged in there for billboard revenue, I just gone off our current leases, and then I've just figured in, you know, I've taken off what's going to terminate, and then I've just kept in there what will still keep going on. Basically, in two years, it'll be down to nothing because everything will be terminated off of those. Gotcha.

Yep.

Just went off our current contracts there.

All right. Anybody else got any questions or comments? No, we'll keep plugging forward.

So let's talk about the tax levy a little bit before we go into the expenses. So like I said, I plugged in the number that we would request from the county if we want to keep our mill levy the same of 5.3%. And obviously, you know, if you've noticed on this sheet that I put into your packet, the tax levy is off a formula that's dictated by the state. It basically goes off of the dollar amount we requested last year. We add in the CPI, the consumer price index, up to 3%. If that CPI is lower than 3%, like it is this past year, which is only 2 1⁄2, we can only claim an additional 2 1⁄2% off of that. And then it factors in our growth rate. And last year, our growth rate was 3.6, which is great for Hartford, and we used to be able to claim all that, but the legislature has kept it at 3 now, so we can... I think all in all, if you don't figure in the discretionary formula, I talked to the county about that, it's like 3.06, but we'll cap right around that 3% on there. So if you just go by that formula, we can request $2,074,769. That puts our mill levy at 5.28. So it does lower it a little bit. Now we can claim more because we have some stored CPI. you know, obviously that generates more revenue, real estate taxes for the city. But it's, so if we would go by this rate, claim all our stored CPI, we could get about 2,149,000. So a little bit about 150,000 more dollars, but our mill level would go up to 5.48. So, and, That's the max we can claim. We can go anywhere below that, though. So we can go off the formula, we can go off the current mill, we can even go lower if you want. Do keep in mind, though, if we lower the goal, you know, whatever that number we claim this year, that's the number we start with next year. So if we go down, we're going to start at a lower amount that we can only add so much to as we go forward. So keep that in mind. You know, we've been We've been known for having a high mill rate around the city and you know, I pay those taxes too. So I definitely don't want to see us go higher. I'd like to see, we've done a good job the last few years, being steady or maybe going a little bit lower, but we, you know, like I said, we do want to keep in mind, we don't want to go too low and affect the future, you know, possibility of, because that's our biggest source, basically, for the city, so.

So I called Teresa this morning and just said, what if we went to what the first line is, don't use any of our stored CPI, and went to what we could max, which would be 5.28. I know it's only two-tenths of a point, but it shows that we're trying to reduce it anywhere we can. Yep, it's $6,000 in the big picture. I mean, I know it's not much, but we're not increasing, we're dropping it. I would hope that it would show to the citizens that we're looking at every dime we can.

You're talking with the 5.28?

Yep, go to 5.28 instead of the 5.3.

And that's stored CPI, and I think I mentioned before, but we don't lose it. It just carries over until next year. So if we would happen to need additional funds, future years, we can tap into it.

Right. And if there... I mean, I know this is a pretty robust conversation, but do we have any... I would say major upcoming expenses from an infrastructure standpoint, maybe Kelly Avenue. Is there anything on there? Because obviously, you know, if we're like, hey, we've got a multi-million dollar project we're doing next year, then that might be a case to.

I mean, we will go over the CPI. There's some big projects coming up.

Right, and that kind of dictates.

Yeah, exactly. That's why I say you don't want to.

That kind of dictates.

You don't want to get too low on our revenue because, you know, if you don't have the revenue to cover some of these projects, yeah, I mean, we will need it. We have to keep that in mind, yes, what's upcoming for projects.

Right.

I just think that at this point, since that number is so close, to me it's... It's $74,000. No, it's not even that. It's $2,080,000 to $2,074,000. It's $6,000. It's $5,375. Yeah, it's nothing.

It feels like we're milking mice. Well, so then you just say leave it. Leave it at 5.3 and don't, okay. I'll remember that when a citizen asks me, hey, what's our mill levy? It's 5.3. I think you can remember 5.28.

Has been for a while. It'd be a new number, though. Okay.

I know it's only 6,000, but I think holding it steady with the way our expenses are looking, I feel like that's good.

I'm an optics guy. It's the only reason I brought it up.

Just like trying the one-way street. It didn't get Scott out of his seat, so it must be fine where it's at. Yeah.

I will put a little caveat in there. I put a little note in the packet. The numbers I use as far as our assessment of that, the county doesn't have them nailed down when I sent out the packet because they only came out on the 15th. So it may get adjusted a few dollars here and there, but it won't be nothing drastic or whatnot. And that will be reflected. I mean, once we move on, we'll have to actually pass a budget ordinance, and you'll see that number in there. All right. Sounds good. We will make that our plan of action now. Then we're going to go over the expenses side. Like I said, I'll just kind of hit some of the highlights with that as well. Once again, expenses, we kind of know what we need for operating expenses every year for supplies and maintenance. Obviously, as we're growing, got more area to cover. We take over more ground, more land. Everything goes up. And utilities go up and all that good stuff. So expenses always seem to rise, but Basically, for the most part, like I said, we can kind of go by what we've paid previous year, kind of see whether we were running higher or lower this year and kind of adjust as necessary. So with expenses, I'll just point out, you know, salaries overall, I kind of factored in what I anticipate to be paid out this year and factored a 5% increase in it. So that's kind of reflected in each department. So that's what I went off there. Insurance, that has always been going up about 5% every year. So that is reflected in this budget too, is about 5% increase in every department for the insurance. We know utilities too, they seem to rise. So I figure about three to 5% in those two. So that was just kind of in general overall, I looked at. Finance office, like I said, besides salaries and insurance, no big changes. I don't anticipate any big need for insurance computers. We've kind of upgraded all our desk and chairs and all that kind of stuff last year. So I think we're sitting in good shape. So I don't expect any big purchases there. We know we got to purchase one computer for Jenny. Her's is kind of on the rotation list next year, but that's all that's figured in there. Under government buildings, Kind of the biggest change, repairs and maintenance this last year, you see it was at $76,000. We've come down to $8,000. $70,000 of that was the gauge house redoing that basement, so that's why there's that big difference in there. Don't expect a whole lot of big repairs. We've got a $6,000 base that we kind of go off of, and then we put a little bit in there to we need to do some shop door repair, so we've figured that in it as well. Furniture, machine, and equipment there under government buildings. We got about 5,000 bathes in there. We talked about a new dishwasher for the Gage house. They run $10,000, $11,000. We do got about 4,500. Seniors got a couple thousand. We got a $2,500 grant. So hopefully, what they got now will hold out until next year. We can replace it then at that time. They seem to be good with that, they said. Police administration, the contracted hours, you know, we have the daytime hours where we have Alex here, the Monday through Friday, and we just pay his full salary. That's the second line on there. That's just kind of an estimate of what we anticipate he'll make. He's kind of told me he'll probably get this percentage, you know, increase or whatnot. So I kind of plugged that in. And then, you know, our contract hours, our nights and weekends, that's at a set dollar amount. It will go up 3% next year, so I did turn that into budget. The Sheriff's Department has already told us that. So that is the number they will bill us, so that will be right on. As far as volunteer fire department, obviously the request from the Humboldt Fire Department and our fire department, those are to be determined. You guys can go over those requests later on the agenda. The $80,000 that we paid for the building, we're contracted in that. That was part of the loan agreement, so that is in budget because we do have to pay that out. We signed a contract with them. Streets and highways, no. HUGE INCREASES THERE. I WILL POINT OUT PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, AND THAT'S KIND OF BASICALLY ENGINEERING FEES PER THE CIP FOR 2027. THERE'S SOME ENGINEERING DOLLARS IN THERE FOR EXTENDING UTILITIES ON SECOND STREET, SO LIKE BEING NORTH OF THE WINDSOR GROUP DEVELOPMENT. AND THEN THE $20,000 FOR THAT TRANSPORTATION PLAN WE AGREED TO HAVE THEM DO. SO THAT'S FIGURED INTO THAT. LIKE I SAID, Otherwise, Craig's got me on the numbers of what he'll need for chip ceiling next year and the main one and the gravel. So that's been all figured into the budget. Did bump up utilities a little bit, about 3%. They seem to be running that. And then that street maintenance fee amount in there, as far as expenses, that is what the city has to pay on our land, because everybody pays that street maintenance fee. City, school, churches, we've been through that, so we have to pay our share of that. So that's that expense in there. It's also, we are paying, you know, to an HOA for detention pod maintenance, which I haven't seen really any maintenance happening on the HOA. system. They get the drivers, pay the insurance, do all the repairs, maintenance. We don't basically have to do anything with it. This year, they're letting, and they've been holding out $7,000, I don't know, $7,500 to do this management fee, basically, or is what it's cost us. This year, we're over $12,000. They jumped 63%, and they said they have done that for all the cities and counties. They just can't make it on ridership. You know what they're bringing in for the ridership at these rural transit systems. So that is a fairly big jump on it. I don't know if they'll continue that way or not, but basically they are struggling to basically with all the expenses they have and trying to find revenue to offset it. So that is a pretty big increase. Our animal control services were pretty much on budget. The swimming pool, 20,000 for our higher position, like we had discussed at our previous meeting, anticipating that it's going to go into 2027. So that's factored in there. Under park, basically, The professional services that we'll see under park, that is engineering for the trial going from basically from 12th Street up to the Swenson Sports Complex. We didn't get the GF&P grant that we applied for, but I'm gonna talk with the board about possibly applying this October 4 TAP grant, and if not that, then reapplying again for the GF&P trial. So I'm hoping we can still do that trial, and that would cover engineering fees for the design of that. And then capital improvements at the bottom of the page there, that is what the park and rec boards request they would like to have for them. So that's why it's a to be determined. It's on the list of requests from staff. Bike and rec trail, this amount, now that's going back to the trail along Mickelson. That is going to be our expense to put in that trail. But on the revenue side, 80% of that was reimbursed in revenue coming in. DOWNTOWN HARFORD, THAT'S TO BE DETERMINED BY YOU GUYS FOR THE REQUEST. PLANNING AND ZONING, I HAVE TAKEN OUT ANY SALARIES FOR PAUL CLARK FOR THAT FOR NEXT YEAR. THAT'S KIND OF A CHANGE THERE. The professional services under planning and zoning, that's basically our force account. So what we pay our engineers to review plans, review plats, you know, kind of all that that isn't associated with a specific project. So that's kind of their estimate of what they anticipate to pay out next year. The economic development, that $5,000. We took economic development dollars. We were paying $5,000 to the West Central Music Club. We decided to pay that over three years, so this will be the second year we've been paying that. So that's what that $5,000 in that new line amount is. Otherwise, we don't have anything for promotions under there. We've kind of put a lot of that into our third penny. And then, of course, debt service is the loan payments that we have out for the various projects and loans we've taken out. So that's our general fund. We got a little over $4 million in expenses in general fund. Third penny sales tax, we've been, and some of this could be paid out of general if you want, but we've been taking requests from like the Jamboree Days, the Hometown Christmas, Economic Development Chamber, anything that's promotions for the city can come out of third penny sales. SALES TAX. THAT THIRD PENNY TAX IS KIND OF RESTRICTED OF WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH IT, BUT PROMOTIONS IS DEFINITELY ONE THING THAT'S ALLOWED, AND SO WE'VE BEEN UTILIZING THOSE PAYMENTS WITH THE THIRD PENNY SALES TAX. ONCE AGAIN, ON THE TIFS PAYMENTS, LIKE I SAID, WE ANTICIPATE TO GET TIF MONEY IN FROM APRIL PAST, LIKE WE HAVE BEEN, BUT IT'S ON THE EXPECT SHEET BECAUSE WE'LL BE PAYING IT RIGHT OUT TO PAY ON THAT TIF. And tip number three for the Windsor, we don't expect anything on that till 2028. So it's nothing in that line item. Let's get a lot of closed project accounts. On the expense side, if we do decide in the future to do something with Kenley Avenue, those expenses were plugged in there. Obviously, if we do move forward, we're going to have to figure out really what we're going to do and a funding source, and that's all yet to be determined. But once again, that's its own separate fund. It doesn't affect anything else if we do something or if we don't do anything. And then water. No major purchases in there. Probably the biggest change in there is that we bump up what the cost is of water. When we got to purchase water from Minnehaha Community Water, they always seem to have an increase every year of around 3 to 5%. I figured in about 5% this year because things are going up. So that's figured in there as a cost to us. Everything else has pretty much stayed steady in the water department. Sewer department, that too has stayed pretty steady. We've got our loan payments there. Our expenses stay pretty much in line. um under sewer professional services that's been knocked down we had a hundred thousand dollars in there last year that we dedicated to laguna remediation we haven't paid anything out in that i don't know if we will this coming year but it's in but that's in their request so can you say that again so last year we had about a hundred thousand dollars in the budget for laguna remediation That should be this year. We budgeted it. We have it at 2026. I didn't put that in 2027 because GHI is requesting funds for Laguna remediation. So it might be doubling up, whether they need them or not. That's all to be determined. And if they come and request additional funds, I mean, obviously, like I said, this is only a budget. You guys can change it. But I did not put that into 2027 just because GHI has requested $100,000 from the city. Otherwise, the biggest things probably in the sewer are under expenses, under capital improvements. Like I said, everything the ISG had in our CIPR capital improvement plan, I did put into the budget. So I figured it in so we can have some discussion whether we want to do it. So that's going to be probably the biggest cost in that capital improvements. It's a little over a million dollars, a million three. So that's plugged in. So those are the expenses. Any... That's a good question.

You know, I did notice something that was surprising to me, is that, pardon me, how much time do you spend here at the city hall? No, that's a good thing.

I'm saying he's not getting paid for what he's spending here.

I'm saying he's not getting paid for what he's spending here.

You want me to leave the room? I meant it in a good way.

You're not getting paid for what you're spending here.

So I was thinking, let's say he goes 10 hours a week, which I think is probably extremely conservative. And then if you go 20 times. That would be 200 a week. And then if you do that for 52 weeks, it's 10,400. But I see that the salary is at five or, I mean, I know it's moved up to six this year, but.

He is very conservative. He's not putting in very much for his meetings or, and I know he tends a lot more than what he was in for.

Is that a salary or?

Yeah, that's under salary, yeah. Can we change like an item?

Yeah. I mean, I would like to see it at $12,000, $1,000 every month, but I'll settle for $10,000.

It's just a budget. It's just a budget.

You can settle whatever you want. If you guys all agree and you want me to bump that up.

Because we'd have to change it by ordinance, right? Yes, I was going to say. It's all going to be plugged into the ordinance. So if you don't want to see.

Then we've got to change the ordinance to actually make it happen.

Okay.

And I hope you guys realize I'm not doing this for the. I don't do this for them.

I do it for the accolades. Scott. I don't know if I have to move something, but I'll.

Are you wanting me to bump it up to eight? How is it structured? Isn't there a base and then a per meeting? Yes, it gets so much salary and then you get so much per meeting paid. So do you know what the base currently is?

Because that's probably what we would want to adjust, right?

Let's do that, yeah.

And how many meetings do you go to?

The council band? No, it's more outside stuff.

Yeah, I'd say SMBA and your MBA meetings.

I'm sure your time demands are pretty high. But I don't know. I mean, maybe you think.

Well, I'm... I appreciate your kindness.

And if that's a pain right now, we can just increase it when we get it figured out.

If you want to actually change his salary rate, you guys are going to have to do that by motion. But we can just plug in a different amount.

We haven't changed the meeting pay. Oh, but that's by the company. No, not the meeting pay, but the...

We encourage him. Oh, yeah. That's right. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Then he gets to put in for anything economic. But he still has to claim it. So if he doesn't claim it. Right. How about this? I bump that up to like $8,000 for the ordinance. And like I said, then we can have a future talk about increasing the salary just so we have a higher number in budget.

Sounds good. Just going off memory, I think the mayor gets $1,800 a year, like $900 each. I pay you twice a year.

And the council gets $75 a meeting. And then he gets $1,600 or $1,400.

And I think I get a little more per meeting than what that is.

95, maybe 100 a meeting?

No, you all get straight meetings. I think we get all the same meeting. 100 for a regular meeting, 75 for a special meeting. He just gets a higher salary amount.

Well, we can look at it down the road. I appreciate it, Keith. Thank you.

I'll just add a little bit, and that's what I'll plug into the ordinance.

I should probably just increase that one to 20 grand just for comfort level. I mean, if we're going to give the seniors 20 for staffing. Oh, Travis. Wait a minute.

Are you saying, oh, yeah, I am a senior. I am a senior. Yeah. Cindy's a senior with me right now. Anybody who's retired, let's start there.

All right. Yeah.

Okay, anybody else got any comments on expenses? Now let's keep plowing through. A lot of information.

A lot of information. Okay, so also in your packet then, if we just move down the agenda, you know, the car cash, report is in there. It shows you kind of where we're sitting at right now in cash. And we're sitting in a good position. Like I said, we know that we've got big projects coming up, but our cash position is fairly in a good position here. It's shown on our cash sheet. We do have 200,000 that last year and then in 2023, we set aside 100,000 each committed funds for a pool improvement of some kind or whatnot. So that's kind of restricted. That's shown on our cash sheet there too. And then I also put in the packet, just for your reference, our sales tax revenue report, and you get these each month in your computer box too, but it does show how we're lagging behind a little bit this year.

I just have a quick question on the, if I'm reading this correctly, so we have, as a city, 10 million in the bank? Is that correct? Yep. And I understand that's total. There's probably some funds that are restricted. And I remember Cindy said this last year. We're not a bank, right? What is the recommended amount that we should be sitting on as a city? I mean, I'm just... It's in here somewhere. Okay.

She's probably getting to that, but I just... Yeah, I'm getting to that. But basically, the recommended amount is that you should have three months of operating expense, which... is bare minimum. I'm not recommending you want to go that low on it. That is paying your bare minimum on your bills. Just to stop.

I chuckle because our sales tax is lagging, but our cash position this year is going by $1.5 million.

So maybe we need to go to a 5.28 mill levy and then see what happens. Clearly, clearly. We always hear about the sky is falling. I know.

We're very conservative. That's great. That's good.

I think I can tell you when I started with the city, we had like 500,000 total, so.

That was the goal, was that 500,000 total?

Yes, like, oh my God, if we get fired, that would be great. I should have done it.

We should have asked for it. What was the budget 10 years ago when we got on the city council?

Oh, boy. It was maybe $2 million. It wasn't this, that's for sure. So we're doing very good. Yes. All right. Also in your packet is just our debt schedule, just so you know where we're sitting there. Basically, how much debt a city can take on is restricted by the state. You can only – whatever your assessed value on the city is, you can only basically take out 5% of constitutional debt. So only 5% of that assessed value is what you have in debt, unless you would – there's special circumstances if you go to a vote of the people on something you go up to 10 percent but you know the rule of thumb is five percent of what that assessed value is so um currently if you look at our debt schedule we are only using 33.6 percent of what we could take out for debt so we're good we're staying below 50 we we've got room to take out more debt i guess is what i'm saying um On the flip side, you always remember, the more debt you take out, the more loan payments you gotta do, so that's always an expense every year as well. We do have the two surcharges, though. Those do not count towards our constitutional debt. That's not in that 5% because we are collecting from the residents those surcharges to pay that loan payment. The rest of them, we're relying on other revenue, sales tax, real estate tax, whatever that may be as part of our debt. We're sitting okay there, I believe, on that.

I don't know if this is the time to throw this in, but when I looked at the debt schedule, what I'm looking at is bills that are going to come off. So we have one that's going to come off in April. That's a $76,000 payment. We have another one on 6th and month coming up in April 140. So we look at $210,000 worth of payments that are coming off of $806,000. And I say that in context with Kelly Avenue. Because if we were going to save, we were going to do Kelly Avenue. And we were going to take some out of our reserves or go borrow half of it, a million and a quarter. Not worry about taking it all out, but let's go... private loan or whatever, borrow it, can we fit that into where we're at right now? Absolutely.

I mean, I would look at this death schedule and say, we could do that without any... Yeah, because I fully anticipate we'll have to maybe use some reserves for that project, but definitely we would have to loan a portion of it, whether it be a loan, a bond, or whatnot that would go against our debt.

Right, but we could do that even on a private loan basis and be really...

not change our cash position.

Just so you, when I looked at this the last couple days, that was one thing that I was kind of balancing, just saying, hey, if we want to do this, after we have our meeting with the Kellyanne folks, if we can get everybody on the same page, we might have the opportunity to have that as a presentation.

Can I just add one thing? Yep. I would be curious on just the appetite of the council, since we are sitting on cash, if there's any, would, I mean, would we ever want to be proactive and knock out a couple of small debts? Is that, I mean, I, we don't have a robust discussion on that right now, but it's something to think about. We got some cash, you know, is there anything that we would say, Hey, this is a, that makes sense to write this $200,000 check and be done with it.

I did look at that too, Sean.

Me and Karen talked a little bit today. That is something you can do, but I think for the most part, the interest we got in the loans are fairly reasonable. And the money sitting in the bank, it's making more sitting there, so it may be better to make more in the bank than... So there's two ways.

So, yeah. I mean, could we do that? Sure. But I'm looking more, is it, do we have a better chance with the ones that are coming off to basically replace those loans with something else that gets us an imposition?

You wouldn't really notice as much.

Yeah. Get us another project done in a fairly reasonable fashion. Six a month would be nice because that's a pretty... So anyway, all right.

Anything else on that? I guess the next thing down there is capital improvement plan and just kind of put it in there for your reference. Like I said, everything in the 2027 column, I did put into the budget figures that I presented to you. So they're in there already. Now it'll be up to the council whether you, you know, keep them in or not, or keep them in and whether you pay them out or not, that's to be determined too. Like we talked about, you know, the Kelly out of the project, there is money in the budget. Whether we decide to do a project or not, it's not going to affect anything because it's all a little fund in there. The Sagehorn lift station rehab, there's a small amount in there for that. That's in the sewer expenses for that. The demoing of the main lift stations, that's the one we have along railroad and the Mickelson lift station, that's about a half a million dollars. That's one of those capital improvements that's in that sewer department that I pointed out. So that's kind of a bigger expense. With that in mind, though, do we have to do that next year? They're just sitting there. They're not hurting anything. They're empty. We don't if we don't want to, but I put them into I have appeared in the sewer department.

Can we use, cause obviously that ground is privately owned now. Can we use money out of the sewer fund for remediation on a privately owned property?

We have to transfer the money to Gateway Heart.

If we did that, we would take it out of our sewer fund like we have.

I just don't think government has restrictions on that. Same way that if they cannot get it remediated, they can turn around and give the land back to us. It cuts both ways. Ultimately, the city's responsible to get it remediated, no matter what. I know their names on the deed, but it's still our baby until it's done. Craig, if you had your druthers, that Mickelson lift station's not very old. I mean, is it hurt-ness if we leave that?

It's abandoned right now. So part of the plan with the Sageward lift station that we're looking into is see if we can utilize components out of that lift station and put them into the sage horn lift station. So that's your plan. We're hoping we can take some components are there and put them over here.

And they'd be newer than the Sagehorn one. The Sagehorn needs to be rehabbed.

And if we can, there's gotta be a city, we could probably auction some of the stuff off, I would imagine, maybe.

It's hard to sell and stuff like that. Everybody's in their own unique ways. We're still looking to see if the pumps are gonna work. Interchangeable. If we can use electronics out of that, the skaters, you know, stuff like that.

Would that reduce that Sagehorn number any, do you think? Maybe, some, not much. But you inherit someone's problem, potentially.

What's that? But you can inherit someone's problem, potentially, trying to salvage something from somewhere. You're out of warranty at that point. I think the cons are a lot higher than the pros. I'm trying to move that. I'm trying to repurpose something.

Both those lifts, the building, the old plant, it's been pretty much empty for 25 years. Right. Can it sit another year or two? Yeah. You know, it ain't hurting none. It's just, if you want the eyesore in the park, you're making it a park area. Correct. Yeah. And the other one, Mickelson Road, how does that deal with assils on that? Do we even? He gifted it to us.

I did. That's our land.

So we want to leave that with the siren and power up. Correct.

Yeah. If we had to, I, you know, I... We could leave that set there for a long time.

We need a little money to sterilize that so it doesn't grow weeds.

So this is for, that number is to do both lift stations. So we could just do one. You could, yeah, you could redo this by doing one. Maybe leave the Mickelson one and just get rid of the older one.

Chair, no, just one of the buildings down there, like the plant part.

Yeah, so I mean, this is to do the whole thing, everything. next year. We don't have to do that, you know, so we put it in budget and we could actually spend it when the time comes.

There's a gate there. It's flat. They took the generator out, so you really got luck. Oh, yeah, that's the one. You don't even know it's there almost.

Almost more like it's just for the weather siren. Correct, that's right. Correct. That's what, yeah.

You don't even hardly know it's there.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. It needs to be sterilized. Yeah. That doesn't look so, yeah. Can we park city equipment in there? What's that? Can we park city equipment in there?

Yeah.

Sitting outside. Let's put a building in there.

And now we move on. And now we move on. Yeah, don't get him thinking that. All right, anything else we need to know on the CIP?

Do you have any more questions on the CIP? We are going to look at this again tomorrow night in a little more detail. It's on the agenda.

Yeah, there's some scary big numbers coming up if you look down farther down the years.

Yes, there is. In future years. Yike. Oh, come on.

Bad enough.

Then the next sheet in your packet basically is an estimate of our fund balance at the end of this year. So basically I took where we're sitting at now, looked at what we have budgeted for revenues yet to come in, what we have budgeted for expenses yet to go out, I factored on if we need to do any transfers between any accounts in there, any known factors in that. And that first blue line, if you look on that, that's where I expect if, like I said, revenues come in like we think and expenses go out like we think, where I expect us to be at the end of the year this year. And like, to your point, Shawn, the second blue line, that shows the number we should have at a very minimum in reserves. And it's very like three months. Yeah, we're sitting well.

We'll figure out something to do with that, though. Don't worry.

Look at the CIP. I did look at it, yeah. We're saving.

I saw the $28 million Western Avenue project coming up in my lifetime.

It'll be $50 million by then. When we get down here ways to budget requests, I got an idea. Oh, boy.

All right, let the fun begin.

Yeah, so now's the fun. So basically the next sheet then is staff requests. Basically from the park and rec board and then what we see as staff. You know, you've got the requests from the other entities, but... If you look at what the staff requests are, the Park and Recreation Board, I put in there, in total, they're requesting about $270,000. What that's going to go to is they're looking at two more pickleball courts out in the park area right next to where we got them. If we do move forward, that gives us a total of six courts out there with the two we already have, the two we're putting in this year, and two more. And that would be the maximum room we have right for that so that would basically finish off that area. They're also looking at doing a new basketball court in Lyons Park there as well. Ours is getting pretty tattered and torn and that would include all cement, the paint, new poles, nets, everything is what we're figuring there. They're also looking at just some little upgrades to the city park and Turtle Creek Park. They're talking about putting in like those little sand diggers, like play items that the kids can go on and then doing some miscellaneous concrete work for like 7,000. We're looking at a couple of the shade structures for at the pool. Probably one that will be in the larger pool on the shallower end somewhere there, and then one with the wading pool. That's about 65,000. And then some miscellaneous improvements out at Swenson Park. And what this would be, partial irrigation system, some more handicap parking, like by the Flake Football Park area, and then some additional concrete work out there for a total of about 80,000. So that's where the 270,000 comes from.

So, I've had some initial conversations, Craig, Travis I know has talked to Jed Young, I've talked to him. We'd really like to get lights on one of those fields out there. I thought we'd stumbled into a pretty good deal and all of a sudden it went upside down. Brandon, the city of Brandon was taking down their light poles and Brandon Lane from Sioux Valley said, hey, you guys can haul these, you can get them. So I asked Craig and we said, yeah, we can get these poles for free, let's go. So I called Brandon this morning and said, hey, we're ready to go. Okay, let me call the guy at Brandon Parks Department and I'll call you back. Calls me back and he says, you're not going to believe this. He said they had somebody from a rodeo grounds out west, snapped them, sent a truck, they're gone. So that happened from Wednesday till today. So yeah, that was kind of too bad. Anyway. I kind of charged Brandon Lane with Sioux Valley since they're an electric company and they have a supplier to us. I said, get your eyes out there and see what's going on. I said, if you can find them, we'll figure out a way to get them home. We can get the poles for free and work a deal with Sioux Valley to set them. We can be a ways toward getting lights out on one field. So I saved all of that. Is that something, from a council standpoint, that you guys would feel comfortable if we said, hey, let's throw another, I don't know, Travis, you could probably give me a better idea. Could we throw 100,000 in there? Would that get us anyway? More than that, couple hundred?

Are you talking about the safer side? Huh?

You know, that's always been the number, but I don't know that that's the number anymore. I think it's LED lighting has gotten cheaper. Talking with Mark Anderson, he thought we could be under a million, and we're doing a field in Worthington, and I'm pretty sure they didn't spend a million dollars on those lights. You can just do more with less now as well. You don't need as many. I think 500,000 is probably a realistic number. It's half as much as what Craig was thinking, if you look at it that way.

We're lighting one of the, one ball field.

It's about $100,000 a pole plus some electrical.

But there's a sprinkler system out there also. Right. And that's a quarter billion as an alternative.

If we do all their system.

I mean, if we're really honest, when we first got on, man, Swenson Park took a lot of our time. Yeah. We spent a lot of time trying to navigate how to make those improvements out there. But if we were really being honest, we should have earmarked about $23 million and just done that whole thing, you know, years ago. Years ago, right? And just been done with it. Now that's substantially more than we probably needed. Maybe we could have got it done for $13 million. I don't remember what that number was initially, but it was big. And it was way more than the city council was willing to tackle. You see a lot of communities that do it and they pay the debt on it for years. And it sits there, you drive by for months on end and it's just empty. And a lot of other communities are pulling sugar on it. It is one of those things that needs to happen. We are not by any stretch excessive, flamboyant, out of our minds. There's a huge demand here for for those.

I guess I was thinking, how far does a one lighted field get you? I mean, if you're going to light so you can do... 25% of the way.

Tournaments and stuff.

I mean, maybe you don't need all four to the end of the day or whatever, but if you're going to play tournaments or something, that's why we're lighting it for, like, you need at least a couple.

Well, I say it's Indy because it gets us a start. It's more than what we have right now, which is nothing. Yeah.

I think two fields really get used up. The other, the two far east ones, don't get much use out of. So, you know, lights would be good for two of them. I don't know if you need all four either.

I don't know that we're ready to...

I'd like to see them all four used more often during the day before we...

Although we don't have any tournaments this year. We had the one last year.

And here's the other thing. And maybe we don't do anything with the budget or with the park and rec's request and we leave it where it is. But we keep plowing forward. Craig's now in the loop on what we're looking at here. And maybe we'll just keep hammering away at Sioux Valley and see what we can do about getting us part of the way there.

I think irrigation would be huge.

Yeah.

Just to keep the fields, I mean, keep them good and playable. We've been watering the flag football because that gets so beat up if you don't get it watered. Right, right. And we've just been doing that with the system we put together just to water it.

Right.

So Teresa, sort of a, I'm sure a logistics question, but what happens with the money that they get for advertising on those fields? Does it go right to the city? Because it makes sense to me if they're getting the advertising revenue, that it should go back. If they're doing the fundraising, they should go back into the parking recreation.

So it's all part of the general fund. You can't earmark anybody coming in. So the money for the advertising is going to the general fund. Sure. And then the money you pay out to the Park and Rec Board comes out of the general fund. So it's up to you guys to. So what did they bring in?

It's like 25. Duncan, was it 40? Duncan, I mean, crushed it. I mean, they should. It was like 80.

Over the next three years, it was like $85,000. Over three years? Yeah.

It was a three-year contract, right?

Yeah, the three-year contract. No. $75,000? Something like that.

If you bring it in every year.

With that being, but still, $85,000. Over three years, it's just to say for easy math, it's $30,000. Their ask is the same as it was last year, and in theory, they've got an extra $30,000 in advertising.

Aren't they asking for less?

Yeah, they asked for $300,000 last year.

They asked for $270,000 last year, and I increased it to $300,000. I increased it to $300,000. So they're very conservative as well.

What's the discussion on this shade structure for the pool?

Yeah, I'd be curious about that. There is none. There's no shade. Right, yeah, there is no shade.

Is this the big canvas things, or what is it? I think what they've looked at, Craig and...

Permanent structure that you just take the... cover off, but everything else, the poles are all cement.

Yeah, some cement poles. And then some tarps that would, like they have at Sherman Park.

That's what they're talking about, just trying to get some shade out there.

It's kind of like what they have at Sherman Park in Sioux Falls.

And the apartment folds into the ground, and then like an awning and shades that would come out. or something like that. They haven't spelled, you know, haven't knelt down what exactly it is.

Did they ever get the journal thing fixed? They did.

Thank you Craig for getting the temporary.

It's not hot in the morning, we can handle it.

All good. Unless the water's cold. I tell you what, though.

Except if the water's cold. You know, as bad as people like to talk about it, I mean, I go out there with my kids, and that's a tremendous asset to the community. I mean, it's amazing.

And it's really not that bad.

It's not a bad pool. No. It's just too small.

It's hard to find a pool. Just, I want a pool.

You know, everybody wants a pool. Right, most of them are water parks, walking tracks, or whatever you want to have.

Slash park.

Well, anyway, let's just leave it. I just wanted to throw that out because I've kind of been behind the scenes working on that.

The thing is, if we ever come across something like that, you guys can allocate the money.

Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. If we got to a point where we really came up with a deal, yeah.

So we're not going to adjust anything?

I don't think we'd adjust it. If we find something, Keith, we'll just say, hey, we can just allocate the money and take it out of...

Could we in good faith increase that ask to like a million bucks and then if there's an opportunity to send a truck over to Brandon or some other community to pick up light poles, we don't have to think about it. We can just say, we got the money, let's get it done. It's just a budget number as we grew our general fund by 1.5.

Yeah. I would feel more comfortable if there's an opportunity that comes across and let's talk about it.

It's too late. If you were to add an item out there though.

I think the irrigation is going to be one of the huge things out there.

It would definitely be a good investment in the irrigation.

Then you know what? Solid Rock Recruiting and Travis Electric can make an in-kind donation to the city.

We're going to do irrigation or at least think about it. Then we're looking at about 250 or is it 225 or something? It was close. It was something like that.

Why do they have new irrigation systems? That's for one field.

It's just partial irrigation. It's just for one ball field.

One ball field irrigating.

the 250 or whatever it was that they had out there was right here i would think that that's all moving towards a irrigation system out there so i think we could increase that budget especially with some of their revenue coming in and helping out i know it's not uh 250 000 but

then a person's going to remember when you irrigate, your water bill's going up. Your water bill's going up, too. Expensive utilities are going to start to climb. It's catch-22, but I mean, you need to have good grass out there on a sports ground. Right. Because if you don't keep them watered and that stuff, they said they'll get tore up. You'll have a hard time getting that grass to come back to replant.

I mean, I wouldn't have a problem, especially with the fundraising that they did through the sponsorships. I mean to keep them at, I know they're asking for 270 to keep them at 300. And then maybe we need to ask them to think bigger and get some real plans for like whether it's a stage plan or a big bang plan for some lights and irrigation in the upcoming years.

There's currently some rodeo grounds out West River that has nicer lights than we do.

They have poles.

They got poles. They have lights on them too.

I'd be okay if we even bought some used poles and just get something out there, but I don't know if that's a good long-term.

That's a classic Hartford mentality. We'll just put some used stuff out there. Well, there's nothing out there, so it'd be better than not having any. There's new stuff out there. Yeah.

what do you mean just start putting it in maybe not for next year or start with 100 000 this year and then 100 000 for the following year or i mean we're doing that with the pool i mean if you guys want to do that a sports complex fund we'd like to we're doing a pool and if you want to designate a hundred thousand for sports complex improvements i mean i'd like to up them to their 300 uh and

I think encourage them to come back with some planning around those big improvements. Like realistic, you know, getting numbers and figuring out for next budget year. I agree with the 300.

I would just like to see it used more during the day to even start thinking about lighting it up at night. I mean, otherwise we're lighting it up and it's still not being used, all four. I'd just like to see it used before we start putting money towards the lighting.

One comment that was made as I was circling a petition would be easier access to the restrooms at Turtle Creek, like another bridge perhaps. And so I don't know. That's probably way cheaper than... But we can't put a bridge without it being engineered because it's in a floodplain. It gets expensive. Maybe cheaper to put a bathroom on the south side.

Or a little wall field. That comes straight across to the...

and build a whole nother building.

We've got some porta-potties on the south side currently, right?

We do have porta-potties there.

All right, let's keep this a side track.

Okay, so we can move into other staff requests. Our street sweeper is currently 2008, so it's many years old. We've gotten a lot of good use out of it, but a new street sweeper is about time for one, is 290,000. Craig believes we can probably get $30,000 to $50,000 at auction for our old ones, so just keep that in mind. We are also looking at, we'd like to replace two pickup trucks for the Public Works Department. These will be used trucks, but if we can, about $15,000 each, if we can get two for $30,000, that would replace Terry's, the one he's currently using, which is a 2003, and Jesse's, which is a 2006. Craig thought we might get about $6,000 total for both of those. They're old and not in the best shape. not a high auction item there, but we could get something probably from that.

And that $30,000 would be split with the water and the sewer, so it would be $90,000.

Yeah, yeah. I'm just going, sorry, I should clarify that. That's $30,000 out of the general, be $30,000 with water, $30,000 out of sewer, so $90,000. Then also it's general. We're suggesting putting some money away for sewer detention maintenance. It looks like we are moving that way. We'll have to do some kind of, whether we take over new ones and have to do some mowing or whatnot. We threw in a dollar amount of $30,000. That can be adjusted. Also, we suggest putting some funds away for a possible sidewalk rebate program of some sort. $50,000 there, that one can be adjusted as well. Some kind of program to help people either the maintenance with it or to encourage them to put in new sidewalks and we we did that i think i mentioned before a few years ago several years ago when i kind of started with the city we had a rebate program and basically it kind of ended up we paid so much up but it was about 50 50. the homeowner paid 50 the city paid 50 is what it kind of came down to but some kind of program And then possibly doing a little more landscaping around our other two existing welcome signs. We don't have much area around them, and we're not sure how much the DOT will let us put along Highway 38, but maybe we can dress them up a little bit more too. So that should be minimal, maybe about 7,000.

I would like the council to consider changing the... detention pond number, probably I'm gonna drop it from what I had originally thought. I would like to see us put an extra 100,000 in that, and the sidewalk fund, rather than be 50,000, I'd like to put another 200,000 in that and make that a quarter million. If we're going to be serious about our sidewalk program, we got to get some money in there. So I would like the council to consider when we go to motions that we would add 100 to the detention, 200,000 to the sidewalk program.

What's with the, just on the detention, what's significant? It's a lot of money.

Yeah. We don't need to spend the money. I'm just saying let's get it in the budget because if we... get to, and we're going to talk about detention ponds more tomorrow night. I don't want to jump in to tomorrow night's agenda, but I would like, we don't have to do it. I'm just saying, I'm trying to be proactive and be ready if we are going to go forward with taking over those ponds.

So you're thinking 130 for detention ponds and 250 for...

Yes, ma'am. That's what you're suggesting.

Craig, with that extra work, would you need another person?

Ten guys.

or to grow out more.

Money you should ask. We've got a couple other things we want to ask. Make it to the back end.

That's a lot of work. I mean, if you're talking about adding that much money, then that's probably more work than...

I think we're really going to get into detention bonds tomorrow night. Since this is budget time, I wanted to at least... have you guys think about that because we're going to talk about detention bonds tomorrow night up to and including we're going to set up a committee from the council to talk about

So, like I said, there's a couple other items that me and Craig have kind of talked about. One kind of spurred from the mayor. He asked about repainting the old water tower that we have here. It's kind of a glorified cell tower because that's what it is. It's not glorified. It is a cell tower. We don't use the water tower, but we get money, at least money off it because it's got a cell tower for Verizon on it.

Can you set up the naming rights for that?

I want to pull one of our logos on there.

No, I'm 100% serious on this. I mean, if Duncan can go out there and then we can put on a shielded water tower, you can see it from the Swenson Field. I mean, then why would we paint it that will let shields be there? I mean, that's just an example. I like where you're thinking, dude. 500% of our water.

How much do we get in lease from it? It doesn't matter because it's too expensive to tear down.

That's what you're going to tell me.

I was going to say, it really doesn't matter because that's the cost is the tearing down of it.

Even if you gave it to another city, it would be hard to even give it away.

We get about $20,000 a year at least. And like I said, the costly part, though, is tearing it down. We talked to ISG. They figure it's going to be about $100,000 to paint it. And they did talk.

Because they didn't listen to me the day I said it.

They did talk with the buyer to see if they can be done. They're so busy this year. We thought, could we do it this year with some of our funds? They're way too busy. So it sounds like next year would be the soonest. So maybe that's something we want to put into the budget then, if we want to do that.

That would be a... I think that $100,000 better get bumped up. They didn't actually go back to McGuire and see if they'd go below the $100,000 so we could just hire them and get it done with them. They just said they were too busy. Yeah.

Nobody listens to me when I said, what did I tell them that day they were here? Nobody listens. Sounds like a senior project.

Is there any more about selling the naming rights to that water tower? Could we if you would?

If you can get somebody to do it.

I wanted to have another Hartford Live Lively logo on it. Okay. Hartford Live Lively. So Hartford Live Lively on the south side and naming rights on the north side. Can.

I'd be okay with that, but facing this highway, I wanted to say that Hartford Live Lively. Nobody listens to me. Colored lights.

I was going to say, let's get more creative. Let's light that thing up.

No, let's get it pink, not blue. Let's get it white. Oh. Nobody listens to me. Nobody listens to me.

Okay, and so the last consideration, we have one more consideration that's not in there that me and Craig have been talking about. It came up last week. So we have a part-time public works person that's been three years now? Two years. Two years now. That does an excellent job. Usually they quit at the end of the summer and they've been working part-time at school or going to school and are working at school too. This year they said if we ever have an opening in the city, they were wondering if we'd consider keeping them on. And they're a good worker. Like you said, we are getting busier. They don't need their handheld. They see something needs to be done. They do it. I think it would be an excellent time to bring another person out in the public works. Terry was still gone. I'm not sure how long he is going to continue to be with the city. When we need somebody, it seems like it's hard to find somebody. Now we have an opportunity to, someone who's been working two years, knows what to do, has initiative to do it. I think it would be a wonderful time to...

I think I know what you're talking about, and I've interacted with that person, and they were very good at doing something on Main Street. So I think I know what you're talking about. Is there enough... I mean, the question is, right? I mean... Yeah, obviously got enough work.

We could be busy. I mean, yeah, definitely during the spring, fall, summer, you know, summer, fall. But the wintertime, there's always stuff to do, maintenance and that stuff and things like that. As we're growing.

And it would be nice to keep that street sweeper just running every day.

I love clean streets.

Well, this person... would be a very strong future employee for the town.

And I think we could budget $50,000 into next year's budget.

Because there's already some money in the budget for the part-time salary. Right. So include the part-time salary in that. Kind of gets them to full-time.

Would that eliminate some of the need for part-time employees in the summer? I mean... It just depends on how the city keeps growing.

We don't get any of our stuff done until after the mowing season's done or like that. So now we're just trying to get caught up from just the summer activities that we've been taking care of and doing.

Do we ever spray any growth retardant on our grass?

if you don't have water all right

I feel like that's a no-brainer.

I'd say the consensus is that, yes, you guys could probably add that into the budget and nobody's going to... Before we look at it again? We're always open to hiring good people.

Well, we'll have further discussion about this year. Tomorrow, maybe. Tomorrow, maybe. Okay. This will take care of it. Okay. So now here comes the fun part of the evening where you guys... The next sheet is the requests that were presented to you guys last month from the other entities. So now the discussion is what do you want to add into the budget?

Karen's got her little spreadsheet there to kind of help tell you where you're at. So this top line, I have each of the funds, the sewer, the water, the third penny, and the general. This top line is when we look at what Teresa's put in her reports, the excess revenue over expenses.

They're on this screen, Scott. Just like the good old days.

Yeah, this is a hell of a better than what we had in the old days.

Okay, so that first line is where we're sitting with the budgets Teresa just presented. So in the general work, revenues are exceeding expenses. Third penny, same water, same sewer. We are the opposite, and a lot of that has to do with those capital projects that Teresa has in there for the CIP. so and then this area as you guys make your motions i'll subtract out and it'll have a running balance of where we're at with those funds and then at the bottom here we have on the sheet where theresa projected what our fund balances would be at the end of this year that's these numbers here these beginning balances for 2027. and then it'll pull in the over under what we have left after your motion and show us what our ending reserve would be. So you kind of have a running total in your head.

All right. Okay, the beginning reserve is at 67 because that's a percentage of the total in the general, correct?

No, that was... That's what I just saw. Where we're at with cash now, will we expect to get in and will we expect to pay out?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, we expect to be at the end of the year. So I'm kind of trying to show you where we would end up at the next year based on...

So we need to start with the city and park and rec requests? Start anywhere you want to. And remind me, like for parking rent, do we have to go item by item or just the total? You can do the total.

Just the total. Does it come back to you to get funds for these projects? Yeah.

It's just a motion, second, and a vote. Yep. This just kind of puts it into our budget worksheet. We will actually pass an ordinance next month.

Okay, so if we're going back, we go back to the city parking rack ones, right? We have to do those also?

Yeah.

They're not in the budget per se.

I'd start with, I'd make a motion to put $290,000 into the budget for the new streets. Or no, do we need to do...

streets all together you can do this whole are you are you starting down there at streets or at the i was going to start there but you could do the can you do the whole park and record you can do all together because it's one light or the street or the staff request things under staff requests if you can do you know for the sweep or for the right the pickups or for that's easy because some of those are split between also i was going to say i thought we talked about doing landscaping all together for all the signs this year yeah So you released funds to do the landscaping that went along Highway 38 to the east, but we haven't.

I thought when I asked why we were just doing that one.

Because we don't want to jump into anything. I mean, it's landscaping.

Can't we just do it this year? And do it all at once. And that is something you can do if you guys, if you want to. It seems silly to break it up. It's only, like I said, it's minimal. So you don't want to look at doing it this year. I'm just going to say, I think that should just get done all at the same time. So I'm going to go back to my motion for the new street sweeper for $290,000.

All right, we have a motion on the floor for 290,000 for the new street sweeper. Do we have a second for that? I'll second that. Any discussion?

Quick question. How bad is the current one we have? Because I just don't know about anything.

There's a lot of moving parts on them. You just don't know when they're going to break. I mean, it's 2008. It's got hours on it. You just, it's one of those, I mean, it's well taken care of, but.

You just feel probably a good time to sell it before something major happens.

Right now, you'll still get some money out of it.

We've had it since 2008?

We bought it brand new in 2008. Okay.

There's a rodeo arena out in West River that's full of content. Stop with the rodeo arena.

Stop with the rodeo arena. Okay. Any other discussion? If not, we'll vote. Schilling. Yes. Horacek. Yes. Keel. Yes. Bowen. Yes.

Madsen. Yes.

Carlson.

Yes. All right. Motion to approve 30,000 for two additional trucks for Public Works.

Second. Out of each fund?

Out of each fund.

Out of each, yeah.

Okay. Second again.

Yeah, okay. Any discussion? Hearing none, we'll vote. Carlson? Yes. Matson? Yes. Mullin? No. Keel? Yes. Horacek? Yes. Schilling? Yes. All right. And we'll see the brick wall we hit now.

Yeah.

I'm going to switch gears, and I'm going to jump down, and I'm going to approve $238,500 for the four requests, those being Humboldt Ambulance, Hartford Fire and Rescue, Gateway Hartford, Inc., and Downtown Hartford, Inc., as presented from the general fund.

Second. All right. So the motion is... 32.5 for Humber Ambulance, 100,000 for Hartford Fire, 6,000 for downtown Hartford, and 100,000 for Gateway Hartford for our total of? 238,500. Can I ask a question? Yep. Do we have a second? I second.

Okay, go ahead. Can downtown Hartford go under third penny?

Yes, because it's marketing for the city. Promotional.

Why don't we move it there since it's restricted with the other things.

I move to amend my motion to be $232,500 for the three entities, Humboldt Air Ambulance for $325,000, Hartford Fire and Rescue for $100,000, Gateway Hartford, Inc. for $100,000. Second.

Second. Clarifying question on that. So yeah, just to clarify, we can use a third penny for DHI, correct? That's marketing our city.

As long as they're doing stuff for promotion. Promotion.

I just wanted to clarify that, but yes.

I think we can argue that.

I'm just curious why we, I guess I'm just curious why that wasn't.

We've always done that downtown because they've done. various things, but I think this year's request is marketing and promotion, so you can definitely put it under third penny. I mean, they put up lights before and stuff like that, so it wasn't always promotions, but this year's request is marketing, so I think it can definitely come out of third penny.

It's only as good as the information we're provided, right? Correct.

All right. Any more discussion on this one?

Any more discussion? None. We'll vote. Schilling. Yes. Prachak. Yes. Keel. Yes. Bowen. Yes.

Madsen.

Yes. Carlson. Yes. All right.

So just to clean that up, I'd like to make a motion to approve 6,000 from our third penny sales tax return on Hartford Inc. Second.

Any discussion? Hearing none, we'll vote. Carlson. Yes. Madsen. Yes. Bowen. Yes. Keel. Yes. Prachak. Yes. Schilling. Yes. All right.

Can I ask a question on the pickleball courts? Sure. Because we just built two more. So probably just me being dumb. I mean, I'm not out there all the time. Travis, you might have information. Obviously, if you're wiping on this, I don't want to. Are those getting used a lot? Six is a lot. And so do we...

it's 12 people is really all, that's only, if you have six courts, you're only catering to 12 people. And so I've seen the current courts, while they have been busy, because they're not painted yet, but.

Yeah, they're getting done now, but I think from what I've been hearing, I mean, when I see them in summertime, they're busy. I think the current courts are being busy. I do hear people say that they see them busy all the time. Okay.

And I'm sure the parking rec, it's tied in, so they have their, yeah. Okay.

Addition of the bump on that second bunch on third penny Not yet.

You just did the one Since you took us back to Park and Rec I make a motion to for $300,000 for the Park and Rec board Second any discussion on this one.

I'd like to make an amendment to that if possible I would like I think it would be nice to have a camera in that area actually pointing on these courts. I don't know. We got cameras pointing at the playground stuff I think is where the newest one is at. It would be nice to approve that, but also to have a line for maybe we don't even have to have a line item, but it would be nice to have a camera in that vicinity of what's going on there.

Well, with that motion, they'll have $30,000. Right. So I think that would be something to communicate to them. Let the board know. I mean, he's on the board.

That really should be under park and maintenance and stuff like that. Right. Right.

Because that's how we paid for the other. Right.

Out of the park and rec. I don't think it's capital improvement.

This is more of a maintenance of the parks.

The cameras are, yeah. They are. Okay, that makes sense.

And we do have miscellaneous funds in there, so I think we can come right next to the camera if that's the route we want to go.

Yeah. Any other discussion? So the motion in second was $300,000, correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. Hearing none, we'll vote Schilling. Yes. Project. Yes. Keel. Yes. Bowen. Yes. Matson. Yes. Carlson. All right.

Better late than never.

All right. Okay, so we did pickups. We did that. We're moving landscaping back to this year.

So I missed budget. I missed the special budget meeting with these groups. And I was just curious, because some of the amounts are more and some of the amounts are less. And HADF is 35 instead of 25. Can someone?

Yeah, we have some additional information on that. Blair happened to call in, correct?

Well, he emailed me about the meeting tonight, seeing if they had to be present again. I said, well, you presented your request last month, so we don't anticipate any discussion with it. We wanted to clarify, because Art had asked me, so they requested $35,000. $25,000 would be for an ED director, like we're doing this year. We wanted to clarify, are they asking $25,000 For them to pay their share, and then the city's got to pay another $25,000 to SMG? Or is that $25,000 the city's share? And he did clarify, it's just the city's share. The HADF and 10 do pay their $25,000.

They're going to come and check for $50,000.

Yes, they're going to check for $50,000. We're going to give them $25,000. They're getting $25,000 from us, and they're going to take out of their own reserves the other $25,000. Correct. Okay. They're not expecting the city to pay no full 50. And then from what I remember, the other 10,000 was operating expense, I guess you'd say, for their mowing costs up there. Isn't that what they requested at the meeting?

For mowing where?

Up at that industrial park. All that industrial park.

So then I have a quick question. Earlier in the expenses, we had, there was like a 15,000 in fees that we pay for them to maintain the detention pond that is not being maintained correct and now 10 000 is being asked for expenses for mowing correct they're going to use a chunk of that this week um so just to kind of bring you up

They have not been mowing. They've been sent three letters about mowing. We have gotten no reply whatsoever, not even why they can't do it or what not. So they've gotten the three letters, they've gotten a fine, still haven't done it, and time frames to get stuff done, haven't contacted us, so we have a work order in for the guys to go up there and mow it, and we will bill them. But we're already paying for it.

Yeah. Sorry.

Yeah, next year. That's disappointing. so with that information in hand it's just i mean the 25 000 that we're paying for this year for the ed is i mean it's tbd really we don't know if that's going to work not work but i don't i don't think we want to not budget that for next year no i'm all for that

But I have no problem. Okay. I would make a motion for $25,000 for half of the cost for the SMGA part-time economic director to AJDF out of the third penny fund. Second.

All right. The request is $35,000, correct?

Right.

What about $35,000?

They requested 35, but she's motioning for 25.

Yeah.

Any discussion?

I would, yeah. So they have not responded to any letters up until today.

The response was the city created a work order to do the work Any other discussion

This is for 25 for AJDF, correct? Michelle? Yes.

And again, that is contingent upon the fact of whether or not, you know. Yeah, well, yeah, sure. It's just putting it in.

Correct.

Whether we pay it out, that's another.

Correct. All right. Hearing nothing else, we'll vote. Carlson? Yes. Matson? Yes. Vaughn? Yes. Keel? Yes. Horace? Yes. Shelley? Yes. Okay. So that leaves Jamboree Hometown Christmas Chamber back up at the top, the detention ponds, and the sidewalk fund.

Do we have another group in town that requests money from us that's so difficult to work with? Okay, enough said.

I was curious why the chamber is less.

Oh, they said they're able to be more self-sufficient.

Yes. Which is great. Fantastic. Yeah? Yep.

The other changes are pretty amazing.

Did we approve those three?

Nope. Nope, we got you. Oh, okay.

Jamboree, Hometown Christmas, and Chamber are still pending.

Can we do those as a group? Yep. I'll motion for that we pass the Jamboree Days, Hometown Christmas, and Chamber of Commerce for the amounts requested, which would be $40,500. That's a good amount to be...

Do we have a second? All second. Okay, we got two seconds. Okay, any discussion? Hearing none, we'll vote. Shelly? Yes. Prochek? Yes. Keel? Yes. Bowen? Yes. Mattson? Yes. Carlson? Yes. Okay, then the only two things left on this list is the...

The detention pond and the sidewalk. I don't want to get into detention. If you could... Because it is a significant increase, because it's $100,000 in addition to the 30, right? Yeah. And I wasn't at the 80 to 10. Yeah. It's a significant increase of what was originally budgeted. That's right. So it would be helpful to have a little bit. And maybe, Craig, you can speak to this as well. Yeah. because it'd be 130,000 versus 30. Maybe I'm just totally oblivious of what goes. Are we looking at some detention ponds that need to be dredged out? There's got to be a hole.

No, I'm not looking at it, but yeah. So, Sean, this detention pond is so new for all of us to take into account. Right. It's not just mowing and cutting down the weeds, you're saying?

And there's guidelines that are going to have to be put in place. And again, I don't want to jump ahead to tomorrow night's meeting. And maybe I jump the gun, maybe we just throw that away for now. Would that buy like one robot mower?

they gotta be shaped up before they can be right well will we be taking over a new one next year i mean if they've got to be shaped up then that i agree that it's pointless that's but

I think when we came up with the $30,000, it was just what we thought it was going to take, if Jans Corporation gets their stuff over to us. And we're taking over a newer. To mow. Yeah, to mow and keep it cleaned up and that stuff.

So I'll ask again, how much is a high sale?

I priced one a few years ago. I just had a salesman come on. I actually couldn't even watch him. I just had to head out of town. They make one, I think it's around that $40,000, $50,000, but it's all remote control, so it's light. It was new at the time, I don't know if they work. So that's the other thing.

I don't think a remote control mower does what a remote, especially if it's something like a detention pod. You're probably going to answer somebody there watching it anyway.

But Arden, just a quick question without going too deep into this. Yeah. that's you're planning for and i understand it's just a budget but would this also be with existing potentially existing ones right is that that's part of your logic behind that increase correct but hey hey i'm used to disappointment so whatever

That's the nature of being mayor. I'm used to this.

I have lots of opinions. I'll save for another meeting. Yep, save them for another meeting. I'll make a motion. The only thing I would think is if there is a brand new one that meets standards that we set that we would have to maintain, what are we spending to maintain it? And if it's a mower or something that we can plan for, I'm all for it.

But if it's just like... We've had quite a few discussions with the mayor, staff, and ISG and they've got it kind of broken down what they figured man hours gonna be, what it's gonna take to do maintenance on it, what it's gonna take if you have to clean it out every so often. There's all kinds of numbers.

So with this, the maintenance includes the mowing, all of that, but we don't even track we don't even track internally how much we spend on mowing. We don't even track right now. So I've talked about that before, like a tracking thing. We don't even know how much time we spend up mowing. We have an idea.

So when you cut a work order to go do this mowing tomorrow, that will be tracked. That will be tracked, yeah.

but not on the normal stuff. I brought that up. Maybe I can make that a budget item.

If we know something specific we'll need maybe to take over one that's in a standard, I would be interested in putting something in if it's just like

I think Craig said a mouthful when he said it's so brand new to us. I don't know that we know yet what we don't know.

I'll make a motion to pass for the storm sewer detention maintenance. I'll make a motion to pass that to budget up to $75,000. I'll second.

Okay. Any more discussion on that? Hearing none, we'll vote. Carlson. Yes. Mattson? No. Bowen? Yes. Keel? Yes. Horacek? Yes. Shelly? Yes. All right. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who voted.

I don't want to score. I think this conversation will bring up a good point of like, and I brought it up in the past of, I think, you know, like I'm sure Travis, you run a service-based business, you know how long each one, I mean, you know if somebody comes and does an outlet that's all tracked, it's time, so you know if you're profitable or not. You have a general idea, but I think it brings up a discussion that we won't get into now, but just to plant seeds, it would be nice that, to automate some of our maintenance. I mean, to at least time keep and track some of it, just so we have an idea, so when you come to budget A, We spent 100 hours mowing detention ponds. You know, it would be nice, and I know it would be a, but here's the thing, it's a pain.

So much time is in the park. So much time is in the street park. So much time is out doing the sewer and water. So we are doing it by department.

Is that tracked on like a software, though? Or is that, how is that tracked?

It's like either. It's manual. It's manual. It's manual.

I'd like to motion to take the budget $100,000 from the general fund towards the sidewalk rebate program.

Second.

Any discussion?

Yes. I don't know because I'm not on the sidewalk group.

We're meeting next week.

But is there some chance, there's some places where we're just going to put one in? Do we, does it all have to be in this rebate program? Or can we put some just towards sidewalks to be used either to place them on, so I heard as I was walking around doing my, getting my signatures from our neighborhood over in Ward 3, you cannot get to the school you know, on fire, there's two lots with no sidewalk. Like, why can't we just put that in?

So I think if you're going to make people put a sidewalk in a lot, you're going to have to do it through an ordinance because the conversations we've had in the past with city attorneys, you start picking and choosing that this landowner has to put it in, this one doesn't. What's your reasoning behind it?

We just put it in. If we go up to the homeowner and say, hey, we want to put a sidewalk here.

Maybe opening a can of words of why the city put it in sidewalk for this person and not for me. I mean, it's a very political topic. And I'm not against them. I'm all for sidewalks everywhere. But I think the best way to do it is to enact an ordinance that if you own a lot, right now it's, if you own a lot, if you build on it, you have to put a sidewalk. Or maybe it's that you own a lot and it's, Next to it or anything, however we want to frame that, put it in ordinance and that would make them have to do it.

I'm just thinking of something that happens in a year instead of three.

So first year we decided to go after that grant. We did Mickelson Trail to connect that area through there. And then I think we're talking about going after another grant to connect some of these ones in that, make them from one side of town to the other, at least on one side of the street. And I think that's a sidewalk we've identified.

And there's the sidewalk on the other side of the street. It's not even walkable. It's so deteriorated.

So I guess that's my question when it's labeled this specifically for rebate. Well, we can change the title.

We can vote on this and then, depending on how it shakes out, we can make another motion. That's just a personal thought as I was thinking about this.

Yeah, I mean, that's just like, I mean, it could just be for some kind of sidewalk improvement program.

And I think it's a good first step as the committee starts to probably have some ideas. I mean, I think it's a good first step.

We can take out the word rebate and just call it Fund for Sidewalk Program.

Yeah, we're Hartford sidewalk program, whatever.

I'm just trying to plan ahead. I think as mayor, that's what I'm supposed to do.

I'm okay with either passing this and I'll make another motion or changing it.

Just call the vote. I'm asking you to call the vote.

Yeah, okay. We have a motion and a second. We're going to call the vote. Schilling.

What was this, how much?

100,000 I think is what she ended up on. Or whoever made the motion. Travis made the motion. 100 total, not 100 extra, right? You didn't mean to go 100 extra. 100 total. Yeah, 100 total. I understand. Dang it.

No, right now it's for the remake. Yes.

Horace. Yes. Keel. Yes. Bowen. Yes. Madsen. Yes. Carlson.

I'm going to go no.

Okay. Yes, good. So do you want to change that?

Motion to allocate $50,000 from the general fund for sidewalk improvements around the community. Second. Wait, hold up now.

Say that again?

Just sidewalk improvements, not a rebate program.

Not a rebate program.

Because let's say that group doesn't come to any kind of a consensus, right? No, no, it just hasn't happened thus far. It's a different group. At any rate, this still gives the city $50,000 to put those sidewalks in that Cindy was discussing, that she addressed. And you motioned for $50,000? Additional for sidewalks.

Just put some sidewalks in where we need them if we get the landowners. What is it? And I like it. Oh, sorry, it's not a discussion time because I... Oh, it's a motion and a second. Oh, there was a second? Okay. and I don't even know how much a sidewalk costs, generally speaking.

You're looking at about $7, $8 a square foot, and they're five foot wide, so you're looking at about $40 a running foot, so.

$50,000 will get you. A hundred foot lot will cost you $4,000.

Yep. Right. The other thing I was going to say, I mean the rebate, I'm all for the rebate program too, but realistically, like we have to pass the ordinance, set up the criteria, educate the public, and then how long are they going to have to come into compliance? I would die if we spent $100,000 next year on a rebate.

It's just a budget. It's the line item. That's what I'm saying.

That's what I would like about their money as well.

If we don't use it there, we'll use it somewhere else. I was trying to get that general fund number to zero. All right. Any other discussion?

Let's vote. Carlson. Yes. Mattson. Yes. Bowen. Yes. Keel. Yes. Horacek. Yes. Schilling. Yes. Okay, so sidewalk team, now you've got $150,000. I didn't get you the $250,000, but you got closer.

I would make a motion to change the name from the sidewalk, from the, I'm going to make a motion here quick just because everyone else is. I'm going to make a motion to change it from the sidewalk rebate program to the... So this isn't really a name of anything.

It was just in my list. We want money for this. We can let the committee decide how they want to name it. That would be a city council motion. Okay, so that one's getting canceled out. That one won't be in the meeting. We can let the committee decide. You want to be on the committee.

You know where my opinion, and I got shut up by one of my neighbors for my opinions on that.

What haven't we addressed?

The landscape.

No, we're moving that.

We're going to do that.

We're just going to get it up. Painting the water tower.

Painting of the water tower.

What else can we spend a third penny on?

I would be curious if there's any appetite on the... On those signs, on those two signs, I'm in favor of doing some landscaping. I would also love to see, because there's only words on one side of the sign, and I can't imagine it's too expensive to put something else. Like as you're driving out of Western, I don't know. It's just kind of weird. Like as you're driving, you just see like a sign, but there's no words as you're driving south.

Instead of thanks for stopping at Hartford or something like that. Yeah, something like that.

Get the flock out of here.

All right, this is budget we know we're gonna move that to this year and get it done anything else that we need to address Yeah

What do you mean the list station?

It's already in there.

Oh, you left it in. Yes, that was, everything that was on the CIP, I put into the budget.

I just, those restricted funds, I guess if we have projects in the future, we can draw from there, but.

What are we missing here? Did we sell the water tower and then a public water tower? Is that a real thing? I'd like to budget $100,000 from our general fund for the water tower.

Do you want it out of the general fund or out of the water fund?

Maybe out of the water fund.

Let's do it out of the water fund.

I'd like to take $100,000 out of the water fund to improve our water tower. The water tower that's not in use. Cosmetics.

Did we put anything aside for the pool again? No. Not yet. Do we have a second?

Do we have a second? No, I got it. Oh, sorry. I'll second it.

Okay. Any discussion?

So is there any way we could get some of it? I think it will be a great debate before that money gets spent.

That doesn't say we can only spend it.

You should have been here when the engineers tried to talk me out of this deal. Mayor, you know I love you, but since we're in discussion time, I... unless I don't see that as a wise use of money. It's a water tower that's not in use. It doesn't really appear to be an eyesore. It's kind of hidden. So I'm not, I'm definitely not in favor of even budgeting that money.

And I don't think that's a wise use of money.

So that's why I'm going to vote now. Perfect.

So I have a motion and a second on the table for $100,000 for water tower beautification.

Can we call it that? No, we have to make a motion for that.

No, we can call it, he added some word. Water tower improvement. Improvement. Okay. Hearing no other discussion, we'll vote. Carlson?

Yes.

Madsen?

Yes.

Bowen? No. Keel? Yes. Horacek? Yes. Schilling?

Yes.

Oh, my Atlanta.

All right, Michelle.

We can put a pool in there. Yes, I do. I also think those public works employees.

A public works employee. Yes, that too. 50,000 probably.

We need your backup. I'll make a motion. These people seem pretty encouraged.

I'll make a motion to add 50,000 to come out of the general fund to have our part-time employee potentially go to a full-time employee.

And this can be split three ways, too, because that person won't be involved. Oh, perfect. Can you say that again? It can be split between the three. Split between the three.

Three entities together. Okay. General water sewer.

And Keith seconded it. Split three ways. Okay. Any discussion? Thank you, Michelle.

Go ahead. I would say... Because obviously that person has to go through a formal interview. This is just budget on the budget. Oh, that's right. Okay, so up to $50,000.

We'll be in the budget for next year, and we'll have discussion this year, yes. Okay.

All right. I see Karen's trying to make the numbers work, but it's not working. Take that out. Oh, wait, no. You're going to want to undo, undo, undo.

All right.

While she's working on the numbers, we'll vote.

Schilling. Yes.

Horacek. Yes. Keel. Yes. Bowen. Yes. Madsen. Yes. Carlson. Yes. Okay.