Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Dusty. I was going to bring mine, but I went back home. I should have brought one now that I see everything I have. I'm trying to print it over there.

It's good to be right next to each other.

We're going to get our work mixed up. Give or take, but it's also like... I want to know, is it a million or...

Hello YouTube. Well, thanks for your interest in that. Yeah.

Alright, so Kayla, you wanna you wanna kick us off here? I apologize for us being a little squeezed this evening at the table, but our cameras and microphones don't allow us to go be in the. Preferred so. Microphone sharing and. We'll just kick off with your introductions.

Good evening everyone. Thank you for coming out on such a wet evening as well and for joining us in such cramped quarters to discuss data center regulations in Hancock County. My name is Kayla Brooks and I am the Hancock County Planning Director as most of you know. The point of this subcommittee will be to create basically a constructive forum where we as community members and local stakeholders, technical experts and officials can work together to create data center land use regulations that make sense for Hancock County. We will meet, well, I guess I can get into that as we move on here, but we'll meet about four times over the course of this summer. And in the end, we'll present a recommendation to the Plan Commission about how the regulations in Hancock County need to be amended to better address data centers as a land use. So over the next few meetings, we will be defining what a data center is, and also Looking at different communities that have already addressed data centers as a land use And how we'd like to do that here in Hancock County I'll get more into the details of what we've got right now in place But first I want to introduce the members of this of this committee so our recording secretary is Maria Henriquez our assistant planner and then Should I just go ahead and let you guys name off down the row, I guess? Mary, would you like to start? Sure.

And maybe tell us who you're representing on the committee, because you're all kind of slated to represent an area.

Sure, my name's Mary Zurbach. I've been on the RDC committee for almost 20 years now for Hancock County. I live in Green Township and I'm a civil engineer from Purdue. Been working in central Indiana for 30 years. In the first part of my career, I worked for commercial real estate developers, big box developers, a lot of medical office, all commercial. And then 2008, we had the downturn in the economy and I started my own business and primarily all I do now is represent owners. WITH CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS, AND A LOT OF THE OWNERS I REPRESENT HAVE PROGRAMS THAT ARE UPWARDS OF $300 MILLION TO $4 BILLION ANNUALLY. SO WE ARE HELPING OUT ON VERY LARGE TEAMS, DEPLOYING LARGE BUDGETS. SO I THOUGHT THAT MY CONSTRUCTION DEVELOPMENT AND OWNERS' PERSPECTIVE OF LAND USE AND BUILDING OWNERSHIP WOULD HELP OUR COMMITTEE.

I'm, sorry, I'm Renee Oldham. I represent the Planning Commission. I serve as the secretary on the Planning Commission. I also represent all four superintendents on the Planning Commission. I am employed by Mount Vernon Education Foundation. I have 30 plus years in community economic development, working in everything from TIF district, downtown development, housing, community development, strategic planning, and a variety of other kinds of things, traffic and other areas.

And so just before you move on, so Mary is actually slated as our economic development member, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and from Green Township and then Renee is from Accordsville. So we're just going to state what your township or town are is when you introduce yourself.

Go ahead, OK. I'm Derek Adams, I'm from Center Township. I work for the County Health Department as an environmental health specialist. 2019 grad of Butler University, go Bulldogs. Studied environmental science and biology. I have a lot of experience working with environmental pollutants and the ways that different environmental aspects can be mitigated and how they can be used as a benefit and or as a negative. Yeah, I guess that's really all I have.

Philip Hayes, I represent the utilities from Jackson Township. I've been on the Nine Star Connect board for 30 years. I was on the Wabash-Bauer Power Alliance board for 12 years and served as its chairman of the board. I'm retired, Purdue grad, very interested in what the community has to offer in this space.

Janine Gray, I'm representing the Board of Commissioners, and I'm from the town of Shirley, and that is Brown Township.

My name is Samuel Gallion. I am from Fortville, used to live in Greenfield. I am the industrial representative. I am also a union electrician for a local 481 out of Indianapolis and Marion County and surrounding. I've worked on several military grade data centers and WORKED ON A LOT OF SECRET PROJECTS THAT INVOLVE THESE AS WELL AS VARIOUS DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS THAT MAY POWER THEM, RUN THEM, GET ANY CONDUCTORS RAN THROUGH THEM AND WHEN IT COMES TO FIBER OPTIC DATA TRANSFER, I'VE DONE IT ALL WITH THESE DATA CENTERS.

I'M MIKE LONG. I REPRESENT THE PLANNING COMMISSION. I'M THE CHAIR OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN THE BZA. I LIVE IN SUGAR CREEK TOWNSHIP.

Julie Sadam, I'm a Buck Creek Township citizen. I specialized in IT, although I'm retired now. In my experience, I've done a lot of automation projects that included some knowledge-based, or almost AI, this was a long time ago, but basically the type of development that would make decisions for humans and replace... Lots of interest in and experience with migration of data and data development projects. So that's pretty much where my... Lacey Willard.

I am representing the BZA. I'm also a member of the Planning Commission out of Buck Creek. I'm an attorney and I've been in the commercial real estate industry for about 25 years.

Kylie Blaylock, I'm in Jackson Township. I'm a farmer, I have a, formerly trained in reverse logistics, which is basically the science of moving things you don't want or don't need anymore out. Where do they go? What do you do with them? I was also heavily involved in community advocacy during the Henry County Data Center. So I've worked with the community on that and some of the developers to understand the relationship between them. And that's all for me, I guess.

I'M MELISSA JACKSON. I'M FROM GREENFIELD REPRESENTING CITIZENS. I AM A UTILITY AND RAILROAD COORDINATOR CERTIFIED WITH NDOT AND I WORK AT A CIVIL ENGINEER FIRM OUT OF INDY. SO I WORK WITH THE UTILITY COMPANIES ABOUT THE IMPACTS AND STUFF THAT ARE INVOLVED IN CONSTRUCTION.

MY NAME IS PAUL OVERHOUSER. I'm a patent attorney here in Greenfield. I represent primarily the technology industry, and I'm here just as a citizen. I'm working on retiring and hope when I complete my retirement, I can get more involved in philanthropic and civic activities like this.

Clark Smith, the one who chose to sit between two attorneys, so... next time but uh live in rural center township north of interstate 70 uh live on most people know it as the boyd angus farm with my wife and her family uh we have about 25 head of cattle uh done a lot a lot of things in life uh work for corteva agriscience a large multinational company, also taught eighth grade math, and now currently work for the State Department of Ag. But here on this committee, formally representing the county council, but also work for state government. So whether it's ISDA, IDM, anyone in the state, happy to be a connector and help this committee out.

And I'm Rhonda Cook. I'm the Planning and Zoning Department Attorney.

Thank you everybody. I'm going to turn it over to Rhonda to handle the election of the chair. Yes.

So in your packet I believe you have the resolution that created this advisory committee. This resolution reads is that the committee will be chaired by commission. All of you are members of the committee, but two of you are non-voting members. That would be the commissioner's representative and the council representative, which is Janine and Clark. We first need to elect a chair, which has to be a member of the plan commission or a representative from the plan commission, which would either be Mike or Renee. So I would entertain a motion to either appoint Mike or Renee as chair.

Motion for appointment of Mike Long as chair.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Turn it over to Mike for the election of... vice chair which is kind of just more procedural.

Very procedural because the only person suited for it is Renee based on or meets the requirements I guess so I would entertain a motion to nominate Renee for vice chair.

So moved.

All right moved and seconded well did I have a second? Someone? A second. All right. Moved and seconded for Renee Oldham to be the vice chair of this committee. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion carries.

All right.

So I think from there we'll... SO, OUR NEXT THING WAS SOME DISCUSSING ABOUT COMMITTEE DECORUM. SO, LIKE I SAID, WE'RE A LITTLE CRAMMED HERE. WE REALLY PREFERRED TO BE IN SORT OF A ROUND TABLE KIND OF DISCUSSION AND MAYBE THAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING WHO'S WANTING TO TALK. If we were more in a circle, I'd be able to see you kind of raise a hand or whatever, but we may just have to try and all be fair with each other's time and try to talk. I don't want to ever cut anybody off, but if we start to ramble, I may have to move from one person to the next with that. think that that's really for the most part it um we don't want to be here all night so we will we will try and limit discussions and just like any other other thing try not to repeat what other people have said and you know try to always bring new information as you're as you're speaking WE DO WANT TO TRY TO SHARE THESE MICS. IT'S KIND OF IMPORTANT TO TRY AND SPEAK DIRECTLY INTO THE MIC SO THAT YOU'RE RECORDED. I DO WANT TO GO AHEAD JUST FOR THE RECORD. THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING. IT'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING, BUT IT IS A PUBLIC MEETING. and it has been noticed as such. And this meeting is also being recorded and streamed for public viewing. And by participating in this, you are acknowledging that your image, voice, and comments may be captured and made publicly available. And as I said, this has been properly noticed in accordance with Indiana Code 514.1.5. So with that, I'd like to move on to back to Rhonda to discuss some of our legal requirements here.

Thank you. And I have a short PowerPoint presentation prepared. And you may have questions about this, so feel free to just stop me in my tracks here and ask a question. So I'm going to start out with some very basic things, which first one is home rule. So just so you're understanding how state of Indiana laws work with local laws, so since 1980, The General Assembly passed the Home Rule Act, which gives local units, we're talking counties, cities, towns, or townships, they can adopt their own ordinances wherever the General Assembly hasn't consumed that space. So if the General Assembly has talked about that or dictated a way or consumed the space of that area, we have to follow what the state law says. But anytime they are silent and they've they've left it to us to dictate under home rule, that's when local ordinances can be crafted at the local level. Previously, the state worked under something called Dillon's Law. Excuse me. Dillon's Law is where there had to be legislation enacted at the state that gave enabling legislation for the locals to take action through a local ordinance. That's the way state agencies work. They have to have enabling legislation in order to pass their own agency rules. All right.

Can I ask a quick question? Yes. Hi, this is Julie. Yeah. If we were to, or as a group were to recommend or to adopt an ordinance locally here, Is it superseded by if the state comes along at a later date and drafts something else? Does that dictate? It is.

It is. Yes. So 3674 is the code that I work in a lot for this when I work for the planning department. That's our planning and zoning code at the state level. Indiana Planning and Zoning Code really doesn't leave a lot to home rule, but there are times when they allow space for locals to adopt their own ordinances. And right now, data centers is one of the areas where we do have some flexibility to adopt those local ordinances. I can't say the same for wind and solar, because they have taken action to kind of prohibit local laws in those areas somewhat. I also work around the legislature, and I'll just make this comment. The legislature's goal is to get job creation in the state of Indiana. They want economic development. They want investment. So they really don't like it when we just say, not in my backyard. They really do want us to accommodate and figure out, maybe put guardrails, and they'll give us some flexibility. But the minute that everyone starts saying, not in my backyard, I think is when we'll see a reaction from the legislature to say, then we're going to make you do it. Anyway, that's just my experience, and I've been working around the legislature for 30-plus years. So our Hancock County Code, just so you know how to access it. If you Google American Legal Publishing, You can find the website where our Hancock County code is found. You click on Code Library. They have a list of states there. Click on Indiana and then Hancock County. When you click on our code, you'll want to look at section 156. That's the planning and zoning section. We follow most of our, well, our planning and zoning laws are mostly guided by our comprehensive plan, which was last updated in 2023. So that's kind of the overarching visionary plan for the county, and then we craft the local laws to try to help the plan get carried out. Hancock County has 15 zoning districts. You can go to the Hancock County beacon system, which is our GIS mapping and click on a parcel and then find out what zoning district that parcel is in. And that's gonna be important when we talk about where data centers can be cited.

Rhonda, real quick, will this information be made available or do I need to write down all of these notes?

We can make the PowerPoint available. I thought it was going to be in the packet, but I don't know if that guy got it.

It may be. I didn't see it on a quick flip.

Okay. All right. Here are the zoning districts that we have currently in Hancock County. You're going to want to pay attention mostly to the ones on the right side under commercial zoning, institutional zoning, and industrial. The other side we have ag zoning district, but then we have several residential zoning districts. Okay. So a zoning district dictates what type of uses can occur there. If a use is allowed in a zoning district, it will either be a permitted use or it will be a special exception use. So the difference is a permitted use is allowed so long as the development standards in that zoning district are met. A special exception use means it's possibly allowed. But first, the developer has to come to the BZA and ask for approval of a special exception. The BZA is a quasi-judicial body. It's made up of five members. And it's almost like a court process. We have the same rules with evidence and with ex parte communication. It's really quasi-judicial. The BZA makes a determination based on whether certain factors are present or not. We have to look at our land use matrix. This is in our zoning code, so you can find that there. Oh, I should mention this too. it is not a permitted use or a special exception, and they still want it to be in that zoning district, they have to apply for a rezone. So they have to go through that whole rezoning process, which is a process in itself. Okay, so let's look at our zoning land use matrix. So you see across the top, there's the zoning districts, there's abbreviation for each type of zoning district. one through 15. And then you go down the side, and this chart goes on a lot longer, it's a very lengthy chart, under communication uses. We see communication service exchange, and I want to talk about that for a minute, but you'll see the use along the left side, and then you go over and you see that communication service exchange, for example, is a special exception in the CC, CR, and it's a permitted use in IN, IBP, IL, and IG. Okay. Important because Right now, in our code, data center definition is included in this term, communication service exchange. So I'll read that definition. A telecommunications facility that houses one or more computer systems and related equipment dictated to building, maintaining, and or processing data. Such a facility would likely include a telephone service exchange, a data center, and a server farm. My guess is that that definition has been there for a really long time. And it's when we were talking about when we all used telephones and it was the little brick buildings that helped that exchange process. And we didn't have a lot of data centers. So this to me is very outdated. All right, so let's go back now and look at previous slide again.

Rhonda, for just a moment, just for those who may not be quite as... Can you talk briefly like the importance of definitions and words when we talk about code? Because I think some of us that have been around this part, but this is like a whole other language. Like in my agency, Friday we were having a call and we were down to one word on what the definition and how it applies. So just briefly talk about how important this is.

When you're dealing with law, even a comma or a semicolon or an and or an or or a may or shall is super important. And you have to look at the term, whether it's defined or whether it's not defined where they've told us what it is. either in the local ordinance or in the Indiana code, then it means it's the plain meaning. So you really just go to Webster's dictionary or you just find the best you can to find out what that term means. So let's say we didn't have this definition of communication service exchange and we just said data center, it would be kind of up to, it'd be gray. It would be like what do we mean by a data center? Are we talking about a big one, a small one? What are we talking about? So right now, throughout our code, this term, communication service exchange, means exactly what it says here. And it does include data centers. But I can tell you that I'm not sure that back then when they crafted this definition, they had intended what we now think of as a data center. That would have been too, we didn't know that back then. Going back to our land use matrix, knowing now that a data center is a communication service exchange in our code right now, Hancock County Code, you're seeing that it is in a special exception in CC, CR, and then a permitted use in all the industrials. All right. It's important to then look The district definitions. So for commercial community, CC, and for commercial regional, CR, data centers are a special exception in these two zoning districts. I'm not going to read this out loud, but I do want you to read... Well, maybe I should, because I don't think it's in your packets. In the CC... Community Commercial Zoning Districts. It's intended to provide locations for a variety of small and mid-sized business and institutional facilities that serve a wide area of the community. This district can be used alone and in combination with other zoning districts to create areas for community shopping, entertainment, services, and public gatherings. district is intended to permit a mixture of compatible land uses in close proximity to transportation routes and other necessary infrastructure and utilities. So you have to think now doesn't make sense to have a data center as we know it in this type of zoning district, subject to special exception.

Quick question if I may. Do we have anything that breaks down these designations and tells us how many acres in the county is zoned in those? Like in other words, would you have a document somewhere that would say we have X number of acres Or parcels or whatever that are CC or CR and so on.

Do we know how many acres we have zoned in each zoning classification?

No.

Okay. Is there any way for us to find that?

That information might have been included in our plan, but at this point that would probably be outdated as well.

And the last time the comprehensive plan was updated was 2022? 23. 23, okay, thank you.

Kayla's gonna pass this around so it's the presentation so you have access to it and I won't have to read all of these.

The GIS coordinator could probably add that up if it's important to something.

I could see that just because I like statistics and numbers and I think it would also paint a clear picture as to how much land we have already available, if you will. Right.

Keep in mind that they have to follow the development standards in that zoning district if it is on this chart. This chart does not have any S's or P's in all the Ag or the residential. So if you'd ever want a data center there, currently, you'd have to have a rezone for those.

A LOT OF THE REASONS HAPPEN WITH CONDITIONS AND USE RESTRICTIONS AS WELL SO IT WOULD BE KIND OF HARD TO GET A COMPLETE ACCURATE COUNT I GUESS OF ACRES THAT WOULD FALL STRICTLY UNDER THE BROAD SPECTRUM OF EACH OF THOSE.

I'M AN ANALYST SO I ANALYZE EVERYTHING. Is there anything then that would tell you X number have special exceptions or anything like that? Would then be able to zone in or not zone in? Let's hone in on. Focus on.

Yeah, so the way a special exception would come about is if the project is already proposed, they'd come to the BZA because they know they need a special exception to go any further. And then the project would be brought to that board, there would be a public hearing and then neighbors, people notified, the public, we put it in the newspaper, hearing is taking place, they might have something to say because they live next to it or they want to have some conditions put on the siting of that project that would make it more harmonious for them to live next to it. So that's when the BZA can put on the conditions or commitments, require commitments. Okay. this list of four zoning districts. This is where currently a communication service exchange, which happens to include data center, is allowed as a permitted use in all four of these zones. Institutional, industrial business park, industrial light, and industrial general. So you want to read through those at your leisure and kind of understand which the nature of each one of these districts and what the crafters of this ordinance kind of thought when they were envisioning what should go in that zoning district. Okay, so we have a little bit of new news to bring you. We know that tomorrow at the commissioners meeting, the board of commissioners has on their agenda a resolution to ask the plan commission to initiate an ordinance that will take some of these zoning districts out of play for right now. The reason that I understand is because they feel like it's too wide open right now. And they were elected to represent the citizens and there are some data center projects that could, if they followed all the development standards right now, could go in any one of those four industrial type zoning districts without their say or input. So they want to put some guardrails on right away. They're going to They're going to ask the plan commission to initiate an ordinance which has been drafted and is made available right now in the planning department office because that has already been noticed for public hearing, which will take place at the plan commission meeting on May 26th. You have a copy of that ordinance, that draft ordinance, in your packet. I want to talk about that for just a second. Okay. Right, so tomorrow the Board of Commissioners will be considering the, let's see, a resolution of the Board of Commissioners of Hancock County, Indiana, initiating a change in the Hancock County Code of Ordinances regarding zoning. And this is where they're gonna ask the Planning Commission to develop an ordinance to send back to them for their consideration regarding data center siting. All right, so then the ordinance that has been prepared and is now up for public discussion is, there's no number there, ordinance number blank, an ordinance amending Title 15, Chapter 156 of the Code of Ordinances of Hancock County, Indiana regarding data center siting. Okay, I'm gonna just walk you through what this does. Because right now I would consider this to be a bare bones ordinance. And I think the commissioners want to hear from this committee, and then they want to add some meat to this ordinance as we go along. So your input here is going to be really important.

Okay. I'm sorry, I have a quick question. Is this what's going to be discussed on May 26th? May 26th. Okay. Okay. Just checking the calendar.

Okay. So the first thing this ordinance proposed in Section 1 is to carve out a new definition for data center. So communication service exchange as a definition in the code, but now it's only going to apply to telecommunications equipment, telephone lines, things that routes calls, manages local communication traffic, which is probably what that original intent for that word meant, was to be. And then it proposes to supply a new definition for the term data center. to be added to section 156.121. And the data center definition would be a facility used primarily for the storage, management, processing, and transmission of digital data and that houses computer or network equipment, systems, servers, appliances, and other associated components related to digital data storage, processing, and related operations. Data center uses include data storage facilities, server farms, artificial intelligence training or processing, image processing, cloud computing, email servicing, and similar uses. That was a definition that we liked from another code, I think from Lake County. We liked their definition and thought it was all-encompassing. Notice that there's no language in here that talks about a certain size of data center. That's always something we can go back and amend this definition later if we have input from this committee and we think that's a good idea and the commissioners think it's a good idea. So that's the first thing is getting a data center definition in place. Let's see, section three just adds a new line in the land use matrix. that will now have a line for data center, and then we'll say what is for special exception and permitted uses for data centers, our new definition. And then it creates a data center overlay district. I'm gonna come back to that one. So what we're gonna see on our land use matrix is that The word data center will be on the left side of the matrix and then it will only be a permitted use in the IG district after this, if this ordinance is passed. Not to say that later, This can't be amended to include other places, other districts that make sense, but this is kind of like going down to the bare bones to let this committee have time to work and then fill in, like I said, kind of fill in the, flush this whole ordinance out. Okay, section... six. This is how the process will work with the overlay. An overlay, we have them for solar and wind and I think there's about six different types of overlay. An overlay district means that you apply, the project has to comply with the underlying development standards And then it also has to comply with the overlay standards, which can be more stringent and can also have more procedural steps in order to get it approved. So what we're doing right now is we're adding more procedural steps. So Section 6 deals with that. So the approval process is in Section B. someone wanting to, a developer wanting to come here with a data center would first have to, if it's a permitted use in IG, they would only be looking now if this passes under IG district. They would submit a letter of intent. And prior to submitting an application for a data center project, they'll submit the letter to the president of the board of commissioners. The commissioners would then, make a determination at a public meeting and adopt a declaratory resolution stating that they think this project, they make a finding that the project will provide a substantial benefit to the county and then allow that project to keep continuing through the application phase. So there's kind of this threshold question. I feel like this is a good step because developers don't want to waste time and money if they know that this project doesn't really have any It's not favorable. So the commissioners are going to have to find first that they think it is a good project for this county as a threshold question. Then there will be a pre-application review. The planning director will determine through the pre-application review process to make sure all the necessary components are present and satisfactory so that the application is considered to be a complete application. So all those different parts of information that will be required the planning director will make that determination whether the application is complete and if it is then the fee will be paid for the application. The project will then go through all the planning stages, is set forth in the code of ordinances, the tech review committee reviews those, it goes to surveyor, it goes to highway, all the different entities that gather for tech review And then if there's any variances, at that point it would go to the Board of Zoning Appeals if they ask for variances. Then after TechReview has reviewed the project and determines that it meets all the technical requirements, the Planning Commission will hold a public hearing. And then they will certify to the Board of Commissioners that the public hearing was held and offer any suggestions or recommendations about the project. that the plan commission may determine. Then it will go back to the commissioners. Yes.

I have a quick question. You said the technical review committee has to review the project to determine that it meets all technical requirements. Do those technical requirements exist today or are those requirements something that this data center advisory committee may help come up with?

Right here and right now, they exist today, but you may want to add additional ones that could be part of the overlay. So right now we have, like I said, this is bare bones, and as this committee comes up with more for the overlay, there may be additional technical things that you would like to suggest to the commissioners that they adopt in their to amend this ordinance. Thank you. Does that make sense? Okay.

Rhonda, if I could have a question.

Yeah.

So typically when a company comes to town, and this is specifically for a county, so McCordsville could decide to do a different kind of data ordinance, Fortville, other places. This is just for county-specified areas, right? Right. So I'm just trying to theoretically... AGDC brings a client and they're working with them. But if I'm understanding this right, if it's a county project, it's a data center, the first step would be for the data center to make the inquiry to the commissioners. And typically there's NDAs. So how would that process work? Because wouldn't that inquiry have to be a public, they'd have to do it in public space to disclose that they have a potential project? What I envision happening here is that

Before the developer gets to the stage where they're ready to have the declaratory resolution adopted, they're going to be talking to the commissioners already. And the commissioners can hold executive sessions and NDA agreements can be signed. So I don't really see that declaratory resolution stage happening until they're ready to kind of go public. And they probably already have a good feel from the commissioners. how they feel about it.

So that's more of a formal, they could be looking around, talking to people, making an observation, but when they're ready to proceed in their concept or idea, that's when they would do the declaquering. It wouldn't be at the beginning when they're just looking at our whole entire area.

Right, so this code would only govern the unincorporated areas of the county. So whatever, McCordsville and Spring Lake and Shirley are part of our plan commission, but all the other municipalities within the county have their own planning and zoning. So whatever their process is, is what they do. And this would just be for the county unincorporated. But my guess is, I know that practically speaking about the NDAs and how... the HEDC brings projects and there are NDAs that have to be, but I think that's probably prior to when they're ready to do this declaratory, that's probably when they're already ready to make it public. Okay, confirmatory resolution then. Upon receiving the certification from the plan commission, the board of commissioners, they can send the project back for tech review. If they have comments or they need some things fixed, they could do that. Or they could adopt the confirmatory resolution confirming that the project would indeed provide a substantial benefit to the county and stating that it's an agreement with the tech review committees Determination that all tech review comments have been addressed appropriately. They may require the applicant to make written commitments at that time. If the project is sent back to tech review for further adjustments, the tech review committee shall further review the project, make adjustments, and forward a report to the Board of Commissioners. stating what adjustments were made and the commissioners may consider adopting the confirmatory resolution again if it desires or it might just, project may die right there. Upon passage of the confirmatory resolution, the applicant may receive an improvement location permit after they pay for that permit. So it's kind of like this pre-review process. And that would all be put in the overlay. So that is what we came up with for right now. But like I said, there's still a lot of work to be done to make this ordinance even stronger and to put in the development standards that you want to see in this overlay.

Real quick. Yeah. On the declaratory resolution is where the commissioners would decide if there's substantial benefit to the county. Is there a standard or a metric that they would use to measure that to make that judgment right now? Does anything exist?

We have not written that into the ordinance. So whether they develop one, that would be kind of up to them how they want to develop that, a rubric, something like that.

OK. Rhonda, thank you very much for this summary. It's very helpful. Yes. Just if I could throw out a hypothetical, if somebody came in and wanted to go to this data center and they wanted to fast track it, so to speak, they would have to, according to this procedure, first go to the board of commission, send them a letter or get a declaratory resolution. It goes to the zoning committee, technical committee, back to the commissioners. Just in theory, what is the shortest amount of time all those steps might take?

I would tell you that most of those steps are already things that happen. Like the tech review, that's already a thing. The new parts are the declaratory resolution, that step, and kind of letting the commissioners give the green light that you can go forward. I would say that would probably add, don't forget that the commissioners can hold special meetings. so that that speeds things up. Because normally you have to wait, you know, they meet every two weeks, so that's the time you're kind of waiting for action to take place, but they can also meet in special meetings. Kayla, how long would you say that if the cleanest project you ever saw came in and it went through tech and everything, how long... Would that take?

Through this process?

Yes, through the regular process. But then we can add on a couple meeting dates here for commissioners to adopt the declaratory and the confirmatory. But how long for tech review?

It would be at least a... Come up here. So for tech agenda, to get on the tech agenda, anybody would have to come in and apply at least 30 days in advance of that tech meeting. So there's a month right there. And then the comments that are going to be given to them at tech committee are usually pretty in-depth and include some big... like make sure you get your drainage plan reviewed and approved. You need a state design release for this building. You might, in the case of things that are on commercial septic, we would say you need to go through the state, actually, not health, and get a septic permit. These are all things that would, in the case of utilities, which is more likely in the case of a data center, This would be extensive as well. Go to ACWA, go to Nine Star, go to the utility provider and figure out how you're going to extend utilities that will serve this project. That's a whole process in itself. If they have all these things already in order, which we would hope they would, I think we're talking at least just 30 days to get to tech, then another month to address comments. Then they have to submit the ILP application with all the plans back to my department and start going through review another month. So three months minimum. There. Okay.

Well, so this committee is. His plan Commission level. So what everything that Rhonda just described? If I'm completely understanding it correctly. Any project that falls under definition of data center essentially has to follow the same timeline as a rezoning because the overlay is essentially the same process as a rezoning. If it's not IG, it has to do it twice, right? I mean, because you would have to rezone to IG and then do an overlay. So you would go through that process twice. So you're talking about just to get the land ready, it could be four months to go through that process twice. And that's before everything that Kayla just said.

OK, I have another question if I may. Do we have any current data centers in place or in process that would no longer be a gimme after the passage of this ordinance?

We don't have any in the works now, do we? There's just been inquiries, just inquiries. Thank you.

So this process is adding roughly another two months. And Kayla, you're being very gracious with your explanation, but if it's outside review instead of internal review here at the county could add upwards of 30 to 60 days. So to get a permit in our county right now, I have not seen it done in less than four to six months without this process. Involving the commissioners, getting on their agenda can be an issue as well. So not just putting, say, hey, I need to get on their meeting. It could be pushed out a couple weeks later. I think we just need to be aware that we are adding a timeline here that could make our, if we want data centers or if we don't, could make it not attractive to come to our community.

I think that... commissioners can have, that's probably more realistic, but commissioners can have special meetings and you're adding two meetings to adopt the declaratory and the confirmatory. They could do that one day and come back and do it the next day. So you might be adding, I mean, this is probably not realistic, but you could be adding two more days because they can hold special meetings.

Depending on what you want included in the overlay information packet, right? Because that in itself can add more and review additional. So it's not just that they understand exactly what they're getting and they're going to say yes within that two-day period that you explained. It could take more time to gather the information needed by the commissioners. True.

I agree with that. IT IS PROBABLY MORE LIKE A FOUR TO SIX MONTH PROCESS.

DO YOU WANT TO TAKE FEEDBACK ON PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS FOR THIS NOW OR THE 26th?

NOW WOULD BE FINE IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.

WOULD WE TREAT SPECULATIVE VERSUS PRESCRIPTIVE DEVELOPMENT DIFFERENTLY?

I KNOW. So your question deals with if they don't know what is going to go there. So potentially, that would be whether the commissioners... So let me just... So everybody understands your question. Let's say... We have a developer of land that wants something to be developed there, doesn't know if it will be a data center or something else. How do we handle that speculative request versus one where they actually know, yes, this is a data center? Do you have another scenario?

We know it's going to be a data center, but I'm not sure who's going to occupy it. Who's going to be able to occupy it? Entitle the land? Because that is happening in other states. The only reason I ask is because... we might want to have some specificity in Section 6, subsection B1, maybe in A, talking about LOI content on land use and power and water and noise. Depending upon our preference for speculative development, we would include that or not. That's just a procedural question.

They're gonna have to make that threshold question whether on the facts that they know right then whether there's a substantial benefit to the county I think the things that you're talking about are where we add to this ordinance as we go along because like I said this is bare bones right now. This is just to protect the county right now so the commissioners have a say and it only can go into one zoning district right now and maybe the commissioners will later decide based on your comments that more zoning districts should have data centers and then adjust from there.

A few more high level questions. The planning director doesn't come in until section step three. I'm wondering if the letter of intent should be presented via the planning director just because THERE'S AN INTEREST, I'M SURE, IN THE COMMISSIONERS TO HAVING SOME SORT OF CONTEXT WHEN MAKING A DECISION, ALTHOUGH IF THIS DECISION IS SOLELY LIMITED TO PUBLIC BENEFIT, I'M SORRY, SUBSTANTIAL BENEFIT, WHICH IS MY NEXT QUESTION, MAYBE THERE'S SOME THOUGHT TO HAVING THE PLANNING DIRECTOR INVOLVED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER IN THE PROCESS. WE'VE ROLLED THAT BACK IN A LOT OF OTHER CHANGES WE MADE TO PLANNING COMMISSION RECENTLY. THIS MIGHT BE NICE TO MATCH THAT.

I'M SURE THAT THE PLANNING be involved in this because there'd probably been lots of meetings already before it gets to the declaratory resolution stage.

Just mentioning it earlier. I'm unfamiliar with substantial benefit. I know public benefit. What's the difference? And it's not defined in here. Is there a difference?

It's not defined. So it's up for the commissioners to define what they... Got it. Yep.

Okay. When do incentives come into play, if at all?

We have not addressed that in the ordinance. So that is on our list for this committee to give some input.

Got it. And it would be nice to have some supplemental guides. I think we mentioned earlier with the technical committee. I think we'll be reviewing utility availability in a lot of different ways. This is a different conversation about utility availability, that we would need an affirmative finding from technical committee. Emergency response, a little bit different. DURING CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATIONS, NOISE AND EMOTIONS, THOSE ARE JUST SOME DIFFERENT FINDINGS THAT TECHNICAL COMMITTEE MIGHT NEED TO MAKE IN A TYPICAL OVERLAY. AND THEN IT'S REALLY NICE AT THE BZA WHEN WE HAVE GUIDES, AND I MEAN, I'M NOT TALKING LIKE CHICKEN COOP GUIDES. It's nice that we, because that even is helpful. But some sort of a guide that can be, you know, supplemental. Because really the major change here we're talking about is not extra time. The major change here is procedural and that these decisions are made not by people, by people who are sitting at a, you know, unelected board. That's really the change we're talking about. And so for us to get that guidance at the BZA would be really effective. And likewise, procedurally, it would be nice if the Planning Commission actually had a finding. So if we defer from our normal process, it's a lot of people. We might mess it up. So requiring an actual finding or recommendation

Then a suggestion might might be a little bit better fit but I defer to My reason why I use the word suggestion there purposely was because in the code We use the word recommendation and I wanted to make sure that this was separate Everybody knew that this was a separate process from a rezone where There's a favorable, unfavorable, or no recommendation, and I wanted to use another word besides that just to make it clear that we're not talking like we default to the Indiana Code procedure there, that this is something separate.

Okay, then maybe having a different lexicon with that, that still, I got it, understood. A couple of the items, there is a possibility that before step six there's a BZA, and so maybe it's upon finding the certification from the Planning Commission and, if needed, BZA, I think you want BCA before going into step six, right? Procedurally? We wouldn't want to have planning commission approval.

But it is before step six.

Step four.

IT'S STEP FOUR, PROJECT REVIEW.

SO THEN UPON RECEIVING CERTIFICATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND IF NEEDED, THE BZA. THOSE ARE SEPARATE PROCEDURES. GOOD. THEN WHAT HAPPENS IF TECH COMMITTEE, WHAT HAPPENS IF COMMISSIONERS KICK IT BACK TO TECH COMMITTEE? IT DOESN'T GO THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGAIN FOR A SUGGESTION? I GUESS THAT WOULD BE A COMMISSIONER'S PREFERENCE, BUT TYPICALLY EVERYTHING IS JUST STAMPED THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS A STEP. IT'S JUST A NORMAL STEP FOR EVERYTHING ELSE. I'm not sure if the commissioners would just procedurally have to kick it back down to planning commission, which would just prolong the process.

Well, we would go off the process unless we amend the process. Because like I said, we're kind of operating in home rule right here.

And my last question ties back to if there are confidentiality provisions, would we change any of these procedures in NDA? What changes?

This is a draft. We're going to have public. We're going to have public hearing. And these are all good comments. So as this, this can change. We're just trying to this is something on paper for you to consider our best crack at just getting something out there to talk about. Why was it?

Why was an overlay thought to be our only option here? Creating an overlay district. There's other things.

Because the commissioners requested me to draft it like that. Okay.

All right. So the commissioners were...

They wanted it like the other overlays we've done for solar and wind. Okay. Yeah.

It's consistent. We did it for solar.

But wouldn't developing a PUD in a certain area give full flexibility to both parties to figure out what to do with that land?

If a PUD is filed, this process doesn't apply.

Okay. So... that's a rezone so then you go through all the rezoning process that's a safety measure really safety measure so so that this overlay is a safety measure only on this only on the ig okay 10 forum okay thanks just just where it was a permitted use and the planning commission will discuss that i mean that maybe we want to add a few more um to it i don't know but The PUD is really nice because these data centers are coming with lots of different faces that nobody knows who they are. So it could be developer driven or it could be owner use driven. So if it's developer driven, they walk away when life of the interior equipment is over, what happens to the building? The developer has sold it multiple times. We don't know who the owner is. They live on some desert island and it's just an eyesore and wasted space in our community. That's just the dramatic ending.

That's one of the things that I would like to us as a committee to be able to address is how to handle the obsolescence and not allow them to walk away and leave it because it's basically...

I don't know how you do that and nobody can dictate the future. My point is is With a PUD, we would have that ability. But with this case, I don't know. We're just giving this overlay unless that's the place to put this stuff in there.

This overlay is bare bones. So I'm going to say almost 100%. After this committee works and puts more guidance in, you may determine that you want to recommend to the commissioners that data centers should be allowed in more than just IG. That could be very true. But then you may also want to add more requirements in the overlay. This overlay only really talks about procedure. It doesn't talk about any development standards. And that's where your input is going to fill in the blanks. This was just kind of a placeholder for now because we felt like the commissioners felt like They were exposed and it was just wide open. So they wanted to put this in until this work of the committee can happen and they can get your feedback on this.

But if we do add more prescriptive language to this, we also are painting a box for ourselves as well. So we need to make sure that the flexibility is there on both sides. Yeah.

I will say that we've had an effective job of implementing a decommissioning plan requirement for the solar. And that was, even we discussed putting money in escrow for it. So there are really effective ways to anticipate decommissioning and we've implemented those from best practices in other counties in the past.

Great. Okay, so. Might be a good time to talk about our, topics, I guess, the main topics.

I'm happy to answer any further questions and we'll get you my contact information and email in case you have questions about this.

All of that said, so like that was a lot, but essentially what the commissioners are trying to do is make sure that any project like this goes through a pseudo zoning process, right? So whether it would be like a PUD or creating this overlay as much like that same process. So it just gets it out into the public, it gets it under discussion and it allows this committee to start to CRAFT WHAT THOSE DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES I THINK WOULD BE FOR AN OVERLAY SO THE PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSED SOME MAIN TOPICS THAT THIS COMMITTEE WOULD FOCUS ON MY NOTES ARE IN MY CAR SO THERE IT WAS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IT WAS COMMUNITY INTEGRATION COMMUNITY AND INCENTIVES I BELIEVE IT WAS THAT OR WAS IT Community integration.

Environmental considerations, discussing energy usage, water consumption, et cetera. Evaluating potential economic impacts, including jobs and tax revenue and community cooperation, considering land use zoning and community compatibility, things like that. Does that sound somewhat?

That's correct.

Okay.

And so I think what we needed to talk about tonight is how do we want to frame those discussions? And there's been some emails that I've seen, and there's lots of things to read and lots of things to hear about and read about and watch YouTube videos. And so these meetings, we don't want them to go really late, but we've allocated a couple hours each time. The one one thought is that we kind of Well, two thoughts. One of the best thoughts is to have speakers come here and talk to this group about specific topics. So we'd want to figure out who those speakers could be, any suggestions that you might have. And we had a couple in mind that could do that. Do some reading of some of the different things that we've passed around and then discuss that in kind of a, sounds funny, but a book club type fashion to discuss then at our meetings and start to pull from those discussions development guidelines that would fit into these four pillars of discussion and four pillars of work inside of that overlay committee. So with that, does anybody have any suggestions on speakers or reading materials or information that we would start to collectively take in and then collectively discuss?

There is some information in here that was a webinar. from Loudoun County, Virginia, which was very thorough. There's also one at Purdue University. We do not have that information here. That was a very good one as well. I think, too, for me personally, as we work through some of these things, we do need to talk about What would the appropriate incentives be? What would we do about the decommissioning? And what's it going to benefit our schools, public safety, and infrastructure? Those are the three things.

I know that Kayla sent us the email with the webinar from the Ohio planning. That was fantastic. I thought it was very helpful. And then the other one that came up that I thought was really important for us to consider and look into is the Microsoft Fairwater Data Center expansion in Wisconsin.

Let's see. Oh, I see Chanel's in the audience.

Are we having a technology issue?

That's not me.

Okay.

Julie, could you say that again, the Microsoft?

Microsoft Fairwater. That's a huge one.

In Wisconsin.

In Wisconsin, yes.

It was discussed in that webinar.

So I guess my thought was that for our next meeting, I liked the Loudoun County and the Ohio planning webinar. We could add this Microsoft discussion if you could pull something up and that would be our three items for next meeting to discuss under this framework.

Can you repeat that, Mike?

The Loudoun County, Virginia document that you passed out. The Ohio planning webinar that you passed out. And Microsoft Fairwater, was there some information on that? Was there an article or something?

There's a lot, and I can go in and try to find something to disseminate and send to you.

And then maybe as a fourth, maybe an easy one, I think I sent around the slides from the Indianapolis process that they just went through. I thought, interestingly enough, I noticed, I think Rhonda said that we pulled our definition from... ONE OF THE COUNTIES UP NORTH, I THINK, BUT IT ACTUALLY WAS THE EXACT SAME LANGUAGE THAT INDIANAPOLIS USED, SO THAT DEFINITION IS BECOMING VERY... WAS THAT LAPORT COUNTY? THAT WAS LATE COUNTY?

I THOUGHT IT SAID LATE COUNTY. BUT MY CONCERN WITH THAT WAS DO WE KNOW IF LATE COUNTY HAS ANY DATA CENTERS?

I HAVE NOT LOOKED INTO THAT.

OKAY. I'LL LOOK INTO THAT AND LET YOU KNOW.

YEAH, BUT I KNOW INDIANAPOLIS HAD SOME SUCCESS WITH THEIR DEFINITION WITH SOME OF THE ONES THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH TODAY, SO IT'S KIND OF A TEST OF DEFINITION.

You have that information from Laporte County? It was circulating and maybe it was just between.

I don't believe I've seen the Laporte County information.

Alright, so will you be able to you or you or Maria be able to pass that around in an email and a concise click click click read read read OK? All right, and when you're reading that and watching these videos and everything, keep in mind community integration, environmental impacts, economic impacts, community cooperations. And then think about, I know it's maybe foreign to some of you, but development guidelines and how things might develop around these types of uses.

So what's the data center down? Is it in Washington, Indiana that's just finished up? That is a direct use by META. They own the facility. I know Turner Construction built it. Would it be at all beneficial to have anyone from there Planning Commission or lessons learned I know there's one in Liston as well that Turner's building That's also meta also owned by the developer. I think it's listed up there These are two of the most expensive data centers that I know about that's happened relatively here close within the last year or two I did speak with the work one of the Morgan County Commissioners a while back and

I think they're getting a data center, too, and they pretty much laid the roadwork.

Yeah. It would be great to get somebody that's got one that's being occupied, that's been through that whole cycle. That's a good idea.

Commissioners did travel to see some, along with Rhonda Cook, the plan commission attorney. We did travel to see some, but we didn't even get a quarter of a mile of it.

Can we also take a look at the design standards in a successful overlay district we have now, just to see how they're formatted in this county? Because I think the intent is to adopt some of the learnings from all this information and incorporate it into an overlay. It'd be nice to see what we think is a good draft of it that's worked for us.

Okay, could you put onto your list to contact the Washington County Planning Director and see if somebody might have a debrief on their process and maybe that could be a recording or something that they could do for us or just pass out some bullet points if they had debriefed on their process at all?

ALLEN COUNTY, THEY ALSO, THEIR GOOGLE FACILITY DOWN THERE IS UP. AND I KNOW THEY'VE ALREADY, ONCE IT OPENED, GOOGLED ALREADY COME BACK AND ASKED FOR MORE, TO RELEASE MORE EMISSIONS. THEY MAY BE A GOOD ONE TO UNDERSTAND UP FRONT WHAT THEY NEED, REQUIREMENTS.

OKAY. CONTACT THEM AS WELL. SO I WOULD SAY IT'S GOING TO a few days to compile all that information, get it distributed. It's gonna be a lot of information to digest. So thinking about our next meeting, how much time is reasonable to digest all of this information and be prepared to meet again? Do you want two weeks, three weeks, four weeks?

Two weeks sounds good. I think we wanted to have it all said and done by October.

Yes. So this webinar that I'm reading, it's the Virginia, that's the webinar you guys were referring to. Yeah. So nuclear fusion is many years away, but they don't refer to, I can't remember the name of the type of SMR. It's another small modular reactor. Modern SMRs, at least what they refer to, do not use nuclear waste to power them, but there is one. seven years that does use existing nuclear waste to power them to produce nuclear waste to impact on our environment and prevents from producing more nuclear materials when we can already use what's already in waste. Sorry. I can get that brought up. I just can't remember what the name of the type of reactor is, but it's supposed to come here in the next five to seven years. doesn't create new waste, it uses old waste and reduces the amount of waste that the United States has overall and dissipates it, but also powers our communities or whatever is designated to power. And it's supposed to be cheaper to construct than modern SMRs as they are standing right now.

Did you say one already exists?

They're in R&D right now. The current SMRs don't use existing nuclear waste. They create more. But the one that I'm, I can't remember the exact name of it, But it's an R&D. Within five to seven years, they should be ready for construction. They use existing nuclear waste that was already produced from previous nuclear fission reactors, which would be a closer timetable than this is describing as nuclear fusion. Currently, right now, France is the only country that's able to actively sustain it. nuclear fusion, but only for about 1,100 seconds. That's not very feasible in current timescales. And that timescale that it refers to was, say, in the early 2030s. That has now been pushed to early 2045. So fusion is much further away than what we can see with other types of SMRs that might be able to productively use preexisting material that would otherwise be thrown into a concrete block and stored underground to be forgotten about.

That's good information.

I have one question. At the minutes of the plan commission from March 24th, there was a paragraph about data centers. And it said the board suggested that the staff prepare a draft moratorium language for recommendation of the Board of Commissions during the pendency of the study. Is that something you envision we would do or you would do today or when?

I made that motion, and I believe we overrode it and said we were going to defer to this committee for any moratoriums during our hearing. A moratorium did not pass as part of our instruction, and so it would be on the agenda for this group to consider.

That should be added to the agenda perhaps for the next meeting?

I think we wanted to... put the moratorium in front of this committee because we are really trying desperately not to lose our home rule. That's a big part of it. Say moratorium, that sends up flags, red flags to the state.

That's the businesses as well, that one of our other businesses here too.

there's no when you say it should be before this committee you mean this advisory committee is opposed to the zoning committee okay so any discussion of a moratorium if this committee felt that a moratorium was was the right move then that would be a recommendation to the planning commission and it would start that whole process so we can talk about that here even right now if you if you would like if you want to discuss that um

I have an opinion about that. It's tempting to just jump in and say, let's do a moratorium. And I would urge a little bit of caution about that just because That's a pretty definite final type of thing. And I believe it's kind of getting a bad reputation. But along those same lines, I've been keeping my ear to the ground. And there's a lot of places that have declared moratoriums. So I don't know. I think it's something we should look at and consider, but don't just jump to it.

I would strongly encourage us not to consider that. I think we're down a good path with this committee, but make sure we understand the bigger impact in the Elanco campus and the State Road 9 project. There's discussions, maybe potentially the USDA coming there as a hub. We'd like to get a good anchor tenant there to develop that. If you haven't read that plan, I'd encourage you to, because it is some direct feedback from the warehouses of we want thoughtful high investment development and ag bioscience. If you've read anything, that's a big initiative statewide. We are on a recent report with some of the other districts. So again, a moratorium could not only lose the home rule, but could signal to other types of investment not to come here. So I think just looking big picture wise, I think we need to think things like that, that this could impact if we go down that route.

The county is kind of taking its vision to the agriscience, life sciences, Corridor on State Road 9 and which would certainly be different than all the Speculative warehouses and things that we've had in the past so and we are working very hard to see well Maybe the USDA and ISDA is working very probably have some information on that as well May I mention

The outcome of the moratorium would be to give specific instruction to the BZA who during the pendency of this work might encounter exactly something like a decision where it's not, we're just not equipped to handle the decision type of process that we're talking about here. So it doesn't have to be a moratorium. Let's just put it somewhere where either the BZA is equipped if this comes to that board. That's really the purpose, is that while these discussions are going on, if something is routed there, we handle that appropriately.

Because today, as the process stands, if it's a special exception, it goes to the BZA. If it's a permitted use, it only goes to the technical committee.

So those committees will be subject to... Do we have appropriate due process in those committees for those types of... That's just the question, because I'm not sure this... That's really what it comes down to.

Would it be possible to do something moratorium-esque specifically only for data centers until this committee comes up with something to present?

Could we call it a pause?

Yeah, maybe don't call it a moratorium, but say we're not doing anything specifically with data centers until this committee has had the ability to run its course and make a recommendation for how we move forward specifically with data centers. under the new definition.

Yeah, we can use the definition in this draft to make it very specific to that particular type of building. Would that be helpful? Because right now what you're saying is if something comes in tomorrow, there's nothing set up to pause that. It would move forward, potentially.

Rhonda, could you go through the timing of a moratorium, if that was a process that we went down? How would that work out as compared to amending the ordinance?

It's the same process as what I explained that we're going through right now for the BOC, the Board of Commissioners, to initiate an ordinance to be crafted by the Planning Commission. So either the Planning Commission can initiate an ordinance or the Board of Commissioners. In the case of the ordinance I was talking about in my presentation, I think that was kind of the... It was the... wanting to have the same effect as kind of what you're talking about is to put a pause on things only in IG and then to put some guardrails on procedurally. So the process is an ordinance can be initiated by either a plan commission or the board of commissioners. If it's by the board of commissioners, we have them draft a resolution, send it to the plan commission. An ordinance is crafted. The public is made aware of a hearing that would be scheduled 10 days before the hearing on the ordinance. That's where we are with the one that you've read through for May 26th. And then the Planning Commission makes a determination whether to recommend to the commissioners a favorable, unfavorable, or no recommendation. But they can change the ordinance as well. They can make amendments and after the public hearing if they decide they want to make changes eventually that ordinance will get sent back to the commissioners and then they can um they can adopt the ordinance or they can reject the ordinance at that point so it's it's really up to the commissioners the process wouldn't be any faster i guess is what i'm trying to say it's exactly the process we're going through right now so the overlay ordinance is

the same duration, maybe even a little faster since it's already, we have a draft and we're a little ahead.

Right.

And I think I would argue, you know, essentially what we're doing is pretty much a moratorium without calling it a moratorium. And I know there's, everyone has, however many people are in here, we have that many different thoughts. But I think what we're doing appeases the most amount of people, which is essentially what I think we're all trying to do and do it in a good way. And so I really like where we're going. I think we've had good discussion tonight. I think we'll continue to have good discussion here. And I think we're in a really good spot just for, again, all parties involved. And I just really – I really worry – and it's not so much here, but the more – The word moratorium is similar to all your other favorite words, buzzwords. It's not so much here, but the more it gets thrown out in the state, the more likely all of us in all 92 counties are going to lose the ability to do this. I think we would all agree we don't want to lose this ability. And so I just, anything we do, I like the way you'll pause or whatever, but let's, let's do what we're doing without, I think we've seen over the last couple of legislative sessions though, we're going to lose them if there's one person out there that wants us to lose them anyway.

So I think that I agree with you, but I don't think that we can lean like super hard into, you can't say this or you can't do that because they'll get taken away because there's going to be one person that hears at one time that's in the legislator. That's then going to draft a bill. that then changes the code for all 92 counties writ large that has no impact on Hancock County or no impact on Johnson County but because Franklin County or whatever had this one instance they're they're going to do that so I'm not disagreeing with you I just disagree that you know at the end of the day we have to think what's best for our county and if that means we call it a moratorium or we don't call it a moratorium or we do this or not that like They're going to take it away from us if they want to take it away from us regardless of what we do or say about it.

Regardless of the state level, perception is reality. Moratorium is not a positive word. So if we are open for business, we want people to come here for economic development, we can't do it. So this is a great start. Overlays are actually sometimes for communities to add value. Look at what happened up 31 in Carmel. Thank God he did the overlay, right? It's beautiful. So my point is overlay is a positive term. It's not so much pause. It's how do we add value? How do we get the cream of the crop? So I think we're on a great path.

I think that's a really good point. I hadn't thought about it quite that clearly yet, but that essentially I always like to think that our county is trying to lead in situations like we're in right now in this environment. And by putting an ordinance out there, we put this committee in place, we put a draft ordinance out that's, like Rhonda said, bare bones, and then we have a... system in place to enhance that over the next month or two and Possibly come up with something that's very good and very positive.

I do like though. It's stopping at the commissioners I think the smaller body with this overlay Again, I like flexibility not just for us But also for the developers coming in then because each case as you've seen time and time again has its own benefits has its own nuances so not to write this that it's specific to policy all the time. Can we leave a little flexibility?

And that process, if I heard correctly, adds another opportunity for public input as well. It does. One more meeting for the public to provide input.

Also, I mean, it's safe to say just because somebody comes forward even today with a proposed data center that it's going to go through planning and be approved and all the other steps. I mean, we've had projects that came through in the warehousing that we asked for additional information or we had continuances or there were other things that were required that they provide. So I guess we have things in place already. that if we're unclear or we don't feel comfortable with, that there's ways to elongate that process and get the information that we need to make better quality decisions. So I don't think the word monitorium is a good use to use when you're trying to attract investment in your community. I think this thoughtful process is a much better, more effective way to be able to do that. Anybody that wants to invest money in here, wants to be a good neighbor, and this process allows that to be, it's very transparent. So I think that gives the opportunity for dialogue, so it can make all of our projects be better. I guess the other thing, I also have done a lot of research on data centers. And it seems like, too, that we ought to be asking ourselves, we don't have to be the model that everybody else is that's already done. There are some really unique kinds of things that are out there. In Texas, they're using ways to create the water in a capture way that's creating tourism. I mean, there's a lot of different kinds of other things out there. And it seems like we ought to be thinking about, how can we be the most attractive, innovative, data centers, because they are coming. I mean, not just Indiana, but across the country, that makes it unique and keeps the things that we care about in perspective and valued versus just being, you know, anti-everything.

I like that thought. The one thing I do want to say is A data center is not an investment, okay? It's not gonna bring you an economic benefit. It really won't. Maybe in the beginning, when they first start to build, you'll see an upsurge in people and quote-unquote jobs. Long-term, no.

I agree with that. 50 jobs is what most of them said. If you're lucky.

Most of that's going to be offshore and or remote workers. They're going to occupy space, and they're going to bring services to some company that's providing services. But from our perspective, we'd be far better served to look at, I'm just saying, you know, If you want to create the corridor and go after Elanco or the other services like that, that'll probably bring you more of an investment than a data center will.

But we also need to consider the fact that our county government has all the opportunity to tell those individuals what we want financially. Right. And if you read the information on LaPorte County, and I'll try to resurrect that again, we could have a speaker that is familiar with incentives. We don't have to give it away. We don't have to give away the farm. They can pay us to be here.

It might be nice to get some testimony on incentive packages. Jobs is one part of the story. Infrastructure cost shifting is another. Other commitments to public benefit. There's a lot of other programs that can be put in place. And I would like to see the long-term impact of jobs because of the continuing construction that goes on. It'd be nice to get some testimony on that from existing operations.

I'd like to say, looking at the webinar page, it talks about the tax revenue for data centers being about $0.04 per $1 tax revenue received, whereas, and this is only in their county, I assume, but businesses costing $0.25 per $1 revenue, also putting a few cars on the road and very few kids in schools. Tax revenue showed, it said about $940 million. Again, that's just reading from the webinar here. I haven't actually had a deep... into it because we just got it but that's just looking at the surface what this talks about and we got multiple citations here maybe we can reevaluate or look at that to get a clearer picture of what it also depends on what abatements those counties get you do not want to give abatement on personal property we want every tax from that agree so that that for sense I don't know if it's based on property tax abatement only like I said it's just service looking at it yeah so something more to delve into really look at

I really feel we have a whole eastern side of our county that is not open for business because it doesn't have any utilities. We just heard Nine Star this Thursday come up and ask for money from the RDC. They're also in, you know, DC asking for money. I mean, we need water up State Road 9. We have major environmental issues with streams because of failing septic. So we have issues in this county. We struggle for 20 plus years. I've worked on the RDC for 20 years. We finally have enough money to put an exchange in at 200 West, which is really going to help open that area up. So if people can't get there, they can't live there, they can't do business there. So hopefully some of the money from the status center can add some of those improvements that are necessary.

Our comprehensive plan has the eastern borders of our county to retain agriculture at this point. know Charlottesville is in they've got terrible problems with water and sewer and old septics no septics at all you know those types of issues that we've been addressing for years and years and years I know George can attest to this he brings it up every three weeks so to to make benefit people in the Charlottesville area but the cost versus the homes you know and a lot of those folks don't want to be signed up on sewer and water so those are things that we have to address but for right now As we look at the western borders of the county, that's where our highly industrialized commercial is in for our comprehensive plan. And that plan has really been that way since 2005. We just didn't see a lot of growth until 2016 in there. So honestly, it's taken its toll on Mount Vernon School Corporation, public safety, infrastructure. Those are things that we need to talk about with anybody coming in. It's not us abating them. They have to help us. Agreed.

I would concur with what you're saying Janine from speaking from out not speaking from Mount Vernon schools, but being a part of Mount Vernon schools People see all the growth that's happening there all this all that and they think the schools have Reaped the benefits of that and we haven't we haven't reaped the benefits of all the development that's happened in that corridor like what people think and Our growth has gone up substantially. We're larger than Greenfield schools, yet we have less resources than other peers of our same level. And we're projected to grow even significantly more, which will mean additional resources. And SEA 1 has hurt us like it's hurt Everyone else as well, but if you're a growing school district It's killing you and so anything that we're thinking about doing or giving or whatever to be needs to be really thoughtful I think that they on I just had a meeting today with a Company we're talking about County schools You can't go wrong in Hancock County in a school district. We have something that meets the needs of anyone that would want to move here. Not every county in the state of Indiana or across the country can say that. We have a very good product. And so we don't want to dilute that product because that is a factor in economic development about people wanting to live a quality sense of place. So I think we need to be real constant like Janine's saying about what we're doing, what we're giving, what we're leveraging, and what we're going to receive back from it, but also being a good corporate citizen. It can't be just a, you know, take, you know, give and take, but thinking about not just for what happens today, but thinking about the people that will live here for 20, 25 years from now from the decisions that we make or don't make. I think it's critically important to be thoughtful in that kind of Manner as well, and I think it also gives us a lot of room to be creative and be able to to attract Different kinds of companies, which I was going to ask, you know, in these examples and these speakers that potentially could come, I would really like to learn more about how that data center leveraged additional clusters that came, not that created the 50 jobs that we know that's pretty standard history, but like did other companies come there because they had this data center that provided some kind of service or some kind of need? I don't know.

Probably the ancillary services. Right.

Like what else happened because of it or didn't happen? Was it a deterrent for other businesses to come to the community? Like how was the cost of infrastructure spread out? Did they contain the infrastructure, being the company that came? Or did they build it and pass it on to the residents that lived there that received no benefit from it? So I think like those are the kinds of things. For me, just as a member, what I would find beneficial is, like, I'd like to know the byproducts, not just of the initial investment that they made or the 50 jobs potentially that it creates, but what else did it do to the base of the place of the area? Did people exit that didn't want to live there anymore? I mean, I think those are all important kinds of things that we should ask, too.

if there's any examples where something came in and the tax base grew so much that property taxes were lowered I know speaking for everyone but also AG owners I mean we're not immune I'm sure everyone else here I mean those continue to go up I know Farm Bureau is working on it but there's an example where something was able to lower property taxes not only for everyone but especially for agriculture again you think you know substantial benefit That could be a substantial benefit to not only small but large, all-size family farms to keep those farms going and in business, because that is a huge expense. And if that could be even offset or just minimized going forward, I mean, that could be a huge benefit to the ag part of our county. So I don't know if that exists, but if that does exist somewhere, that'd be great to hear some testimony on that.

I know Purdue University put out a study every year on development, what that does to agriculture land prices. But George Mason University, they did a study for Loudoun County. And they showed that the growth out there wasn't because of the data centers. It was in spite of them. They already had a lot of the businesses and schools that were desirable. So people still chose to live out there in spite of the data center. So what do we have to offer? Is the western part of the county that desirable that if a data center went out there, would it detract or attract? As far as the eastern side where we farm out there a lot, as developments go in, we've seen, I think it was Morgan County, the net assessed value goes up because our farmland becomes very valuable to developers. It doesn't have to be a data center. It can be anybody, which is great if you want to sell and get out. But if you want to farm, like myself for the rest of my life, it's not a very good thing because we're going to see increase in prices. It can also be a really negative thing because not all farmers own all their land. We rent. So when we see a data center come in and they typically they're buying five to six hundred acres. You could have one farmer lose five to six hundred acres that they rent. That's a substantial piece of their business. So it's not always just the farmers selling and they're going to be able to retire Very very nicely it can it could potentially cause some of our farmers to Tap out totally and that's going to completely change a lot of generational farms It's going to change the county if we start to see that downward pressure on our generational farmers and people that want to continue that tradition and So I just want to keep that in mind, too, when we're talking about development, where we want to develop. If we're looking at focusing on expanding our agriculture down corridor nine, I mean, that's wonderful, but if a data center comes in and pushes us all out, then what do we look like then? So that's just something to keep in mind.

There is the question of kind of defining the data centers, which I've struggled with is nobody's really come up with a good like category. Like I've read like there's five sizes or there's five types, but I haven't been able to get good definitions of those. I don't know how we do that, but I think we should try to, is figure out what the scale is. Because you mentioned they do look at 500 acres. Those are the hyperscalers, I guess, that they call those. But then there's also a lot of data centers that are showing up like the ones that are happening in Indianapolis are small.

And I don't know what they call them. They're very discreet.

modular or whatever and and kind of to your point earlier is i don't think one size fits all and that's kind of the beauty of this overlay idea is that it gives the plan commission and the board of commissioners and even this committee an opportunity to take a crack at every single one of those projects and understand them and try to fit them in i guess to our zoning

So there is a tier system that does exist, and they go one through four, one being allowed downtime of 29 hours a year, and then tier four, only 26 minutes out of the year allowed downtime. And hyperscale is such a, it's become such a buzzword because that's just a term for massive data center, but it could still be a tier one because it has no redundancy built into it whatsoever. So that's how... When it comes to how long they're allowed to be down or what kind of backup systems they have in mind, there is the tier system going one through four. Like I said, one being 29 hours, tier four being 26 minutes before downtime.

Don't forget the pace of technology. I mean, we're sitting here talking about it right now and it's changing as we're talking.

I THINK THAT'S WHY THE COMMISSIONERS REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO JUST LOOK AT EVERY SINGLE PROJECT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN KEEP UP.

THEY CONSIDER BITCOIN FARMS ALSO AS DATA CENTERS WHICH I DON'T REALLY CONSIDER THAT BECAUSE IT'S JUST FARMING. IT'S USING LITERAL ELECTRICITY JUST TO MAKE BITCOIN. IT'S NOT WHAT A TRADITIONAL DATA CENTER IMPLIES OR WHAT WE EVEN THINK OF AI DATA CENTERS. IT DOESN'T EVEN DO THAT. ALL IT DOES IS USE ELECTRICITY TO CREATE.

A LOT OF ELECTRICITY.

Right, yeah, it's insane. And they're very noisy at that too. And that is, I wouldn't even want to put them under that same category of data center because you can even have them small and they still make a lot of noise. Should even modern ones.

Sam, could you say one more time, the tiered system, is that in the Loudoun County webinar? Is that what you were reading that from?

Oh, no, this is just from my educational background. Oh, okay. And I can bring resources for that. I just didn't have them today.

What did you say that they were tiered based on? And what is that tiered?

So the tiered system originally is based on, like, how much downtime is allowed for them until they're up and operational again. So it's almost like you can relate it to when your Internet goes down, how long they have until they have to get it back up and running, except... With data centers, it's servers that are being rented out or being leased out by certain companies or individuals that are renting them out. And that goes with how much downtime per year, whereas your internet, there's allowed to be downtime per month. So they have a tighter regulation, even when it comes to NFPA requirements and job specs. of how long they're allowed to be down. And that goes from tier one, like I said, it was 29 hours a year. And it's like a 99.625% upkeep or uptick is what they call that. And then all the way up to tier four, where they're only allowed per year 26 minutes. And that goes to signed contracts and agreements on whoever is using or leasing or renting out those servers. If they breach that contract, they can be sued for not following that protocol by the contractors or by customers using it or whoever is using those servers. They have a legal obligation to Maintain that versus internet. It's well you get your internet back when we get your internet back suck it Related to scale or size.

No, correct.

It's a it's a rebounded see Criteria Loudoun County does address the hyperscale in the co-location What we're talking about in Indianapolis or edge Locations and then there's other types of campuses. So when we talk facility, it's not really a great match especially since it doesn't capture power generation, waste storage, trans, I mean, interconnectedness. There's just a lot that goes on. So we'll need to migrate the definition to more of a campus. And then you would look at sizing, probably with hyperscale edge and colocation on campus.

I mean, typically they do upgrade the tier system as they get larger, because obviously the more people they rent out, the lesser risk they want being sued by customers or by businesses. It doesn't strictly fall of size, I guess is what I'm saying for it.

There's electric use and there is the physical size.

Yes.

Are they, what is the noise generation? You've been in an operational data center.

So most of the noise comes from fan cooling technology.

Yeah, cooling.

That's, that is entirely.

Diesel backups and vibration are real big too.

Backups, if it's backup, typically they only run them about two hours a week just to make sure the DEF system is still intact, making sure everything's still running as it should in the event of that emergency.

But when they run, they create a huge amount of noise.

Right, but it would be also classified as a non-continuance load, which means it runs under two hours, which has different guidelines for decibel readings when it comes to noise. I can't think of it off the top of my head, but it changes entirely how the power factor is calculated for when they draw or when they produce. It's a whole different categorization.

Have you been in any facilities where, like, there's a buffer when you stand outside of it that works that you can say it's definitely worked where they do berms with trees or anything like that that is better than the other or is any of it worked well or a certain distance that you found if you've experienced that? If there's a data center and you stand 200 yards outside of it and there's a buffer, Does that buffer work? Is it dead in that sound that comes from it?

Typically, when I'm on site, we're building them. They only do the testing upon installation. And then once project phasing, depending on the phase of the project is, they don't test it again until as they test it more. But I've only ever seen them tested twice. But when projects are completed, we're sent off. So I don't actually get to witness said projects when they're actually doing the cycling on a week. depending on what their requirement is based on manufacturer specifications. It could be daily requirement, it could be weekly. I mean, Cummins has a different requirement than, per se, generic would have a different requirement. So we're seeing them tested.

I think what you're hearing, too, is that there's not necessarily anything definitive that says testing must be done to determine decibel level. But what I've seen in the past... is when there's complaints, then suddenly you go in and start testing to see what is the decibel level at this time and so on and so forth. And that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with any barriers that were installed. It's just that someone made a complaint.

We handle these really effectively now with dissimilar uses in our zoning with either setbacks or burns. And depending upon the adjacent use, we have the ability to probably outline any type of overlay district setback requirements. And we do these really, it's an effective as a review in these types of meetings.

We've always struggled. I'm glad noise came up because we don't regulate noise here. We don't really have noise ordinances here.

We have a very general set of industrial standards.

Yeah. So that might be something that we want to talk a little more about in additional meetings and make some recommendations. to the Plant Commission for this overlay district to have some requirements of decibel levels at the property line. I've seen that before where there's been, like, I don't know, so many decibels at the property line any time of the day, you know, that's in industrial-type properties.

I mean, it'd be different if it were industrial versus, you know, another adjacent use, right? So there'd be some sort of tiering for that.

And then, of course, the problem with that becomes when you dig down into it and why we've always struggled with it is the enforcement. It's really hard. It's like you get the complaint, you've got to send somebody out there, the noise is not there when he gets there with the festival meter.

Or even providing the proper tools, because I dealt with one recently here in Greenfield that the complaint was made from about a mile and a half north of I-70, and this individual was just bound and determined that it was Avery Dennison. that was causing this noise issue and 2.30, 3 o'clock in the morning, she can't sleep and it's because Avery Dennison is making this noise. Well, I was working with the city of Greenfield and they're like, we've been at the site, we've been near the property, we've been on adjacent properties, you can't tell if it's that or if it's the interstate or this or that. They're just bound and determined that it's Avery Dennison that's causing the issue. So how do you determine that and then what tools do you have at your disposal to be able to determine where the noise is coming from? then you have to have the actual decibel meters, and that's another expense, and then maintaining those, calibrating those.

Setting a time of day for that to happen would be probably the most effective because then you know when it's going to happen, if they schedule it on what kind of basis they scheduled on, then you could predictably put the decibel readers right there, knowing when they're going to do it at what specific time of day rather than just whatever you want.

You could require that they supply their backup schedules so that you have that information.

Oh, okay.

I guess when you're talking about the environmental question pieces, like maybe it's because I'm from McCordsville and we have 25 trains that go by every day and if you live close to that, you know what I mean? You're kind of used to noise and I think it's probably could be equivalent to what you say a small data center could create. So I wonder, too, like I am sure like a lot of others have gone through industrial parks that you would never know that they were an industrial park because of all the landscaping and the way that the berms were done, built around that it actually was an aesthetic enhancement to the community. So I know we have a landscaping ordinance, But I also wonder if it shouldn't be a consideration on the data center pieces that we have an enhanced landscaping piece to that, that heightens it, that becomes less intrusive visually and would block that, especially if they're not contributing. Like I say, I say a storefront, that's probably not the right term, but just something where it's just something you're going to be driving by versus something that's going to be operational where people are going to, the general public will be going in and out. I... down in Behebron, down in Kentucky. You know, they have all the logistics pieces there, and they've totally rebuilt. I think it's Boone County. But they have a huge industrial park there, and I guarantee you if you drove by it, you wouldn't see what's in it until you went into the actual entrance because it's all totally landscaped with trees and high berms, and it's sort of hidden, but it's significant. And so I think I think the steadiness about how it appears in our community by listening to people is important. It might be there, but they don't really want to see it. If it has to be there, they don't really want to see it.

Would you say that in Hebron, does that look like it's reforested, gone back to natural, or it's manicured?

I think it might be a little. It's been there for a while, so it could have not been like it is now, but it's significant. Now in the frontage, you wouldn't even know. In Hebron... I think it's on more on the other side. Is it Burlington? Burlington's on the other side. Sorry. They totally, you can see what the investment's done to the community because it was probably a pretty small place and they have significant new things that have been built there. But the tactness of the community is still there, a small downtown area, lots of housing. But that specific industrial park, you don't really see until you really drive in and know that it's there in the way that they've planned it and developed it.

That's the same way, Renee, in New Albany, Ohio. I mean, you can't even tell you're actually there.

Right. And I know it's not probably our charge, but, you know, Clark was talking about the agricultural piece. So, you know, my family... We don't personally, but my husband's family has been in agriculture their whole life in a variety of different ways, from planning to owning elevators and a variety of things like that. But agriculture has changed a lot. And so if there's some way in this piece that if we're utilizing farmland, maybe that there's ways that we could show added value to farmers in the way that they're using the land to be able to create a higher revenue to help generate, but at the same time protect that piece of identity that we don't want to lose in Hancock County? I don't know. I know that's a side step. That's not really the charge of the committee, but that might be something that we might want to think about, too. Like, how can we strengthen that piece?

A little more than keeping it flat so we can bail it for hay.

Yeah. I'm not signing that. There's nothing wrong with bailing hay. I've done bailing hay. Over here.

So we're down to...

I will add on that, and I will look further into this and see if I can find the article, but in California they did a data center, and with the emissions that come off the CO2, they have a greenhouse next to it. So if we're talking agriculture, THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT MAYBE AS AN INCENTIVE THAT WE COULD GROW MORE FOOD IN THIS COUNTY VIA GREENHOUSE. I'LL SEE IF I CAN FIND THAT ARTICLE AND SEND IT OUT.

THAT DOES MAKE ME THINK OF A SECTION IN OUR SOLAR OVERLAY AND HOW WE AMENDED SOME OF OUR INDUSTRIAL BUILDING STANDARDS AS PART OF THAT. THE LANGUAGE GOT SOFTENED INTO A MAY INSTEAD OF A SHALL AT THE Highly encouraged there to be solar as an accessory rooftop use on industrial buildings encouraged developers to build warehouses to support like 25% solar roof coverage and basically excuse them out of like some lot coverage or there was some bonus or incentive like, hey, if you do this, we're not gonna make you go to the BZA or something if it's on a rooftop. But anyway, I guess what I'm getting at there is there could be language that requires some more sustainable use of the waste product.

Yeah, I like that idea. And then with that, talking on energy, I did like talking about them creating their own energy. One of the big issues that I hear a lot is if they connect to the grid, where the line's gonna run and whose land is going to have to be eminent domain for that. And that is a huge piece that if they come here, perhaps that they don't connect to the grid or we already have something established where people know it's coming because that's something that causes a lot of distress for people.

So we're inside of our, coming up to our 7.30 time here. So kind of want to start to wrap up a little bit. Does anybody have, has there been any thoughts that you haven't been able to get out? Phil, you haven't spoke much?

I haven't said much. I would comment, I guess, on the concept of a pause or moratorium. I think what that does is it limits your possibilities, honestly. You want to be available for something that's really good that you want. If you say we're out of business, then you're out of business. And my experience with the Nine Star Board and my experience with Wabash Valley is there's a lot of development going on. You know, Hancock County is the last county to develop around, last donut county to develop because it's been very conservative in how it has gone about controlling development. Well, now you're at the point where it's going to happen. Either it happens to you or it happens in a controlled way that you like it. And that's, I think, for me, one of the reasons I wanted to be on this committee was the fact that it gives you an opportunity through the overlay to, in fact, establish ground rules that you want people to live by. And then you end up with something you want.

Well said, Phil.

Well, so you didn't speak much. Do you have anything on your mind that you want to kick out?

Are you talking to me? I have a lot on my mind. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm just going to keep quiet for now.

For now? Okay. I'm just taking it all in. Taking it all in. There's a lot. Well, there'll be a lot to read soon, so, yeah.

I think as we do our research and we come across articles that are, you know, credible articles, forward them to Kayla and she can distribute to...

I want to break this down into any comments on what articles.

That's what I was getting ready to ask you. Did you have a list of to do's or do you want some help with that? Because I took good notes.

I was wondering if we wanted to stick say different topics into certain meetings. Like we talked about, we kind of covered a little bit of everything tonight. And at the beginning we talked about some very rough notes about what the future meetings are going to be kind of, what those agendas will be developed around. Do we want to stick to that or do we need to kind of see where this takes us?

Well, we could, of those four discussion topics that we mentioned, we could try to, everything that you put out to read or watch is gonna cover kind of everything. So we could just have our next meeting maybe focus on say environmental, or it could be like the community integration, community cooperation, or we could make that the topic that we're gonna try to hold our discussion to.

Each time and if we could have a speaker maybe yeah, yeah That that would be great also Maybe have a segment Talk about you know What that means what they can bring to the county and

COULD WE CREATE A SHARED FOLDER, LIKE ALL THESE ARTICLES THAT EVERYBODY IS GIVING, LIKE 10,000 EMAILS, WHICH ARE GREAT, BUT COULD WE HAVE LIKE A PLACE THAT DEPOSITORY FOR THEM THAT WE COULD GO IN AND READ THEM AND MAYBE.

A PLACE WHERE WE COULD STORE THE DATA FOR THIS MEETING.

YES. I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR ME.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE. I'LL WORK WITH IT TOMORROW TO SEE WHAT WE CAN COME UP WITH FOR THAT.

I THINK WE SHOULD PUT THAT ON OUR WEBSITE ACTUALLY. I LIKE THAT. THE PUBLIC CAN GET TO IT THEN AND READ IT TOO.

Good information. It would be nice if we solved some of the technical matters, like maybe the design standards and technical committee considerations, because I do think some of the procedural discussions we'll need to have about the ordinance will come out from that. And then we'll know what to incentivize and how that would be. So environmental, we talk about maybe impact fees. All of the technical, that would be excellent to define that first, because I think IF WE DECIDE PROCEDURAL FIRST, WE'LL HAVE TO COME RIGHT BACK TO IT. INCENTIVES FIRST, WE'LL HAVE TO COME RIGHT BACK TO IT AFTER DOING THAT.

SO DESIGN STANDARDS AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FAIRLY EARLY ON?

YES, AND TECHNICAL COMMITTEE EXPANSIONS. I THINK IT'S ALL IN THE SAME.

OKAY.

I THINK THAT'S GOOD. I THINK THE PLAN COMMISSION IS GOING TO NEED SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON THAT.

All right. And I guess one thing that I was thinking a little bit, and I bet that Phil has a little bit to say about this, is how much, I mean, how available, how much power is there to move to data centers and stay away from other uses that we're pursuing? Hancock County is this square. It's not getting any bigger. And I know that there is a limit on how much power we have to split between uses.

Well, provision of electricity is How's the best way to say that? It's not a local problem, okay? If Morgan County needs generation to supply electricity to that plant, it's going to affect the whole grid. The best thing that you can do, and what happened with Metta in Boone County at the Leap District was, that was Wabash Valley territory, and Boone County is an RMC. And so what happened there was, the agreement was made that, Meta would actually contract for the power generation. They went and found a generator out of state. That's how they pay for their electricity. Wabash then said, it's going to take 12 miles of new transmission and three new substations to just get them through the first phase. In that situation, then what happened was Google's now paying for that transmission. That capital equipment that's going to take to develop, to feed that site. And so that's what you want to lay into the overlay is a requirement that they provide their own electricity.

Bring your own. Bring your own. There's a dollar amount on that.

Oh, it's huge. It's also Google. Yeah. And that's the thing that we discovered. Meta, Google, Microsoft, Amazon are your three big players. The amount of money they have available to them, they can do whatever they want. And literally when Wabash said, well, it's going to cost $500 million for a generating plant just to get you through phase one, they said, oh, no problem. Here's $500 million. I'll go do that. And we said, fine, keep us out of it because we don't want the risk of them walking away in five years, as was mentioned earlier, and then leave all that capital investment on Wabash. rate payers, remaining rate payers, because the generators are minimum 40-year financing. And so you have to be able to sell that electricity for 40 years just to get your original investment back.

Okay. That's, I think, probably a whole meeting on energy and things like that.

And I just want to throw out, let's not forget water. And I don't mean water for cooling systems. I mean water for discharge and water usage as well, because one thing I've noticed with a couple other places is suddenly the water update tables are no being updated. So you're not actually seeing the consumption. And then on top of that, the releasing things into the, you know, byproducts and pollutants that are being that are detrimental. And I want to make sure we tackle that when we get to that with your overlay.

All right. All right. I think, yeah, there, I think we've come full circle. Go ahead, Mike.

Where to next? So I, well, we're at the end of our two hour time. So maybe we'll get minutes distributed. The topic for next meeting will be, what did we just decide? Do we want to hit utilities in the next meeting?

Or do we want to go straight into development standards, things that will be regulated at the technical committee?

I think that's a good idea. That's probably the more pressing piece. Okay.

I'm wondering if you want to make sure we're all on the same page as far as whatever we need to have a shared understanding of as, you know, like we mentioned the different webinars or things to review in advance.

Right. Yes, I agree.

I'll try to divide things between different meeting topics and that should help a little bit.

And in that vein, did we settle on two weeks between meetings? Or did we leave that off? We didn't settle.

We didn't settle. Do you want to do two? Do you want to do three?

I would propose three as a happy medium just to give each body person here their due diligence time to make sure that we can get all the information disseminated.

Yeah, so what do we...

I have a feeling there's going to be a lot come out of each of these meetings. So we're on a... We want to make sure we have everybody get their eyes on them.

Yeah, so we're on a Monday here. One of the things we wanted to do is make sure that we weren't the same... day, just in case anybody has other meetings. So what if we move to a Wednesday and called it two and a half weeks, so June 3rd? Yeah.

Will you allow for virtual participation?

I'm going to pass that one to Rhonda.

um we have to have a virtual meeting resolution adopted but the plan commission has that and since that is a this is a subcommittee um i don't know whether we have to have our own resolution but if that's something we need to do can easily put that in place is june 4th better are you just out that week i know i can't be here on the third or fourth but don't slow down

I'm out that week also. I picked a bad week.

If we could do virtual, then that would help. Or we could shoot on out to the 8th because we could have a little more reading material than we might have in the future.

Sunday?

Monday the 8th.

We need to make sure that this room is... There is you have the schedule dusty.

Night.

What is?

Call the double header. How about the night?

Is it open? June 9th. Anyone thumbs up going once.

That's a Tuesday, June 9th.

Might as well be a Friday for going to be here. June 9th.

June 9th, right?

I just hope it doesn't rain like it did. OK, so electricians are scared over it. Every year looks beautiful. Appreciate it.

I like to have motions to adjourn, so somebody make that motion.

I motion to adjourn.

We have a second? Second. All right. Pick anybody as the second, Maria. Oh, okay. All right. It's been moved and seconded to adjourn our first data center committee meeting. Favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Same sign. Thank you all very much for your time today. This is, for some of us planning geeks, this is real.