Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the uh excuse me, Hancock County Area Plant Commission meeting of March 24th. Um like to call the meeting to order. We'll ask that everybody please turn off their cell phones and other electronic and noisemaking devices. Our first order of business this evening would be the adoption of last month's meeting minutes that were submitted to us electronically. I make a motion that we approve the minutes for February 20. uh 24th, 2026 [laughter] as presented via email. Second. Second. All right. Moved and seconded to accept the meeting minutes from February presented electronically. All those in favor signify by saying I. I.

Oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. [cough and clears throat] Looks like this evening we'll minus uh three members. So that gives us six. Uh any action this evening will require uh five members to vote. uh together for any action to be taken. I'd like to advise everybody that their testimony this evening is being recorded and taken under oath. We also request that anybody wishing um to speak only do so when called upon. We'll ask that you face our attorney to my left and be sworn in before speaking. All persons speaking will be asked to give their full name for the record. Spell your last name uh so we have good accurate meeting minutes. And please be sure to speak directly into the microphone. And if you ever can't hear me, just say speak into the microphone. So remember to do that. Our uh typical order is our planning director will give a staff report and then the petitioner is given 10 minutes for their presentation. That presentation is then followed by 10 minutes collective for any remmonstrators. We then offer five minutes to any government officials and then finally five minutes for the petitioner's rebuttal time. Our attorney will give each party a two-minute and a one minute warning. We ask that all persons conduct themselves this evening in a civil manner and we reserve the right that if you cannot do that, we reserve the right to ask you to leave. This meeting this evening is rec is being recorded and streamed for public viewing. By participating, you acknowledge that your image, voice, and comments may be captured and made publicly available. This meeting has been properly noticed in accordance with Indiana code 5141.5. And those black chairs are the ones that are probably on camera. So, if you don't want to be on camera, don't sit there. [laughter] So, all right. With that, we have uh one hearing item this evening and then we'll have um a few other business items to address. So, we'll start with um hearing

item number one. Looks like Joseph Hollis a reszone from a to rural residential. [clears throat] This reszone is located approximately at 9600 East US 40. This is in Jackson Township and is located near the intersection of US 40 and Granderson Road. It is just west of Charlottesville. The request is to reszone 10.356 acres currently zoned agricultural to rural residential um which would allow the property owner to subdivide the parcel as a major subdivision. done some research [snorts] on the parent tracts in this case and it's exceeded the number of times it can be split as a minor subdivision and that's the reason we need to reszone in order to pursue a major subdivision or to split the parcel any further. You can see here that most of the area is zoned agricultural uh with a confined feeding operation just to the west. Um, this is outside of the buffer zone for that uh feeding operation, so it's not of concern in this case. It is also across the road from another property that is zoned uh rural residential, the Randall Roller Minor subdivision. I'm sorry, minor, but it's zoned rural residential. Um, and then we have uh just you can see the edge of Charlottesville, which is the orange and pink areas on the east side of the screen. The petitioner's uh intent is to divide the uh 10 acres into three separate lots for his children to build homes. Um his

intent is also to minimize residential development by providing larger lot sizes while maintaining the rural aesthetics in this area. There are several properties in this area that have smaller or similar lot sizes. Uh most of these as you turn north on Granderson Road, you'll see a very nice rural residential district has formed. Mr. Hollis also owns property to the north of this um site that actually has access to Granderson Road. If we look at the comprehensive plan guidance, we have the village of Charlottesville as a sub region. Um, our comprehensive plan says infill vacant parcels that can be served adequately by on-site septic and wells. Minimize development expansion onto adjacent agricultural land. So, it's saying think carefully about that, especially as we've got some utility issues out there. Um, it talks about transportation recommendations um and utilities recommendations such as those failing septic systems in Charlottesville. Um more broadly that southeast region is predominantly agricultural and plan to stay that way. Uh there is discussion of residential subdivision development but kept to a minimum um and with mind being mindful of the uh needs of septic because there isn't a lot of utility availability out there. So try to limit sprawl. Our zoning ordinance currently lists the the residential rural zoning district as uh an area intended to provide areas for a mixture of agricultural and residential land uses. This mixture is intended to

promote and maintain agricultural operations while allowing minimal residential development. This district should be used to provide unique rural housing options with the ability to connect to available infrastructure. And I'm going to read the agricultural zoning district just to give a little bit more um understanding of why the reszone is necessary in this case to do what Mr. Hollis wants to do. The agriculture zoning district is intended to provide locations for agricultural operations and related land uses. This district is further intended to reduce conflicts between residential and agricultural uses, preserve the viability of agricultural operations, and limit development in areas with minimal infrastructure. Single family dwellings are permitted in the A district except that major residential subdivisions are not permitted. So once we get past that split of three three lots per minor subdivision out of a parent parcel, that's it. past that, it needs to be appropriate to reszone a piece to something more intensive in order to pursue a major subdivision. And that's why we're here today. Okay, I've got a little print out from our um comp plan regarding the agricultural rural um land use uh description that's shown on our future land use map. Um pretty much aligns with our agricultural uh zoning district intent. Yeah, very low density residential uh uses such as farm houses, farmworker housing, detached single family homes at densities equal to or greater than one unit per 20 acres is what is suggested. And then it shows here the potential

plat layout that Mr. Hollis has presented. You can see he's got a shared driveway coming in off of US40, which accounts for the kind of odd jog at the very front there. Um, and each lot is about three acres in size, which is plenty large to support uh septic and a backup septic location. So, if uh Rezone is successful, um Mr. Hollis will submit a primary plat followed by a secondary plat and then um is allowed to pursue uh building permits. So that's the process. Uh we don't issue the building permits until this plat would be complete which requires the reszone to be complete. You can see that the zoning uh the lot standards for agricultural and rural residential lots are very similar. Um both have the same minimal uh minimum lot size. uh lot coverage is just a little bit bigger on the rural residential uh I'm sorry on the yeah on the rural residential uh lot district at 35% um the you know some very very slight changes okay our comprehensive plan gives us a few items to consider for reszones u or I'm sorry our zoning ordinance uh gives us a few items to consider um as you're considering this reason. Is this in keeping with the comprehensive plan? Is this in keeping with the current conditions and character of current structures uses in the area? Is this the most desirable use for which the land is adapted? What impact on property values will this have across the county? Is this responsible growth

and development? So, those are the five questions you should consider as you vote on whether or not to reszone this property. Included just a few pictures um as we scroll through of the of the area. There are three paths moving forward. favorable recommendation, no recommendation, or an unfavorable recommendation to the board of commissioners. My staff recommendation is favorable. Um, this is kind of a transitional area between agricultural um at the top of the hill. As you go down that hill across Granderson Road and into Charlottesville, you really quickly go from rural residential to Dense Village and then back out again on the other side in um Henry or Rush County right there to um Henry. Yep.

East. Yes. To the east um into uh very much again agricultural area. So [clears throat] the rural residential zone could act as a transition in this case. And there is RR across the road. Did you say there is one RR across the road? Yes. I'll turn it over to Mr. Hollis at this point unless you have any questions for me. Um just a point of clarification for the five questions then you would have answered in the affirmative to each in your recommendation.

Maybe a little neutral on some of them. Um but I could see uh rural residential in this location um as being supported. So okay, any discussion about maintenance agreement for shared maintenance agreements for shared easements typically be see as part of this in some point. Would you bring that up later? Um that'll be dealt with later either as part of the primary or secondary plat. Okay. And any other layouts that you've looked at for the subdivision or the houses? The the subdivision. Uh, I'm tempted to ask for dedication of some of the rideway on US 40, but I can take that up with INDOT as part of the platting. Thank you.

Any more questions for the staff? [clears throat] All right, we'll have the petitioner up. Thanks. I'll swear you in. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Please state your name and spell your last name. Uh, Joseph Hollis, H O L L I S. You have 10 minutes. Go ahead.

Thank you. Um I was approached oh by the um Lewis's a couple years ago about them selling some property off of 40 which is in front of my property off of um Granison Road. Uh they mentioned that they were thinking about subdividing it themselves. So, at the time, I decided, you know, I'll go ahead and buy that, subdivide it myself for my kids, cuz as everyone knows with inflation now, it's pretty impossible to buy something reasonable these days for homes. So, it was a great opportunity for me to find some land inexpensively and and subdivide it. And when I purchased it, and you know, I've been here for decades in the county, and I've seen for decades 10 acres or more being subdivided into three acres. So, at the time I thought, okay, this would be a minor subdivision, three lots. And then I found out that there had been some changes and the first split, well, I guess the purchase off of Lewis counted as one split. So, knock me down to two lots. So, that's why I'm here today, uh, to seek permission to convert it from agricultural to rural residential, um, and move forward with the three lots. All right. Any questions for the petitioner? [cough]

No. Mr. Hollis, are you [clears throat] um are you already have plans to build the homes? Are your children already making those plans or are you just getting ready for that? Getting ready for it. One of my my oldest son, he's uh 29, so he's actually looking to purchase. He's looking at homes at this point. My other two are in in college right now. So preparing for the future. Yeah. Prepare for it. Well, again, at the time I was approached that they were selling the property. I didn't want someone else buying it, so I went ahead and purchased it for my kids. Anything else? No. All right. Sounds good. Thank you. Thanks.

We have anybody here this evening would like to speak in opposition to this petition? Just one. Yep. Come on up. [clears throat] raise your hand. Do you swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Say your name and spell your last name. My name is Rosina Mets. M TZ. Pull the microphone up a little closer for you. Thank you. Is that better? Yeah. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for letting me speak tonight. Um I just want to first acknowledge that um I do not know Mr. Hollis and so I have no ill feelings or anything toward him. However, I do actually my husband um myself and our four children own property pretty much directly um our northwest corner is pretty much directly across from the corner uh the southeast corner of his property. [snorts] Um when we moved out to that property that we own um it was to get away from residential um and have a little more peace and quiet um and just to be in a more agricultural rural rural area. I noticed that Mr. Hollis did purchase um a property of approximately 15 acres which has a pretty long driveway off of 40 um that looks like it will be very private. And as someone who moved out there to kind of be private, it's um not my desire to see a subdivision, whether it be a minor or a major, across the street. Um so my suggestion would be not to reszone it as rural residential. Um I also want to bring up the fact that that area of 40 is at the top of a hill coming out of Charlottesville. um you cannot see above that hill once you get on that once you get through Charlottesville speed limit does go back up to 60 miles per hour and at that point you cannot see above that hill. Currently, he has already put one driveway once you get over the crest of the hill and now requesting to put another driveway within a short distance. And my concern would be public safety as um when there is any kind of traffic in the morning or in the evenings, it's pretty heavy traffic. Most people do not go the speed limit. They typically go over the speed limit. And when 70 has any kind of slowdown or

um accident, we get a lot of traffic off of 70 that comes through 40. Um we've had accidents in my front yard. We've had one in our neighbor's front yard. Um and then if the state were to make 70 a toll road, I would assume that we were going to have more traffic even then on 40. And I my concern also is for safety of people driving west on 40. And that's it. Right. Any questions? No. No questions. You say you're south of 40. Your property is We are south of 40. Correct.

All right. Any more questions? All right. Thank you. Yep. Right. Mr. Hollis, you'd have um actually, do we have any government any elected officials, government officials would like to speak? None. All right. And Mr. Hollis, you'd have some rebuttal period if you'd like to speak in rebuttal to the concerns. [clears throat] five minutes.

Yeah. To address the uh driveway issue, um there is a drive that I put in. It was an actual um farmfield access drive. That sliver you see to the right, that was before I purchased the ground off the Lewis's. Um, if you look at the that L-shaped parcel or piece in the middle, that's where an actual crossing is from 40. So, if this is all approved, I am going to remove this the other drive and move it all to where the crossing is, where the the asphalt crossing. So, there'll only be one drive there uh to address the additional driveway. But the driveway I have now is actual farm access drive. It's not a residential driveway.

Yeah. Um, and as far as the the size of the lots, again, the size that I'm offering is as large or larger than a lot of the lots in that area. There's several minor subs in that are cut out throughout Charlottesville to the east of me. And that was my intent was to make sure we keep the um the aesthetics of Charlottesville looking the same. So we're looking at three homes, you know, for that that 10 acres. Um that's all I have. Okay. Right. Any questions?

All right. Sounds good. All right. Any discussion or additional questions for the staff? There are no conditions in this packet as recommended from staff. Nope. But we can discuss any amount of those that you would like. Maybe we could look at a condition to uh adhere to this uh proposed plat that's presented this evening. Find the driveways. Mhm.

And the driveway location. Always ready for an motion. Yeah. Uh motion for a favorable recommendation. Actually, before I do that, sure. You want to come back up real quick.

Talking about a couple of conditions um for approval. if there's a favorable approval. One would be that you combine the driveways as as you testified and the other was that you would um lay it out in substantial conformance with the layout presented. Um so it would look like this. Uh oh yeah. Yeah, that's my intent. Yes. Um as far as the driveway, that is an end dot question, but that is my full intent because right now I have to actually drive further east and do a [clears throat] U-turn, which is extremely unsafe. So that's that was the purpose of this uh L-shape. So I actually had a crossing um from the eastbound side. We we see them around here often. So um we could say subject to INDOT approval then in in the condition. Yes.

Okay. All right. Very good. You also have an entrance off of Granderson. Is that correct? Yeah. Granison Road was the original entrance when I purchased the first 12 acres um about four years ago, I believe. Um, but that's that's again that's just an easement. Um, farm access at this point. I don't have any buildings or I don't have a house back there at this point. All right. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Off you go.

Approach uh a motion for favorable uh recommendation with two conditions. One, that subject to INDOT approval, the driveways be combined um per the testimony, and two, that the um layout be in substantial conformance with the plans presented this evening. Second. All right, it's been moved and seconded to offer a favorable recommendation to the board of commissioners with the two conditions as stated. Uh when you're ready, Dennis, you can call the role, please. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Six approved for a favorable recommendation. Thank you for your time.

All right. Oddly enough, that concludes our hearing items for this evening. We'll move on to our other business. [cough] Okay. Next up is um recommendation on the UDO light proposal from HWC Engineering. A draft contract was submitted. I've also submitted the revised proposal. It's printed out and included in your packets. The recommended fee is included as well as a revised basic scope of services. And what I'm looking for here tonight is a recommendation hopefully favorable to take this to the board of commissioners and hopefully get a sign off on it. So the main change of what we saw before I didn't I don't have the previous one with me but um well there really wasn't there really wasn't much of a change other than it just the fee schedule uh further sort of clarifies what we're doing which is that we're simply putting our current ordinance and subdivision control into a new format with zero changes at all. There was some confusion that they were going to make some recommendations. We had a couple things that maybe we were going to try and change as a part of that, but

we're just going to be just [cough] verbatim verbatim. And then that way we'll have a document that when we do start to make the changes, uh, it's easy to have a sideby-side comparison from the old to the new. And hopefully we'll start with that rapidly once this is done. Um, council reviewed the contract form yet. It has not been reviewed. Greg Morlac is going to review it from understand. Okay. So, um, and the insurance requirements of well as well have been vetted or you'll vet at those.

All of those will be vetted too and the county attorney will also look at that. Commissioners do that. Yeah. Okay. So, anything that we would any action we would take would would exclude approval of the contract. It would just be subject to to Yeah. in the scope of services only. Yeah. So, we could clarify that in our motion. It would be a favorable recommendation to the board of commissioners subject to um legal review and insurance. Yeah. [clears throat] So, moved. [laughter] Haven't made a motion in a long time. That was great. Do I have a second? forgot how good your res.

All right. It's been moved and seconded to send this current proposal for the UDO light reformatting project to the board of commissioners with a favorable recommendation subject to their legal review and insurance requirements. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Same sign. Unanimous. Thank you. That's been a long time coming. So moving moving forward. So So all right. Okay. Item number two is our um flat committee appointment.

So, we're looking for a nomination.

Yeah. So, we can do a couple things. Uh everybody has, I assume, seen the two we we thought we had three. We ended up with two people that did submit uh letters of intent and letters of interest as um requested. Uh those were sent around electronically for your review. Um we had two two candidates um Todd Hitchcock, I believe Dr. Todd Hitchcock, um superintendent of Shelby Eastern Schools, and then we had Mr. Bill Bolander, who um is a familiar name that had served on the Hancock County Council for a long time and served on the plan commission for a long time. Both were interested in the position. Um I did contact uh some of the absent folks today. Byron, who sits on the plaque committee, um I think was feeling favorable towards Mr. Hitchcock's letter, if that has any um weight for y'all. But we could do a couple things. We could we could all vote for who we want or we could um take a nom take a nomination and vote on the nomination. And I think you had asked to recuse because you had a or do you want to participate in the vote?

Um I will recuse. I routed one of the applicants and so might be appropriate for me to that's fine. Optics. Do we need five yeses? We would need five yeses. Yeah. So that's why if you want to do Yeah. Do we have to do it? Because here's the thing. I'm voting yes for both of them. I I like them both. They're fine. Um if you sat here and said, "Pick a name." We're not going to be able to do it. There's only five of us, right? Yeah. Well, would I mean I guess I mean we could continue to next month in hopes of having a full board if if you would uh rather do that. Well, we could try a vote, but yeah, we just rarely have multiple candidates for these things, so that's what's kind of cumbersome. [laughter] So, and they're both good candidates.

Yeah, they're both very good. Yeah. I have a question for Kayla. Is there a full agenda or anything on the plat committee coming up anytime soon? It's we typically have anywhere between one and five items on the plat committee agenda every month. Um so it's steady. Um we usually we have the remaining four or at least three members present. We're lucky to have good attendance. Y

yeah. So, I would say if somebody wants to feel strongly about one of the candidates and would like to make a motion to appoint that person, we could do that or we could have a motion to continue. If you want to hope for a full board next month because I agree, we we can't [clears throat] just write down names. We'll we'll miss I'm sure. So, [laughter] with only five people personally to wait. Fine. All right. I motion to continue the item until the um next month. Okay. Second. All right. It's been moved and continued to move the plat committee appointment to next month with a so we have more attendance for that vote. All those in favor signify by saying I.

I opposed. Same sign. Thank you. All abstain. One abstained. Five approved. One abstained. Okay. Item number three is the data center land use study committee formation. Do you have much to say about that? We have we have three people absent. All three of those will be on the committee. [laughter]

All right. So, Dennis and I have prepared some documents for you in your folders. Dennis has provided a policy summary um that has some proposals about [clears throat] where to go from here once a committee is formed. Um I have uh put together a little summary um that shows the definitions that um are close to a modern-day data center in our ordinance um and how it is currently shown in our land use matrix um as well as comparison to a similar ordinance um as far as how we might think about treating this which is our largecale solar ordinance which requires establishment of an overlay district which must be approved by the board of commissioners in order to um have a project move forward. So even if a resoning isn't required, establishment of this overlay over the project site is required by the board of commissioners. So it doesn't route it to the BCA as a special exception use, but rather to uh our county executives. Um so uh I've highlighted the um read through that and it'll be helpful. Um we've also found um Lake County adopted an ordinance amendment um that includes a definition for data center and a lot of a modern definition and also um just u some ordinance uh framework for how to deal with modern-day data centers. Um, so, uh, definitely a good example to kind of understand how our ordinance might look, some of the language that could be used, um, some of the things that they thought about, um, as they were forming their ordinance. Um, certainly we could reach out to them even and see, uh, what went into it, where they hit some roadblocks and things they do differently, things they really thought were cool in this

ordinance. Of course, one of the items that was um mentioned in uh at a recent board of commissioners meeting and also in uh Dennis's recommendations is a moratorum. That is an option to hit pause uh right away. Um typically a timeline should be attached to moratoriums. Um, one year is a common uh common length of time for for these things uh to be put in place, but I leave that up to you guys and to legal to talk about more. Um, but a good place to start might be establishing a committee um for discussion of uh data centers.

Will we have any members of the public on that committee? Uh, it is Rhonda. Do you have any any help with this? Yes.

So um 3674407 the duties and powers of advisory citizens committee. So each plan commission may establish an advisory committee of citizens interested in problems of planning and zoning. In its resolution establishing such a committee, the commission shall specify the terms of its members and its purposes. Each advisory committee shall one study the subject and problems specified by the commission and recommend to the commission additional problems in need of study. Two, advise the commission concerning how the subject and problems relate particularly to different areas and groups in the community. And three, if invited by the commission to do so, sit with and participate without the right to vote in the deliberations of the commission which subjects of mutual concern are discussed. committee shall report only to the commission and shall make inquiries and reports only on the subject and problems spec spec specified by the commission's resolution establishing the committee. So, in a sense, um you need to if you're going to establish an advisory committee such as what we're maybe talking about, um you would need to do it by resolution. But at least that gives us some time to discuss how you'd want to put that group together and then we could prepare a draft resolution for next meeting. And it that's different than when we form a committee of plan commission members to study a topic or is it the same?

Um this would be the same because this is a com committee only to make advisory recommendations. This is not a committee that's you're going to delegate powers to as far as holding public hearings and making decisions. But but we with we we wouldn't have to have a resolution to create a committee of say uh would be four plan commission members to discuss the topic with the staff like a committee just of your own people. Yeah. Um I'm not even sure that would really be a committee per se. It could be a formalized committee

and It would probably be probably you would want to have that subject to um notice and open door and if it was held in this room it would need to be also um web constrained. So the formal advisory committee that would give us the opportunity to bring to seek out and bring some experts or some wellstudied people into a committee to advise the plan commission to further advise the board of commissioners. Okay. I would also give the

how do we find those people? Uh I might have a a room full of we got them [laughter] all here. They're all here. Sometimes we have um big topics come up like um sidewalks or like UDO. And so has there been anybody or any uh institution that has offered to host some of that on this topic? That's usually the first question to facilitate those conversations. facilitate sorry to facilitate conversations not um specific to say a certain project

like we've done with if not that's okay that's usually the first line of questioning if who who's kind of raised their hand and then no one has then that settles that piece then how did we convene the UDO contributions the UDO committee you mean the group that attended the interview just recently. No, the original one. Ah, that was

set up in that corner over there. technical group um that was chosen by um myself and uh other staff mainly it was the technical advisory committee actually um along with some members of this board and yeah other I just sometimes it's helpful to look at how are we patterned these types of decisions in the past um to see if those have worked or not all right everybody can stop texting me they won't on a committee. [laughter]

So, so the to facilitate a committee like that I think what so what would be the process here? We would we would advertise for interested people just like we did on this plaque committee and we would get a we would develop a list. I I think I have an answer to um Lacy's question to locally. Um Leah Letterman of Save Hancock County I would say has been a voice that has been present publicly. Um and that has been a platform I think where a lot of people have met to discuss this and probably how a lot of the folks here in attendance tonight came to be here. So if you're looking for a platform, it might be that Facebook page honestly where people are learning a lot. I don't know that we want to conduct government business on the Facebook page though, even though I respect what they're doing out there very much.

Um [clears throat] I think a formalized committee uh and you know really the way things are changing in the future, we up against other things other than just data centers that this focus group, focus committee could engage in. [clears throat] Um having people at some plan commission members er and a council person or something that willing to spend the time to search this.

I guess to Lacy's point though, like an an example I think that comes to mind is when we after we did the comp plan, a a group was formed for facilitation of that, I guess, and it's hosted and managed by uh the community foundation. So I think what you're asking for is there a group like that that would host facilitate. Okay. You're talking about that kind of thing lead it essentially or is that on us to do? Is it on the planning staff to to lead that committee? I think Mike that that should be the responsibility of this not [clears throat] an outside source.

I agreed. Yeah. So I think there would need to be one or two people from this board that would be leading that committee I think and scheduling it and meeting it and all that. Okay. Typically then you would have a matrix of um roles um that would be appropriate voices representing the different interests and the committee would be under obligation to collect that that feedback and to maybe negotiate at some of those details at that recommendation level um if if possible. Um and then that if you're looking for applications it would be maybe matrixed or role based.

Yeah. I mean there's certain things. I mean there's there's land use, there's utilities, all the different utilities. There's um economic development.

Economic development. Yeah. There's all the different the pieces. So yeah, we would we would need to put that together and fill and then fill each role with a person. Yeah. And what we learned from the UDO is you can have too many people as well. So, we'd have to be careful with how many we would would put on a committee like that. Um, and then uh and then an agenda I think of what what we're wanting that committee to to look at. Um, uh, are we wanting the committee to advise on moratorum as well? Because that's are we are is that something we should consider? Is this something that we're being pushed on right now?

We could consider that part of the task for the committee to advise on that. Okay. Everything just goes to the recommendation then. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's certain things, you know, that I've read a lot about it and I it's kind of a it's a struggle really and it's you know, and I'm wondering if the if the question and the the issue here is a data center because I can't find a good definition of a data center. They're um Yeah, they're evolving constantly.

They are they're evolving so quickly that they're going to evolve faster than zoning ordinances can keep up with, I think, because they they changed their technology. It's just how how water usage has started to slowly become a different issue with them. But it seemed to me that the the the one thing that's consistent and the thing that's drawing the concern of communities is the utility impact, the the resources impact. So I'm wondering if that's our issue at hand is any kind of a project that has a significant utility impact on our community whether it's electric, water, gas or anything like that needs to be something that comes to the plan commission and ultimately the board of commissioners in some way. And I'm not sure that we have a framework to allow something like that to happen now. But that would be an agenda item I think to discuss. It may not be defining data center different you know there's different types of data centers you know and some of them are are smallcale data centers that are built to serve a single business you know so those have almost zero impact they fit nicely into an industrial zone hypers scale which also doesn't have a good definition I found three or four different definitions of hypers scale um those are the ones that have heavy resource impacts and so we have I mean, what's a heavy resource impact to Hancock County is another question. You know, what what's what's an amount of electric usage or an amount of water usage that is considered a concerning impact. So, those are some of the questions that popped into my head as I was reading through all of this stuff.

[clears throat] implementing an overlay will certainly be as commissioners at this point if it is zoned or and it's just a special exception. Correct. For a data center, it's permitted permitted use and it doesn't even if they're not looking for special treatment there, there's no reason for them to come in front of the board of commissioners and they're going to do But if we have the overlay, it will require them to come in front of the uh board of commissioners. And that's a surefire way that we can protect ourselves and our community

in a way that provides the appropriate due process that anybody sitting at this table would want. I we sit on the BCA and um perhaps that's not the forum or the stage for these types of discussions for a lot of reasons. Mhm. Um, is it is it is it the appropriate due process? And that's really kind of what we're getting down to in some of these

questions. Yeah. Rhonda and I discussed uh briefly earlier today um that perhaps the overlay district for these type of uses um for something like say a large scale solar farm and a data center um should be less specific to a particular use. Um something like a a special use overlay that um

could be much more u based on uh hey this is a use that needs to go to the county the county commissioners more or less just route it to the county commissioners and have some more um general language about the use and save the use specific language for the development standards chapter where once it's been decided hey do we or do we not want this use in in our community, then turn it back over to the planning department, the technical committee, and let's let let us hash out the details on does this conform with the zoning ordinance, the subdivision control ordinance, the drainage plan, the health department stuff, all of that. Um, as part of that process once it's been looked at by the commissioners then. So any we could have a number of uses then and who knows what's to come or what even now is in our ordinance that might really belong in a use category like that that if we say hey establishment of this special use overlay is required in order for this to move forward. And that way a lot more of these uses could get routed to the board of commissioners um in the same um using the same overlay district versus [clears throat] many different little overlay districts that we might have to form over time. want to specify the language we're using. Use is just a known term here. Uh but what we're really talking about is consumption. It's utilities is it's the consumption piece that's the differentiator which allows us to have a different conversation if we're going to be defining it differently. It it's just a different trigger that puts us into kind of a different pathway. Just something we might want to think through. Yeah, I that's a really intriguing idea. So, could a special use category be at the discretion of the planning director? So, if a project came in and it didn't fit perfectly into a category or you felt that it had some

sort of extraneous condition associated with it, could you place it in special use and then that pushes it through a different process?

I would feel a little bit uncomfortable with all of that resting on my shoulders. Okay. Typically we have the use matrix so we can say pretty black and white like single family home is permitted in these zoning districts and submit the you know application and let's let's do this but the uses um I think it would be still helpful to have um it listed in our use matrix that hey here are these you know maybe it's a good portion of these communications utilities uses or certain industrial district uh uses like um landfills things like that that get controversial and have been um in front of the board of commissioners rather than the BZA.

Okay. So, we have a list of uses that were special use that require this overlay district to be established, but once that is established, they're permitted uses in those districts. Okay. Okay. So a next step would be to try to put together a formation of what what this committee would look like, what the various roles needed to be filled would would be. Is that something that we want to ask Kayla to draft and bring back to us for next month? What were the commissioners envisioning when they made this request?

I think we were [clears throat] uh I was envisioning I can't speak for Bill or Barry, but I was envisioning plan commission, maybe one from the BZA, then couple of citiz [clears throat] I I of the council view. No, but from my view, um I mean, yeah, you want people that are pro um like people that are union. I mean, I know somebody in this room that's very pro union. Uh I think would be a good choice. And then I think somebody that uh is has been against it a lot. Um and probably got the whole process started. Uh I think that person probably be good. There's probably some other people in the public which understands utilities. um you know like somebody from Ninstar or a different company um and um obviously in terms of the people that are commissioners council and these people you know plan commission I I think I'd want to see somebody that has at least multiple people that have actually been and toured what happened in Ohio or been to Virginia and other states and seen the results and and because a lot of things are spread around like the noise I mean when we were there in Ohio unless you the generators are turned on once a month you don't hear the noise really. And uh and it's kind of neat how now they're using closed loop systems with water and they don't they're not you know according to them they're not contaminating the water as much

right and then also have their own energy. Yeah. But the problem is the energy that it's unbelievable the amount of energy used and so an expert in that area would probably be beneficial. [snorts]

All right. So we might have just created our list. I had wrote down two plan commission members, one BZA member, two citizens. I'm not sure how they're selected, one commissioner, one council member, maybe two people from the utilities and economic development, and two people from possibly agriculture, industrial industries. uh the the pros and cons I don't think is that is that from the citizenry is that I think that was the only thing that was missing is that how you would categorize the the citizens

yeah I guess I only had two we probably wanted but that's what the other citizens the other citizens should be people in utilities hopefully that live in this area right well yeah you'd want them all in this in this area citizens too. It's just people with specific expertise like okay, you could have one that understands what type of jobs like a union person understand the jobs they're coming that'd be where most of the because most of the jobs once you build it there's not as many jobs like 40 to 50. Most of the jobs is when you build it most of the high paying jobs are there. Okay. So,

so we would have one, two, three, looks like we would have four four people from boards, commissions [clears throat] elected, etc. And then maybe we'd have six residents and we would have some we'd want to get those people from, you know, residential area, utility, economic development, egg, industry, all that. So the search would be to to request some letters of interest, I suppose, with some qualifications of those people, I suppose. And we have, you know, I know there's someone in the audience it analyst and has, you know, worked with the data before.

Okay. Okay. How many are we up to? Do I have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight? I have 11. So have 11. Mhm. Well, that number is good if you're going to have a vote of some sort, but we can't vote. Well, well, I mean to push it on to us with the planning commission and then the planning commission would then review it and make a decision if they're going to push it on to go to the planning commission first or would come to commissioners first and then back to the planning commission. Planning commission first I think right

depends on what the end product would be. So the resolution would come from this and then the recommendation if the recommendation is coupled into an ordinance rather I mean we just follow the normal process because we would need to this in some sort of a document. Oh thank you um in sort of a a format that can be decided upon within our normal course. Yeah. resolution, it would be required to form the subcommittee and then the subcommittee could present recommendations to this board who would then make a recommendation to the board of commissioners.

You could or wouldn't have to. I mean, it's it's just you're appointing this advisory committee to inform plan commission and any way that you want to. You could you could take it on and you could say we would like to draft an ordinance that we would like the board of commissioners to adopt based on feedback that we've gotten from our advisory committee. Got a lot of options after that.

Just there's a couple of governance items maybe giving direction to the decision-m also minutes from the meetings. Um it's just so helpful from the planning commission. I mean not participating these types of meetings sitting here. Um there's just some governance items where it's helpful to give that direction not only agenda but how the meetings are run and recorded so that we might have the benefit of those conversations. And I don't even know if you would need to give direction to go to a vote because if it is split that's important to know as well. Mhm. Well, and depending on who is selected, I mean, we've got we wouldn't necessarily end up have have to end up with 11 because we've got PC members, com commissioners, council members, BCA members that could pull double duty in that representation there. And I think the commissioner uh member would probably be there more so as a listener I think and to offer any thoughts and guidance on the process probably probably likewise with the council member I would say just a more of an advisory role to the committee I would say. So,

what what's the time frame that you would want this committee to is it is it 6 months or how long would you give them to report back? Well, there's a lot of things on the table right now. I mean, there's a moratorum that's on the table. Well, I think we swifter than slower it as we as we can, you know.

Yeah. Um would it be reasonable to try and compile a list of uh members and have that prepared uh to be approved next month? I think we could probably do that. And then from there, um, I would say that that committee probably needs to meet two to three times before they would be comfortable making a recommendation. So, we're probably looking at a three-month process. Maybe sound reasonable. Sounds more reasonable. Two to three times, I think. So, so April and then they could meet May, June, July, come back with a with some sort of direction or a presentation.

August be appropriate if we're forming this based upon a resolution. Did I hear that right? That we have to have a resolution for formation that perhaps we incorporate a um three-month moratorum um just so we're not caught in the midst of something. So the resolution would recommend a pause just for the shortest amount of time frame. Then while the committee makes those decisions, perhaps we would need to prioritize those items that need to get done as minimum viable product within that first three months. option.

I think in order to put in a mortorium, that would have to be done by an ordinance. And so you'd have to make have that draft ordinance and then um take it to the commissioners and let them vote on it. Even if it was only a 3month, but by the time we're working through things, it takes a while to even get something, you know, to be ready to be on the agenda to come before you. We're probably not looking at anything that fast anyway. Maybe maybe you can come to us with a recommendation of how to handle matters during the pendency of this decision body or this this recommendation body.

Okay. might be do moratoriums go through the plan commission or do they are they handled solely by the commissioners? Well, it I think it would come through the plan commission because it'd be a planning and zoning matter. Okay. Okay. By the time we got that drafted, voted on it, we'd be Yeah. two months in already. Yeah. So, we'd be well on our way. we'll get the list of members going and and [clears throat] move forward that way.

So, what I'm hearing is next month um to have a resolution prepared. We'll work on that based on the guidance you've given us tonight and get that circulated and um if you want to direct staff to u start opening up for interested parties and get a list of interested people that would want to serve based on the 11 people that you talked about this evening. Yeah. And I don't know how we would best advertise that. I mean, you could be inundated with um interested folks, I think. Um

the newspaper is probably to do a good job with an article and even if not chosen to be um on the committee, it's still going to be open to the public. So, there's opportunity for a lot of presentations and data to be received. Well, I mean, it kind of sounds like a few people here have some thoughts on some members, so you could make some recommendations of of people. I think um could we make an announcement like now that if anybody's interested to email me?

And you might want to state what the criteria is that you're looking for. I mean, we have those generalized spots, but if you're Okay. To maybe have them present their qualifications. [clears throat] Yeah, we definitely need the qualifications because that's the that's the key is I think what we really need are some people that have some real expertise in some of these discussion items of the utility resource allocations and all that stuff. So, we'd probably want to request their bios, the letter of interest,

and then we then we can send a note to the board of commissioners and the council to select a person. Um, the plan commission and the BCA can can also select. Need a couple people from the plan commission. guys all ready to volunteer? Well, since we got people absent, we can send an email around and see who's interested in that. Make sure we have somebody selected and ready to go. Okay. [clears throat] So, you think you got what you need to do?

I do. So, if there's anybody here that would like to serve on this committee and has some expertise in utilities, data centers, IT, um, affected industries, please email Kayla with your interest. How many people came tonight to talk about data centers? All right. [snorts] Does anybody want to say something publicly um, this evening to Hang on a second. Put your hands up again. [laughter] One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. I'm counting about 10. You guys good to hear from the public this evening on this topic? I'm gonna go get a drink.

All right. Well, we'll recess for five minutes and then we'll come back and we'll we'll we'll do that. So, and did you want to set a time? Like [clears throat] two minutes a person probably. I got way too far.

All right, we're going to go ahead and come back into uh session here for our other business item number three. Gateway. Can everybody hear us? Okay. Yeah. Can hear hear? Good. Hear good. Okay.

Speak into your microphones. Yeah, sometimes you got to get Yeah, you got to get kind of close to them. So, okay. I had um I had about 10 people I counted. So, we'll go with that for now. And we're going to offer everybody that would like to speak two minutes so that we don't drag on too far into the evening. And what we typically do in a case like this is I just ask you if you if somebody already says what you were planning to say, maybe just wave your time and concat it to somebody else so we're not all happen to hear the same thing over and over again. unless you've got a really cool new spin on a different topic that's already been talked about. So, with that, um, I'll [snorts] start to the left. Was who on the left wanted to speak this evening? All right, come on up. Ma'am,

we won't swear in, I don't think, but we would like for you to state your name uh and spell your last name so that uh Dennis can get some everybody recorded for the minutes.

My name is Rebecca Chapman. C H A P M A N and I have been to several meetings about the data centers and completely oppose it. Though I'm not against the union at all. I know these guys are looking for work. My question is is how are we going to protect the citizens as well as these union workers? Because it has been known up in Michigan City where the local unions were blacked out. their bids were not accepted and they brought in people from Texas to do special projects on the Google data center up there. So my concern is how are we going to protect not only our local workers as well as our citizens? Mr. Uh, Waldridge, you had mentioned something in passing about the closed loop. That water still needs to be purged somewhere. And as far as I know, not one water facility can handle the coolants and all the petroleum and everything else that goes through that system to where it's even suitable for gray water. So, that water's got to go somewhere. We got to figure out where it's going to be treated or dumped where it's not going to impact our water, our aquafers, because we are a rural community and a lot of our citizens are on wells. I don't want my well to not be able to be used. Utility is another thing. Our prices are going up astronomically every 3 or 4 months. That's got to be brought under control and protect us from that. Make those

data centers come in and pay their fair share of the infrastructure and the usage that they are going to be doing. There are so many things that this committee will not only be able to help with, and I understand why you're kind of postposing the moratorum, but the moratorium really needs to be looked at so we can get this all worked out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Come on up.

Good evening. My name is John Hooker. H O K E R. Hi, I'm the president and executive director for the Central Indiana Building Trades Council representing over 35,000 men and women here in central Indiana, almost 2,000 men and women here in Hancock County who live and reside here. Um, obviously we support projects like this. Uh, what we know about data centers, and I think it's been alluded to here, is that they're not they're not normal construction jobs. you know, for a a normal job for us, a six-month job would be a really good time. These in multi-phases and and so much technical work takes they're calling these permanent construction jobs. Um, we know I'm not here to carry the water for hyperscale developers or Google or Meta or anybody else. What I'm here to tell you is that these are good jobs for our community. I also happen to be a school board member in New Palestine. Um what I know is that we're all facing financial crunches as governing bodies and um putting a moratorium on anything construction development related I think is not the proper way to govern just my two cents. But uh for me and my members I I think I think supporting these projects like this and moving forward with proper and and right uh adjustments as you guys see fit. But I think uh staying away from a moratorum would be best for us.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any more on the left? Sliding across the aisle. Any hands in the middle? Okay, we'll take the lady in the front first. Yep. My name is Julie Robertson. R O B E R T S O N.

You might need to pull that microphone down a little bit. There you go. Thank you. And I am if I repeat stuff because I was having a hard time hearing. So, um I think the the biggest thing that I'm concerned about, well, a couple things is these big companies that make billions of dollars should pay their way and pass it on to their customers, not the taxpayers. So, abatements, in my opinion, should go to the farmers so we don't lose farmland. That's that's one thing. And then the other is that I think AI is a is a wonderful tool out there, but it's also a dangerous one right now and we need to slow down and make sure the environment is protected, people are protected, and how they're using it is even protected. I mean know are we going to be responsible for bringing in these things and then find out in 5 10 years that somehow it's being detrimental in how our whole society runs you can't pull that back later and and I think that's what a lot of people are are afraid of is once you let all this stuff go out there and then find out oh man we shouldn't have done that it's too late then I think we need to slow down I think that um there needs to be some looking into the kind regulations. How do we protect ourselves from things that we don't know are going to happen in 5 10 years when it's too late to tell them, you know, wish we'd have thought of this. You guys need to blah blah blah blah blah. You know, that's why we need to slow it down and figure out a lot more about this. It's obvious that it's not it is not been totally why are they being so secretive with NDAs? To me, I was always told if you can't say something out loud, if you're trying to keep it a secret, chances are it's cuz

it's bad. You're, you know, you don't want people to know what's going on. Your time is up. Otherwise, you would be open. These companies would be open. And I don't think our government time is up should allow it. You should say you don't you want to come in here, you've got to be open or go by. We don't need you here. I don't think your time is up. Have to do this so fast. Okay. All right. Thank you for your time. All right. Come on up middle. Was there a hand in the very back too? No. Okay.

Hi, Julie Sadam. That's S E D A M. Uh, you heard me before and a lot of people have already said some of the things that I would agree with. Um, one thing I'm very concerned about is the use of an NDA or a non-disclosure agreement. I would request that we avoid that. And any company that comes to us and asks for an NDA, we should say no thank you. Um, I should mention to you I'm retired IT, multiple years of data center management and migrations. uh served in both project manager and I'm a PMP and a CBA which is a certified business analyst professional. So I actually have real life experience in dealing with some of these things and like someone else mentioned the speed of technology in the development the things that are going on now that we would we don't even know about we don't even know what Meta Microsoft Google is developing that would again have uses or um require more data than what we do today. But I will tell you this as consumers a lot of this is force-fed to us. We didn't ask to have a sweeper that has AI capabilities but we got one. So, that's the kind of things we need to be aware of as we make um as we move forward. And then also one more thing, and I haven't seen it, but I'd like to see more about water usage. I'd like to see the reports. There is a water reporting mechanism in any of these areas that have data centers. They're supposed to have that. And a lot of times I'm finding that the data is two or three years old. And that's really about it for me. So, thank you so much for the time.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Come on up in the back there. Yeah. Thank you. It's Monica Spiker, SP I ke agree with everything everyone said, but I have researched a bit on the data centers on the millions upon millions of gallons of water that they use, not to mention the electricity, not to mention what they do with the water that they use. I've heard about uh noise pollution and not just the noise actually being able to fill it and then them taking up hundreds of acres of our farmland which is already as everybody that lives around here knows it's being sold off for housing additions. So now we're going to have it sold off for data centers. It's just I'm completely opposed to any data center.

Thank you. Thanks for coming up very back green hat. [snorts] [clears throat]

My name is Rex Spiker. Uh, SPI K. Um, I would say on the other hand, you know, as far as we need to look more towards growth. These are going to be these centers are going to be for our children. If not for the people and our children, then what are they for? I understand some of the se secrets because you're handling personal information, okay? So, they can't give out people's personal information and stuff, but our children, they're going to be using computers their whole lives. If we don't get with the future, you're going to be left in the past. And one thing I do know, in order for us to have progress, you have to build. There is no way around it. Your infrastructure is going to be have to be fixed. Your water filtration's going to have to be fixed. Everything that you're talking about is going to have to be addressed in the future. Anyways, the data center is going to help you do that. They have data centers that are manufacturing new revolutionizing new drugs. Okay? It's your future. That's all I have to say. You know, they're it's your future. So,

thank you. Thank you. Well, they can solve it with the data center. They can use the data to solve the problem, right? All right. I mean, okay. Uh, we'll take the We'll start in the back and come forward. So, there's an orange shirt back there. Come on up.

Hi, my name is Samuel Gallion. Last name is G L Yan. I live in Hancock County up in Fort Phil right behind that subway. I build these for a living. I maintain them. I construct them. I do everything in between. I also go to the third best electrical training school in the country and that's here in Indianapolis and they train us to build these. So, there's a lot of misnomers that go with these data centers. For example, if they say they consume or they use 2 million gallons a day, that doesn't tell us, you know, if it's use recycled water or if it's water they pull directly from an aquifer or from the utility. A lot of times they use the recycled water multiple times and that's added towards this two million. But the myths no more with you see in headlines is that oh it's burning two million gallons. No, it's not. A lot of times they're only burning about 9 thou 9 9,000 gallons of water because of evaporation. It's the same kind of cooling system your car has. It's closed loop. So and a lot of these developers have money that you you know that they' be willing to spend on our utilities. They'd be spending on our communities. All you have to do is ask. Henry County just passed one. They agreed to any water limit that the county sets on them. They upgraded the utility for the entire county with $15 million. They produced their own they produce their own power plus more to supply the communities ahead of them. They address everything. They don't even they're not even drilling into a well or an aquifer. They agree to, like I said, whatever the utility set for them, any number. So, there's just a lot of potential with these. Um, and not all of them are for AI. any if anyone watches Netflix or any type of streaming service that requires a data center. If you've watched YouTube, Rumble, Twitter, which is now X, um Facebook, Instagram, they all require data centers and they are getting used more and more every single day. So that's all I've got to say. Thank you.

Can can I ask you a question? Of course you can. Um is there a scale in your experience at which these things become different than a typical industrial development?

Sure. So the first data center I ever worked on was a military contract. Um I can't say who because my NDA is not over yet but you know give it another three years. Um they a lot of times they have battery backups. So and they'll have extra power generation on site like with a diesel Cummins massive engine to power this facilities. they have a lot of backup to the backup to the backup and that goes with how secure they want this data to be. If it's worth, you know, if they lose power, is it worth that the data is lost or does it need to be protected at all costs? And that amount of um durability with protecting that data determines the scale at which this data center requires for its construction. Okay. Interesting. All right. Thank you.

I have a question as long as we're asking questions.

Yeah. What tell me about the noise pollution. So the noise pollution comes from older data centers. The first uh kind of data center that was server tech that had actual microprocessor and server technology was back in the '90s with the dotcom era and they used fan cooling. Now that is again from the '90s. So it's well over 30-y old technology. Now we have liquid cooled um systems that operate just like your car does. The car doesn't just use a fan. Of course, it has a radiator and a radiator fan, but we have progressed in the last three decades with the cooling systems that, you know, we don't need to have those noise problems anymore. And, you know, these companies that are building them have more than enough money to upgrade these systems and not use primitive 30-year-old technology to cool them. Does that make sense? Thank you.

Thank you. Of course, Sam, right? Sam, [laughter] make make sure you make sure you apply. H Make sure you apply if you have time. [laughter] Thanks. I'm here. I live in Hancock County. easily accessible. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Uh we got two there. I'll take the person in the black shirt first. I wouldn't say yes. And you need to bear you.

Hi everyone. I'm Leah Letterman. L E D E R M. Um thanks for letting me speak and thanks for listening to all of us. I love the points that were brought up in the discussion earlier. for the overlay district. Sounds great. Um, and I agree with what so many people here have said. Uh, my concern is simply about the ability for the county to put in any sort of guard rail to protect themselves. Um, for instance, um, right now there's a precedent for developers to not follow the contracts that have been set up with the county, to not have the correct number of employees that they said they would have um, and to not be living up to these types of expectations and the county has little recourse, little way to punish them, if you will, without punishing themselves. So, I'm curious about how we can deal with that when we're dealing with such a large much larger than a warehouse developer. Um, so I'm curious to see how how that will work out. I mean, [snorts] really what we want to do is just make sure this gets back in the hands of elected officials. Right now, it's easier to put a pool in or a new driveway than it is to put in a data center under the right conditions. if you don't need abatement, if it's already zoned industrial, you're good to go. Um, so that I think that's not hyperbole. I think that's concerning to anyone, even, you know, those who set to Never mind. That one got away from me. Um, [laughter] but I guess that's my number one. I [snorts] want there to be guard rails, rules that we can all live by, binding agreements that they will employ Hancock County residents because that's another one that's not happening. And um these developers seem unable to locate their human resources paperwork because that's just a weird thing. And uh lastly, I'd like to see what kind of

direct and tangible contributions would be made to the surrounding community. Not just in terms of the trickle down or even of the employment, um but would there be community grants they would be giving? Would there be ongoing contributions? All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. We had somebody next to her. Okay. Come on up. I haven't been keeping track. [clears throat] 37.

Thank you. My name is Paul Overhouser. O Ver H AU S E R. Uh I'm an I'm an attorney. I'm retiring and looking to get more involved in uh uh contributing to the local community. I ask you to pull that microphone up a little bit. There you go. Thank you.

I'm not pro data center or anti-data center. Uh but I would observe that uh there have been a handful of data centers that have been approved in Indiana that have led to at least five six lawsuits that I'm aware of filed either by the developers or by citizens that opposing them. And I think it would be beneficial to Hancock County to come up with a set of standards for data centers that is made with the input of the citizens and with the input of developers so that developers know when they come into the county what would be expected of them and the citizens feel like there are some guard rails or that they will be protected. Um, I'd also note that there are, I think, six other counties in Indiana that have implemented uh temporary moratoriums on data centers. I think that would be a good thing for Hancock County to do certainly on a short-term basis while we work through these issues with coming up data center standards. Thank you.

I'll start. Um, yeah, come on up. You Mitchell, come on up. [laughter] my name. Yeah, I'm I just had to use his name. Guy with the beard. Come up.

That's right. Mitchell Kirk. I'm the communications director for the Hancock Economic Development Council. Um just down the the square here at One House Plaza Square. Uh communications director. Like I said, I'm going back to my newswriting roots if that's okay. I wrote something out that I I wanted to um share with you all today. Um but yeah, I just wanted to thank you for the consideration of of creating the the committee um and and reiterate our our encouragement to um shy away uh from a blanket moratorum. These projects represent significant economic opportunity, jobs, tax revenue, and critical infrastructure that support nearly every part of modern life. Um, I think moratoriums can make sense in some counties, especially in communities that don't yet have uh experience or or development framework to properly evaluate projects of this scale. Um, in those cases, I think taking a pause is responsible. Um, but I don't think that's what this situation is. Um, we're very fortunate to have county leadership with real experience in development, infrastructure, and land use. we have the knowledge, the tools and the capacity to evaluate projects on their merits without shutting the door entirely. So instead of a moratorum uh I just wanted to reemphasize our our our thanks and and welcoming uh of the formation of a subcommittee to do the necessary due diligence uh working alongside state level experts who understand energy uh grid impact and economic development. Let's be thoughtful but not fearful. Let's lead with competence uh not hesitation. And uh I guess just also wanted to add emphasize um how much a lot of these things are on all our minds too. I know a lot of people think economic development, oh they're just after the the development and the money, right? But um no, we we um desperately want situations that uh preserve um utility rates for for everyone. And we're very

encouraged by the new technologies and the closed loop systems uh things that lawmakers are doing to to ensure that um just that quick 80% rule is what I was referring to at the end there. So on uh building infrastructure needed for electrical improvements. Thank you for the extra time. Yeah, thank you.

Uh how many I have over here? Just one more. All right, we'll have two. I'll we'll start with him first and then we'll finish with you coming up. Uh, hi everyone. My name is Dakota Coats. That's C O A Tes. Um, I am a current attorney, so I just want to say I'm here in my individual capacity, not for my employer. Um, I just want to mostly speak to the formation of the committee, so not really here to take a stance on the data centers just to offer some uh guidance or suggestions on how that should be done. Uh, Mr. Long, I know you talked about concerns with the definitional basis for a data center. I definitely think a statutory analysis is appropriate. both the state of Indiana and surrounding jurisdictions have engaged in kind of word play around how they want to define data centers. So I think a benchmarking for the committee would be appropriate both for statutory benchmarking the state of Indiana legislation that was considered um in recent cycles as well as ordinances around the state. Um to Mr. Waldridge's point I do think a committee of 11 individuals is appropriate. I don't think you want an even number and a potential gridlock. Um, I would recommend though that the individuals on the committee who are experts be separate from individuals from the comm uh community just so that way you can have no issues with double dipping and folks feel like their voice is fully heard on both sides of the spectrum. Um, Miss Willard, I know you also mentioned uh wanting to have meeting minutes. I would also encourage you to have voting records and attendance records at all of those as well if you're planning on relying on their recommendations. I think knowing who was attending those meetings is very important. Um, I would also say in terms of kind of the overarching goal for the committee, I know you're looking at a three-month turnaround with regards to the recommendation on the moratorum and any other changes that may be needed for resolution purposes. I think an educational component would also be helpful. I think we hear a lot from the community um that the lack of transparency and kind of information surrounding data centers on both sides uh can get muddied at times and so I think engaging with the community on the role that you as elected officials can

play in terms of educating how these deals come to be made educating around what uh governing bodies they may need to go before and around how they're operated I think would be helpful as a a secondary basis for the purpose of that committee. Um I would also say in terms of how it is structured um making sure that it does engage in some form of uh information gathering outside of just the committee members. Yeah. Thank you. That's great. One more. Come on up. [clears throat]

Good evening. My name is Alec Venturino. V E N T U R I N O. And first of all, I would like to I would like to say that a moratorum is absolutely the wrong thing to do. I am in favor of data centers and I believe that as a lot of as a lot of our industry experts have said that they are an excellent investment for the community. In addition, if a committee is created, it's imperative that subject matter experts have a are included prominently in this committee. As unfortunately, there is a lot of talk about the subject of data centers circulating on online social media groups that is almost entirely consisted of emotional knee-jerk reactions that is hyperbolic at best and downright false at worst. Additionally, a lot of the time people forget the places where data centers are most concentrated places like Northern Virginia, Lowen County in in particular among the most prosperous places in the country and home to a lot of the federal workforce and a lot of national leaders. Clearly, if these data centers were so dangerous, that population would not allow it in their own backyard. So, it's important that we listen to the subject matter experts, that we avoid caving to knee-jerk moratorium demands, and we go ahead listen to the subject experts and make sure to not fall behind as these opportunities for investment in our community are presented upon us and give us an excellent way to create jobs and grow our tax base. Additionally, the data centers themselves are individual projects with power code generation,

recirculative cooling and other technologies. Personally, I'm a civil engineer, so I am I'm quite familiar with infrastructure demands and the importance of all that. There's a good a right way to build it. There's a wrong way to build it. So, thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. I think that's it. Um, so we will proceed with our um our committee. um construction in our next next meeting in um April. Thank you all for coming out. It's very encouraging that there's so many people in the county that are this interested and this respectful about their interest. So, thank you very much for everything that you've done this evening. Thank you. Thank you.

And I hope and I hope that anybody that took the time encouraged [clears throat] to come up to speak because you know that's kind of I've done it before. It's kind of a tough thing to do that you guys will consider applying. Yeah. So, thanks. Yeah. Thank you everybody. [clears throat] sex. I know we got to wait a couple minutes here. [laughter] So, do you think that when we have those meetings that that when the committee meets should sir and Gary P [clears throat] be present? We still have two agenda items left. Hang around if you want to talk afterwards. Okay. Building of the data center.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Could everybody please We've got a couple of things we got to finish up here. So, can you take it to the lobby? Everybody please move to the lobby. You're going to have to be a little more forceful. Mike, we're still in session. Please move to the lobby. Speak louder than that mic, man. Please find your way to the exits. Could you take the conversations to the lobby? To have conversations, please move to the lobby.

You guys in the back there, please move out. If you need to have a conversation.

Thank you. All right, that leaves us with items four and five. Item four, fee schedule update. All right. So, you have um an updated fee schedule. I actually printed out a new one because the the version that I emailed you didn't clearly show the comments I had on it. Um so, it should look like this. It should be a front and back form. There you go. Yep. Um all right. So, in red are the changes. Uh this is going to require at least another month of um review with Rhonda. Um, but these are my my recommendations and I'm gonna show you real quick how I came to this conclusion. worksheet that helps us discover what our fees should be or at least how much they are administratively costing us up on the screen now operate. So there we go. Okay. My summary though of and I emailed this this Excel sheet to you. So if you're interested in how Excel sheets kind of come together and to form this kind of thing, please take a look. But in this case, we're really looking at the rates for different sorts of professional expertise that we use at these meetings. the cost of your attendance, of Rhonda's attendance, of m

uh Maria and I's attendance here tonight, as well as the preparation for meetings like this, review of the application, all of those things. We take all of that into account and uh use these hourly rates which is um either the hourly rate we are charged if you're a contractor, the amount we pay you if you're an appointed official um or uh in the case of Maria and me um it is uh our total hourly rate. So this is not only the hourly rate we are paid but that plus and actually that's an averaged one um kind of a planner one planner two rate uh plus our uh benefits cost. So this truly is a billable hour for your planning staff. Think of it that way.

Um anyway if we look over at um and I'll just scroll down real quick here. I'll make this fast. Uh yeah, this is not gonna be fun on this computer. Um so things like a pre-filing meeting would be an hour uh at say planner rate so $71 just for that then you know processing the application another threequarters of an hour technical and staff review the creation of a staff report uh ensuring that there is a sign available there's a cost to that BZA and plan commission attendance time which we do divide by the maximum number of meetings petitions that could be looked at per meeting anyway way. These were all things that went into creating a total cost for each of our petition types, kind of a best guesstimate. Um, based on that information, uh, this information is really where we landed as far as our estimated fee, some notes about it, and where we are right now. Okay. All right. So given all of that uh we've got the um if the form in front of you now the following uh suggested changes minor subdivision change from 350 go up to 490. It has to go to technical committee. Anything that goes to technical committee for site plan review we charge 490. So why would we not charge 490 for a minor subdivision? uh for major subdivisions. I actually got rid of the single family um cutout for that. If it's a if it's a major subdivision, it's a major subdivision. It requires quite a bit of review. Um so that kind of cut out that um and really lesser used 275 cost. Um let's see, a couple typos and those kind of things. Um same thing for resoning, single family. Um, a reasonzoning is also kind of unclear

when we don't really use that. Um, regardless, um, same thing for [clears throat] the non-conforming use and corridor overlay regulation exceptions. Um, I can double check in the ordinance and see why we included those to begin with, but they it doesn't totally make sense to include those here. Uh, we do see a lot of 3:1 depth to width ratio exceptions uh, in the subdivision um, control ordinance. A lot of our of our lots uh especially at plat committee are 3 to one exceptions meaning they're long skinny lots or flag lots. We see that very commonly rather than 400 plus an additional in addition to uh the filing fee. Let's just make it $100 per lot affected and that way it makes it a little bit more um fair I guess. Um once again this is all totally up to your recommendation. um variance fee. Um I'd like to divide that into two uh for residential and then for non-residential. Uh this actually split in half what I came up to be um kind of the suggested uh 650 um across variances as far as cost goes. But if we look at ease of handling and likeliness of needing Rhonda's expertise down the road, um the cost could be divided into non-residential variances bearing the brunt of the cost because they do bear the brunt of administrative cost. Um and then residential variances being a lesser fee. So $400 as a base fee for residential and $800 as a base fee for non-residential. uh special exceptions have already been divided in uh by cost and use type. Uh did a little bit more playing around with this to move say home occupations from a commercial category to a residential special exception category. Um this lowered the price on those um

put it in the same category with accessory dwelling units and temporary structures. I would also note that while it is just a $200 um special exception fee, we oftent times see especially the ADUs and the homox needing variances. So remember those are also now because our ordinance is a little bit outdated for these things having to pay that additional um variance fee um of well this would and actually currently it is $400 plus $55 per additional variance. So, they're kind of getting a double whammy um on those costs or which is one reason I thought it was appropriate to move the home occupations up with residential. Um commercial um otherwise stayed the same. I did add agricultural special exception uses in with commercial because they typically are more commercial in nature if they are a special exception in the a zoning district. Um, and then or use type. Um, let's see, industrial and cell facility. I bumped the fee up to $800 for those as we've seen those take a significant amount of staff time. Um, so that seemed to be fair and help cover those administrative costs. And that's really the the base of all of this is just it's not trying to penalize any [clears throat] particular uses or uh anything like that. that it is simply trying to cover those administrative costs. Um, which is why I thought it was important that you see how we got to where we're looking at on these fees. Um, see, plat extent time extension was mentioned twice on page two, so I just deleted it off of page two. Uh, and then the final thing, um, well, a couple parks and wreck impact fee. I feel like we should add that to the fee schedule just so it's listed um and made clear that we we collect the parks and wreck impact fee at land commission uh desk.

And finally, we need to spell out that I think overall pre-iling meetings are required for all petitions. So, if you were coming in and filing for any of these petitions, you need to sit down and talk to a planner um for an extended period of time. It shouldn't be at 10:55 on filing deadline day. Um, hey, I'm bringing in this minor subdivision and and I want to file it for next month. Um, we should not be getting any surprises on our agendas. So, all right. Uh, that's the fee schedule. Um, can I can I raise because Yes. Sorry.

Something we talked about earlier today. Um, so with recent legislation in House Bill 101, there's going to be a lot of reporting requirements that Kayla will now have to do, mainly about home building and number of when applications are submitted to build a new housing development, whether it's approved or denied. So, I think my recommendation would be to be very careful about accepting an application that is not really put together all the way. Let's say there's no sewer there or something and we accept an application and we have to write down, well, there was an application for 500 homes to be built and then we find out that it's just totally not even possible for it to be built and then we have to reject it. That's going to look bad on our numbers. um to show that we've rejected something with that many homes. I almost feel like there's got to be this first step process like what you're calling maybe the pre-filing um and I don't know if a fee could be collected for that or not. You might give that some thought um because there is some administrative time spent on that. but then when they're ready and ready to go with their application that that is something different and that's how we would count it in that reporting when they got to the point where they're ready to apply. Just something about procedural you might want to think through so that we you know aren't letting applications go forward that are not ripe. A a real life example of that in the last four years is the PUDS that come forward that are only like 10 pages long,

right? And we're like, okay, [clears throat] this is even really an application. This, you know, this so we need something that's complete if they're going to really want to take that. I think that's a real life I don't think I don't know if we've ever had one where someone that was in an area that was no sewer said, "Oh yeah, I want to build 500 homes on I don't know if that's ever happened." Yeah, that might be a bad example, but you know what I It would it's something that PUD is a real example, right? We we declined that because it was like wasn't even pulled it went to Cumberland.

Yeah, I think we've had some PUDS applications that were not ready. They didn't weren't all put together. So, they probably should have been stopped there with some type of pre-filing fee and then like, no, you you've got to put together a more complete application for us to count it as an application. I think that's an interesting point, too, is are we counting the number of rejected lots at the platting phase or at the resoning phase? I don't know that it's that specific on how they want us to do it, but we'll probably have to set our own standard if it doesn't tell us.

Yeah, because if we're doing it at the platting phase, then we could reszone stuff all day long and it wouldn't count. But once we get to that primary plat, we need to be very clear when they're applying for their major subdivision plat that, hey, this is, you know, you're not meeting X, Y, and Z, and this needs to And what about withdrawals? Are we counting withdrawals as denials if they by choice see oh wow what we are doing here isn't going to get passed well we're choosing to withdraw this those would probably be updates to our rules

definitional items given the new legislation and I'm wondering how you would feel about maybe having an additional fee for you know state required reporting but it does is it has almost like a use fee but I don't know if it's penalizing specific projects in a way that could be detrimentally reviewed for us. But something to think about instead of having a a pre it's when we have to do a state filing. It's just like a pass through. Hey, we we have time, we have effort, it's just a fee and might have legal review. It's an additional fee that is um a use-based fee. Something that's another way to get to the same end.

Um I I I had a couple of questions. Um, on the zoning violations, were we making any changes to allow for um a per violation? I'm just going to give the example per boat for what? Uh, zoning violations. Mhm. Um, we're only doing it in notice of penalty. The questions that we've had at the BCA when imposing, is it per violation or is that per notice? So, for example, see, I know what you're saying. Yeah. Is it per 200 votes that are with notice and is every vote 300 or is it the whole thing 300? Uh

that is per notice. So if they fail to comply and we have to send out repeated notices um we can charge them more um as a fine. I would consider maybe a per violation uh because $300 you can some people can skate that. That's a cost of doing business. Cost of doing business. So, it's just something we've run into a couple of times that it would have been nice to have for the ability to have a per violation opportunity for for notice. That's not per day either, is it?

That's what I was just wondering is I know we've done that before where there's a per day violation. Is that after it goes to court or after like what are the details on that?

After Okay. Okay. So, a per day But I do believe that as long as the ordinance does not prevent us from doing that, we have the ability to say per day per that it would be at the discretion of the BCA and the recommendation of the planning um department to make a recommend. We just need more ability to um to impose something meaningful on the violation. Um, one other question. Would a variance in special exception be considered types of petitions? Yes. Okay. Could we strike um encouraged to meet with planning staff director prior to petition submission if we put the pre-filing meetings required for all petitions at the top?

Absolutely. Great. And then do you think there should be a difference in the um plus you know 55 additional maybe the same proretta u 110 on commercial just seems there there should be some matching. We could do that. I'm almost tempted to some sometimes we have trouble with that because as we investigate an a petition sometimes more variances come up. um it would almost be uh up to so many variances. Um would that be something reasonable to talk about?

Well, I think the my my correlary to that my last question is are we properly discouraging multiple variances [clears throat] because it just saddles the BCA with this and this and this and this and this and it's just um are we properly discouraging that through the through and it doesn't have to be through pricing. It can be through ordinance or other process or just decision- making, but it should be I mean if that's our philosophy should be reflected in our fee schedule.

Yeah, I I think that that that last point you made will become I think we have a better place to stand on that once we have a better zoning ordinance in place because right now the number of variances are because our or our zoning ordinance can't handle what some people are wanting to do. So um so I think that's something to probably discourage in your pre-filing meetings, but um I some people might have to live with a little bit for the next year or so. But um is a pre-filing meeting does it have a fee with it? Did I miss that? No, it does. It does not. Could it? Should it?

I suppose that's what we were just talking about a little bit. And I suppose we could even um would you consider that like a almost like a deposit that could be taken out of the overall? I I feel like Don's gonna be very upset about how we collect this at the front desk. Um because it could get complicated um unless we just charge a straight up fee. Um but I I'm a little bit hesitant to do that because I feel like we have a lot of good conversations in these pre-filing meetings.

Um we do try to limit them to about an hour. Um, and uh, I sometimes they occur on teams, sometimes they're phone calls, sometimes they're in person in our office, but it it gets a little bit weird to it feels more friendly like a meet and greet and less like a chance to say and now hand over $50 or something. Good point. Yeah. Okay. Keeps you in the pulse of things. Very beneficial. I've been attending with everyone and it's going to save a lot on the on our side, too.

Oh, it does. Yeah. We've already seen it at the BZA. I mean, yeah, the staff has been uh heading a lot of stuff off with these pre-filing meetings. So, okay. All right. Are you looking for um an approval of this this evening? Is there some changes she needs to make first? Yeah, it looks like we need a few few cleanups maybe. I think we Yeah, few cleanups. And then what we're the plan is going to be a an ordinance actually. Oh, okay. Um, that needs to go to the board of commissioners. Okay. So, we'll be looking for a favorable recommendation next month. Is this an agenda item or

It will be once it's in ordinance form, wouldn't you say, Rhonda? When it is in ordinance form, will it be an agenda item? Yes. Yes. Because it'll require a public hearing and notice does not require a public hearing. Okay. Thank you. I think the question is does it have to come back here or was this sufficient information ah favorable recommendation based upon what's been presented in our conversation. That's kind of our what we would make a motion to send it on to the board of commissioners with favorable favorable recommendation with these changes.

We're saying doing that next time and not this time. I think they want to do it now. Is that what I'm hearing? It's an option for us. I think I would like to work through some of the pre-application fees that or an application is filed to address some of the 101 legislation. There's some probably some things that still need to be added. Okay. Okay. We can talk about that. Come back do that next next month. And then we have a draft ordinance, too. put it in ordinance form. Yeah.

Okay. We'll see it that way then. Okay, great. Well, yeah, thanks for doing those extra calculations. That was helpful to see kind of where how how this relates to your actual time. Mhm. Okay. Uh item number five, it's on the agenda every month. Shirley Interlocal. There's still people here that want to hear about the Shirley Interlocal. Bet you no one here wants to hear. You do. Yeah, I think Judy does. Wendle does. Wendle does. [laughter] What's new with it?

A very quick update um from Rhonda, but it's more next month. But Rhonda, do you want to give them just a quick update?

Um I've been um speaking with Shirley's attorney, Julie New House. She sent some drafts over. um think we still need to work through a couple of things because um Henry County has an advisory plan commission and not an area plan commission. So some of the we need some tweaks in some of those documents. Um so I think probably by next month we'll have some more conversations about I think she sent me about three or four different doc that she wanted Shirley to consider. So, some is just amending their town code in itself and then others is uh I know but I know she has reached out to the Henry County attorney for um some feedback and they were there was a little bit of a disagreement about what needed to be done but I think that had to do with whether they had area planning or advisory. So,

okay.

All right. Are these for our Uh yeah, just a real quick up a couple other updates. Um it was a busy month at Tech, so I just wanted to let you know Hancock Gateway actually had two items at Tech that did not require plan commission approval. Um so it's a uh a retail center. Um that's one thing I gave you a a rendering of as well as and that's going to go by the the Starbucks, a little bit closer to the roundabout right by the Starbucks. and a um another medical building um which is going to go I believe near the entrance uh on the south side of the entrance road off of um m off of uh Mount Comfort Road. Um both also involved replats of uh existing blocks in the um Hancock Gateway. Um so that's basically just u adjustments more or less. Um, once again, nothing that really required plan commission approval, just running it through tech committee and all the same old same old, but wanted you guys to be aware that Hancock had some cool projects coming up. So, if you have any questions, feel free to take a look at those. And Harold Gibson's your guy on any more details on that. Um, I also met Oh, and there was a um another warehouse, not too exciting, but there's a big set of plans here in case you were curious. uh going on 300 north near 400 west uh in that Ambrose development that has kind of an internal uh drive system near the um kind of a very heavily treed uh parcel um on 300 North. Um anyway, uh that's a pretty nice little industrial area. They're they're doing everything pretty well there, so we're It wasn't a very complicated technical review. um pretty

standard um here anymore. All right. And um we had a meeting at McCordsville with the airport uh planners um Emanuel uh I'm forgetting his last name. Um Mald Mald Maldonado I think. And uh and also um Drew uh with the airport authority. Um they have adopted a uh airport master plan. It's it's done. It's finally adopted. I have a big set of plans in my office, a flash drive I gave to John Milbour. Hopefully he can do something cool on on Beacon or uh something like that. Um why this is significant, they are realigning one the little north south airport to be truly due north south. if you were to hang it due north south up from the the top north end of where it is currently and they've purchased property um all the way down to 300 north. So you can kind of see that alignment and to protect it. Um and then they are extending or kind of shifting uh the east west runway a little bit further to the east and strengthening it is my understanding. Um at the at the moment, this will not impact any roads. Um except it will when it is done free up uh land that is currently on the west side of Mount Comfort Road, currently owned by the airport and maintained just as Farmfield because it's in the runway clear zone. Um once that shift is made, that land will be available for development. That's the significant part. Um with this shift uh a little bit to the east um we also discussed that it was very very important to maintain uh the airport overlay district uh overlay district um any sort of height um

requirements, use restrictions, things like that because that approach from the east is um special and kind of secondary to uh Indianapolis International airport. Um, so in case of emergency, keeping that allows for some pretty big planes to land. Um, which is why they really felt that it was important. They compared it to a secondary airport, sort of like um, uh, Midway and, um, what's the other one in Chicago? O'Hare. Oh,

yes. Kind of like that uh, relationship. So having a secondary airport um, like that, they could see it really growing and being important. Anyway, uh it was a really cool meeting. Um the important part about that is what we're going to see is either a adoption of this a little bit into our amendment into our comprehensive plan or at least recognition of the airport's plan because it does change some use patterns especially around comfort village. Um and we also need to make sure that any realignment is uh appropriately addressed in the actual airport overlay itself. So currently it is based on the present the present location of the runways. Once those are realigned um and really now now that we know that the plan is to realign them uh the proper thing to do would be to amend the airport overlay district to protect the future alignment. So that's probably what we need to discuss a little bit more. I I need to probably explore that a little bit more in uh over the next month or two. Um but that is what came out of that meeting. Um they are also concerned about data centers uh because of pole heights and other things. So

because of what uh pole heights um and other electric infrastructure. Uh I think that was the gist of it. It was a really cool meeting. Um but that's what what really came out of it. Okay. And the final item, I just wanted to point out that the park reszone from R1 to IL in N, sorry, has been um withdrawn. So, we won't see any more of that. Oh, okay. Mhm. All right. What else you got for us? That was it. I'm all talked out. Yeah.

24 minutes to go before the nine o'clock hour. What you guys want to do? I want to go home. [laughter] So sorry, Mike. I motion to adjurnn. Okay. Second. All right. All right. Moved in a second and to adjurnn. All those in favor signify by saying I. All right. Well, then go home