Hancock County Council Budget, Efficiency and Revenue Committee and Council - Regular Meeting

If you'll grab your fund balances, let's do our due diligence and go through the fund balances. Grab your paperwork. On page one, we've got the general fund looking healthy. and 1112 economic development is building up you know we've got the extra money coming in there lit special purpose is healthy community corrections project 1122 is healthy then the two cum funds the bridge fund and the cum capital 35 and 38 look healthy Health Department, 1159, looks healthy. And then there, 1161, the first Indiana, is looking real healthy. And 1170, public safety, lit public safety, very healthy, and a rainy day, as always. Chime in if you got questions or comments. Page two. Down there, 1207, unsafe building. I know we've got some questions today about that. You'll see there's a balance in there. 1213, CASA is healthy. 1222, E911, that's the fee part of it, is getting really stretched. And then 1233, 34, The two lit correctional, the first one is the capital fund where we're gonna take the money for the new building. And then the operating fund is getting stretched. And then 1235 is lit public safety. Looks pretty good. And then 2501 drug court is in black. Page three. 2509 Behavioral Court is in the black. Then we get into the allocation fund and the bonds. 4616 is the big TIF. And 4623 is the 2021 Geobond proceeds. There's still a healthy balance there. And then there are two TIFs. look like they're getting money in them. And then the 20, 4629 is the 2022 bond proceeds. That's for the E911, still a balance there. And 4631 is the 2022 GO bond. A lot of money still there. 2023 GO bond is getting down to about nothing. And 4634 is, The TIF, I think that's the hospital TIF getting money in it. And then you see a GDI TIF getting money in it. That's to pay for their road work. Page four. 46 38 is the 2025 Geo bond proceeds there 4700 is the liability the self insurance line healthy 40 49 08 that's the EDA payments line 49 13 jury pay is in the black okay And then 5901, 5902 are the two health claims funds. Look pretty good. Page five. Oh yeah, page five. Food and beverage, 7201 looks good. 7304, we talked somewhat about tourism. You can actually see on that line what goes what has gone in to them And the last page is 26 page 6 89 16 That must be the senior services Transportation line I think And then 89.55 and 60 are the CARES Act lines and ARPA. ARPA has $2.24 in it. Yay.

Got it there tonight.

Oh. Got to get it to zero, though.

Yeah, we do.

Any comments or suggestions or additions?

Okay.

Second CCD shortfall Scott. Is Scott here?

Two Scotts are here.

Good morning. Morning.

So I'm here to ask for an additional appropriation to the CCD for my truck payments. At the beginning of the year, I had a large repair, almost $5,000. And I should have come in earlier to ask, but I didn't. So I'm here now to ask for another $5,000 for the remaining monthly payments for the year and oil changes and any unforeseen. That's for a vehicle? Yes, that's for the company truck we have for the building department.

What do you think? Want to do something? You do it.

Do you need that money right away? Is that what you were telling us? You don't have time for the invoice process?

Yeah.

Or the appropriation process.

Yeah, the September payments due the 25th.

So we need to take it out of September, right?

He has enough for September.

I will. So you won't have this?

Yeah. I mean, that $5,000 repair is definitely out of the norm. I mean, we don't expect it every year. Is there a motion?

I'm going to take it from him.

Food and beverage, I suppose, yeah.

I mean, we have enough time to advertise he can have his money next month. He won't need it until next month. His payment on the 25th, he has money to cover it, I believe.

I'll make a motion to appropriate $5,000 from food and beverage. It is, okay. Building, I'd say building.

We can't move money. Mary was suggesting something else.

Well, we can't move money from one fund to another. We can't commingle from food and beverage into CCD. We just want to pay the bill from there. He has the right to pay the bill. That's not the issue. We can either do an additional appropriation in food and beverage or in CCD, or we can just give him a thumbs up to advertise.

From CCD? Yes, yes. Sorry. Okay.

Well, let's... Is that okay, Mary?

Yes, that's fine.

I thought it was just a professional shortfall, so it's just a transfer of funds, basically?

I thought he had enough, but maybe we better double-check.

828. I don't think so.

Okay. Maybe we better do food and beverage then.

Okay. We're back to food and beverage? Yeah. We're back. We'll just do food and beverage. Okay. All right. There's a motion on the floor. I'll second it. I move and seconded that we take $5,000 from food and beverage for their CCD. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed?

Aye. Carried.

What else? Scott. Okay. In my unsafe building fund, initially when you guys appropriated that for me, due to a math error, I didn't ask for enough. So I've paid the contractor, and then I took the $1,000 shortfall I had there out of my contractual services line to cover the invoice. But then Mary and I talked about maybe to reimburse the unsafe building fund.

I didn't know you took money out of another line. I thought you were just going to ask for an additional in the unsafe building fund.

No, I didn't ask to appropriate enough in the beginning.

Right, so I thought you were coming to ask for an additional in the unsafe building fund.

To appropriate that to reimburse back into my contractual services.

Okay, we can do a claim adjustment after the fact.

Yes.

Okay. So how much, so you do need an additional in the unsafe building fund? How much do you need? Just $1,000? Okay. So you need to ask for advertisement of $1,000? Yeah. Okay.

Well, there's a balance in there.

There is a balance in there, but I didn't appropriate it. He has cash. He just needs to appropriate it.

He didn't appropriate it enough when he came in. All right. Thumbs up for advertising? All right.

Okay, Scott. That's all I had. Thank you. Jeremy? Is he here? He's not here. The lit ordinance. Scott and Greg? The commissioners in their meeting yesterday passed the ordinance. Do we need to do anything?

I don't think... Mary, on the lit ordinance, were there signatures for the council? Yeah, that's the council.

There are signatures for the council only. Yes.

I don't think we were supposed to do that.

No, you don't have to do that.

It should have been the council only. That was something we did.

But it's okay to hear from you guys and say, yeah, we support this. We support it. We'll probably have to go back and adjust it in our meeting minutes. That's fine.

The commissioners held the public hearing. YESTERDAY. WE NEED TO PASS IT. WAS THAT CORRECT? BECAUSE I THOUGHT COUNCIL WOULD BE HOLDING THE PUBLIC HEARING. WHAT'S THE ORDINANCE NUMBER?

DO YOU HAVE IT?

2026-8B AS IN BOY. 8B?

OKAY. WAIT. FOR CLARIFICATION, THE COMMISSIONER HAS HELD A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE LIT ORDINANCE. We should hold the public hearing.

That was my question.

Should you have held the public hearing? And we have not advertised a public hearing.

We have not advertised a public hearing for the council, no.

And I agree. I don't think we would want to just use the public hearing that was advertised yesterday. No. You guys should.

And you'll need 10 days, right? So we're talking the first week of October.

No, we're talking the joint September meeting.

Okay.

We do joint September meeting. Okay. So thumbs up to advertise for the joint September meeting for the lit. Got it? Okay.

Okay. Is Jeremy back? No, he's not here. Okay, the Walmart EDA correction, just an explanation of that. It would appear that in the EDA that we approved with the developer GDI, We approved the wrong tax abatement schedule and it was brought to our attention when the building was sold to Walmart. Walmart looked at it apparently and did an analysis and said it isn't correct. They have paid their taxes but It appears that it's incorrect. So we asked Scott and Greg to look at it and come up with the recommendations as to how we correct it.

He says the abatement is wrong.

Yeah, the abatement is wrong. The abatement schedule. The actual schedule.

I'm just trying to follow that. How different are they?

Well, what I had said was I wanted somebody to go back and review the tape, like what were we talking about, what was said. I didn't personally see it. Mary, did you do that in your office? Or who looked back at those meetings?

Deb? I believe Deb did.

The abatement application asks the company and what abatement schedule they're requesting. So where did we make the error?

Well, I think this was the very first EDA, wasn't it? I'm pretty sure it was the very first one.

It probably was, and it got a little convoluted because there were three steps in it. The final step was, as I recall, GDI offered to build the road for their development. And that changed the, I think, the schedule. And we picked up the schedule that we passed. It was the previous one that had been made up not including the road construction thing. So there were like three different iterations of it that I saw. And we somehow picked up the second iteration instead of the last.

The problem I foresee with this, and I'll work with Greg, this did come up earlier, and I spoke to Deb, the auditor, about it, is the confirming resolution did contain the schedule that's currently in place. So the question then becomes, well, GDI was present for that, and I don't know who attached the schedule or whether you know, how that transpired. So I do think that Mary's correct. I think we need to do a little research on that and go back and see because that was the confirming resolution. I understand what's equitably being discussed right now, but that's why I took the position that was controlling at that point because it was the confirming resolution and parties were, you know, there and spoke to it. So now to go back and change that, how does that affect what was collected from GDI previously? Those kinds of issues have to be considered. Jim brought it to my attention here recently to review again, which I'm happy to do.

Written and agreed to after the resolution had passed or before?

That's why we need to look at the history.

I would think the EDA should line up with the... Usually that's first, but... Confirming resolution that we approved, and prior they would have negotiated those terms into... what the resolution finally said.

It was confusing at the time because with the EDA, the abatement schedule is squirrelly. It's not 190, 80, it's squirrelly.

The abatement is or the EDA is?

The abatement schedule is part of the EDA. And I think we on the council didn't pick up the fact that we had the wrong schedule because it wasn't a normal schedule.

Has the auditor's office reviewed any of this?

Yes, actually, Nicole has reviewed all of those as well, and she is present. She just reviewed those within the last week or two.

Can we hear from Nicole, please?

So I listened to everything, reviewed the tapes. So there were three different versions. There was when everyone was initially talking about it, and then there was the confirming, and then there was an EDA. So the confirming was signed first, and it had the 80, 80, it was 380%, 70, 65, 50, 35, 25, 15, and 5. So it was 10-year abatement. So that was what was in the confirming resolution. And then the EDA came down the line, and then the EDA was signed 90-90-90, and then nobody came back after the fact to say, hey, the EDA does not match the confirming until now. Well, actually last year, but...

So the bottom line is, I think, though, that There is a correct abatement schedule and the one that is being used right now is not correct.

We are using the confirming resolution based upon Scott's recommendation. I would think that it would take precedence.

It's a legal document. Correct. I would think it would have to.

Yeah. And Nicole? Yeah, I think so too. Could you state your name and who you're with?

I am Nicole Byerly with the Auditor's Office.

Thank you.

Yep.

Yeah, it almost seems to me like if there was, I was under the impression perhaps the schedule that we voted on in the meeting didn't get attached, but it sounds like that's not the case. The schedule we voted on in the meeting was attached. It was. And that is, and so if anything's wrong, it sounds like the EDA payment with the commissioners is wrong, not the abatement with the council is what it sounds like.

Especially if the customer was there and witnessing and approving their intent and filling out the application.

I think, Greg, have you been asked to look into it and give your... I'm working with Nicole.

I'm in agreement with Nicole, and the schedule got amended during the EDA process. If you remember, we synchronized the EDA payment and the abatement schedule. It changes the abatement schedule, and unbeknownst to us, you did not reconfirm a new schedule, I get. That's my understanding.

But then the onus is on us. is on GDI, make sure that that happens. So perhaps the way to approach this, I think we're gonna need to digest this a little bit, but would be to change it going forward for Walmart, because this is a new entity, not retroactively. They've already made their payments. I do. Is that what you're kind of looking at, Jim?

Well, I think we need to correct it and make it right.

Correct the payment application or correct the,

Whatever it takes, I don't know.

The EDA. Well, it makes a difference. Why can't we just ask the commissioner to adjust the EDA to match the confirming resolution, which is what should have been done? That's the error in my opinion.

If that's what needs to be done.

That doesn't give them any relief, though. Pardon me? That wouldn't give Walmart any relief because they're going to be operating for one week.

Oh, we can do that. We could do that separately.

Just pointing that out, if that's the end goal.

Randy, did you have something?

Just one thing.

I was talking to Nicole about this. The economic development agreements were contracts entered into among GDI, the Board of Commissioners, and the Redevelopment Commission. So the RDC signed off on that as well. And I don't have the... document in front of me, so I don't know which one occurred first as far as executed.

Confirming resolution was first.

Confirming resolution was dated before the economic development agreement? That's what Nicole just said.

Okay. And that's why I've taken the position that was controlling.

Well, I agree that it's controlling because this is the only body that can grant an abatement. And so what their action Whether it's accurate or inaccurate, it's still binding because that's the official action. Exactly. I agree with that. And that's what I told Nicole a year ago when this came up. But if there is a contract among the RDC, the Board of Commissioners, and GDI that had a particular bargain in there, and they don't get the benefit of that bargain, then they comply with the resolution to pay the taxes. in accordance with the abatement schedule, but they didn't get the benefit of the bargain under the contract.

But the onus is on them. See, that's the other part of it to come back.

Right. And what I don't know, I don't know, certainly I kind of looked at the EDA, but I also don't know about the terms of the purchase and sale agreement between GDI and I don't know how much is binding on the successors and the signs, and how much of it's still GDI's fight.

I'm really keen to, if somebody is paying, if the record shows somebody has been overpaying to what it seems was agreed to, I don't have a problem with exploring rectification for that, but I don't see why we would change the abatement when they can go change the EDA contract with the commissioners and the RDC and leave the abatement as was approved. And if they reduce the EDA payment proportionally, there should be room in there to make up for the fact someone feels they're overpaying.

Yeah, because if you can fix the EDA payment to comport with what the abatement schedule is that you guys adopted, that works. But again, none of us know if... the current owner of the building has the ability to go back and renegotiate that contract.

Why would the current owner even be involved if we're talking about taxes paid prior to them purchasing it? Going forward, they don't want to pay that much. But we're talking about going forward, and I would say that they would then talk to the commissioners and then walk through what happened.

But we also don't know, like I said, we don't know if they have the right to enforce or renegotiate that contract.

Who has a copy? So we need to request a copy of that.

I've got a copy of it. Oh, you do? But I have a copy of the EDA. I do not have the purchase and sale agreement.

That's what I'm talking about. I think we need to examine that.

Yeah, I'm not keen on setting the precedent that once an abatement's approved here, that if you go get other deals with other bodies, that by default we're supposed to modify what we've agreed to on abatement. But I do want to be fair, and if it was clear in those meetings that a certain amount was intended to be paid, then I would pursue adjusting the EDA payment.

That may be the solution. We have to adjust the EDA.

And there's only so many years left on it, not retroactive.

We can explore that. Okay. Between you and I, because that agreement was signed by the RDC, too. They'd have to approve that.

Right.

That would be, as I sit here now, maybe the best solution. Again, that would be GDIs.

I don't think there's any rather than getting into yellow stock let's not get into the do we the the deal that that we were trying to implement with the EDAs was that we would get some cash rather than through the regular system of collecting money and the deal was that the EDA in the end would, the total payments would equal what a regular 10-year abatement schedule would yield. So it isn't, that isn't what's happening, so I think we need to correct that. Now whether we go back I think is step two, but I think we need to correct it. Now, for going forward at least, if that's the simple thing to do,

I think we are, we're going to explore modifying the EDA and amending that and then to provide appropriate remedy. Okay.

So let's not get into the weeds of going back right now. Can you do that by the next meeting? I think so.

I think we can. We're going to get the documents from you.

The tax guy from Walmart here is on other things. We've got about a week. He said he can get those documents and he's going to get them. Give me a minute.

amended agreement by next week but I will do our best to move this along yeah I'm not in a hurry but okay yeah I would take it back to the EDA but I'll go back to the commissioners anyway we're not going to make an adjustment to the payment which I don't support changing that document especially this far down the road then it's really going to come back to just whatever the commissioners want to make an amendment to their contract for that I had nothing to do with it

We're just listening to learning.

And the council had nothing to do with the EDA.

I didn't have anything to do with the EDA either.

That's whatever you guys work out on your own terms. So, sorry, Gary.

Well, if it has to come back before us first, it will.

Let's leave it for now and we'll stir it up and bring it back up next week.

We're going to bring it back up next week.

Well, I don't know if that's enough time to get it completed.

Well, yeah, we've got to get the commissioners time to work on what they may want to do with the EDA.

And our schedule is pretty full, so it may be something we do for the joint meeting.

Right.

Okay. Okay. Jeremy's here.

Next, Jerry. Yes, sir. You have a little old business.

Yes. I brought this up during the budget hearing. You guys told me you didn't want to hear it, so. But we have two people leaving at the end of the year, our IT people. And we would like to get somebody in here early. That way we didn't just throw somebody into a job and them have to reinvent the wheel. So I'm looking at possibly needing about $60,000 to overlap for Dusty and for Bernie. I'd like to take that from food and beverage if we could. Or at least approve it that way the auditor can pay. And that doesn't – I don't think that even includes all the – PERF and all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, I want to bring it to your attention. That way we can at least get it to where the auditor can actually get all that money.

Oh, it's $60,000 to finish out salaries for two people?

Yes. Okay.

Would that get you three whole months?

I'm hoping it does. We've not even started advertising for it because we didn't have the approval for the money.

I am supportive of some overlap, particularly in that department.

It could be even higher than that when you come to PERF and all that kind of stuff, but I just need you guys' approval to actually have her to spend that money for that.

Yes. And if we approve getting you the extra money for overlap, will you be advertising for Bernie's position?

Yes, I just emailed Andrea, HR, to actually start advertising for those jobs.

Okay, yeah.

I've talked to him before on this. The IT director, we definitely want to get in. Because my understanding from them is it's most likely, not necessarily positive, but most likely going to be someone from the outside coming in. So it would be very important to bring someone in. I'm not Dusty's job. I'm maybe a month advanced. The thing is, Dusty does a lot.

He does.

Yeah, but IT director is a lot more important.

Yeah, but Dusty, yeah. He sits there through a lot of meetings, so he's busy. So I could see where it would be nice to take that job and actually have some hands on before you got there. Yes. So I support the yes.

So we would be approving right now like not to exceed $60,000, and then at the end of the year you might be a little short.

If we need some more, then I'll come back to you guys and beg again.

The commissioners have $50,000. now appropriated in food and beverage for whatever they want for. Do you want to keep that and do this separate?

I want to keep that just in case we have something else that comes up. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I agree. Bernie's been here forever. Yeah. So it's going to... Take a long time for him to... Have one every place. Teach somebody.

Do we have enough in food and beverage at this time?

Yes, we currently have 200... Because I know we're going to add more next month. Yes, we have 254,000 appropriated, and we have another 150 that we're going to advertise... Next week. Next week. We're holding the public hearing. So we have plenty of money.

I'll make a motion to use up to $60,000 toward replacing IT personnel prior to year-end from food and beverage. I'll second it.

I don't know if replacing is the best term, but I understand what you're saying.

Yeah, filling, yeah, filling. We know what she's saying. Yes. Got it.

Okay, so all in favor say aye. Aye.

All opposed?

Thank you.

And I do have a question on that, Mary. So salary ordinance only needs amended if those people end up with a different pay schedule. Is there any, we're not creating a position that will perpetuate past year end, a new position. Do you have like on paper a way to do that without new salary ordinance for the temporary term?

I don't think so. No, I think we will have to do a salary ordinance, but it will end on December 31st.

Okay. I just want to make sure it didn't carry over extra positions into the next calendar year.

Yeah, no, it will not. Okay. Because they are not on the 144. Okay.

Thank you. Jeremy's here.

Oh, Jeremy? Jeremy. We thought maybe you decided not to ask for anything. Yeah, you weren't here on time, so we were about ready to skip you.

I usually am. I got caught up. I have a trial next week. I'm in the middle of prepping for it, so thank you for your time in advance, though. I appreciate it. Yeah, request $150,000 to hopefully get us through, should get us through the rest of the year for attorney services, and then $50,000 for the appeals for that giant Fort Dakota defendant trial. I was in front of you a few times just giving a heads up that that was going to be a lot of money. It looks like it's not going to be as much as we feared. We're looking at maybe up to $80,000, but we're thinking $50,000 should cover it for the transcripts.

So what's the total? $200,000. $200,000.

Refresh my memory, next year for the 27 budget, we put a more appropriate number for Jeremy's. So this is just, so we expect this to self-resolve in 2027, yes?

No problem, yes. We started, so just for edification, we were, our budget for attorney services started out at $100,000 this year. We've come back two other times. and this is the third time so for next year though we've been granted five hundred thousand dollars for attorney service budget again never any promises but with this 150 plus what we've done that puts us at about 550 in attorney services for the year and we've had some extra expenses to share with that that four code offended trial attorneys for that the appeals stuff we're paying out for that so we've had some additional expenses because of that um so yeah looking forward to next year we think we're going to be in much better shape and accent the

So you think the $500,000 for next year ought to be adequate?

Well, we're going to be at $550,000 by September for this. And then the other thing, transcripts. I remember you standing up here talking about transcripts. You broke down for us who's doing them, how much they make an hour, et cetera.

Yeah.

Did we already allocate extra money for this? You were prepping us for this.

Just preparing. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. It is this, not something, not two separate situations. And we don't even, yeah. They, and just so you're, so again, there has been a final, there are three different reporters working on this trying to get this all done for the court. They requested a final extension of time, which was granted. They have 30 days from August 31st to complete all the transcripts So and at that point that's one payment will be due so we'll have that that won't be staring over into next year and just On the other side of asking for money so far you today just so the council knows we have the county's received over three hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars in reimbursement from the commission and And October 1st, that week of October 1st, we should be receiving another $130,000. So that will bring our total this year to $468,000 and change for county reimbursement. That eases the pain at all.

It does. It does. Do we want to pay this from county general? Okay. I would prefer to take it out of county general, not food and beverage. I'm looking at Greg making sure he's okay with that.

We need to advertise for it.

Yes.

So thumbs up if you're willing to advertise.

Yep.

Okay. For 200,000?

Yeah, 150 and 50. Okay.

They'll be separate votes.

Okay.

Hope you don't have to see me again. Thank you very much, everybody. Appreciate it.

Thanks, Jeremy.

Okay. Next on the agenda is Walmart, and they want to address us about an abatement, and it's for information only.

Eric? And I think we also have someone signed up for public comment as well, so I want to make sure. I got told that before, so I want to make sure we have that on the agenda.

Go ahead. Good morning. Eric Hinks from Walmart Public Affairs. Got the whole team here for us this morning to make sure we are answering every question you all have. So Trevor's here with me. He'll introduce himself directly here in a minute. And then Greg and Ted behind them come in from Bentonville. They're from our tax department. I can tell you they were listening intently to the previous conversation that you all just had. and Greg knows exactly what Randy and the rest of the team are gonna need from us on that piece. So thank you for the conversation there. Our conversation here is on the schedules that we've been talking with you all about this, Business Journal kind of landed on my desk over the weekend, and as I was looking through, I see here the largest employers in Indiana listed with, of course, our friends at Lilly down at number nine, Indiana University in the state of Indiana, four and five, Indiana University Health System at number three. Number two is the US government, and number one on the list, Walmart Inc. In case you're wondering why that sheet that Ms. Keeley has there in her left hand is in front of you, my wife will tell you I'm a more visual person and my mother will tell you I don't have an inside voice. So that explains where we're at in the state of Indiana and why that matters is because in addition to being the largest employer in the state, we are also the largest employer here in your county. And what we're going to talk about today, specifically what that means for you all, for us as your partners, as a corporate citizen here in the county, And Trevor's gonna come up and kind of walk you through some of the numbers specifically about what he has under his roof at what we call Indy One, which is the large facility where the current expansion is going on and all the jobs affiliated with that. So I'm gonna turn it over to him to have him walk you through those numbers. I'll be back with you in just a second. And then, like I said, we'll have Greg and Ted on standby to talk also about Indy Six, what we're doing there and any specifics that you might have when it comes to taxes payment schedules and those things that we're looking at. Does that sound okay for the morning? Great. Thank you.

I'm gonna turn it over to Trevor.

Good morning. Good morning. So my name, if I haven't got a chance to meet you yet, my name is Trevor McCarthy. So first and foremost, thank you all for your time this morning. And I get the honor to represent Indy 3. So I am the general manager for Walmart's biggest building they have ever built in the history of Walmart. And they chose Hancock County. Okay, so just a couple stats in regards to what Indy 3 is, what it represents, and just some of the history, right? So Indy 3 started this adventure of building the 2.4 million square foot building that is now, again, under construction in about 2020. So this has been a six year process from groundbreaking to construction, and it actually opened up for full operations about three years ago, right? As you think about the total investment of the original building, the land, all of that, we're talking almost a billion dollars for that initial building of what they built and what is currently constructed just down the road over in McCordsville, right? As we think about The continued investment and why we are investing. Indiana is a wonderful place to live, right? I just moved here a couple months ago, right? This is my third building and I'm super excited that I was given the opportunity to live in Indianapolis and lead this building. And Walmart is continuing to invest in Indianapolis and specifically in Hancock County, right? If you haven't had a chance to come visit and tour Indy 3, I would welcome all of you guys to come, specifically because we are investing again. So about a year and a half ago, we started the biggest construction project that Walmart's ever done on an active building. that is fully running, right? It's a half a billion dollar investment to take a already gigantic building and then make it bigger so that we can then provide more jobs for the local community, have more of a presence in the local community, and offer more jobs to the local community for the communities that we serve, right? So I just want to give you a couple stats in regards to where we're at on that process, as well as some things that I think are important when we talk about community engagement and community impact. So as we talked earlier, like Indy 3 is not just a building. It's not just a fulfillment center. We have a massive role in our communities. We have a massive role with our associates. So as it stands today, I have about 1,800 associates. As we go into peak season, which is going to be starting before I know it, we will go up to almost 2,200 associates. And we'll add about 400 associates. That will be a mix of seasonal and full time. I have construction projects that are going to be about a third of the way done at the end of September, so we're about three weeks away, and then I'll be able to add more of that mix of full-time versus seasonal. As we get into May of next year, I will be completely done with construction. I hope. When we get done with all of that construction, we'll be then hiring another almost 600 people to fill out all those different roles within my facility. So when we get from today, we're at 1,800, and we add the additional 600 to 800-ish, we're talking a building that's going to be 2,500 to 2,800 total associates working for Walmart in a form or fashion of either seasonal or full-time. When we talk about jobs, and you guys have it in front of you, I think the average wage in the state of Indiana is about $19 with Walmart. Supply chain is a different entity all by itself. My starting wage within my facility is $22.55, and that is the minimum wage entry-level Warehouse associate that comes into my facility right now depending on what shift you want to work on I have four shifts that building runs 24 hours seven days a week You can actually get up to almost $30 an hour for your very first job ever working in a floor house You can make almost $30 an hour for context. My wife is a nurse She's been registered nurse for six years when she graduated college and got a job. She made $32 an hour and My first job was a dishwasher. I made $4 an hour in Nevada. I made a bad choice. I should have worked for Walmart. As we talk about not only the impact that we have on our associates, but on the local community, this construction project that we're talking about is a years-long adventure, almost two and a half years. We've had almost 600 full-time construction workers at my facility now for almost a year and a half, and we've got about eight more months to go. 80% of all of those construction workers are all from local communities, local counties. Whether that's Ryan Fire, whether that's Mount Vernon Fire Department coming out to help and inspect and train, whether that's iron workers and steel workers and all those different folks that have those specialties and trade jobs, to come help us get our construction project done. So as we think about not only us having a future impact on full-time jobs, we're also adding stimulus to the economy by providing different types of jobs for a very long stretch of time. The other thing that I'm very proud of as we talk about the community impact. One of Walmart's core values is giving back to our community, right? If you guys, I'm sure you're familiar with Amplify Hancock, right? Very fortunate that I was asked to go meet Stan Wilkinson and his team. We were there for his grand opening. And we've already started to contribute to that organization because as I talked with Stan, I want that to be a pipeline from his organization straight down the road to come work at Indy 3 for Walmart, right? If you guys haven't been there before, a wonderful organization from a training, a career development, a skills development aspect, whether it's electrical, plumbing, welding, HVAC, and that would fit perfectly in a variety pack of roles that I offer as full-time employment for those younger people that are kind of looking for a job, right? When I was younger, I had no clue what I wanted to do, so I joined the Army because they offered to pay for school, right? What a great transition to build that relationship, right? And then also as we just talk about other things that are important within our world, Mount Vernon School District, my DO, Director of Operations, he's actually a board member on that board because his kids go to that school district. He wants to be involved in that community, he wants to be involved in those areas. We also have great partnerships with Buck Creek Fire Departments. As we talk about our local responders, we had 12 different fire chiefs come out over the last couple of months because I want them to see what our building looks like. I want them to train. We had the opportunity for them to do ladder training and come up on our roof. I think six of their trucks or six of their chiefs were able to take advantage of actually working and practicing on our roof. If you haven't seen Indy 3, it's a little bit tall. So it's a great opportunity to use those ladders. And then as we talk about giving back to our community, First American Harvest, we have a great partnership with them. They actually just came out and toured the building yesterday. And we will start giving to that organization, not only with different supplies and things that we can help with the the greater Indianapolis area, but also Hancock County, but also volunteerism, right? We, one of our big goals is to try to volunteer 1,000 hours every single year. And we're basically five months into the year and we're already at 800 hours, right? And so we are very busy in our community trying to help in any way, shape, or form that we can, not only through grants, but through mentorship, leadership, providing things for our local communities that they need. Perfect example, Amplify Hancock is looking for a forklift, right? I was very fortunate. Walmart's a giant organization that has a lot of forklifts. We were able to find one for them. And now I'm working on how do I get it from the West Coast to Indianapolis. But luckily, Walmart has a few trucks that I think I might be able to borrow. So when we think about what Indy 3 is, what Walmart is doing with the investment within this facility, as well as in our local communities, that $1.6 billion investment, all said and done, is gonna create thousands of full-time jobs, it's gonna create thousands of opportunities for our associates, it'll create thousands of opportunities for us to be involved in our community, give back to our community, and also just provide those doorways and their stair steps for people that want to do more. I have 120-ish salaried managers. We hired 40 salaried managers this last summer for our expansion. We've done 160 internal promotions over the last 18 months from a entry-level floor associate to a lead, an area manager, our maintenance techs, all those different skill sets. And that all came from Indy 3 and all came from people that live in this local community. So, um, Again, just wanted to provide some details for you all hopefully to paint a bigger picture on What that building is about right? It's not just a fulfillment center where hopefully you guys all shop and I get things to your door I hope on time and if I don't I'm sorry. I'll work on that But it's so much more than just a building and there's so many things that we're working on for the investments for the future To play a big role in Hancock County. So I'll pause there Does anyone have any questions that maybe I can help answer for you?

I have some clarifications. Um Now, I think you mentioned you lived in Indianapolis. You live in Hancock County. So we actually bought a house up in Fishers.

So I missed it by a couple of miles. Yeah. To be honest, I have moved my wife more times than I can count between the army and then with this role. And so this deal was you pick the house and we'll move there. And then. Does Andrew Fair still work for you? He actually doesn't. He actually left just this last, I think it was December, right? So I know he's been very involved in the community. Chris Austin is now his replacement. He's now taking over a lot of those community involvements.

I assume you use robotics at the fulfillment center also?

Yeah.

So what percentage of your day-to-day work is taken care of by the robots?

Yeah, 100%. So Indy 3 is what we call a fully automated facility. So when you think about that sentence, it sounds like robots do all the work. Walmart is utilizing robotics to enhance our associate experience and make our associates' lives easier, right? So if you've ever worked in a fulfillment center or just a warehouse in general that doesn't have any type of automation, you are walking the entire time. Right. My very first job, I worked as an area manager with Amazon on the West Coast. My pickers on average walk 20 miles per day. Right. Every single person. Right. In this facility, the longest walk my associates do is from their station to the break room and back. All of the work comes to our associates versus our associates going to the work. Right. So the automation is there to enhance the associate experience, keep them safer from an ergonomics perspective, make it easier from a flow and just everyday use perspective. And it's actually not designed to replace anything. It's designed to enhance those roles.

You don't see the robotics. taking jobs that will eventually be more efficient for you? No.

No, at the end of the day, there is going to always have to be someone that has to put that item in a box. There's always going to be someone who has to take the item out of the box or unload a trailer and things of that nature. All of the robotics that we have at Indy 3 is, again, there to make our associates safer and make their lives easier, right?

I have a question about if you could tell me right now and in the future what you're thinking of being involved in the community, things that Walmart wants to do for the community.

Yeah, absolutely. So we talked a little bit about Walmart has a very robust grant opportunity, right? It's all through 501Cs. It's all to our nonprofits. And like we were just talking to Eric earlier today, obviously, we are a national company. So anyone can apply. Over the last couple of months, I have only approved things that are in Indianapolis and in their local area. Because while it would be great to give to FEMA down in Orlando or to the Boys and Girls Clubs of Chicago, I don't live there. My associates don't live there. We don't have that impact, right? So from a grants perspective, we're able to give back to those facilities and those 501Cs that apply to Walmart for help. And then I can actually help those local communities with different financial grants. From other aspects, we call it VAP. So it's called Volunteering Always Pays, right? And my team, they go through and they talk to their local communities to see how they can help. So we talked a little bit about Mount Vernon School District. Two or three weeks ago, I had 19 managers go feed teachers, right? They were doing a teacher conference. They went and fed teachers. We actually provided some of the food for that just to give back. We've gone to our food banks and our food shelters to help sort packages and sort food to make sure that we're giving good quality food to those local families that are in need. We talked a little bit about Amplify, right? We're going to have a very big role in that facility because like we talked about transparently, like our youth are the future. And when I was a young man, I didn't exactly have that place to go that gave me, oh, I could learn this and have a successful life. So we will play a huge role in that to hopefully make that a pipeline of you send a young person there to go learn a skill or whatever they would like to focus on, and then hopefully they come right down the street and we have that opportunity.

You made a monetary contribution to Amplify and have anything that you're going to continue the same amount over a period of time through the foundation?

So we are continuing to work on that. So in the future, we are still working on that. Previously, they have, unfortunately, they launched before we could get the 501Cs into my hands and help with that piece. So as of right now, we're not made a financial contribution, but we are going to do an in-kind donation of a forklift for that facility. And I'm sorry, did that answer your question, ma'am?

And just just to add on to that, they do have a grant pending with us on the public affairs side to add a little color to what he's provided for you. So what he's talking about, all of our facilities have the same setup. So our store has a similar situation with volunteer hours for our associates in the store, a budget that the store manager has that he or she can give out to local grant applications. It's the same thing for all of the properties that we have here, right? The Return Center, the Sam's Trucking Facility that we have in the county, and then, of course, Indy 6, which is the other box that we just purchased that will certainly be coming online too. So all of our facilities in the county have their own separate budgets that the Walmart Foundation allocates to them to give back to their specific needs for the communities. And as he alluded to, it's nationwide. So all 4,500 stores across the country have that. In addition to that, like the recent flooding that we had here in Indiana is a good example. So we propped up our emergency operations center at Walmart. We had my colleagues in community relations were up in Gary, Indiana, helping out with the power outages up there. Our emergency operations center was tapped in with the Salvation Army director in Henry County because she was the point person that freed up the Wayne County folks that were physically on the ground that were most impacted by it. So by having those regional and national partnerships were able to lean in and allow the way I look at it was Allowing her and Henry County to serve as the point for all the product in the donation process while working with her Indianapolis-based Salvation Army colleagues, and then of course the Wayne County colleagues that were physically in the field dealing with the flood stuff. So it's multifaceted and multilayered, but that's what the company does. And when you're the largest employer in the state and the largest employer in your county, those are the things as corporate citizens we need to do.

Is there a way, like, I know you turn it into CF1 each year to tell us what's happening with employees. Is there a way to also provide, like, once a year what you guys have done in the county through your 501c3?

And I don't think you wouldn't have any objections sharing that, and I don't think our store manager would have objections sharing that, too. Like I said, they process.

It's amazing the number of grant requests that they all get.

As he alluded to, it's strange to me that, store in Hancock County would get a request from Chicago or Louisville or wherever it would come in but they do they come in from all over and that's part of part of what we encourage and particularly having come from community relations I alluded to this last week when I talked about coming back to government affairs coming out of community so I was doing community relations in Houston and Dallas the last four years Our job is to work with what we call our community champion in the store and the store managers, those community relations roles, to specifically go through that and see where the impact is going to be. And the volunteer hours really matter too.

I would like to see specific donations that are made in Hancock County that are substantial and maybe even have a... long-term effect in that commitment as well are the commissioners are you guys in discussions with Walmart at all as far as an EDA are you planning to or this is first up I don't believe we're doing any more

Continuing EDAs with I keep hearing it both ways.

Well, I mean the EDAs is something of the past Okay, and they didn't always work right so I heard though you guys were Like free tooling it or that's not act.

No, we're staying away from that all together Yeah, well back on In addition to the direct people that you hire I do you continually contract with any other entities that indirectly work for you? I thought maybe you did some of your electronic and mechanical maintenance kind of work with a... Yeah.

So we have a company that we partner with named Kanap, right? And they take care of all of our automation, right? So they are automation experts. And there's over 160 full-time employees that work for that company. And they take care of all the automation, right? So they are basically trained mechanics and or electrical engineers, right? And they have a very, very high-level skill set to make sure that they can take care of all the automation that runs that facility.

And that's for the local? Correct.

All of those associates live in the local area.

One of the other things that I want to touch on for you all is Marion County, of course, is the population center. So he and a lot of our facilities, a number of our associates are from Marion County. Hancock County is number two, particularly at his facility. And by number two, I mean that's a combination. So Johnson, Hamilton, Boone, and Morgan counties combined are what we have here in Hancock County, which is a good start. What was an outlier for me, again, we're both relatively new to the region, was Hendricks County is number three. And that kind of surprised me. But now I understand a lot more. when we had the fire at what we call Indy 1 over on the Plainfield side. A number of those associates were rolled over here to what we call Indy 3, to Trevor's facility, because that's our number one responsibility at that point is to take care of our associates. So now that Indy 1 is coming back online, Trevor's got a little bit. He's going to talk to you all about that and the impact specifically he thinks he'll see here as a result of us talking with our HR teams. Just to be clear, their final walkthrough with the fire marshal over in Plainfield will be September 17th. And they're looking to be up and running to start operations as soon as September 22nd. So they're going to be doing a lot of hiring over there on the playing field side. And of course, we're going to get those moved over to this side. First opportunity to maybe stay off the 465 and go back home. But I'll let him talk about that.

Yeah, I've only been here for about four months and I try to avoid the 465 like the plague. I'm a quick learner. So just out of the 1,800 people that I currently have employed, almost a third of them are actually from the Indy 1 fire. So I think Eric did a great job of explaining it like that. Unfortunately, that fire was very untimely, was not planned. And our first priority was to make sure those associates had jobs that they could stay gainfully employed. So That fire actually happened about nine months before Indy 3 launched. So when this building launched, they started with 600 people already on the roster, right? And they're all from down in the Plainfield area or in that Marion County area. Now, over the next month, we have already started that transferring process to the new IndyOne facility. So out of the 600 that we had from the original group, we just did a survey to ask how many folks would like to transfer back. And it was over 500 associates that would like to go back to that IndyOne facility. Makes total sense. I don't want to drive an hour and a half. on the name or the road that we shall not name, right? So over the last month, they're actually doing what we're calling a soft launch in Indy 2. So it's a facility that's right across the street from Indy 1. I've already transferred 20 associates down there, right? We're going to do them in chunks. Obviously, peak is a very important time for us. So we're going to probably stop the transfer process. And I would argue the beginning of October. And then next year, we are going to try to transfer all 500 plus associates down to that Indy 1 facility so that they can get back to where they would like to be. And then again, that will open up more opportunities for us to backfill all of those full-time associates and those full-time jobs at this facility here in Indy 3.

I noticed on the application that there were some questions you guys skipped over and didn't answer. Okay. One is what is the abated requested amount on the personal property?

I've got Greg and Ted are both here, too. They can talk to some specifics on the application, and you should see in there both, right, the SB1 for Indy 6, which is coming online. So if there's some questions there about employment and jobs and stuff affiliated with it, we can answer that. And then there's also in front of you for Indy 3. And the separation, you'll see the Indy 3, there's a schedule attached there. We can talk a little bit about that. I think the economic development team encouraged them to put a couple of different options in there for you to see. the difference between what was the original request over 10 years and of course some of the gaps and issues and uncertainty that that caused and what we took to heart when When council members in particular were suggesting how do we reduce that number and do it in a meaningful way? That's still in part of this is a partnership with us of course working with the county I know there's been some conversation about even reducing it maybe as far as three years and we can talk through some of the specifics there in our estimation for both the county and for us the three year isn't necessarily the best option either and What it does is it would, in order for the request to go through and for the economics of it with the depreciation schedules and all the rest that goes with it, the county wouldn't see any revenue in year one and would not see a lot in year two. What we're proposing is 50%, five over five, so 50 over five. That gives the county in year one the revenue that you need, and still helps us cover the specifics that we need for the investments that we've made with the jobs that are provided, and then, of course, the depreciation schedules and stuff. Greg, do you want to? address some specifics on there say I've been holding a question.

I didn't want them to come all the way from Arkansas and not have a chance to talk.

Well, in fairness, they were in Lansing, Illinois late last night for a similar hearing on a store we have there and we're kind enough to then jump in a car drive down here to be with you all this morning before we send them back to Bentonville. So.

So our proposal, initially, when we proposed this, we had a 10-year, the standard abatement, 10-year, 10% decline year over year. What we're coming up with now is five-year, 50%. And the reason why we think that works in both of our favors is that The first two years, first of all, these are pool two assets, meaning that they're five to seven year asset life. The first two years, after the assets go live, is going to be the highest taxable asset value. So we didn't want to front load this, where it's 100%, 90%, 80%. That just takes away from tax dollars from the county. So with a 50-50 split, for the first two years, where it's the highest taxable value, the county gets half the tax and half of our taxes abated. And it's the same proposal for the second facility, IND 6, our non-swimmable facility.

I guess, for me, knowing that Walmart is As big as they are and I pulled your SEC filings for Q4 of last year and Q1 of this year that you're a $5.49 billion company making basically $61 million a day that there's a need for an abatement at all that you very well could take care of yourself and it would not affect anything For you to do that for the amount that you're requesting and what you're going to receive from it So I guess I just have a hard time swallowing.

Well When you do the math, I appreciate the numbers. We're also talking about 2.1 million associates We're talking about billions of dollars of investment.

Are you telling us that if you do not get this personal property abatement?

You're not going to what I'm telling you is that in addition to our corporation and the requests that you have before you all as a body I We're not the only ones that are watching what you're doing and watching what the other 91 counties in Indiana are going to be doing as well. For business development, for local agreements, for partnerships and for growth. That's why I like and what we hear in good faith specifically to address why the 10 year doesn't work. The holes that are in it, the uncertainty that it provides for you, but it also to come up with a meaningful compromise that we feel works both for us as the largest employee in the county. but also for you as county officials that have obligations to your taxpayers as well. And of course, the better the county does, the better our associates that live here do. So it's absolutely a win-win situation for us, and that's where we want to be. But the economics of this doesn't just apply to a Fortune II corporation. The decisions that you make are going to apply to any other corporation, any other entity, any other developer that wants to come to Hancock County to find out what you're able to do to help growth and economic development here in the county.

I'd like to see it.

we're not the only ones that are gonna be watching what you all do to work.

I agree with that, yes. But I'd also, especially since the EDAs have kind of been pushed to the wayside, is that under the incentives packages, it's sometimes companies asking for us to do certain things, or you're selling the idea of this abatement, but we're going to give, and you list incentives that you have decided to do, and you did not put any on the application, So most of those contributions that you're talking about is just in talking. You've not made a monetary commitment to amplify or Buck Creek Fire or any of those things that could be written as an incentive on your application to make it more appealing.

Yeah, and to be clear, there's a difference between what we're talking about with Indy 3, which is currently operational and being expanded, versus what we've done with the building that we just purchased, which, and that was part of the, I think, why we had the vote a week or two ago about whether we were in compliance or not in compliance, because we don't have associates in there. We don't have a general manager in place. We're still in the phase of that. So one of them is definitely way forward looking with the Indy 6 application that you're referring to. And one is currently what we have ongoing with the Indy 3 conversation that we're having simultaneously.

Yeah, and just to add, you mentioned Buck Creek Fire. So we actually gave them a grant last year to actually help renovate their air systems in their truck garage, right? And so we continue to have a good relationship with those folks in that organization. But again, when we look at who we are able to give grant money and why we give it to, it's all to our locals, right? I wouldn't give grant money to Joliet, Illinois, because that's just where I moved from. Makes no sense, right? We have those relationships and those folks are right down the street. We always have a good relationship with them. We want to take care of them, right? So That's just an example. It may not be on the application, but that was done last year to help them with their ventilation system.

And I'm not so much interested in just the grants that you can give as requested to, but the actual commitments that you may have made or will make with this abatement to certain entities, whether it be a school or wherever.

And to be clear on that, just... We have been here in Hancock County for 38 years. The first store was open in 1988. The store was then moved and expanded. Then we did the Sam's Club facility. We've done the recycling facility. Now we've done Indy three. Now we're moving on to Indy six. We're fully committed to the county. We are fully committed to the state and we're going to do everything that we can do to be good corporate citizens. Period. We're not going anywhere. We're asking you to help us with our investment that we're making for you and our associates that are here in greater Indianapolis that work every day and have great jobs. Now, in fairness as well, we can't discriminate. We can't say thou shalt live in Hancock County. It doesn't work that way. We have, and correct me if I'm wrong, Chair, we have, I think, two associates that come in from Ohio to his facility. We have an associate that comes from Tennessee. And I alluded to that when we talked last time I was here in my former role in Dallas and Houston. These are good jobs. And when you have associates that live in Houston, Texas, that drive all the way up to Dallas for these jobs, or if we have associates coming from Ohio to come to Hancock County or an associate coming from Tennessee, these jobs matter. They're good jobs. They provide a career. They provide benefits. They provide all the things that you want us as a good corporate citizen to provide to your constituents. And that's what we're here doing.

Is this SB1 for Building 6 or Building 3?

What's the investment amount?

$440,000.

440 is IND 3, the fulfillment. This is IND 3.

I don't think I have one for 6.

No.

Yeah, there's just the one, so... We only have one that's why oh and then I have questions um We're talking about the three year and five year a year ago when I got a tour I met with a lot of you and we talked and I explained how three year 50% That's where I was more leading instead of the five year 50% And so could you go through? And we talked and you said, oh, can I present the five-year? I was like, yeah, yeah, that's fine. You guys can present five-year. I'm personally three because I'd rather you keep coming back and saying, hey, here's what we're doing. We'd like an extension of another three years. So I think that's the real question I have is why can't you do three years, come back, versus five years and maybe never come back, I guess. So I guess that's the real question.

I mean, with investment that's already in place or the investment that we're undergoing right now, I can't envision a scenario where we'd come back and ask to extend it. We're creating the new jobs now. We're creating the new investment now. So now's the time to ask for the incentive and ask for the years. So I can't see a scenario where we come back three years down the road and ask for an extension on assets that are already in the county, on jobs that are already created. I mean, that's just, that's not our... That's not how you guys do it? Yes, sir.

So, in other words, then the building, you know, the tax evasion guy for the building, you'll probably never come back and say, we want another one, so we stick around.

Yeah, so I'll... I'll use IND3 as an example, because when we constructed that facility, it was about two-thirds occupied with automation. We had a lot of vacant space, and that's what you're seeing now. So I want to differentiate with IND3. It wasn't a plan of asking for 10 years on the first abatement and then come back. At the time of that first construction, I don't know if the business was contemplating how much additional investment that we were going to make. This half a billion dollar investment is because the technology is proven. And we see the opportunity, we see the gaps that we can fill with our cubic volume, with our throughput. So that's where we're coming back for IND3. I just want to make sure I clarify that. That is a scenario where we did come back, but that was a separate investment inside a vacant part of the building. I lead Walmart's tax incentives team. I've yet to go to community and say, if you don't extend our agreement another year, we're going to leave. That's bad. Because we saw that with Elanco here.

That's what killed everybody. Everybody got ticked off. And then Indianapolis comes swooping in and stealing them, essentially. And that's not what I want to see again is you guys keep bouncing around versus, you know, and I guess that's the question. So I appreciate that answer, knowing that you're not going to keep coming back.

My question may relate to that a little bit. I finally have some time to geek out as someone who has a little bit of knowledge of accounting and finance. But looking at these, you're not asking for that much. So like with SEA 1 and 2031, homestead properties in Indiana will get 66% taken off of their value. So essentially a reduction in their taxes. So I like the fact that it's 50% year one is less than what homeowners are going to get. But looking at the overall, the math shows of 88 million in taxes, Walmart's gonna pay 76 million, which I think you answered part of that, that by doing 50% year one versus 100%, we're going to capture a lot more value. But I think similar to Scott's question, I mean, you guys actually aren't asking for that much. So does that mean you are making a statement here and really wanting to put down these roots and stay committed to Hancock County? Because that's on the surface that just as a numbers, you know, I think we have a lot of things to consider as elected officials. But just on the numbers, you guys aren't actually asking for that much.

Yes, sir. So I come from the state of Kansas, born and raised, where we have a saying, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. So we don't want to come in and asking for more than our share. So I think one other thing I wanted to clean up, because you mentioned recent legislation, SB1 got rid of the property tax depreciation floor. But with these assets, our models align with the... financial consultant that the county hired to model out the benefits. There still is a floor. These assets are going to be placed in service. We intend to use them for an extended period of time. There's a 30% floor that's going to be applied. Plus, we saw a note in the analysis that this is within a TIF area that also reinforces a 30% floor. So, yes, we are asking for 50-50 for five years. But these assets are going to be in place, and there's going to be consistent value for beyond five years. Let's see.

And then while I do have you, I'm going to ask, I really like the investment Walmart made in Fort Wayne 10 years ago with the dairy processing plant. Over 50% of Indiana corn goes towards livestock production. I think the last I read that facility can process 400,000 gallons of milk a day. So that's directly impacting... corn farmers here in Hancock County, but what do we need to do locally for Walmart's next investment here to be ag-related? Because I think, Eric, you said you guys just did something in Texas, but for you guys to be back before us next time, I want to see it ag-related.

That we did here in Indiana, I think it was just about March of this year, we just opened the second one, or I'm sorry, the third one, which is in Texas, just kind of southwest of the Dallas area. Again, my former community relations gig, I kind of knew where that was. But one of the other things you'll see on that sheet that I passed out that doesn't get talked about a lot are the supplier jobs that go along, and you've kind of alluded to some of that. What we do for supplier jobs here in Indiana, what we do for other suppliers that are here in the county, folks that you all work with, as you said, We're not flying steel fitters in from Batonville, Arkansas to hang steel in this building to get ready for this. These are local jobs that we're providing with local organizations.

Yeah, I just wanted to add on the concern about moving, right? That building is the biggest building in the entire country, right? It does, I'm not going to quote the percentage, but it does more volume than 14 buildings in the country combined, right, out of one facility. And it's in your guys' county, right? All these investments, all these asks are because we are invested permanently in this location. We would not be spending an additional half a billion dollars if we were thinking six weeks down the road, we're just going to move. It's not like renting a condo. Don't like this one? We'll go six feet to the left. These jobs, these investments are in this county for all the great things that you guys have helped with. as well as all the great partnerships that we already have established. So I just wanted to add some clarity there.

I think you guys are going to stay. I just want to be, I want Hancock County to be first on the list for your next milk processing, if you get into the ethanol, gas business, whatever ag-related investment you make next, I want us to be first on the list.

I'll write that down.

We'll make sure we're talking with your economic development director and the Amplify folks and everybody else about the next opportunity for us as well. Did you have this stuff for the Building 6? Yes, so I think that was part of the schedule that was turned in, that there were two separate. There's an Indy 3 request, 50 over 5, and a mirror that the Indy 6 one would also be 50 over 5 as well. So those are the two that we're asking your support on.

Okay, so somehow it didn't make it into our package.

I have one comment for you guys, and then I want to ask a couple clarifying questions of our financial advisor. The one time I'd met with representatives of your company before, I just wanted to point out that people move here. and you are on the outskirts of Indianapolis, you could almost throw a stone at the county line. And so when I asked a year ago, what charities do you support? You guys had a long list, but a lot of them aren't technically inside Hancock County. They don't predominantly serve Hancock County. So they are closer to you physically than where we sit today, but they're not within county boundaries. So as you think about being philanthropic in the community, just being mindful that you guys are all the way on one side, but the taxpayers that we represent who are agreeing to tax discounts actually go very far this way.

And at that point, just again, an example of our commitment, not only to the state, but also to greater Indianapolis as a whole. You all are the first that are going to hear this, but we have an announcement that we're doing tomorrow with the Indiana Chamber of Commerce and their foundation, specifically for workforce development here in Indianapolis. And it's a long-term commitment. And, of course, our goal, selfishly, is going to be our friends over at Maid and Plainfield and our friends here in Amplify to be as aligned with that as they can possibly be as that continues to move forward. But the Indiana, to be clear, the Indiana Chamber Foundation will be doing the re-granting that they do. And they've got a number of groups for this first initial grant that'll be announced tomorrow. The goal for us is making sure everybody's aligned with what we're doing in the future. It goes back to what he's talking about and what Greg talked about. We're committed. We're here. We're not going anywhere. We're asking you to help us continue to invest in this county and your constituents who are our associates and our customers.

And I realize you're a global company, so to even be boiling it down regionally is really getting in the weeds, and we're asking you to go even further, but just to be mindful. And Greg... I just wanted to clarify, so these assets are in the TIF district. Historically, we declined a lot of personal property tax abatements on the basis of we want these tax dollars to go to the underlying taxing units, we want them to skip the TIF. Will the TIF capture these dollars because of the nature of having an abatement? Or will they pass through to the school and the fire department?

So this is personal property subject to check. You do not capture personal property in your TIF district.

I just want to make sure that with an abatement, it didn't change how that works.

The only change is, as we heard just moments ago, the 30 at this point is the floor in a TIF district.

In a TIF district?

Not 10 if you were outside of a TIF district.

Okay. And so if the TIF ever were to expire, which won't happen within the terms of this abatement, then your floor, assuming today's law remains, would drop to 10 from 30?

If the TIF district went away, probably, yes, which would be many, many years from now.

And then a question for them again, but the use life of this equipment surely it's not 30-year technology, right? I mean at some point it has to be replaced or Is this equipment gonna last forever?

Um, you can treat the skeletal, like, have you ever been out to any three? I'm sorry.

I've not.

Okay. Um, think of, I call it a giant PEZ machine, right? So it's a lot of steel uprights and then the robots move freight around to bring to our associates, those steel uprights and all the iron that's hanging there, all permanent, right? That's not going anywhere. You have wearable parts on the robotics. So wheels, electronics go bad, things of that nature, right? I have 800 extra, we call them shuttles, 800 extra robots in my facility right now, just as things break, just as things have wearable usage. So all of the main investment and all the parts and all the things that we're building, none of that is going anywhere. We do have wearable parts that we then purchase more of just to keep everything running.

So you don't expect to replace the full, the full pieces of equipment in the next five or 10 years or anything?

No, not at all. I mentioned it when I first started as a more visual person. Think about when you go to the airport and you're at TSA and you grab the gray bin and you set it down and you put your stuff on it. And then the TSA is automated system kind of rolls it forward and then rolls it down. And then eventually you go through and pick your stuff back up and head to the gate. Right. What they have going inside there is 2.2 million square feet of tubs about that size that are just, they're flying up and over and down. It is literally mind-blowing to see it in action. And we certainly, I know Scott has been there and Jim, you've been through and a number of you have. Anytime you want to come lay eyes on what they're doing in there, you are absolutely invited to come see it because it is, almost breathtaking when you see it.

Excuse me. We only have one SB1. I know, that's what I mentioned before.

Today's information only.

So all I've got is an application, SB1 for building three. We don't have anything for building six unless they have to give to us.

Well, the last comment I was going to make, because I was not here when the vote took place last year at a joint commissioner's meeting, but for the public as well that doesn't have all this in front of them, last year what was proposed was in the first 10 years, it would have been basically, I'm rounding, 13 million taxes paid to save 19 and a half million in incentives This proposal now significantly reduced just on that equipment without the second SB1 is paying 22 million with a discount of 8.8. So for the public listening, this request is substantially reduced to what was requested last year. yeah that's kind of what i was referencing too last year i had said publicly although i wasn't here for the vote that i liked the math on the three year the three year uh last year would have been pay 24 million and get 8.4 million off and pay 24. So now that they've reduced the schedule, the ask is pay 22 million and the discount being 8.8 million plus when you add in the other building, that's another five and a half million. So for people who are following verbally last year and are following verbally again, this is not a reiteration of the same ask. This is a substantially reduced request with additional equipment on top yeah thanks for you said it much better than my question earlier this packet dated 2025 i looked at this very hard last year and so i'm i'm comparing it closely well i appreciated it no i wasn't you know we said five you said five we said no we said three

You said no last time, but I appreciate the fact now that you've come back with 50% for five years or maybe three that I feel like you're trying to at least work with us and negotiate instead of just coming in and saying, hey, this is it, you know, that you are interested in working with us.

And I mean that sincerely, like truly on behalf of our entire team. That's our goal is to work with you all. come up with a good agreement, we know that's going to be best for us, for our investors, for the equipment and our associates, but for what you need to do in being good stewards of your taxpayer dollars here. So we do think it's a good compromise, but Mr. Chairman, in respect for you, I mean, you all gave us an hour. We are very grateful of it. We're about three minutes before that. We are happy to stay as long as you all want us here. I just wanted to keep you aware of that. Our schedules are at your disposal, but to be respectful for other hearing those watching at home, if you need to move on to us, we get it. You're fine.

Yeah, I'd like, do you have a card? I do have one more question for Greg Garitas. So Greg, can you clarify? The money will not be captured by the TIF on this personal property. It will pass through in standard proportions to underlying taxing units, which will include the township, i.e. Buck Creek Fire, Mount Vernon Schools, the county. Is there any...

No, that should be correct.

So if this were to receive support, we're talking about just under $28 million over 10 years. We're talking about $77 million approximately over 25 years. And those are the three entities that would capture that revenue.

And of course, Keely, what happens is this goes into the overall A.V., The AV, if we are isolating only to this, then that AV would increase by that amount. It would be applied times their tax rate, depending on their situations, you know, and the maximum levy growth quotient. All of those details, you know, we'd go through in budgets. You can't say, don't go to Buck Creek and say, you're going to get $500,000 more every year. Well, you know how that doesn't always work out because of the AV and the growth quotient.

Well, and when they move, as they say they intend to, from the levy-based system to the rate-based system in the years to come, would this more than likely just substantially reduce the rate of the township rather than capture...

No, because remember, the levy base to the rate base is on LIT, or local income tax. It is not on property tax. What this will technically help is us not rushing to a $3 tax rate as fast. More AV would keep the $3 tax rate at...

out there in the future longer. And wouldn't you say, Greg, I know backdoor conversations by I know all of the school systems is they eventually are going to go for referendums to increase their So this would lower the tax rates so that it would help school referendums.

Well, so school referendums is a little different piece, but more AV would mean they're, regardless of whether they're in the TIF or not, they will get their referendum on the AV. So if AV goes up, yes, it means my assumption is more referendum dollars for the school. Right. Yeah.

Or they could ask for less cents per hundred to accomplish their goals.

Sure. But what you do is you ask for the referendum rate, and then when the abatement rolls off, more AV comes in. So I made the assumption you're not revisiting each year the referendum rate. It is driving the referendum rate revenue. You with me?

I am. Okay. Because that 17 cents up there ended up panning out to, they thought they needed 17 cents, but there was so much growth in inflation that 17 cents wasn't what they thought it was. It grew. So this would, in effect, potentially make the referendum need lower in terms of rate.

You would hope or it will provide more revenue.

Yes.

And unfortunately the school board doesn't come and ask you how to help them do their budget, which would probably help them lower too, but you know.

Okay.

There's one other negotiation going on. I do want to make sure to mention that I don't know if it's Eric's boss's boss's boss, but the former CEO of the Indiana Agribusiness Council, now works in government relations for Walmart. So I have reached out to her and she has responded, asking potentially for a mural on the side of Walmart's building. Or some type of other decoration. So I just bypassed Eric and said I'm going straight to the top and asking.

One last comment. The trouble with murals, particularly public facing, is you'll have a lot of constituent opinions on what was painted on the side of a very large building.

Well, when I worked in marketing, I'm sure it's going to be very difficult to not just put the Walmart sign, but I at least am asking the question.

I'm going to take a point of personal privilege. My colleague, Ivan, who does our government affairs in Texas, just got done because you can't have signage on top of buildings in Arlington. But when you fly over... Mr. Jones is Jerry World there in Dallas. We have a store basically in the parking lot of the Cowboy Stadium. Let's just say there is now a very interestingly set solar panel on top of that Walmart building that looks very similar to our Walmart Spark. So there is always a way. There's a workaround. on that and take it under advisement. I don't know if that'll be for the Budget Committee, but Chairman, we'll defer to you on that one, okay? Okay.

Randy, did you have one? I had one thing.

I'm going to take Trevor to the woodshed here in public based on something that you brought up, and I kind of looped Marion on this one. So he's new to the area. He's been, what, maybe six months? Three and a half. Yeah, he said he lives in Fishers. He lives on the north side of 1000 North. He lives about a mile from you. He lives in Belmont.

Oh. One of my best friends lives in Belmont.

But that's not Fishers.

I'll give you his name. He'll talk your head off.

So the point is, I guarantee you he knows where Wolfie's is. Because he meets me there. But he's going to be connected. People say Fishers, there's this blob of area. It's like, well, he's at the very southern edge of Fishers. I'm sorry he doesn't live across the road, but I'm going to make sure he's engaged in every doggone thing and knows about all the local organizations. So I'm going to push him a little bit. And you live just outside Fortville is where you live. That is true. We'll give them to go buy food here.

I think that's my biggest concern or want is to see community involvement with the size of your corporation, large commitments to certain entities. That's kind of, that's what I'm striving for. Totally agree. Everybody being proud that, well, look what Walmart donated for this festival or look what Walmart did for Amplify or, you know, that's where I want to see some engaging substantial involvement in in hancock county and and like keely said i think you said it was hancock county is bigger than the west side yep and that we do find those other places that have things going on that you could help with yeah absolutely and i think what's also they just gave two hundred dollars uh yesterday to uh kiwanis

That counts. So Jim and everybody else, we don't have this currently scheduled for, because we usually do, we allow public to speak sometimes before we do the vote. When do we want to schedule the vote on this abatement?

Well, you're going to have two, right? You're going to have declaratory. They just brought the second one out.

The second one was applied on February 5th, 2026. Two. It'll be two buildings. Yeah, ID 3 and 6.

Yeah, ID 3 and 6. You'd like to do it next week, right?

Is that an extra declaratory?

Yeah, for a declaratory at the meeting next week.

Okay. We'll extend our time, which is fine.

I won't be here this week.

Okay. And Jim, you said building, and it's actually personal property. Yeah. In the buildings. Yeah, I'm just identifying the building that goes in. Given the other things, we want to be technically correct. Thank you, Greg.

No, I won't be here next week. My daughter and I take a trip every year, and we leave Wednesday of next week.

And then the confirming, assuming the declaratory passes would be the first Wednesday of October?

Yes, and that would be a required public comment. This one, you know, usually we allow on the second, the one I run, the county council meeting, I allow public comment at the end. I will move it up to before we do the vote because most of the public comments can be about that. So we just need the public to, if anybody that's listening or here wants to speak on it, they can come and realize they're gonna come and speak the opportunity to speak next week before we do the vote.

And they can always email us or call us or whatever. And Scott, to that, and thank you for bringing up, because when I looked at the schedule, it was a little bit, October's a strange month in that, like, the first is Thursday. So the first Wednesday is... This is the 6th or 7th. Yeah, okay, okay. So that would be the second vote. That'd be the second vote, correct.

I think that concludes everything I need. Thank you for answering the questions.

Thank you very much.

If you don't have a card, I want to write down. I'll give you one. Perfect.

You want a quick break?

Whatever Jim says. Or go on. Whatever Jim wants.

We did have requests for public comment today if we want to do that.

Public comment request.

For what?

For next week's meeting.

Not appropriate for this meeting, I don't think. Let's go on then to the pension with Brad.

No break, okay.

Good morning. I hope mine is much easier than that conversation. That was pretty deep.

You can be pretty deep too sometimes. You can talk about that matrix.

That's pretty well. We won't talk about that. So I'm back again to continue on the conversation with the pension. And so you should have in your packet a piece of paper that kind of explains some things. just right off the get-go as a disclaimer this is just an estimate it's not been done in an actual study so these are estimates and so to get a better understanding we'd have to actually do a study on this and so There's several combinations here. One is with no additional contributions, like there was some discussion on whether putting some lump sums into it this year and next year. So there's one equation that does not do any, and there's another, some equations that also contribute to the lump sums.

Brad, I want to pause and interrupt you. Do we only have one page? Because I think we're missing... That's all we received was one page, but we're aware of a letter.

You didn't get the side of it?

Mine didn't have a back, and I know this because I saw it in advance. Oh, you have it? Yeah. Huh. Okay, mine's odd then. I just want to make sure you weren't missing. I don't have it either. Oh, May doesn't have it either, and that's the most important. No one does. No one does. Robin does.

I do.

Robin does. Do you?

Oh. Yeah.

It's double-sided.

She's special.

She is. You become the vice chair, you know, President Pro Tem, and you're like. Just a reiteration.

I was saying it was my second page.

It doesn't help. Thanks, Robin. I'm glad you had it.

I see who your favorite is.

I know it came. I was like, I know I sent it, so I was like.

We can just pass them on. I always print those sides. Oh, no, not that side. It was only one page front and back, right? Yeah.

There it is.

That's a rich side.

Jim's special, too.

Jim's got it. He's the co-chair of the... Oh, they didn't give it to the other co-chair? Let's give it to one co-chair.

No, I don't have it.

You didn't give it to the president. I sent it to one entity. I don't even think I got a copy of it.

I didn't get the email.

No, because I think what ended up happening to me and Amber started going back and forth.

I don't know how I got that.

She asked me because it was actually... She said, I've got to send this out by noon. It was like 20 till that I sent it to her.

Well, that's why I knew it was missing because he had emailed it to me. I'd seen it, but I was like, where's the rest of it?

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

I'll bet I've got the same thing in the package. Oh, yeah, you brought that, yeah.

Yeah, I brought that.

Did you hear them quite clearly and publicly say...

I don't know, Mary.

Oh, I think that would be. I need more coffee.

I think for the tip, you know, for warehouses and that kind of thing.

They changed the legislation. Hold on.

This is the same page I already had.

They were doing those because the legislation said you couldn't pay police and fire.

No. No. It's not. Oh, it's different?

You can't pay police and fire.

It's similar. Come on, Scott. Your turn. Mine's not highlighted. All right.

You've got to turn your collar.

I'm still half asleep.

Attention to detail.

Okay, sorry to hold up the show, but I knew we were missing a lot of important information here.

It would make much sense if you had all of it.

I don't know if that's the back or not.

Yes, yours is just highlighted.

So the first page of what you should see is the part at the top that says disclaimer that's page one, okay There again reiterating this this is just an estimate based off some past studies and so Reiterating what I said, there's two different types of methods here. One was without any additional contributions, and then on the second page is with the additional contributions this year and maybe next year and some lump sums. And so there was several estimates that were figured out. We had 52 and a 10-year COLA. We had a 52 and a COLA until age 65. And then we had an age 52 and a five-year COLA in both scenarios. And so with that, I know we talked more on maybe looking at a 52 and a five-year to get us to where maybe we can agree on a lower number on the actuarial amount that needs to be put in each year. And so on the first page, you can see a 52 in a five year, we're still at 1.5 million. That's without any additional contributions. And obviously the other numbers are gonna be higher as you go up with the years in the COLA. And then you can also see the minimum, which is generally speaking, you know, every year we always put the recommended amount in that, for the budget piece anyway. You can go down to the minimum and, you know, obviously it lowers that number, but we're still at a five-year, at 52-year-old, you're still at 1.4 in that. And so if you go to the second page, this is where we talked about maybe doing some lump sums this year and next year. And he calculated in there and he has a 2.5 and he used it as a totality and total not basically separating it out. And you can see those values. Obviously, they're going down because it's a five-year COLA versus a 10. And plus, you also, you know, you've included, you know, these lump sums. If you look at the age 52 and the five-year with the lump sums, you know, that puts us at 1.244. There again, these are just estimates recommended. And then you get down into the minimum, 52 and five years, you know, you're looking at 1.144. 1,172,000. There again, an estimate. And so I think this gets it closer to some of the conversations we had to where we'd be a little bit more comfortable maybe doing it. But in order to obviously get a more definitive number, we'd have to do a study. And so we're trying to get past doing multiple studies. We've done several so far. I'm trying to get down to where if we can come up with... this is the one we could agree on, then I would rather have them do a study on one versus five or six because it becomes costly in doing so. I don't know if I need to explain anymore.

Brad, just to remind us, the retirement age right now is 55.

It is 55, yeah. And so we're trying to reduce that. We originally talked about 50, but we brought it up to 52. And so, yeah, that reduces it a few years, which will help.

And I was just looking through here, and I didn't find my past stuff, but... We are contributing to the recommended, the 15-year amortization, right?

That is correct. You're 20. Yes, you are. So this year... Based off of what it would be, what we currently have budgeted for, is that valuation number at the top? Yes.

427. Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

I think we've done the recommended for a couple of years. I'm pretty sure when I started, we were doing the minimum, but we've been doing the recommended for multiple years now.

We would reduce the... I think we were doing the recommended, but we reduced it by the amount of the warrant.

That's right. That's right.

So now we just add the warrant stuff to the number. Yeah.

Plus, Jim, didn't we add one million?

Yes. We did. We added a million. What, two years ago? Yes. Yes.

And just so everybody knows, so after the last meeting, Brad and I scheduled a call with the actuary and said, look, we don't want to pay for 15 more studies if possible. But what we're trying to get at is wrapping our heads around the math of if we did have some extra money to do some one-time contributions for a year or two, how much would that impact the result of the ongoing annual recommended and minimum counting contributions? And when he used two and a half million, we didn't suggest that the county could do that all at once. It was like, what if the county could, over a couple of years, make some extra deposits? And he said, since he did this complimentary and didn't charge us and do a full study, he said, I'm going to use two and a half million all at once up front because it's not going to change the math that much whether you split it into 24 months instead of 12 months. it wouldn't move the the needle that much so for illustration purposes the second page shows two and a half million we'll call it in in short order but not necessarily all in a year And so I guess, you know, Brad and I, we went through this. He sent us this. The guy did recommend before you make any final decisions, I would recommend purchasing another full study on whatever approach it is you think you want to take so that you have the actual, you know, documented study in hand. But this is going to be very close. And so we're at the stage now of finding out how everybody feels about this or any of these numbers you could be comfortable with on an ongoing basis. How much willingness is there to do some one-time? Contributions for a year or two for the sake of getting that annual number down and finding out how people feel about it But for me additional contribution 2.5 million with the 52 and five-year call would be fine You'd be fine with that doing two and a half million over a year or two and then I

I support that. I mean, the number one thing I hear from people is public safety. The second one is getting more people from Hancock County to stay here and knowing we're probably going to be hiring more people. I think this is the number one tool that we have to help not only Sheriff Burkhardt, but the future incoming sheriff attract and retain sheriff's deputies. So I think it's a smart move on our part. It's the number one. even more so than tax abatements and data centers. The number one thing I hear is public safety.

It is. Any other comments on these amounts specifically for or against?

Did you get a differential between the age and the COLA?

Well, we had already had age 52 by itself. And with no additional contributions, it was in the ballpark of 1.2 something million. Just do age 52, no COLA. Do I remember that right?

Yeah, we have so many, I don't know.

You do have it. We talked about it. You do have it in writing from a prior meeting. I'm going from memory here, so don't quote me, but we were over 1.2 million to reduce it to 52 with no additional contributions.

Yeah, I think you're correct, yes.

Maybe 1.244 or something.

And also, FSG, from the standpoint, if we were trying to come up with two and a half million, let's say from the general fund,

Not the general fund, food and beverage and income tax, right?

Well, and what I suggested over two years, I would not do 2.5 in one slot.

No, no. We talked about like a million and a half this year and a million next year was what we threw around.

And you and I even talked about that. Yeah. And so... From... The food and beverage and possibly income tax, but subject to check. And I said what we wanted to do, pardon me?

Income tax. Edit.

Edit or something like that. Yeah, and what I wanted to do is update. What I told Keely was we need to update our sustainability for the final budget and then show you the picture.

Yeah.

I am concerned that the general fund is getting depleted in 26 and 27. So keep that in mind. And again, it'll be real dependent on the interest income and where that slides in at.

Yeah, and we do have to consider the fact that this is money in the bank making interest that won't make interest income that we've had in sustainability projections, guessing the rates, of course. But we have to hope that the pension investment portfolio does well enough to be of more value in offsetting our annual contributions in the future than the standard interest rate that we'd be receiving in-house. Exactly. Yeah. With the full financial disclaimer at the bottom, past results are not indicative of future performance, but that's what you hope, right? That this works for us to meet these needs later.

I mean, there's certainly risk, but I think this is where I'm willing to take a risk and we'll make hard decisions later if we have to, but public safety is number one on people's mind right now.

The last thing we want is to get into a scenario where we're not gaining any ground on getting this current that if we don't stay on top of it. So I think we have to start looking at those lump sum commitments.

Robin, do you have anything to add? No, I agree with Mary because I was here when we got way behind and that was not good.

Yes.

So we want to be sure that we do some of it up front.

So it seems like there's support for further exploring lump sums with 52 and a five-year COLA. They wanted 50 and 10 years of COLA. We're meeting in the middle. I think to me what makes the most sense is that the next thing we need to do is look at Greg's sustainability projection with that in there to make sure that doesn't change our openness to it. And assuming we're okay with the sustainability, we can also go ahead and get started asking for the actuarial study, not the estimate, but the actuarial study. And given how long that takes, you could probably go ahead and... and get that finalized while Greg works on sustainability. And then once we look at both of those official documents, we could move forward with decision making. Does everybody feel good about that?

Is there one of those that would absolutely move the needle of moving from 52 to 50 or a five to 10 year COLA? Or is it half of the folks would? I think that's what you're going to find out.

Your younger generation, you know, they're not so much on the cola piece. They're worried about the 52. And the older guys are worried almost on the cola. So it's, yes.

Let's say this. Those that showed up to the meeting all wanted cola. Okay.

So they're the ones that really, really are concerned.

Yes.

But 52 and 5 is definitely a much improvement from where we are.

And I think you kind of mentioned it, too. As we try to, you know, bring in new candidates to the sheriff's office, you know, this is another selling point to bring in candidates, you know, to look at these. Because, like, the city's 52, but they're all on police and fire perf, which is not as good as our retirement. And so that just adds more fuel to the fire to be able to bring good candidates here. Because if you show that, then they're going to maybe come here versus, you know, a municipal.

When you tell a 23-year-old cost of living adjustment, like in one ear and out the other, you know what I mean? Age 52, you can retire is all they hear. And then, like you said, if you're trying to get a lateral transfer to fill an open spot with somebody that already has eight or 10 years of service and is in their 30s or 40s, they care more about that COLA than the 52. So we're trying to do a little something for everybody if we can.

And this would not affect the percent funding. That's the other thing that if we're trying to do something for the whole retirement program, we need to work on getting the funding percent up also. This doesn't affect that.

Well, if you did it without making additional contributions, it would. If you enhance benefits and don't do lump sums up front, you are funding your pension less because you just increase the liability without increasing the base for it. But this would be intended to keep progressing towards, and like Greg brought up, we did do an extra million dollars in 2023. Yeah. But anyway, it was great market timing. If you go back and look, when we did that extra million, the S&P 500 had fallen like 20% in the first quarter of 2022. We did a million not all that long after, so we had great timing on that.

That was Kent, right? Market timing.

Oh, no, no. We've been talking about it being over target balances. We had talked about making it a priority for a while and then it just ended up good timing. But does anyone have any other questions? Greg, you'll let us. When do you think you would have? First of October, first week of.

Probably for the next budget committee meeting.

The sustainability. OK, and you want to get back with the actuary about firming up 52 and five.

Starting this year.

Okay. For? For the reduction. Right, for two or three years. Well, this projection was on two and a half is the reason I asked. So if you come back with two and we're telling the actuary two and a half, like I want the numbers to match.

Yeah, let's say two. One per year for the next two years, including this year.

For 26 and 27? Yes. Yeah.

Because my assumption is that's what we want to get. The market will probably fall. The answer is we'll try and put it in this year.

Okay. Will you ask them to do one and one then?

One and one. Okay. Okay. All right.

I'm hoping that won't, it's 500,000. I don't know that with these 20-year amortizations, it's going to move this annual number substantially, but.

Okay. I can do that. I appreciate everybody. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. We're going to miss you.

I'm sorry?

We are. We're going to miss you.

I'll be around.

I guess I won't because I won't be here either. I will. I'll miss you. You can miss us from home. Yeah.

Jim and I. Nope. We're still looking for a security officer for Amplify?

Can Jim and I partner on that?

Yeah. Want to be an Amplify officer?

Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Yep. Greg, do you want to summarize my statement?

Oh, let's go through it.

So, you know, we had our first must meeting going to have. Yeah. We had our first must meeting. Make sure that's only one. Okay. Thank you. Actually, he's the one that needs educated.

Did you get that meeting minutes? Yeah. Please.

I will. You repeat that for the record. Thank you. He's going to come back and tell you.

I was going to say, petty's from heaven.

So that went really, really good, I think, Scott.

And so we got a lot of great input. We'll be moving to our second meeting. Our second meeting, we'll hopefully get some input from Lori Elmore and the city of Greenfield. And so once we get that input, we'll kind of start formulating our report. I've been doing a bunch of these meetings, and we've been going through the numbers, and that's what I want to take maybe some time here and educate you on the numbers, and Tate's gonna take us through it, and then say we need to come to an agreement, okay? And Scott's gonna be the voting member for the entire county council on the non-binding, non-whatever conclusion we come to. I am warning most of my clients that I do not believe we should put an absolute number for Hancock County for their county services because what Tate will show you is maybe we need about .75 or something like that and the cap is 1.2 And as Jim made me go through a gymnastics about a year ago showing how much LIT we need for future capital items that we've got coming, we were above the cap of 1.2. So I'm afraid if we put an actual number, somebody may come back and say, guess what your new cap is. Okay. It is now 75 basis points and you would have just created, you would have a non-binding document that bounds you by someone, some other party. Okay. So I'm gonna caution you on that. And I've seen people putting numbers attached to the agreement. In Hendricks County, we're not going to put numbers. We are saying we do not have enough information. We've already written the paragraph and we need further information before we can actually assess where we're at. But let's not worry about the agreement yet. Let's worry about, and Kate's gonna take you through the numbers. Go ahead.

All right. Hi, Tate Parnin, FSG. I work for Greg. We'll go straight to page one, and this is gonna show the 2027 estimated local income tax distributions. These were released early last month, August 2nd, for next year. And what we're really focusing on here when it comes to the rest of the report is that final column, the total distribution in the bold. That's going to show what each unit, the county, the townships, the towns, the schools, the libraries are getting or expected to get in local income tax next year. What it doesn't include on here is the property tax relief credit as it is understood that is going away with the new lit structure. I do have a quick question. Yeah.

Since Ashton's back there, I see Fortville Public Library. Sure.

But I know Vernon Township reports to McCordsville, but... Our name changed in 2022 on the front level, but in the IRS system, it still remains Fortville Public Library, but we are Vernon Township.

Okay. Yes. All right. right thank you yeah well and it's different so if we go to page two it does say vernon township public library of course for our end What it is on page two, this is from LSA Legislative Services. They do a lot of number estimates for the state when they're thinking of making legislative changes. So what we have here was produced last year when Senate Bill 1 was signed as the estimated property tax losses that each unit is expected to receive once these start going through, and that's mostly from the supplemental homestead credit, which is the lesser of $300 or whatever percentage it is at the time.

And that's in your sustainability, that calculation for the county.

And the reason the fire departments are blanked is because they're already accounted for within their townships?

And they don't break it down in that estimate that they gave us. They just gave it for the total unit. But what we are seeing is that, for example, this 2026 circuit breaker, the supplemental homestead credit that came out for Hancock County is not as harsh as they are predicting it to be on this page now. that's probably the case they have to make it look harsher than it actually is but what we're going to use this for is so in essence we believe these are overstated but this is what we're using statewide yes and it is the their document okay and what we're thinking is that a lot of units are going to try to recover these property tax losses with the new lit structure if they can So if we go to page three, this also shows the fire and EMS. This is what we know so far from the data requests that we received from townships or towns or the city of Greenfield and what they are sharing when it comes to lit revenue with their local territory or volunteer department. And so all of this going to page four will get us to our goals for 2029. So what we have done is taken the 27 totals, which was that far right column, we're subtracting or adding the fire. Fire left 2027? I'm talking about from the first page, far right. um we're taking the 27 totals we're either subtracting or adding the fire sharing uh depending on who you are and then adding the property tax losses to try to get a goal that we're that we want to reach when it comes to the 2029 numbers so those goals are going to drive the rates that we have calculated in this report So as a summary page on the next one, we have what we have been able to do.

So we're on page five?

Yes, page five. And so it looks just like the 27 report. Try to make it familiar, but these are the totals that we have tried to get to. The only one that has two different columns that they'll be looking at is Hancock County because they get a portion of that shared municipal rate and it's called the opt-in option, which is the third to the right column.

So remember what the state legislature said was that you need to create a rate for basically the small towns, okay, and everybody here and even city of Greenfield was assumed to be opt-in. What they said is as an enticement on that kind of you get a share of that, the county does. So it goes to the county and it goes to the cities and towns. That's one that I think January, February, March, boys and girls downtown probably will change. Because everybody's like, well, wait a minute. So what we're doing is we're having our county services rate, which you're going to see here in a minute, and we're getting part of our revenue from this. That's kind of confusing. Why isn't it in one bucket or the other? But that's the law at this point.

And you said the reason you think. that the impact will be less than reflected here on this April 9th, 2025 data was because of legislation that passed after or what, or?

No, just that LSA's numbers are higher, are higher estimates.

Than what we saw in the 2026 circuit breaker report comes to the- Yes.

Okay. But they are always, you know, the state, just like when you do your budget, they want you to use 80% of your AV. You know, they push you towards a little more aggressive numbers to keep you safe.

Okay.

Okay. And so on page six, we'll show the rates that we use to get to the page five numbers. And it also shows a comparison of what the rate is this year compared to what we're predicting if we were to use those estimates in 2029. All right.

And so the one thing that most people notice here is the rate would be going up. And so, you know, in essence, first question we've gotten in other places, well, how would we model this if we say no rate increase? Well, that's going to be tough. Then there's going to be winners and losers.

I think the real question isn't that. It's that the county people who don't live in cities and towns are paying for a single municipal rate So it's taxation without representation. Because I can't tell them what to do or how to manage a budget or cut it. I can't run for office and do it myself either.

Right.

That to me should have been the top question everyone asks you.

Yeah. And when I've thrown that back at people from the state, the answer is that is what's happening now. Yeah. Because you are levying on the adjusted gross income.

And unfortunately, these cities and towns, like even especially Fishers, they say only Fishers residents get to park for free in our park. Or here in Greenfield, you get a Greenfield rate if you want to go to the pool, but not county rate, even though county people are paying for it. That's a big problem.

But here, keeping focused on Hancock, we are levying on the county as a whole for Greenfield. in essence, because what we're doing is taking the entire tax rate, our current entire tax rate, times the adjusted gross income, and just dividing it based upon levy, not rate, levy. So in essence, the levy includes money for improvements.

Let me ask you it would disadvantage with the county this body be in financial planning If all the cities and towns opted out into their own Their own city and town tax rate and we just had a county rate for county Services what what's our disadvantage?

So I don't think you'd be in a disadvantage matter of fact you know, I've had several council members say Just have them all. I think Jemmy said that. Jemmy, just let them opt out. Yeah. And create their own factory. Hopefully they do.

I would love it if everybody opt out.

Which, by the way. Probably a reason they won't. I'm hearing it could have a leg or two and be walking right now into some future legislation. So stay tuned. This is going to change January, February, March. But we still have our deadline of getting back to the state by November 2. So what we're trying to do is educate you on the current system. Then we'll re-educate you on the new system come April, May next year.