City Council Legislative Session - workshop

Thank you.

Good afternoon and welcome to the Hampton City Council work session. Madam Clerk, will you call the roll, please?

Councilman Bowman.

Present.

Vice Mayor Brown.

Here.

Councilwoman Campbell. Present. Councilwoman Farabee. Present. Councilwoman Harper. Present. Councilwoman Mugler. Present. Mayor Gray.

Present. And we have a presentation this afternoon, so I'm going to ask the city manager to introduce that presentation. Number one.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor and council members. As we move past the budget adoption and into our summer work session agendas, you'll start to see us bring some meatier topics for you that will take a bit more time and discussion. The first one up this month is on the process of adaptive reuse or what we want to do now that the With Fire Station has relocated. As our Chief Economic and Community Development Officer Leonard Sledge will share, we did have a master plan done many years ago. It's a bit dated, and it had called for one potential pathway forward, but part of that really resulted from the existence of the Wythe Elementary School. And the Wythe Elementary School has since closed and been adaptively reused as a beautiful apartment building. Some of the original assumptions that were embedded in what would happen when the fire station closed are no longer valid. And so we wanted to talk with you all about what you might want to do in terms of figuring out what we do now. Do we keep the building and try to adaptively reuse it, preserving the history? do we move forward with some of the ideas that were embedded in the original master plan or do we do something else altogether so with that as a backdrop i'm pleased to have leonard sledge walk you through the presentation again this is really designed at the end of the presentation to be more conversational for you all so that you can think through what are the next steps you'd like to see us as staff you and the community do together to properly move forward with the old fire station building thank you

thank you ma'am good afternoon mayor gray vice mayor brown distinguished members of hampton city council city attorney sitnor and city clerk ms glass again good afternoon i would like to share with you again to the city manager's point options for the current old with fire station And so it's the adaptive reuse of the building that previously served as the Whiff Fire Station on Kecoughtan Road from 1944 to 1925. There are three parcels that make up the Whiff Fire Station site. It's a triangular shaped site that sits at the bend in the road in the Whiff area on Kecoughtan. The site is approximately 1.11 acres with an existing 7,856 square foot structure and surface parking. This map gives an aerial overview of the location of the Whiff Fire Station. You will see it sits next to the Whiff Pool in Ballfields and on Kecoughtan Road and a short block from Victoria Boulevard. These images show the exterior of the building on all four sides. And in the previously approved Kecoughtan Road Corridor Master Plan, specific to the fire station in this area of the city, it speaks to the relocated fire station and a traffic circle being constructed. We know that we now have the beautiful new fire station on Pembroke, which effectively serves the greater width community. One thing that has not materialized in our capital improvement plan and construction projects is that traffic circle. The master plan also calls for allowing the grounds around the width elementary school to expand, allowing for the construction again of the new traffic circle or traffic square, enhance the aesthetics of the corridor while providing an additional opportunity to publicly celebrate the history and culture of the neighborhood. And also to the city manager's point, since the adoption of the master plan, the school has closed, the property has been transferred to private ownership and adaptively reused as a multifamily residential project unique in nature. And so options for City Council to consider, one, to implement the recommendations in the 2005 Kecoughtan Road Corridor Master Plan. There's also the option of demolishing the existing building and the asphalt and preserving the site as green space on Kecoughtan Road. Or three, we could issue a request for interest or request for proposals for the adaptive reuse of the building and the site. In terms of adaptive reuse, communities similar to Hampton, large and small across the country, have adaptively reused older firehouses. Hampton has previously worked with a developer to successfully adaptively reuse an older shuttered building in alignment with our master plan, and that specifically is the National Guard Armory. It's reused as the Vanguard Brew Pub and Distillery, a great successful project in Hampton's cap. If adaptive reuse of the building is desired, staff would issue a request for interest, request for proposals by no later than August 31st of 2026. And evaluation criteria may include the following, alignment with the city master plan and policies, public benefit and economic impact, qualifications and experience of the development team, the design quality, the financial feasibility, and the demonstrated capacity of the developer to deliver the project, The proposed purchase price and long-term return to the city of Hampton, a realistic development schedule, and also sustainability and environmentally conscious design. And so the decision point for City Council, option A, would you like for us to pursue implementation of the 2005 Kecoughtan Road Corridor Master Plan? Option B, would you like for us to pursue demolition of the building and preservation of the site as green space? Or option C, issuing the request for interest, request for proposals for the adaptive reuse of the building and site? and that concludes our presentation i would like to also extend a thank you to mr travis rash who was previously in the department of economic development and now is on our community development team travis did a lot of work around helping to to frame out a lot of the information in the presentation today while he was in the department so thank you and we're glad to answer any questions that you might have questions for mr sledge councilwoman harper

Thank you Leonard for that wonderful presentation. I just have one question. With the demolition of the building, it wouldn't be, if we decided to demolish the building, it wouldn't be a consideration for something else to go up there? We would have to use it as green space?

no no ma'am i think there's the the option of either oh and so it in one sense to preserve it as green space that is an option another option in terms of issuing a solicitation someone could choose to adaptively reuse the building i don't think we would be opposed to considering uh new development new construction but we're also mindful that the site is 1.1 acres it is a very small site and it is limited in terms of the parking capacity on it as well okay thank you

Vice Mayor Brown.

Thank you Leonard. What's the bones, I mean structurally, is the building sound, the bones of the building sound?

I do not have a structural assessment, Vice Mayor Brown. We do know, I have been, some pictures have been shared with me. There were some longstanding maintenance concerns and issues with the building. And so again, if the desire of council is to move forward with adaptive reuse, then of course we're looking for someone that has the experience and the wherewithal to be able to do that successfully. We have seen buildings again pointing back to the national guard armory building was in very talent in a very challenging condition but successfully was rehabilitated and again producing great for the city i i i would like to see us maybe form or lay some citizens and some partners to talk about reuse

What are some of the ideals thinking outside of the box that may be, you know, good for that site? Yes, sir. It's a historic building. I remember as a little boy, I've been around a long time. And if you notice, of course, the armory had stayed vacant for many years. And then there is a little sandwich spot I like to go to in Fort Monroe. which is one of the oldest 5 states in the nation, I think in the 1800's and they have you know transformed that into a nice little bistro nice little sandwich shop. It's very nice. So I would hope that we would allow citizens to speak to the next use of that don't get it is to remain as a structure. Yes, Sir so recommend that.

Councilman for me.

Thank you Mister mayor and Thank you, Mr. Sledge. If there were an RFI, RFP type of solicitation, what would the timeline be on that? Would it also be similar to the August 31st?

We would look to issue by no later than August the 31st. It really boils down to the depth and the breadth of the information that we will be asking for. I would imagine at a minimum, just based on similarly sized projects, it will be no shorter than three months to allow us to get the word out to the development community, to the commercial community, but also to give them time to formulate ideas and strategies to be able to successfully respond.

OK, thank you. So I'm a little, I think definitely we need community input for the residents, especially in that area, but also I can see a case for first looking to see if there's anyone interested in have some great ideas around keeping the building, but also in parallel, I feel like it wouldn't hurt to put an RFI RFP to get some creative ideas about that unique space. Also making sure that whatever we do and I don't know that what should come first necessarily, but I think it's all we definitely want to get input from the citizens as well.

yes ma'am thank you thank you councilwoman campbell great job thanks do you happen to know if the pool or the ball field need more parking

That question has not been asked by me, ma'am. And so I do not know the answer to that question. Glad to inquire. There's nothing that leads me to believe today. There's nothing that leads me to think today that individuals are not parking on that site when there is a ball game or individuals going to the swimming pool.

and is the power and water on in the building i would need to confer with our facilities team usually leave it on to prevent mold and stuff so it's either we pay the power bill or we pay to clean it up so i'm definitely for um talking with the community and seeing what they want to do thank you ma'am

okay so i guess i i too want to kind of explore the options um just to see you know what a you know person uh similar to the company we work with on the with school and vanguard the old army building just to kind of get some ideas on what the possibilities are and then certainly with you know community input from you know or with neighborhood association and others to uh get some ideas so i mean i don't know that there's a urgent need to move to demolition at this point. And so I think we have time to kind of explore what the what the possibilities are.

Vice Mayor, just one more comment. The marriage kind of jogged my memory on on something. When the with school was re-reuse uh i think multi-family housing yes uh the developer came with the developer's name but he was a specialist in historic kinds of buildings and he maintained the integrity uh at least the facade integrity of the school we may if we think about community being involved if we go to the next step we may want to get somebody with that kind of expertise to kind of help us think more about what that can look like and what ideals that person may have too yes sir thank you

okay councilwoman mugler sorry thank you mr mayor um so based on everyone's comments and uh i just want to wrap my head around are we going to put out the request for proposals and then engage the community um it seems to make sense to me that we see what developers might be interested in doing with the property so that we have some sort of talking points when we go to the community to have a conversation that it might make sense for us to put put it out and then have the conversation about what what ideas have been presented to us just just want some clarification on that

I didn't say that but that was my thought of this sequence of how things would work but anybody else. Vice mayor Brown.

Yeah, I read that mission to me that didn't dimension to order particularly generally we do generally have developed look at it first and then community can chime in. So however that goes that's that's OK with that is just that community look at it didn't particularly the order of it but it would be prudent to have developers to look at it, you know, for us and others' interest and then have community chime in, you know, because what you don't want is something there that the community did not want. Correct. And so we had to be sensitive to that.

So I'll leave it at that. Council is absolutely correct and astute in those comments. because we don't want to get to the end only for the residents in the city of Hampton to say, I don't want that in my backyard. And at the same time, without clarity, without developers having clarity on the front end, they are less likely to put in the time, the effort, and the finances to put forward a proposal. In the instance of what we did with the Vanguard, we actually held developer days at the Vanguard. where we allow interested parties to come out and to get a sense. And so if it is ultimately the desire of city council, and I believe I'm hearing two things, I believe I'm hearing one, absolutely get input and feedback from the community and to explore the adaptive reuse of the building. And so what we absolutely can and are willing to do, working with our community development team, is run a dual path so that we can have the conversation and get a strong sense from the community what's desired in tandem with potential development partners. But I do get concerned about the type of interest we may generate or not generate if we're asking for developers to respond to a solicitation first without having a clear sense of what's desired.

So wouldn't the proposed developer of an adaptive reuse do community outreach as a part of their their programming of what could be there?

Only if we were to require it as a part of a solicitation. It's not a guarantee that they would. Typically, developers would look at master plans, they would look at comprehensive plans, they would look to get a clear understanding on the front end what the locality's desire is for a particular piece of property, a building, or so on. And so, it's not impossible to do it the way that that i'm i'm hearing suggested in terms of identified developers and then have the developer go ask the community but it is it is one where again the concern would be generating interest without a developer having a clear sense of what's desired by that community councilman

I think is to me. I like the idea of reach out to the developers and have that kind of development day that you mentioned which is similar to the process you use for vanguard. I was hesitant to say Tom anything about a timeline if we had to go down the RFI RP route because typically in order to have a strong RFI we have to have a clear vision and I don't think we're in a position to have a an established vision at this point with the master plan situation and all. So I would like to see you move down the path of getting some developers that have that expertise with that type of building first. Yes, ma'am. Get some ideas and weave in as appropriate the community piece. and then if we can't get anywhere then maybe by then we'll have a better you know maybe we'll have a developed enough vision to write an rfi rfp if we need to but i i act i would i would like to kind of rescind the idea of doing rfi rp unless we had to um if it's because it sounds like there's a niche of particular developers that have expertise with this type of building and if it can be restored i'd like to see it restored yes ma'am

Councilwoman Campbell.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The only thing that I would say, I agree with Councilman Farabee, but I want to make sure that it doesn't get out that we're going forward and doing a build. So anyway we can communicate to the citizens that we're talking about this without them thinking that we've gone forward without their input. So however we can make sure that we communicate with them that we're just doing homework to bring ideas to them, that would be great. I think we'd save concern from the citizens ahead of time.

Yes, ma'am. City Manager.

I'm going to try to summarize and see if this is acceptable. Our first step would be to consult with some historic preservationist, like John Garland, which is the developer you were recollecting, Vice Mayor, and see what they think about the building, what they think some of the potentials are. Simultaneously, I would recommend we get on the calendar for the various with neighborhood associations, because there are a couple of them, as you know. and just update them and let them know that what we're doing right now is consulting with some historic preservationist to see what the adaptive reuse potentials might be. And we'll share that information with them. And then we would put out an RFI, RFQ around those concepts. That would allow in that process for anything that the neighborhoods might find absolutely objectionable. And I'm just going to throw something out, not picking on it, but they might say, no nightclubs. And so we could just establish up front in the RFQ, RFI, what we're looking for and what we're not looking for. And then we could be clear. As we're doing that RFI, there's no preset determination we will accept them, but that we're doing the exploration process and we'll go back to the neighborhood. So it's almost like an accordion model of sorts that we build our understanding of what is the proper reuses that can be done with this type of building with the historic preservationists. Then we move to the RFI, but along the way we're keeping the neighborhood informed through those neighborhood civic associations. Does that work for everyone? I'm trying to restate what I heard from all of you.

Councilwoman Farabee.

Thank you, Ms. Mayor. And thank you, Ms. Bunning. Yeah, I think that that pre-peace is kind of the vision and peace. Right. So because that's what whenever our vows don't necessarily go very well if you don't have some sort of revision. So I think that that ties it together for me. Thank you.

I remember I know we need this is final thing but when I talk about community being involved. I want this need to be more structured versus having a community to nobody showed up understood because this is like when you buy a house location location location. This is so sensitive communication communication communication at every point. and so the community know something right this is the proposal and we're asking for your input just because invasion back to some ever Council members and other staff and then you know we will sit down and come back to the community listen these are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, things that we think could be good use of the building. So therefore, nobody said I did not know of not involved but communication is the key here. to to sell it or get buy in and collaborative support. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Okay. So all of that being said, we're not making any decisions on the building today. We're not tearing the building down. We're not doing anything like that. This is just exploring the options of what the next steps could possibly be.

crystal clear okay, thank you everyone all right, thank you.

Mister mayor that concludes our open session items as we have a major item for a closed session today that might take some time.

Okay, so the any regional issues. Is there any new business. All right there being none like ask the clerk to read the motion for closed session.

The motion is to convene a closed session pursuant to 2.2-3711 , and to discuss potential acquisition of real property in the New Market Creek area, where discussion in an open session would adversely affect the City's negotiating strategy and consultation with legal counsel concerning specific legal issues related to the same, pursuant to 2.2-3711 , to consult with legal counsel regarding current and proposed collective bargaining laws and pursuant to 2.2-3711 to discuss appointments as listed in the agenda.

All right. I need a motion and a second. So moved. Second. Call the roll, please.

Councilman Bowman or vice mayor Brown Council on the camp I Council on the air about Councilman Harper I Councilman Butler. They're great.

Okay, we will convene in the loss and conference room at 1.40. And we are adjourned.