City Council - Regular Meeting

Are we online YouTube wise? Okay.

We still got a minute or two.

We're in now. Amazing. All right. All right, friends and neighbors, you're all hot and tired. You're very quiet tonight. Thank you guys so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Thank you all for joining on YouTube. I would like to call the July 14th, 2026 city council meeting to order and welcome everybody. So thank you for being here. At this time, I would love to call up pastor Scott Lawson to give the invocation. Thank you for being here, pastor. Hold on one second. Rene is his, Michael. Sorry. Sorry, Scott.

Yeah. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for the opportunity to be with you. I'm the transitional pastor at Grand Presbyterian Church for another six weeks. So I'm glad to be with you in this capacity tonight. I am a Christian, but I invite us all to pray to God as we understand that higher being. Let's pray. Gracious God, we pause at the end of a busy day and at the beginning of a busy meeting to acknowledge that our lives, our community, and our hopes are all blessings that are larger than ourselves. We give you thanks for the city of Graham, for its neighborhoods, its businesses, its schools, its first responders, its public servants, and every person who calls this community home. We are grateful for those who have accepted the responsibility of serving the common good. Grant wisdom to the members of this council as they deliberate and make decisions this evening. Give them minds that seek understanding, hearts that value justice and compassion, and the courage to do what is right, even when it is difficult. In these long summer days, we know as the dog days, when the heat can wear on our bodies and our spirits, grant us the gift of calm minds and gracious hearts. As the season reminds us, it is easy for us tempers to rise with the temperature, help us instead to be patient with one another, quicker to listen, slower to speak, and eager to seek the common good. Help all who participate in this meeting to remember that every decision affects the lives of real people. Where there are differing opinions, grant patience. Where there are challenges, grant creativity and new vision. where there are opportunities to build a stronger Graham, grant unity of purpose, watch over those who serve our city every day in public safety, public works, education, healthcare, and every vocation that contributes to the wellbeing of our community and neighborhoods. May all that is said and done here tonight contribute to the flourishing of our community and the good of all who live here. Amen.

Amen.

Thank you, Pastor.

At this time, if you could stand, if you're able, for the Pledge of Allegiance.

By the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you all. All right, let's get started. Um, at this point we need to adopt the agenda. I did want to note that we received a request from a community member on 6 22 requesting the following topic be added to today's agenda. That topic is resident committee report to rebuild the sesquicentennial park on courthouse square. Um, I would like to add this agenda item under new business under the barbecue street closure. I don't have any problem with it as long as they appoint one spokesperson. That's my understanding is it's a presentation, not a discussion. One spokesperson. Do I have one more consensus vote on that? Yes. OK. Awesome. All right. At this time, I need a motion and a second to adopt the agenda with that addition.

I make a motion we adopt the agenda with that addition. Second.

All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Wonderful. All right, moving on to the consent agenda. We are approving three meetings worth of minutes. B is to approve a resolution of donating 10 sections to Alamance Community College Fire of Firehose. C is to approve the amended request for the sixth annual Esperanza Festival to include the parking lot of Roasted Coffee Depot. D is to approve the resolution directing the city clerk to put up property for annexation. E is to approve a project ordinance for 3.1 million in capital projects, and this is for the new fire substation and a new fire apparatus. F is to approve and accept a donation for the Graham Parks and Rec Department from Shamrock Nutrition. G is to approve parks and rec street closures for 2027. H is to approve the budget amendment to recognize 26,788 in insurance reimbursement payments to the police department capital outlay equipment account. I is to approve a budget amendment. And this one, Megan, you'll speak on in a minute. I won't say anything else on that one. J is to approve a budget amendment in the amount of $262,214 to be paid to UPS. K is to approve a budget amendment in the amount of $30,000 to transfer federal drug forfeiture revenue to the police department. And L is to approve tax release in the amount of $62.89. Okay.

And the mayor make a motion to approve the agendas written.

Let's hold on one second because I know we've got a couple of questions and Megan's got something to say about I of all that a motion there Ricky thank you.

Yes, on item I for the budget amendment for the purchase of the land owned by Thomas and Linda Stewart, because the proposal is to close after July 1, the amount changes from $335,522 to $336,145, which is an increase of $623, and that's due to prorated taxes. City Council approved the purchase last fiscal year and the budget amendment. However, since the closure did not occur in last fiscal year, those funds rolled to fund balance and this pulls those funds out of fund balance and back into this year's operating budget.

Wonderful. For item... Where's the $30,000? $30,000. Yes. How long is this retainer for the police department?

It's an annual.

It's a year long?

Correct.

Okay. Awesome. Does council have any other questions for the consent agenda? No? No? No. Jim? All right. We will pick back up on the motion from Ricky. Can I get a second?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. All opposed?

Did we need to include that change, though, that we made?

I think it was already noted in the change. Is that correct? For the budget amendment?

Yeah, with the $623 more. Yes.

All right. Moving right along. Picking up on old business. We've got ordinance amendment canvassers and solicitors. I'm going to recognize Aaron Holland.

All right. Thank you, Mayor. And this was an item that was on last month's agenda. Because it adds criminal penalties to the code of ordinances, it has to be passed with a second reading. It was passed last month. So it's on your agenda for this month so that it could clear that second reading requirement.

Mayor, make a motion that we approve this change to the code of ordinance.

Let me hold one more minute. Ricky, is there any other discussion from council on this? I would like to say last month, I think that we do need to revisit it before we pass it. But I'm one vote there. So Ricky, we'll pick back up on your motion. Does he have a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. That passes 4-1, Renee. All right. Ordinance Amendment animals and fowl, recognizing Aaron Holland.

Similar to the last ordinance amendment, this was approved by council a couple months back. It also would require that council approve it through second reading due to the criminal aspect of the penalties. So it's on the agenda again so that we have that point.

Is there any discussion from council on this one? No. Okay. Is there a motion that would like to be made?

Madam Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that we approve this ordinance amendment with the animals and fowl section. I second the motion.

All in favor? Aye. All opposed? 5-0, Renee. Thank you so much. All right. On to public hearing. This is, I'm going to say a couple things first, Aaron, unless you want to jump in there first. No, okay. Social District came up at the May meeting. the council was interested in hearing anything that the community wanted to say about the social district if you guys were interested in the social district what kind of social district um and so while this is a very open public hearing um i will say that the type of social district that was most expressed at the may meeting was an event-based social district it came about because we already have some alcoholic alcohol consumption at events like arts around the square. Um, and that's what we're, what was most talked about at the May meeting. Um, but Aaron, do you have anything else to add? No. Okay. At this time I would, um, like to open the public hearing. If anybody would like to speak on social district in any aspect, you are welcome to, to come take the mic. Three minutes. Hi, can you state your name and address please ma'am?

Linda Barnhill, 404 Forest Drive, Graham. I'm not prepared. I saw the thing about the social district. I have had some experience in my life with social districts. I grew up partly on the beach at Atlantic Beach. And so one of the big things is that I waded through a lot of puddles of beer and used beer and that kind of thing. So that's a potential. I'm concerned about children picking up leftover cups with alcoholic beverages in them. I think that could be a danger. So, and we will have, Graham is not a college town or anything like that. And we have kids coming out of the movie theater. We have, you know, families walking around a lot. And so I think that is a concern, exposure of children and teenagers to the alcoholic beverages. And Because inside you have restrooms, outside you do not. We have a lot of nice alleys with beautiful pictures and things that could change if we had numerous people outside who have been drinking or are inebriated. And so that was what I wanted to say. Thank you, Ms. Linda. I appreciate it.

Anyone else want to speak on the social district?

Hello.

Daniel Alvarez, 1022 Noel Road, Graham. Everybody knows I'm for having a social district. It'll boost the economy. It will, it's flexibility for us. It's already going on, on these events anyway. It just makes it a lot easier on us business owners. Uh, like I said last month, I think it was, I got a license to sell it to go just like Quickie Mark. When they walk out that door where to close beer, what they do with it, it's on them. We can police it better if we have a social district. Um, and To answer the question about the other stuff, we want it only for events. So you've got the restrooms in place. Everything's in place as long as we do it event-driven. So I appreciate y'all's consideration on that.

Thank you, Daniel. Anyone else interested? Name and address, please.

Westbrook 604 Trockwater Court, Graham. My only opinion on this is if we have it, I don't want to make it where it's all the time. Event-driven should be the way that we go because all these other places, I don't want to be like Burlington. I don't want to be like Mebane. I don't want to be like Gibbsville or Elon. I want to be like Graham. And I think if we just go with during an event, everybody in Graham would not have a problem with it. That's only my opinion, but thank you.

Thank you, Keith. Anybody else? I have one here from Jason Barner. The statement is, I'm hoping that you guys will not vote on the social district for the bars. We do not need beer and alcohol on the streets and sidewalks. Anybody else? All right. I need a motion to close the public hearing.

Madam Mayor, I make a motion to close the public hearing. Second.

All in favor? Aye. All right, Council. We have two for event-based and two for no social district.

Do you have any thoughts? What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that our Parks and Rec are already doing it during events. And I think event-based would give us a lot of control, which I think is what this council is interested in, especially if we take this step. In something like Arts Around the Square, we had two of our alcohol-selling businesses benefit. If it was a social district, it would more equally benefit all of our alcohol-selling businesses. So my opinion is, I think exploring what an event-based social district could look like would be beneficial to Graham. But I'm interested in hearing. And again, I want to back up. During the social district process, if we were to go forward, it requires to have another public hearing. And so this is not the last time that the public would be able to weigh in. We would have to form the draft of the ordinance that we would like to put forward and then the community would be able to speak on that as well before we vote to move forward. But Jim, my opinion is I would be in favor in exploring what it would look like and then throwing it back to the community, especially Public hearings are hard, especially when they're this vague. I think it's easier. It's easier for me. I don't know if it's easier for you guys, but it's easier for me to talk about something if I know the details of what I'm talking about. Social districts can be anything. We're not trying to be Elon 11 to 11 every day of the week. That's not who we are. But letting the community know what we're actually interested in proposing, I think could be helpful.

Wasn't this published?

It was published, but it's still vague.

Since we discussed it at the previous meeting, I have gone to around and have partaken in some beverages. It just seems to me like um, most of them are, are indifferent. Like it doesn't matter to them whether we have it or not. And I don't see it as a, as a selling point for downtown. I mean, Graham, our downtown thrives. It's, you know, we don't, because of where we are, we don't, you know, we, we don't need wayfinding signs or anything like that.

You, everybody knows where downtown is at.

Um, I just don't see a benefit even for event driven. Um, and I, I just don't see a benefit in, in that. And I have, you know, I'm, I'm the one that wanted to have the, the, uh, discussion about it and just in, in talking with, with folks, um, and neighbors and, you know, I come downtown and just happened to, you know, Hey, what do you think about this? And, and, uh, I think the majority of the people either don't want it, like the lady that just spoke a little while ago, and the others are just indifferent. Even the ones who spoke in favor, Daniel, it doesn't matter to him because he can sell it to go anyway. I just don't think it would make much difference.

I don't think it needs. I agree. I don't think it's a selling point of Graham. I think it's an addition. And what I took away from Daniel's point is it might not matter one way or the other to him, but it's leaving our community members missing. maybe up for confusion if they're trying to drink. And that puts the blame on them. And I get that. But if we're trying to create an environment, some of our events have alcohol, some of them don't. We're one of the only downtowns that don't have a social district. It's just sometimes it blurs the lines is all that I'm trying to point out. But I hear what you're saying, Jim.

Do you guys have any thoughts? I pretty much agree with Jim. I don't think anybody needs to be walking in and out of businesses with open cups of beer. I just don't see the need for that. We already do alcohol at Arts Around the Square, but they don't get to just walk in and out of businesses, you know, other businesses with alcohol, open alcohol. And I don't think that's something that I want to see started here in Graham. Bobby?

I concur with what the majority of folks said. We don't really need to have a social drinking district. I mean, we are a family-centered community, and the bars that are here in Graham, folks can sit outside the premises at tables and chairs that are there. So why do we need to designate that we want to you know we that we are a social history, you know drinking.

I agree with what the sun.

So in that I'm hearing that consensus is not to move forward in any way with the social district is that correct yet. All right. Well, we will move on to... We need to make a motion, don't we? It just says determine any action needed. Okay. So staff, no action is needed. Okay. All right. New business, street closure, NC Barbecue Hall of Fame. Aaron Holland, can you walk us through it?

Thank you, Mayor. This is a new proposed event that you mentioned before. This is a NC Barbecue Hall of Fame cook-off event, also co-sponsored by Alcovitz. They're looking to close the 100 block of East Elm Street from the Circle to Marshall Street on Saturday, October 10th from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., which includes the set-up and clean-up times. It's for the Whole Hog Cook-Off Special Event is the title of the event. Typically, we would have these type of events on our consent agenda, except for when they're a new event, which is why it's before you at this point.

Awesome. Thank you. I know that there was a little bit more information in the packets. Council, do you guys have any questions?

May I make a motion that we approve this event?

I had a question. Any judges? I think the applicant is actually here. Mr. Hershey's here.

I volunteer to be a judge.

Any other questions? Okay. I'm good.

You good?

I think we got Ricky on the making a motion. Would you like to second the motion, Bobby?

I'll second it.

All right. All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? That was 5-0. Thank you, Renee. All right. At this time, I would like to recognize Jeff Bennis for the Resident Committee Report to Rebuild the Sesquicentennial Park on Courthouse Square. Thank you for being here, sir.

Thank you for inviting me. And thank council for adding this item to the agenda. Really appreciate it. Although I'm not happy about being after the barbecue festival, especially the whole hog. That's gonna be a tough act to follow. All right, so Jeff Bennis, 1407 East Gilbert Street. In the last city council meeting, Mr. Chin recommended, if the community was interested in reestablishing the park, why don't you start an LLC? Okay, it was a good comment. And this got me thinking, how many people are really interested in this thing? I don't know. We always have people making comments back and forth, but what's the volume of people that are interested in this thing? I called the town hall meeting. Well, I was pleasantly surprised. We had 41 residents attend the town hall committee meeting on a Wednesday evening, right?

Everybody was there, right?

We have a petition to rebuild the park with over a hundred names. And we didn't even try on this petition. We just gave some sheets out to a bunch of people and say, hey, if you know of people that wanna uh rebuild the park on courthouse square have them sign up for it i mean there was little effort put into this probably about a half a dozen people and a hundred people signed up for this thing so i believe there is a lot of community interest in rebuilding that park on the courthouse square okay i don't know much about the park i moved here in 1990 the park was put in 1999 i was here i was not involved i don't even remember it being put in But I have gotten involved as I researched more. The park was built in 1999. It was a collaborative effort between the city government, the citizens of Graham, and the citizens of the county, and the county board. Everybody worked on this thing together. And you don't see that very often anymore. The park brought all parties together, working together towards one common goal. That's like something from a Disney movie. Today, we have got a great opportunity to do the same thing today. And what a better year to do it. The 250th celebration of the United States, and this was 150 years celebrating the history of Alamance County.

All right, I'll introduce Richard here in a second.

Okay, at our town hall meeting, we had attendees at the meeting who were on the original committee. One of those gentlemen, I think his name was Sam, Sam Powell. He attended the town hall meeting, and he was part of the original committee. And he's still on the county board, all right? And they all commented with tears in their eyes. I was surprised. With tears in their eyes, what a wonderful experience it was to see everybody working on this thing together. It was like, you know, the whole town got together, all right? All hands... were working together, very little strife. I mean, there were conversations, let's do this, let's do that, but everybody was working together. And there were fundraising activities, people selling cookies, people putting flags out, car washes, all sorts of things. Recently, I've been doing a lot of reading about our federal and local and state local history because of our political climates, right? And one common theme in doing all this reading was, and I read it a couple of times, our past history keeps the spirit of our town and county alive. It educates present day citizens who moved here from Maryland or California or wherever they came from. They don't know anything about Graham. They don't know anything about the county seat. They don't know that the courthouse is a big deal in Graham, all right? My mother-in-law, God rest her soul, that's all she talked about. You know, Graham's the county seat. That's all she talked about, all right? It educates present-day citizens with past challenges, heroic efforts, and successes, which showcases who we are as a community. It bridges the history of the county to the present day, and that's important. The park is an important part of our current livelihood. It means something today to have that park there. At the town hall meeting, the residents organized. They formed the leadership team. Mr. Richard Wright, who you've seen running around Graham a lot, it's a triumvirate of three persons being the committee chairman. Instead of one person, it's three people. Mr. Richard Wright, Ms. Jane Albright, and Mr. Jim Albright. The Albrights are traveling today. They can't be here, so they asked me to spoof for them, okay? That's all we did at the town hall meeting. I mean, it wasn't a deep dive, but it got it going, right? We wanted to find out the interest. We wanted to start up some sort of organization, okay? From this three-person committee, after the meeting, there will be many committees formed, all right? All sorts of committees, fundraising, you know, decoration, landscaping, everything, probably 10 different committees, all right? Many subcommittees will be formed, just like in 1999. I mean, I understand there were like 40 people working on this park, from the city government to the citizens working on this park. Now, one subject that comes up considerably is cost. And Ms. Garner is involved with cost, and everyone's concerned about cost. We could do this park for $0.00. We'd have the grass that's there now and a bench, $0. It doesn't have to cost 750,000. It doesn't have to cost 1.2 million. It wouldn't be much of a park, but it doesn't have to cost a gazillion. I mean, in my own family budget, if I don't have the money, I don't spend it. So it's a zero-based budget. There is some money, I think, from the grant, and I understand the New Leaf Society has committed to help with landscaping. It's a start. So why don't we start small, and over the years, build it up. Until someday when we have to bring in bulldozers if we want to, but we don't have to. You don't need a peragola. You don't need one of those things. Maybe you can put up some pretty fancy... sunshade things that you can put up, right? Pretty impressive. Not a lot of weight. I mean, I walked on the grass. I didn't sink. All right. So you have to put a lot of weight on it. So the dollars, the cost of the park will be based on how many dollars do we have available? All right. If it's not a lot, then we don't build a big park, but at least it's a start. The Sesquicentennial Park Citizens Committee, along with the New Leaf Society, is inviting the city council and the county board to unite with the citizens to reestablish the park. Do you have anything you want to say?

I'm Richard Wright, and I'm from 236 South Marshall Street.

And I've lived here all of my life.

I was born on New Street. And I played on Court Square since I was a little boy. And I'm actually played in the house that I'm living in right now too. And Graham has always struck me as a town of people, a community of people. And this was brought home to me when we had our meeting over at the Methodist Church, and I saw Sam Powell. Now, Sam came to our church, Providence Church, and spoke at our Memorial Day meeting a dozen years ago, maybe more than that. And I was always amazed at Powell because he was so well-versed in county history. So he came to our meeting and he met the daughter of someone who sat on the original commission with him to actually build the park. Now, Sam was really touched by this. If you know Sam Powell, he's a very, very almost himself, historic person in the county. And he's done a lot for our economy. And there's a lot of people who got their first job with Sam Powell. And he was really struck seeing the daughter of the woman who has passed away, who was on the commission with him. And then it brought it home to me that this Susquehanna Park isn't just about the anniversary of our great nation's founding. And it's not just about the anniversary of the founding of Graham and Alamance County, but it's about real living people. The people who got together, just like my friend here has said, and they did bake sales. One lady brought a copy of the cookbook, the Sesquicentennial Park cookbook. And then they sold raffle tickets. They raised money. And it became not just a park, not just benches, and not just bricks that have got our citizens' names on them, but rather it became the lifeblood of this county, of this town. That park represents our ancestors, my mama and daddy. Our grandparents were part of that. They built that park. And whether we've got a parable on it, or we got a bench, or we just got a maple tree, that land represents them also. My mama and daddy and my grandma, Fanny, represents them too. I don't want to see that sold and a bar go on top of it. We've all been in bars, and sometimes we've been moved out of bars before. But I don't want to see some place that my mama bought those bricks put on that ground with my daddy's name on them. I don't want a bar sitting on top of it. What do I want? A couple of benches, a bush, maybe some place where when we're walking around in town, we've got a place where we can sit. And maybe on the wall there it talks about the sesquicentennial celebration. But it also is going to talk about the great history of this country. And why we celebrate the history of this country. Not because it's just a memorial day. Not just because we can put our flags up here on the telephone poles. It's what we came from. That place out there is where my mom and daddy came from. And it's where your mamas and daddies came from. That's what makes this nation great. And to sell it and put a bar on top of it is a degradation to what they went through to give us the life we got now. So that's what the Susquehanna Park Citizens Committee stands for. We stand for our history. And our history is just not what's in a book, not what you see on a TV screen, not what you see on your telephone, but our history is living people who came before us and who are now not with us. And right now, they're looking at us saying, what are you going to do with that park? And I'd like for them to say, you did a good job with it.

That's it.

And I'm the running guy, and I just want everybody to know, I own more than a pair of running shorts.

Richard, thanks for your comments. Well said. I'm going to ask the council if you have any questions about anything.

Council?

I'll do the best I can.

So, Jeff, how much extra time do you think the committee is going to need? Are you actually talking years? You just start small?

We haven't had any planning meetings yet. But again, we can only spend as much money as we have. And I think there's a grant that we can use and something from the New Leaf. And maybe if the citizens raise money, I don't know. Those are some details. And so in answer to your question, how much time do we have? What do we want? We want to work with the council. What does the council want? What's the end goal for this square piece of land? Do we want extravagant? Well, that'll take a long more time. If we want grass and a bench, we'll be done by Friday. It's everything from here to here. It's hard to answer your question because a planning committee, which I would hope that the city council would participate in, What does everybody want there? What's the goal? And it might be, well, the first year we do this, the second year we do this, the third year we do this, and it grows. I don't know.

Has anybody talked to the county commissioners? Have you gone and discussed this with them since?

Only Sam, because it was from the last council meeting, town hall, today.

I've spoken to them. and I was told that the county manager would get in touch with me, and ever since, I've not heard anything. It's just crickets.

We really wanted to make our presentation to the city council first, and then the county, because you're closer to it than the county is. But we would certainly approach them, and they were part of the 1999 effort, and Sam Powell was there, and he's still on the board, so... I hope it would be supported. I can't see, it's a county park, right, on Graham land. I would hope that they would participate. Any other questions? Okay, well, thank you for your time and for your consideration.

Thank you, Jeff. All right. I would like to pause. This isn't on our agenda, but I know that our next item is discussing the surplus property and we'll get into that. But it sounds like that committee is specifically requesting just time, not to rush into surplus or anything. Is there anything else that you guys took from that presentation that we need to just acknowledge up here?

We recognize that the community wants to sesquicentennial Park. Now this council has never had a position of eliminating and not keeping the park question is where should the park can the park be somewhere else downtown because you mentioned about the land will prior to the park being there. There was a building there, which you can see in this picture right here. So when you talk about the history, that land has history tied to a building that from what I understand was kind of the landmark building for Town Square. It was, you know, years. And so There's history there as well. We were exploring how could we relocate the park and keep the park downtown. And so there's been comments made that this council is not interested in keeping the park, but we're going to abolish it and it's gone. No, that is not the case. When we dismantled it, we saved the bricks. We saved, you know, so if we rebuild the park in a new location, taking into account the committee that wants to build it, then we'll move forward on it. Now, my position about the park has been one of it was built with private funds. and that's great and that's why i brought up the matter of an llc to raise the funds to manage it own it because since its construction the city has been responsible for maintaining it and from my understanding the annual costs to maintain the park our public works has been $20,000 a year. That's, you know, keeping the pergola painted, planting flowers, so forth and so on. Now, in 2016, our predecessors had the opportunity to fix the park and they didn't. But now 10 years later, What should have been done back in 2016 is now a safety issue. And that's why we dismantled the park. But we've saved the bricks. And so if we decide to build the park somewhere here downtown, the bricks are here. But saying that we have to put it back on that piece of property, when you talk about history, well, we have history of if we want to put something, if we put something there, it's going to be something that we will be pleased that the owner will do the right thing in what he builds or she builds.

I do want to say that you said that we've always been, this council has always had the intention of building it somewhere else. I will say personally, the aesthetics of us putting surplus property process on our agenda without trying to rebuild the park first definitely speaks to, it just, for me, it feels like this council is just trying to build put it away and not rebuild it. Hold on, I'm still talking. I will say that you said in 2016, the past council had an opportunity to rebuild. Actually, I will, hold on. I will say, Bonnie, this is our discussion. Bonnie, this is my time. Bonnie, this is my time. I can talk. So right now, I will say in 2016, they had a past opportunity. I will say that this council in 2026, has a very similar...

Stick to the agenda.

We approved this as part of the agenda. Bonnie, let me talk. Bonnie, let me talk. I'm gaveling you because you're interrupting me. In 2016, they had the opportunity to rebuild that park. It is 2026. We have a similar opportunity. It might take more money, but we still have that opportunity. That land is not a sinkhole. There is something that can be done construction-wise. Our community is asking for time, and I don't understand what the rush is.

Two and a half years is not a rush. We've been talking about it for two and a half years.

Then give them another six months. If we've waited two and a half years, I don't think six months is going to kill us. Okay, now we will move on to the surplus property. Hold on, guys. We do need to move on. Surplus property process. Megan Garner, can I recognize you, please?

Yes, absolutely. At the June 9th meeting, City Council came to a consensus, three to two, to explore options associated with declaring the property of Sesquicentennial Park surplus. There are three options if City Council elected to go that route. You can do the option of sealed bids, upset bids, or public auction, and public auction can include electronic auction as well. So we did verify with GovDeals and Auctions International. that you can sell real property through both of those just like you can personal property. So if city council has any desire to declare that property surplus, we would need to know what method you would want to use so we can bring that back for future consideration.

Great. Thank you, Megan, for that. All right, Jim, I'm going to start with you and we will go down the line and hear comments and questions.

Well, if the property is put up for surplus, whatever, the property does have issues. So I doubt that it would be sold for very much. That process alone is still months down. You would think that the committee to save the park, that would give them time to come up with the money and perhaps buy it themselves. Richard, you did it, man. I'm telling you. I had thought that doing this for surplus. And I know I'm not supposed to address these people, but you do it. You don't gavel anybody when they speak out of turn. You only gavel these people here. So get it ready. I was perfectly content with saying, you know, if it's got for surplus sale, then that still gives the folks an opportunity to come up with money. You know, they've been saying they'll come up with money since I've been a council member, so since January. And then when you tell them how much money you got, oh, we haven't done anything. And now all of a sudden when it comes down to the wire, oh, wait, no, give us more time. So that is frustrating, especially when, you know, some of them say that they don't know how to do an LLC. And I know very well that The majority of the people who want this park to stay are smart enough to come up with an LLC and raise money. That being said, I love you. I see you every day out running. I'm like, that's my running guy. And I run a mile and that's it. But you are part of Graham as far as I'm concerned. You're one of the people who reminds me of this town and why I love it so much because I see you everywhere. I've never met you, but I see you everywhere. And Jeff talks about, you know, they had county commissioner there, you know, Sam Powell was there. And what I would like to see is some kind of commitment from the county commissioners. And if the county commissioners want to get in on it, because they've already been asked, I would like to see that. And I am not opposed to giving more time to delay this. If you guys can go talk to the county, every one of you that's out here, you know, making comments and clapping, go to the county commissioners and do the exact same thing. You know, it's a sesquicentennial park for the county, not for Graham. It's for the county. So go see what they'll do. And I'm not opposed to delaying this. I don't know how the rest of the people, I know how Chelsea's going to vote, but I was not going to vote that way. But you did it. And I would love to see what the county will do. If they would commit to something, I'm willing to say, yeah, I'd like to put that on hold to see what the county will do. Because I have no problem at all with giving the people an opportunity. But the people have been given an opportunity since January at a minimum, and nothing's happened. So, I mean, you know, it's just, that's my only apprehension. But, yes, I would say let's delay this. Let's see what the county will do. And I challenge you to go to them and tell them the exact same thing. And I'll go with you. I'll be right there with you. And I'm happy to. I appreciate y'all coming, and I appreciate you speaking. What you've got to understand is everybody on this dais back here, we're all passionate about this town. And we might not agree on everything, but we all have that passion. And it's that same passion that makes you guys clap or boo or hiss. We all have that, and there's no need to apologize for that passion. And I... Man, I can't believe it, but yeah. I mean, I'm willing to say let's wait on this.

Ricky? Sorry, Jim. You good? That was the end of Jim's comments? Are you finished?

I'm finished.

Ricky, comment?

I'm sorry, but every day we keep this park, it's costing us money, and that's taxpayers' money. not only for the 40 people, but the 20,000 people that we represent. And I'm ready for us to declare property surplus.

What's the daily cost that you have in your head?

They said it was costing us $20,000 divided by 365.

In its current state, it's costing us $20,000 a year. Hold on, guys. I'm asking city staff. no that amount was not provided for the property as it is right okay um but you still hold that opinion yes ma'am okay um bobby we should move forward okay bonnie move forward um i'm against moving forward um it feels Silly that I have to say that, but I do think that we should, at minimum, delay moving forward. With that said, if three members want to move forward, there are three options before you, sealed bids, upset bids, and public auction.

Make a motion that we approve the sealed bids.

On the, I have some questions about the sealed bids. If I may.

Hold on to here.

So sealed bids mean that we get an appraisal first, I assume? Is that correct? We would have to have an appraisal before going forward and getting bids, right?

I don't believe the statute requires that you have an appraisal. I think it would be good practice to have the property appraised before any decision is made, whether you're going to accept a bid from whatever method you may choose.

Yeah, because I mean, I don't, I wouldn't want to accept the bid on the property without an appraisal value. So I think we would have to do that first. Um, And so with the sealed bids, that would mean everybody bids, whoever wants to bid on it. If these guys want to bid on it, whoever wants to bid on it, they turn in their bids. They remain sealed for how long?

You generally open the bid. You have a bid opening. And then those would come forward to city council. And city council would either accept one bid or reject all bids.

But I mean, how long would the bid process stay open is my question. Like 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, what?

We would have to publish the advertisement for sealed bids at least 30 days before the bid opening for real property. So it would be published for a minimum of 30 days.

Okay, that's the minimum? Okay. Correct.

Okay.

And then it would be up to council to either award to the highest responsive responsible bidder or reject all bids.

Correct.

So we could do either at that point?

Yes.

So then we could even, after that, turn around and reject it?

Yes.

Okay. I would think we should explore the upset bid process.

Can you explain, Erin, how that upset bid works a little bit?

So I would have to look into this a little bit deeper because I didn't study which one council would have a preference for. I actually thought the public auction would be the one that if council's moving forward since it kind of has sort of an upset bid labor to it, but it does allow for a little more flexibility. If what council is wanting is to have it where an individual is making a bid and they can upset the amount that someone else has so that it trends higher, then obviously the public auction gives you probably, and Megan, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that one probably gives you the most leeway for that more so than even the upset bid, which is a little more formal than I would say the public auction would be.

Yeah, depending on the number of bids received, the upset bids could be the longest process, and it has the potential to be more expensive because you have to keep re-advertising. If you get a bid that upsets the one that you had before and it meets the criteria, so it has to meet it by either a certain dollar amount or a percentage, and then basically you kind of start the clock again for anyone to come through and upset that bid.

It's more criteria to the upset bid. think public auction does have a similar expectation, where you're expecting someone to upset someone's next bid. But obviously, it's your choice.

No, I'm sorry. This is council only. I just want to confirm. Consensus of council is we're declaring this land surplus because it's costing us money. No, we're declaring it surplus so that we can sell it. Right, but why? What's the purpose? And hold on, guys. What's the purpose of declaring it surplus and declaring it surplus in a hurry? It's not in a hurry. This is not in a hurry. Two and a half years is not a hurry. I asked for another six months to tack on to our two and a half years.

And we're not in agreement with that. We already said that.

I'm just trying to understand what the hurry is, why we have to decide tonight to put it up for surplus. Jim and I would like to give the community a little bit more time because they are organized.

They're free to buy it. We just wanted to give the city staff what tonight's vote is to give direction to the city staff to lay out the process and any restrictions that need to be defined in regards to whether it's a sealed bid, an upset bid, or public auction.

I understand they've laid out the process. That doesn't mean that we have to act on it.

But we want them to start the process of defining what we need to do.

And that's my exact question is, why do we have to give them action?

Why do we need to wait?

Because the community has asked us, and you're giving them maybe 30 days to put a bid together? It doesn't seem... like we're being very easy to work with as far as...

I think we've already expressed it. We've had enough time. It's been two and a half years. We've got other business to do. We've been kicking this can down the road for two and a half years now. We're going to make a decision tonight. And it's just because you don't like the decision, I can't help you with that.

Okay. I'm just saying for the record that it is very unclear to me why we are moving forward. We don't have to have a why. We have to have a vote.

And we voted.

You don't have to say why. I would hope for the people that I represent that I can explain the why. And hold on, guys. And that is all that I will say. You guys can continue your discussion on which method you would like to move forward with.

Madam Mayor, I'd like to, since, you know, The community you represent, you actually ran on the statement that you could come up with grants and money from other agencies to save the park. So what's the status of that? I called you out on this maybe three or four meetings ago, and I got blasted because I did that. And because I actually answered Mr. Boney's question in LMS News, but I didn't run on it. You ran on it. So where is this money?

My response to that is this council... Tell them.

They're the ones that you made these campaign promises. I don't think they do. I think they see you... cheerleading up here, but you're just skipping over. You won't answer the question, where's all these grants that you said you could come up with to save the park?

Community.

And that was when we got elected.

I can talk to you guys. This council, hold on, I'm talking to the community. This council has shown me that they do not accept donations and they do not accept grant funds. We already have a grant and we had donations for other things and everything has been either not used or rejected. When did we have donations for the park? We did not have a donation for the park. I had a donation for something else and that was rejected. I'm talking to the community. I'm talking to you. I'm sorry. Sit down, please. I've got this.

Oh yeah, you always say that, but you never do. You never do.

Because of those things, I do have, I brought the National Real Estate Organization does assessments of downtown properties. I've been talking to them to hopefully get some kind of assessment to help us figure out what to do with this plot of land. There's grant funds for place building with the National Real real estate. I have things in the works, but there's nothing that this council has proven that they would move forward.

And so... You haven't brought it up. Do you not think... Who has been the one that's been siding with you? Okay. Would it kill you to say, hey, Jim, I've got this stuff? Because, you know, honestly, I don't think you do. I don't think you have anything. I think you promised all of this crap when you were running that you could save the park. And now we're calling you out on it. I'm calling you out, not the rest of it. You can hate on me because I'm calling her out. She made these promises. She should be held accountable, just like you hold the rest of us accountable. I just want to know, you've been saying it since you got elected prior to that. You came to at least two or three council meetings. I'm Chelsea Dickey. I'm running for mayor, and I have a way to save the park. I can get funds. We have impact alimants. We can get money from outside organizations to save that park. Where is it?

Jim, they're ready to partner, and yet... Who is they? Impact Alamance, New Leaf, they're ready to partner, but they see this up here.

Let them send me an email telling me that.

We are still two votes.

I'm usually the one that's on your side. I'm not getting anything from them.

I'm going to pause right there.

If we put a rainbow out here on the corner, tell them we'll paint the park rainbow colored, will they give us some money then?

Guys, stop. This is guys. This conversation has to end. Okay. First, stop. Stop. I've got to answer him.

You haven't yet.

Do we not have grant funds from the state for downtown revitalization?

That's not what you said you were going to do. Yes, we do have grants.

Then that is grants. And also, the timeline on this park.

Who are a Democrat?

Oh, my. Okay.

That is not what I asked you.

We're moving on. We're moving on.

Okay, great. What would you like to talk about? I would like for you to tell me, have you gone to the state and asked for any money for the Susquehanna Centennial Park? Have you gone to anybody and asked for any money or any kind of help? monetarily, because what I'm hearing from you is an excuse. I haven't done that because y'all won't move forward. You haven't given me indication. If I wanted to save that park, if I were you and I was that passionate about it, I would have gone and raised the money anyway, because that way you bring it and you say, I have this.

Why haven't you done it? Hold on. If I had the money, you guys would say, yes, we can save the park.

I'm not saying that, but I'm asking you. All right.

All right.

I would. I would. I want to see. You showed me the money. I'll vote whatever way you want to to restore that park. But not grant money that's already here.

Nothing. Nothing. Except sit up here and run your mouth. Let's move along. Guys, stop.

Do you want to declare surplus property tonight? I already said yes. Okay, well, go ahead with your motion.

We haven't picked a bid yet.

Go ahead with the discussion.

We were trying to, but you kept interrupting us. Guys, can you go?

I'll take credit for that last one.

Continue.

Take care of that.

Can you finish the conversation? Get control of yourself and get control of them. Guys, please. Hey, I mean it. I mean it. Bonnie, do you want to finish the conversation?

We're trying to, but we can't with all the chatter. Look, talk to Bobby and Ripley, please. That's who's got your vote.

Are you going to be quiet now? Are you going to keep them quiet? Are you? Are you going to do your job or not? Yes or no? All right. So we have three possibilities, the sealed bids, the upset bids, the public auction. And I do believe that our assistant manager explained some of the differences with the options. My choice would be to do the public auction because, as you said, the upset bids would take a lot longer, number one, and number two, it could get expensive. We'd end up spending more money that way. If we did the auction, everybody could openly see what was being bid. It would be an open process. And if someone wanted to outbid someone else, they could. And we still always have the option to not take any of the bids, if that's what we wanted to do. So that would be my choice, would be public auction.

Ricky? I'm with you.

OK. Then I make a motion that we put the Susquehanna Centennial Park land up for surplus sale. And we do it by public auction.

May I ask a clarification question? Do you want that to be a live auction or an electronic auction?

Guys, hold on.

I don't really have a preference. Ricky, do you? Whatever staff thinks we need to do. What do you think's best?

Not having personal experience with live auctions, I would go with electronic. I think it shows bidding history. But the choice is obviously.

OK. All right. Then I'll amend my motion to include and to do it by electronic auction.

And may I ask a second clarification question? I'm sorry. If electronic auction is the method the board may authorize electronic-only notice, do you want us to advertise the auction electronically, or do you want us to do it electronically and publish it?

I would say both. It gets out to more people that way. So do I have a second? Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed?

Aye.

Passes 3-2. All right. Last item on new business is Main Street Conference reimbursement. Aye. Aye.

I want to start this conversation by saying that... I make a motion that Mayor Dickey be recused from this conversation.

I am talking first. I make a motion that you be recused. Bonnie, let me introduce this. Thank you.

I make a motion that you be recused.

I want to start this conversation by saying that everyone up here is, I think, this is about the principle of the thing. The dollar amount is $260. This could sound like a silly conversation. But I think all of us up here are interested in an ethical and an efficient government. And so trying to figure out what this looks like is a deeper conversation than just the $260. So... When all of this happened, this started at the Main Street Conference. The city manager's office purchased a ticket, and then the funds were rejected by council. I have been invoiced for that $260. At the time, Aaron had emailed or communicated that I would be responsible for the $260 if I had chosen to go and council had said no. This was a little bit of a red flag then. I don't know of a lot of mayors getting invoiced, but the timeline was so crunched then that I didn't necessarily look into it. Since then, I have called the North Carolina League of Municipalities. They pointed to if we had any ordinances or laws or protocols that indeed instructed us to pay back invoices, then that is indeed what we should do. But if not, it really speaks to the communication between the city manager and the council. And so what the... her authority looks like to make purchases or what policies we have in place so that these invoices have the policy. I am happy to pay this invoice. I just need to know that there is actually policy. At this time, I'm going to recognize Megan Garner for any additional details and then we can pick up Bonnie's motion.

I make a motion that Mayor Dickey be recused from this conversation. She stands to financially gain If we decide to, hey, hey, take care of it.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. That wasn't a laughing matter. Take care of it. I did. I did. No, take care of it, Magna Gamble. There you go. All right. So it is ridiculous, isn't it? It is ridiculous.

Hold on. Brian, can they vote to refuse me? Yes. I was just checking. Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? I'll oppose that, but all right. Ricky.

Thank you, ma'am.

Sure.

All right.

Mr. Hall.

Oh, sorry.

Mayor Putnam.

Megan, do you have any?

Yeah, I'll be happy to read the background and summary from the staff report that was provided in the agenda packet. So there was, as Mayor Dickey and others mentioned, there was a budget amendment and the amount of $1,500 on the agenda of the March 10th City Council meeting. Those funds were and earmarked, they were donation, they were earmarked for Mayor Dickey's attendance at the Main Street Conference. City Council pulled that item from the consent agenda and subsequently removed the $1,500 donation. We did have to refund those dollars back to the donor. City Council gave staff direction in 2022 that Graham was no longer going to be a participant in the Main Street program. I, as staff, Assistant City Manager Erin Holland, as staff, does not have the authority to override a directive provided to us by City Council. It's a similar situation with the prior mayor. There was attendance requested at, I believe, a national Main Street conference. Staff handled it the same way we put it as a budget amendment on the agenda for City Council and because we as staff cannot override the directives given to us. And the directive given to us was that Graham is not going to be a participant in Main Street. So when the budget amendment for the $1,500 was not approved, the $260 registration fee needed to be refunded Finance staff invoiced Mayor Dickey. As she mentioned in March, the invoice was due in April. There was a reminder sent I believe 30 or 60 days after the original due date. So the $260 remains outstanding at this point and we need direction from City Council on whether those funds are owed or you want to do something else.

So this This was a policy from 2022 that we wouldn't participate in that Main Street.

It was a directive from City Council that with the 2023 budget, all dollars associated with the Main Street program and downtown development be zeroed.

There's history there. We were participating in the Main Street program back in 2022. When we looked at it when we were developing the budget, It was one of those things of what have we benefit from being part of that program? And the answer was nothing. They did not help us bring any new businesses to Graham. However, they wanted us to have somebody on staff who never brought any businesses to downtown And then they expected we, the city, to levy a tax on all the businesses downtown that they would get. It's like, why do we want to add a tax to our businesses? I mean, if you're a business owner, the last thing you want to do is have to pay more taxes. know and that's why in 2023 we made the motion to strike that budget line and remove ourselves from the mainstream conference and so when the mayor wanted to go to the conference we talked about it we says hey Why do we want to send you to a conference which we have not gained anything from when we participated with them? But she went anyway. And so that's why we're here now. She went, she charged an item, the $260 registration, and now she wants the city, you the taxpayers, to pay $260 for something that she was asked not to go to. I mean, it sounds good. If you go to the Main Street Conference website and you read what it costs to be a member to participate, it's not cheap for the community. And as you can see, our downtown is thriving and we are expecting other businesses to come. So why should we pay for something that we are bringing for ourselves, attracting businesses here? Because again, if we joined, everybody thinks, hey, it's just city money. No, it's your money. It's taxpayer money. And that organization is not cheap. They want you to hire staff to do something that we don't need somebody to do what we're already doing, which is attracting businesses. I think that's why we withdrew our support for the Main Street organization.

I think we might be getting a little off topic.

But anyway, that's just the background. I do want to make clear something that the mayor said about that this council has made it clear that we won't accept any donations. What we made clear was we didn't think that Accepting donations for council travel was a good precedent to set. We didn't say anything about any other types of donations. The mayor was made fully aware that there was no funding for her to attend the conference. He was made fully aware that council did not want to participate in Main Street. And, you know, I mean, she was made aware that if that $260 was paid to reserve her a spot and council disapproved it, that she would be left holding the bag for that money. And I think she also, if I'm not mistaken, had sent an email saying that she was going to pay it after last month's meeting. And she had said she was going to write a check that night, but she did not. So I think if it were any other citizen that owed money to the city, he needs to be treated the same way. I need to be treated the same way. We all need to be treated the same way if we owe money. So I do think that she should have to pay it.

DAVID BURRAGE- Megan, the email thread

know discussing this with her over the past several months that's part of the public record and everything right it's not it is and we included it in the agenda packet as well as well as aaron holland's email to her in advance of the attendance at the registration i think that was in march so if when i was given notice after the league of municipalities city vision

If I said I am not going to reimburse the city for that $50 pizza I got from Jimmy V's in Raleigh, we would be having the same meeting about me. Correct. Just checking. I'd like to make a motion that we just inform Mayor Dickey that she does in fact owe the $260 and she should stick to her word in the emails that she said she would pay it. She knew she was going to have to reimburse it when she went on the trip. I don't think there's any more to discuss. I would like to make a motion that we just tell her she needs to pay the city. Jim, I second your motion.

I made a motion. I second this motion. All in favor? All in favor? Aye.

There you go.

And then a motion to bring Mayor Dickey back.

Yeah, I'd like to make a motion that we bring Mayor Dickey back up. I second the motion.

I'll grab her.

All in favor? All in favor?

Aye.

All right. Can somebody give me an update? Are we past number six?

Yes. We voted that you needed to pay the $260. Okay.

Is there a place legally or in our ordinance or in our policy that outlines that? I had requested that of Ms. Garner three weeks ago.

Are you asking?

I'm just asking, of the discussion, did you find where legally or in our ordinance or in our policy that it was obligated to pay?

Because you were directed not to go and you chose to do that anyway. We're treating you the same way we would treat any citizen or any one of us if we had done that.

Yes, and we usually have ordinances and policies that we can uphold for those citizens.

But you went on, there was no budget line number.

And I didn't purchase the ticket. That was the city manager's office. And so what I'm saying is if we're unhappy on how this is going, we either need to address the city manager's process for spending so that we can approve everything, or we can put a policy in place that dictates invoices should be paid back and go from there.

Chelsea, did you not send an email saying that you would take care of it several months ago?

I sent an email saying I can bring a check and then I had called the League of Municipalities and they had directed to ask some questions first.

I should have talked to them before I paid for that pizza. That's just ridiculous.

I believe the city attorney has something he would like to add. Sure. Brian?

There may not be a a policy, but there is a statute that covers it. Great. Which one is it? 168-64.1.

168-164.1. 168-64.1. 168-64.1.

Sorry about that.

That's on withholding compensation money judgment against council member or mayor if they owe the city money.

And what the determining factor is, is did the city enter into a contract for city services, which in some examples, it can be a seminar. And if there were, and if you had entered into the contract, then you can garnish the wages of the mayor or council member or whoever who went to receive that money back. So if you have a contract with Main Street, or the contract could be as simple as they offer the seminar, the city pays for the seminar, that's a contract. Mutual consideration. Let's see. Offer acceptance and consideration in a meeting of the minds. That doesn't have to be written. It can be verbal.

But it would have to be me acknowledging that the ticket was purchased and could be invoiced back.

I think it's just as long as the city entered into the contract, if it was on your behalf. I'm not, I don't even know that there is a contract. I'm assuming that it was paid. It was a registration fee. The registration fee makes it a contract, I think.

So the city entered into a contract with Main Street, North Carolina.

Whoever was putting on the seminar. And so that makes it... For city services to send a city representative to the seminar. That makes it a contract.

I don't think I'm following what you're saying.

Who were the representatives who went to the city...

So under that statute, it indicates that a mayor or council member to collect any unpaid dues to the city for city services. And I think that was going to fall under city services, the main street or the seminar that was paid for by the city and that was attended. I think that's a contract. OK. That's just my opinion.

Yeah, I would like to run this by either School of Government or Bob, and then we can continue conversation.

Brian said. I'm good with that. OK.

I would like to point out that Assistant City Manager Holland had conversations with our auditor from Stout, Stewart, McGowan and King and talked with the League at the time that this had come up and we did not receive what appeared to be the same advice that Mayor Dickey received as far as the donation. We were told pretty expressly, and he can speak to this firsthand, that if the funds were not approved, then the money would have to be reimbursed. And I think his email to Mayor Dickey on Thursday, March 5th, spelled out the conversation that was had and where that risk would fall if the budget amendment was not approved by council. Do you want to put that up on the screen?

From my conversation with the league, I had shared this email as well. And they said as, It's fine that he emailed, but unless I said, yes, I understand that, then that would dictate the contract of, I understand. But at the time, that was still a red flag of...

It's worth it to me to pay $260 just so we can get going with this meeting. Can I do that, Megan?

Like I said, I thought this was a bigger conversation as far as... Jim, I'm serious. It is true.

Make it a bigger conversation. It doesn't need to be. You had committed that you would reimburse the city for that. You were told that you would have to reimburse the city for that. What's the big deal?

It's a bigger conversation of what policies we do or do not have in place. I'm not sure. I'm not sure either.

Okay.

I would like to talk to Bob about this statue and then come back. Is everybody okay with that?

No, we directed you to pay it. So you need to pay it.

Since we just had our motion and it was passed, does interest go on this?

It's my understanding that interest and...

I'm asking Megan a question, please.

Okay. I don't believe we have interest for non-taxes adopted in our fee schedule. So assuming that's correct, the answer to that would be no.

OK. You're getting over it. You don't even have to pay interest on it.

Or late fees. Average citizen would be incurring late fees. Okay.

I agree with Jim. They're garbage can out at the side of the road who are getting worse punishment.

I agree with Jim that we do need to move forward. I will be talking to Bob, and I can report back via email to counsel. Okay. Are we okay to enter into public comments? Please. Okay. Does anybody want to sign up who has not signed up for public comments? No? Everybody's good? All right. Oh. Come on up and you can sign up. Okay.

One question about the public comments.

Just sign up to public comments and we'll get to you. Thank you so much.

I wanted to know.

Hold on, Ms. Blundo. We're going to go in order.

I did want to reiterate there are rules for public comment period. Say speakers should not address an item already on the agenda. That's what it says.

No.

All right. First up is Julie Manning. If you could say your name and address just as soon as. You can come on up. Name and address please.

Julie Manning, 234 Webster Road, Graham. I have mostly two comments. Um, and they're actually not mostly about things on the agenda. It was about things actually said tonight during the meeting, but not necessarily about this kind of, um, madam mayor actually has asked for donations. and was granted them for the park from Cobb Sign Company in Burlington, North Carolina, a nearly 100-year-old standing business in Burlington, to which I am the vice president. I am a sign contractor. I fabricate large illuminated signs. I've been doing this for a good amount of time, but Cobb's been doing it for almost 100 years. They were founded in 1928, and they are owned by my husband's family. I'm very fortunate. Um, in January it was noted that I would donate any signage needed for that park. I also volunteered to paint the pergola. I volunteered to do any welding that needed to do with the pergola. We have a mobile welding unit. So I did want that rectified that anyone stated that she did not receive donations for recouping and recovering that park. That actually was not true. Second, I would like to ask the council, did you guys know that the second most important reason to be a part of any Main Street America organization is to receive grant funds? I actually am a national Main Street volunteer. I have gone to Virginia and painted murals. I have done cleanups. I have done movies in the park for children. I have passed out popcorn and candy for them. It is a national movement, yes, very much to bring talent and bring companies downtown. but it is really one of those things that you get out what you put into it. And if you were to hire an executive director of Main Street Graham, necessarily your talent that you have present may not have been good talent, and that's unfortunate, but that doesn't mean you should count the program out. I have very little time, but I did not want those things to go unnoticed. I didn't want her to have her name besmirched or anything false said about her. being that I knew that there was some truth to add. Thank you for your time.

I do have one question for you. Sure. It does say that we can ask a question. Are you aware that Mayor Dickey did not tell this council any of what you just said?

I actually mentioned it while I was here. I was here. I actually walked up front. And I asked Bonnie, can I have some time to speak with you? And I said, I am a sign contractor. Jim, I spoke with you. I said, I am a sign contractor. And I would happily donate services for this park. I spoke to you both myself. Jim, do you remember me talking to you about it?

I do. I did.

And that was because she asked me. So I just wanted it corrected. And I did say that to you. You were on your way out of the door when I said it, I will say. You're on the run from Tom. I get it.

Thank you, Julie.

It was directed to three of you, but thank you for your time.

Thank you, Julie. Jeff Bennis. Name and address, please, sir.

Jeff Bennis, 1407 East Gilbreath and Graham. I'd like this to be put in the record for the meeting. The I won't mention the SP word tonight. The citizenry of Graham who elected you to your offices, each one of you, to represent the interests of the community has asked you to join and partner with the citizenry, with the community to rebuild the thing we're talking about, okay? Certain members of this council have rejected, rejected working with the citizens who elected you and you're supposed to represent. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Jeff. All right. Keith Westbrook. All right. I'm going to pass. Ronnie Isley.

Oh, you're good. Thanks for being here. I am a lifelong Graham resident, proudly, a square miler. I had notes, but being my Baptist background, I had three points in a poem. Y'all changed it badly. I'm very disappointed tonight. I'm very ashamed of this council, majority of you. One question that came up, I added to my notes, is there, and I know you can't answer me, but Maybe it'll be answered later. Is there any other surplus property in Graham? I mean, what is this? I'll leave it at that. Is this the only one that's so important to sell? You three like to tear things down? It's been 20 years, and I've said this before. Drive by 300 East Parker Street in Graham. You'll see something that needs to be torn down. And if you live that way and drove by it every day, Those poor souls that live right behind it. Can you imagine what that Cannon Mill, Cup Mill property, it's just a shame. And you want some land? Whatever. I wonder if Aaron, he can't answer me, but is there any more update on the downtown banners? I see they did not get removed and my offer still stands. I'll come and take them down. Is there any update on that, on replacing them? It did not happen before Arts Round Square. I was kind of ashamed of that. Some of them look decent, and some of them look terrible. And I guess my question was, have we ever replaced any of them in the past? Why some look so bad and so choppy one? Thirdly, I don't know, six months ago, BAS, Burlington Animal Services, came with their handout asking for money. And myself, in the past year there in Graham, My wife and I have come across three stray dogs in our yard. Now, I'm not against dogs, believe me. We took in a stray through Guilford County Animal Shelter, and she's a beautiful thing. But she is a people person, and she doesn't like other animals. So when we contacted the police, when we finally got a hold of somebody, we contacted Bruins Animal Shelter, and all the answer was the same. We're full, turn them loose. And these were great dogs. They were somebody's dogs. I could not keep them in my fence because of our dog that we rescued. And my question is, I guess they're on the budget, I guess. And they're the only animal shelter in Ole Miss County that is running right now. That's just something to shame that those three dogs control my yard. And that's just me in one year. And we were turned away. There's no help. There's no help to be had. I know they do good things. But in that emergency situation, they were of no help. Thank you.

Thank you, Ronnie. Patsy Bailey and Susan Gross. Just Patsy.

Thank you. Can you hear me? This pastor started tonight with a very important prayer. It touched me so much. He said, we come here tonight with a calm mind and we pray for gracious hearts. I've seen none of this. This community has begged you to listen, to give us time. Every single thing that we've put forth to you, you have rejected. For you, it's two and a half years because for you it was done before it began. For us, every single time we've put forth something, it's like, nope, nope, nope. Money, grant money was available. You've said no. Everything that has been offered, you've said no. And so why should we, until now, even try to spend our time and effort to get money when you know you would say no? Please, give us just a few months. My mother helped create this park. The citizens of this community put this together. This whole town worked together. You're showing us that this is not while you're behaving. Please, we're asking you just to meet and give us a little bit of time. We should hurry. Thank you. Thanks, Betsy.

Maria Clapp, she's still here. I think so. Alex Stock. Hi. Name and address, please.

Alexander Stock, 532 Ward Street. I've walked here.

Thank you for being here.

I just wanted to raise awareness of the flock cameras that have started to pop up around Graham. The city of Graham is a fine place to live without any kind of surveillance state. I'm not comfortable with a private company tracking my vehicle wherever it goes based on license, blade, dents, stings, whatever, after they've been shown time and time again to have exploits that malicious actors can use to take control of the system or just steal the data. I fail to see the necessity of such scrutiny on the citizens of Graham. There's no crime wave that I know of. And like I said, I worry that they will be vulnerable to malicious use and degrade our constitutional rights. Is there any action the council or community could take to acknowledge this or potentially remove it? That's my question, I guess. I don't know. I've never been to a council meeting.

No, you're doing great. Typically, we hear all the comments, and then we'll have council comments where we'll address. So I will note your question, and we can get to it. Thank you so much for being here, Alex. Thank you. Beth Belcher? Not here. Susan Reddy? Thank you for being here. Name and address, please.

My name is Susan Rady. I live at 505 Paris Street in Graham. First, I want to comment on something here, and that is I don't understand the council's process because city council will review and discuss the process for declaring the Downstown Park as surplus property is not an action item. That's a discussion item. So I don't understand how you ended up voting. But I admit I don't understand your process. I am amazed and appalled by this attempted land grab. This land was donated to the city for the purpose of establishing Sesquicentennial Park. Some of us remember that, and the fact that members of city council did not live here at the time does not relieve them from the responsibility to honor the spirit of this gift. Most cities would consider ownership of a piece of land downtown to be a highly prized possession, not a surplus piece of land. This proposal is clearly the antithesis of the spirit in which this land was donated to the city. The city has a covenant with its citizens to keep this land and its... I'm sorry, I can't read my own writing. I jotted it very quickly as people were talking. Anyway, and it's committed, I think the city has a covenant with its citizens to keep this land and to reestablish the park. To do otherwise is to steal this land from the citizens. Shame on any one of you who votes in favor of this proposal. You will be a common thief. The historic building is gone. It cannot be restored. Downtown Graham does not need another underutilized building. $20,000 a year to maintain that park is cheap.

Thank you. Linda Barnhill?

I have a concern and a question.

Can you start with your name and address? Thank you so much.

Linda Barnhill, 404 Forest Drive, Graham. What else?

That's it. Now you can launch in. You're good. All right.

I had a concern about the surplus sale and the method of doing it because I'm not naive enough to think that once you sell a piece of property or a car or a house, you have any control over it. But I do have some concerns that that little square of property in the square monogram, and Bobby, you talked about the historic significance of it, But I have a concern that once it's sold, especially if it's sold in electronic bidding, that Graham won't have any say over how it's built, what's built, how it's used, and what they might want to do in the future. And that's a bit of a concern with such a historic area right in the middle of Graham. I know my husband and I used to walk around Graham every night before he passed away. And to think of something, a busy hotel or whatever, that might not be something that would duplicate or imitate the historic significance of what has been there in the past, whether it be the old buildings, or sesquicentennial park um i feel like the city of graham won't have enough say over what goes there or when whoever buys it sells it again and what it could be sold for and that's my concern about it that we might not have any influence on what is right here square in the middle of Graham. And Bobby, I know that's a concern of yours too. And so if you could maybe investigate a way that we could have some influence over if, and I would love to back for sentimental reasons, but if it should not be able to be there you know, if we could have some say or control or some grand history for that spot. And so...

Thank you, Ms. Linda. Charlene? Name and address, please, ma'am.

Um, Charlene Miles, 230 Auto Park Drive, Graham, North Carolina. Good evening, Mayor Dickey and council members. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak today about an issue that has the potential to change lives for families throughout Alamance County. Many people know the Housing Choice Voucher Program, commonly known as Section 8, as a rental assistance program. However, many don't realize that for qualified participants, these same housing subsidies can sometimes be used to help families become homeowners instead of long-time renters. Organizations like the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America, which is known as NACA, have created a pathway to affordable homeownership By offering no down payment, no closing costs, no private mortgage insurance, and below market interest rates for eligible buyers. For many working families, this program removes barriers that have made homeownership seem impossible. By creating stronger partnerships between local housing authority, community organizations, and the NACA program, Alamance County has the opportunity to help Section 8 recipients move from renting to owning. Homeownership bills equity creates financial stability strengthens neighborhoods and allows families to invest in their own communities for generations to come instead of leaving this County to surrounding counties that support the program. Homeowners are often more connected to their neighborhoods. Local businesses benefit from increased economic stability and communities experience stronger long-term growth, helping families purchase homes, can also reduce demand for long-term rental assistance. I respectfully encourage our local leaders to explore ways to increase awareness of the Section 8 home ownership option, strengthen collaboration with NACA, and provide educational workshops that guide interested families through the home buying process. Many eligible families simply do not know these opportunities exist. Everyone deserves the opportunity to build a future through home ownership. By working together, we can make that opportunity more accessible for families throughout the county. Thank you for your time, leadership, and your commitment to expanding affordable housing opportunities in our community. I appreciate your consideration and look forward to seeing what we can accomplish together.

Ms. Charlene, can you say the NACA? It's Neighborhood Assistance. Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America. Corporation of America. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Any questions, anybody?

Do you have information you can give to the city manager? I do. Would you do that after? I appreciate it.

Thank you, Ms. Charlene. Randy Phillips. Name and address, please, sir.

Randy Phillips, 130 Burton Street, Graham. It came up tonight about the park that Seems like this city council wants to get rid of it, or a few members of it want to get rid of it, because it's costing the city money. And I have heard from at least one council member that that park had not brought in any money. Now it comes to my attention that there are at least four other pieces of property in the city that would fall under that same category. Why are those four properties not put up for sale as well? And I'm sure you're probably wondering what properties they are. Oakley Park, how much money has that park brought in? How much does it cost this city to maintain? North Marshall Park, same thing. How much does it cost to maintain, and how much money has it brought in? Greenway Park. I'm not talking about the whole park. There is a park in there that is called Greenway Park. How much money does it bring in, and how much does it cost to maintain? Harmon Park. Same deal. So why are these not put up for sale as well? They fall under the same category as that park up there on Court Square. Thank you.

Thank you, Randy. Sam. Thanks for being here. Name and address, please.

Sam Cahoon, 219 South Melville Street. The first thing I said here, Julie will recall this, is that I despise government. I hate it. This is the worst thing ever. Laws for thee, not for me. You want to talk about what we can come up here and talk about? You make a rule for that. I came up with a rule for you that was already written down, and you try to weasel your way out of it. But that's what happens here, right? That's what happens. And then you want to say, oh, I'm honorable to the country that still makes laws for thee, not for me, right? It continues to happen. We bicker about money that's going to be gone here soon. You fight about Republican and Democrat, it's the same bird. It's the same bird. When you call someone a Democrat, come back with a Republican, it's stupid. When you make that argument, it's ridiculous. And you laugh about it.

I'm not a Republican.

It doesn't matter. You're in the seat. You're in the seat of government. And all that means is just control. Govern. Control. That's what it means. Okay? And then now we got flock cameras everywhere. Again, laws for thee, not for me. And didn't you get somebody to find out who said something to you or threatened you or something? That the police said that they didn't really do anything wrong, right? In the newspaper, right? That we went to someone's house. Found out who they were. I believe that's abuse of power. And that's all I want to say. That as soon people are going to figure this out, that this whole charade is going to come down. And I just want to let you guys know that that's what's going to happen. Thank you.

Thanks, Liam.

Name and address, please, ma'am. Rebecca Bench, 125 Montree Lane, Graham, North Carolina. I didn't plan to speak tonight. Boy, did my plans change. I just wanted to say that regardless of disagreements, regardless of issues that council members and mayor disagree on, I expect etiquette for my elected officials. I expect that the mayor that I voted for Whether or not I voted for, but the mayor that I voted for gets to speak and not get yelled at in the middle of her speaking. Um, I have a very strong sense of justice. And when I see, um, someone being a hypocrite, it really makes me angry. So you can, oh yeah, you can chuckle if you want to, but she was speaking. there were many times where she was speaking and she was disrespected on a basic level, basic level. Now these could be like tiny, like little issues that don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. But the, the whole thing that I want to say is that I didn't expect for a city city council meeting of Graham, North Carolina to elevate my blood pressure and have me shake it. Because I'm angry at what I witnessed here tonight. There should be decorum. There should be etiquette. There should be respect. Because we're all here for the same reasons. We care about this town. Right? And she's sitting there for a reason. I didn't vote for you guys. Sorry. I voted for her, though. But like I said, even if I hadn't have voted for her, I would have expected her to be treated better than she was tonight. And if this is how they've been going, every city council meeting has been like this, shame on you. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay. City staff comments. Megan, do you want to start?

I don't have any.

Thank you. OK. Aaron?

Yes, Mayor. I have one comment and one public service announcement. First one, so with the, I don't know if council's ready for this or not, but with the stall that we've had with the West Elm Street Park, does council, because we do have contractors who are sort of on sort of a timeline for us to get back to them on certain Are we at a point where we're ready to pull that application from the approval that we got from HRC, or are we going to keep that in place? Because I guess we need to kind of have an idea of where we're going forward with that.

You're referring to the moving of Sesquicentennial Park to the parking lot beside?

I'm not talking about moving anything. Right.

But that's the park that you're talking about. Okay. So the question is, is council interested in moving forward in that project? Are we ready to pull that project?

Right. Because they are painting sun. Right.

Right. Okay. My opinion would be to pull the project. Bonnie? I agree.

I agree.

Pull the project. Okay. All right. Anything else?

Public service.

Yes, please.

I'm not sure if everybody knows we're in a drought and the city of Graham has asked citizens to voluntarily conserve water. Um, as with everybody else in the area, there has not been enough water hitting the ground that we're basically asking you to go back to filling your swimming pools and washing all your cars and taking 65 minute showers. Um, We are still asking the citizens and residents to please be mindful and keep that in mind that we're not alone in this. We are still in a drought, and we do ask that folks be responsible as we are trying to conserve water.

And that's with everybody in Alamance County as well. And North Carolina, really. Okay. Anything else? Renee? The Graham Authority application is out. Are there any other boards that are out for application? ABC still has? Okay. Brian, do you have any updates? Okay, great. Who wants to start for council comments? Bonnie, I'll start with you. Sure.

I have a list of things. First of all, we do actually have rules of procedure. It's 18 pages. And we're not just making these up as we go. The mayor, when she came on board, she wanted us to have rules of operation. It's because we didn't really have any. And the result was this 18-page document. And when someone is not following those rules, we would be remiss if we did not point it out, talk about hypocritical, first of all. So I wanted to make that clear. Second of all, it's my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, The deed for the property that the Susquehanna Centennial Park was built on, it shows that Graham paid for that land. It was not donated. The park was donated and the land was not. Is that correct? Am I correct in saying that?

I'm looking at the deed right now and it does look like Graham purchased it, $110 worth of excise tax, which would be $55,000. Okay.

I just wanted to make that clear. Also, I wanted to thank Chuck Talley and his crew for putting out the flags on July 3rd on Maine and Maple. I wanted to thank Alcovets for putting out or getting the county to put out the flags on the county courthouse for the Freedom Fest this past weekend. The county's flags were badly damaged from being hung up there for so long. So Alcovets donated their flags for them to put them out. They had to get permits to do that. Also, I want to talk a little bit about since This was such a brouhaha tonight. Chain of command. The council has a chain of command. There's only two, we only hire and fire the city manager and the city attorney. No other city employees work for city council. We are not supposed to approach other employees and discuss city business with them. without going through the city manager. And if the city manager is not available or she's out that day and the assistant city manager is in the city manager capacity, we can go through him. So the standard procedure for us is we don't We don't engage with city employees, you know, regarding city business. We don't interfere with them doing their jobs. We don't get in their way. We go through the city manager and we should be calling the city manager or emailing or texting the city manager and asking if she is available. And if we need to speak with a head of a department or something like that, we go through her. And I just want to make sure I would like to get each council member to agree that this is how we do things. This is the standard that we should follow. So, I mean, Councilman Chen, do you agree? Oh, absolutely. Mayor Dickey, do you agree? No.

That's the way we do things.

Councilman Hall? Yes, sir.

Yes, ma'am.

Councilman Young?

Yes.

OK. All right, I've also given, at the last meeting, the mayor had asked us, she had brought up the powers of the mayor because we had had another issue over a proclamation. I think you remember that. And I sent, Erin, could you bring up those slides that I sent you? Because we brought up the North Carolina General Statute 160A, and talked about that. If you could bring it up there. A lot of stuff. Okay. Okay, and this is what we had talked about, you know, where it basically... Okay, are we good? Okay. And this is what we talked about. Well, because the mayor had asked us to look into this statute and what the mayor's powers were, I also found, if you'll go to the next slide, where it says on 168.69 that in a city where you have a separately elected mayor, the mayor shall preside at all council meetings. but shall have the right to vote only when there are equal numbers of votes in the affirmative and in the negative. And I noticed that our charter is incorrect. It doesn't show that. And I did check into other municipalities to find out what they were doing. I went on the NorthCarolinaLegislature.gov, looked up 25 different municipalities that had separately elected mayors to see how they did their voting. And 20 of the 25 do it this way, including Elon, Gibsonville, Mebane, Charlotte, and the list goes on. So I would like to get a consensus of council to direct city staff to get with our legal staff and see and get our charter changed to read this way so that it echoes what the I just think this is the way we should be doing things.

That's not for that. Brian?

Hold on, guys. Brian, can you speak to this, please?

That would take me a little while to look into that. Yeah. I think it is something we need to do. There's a way to amend the charter. I just don't know.

Well, and that's what I was going to ask is to get a consensus for you to look into how to amend the charter to follow this language.

What would need to be done to amend the charter?

And that's all I was trying to do, but I got cut off. So, no, no, no. I got cut off. Stop cutting me off.

So I have more comments.

I wanted to get a consensus of council to direct the staff to look into that. I mean, do you agree? Councilman Chen, Mayor Dickey?

I hold on that. I think this is a bigger conversation, as I do with many things. A lot of the towns that you mentioned have a mayoral term of four years instead of two years. So there's a lot more at play just to not all of them. Not all of them. So hold on. So I'm hearing... No, I'm a no, but I'm trying to give context for other people. So you're a yes? Are you giving consensus? Is anybody? Yes. Okay. So city staff has consensus to look into amending our charter. What did... Did you... Oh, okay.

She's right. It's a bigger question, but I think we have to have a consensus to discuss it.

Right, exactly. And that's what I was trying to do. But I got cut off, so...

Do you have any other comments, Bonnie?

No, I'm done. OK. Bobby? One thing, public service announcement. The Potomac Triad has a program for winterization of your home. I gave the brochure to Megan, and it should be posted to the city of Graham, where if you read it, there is money to winterize your home. So please take a moment, go and read it. And if you are eligible, please apply for it.

CHRISTIE WOODARD- You good? Awesome. Ricky? RICKY GILMORE- I'm good. CHRISTIE WOODARD- OK.

Yeah, well, I've got a few things. Aaron, the banners that were brought up, aren't they ordered? We're just waiting on them?

So we've been working with the banner company. The Appearance Commission will be receiving the renderings so that they can approve us to go purchase them. I want to say at the August meeting. So we're actually moving

I knew it had been discussed just so the people could know. I'm feeling a little convicted because I talk about everybody having passion for what they believe. I kind of lost it earlier and I want to apologize. I'm not going to apologize for being passionate about what I feel and what I think. Um, I do think what I brought up deserve being brought up, but, uh, you know, I, I hear my mom in the back of my head, you know, I'm about ready to get a butt whip and, um, I was raised better than that. And, uh, you know, if I offended anybody, I apologize. Um, I just, you know, I, I, I kind of lost my temper a little bit and, uh, just let my mouth take over. So I'm gonna, um, you know, take my foot out. And, uh, I have one other thing I would like to discuss. Um, and this is, uh, not as a, as a councilman. Um, but, uh, I'm, I don't know if anybody's heard of the taking care of veterans act, um, that, uh, they're getting ready to decide. And, uh, I wrote this in this, it's real hard to see because the letters are so small and I'm going blind. Um, uh, mayor, fellow council members and those in attendance, uh, I'd like to take a moment to speak, not as a representative of the city of Graham, but as a veteran. Congress is currently considering the Take Care of Americans Veterans Act. While the bill contains provisions that would help many veterans, there are serious concerns that some of these benefits would be funded by reducing or offsetting future disability compensation for other disabled veterans. Several major veterans organizations, including the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the Disabled American Veterans I know the American Legion as well, have urged Congress to remove those provisions and find another way to pay for the bill. I believe our nation should never ask one group of disabled veterans to pay for benefits provided to another. Veterans earn these benefits through their service and sacrifice. They are not budget offsets. If you care about this issue, I encourage you to contact your members of Congress and asked them to protect veterans' earned disability compensation while continuing to support legislation that strengthens benefits for all who have served. Veterans kept their promise to America. America should keep its promise to its veterans. I appreciate you letting me speak. What that is doing, there are some veterans who have lost limbs, but they're getting along and their life pretty well. They're living their life as best they can. And you would never know, to see some of them, that they had any kind of disability. So in some cases, the VA looks at that as they're cured. Whatever limb they lost has grown back magically. So they want to take away those benefits, since they're getting along so well. So I urge everybody, and maybe Tom, You could put something in the paper about it and that would be great. I appreciate you letting me speak and that's all I got.

Thank you, Jim. Okay. Starting with public comments, Megan, what Ronnie was bringing up with the BAS being full, is there anything in our contract if BAS is full that there's, we get some kind of compensation back or anything like that because they're not

taking our our strays or i don't recall specific language like that in our contract with burlington animal services what i would encourage mr isley or anyone who experiences that is to let us know at the city because in our conversations with burlington i believe the quote was the answer should never be no just an outright no that it may be can you hold the animal for a day or two or something. So I think if we're paying for a service, obviously that's subject to limitations based on capacity of the shelter itself. But if there are issues, I would encourage the citizens to let us know so that we can reach out to Burlington to figure out if there's some miscommunication or or something happening.

Okay, awesome. Thank you. Um, He mentioned that. He mentioned you got banners. Alex, you talked about flock cameras. Right now, where the contract stands is that the city has entered into that contract. Now, other towns, like you've said, have been taking those down. And so what we've heard from our police department is that it is helpful for their operations. If there are more people than the community that are upset and would like to see this, I would encourage just a list or people come to talk because it is a real concern. And we do want to hear from you. So thank you for bringing that up. Linda mentioned controlling what the park does. should be. Is there anywhere, Brian, in the declaration of surplus that we can say we want this land to be X, Y, Z?

You know, I guess the council could certainly put restrictions on the property. You know, reasonable restrictions. I think the more restrictions you put, the less valuable the property's going to be, though. And you're going to get an appraisal you know, I think need to know what the restrictions are going to be so they can appraise it properly. Sure.

Reasonable restrictions, could you say less than three stories or maximum historic?

It's going to be restricted somewhat because it's in the historic district and it's in the business, you know, its own business. So there are only going to be certain things that can go there anyway. You can put further restrictions on it, though. I mean, that would be something you could look into.

Would council entertain putting further restrictions?

Absolutely.

Sure.

Yes. Absolutely.

Staff, that's what y'all need to know from us right now, though, right?

At the next meeting, city staff will bring back the proposed resolution and advertisement and everything based on the action taken tonight. It would be helpful to know some of those in advance. There doesn't have to be action taken in August. If you want to talk about it in August and what those restrictions may be and then a resolution is adopted later. As long as we meet the statutory deadlines of once we start advertising, we're fine.

So I would ask council to think about what kind of restrictions we would want to see and then bring that to the August meeting. And then about the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America, if we could get more information. I'm very interested in that. And then my last bit is I know through the budget process, council had frozen the beautification grants. Aaron, do you have an update of when that will be unfrozen? I have businesses asking for that application to be open.

Yeah, so I've been working with the planning staff and what we found was that it's, we're going to bring back something to council in August for council to look at. The difficulty of rolling an internal renovation with two boards that focus on exterior changes might be somewhat difficult. If it's going to be something that's going to be internal renovations, it may need to stand on its own because the criteria that governs how HRC issues, COAs, has nothing to do with internal changes and they don't go inside the buildings. And I think that would probably create some issues for the two boards if what we've set them up to look at has been all external changes. Not saying that we can't have grant money available for internal stuff. I just don't know if those two boards would be the right boards to be able to handle those requests. So we're going to bring something back in August. And obviously, council can direct us how they would like us to go. Um, generally all this is about the time that we start advertising for grant applications anyway. So it's not that we're getting behind, but we would want to get some guidance from council.

Okay. Last two things I'll say, I'll add a public service announcement with everybody else. July 28th, we'll have our Thursdays at 7 concert series downtown if you want to come and dance with us. And then August 4th is National Night Out 5 to 8, and we've got them at the locations or at the parks this year. So check out Parks and Rec Facebook pages.

This Saturday, Mason Lovett will be playing at The Colonial Hardware Amphitheater is 7 o'clock, so please come.

And with that, we will take a motion to go into closed session.

I make a motion to go into closed session. Second.

All in favor? Aye.

May I ask that you read the full motion and cite the statute, please?

Who made the motion? Bobby?

Ricky.

Ricky.

City Council will consider going into closed session to consult with the attorney in accordance with NCGS section 143-318111A3, City of Mebane versus City of Graham, case number 25, Charlie Victor 007126-000. I second.

All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Thank you guys so much for attending.

Thank you. How do you turn the power off on this?

Yeah, it's the whole top button.

Top button. Oh.

And so it gives you the little, say, slight power off.

Ah. Ahem. I'm still learning all the ins and out of them. As soon as we get Ricky back.

It was terrible there.

Yeah.

All right.

I need a motion and a second to adjourn.

Oh, sorry.

I'm sorry. Sorry. We have to reopen.

I'd like to make a motion we return to open session. Second.

All in favor? Aye.

Make a motion we return.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Thanks, guys. Have a good night.

Alrighty.