Select Board - Regular Meeting

meeting to order. Um, we have one item on the agenda tonight that is the uh continuation of the dog hearing. Um, can take a a motion to continue. So moved. Second. All right. With hearings, we It's up to you. Either way, you got to take the vote now and then you can decide what you're going to do. We have a motion to open the hearing. Anyone want to uh I move the board vote. Aar did. I'm sorry. Second. Yep. Thank you. Okay. Uh, any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? I

I um Okay. So, continuing this hearing from from uh earlier this month. Um, is there anything that the board would like to discuss beforehand or uh I guess recap? Um, I was wondering if um, excuse me, uh, if we want to have, um, Miss Osceland come back up briefly to discuss how things have gone over the last month or, um, yeah, if if we just want to get into any additional questions. So, opening it up for some input from the board.

Yeah. interested in how things have gone. Okay, I can come up. It's fine. Happy for a refresher if you want. Sure. Sure. All right. Yeah. Uh, Miss Osen, if you want to come back up. Yeah, I Sorry. I'll wait till I get up here. I'm a little slow today. Sorry. Okay. I'll remind you that you're still sworn in from last time.

Oh, I was just going to do that. Okay. I almost forgot for a second. Um, from last time we were doing pretty good. They brought us to court for uh harassment. It got thrown out very quickly. The judge was it was thrown out very quickly. But in the process of them doing that, I got the rest of the police report, which I was missing um from my dog bite incident, which I didn't even realize I was missing, which is a complete incident on the cop meeting the dog, which is his encounter of what he sees in the dog. So, I think that's very important because like I was trying to tell you guys, there's two dogs. The service dog isn't the one that bit me. A service dog that's for fainting would be with her at work, not in the hallway biting me. And this is from the officer similar. He says, and this is on 121825, when Gonzaga exited the apartment with the dog, a medium-sized pitbull looking dog, it dragged him down the stairs. It was clear he has no control over the dog. The dog was untrained and definitely not a service animal. When it got to the landing, it was jumping and trying to pull towards me, and he had limited control of this dog. As I stated, it was clear the dog was a pet and not a service animal. I asked what services the dog provided. He said it alerts his girlfriend, the owner, of fainting spells, that she needs the dog to be notified of her spells. I then pointed out how she was at work and the dog was at home, not with her handler. I asked why, and he did not have an answer. And this is from the police officer that day. That was the dog I got bit by. So, I'm just letting you guys know because I found out from my neighbor that if I didn't get bit on the

street, you guys aren't going to do this, which is fine. My family doesn't have a car, so we walk everywhere. And I just want it on record cuz the next time we get bit, which will happen again, cuz this dog, this one, is vicious. I'm not just going to sue them then because I came here for help. So, my landlord's helping, but the town of Grafton is supposed to protect its people. Even the cop says how this dog is. A service dog does not bite, does not jump, does not pull. I worked in a nursing home. They had therapy dogs that came all the time. It didn't do any of those things. And if it was the service dog that bit me, then why wasn't it with her and her 10-hour day? It sits at home every day, the dog that bit me. So, it's not a service dog and it's a dangerous dog for me. And I just wanted to make sure you guys realize that because once we went to court, he got his 20 minute talk. I got three minutes into it. Didn't even show the judge my paperwork. She said, "Is this all over the dog bite?" I said, "Yes." Case dismissed. And she threw it out cuz she thought it was ridiculous. I mean, these people say they don't like cameras, but they have one on the front of the house. They have one on the back of the house, and they walk around with them. But yet they tell you guys, which is a lie, from last month, I don't like to be videoed, which is a lie because I even have pictures of their cameras. They have cameras. They walk around with them even. So, it's okay for them to video the whole neighborhood and everybody else, but no one can take a video of them. You see where I'm going with this? And I also had a question. Do you guys have a pooper scooper law here? I don't believe we have anything informed.

Okay, you guys might want to think about that though. Just letting you know, but I don't know if you guys have any questions for me though. I have a question and I probably have a few questions. So, um, and I was in Michigan when I was listening watching this meeting on the So, I um and I tried to do as much research as I could. So, there's two dogs. Yes. That's why I showed a picture. Yep. So, I see a picture here and I think it's sitting with you. This just Yeah, she's the owner. She's had them seven years. These are two dogs. Two dogs. Are you saying that the one We thought one dog There's an allegation that one dog bit you when I was in Michigan. Now it's a different dog bit you. No, the same dog bit me. But what they're trying to

allegedly bit you? No, it definitely bit me. The paperwork I even gave you. There does seem to be some inconsistency with that. Oh, no. The diagnosis on the paperwork says dog bite from the hospital. And it actually says that from even the surge uh the surgeon person that sewed me up. It even says on there just really quick just so there's two dogs. Well, actually they have three, but there is two big dogs. But what I'm telling you is it's not the service dog that bit me. If there is a service dog that goes with her to work like they're claiming, it's not the one that bit me. The one that bit me is the one that's in the house all day. Is that the dog that was in the video? No. If there was a service dog in the video, it wouldn't be the same.

Hang on one second. I just want to ask my uh the team here. There's a video. I have it up. Dog's playing with the with the um the trainer for evaluation. He's pushing him, whatever. And the dog's like just wagging his tail. Is that the dog that So, so we got the owner here. I would Yep. Probably ask the owner. Well, I guess. Okay. So, I'm confused now, too. Excuse me. I'm confused now, too. Yep. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Cuz usually I'm alone in the confusion. At this point,

all that I know is the one that bit me is the one that's home all day. Is the one that she actually has in her care that she has to keep because it's vicious. She has to keep it from the other one. The one that's at our house is vicious and can't be near the nicer one. So, it stays at our house while the nicer one doesn't. So, the vicious one bit me and the nicer one doesn't live there anymore. So, the service one that you guys seen the video for, no more. That's uh Can I ask him some questions real quick? Bring him up once if we're Do you want this paper from the cop or No, cuz it was his statement of what he's saying cuz it's totally the opposite of how they're acting like this dog is.

She did. Um, do you want me to just put it here? Or give it here. I'll give it give it to the chair and then we can the chair. The chairman. He's the boss appoint. you know, I'm just going to suggest um you know, uh that that we consult with council and and the town administrator before we make decisions like accepting this. Um just I I part of the police report. It's actually the other protocol here though some protocol. He's he's talking about something else. Um one thing I didn't realize and I don't understand I don't think you can be standing. I'm a little nervous now.

Oh, sorry. No, one thing I didn't understand is the first part of that page we had and I gave it to you guys the first time. Okay. The cops never gave us the other part. I don't know why when I we went to the police station and got copies of all the reports for the first time, we didn't have that one. The only reason we got it is for the court case. Got it. Al, any more questions before I move? Not right now. Okay. I'm definitely not an attorney, but can I ask you a few questions? Can you Can we Hold on a second. Sorry. Yep. Sorry. Go ahead, Andy. Just one second, please. So, I I guess in starting, is is the board comfortable with the assessment that they received of the police report, or is this something that we'd like to pause for a few minutes so everybody has a chance to read individually?

Well, that's why I'm if I can, I'm just trying to find exactly what we've received. I know we did receive some We did We did not receive this one. Okay. This would be brand new, but we can have Will make copies or, you know, hand it off, whatever whatever the board sees fit at this point. And the other thing I think he should look and authenticated dog. Yes. Yeah. So I'd be interested in having that copied and just so we can all have it in front of us. I think that makes some sense. Okay. I do want to consider this as evidence because we're here at the hearing was brought, but I'm not completely clear which dog this is talking about. So that all needs to be sorted out.

Right. Um would everybody be comfortable with uh asking Will to make copies of this and in the interim we can ask Mr. Gonzaga to come up and discuss the clarification between the two dogs and then we'll take an opportunity to pause and and read through the police report. Sure. Agreeable. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Um, I'm just as confused as you guys are about this two dogs. I don't know where this other dog came from. I don't know what dog is being talked about. I have two Jack Russell Terriers and the Ridgeback. The Ridgeback is hers. The two Jack Russell Terriers is mine. I don't know where this third dog or fourth dog is coming from. I don't understand about two big dogs. There's only one. Can I ask you to show me this picture that's allegedly about two dogs? Cuz Well, can I It's Yeah. Yeah. Just don't don't beat me up. Yeah. No, I don't very sensitive to violence. Two dogs. Is that I don't know who I

If I might, I don't think we have a picture of two dogs. So, it's in the packet. Hang on one second, please. Yeah. Um sent us PDF I think earlier in the week that had uh all the materials that um had been submitted at the last hearing. Okay. Um Okay, I'll stand down. Go ahead. In the new packet, it's page 15. Okay, Mr. Chair,

I have never met that other dog in my life. I don't even know the dog's name from what I can see from the picture. That is a picture about five years old for when she was with her ex. And that's the dog that she owned prior that I haven't I don't even know the name of that dog. That that is not our dog. It has never been in this house. I don't know what that dog is.

Miss Rubu, do you want to come up and uh you know, as as you're the owner here, um just I guess make that clarification for us. There is a picture from November of 2021 uh that was submitted with of you sitting with two different dogs of course. So both of those dogs were in they were both mine when I went through a separation about it was what four years ago now. We had when we split we also split the the two dogs. Okay. I have the older one and my ex has the younger one. The older one is Zeus. Exactly. that. And again, that's the dog that we saw in the video that you've you've provided the um the paperwork for as well.

That's the dog that the the um dog officer met. She can attest that that is the dog on the video is the same dog that she went and met. That's it's always been Zeus. And Zeus is the only dog that I know. I don't even know the other dog's name. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that, Mr. Elmo. What's your uh Is Zeus the dog that is alleged to have bitten? Yes. And is this is this the Zeus that's in this video? Yes. Hold on a second. You're going to see him come in with the tail wagon in a second.

Sorry. That is Zeus. This is Zeus. That's Zeus. Okay. Okay. So, a little confused about the other dog situation. Me, too. I was there with Zeus and I, like I said, I never met the other dog. I don't even know. Okay. How they got that picture because That photo is posted on my social media in case you're wondering. There it is.

So, how does that wind up in the packet? It was It was submitted as evidence as your public. You can consider it for the weight you think it deserved. Okay. There's not really formal rules of evidence for this type of a hearing. Thank you. Okay. Have you ever had any other problems with Zeus? No. Has uh has Zeus exhibited behavior that doesn't look like this else at any other time? Absolutely not. Has anybody complained about Zeus? And the dog officer even contacted where she used to live before and there was nothing. There's never been an incident ever.

Um so I uh I adopted a skittish many years ago skittish dog. Um, and she didn't like dudes for a little while and you could tell she was super loyal to me, but we trained her and you could do that and she'd sit. What kind of training do you have with you? And I and I did that on purpose because I was worried that there could be, you know, you never know. She had a tough life early going. What kind of training have you had with Zeus? I have not had any training because she's had him her whole life. I came I came into her life about a year ago. Sorry. March. Yep. So, no, you're fine. I've done all of the training with him. I got him in 2019 at 8 weeks old. He's been with me ever since.

What kind of dog is he? He has a rich back mix. Okay. And like the the the guy says sit, he sits. So, is were you dragged down the stairs or something? So, is that I guess I I guess I'm confused by that part, too. Me, too. I am confused. I walked down the stairs with him. Yeah. I was not I was never dragged down the stairs. He's He's 87 pounds. I let him go in front of me, but I can hold him back. Yeah. Like I'm I'm very fit. I can hold him back. He's never He doesn't drag, doesn't pull, doesn't do any of that, right?

And I hold him on a short leash and I walk down and he's in front of me, but I'm It's because the stairs are very narrow. Yep. So, he's in front of me because we can't be next to each other. Y and he's not behind me because I don't want to pull him down. So, okay.

I don't know. And I told officer Similar. I said, "Let's go outside for you to meet the dog because I don't want him to get excited and try to like lick you or go on you." And then he said, "Well, if he's going to try to do that, he's not a service dog." I'm like, "He is a service dog. He's her service dog. He helps her." And then he never asked me, "Oh, why is he not with her?" Because being a service dog, they have different there's different things that a service dog does. It doesn't mean that he has to be with her all the time. Um, may I ask why you need a service dog?

So, I got when I had talked to people in regards to some medical conditions that I have as far as like low blood pressure and all that, I have basically just dropped on the ground. Didn't have any warning. And he usually does all of that for me. He'll get me to sit down. I also struggle from migraines. And he will go and get me calm down and also get my medication out of the cabinet. So, I mean, those are just like the small things that he does for me and that's why I got him certified. Okay. I don't want to I feel like I'm hogging the floor. Up to you, you guys. Anybody else?

I guess just to completely clarify the the dog that we saw in the video is the same dog that is has allegedly committed this right in this video. Absolutely. The dog on the video is the same dog that allegedly bit her everything. It's the same exact dog. Okay. And with regards to the actual incident, um your recollection of it was that um she was backing up and Zeus jumped and then she she was on the in front of her door. Yeah.

She said hi to the little one. She's like, "Can I say hi to the older one, the big one?" I said, "Yeah, go ahead." And then she was saying hi. Oh, beautiful. What? Like whatever. And then she like went down and then he moved and then they collided. Okay. So it was a headbutt. It was a headbutt. Yeah,

it was a headbutt. My belief, my honest belief is that he tried to lick her and it just so happened that the headbutt happened. He's a big dog. He's 87 pounds. He never meant to harm her. It wasn't an attack. It was an accident. It was an incident that happened. It wasn't a, "Oh, I'm going to hurt you." Because she started screaming. He was like looking at me like, "What's going on?" And then I brought him up and then he like you could tell that he felt like there was something wrong because he feels our emotions by being a service animal and he just laid in his crate all day like there was something wrong. And

it's really like for for a couple of times like he like would walk by their door and he would like sniff and like look and I'm like no no let's just go up because I mean it wasn't the dog's fault. It wasn't her fault. It was nobody's fault. It was an accident. Now, painting an accident as an attack and trying to go above and beyond and do all of this and then there was a lot of harassment involved after the fact that I try to get resolved with the court and they basically said you stay away from them, they stay away from you. This is he said, she said, so you guys just pretend there's a harassment order still in effect on both sides. And I am happy to do that. I do wear a body camera because the police station told me to have a body camera on me because I was coming out of my house and then the police showed up saying that I was knocking and banging on their walls and doors and I wasn't. So, what the police officer said is get a body camera because cameras don't lie. So, I got one, she got one. We talked to the land lady. I put a camera in the front of the house, a camera in the back of the house to film the parking lot. The owner knows this. I gave her access to the cameras and she put cameras inside the building because if something happens, it's recorded. It's on camera. So, all I want is for this to be over and for them to leave us alone and for me to leave them alone. I'm okay with wearing the muzzle while we're in the property. That's fine. But outside and just above and beyond and painting him as a dangerous animal, it's unfair. It's really unfair because of an accident. And I just want to be able to live happy and just walk in and out of my house without being yelled at, without being cursed at, without being threatened.

I'll leave them alone. They leave me alone. That's all I want. And then stop with this this dog. Okay. Attacking. Clearly something happened. Yes. Um I just I wanted to understand what your explanation of that was. Um and I just um because I also want to be respectful of Absolutely. Yeah. Miss Osland's uh fear and you know her experience and obviously there was a traumatic event that happened incidental or not. Um so I just want to wanted to be clear on what your explanation of that was. Mr. Melinda Mckendendrick is on Zoom with her hand up the animal control officer.

Okay. Um take her in in one second. Um I had one question. Can you just speak to um what was discussed that that you know if it the the dog is classified as your your service dog but it doesn't travel to work with you is uh could you clarify that at all? I mean I don't bring him to work with me because I work at a dental office. Okay. I kind of can't have a pet in the office with me and still keep the area sanitary at the end of the day. Okay. Thank So just a question. Currently the dog wears a muzzle within the apartment building and then outside just to the gate and then you're taking it off. Okay. Thank you. And that's happening currently and has

that's happening currently and happen since before the land lady actually said that we had to do it. Okay. So it's before that cuz we wanted to just stop but Okay. Thanks. Um let's uh go to Miss Mckenry please. Can you hear me? We can. Yes.

Okay. Uh, I just wanted to advise you that since the last meeting, I was able to talk with the animal control officer from North Bridge, Whitensville, where they previously came from. He has no history of any issues with this family, this dog, that old address, any of it. So, it is true. I did talk to him. There's no other issues. Is that did not see a second page to a to a police report. Hang on. Can you say that again? That last part. I I don't remember seeing any second page to a police report either. So if if you have one, I'd like to see a copy if you don't mind. Sure. We can make sure you get a copy of that. Thank you.

Okay. Um, does anybody have any additional questions for uh Mr. Gonzaga and Mr. Robu? No. Does anybody have any additional question? You can be seated if you like. Thank you. Um, does anybody have any additional questions for the Osceland? No. Nope. Okay. Um, is this something? Are we are we ready to end the public hearing at this point? And uh,

hang on one second, please. Um, start discussing a decision or um, is there anybody else that I guess we'd like to talk to? I mean, we've already ruled out the two the two main parties. Um, any questions for the dog officer? I guess at this point Melinda does have her hand back up. Okay, let's go back to Melinda. Just one further comment. Medical offices are one place that can exclude service animals. Right. Thank you. Okay. Um, personally, I'm ready to close the

Okay. Uh, Mr. Als if you want to come back up and and make one last statement. Do you want to make one last statement? You want to make one last statement. Go ahead.

When we went to court the day we were going to court with these people, my first neighbor, she's disabled. The dogs already growled at her in the backyard. The dogs growled at me and my son the day we had a snowstorm. Not the last one, the one before. He wasn't home. She was walking the dog. It took all her might just to hold the dog and walk him and me and my son were just shoveling on the sidewalk and the dog looked over. That's before he had a muzzle before they made him put a muzzle on before the landlord ordered it to be done because the law had to get permission from her lawyer to it. So that's you I mean I just wanted you to know that I understand that the dog in that picture could be the other dog. They could have just brought the other dog. You know how you know she doesn't talk to her ex still. You know what I mean? Even in that brief thing, it says that she one of the peepers, she had to separate the dogs because they were getting one of the dogs was getting violent with the other dog. I'm sorry I had to separate you guys because you guys can't get along. So, you know what I mean? I just wanted to let you know I growled at me, sprouted my son, scrg even growled at her all. She said, "Oh, what a pretty puppy you are." And it growled at her. She said demon growled at me. And she said, and she works with mental health. She knows what my issues is, my wife's. And she even said that the dog shouldn't be growing at people. You know what I mean? It shouldn't be It's a service dog. You shouldn't do that. You know what I mean? But that's all I wanted to say. But and the cop, you know what I mean? It's the cop's the one that wrote the report, too. And he's the one who gave me a ride to the hospital. And I was with my wife for 9 hours. All we asked when we came home. My wife went in the car. I stayed in the house. She could let her go talk to her just so I wouldn't be feel she wouldn't feel intimidated that, oh, we're both out there. I sat in the house. My wife went out and said, "Hey, you know, cuz the dog bit me. I don't want to sue you guys. My wife's like, I just want to can you do a muzzle? And the first words, go [ __ ] yourself. And she said, the landlord told me to talk to you guys. Well, I didn't talk to the landlord, so go [ __ ] yourself. And that was it. So, my wife came in the house and since then, this is this thing's blown up out of control. It's just that the safety of

of the dog. And he the reason why he lost the case is because he told the cop. He told the judge, I told the judge, I buy dog spray. I sprayed the dog. I hurt his dog. I'm going to hurt him. I have a gun and I will use it on him. The judge said, "Did you just tell me you have a gun license and you'll use the gun on if he hurt you? He sprays your dog." Yes, I will. And that was what he said to the judge about the gun in court. I don't know. This is like admissible in this. Yeah. This all the stuff that started. Yep. Great. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. Um I guess refocusing our discussion as as we go to move out of this. Um you know we we are not taking any action uh towards towards either set of people in this. Our focus is on the dog. Um it is also pertaining to the dog when it is in public spaces. We cannot make any orders that the dog be muzzled in the house or on private property. Um so these are these are you know that's the the criteria we need to operate within. Um before we close the public hearing I think I'm supposed to do just a quick summary of um the evidence that has been presented so far. Um, going back to the start, we have a certificate from October 27th of 25 from USA Service Dogs. Um, that states that that Zeus has been registered as a service dog. Um, we have a copy of the the current dog license, notifications of the public hearing, um, a notification of abused person's notice of rights. Uh, Massachusetts Dog Training Services behavioral assessment of Zeus, the dog in question. Um, we have a formal written statement from Miss Robu and and Mr. Gonzaga. Um, we have a variety of police reports, um, and and call logs, um, uh, social media photo, uh, what looks like, um, a camera photo from the property. uh several photos of the bite itself and the nose area as well as uh blood on a

t-shirt and um paper towel or some other absorbing device. um notes from the ER and the care team as to uh what was presented in uh copy of the incident report from Grafton PD. uh two videos submitted along with the Massachusetts Dog Training Services Behavioral Assessment. I believe that's it. So, at this point, it sounds like we're ready to to start discussing and uh making a decision on any determination here. I believe we can close a public hearing unless there are any objections.

I'm here. Okay. No objection. All right. I move the board vote to close the hearing. Second. Okay. Motion made second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? I. Okay. Just a reminder, we cannot call anybody up to ask any additional questions at this point. The discussion is just between the board. Um would anybody like to start? I'll start.

Sure. Um, so I read pretty carefully um the uh hospital report and from what I can tell I sort of looked up the medical term that they used which was I'm not going to remember it and I'm not going to say it because it's not really relevant but anyways they used a very specific term about what the nature of the wound was. Um and uh he had described it as a laceration. Um uh you know talked uh to Miss Osland about you know tetanus and and other things and whatnot. Um I did not see in the medical report um a clear indication that this was a bite wound like that the cause of it was was an actual bite. Um although it does mention that that's what um the patient said coming into the hospital. So to me that was a relevant relevant bit of information. Um, I um looked up the certificate for the service animal. Um, and uh that company is a they're a company that registers service animals. Um, but we've heard um from the owner that there was no formal training. there was um owner training but not any kind of formal training as a service dog. Um and uh from what I read about this company um it basically just is a registry of dogs and you can pay to have your dog registered as a service animal

and it gets put on the registry and you get a certificate. Um, so to me, this whole idea of the service dog and how they're supposed to behave and not behave, um, I just don't place a lot of weight in whether this was a service dog or not. Um, from what I understand, there was some, uh, you know, there is some benefit to the dog being with the owner, um, in terms of some medical conditions and whatnot, but it does not seem like this is a like uh, therapy type dog that's been through extensive training um, as far as behavioral um, issues. Um and and to me that was confirmed by the report from the assessment that was done. Um the assessment said pretty clearly it's a reasonably well- behaved dog. It's a pet clearly, you know, so it's been described as a pet pet several times. Um so I would put it this particular dog way more in the a pet category than a than a service animal category. Um I don't and I'm not a dog guy, right? So, I it's all this is a little bit foreign to me, but um I've spent time around lots of dogs that have growled for various reasons, and that's not necessarily uh an indication that the dog wants to hurt me. And I I sort of never really take it as that. Sometimes it's a warning like this. Dogs have behaviors like that. They growl. That's one of their sort of behaviors. Um and uh the fact that the um owner put up and is wearing cameras to provide evidence that sort of in support of the dog's continued good behavior to me is a pretty pretty strong indicator that uh

the owner believes really in in the dog and that it's not going to be a danger to anybody. Um so so to me and and I sort of I believe what the owner said about the incidental contact. Clearly something happened. Um there was an incident. Um you know sounded like a fairly traumatic incident that resulted in a hospital visit. Um, and so I don't want to minimize that, but um, to to me it it seems like it would be more of an incidental thing that happened versus um, the dog was was looking to intentionally harm. That didn't look like an aggressive bite on a nose to me. It did look like a headbutt and it looked like it was pretty serious. Um, but those dogs are they they're hard-headed. Um, and this is a big dog. Uh, and I I can just very easily see the scenario where there is, you know, it might have been an aggressive like lunge towards the person, like an excited lunge because it does seem like this is a um it's not the best trained dog maybe. um and and you know so that could easily lead to um the type of headbutt that would result in the pictures that we saw from the hospital visit. Uh so for me um it you know I I would not consider this a dangerous dog. I would potentially consider it a nuisance dog and I think that gives us a lot more latitude in terms of the um actions that the board can take. um the owner has um voluntarily complied with uh with muzzling the dog. Um and I think what what I would consider is uh calling this a nuisance dog and and

asking the owner to make sure that it's muzzled um outside the apartment on the property um and leave it at that. So that's what I think. You said on the property. Yeah. Problem with that is we can't mandate that the dog be muzzled on the property. Only the property owner can do that. We can mandate that the dog be muzzled off the property in public areas. Yep. Mr. Chair,

so what um I was going to ask you a question, Chris, but before I do, Matt, I actually do have some experience with dogs. I am a dog person and I have some experience with rescue dogs and dogs that um have a little bit of a different kind of a personality and I thought I had a lap dog too. She was like laid around slept all day. But some of that other experiences is that you know you know when that dog has um has a little bit of a streak in them or her and you know that they have had some kind of traumatic experience. Again, I'll go from my personal experience. It wasn't just my experience with my dog. I have other examples in my life, but they, you know, when there's a tough dog and that hasn't been trained and I'd say that whether the dog is a service dog, officially service dog or not, um probably I don't know how that's somewhat relevant in that like it's it really makes it for a great story, but it's that it sounds like the owner did train the dog to sit, stay, come, go, whatever. So, some of that and and and I can see that. You can see that in the video.

He probably just met the dog and just said, "Sit." And he sits. He gets up, but he's wagging his tail.

And I think in almost agreeing with everything you're saying, uh, agreeing with almost everything you're saying except that, and to add to that, when I look at the dog, it just feels like I'm just not It's just not the wires are not connecting for me. And I also do know that when I play with my daughter's dog who's a big fella and he's just a big dumb puppy and we'll like he'll just jump on the, you know, on the chair with me and then he's like he's on me and before you know it there's a scrape on my face and he and I'll say, "You can't do that. I'm sorry." Like I I know what you're describing to me when you you think your dog may have been sniffing at the door to maybe extend an apology. And that might be reading too much into it, but I do have experience and dogs are like that. They're very intuitive. I just don't see that behavior. I I I have no doubt that something happened. It appears as though something happened. I am not feeling comfortable making a strong recommendation uh beyond what you think we can do. And I wouldn't call it a dangerous dog from what I can what I'm experiencing, what I'm seeing, and what I'm hearing. Maybe something something happened, but I probably wouldn't be comfortable. Like I saw the range of options here. We're not doing seven. We're not doing the last one. There's some of these are like there's just no way, you know, some of these the the range of options. It's just like what do we want to have happen here? What are our options and what what do people want to have happen here?

And I'm asking you because you're the attorney.

Sure. Um so, um there was a memo that hopefully you all had a chance to look at in the in the uh materials from our office which kind of outlines, you know, the legal standards that apply, right? So there's um you know when uh Mr. often had mentioned the nuisance dog as a potential. I mean there is a specific definition in the statute of what constitutes a nuisance dog. Um I would just be the board should be mindful what are the factual findings that would support that. Um because there's specific things that you would have to find uh to declare a nuisance dog and and um at least from what your at least from what your view of the of the facts is, you know, that it was an incidental contact. Um the dog hasn't threatened or attacked a person unless you consider that incidental contact an attack.

It's not an attack. I I don't um so I would just caution that. I mean, it's you want to make sure that whatever you decide, you know, dangerous dog, nuisance dog, or or dismiss the complaint, um, that whatever the legal standard is that you've met that legal standard if you're going to find something other than dismissing the complaint. Yeah. Got it.

Yeah. Couple things. Um, I think personally that the service dog um issue is not relevant here. Um, so that I'm not even dealing with that. And I did note that in the ER report there is a note of a hit and then there's a note of a bite. So um you know a little bit conflicting but they did talk about a laceration obviously quite frequently and that was actually what I wanted to get to is um I want to clarify I don't find this dog to be a dangerous dog and I don't think to your point in looking at what we had available to us it's even a nuisance dog. So I guess my question was, you know, under the motion for consideration, are those our three options or to dismiss? And then if we choose to dismiss, can we put any recommendations or anything more than a recommendation relative to the musling? And I understand what you say and like we can't do that on private property per se, but this is an interesting case given that um you know I read that when removed from the premises of the owner that would be their apartment within a building that neither of them owns, right? Um so what if any jurisdiction would we have given that it's not a private owner of the property who owns a dog who bit someone who's out on the street? Right.

Right. Yeah. And it's you you're you can only go by what you know authority you've been given under the statute. Okay? You know, so the statute allows you to either find it to be a dangerous dog, a nuisance dog, or to dismiss the complaint. My view would be if you dismiss the complaint, I mean, you can certainly make commentary on what you think should be done. Okay? But ultimately, like you don't have the ability to order anything at that point because you've essentially said no, it's not a dangerous talk. It's not a nuisance talk. Okay. So, even just given the um unique um housing situation here, that doesn't really still doesn't give us any Right. If there's Okay. I mean, you're you're trying to assess this the threat to the public.

Yep. Yep. Okay. So, for me, it doesn't meet the criteria for either of those. Um and then I what I didn't understand was whether or not we could put in any type of just actually to continue what's happening. quite frankly is all I was going to recommend. That's kind of what I was. Can you say that again? I'm sorry, Matt. Can you say that again, Miss Foley? I don't I for me, um, I don't find the dog to be dangerous or a nuisance dog under the the information that we have from the state. Um, and all I thought we what I was hoping we could do is just continue with what has been occurring that the dog has a muzzle when it's in the building and just in the courtyard or just outside. Yep. But it sounds like we don't won't have that

ability. Right. And that just to be that would be between, you know, between the occupant and the the landlord. You know, if they want to require it, that would be the landlord's option. Got it.

Just I guess for for public clarification, um, under Mass General Law, Chapter 140, Section 136A, a nuisance dog is defined as a dog that one, by excessive barking or other disturbance is a source of annoyance to a sick person residing in the vicinity. Two, by excessive barking causing damage or other interference. A reasonable reasonable person would find such behavior disruptive to one's quiet and peaceful enjoyment or three has deterine has threatened or attacked livestock, a domestic animal or person. But such threat or attack was not a grossly disproportionate reaction under all the circumstances.

Yeah. Um for uh again for me I think everybody else has has shared their opinions. So just closing the circle uh I I am in agreement. Um I would not find this to be a dangerous dog. Um I don't feel that it is met the requirements to be a nuisance dog. Um I did speak with town council briefly before this. Um to kind of to the point that Miss Foley raised um at at this point I think I would be um in favor of dismissing the complaint. Um but um sending a letter to the property owner and suggesting um that the muzzle remain the muzzle order that they've instituted remain in place um when the dog is on the property. We can't order them to do that, but we can ask them to continue to enforce that.

So I totally agree with that. Um and you know like Amarie, I was trying to get to some way that the board could um respect Miss Osand's fear of the dog. Yeah. Because clearly she's afraid and I I don't want to blow that off at all. Right. But yeah, reading the nuisance dog uh definition,

I don't think Sus meets any of those criteria really. So that I had thought about that. That's a good idea. Um, yeah, I'm I'm I don't really honestly know what to make of of the photos. I'm not a medical expert, you know. I I couldn't tell you that whether this was an impact or, you know, possibly like teeth grazing in a in a passing moment, you know, but I don't I don't personally feel like it was an intentional bite. Yeah, I mean, this is a huge dog. Hasn't tended to hurt. Um, I don't think it would have looked like that, but

Okay. So, it seems as though we've all come to the same conclusion on this. Um, I'm going to suggest a motion to dismiss the complaint. Uh, and also to send a letter to the property owner suggesting that the muzzle remain in place. Muz muzzle and leash um remain in place when the dog is on the property. Um I guess before ending that is is is this something that the board would like to consider would like to see happen indefinitely or um you know like again it's a suggestion so we're not we're not really mandating anything. Um, but you know, it could potentially be the suggestion could potentially be for the rest of the dog's life. So, I'm wondering if if you know, we even add a stipulation to that that we suggest that that the muzzle and leash remain in place for six months. if if there's no incident during that time um they can they can drop that that cause or would we like to see it just remain?

That sounds reasonable. I mean and this is what we want, right? We they they want to have a muzzle and they they want to have the dog on the leash in that common area. So our recommendation to the to the property owner would be, hey, can you do that? We don't have the legal authority to require that. don't think you're allowed to talk right now and that's not my call. Um but I think that's true, right? Okay. So, um that yes, I I wasn't sure if you're going to make a motion because I actually disagree. I just would like we can make a a recommendation given that we don't have any jurisdiction over what happens on this property. I'm just making a recommendation to the land lady or landlord and they can take it.

I'm saying the same thing. That's what that's what I was ramping up to. was pretty much agreeing with Andy and thinking like a six-month type of thing like to suggest recommend if you can do it for six months be great. So whatever we're are we allowed to do that. So I'm just making a recommendation. No timeline on it. Just we're making a recommendation. No timeline. We don't have the authority in my opinion to do that anyway. So okay. So yeah I think hopefully the uh owner is watching the meeting. I mean we could just say hey uh just make the recommendation in in the discussion here. Yeah, it's fine because really the only you know the only business we have to do is to choose one of these options really, right?

I don't think we're all choosing to dismiss the complaint. So go ahead. If if the board wishes to have our office summarize your discussion and you dismiss the complaint but strongly advise that you know the dog remain muzzle or whatever you want. We can certainly do that from our office and not through the through the motion. Yeah. Okay. That that is what I would like to I would like to see something in writing sent to the property owner if everybody's okay with that. I'm fine with that. Yeah. So, leave that out of the motion. Well, Evan didn't say yes yet. Oh, yeah. We'll do that.

Okay. So, I move the board vote to dismiss the complaint. Second.

Was there more to that motion? So, sorry. Motion made. Sorry, it was an abrupt motion. I know it sounded like a Emory is like this is the motion and we're uh discussion. Um yeah, we we know we want the letter sent. We don't need that to be part of the motion. We fine. Okay. Um any other feedback or discussion? Okay. All those in favor?

Sorry. Sorry. I will just note that I as Matt said and I did not um I do appreciate that the victim in this case you know obviously have an incident with a dog if any of us have you know been in that scenario. So, it's not to dismiss um that an incident occurred and that the person who's filing the complaint um you know doesn't we're not recognizing that because we are or I am so we are yeah I think that's a a very valid summary and and thank you for okay uh any additional discussion hearing none all those in favor I I okay motion passes unanimously to adjurnn yep with that motion made Enough for you, Mark? All those in favor?

I I I