Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Point of discussion on the modifications of the Charter for the Council of Urbanism to be named by the Municipal Council or the City Administrator. E is listed under the names of Jack Kelly and Mark Haddad, therefore. Please proceed. Thank you for receiving us tonight. You can go. John Kelly, 9 Countryside Road. Mark Haddad, 154 Providence Road.

We are therefore before you on behalf of the subcommittee to review the charter on Article 3 concerning the elected officials. Over the past few years, due to the different ways in which the members were chosen for the Council of Urbanism, we have had several written candidates. We have seen residents asking us if we could consider a different method to designate the members of this Council of Urbanism. Les deux méthodes dont nous avons parlé lors de notre réunion étaient la nomination par le conseil municipal ou par l'administrateur de la ville. Elle se distingue selon que le rôle de ce conseil est considéré comme plus administratif ou législatif, puisque toutes vos politiques sont approuvées par l'Assemblée municipale. We discussed as a council the fact that the attributes of this committee are rather administrative, but we do not like the idea of moving from an elected position to a position named by a non-elected individual, such as the director or the city administrator. We are therefore here to collect your comments, have a discussion on this subject and see what your current points of view are. This is not new in the state of Massachusetts. Concord has switched to this model and adopted a system where it is the director of the city who makes the nomination. Concord is obviously more comparable to us in terms of size and population. But, here, what are your first thoughts on this, unless you have something to add?

No, you have very well summarized the situation. Well, one thing I would like to add is that this is in line with a recommendation. We have collected the public's opinion and a few people have suggested that we continue in this direction. The subcommittee of Article 3 is therefore here tonight simply to obtain feedback. We must report this to the full committee, the Committee for Revision of the Charter, with the final recommendation. Making reasonable evidence of diligence therefore implies meeting you to obtain your opinions. For information, I am the president of the Committee for Revision of the Charter. This work is part of the subcommittee that was in charge of this particular article of the Charter. And as Jack noted, the entire committee has not yet discussed this specific question. Bob, I've already been there. I've already done that. Ten years ago, the city administrator tried to do that. It didn't go very well. He needed a vote in favor of two-thirds and he got a vote in favor of two-thirds during the municipal assembly. It's really a bad idea here in the city. I don't think it happened at a stage where you can see it, but I just made a comparison of the number of cities for each method. About 70% of the municipalities of Massachusetts, or nearly 245 to 250 cities, elect their commission members by ballot. About 25% to 30% of the municipalities nominate the members of their urbanism commission. Nominations are generally carried out by the municipal council, the general director, the administrator or the mayor. And then there are a few with a hybrid system where some are elected and others appointed. The law, chapter 41, section 81a, stipulates that the commission must be elected unless the city decides to change it. So we start with the election. The arguments in favor of Elections, they, a direct responsibility, members respond directly to voters rather than to municipal officials. Independence, they act outside the political directives of the executive power. And thirdly, public representation expands the representation of the community on key development policies. A designated commission allows the recruitment of specific expertise, architecture, civil engineering, law. I note that we have access to all this in our current situation. And we actually have an excellent program using very good resources. The executive alignment, better integration with the municipal administration, economic development and the objectives of the long-term directorate plan. And fewer vacancies, this avoids empty seats on bulletins in the cities where to run for election. Candidates. Them, what I do not find convincing. Anyway, them, I was against at the time and I still am.

Can I answer some of these points if you have a little time? The percentages give the impression that it is important, but even what you have highlighted, 70 municipalities across the state. No, 70%. Yes, so if you subtract the 70% that kept the election, there are still 70 municipalities that opted for this different model. I took Andover and Concord as immediate examples. These are some of the most recent changes. But speaking of the method of responsibility, the members of the council, which would be my preferred method as an individual vote for a mode of nomination, are still elected by the city. So there will always be a mechanism of responsibility. And the municipal assembly will vote on it no matter what happens, which is a good thing that you have highlighted. You know, we are not making this decision. The full review council of the charter is not making this decision. It will be up to the municipal assembly to decide. E. Regarding your point about the reduced number of vacancies, I don't really see how this would change with a municipal council. In fact, I think there would probably be shorter vacancies if the council proceeded by nomination, because it could approve the post immediately rather than launch an electoral process of several weeks. And as for responsibility, I want to be very clear before we continue. This has absolutely nothing to do with the displacement of members or, you know, individuals in particular. This has nothing to do with your ability to exercise your functions here within the urbanism committee. But how many of you faced an opposition during their elections to the municipal council?

When was that? In 1991. In fact, I had opposition two or three times. I even had a very interesting one, where I ended up in equality. Oh, well, we had. I remember. HM, I remember.

We had two direct candidates by registration at a time when there was a candidate by registration and no one removed any documents.

There were, there were many.

Less responsibility, I would say, because as an average voter, if you are not aware via social networks or if, as far as I know, the city does not make public the name of the people who have declared to want to be registered for office, this is the case. You go to the ballot boxes without knowing who your options are because no one has removed any documents. And it happened for two of the members present here. So, I don't see this change in operation as a big upheaval. Because now, instead of removing documents, collecting signatures and campaigning, all this is condensed into a meeting with the council where you explain why you want to sit in the committee, what you bring to it, and this council of elected people makes its decision. So I don't see it as such a step forward, and especially given the way this committee has been elected in this city recently, I certainly don't see it as a good thing.

Tell us more. I mean, just for those who brought the idea, what are the problems to be solved? There are not enough candidates?

I think it's just a question of continuity. You know, we have a so-called way of selecting the members of the urbanism committee, where a person withdraws documents and presents himself, but it is not always like that that we place members in the committee. We have, you know, candidates without a label who, if you go to the scrutiny, as I said, you do not know who it is. They do not appear on your bulletin. Then, there are several cases where it is the same person who presents himself. You know, you simply vote for them because they are already in the council. They always want to be in the council and always want to work. Or you have two options for two seats or one option for one seat. You do not make any decision under these conditions. And I think that the people who have expressed themselves wanted only one method to name each member of the council. And this is not new for this council, because Marlon was added by a nomination from the municipal council. Obviously, it is a different seat. He does not have the right to vote, but I think continuity was the main reason for these people.

Well, the associate member is always named. Yes, exactly. Yes. And if a seat is not provided during the scrutiny, it is a nomination. And if someone leaves the council, it is a nomination. These are one-year nominations in these cases. The main point is responsibility. The first thing that was mentioned. What we are doing has a lot to do with the future, politics and the orientation of the city. And I think we should have more elected council. We should. I would like the ZBA to be elected. I'm not sure you can do it. It may be possible. They, but they have more and more to do with what's going on. They, in fact, why don't you put it on your list? They, well, let's stick to the planning advice. I would like to hear from other people who might have questions or comments. Mike raised his hand. They, thank you. So, residents' concerns are real. You know, over the last decade, we have had several elections where no one has withdrawn from the dossier and some candidates without labels did not really reflect the voice of the people, but technically it is an election. You know, for the charter, we want to create a system that aims not only to meet the current needs, but also the future needs. And as Grafton continues to grow, I think there will be a wider range of interested people. E. You know, the continuity aspect is real. I admit it quite. E. The capacity of the municipal council to name, to replace someone who leaves the council or if no one is elected. E. I think this is a good rescue solution. E. I have some concerns, not concerning the current municipal council, but regarding the potential of a future council. Let's say we have someone charismatic, dedicated to politics, and a promoter or business leader. The capacity of the municipal council to name could create, if not a conflict of current interest, a conflict of future interest. You know, modify something in favor of future conditions to be able to move forward. I think that the inherent responsibility of an elected system is a good thing. The capacity of the municipal council to proceed with a nomination in last resort is a good thing. It could be interesting to consider, and this should go through the council, if the written votes do not reach a certain threshold, that we move on to a nomination. I think it's very delicate and legally complex. But that could solve certain situations. I think the elective system is preferable for the future. That's all there is to say. Other remarks? Yes. So? Ten years ago, I was a fervent supporter of the maintenance of an elected urbanism committee. I maintain my position and it remains unchanged. I think that one of the key points is that the Urbanism Committee is perhaps, just after the Municipal Council, a political decision-making institution, among other things. Yes, we also have regulatory responsibilities, but I think that the reason why you would like the Urbanism Committee to be elected is that we define the city's policy in two major ways. The first is zoning regulations. Each modification of the zoning regulations goes through the urban planning committee and is generally initiated by it. Zoning is therefore a policy at the scale of the entire city. It is a very important part of our role. And the other major political action we are carrying out is the director plan. And you know, both really relate to the city-scale policy. The municipal council is also partially, but not exclusively, a political decision-making body. But when your advice elaborates policies as we do, I think it is preferable for the city to be directly responsible in front of the public. It has happened in the past, although it is rare, that we have a real competition for the seats of the urbanism committee and it has happened that the public, sufficiently dissatisfied with a member of the committee, chooses to replace him with a new member during the scrutiny. Bob may know something about it, without going into the details of the past story. So, I will do that in a minute. You know, although it is not often exercised, this level of responsibility towards the public is quite real. And that may take a long time to say about the composition of the council in recent years, the fact that the public is globally satisfied with the work done. That does not mean that he should not be elected. I mean, you know, I would be happy to be a candidate until the moment when I decide that I'm done with it. You know, I never had a problem seeing my name on a ballot. If it had to change for a appointed post, I am convinced that I would be them. Named or renamed. Unless, of course, the nomination authority is a tooth against me. And although this is for the moment a pure hypothesis, it is a potential concern for a named council. The fact that the nomination authorities do not always name as much as we would like, which we would generally consider the most qualified candidate. Personal grudges, yes, have surfaced in the past and will undoubtedly do so in the future. In any case, without going into other reasons for which I think an elected council is preferable, this is really what comes to mind first. Other questions, Justin? I think I completely agree with Dave and Bob. I think that when I presented myself as a writing candidate, it was because I was simply attending meetings and that someone convinced me to take a look at the Urbanism Council. That was right. I hadn't thought about it at the time. But when I decided that yes, it was what I wanted, I tried my luck by writing, but it was too late to submit the files. So I didn't have the opportunity at that time to submit the documents and collect the signatures. Since, yes, there is a certain comfort in not having to look for signatures every three years or so, but I consider that it is a role at the service of the people. So, it's not a problem for me. You know, for me, it's a good thing that people, as Dave said, are satisfied with the way we present our opinions here and the way we do this work. Mais si quelqu'un veut se présenter, je serais ravi qu'il puisse le faire sans avoir à s'inquiéter du fait que l'autorité de nomination ne me connaisse pas, alors que j'ai de l'expérience ou que je viens d'arriver en ville après avoir travaillé 20 ans dans une commission d'urbanisme dans une ville de taille similaire. Il y a donc de nombreuses raisons pour lesquelles quelqu'un peut vouloir se présenter, sans pour autant être le choix privilégié pour une nomination. Oui, oui. Dave expressed exactly the point that I wanted to raise here. When I introduced myself for the first time, I attended all the meetings of the municipal elected officials, in fact for reasons related to cable. And I saw the instability that reigned. It was really tense about the policies, zoning, permits, and so on. Eu, and the city was not happy. The municipal council, you know, there were conflicts everywhere. Eu, and I decided that I might be able to help. Maybe I could, Eu, do something to improve things. So, I introduced myself and I had the chance, Eu, to beat, Eu, a very good lady who had been there for a very, very long time. Eu. I suggest that at the moment, we do not know particularly of instability. E, we all agree on the data centers. E. And E, what is the other subject? E, E. But it may be largely because the elected councils have done their job well. Do you have a problem with the fact that the municipal assembly makes the final decision if we submit it to the municipal assembly for a decision? I really don't think you should do it. For the same reason as ten years ago, I didn't think you should do it. They didn't listen to me at the time. Do you have any? No? Go ahead, please.

First of all, thank you for your feedback. It is very useful for decision-making. Eux, encore une fois, je tiens à souligner que même les personnes de la communauté qui ont proposé cela ne cherchent pas à évincer qui que ce soit. Je pense. Je pense. Eux, les points concernant. Eux, les rancœurs politiques sont importants à prendre en compte. On aimerait penser que l'autorité de nomination cherche toujours le candidat le plus qualifié. Mais il ne s'agit pas seulement de rancœurs politiques, il peut parfois s'agir d'amitié politique. You know, people are leaving, so we want to make sure that there is a standard method at all times, and that could be an elected one. And I hope that at least, if we decide not to present it, or if we decide to present it despite everything and that the whole council wants the whole city to vote on it, at least it may have drawn more attention to the planning committee. And maybe the problem has been that your meetings are simply not fun enough. You just need more people who want to get involved and join the planning committee.

Vous et moi allons devoir assister à plus de réunions alors, aussi.

Eh bien, nous pourrions peut-être avoir les mêmes problèmes dans ce cas. Hum, mais oui. Merci beaucoup à vous tous pour vos retours.

J'apprécie. C'est bien. C'est très utile pour nous aider à faire une recommandation finale à l'ensemble du comité. Oui, merci. Ça semble bien. Je tiens à vous remercier beaucoup pour ce que vous faites ici de cette manière. La dernière fois. Merci. Venez. Nous avons dû aller nous asseoir au fond de la salle pendant que le comité était ici, eux, et, eux, ne voulant pas nous écouter, eux, et ne recevant pas une audience amicale. Oui. Là où mon comité de charte était juste un instant. Vous savez, ils ont. C'est une chose que nous avons décidé de faire avec ce cycle de révision de la charte. Nous avons, vous savez, en gros confié tout le travail à des sous-comités pour, vous savez, différentes parties de la charte. But, you know, I think we have highlighted that we want to discuss potential changes in the Charter with the councils, committees and departments concerned. MHM. Yes, and to bounce back on your point, this is part of it.

To bounce back on your point, Mr. Hanegg, the subcommittee of Article 3 has undertaken to meet each council relevant to our competence, even those for which we had no suggestion. So, I have already met the administrators of the library, and we will meet the school committee even though we have no suggestion of change. We just want it to be a totally bi-directional conversation because it was not the case the last time.

Did someone suggest? Did someone think of the administrators of the library? I thought I heard him say that he had to be elected. There is, there is something strange with the administrators of the library.

Yes, I think that was partly the reason why we just skipped that one. We said, we have no suggestions for the moment and we only had suggestions from the community for this council, change the men. So, if there is nothing else.

Merci beaucoup pour votre temps. Merci. Une, une rapide. Vous savez, vous avez entendu le conseil de planification exprimer notre point de vue à ce sujet. Nous n'interférerons pas avec ce que vous et votre comité de révision de la charte décider. Je voudrais simplement rappeler aux résidents que s'ils y tiennent vraiment, ils peuvent lancer une pétition citoyenne, recueillir les signatures et forcer l'Assemblée municipale à voter.

or you can consult the section of the charter revision committee on the site of the city to suggest again to continue in this way if you are passionate about it, because everyone can submit suggestions on this site.

And we will let you know what will be our final recommendation. Je pourrais peut-être en entendre parler lors d'une prochaine réunion. Merci beaucoup pour votre temps. Merci, messieurs. Merci d'être venus. Oui, monsieur. C'est fait. Très bien. Il nous reste quelques minutes. Peut-être pouvons-nous traiter quelques affaires générales. Eux, les factures? Je ne crois pas que nous en ayons. Il semble que nous n'ayons aucune facture cette semaine. Je crois que nous avions deux procès-verbaux de réunion précédente. I propose that the Council approve the verbal proceedings of January 13, 2025 and August 10, 2026 as written, with the possible modifications noted during the discussion of the motion. Seconded. Seconded. Proposed motion is seconded. A discussion? Yes, go ahead. One thing I noticed is that during our last meeting, August 10, I officially voted no to the update, but it is indicated that we voted unanimously. I was happy, the real intention is there, but the registered official vote must reflect this. No. I would blame the secretary for his bad interpretation. Very well.

It will be corrected.

Very well. So, if it is corrected, other discussions? Very well. In the absence of other comments, who is for? For. Who is against? Very well. Adopted unanimously. Eu Natalia, you want to make a three-minute team report?

e Very quickly. The public audience for the regulatory amendment project on data centers is scheduled for September 14 at 7.30 pm. e The contract for the green space and leisure plan is in progress, so the project should start at the beginning of next month. And finally, the final version of the authorization guide is in the process of revision and should be able to be presented to the planning council at a meeting next month.

L'audience. L'audience a été publié. N'est-ce pas ? D'accord. Cela marque la limite pour le dépôt des dossiers de candidature. Eux-ils. S'il arrive avant que ce soit annoncé, eux, pas que quelqu'un va le faire, mais eux, et, parfois on ne sait jamais. C'est bien, c'est bien de clarifier cela. And to tell you, I saw the 1727 Upton, they had teams on site last week who were doing work and digging. Do you know in what state is it, is it digging to remove elements potentially buried, or do they add, like, do they?

Je n'en suis pas certain, mais je peux vous dire.

D'accord, c'est juste par curiosité. Pas, pas un, ce n'est pas important si vous. Je l'ai fait. Mon observation est qu'ils font les travaux de site en préparation de la construction. Oui, ils, ils. On aurait dit. Je les ai vu déterrer des choses il y a quelques temps, mais maintenant ils retirent la terre pour pouvoir mettre du gravier et pour le revêtement. On dirait qu'ils coulaient du béton, probablement pour le drainage. Je vois des... On aurait dit des choses liées à l'eau. Il y a des structures de drainage posées au sol en attente d'être installées. D'accord, donc, oui, ils semblent travailler de manière assez régulière. On peut l'entendre.

Donc, ils ont bien eu une réunion de préconstruction avec les différents services et, eux, oui, nous avons un calendrier de ce qu'ils, vous savez, comme.

Je finis par passer devant plusieurs fois par jour et j'essaie toujours de voir, ils ont assez bien bloqué la clôture, mais eux, on dirait qu'il y a beaucoup de terrassements. Je pensais peut-être qu'ils retiraient des sols, vous savez, les couches supérieures qui ne sont peut-être pas ce dont ils ont besoin. Oui, eux, c'est, c'est, vous croyez, comparable à ce qu'ils font sur Georgia Road de mon côté. Ils retirent les sols organiques et mettent du gravier pour servir de base au bâtiment. Ils enlèvent de grosses souches. I have a photo that I'm thinking of trying to post from a bush that is now on the parking lot. The one, you know, at the level of Hopedale Road. bref très bien et bien il est maintenant 7h30 il est 7h30 donc des des dernières choses sur le rapport du personnel ou c'est à peu près tout ce que nous avons très bien passons donc à cette audience publique pour une demande d'approbation de plan de site 41 plaisante street oui allez-y oui e, conformément aux sections 1.3.3 et 5.13 des règlements de zonage de Grafton, le Conseil d'urbanisme tiendra une audience publique le lundi 24 août 2026, à partir de 19h30, dans la salle de conférence à du Centre municipal commémoratif de Grafton, au 30 Providence Road, To examine a site plan approval request for a protected use accessory housing unit or ADU on a property located at 41 Pleasant Street, as indicated on card 82, section 115 of the Grafton evaluator. The said property is located in the districts of residential zoning with average density or R20 and water supply protection. The name of the asking owner is Nancy Buffon. Une copie des documents de candidature est disponible pour inspection publique au département de l'urbanisme pendant les heures de bureau habituelles et sur le site web de la ville de Grafton à grafton-ma.gov, sur la page web du département de l'urbanisme et des projets de développement. Thank you.

E. Natalia, do you have any comments to make on… E. So, the applicant requests an approval of a site plan for the addition of an accessory housing unit , attached to the main single-family residence at 41 Pleasant Street. The main single-family residence includes 996 square feet on the first floor and 908 square feet on the second floor, for a total of 1,904 square feet of living space. The roof must be built within the existing garage. So, Christian posted a planning note with some of the problems and all his comments, and then the applicant wrote a revised story addressing these problems, which is also published in the list of parts, and submitted a revised plan that shows the ground floor or the right-hand side, which is not included in the property and therefore does not increase the impermeable surface. They, therefore, the planner, they Christian, wanted the applicant to confirm this evening during this meeting that there would be no toxic or dangerous material on the site exceeding normal domestic use. So, you wanted it to be declared and confirmed tonight. And the asker is present.

And you are present.

Hello.

So, maybe you can start by answering this question, then they, share everything you want.

Names and ... Hello, my name is Nancy Buffon, 41 Pleasant Street, Grafton, Mass.

John Moreau, architect, 54 Pleasant Street.

So, names. E. David Henman, Henman Construction, has no project to have, and neither do I, no type of dangerous material on the property at any time.

Understood. Another thing, I mean, on the basis of Christian's note and also of the Council's note indicating that it is a protected NADU.

This has nothing to do with the impermeable surfaces.

Exactly. E. Other questions or comments from the Council at this stage? It's the same word, I was a bit E. J'ai compris que le problème était en quelque sorte pas totalement clair dans la loi, mais nous devons, en fin de compte, dire que c'est acceptable en gros ou oui, ne pas dire que ce n'est pas acceptable. Oui, ce n'est pas vraiment le problème du demandeur, mais le mémo me fait penser que le législateur de l'État a peut-être soit négligé. Ce cas limite soit là intentionnellement omis. Anyway, our legal advisor is quite clear about the fact that this is not a problem and I don't see anything in the plans that worries me anyway.

My question is technically, what is the real definition of protected nadu?

There is a law. The basic principles are that it can do up to 900 square feet or half of the main housing. and respect all the retreats and other requirements of the area.

That's it.

Yes, exactly. Okay. Now, in this case, the DOO is above an existing footprint. Yes, exactly. So, for me, the only thing that would worry me during the plan examination would be parking. If we didn't have an impermeable surface problem, something like that. My problem is that I work in several cities. None of them look like each other. Yes, I understand.

It's frustrating. Some of them allow you to have a basement, you can't have a garage. You know, it's just, it's too much. Before the Urbanism Committee was born. To examine the plan, I had already done three add-ons before. It did not pass in front of the council. Again? This advice? Yes. No. Didn't the urbanism committee vote for it during the autumn municipal assembly to examine the plan?

I was thinking. I read about it on South Street. It didn't happen in front of the urbanism committee. Yes, there was a period when it wasn't clear. If a protected adobe had to be the subject of a mass plan examination, We clarified this. I think we had always assumed that this should be the case. Some additions, for the better, went through because the zoning regulation had not yet been updated. Okay. I mean, a very attentive reading of a clause strangely placed in the zoning regulation would indicate that even this one should have been the subject of a mass plan examination, but that was not the case.

Eh bien, je voulais juste que cela soit consigné car j'ai tout le temps des questions et c'est comme si, eh bien, il faut poser les questions. Il faut poser les questions.

Oui, vous le savez. C'est, en l'état actuel, il s'agit juste d'un examen du plan de site, n'est-ce pas ? Alors, revenons-en à ce soir. Euh, et donc, c'est, vous savez, selon la définition du conseil et des urbanistes, une adou protégée. They therefore, as far as the site plan is concerned, and this can include, you know, the parking test or other. Does anyone else have a problem or a question about this site plan in particular? Yes, me. Je n'ai aucun problème avec. Il y avait certaines choses que le plan révisé a permis de clarifier. Oui, je n'ai, je n'ai aucun problème. Je suis toujours curieux, est-ce destiné à être ? Point peu importe pour mon, vous savez, pour un vote car c'est pratiquement la même chose, mais est-ce destiné au grand public comme location ou d'une manière ou d'une autre est-ce lié à la famille ? D'accord, comme je l'ai dit, ça n'a pas d'importance.

Oui, vous savez, c'est mon fils, mon fils adulte.

Oui. Oui, quand vous dites location, je pensais avoir vu location pour lui.

Dans le... Ça reste familial. Ça reste familial. Non, non, mais je pensais.

Non, je n'ai certainement pas dit location pour lui. Je ne crois pas.

Souvenir d'avoir lu sa mère.

J'ai peut-être dit sa mère.

Mais oui, comme je l'ai dit, ça n'a pas d'importance. Vous pouvez changer d'avis demain et ça ne change toujours rien.

Si vous voulez faire payer un loyer à votre famille, c'est pour... Then I will bill them a rent. Yes, I go first. Unless there is, unless there is a reason, you know, not to approve the site plan, I will receive a motion. I propose that we close the public audience and ask the staff to make a decision. Supposed and supported. Is there a discussion on the motion? N'entendant rien, tous ceux qui sont pour. Pour. Tous ceux qui sont contre. Très bien, adopté à l'unanimité. Merci. Alors Jen, je vais rédiger une décision. Et ensuite, cela nous sera soumis pour approbation, essentiellement, et nous devrons voter sur cette décision une fois qu'elle sera rédigée. Mais cela devrait arriver probablement d'ici la prochaine réunion, correct ? Oui, la prochaine réunion est le 14 septembre.

I would like to inform everyone here about what happened with my request and what I hope to avoid to all demanders, all citizens of Grafton who are trying to obtain construction documents. E. I have the Grafton Police Service. E. I had to report a fraud by bank account that has recovered all my information from the Urbanism Committee. They sent me an invoice with the city's emblem. I lost almost $ 5,000. Uh, yes. And it's not recoverable. And like, when, when, where? And it comes from, and it's written that it comes from Christian, and that in order for it to be examined before the audience, you have to pay the invoice and withdraw the funds. Uh, so that, it will not help me. Uh, I will never see this amount again. Uh, never again. Uh, and what I want to do, is that if someone asks for documents, because I was told, oh yes, we are aware of this. By whom? By the city. It was, I was on the phone with my builder who told me, Nancy, you have been scammed. I am at the urbanism committee and they say that it is a common practice. And I said, well, we have to inform people about it because... That should be the first thing. The first thing to say, we will never demand bank transfers. Here is the structure of the fees. My goal is to avoid it, like $ 5,000, it's a huge sum for me. Yes.

Well Nancy, you were in the main and you were dealing with Christian on the phone.

And by e-mail.

and help her follow her request, what to get on the site plan, all this work, and then she receives this opinion.

On her part, saying that my, my file seemed perfect, the only thing I had to do, and it's very, uh, I met the police. They said they weren't aware. Uh, and I say to myself, well, the urbanism service of the city is aware. Uh, and I think that each citizen should be informed of it. They, and they sign in the name of Christian and it happens with, like, some changes in the email address and that kind of thing. My, my goal is to prevent anyone else from getting caught.

According to what I understood when talking to the city administrator, it is a scam that was going on especially a few months ago, but which had stopped, there was a major interruption. But she took over and it affects the whole Commonwealth, not only Grafton.

Oh, I know, because they sent me, they, there was an audience in Lunenburg.

Yes.

I spent three hours calling Lunenburg because the scammers sent me information about someone there who is building a high school. That I received today. So I...

So yes, thank you for sharing that. It's painful. And it's painful.

It's embarrassing, as if I was doing it myself. I'm trying to manage that. Sensitization is really necessary for everyone. Because even the policeman said, oh my God, it's the logo, that's it. It looks totally authentic.

Yes, it becomes dangerously credible in the way.

Well, you share public information about people and I understand that they must be protected.

Yes. So maybe what we can do, Natalia, and when Christian will be back, is to think about adding an element to our process to clearly warn people of this kind of thing from the start, right? From the start, if you don't know, call or come see us. It could be as simple as modifying the signature with an attention to scams.

Or a candidacy file that says

Ce que j'ai recommandé à l'administrateur de la ville il y a une ou deux semaines, quand je l'ai vu, c'est que si nous préparons des documents pour les mettre en ligne, on pourrait expurger l'adresse, le numéro de téléphone, ou les deux.

L'email. Expurger l'email, c'est comme ça qu'ils m'ont eu. Tout s'est fait par email, ce que je faisais comme.

Et comme ce sont des informations publiques, quelqu'un pourrait toujours venir en faire la demande ou déposer une demande d'accès aux documents publics.

C'est vrai, mais il faut leur rendre la tâche plus difficile.

Oui, c'est ça mon point de vue. C'était mon argument.

Faites-les travailler pour les obtenir.

Il m'a dit qu'il allait se pencher sur la question, mais il ne pouvait rien promettre.

Oui, non, je vous remercie du temps accordé.

Absolument, et nous devrions examiner la question. A moins que ce ne soit légalement obligatoire, je ne vois pas pourquoi l'email de quelqu'un devrait figurer là. Je veux dire, le nom et l'adresse, je ne vois pas comment faire autrement à cause du voisinage.

That's right. With this email, they then include all the text of the request, of the plan, everything.

That's right. Is there a way to set up a secure portal for this? Your email is on it. That way, they don't have to not share.

Oh no, that's right. So, on the request, they should hide.

Find out if our software does. Maybe, but I don't know. I wonder if they could connect each time so that all communications go through a secure portal.

Most of the information is public, life already contains a large part of it. I would say that masking the email is a good idea. The other thing is that the fee balance is displayed and these are the only fees we have. So people should be aware, but we also have. They are displayed. On the website. On the website.

They.

They with the forms and everything else. They, we published opinions. They, a while ago. They, on the flash info or whatever, and on Facebook, etc. And that calmed down a bit, I guess, but it's I guess it's.

Yeah, did it win? Does it happen to others than the Urbanism Commission?

This has been happening for a while. The police were aware and we are transmitting everything to them.

We have a committee that deals with computer issues that may want to think about it during our next order of the day.

Okay. Okay. Now, thank you. I just don't want anyone to feel how I feel right now.

Thank you for sharing it. Thank you. Then, it won't give you your $5,000, but municipalities across the country, local governments, have been robbed of several million dollars with similar targets. So...

Yes, it's awful.

It's real. Yeah.

Yeah. No, thank you for your time. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. Good luck.

Thank you.

Yes. Oh. Merci pour votre temps. Tout cela est bon. Là-dedans pour vous. Merci beaucoup. Si vous pouviez, s'il vous plaît signez-le. Oui, absolument. Merci.

Merci d'être venu. Bien. Have we finished all of them? Let's go back to the general affairs. You have not treated the correspondence, although there is none. I have not seen anything. I have not seen any correspondence of citizens or residents. These are essentially all opinions of Worcester. Yes, I have not seen anything in the correspondence that attracted my attention. Understood. Other points that can be legally addressed, The only thing I would mention is that the CPC has a meeting this Thursday where we must vote on the presentation of the funding requests to the municipal assembly, so the CPC will make its vote Thursday for the points of the municipal assembly. Understood. Other points, I had it, genre, I lost it. Eh bien, je ne pense pas que nous ayons besoin de voter pour prolonger. Motion pour lever la séance. Motion pour lever la séance. Appuyer. Appuyer. Très bien. Non sujet à débat. Tous en faveur ? Oui. Contre ? La séance est levée. Ici.