Master Plan Working Group - Regular Meeting

let's call this meeting of the master plan working group to order it is February 3rd 2025 we'll begin with a roll call Bob Carroll yeah Bob's here Victoria Duckworth here Lindsay Fox here I will knowing that anarie is I won't call I won't count her as present just yet uh Deborah George Brian H here Brian is here and I will Circle back to Deborah George in a moment she seems to be signing in Shantel Kimble don't see her I Petri here David Robbins is here Sue Robbins here Colleen Roy so go back to Colleen in a moment ran nangi all right Deborah George here and Colleen Roy I see Colleen I didn't hear her yeah that took a second to connect I'm in now though oh excellent oh outstanding we have nine out of 12 members currently attending the meeting and one more and Marie will be joining us when she can break away from her other meeting so let me see we have an agenda action items approved meeting minutes we have I just looked on the website we looks like we have two meeting minutes available November 6th

and December 2nd um to review and approve uh just as a reminder November 6th we didn't have a quorum so the meeting minutes reflect an informational discussion and no uh no actions were taken at that meeting so if anybody's had a chance to review either of these minutes and would care to make a motion regarding approving them I move that we approve the minutes from November 6 and December 2nd is presented second moved and seconded any discussion any additions or Corrections if not we'll take a vote by roll call Bob Carroll Bob Carrol's ey Victoria Duckworth hi Lindsay Fox hi Deborah George I'll abstain just because I was at neither of those meetings okay Brian H hi essic patri hi David Robbins votes I sue Robbins hi alen Roy colen you didn't hear that this is gonna be fun a moment for your sound to turn on okay all right so declare the motion carried by a vote of fa eight in favor none against and one abstention and takes care of our action i' have been agenda I you am I correct that we don't yet have meeting minutes for January 6th yes that's correct I I tried failed I'll have next time okay well then we can uh move on to

our into our discussion items this is a note from the uh cmrpc staff perspective Elena has moved on I gather she's I remember it correctly she took a took a job elsewhere and so now from cmrpc we have Sarah and Dominique U you heading up heading up the the project and it's not the first time I've been in in a project where cmrpc staff changes have taken place but uh I think we I think we we have every reason to expect good continuity here uh so we have on the agenda discussion items of two draft chapter reviews open space and Recreation and natural and cultural resources so Sarah you want to uh kick this off I don't know which one you want to uh go over first but that's up to you sure thank you Mr chair uh yeah I'll introduce SL reintroduce for some of you uh Dominique who will be helping us over the finish line here thanks so much Sarah um thanks Dave I just wanted to say hello um I'm Dominique D Trumble I'm the director of community planning it's nice to see you all again thanks for bearing with us um as Elena has moved on to new pastures um in Boston but you know them I know you've done tremendous work so far and it continues to be in great hands with Sarah I will be stepping back into the master plan to make sure that we have the man Manpower and um again continuity but we're you know you're almost there and I'm really excited to be engaged in a greater capacity in this final stage which is you know I think the most exciting part for me so um we're both here for you as well as the entire team and I'm just looking forward to getting back up to speaked thank you thank

you great so this tonight T are is our last two chapters for a second review so Sam is here on behalf of the writers of natural cultural resources and open space and Recreation to go over the changes major changes to the chapter since the last time it was reviewed of course the long list of comments um from all of you and our suggestions or how the comments were integrated is still live on that Matrix um but Sam will be going over some big picture changes to the chapter question for the committee since we are looking to wrap up changes to the chapter from the committee wondering um who if any of you are still looking to comment on any of the chapters of course we'll give you some time to look over the two chapters that were representing tonight but we're looking to move some of the chapters into final design and it's easiest to do it if there's not too many changes of course we'll go through other draft periods but I'm curious if there's any committee members that are still looking to make changes in to what specific chapters anybody just speaking for myself uh having just reviewed the latest drafts other than things like typos and you know very minor issues of terminology details of certain numbers there's you I really at this point I don't know of any substantive comments that I have that I expect to make subject to subject to review of the of the of the final drafts as they come through but at this point what I'm left with when I read these is just noticing little uh little knits here and

there which what there's no reason to discuss those tonight but uh some sort of a final proof reading pass that we'll want to make absolutely know does anybody else have anything an Marie yeah I'm here live first of all and and secondly I'm just wondering where we landed or where um where you folks landed with including uh verbiage relative to the MBTA zoning and if that was that specificity ended up in the document and I apologize if I haven't seen it to review it and I understand that's probably not tonight's but if you're just looking for overall yeah great question uh we did decide to include information that was more long-term plan that was suitable for the scope of the master plan so it has less of those minute details that Gabe presented that was more informational for the committee and more just overview of the direction that the state is going in all right anything else from the committee you know to address Sarah's question basically you're you know you're looking for any indication that any of us have any you know fairly substantive comments that we we still expect to make and hearing none great awesome so we will go right ahead with final design for those chapters that we've already done a second review of we give you a little bit more time with these two chapters tonight I'm looking to kind of close these for this round of reviews on February 18th so that'll be two weeks plus the holiday on Monday and that'll be super helpful to us to get this

wrapped up awesome so I think with that I can turn it over to Sam and he'll walk you through those two chapters okay uh hi everyone um I'm going to share my screen here um okay it actually doesn't look like I'm allowed to share right now um I think I need to be given permission by the host I'll that right now okay okay okay so you guys can just see the natural and cultural resources chapter here you okay um so uh probably the biggest change between the two chapters um was looking at both of them and sort of figuring out like if there's any sort of mismatch or uh ways that they could be better organized um without really getting it rid of any of the information just moving it around so that it flows better um so in our comments Matrix um I don't know if I switch tabs can you guys see the new tab that I'm on yep okay um in the comments Matrix I wrote a bunch of stuff like explained everything that I kind of moved around um between the goals action items and objectives uh the biggest thing was moving the agriculture stuff um into the open space and Recreation chapter um and then moving the stuff from gold two uh in the

open space and Recreation stuff mostly pertaining to water-based Recreation water quality um I just moved the water quality stuff into the natural resources discussion in the the natural resources chapter and I moved the stuff about water-based Recreation into the recreation section of the first goal of the Open Space chapter um and then to to make up for that imbalance because now there would only be one goal in the open space section that's why I moved over the agriculture stuff so those are some of the bigger changes that I made um just to make sure that um everything kind of flows well and that there's not a lot of like repeating information or information that seems out of place um uh this second thing that we changed um or the second major change um was mentioning the that the connection between um Municipal Building Maintenance and natural resources um well it was mentioned that the connection there was unclear uh so we just clarified that it's just saying that the um time and resources for open space and natural resource management is just competing with other Municipal priorities uh so we just kind of changed the wording of that um another one um on row nine of the comments um we were asked to incorporate hmp findings uh Hazard mitigation plan findings um into the NCR chapter so we made that a new objective um haard I think if I just type password areas I could find um yeah so we just just had a new made a new objective to secure funding to protect historic resources from um vulnerabilities related to natural natural hazards um and then another big change for this one was that we were

asked um to check with the DPW on Regional approaches to ms4 compliance um so we reached out to them and we found that Regional uh regionalism um with regards to ms4 isn't really viable since each town has its own unique requirements um so we just included details about that and um some other options under action item 1.1.2 um we were also asked uh to explain more about like right to farm at least I mean not this doesn't necessarily have to be in the plan but just um someone asked for more information on that and why it's being suggested um and so I guess I can just explain it here um as far as I know right to farm can be pretty flexible and how it's imple mented to match the growth pattern of a community um and like I think the problem is that it's recognized um as a concern in our region that um Farms are being driven out and nuisance complaints arising as subdivisions are being built uh near historically agricultural areas are um exacerbating the issue um and so even though Grafton is like pretty suburbanized the community does still highly value the Farms that remain um um and so this would just add another layer of protection um so we can discuss that after this we go over this chapter I guess if you still are having second thoughts about including that one um in row 32 of the comments Matrix it was mentioned that there was um there wasn't anything about Nelson Park included so I just added a blur of that under the historical Assets in inventory under gold 2 um and then another big thing I did with this chapter um was where is it here um I had that

whole discussion with the Hassan amisco band um and uh I sort of went over like the things that I added to the chapter with them and they sort of came back to me and we had a sort of back and forth about different things that could be added to improve the discussion and um we came out with like instead of just having an action item pertaining to them turning it into a whole objective with corresponding action items um so these are the action items here um and that's it for like the major changes for the NCR chapter so I guess we can do like a comment SE uh period now for this chapter and then go into open space yep any uh any comments and questions about this from anybody quick question I've never heard it referred to as a Hassam misc band is that is that what they were um they are I mean they they were made as state recognized tribe um but technically they're not a tribe um aside from that designation um but it's still fine to call them a tribe they they they they still go by that terminology from time to time I'm fine with with whatever is appropriate I just had never heard that terminology before so um that was all deorah I just wondered if you could expand on um making sure that people are not prosecuted for the hunting could you just expand on that um yeah so in the I mean it's kind of a recurring problem that um the uh different members of different tribal communities in Massachusetts um

will they technically were granted access to um hunt like for example out of season or on like uh public properties where it like they technically I mean other people would not be permitted to like fish for example um so they were granted protection to do this back in like I think it was like the 1970s um by uh like a resolution to an executive order that I have like uh I have a copy of it that I can send you guys um but we're including it in the appendix um and so they they just try to get the word out about like the fact that they they have like different protections granted to them than are afforded like other people um to have more access to lands um and so this action item just sort of expands upon that a bit um and talks about how um police in the community should be made more aware of that um and like what like the protocol is for dealing with potential complaints um I I guess my main thing would be if there're still if they still need to adhere to um hunting rules where you can't hunt on Trails uh is it Sundays around in this area just things like that is it what I'm just curious if they would still have to adhere to things like no no hunting on Sundays un oh I I think yeah I think they are like technically like granted full protection to not have specific off days where they can't hunt or um they have access to significantly more land to hunt um I think like they're like technically like it's just like they

have to use their own discretion to not even Hunter fish on private lands um because the the actual verbiage of that resolution was very broad sweeping so um it's really just like up to the discretion of the tribe to um be responsible about the freedoms that they're granted um and then if they are ever like um detained or anything or ticketed by police they have like their own process for getting that ticket resolved um it's it's pretty interesting like they they actually have they a lot of access to land that other people are not afforded it just seems like I was just going to finish with it just seems like a potential conflict if you will with all the other people we've identified who want to use public LS within the town of Grafton yeah anything else deor F no thanks Sam for bringing that um to our attention I I was unaware I think this is just more of a a comment about maybe just like an inext citation or like a footnote yeah let's go that here just so it's just so we can you know the reader can see that that reference right away yeah we're going to have it as an appendix thing so I just have c appendex x here okay perfect anything else F uh not at the moment actually this um this isn't pertaining uh to that piece of legislation specifically but is there references in this and I'm sorry because I didn't get to look at it right before

the meeting but to like all trails and those types of um public platform Sam references to all Trails um yeah or like some like something like that like a public um map uh trails app rather um one thing that sorry go ahead I was just gonna say um on the back end maybe before you finalize this just if there is references to those um things if we could just redact it and and just reference uh you know direct people to either the conservation commission's website or The graft and Land Trust website regarding Trails because uh I'm learning that all trails and such are not always updated with some of the um private property limitations and I think we just want to be cognizant of making sure people don't wander um onto somebody's you know private property and then might have a run into a safety issue or something so that's that was more General um but something that I wanted to to bring up because I caught it the other day so thank you pretty sure we don't reference all Trails but um that would I don't think so but yeah okay that's all I got thanks yeah I've heard that problem in the past like in some towns they have like trails that they don't really want people using at all because it's like in very ecologically sensitive areas and um it it doesn't really discriminate at all in terms of because they like they don't really do any Outreach to communities about like what they actually want shown on that app so right right they never double check and then people are like oh I can go here the apps as I can it's like no don't go there so thank you okay soe I just wanted to um just repeat what Don Fiona said that

I think this should be referenced and I wanted to ask Sam if this is considered um in the resolution or whatever it's called are they considered Sovereign um I think technically not but I wouldn't tell them that because it's like kind of a touchy subject because it signs kind of like it is a little bit sovereignty um the way you described it anyway I'd have to read it over but um yeah but I think it should be referenced because people are going to have a lot of questions I think Bob yeah I was kind of G to jump on this thread a little bit for 2.3.4 um the language in there that stuck out to me um for the purpose of sustenance of their families yeah which what you know is kind of the the thread here and I could just this whole thing being Hanah worms because now you're going to have potentially conflicts and opening this up where I don't know if this belongs in a master plan right what we want here they have like I think there's been a lot of litigation over the years to like sort of clarify what this means um I didn't get too far into like the actual Court proceedings but it seems like this is also like as long as they can I think it's pretty the scope of what like this entails like I think it's literally just as long as you know they say well I'm doing this for the sustenance of my families uh that they have access to the

land like they don't actually have to really back this up by anything so um yeah right and I wasn't looking to litigate this here and now but I again my opinion would be that um I think we want to tread lightly on this and again I don't know if this belongs in a master plan right you know that's I don't know what that leads to our vision um this just seems that it's potentially contentious and you know would stir up a lot of uh other you know issues that may detract from the the main purpose of this which is you know the vision right where we want to go I don't know feel again I'm not looking to litigate or or um you know um have a dog in the hunt or have an opinion one side or the other just that I I I don't think necessarily belongs in here I don't know what other people think yeah I guess I'm confused as to why why we wouldn't include it I mean it's a bit it's the is that the like the um the the sentence there the say sustance of their families I mean is that is that the problem like the language I mean I think this is the language in the resolution too but yeah right that's what I thought um yeah I guess I'm not I'm not I I get Bob's Point kind of but I also don't think we should remove it I mean we definitely want to make sure that they have

access where they need to be um yeah I don't know I think um I think we should keep it it just almost feels a little bit outside of the purview of a master plan though if this is something that has state or federal legislation that's handled in much higher documentation than within the town master plan but yeah I mean if maybe it's a rewarding to um situation where we just talk about you know strengthening our Partnerships and and locally um you know assisting um I'm not going to be able to come up with the words on the spot but um yeah I don't know I I would I the ham Masco band have kind of voice that they want to be involved in this process and I and I've had conversations with Sam and I don't know I just feel like reacting it could could could also be a problem I think it might just be maybe rewarding it is federal but yeah there's a lot I mean Grafton is is unique and that we have we you know we we share the town with with with them and they should be part of the process yeah I think there's it's it's probably this particular point is probably something that very few people are aware of so you know in in the sense of you know sort of you know respecting the hen misco of the the the Heritage there and the relationship they've had with the town um at least conceptually it's part of the master plan it's this this whole section is sort of you oriented around

increasing awareness and uh increasing our ability to uh to integrate Grafton with the with the the triber band here anyway I don't want to U let me go the next hand up is Lindsay yeah thank you Sam this is a very interesting topic um I is this so I guess um I agree that this should stay in especially this is like a is this an ongoing issue or is like the most common complaint yeah I mean it is like for the this is a topic that's come up in almost like every conversation that I've had with um the indigenous Community um that like this is uh this is something that like they deeply care about um protecting their ability to have access to these lens um and I think it would be a pretty prickly subject I mean it would be pretty uh risky thing to take out at this point in time um because they're very vocal about wanting this to be made clear to people um so great I definitely think you know then yeah it should certainly stay stay in here for sure and I also wanted to say that I think it's a great idea to like you know uh discuss the right to farm and supporting agriculture in the town I think um that that should also stay Thank you and Marie yeah for me this is just kind of another level of specificity that I've kind of um brought up in in other chapters that I don't think um aligns with coming up with just a a broader overall Vision as opposed to just this level specificity and I think to Fiona's Point um perhaps just a rewording of this

might be in order um again for me it's just more the the level of specificity that we will be looking at you know going forward thanks any other comments or questions about this anything else on the natural and cultural resources chapter here well Dave I think we might need to decide I don't know if we need to put you know the if the working group wants to take a vote on on how to proceed if they want to do a rewarding or not um I think I just want to try and give Sam some Direction so he knows what he's what he's needs to do Sue um I think this should all stay in I understand understand your remark um an Marie about specificity but I this is our cultureal this is a big cultural part of Grafton and if this is something they want the Grafton residents and people in town know more about them I think this is a great way to do it and I just think it should stay in it's a big part of our historical and cultural aspects of our town and Marie let me just unmute I'm just looking at was this is this based on I know you reached out to the group which is fabulous but is there anything in the previous master plan plan relative to this I don't see it under resources I'm just trying to find if there's just a um you know kind of a place to start or a precedent that was set or is this just kind of you know a new direction that we're looking at which is fine I'm just curious now to the best of my

recollection the previous master plan now some 25 years old you paid little if any attention to the indigenous people of Grafton which is a problem which is the problem yeah so I guess I'll take that as a no no yeah would so Colleen I'm in agreement that it should be uh kept the same that the whole action item is to ensure native people are not to be persecuted and it goes into you know some minor uh example so I can make a motion if if we want to take a vote for Fiona I I move that we keep the language as is second all right moved in second and discussion Bob yeah I I just didn't want my remarks mischaracterized I'm I'm for having this in here but I think I'm more aligned with um amarie that I don't want I would suggest it be less prescriptive and you know we're supportive and we do want to ensure um the native peoples are not prosecuted but um if we get into you know some of the um appendices if if and when they get added and the claims um that seems like a slippery slope to me and um you you know I want I i' forgotten who brought up the point earlier but um make sure people understand what they're what we're saying here was essentially um Native people they if I'm if I'm reading it I'm not I'm not a lawyer but um at a high level they can pretty much hunt and fish on any of these lands um anytime they want to in season out of

season Sundays right um you know essentially with Firearms so um want to make sure people understand that anything else Bob essic yeah sorry I was kind of going in the same direction it's a little confusing to me as exactly as far as what what this is saying that the way it's written here is um the lands and as far as witch lands and and maybe again similarly maybe I'm just not reading it correctly but it says access to all lands in the Commonwealth to hunt and fish for the sustance of the families to me that reads as um it that goes across private public state federal any property whatsoever is that correct um to my knowledge I mean to to basically what I've been looking at yeah it is it is surprising I mean it is it sounds absurd but that is what I have read so we should just be sure of that language because that to me touches off a very potentially um Hot Topic if we're saying that they're they're capable to to hunt on private lands that aren't theirs and we're not sure of it we should just make sure that we're very very clear as far what we're saying okay so if I if I get in touch with the like with the state level Agency on Indian Affairs um and I um come to like and they confirm that this is the case um is it still a touchy subject that we don't want to include or should I uh you just go ahead with it at that point well it sounds like that's what we're that's what the vote is is um going for right now so that's a great

question Sam I just okay I just think a lot of people will be surprised in to to come across I personally was um and again I don't have an issue with it what not but I did not realize that was the case um and I'm guessing a lot of other people might not as well okay so we should just be prepared to respond to those comments okay uh Lindsay yeah so I feel like you know if if this is the case I think everyone should be aware of it um either either way um I think that you know I think it's reasonable to just kind of go in look at the the wording to you know maybe re reword it a little bit um but um but yeah I I think um you know maybe for the the the specificity maybe that can go in more appendix items or something like that um but yeah I mean I think it's I don't know it's very it's it it it warrants you know certainly looking into a little bit more but you know I think it belongs if that's really you know the case everyone should know be aware at least thank you Colleen yeah uh Lindsay just took the words out of my mouth I think that the fact that so many people on this call were unaware of this um and not to say that I I knew either before I read this it it's important for the vision of Grafton going forward to to ensure that everybody is is aware of this I think it's it's important to keep it in and you know I don't mind double-checking it but again the language is not offensive at all to me and and we're this isn't a policy we're not we are not instituting anything we're just making sure people are aware exactly okay I just David okay I just wanted to remark that as as far as I know as long as I've lived in Grafton this has never been abused I don't think anybody has ever

complained about somebody hunting on their private property at any time of the year not that I'm aware of I've never heard anybody complaining about it in this town so I don't think it's being abused at all right because I think like it is it is I I think the reason it hasn't gotten to a point where they they felt like a significant and I mean I'm going to contact the State about this at this point to just to clarify since it's been such a Hot Topic here but um it's just not really ever gotten to that point where it's it's become um less of a like where it's become more Concrete in law just because they they're they've been good about using discretion like they they they understand that if they go onto private property that there's a risk that they're just going to get shot um and it's like that it it's just because it's so dangerous to do that they just tend to avoid even running into that conflict or just more um like it's it because the the the private property owner is not going to be like oh well they're a Native American and so I understand that they are uh free to do this it's like that would be that's how I doubt very much if that would be the reaction but can I just suggest then since he has to uh check with the state to clarify all this can we just hold off the vote until the next meeting so we get better clarification on this um I want to keep the cultural historical part part of this in but if that's one sentence is bothering everybody then we can just change it but I I would like to see if we could hold off the vote if anyone's willing to do that this is ESS that makes sense to me as well I think uh making the the vote

when we have all the information makes a lot more sense yeah Brian yeah I in terms of of what everyone's talked about I I I agree with uh with Sue um you know if we're getting into the weeds here you know the idea of having it in an appendix not taking it up but just having it in an appendix would seem to me would make more sense than to incorporate it into the the actual verbage here that's all okay anything else Brian Bob I'm um I'm agreement with Sue to hold the vote off I guess again not to get too hung up on this but if I read the last sentence right um we're saying we're we're to notify the Grafton police as to the rights of these people I don't know if this Committee in their charge should be notifying Grafton police when we really don't understand you know the law here right that was intended more as like an to like reach out to them about it make sure that like it's it's like see where they're at with it see if they've like um in in terms of like their own training if they have had to deal with a case like this before um I think it wasn't really intended as like we're going to because of our limited knowledge go ahead and tell you that you have to abide by this rule it was more of like an encouragement to do their own investigation to it um but again I can I'll uh I'll I'll come back to you with more information from this state on this yeah I think to to me the the the gist

of this whole action item is the idea of making the citizens of Grafton aware of this right that the indigenous people have and there's a there's you know you could you can drill you drill down on that then you know being aware of it has you know means a number of different things to different people means that you know the people who might be involved in in fiing complaints about it need to be aware I mean but rather than you know going back a little bit to an Marie's concern about specificity I think it's it's certainly not overly specific to say that here's something that the indigenous that's important to the IND IND ious people that most of us weren't aware of and and should be U how detailed we get in the master plan beyond that what what actions what specific possible actions need to be taken in response to the idea of awareness is something that uh there there's a little bit of uncertainty as we've discussed and so if everybody's kind of comfortable with the topic REM remaining here awareness of this particular uh indigenous right the details of exactly how we word it in the master plan are at least somewhat subject to getting more information that we don't currently have Bob your hand is still up yeah I'll support that David I just the last three or four sentences to me seem very prescriptive and you know we have comments about lack of specific training for officers I don't know if do we know that that they've not had training they've this has been a thing that they've discussed about other towns is that the the localle we don't know in

Grafton if this is the case right yeah that's what I'm saying like here if not if they are not already aware of this like I mean there's prescriptive claims here because these are action items and they're all prescriptive but um I think like the the point of this is really just to say like if these if this is the case that this is a I mean accurate that they do have access to these lands and if it's the case that they're telling the truth about the fact that they've been persecuted for um despite being granted access to these lands then the the solution to that problem is then to inform police officers that they do have access to these lands and not have them persecuted for it that's why it's in here like that is the only prescriptive claim that you can really get out of this these like thisinformation so that's why I have it there but yeah I guess I'll just leave this we'll see what everyone comes back with next time and maybe have a okay so I just want to say that I I would like to keep this in I don't want it be put it in appendix because that's really dismissing an important group of people in our town by just set setting them aside and say well we noticed you but I I think this is important to keep it in here and if you want to change one or two sentence then do that but putting in in an appendix I think is really dismissing a big part of our culture in Grafton totally agrees too yeah any other we do have a motion on the floor any other discussion I mean I I kind of get the sense that the that the consensus we're reaching here is you we we want to acknowledge this in some way when to kind of keep it in here but the details of just how we write this we want to uh we want

to get more information and circle back on that is that if that's where we're at do we need to do we need to actually vote on the motion I'll withdraw my second if colen draw I'll withdraw my motion it was it was to help give us Direction I think I think we Sam you have Direction now correct y y yep I I think we've I think we probably beat this to death for tonight but yeah I think Sam you have a pretty good sense of uh where we're going with this yeah and I the thing is I I tried to reach out to the specific uh state agency on the Indian Affairs in the past and they actually did not get back to me so there is the risk of that happening again um where I try to reach out to them for more information and they just don't contact me back and if that's the case I guess I mean we can get rid of the action item if that is if it's a concern well I think that we could probably go down a different additional Avenues than just that because I I agree it's important but we should just make sure that we're 100% confident with what we include that's all I mean if if we in contact with with the the tribe members maybe they would be able to provide us with some contact information that might help as well sure okay again I think it's it's important to keep the point here that is the awareness of a concern that the indigenous people have an issue that has they may NE they may may never have encountered a problem with this here in Grafton but it is something that you know the the indigenous folks have have encountered from time to time across the Commonwealth and so for for Grafton to be aware of that as part of you know our our emphasis

here in this section is is to uh uh be cognizant of our indigenous you know the IND indigenous inhabitants of Grafton and their history and their their needs to be a part of the community colen yeah and I I I like leaving in that the Grafton police should be made aware and and in all likelihood they are aware and and hopefully they remain aware but like so many of us tonight were unaware so I think keeping something in here for people to oh my gosh did you know that um I think that's it's hugely important yeah I think I think that's the point of this paragraph is for the community as a whole to be aware of this particular point so have we beat up Sam enough okay I will I will um add this one thing um because when I was looking into this I did find this um webinar from their website that actually was um like the the executive director on the um uh I forget what it's called the the Indian Affairs agency the commission on Indian Affairs the executive director of the commission on Indian Affairs um had this webinar where he was sort of going over these topics and the only reason I'm not saying it as like it's like a definitive source is just because like the actual contents of the webinar were kind of all over the place um but like what I did get out of it was like what I have included here um along with um the appendix item like I think there's enough information from that webinar that maybe we could come to the conclusion after other people look at it

um that like it's it's definitive enough that this is okay to include um but yeah I'm just going to share that in the is there a is there a chat function in this Zoom it's a Q&A um okay it doesn't look like an I can add to that but I can I can send you guys the link to the webinar afterwards he went over this topic but it it was kind of hard to it's it's hard uh just like the the way that they worded things in the webinar was a little vague so um that's kind of why this ended up being so vague as well so um yeah um but yeah I'll try to get in touch with them and get more like concrete answers about it all right so let's move on from this topic I gather that pretty much we're expecting to uh Circle back on this one paragraph at our next meeting so the next thing that we are covering is the open space and Recreation chapter um one of the big points from this one was um that um let's see here um there was uh the topic of the Pepperoni Express location and the swamp behind it as an ecotourism location um I sort of went back and edited that um to be just an action item about adding more amenities along wer Street in general um because it was cited through other like survey results that there was a lack of Green Space um and that it had like sort of a Gasoline Alley feel Al along Wester Street um that maybe could

be remedied with like maybe new green infrastructure or like a community garden um somewhere along there to sort of you know give it more of a natury feel um where what what am I typing in here um wer street so that's right here um another big one was the discussion of uh the Whitney Park project um I just added a bit about um finishing implementing the uh uh items from the I think it was a past assessment completed by cmrpc yeah um just like Whitney Park uh redesign uh improvements um and then another big one was the um where is it um so there was a there was a point about having uh potentially too many recommendations about plans in here um I think part that was because there was a discussion of the different Capital Improvement plans and like program uh uh Pro programmatic plans for the next few years for the um Recreation Department um but those were already completed this year um so I just made it more clear that those were already like done and that the recommendation was just to like they're each like a page long um so there was just recommendations about um keeping those updated as time goes on um Fiona you had your hand up yeah Sam sorry not to um I just wanted to backtrack to the um Worcester Street Corridor for a second there oh sorry yeah

so what so the I I I would be um I would just Express concern well okay how about I wonder if this might make more sense to incorporate in the zoning um uh like requirements for like green Greening in open space because that that is a you know it's kind of a key commercial Corridor in town and we do want to um we obviously want to make it look beautiful but I'm also want to make sure that we are um you know Pro you know assisting businesses as well I think we can achieve both I just yeah yeah I think my yeah my concern was maybe like re realistic Greening elements along there so that um it it works like as you know a small business wants to come in and they they might be spending you know thousands upon thousands of dollars on a specific type of like Arbor V like let's let's not like overdo it I guess in a way because we already have limited commercial space in town but it's just food for thought for the working group um that was just the first um thing that came to my mind maybe just a little bit more requ requirements on folks on private land owners but still allow them to kind of I I don't know if I would necessarily um be in favor of you know changing like the designation per se because as I mentioned we you know commercial areas is limited in town so just something to think about I was in do you mean changing the designation like changing the zoning itself yeah I think there was at one point it was mentioned there was like a comment received like ch turn U and I could be getting it wrong so I'm sorry if I Mard but like changing it to more like a nature kind of um preserving

kind of like feel like maybe having it like like that some areas revert back to the kind of natural like swampy Green Space that it was before um I guess I would just be a little bit concerned because you know it is we have limited commercial area so I think what if we if there is buildable portions of those lots we want to see you know business there um but we also want to see businesses contribute to the beauty beautification of crafted in that Corridor so just kind of something to to think about okay um I see other hands raised so the action item is introduce open space um and amenities along Worcester Street Worcester Street does have open space um amenities currently on there we have ebla Landing which is a canoe launching and it has trails and open so Wester Street has achieved that already so I don't know if that needs to be worded slightly differently and or or reference um maybe M maintaining that or or I don't know but to Fiona's point we don't want to lose the ability to economically develop those spaces um when we have you know some of those resources already on wer Street um yeah I mean that could just be a matter of saying introduce additional open space but also I mean to your point about going over the top and adding too much that it breaks up the commercial Corridor I think um things like like rain Gardens or like bios swells or Street trees along that Corridor I don't like I think there's there's amenities that you can add without like limiting the commercial growth that can still take place there um I think like with denser development um you can definitely have that

accompanied by Street trees and more green infrastructure um could you word that in the action item instead of open space because I think people hear open space and they think something different yeah that's a good point yeah Brian um I would just take out the address um because in past examples we've we didn't want to put the landowner um in a you know into the plan where they would be targeted you know in any way that they might object to it uh so you know it's I think we if you want to leave it in which I'm okay with in terms of green having green space and so forth and and that is uh behind there some some great uh some great areas that could be attract people to town and actually help businesses if it's done the right way um with a boardwalk or whatever but um I would say take out the 92 wer Street yeah that makes sense you just you you're you know kind of putting the owner in a bad position I think if you you'll leave it in there yeah okay that's about it I'm all for the green stuff though that's great okay Fiona yeah just one just for Sam just to provide some more helpful context that so you know our vmu zoning is a good example of like districts that where we kind of go above a little Beyond um and and have specific requirements around like vegetation like Greenery and that type of design so maybe it's a matter of incorporating some of those requirements that we already ask for in vmu districts and merging it with commercial business and neighborhood business districts and

in a way that makes sense you know I I don't want to I don't want to like rewrite the the action item I you know this is a work this is for the working group to decide but it's we I'm just my point being is that we do do this in town already and maybe just that's kind of we can because we can achieve both that way right like new development can come in and they'll still be required through you know local bylaws to to provide what we're asking them to so thanks I think just just to build on that point slightly um in our Economic Development chapter and I think probably our land use chapter to to some extent to the extent that it's relevant to this particular area even the residential part we you know we are I think we are kind of looking in a direction of this Worcester Street area specifically this is the uh this would be Worcester Street between Carol Road and Snow Road which is kind of a concentrated uh business it's sort of the business center of Grafton and on both to the east and west of it there's significant residential development in fact really on all four surrounding it there's significant residential development so if you kind of look at it as a as a whole area uh this could look like something like Like a Village Center um not so much a small scale Village Center because this is really our single largest business center but you could look at taking this area and uh know giving it some of the or planning to evolve it to some of the characteristics of a village mixed use U not entirely but along some of the same lines like Fiona mentioned in in Village mixed use

we it's it's basically more of a a form based zoning code but we have a lot of design guidelines talking about uh various forms of amenity spaces adjacent to the the commercial spaces and so while I'm I'm not going to try to be real specific here but I think some of those Concepts when we when we look at this as a whole U you know this is one of the sort of Village centers that we want we want to be be able to look at from both a commercial development to some extent resid residential development and open space like amenities and so right here in this chapter I think it's entirely appropriate to talk about uh you adding some amenities open space type of things uh you know Finding finding ways to fit that in to the commercial existing and hopefully future commercial development we see here yeah how how do you feel about the possibility of some kind of Waterfront walk along like by Cancun is there space there for that um because I thought was thinking about that as a potential option and I'm not quite sure I think that as as they idea you know looking at some amenities around Lake Ripple where there where there might be opportunities is it's it's something to think about you without without a closer look at it I can't really say uh Brian you had your hand up yes I uh to answer the question I you know I've been on both sides of the pawn there so I know pretty well and there's very little uh I mean depending on what

the town wanted to do um and and how they wanted to design it um um you know you got the highway right there with with absolutely no way to get there except to extend it make make a sidewalk on the inside of the Rails um and behind Cancun is uh um again there's not much much there other than water but I mean conceivably you know with the right construction you certainly could put in a nice walk paath through there um there is some residential um you know on the opposite side of the river um but um you know so I if that helps yeah yeah you can't touch 140 right because it's state yeah okay andry hi for what it's worth when I was running for select board a couple years ago um I had a number of people ask me about exactly this um trying to do something around Lake Ripple so again for what it's worth this isn't the first time I've heard it um so it's interesting that it's in in here and folks have brought that up to me not not you know it's a small sample size but just the same um it was asked of me anything else on this particular topic El um okay so I mean so to close that one out um we're okay with something like this but maybe specifying more that we'd um like to do something

similar to that what was the name of the other District uh the vmu district yeah okay okay uh so next topic um in row okay row 22 um was asking uh uh like row 22 of the the comments Matrix um brought up uh the discussion of conservation restrictions um and ask for more information to be provided in here about that um so I just added a section sort of discussing conservation restrictions and their merits um Ro 24 um there was a discussion about um like a feasibility study that had been done for an emergency pathway um from the North Street Elementary School um and Fiona and I talked about this and she wanted it to be noted that um making new trails like that for emergency services can be prohibitively costly um so we included a b a blurb about that when uh in the discussion of like emergency uh Trail data um row 27 um we talked about uh rewarding a paragraph that was confusing um I don't know why I had that as one of the major things um but um for row 28 um that was just talking about how the planning department um has been uh working on the preservation of contiguous lands were possible um so just including more information about like the work that's already being done there

um in uh row 31 was about the bike plan that had already been done um in 2016 um because we had an action item that was saying to just create a a new bike plan um without mentioning like the updating of the existing plan um so we kind of reshaped that action item I can zoom to that actually um to provide a lot more information about how the existing plan uh or the existing work that's been done could be updated so that's listed here um there was also a discussion about a potential skate park at Perry Hill Park um and there was uh like 50,000 in arpa funds that were dedicated to a conceptual design of the skate park um but because no plan was in place to designate the funds by the end of the of 2024 um the funds were uh moved to another project so it looks like that didn't go anywhere um so we just kind of left that out of the plan because uh but Fiona yes D I was just curious so was this would you you speak to Recreation about it the skateboard work yeah I already did yeah yeah I was just curious because yeah it was one of those things this is really more of like me showing my ignorance here but like I like there was kind of grumblings of it and at one point like when I first started in Grafton it was something that like seemed like it was going to be pursued in Earnest but yeah I this is helpful context because I think just leaving it out because it was it's always been a little bit confusing and if arpa money was the only funding stream for it um and that was reallocated to me it indicates that there might not have been as much of a a local desire um but with that being said I mean if it if it was something like the timing wasn't right funding wise and there was a priority elsewhere um I

guess I just wanted to clarify from from you who who you spoke to if it was something that might resurface later and should be included in the plan as a long-term goal um and I also will kind of pose that question to the working group too because if it's something that that that we want to do we should included in the plan but I never was able to understand if it was actually if that was actually the case that's a good point I I should probably reach out to them again and um like discuss like why that happened in case that's like an issue that could recur um in case that's you know like another project like that just gets uh put aside just because of some maybe like a process issue or something so I I can definitely talk to them about that exactly why it was never dedicated I I think I think from them they just said that they hadn't heard anything from anybody about it in that entire time but you know that begs the question of like well who should have been talking about it you know so and Marie yeah that's probably me this has been kind of a project that I've had on the back burner um for a long time there is an appetite in town but it's amongst a subset of folks who you know it's difficult to kind of um you know get a a group together to push things ahead um this site was deemed not appropriate um based on uh feedback from Neighbors um in terms of where we thought might be a potential site up there at Perry Hill um and then that coupled with uh not realizing that the arpa funds had to be delineated by the end of of the year and not the fiscal year um so again I've been Recreation about this over the years they have typically I'm not sure if there's an appetite currently but you know been on board with a skate park or replacing we had a skate park by the way

um so it's more of replacing the skate park that was torn down um and it's just a matter of you know the appetite and and and trying to get folks uh rallied together to to find a site is the biggest barrier and then I I I don't know if it was 50,000 and it was it could have been between 25 and 50,000 but that would have just scratched the surface that wasn't certainly going to fund a skate park it was just kind of the seed money to um Almost Do you know plans and a study type thing so one barrier is the place and again for me I believe that there's still an appetite um and I think it would be worth leaving it in the master plan but I'm not married to it at this point I was involved in the first one and I'm happy to facilitate a second one um but it'sit just so you know Hoppington just revitalized their skate park and I think it cost a pretty penny but if you wanted to reach out to hopkington and and see how they did it and um some of the companies they use that might might help move you along yeah again you know I don't need this as my project which is part of the the issue um it has been you know my my attempt to help these kids um but it's all just um gaining momentum so I suppose leaving it putting it in a master plan or or at least having some notion to indicate that we had a skate park it was taken down there was has been an appetite uh you know amongst uh the the teenage kids in our town to have something like that and it's just a matter of of trying to you know get some momentum from other folks but the Perry Hill was deemed a site that wouldn't have been um acceptable to to the the the directed

butter um okay any more on this point or should I move to the next one all right I'll go ahead um so row 36 of the implementation or the the comment Matrix was talking about um thinking about options to rely Less on vendors um so I mentioned it briefly um how the committee could uh engage like local performers artists and Craftsmen to provide different types of programming um I realized that in the doc that I sent you or that we sent you um I only had like a sentence written about it so after the fact I sort of went in and expanded on that a bit um where is this vendors um yeah so I just added some information about like you know who they could consult to sort of try to connect with different artists or performers in town um like like the activities that they could engage in stuff like that um row 45 had asked for um more information about how to actually go about expanding the Blackstone River bike way so we added a lot of stuff there um it's in here um this sort of just expands upon um how like you can get from just like having Regional discussions to actually um like the steps that you could take to follow through with it um and then there's some more information in this action item just about like other bik path Connections in town and just like some of the past work that's been done um just because I think it was yeah Fiona had mentioned that like

um discussions in the past kind of didn't really get too far um so that's that um then there was a uh mention of the fact that Grafton is an ms4 community and uh different other water water quality um oh the other thing like the the reason that that's in we're in the Open Space chapter talking about this now is because um um this was like these were different topics that had moved from the NCR chapter into the Open Space chapter um but uh yes so the discussion of Grafton being an ms4 community that was moved into the NCR chapter um and that is discussed when we get into other like water quality topics um and just the different implications there and I I had already touched on how like the whole issue with regionalizing and stuff like that um and then there was a mention of um mini markets in North and South Grafton um as opposed to the full Farmers Market um and I had replied that um that could be an option but I think that it might risk lowering the economic VI viability of the like the primary Town Common Market um and you know it'll sort of dilute the user base uh which could then like you know reduce the atmosphere of it being like a big signature Town Event um so I guess I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on that if that's something that we still want to push for or not having like the Min markets as opposed to a full Farmers Market because I can include it if that is so something that people would want Lindsay uh yeah I'm sorry what is can you explain a little bit like what you're talking about the mini a mini mark yeah I think it just means like other

like smaller scale farmers markets in north and graft sou North and South Grafton to of more people from surrounding towns yeah oh okay I see where okay gotcha interesting okay thank you going I like the idea of just keeping it in there it just helps people you know to creatively think of things differently it might not ever come to fruition but you know maybe think about moving the farmers market you know to different sites each year um instead of centralizing it on the common every year maybe do it in South Grafton on the even years and you know whatever and and see how it grows from there but um yeah I like the idea and okay and Marie I think it's a great idea to leave in there and as our population grows perhaps um you know having multiple markets might be feasible so I I I like it like keeping it keeping it in as an idea as an idea yeah and in fact you you you could possibly I I don't remember off the top my head how you worded it in here but U mini markets they you you might have a general purpose sort of a general all-encompassing Farmers Market your mini markets might be special purpose ones or or particular themes and it's just you know speculative it is point but I think just to reinforce the the the idea is perhaps worth mentioning uh just is something to think about again as someone else said it may never come to fruition but it's it's an idea which kind of resonates with the fact that know Grafton does have sort of three centers or or more depending on how you count them but sort of the uh

the predominant division of graft into North Center and South um sort of it's sort of at least it's a hint that maybe you could do something comparable to the farmers market if if not moving the whole thing around you know you might have some something call it a mini market or whatever you want you might have something that uh that that draws the focus and one to North Grafton or to South graft whatever Lindsay yeah I think the idea of you know moving it from place to place is great and I guess you know whatever it all the all the potential ideas about it are great so it should I think it's it's excellent to add into you know a plan especially since it's you know a master plan for you know 20 years ahead um or so so yeah I like it okay um oh is there anything else anything else on this topic uh not for me but for for the Open Space chapter we also there was one other thing about um exploring alternative re revenue streams um so I I I had like a bit at the beginning oh I'm in the NCR chapter um um someone had wanted to have more of a discussion about different alternative Revenue structures for conservation efforts so I included that as an action item right here there it is

no there's so many things to begin with uh explore alternative revenue streams um so I just I it's pretty self-explanatory um just gave a few different options um other than that uh I think that's it for this chapter if there's any questions okay Brian yeah I just want to step back just for a second um and it just bring us up to uh Sam and asked the question yeah uh the biom mapping that they talked about you know through the document um has there been any discussion about ways of connecting different areas in terms of you know so that either crossing streets or you know either bridging certain areas or or tunneling certain areas where where where uh there could be Wildlife that would be able to cross without being hit by cars you know certain areas that might this might apply to where there would be this biomap that you you've got going on here and know that as I travel you know some states like New Jersey you get down one of the major highways and you'll see there are bridges with trees on them you know where the the wildlife can cross the major highway you know without getting hit you know so it keeps that track of land contiguous if you will you know so that there's um you know there's Wildlife that can that can get across or or even under and uh if you go into in some places where they you know they actually have tunnels under where where you know people can go from one neighborhood to another so for instance

um here in in North Grafton where they put the Mass Pike through the middle of the of the Town years ago you know they didn't leave any way of of of creating a an ability to go continue that neighborhood on you know you kind of blocked it all off so in the end of Carol Road here we just have the Mass Pike um closer to the city you'd have a tunnel that would lead to the to the neighborhood next door you know where they had put the highway through so that's just you know not saying that that's what they should do I'm just saying that has there been any discussion about anything like that or anything um brought up uh in that area I don't think we mentioned Wildlife craft Crossings uh specifically but that's a good point um and I think we we could even just have that as own action item um so I can go back and update that yeah expand on what that could look like great thanks p I I think I'm sorry I lost it oh I got it sorry um so quickly the um payment and L just um can you just scroll to to that so is it that would be if a private developer was investing and they had an option instead of I'm just wi I'm pulling this out of yeah you know if they decided um oh we need to like maximize the space that we have on this particular plot of land so we'll opt in for giving the town money and a fund to build you know a park that's that's kind of how you would Envision this playing out yeah yeah

okay and then what if it's is is this um action item something that can be employed or used by the town in a meaningful way outside of just relying on new development I didn't read all of the um specifics but it's typically what I see whenever there's a payment in Li it's usually B It's usually the the responsibility is placed on a developer that and then they fund it so it's kind of relying always on new development um is this also is this that's kind of what you're trying to achieve here or is this a way that we can generate Revenue without having to rely on new development coming into town like I think the the option I mean as I envisioned it when I had looked into it was just for like the new development so okay um and just yeah all right any other that's it for for like what I have to show you guys so so any other comments questions on the uh open space and Recreation chapter draft here I'll just note that uh I noticed a couple of specific numbers that were in there uh that are inconsistent with the data I have uh I won't dwell on mention that I I will I will send that to you Sam and try to try to resolve the uh I think we should beat about that because I I went back and checked after you sent me that and and I still got the

numbers that I got so we can sort of walk each other through how we arrived there yep yep that's that's something yeah I'm happy to deal with that with you know sure directly directly with you rather than take up the committee's time sure and just if if nothing else if no one has anything else I mean just I'm wondering how we're going to proceed with sort of the you know the getting this to its final form particular in particular proof reading for you know typos and and I think you know there's there's a couple cases I noticed where yeah you need someone with local knowledge to make sure that all the correct names and terms for things are used and so presumably that's the kind of thing that I would expect to be covered sort of you know once you once so some sort of a final editing or proof reading pass and that's that's I don't think we're ready for that quite yet just wondering how Sarah what you what's what's your plan for getting the fin the the finer details nailed down and you consistency of terminology and all that sort of thing yeah uh in terms of typos and more grammar problems we are having a copy edit round now from somebody who has no idea about the grafted master plan doing more of like more an editorial copy edit in terms of local knowledge I'm not sure if we have a place um we have a process

in place other than this committee helping us with that context or if a street name is wrong um we can do our best but if you have somebody certain in mind that could be helpful that'd be great at this point to bring that eye in well yeah that is something that that is something that uh I will sometimes go off the deep end in my attention to detail like that so so yeah I mean if nothing else I can I can send you uh the things that I've observed but if but if you want if you want someone from Grafton to sort of look over look it over as a whole um I I I can do that and I'm there may be someone else also who would love to do that on behalf of Grafton but that if F wanta knows that's that's the kind of thing that I tend to uh pay pay a lot of attention to detail sometimes I miss things but sounds like you a job so however you want to however you want to work at however you want to involve us uh in in making sure that everything in there is talking about graft and the way and people would understand it absolutely yeah um I think as as soon as we can get a good draft down it'll be easier for us to do the final plan public publication uh so we're always taking comments but for these next two weeks that would be the most helpful for us so we can get a draft done and what we talked about with Fiona was mid-march April um so we are in that last phase of trying to get it as polished as possible

and bringing you a full draft of the plan yeah we we would like to get this done we've been working toward this now for a year and a half or so yeah we have good news next month will be implementation which I know you've been all waiting so patiently for yes it's a rather important part of it yes yay all right anything else anything else any you know what what what do you know now about what we were like are likely to be seeing at the March meeting March will be we'll check back in on the Hassam manisco question um for sure and then the bulk of the meeting will be looking at implementation narrative and Matrix and hopefully filling in the gaps we're not sure of on that local knowledge of who will be implementing and making sure we get the context right on that okay let me see what does my agenda say public input is an an agenda item is there any any public input I we don't have any attendees on Zoom um if any of us here in the meeting have anything that would qualify as public input now would be the time the next agenda item is any other items which may lawfully come before the working group assuming there are none unless somebody raises their hand uh it's just a motion to adjourn would be an order so moved second moved and seconded that this

meeting be adjourned Mr Carol car's I miss Duckworth hi Miss Fox I is anarie has left no Amry there sorry Miss Foley FY I miss George I Mr hul hi Mr Petri uh I think Mr Petri has left the room uh Mr Robbins votes I Miss Robbins I miss Roy motion carried unanimously we are adjourned