Information Technology Committee - Regular Meeting

Compasse de lista de los asistentes. Amomar Clark me notificó que no pudo asistir a la reunión, por lo que se hace constar su ausencia. Bob Carroll.

Carroll está aquí.

Bob Hasser. Lucas Remblart.

Yeah.

Lucas, are you there?

Yes, give me a second.

I don't know why it doesn't capture my audio.

Do you have any video?

Yes, I'm activating it now too.

Listo.

¿Qué tal ahora?

No veo tu video. Sigues como asistente. Déjame ver si puedo ascenderte a panelista. Ah, listo. Listo. Solo tengo que cambiar mi nombre. Entonces, las dos instancias de tomador de notas, esas son tuyas. Supongo, Lucas.

No sé por qué. Puedes expulsarlas a ambas. Eliminar.

Eliminate. Zoom wants to know if I should report these note takers to Zoom. As I know where they come from, I think it's safe to say that... We don't need to report you to Zoom. Everything looks much better. I talked to Evan last night. He said he would join the meeting tonight if he could... And no, no, William. No, William. So we have a recording of the meeting. Oh no. So try to make sure that doesn't happen too often. First point of order of the day, public contributions. If someone in this Zoom webinar, whether as a panelist or as an assistant, has something to suggest to the committee that is not in the order of the day, now would be the time. No tengo asistentes de Zoom y, a menos que uno de nosotros tenga algo, quedará constancia de que no hubo aportaciones del público. Siguiente punto de la agenda.

Actualización del administrador. Si Evan estuviera presente, quizá tendría algo para nosotros.

Pero hablando con él por última vez, le pregunté si tenía algo para el comité esta semana. Y dijo que no. Dijo que probablemente tendría algo para el comité para nuestra próxima reunión. Y en una línea similar, el siguiente punto. Del orden del día es la política de ella de la que básicamente elaboramos. Un primer borrador de la última reunión y se lo enviamos a Eva. Cuando hablé con él anoche, tardé un poco en enviárselo. Así que me avergüenzo. Pero reconoció que lo había visto, pero que estaba en su lista. De cosas por hacer, todavía no había tenido la oportunidad de hablar. He said that he would see if he could read it at least once at some point today and contribute his ideas to the meeting. It seems that that did not happen. So basically we left it for the last meeting because we wanted to get the comments and questions to advance about it before taking another step. So unless someone here has something to add to what we've already done, I'll leave it in order of the day for next time. Next point in the order of the day is if we have any debate that interests us about the Flock 9 cameras. Bob Hesinger has written a fairly brief report on the Flock 9 cameras. You know what they do, how they're supposed to work, and some of the problems that people have had with them.

I think, or rather, I didn't mention it or it wasn't transmitted that it was produced by IA. I had forgotten the two things that happened, but I think the message probably said where it came from. It seemed to be a pretty good job. No estoy seguro de que mencionar todo el asunto de la propiedad de los datos que ha estado circulando el último día o así. Sí.

Entonces, ¿dónde estaba eso, Bob? ¿Dónde estaba ese resumen?

¿Qué era? Está en el proyecto de ley. Está en el paquete de la reunión.

Nada.

No.

Ni error. Supongo que debería haber abierto el paquete de la reunión.

Lo que decía el...

No? Ahí es donde encontré mi error.

Ahí es donde encontré el enlace para hacer esto.

Bueno, en esta línea y también tiene que ver con la cuestión de la política.

¿Puedo publicar algo?

¿Algo? Tenemos una pizarra aquí. ¿Tienes que activarla? Tengo un enlace.

Podemos hacerlo.

No sé si lo único que va a pegar es de la página del departamento de policía de Grafton. Ahora han publicado una política de ALPR. No sé si lo habían visto, así que imagino que es del jefe o de alguien autorizado para hacer lo mismo. Y pensé que era bastante interesante. I'm not going to make too many comments, but I'll let you see it because it was a fairly recent change on their website and I see that they had like three or four more links for transparency and those disappeared. Part of that was the contract, the language and, essentially, the work statement that they made, that they executed. And all that disappeared.

The... Pizarra.

It's a Pizarra that I can stick.

I've never used the Zoom Pizarra.

I know I use the classic Pizarra. So if I stick this... I don't know if I want the Pizarra. Maybe the chat is better. There it is. Well... Here is the link to what I was talking about. And I mentioned it because, you know, for reasons of coherence, right? So that you can see what the Grafton MPD does. And to be honest, I had already seen it before and these policies are Basically, they took the DCE template, as they call it, D-C-E-A-A-A or D-C-E-S, and they just took the template and changed like three things. And that's what they publish as their policy. And if we look at the eight, it's something suspicious. There is no record of changes, right? And there are some others elements that are signs of alert about this. So I don't know where this policy came from, but I don't know if you know that there are more of these, but I think we would like to have some coherence between what the people and the police do or not, right? I mean, I could see it going in any direction, but we should know, I think, if they were doing politics.

There has been a lot of debate on Facebook, and perhaps in other places, recently, as today, with some fairly solid connections with terms and conditions, and in particular about who has the data. Bill McCusker has published something very good today. Apparently he is very involved in his work, dealing with some of these things and has made some comments, but basically only the data without processing belong to Grafton. Everything else belongs to Block and there is no guarantee that nothing will disappear.

Bueno, la otra cosa que se ha mencionado con Flock es que los datos que mejoran son, ya sabes, los datos mejorados por IA.

Sí, estoy intentando llegar a eso. Se supone que los datos sin procesar pertenecen a Grafton. No sé si eso significa que hay alguna otra copia de los datos sin procesar. Yes, the main thing seems to be that they are using it to train the IA or that they reserve the right to train the IA and who knows how much of that could contain. What bothers me is that there is no recognition in any of the things that I have seen that have come out of the boss or the administration or, you know, from any of the local people about it. Y también me preocupa lo que nos dijeron antes de que se produjera esa famosa votación en la Asamblea Municipal para decir, vale, que pongan las cámaras. Y no estoy seguro de que nos hayan dicho toda la verdad sobre eso. Y eso es un problema desde mi punto de vista, dada la forma en que se ha difundido.

Sí, creo que tendríamos que volver a la reunión, ¿verdad, Bob? The recording of the meeting to see what they told us.

Well, the only thing is that what the Finance Committee said seems to be one of the places in which it was debated. And that is very important. Okay, you know it's an element. Relevant? Well, no. I know it could be someone to make the blockades disappear. Like in the municipal assemblies.

Yes. Well, I mean that as a representative of the DTI committee or something like that, as a citizen, this was financed essentially with subsidies. That's what I've understood so far. So when the subsidy expires, I don't know, it's a three-year subsidy or whatever, and that's what Framingham does. Others just don't renew it.

Asegúrate de que aparezca en la reunión municipal como un elemento discernible que se pueda mantener y votar en contra. Y eso, eso es. O sea, tal vez tengamos a alguien del Comité de Finanzas a quien podamos preguntarle. ¿Cómo funciona?

Verdad? Sí. Y la otra parte, envié un correo electrónico en mi nombre, contacté con el jefe y le dije, oye, mira, sabes, hey, esto estaba evolucionando, así que fue muy pronto. Una de las declaraciones que se transmitieron y lo que dijo el jefe, estaba claro que realmente no tenía un conocimiento fundamental de muchas de las piezas y componentes de la tecnología. I mean, to the point that I thought the data was recorded somewhere. Yes, yes.

That's it.

That's it. So my list. And you know what? I marked it to say, hey, look, you know we're a resource, right? We know this. You know you can ask your questions. We are not trying to, you know, we are a friendly resource, right? We would be friendly, you know, as part of the city, a resource to educate and perhaps identify some of the gaps, holes and misunderstandings and some of these things before you go and do this workshop with which you are committed. And well, you know. I mean, if some of these publications and Bill's publication, I mean, they're going to catch him if he tries to speak in his own way. You know, some of the things I did about the authentication of two factors and you know, another important thing is the precision of these things, right? You know, because they are readers and you know, they do it and they transpose it and you know, they make mistakes all the time and it's like a high rate of error for these things, so there's a lot of trouble. And unless he brings Floch, right? So that he represents himself, right? And they talk about it. No. I think it's going to be fine.

It's a sworn testimony. You know, the Unification Council can swear.

Or yes.

Well, it never happened in my time. But when I entered the council, I noticed that somewhere in all things we could have sworn testimony. Nunca había oído que ocurría, pero bueno.

Sí. Bueno, ya veremos. Un par de los otros que he estado siguiendo ahora. Estoy bastante cerca. Dijo que sí, que iba a realizar este taller, pero parece que la fecha se aleja cada vez más y quién sabe cuándo va a suceder finalmente. ¿No te parece que es así? Sí, pero pensé que esa publicación de esa abogada de contratos especializada en datos, ¿verdad? I mean, it was very convincing and it's like, you know, he exposed it all very well, you know, it was almost like a procedure, right? He explained it much better than I could do in terms of explaining a large part of this, yes. Well, yes, I mean, there's another small part of this, right? And if they removed the work declaration, hopefully, I would have downloaded it because I didn't do it. And it would be a shame. But when I look at it, you know, they chose the posts, right? And these cameras, in many cases, were not simply tied to the existing posts. They were posts like the one below, next to the windmills. And that's more highway, right? M2. And I know that M2 has codes for everything, including security posts and all that. And you have to go in front of them. It's a state highway. And you know, blah, blah. I don't think any of that ever happened. They just came and, you know, they did it in the middle of the night sometimes. And it's like, well, if we're only doing this, blah, blah, blah. And you know. Hey, how do you do that? And he goes out with his, his.

Because you can do whatever you want unless someone complains. Esa es una regla básica que aprendí hace mucho tiempo. Bueno, pero, ¿cuál era la otra parte? Hay otra parte de esto. Oh, da la casualidad de que pasé dos o tres años diseñando y supervisando la instalación de la comunidad. Metro Femen. La mayor parte del tiempo lo pasé preocupándome por cómo llegar a las urnas. The owners of the urns have rules.

It's as if, all of a sudden, in the middle of the night, all these things would have grown right there, as if they were mushrooms. All of a sudden, there they are. How does that happen? Well, yes. And that's flour from the other side. But I'm not sure where it would fit. You mean the boss doesn't do anything about it? I don't think that's something from Grafton's planning, right? Sí. Básicamente parece que están colocando los postes directamente en el pueblo o directamente en el Estado.

Y sí, el Estado tiene reglas. No sé. ¿Qué tipo de reglas tiene el pueblo? Nunca tuve que hacer esa pregunta. ¿Qué tipo de aprobaciones necesitas para colocar un letrero o poste o cualquier cosa dentro del derecho de paso del pueblo?

Pero el pueblo sería propiedad del pueblo, ¿cierto? Entonces tendrías que solicitar algún permiso, ¿cierto? Porque no es tu tierra.

Probablemente el permiso para erigir algo en el pueblo vendría de la junta selecta. No sé si el DPV tiene algún rol en la concesión de permisos para dirección de cosas en el pueblo. En general es el DPV el responsable de mantener todo en el pueblo de inmediato.

Well, and then, as you said, the owners of the posts, who would they be? I don't remember. I don't remember. Is it the electrical company or who?

I think it's the electrical company in Grafton. But it's city in city. Entre and Power. I think it's Power and Grafton.

The posts are joint ownership of Grid. In Grafton, Grid is responsible for... Reemplazar los postes y elegir postes. De vez en cuando National Grid acude a la junta directiva para una audiencia sobre la instalación o retirada de un poste.

Sí. Sí. Todo el tiempo. Siempre está en la agenda. Sí.

Así que, sí, ahí es donde entran los postes. Si tienes una de estas cosas en un cuenco existente, leí un artículo en algún lugar One or two weeks ago I was talking about this same problem in some other municipality, in some place in this country. I don't remember where it was. They were talking about, you know, security problems of those Flock camera posts. And if I remember correctly, they quoted the company Flock. Insisting that they comply with all the rules applicable in

Well, Floch says a lot of things that have been caught, but that's all.

That's what they say. Right? If that's the reality, it's another question.

Right? And look quickly, because I pass by there all the time, right? The one that's next to the whirlpools, where you see that pole. I looked at the base quickly, and the post, and I thought that this is not like what is usually seen in the MDOT, you know, like the indicator that is, you know, all that is galvanized, not painted, right? It's just a black post, you know? You know, someone opened a bag of mud, made a hole in it, put a post in it, and they said it was ready. It doesn't have a break connector, right? It's... Yeah. But I don't know what kind of legs it has, but...

Well, could a complaint be made to the M2? Yes.

Yes. And what? We have like a dozen of these beds. I only know that because all the time. But I'm sure that the others are also on state roads, right?

Well, some are not. Right?

Yes.

The one that is in the 140 going down from Shrewsbury, I can say that it is not. The 140 is an urban road at the exit of Kinsigan Corner.

¿Dónde está? Ni siquiera sé dónde está esa. ¿Dónde está la cámara ahí?

En el límite de la ciudad.

¿En el límite de la ciudad? Shrewsbury.

Nuestro límite de la ciudad con Shrewsbury. Bajando de Shrewsbury. Sí, sí. Entonces, ¿dónde está esa carretera? En Shrewsbury, lo que sea que esté en Grafton 140.

Entonces, ¿está cerca de la ruta 20?

No muy lejos de.

Tendré que mirar. Sometimes I don't see it, but I'll look and see where it is.

Now, it may be that for the roads of the city there is a permission assumed, implicit or explicit given because the city made the deal with the. Right. Yes. That's a good point.

The last thing I saw, I think it said that there are 12 fire cameras in Grafton. Yes. I suspect that most of those are in the town immediately. Most of the roads that connect Grafton with the adjacent municipalities are... town roads.

Westboro Road, Old Westboro Road...

I think there's a close-up of where they are. The place of hot dogs... Bradishes. Yes, Bradish.

Because I go there every day. That's the one Bob's talking about. I think... The one I mention is a little higher. The one I talk about in Creeper Hill Road.

Yes. It's further north of Bradley Sheds. Maybe there's another one.

There must be two. I'm sure maybe more along the 122 that is closed from end to end.

Of course.

There's one in Gwen Sigmund Corner.

I don't have to look next time. What happens?

Yes, I've never researched it enough to try it, but I've heard that somewhere there was a map on the town's website that showed where everyone was. I don't know if it's still there, but I've never looked at it. I'm not as interested as you are.

Well, take the map of the town and look at all the places where the roads cross the border.

That will be all. I don't know if we have any small ones.

Well, I bet there's none at the top of Suffield Road.

No, probably not. There's Suffield Road. I think Spring Hill Road comes out of the town towards North Bridge. It's a small road. It's not likely there's any there. They're there. A while ago, for other purposes, I was drawing a map of all the roads, of all the places where a road crosses a limit from Grafton to another town.

Leland at the foot of George Hill, in the direction of Upton. Hey!

Leland Street leads to Upton.

Well, there's Leland Street and Leland Road, right? There's a Leland in South Grafton. I think it crosses the line.

There's Leland Street at the end of our street. There's Leland Hill Road, which is in St. Mary's. And then, no, that's Leland Avenue, the one that's close to St. Mary's. Leland Hill is the one that's in South Grafton and can cross the border to North Bridge.

And what about the one that's Maple? What action would we like to see? You know, what can we do?

Y creo que he oído algo clave que al menos podemos ofrecernos a involucrar al jefe en la discusión y aclaración de los problemas técnicos. Problemas técnicos de TI relacionados con esto.

Bueno, y potencialmente también con la gobernanza y la política, ¿verdad? Because that's another part of this, you know, the authentication, the audit, right? How do they behave to the extent that you know they have, that they are demonstrable and capable of reproducing the results of their audits, right? They say they check the register, but unless they can, you know, present proof of compliance, right? Alguien firmó y dijo si a finales de julio revisé los registros. Lo hice. Nunca sucedió. No, ningún auditor en ningún lugar aprobaría eso.

¿Te refieres al departamento de policía? Sí, nuestro departamento de policía revisa el registro de los accesos que se hicieron, que es donde descubrirías que alguien que tuvo acceso estaba persiguiendo a su exnovia.

He has it. Exactly. And that's local, right? And that's something they could implement. It's a difficult task, right? They could do it. And it would be something that we would offer them and we would help them because, again, the most important problem is constitutionality. And some of these other things will be solved at some point, right? Well, not here, but at least we can help them with some of the lagunas que existen a nivel local, ¿verdad? La otra parte es que, bueno, sé que dijo que usan autenticación de dos factores, pero si usan autenticación de dos factores con un teléfono móvil o algún otro método que se pueda pescar, ya no es aceptable, ¿verdad? Y eso realmente tiene que hacerse con Algo como una clave biométrica o algo que pruebe tu identidad, ¿verdad? Algo que no se pueda pescar.

Eso. Dos factores para acceder a los datos de Flood Grafton o a cualquier dato de la aplicación Flood. A la gente se le ha dado permiso para hacerlo.

Porque Evan dijo la última vez que usan el inicio de sesión único. Así que sería para que accedan a todas las aplicaciones que tienen controladas. Supongo que pasan por Microsoft para su identidad. Tratando de pensar en cuál es el producto de Microsoft. No somos una tienda de Microsoft, así que... Bien por ti. Un ID de Azure o algo así. Es algo así como un ID del producto de Microsoft. Sí, tendrían que pasar por eso, pero necesitarían o deberían estar usando un token proveniente de una oferta biométrica.

No. But supposedly they're not, and supposedly they can be. But yes, I mean, that's... Well, they say what I've seen. You know, the police department wants to do some research, or who knows who, beyond that, you know, Shrewsbury wants to meet someone, the boss, or someone says he's fine and does something so they can get in. What do they have for authorization? What guarantees that the person who was given permission is the person who already You know?

Yes, I mean, there's a whole Pandora's box and the other one, I don't know what they do with their... You know, I'm sure that all the guys in the patrol cars, the cruisers, have terminals, computers, and how they manage and control, right? Because, in theory, someone, you know, could start a session on them and, you know, I don't know, or they could even see themselves committed and have, you know, only God knows what other application software there is that could be keyboard pulsation registers and, you know, malware that is getting all this anyway after the fact. But again, that's something local, right? Something that the boss could do something, right? You know, it's not where we're trying to address the security of the band. You know, with thousands of millions of dollars and high-level lawyers and all that.

There is another thing that bothers me. I have been disconnected from the operation of storage issues and simply administering them for too long. You know, things have gone out of hand. But then I had to make copies of security on tapes.

You have. Ah, right. How does that work?

Now with the type of systems we're talking about. Do they still make copies of the tapes? Or copies of security that are stored somewhere?

They probably use a RAID of two systems. You know, they probably have a local security copy and then there's probably an external security copy. Based on the cloud.

Yes.

But that's only now.

Eso no es hacer una grabación y ponerla en una estantería en algún lugar. Recuerdo que tengo dos recuerdos de los viejos tiempos. Vale. Los datos están fuera de mi sistema. Pero están en las cintas que hice. ¿Verdad? Y si alguien los quiere, puede acceder a las cintas. Y las cintas en mi situación iban hacia atrás, y atrás, y atrás. Sí. Me parece recordar que alguien famoso en su día se metió en un gran problema en Nueva York, Washington, porque pensó que había eliminado los datos clave. Incluso podría haber sido un sistema todo en uno, pero resultó que solo un sistema como ese.

Creo que fue mucho de Hillary Clinton con los correos electrónicos.

No me remonto antes de eso. Como Watergate o ya sabes, hace mucho tiempo. Hace mucho tiempo que borró los datos. No, no lo hizo. Había cintas y alguien tuvo razón para descubrir que había cintas y, según recuerdo, se metió en un montón de problemas. Quería preguntarle a AI sobre eso, pero no llegué.

Creo que en muchos sitios es solo respaldo automático redundante. As if there was nothing to do. It is simply stored in one location and then there is a copy of security stored in a second location.

That if this is compromised, it allows you to obtain the information or access it. Wherever it is stored again. But there is also.

An aspect of the security copy, which is something like, I don't know if you would call it historical or archival, but you make a security copy of the data, you capture the data as they existed at a certain date and time and you keep them forever. And then you could do it, for example, if you make weekly security copies. It is possible that you keep all and every one of them. And that leads us to a question like, let's suppose that the data of Grafton that is supposed to be eliminated after 30 days, but let's suppose that part of them end up in a long-term storage of security copies. So three years later, you go back to the security copy from three years ago and you get everything from Grafton that was later eliminated, but it's still there in that security copy.

and the kind of things I'm talking about.

How does Flock manage that? If something is going to be deleted, how is it guaranteed that the data will be permanently deleted?

Well, once they are deleted, they are completely deleted. All copies must be deleted.

Right. Pero estos son todos puntos que podríamos plantearle al jefe. Ya sabes que tendrá que responder a ellos y si no sabe la respuesta a estas preguntas, no será bueno que lo asesoremos.

Lamentablemente, supongo que el jefe es mejor haciendo cumplir las leyes que adentrándose en el procesamiento de datos.

Pero él, ya sabes, es como el capitán. Because normally it's a commutation by mistake and you know what they do in the router? So if a site stops functioning like when there was a tornado in Emson, a commutation occurs by mistake and you have a geographical, geometric separation. Correct. You want it to be in a different time zone so that the tornado doesn't occupy both sites.

When a natural disaster doesn't destroy everything.

Correct. Correct. So you have that. But the backup is definitely a legitimate point. And I think David, what you were referring to was what they call the point of recovery goal and the recovery time goal. Can I afford to lose this amount of data? And if you are like Amazon or you know a minor with a great online presence, right? As you know, Amazon.com or Elevan or one of these big ones, you pay a lot of money to not lose or lose anything for that redundancy. If you are someone who only has a website and you know that you sell family things or whatever, it's like losing a day. It's not a big deal. But again, all of that is part of what it does and manages. The other part of this, and I know because we deal with this, is housed in Amazon. They are AWS web services, Amazon Web Services, and there are standards. And all of this is part of FedRAMP IF. a governmental standard. I think the NIST is... I have to see which organism is behind FedRAMP. It's the NIST or the executive power, but there are a lot of controls, like 400 controls that must be implemented, that must be implemented. And is FedRAMP moderate? And is FedRAMP high? And to reach those standards, I mean, you really have to have everything under control and there have to be many controls. It's very expensive. And all this accumulated data is in those data centers. Once they are in the data center, it's fine. But what do they do with them? That's the problem. And then the other part is like, how do they get from the cameras? The data in motion, the data in transition, how do they get from the cameras to the data center? Are they encrypted all the way? Because again, that was something that they put in evidence from the beginning. It was not encrypted and it was detectable. You already know that those final points are easy to hack. So if there is a lot here,

Y creo que vimos que dijeron que estaba encriptado, pero no sé más allá de eso qué o quién lo estaría interceptando en un momento dado.

Quiero decir, pero hay videos de gente haciéndolo todo el tiempo.

Y de nuevo, ya sabes.

Podría ser para demostrar que va mal con Flock o para hacer algo nefasto.

No, estaban motivados únicamente por intentar entrar en la fase de cambio. Así que sí.

Sí es posible. Alguien lo hará. Correcto.

Correcto. Well, what I mean is that at the end of the day, David, maybe as president, you could approach and say, hey, we are a resource for you. We want to talk to you. We are friends, right? We could raise some of these convincing points, right? Some of the most outstanding points. And then, if we don't have the answers, but this is something you should find out, right?

Some of the questions we are asking here are that all this depends on Flock, on how they manage the data, because basically we are an interface for them. And many of our questions have more to do with what Flock promises us what they affirm about how they manage the data and that basically covers a lot of territory. Many of these questions, you know, no one in Grafton could answer. Some of these technical questions, questions, but they all have a lot to do, as I said, they have a lot to do with how Flock manages the data that we trust.

Right? And as part of the risk of third parties, you know, when you investigate a provider, normally this happens as if we use a SIG derivative, what they call SIG, SIG Lite, SIG Lite. It is a standard group of industries. It is essentially a spreadsheet and a lot of questions, all about these areas of practice that a provider has to enumerate and say how it fulfills. And before doing business with them, you know, we get it, we evaluate it, and it's like, yes, yes, yes, no, no, no. So we could give them what I have. You can give them to the boss. And it's as if all these questions were done.

And if you think about it to a certain extent, these concerns go far beyond the herd, because we trust our data to many external providers. All these applications that were accessed on the web are no longer local. We are not hosting the data locally. We are not running the applications locally. We are trusting a lot of our data to, you know, other transparent governments.

Sure. Well, transparent governments. I mean, supposedly that's public, right?

Ese no es el mejor ejemplo. No recuerdo el sistema de contabilidad que usamos.

Rada. Bada.

Bada.

Sí.

Estamos confiando muchas cosas.

Sí. Y las cosas de la escuela, ¿verdad? Todos los niños. ¿Cómo los llaman? 401, no 401. ¿Eso es finanzas? ¿Cuáles son los planes? ¿Planes del IE?

Sí. Some of the same questions arise in all those contexts as well. We, as a committee, have not been involved in any... We have not been involved in many of those relationships.

I mean, that's another good topic to mention, David, you know?

So, to a certain extent, the concerns with Flow. To a certain extent, those concerns are identical to the concerns that we have or should have with people like Radar and the school. And you know, all the applications that we externalize.

So we shouldn't let a crisis be wasted, right? Yes. What I think I'll do is...

Intentar recopilar algunas ideas aquí, pero me pondré en contacto con Evan y a través de Evan con el jefe.

Definitivamente creo que Evan querría participar en esto.

Claro.

Pero sí, considero que, tal como tú lo has mencionado, Bob, tú. No buscamos encontrar defectos ni encontrar fallos. Buscamos. Or at least guide them on the questions they should ask. No tenemos que responder necesariamente a todas las preguntas nosotros mismos, pero creo que estamos en una buena posición para ayudarlos a hacer las preguntas correctas. Algunas de las preguntas de las que hemos estado hablando, estoy bastante seguro de que a nadie del personal de la ciudad se le ha ocurrido hacer.

Quiero decir, no quiero que todo el mundo se lo pregunte, pero... Ese gerente de TI del que hablamos sería una persona. Estaría en posición de hacer esto.

Si tuviéramos un empleado local cuya principal responsabilidad fuera esa, esa sería.

Es... William? Supone que es William?

Ese no es nadie ahora mismo.

No lo sé, pero no es acaso ahí donde su puesto. Y algunas de sus ideas... ¿Es parte de eso?

Creo que está intentando mantener ese barco a flote. Sí. En realidad, tanto Evan como yo probablemente en cierto grado, pero...

La persona de la que estamos hablando aquí es, si esa persona existiera como empleado municipal, es alguien que es realmente fuerte en eso. Alguien que entiende muchos de los detalles que manejamos. Y el personal que tenemos ahora, en la medida en que varios miembros del personal They handle some elements that are not their main job, and that is not the set of abilities for which we hire them.

So we know who does it for the police. Is it under the same contract that Evan has for the municipal side or do they have their own?

I don't know. I know that when they signed, they had, they had. I understood that there was someone in the police functions who knew how to do what was necessary.

The same with the firefighters, right?

I think that to a certain extent our current TI contractor works with the police and the firefighters, but I think they can also have their own person who is more informed than most of their staff about Así que no sé. Realmente no tengo ningún conocimiento actual sobre eso.

Correcto.

De todos modos, creo que tenemos algo a lo que podemos acercarnos y ofrecer. Lo que sabemos y lo que nuestra experiencia en varios elementos del tema podemos poner a su disposición. Lo que hagan con eso, por supuesto, depende de ellos.

Correcto.

But I think, you know, a way to say it is that maybe we can help them formulate better answers to the questions that the public asks us. And we can help them and we can offer them advice on what else they might need or want to do to ensure the functioning of this system. Anyway, we're starting to slow down a little. It's about 8 o'clock. So I'll get in touch with Evan about this and we'll see where we can get. Something more about Floke right now. I'm sure it's a topic that's not going to disappear soon.

No, no.

Okay. Let's continue with our order of the day. The next point of order of the day. It was the data centers, which are another hot topic these days. I don't know to what extent we can do something that can contribute to what the city is doing. If we have any idea or advice to offer, except the planning board that is currently studying the data centers and the zoning of the same.

Bueno, supongo que tengo una pregunta más que el centro de datos que está en Cent, la parte delantera, está en Grafton, el césped, el... Camino de entrada. Vale.

Camino de entrada y un césped que llevan a una puerta que está en algún lugar cerca del límite de la ciudad.

Y luego la parte de la estructura está toda en Shrewsbury. So, who has jurisdiction over that?

Shrewsbury. Jurisdiction in what aspect?

Planification?

Wait. Okay.

Well, none of that that they would have to...

Obtain a special permission from the PL for the planning of Grafton. For the Grafton part, you know that I was there.

What is the door and the entrance?

Isa, it's okay. Talking about traffic, blah, blah, blah. Some of us took a tour through the thing that wasn't completely operational when they were building it.

That was when the street... That was when State Street, right?

So, Lights Out State Street has energy. The New England Electric and Shrewsbury Electric separately.

Apu. Todo. La... Redundante.

Dos separados en lados. Opuestos de edificio. Aire acondicionado. Lados opuestos. Todo. O. Lo era. Pero ahora que... No se ha hecho cargo de... Y me pregunto si realmente está haciendo algún trabajo.

Sí, acabo de ver que se vendió.

Esos datos de rebaño podrían estar ahí.

Iba a decir que podría estarlo... Parte del tiempo.

Los datos pueden moverse por la red de AWS, ¿no? ¿No?

Bueno, no si estás en la reserva federal rampa, no tanto. Bueno, pero podrían, podrían, aquí es donde se complica. They could anonymize some of the models and images and all that, and then they become herd data. And it is possible that they are not subject to all the controls of the data of the Federal Reserve ramp, which are customer data. So they could be playing all kinds of games.

But they choose where the customer data is stored, right? Verdad? ¿En qué servidor, en cuál de sus servidores se almacenan los datos de los clientes?

No sé, no sé, no... No, todo tiene que estar en la rampa de la Reserva Federal, que también tiene controles exteriores. Así que todo tiene que estar en un centro de datos.

Verdad, pero AWS... Amazon puede decidir qué centro de datos.

No, debe contar con certificación FedRAMP. Solo hay unas pocas instalaciones con certificación FedRAMP.

Well, we don't know if the Sherbury one is.

Yes, I doubt it a lot because it is very expensive to get it.

I think in the general context of OBS in the installation of Shburi is quite small.

That's why I wonder if the storage for small companies is something similar.

to small companies.

Or they could use it for logistics, you know, as part of their own internal affairs.

I imagine that they have changed the team since the times when it was the bank, probably about 20 or so years ago. I'm not sure if it's that much, but if it's getting close to that, But well, they can probably do much more there than they used to do. It's a good-sized building. Yes, it was in the late 90s, right?

Yes. 90s are probably the beginning of the 2000s, but yes. It was after they built it and opened it. Sentak.

Yes.

Well, it was the days of las.com and everyone printed money, so they were looking to build everything they could. So I think it was all part of that cycle of ups and downs.

Anyway, well, anyway.

Yes, going back to that, I hope the board of directors does something, not that there are no data centers, but something that makes governance and rules be and that reflect the values and what we want to be Grafton. I don't know if you can say that we can't have these things.

Well, maybe you want to see the meeting last night, on Monday night, about that. I'm not sure we want to talk about it until it's published, what we decided. We need it. anunciar una audiencia. Por razones poco claras.

¿Está en la grabación?

Sí.

Vale.

Mira la grabación. No, no hay secretos. Pero ha habido, diré esto, hasta ahora nadie nos ha abogado por permitir los centros de datos. Nadie nos ha dado, no sé, algunas razones por las que podrían ser útiles como generar ingresos considerables para la ciudad. Pero nadie nos ha dado ni una... Todo. Bien. Todo está ahí fuera. En Facebook. And everywhere, everywhere like that, which is not good. But there is an interesting point, there has been a lot of talk about a moratorium, to approve a moratorium like the one we did with marijuana and we analyzed it for residential use a long time ago. pero resulta que el uso residencial es un uso protegido no puedes simplemente decir que no en toda la ciudad para ciertas cosas los centros de datos no parecen estar incluidos en eso no no tienes que permitirlo en absoluto bueno creo que la ciudad lo siento el estado

Now he has withdrawn the subsidies, the financing and the taxes, I suppose they call it credits, right? So, and basically they have closed a large part or most of this development. So, he will not even go to the city because no one is going to come here anyway. Well, you know.

Well, I said that the planning board met with the select committee and that was a point that I mentioned. Well, that was part of the point that I have done so much. El estado, como los federales, son muy activos en esto. Sí. Y lo que hacemos con ellos es que simplemente se va a estropear. Por ejemplo, ahora mismo no tenemos agua. No podemos regar el césped. Así que no habrá agua de sobra durante un par de años. And we have something like 1.5 and something in the order of sonification. Let's say that the planning board decides, yes. Compatible with the area around it, which gives us a lot of decision power. So what I meant when we talked to the select board was that I thought we had almost no exposure in the short term, but there are too many people worried about that to accept it as good enough. Correct.

So if they wanted to do that, they would have to submit to the people's vote, right? What would they do? Put it in the ordinance.

Put it in the regulation.

That's what we did. And we're going to completely ban data centers. Yes.

That would have to be included in the zoning regulation. Right.

Because it requires a vote from the people and all that. Before, it was open.

And in the long term, I think one of the things that we have commented on in the planning board is that, you know, the state and federal regulations are in the process of change right now, especially in the So, yes, in the long run, if in the end it turns out that Graphene is interested in allowing data centers under certain conditions, for example, related to size, scale and other conditions. In the last instance, we could adapt the zoning regulation to allow data centers as far as we consider it makes sense for Grafton. Right now, as Bob said, there is no demand, no perceptible demand, no proposal, not even a debate about putting data centers of any kind in Grafton.

Bueno, creo que en el estado también, justo después del que pusieron en Markley, el centro de datos de Markley era ese LOL, cosas como... En las noticias de hoy, ¿no? Lo vi hoy.

Lo acabo de ver en algún lugar aquí. Sí, un problema. Están como reteniendo o haciendo algo en un viejo molino.

Hypothetically, a question for the TI committee is, and allow me to start, saying that the data centers, as they have been discussed, really have no connection. They certainly have no direct connection with any of the municipal TI systems and services. So I follow David.

That is to say,

Nuestro papel como comité de TI se centra en los sistemas y servicios de TI de la ciudad de Grafton. Y si hay alguna conexión entre eso y los centros de datos es que algunos de los servicios que contratamos para sus datos en incluso las aplicaciones podrían residir en algún centro de datos en algún lugar. De hecho, probablemente lo hay.

¿Está casi garantizado?

En algo que llamarías un centro de datos. The issue of the data centers and the sonification and if Graphion should allow the independent data centers to be built and at what scale, possibly, have nothing to do with our responsibility in the TI committee, but we are people from TI, but we know something about the data centers, how they work and what's in them, right?

I mean, I'm sure Badares is probably the best example, right? It's only, you know, software as a service and we would only have to guarantee, you know, the established controls, right? And that, you know, it has availability, right? We can't have shortcuts, all that kind of stuff. Wherever it is, that depends on the provider of services, it depends on them, yes.

So, our role in relation to the question of whether Grafton should allow data centers and, if so, under what regulations. Yes. We can offer an opinion beyond that.

Not so much. Yes. La parte de datos, pero está la parte de ingeniería. ¿Qué tengo? ¿Dos ingenieros eléctricos o no? ¿Sabes? ¿Deberías ingeniero eléctrico o ingeniero electrónico?

Eléctrico. Mi título es en ingeniería eléctrica e informática.

Pienso en los frenos de Prony. ¿Recuerdas alguna vez un freno de Prony?

No.

¿Tenías un aire acondicionado? ¿Tenías un laboratorio de maquinaria donde tenías motores y esas cosas?

Yo hice laboratorio de motores y rotores y no recuerdo mucho de lo que aprendí allí, excepto que nunca.

Los hicieron. Pero de todos modos, tiene que ver con los motores de potencia que hacen girar las cosas y cuánta potencia consumen y todo eso. Y siempre era divertido porque salpicaba agua al final cada vez y había que fregar el suelo. But the question is that understanding many of the electrical problems is not trivial. Who is going to pay what? This is as if he were looking at it. He would look at it and many of the costs of distribution, etc. Build, increase the capacity of distribution to carry the energy a data center, it is distributed, not only is it not charged to Grafton, but it is distributed to all the cities in this part of where it is, remember, it is more New England, in reality they have like three different names, so it extends, except Shrewsbury, which is a special case in which they are alone. But Si dijéramos que no. Por la energía o dijéramos que no. Entonces ellos fueron a Westward y construyeron y tuvieron los mismos costos de infraestructura. Nosotros seguiríamos compartiéndolos, pero no estaríamos pagando. Bueno, sin obtener el beneficio de los. Y estamos un poco escasos de agua. Muchos pueblos están un poco escasos de agua ahora mismo, pero nosotros estamos particularmente escasos de agua, al menos de agua limpia. Esa cosa más rara. En el norte, en el distrito de agua de Grafton. Bueno, no creo que South Grafton tenga un gran excedente de agua tampoco.

No. Both water districts are quite tight. Both water districts have at least one well that is out of line.

Right. Well, when the Fisherville dam is fixed, if it ever gets fixed, there will be some natural water, open water, that someone who had 20 acres or more right next door, who doesn't seem to be able to find a development plan,

¿Podría considerar? Ya sabes de lo que estoy hablando.

Donde se quemó el molino. Ese sitio tiene muchas complicaciones y problemas. Hay cosas malas en el suelo y esas cosas.

No quiero profundizar demasiado en el tema de todas las cosas de las que deberíamos preocuparnos con los centros de datos. But if public water supply is not their only option to obtain water, they could try to drill a well in their property. Good luck doing it. That will produce water to the volume they need. They could try to extract water from a nearby water mass.

Well, yes, you're talking Bob. In fact, the location of Wayman Gordon is quite close.

And Flint Pond is not very far from there.

But that doesn't seem to be the popular plan here. It seems that they are using refrigeration of closed circuit. So not much water is used, but it makes noise.

Now, the engineers understand about calcomanias.

And about OPEA.

That's another one.

I'm just saying that as long as they don't increase the level of sound beyond their limit of property, we're ready. Including emergency conditions. And that's it.

Editorial comment and apart it would seem that many of the most vocal defenders, you know, They are not from data centers, they are the ones who are on Facebook every day, every day. And where do they think that lives and lives that? In data centers. It's as if they were creating the beast that they don't want.

I don't have the impression that the IA part is the big consumer or the growing one.

Correct, that consumer is the impulsor of the expansion, and for the creation of these data centers on a large scale, the impulsor is all there.

I don't know. You know, all that flop data has to live in data centers.

No, but the only way it's doing something that consumes is when it's being built in models. Models of what? I'm not sure. But apparently that's Much more valuable. You know, having access to data to be able to build that is what Block really wants.

If that is my general impression of the greatest impulsor of these large-scale data centers, it is the construction of the models, you know.

Well, remember that Flock started with the commercial and Flux is used in All the stores like Home Depot, Lowe's, Stop and Shop, all the big condominium surfaces. So that's their website. All data. And they mix it all up and that's their surveillance mode. Do you want to watch and then remember during the Super Bowl? Because Amazon is the owner of Ring and they also wanted all the Ring data and they put all this together and put that lost dog ad, right?

Y todos dicen, de ahí es donde se metieron en problemas.

Y eso. Y todos dicen, bueno, espera un minuto. No sabía que podías iniciar sesión en mi cámara ring y en mi timbre y buscar al perro en el vecindario. Y esa es su visión. Quieren la vigilancia porque son empresas con fines de lucro. Así que, ¿cuánto más? No son filantropos. No hacen esto solo para, ya, ¿sabes? Poder venderlo. La misma razón por la que Google lo recopila. La misma razón por la que Facebook lo recopila. So the more they know about us, the more they gain.

So my general impression is that a good part of the popular opposition to the data centers is actually opposition to the AIA. But the data centers entail some real risks, some real problems that communities must face for. Energy, water, water consumption, water discharge for.

Illuminación, ruido, tráfico.

Ruido.

No tanto tráfico.

No hay tanta gente.

Todo el tráfico del centro de datos viaja por cables de fibra óptica.

Pero tienen que construirlo.

Yes, you know, there is the construction of the data center, which has a time limit. The operation that effectively has a time limit because the entire team becomes obsolete after a few years or can very well become obsolete. Then you worry about abandonment or dismantling. Desordenado, esa es la palabra. Sabía que empezaba con una D. También te preocupas por la contaminación del aire. Si el centro de datos tiene alguna generación de energía in situ. Y he estado leyendo un par de cosas que dicen que hay una especie de tendencia a añadir carga a la red eléctrica, a optar por la generación de energía 100% in situ mediante turbinas de gas propulsadas por motores a reacción, ruido y contaminación del aire. There are many, you know, there are some very real adverse effects of these data centers, apart from for whatever they are used for, right?

One of the things I've thought about, I haven't heard anyone say much, except me. Well, okay, you have the generators in the data center that usually are supposed to be there when the network falls. They can continue to work. It has reserve energy. But if it had a considerable generation capacity, that it would only use it from time to time, if it were to use it, it would be thinking if it could sell peak energy in the moments of the day when the electric companies need it. And well, that's another, you know,

That's a possibility.

That's why everyone, including Grafton, needs a good amount of time to study this.

And it's very deep, isn't it?

Poor Chris, our planner. He's receiving instructions. Receiving instructions to... ...work on it and investigate it.

Yes, well. Some of us, at least, I think we could talk much more about this topic if we wanted to. Yes, give it time with many ideas and opinions, but as far as the TI committee is concerned. There really is nothing specific. Right now we have to offer to basically advise the city on how to proceed in relation to the data centers.

Unless the city wants, you know, either the board of directors or whoever, to get in touch with us in quality. In quality. The consultant or something like that with questions and answers. Or something like what the boss and the cameras.

Yes, I mean, you know, our paper here is basically that we are people who know a lot of things about API that are included in the data centers. Well, I think we've probably exhausted that topic.

Propongo una moción.

Tenemos... Tenemos un minuto. Tenemos actas. No hay más cosas.

No tenemos actas. Siguiente punto del orden del día es revisar y... Intentando adelantarme. Las actas en la reunión de julio se distribuyeron a medida que avanzamos las pruebas. Propongo que se aprueben esas pruebas. Buena audiencia.

I propose that the session be adjourned.

Mr. Carroll, Mr. Hassinger, Mr. Rembrandt, and Mr. Robin, vote in favor. The motion was approved unanimously. The session is adjourned. Thank you very much for taking the time.