Economic Development Commission - Regular Meeting

[Music] Good evening everyone. This is the April 16th, 2025 um economic development commission meeting and we will start off by doing a full roll call with everyone who's here. I am Laura Dio, the chairperson. Justin Wood, Angela Hu. Okay. And we also have with us William Blake who is the assistant Yep. town administrator here for staff support. Yes, staff support. And not present uh this evening are Craig Dolphin, who is the representative from the select board. uh and Nicole Eierre who is on vacation. Um let's see. We are opening remarks. We will be discussing uh continuing discussion of the EDC spring events and we were also having a guest speaker Craig Blazel and I'm not sure if he's joining us by remote. I hadn't heard that was it was supposedly all set. Um so we'll give it a minute or two. Um Good blazer was the person that was in contact with. Was that Yes. Yeah. Get to you from the Wolfster business development. Yes. Double check. So that was supposed that was supposed to be all set and as far as I know when I spoke to Craig last week it was, but perhaps something

I've not heard anything to the contrary. So yeah. So we'll just give it we'll just give it a couple of minutes. Um uh you could always take your agenda out of order and yes start talking about the EDC spring event and if Craig walks in switch back to that. Okay terrific. So we will do that. Thank you. I appreciate that suggestion William. Um so in talking to Craig who was spearheading the spring event which is um the meet and greet for businesses at Reunion Tap and Table for Thursday May 15th from 5:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. We have um that was all set up. Everything's a go. Craig was just negotiating the menu and it you know it'll be as had talked about some orurves, cash bar, but drinks, things like that. As we had discussed at our prior March meeting, we will allow people to bring handouts, business cards. Um, if anybody wanted to speak for a minute, they could. And um, that's what that's what we'll be doing. William very graciously sent us the handouts for the um all the business owners, the Chamber of Commerce, TUS Business School. And what I would propose to do is that we divvy up those that list. Now we have the flyers. Can we send them out via email to the people to the business owners on the list? Yes. In a PDF form. Can we send those

out via email? Yep. So, I don't know. Do you mean all the businesses on the DBA list? Yes. So, I don't know if we have email addresses for all of them. I can double check that. I know we have email addresses for the 55 that are on the business directory on the website. Uh so we can always start there and I can contact the clerk's office again and sure we have contact information. Okay. Terrific. Because then what I would suggest that we do um is divvy up the list with people you know for people that we know personally and whatever we choose to do. Like if if somebody knows somebody like I could for example take uh pepperoni express call them go in say hey when extend the invitation there's a there are several people several businesses that didn't make our list um like Credence Web Services which is near uh it's in that same thing as bread guys breads uh go in there and invite, you know, invite them. It's a they are a consulting firm. Um, hand it out. Do that or or another thought as I'm thinking of that instead of I want to say cherrypicking. Okay? Because if you if we were to say, okay, I know this guy, I know that guy, I know this guy. So, this is North Craft and South Graph and this is up in line type of thing. I would almost say we to look at the business list and if you can and geographically say okay all right I am in North Grafton near the bread guy give me the give me the names of the businesses in that neighborhood we'll call it and I'll

canvas the neighborhood and if you're in self-drafted you can say okay let me canvas selfcrafted as opposed to you and I going like this to talk to the different businesses. I'm not saying the personal one-on-one isn't a good a good thing, but I'm just saying we may we may miss as opposed to canvasing or blanket covering the businesses. Yeah, I was having a similar thought. I was hoping to have time this week, but I didn't. But to try to take this list that the TA's office gave us that we were looking for and okay, well, how many are in North how many are in south and you this is a list of you know those in this area and try to get a divided up list of okay well here's you know 25 in this you know half mile radius here's 20 you know here's another 25 in this you radius and that way yeah we could do that that yeah the personal connections is still good you can say did you did so and so drop off to you I talk to someone that you know a business owner often you can do that Right. Yeah. Well, we can Well, what we should do then, what I would propose to do, and we've got two people who are not here. Mhm. Um, is amongst ourselves look at the list. We've got, you've got what, 55 people where you say you have emails for them? Oh, yeah. We have roughly 55 listings on the website for the business directory that people can request to be added to. And in that, we ask for email addresses. Okay. So, we can send those out and we won't necessarily have to canvas them. Yeah. Then what's left we can we can divvy up amongst ourselves and maybe we can get on uh

line or do a you know a zoom meeting or just email amongst ourselves to divvy it up as you say. Yeah. By geographic region. Angela, what do you think of that? I think that that's a great idea, Laura. Okay. Yeah, I think Sean thought it up. It's not my idea. Yeah. No, that's that's fine. And I mean, where we don't have the names like somebody like my friend Anita Was, you know, of Credence Web Services. I've told her about it. So, that's, you know, that's one thing. And then, do we have how recent, William, are is the list? So, for example, where um the post office pub is there, that new business that used to be occupied, the storefront that used to be occupied by Erikson's Hardware, which is now the the Lego store. The Lego store. Are they on there? They call Works, I think. Yes. Yeah. [Music] Brick Works is not on the list that I had. So, the initial list I got was from late February in the clerk's office. Okay. So, who's ever in that would that would be North that would be North Grafton. There's a lot in North Grafton. [Music] Um, so The only comment I have for trying to figure out who's taking what and where where we're going is I would avoid a Zoom meeting because that has a higher chance of being an open meeting issue. Okay. But I think coordinating where we're going via email as a group, I think as long as we stick to just a coordination, Yeah. there's no to me

there's no open meeting issue. No, we're not. We're not discussing anything really. We're just Yeah, we're just coordinating. Yeah, we're just coordinating. Yeah. I just got a text that Craig Blaze was up at the municipal center and is on his way down, so I'm going to step out and flag them. Oh, okay. Thank you. Nice. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. So, that works. We're not to your point, we're not discussing. We're just saying, "Hey, I'm going to hit these 10 businesses." Yeah. And and then you might say, "Well, wait a minute. What about the new guy, the brick works, you know, the Lego people?" Yeah, I you know just that's that's all I think we just we're not voting on it. We're just saying who's going where. the open meeting comes into play like if we discuss anything that's you know related to our business in general and that's why I think zoom is a little bit riskier because there's in the worst case we have paper trail for doing emails and well how if he can I don't want to say hot he list he messages us in email lists and we can look at the list and say Okay, I can hit this, this, and this. And via email, we can I can say, okay, I can hit these these businesses. You're going to go through the list and say, "Oh, well, this guy's right down, you know, my neighborhood." You know, if we do it that way. Yeah. And that way they once once you once you go through the list if I'm replying to all and I've highlighted all the ones by the time we finish our conversation or our messages if all the all the names of the businesses are highlighted then we know they're all covered. Yes. And yeah I don't have any I don't have any concern on that. Yeah. Hello. Hi Greg. How are you? Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Yep. Nice to meet you. We appreciate it. Hi, Craig Blaze. Justin Wood. Justin. Craig Blaze. That I'm Laura Dio, by the way.

We have one of our members on Zoom in. Oh, okay. And Angela Hu. Okay, great. Thanks. Great. So, um, we were just discussing a, um, our spring event, uh, meet and greet that we're having on May 15th at the reunion tap and table. Oh, great. So, you might, um, be interested in coming to that, seeing folks, but um, so, but we'll table that for right now because I know we had you down as the first speaker. I'm sorry for any confusion. Yeah, I was I was telling I was at two different conference. I was told to go to conference room F. Well, yes. And what happened was we only found we only found out um sort of late in the game that conference room F was not going to be available because of ongoing construction. Yeah. Looks like so I thought somebody would have I thought somebody would have I thought Craig would have told he told he did. He told me to go to A. So I went to room A and I sat in the back and then the town manager got up and said, "I think you're supposed to be down at the BC TV. I said, "Where is that?" So anyway, the old This is the old Grand Police. Yeah. Police station. Anyway, so tell us about Sure. what what you're doing and how we might be able to work together. And so I guess first off, have any of you ever heard of the Worcester Business Development Corporation? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So you're familiar that we did we were the developer of Scent Park. Y um all phases, all three phases. Cent east and then Sent Park North up at the Allen Farm um states. And we um we sort of drove many many years ago, we drove the issue of Scent Park Boulevard um because we needed better access uh in order to develop the park and we we uh essentially rode the coattails of the commuter rail station to say we need to

have better access and better access will mean we'll be able to develop um develop the park. So, um, obviously all three phases, we've purchased it all from the Commonwealth, um, and it got developed and, you know, all of that. We, um, the WBDC has been around, uh, we're in our 60th year, believe it or not. We were formed in 1965 by an act of the legislature. Um, and we have our own, we're we're private real estate development company, but we're a nonprofit. Um, and I like to say that we sit between the private sector and the public sector. Um the public sector likes us because we're nonprofit. The private sector likes us because we're not the public sector. Um and so we sit right in the middle and what we try to do is take on difficult projects or projects that are stalled or projects that are important to a community um within Worcester County. Uh we try to take those projects on and bring in a ve in uh very um varying ways. Um, we keep it very open and nimble because in real estate you've got to figure out ways to be in compliance with grants and be compliance with what a real estate developer needs in terms of lending and all of that guarantees. Um, so we have multiple models where in some instances we own the development, we own we take title to the property. Um, in other instances, we're a development partner where we bring certain resources to the deal. Um, in some instances, we acquire the property, clean it up, and ground lease the property because the developer does not want to take the risk of the environmental uh contamination that's on the property. So, we've kept that and over the last 60 years have used those models in very various ways um in order to make the project work. But our number one uh priority is that we only take on

the projects that a community wants to do. We're no good if we're in fighting with the community uh because we need the community to go out and help us get grants, help us get a loan guarantee for mass development or whatever whatever it is, whatever the the resource is. And so we tr we we we try to operate that way. And for us, it's not about profit. It's about job creation and tax base expansion. So if a private developer comes in and because of our work makes a gazillion dollars and creates a lot of jobs and expands, that's okay. Um we get we get evaluated by our board and judged on the fact that we've created jobs and expanded the tax base in the region. So that gives you a little bit of a sort of a history and I can go into some examples like you're familiar with scent. Uh in that instance we acquired the property from DCAM from the Commonwealth. we figured out a way um to get a release of that property um so that we could do essentially at that time it was the State Street Bank deal um on the data center which was very important to the to the development and we were able to essentially knock off each individual parcel and get those re redeveloped. of course always working, you know, with in close parks with the town, with the town of Shbury, with the town of Grafton. Um, in in Worcester, for example, um, we took on the Hanover Theater. That was a much different model. Um, the Hanover Theater, we acted, they needed a developer, uh, to take on, and we needed to set up a uh, 501c3 nonprofit organization that could accept the property from um, from the owner. And at the time it was Viacom owned the property. National Amusement owned the property. Uh and we negotiated with the Redstones um to transfer the property to a a nonprofit and it had to

be in the right ownership structure because we were doing a new market tax deal. Um and so we led the effort on putting all the f the complicated financial pieces together in the capital stack. We raised $30 million and the city wanted to bring the old uh theater back uh to a performing arts theater and we served all the way through that as the developer um we took a retainer fee out of the financing. That's how we were paid to provide that service. And then in that instance at the very end of the deal um we gave the entire fee back and donated it into um the Hanover Theater. essentially bought a a loge box and made a substantial contribution back into the theater because they needed to raise more money uh in order to make the whole entire deal work. So in that instance, we didn't create a lot of jobs, but it was revitalization of a critical area in Worcester at the time and bringing all the people. We then got involved um in um in the canal district uh where there was um a factory that had been abandoned for 10 years and the roof was caving in. It was a brownfield site. They hadn't done anything there in 10 years. Um and it was really starting to become a real problem for that area of the city. We got the 10 uh we got the 10 colleges together along with Worcester Academy um and we formed a group. they were looking um for ice time for their hockey programs. So, we thought, wow, this would be great if we could bring all of the colleges together. They could all they didn't have uh the land that was needed on their individual campuses, nor did they want to expend money to build the hockey rink, but there was a need for ice time for the youth hockey organizations and the revitalization of that area. So, we pulled all that together. We we got them all to contribute. Um we purchased the property for a dollar. um from the previous owner and we essentially traded

indemnification um of the site uh and we got involved in breaking the chain of liability and we acquired the property for a dollar. They wrote us a check for $400,000 and got out of it. They were 100% out of the deal. Um and then we took it from there. We raised $3.8 million. We tore the factory down, cleaned up all the property. And then in that instance, the developer, uh, Rucker Investments, Cliff Rucker, who had just brought the railers to Worcester, uh, needed a place to train. They weren't going to train at the the DCU center. So, he figured out that he would be an anchor tenant. Um, and he didn't want to own the land because he didn't want to take the risk of the brownfields. So, we ground leased the property. So, today we own the rink uh, under a ground lease. He developed it. Um, He has tenants, he has all the colleges, he has Worester Academy, he has all the and it's doing very very well. And the the railers train there, they have public skating and they have 38,000 square feet of retail uh space at the site. So I bring those examples up because they're all different models in which the way we operate. Um I know that Craig was interested in u you know sort of picking my brain about TUS. We have been involved um in the park. We offer it three times. uh to partner with them. Um early on um at Cent Park, we said, "Why don't we put it all together um and we'll split the proceeds 5050." So, we had just acquired the property from DAM. They were under the same complicated ground lease that we were under and we offered uh to go back to the Commonwealth and say, "Why don't you just release all of us from the ground lease requirement?" Um and then we'll do this phases because scent was ready to go. The town had done a great job with putting the roads and the water and the infrastructure. Let's get that done.

We'll share in the proceeds and then we'll move over to the next piece and we'll put all the roads in. We'll get the right grants. We'll put all that together and then we'll just keep going. We we'll just keep going. For whatever reason they passed on that, they didn't want to do that. Um we went back again and tried it. It seems like every time the administration changes there's like a rethinking that maybe you know it would be a good idea to do a partnership. So I explained that all um that we would still be open um if they were interested. We're done with all three phases of scent. Um the last piece I believe was sold off at Cent Park North at Allen Farm. Um and we were involved with that because we brought Wooi um Biologics who were doing that in Worcester. they needed a warehouse space um there. Um so we referred them to Cent Park North. So um so that any type of way that we can you know be helpful to the commission, be helpful to the town. Um and it doesn't have to be that project, but if there are other, you know, projects that uh are stuck or stalled or need some some help, there might be some way, you know, in which we could uh we could lend a hand and help. Were you involved in the the mill Fisherville mill in South? Yes. A little bit different um from the WBDC. Um at the time I was working for the city of Worcester um in the development office and we created an organization called the central mass economic development authorities meet up which you might be aware of. Um when we got that legislation through um we identified the legislature only allowed us to do three projects. Um they didn't want the authority to go off and get in trouble essentially and we really didn't have a staff. We were kind of piecing it together. So the as I recall this is a long time ago. tap in my memory, but as

I recall, the three projects were the mass truck stop um in Auburn. Um they were involved uh the courtyard by Marriott in Worcester on Prescott Street that hadn't been built. It was a Parker manufacturing property that was contaminated. Um and the Fisherville No. Um we we got asked to be involved um in um in Auburn um and that got done. The truck stop was closed and it all got redeveloped and today it's a retail redevelopment. We were asked, we were obviously very interested in being involved in Worcester and we um we we we had Procon at the time that was interested in building the hotel and we fig we took title um to the property and we brought resources to it. We cleaned up the property and then we flipped it um to Procon and they built the Goyad by Marriott um at Gway Park uh in Worcester. We were not asked to be part of the Fisherville bill for whatever reason. um the organization said that they were going to do it on their own. Um and so we were we were not we were not asked to be part of that and uh then the fire happened that the fire and so that was sort of the end of our involvement with that but I believe it it's still under the central mass economic I don't know I don't know where title rest they were going to sell it and I kind of lost track as to where where it was but yes in the very beginning I was I was involved in that. Yeah. So, I'm sure Craig has sort of filled you in that we're trying to jumpstart things here. Sure. In Grafton, of course, as everyone knows, you know, Grafton has some unique um challenges because we're not Shrewsbury, right, or Westboro. We don't have Route 9 running through it. So, um

most of our tax base comes from private residential things and everybody's seeing that go up up and away. Yeah. And so the citizens, you know, say, "Well, what is the what is the EDC doing?" Right? So, we're looking for actively looking for ways to jumpstart that and, you know, um, anything we can do to work together, you know, piggy back off ideas you might have. Sure. Give us, you know, ideas. Um in the past we did have um a meet and greet uh a year ago January we also the prior year had a business lunchon over at TUS where we invited prospective I think I was at that yes you probably were Senator Mike Moore was there um Dave Moradian um Dean I think the at the time so but you know again A lot of the things for whatever reason have not gelled or come together and I would say you know TUS can speak for themselves but yes the the deal structure that they have if that is still in place um was the same deal structure that my predecessors accepted at at scent one um which was this complicated ground lease payment to the the way it was bid. And when we we tried to work under that and we did a whole analysis, this is the WBDC did a whole analysis of if we did everything perfect and we sold all the parcels under that formula, we'd lose like $225,000. So why would we do that? Why would we go through that whole and the Commonwealth would got all the money? They would essentially get all the money. Um so we recognized that early on

and we knew that that formula while it all sounded good to DAM when they set it up and it did sounded good to the WBDC because you didn't have to put any money up front. Mhm. So what we did is we said to the Commonwealth, why don't you take less because you don't have to wait um getting the money sooner uh but less money sooner. the cost of money. It it would be in your best interest to just get bought out and give us the release and let us take the risk and go forward and do do what we and then we don't have this ground lease hovering over our where the middle person has to make money. You have to pay the commonwealth money and then the develop so it just for our market it it it doesn't work. So, um, we said we had the State Street Bank deal pending and we we had got an offer and we said, "Okay, here's what we'll do is let us close on that deal and then you we'll pay you X amount of dollars, proceeds from that deal and then we're out. You're out. you're you release us from everything and we'll go off and develop the and then we met with Verilon and we met with if you remember Bernie no and we did that deal and then we did the IDEX deal and then we so uh primary colors so we were left to just do do a thing and that worked out very well for us. It worked out good. We we were released, the Commonwealth was paid and we sold the parcels and we had full control over over the parcels, which is key, you know, to getting them redeveloped fast. And we knew the town wanted to get, you know, they wanted to get the tax revenue and get get the jobs and all of that. So, um, that should be looked at um because that's a, you know, the infrastructure is in over there and I think it it could be um it could be it could be a nice development and and the access from Route 20 is now there. As you know, the other thing that comes

to mind to me is several years back, like four or five years back, I think it was now, the Michael Gordon was selling the property right in front of them. Yes. Which someone did buy, they went through a long and arduous permitting process, which didn't involve a lot of happy res neighbors. Okay. But they did it they designed a big warehouse on spec. And of course since they've got the permit passed there was a lawsuit which say they developers won and then there on that process but there was also a downturn in profitability of spec warehousing. Sure. Yeah. So the that comes to mind as something that to my last I had heard the owners of the land had reapproached Robin Gordon to say to ask them if they wanted to buy it back. They didn't. Right. And then you so they're sitting on land that is in theory developable. Yeah. It may not be profitable to develop as they permanent it, but that I could imagine there being something else that could be developed there. Sure. That would be beneficial. I would put that in your column of inventory to work on. Absolutely. The issue there, okay, with that when that went around the first time was the lack of transparency. in with the process. The lawyers came in, they didn't say who they were working for the process. It was it was going to be a warehouse, you know, 24 by7. Yeah. Who was, you know, the state would have to come in and help support the the road. Of course, the residents, many of whom were new residents, were saying, "Well, we didn't know that this has been Yeah. you know, zoned for industrial." So, they filed the lawsuit. Sure. And it brought it to us as a spec warehouse, which the planning board did worked really hard, you know, on the planning board, just be clear, but

worked really hard to narrow the scope of what we actually put in our decision to make sure that wasn't going to be a last mile facility. the traffic, you know, aligned with what they actually told us because it was spec. They didn't have a they didn't have a client. They told us, you know, they might have had one ready, but they don't know. But the they never told us. They don't necessarily have to. But that's the again, the residents weren't happy with it. But that's sitting there. The permit, I believe, is still valid due to the most recent the very recently passed state, you know, state law that extended permits by two years. So, I think it's still valid, but I'm not 100% sure. Well, that I would just say from a I don't know the details of the impacts on the residential, but the proximity obviously to the mass turnpike to Route 20. Um, you know, that's I've always looked at that area as a hurdle on the brown fields, but if that's not I don't know what the conditions are for the front part of of the piece. Obviously, yeah, there's substantial environmental having dealt with the ballpark in Worcester and it didn't help it didn't help at the time that there was a fire at the Wyman and Gordon uh plant in the back towards Was it there or was it the warehouse right across the town line of Milbury? Is it the one you're referring to? The the most recent fire that I remember that was anything more than just like a fire extinguisher could have put out was at the warehouse that which was in line. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing uh that made that got people riled up totally separate issue was the feedback earth plant. Um and that's been resolved. They're out of business. But people wonder what else is going to come in. So there's a there's a

heightened sensitivity. The town wants business to come in, but you want clean business, maybe bio, life sciences. Um, not a good time to be in that. Yes, I know. Tech warehouse, you tech business, you know, building wouldn't be bad for this for this general area of Massachusetts. Yeah. You know, but again, that's also on the downturn as far as physical office locations for tech. Yes. We're trying to market uh the Norton property. I don't if you've read about that, the Green Tech Park. We're we're trying to market that to advanced manufacturing and it's going to take a while. It's we you know, we've been told be patient. Um obviously, you know, green technologies right now is not where the federal government's going. So, a lot of people are just sitting back on the sidelines right now. Fortunately, we've structured that deal where we can be patient and wait a little while um for that. But if you think for those of you who who know that was the place where all the jobs were. Norton company a heel machine employed 7,000 people on that property. So Worcester doesn't have many opportunities left to create jobs like that. Um so we're going to hold out as long as we can. We got plenty of work to do. We're tearing down all the buildings. We're putting all the roads in. We're cleaning up the property. We're doing all that. We're going to hold out. But it's that's easy to say when you acquire it for a dollar and you don't have mortgage on the property and you're not carrying you know. So, um but what what was the in terms of did you look at the feedback um from the in terms of the transparency of the residents like was there comments about what they would like to see there um in that parcel? It was more reactionary I think. Wide range. Some of that came from for like the last three years before this came before the

planning board. It was basically a vacant lot not used for anything except for maybe once a year a pet stone the pet rock and then for like 10 15 years before that it was used by you know local soccer and athletic groups. It's you know geese a field that has a lot of geese poop in it but it's basically it's been used for that. Yeah, you know and but otherwise just in a completely empty you occasionally use like open space thing. And was that ever part of their operation way back? I don't think they ever had any business front lawn. Yeah. So it was it was a very nice bucolic thing and they always had nice plantings there. So yes. Yep. So, so people would have when they bought their homes, whether it be new residents or long-term residents, it would have been thought of as a space because of course not many people unless they are in this kind of environment think about what is this zoned as next door to me, right? Yeah. But it has great for your purposes economic. It just you kill for access like that to the turnpike. Yes. Exactly. You really Yes, you really do. If you can figure out a way be patient. Um, you can get the right, you know, get the right mix there. Like we are resisting warehouse. Um, we're we're resisting warehouse last mile all that. We're not we've gotten a lot of offers because we're right on 190. Yeah. We're right there. And um just said no. We we actually had a you might know about we had a box manufacturer that wanted to build a 200,000 square foot plant there. And good for them. It's all automated. 21 jobs. So, I'm going to take up 200,000 square feet of property, create 21 jobs. It's a great thing to have a it would be a great taxpayer and all that, but you know, that's not, you know, so Worcester would have a different view in terms of high density employment where you might not have that. Um, you might take

something like that, you know, where it had a very low impact, although a lot of trucks, you know, for for a box manufacturer. And then we we've had a couple of setbacks because as you go up the street there, we've had a couple of the smaller shopping plazas where there have been issues. There were fires and things like that and you know, so a couple of the what was it? Pub 22 there moved out and I think where are they now? Are they in Worcester? No, I think he's I don't know. I don't know. He moved an Indian restaurant but there you know. But some of those things we lost some businesses there. um right near Site Park, 8 Pine Street has been sitting in like a they did a demol a demolition process to meet their per for the permit. It's going to be housing apartments kind of thing for the most part. There was an separate building that was part of their phase two that had potential for shops, you know, but at the train station, this is across street from the train station. Yeah. We put a proposal in to buy that property from the state. Yeah. way back a long long time. But that was a complicated Yeah. So it was a federal lease on the property. The state owned the property. It was Yeah. Very complicated. Very complicated. So that So I assume I was going to bring that up. So I assumed that that all got straightened out and cleared up and a private person a private developer owns that. Um, last I knew it was GSX that had that had done the initial purchase and would came to planning board to get the permitting to do that housing development and everything. I don't know offh hand if GSX has since sold it or handed off development to another company. Yep. They haven't sold it. I think that they're u hoping to break ground sometime this summer. Yeah, I I have heard a few anecdotal comments that might suggest that they're breaking ground with a

maybe with a different company doing the actual work but I don't want to speak out of internal what I don't know for sure but yeah and then Claremont right who bought um the other on the other side yes of those is there any plans for that to proceed that was I I think permitted but I haven't heard that they've actually have any code permits they were get waiting for some MBTA impact uh funding to connect. This is what I heard to connect the um property to the rail station. Yeah, that was in their proposal to the planning board and they I I have not heard they pulled any premise building department or anything as far as even demolition. I would just tell you for advice, they're the real deal. They um they own the AC Marriott in downtown Worester and um they're looking to do some more stuff and they're well capitalized and they're they're a good developer. If that's what I think it is. I believe our town planner just got a grant to connect the property. I think he did she did to connect the property to referring to the manager told me. Yeah, the town manager told me that. So, yeah, I believe so. It's MBTA impact funding, I think. So, $1.5 million to connect. So, hopefully that's going forward. Yeah, I'm I'm anticipating within the next probably full year they'll have pulled at least you know a permit or two to to make progress on that. I'll just tell you um you know I held out there for a long we own that property and I held out for a long long time. Um and you probably know this but um there is a pile of ledge there that is substantial. Um we could only fit a 20,000 square foot building on that. We tried and tried and tried and if you talk to anybody in the development world, no one builds a very rarely do they build a 20,000 square foot building in an industrial park. It's just you'd go lease that space. You

just go lease that space. And the site conditions were so bad that finally it just sort of I don't want to say gave up, but just said if the town's okay with putting housing because of the rail and transit oriented development and all that, let it go because otherwise it'll just sit there. Yeah. There'll be a lot of blasting going on there. Order primary colors wasn't too happy with with the blasting statement, but from what we worked on work together. And then I I just have another question. Um is part of the UPS um facility is it is it most of that in Grafton and some in Shbury or I think it's like 7030 right closer to 6040 as far as building Yeah. goes and probably 7030 when you consider actual land developed land space. Well, that would be a big tax revenue and don't say too loud in Shbury, but you don't get the impacts because the trucks all go up to Shbury. We do have a pretty substantial impact on the intersection right closest to the train station that but we also have impacts there due to other developments. But the UPS did agree to as part of in the peritting process give the town $750,000 to develop and implement an actual a lighting system at that intersection of Route 30. Route 30 and Pine. Yes. I don't think they're going to go that way though. Don't you think they're going to go out to 20? The tractor trailers 20 almost guaranteed. There is last mile going on at that UPS facility. Oh, I see. So yeah, there's going to be some coming this way. But that's great tax. Yes. Yes. And we need all we can. Boy, they are. They're moving. Huh. I drove by there. They're almost done with their clearing. Yeah. The site work that's going on there is Evan and I drove by three weeks ago, I

think. And from then to now, they're they were halfway done to completely done. Pretty much. They're great. They're looking in the next from what Fiona told us on Monday looking in the next month I think she said to actually start doing some of the site development work not just the foundation. Yeah. Yeah. So, we're looking we're looking for something to jumpstart, you know, be great if we could have a polar park, but that's a Yeah. That's a you know, um the other site that comes to mind, and I don't know if you've had discussions, but it's probably worth a meeting discussion is um so State Street Bank has a second parcel in Sent Park. A lot of people don't know that they bought the first parcel on the right um when you come up Centennial Drive. Yes. And they never built they were supposed to build the 56 foot facility there. Um it was a it's a back office operation. Again, low impact. Um but good tax revenue to the to the community. Um things changed after 911. Um and that's when we were in the middle of all that with them. So that got put on hold. Um but of course that was 25 years ago. 2008. I'm sorry. The banking 2008 as well. A lot of changes have happened. So I don't know if State Street would ever you know sell that or you know but it would be a good opportunity for redevelopment. And now that the road when we did that scent boulevard was not in. So now you could reverse that site have it on Cent Boulevard and u there's a lot of options there and it's a pretty nice site. It's a it's a good site. And then there's another site right 6A which is adjacent across the street from Primary Colors. Oh yes. And

that was there was a grow facility that was proposed there for a while and Oh yes. I don't know whatever happened but that's a that's still a good that's a nice site at the end of Millennial. Yeah. I know there is somebody that I don't remember if they act development but was basically wrapping primary colors like around the side of them for they were looking for building a a like industrial use building, they're using only like about 30% of it. They're going to lease out the other amount to some future tenant. And then the intent of the owner of that was that his business could grow into the space over time, but I don't remember if they built that out yet or not. That was Are you talking at primary colors? Literally next to the primary colors. Yeah. when you go up the drive to the right. Yeah, there's a whole parcel there. Yeah, it was the address to that was in the culite for what I was thinking of. Yeah. So, there's still a couple of opportunities at Sent to be redeveloped. Interesting. Angela, did you have anything you'd like to ask or add? Thank you, Laura. Um, I've just been taking notes through this and it's fascinating to hear about the opportunities that we have within town. So, it's great to be able to have Craig here tonight to share his experience and his insights with us. Yeah. Thank you. I'd like to find a way, quite frankly, for us to be able to, you know, Yeah. Partner and piggy bank off of that and you know in really well practical you know um the reason why we kept going back to TUS is because

we brought the water there and we put the infrastructure in um we put the access in and all that's you know I believe they had brought it all the way through the MEPA approval process so they have all the state permits in place. It's what do you want to do with this? Like do you want it university related or do you want to let it go and and help the town and just Well, that's been get it developed. That's been the big conundrum. And Carl Moyes, who's another member who is Oh, I know. Yeah. who's not here tonight. I mean, um he was the chairperson here. Yep. Prior to myself, um he knew a lot about that and you know, it's equitable, you know, because Grafton does not profit nearly as much as it could or it should from the presence of tufts. That's just I'm not I'm not sure it's just like Yeah, I'm not editorializing. It's just it's just a fact. Yeah. And given the fact that we are not Westboro or Shrewsbury on a Route 9 or directly on a route 30 or Route 20 that that presents some challenges and we are you know we have some very vital thriving small businesses here. But the bigger challenge is that we have a lot of single family McMansions being built. Yeah. That is that are raising of course. Yeah. The property taxes. Sure. And that becomes a challenge. You have a single rate. Do you have a split rate or a single rate? Single rate. Single rate.

What is it like $16? I think it's$1541 this year. 1541. 1541 just so you know is a tiff in Worcester. So that's really good that you you know Dan Morgado if you remember Dan Morgado used to say to me all the time no tiffs in Shbury we already have a tiff we have a $14 tax rate and he's right he's right we have cheaper power than anybody else Shrewsbury Shrewsbury has its own power. That's what I'm saying we have cheaper power than national grid um 1394 Yeah. He was when I was running around when I was 14. So So they they did some good. But I just think like um I think about like Gateway Park, right? Um so Gateway Park was a contaminated site right off of 290 and we partnered with WPI and WPI helped us land seams there for example and that now pay WPI has some um programs there. They take some of the space, but they leased the rest of the space to private companies. They have to pay taxes. There's no, they're not exempt because WPI owns it. So, that model, you know, partnering with like I'm sure in some industry, um, people want to be located near the veterary school and so we should try to crack that, you know, like and obviously they have to be cooperative if they're not, you know, they hold the card. Um, but again, that's worth a I know that's the that's the conundrum. How do you move off the dime? Yeah. Is there is there any way, you know? Yeah. What's their interest? Like, you know, Idex, for example, um Idex was located on TU's campus and they came to me and said, "Would you build a building for IDEX?" And I was like, "What? Why do you want to give up Idex? They're on your campus." and they for whatever reason the way they what they were doing there

what they were programming there um they didn't want a veterary testing facility to this day I'm still perplexed so I said I'll take so we found a developer and we built the building on the corner um and we it was very easy to do that deal because they had the tenant they had a triple credit rated tenant with IDEX and they were taking half the building So easy deal to get done. That was a easy deal to get done. And I I was always like I guess they maybe they thought well it's right here. It's not like it's going far away. It's just going across the street and then it freed up space on the campus and I don't know what they ended up doing backfilling that space. Um but companies like that want to be there, you know, they want to be in their house. So can we find more Idexes for example for the other property which would help the town? And then of course there was a vision of build a 100,000 square foot you know facility across from the you know where the state hospital was and but you need 30% tenency to buy in before you can even break ground. Does the lab pay taxes the biohazard lab? I haven't heard that they don't but I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. So you know it's It's it's certainly a challenge and we're we're trying to do everything we can to move forward, you know, and especially and look, let's face it, we're in very volatile, challenging economic times. So, we want all the help that we can get. So, I would love it to continue the conversation. Yeah. and if you can if you know attend our meet and greet and maybe you know Sure. So when what

when is that? It's May it's um Thursday May 15th between um 5:30 to 8:00 p.m. and it's going to be at uh Reunion Tap and where where is that? It's right on uh street in grafting. engrafted. Oh, it's almost right next to where I was talking about the warehouse near Word on that street. Yeah, I know where it is. Yeah, I forgot what it was called before. Okay. Yeah. So, we're going to have a lot of businesses there. When we did the first one in January of 2024 when it was late January and it was cold, we had a lot we had a good turnout. I'd say we had, you know, and just describe what the So, who gets invited to that? What's the the the Grafton businesses? Okay. Uh, you know, many of the people there, we we invited, um, Dave Moradian, we'll invite this time around Senator Mike Moore, Jim McGovern. Yep. Folks like that. Um, and you know, the idea is to get people talking and Yep. exchanging ideas. Well, I have a great relationship with all three of them. Well, hopefully hopefully hopefully they'll all come. Um I'm tasked with um reaching out to So all you have to do is tell him he's going right and moreover I'll be there. No. Yeah. McGovern has been very busy in Washington. He's been helping just so you know he's been helping us with he's he's really done an incredible job of Wooi. Wei biologics they um this a3 $300 million facility being built in Worcester. It's almost done. Is that excuse me on Belmont Street? Yes. Um the new one was called the reactory. Yeah. That's development. So we put all we bought the land from the comm and we put the road in and did all the permits,

tore all the old state hospital buildings down and we recruited this company with a lot of work Karen Pledo and really helped us a lot. Um they made um we went through a very competitive process. We were going head-to-head with Pennsylvania. This was either going to go outside of Philadelphia or it was going to come to Massachusetts. And we convinced Karen did a great job and Jim McGovern did a great job of convincing the Commonwealth that the Massachusetts proposal was the Worcester proposal. And once you get that, now it's just you got to compete with Pennsylvania. So, uh we put our best foot forward. Um and we won. Um, and we got it. Um, they borrowed the money and they started substantial construction. Everything was going great. And then Congress got involved in this whole anti-China movement and they put them on a list. Um, and it was a company that was that's on the list is Wooi Attek, which is not Wooie Biologics and because it's a city in China, Wooi named after that. And so um they got put on this list and it was about selling secrets of genome secrets. They don't even do genomics at Wooshi Biologics. They they manufacture proteins for cancer drugs. So here we are going to manufacture in Western Massachusetts proteins for cancer drugs. They get put on this list that anybody who does business with them cannot receive any federal NIH money. So that's it. They're black ballalled and they're done. uh the project is put on hold the tour and it's not the right company. So we had to get them off the list and try to convince the entities. Yeah. And Jim McGovern did a phenomenal job of using his clout um to essentially get them off the list and um he got them off and he's monitored it and he's kept it and now

the time the time was on our side because the Department of Defense had finished their analysis and determined that Wooi biologics did not belong on the list. So now the Department of Defense has come out with the list, not Congress. The Department of Defense has come out and Wooi's not on it. So it's a victory. Construction's back going. We're going to get that done. 300 300 jobs. Um it's just an incredible facility. What they're going to be doing there is really important. So he he's just done a great job and now he's been on the hunt to help us. Um essentially we've been awarded $6.4 million in federal money for the seno bond project and we've been told by the EPA by EDA don't you know reimbursement is not guaranteed so I would borrow the money and is doing we're doing the work and then we're going to seek reimbursement from the grants and we're told that might be on hold they might not release the money and all this stuff so so he's helping us through that whole process with the grants are right now a Oh, it's it's the lottery, you know, it's it's I mean what's going on with NIH and the NSF even, you know, I have friends there and you know, it it is really tough and here in Grafton again, we have some very distinct and somewhat unique challenges where you know people want quality of life, they want the open spaces, they want this, but they also want you know business to come in And then they want the right kind of business. And we're trying to build we're trying to build manufacturing space. And we've been at it for nine and a half years. So we're not going to just turn the switch on and manufacturing is going to pop up all over this. We don't have the right power. We don't have the right water. We don't have the right sewer. All that has

to be brought back and updated and it takes a long 10 years. it takes, you know, to go through that kind of manufacturing is also a full supply chain issue. It's not, you can't just build and say, "Hey, we're going to make cell phones now." Right. That's right. That's exactly right. So, I don't buy this, you know, we're just going to do tariffs and then manufacturing is going to be all over the United States. It's just it's not that easy. No. And we have we have our own infra, you know, infrastructure problems. Sure. issues here in Grafton, you know, water, sewer, you know, the usual, you know, things. So, anyway, we need help. We're looking for help, but you know, we're raring to go. I mean, this I I tell you, one of the great things about Grafton is that this town always comes together and they support each other. When Truth Organic Spa had that electrical fire, I mean the town really came out and just came together. Yeah. With, you know, within hours after the thing to, you know, start a GoFundMe to keep uh the proprie, you know, funded so that she could keep her staff going. Then somebody else came up and said, "Hey, you could use my space because we moved here and they're breaking, you know, they're breaking." We experienced it as well. When we were doing scent park, and again, I'm going back in the dark ages, but when we were doing scent park, we had done this deal with Verilon, who um it's a draw tower and they make ceramic, you know, the last mile or whatever for that industry. and they were putting a 75 foot draw tower in the building at the end of Centennial Drive and everything was going fine. And then when they figured out on the design of the sprinkler system for the draw tower,

there wasn't enough pressure. There wasn't enough pressure in the in the water line. So, of course, it's a private water uh company. So, I had to go down and the town of Grafting couldn't have been more supportive of coming together. And we figured out, we worked with the water department and we worked with the sewer department, but we figured out how to get the right um state money and we made it a big priority and we essentially cleaned out the lines in Westboro Road. You know, it was a $ 1.5 million project, but the developer, the the end user of had already bought the property and were already far along. They were way into this construction contracts that been signed. they were deep into it and they were nervous. They were like, "Well, what if we don't get this, you know, like we're we're into this big um and uh we got to get this done and we're on a time frame and all this." The town really came together. We got the grant. The work got done. The town moved it really quick through the process. We worked closely with the Grafton water district is called the Grafton. They was super Matt Pearson. He was he was great. He was really helpful. But the town really rallied around us. We came presented the problem we said this is a problem we need to help and everybody helped and it was it was great Grafton is Grafton is very good like that you know the reserience you know so you know we're energized and uh we're raring you know Grafton is open for business that was one of our slogans it's a good message yeah so yeah any any other questions that anybody has or thoughts if we can be helpful We'd love to, you know, continue back to Grasson and play a role in anywhere. Yes. Well, we'll be reaching out and we'll we'll get you the flyer and all the particulars about the uh the May 15th event and we hope you can be there and we'll we'll definitely be in touch. All right. Very good. And

make sure you tell Bob Hassenger I said hi. I will. He'll remember me. He'll Oh, yes. I'm sure he will. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to come come by and we'll we'll be in touch. Okay. Thank you. So nice to meet you. Yeah. Great to meet you. So nice to meet you. Yeah. Same here. Okay. All right. Thank you, Angela. Thank you so much. Okay. So that was very productive. Encyclopedia. I know. I know. Which Well, this is this is the type of thing that we that we need. If if two things come to mind and it's speak up a little. So Oh yeah, it's a big if. If the zoning wasn't such in front of Wyman Gordens, subdivide, well, they've already divided the property, but subdivide the property in such a way that we could change, you know, change the zoning on it and possibly get someone take a second look or another look at it. And it's it's not impossible to change the zoning. It's just it's a town meeting. So, it could be even a citizens petition. Granted, most likely for zoning type changes, you they usually don't from history, they don't pass the plane board doesn't support them. But if there's especially if there's a proposal for something that could go in this, you know, in a zone or someone that wants to build something in in a zone, that also helps get things passed happy with it. If to just use it as an example an ice rink if building an ice rink was something that was feasible people were happy with and that was suitable for that spot which I feeling ice rink wouldn't be but that's just my feeling but anyway changing the zone to something

that could support ice rink would be in my mind something that would probably easily pass a town meeting. Now I think the bottom of the town wants to see is developments that help us, you know, finance as a town and don't detract from the character of the town and help Yeah. don't hurt the neighborhood that it's built in. Yes. Exactly. And the other thing that we we need to look at is, as I mentioned, the fishable mill site. I recently went by there and I saw some different heavy equipment in there. I don't know if I'm assuming if you see a piece of equipment that something's happening, maybe we can find out what if anything is happening and and maybe those folks might be I say, "Hey, listen. We know this guy. He can help you if you have, you know, if nothing else, he's worth a conversation." Yeah. Put put that put the owners or whoever's in on involved in that property in contact with these these different entities that he just mentioned. Okay. And Who knows off? Do you know anything about Fisherville as far as what's going on there right now? If it is what I'm thinking of, I believe they're doing an inspection uh of the dam that's back there. Oh, I don't know if they're doing any sort of hard construction. Okay. All right. And then also while I think of it, just to kind of pivot a little bit, do you know if the current owners of the Worcester Street in front of Gordon parcel is on that business list because they would be good to make sure that we get at least an invite out to the current owners. They may Yeah. They may not live near here. They may not want to come out for it, but I would like to make sure we have a invite to them. Whoever is the

local real estate agent or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I would guess they're not on the business list because that list is only people who have a DBA on file with the clerk's office. Okay. Not land holders or anything like that. So then we we drive by, we get the phone number off the sign that's on the lawn and we say, "Hey folks," give them a call. Say, "Hey folks, guess what we're doing? Come on by." And I'll I'll say within once this flyer is printed out, I can grab one and throw it in the in the mail, you know, physical mail to the address on file for the owners. Okay. Yeah. You know, I can take on one stamp to do that before it goes up to 78 cents. 72 cents. Um Yes. Um Okay. So, um, can we move on to circle back around to just finishing up because it's now 8:12, so we want to be mindful of everybody's time. Um, about the spring event. So, I think Angela, did you have anything you wanted to add about um, just for the spring event, I'm I'm perfectly fine with receiving a list and doing the outreach. So, however this group deems best that you want to divide it up, I I have no qualms. I'm happy to just do the work. So, okay. Um, sign me up for whoever you'd like me to do the outreach to and I'll get that done. Yeah, I will call um I had spoken to Nicole um about this and I I will call uh over to Jim McGovern's office, Dave Moradian's office, Mike Moore's office. Anybody else we need to reach out to uh from official folks? We talked to Craig who was here tonight,

but I would be surprised if anyone comes from this, but it may not hurt to send a email or or something to the governor's office. I would be surprised if they come, but it may not hurt. [Music] Yeah, nothing ventured, nothing gained, as my mother used to say. And an email or just a a note, you could ignore it. They could look at it and go, "No, we're busy." You know, or you know, whatever. Hey, it's it's worth it's worth a shot. Yep. It's it's you know, it's worth a shot, right? Can't hurt. You know, I'm I'm willing to I'm willing to do that. Okay. Um, you know, um, how about tufts? Yeah. Yeah. The tough president probably the president's office is probably the best thing to send that to, which I'm sure someone has that. They've got to have an office. Yeah. in their system for like say community outreach or whatever it might be. Yeah. So, we'll get we'll get cracking on this in the next week because we've got a month for the event and that that time will go very very quickly as we know. Uh but Craig had everything well in hand. Yeah. And if we want to formally vote on this flyer that was put together, I'm quite happy with the with the one we saw in the email draft. Yes, I am too. I'll move that the EDC approve and ask to be printed this

flyer for the event. How many copies do you want? Great question. Let's see how big your business list is. You got Well, you got to start with a minimum 55. Say 100 at least. Okay. The business list is We had 355 on the business list. Business is 336 that I have. Yeah. There's several duplicates. So, I would say in my mind either 300 350 at least. That way that we have Yeah. You know, that's what I'm thinking. Do you have any professional thoughts, William? Would you want to do more just to have a a stack sitting in the in the entryway, the missile center? Uh, yeah, maybe you do a few extra because then you put them in the municipal center, you put them in, you know, the library places where people go often. Um, but I think even if you do that, 300 is probably a good number because there's going to be some you can't deliver in person and we're also the email blast. So, people get it a couple of different ways. And we can also put it on um the social medias. Yes, social media. We'll put it on uh the all things I guess we can put it on all things grafting page and and things like that. I'm not a member of the grafting group that also exists. That could also be if there's a spot for it. Yes. It is an election year and those that are running for offices can put it in their maybe add it to their site. Yes, I can see some of our select board wouldn't have a problem with that. Yeah, I can imagine the the the ones that I know of that are active on social media would be more than happy to put them on. Yes. Yeah. Sounds like a plan. All right, Angela, do you have any other suggestions? I feel like you're sort of out there in the ether and I don't want to forget

you. Oh, no. Um, I'm I took the notes down on this. I agree. I think having them available at the library, at the municipal center, the flyers, it's really helpful. And my only concern is when we look at the list, I just want to make sure that we're comprehensive in our outreach. And I think that that's agreed upon by the group that we're we're not missing businesses. So, nothing is perfect, but that we just make an honest effort to um to make sure we're reaching out to those businesses who are known and on file with with our municipal center. Okay. So, today is April 16th. I would move that by um April 25th [Music] um we have the flyers sent out um actually what I'd like to do is send out I'll send out emails so that uh early next by mid next week by the 23rd because the 21st is a holiday. So, and the municipal building is going to be closed. So, by the 23rd, um I will have sent out an email and we can divvy up the list for our individual outreach um and what we're going to do, who's doing what. I will, you know, compose what I'm doing. Um we can said that, but we want to get those uh flyers out, printed up, who's doing what. Yeah. And by the 28th, the following week, we should probably have um an update. In other words, I want to

put I'll put together a schedule. Yeah. Okay. So that we'll get out a list. Okay. By the 23rd, we're doing this. then get a progress update by the 28th because otherwise yeah the it's too easy for these things to fall through the cracks. I might have some issues getting out next week saying it's a school vacation week. Yeah, but no problem. Just so long as just so long I can communicate emails. So long as we're rocking and rolling by the week of April 28th because most people are not going to really start to think I think people will show up if they showed up January 26th, 2024 when it was the dead. That was a cold night. They'll they'll show up now in May. So I do have a motion to actually formally approve that flyer. Yeah. Does someone want to second it? Second. Okay. Yep. And I roll call the the vote. Okay. So vote. Yeah, I would would I Yeah, we just need to have you have a have a member remote. No, I don't mean it that way. We just have to say we want the flyer. Yeah. Approve. We've approved the flyer. We want to have approved. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. I have that there's a motion in a second. Okay. So, I'm going to say Angela. Yes. In favor. Sean. I Laura D. I. Okay. Good. Then that's carried unanimously. I'm sorry for taking Angelo, but carried unanimously. Yes. Okay. Um, does anybody have any other business? No. I think so. You We have a list. We're going to call the list and shall we

highlight the one the businesses that we feel we can physically reach? Yes. And then as we as I said before once we get all the businesses highlighted and then whenever you have them available just message us and you know I can swing by whatever. Yeah. We can swing by and just as fast not as fast as soon as we can hit hit the ground running. Yes. Yeah. Go from there. You can coordinate via email and we don't have to be too procedural about the we're just going to say, "Hey, I I I went here and I did this." That's all you have to say. Yeah. We're not worried about No one's going to come come after us for being proactive. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Laura, just for my notes, um, do you have, just to make sure I heard it correctly, do we have anyone designated from the town who will be sending an email blast of the flyer out to the businesses? I just want to make sure I have that correct in my notes. I can do that. Yes, William was going to do that. Okay, great. He graciously agreed and we've graciously accepted. Isn't that Isn't that generous and magnanimous of us? would would it be easy to have that list of places that we that we've emailed to cross reference the list of places to visit? So if we have to like time prioritization, we can say if we didn't get to this business, it was emailed out, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Is that easy or does that be hard? Uh it's easyish. So, it's the the emails we have are if you go to the EDC web page under the directory, it's those 55 businesses. So, anybody can see those. Okay. But I can see if I can pull like a spreadsheet or something like that. If it's something super easy to do, that's fine. If not, I think we can all look at the list. It's not not like it's a thousand places of class reference. I

have a quick question. The congregational church has the thrift shop there. Mhm. Is that something would we include them if they have a thrift shop which is you know that falls be you know 501c3 but you know to me 501c3 businesses are still a business. Okay. That's that's how I look at it. Yeah. You know um and we have you know the unitarian church they do some things and you know it can't hurt to let them know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, okay. So, that's good. Um, if does anybody have any other business? No. No. So, then I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. Salute. Second. I [Music] would I Angela Hui. Okay, we are adjourned. [Music]