Conservation Commission - Regular Meeting

All righty. I'll call the meeting to order. Uh before we get started, let's introduce everyone on this meeting. I'm Sandy Brock. When I call your name, please confirm you can hear. Hear me by verifying that you are present. We'll start with the commissioners. Travis, I'm here. Thank you, Jonathan. Present. Amir here. Thank you. And Noah present. Okay, we'll go with staff. Leah, I'm here. Thank you. And Jan, present.

Everyone's accounted for. Okay. Uh, this open meeting of the Conservation Commission is being conducted remotely via Zoom pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 or order as most recently extended on March 28th, 2025. Access information for the public has been provided on the town website. This meeting is being recorded. Please remember to mute your phone or computer when you're not speaking. This is done on the phone by pressing star six. As chair, I will introduce each speaker on the agenda. Please note that uh you will not have screen sharing privileges but staff can display any visuals per your cue uh during periods of public comment. Participation participants must use the raise hand icon in the Zoom menu bar to indicate they would like to speak. This is done on the phone by pressing star 9 and then star six to unmute when you are called on. Participants who raise their hand will be recognized one at a time and will be promoted to speak. Finally, each vote taken will be conducted by a roll call vote. As a reminder, the commission is concerned with state and town wetlands and storm water regulations. Concerns outside of this preview need to be addressed to the appropriate boards. For example, road conditions must be addressed with the select board. Traffic concerns must be addressed with the planning board. Okay. Action items. Start at the top. Leah.

Sure. Okay. Uh meeting minutes. So we have uh five meeting minutes. They are from uh June 3rd, June 17th, 10, October 7, October 21st, and November 4th. So uh we can uh so I'll just put it out there. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on changes? Uh I'll go around to see if anyone has seen anything. Travis, I didn't have anything. Thank you, Jonathan. Nothing from me. Amir, nothing. And Noah, nothing for me.

I also took a look and did not see anything. Uh, so can I have a a motion? We'll do all of them at once. Uh, motion. I'll move to approve the meeting minutes as discussed. Second. We have a motion and a second. Uh, roll call vote. Uh, Travis, you're on the big screen. You get to go first. Yes, Jonathan. Yes, Air. Yes, Noah. Yes, I am also a yes. Uh, carries unanimously. Um, uh, certificates of compliance. Just go right down the list. Uh, skip the first one because it might be too long.

Okay. Uh, second one is, uh, New England Power for Pleasant Street to Providence Road. Uh, report on that, Leah. Yeah, they finished this project. Um, this was the one that went across Fischerville Pond. Um, they met all their conditions. They gave us a big report. Um, I don't have any outstanding issues and they didn't encounter any issues with the vernal pool, how they had to add that access back in that went near the pool. Um, nothing problematic over there either. So, I recommend issuing the certificate of compliance. All right. Thank you. Roll call to see if anyone has any questions. Jonathan, no questions.

Uh, Travis, no questions. Noah, no questions. Air, no questions. I also have no questions. So, do I have a motion for the um for New England Power Pleasant Street to Providence Road? I'll move to issue the certificate of compliance for New England Powers Pleasant Street to Providence Road project. Second. We have a motion and a second. Roll call vote. I'm going to start with the mirror this time. Yes. Uh Noah, yes. Jonathan, yes. Travis, yes.

I am also a yes. The motion carries. Uh next one is uh it's a partial for 54 Elliot Trail. Lee, want to give us your uh brief on it? Sure. Um so this is a really old filing. Um it was for the entirety of a subdivision called Hassidameset Village. Um this is one house that just needs clearance from that larger order for the whole subdivision. There's nothing outstanding on their lot and it's been stable and you know established lawn for a really long time. Um so I have no issues giving them a partial

for that specific num uh right house. Okay. Uh, do I have a motion for a partial for 54 Elliot Trail? I'll move to issue a partial certificate of compliance for 54 Elliot Trail. Second. A motion, a second. Um, unless there's any discussion as I look around, not seeing any. Um, we'll do a roll call vote. Jonathan, yes. Travis, yes. Air, yes. Uh, Noah, yes.

And I am also a yes. So, that uh motion carries unanimously. Um, any other discussion items? We'll hold for Leland Street to later. Um, you could do the continuence for 162 Old Upton.

Sounds like a plan. Okay. Uh pursuant to the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act, Grafton Wetland Protection bylaw, Grafton Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing uh to act upon a notice of intent and application for Grafton Wetlands bylaw permit for the widening of a driveway at 162 Old Upton Road. Uh the applicant has requested a continuance to uh December 2nd. Do I have a motion? Um move to continue the hearing for Old Upton Road. Second to December 2nd.

Okay. Thank you. And we have a motion and a second by Jonathan. Roll call vote. Travis, yes. Air, yes. Noah, yes. Jonathan, yes. I am also a yes. And the motion carries uh unanimously. So, uh, did I do that too fast to kill time? Yeah, slowed down.

Okay, so we have we have, uh, uh, two minutes. Um, just like to thank everyone for showing up a couple weeks ago to the select select board and be able to be those who are present and know who joined us uh, via uh, Zoom. uh thanks for kind of showing up and demonstrating, you know, um you know, that we're all very much involved in the conservation commission and that we do a pretty good job. So, I'd like to thank everyone for doing that. Um anything else, Leah, for about a minute? It's 710 on Keith Hill Road. Sandy

have the Lake and Sigamund Commission meeting tomorrow. Yeah. Are you getting the emails? I don't know. All right. If you got one recently, then probably not. All right. Couple times. I'm just going to go and and hope I'll write my email on a few pieces like a few cards and I'll pretend that's my business card.

Okay. All right. It's now 710. Okay. So 710. Pursuant to the Massachusetts Wetland Protection Act and the Grafton Wetland Protection bylaw, conservation commission will hold a public hearing uh to act upon a notice of intent and application for Grafton wetlands bylaw permit for the construction of a pool at 6 White Birch Lane. And who's here to speak to that?

Good evening, Madam Chair. My name is Matt Marorrow from Maro Environmental Consulting out of Lemonster. Um, I am here on behalf of the applicants, the Dixons. Um, I also work hand in hand with Sniderpool, who is the installation colony. All right, you have the floor. Be my guest.

Thank you very much. Um, I'll try to give you the readers digest version so you could have plenty of time to ask questions here. Um, so essentially what we have is a proposed inground pool. The ingground pool will have a cartridge filter, meaning there will be no backwash um associated with this pool. You will have a proposed fence and a proposed patio going around the pool. You can see marked in blue is the 50ft buffer zone, which patio comes within a a portion of the 50-ft zone. Um the there will be no work taking place within 25 ft of a wetland. The wetland delineation that's on the plan was done by somebody else prior. the flags were still on site. Um, so I I'm a I'm a certified professional wetland scientist for those of you that don't know me. Um, I went out, I looked at it, poked some holes in the soil, verified the line. It it looked good. Flagging was still fairly fresh. I don't know when it was done, but it was accurate. Um, the dark black dotted line is the erosion protection that is proposed. A waddle detail um with stakes was submitted uh after the NOI based on staff comments that is there. Um the 25 ft no disturb zone is approximate also to the limit of the tree line. Um the vast majority of the work will be taking place uh in the outer 50ft zone as you can see on the plan. Um, and it will be taking place in existing lawn area. So, there's no tree removal, stumps, that type of intense grading associated with that. And with that, um, it's got a D number with no comment. Um, I'll leave it to you guys.

Thank you very much. Uh, Lee, I got a report on that. Um, I really don't have anything. It was very straightforward. I had one suggestion of a special condition, but maybe we don't need it given what he just said, which was uh any water discharged from the pool will not be directed directly toward the wetlands. Okay. Uh go around to the commission if anyone's got any questions. Uh, Noah,

I liked the recommendation about the discharging water away from the wetlands, but if we're not worried about water discharge, I think that should be fine then. All right, Amamira. Um, no questions. All right. Uh Travis, I know this is a requirement, but I would like to get it on record that any erosion control material, blankets, bottles, etc. uses natural netting instead of plastic netting. Okay. No comments. All right. Do we have that already, Leah, as a condition? Yep, we do. Yeah, but I just

All right. Thank you for that. Anything else? Okay, Jonathan, anything? Um, I guess my only question would be is so the tree line is basically at the 25 ft notice disturbed. So, we wouldn't look to put signs, you know, due to the fact that the so this is all within the lawn area and it's not pushing into the trees. I mean,

that that's that's the story right there. Yeah, that was going to be kind of my question. Uh, understanding when the wetlands line was um delineated, just understanding the age of the house and whether there's already signs up there or not.

Actually, there is signs that are there. Um, they've been maintained. Some of them are down. Um, and I will talk to my clients about maybe rehanging some. Uh but again you can see the um erosion protection is proposed in such a way that it would prevent also any intrusion while work is going on into the no disturb zone. All right. Thank you for that. Uh Leah, anything as far as do we know when when this house was actually built? I don't and we I don't remember it but you know

No, we don't have a VPN at the moment so I can't go into our server from here to answer your question. Gotcha. All right. Yeah. And again and I and the only other question I have is that um not that I have any question that Matt went out and checked these. Um I I was more concerned if it's if the delineation has expired. Um I have no problem that this is what was there originally that it's been checked. But I'm just wondering if um you know if that's something we should have kind of uh you know that it's we're not confirming this particular wetlands line at this time. So that was a question I had. And then air you have a question.

Um I was just going to say uh Google says the house was built in 2003. Okay. So it's been there for a while. Okay. If I may, Madam Chair, please do. Um, and I apologize for the interruption, especially if I interrupted a train of thought. I just wanted to point out that based on staff input, um, I had gone back out. I had, it's almost essentially for all intents and purposes my own delineation. I did write a narrative report on the confirmation of the wetland line itself and submitted it to staff.

Okay. Appreciate that. And and and to be honest, I'm not worried about the line. I just want to make sure if it's if it's has expired that either we we recognize it that that was a previous one that you've checked it. It's more just what gets put in as a finding as opposed to requiring anything else. No, definitely understood. Thank you. Yep. Anything else, Leah, at this point? Nope.

Okay. Uh, I'll open this up to uh the public who are online. If you happen to have any questions or comments about uh Six White Birch Lane, please raise your hand. Um, other than that, uh, we'll kind of finish off with what we need to do and do a vote, but we'll take a look and make sure no one has any questions. So, Matt, um, at this point, you know, I don't think there's any issues here. It's pretty straightforward based on the questions. Um, I think it's just the finding that that the wetland line was reestablished in the field based upon a wetland scientist and that information was submitted just so it's part of the finding. Um, and then just what Travis is talking about as far as making sure that any um erosion control or if it's any waddles that it's non-plastic and so forth, which is one of our standard ones. And other than that, any other recommended um conditions? We already chatted about the discharge of the pool water.

Are you asking me? I'm asking I guess I should go do a roll call vote, but I was asking more generally to everyone else. So, Travis, anything else other than what you already stated? No, nothing else. Amira, anything else? Nothing. Uh Noah, nothing for me. And Jonathan, nothing else. I have no further any uh hands raised by the public. Leah, nothing from the public.

Thank you, Jen. Okay. And then um uh based on that, do I have a motion to um approve to excuse me, close the hearing and issue an order of conditions? I'll move to close the hearing and issue the order of conditions for six white birch lane, including the findings that the wetland line was reestablished in the field. And then erosion control will be nonplastic, some sort of natural netting material. All right. Thank you very much.

Before I say, should we add the special I know that that's the type of pool was noted to not discharge, but are we adding the special condition about the discharge of pool water should not be directed towards any wetland resource areas or buffer zones? Um, you know what? I it won't hurt. I mean the the what I heard is that that's not going to happen based on the type of filter system it is where you don't have the backwashes and so forth. So but it's still like if the pool is emptied or something then having that ongoing condition would be appropriate. So

So I'd add that I is what I said appropriate enough to add that condition to the list then? Yes. So, so I would just say for Travis, if you want to just um do your motion again with adding that.

We're not in person. You can't see me roll my eyes. Hang on a second. Okay. So I'll move to uh close the hearing, issue the order and permit with the special conditions as discussed um including the by Jonathan about the pool water discharge. The um wetland line was reestablished in the field and erosion control material will use non-plastic netting. Second. All right, we got a motion, a second. We'll do we'll do a roll call vote. And um and Jan, there's no other no one else has raised their hand. Correct. Correct.

Okay. Thank you. So, we'll do a roll call vote. Travis, yes. Noah, yes. Jonathan, yes. Amira, yes. And I am also a yes. Uh the motion carries unanimously. All right. 7:25. I think we're going too fast tonight. Yep.

So, all right. So, just uh I'll open up the hearing, but uh I need to recuse myself. This is both with TUS, but also uh the company I work for is presenting it. So, um I'll defer it. I don't know whether uh Travis or Jonathan who wants to take the lead. I'll let you two fight about that. Um and you guys can figure that out. If anyone really wants to do it, we've got four minutes to decide. I don't mind, but Jonathan, if you want to do it, that's also totally fine. You got it. Go ahead. Okay.

Yeah. Um, yeah, you guys know what you're doing, so I don't really need to add anything to that. And, uh, and if, uh, Noah or me wants to do this at some point, please let us know. We'd be happy to uh let you give a go at it. Uh but you want to make sure that you're comfortable with doing it. Um you have to practice. Excuse me. I have to practice.

That's okay. When you're when you're ready and we we can do it and so forth. So, but yeah, I I I used to have a thing where I wanted to have a rotating kind of chair and everyone gets a chance to do it. Hasn't quite worked out that way. Um, but that's fine. Don't worry, I'll be taking notes.

Oh, yeah. It's it's you know it's it's good experience because um I don't come to every meeting and it's always good just to kind of get to practice and you know uh so Jan, when's the next uh weed adventure? Um our next weed warrior event is actually this coming Friday. Um, so it'll be 10:00 a.m. to noon at Marryiam Road Conservation Area. Okay.

Um, Yep. And then there'll be a another one Dece Friday, December 19th, um, 10:00 a.m. to noon, same time. Um, and then we'll likely be taking the winter off and picking it back up in the spring. Okay. H, how has attendance been? Pretty good. Um, definitely have like a group of enthusiastic people. Um, mostly retirees, which is why I booked it on Friday this time. Um, yep. But yeah, I'll be hoping to do some more like weekend dates in the coming in in the spring. So,

yeah. And and just to keep in mind, and I can follow up, not here, but uh separately, is that I actually know one of the teachers at the high school and she does environmental, you know, field trips and other things. So, I was, you know, looking to see if maybe if we could um have her kind of reach out to you and and see if there's any opportunity there, you know. Yeah, that would be great. Um yeah, any any sort of help or getting the word out would be appreciated. Um I had someone from one of the scouting troops reach out. Um so hopefully going to get the scouts involved um probably in the spring. Um yeah, just

that sounds good. And depending upon the Friday, I may show up, but a lot of times I have calls at that time. But at some point, I will I I'll show up. I may wait till next spring when it's a little bit warmer, but that's just me. Yeah. We don't blame you. Yep.

All righty. I don't have anything else to fill, so I'm just going to babble for another minute. Oh, there it is. 7:25. Great. Okay. Uh, pursuant to the Grafton Stormwater Management bylaw, Grafton Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing to act upon an application for Grafton Stormwater bylaw permit for the demolition construction of a building at 200 Westboro Road on the TUS campus. Uh, I happen to uh place where I work and I do have part ownership uh does a lot of work with TUS. I will need to recuse myself and at this point uh Travis will take over and I will step away. So have fun. Thank you

Danny. All right. Who's here for the applicant to provide a brief overview of the project and give us a summary of the impacts?

Hi, good evening. My name is Kelsey Kern. I'm a water resources engineer with Niche Engineering. I'm joined by my colleague joined uh by my colleague Chris Hodney who's also a project manager uh with NICH. Uh we are here on behalf of the applicant TUS University. Um tonight being represented by Robert Corvett and others. Uh we're here to present plans and some information related to TU's application for the town of Grafton storm water bylaw permit only. Uh the project does not propose work near a wetland resource area. Um we do have a presentation. Uh next slide please. So this is just a brief intro of the project. Uh TUS is proposing a uh new building that they're calling coming school learning center. Uh this will be approximately 30,000 uh gross square footage. Uh two-story building um expected occupancy starting in the fall semester of 2027. So next slide. Just a brief uh site context overview. Uh obviously Tus University in Grafton is located near Route 30 or Westboroough Road. Um the proposed site is shown here in a red box uh very close to the current animal hospital. Next slide. Uh this is a proposed site plan site rendering uh showing the proposed learning center building footprint. Um some landscaping and pedestrian areas uh adjacent to the building. Um again adjacent to Westboro Road. Um I think that's it for this slide. Next slide. I just included a uh existing condition survey here. Uh the project will include the demolition of the current campus police building which is shown on this survey. Um and some removal of the impervious area of the existing parking lot. So next slide. Um just a a cover sheet. We can come back to this if you have questions on zoning or anything like that. So next slide. I do have to apologize. these uh sheets

are not showing the correct uh like shading of impervious area. Um but I do have the numbers in front of us if we need to verify that. So essentially um this graphic is showing the existing drainage areas and what should be in that sort of darker gray shading is the entire parking lot, the existing pedestrian walkways um and then we are showing the existing um campus building. So, storm water is being directed uh either to the south via overland flow, to the west via overland flow, and to an existing catch basin, or to the um east to an existing dry well uh that's located within that existing parking area. Next slide. And this next figure again uh we're not quite showing the correct patching of the imperous area um closer to that sort of north west drainage area, but this is showing the um proposed building uh roof area and then proposed um impervious areas for the pedestrian sidewalks. Um roof or sorry um runoff from the roof area would be directed to the subsurface uh infiltration chambers. Um and then uh we're just basically um replicating the existing overland flow drainage areas uh to the south and to the east. Next slide. Uh here's our exist or our proposed grading plan if you have any questions on that. And next slide. So this is our proposed utility plan. As I mentioned the runoff from the proposed building um roof will be directed to those subsurface chambers. So we are meeting the requirements of the town's MS4 permit requirement regarding the removal of total suspended solids and total phosphorus. Uh we are capturing retaining retaining and infiltrating uh the 1 in uh runoff um but of the total roof impervious area and I have those numbers there. Uh we are reducing runoff rates peak runoff rates in every storm event um with this particular design.

And then um we are decreasing overall impervious area by about 21 square feet. So just getting it in there. Um happy to field any of your questions. Thanks for your time tonight. Leo, why don't we start with your report out on your findings and what's left and then we can go around the virtual table.

Sure. Um so I have a very specific question. Um at test pit number two where the um underground infiltration chamber is going to go. Um the logs said that they went down 6 and 1/2 ft and did not encounter groundwater. Is that enough to be confident there'll be adequate separation between the unit and groundwater? We believe there will be. Yes. Um and based on another test pit that was done um in a in a prior uh project, uh we believe groundwater will be low enough uh to uh uh receive infiltration from those large stream events.

Okay. Um this is before Graves Engineering for Peer Review. Uh we don't have that report back yet. And other than those two items, I really just had started drafting conditions, but that's probably getting ahead of ourselves, so I'll throw it back to you guys. Um, I'll go around the room, see if there's any questions. Noah, you're up. Nothing from me. Jonathan, no questions. Amamira,

no questions. I had a question for Leah. Um, I could not find the fish letter from 10:24, mostly because I didn't have time to search through the files. It's really far in the storm water report. So could you explain why like what the nexus was for the coordination with fish and wildlife on this project? Are you asking me or the team? Well, who whoever knows if you're not sure then Kelsey? I would defer to Kelsey. I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question?

So I'm curious what the nexus is with Fish and Wildlife for this project. Why you're coordinating with them? I guess I'm I'm not clear on where we mentioned that in the stormwater report. I I can jump in, Kelsey. So, you're referring to I believe Sorry, Chris Audi Nich Engineering. Um I believe you're referring to the um the endangered species protection which is part of the SWIP that's included in the storm water report. Is that right? Yes. Yes. So, that's it. It's basically just a requirement of the storm water pollution prevention plan with the when you file with the EPA the way the site is classified. We had to do that just to confirm that there would be

no is that under section 10 of the endangered species act. Uh well it's it's section three of the stormwater report or sorry of the SWIP. I beyond that I'm not I don't know where it's actually ultimately coming from. I just wanted to point out I checked IPAC and it looks like it's the species there are uhricolored in the the monarch. So depending just make you just wanted you to be aware depending on the timing of your project if those species switch to listed you may have to do some additional coordination. Right now they're they're just proposed so they have different protections under the ESA.

Okay. We'll um we'll keep that in mind if the schedule stretches out. And Leah, what are we waiting on again? Can you remind me? Peer review from Graves Engineering. Is that something that will be ready in time for the next hearing or would the applicant like to request a continuence further out? Um

or is it a debate? I believe we just authorized his review. Um or maybe still need to. I don't know if we've received the check just yet. Um we wait till we have funds in hand and then we tell Jeff to get started. And I don't know. Sorry, Leah. I have to actually ask them if they'd like us to vote on it tonight or request a continuence. Yes. Yeah. So, I guess my my opinion is we need the engineering the peer review, but Chris, Kelsey, it's up to you guys if you want to request a continuance. Um, I'll defer Chris on that one.

Yeah. So, I guess what I can say is you you definitely don't have the check because I only approved it this morning and I know we haven't gotten it over to you yet. Um, so if that's what you'd like, I think we'd probably request a continuence of the next hearing just so we can have that in hand. Make sure we're addressing any comments. Um, assuming that you think you'll have it for the next hearing. I know it's the with Thanksgiving coming up. Um, is that is that going to be enough time for Graves? I mean we can always just send it to the next hearing which is 122 and then if we don't have it in time we can touch base with you guys and if you want to just skip 122 we can then you know open and continue and you don't have to be there.

Okay. Um it sounds like that's the the course of action here from what I'm hearing. So I would say we'd request a continuence to December 2nd. All right. Uh Leah Jan any comments from the public? Technically, you have to say you're opening it to the public first. I am opening it to the public. Are there comments from the public? And we have to wait 10 minutes. Is that right, Leah? There is no specific time.

You guys are harsh on me. I don't think we have anyone in attendees anymore. Um, so I mean, yeah, okay. You don't have to wait very long at all, but we do still technically have to do it. All right. So, do I have a motion to continue the hearing to December 2nd for 200 Westboro Road at Tus University? So moved. And a second. I'll second that. All right. Roll call vote. Jonathan. Yes. Amamira, yes. Noah, yes.

I'm also a Yes. The motion passes. We'll see you in a couple weeks. Thank you. Sounds good. Thank you.

Back to you, Sandy. Oh, no. Thank you, Travis, for doing that. All right, so it looks like we have one thing left. Leah, correct. Want to give us a a breakdown on that particular uh certificate of compliance?

Um, sure. So, three Leland Street, we've been talking about this one for a few meetings. We left the last discussion with a few items outstanding. Um the no disturb signage locations were to be shown on a revised plan. They needed to solidify their proposal with respect to their encroachment into the no disturb. A few ideas we had discussed were removal of invasives or possibly supplemental plantings. We needed to figure out procedurally if we're going to require a waiver request, fee, and vote uh retroactively, I guess. And then um we maybe were seeking proof of receding the corner of the barn that was showing erosion. Now, I did my report this morning um and we hadn't received any additional documents. Um, we did get materials after that this afternoon. I haven't even looked at them. I have no uh no advice to offer you on them because I have not looked at them.

So, I leave it to you guys where you want to go from here. I I think based on the timing and not getting them in and which means you know uh not only did you have not looked at it did you was it I looked at the different folders. Did you get it into our folder or is it not even there yet? I think Jan has it in Dropbox labeled new. I think

I I would not I I would um prefer not to and I and I'll go around to the commission. I prefer not to take a look at it during a a hearing and rather have staff take a look at it, make sure and so we can be prepared to discuss it. So, let me check with uh the commissioners to see if they have any other kind of approach. Uh Travis,

um I wasn't here during the last meeting, but I did sign the the form. I did not see anything that was provided that indicated where invasive species removal would occur or what the duration would be for that removal um which I was looking forward to seeing. I also it wasn't clear where um the plantings would occur that were going to be offsetting the impacts to the wetlands. Um, so those were, I guess, the things I was looking for on this as next steps. Yeah, I do believe we have I agree, Sandy, that we we probably shouldn't.

Yeah, but we also have the applicants so they can at least hear what we say, but also give kind of the feedback. So, let me That's more my feedback as opposed to a question is that's what I was looking for. And um, let me just kind of go around to the other commissioners. Amira, have you I don't know if you had even had a chance to look at it yet. I did briefly look at it before the meeting, but I wouldn't say it was enough time to Okay. to feel like I digested it fully. Um, so I'm I'm with you on maybe having this conversation the next meeting when people have more time to review.

Sure. Uh, Jonathan, any kind of uh comments or feedback? I echo what Amira just said. Okay. And Noah, nothing more than what's been said. Okay. So, let me give an opportunity for the applicant and his representative to kind of respond to that. I think it it's more than anything else it's timing, but you also heard a little bit from uh Travis about a little bit more detail. So, I'll I'll open it up to the applicant um if you want to kind of respond to We haven't reviewed it in any depth, so we're not really looking at that close, but if you have anything else to add, that'd be appreciated.

John Federico, um representing the applicant. Um I believe Craig Johnston, the property owner, is here as well. Um but just, uh to kind of um help fill in the commission on a couple of things, um we have explored um looking at the invasive species removal. Um, one of the concerns, um, or a couple of members had concerns about the, um, extents and how long it would take to do the removal. Um, Goddard consultant had gone out and done an analysis. Uh, they have identified probably about like five to six different types of invasive species and have estimated that removal um, could range anywhere from a year up to three years. Um since I know that at the last meeting the commission wasn't really looking to have this um certificate of compliance request go on for multiple years um we opted into going into a uh planting route. Uh so the plan that we did submit a little bit earlier today does show um what we were initially anticipating for plantings on there. Um essentially we just wanted to kind of get some feedback from the board if um that they determined was sufficient enough or if uh we might have to uh go a little bit more robust with our plantings there. Uh that plan also does reflect the um updated locations for the four conservation placards. Um and that has been labeled on the plan as well. Um so uh at least that's where we kind of stand right now with things. Um no receding has been done just yet just because the fall grow season um is kind of over at this point. Um but that is something we are still intending to have addressed for us. Um, so at this point I'll kind of just let it um go to Craig if he wants to add anything else and then just get any final thoughts and feedbacks from the commission.

Yeah, go ahead Craig. And then I was just going to have uh Jan bring up the plan just so that we can look at it. I mean I didn't to be quite honest when I get prepped for this um meeting I saw um I didn't I didn't look at it to be quite honest. So, I believe if I recall correctly, the uh plan called for I think it was 16 total new plantings on there. Um some of them were blueberry bush and then um there was one other type that um I forget off the top of my head. And then uh Mr. Johnson was going to be adding in um two trees as well u by the freestanding wall. Uh one of them was a maple, the other uh was a spruce.

Okay. Yeah. Mr. Johnson, if you want to uh add anything to that other than that, Jan, if you want to just bring up uh that that plan really quickly just so that we can see it, but then we can and if anyone has feedback based on on what was just discussed. Um I'd rather give that kind of feedback now. Um as opposed to wait till the next meeting. Um could I could I just jump in for one second? Certainly.

Thank you. Uh Craig Johnston, the applicant. Um first I want to apologize for this plan being in so late. Um guarded guarded consultant out of Northro. We didn't we didn't believe it was going to take them that long to get us the report on the invasive species. And um at John Ferico's recommendation, he felt we we should draft this plan, get it into you folks. We weren't asking you to review it tonight. We were going to ask for a continuent until um December 2nd, but if you do have the time um to take a peek at this plan right now, we would appreciate it.

Yeah. And I don't think we're going to come up with any specific things, but it would be nice that if John could just kind of point out where the different planting is and just so that we can our staff can take a more detailed look at it and then we understand what's coming and then yeah, we would yeah, we don't need to do a continuence. We'll just do no action taken on uh uh on the certificate of compliance. So, um, so John, if you want to just hit where you're adding plantings.

So, essentially on the plan, um, any place that has like the little dot hatch is where we are proposing the new plantings. Um, we have three of them that are going to be the northern spice bush that are located, um, kind of in the center of the plan. Um, right where we have the, um, 12-in, uh, flared end section and that, uh, driveway crossing. Um the next set of locations is um up on the northern uh portion of the site um up by where the freestanding wall is and um anything that's within that lawn area adjacent to that. Okay. All right. Jan, can you just zoom in a little bit?

In terms of the conservation signage, um essentially there is four of them that run along the top of the wall. Um, if you are to look uh towards the southern side of the garage, you'll see the call out there. And then there is uh one additional sign at 20 foot spacing that's uh down by our proposed plantings. And then one final one down by uh wetland flag um A18 A19 area. Again, all of those were installed at the top of the uh armored slope. Okay.

All right. I I'll go around to the commission to see if anyone has any more specific uh questions, but um yeah. So, and again, I'm just trying to see if someone sees something and we can mention it now. Maybe it speeds it up on next time, but next time we'll we'll have reviewed it. So, um so just to go around, uh Travis, anything else you want to say now that you've heard about um the invasive species? So, one comment or feedback would be it it would be helpful for some sort of a narrative to describe how these plantings are offsetting the impacts to the wetlands. Um, I don't remember how many square feet of wetlands were filled, but just some sort of a short narrative, a paragraph explaining how this plan is going to offset the impacts and why this is the best approach. Also, I I just looked at this, but if those plantings are mitigation for the wetland impacts, then I think they need to be protected long term through a condition and the signage, the no disturb signage. It It looks to me like it's at the top of the wall, which means these plantings are outside of the protected space. So, if if this is accepted as mitigation, I think it needs to be protected somehow. Um, it looks to me like they're just sort of planting surrounded by turf grass, which from a wetland value standpoint doesn't strike me as all that beneficial.

Yeah. Uh, those are my comments based on my quick read of the plan. Okay. Um, Jonathan, anything else to add? You mentioned that there was two new trees. The only thing I noticed was in the planting legend in the schedule, it says existing maple and existing spruce. Um, so I'm assuming that's just a misnomer that those are new trees or are those existing trees that you're

uh so just to clarify for that um they are new to the project. Um but Mr. Johnson um has already had them uh planted. Um it was something that he was intending um to kind of do to help beautify that area a little bit. Um, so we included them into our legend, but um the spruce and the um the other tree, if if that's something that we can't count towards anything, we we'll just take them off that legend. No problem. I don't know if that's I just flagged it because you said it was new, but it was says existing. So that that was my only comment. Sandy.

All right. Thanks, Amira. Anything else to add? Um, I think the only thing I might add, and I guess this is more for the commission, um, the last time we talked about this, we, um, we were kind of like weighing um, asking them to do invasive species removal. Um and and that's why they kind of got that um wetland scientist to to advise them. Um so I know that the applicant said that the wetland scientists um said it would take one to three years. Do we on the commission feel like like do we just agree with that? I guess

yeah I think how do you all feel about that?

Yeah. So, and we can go around ask folks and I had one of my concerns about doing successful invasive plant removal is sometimes it takes multiple years and um and again that was my only kind of how long would it take type of things and what are the plants and is it deep in the wetlands or I I don't I don't know when it comes to doing you know kind of removal plans of invasive invasive species even know I've been involved with different ones. I'm certainly not an expert and we're looking to get that which it sounds like that that did. So let me go around. I don't know Leah if you have any kind of initial comments on it otherwise I understand if you don't just because you haven't had a chance to really look at it.

I do not. Okay. Uh kind of responding to what um Amira said. Does anyone else have any comments? And uh uh Noah, do you have anything to add to that? No, I'm sort of echoing what's been said. No comments. Yeah. And then um Travis, anything kind of to what Amra was saying about going back to the

I have a question and I I wasn't on the I don't remember the conversation from the recap, but is maybe this is a question for Leah, but is the three-year invasive species treatment plan, which seems totally reasonable to me. Does that conflict with closing out this permit? like can we close it out while those things are still happening and they send you a report? I would not recommend that at all. No, we would want everything buttoned up to give a certificate of compliance. Okay. I mean, there are ways to do it. Some folks like some commissions in other parts of the state collect a bond. Yeah.

Instead, that's a whole another thing to manage. It seems like the planting idea I mean I without seeing the report or knowing the species I mean three years seems reasonable to do any sort of meaningful treatment on invasives Jonathan anything else to add to that?

I nothing to add to that specifically but just looking at this plan. So the the no disturb chases that uh slope you've got the four signs that are mostly clustered towards the center of it. I see where it dies plan. Well, actually it's just west right by the plantings that we were talking about in the middle. Um, is there a reason that there's only four signs and it doesn't chase the whole wall if the no disturb is on the or I say the slope, you know, is that something that why just in that location if that's where the no disturb is and then it's in a similar spot as you go up the slope. I guess that's to John.

Um, as far as it goes, I I'll turn that one to Craig if um he had any intentions to add any more or um what his general thoughts were for the location of those. Um I don't believe our plans ever had them um shown as, you know, going the whole entire length or anything along those lines. No, John, they they This is Craig again. No, they they didn't because the um the paperwork that I received from the conservation indicated they only wanted four signs in this specific location.

Okay. Uh yeah, and the only thing that I have and and again it's it's more something that we'll have to look at closer is, you know, um as far as the plantings being in the middle of the lawn, I'm wondering um you know, the the area between the slope in the uh actual wetlands on the low side there is, you know, I'm wondering how much was disturbed. And I'm wondering if the planting really belongs to be in that 25 foot buffer as opposed to in the lawn. um it'll just be protected. So,

just to uh to add to that portion, um Goddard did identify um essentially all the invasive species were spreading in between where the wetland edge was and the base of the armored slope. Um so, I wouldn't think it would be appropriate to put any new plantings down in that area as invasives could potentially um choke them out. um at least by keeping them up at top of the slope there. Um we do create a nice visual barrier um to somewhat hide that slope, but um I do not anticipate those invasives creeping that far up that they could start to affect these plantings as well. Okay. Um and just curious, did you submit the uh report by by Goddards?

Uh we didn't submit it yet, but if that's something that the commission needs to see, um we can uh work to get that sent over as soon as possible to you folks. I I I think that would be helpful. And again, I think we're trying to find the balance here, you know, um and you know, and do what we're responsible for doing, which is protecting the wetlands. Um and and I don't want to put our our staff in that position of not having really looked at it. And you know, I haven't been out to this site, so I'm not going to, you know, I don't have a good sense of what's going on between the wetlands in, you know, in the actual slope, the armored slope and so forth. So, you know, and so I'm kind of curious what the invasives are, you know, that type of thing. and and if there's again just trying to find that balance of of providing some some uh you know some you know compensation so to speak of the uh of the reduction of the no disturb zone and so forth. So

sure um we can definitely provide a copy of that report. Um I I just recall off the top of my head that it was between five to six different types of invasives that were uh found in that area. Um, but uh specific types I don't recall off the top of my head for it. So, uh, we'll we'll provide that. No problem. And that's not a problem either. So, Sandy, can I add one thing? Yes.

Off of a comment that Jonathan made, the four no disturb signs that were required in the order were only those four because that was the only place they were going to get close to the no disturb our initial approved plan. now that they've encroached and gone farther if the commission wants to request additional signage because they're closer to the no disturb along a greater length. That's something you guys could discuss as well. Okay. And I I have if you need more signage, I have no problem adding those if you feel them to be necessary.

I appreciate that. Yeah. Okay. You know, I appreciate just kind of your input being here and so forth. It just gives us a little bit better idea, but we also just kind of need that little bit more time just so that we can look at it and not make a not make an informed decision. That's all completely understandable. And again, we apologize for getting this in late. It should not have gotten in late.

Yeah. And that's not a problem. I think then um what we'll probably do is we'll we'll simply and I'll go around and check with the commissioners that we'll take no action tonight because this is a certificate of compliance. So unless we do a vote, it it just stays the same way and then we've had we have this conversation on record and then at the next meeting we should be able to kind of have the additional information have a chance to look at this plan and kind of kind of make recommendations. I think you know the whole idea here is come up with a a balanced approach so that you know we do our job and um you also you know get something that's enhancements to the wetlands anyways. So

completely understandable. Okay. So I will just quickly go around to see if anyone else has anything else to add to this. Otherwise we'll take this up at the next meeting. Amira, nothing else to add. Thank you Jonathan. No additional comment, Travis. Uh, just real quickly, if there's other areas of your property that are in a wetland but currently mowed, I don't know if the commission considered restoration of mowed turf that's in a wetland, but I would um entertain that as well. So, nothing else though about the plan?

Yep. Yeah, it doesn't look like there is, but no, we haven't looked at it that closely yet. So, that's a good question. Um, and Noah, anything else? Nothing from me. Okay. Yeah, I have I have no further questions and appreciate the applicant to trying to follow up and be, you know, uh, make sure he takes care of this. We appreciate that and we'll continue to kind of work and see what we can come up with with a a balanced kind of uh, response and make sure that um, you know, we're doing our job of protecting the wetlands. So, okay. Thank you.

Yep. Thank you very much. Other than that, um we we get to call it a night for us. So, Leah, is there anything else that we need to go over prior to Nope. That's it. Which means we have one last motion. Motion to adjurnn. Second. We have a motion and a second. We'll do a roll call vote. Jonathan, yes. Amra, yes. Noah, yes. Travis, yes. I am also a yes. So,