Board of Health - Regular Meeting

does not ensure public participation unless such participation is required by law. The purpose of this meeting this evening is for a public hearing. If the public has a question or comment on the agenda, please utilize the Q&A feature in Zoom. Please include your full name and address when submitting a comment. I will note that there are no other attendees except for those that we have already gone through, which we'll acknowledge throughout the call today. For this meeting, we are being convened via video conference via zoom as posted on the town's website identifying how the public may join please note that this meeting is being recorded and that some attendees are participating by video conference accordingly please be aware that other folks may be able to see you and take care not to screen share your computer anything you broadcast may be captured by the recording Any supporting materials that have been provided to members of this body are available on the town's website unless otherwise noted. The public is encouraged to follow along using the posted agenda unless I note otherwise. Before we turn to the first item on the agenda, permit me to cover some ground rules for effective and clear conduct of our business and ensure accurate meeting minutes. I'll introduce any speakers on the agenda for a topic. After they conclude their remarks, I will invite the board to provide any comment, questions, or motions. Please identify yourself by name when speaking. Further, please remember to mute your phone or computer when you are not speaking. Please remember to speak clearly and in a way that helps generate accurate minutes. For any response, please wait until I yield the floor to you and state your name before speaking. If members wish to engage with other members, please do so through me taking care to identify yourself. Finally, any votes on any motions made during this meeting will be conducted by roll call vote. Okay. All right. And as I mentioned, the purpose of the call this evening is for a public hearing. regarding contested violations at 9 Waterville Street in North Grafton. Would a member like to make a motion to open the hearing?

This is Andrew Chalupka. I move to open the hearing regarding 9 Waterville Street.

This is Phil Muller. I second that motion.

Roll call.

Andrew Chalupka, aye. Phil Muller, aye.

Aaron Wazdowski-Gobin, aye. Ben Maynard, aye. Okay. Okay. Thanks for your patience, everyone. It seems like we can see almost everybody and we can hear everyone. So the members of the board, as we stated, have been given some materials to review prior to this. And so first, what I'd like to do is hand over to Mackenzie Faulkner to give us a summary of her findings at 9 Waterville Street. And then we will go through, I understand, the Garceaus, perhaps Rich Adams, and Ryan Etchery might have commentary as well. So folks, just wait until we call on each of you for your comments, and we may have follow-up questions. So with that, I'm going to hand it over to Mackenzie to give us a summary.

Hi, I'm Mackenzie Falker. I did the inspections at 9 Waterville Street. So the first one was done at the request of the occupant on May 12th. It was a complaint-based inspection. I found, at the time of that inspection, I found one, two, three, five violations. Two violations were deemed conditions deemed to endanger On June 4th, I coordinated with the occupant to do a re-inspection of the previous violations. And at that time, he also requested a comprehensive inspection. And then, sorry, let me just pull it up. At that time, I noted... 15 additional violations and three of the original violations were still outstanding. Did you want more of a summary than that or?

I think that's, I just would note that there were some conditions that had a 24 hour turnaround time for correction and some on both inspections and some that had a 30 day to correct.

Yes.

Okay. Members of the board, before we ask for comment from the owners and the occupant, just wanted to see if there were any questions for Mackenzie.

Mackenzie, could you please repeat the dates of the two inspections?

Yes, the first inspection was May 12th. Let me, sorry, let me just double check. Yep. Sorry, the first inspection was May 11th. The report was finished May 12th. And then the second inspection was, I think it was actually, it ended up being the third. Yeah, the other one was the 4th.

June 4th.

Yeah, sorry, June 4th.

Okay, and at that time, June 4th, there were 15 new violations and three remaining violations from May 11th?

Yes, so the three remaining were not past their time frame yet. They still had some time on that. The new violations were found during the comprehensive inspection, which was requested on that day.

Okay, so the remaining violations from May 11th, including the ones with the 24-hour turnaround, have been fulfilled?

I do not know. After I sent out the notice on June 4th, they requested the hearing, so I don't know at this time. I haven't done a re-inspection yet.

Okay. All right, thank you.

Mm-hmm. Thanks, Andrew. And Mackenzie, so just to double click, the initial inspection was done as a result of a complaint by the occupant. And so your review was really focused on those specific areas. Yes. And then during subsequent, a comprehensive was requested, which triggered you to look at the rest of the property. Is that correct?

Yes.

Great. And I believe from my review of the documents, the things that were supposed to be done within 24 hours from the initial finding had been completed. And then to your point, there were some additional 24-hour conditions found on 6-4 that it looks like two of those that are being contested are on the list here, are 24-hour related timelines.

Yes, I believe so.

And then I just wanted to confirm, just for those of us on this call, this is a single-family dwelling, two-bedroom, two-bath?

I'm sorry, who do you want to respond to?

If you happen to know the answer to that question, that would be, you can respond.

It's a single-family, yes. I believe it's two bedrooms, two baths, yeah. Great.

One bath.

It's rented as one bathroom.

It was rented as one bathroom. That bathroom has been non-existent since probably 35 years ago. I capped it off. And he was told to stay out of that room. That room was locked off to him.

Okay, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to, I'm sorry. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. Question is just, it's two bedrooms and two bathrooms in the dwelling, correct? Whether it's locked off or not, it's two bedrooms, two baths.

Madam Speaker, if I may. Yeah. The house is a three-bedroom, two-bathroom, single-family house.

Three-bedroom, two-bath. Thank you. Single-family. And that was, is that Brett?

No. No, this is the occupant, Ryan.

Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you, Ryan. Okay. All right. Any other questions for Mackenzie? Okay, so now I think what I'm going to do first is turn it over to the Garceau's who I think you are, you indicated earlier, Julie and Brett, you are the owners of the residence. And it looks like from our understanding, there are five violations that were indicated both from at different times, you know, some from the initial inspection, some from the secondary. five that pertain to a bathroom on the second floor, and then two that are related to a carpet area in the living room and the handrail on the front steps. Those are the two that were the 24-hour turnaround. It's my understanding that those are the seven violations that you are requesting reconsideration of. Is that correct?

No. I'm requesting only reconsideration of the items in the second bathroom and one in the basement. I've repaired every other item on the list.

Okay. What is the one in the basement?

On the inspection, it's labeled as a water pipe leak. Yeah. It's not a water pipe. However, it's a heat pipe for a steam heater.

Okay. Okay. So the steam heater in the basement that's causing the leak you're asking for, you're not asking for the carpet between the living room or the handrail?

No, that's repaired. Thanks. Okay. And I have... I'm prepared to show photos of all the repairs. I have them with me. I'd like to do a screen share.

Yeah, go ahead. And then certainly now is your time to provide your feedback as to what things you'd like the board to consider as it relates to the bathroom and the water pipe.

Thank you. Sharing is not turned on. Oh, wow. Here you go. Okay. Okay.

Just make sure you only share what you want us to see.

Entire screen. I guess I'll do it again. Entire screen. You got my screen?

Yeah, just, okay. So yeah, there we go.

All right. So I'd just like to do a summary and sort of set the stage for what brought us here. Nine Waterville, obviously. Just a brief history. And at first I'd like to say that I've done most of the repairs and I desire to comply with all of the regulations that the state has here. Back in January, the tenant was told the house was going to be sold. And in February, he was given a notice of non-renewal of his lease. His lease was ending on April 30th. On April 12th, when it was coming up, since I haven't heard from him, I asked him what his plans were. And he texted me back and he said, LOL, I'm not going anywhere. And there it is. What are your intentions by the end of the month? LOL, I'm not going anywhere. So May 1st, the tenant's notice to quit was delivered to the constable, subsequently to the tenant on May 1st. May 11th, according to the official documents, after receiving notice to quit, Ryan filed a complaint with the Board of Health resulting in these demands for repairs. June 15th, the tenant informed myself, who was managing the property, I'm not sure why he thought that he wanted to share this, but he said that by calling the Board of Health, he was one step ahead of me, and now he can't be evicted for six months. However, the official documents don't support that. All of the relevant documents are available for review. They're all filed in with the court. June 18th, Ryan informs me by text that I'm no longer welcome to come to the house to complete the remaining repairs. I was there several days in a row doing these repairs. So that just gives a summary of how we got to where we are. Now, about the items. This is the first page of Ryan's lease. One, two, three, four lines down. in bold print, it says use of second bathroom and third bedroom are not included as part of the agreement and are off limits to anyone except the landlord. So my father who was the previous owner, he was the previous landlord, he put a lock on the door. And from what I, from two people, are going to tell you here today that that door was locked and it was removed. My father told my mother that there was a lock on there. And there's another witness in the group here today who's going to be able to say the same thing. Not only that, that room, as you'll see when we get to the pictures, I guess you've seen the lease here. If anybody needs a chance to see this again, if they can't read it, Be glad to help them with that. Second floor bathroom.

Yeah.

Not included.

Right. Could you, I don't want to interrupt you, but could you actually increase the Zoom? Because I can't read that. And I don't think that the members of the board have seen this document.

Okay. I did leave that with the Board of Health. I left a copy in with the Board of Health several weeks ago. Let me see if I can.

So if you look at the bottom right of your screen there, you see there's like just above where your battery bar is. There's that little scrolly bar there. Above, up top. Above. On the PowerPoint, you see there's a line that says 60%. If you push the plus button down a little bit.

Thanks. That's all right. Where is it now?

So go a little bit further down. There's on the right corner, there's a 60%. You see that? It's very small above the time on your PowerPoint.

Nothing there on my screen says 60%.

Let's see. Yeah, it should be on your PowerPoint and there's a scroll like right by the presentation button on the right hand side. It looks like it's a slide bar right there. Yeah, thank you. Somebody circled it. Yes, it's a slide bar. If you could slide that up, it'll increase.

I can't see that because all the friendly faces are over it. There we go. That's all right.

There you go. Increase that.

I'm going to go back here. Thank you.

That's perfect. If you could go a little larger. There we go. Okay.

Is this readable now?

That's perfect. Scroll up a little bit for us.

Okay.

All right. And so I'm just noting that the date is 12-30-2019.

Yeah, that's his lease. That's the original lease. It's the only lease. Use of second bathroom and third bedroom are not included as part of the agreement and are off limits to anyone except the landlord.

Okay.

All right.

Is that visible?

That is visible to me. Other members, can you see that?

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

All right, Brett, continue. Go ahead. Thank you.

Yeah. So the, the, the plumber here who has been servicing this house for, for decades, he's well-established in the community has been working at this house for, for quite a while. And here, here is, here is the bathroom. As you can, as you can see by, by the wall here, it's been just a while since this was a functioning bathroom. This was added. I don't believe this was, my father did not add this, this part here. This was something else. And then If we go over here, this is where sometime in antiquity, there would have been a sink here, but not within the last 25 or 30 years. And there'll be a witness here to testify to that as well. So this is where most of the items are that we're contesting. I think that we're just going to... Yeah, so back up here. We stated... that Ryan hasn't paid his rent since March, for one. We are in the middle of an eviction. Right now, this is Ryan's third eviction. And putting a bathroom in here that was never intended to be a bathroom for him, I think would be an undue burden for my mother, who's already not getting the know the rent that she was supposed to see my father when he passed away two years this june he he purchased this property right with with the idea that the rental income would be my mother's income you know she is in her 70s and in her retirement so the thousands of dollars it would take to add a bathroom in here for for a house that wasn't supposed to have one In the first place, I just don't think that that is a necessary burden that we need to put on her. And these are about the only things that I'm contesting. Now, other things in the house, I'll just go through some of the repairs that were done. This is looking at a, can you see my mouse?

Yes.

Okay, good. This is a gap on the bathroom floor. This was deemed to be a sanitary code violation. It is now sealed. It has been siliconed. It is no longer a violation. I'm not sure where the faceplate to this went, but there it is now. And I'm going through things pretty much in the order on this thing. The window screens were damaged. All of the window screens are repaired. So that's mentioned in several different areas on the inspection report. every one of them is repaired. Like to move down, there was an item that was listed as a safety item on the report. That was the carpet. I'd like to just go on here to say this is the wood by the carpet there. And I'm pointing at that right there. This is cat damage. This is cat damage, this is cat damage. This carpet was in perfect condition when he moved in. The first floor was almost, almost fully renovated. There were new walls, lots of new stuff. But now we have this carpet and it's repaired. Spliced a new piece of carpet in, safety hazard is gone. where there was threadbare here also, safety hazard gone. So those items are fully repaired for now. The next item would have been loose handrails. This item was marked as a safety item on the report. So I am a licensed home inspector and I've inspected at least several thousand homes. I don't claim to be an expert at every single code, but the ones that are important for safety and homes, I know those ones. This is the international residential code that Massachusetts based their standards on. And it says, handrails should be provided on not less than one side of each flight of stairs with four or more risers. So the code on this is if there are four or more risers, another way you could, some people say is three or more than three steps, then a railing is required. But in order to comply with this, I remove the railing. There's no requirement for a railing under Massachusetts code. So safety hazard has been removed. The next item was some water damage. And just like to add, I wasn't aware of most of these things. Almost any of them. Nobody brought them to my attention until they came on here. I don't mind fixing things. I actually kind of enjoy tinkering and fixing things. But most of these things I was not even aware of. This was the backsplash over the kitchen sink. Repaired. This photo... It was cut, glued back on, and caulked. This photo was taken before the caulking had a chance to dry. So, repaired. The other item was a non-functional exhaust fan. Hired an electrician. New exhaust fan. Working fine. One of the items from the first report was that the radiator wasn't hooked up in the front bedroom. The radiator is now hooked up in the front bedroom. Another one of the items that came up, I believe in the first report was some damage to the floor and like the carpet, this was a new floor. And I'm not sure how this damage happened, but it happened after the tenancy of Ryan after he moved in. I plan on doing more repairs later on, but it doesn't seem to make sense to do them while the tenant's still living here because of the damage that he's causing already. And I'm only mentioning the things that are on the report, not the other damage in their house that he caused. Floor repaired. He broke it, I fixed it. Next, let's see. Yeah, I don't need to show much more of this. But in any case, those are most of the repairs, all of the electrical, the receptacles, those have been repaired. I hired an electrician. I had to have an electrician come out on two separate occasions because they were two separate things. reports. That was an extra cost. So in any case, you can see the only things on these reports that are not repaired yet are, one, the items that are on the bathroom, on the second floor bathroom, of which he has a full bathroom on the first floor, and the heat pipe in the basement. Now, seeing Here is about my conclusion here. Seeing that we have shown good faith in complying with the majority of these requested repairs, and most of them relate to items like the bathroom, which the tenant does not have legal access to, we request the remaining items on the second bathroom be removed from the repair order. And second... We've hired a well-known local master plumber. He's not fresh out of school. He's a master plumber to correct the heat pipes. And in light of Ryan's current and third eviction, it's not likely that he's gonna be there occupying the house beyond the beginning of the heat season. And at the suggestion of the plumber who inspected the heat pipes, I mentioned on the report, the pipes that were mentioned, we asked that the pipe repair be deferred to either the beginning of the heating season or the tenants removal, whichever comes first.

Thank you, Brett. The only things that the board will be able to comment this evening on is really about the contested violations. I think we'll work with McKenzie to schedule a follow-up inspection to formally close out the areas that you've presented.

I can't hear you anymore. Comment on anything.

damage done or any kind of civil things that you all might have pending outside, including, you know, eviction processes or anything like that. We can really only focus on the contested violations and what leeway, if any, the Board of Health has to modify those things. I wanted to see, Julie, if you had anything, and then, you know, Brett, if you wanted Rich to offer anything additional beyond what you've stated.

Sure. I'd let Rich go before me, if that's OK. Sure. Go ahead, Rich.

Okay, so I have been the plumber in that house for 35 years. The previous owner, actually, I was the one that got Ray to buy the house. They told me they were selling it, and I asked Ray if he wanted to buy it. We went over, we inspected everything, went through everything, made them an offer, and Ray purchased the house. I've been working for Ray as his service plumber and best friend for 35 years at this point. And yeah, we miss them. It's been our thing. Brett took over the property. Brett's done as much as he could. We've all been working hard to keep it up. The heat pipes at home definitely are, you know, they're falling apart. They're getting older. It was an older place when they bought it and they knew that. But on top of it, that bathroom was locked off and that was capped off many years ago. And he was told to stay out of there. Ryan ended up going in there, decided to try to remodel it himself and And we told him to leave it alone. It was none of his business, and he was told to stay out of it. And he continued to do whatever he wanted in the house like he owned it. And Ray and I did everything we could to try to help him. Every time he called with an issue, we went over and took care of it. Ray has been there, you know, from day one, and so has Brett. They've done everything they could, but unfortunately, Ryan continues to ruin the place and do stuff that he's not supposed to be doing, so... I've been a witness and I can attest to that.

Thank you, Rich. Julie, did you have anything else?

Well, in the interest in staying on point, you know, on what you can help us with, which is, you know, trying to get by, you know, the Board of Health issues, you know, beyond that, you know, I need to sell the house immediately. And the repairs that need to be done to it, I cannot do, you know, with Ryan living there because he's done too much damage. My husband had to rewire the whole house when we bought it because it had some sort of wiring that was out of code. So he rewired the entire house, new rugs, new carpets, new paint, new wallboard. And so, you know, basically, you know, we have tried to keep the house up. Ryan is not really responsive with either text or phone calls when we're trying to get in touch with him. So, you know, we, you know, I would tell Ryan that, you know, You know, if there was anything wrong that we needed to take care of, you know, we've always been available. Brett, my son and my husband and Rich, as you know, my husband's business partner, have always been there for it. So I think that, you know, basically is, you know, Brett presented, I think, you know, what we need to take care of or what we are asking you to help us with. So I thank you for your time.

Thank you. And just, you know, appreciate those comments. Just as I reiterated to you all before, Ryan, you have your time. You know, again, really the areas that we can focus on are the five contested violations in the bathroom. Well, I mean, technically, I guess the living room floor looks like the handrail is taken care of. And we will, you know, as soon as possible, have McKenzie get out to do, again, an adjustment. So that way we can calculate the time related to these things as well, so that we're speaking to the things that we can speak to. But we, again, can't speak to eviction proceedings or, you know, any kind of civil issues there. Okay. So Ryan wanted to give you the opportunity to offer your testimony for consideration of the board and, you know, what your request would be.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. First, I'd like to say the plumber hasn't been here in over two and a half years, so he hasn't inspected or reinspected anything. Secondly, if you need to, I can screen share, but I'd like to see if Brett wouldn't mind the original lease that he's saying that I had that, you know, that that they're saying on the fourth line was, you know, the agreement and whatnot. If Brett wouldn't mind showing that one more time.

And I should say, Brett, those are obviously now a matter of record since we're recording and they're part of an open meeting. So it would be helpful if you also submit those slides to Nancy and Jamie for the record. And I think you submitted the lease agreement If you don't mind screen sharing that, that would be helpful.

Yeah, sure. Try that again.

And Ryan, I just want to reiterate that, you know, we, we may not even be able to necessarily comment on that because, you know, we are not part of any sort of legal things. We really have to focus on the board. So, Well, I want him to, you know, be able to present it so you can call out any section that you're wanting to. We're probably not going to have much commentary on the letter itself.

Okay, so if he doesn't mind zooming in, it says 2019 to 2022. Okay, perfect. I have an updated lease that is for the month of 1-1-2020 signed by the landlord. That was an updated version of that lease because me and the original owner, Ray, who, mind you, never put a single lock on that door. If you look, there's no screw holes. There's no latches. The door still has the old knob style that doesn't have a latch that doesn't lock. So if they want to lie to the Board of Health that is being recorded and say that it had a lock on it, I'd gladly go upstairs right now and video stream that that door doesn't have a single hole on it. So how could there ever have been a lock? Secondly, the lease that I have is for 2020. That does not include those arrangements anymore because the owner and I both agreed that if I fixed it up and got it working, that it was a usable bathroom and it was suffice to use. So I put my own money into it. No rent was taken off or anything and bought floor marble flooring. I put in the cement board to waterproof the walls and put in a toilet as well. me and the owner are the actual ones that had to remove the original stack that was the, you know, for the toilet that, uh, you know, dismissed all the sewage and stuff and replaced it. Me and him replaced it together. Okay. So no, there's no, he had a lock. Rich openly lied to you guys about that. Um, Rich, would you like to attest that there was a lock on that thing?

We're not going to go back and forth. He's already provided his testimony and they've made their statements about what their observations were as well. Go ahead.

I apologize. Let me just turn this camera around. 2020 is the date on the new leases which have nothing to do with the bathroom being not in use anymore.

That looks altered.

So we're not going to comment on other people's testimony. Ryan, listen. Here's another one, too.

2022. This is not altered in any single way. It's not signed. They're all signed in the initial body.

Again, we don't have this document and we are not. obliged to be able to make determinations on this legal document, whether it is or is not a legal document. I appreciate you all sharing the initial one and him now sharing this version. But, you know, again, we're going to have to deliberate, but these documents are not likely something that we can necessarily use as it relates to what the Grafton Board of Health has to review. So, you know, what I would say is you're free to submit those as part of the record for sure. But, you know, we're not going to be, you know, doing a handwriting analysis or looking for all these types of things or anything like that. I just want to be very clear with what our limitations are and what we can speak to.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

Okay.

Ryan, anything else to offer on the items?

I'll stick with the Board of Health violations like you asked us to do. I won't go into the other nonsense. Oh, actually, I would like to interject and just say my first original in contact with the Board of Health, Mackenzie, was bear with me for one second. I think it was April 28th when I first reached out to her and started coordinating with her via email. And it took a while to coordinate a time frame. So There was no serving of a, I didn't know I was getting an eviction notice prior to having, trying to set up a timeframe to come out to see the house. So that's also, that's the only thing I had to add. Sure. Thank you. And I have all the messages from the original owner, Ray, where me and him are talking back and forth about fixing the upstairs bathroom and how he wanted it done because he knew I was making repairs. He had his advice and interjections on making sure that it was done nice. And that's why I spent the high end money and got the marble flooring and things like that. And subway tile on the back splash of the wall behind the toilet. I have all of our messages from 2019 till the day he passed away or the day he went into the hospital. Actually, that's the last message I have.

Thank you, Ryan. Okay, members of the board, do you have any follow-up questions? Just for folks that don't usually attend our meetings. What happens here is I'm going to see if the board members have any questions for those of you who have offered comments on the issues today. And then we're going to, while you're here with us, deliberate some with Annette and Mackenzie. you know, on sort of their observations and our obligations, and then, you know, hopefully be able to land on some decisions today. And, you know, we'll talk about again what we can and cannot use and can and cannot comment on. But members of the board, does anyone have any follow-up questions for Julie, Brett, Rich, or Ryan?

I do have a question for either Mr. Adams or Mr. Garceau. specifically about the second point on the last slide that Mr. Garceau showed regarding the heating pipe. So I'm just curious so that I understand the genesis of the request. What is the goal in deferring the repair of the heating pipe? Is it that the whole heating system needs to be replaced and you can't do that until there is no tenant in the building or

No. No, good question. Yeah. So the reason for deferring that is because there's one, the pipe could be repaired. So it's not actually leaking. It's a steam pipe. So water doesn't go through it unless it's heating season. It's steam. So the pipe itself could be fixed. But what I'm hiring Rich Adams to do is to eventually change the whole distribution system, the boiler is fine. So we'll be converting the boiler, the existing boiler, to a forced hot water boiler. And so what that means is we're planning on taking all the steam pipes out and putting in forced hot water baseboard like you typically see with a boiler. But that's something that can't be done with a basement full of floor-to-ceiling stuff and

and uh furniture and stuff like that so it's rather rather than fixing a pipe that's going to come out you know before the next heating season does that does that make sense that that makes sense i guess my follow-up question would be you know this situation sounds very difficult for everyone involved yeah we as uh the chair has said we can't weigh in on anything except for these issues. We don't know what's going to happen. I don't think you or Mr. Eitri know what's going to happen. My question for either Mr. Adams or for Mackenzie would be, if the pipe goes unrepaired and Mr. Eitri is still living there at the start of the heating season, is there a danger associated with this pipe being unrepaired?

That's a question for Rich, the plumber?

For either Rich or for our inspector, yeah.

So Mackenzie, I'm one of the two. I don't think it's a danger. It's going to drip water. It's got a little steam coming out, something we could repair pretty easily if we have to. But like I say, we have intentions of eliminating those pipes. Once Ryan is out of the property and go to, of course, hot water baseboard, because the steam pipes are just getting to the point that they're so bad that we just keep chasing little holes everywhere. It's just an older system in an older house. Yeah.

Okay. To Andrew's point, it sounds like it doesn't run at risk. Obviously, leaking is not great in the basement for anything. But does it impact the heat flow if there's some leaking happening in the basement, the heat flow to the... Would it really affect... Basically, the water that comes back, it's the condensation from the steam is all it is.

So as it condensates, it... reintroduces that water back to the boiler is all it really does. Madam Speaker, may I speak?

Sure. And yeah, in regards to the steam heater, I mean, yes, as you know, over the years, the eight years that I've been here, he's repaired it four different times that it has sprung a leak. But the only reason that I noticed that this time was because we were in the kind of in the middle of the early spring and the summer stages and it was still cold at night. So I was still using the heat. And when, you know, when I go downstairs to do my laundry above the washer above the dryer, that location it is drip it's not just a drip it was a steady consistent flow and the water burned my arm um it's steam like he said it's i don't know what steam you know water has to boil to to get the steam but it is sufficiently hot and my pets go down there as well um never mind it leaked brown yucky like hot water all over my belongings downstairs which you know i tried to tell the The forest hot water with the baseboards, you know, the house already has three or four of the bedrooms already have the baseboards. There's only two bedrooms, three places in the entire house left that have the baseboards. steam heaters you know the old style cast iron ones so they already were replacing them with me in the house all the repairs that were original to you know the leaks they all did rich had done with my help and with the original owner's help as well um so it's not anything that anyone needs to be out of the house for or anything like that sure sure thank you um

Members of the board, any further follow-up questions for speakers before we begin deliberating? Okay, so as I said, so it's the second floor bathroom we're speaking of. There's evidence that the handrail's already been taken care of. It looked like, oh, no, you did patch the carpet. You said that, I'm sorry. We saw the picture there. So really the focus is on the second floor bathroom. Mackenzie, during your inspection, just to reiterate, you did not observe any, regardless of how it was or was not removed or was or was there, but did you observe any securing of the door when you were there?

No, and actually the door didn't shut either. So that was, I believe, one of the violations that I listed is the door doesn't actually shut and latch. Yes.

I was told that it was broken. It was locked and broken. I don't know what what kind of lock my father put on it. But whatever whatever one it was, was was taken off or broken off.

Yeah, I think, you know, and I'm going to ask Annette and Mackenzie to weigh in here. You know, just I just want to reiterate that we are not attorneys and we are not civil court attorneys. So even as it relates to, you know, what was or was not incorporated in a lease and what was or, you know, what was or was not incorporated in a lease agreement and understanding, we cannot use that in our deliberations here. We need to use based upon state code and based upon what McKenzie's observations were at the time, you know, and we you know, obviously are not sort of inspecting to the point of how did this get removed or not that, but I just want to reiterate with Annette if that is an accurate understanding so that other members of the board and I can be on the same page.

Yes, that's correct. The health department and by extension, the board can only speak to what the state sanitary code requires of both the landlord and the occupant. Any private lease agreements go through private civil court and legal proceedings. So we can't speak on those because, you know, like I said, we're not lawyers. We're just here to enforce what's outlined in the housing code.

Madam Speaker, can you see my camera sharing?

I can, but, you know, again, we're going to have Mackenzie come back out and do a re-inspection, so we're not going to do a re-inspection on this call.

Okay, okay. I just wanted to show the door.

Thank you. You know, and Mackenzie, you know, took pictures, I believe, the first time and can take pictures again. And, yes, this is being recorded, but, you know, we are not going to do an inspection this evening because it wouldn't really be formal. Okay. So, you know, the other thing we can also confer on here is the request around the leak in the basement, you know, with the information that you have all shared. I believe that was also a 24-hour stipulation. So, you know, I guess with that being said, with, you know, sort of what our limitations are as the Board of Health, And similarly, I'm sure it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyways, you know, any, you know, conversations about who paid for what. And, you know, again, even text messages shared between you all about things are really not something that we can comment on. That's something if you're in civil court to address an eviction or to address the conditions of the home and any retribution one way or the other. that's really for civil court to weigh in on. While we appreciate the context and the understanding of all of your positions, it's not really something that we necessarily can make determinations on because you have all these other steps that you'd need to take to remedy those. So members of the board, with that context, what questions do you have for Annette and Mackenzie And what are your considerations that you need to have better understanding to make decisions regarding the contested violations of the second floor bathroom and the consideration to delay repair of the leaking pipe in the basement for the steam heat?

I have a question for Annette. and this goes to whether we even have leeway here or not, specifically for the issue of the bathroom, the request is being made. We're not considering the lease. It may or may not say one thing or the other. Does code no longer apply if a space is unoccupied? Because I think that has to guide us to one direction or the other. Thanks, Ian.

So the property owner is required to maintain the home in good condition. And so where Mackenzie was able to conduct the inspection without going through a locked door that the occupant didn't have access to, the door was open, it didn't close. the property owner has to maintain that space according to the housing code in good condition. And so because it currently has the fixtures of the bathroom, it has to meet the requirements that the housing code dictates for a bathroom. You know, Mackenzie can speak to it because she was there. But my understanding is that this bathroom is part of the occupied home in the sense that, you know, it's not a separate entrance. There's not a door at the bottom of the stairs that prohibits access. At the time of the inspection, there was not a lock prohibiting access to the bathroom. So it would be considered part of the occupied home and therefore have to meet those requirements of the housing code.

Okay. Thank you, Annette.

I was wondering, Annette and Mackenzie, in your review of the state code, what flexibilities, if any, do we have in terms of timeline for repair of these things? And that speaks to, I guess, kind of the bathroom where it sounds like these folks have some other things that they're working through, but also the request around delaying the repair of the leaking pipe. You know, while also hearing the testimony regarding, you know, the conditions that the leaking might be causing. So what flexibilities, if any, are sort of built in for board members for flexibility around timelines? Because I am mindful that, you know, we're coming up upon 30 days of, you know, finding the longer list of things that Brett had displayed. Many are corrected, but, you know, in particular, the bathroom and the piping.

Yeah, certainly. So, you know, our goal at the end of the day is to get compliance, so have things repaired. And generally when, you know, there's a lot of violations, we understand that it's not reasonable or feasible to fix everything all at once. So we look for what we call good faith effort. In this case, I know Mackenzie went on that second inspection and already saw that those 24-hour items had been repaired. You know, the presentation today shows that additional repairs have been made even since then. So we certainly are seeing that good faith effort of the property owner. So the board certainly has the ability to extend the timeline for repairs. And we just look for ongoing conversations of, you know, ultimately, what's the plan for that? Are you making progress if you're going to make it not a bathroom or making some sort of progress, hiring contractors, doing design to make those repairs. So that's specific to the bathroom. The board certainly has that leeway to give an extended time frame for those repairs. For the leaking pipe in the basement, the issue that was observed was that the pipe was leaking. If the pipe is, you know, I didn't see it, so it's a steam pipe and it's only leaking when the heat is on, we wouldn't observe that violation during a follow-up inspection. So there's certainly, you know, that should be fine if the board decided to extend that and wait until heating season started again. If it's not actively leaking, there's not an active violation.

That's helpful. Thank you. Other members, what questions do you have in consideration of these issues?

You and Andrew covered the questions I had going through my head, so thank you for that. Sure.

I have no additional questions.

Okay. Thank you, Bill. All right. So folks know the chair is not able to make motions, but, you know, I can open for members to see if you, if anyone is so inclined to make a motion. And I would just, you know, I would say, you know, based upon updated information we received today, you can do one for the bathroom, all inclusive of all violations in the bathroom, and one inclusive of the steam heater basement issue, you know, separately so that, you know, both are covered, but they might, you know, if you have a feeling one way or the other around timelines, you know, I think as we've talked about, you know, we You know, what I can say is I don't feel as though we can remove all of these things just given based upon what Annette has said. That said, I think we might have some flexibility around timelines, but other board members may feel differently based upon what they heard. And I offer them to make those comments and or make any motions they feel are appropriate at this time.

don't have a motion um but one further thought for deliberation i mean i am i was a little concerned to hear about the steam burn um because you know there is this ongoing dispute between mr eatery and mr garceau um i don't i'm not an expert in real estate or Law. So I don't know how long an eviction takes place or how long it takes for an eviction to take place, I would would be very concerned if The process was still ongoing. You know, in September, which at this point is only A couple months away, potentially. And The tenant or her pet were to be injured by this. So I would just put that out there. Of the violations being discussed, I think that is the one that has potential to... have a negative impact, a safety impact. I don't think the absence of the bathroom necessarily is a safety risk. It was helpful to hear from Annette that we can't necessarily ignore the code just because it's in a different part of the house. And in this case, it may not even be in a different part of the house. But I don't think those are threatening to life or limb. I think that the the pipe could be, could cause a serious injury, you know, if in fact it already has.

Sure. So follow up question or thought to your, and I think it's a very valid comment, Andrew, you know, a condition for that if, if we consider, um, not requiring or, you know, certainly folks might be leaning towards requiring that repair be done. Um, and I think we heard Rich say that, you know, they have done patches in the past and they could consider a patch, um, or there could be some sort of a condition of by this date or upon, um, you know, uh, removal of any tenant, um, whichever comes first or something like that, and a date being sooner than what we would expect, although we are in New England, to have to utilize the steam heat again. So we could caveat something like that. I just wanted to ask, not meaning to imply anything, but are there any pending civil or eviction court appearances on this issue? that we should know about?

When you say this issue, the issue of the courtroom and such?

We've talked a lot about Ryan's tenancy as well as some civil concerns. I'm just wondering if there's any, like you all are supposed to appear before any civil or eviction court anytime soon that we should know about?

No, there's no civil things. The eviction was, he was served. He is in the middle of an eviction.

Okay. I was served with this, Madam Speaker. It's just, it was ending my current year-to-year lease, giving me a month-to-month lease, which clearly is rental period 5-1-2026. which states that, you know, the rent is going up to $2,000 a month and that come January 1st, they weren't going to be offering me tenancy after January 1st.

Okay. But I was just clarifying, there's no, you all are not planning to, you don't have a court date or anything like that. Okay. No. That we could be mindful of in some of our conversations. But eviction is in process. Again, not something we can, but it would- Right. Lawyer engaged.

Okay. I see why you're asking. No, there isn't anything like that.

Okay. Andrew, I think that's, again, good question. A big part of what we have to confer here is safety of any tenants and the general community, things like that. So hence why Andrew's question. Members, any thoughts on motions around, again, the five bathroom violations upstairs and the one for the steam heat? And again, the motion may be that the violations stand. And if folks are not comfortable with moving out any timelines, I mean, That's okay too. I have to just state that in case anybody is thinking it. It's sort of, you know, what folks are feeling is the appropriate next steps, just given our obligation here.

So for the... I would move, I would make a motion that regarding the steam pipe in the basement, that the... repair still be ordered, but that it needs to be completed either by September 1st, the start of the heating season, or until such a time as the apartment or house is no longer occupied, whichever comes first.

Reasonable.

Is there a second?

This is Bill Mahler. I second that.

Roll call.

Andrew Chalupa, aye. Bill Muller, aye.

Karen Wostowski-Gilman, aye.

Jen Maynard, aye. Okay. And certainly Mackenzie and Annette will help us to modify documentation for that. The next set of violations is that of the bathroom upstairs. Being mindful that these, the considerations that we've talked about around sort of the back and forth about accessibility and things like that, You know, but that we do have flexibility here on timeline, but not necessarily to remove the violations themselves. Would anyone like to make a motion?

Can I ask a question? Sure. Can that bathroom be eliminated? Can we cap it all off and eliminate it?

So from what I heard from Annette, and Annette, please weigh in here, is that, you know, I think part of the issue here for us now is that we have to see what some sort of plan is or some sort of good faith effort with that. We're coming up on the 30-day timeline. But Annette, is that an option to correct some of these issues temporarily? Or what is your thoughts on that?

I would probably have to look into that a little more. Generally, conditions have to be returned to their original condition. So if it was a bathroom, generally it has to remain a bathroom. And when there are bathroom fixtures there, clearly it was a bathroom.

35 years ago, before it was even purchased. It has never been a bathroom since they owned this property.

But again...

I know, but it's never that hard.

I mean, we're not going to split hairs about whether or not. It has a shower in there very clearly. It had a set for a sink. It looks like there's a toilet. Why can't we eliminate it? I mean, I think what Annette is saying is that she can look and see if that is an option. But as it's presented today, we need to look at the plan as it is. And we haven't been presented a plan of otherwise at this point in time that you're looking to reconfigure the home and take away a full bathroom.

That hasn't been in existence for over 35 years.

i'm the one that capped it off for the previous owners because they had problems with the pipes that were going to it so they eliminated that bathroom it has been eliminated for over 35 years that's incorrect without that bathroom we can only speak to what was observed and what's on the property card the property card listed as a two bathroom and the the fixtures for a bathroom were observed i'm happy to look into this after the meeting and if if there's some new If we find that that's a possibility and it's compliant with the code, we can certainly talk about that. But I think for the purposes of today, it's really having the board decide, do you want to uphold these violations? Do you want to grant an extension? How do you want to move forward specifically? And we can certainly continue to investigate if that's an option to remove it as a bathroom and update the property card so that accurately reflects what's there on the property.

That sounds reasonable. Let's consider that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And within a timeframe that is, yeah, within a timeline that is reasonable, you know, given the sort of existing violation. So thank you, Annette. With that feedback and opportunity for the homeowner, you know, what thoughts do members of the board have uh around you know i i will say i i think the you know just given the the property card and what was observed the the violations are our violations uh i think we again have flexibility on um uh timeline at this point unless others feel differently and if anyone would like to make a motion excuse me

That question or Mackenzie or both for the bathroom violations. What's I think I heard 30 days trying to keep all the different dates and everything in check.

So the order letter that was issued on June 1st. from the June 4th inspection gave 30 days for those violations. So coming up on those 30 days, however, like I said earlier, the owner has showed some good faith efforts in making the other repairs. That's something we frequently see that, you know, it's not possible to tackle everything at once. So, you know, certainly if the board wanted to extend that repair date, that's certainly within your wheelhouse, your right.

there's nothing in like the state code that says it must, you can only extend it. So I know state codes and we don't end up dealing that much with the housing, you know, sanitation code that frequently, thankfully. There's nothing where it's like, you can only extend it X amount of time or you can, you know.

Yeah, no, there's no, there's no, like you only can extend it 30 days. It's, it's up to the board's discretion.

Thank you. So it could be extended for a year if you wanted to.

What I'm hearing within the board's discretion of what's right, of course.

Yeah, right. Just to say there's no number.

Okay, members with that in mind, any any thoughts that you wanted to bounce off each other or any motions for consideration? As a reminder, your chair cannot make a motion.

This is Bill Mahler. I would make a motion that we extend the period for the renovation of the bathroom and other 60 days

Any discussion or second?

This is Andrew Chaluka. I would second that motion.

Can I just say one thing here?

We're past that point. Thank you, Doug. Roll call.

Andrew Chaluka, aye. Bill Muller, aye.

Karen Wazowski-Gilvin, aye. Jen Maynard, aye. Okay, so as I said, McKenzie will be in touch to do a re-inspection of all of the areas so that you can have documentation of the ones that have been closed out. You know, and certainly, you know, in that the timelines that we've extended for the steam heater, pipe repair and the bathroom. You know, they'll be working with you as well on that sort of good faith effort piece, as we talked about today. Ryan, I think, you know, as you've said, there sometimes can be difficulty with scheduling. And so if you could just make sure to... allow Mackenzie to get in there as quickly as possible so that we can all be on the same page moving forward. We really appreciate all of you coming today and sharing all the details. While we weren't able to use everything in our deliberations, it was really helpful context to understand and also for Mackenzie and Annette to help us weigh in on what we can use. At this time, I do need a motion from a member of the board to close the hearing.

This is Andrew Chalupka. I make a motion that we close the meeting at 7.47 p.m.

This is Bill Moller. I second that.

Roll call.

Andrew Chalupka, aye. Bill Moller, aye.

Karen Gusevsky, go with an aye.

Jen Mingert, aye. Okay. Thank you, folks. As we said earlier as well, if you presented any documents that you'd like to also be part of the formal record, please submit those to Nancy and Jamie in the office, and Mackenzie and Annette will be following up with you all. Thank you again for your time, and we wish you the best in all of this, okay?

I'm going to ask you just a question while I have you, just very quickly. How will we know... If there's a possibility of eliminating the bathroom.

Yeah, we'll follow up with formal documentation on the decision made today. And then Mackenzie and I will look into that and Mackenzie can reach out. And we can discuss on what the like what the repairs can be if there's the possibility of eliminating it and just, you know, returning it to a workman like condition that the walls and floors are in place. So we'll communicate that directly with you over probably the next week or so we'll get some more information on that. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. Thanks very much all take care.