City Council - Regular Meeting

Order. As always, I appreciate everybody being able to be here. This is the meeting coming out of the But in theory, the slower months that turned into anything except an incredibly busy June and July. And we're heading into a busy August, too. So, Council, I know you guys are already plugged in, but it is certainly going to be a busy one. So with that, we will move into our invocation, our Pledge of Allegiance. As we are coming forward with Father Wiley, our police chaplain, if you would please remember to silence your cell phones and watches and things like that.

Let us pray. Gracious loving and almighty God, we give you thanks for the abundant blessings of this life. We thank you for gathering us together here this evening. We thank you for this city and we thank you for those that you've called to lead the people and the place that we call Goldsboro. Father, we ask that you pour your spirit upon each of us. Give us discerning hearts and discerning minds to make decisions that are best suited for all our residents and our visitors. And Father, we ask that you protect everyone here and bring us ever closer to each other and to you. All this we ask in the name of your Son, our Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.

Amen. If you'd please join me in the pledge of allegiance. Madam Clerk, if you would please conduct a roll call.

Mayor Gaylor. Present. Mayor Pro Tem Leakes. Present. Councilman Boyette. Present. Councilwoman Taylor. Present. And Councilman White.

All right, those president accounted for appreciate it. And both of the council ladies were not able to be with us this evening. We look forward to seeing both of you again very soon. All right, we will move for an adoption of the agenda. I believe that there was a request from clerk to remove item nine dot two, as there are some additional additional applications that actually were as we're learning how to how our website is built. We want to make sure that we're able to review all of the applications that have come in. So that's a good thing. We have more than we thought we had. So that's a good thing. So we will strike nine dot two. I don't believe there was anything else. Mr. Lewiston?

No, sir, Mr. Mayor.

So with that, I would entertain a motion to adopt the agenda as modified to remove item nine dot two. So moved. Questions are made. Is there a second?

Second.

Questions are made and properly seconded to adopt the agenda with the modification of removing item 9.2. We will vote electronically if possible. I presume. It's not.

I had my computer restarted.

All in favor, if you please raise your hand. All opposed, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes unanimously. All right. With that, we'll move into recognitions and presentations. As everyone is familiar, we do try and make sure that we hear from each of our appointed boards at a regular interval so that all of council is aware of what all is going on as well as the public. And that way, council can ask questions, make suggestions, and just kind of be able to see the folks that are volunteering their time and talents and oftentimes treasure as well to be able to serve the people of the city of Goldsboro. So with that, Mr. Livingston, I'll turn it over to you if you would start us off on item 4.1.

Yes, we have Amanda here with our Travel and Tourism Department, and I think she's going to give our presentation.

M is great. Okay. There you go.

All right. Good evening, y'all. Good evening. All right.

happy birthday late.

They should be pulling it up.

This is that moment of awkwardness where you just have to kill some time.

I'll ask one while you're on. Do you remember roughly how long you have been on travel and tourism now? As long as I've been attending meetings, you've been on there. So longer than my term in office and now you serve as the chairperson for it.

Yep. Too far? Yeah, I think I know. Okay, there we go.

All right, okay.

All right, so I'm giving the presentation for the Goldsboro Tourism Council, for the city council, because I'm the chairperson of the city board. All right, our missions and goals is to enrich the quality of life and to encourage economic development by promoting travel and tourism in our community. Develop Goldsboro and Wayne County as a unique travel destination. Goldsboro Tourism Council, we meet every fourth Wednesday jointly with the Wayne County Tourism Development Authority in the Travel and Tourism Conference Room located on 119 North Center Street in downtown Goldsboro. all right the goldsboro tourism council the goldsboro tourism council is appointed by city council and is comprised of three hoteliers three citizens interested in tourism and three ex-officio officers Wayne County Tourism Development Authority is appointed by the county commissioners and is comprised of 12 members. A third of members must collect occupancy tax. Half of the members must be active in the promotion of travel and tourism and to fix your seats. That's always a difficult part. Partners, visitors, and economic growth. The Travel and Tourism Office partners with area hotels, attractions, event organizers, festivals, and other visitor-related organizations to promote Goldsboro as a premier destination. Through targeted marketing campaigns and strategic programs, the office works to increase business travel, leisure travel, sports tourism, agritourism, and military-related travel. These efforts enhance the visitor experience while growing tourism economic impact on Goldsboro and the surrounding areas. Quarterly E's newsletter, we keep local and travelers connected and informed of seasonal events in Goldsboro and Wayne County. Our newsletter has over 14,000 subscribers. Visitors can sign up for our newsletter by visiting our website. Recent story and an ad in Our State magazine, the country fruit stand number two was highlighted in the July issue of Our State. We took the opportunity to place an ad for the North Carolina Freedom Fest to generate even more interest in the visit to Compsboro. We love jet noise, so I love jet noise. Our jet noise billboard is located on heavily traveled 70 West between Goldsboro and Raleigh, targeting locals and transmits traffic. It has weekly impressions of 88,654 people. The 71st Dillard Goldsboro Alumni Homecoming. 1.5K of visitors to downtown on May 23rd for the parade. Over 1,100 room nights and visitors were from Virginia, Georgia, North Carolina. Over a million dollars worth of economic impact to Goldsboro and Wayne County and they come faithfully every year. What we do, we host travel and media writers, maintain visitor center, sell Totally Fly and I Love Jet Noise merchandise, and personnel visits to welcome centers. And other things that we do is we attend legislative receptions, congressional visits to promote the tourism industry, participate in travel-related trade shows, coordinate quarterly civilian tours with Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, and facilitate hotelier familiarization tours. As you can see, I'm in that picture. All right, what we do is we distribute visitor guides, brochures, and flyers to 13 welcome centers, area visitor centers, museums, attractions, and other tourism offices. Members of the North Carolina Travel Industry Association board member, North Carolina Coast host board member, and North Carolina Associated of Festivals and Events board member. We promote attractions. And then we promote festivals and events like Freedom Fest, Wings Over Wayne, which that will happen next year, Fireworks Over Wayne, Goldsboro Dilla Alumni, Center Street Jam, and Goldsboro Fan Fest, just to name a few. The results, domestic visitors to Wayne County spent $207 million in 2024, a 2.3 increase over 2023. 1,273 jobs in Wayne County were directly attributed to travel and tourism. State and local tax revenues from travel to Wayne County totaled to $13.72 million. 2025 numbers will be available at the end of August. Recruit and promote sporting events like AJGA, soccer, and the USTA. And Amanda is up.

You're welcome. Alicia and I are going to tag team the next little bit of the presentation, if that's OK. So good evening, Mayor, Council. We wanted to take a few minutes to talk to you guys about the USTA Championship. We've had the opportunity to host the North Carolina Singles Championship in Goldsboro since 2013. To give you an idea, this is the estimated economic impact for this event last year. There were 725 players, estimated 300 room nights, depending on how their schedule was and where they were traveling from. $479,000 of visitor spending generated, and $297,600 was hotel revenue. which created $17,865 in occupancy tax, which, as you're familiar with, is what goes to fund travel and tourism. We were scheduled to host the championship again in 2026. In October, the courts were showing some wear. but they got much worse after the very harsh winter that we had this year. Just to give you an idea, this is what some of the courts look like. So that's Herman Park, and that's the Goldsboro Event Center. And the Goldsboro Event Center is clay.

Are all of the courts that go through event center that are hard courts, are they pickleball now? Yes.

And that brings me to part of the presentation at the bottom. No, no, no, no. I just was going to say that kind of that hinders us from being able to play on them. Okay, so back in US, USTA did a site visit and in April and when they came in and saw the courts, they were concerned about the player safety. On July 21, Kellyanne, Felicia, Parks and Recreation, myself, Travel and Tourism, we all had a Zoom call with USTA. And it was decided that it would not be best to host the championship here this year due to our court conditions. USTA advised us to take a break from hosting this year to see if we could fix the courts at Herman Park and the Goldsboro Event Center. While our existing courts are in need of repair, we like the total number of desired courts to continue to be competitive. In the past, we've been able to use some of the high school courts, but some of them are now in even worse shape than our courts. We also had reached out to use other courts in Wilton and Kenton to also help us gain the amount of courts that we need. And then, Mayor, to what you were asking about the pickleball courts, per guidelines, they cannot be used for championship play. Is there anything you want to add before I go?

I'll just add on to that. So what Amanda was just saying about the pickleball lines, that is a USTA rule. It's not a Felicia rule or Amanda rule, but that's a USTA rule where you can only have tennis lines on the tennis courts for professional play. and that also comes into with some of the high school courts that we've been using locally because pickleball is growing and you know it's out in the community I know some of the high schools they're considering putting down like permanent lines on their tennis courts which For high school play, I believe it's fine, but when you look at professional, like USTA play, the tournament that we host, those courts will be pulled out of our inventory once those pickleball lines get pulled on them, which again, going back to what Amanda was saying, that was why we were looking at expanding our coverage into Wilson and Kenton with getting more courts there as well.

While USTA is a great tournament that brings in a lot of positive tourism and economic impact, which you guys we saw on the slide, the courts also get more than just use that one time a year. Citizens use them and the high schools play their regionals. I know at least at the Hermann Park courts. Is that right? Yes.

How many schools have, if you know off the top of your head, how many schools, charter, private, public, all, have Herman Park designated as their home courts? It's a bunch.

It's a bunch. We have two for sure. And then over the years, we've gotten others to come and play as well. So we're up to five. And then sometimes even it'll spill over to the clay courts at Goldsboro Event Center, especially if like if Goldsboro High School, if they have a home match. And we've been able to finagle it, I'll say, with the two schools that have been there for a minute. Goldsboro High School is their home court. And then other schools will come in. And depending upon, because it's 10 courts. So depending upon the size, they can actually be out there at the same time playing matches. And that has happened. But yeah, they do get a lot of use by the public in general.

Please. Back in my day, East Wayne, that was our home courts as well. At one point, Wayne Community College was. Of course, Wayne Community College has had to abandon their courts. Right. And, I mean, they're so expensive to maintain.

Right. And so that's what's also happened is with Wayne Community College abandoning their courts, some of the schools that were playing there at Herman Park.

Sounds like a need for a partnership conversation, doesn't it?

And in addition to what we were just saying about the general usage, we also put in an additional bid for 27 and 28 to add not only the singles tournament again, but also we went after a juniors tournament that's in July. And as we know, July doesn't really have a lot going on. So we were hoping to kind of add that into the mix as well.

Hotels.

So during the July joint meeting of the Goldsboro Tourism Council and the Wayne County Tourism Development Authority meeting, our board discussed drafting a letter of support to send to USTA, letting them know that the tourism board is committed to trying to find a solution. And it would be great if we could include some type of support from the council also. Even with the court repair, there's no guarantee that we will be able to host the USTA in years to come, especially like we were talking about due to some of the school courts and other courts in the area that's outside of our control. So we will also be looking to see if there are some other sporting events that we could host as well.

So right now, Miss Felicia, what's what would that look like from the council? Because obviously this is this in this conversation here, council is not read up and prepared to be able to discuss any sort of budget commitment. Right. And I don't want I'm not one that asks for empty words. So is this a conversation where that you feel like you could come back with some sort of idea of what a what verbally saying that we're committed to trying to find a solution, what that actually looks like monetarily, operationally, just logistically, even I mean, the courts don't repair themselves overnight. So is there a little bit of homework that we could do on this, and then bring it back to council?

I've done a little bit of homework where following up from meeting with USTA, you know, they gave me four tennis court contractors that they had worked with recently to understand the USTA guidelines. And so I've been able to get in contact with a couple of them. and so they've given me some prices and timelines and the biggest thing with the tennis court repair whether you're constructing or repairing you want to do it what they consider a mild climate so like in the fall of the year or in spring because you want temperature to be you know at least above i can't remember if it's 50 or 60 degrees on the steady on a steady pace, but also you don't want to complete the courts in November and then you have December and January because you're pretty much killing yourself because the courts haven't had a chance to settle in. And so, like I said, I've just spoken with a couple of them, but the range is between 150 and 250, and that's for repair. But repair should last a good seven years.

So they're thinking dig out cracks and refill? dig out cracks refill layer layer what they call like this it's a new poly mesh overlay obviously i played eastern way and then grew up at the country club courts and myself and joanne logan are probably the two people left in this town that know how to work the watering systems out out there so you get stuck in a brand new ground call

That's my question, Mr. Mayor. Even with the repair that we may do out at Herman Park, are we going to install some type of water system out there to keep them in the heat of the month so we can try to alleviate or at least lessen the cracking that go on? Because I know we water the courts out at the municipal golf course.

Right. Well, we watered them because those are clay courts. The hard courts, we really don't need to water. The issue we ran into with the hard courts, well, first off, we had them redone 13 years ago. And by tennis court standards, we should be trying to get them resurfaced every five to seven years. We didn't do that. For whatever reason that's in the past, we did not go back and resurface the courts. But similar to what Amanda just said, we had a very, very harsh winter. Those cracks were not there last October. Those cracks were not there last October. You had like some spider cracks. And even speaking with the tennis court contractors, it's not just us. It's other places with hard courts. They're dealing with this harsh, really harsh winter that we just had because they said what happens is water gets into the little fine spider cracks. and then they freeze, so they expand, water melts, contract, expand, contract, expand, contract, and that's the result of it. But speaking with both contractors, one contractor has, what is it, he has a special mesh fiber where he has like a copper, he has a patent on it, or the company has a patent on it. But I know one of the contractors, they actually did our pickleball court sports, And they were completed back in 2017. And if you go out there, you'll see where there are no cracks like that. And it's because of this mesh fiber that they put down. And speaking with the contractors, I'm like, okay, so this will last. One to two years, I mean, just give it to me. They're like, no, no, no. They said, it should last you at least five to seven years. They would like to say 10, but keeping themselves in check, they say it'll last five to seven years. And then of course, regular tennis maintenance. You should be looking to try to get them resurfaced, repainted every five to seven years. But as far as filling in the cracks, that should last us a while.

And then my next question, if I may. Please go. How many courts do you actually need to run that tennis tournament?

For the singles tournament, because it's growing, let me see, 10, 16, it's at least 30. It's quite a few courts. Excuse me, because when we first got it, when we first got it, it was Herman Park, Goldsboro Event Center, several of the high schools in the area, Southern Wayne, Eastern Wayne, C.B. Acock, Walnut Creek, and then we expanded to Green Ridge Racquet Club and Green Central High School. And then the tournament grew. So keep all those in mind. The tournament grew over the years. So then we added Bill Fay and Kenston, those tennis courts there. And so like I said, each year, the participation, like I said, we've been hosting for 13 years. And so the numbers that Amanda put up where she's like 700 and some players, when we first started, it was less than 400. So it's grown over the years, and each year we try to bring in more courts. So with us already using Bill Fay in Kenston, which, thank you, Kenston-Lenore Parks and Recreation, we're reaching out to other entities in Kenston to see if we could use their courts as well.

We reached out in Johnson County.

have not reached out to Johnson County. We did reach out to Wilson. And the other thing to keep in mind, specifically with the singles, we need three courts at a location, the way they play their matches. So you need at least three. Having one or two courts on the site really doesn't, we can't count that. So anything more than three is good, whether it's three, six, 10, 12, because the way they play their matches, even though it's singles, it's a team play. So you need three courts for them to get a match in.

Isn't there a mileage too that they try and kind of keep it within as well? Yeah.

And also what Amanda was saying, which is true, USTA, they like to try to keep it within a certain mile radius, drive radius. So even though we were sending people 20, 25 minutes out in a drive radius, if the same tournament was held in like the Triangle area, which it had previously been held there several years back, They could be going to a court that's five miles up the road, but because of the triangle traffic, it's still going to take them 20, 25 minutes to get there. So they try to look at that time span it gets them to get from one location to another.

So bringing this back to a board conversation, bringing this back to a board conversation, is this something that I was not able to be at the last goals for tourism tourism Council meeting and apologize is this something that we would like to bring up you know at that board also see if there's a conversation to be had with any other potential partner and I mean I think there's got to be a return on investment here just like we looked at with the the lights out of Brian multi sports I think that there's I think it's got to be justifiable, right? But if you're generating $17,000 in occupancy tax on a single tournament for a single year, then you can see how that on its own, that in theory could pay for a thing over the length of time that we're talking about for this amount of investment. but that's not really the purpose of this particular conversation and i don't want to you know pressure council into one specific corner on this one what is the next step to be able to either do something with the goldsboro tourism council to be able to get some sort of resolution or specific requests or some sort of specific funding piece um what is the what would the conversation look like to talk to some of the other schools and see if there's any viability for them in some small way to be able to, I think it at least helps us justify it if we can say these are the designated home courts for the next five years for schools A, B, and C. Is there anything here that we can kind of go towards so that we could put a reasonable ask on the table for counsel? And that was a lot of word salad, I apologize.

Well, I know that USTA was kind of looking for us to come back to them. But within the next two weeks, maybe with with some type of And can anything be done in it so what does that look like just because they are in the process of looking at the bids for 2728 like they were going to start today we're like we have a council meeting can. Can you let us talk to council and just update them? So they are going to be making a decision within the next two to three weeks as to who they're going to award the 27 and 28 bids to.

Obviously, I'm the orchestrator of the meeting and I'm one vote. You should have a vote be called. Ultimately, it's the will of council. Our city manager is sitting here. He can kind of guide us on the finances and things like that. I would like to be able to do something, if we're doing this in the spirit of of heads and beds, then I would like to be able to see how there's a potential way to partner with GTC, again, if there is. Now, GTC also just made a huge investment in Bryan Multisports, so I'm just not waltzed on me. But I'd like to be able to see what the finances could look like, and also, this wasn't part of the brief, per se. An actual vote on something wasn't necessarily the, so it would've been a new business item, not a presentation and a general update. But that being said, council ultimately controls the agenda and controls the meeting. If it's the will of the council to take action or if it's the advice of the manager to take action, certainly willing to do so. I have a couple more questions. Please go ahead.

So I was calling around other cities as well to see if some of the cities even have private owners that keep up their tennis courts. So I wrote down a couple questions from this weekend in my conversations with them. Number one, let's talk, I was told roughly that the estimates we would be looking at would probably be anywhere between the 200 to 250 range. How many courts are we talking at between the two to 250? What kind of income is going to be needed in additional to maintain the courts? Are there any grants available? Because I do know that this would have qualified for that COVID grant. We could have used that money on this. So are there any grants available? And I myself am like the mayor. We need to look at partnerships. If the county schools are using the courts as well, we need to look at what is the county willing to contribute, the county schools, and see what the partnership would look like. And then my final question for you to get back with me on, is I was observing your stats when I was going through the packet this weekend. I'd like to know from you ladies, how do you come up with your formula to get the revenue that is attained from a tournament, okay? So if you're telling me this tournament made us $479,000, how do you guys formulate the outcome of that tournament?

These numbers are based off the visit NC numbers that come out every year. So these were based off of 24's what they estimate, now of course this is across the state, but that is what they say that a day-tripper would spend in a day and what an overnight individual would spend. And then as far as the room nights, We just basically estimated half of the players using the ring line. I wish there was a 100% true formula, but this is kind of what I've used for the last 10 years, is what Visit NC has put out year over year.

So my direction to the staff was to go ahead and start doing the research put in the part of grant application seek out the recommendations from the recreation resource consultants there for our region up in Raleigh we we have a new master plans that's 25 points right there this is all about maximizing the points on her application. I can you know look over and help them with that application. It's very competitive but you know the max on is $500,000. It's a dollar for dollar match but we can use travel and tourism funds as a match. We can use other things as a match. We can use any kind of labor but either way It's a need that the community has and it's been something that's been, you know, it's been neglected, you know, for a long time. So, and I think it's time that we at least apply for those grants.

I know as long as I've been a hotelier in this industry, we have had USTA every year. I can speak from the hotelier.

And then also going back to the questions that you were asking, so touching on what the city manager just said as far as different grants and things. So with the PARTF grant, that's the Parks Recreation Trust Fund grant, they award that in May. And again, as Amanda was saying, looking at a tournament in July in the USTA, the singles league championship that we usually host is in October. So yes, there are grants out there. And going for that grant, that would be great. We get it. Getting that grant, we will not have the courts ready in time, definitely for July. Because you're looking at a good two to three months to try to get everything as far as finished. And with Herman Park, there are 10 courts. and amanda was showing you pictures so you had cracks you know you had what i what i called a big crack but some people may be like oh just step over it but you have cracks like that you know throughout the courts in herman park and it's 10 courts and that's why i've i've already reached out to a couple of tennis court contractors and that's you know the range of 1.59 to 2.52. You know, that's what we're looking at with the prices they've given me. And I reached out to a third one, you know, just to see what they say as well. But they're both saying the same thing as far as what I said earlier. We had a really harsh winter. I mean, and unfortunately, it did that to our courts, but it also did that to other courts, not only in Wayne County, but in surrounding areas as well.

I'm a big fan of the sport. Played it my entire life until the last few years when I decided to give my time to other things. If there is a articulable ask, then we can look at something later in the agenda if there is something this evening or at the beginning of in the next agenda packet. Now, as far as I'm willing to stay on the record, I absolutely support looking for a solution, period. I'm not willing to guarantee you the finances where my vote is right now, but I'm absolutely interested if that is enough to get us to the next meeting, that for me, I can go along with. I just, I would hate for us to, on the spur of the moment, when we try to be so methodical about things, to say, all right, let's put a quarter million bucks not to exceed contract out there, and we don't even have a contractor or vendor in front of us. So if that is sufficient,

record, right? Yeah, that's a quarter.

No, that's a total for the 10 courts.

That's a total cost for the 10 courts. Yeah. Which is frankly a lot less than what resurfacing. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I was, I'm sorry, but let me just say, I was very happily surprised at the prices they were giving me because I just knew it was going to be so much more, but The thing that they did say to me is, you know, again, that very harsh winter is what caused the cracks to come in. They said, but your base is solid, so we're not talking about a complete reconstruction. We're not talking about having to tear everything up and start fresh. We're talking about going in, fixing the cracks, and putting down the surfacing.

It is a huge amenity that the city of Goldsboro provides. I know it draws a lot of people in. I live a block and a half from those courts. I see how used they are. Would a motion simply instructing our Parks and Recreation staff and city manager's office to explore any potential funding partnerships with the desire to fix the courts, if financially possible, is that a sufficient motion at this time? I think so.

I we can certainly reach out to USDA and and give them an update as to the council's being open to looking at on trying to find a solution and just see what they say and go from there. I think it would be a positive letting them know that we did come before you tonight and that you share in concern as well and we just need a little more time.

So would it be the pleasure of council then to entertain a motion instructing Parks and Recreation staff and city manager's office to explore funding opportunities to make court repairs and if a financially viable option is found to please present that at our next council meeting. Yes. all right so i'll make that motion is there a second second all right emotionally made improperly seconded to whatever i just said on the record it sounded i meant what i said but i don't want to have to repeat it we got there you go thank you all right is there any debate on that motion all right all in favor which i guess please got one question yes sir within us trying to find a solution and

ahead for the court because I'm in favor of doing that because we're preparing a court I also want to make sure that we explore because Wayne County Public Schools use those courts we need to put that into our solution about going to Wayne County Public Schools because they use it as a home home court and they use that I will make sure that we include that into the conversation

I have reached out to them about this issue and to Dr. Richard. I'm waiting to hear back from him on that.

That's all I have.

I certainly agree with the councilman's sentiment and thoughts. Is there any further debate on that? All right. All in favor vote by hand or

I have everybody but you.

Really? Well, I'm in favor. All in favor, please vote electronically if possible, and I will figure out why I'm no longer logged into the meeting. But I vote in favor. I promise y'all, I had clicked present and voting.

is Phylicia you guys are doing a phenomenal job I just want to re emphasize how important and how advantageous it would be if we had our own nonprofit established for for your department there are people out there that would give if that opportunity arose. So if we could look at that, we've talked about it in the past that we would look at it, but there are givers that are available to give to something like that if we could go ahead and establish a 501c3.

I think our last slide was just questions.

Any more, any other questions?

In regards to the presentation in general.

This is this has been really good. I'm glad that there and I will give you the Florida. I'm glad that we are. Again, we're trying to do this four times a year have every commission in front of us to be able to discuss what issues are relevant to the board and allow the board to bring things to council or just some provide an update depending on what the thing is. But it's good when there's actually some meeting some substance conversation. It's obvious that the council has been doing a lot of work over these last couple years and really trying to double down on a strategy to increase tourism and heads and beds and really leverage parks and recreation, which I view as one of our strongest assets. Any other? Hearing none. Thank you all so much.

Thank you.

All right, next we will hear from our Historic District Commission. Mr. Livingston, if you have any preface. If not, we'll invite them forward.

Fritz come up here and give his presentation. I think Paul is a staff for that. I think he might be helping out some later.

All right, cool. Evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, Council. I'm Fritz Knack. I am representing the, nope, that's the wrong button. Oh, it is, cool. I am representing the City of Goldsboro's Historic District Commission this evening. City of Goldsboro's Historic District Commission, we meet the first Tuesday of every month at 5.30 p.m. in room 206, the City Hall Annex, which is the large conference room. Our commission staff liaison is Paul Saylors, who is that Z stands for zoning. He is a certified zoning officer, platter one. I have to check into that. The Historic District Commission is a local board that works to identify, protect, and promote the City of Goldsboro's historic and cultural resources. Ours was created in 1983 to create the Historic Preservation Overlay Zoning District, the Historic District, in 1984 and certified by the U.S. Department of the Interior's National Park Service in 1985. So our Historic District is both locally and federally certified. The commission is composed of nine civic members, seven regular members, and two alternates. What does the HDC do? With its efforts to promote the economic, cultural, educational, and general welfare of its residents, the HDC is granted the authority by the NC General Assembly to designate, that is recommend, local historic districts and landmarks for designation, to manage preservation standards, which is to create and maintain preservation standards for the historic district and landmark properties. We conduct quasi-judicial hearings to review proposed exterior changes to designated properties through a process called certificates of authority, COA. And we approve those certificates of, I'm sorry, certificates of appropriate, that's not authority, We approve those COAs, which is an official document required for exterior changes, additions, or demolitions on properties located within the local historic district or its designated landmarks. The purpose of the, I want to make sure I don't get carried away here, I have an extra slide that's not showing up. Our purpose is to safeguard the heritage of the city by preserving any district or landmark that embodies important elements of its cultural history, architectural history, or prehistory. We promote the use and conservation of such district landmarks for the education, pleasure, and enrichment of the residents of the city, county, and state. We encourage historically sensitive rehabilitation and restoration to stimulate business and enhance the environmental quality of our neighborhoods. And we enhance the attractiveness of the city and promote the historic harmony of style, form, color, proportion, texture, and materials within the historic district overlay district. For certificates of appropriateness, both major and minor, as of August 3rd, we had 12 major COAs. Four were after the effect, which is, while it's an improvement, is still not quite where we want to be. Of those 12, there were 12 approved, there was one tabled, there was one denied, and there was one withdrawn. And then there were nine minor COAs approved by staff. The slide that's missing is I mentioned that that that for after the fact is still not exactly where we want to be. There will be a mailer going out this fall to all property owners in the district as a reminder that it is in the historic district preservation overlay. Some folks are not aware that they live or work in an overlay district and don't get the paperwork filed. Current initiatives. We are working on updating historic district design standards to fall into compliance with General Statutes 16-D, the August 2020 update. We must frame preservation district provisions as standards rather than the guidelines we've been using. In-house by staff and approved by the HDC and City Council in 2026. That is working towards becoming a certified local government. The benefits include that we're eligible for some grants from the State Historic Preservation Office, which can do updated architectural surveys, architectural plans or feasibility studies, national register nominations, or a preservation plan, which is part of the Elevate Goldsboro Comprehensive Plan. We also celebrate the city's cultural diversity and preserve and enhance our historic assets throughout historic districts, cultural activities, local historic marker programs, awards, events, and public outreach. The city of Goldsboro as a certified local government. CLG, in 1980, Congress amended the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966 to require each state to establish a procedure by which local governments may be certified to participate in the national framework of historic preservation programs. This requirement has become the certified local government program. There are over 45 such places in North Carolina. Local governments that qualify for certification must have an active and legally adequate historic preservation commission and must meet the federal requirements for certification. A local government must, in order to do this, enforce legislation, designation, and protection of historic properties. The commission must comprise qualified historic preservation members. We have to maintain an inventory of historic properties. Public participation in local historic preservation programs, workshops, lectures, tours, that kind of thing. Participate in the national register process and annual CLG training for staff and commissioners. So there's a continuing education requirement as well. So we're making real good progress on this. The comprehensive inventory was done back in somewhere around 1983 or so. It needs a little bit of updating, but we have one. The information on the local designated historic district and landmarks, we don't actually have any landmarks yet. We've been talking about Union Station among other places that might make sense. Ordinance creating the local commission, that was done back when we were founded. We have rules of procedures. What we are still missing at this point is that the design standards used by the commission must be up to date and by that in particular we mean that the guidelines we're using need to be converted to standards. We have resumes of the commissioners on file and we have minutes and other descriptions of the commission's past and current activities. The steps of the application process are within 45 days of receipt of a completed application, the SHPO will respond to the applicant's designated staff with comments on the application. The SHPO response letter will contain a copy of certification agreement specifying the duties to be delegated to the local government. And the SHPO will forward the application to the National Park Service, US Department of Interior, a recommendation for certification and request for NPS concurrence. When the Park Service concurs with the SHPO recommendation, it will notify the SPHO in writing and send a copy of that letter to the certified local government. We will then be considered certified as of the date of that Park Service letter. That's what I got. Other questions?

Thank you for its so it was just for me the just thinking about agendas and coloring your calendaring things as things work their way up through the actual commission when do you anticipate having some in front of Council for Council to vote on. They can the November, December or somewhere in the fall. I would all what do you think where are we off. November. Okay.

Okay. It's a pile of work. And then you know, it's Paul's been been working diligently on it for a while. Just because I have the podium right now. I gotta say he's awesome. I mean, you got a great planning department anyway, but but Paul is just doing a really good job for us. He has since we got him.

Thank you. Council any comments, questions? Hearing none.

I do. So as far as all the historic houses, the ones who really need some repair, how long do we allow them to stand before we engage on those houses or dwellings?

The buildings that are falling apart or otherwise having problems really fall more under the enforcement arm. uh and that's not really where we come in if somebody comes forward and says uh hey golly i want to do this then we approve or disapprove or make recommendations or whatever but but the the buildings that are that are not in good shape that's really just we we only act on things that are brought to us and and that would be an enforcement action handled by that part of the planning department mr livison do you mind touching on that one it is a relevant question obviously

It is and I think overall. It is a code enforcement housing inspection issue those kind of things. There's also that awareness issue too and when people come in to buy something are they aware of real estate agents aware that this is the historic district preservation and things to use.

So as far as the length of time something can remain a dilapidated structure, at what point does it fall into something that would become, that would get on a demolition list for the city?

It usually has to be over 50% dilapidated to be even considered condemnable. But it really kind of various in case to case because sometimes it might be a portion of the property can be repaired. Otherwise it might be something that's a little bit more significant may be a foundation issue or roof issue that's really much more critical to the overall wellness of the structure.

Else when did that at all.

Kind of, sort of. But I will say that we do have some houses that are in our historic district that are in dire need of either repair or to be torn down. And I would just like to know what we're doing to rectify some of that.

That's where you get Paul and in it because Paul and I've had some conversations about some of them are in there some of them are on the national registry which presents a different kind of challenge all together. Other ones. They're working with the property owners that they're making slight repairs that the city from a state from a statute perspective if someone is doing minimal work on the House. it really makes it hard for us to really kind of take any kind of significant enforcement action unless there's a real threat to the public health and safety. But we can work on the ones that are obviously in a really bad shape, and that's what we've been doing. I don't know if, Paul, if that's a pretty accurate assessment of things, but if you want to share anything, feel free.

if you know my will yield the floor councilman Taylor and then we'll come back around question.

So something that you guys are talking about maybe think about I had a constituent who came to me and she purchased a home in the historic district and did not know it was in the historic district until after she purchased it so what kind of conversations do you have or have you had any at the historic district commission meetings concerning notification of new or potential property owners that their home is in the historic district so they can take that into account when they're considering purchasing it.

Oh indeed, that's part of what the mailer we're sending out is intended to address for the people that already exist there. We have had conversations in the past with the downtown development department to make sure they're letting people know, particularly businesses, because that's mostly who they deal with. And as part of the building certification process, This isn't really official, but I am strongly of the opinion that if your contractor doesn't tell you you're in the historic district commission and you're going to need permission to do some stuff, you need a better contractor.

So I'm speaking about, say, for example, I'm new to town and I'm looking at a home that I want to purchase. So I'm assuming that it's the real estate agent's duty to let them know

Well, and I've never been through realtor training or any of that, but yeah, I would expect any professional working in the area or in that field of expertise to know to ask those questions and to be aware of that kind of stuff. I mean, realtors deal with the housing covenants all the time. Why wouldn't they ask that?

Well, what I'm saying is, have you y'all ever had that conversation in your meetings when there's someone who's purchased a home and they were not notified. Like what does that person do? Like if they're not from Goldsboro, they purchase a home here and they're totally blindsided by, they get in there in their home or they buy a home and their home has been

altered away from yeah off the top of my head I can't think of any I'd have to you know look through the minutes to find any but but really ignorance of the law isn't an excuse and our hands would still be tied I mean if but whether they knew it was coming or not if they're trying to do something that's in violation of the the guidelines or standards we'd have to stop it

So as the historic district commission, is there a way that you think that perhaps there could be something that goes out to local real estate agencies just reminding them to please notify?

That's a really good idea. I'll get with Paul after this and make sure that local realtors are on the same mailing list. That should be pretty easily done.

I had someone that came in from another state and bought a home and she had a mess.

I have one more question. Yes, sir, please. So I know right there at Taste of Fries, the corner of John and Am, there's a Taste of Fries right across the street. It used to be a Ward's Packet Store or BJ's Packet Store. Okay. And they're both in the historic district. How do we treat retail that's in the historic district?

It's just another business. We're concerned really only with the exterior. And as long as they're maintaining the historic guidelines and meeting those requirements, I'm not sure I understand the question.

So somebody who buys Tasty Freeze up down the corner, can they go in and redo the outside? That's what I'm asking.

That's probably more of a staff question. Paul, if you don't mind. We'll put you on the spot. I didn't mean to put you on the spot.

We'll give a more accurate answer. I mean, there are different things depending on whether it's new construction or old construction, whether it whether it's a building that contributes to the historicity of downtown or not. So that so there are a few, a few places that things wiggle.

Yes, all the buildings are treated the same on even local landmarks the landmark could be a cultural. Space in the city. But whether it's commercial retail residential all the buildings within the historic district are treated the same we try to treat them the same as much as yes, sir.

These are good conversations. That's the point of this is for us to be able to ask because these are things that we're learning as well. And the staff are the ones that are the experts. Council, any other questions for Historic District Commission? Ritz, anything else? Mr. Saylors, anything else? Perfect. Well, hearing none, y'all, thank you so much. Again, appreciate the volunteerism. I didn't get to say this to Judith before she left, but y'all are volunteering your time even more than we are, so thank you for being here. Glad to do it.

Thanks.

All right, next we will move to item 4.3, ABC Board Presentation. Good evening.

Good evening. Mayor, council members, glad to be back again. Thank you for allowing me to be here. When I got a phone call about or set up the distribution, I was asked could I make a few comments and I'm always open to that because we want our story told in Wayne County and what we're doing because some people Think negative of the ABC system. There's a lot of things we try to do to improve things. So with that, again, I thank you. I want to share a few highlights of our system and how it works and the number of ABC outlets operating within the city of Goldsboro. The Wayne County ABC Board has been a long and meaningful history. Local ABC boards were first authorized by the 1937 Tarleton Control Act, giving counties the ability to vote on liquor sales. Wayne County did not hold its referendum, though, until April 4th of 1964. On that day, 5,859 residents voted for ABC stores. 5152 voted against it. So you can see it was close in 1964. Following that vote, Wayne County held its first retail sales on June 15 1964. This November, the citizens of Wayne County will once again vote on a referendum, this time to determine whether the sale of beer, wine, and mixed beverage will be allowed countywide. I encourage everyone to stay informed and participate in that important decision. Whether you're for or against, be aware of what's going on.

So if you don't mind, I'll interrupt you just for a second. So right now there's places all over the county where you can purchase. What does it mean? So right now you have to be within one of the municipalities, right?

It has to be in one of the municipalities, Fremont, Mount Olive, Goldsboro, Walnut Creek. Outside of that, say all these used dollar generals, for example, that are opening up, they cannot sell alcohol. we get calls every day about say out towards seven springs wanting to open a convenience store that sells beer and wine they can't do it so we've been dry also we get calls from restaurants that want to come in outside of the city, but they can't because they can't serve mixed beverage. So and we're one of the last standing as I would say, around us that is like this in the Johnson County, Duplin County, Wilson County, Wilson area. Okay, so I just say stay informed and participate in that important decision everyone. The Wayne County ABC Board serves the citizens of Wayne County by providing a pleasant shopping experience while controlling the sale of spirituous liquor and enforcing the laws and rules of North Carolina. Today, all of our ABC stores are self-service stores. I don't know if any of you remember, but used to you went to a store when it first opened in Wayne County and you walked up to the counter, placed your order, and they brought it to you. All now are self-service, offering a wide variety of brands for customers to choose from. Wayne County currently operates five ABC stores and one mixed beverage store. Of these, three ABC stores and the mixed beverage store are located here in the city limits of Goldsboro. Our newest store just opened in Rosewood, or your newest store, in the Rosewood community on May 4th, 2026. In approximately 60 days, we will open a new distribution complex and office in the business park off Pate Town Road inside the city. The city of Goldsboro also has a significant number of locations holding permits issued by the North Carolina ABC Commission. As of the 29th of July, Goldsboro had 50 mixed beverage locations inside the city limits. They had 51 convenience store locations, 20 retail sales locations, 12 non-mixed beverage restaurants, and 23 additional locations. These would include grocery stores, pharmacies, and venues. And as of tonight's meeting now, several more locations or in the process of applying for permits within the city limits of Goldsboro. Our ABC law enforcement officers work diligently to ensure compliance. They attempt to inspect each permitted location in the city twice per calendar year. They also conduct investigations of illegal outlets inside the city limits, working closely with the Goldsboro Police Department. Since January 2026 this year, they've conducted five illegal operations and seized more than 1600 containers of alcohol. Illegal alcohol is not the only issue at these illegal outlets. They are synonymous for breeding other crimes such as drugs, gambling, prostitution, and even homicides. They are currently investigating other illegal outlets that they have received complaints on at present. The Wayne County ABC Board maintains a zero tolerance attitude toward the purchase of spirituous liquor by underage persons. This is at our liquor stores and these outlets in the city of Goldsboro. And we strive to provide our employees with the training necessary to keep the spirituous liquor out of the hands of minors. This is a responsibility that we take seriously and is central to our mission. In addition to regulating alcohol sales, we provide a valuable service to the citizens of Wayne County by generating revenue for our local governments. I believe that you've got that chart. I'll look down, I think, just a couple slides. Okay. Let's see, let me get back on the trash here. The Wayne County ABC Board is self-sufficient and operates as a separate entity from the Wayne County government. Tonight I want to share what we do for the community. We spent $4,779,995 in fiscal year 25-26. as you can see on the chart 323 349 went to distributions to raleigh for bailment and surcharge our education programs in wayne county we gave 25 000 to the county of wayne got 225 000 city of goldsboro 188 775 city of mount olive 36 255 Wayne County Law Enforcement, $243,351. Wayne County Alcohol Rehab, $42,403. Department of Human Health, $11,921. And Department of Revenue, $119,211. Remaining revenues that we took in were used to purchase liquor, payrolls, repairs, build a new store, and our day-to-day expenses. So as you can see, A lot of money goes back in to Wayne County. Last year, the previous year, about $700 million went back into the state statewide. We're a part of that. These distributions demonstrate how the ABC system supports initial services, law enforcement, education, and local municipalities, such as the city of Goldsboro. The Wayne County ABC Board is comprised of five board members appointed by the Wayne County Board of Commissioners. Members serve three three-year terms and may serve up to three terms. The board employs a full-time general manager, which is myself, to oversee the day-to-day operations. Our board meets the third Wednesday of each month at 12 noon. If anybody were open to the to the public that wants to come. We invite all of you and the citizens of Goldsboro to follow us on our website which is WayneABC.com or on our Facebook page. We work hard to keep both platforms updated and informative. At this time, I'd like for the mayor to come forward and make a presentation of a distribution check in the amount of $86,211 to the city of Goldsboro.

We'll do this, and then we'll come back up here for any additional questions.

Again, we want to thank you, Mayor, council members, and the citizens of Goldsboro for your continued support of the Wayne County ABC Board. Our doors are always open to you, and we welcome any questions or conversations you may have at any time. I thank you for your time.

I do have the same question I ask you every single time. If anyone suspects an illegal operation in their neighborhood or something that they're suspicious of, how do they report it?

They can call the police department and report it, number one. They can call our office, and we'll turn them over to our ABC enforcement, and then they will take the information and work the case. Usually if it's in the city, and I think the chief can back this up, we work with your guys. In fact, I've got a sheet here I won't get into, but there's five locations his group has called our people on and they've worked together in a joint effort here on those outlets. So they can call our office or they can call the city of Goldsboro and they usually contact us or we work together. And I'm more than happy to.

Council, any other comments or questions regarding the ABC board?

And when we open our complex, I'd like for you all to come just like you did at the store and visit. See what's going on. Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a good night.

All right. Next, we'll move to item 4.4. If I can tap back. Saturday, we had an absolutely wonderful event over the Maxwell Center. We owe some people debts of gratitude, both those who are recognized as well as those who helped organize. And this proclamation is intended to do that. The Oldsboro Wayne Purple Heart Proclamation. Whereas the original Purple Heart, known as the Badge of Military Merit, is the oldest military decoration in the world in present use. And whereas the Purple Heart was established by General George Washington on August 7, 1782, during the Revolutionary War, as the first award made available to the common soldier to recognize outstanding valor or merit. And whereas following nearly 150 years of disuse, the Purple Heart was reestablished by the President of the United States on February 22, 1932. And whereas the Purple Heart is awarded to military and civilian members of the U.S. Armed Forces who are wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy and posthumously to the next of kin in the name of those who were killed in action or die of wounds received in action. And whereas the citizens of Goldsboro and Wayne County have great admiration and the utmost gratitude for all the men and women who have served their country in the armed forces. And whereas veterans have paid the high price for freedom by leaving their families and communities and placing themselves in harm's way for the good of all. And whereas many citizens of our city, county, and state have earned the Purple Heart as a result of being wounded while engaged in combat with enemy forces construed as a singularly meritorious act of essential service. Now therefore be it resolved the Goldsboro City Council and the Wayne County Board of Commissioners to hereby honor the service and sacrifice of our nation's men and women in uniform wounded or killed by the enemy while serving to protect the freedoms enjoyed by all Americans. Now therefore be it further proclaimed that jointly the Goldsboro City Council and the Wayne County Board of Commissioners commend the Board of Directors of the Goldsboro Wayne Purple Heart Foundation for honoring Purple Heart recipients at its annual banquet on August 1st, 2026 as a special tribute to those service members who have received the Purple Heart and the families of Purple Heart recipients who are deceased. Witness our hand in the seals of the city of Goldsboro and the county of Wayne, Goldsboro, North Carolina, this the fourth day of August 2026. And this was executed by Chairman Daughtry and by myself on behalf of the city of Goldsboro. Next, we'll move to item 4.5, one that is very close to our city manager, a U.S. Coast Guard birthday proclamation. Proclamation. Whereas the United States Coast Guard has a long and proud history of service to our nation, including in North Carolina from Base Elizabeth City and other points along our coast. And whereas the U.S. Coast Guard is dedicated to saving lives at sea and enforcing the nation's maritime laws. And whereas the U.S. Coast Guard is one of the oldest organizations of the federal government, and until the Navy Department was established in 1798, it served as the nation's only armed force afloat. And whereas the U.S. Coast Guard was established on August 4, 1790, when Congress authorized the formation of 10 vessels to enforce federal tariff and trade laws to prevent smuggling until the establishment of the U.S. Navy in 1798, the Coast Guard also maintained maritime navigational aids, including the nation's lighthouses, and inspected and licensed ships. and whereas initially known as the revenue maritime and marine cutter service the name was changed in nineteen fifteen to the u s coast guard and whereas the coast guard's forty thousand five hundred members insure our nation's maritime safety and have proudly served in every one of our nation's conflicts And whereas since 2003, the Coast Guard has operated as part of the Department of Homeland Security, serving as the nation's frontline agency for enforcing the nation's laws at sea, saving lives, protecting the marine environment, and guarding the nation's vast coastlines and ports. Now, therefore, be it proclaimed that the city that the Goldsboro City Council does hereby proclaim August 4th, 2026 as the United States Coast Guard birthday in North Carolina and commend disobservance to all citizens and witness whereof I have here to set my hand and affix a seal of the city of Goldsboro, North Carolina is the third day of August 2026. Right. All recognitions and presentations having been concluded, we will move to section five will move to item five dot one is a conditional zoning public hearing. Mr. Livingston, I'll yield to you and any member of planning commission.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The first conditional zoning to any department, excuse me, planning commissions really. Our first public hearing for conditional zoning request 0 to 26. You know, enterprises are good. Oh, enterprises. I'll have the health and our planning manager come up and give the brief.

Good evening, Mayor, City Council. Hope everybody's well. As Manager Livingston said, our first item of business will be for a conditional rezoning ZZ-02-26 Jitto Enterprises. This piece of property is located on the west side of Crawford Street between Elm Street and Olivia Lane. Here is a portion of the property. Let me give you a little bit of background. This piece of property is. Located off of Crawford St Crawford St, a portion of it runs parallel to South Slocum St and is directly behind Matthews Funeral Home there off of Slocum St. As you'll see here, he's these are the. Property. That's all right. I can't get our little green mobile to work, but that's okay. Here's the property that you see. It is one parcel that is being proposed to be divided into three separate residential units. Here's a little bit closer detail showing the footprint of the single family dwellings upon the property. along Crawford Street. And now we'll go ahead and get into some of the particulars of this request. So we're looking at approximately 0.51 acres of property, 0.17 acre per lot. The owner is Triton Homes LLC. The applicant is Jitto Enterprises Inc. Care of Mr. Peter Jitto. And Mr. Pete is here with us tonight along with his contractor, Mr. Mark Best with Triton Homes. The current zoning right now is RM9. RM9 zoning district is established for the location of single wide or double wide manufactured homes on private lots. The proposed zoning is for a residential six conditional zoning district. Again, the proposed uses for single family. The request is a change of zone from residential RM9 zoning district to the residential six conditional zoning district to construct three single family homes upon three private lots. Again, here is a property. This is our zoning map. You'll see this property to the north is office and institutional. Occupied by existing church. Just to the southwest quadrant of that picture, there is Matthews Funeral Home and across the street going east across from Crawford are single family dwellings in the R6 zoning district. Here's our conditional, I'm sorry, our comprehensive land use plan. And it does show that high density residential is the prevailing land use designation in the area. You'll see it west of Slocum Street and also eastward across from Crawford Street. the r6 zoning district is a corresponding zoning district in the residential or the high density residential land use designation as i've just stated this property is identified as a high density residential land use category and the residential 6 is a corresponding zoning district within that land use designation the proposed rezoning is consistent with the land use and density recommendations of our udo All stated deviations from this proposed rezoning request will be considered a deviation and any deviations not declared shall meet or exceed the minimum standards of our UDO. The specific information with regards to the site are that the property is currently vacant. Access to the lots will be directly from Crawford Street. City water and sewer utilities are available. All utilities will be required to be installed underground. The applicant has submitted building elevations and floor plans have been also submitted by the applicant. Here is a building elevation showing the front and the sides of the property. We'll get a little more detail in the conditions of the report as we go through the rest of this presentation. Here's the floor plan. So if the conditional rezoning is approved, the applicant will be required to subdivide the existing lot into three individual lots in accordance with our city subdivision ordinance and the conditions of the R6 zoning district. If approved, the applicant will be required to apply for residential building permits in accordance with the North Carolina State Building Code before any permits are issued. The following are agreed-upon deviations from our minimum development standards of the UDA. If the rezoning is approved, these deviations will become conditions of the R6 zoning district. As you'll see, the minimum lot size is 6,000 square feet in the R6 zoning district. The applicant is actually looking at developing each lot to a maximum of 7,500 square feet. The minimum lot width, instead of 60 we could not squeeze much 60 feet but we could get 57.09 feet for each R6 lot which you will find a lot in the a lot of the primary residential areas in this area of Goldsboro the minimum front setback is from 25 to 26 feet. The minimum size fit setback is eight feet. The minimum rear is 25 and the maximum building story height is eight feet. I'm sorry, two stores. Let's see conditions of the proposed conditional zoning district. Again, we're limiting the property just to single family to detach dwellings for each lot. The applicant has agreed to install a six foot in height wood privacy fence. along the rear of the property and shall extend from the southern property line to the northern property line of each lot. One street tree shall be installed in the front yard of each lot and foundation planning shrubs shall be installed around the front and side elevations of each home. Please keep in mind that the fence is not a requirement, nor are the plant the plantings of trees or any landscaping around the home. These are all conditions that the applicant has agreed to. architectural standards of the proposed are since conditional zoning district are the each dwelling shall be 1698.48 square feet in the area. They shall consist of a front porch covered porch. Each dwelling shot consists of a wooden rear deck. Each dwelling shot consists of fiberglass shingles upon the roof. Each dwelling shall consist of an attached garage with raised panel garage doors. Each single family dwelling shall consist of a three-bedroom, two-path configuration. And each dwelling shall consist of a kitchen, dining room, family room, storage, and utility areas. The staff's evaluation and recommendation are as follows. It is of the opinion of the planning staff that this conditional rezoner request is consistent with the recommendations of the comp plan and the land use map with regards to the high density residential land use designation. Planning staff's opinion is also that this proposal can provide for the public safety and meet transportation and utility demands for the subject property while maintaining sufficient levels of service to existing developments. Planning staff is also the opinion that the proposed R6 conditional zoning district will not impair or injure the health, welfare, and safety of the public. Importantly, the planning staff's opinion is that this zoning district will address Goldsboro's housing shortage, offering increased housing options and affordability while providing economic, social, and environmental benefits that will enhance residents and their quality of life. With regards to the comprehensive land use plan, this will help to promote infill development within this residential area of Goldsboro, which is very much needed. Therefore, the planning staff is recommending approval of this R6 conditional zoning district with all agreed upon conditions. If you will, Mayor, I'll turn it back over to you for the council to review, conduct the public hearing, and review our consistency statements as well, and then take action from that point forward.

Well, if you don't mind just hanging out for a second, let's ask Council if there's any questions for you. And then as has been our past practice, we'll invite the applicant up if they so choose to come in and answer, fill in any blanks for us or as well as the public. Then we can actually have the public hearing. Everyone knows what we're talking about. Yes, sir. Council, any questions for staff at this point? I do.

I just have one quick one. Kenny, could you go back to the picture that has, I think it has Matthew Funeral Home in the distance. Is that actually right there? Yes, sir. Is that within that fence that Matthews has up? Matthews has a fence up.

That's right there is a fence and I think Mister Jito can probably come in a little bit more I do know that there were some encroachments upon the property that once the property is so that they will have any issues where there are any fence encroachments or any other building encroachments upon the property or resolve before that's the property sold.

And that's what you know you know that the price the pricing point. I mean, I will ask them when they come up. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. That's right. All right.

So with that, let's have the applicant come forward if they if they would like to. And then they can fill in any pieces that they would like to add to the brief and then hear any questions from counsel. Then we'll begin with public public hearing.

Yes, sir.

If you would, just come and state your name for the record. Ms. Goetz, we don't have to do any surprise. Perfect. If you would just state your name for the record, and then if there are any missing pieces in the Swiss cheese, feel free to fill them in.

Sounds good. Thank you, Mayor. My name is Peter Jitto of Jitto Enterprises. And so we purchased this property. And so we are looking to build three single family houses. I built two duplexes over on South Leslie Street and then I built these exact house over at 604 West Mulberry Street. I own I think 9 or 12 other lots like this in Goldsboro that I'll be doing infill development. on uh so typically your one of your questions was uh what is the price point so this house i listed at 249 and i think i dropped like 219 i wasn't able to get a buyer so i turned it into a single family rental that i own um which is typically what i do so i build it i buy infill lots in areas that are probably um not where other people are buying lots then i go ahead and turn them into rentals uh they're nice they're new um i your building department and i get along great uh and then i build them turn them into rentals and hopefully sell them or if i don't sell them then i just keep them uh and then just keep washing rinse and repeat uh the process as far as the fence if you look at the survey so as i'm sure you're aware that funeral home it owned that the whole entire parcel so we bought it and we worked with the planning department to subdivide off this what is appears to be right three right now but it is only one right now parcel and the fence is on their property at the top of it. If you see where it says six broad, so their fence is on their property. So the funeral home is who sold family members, somebody that obviously they have a nice little home there and they use that lot that's behind us as a parking lot. so they wanted to keep that um so we worked with them subdivided that off and then we'll put a new fence i find fences make a huge difference uh in neighborhood safety and just make a big difference so we'll put a new fence along the back and then come down the sides uh with the fence so we'll list it and if it doesn't sell by the time i'm done building it then i'll turn it into a rental it's what i did at south wesley it's what i did at 604 with mulberry and we're building a duplex over on miller right now as well what was the what's the rental price I got 1600 at Mulberry Street for a three bed, two bath house. I have on South Leslie, so that's the exact same as this, South Leslie, those two town homes that are there. Duplex townhomes. I've gotten like $1,495 to $1,600. Just depends on when Seymour is changing out. I had to do well. I had some pretty bad incidents of crime over there from one group of family. The Goldsboro Police Department was pretty good to work with. So I would love to see a little more effort from there. So we then had to have everyone move out And so they're all re-rented again. But the Goldsboro Planning and Building Department have been amazing.

Kelsey, any other questions at this stage?

And just since this is a legislative and make be able to make a comment freely and just like to say that this is very encouraging. I'm and sitting on the planning Commission decades ago for a long time. This was a a regular thing to see infill and repurpose and redevelopment and when the housing bubble happened around 0, 8, 0, 9, it sort of streets that To a halt and it's encouraging to see someone doing that again because that's like me personally I like to see you reuse and infill and make use of property like this and this is an ideal example of that very encouraging to see some more that starting to happen again after a few years of idle and

Yeah, I appreciate it. I do in Rocky Mount, Kinston. I started off in Kenley. I find the most challenging part is the UDO because the UDOs are built and very rigid. And so working with the planning department, it's been over a year process. We've been working at this. they've been excellent uh to like hey we're at 60 feet can we get to 57 because if you don't make the numbers work i can't build and so i i mean i have to pay you for water sewer taps which you're going to get forever i've got to pay you for and so my goal is to make money and for you all to get three new homes inside the city

And that's really why I did make the comment that I did because back in the day where our planning commission and the staff was more than willing to work and massage things a little bit if you're three foot short on a setback or something in order to make it happen because we do recognize that infill. Sometimes when you're repurposing an existing property, you have to work with what you got to work with.

There's only so many feet across. And so I've been short a half inch before and had to talk to somebody about a half inch. But they were excellent. Absolutely.

Then let's open the floor for the public hearing. And then any remaining questions that come up, we will hear. So with that, we will open the public hearing. Item 5.1 on our agenda, CZ 0226. Anyone wishing to come forward and speak, please approach the clerk. Second call. Anyone wishing to come forward and speak on CZ 0226? It is item 5.1 on our agenda. Yes, sir. Please. And just come approach the clerk. Actually, you don't really have to this time. Just come up and then state your name for the record.

My name is Pastor Gregory Jones. I pastor the church. The property that he's talking about, that fence, on the other side of that fence is my church. And I'm a little concerned. I've been trying to visualize it. and i'm not sure what i'm hearing but also i'm concerned about the possibility of i know the intent is good in terms of building apartments and so forth but what about this may reflect some safety for us or just would it create problems um and and i i hope the best for you but i i saw this i received this letter in the mail from someone and about this but my church is actually there we've been there 20 28 years right there beside the place is talking about that fence as far as Our properties on the other side of the fence in the and so I'm just here to listen to try to get a sense of what's going on what is going on. As as relates to that.

Which piece would you like to pull back up. If you don't mind, would you put the if you can take to do it? If I if I tease here me, would you please pause time and then just put back up the answer Councilman's question, put back up the aerial that shows the adjacent properties, just so we can all be one right before that, I believe. The put up one of the zoning maps just so that you can see adjacent properties. One. There. Sir if you would please. That one right there. Where slocum. Look will be the the vertical street on the left right.

And what is to the front of the home. So currently then that at the top would be a property, I presume yes.

I just want to make sure we're all the same page of exactly which piece of property we're talking about.

I mean I'm not pro no con I'm just trying to understand what's going on. What will be going on as relates to that. Typically when you do something like that. I feel a little bit better probably the cost factor of the of the home to his billing is not what one label this cheap which would probably produce unfavorable people around around around the church so but I just wanted to kind of get a sense myself as the pastor there to understand we we have not had any great issues we got a few Good has been shot in the sand and these kind of thing but we live through those things but when I've got this letter that is want to come and see what is going on and what made the end results be so. From this perspective, I want to make sure that we're not going to inherit problems. Thank you my congregations ability we have services and stuff at night and certainly want to be comfortable coming in and out so full.

Anyone else wishing to come forward and speak on CZ 0 to 26. We'll close the public hearing for item 5.1 on our agenda and go back to council deliberations. Now, Ron, Mr. Lawrence, if you would, the vote on this is a single up or down once we get to that point, right?

Be that this evening or otherwise.

It would just be a simple up or down. So, council... What I believe I saw was the front view of what the elevations would be, three single-family residential units with the intent to be market rate. What questions do we have? I want to make sure I get everyone's questions answered to the best of our ability. I need to know if I pull back staff or the applicants. Hearing no questions how would counsel like to proceed is there a motion up or down or is there a motion to table or there are there additional questions.

I would like to motion.

Is there a second.

Second.

Okay. A motion before us is to table this until all members are able to be present. That is certainly an option. I'm going to speak against that motion myself only because I'm really excited to see infill market rate development. And I don't I don't want to lose the opportunity for that. I'm not suggesting we would lose it. I'm just I'm I'm encouraged by market rate single family infill development. That's an exciting thing. And I know that everyone, everyone around was notified in writing. I believe everyone on council was aware. That's purely just my opinion. I obviously don't want to eliminate anyone's ability to be heard, but this is something I also don't want to take away after we've been wanting so vocally and publicly to see infill development. I don't now want to pause it or say no to it. A motion has been made and properly seconded. Is there any other debate? Again, this would be... Let me get back to the right screen. Um... All right, so motion before us is the motion to table. That would not necessarily be a motion on the actual merit of the thing in front of us, but motion has been made and properly seconded. Is there any further debate? Hearing none, we'll call a vote electronically if possible. This will just be purely the vote to table.

Okay.

Motion to table has failed. The matter in front of us is still CZ 0226. Is there a motion for or against the application on its merits? Or are there additional questions?

Mayor, I make a motion that the use will not. You can.

We don't have to do the four part.

That one's for the next one. It's really just an upper down. It's an ordinance. So adopt an ordinance.

The ordinance is included in the packet. It is purely the adoption or the rejection of the ordinance as presented.

I make a motion that we adopt the ordinance as presented.

Second. Motion has been made and properly seconded to adopt the ordinance as presented. Is there any debate? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. Please vote electronically if possible. Although it's having been tallied motion passes on a vote of four to one. CZ 226 is approved. If we could move to item 5.2. Mr. Livingston, if you please deliver any brief and then pull forward a member of planning investor.

Thank you Mister mayor the next. Public hearing a special use requiring causes usual hearing especially 0, 6, 26 for a crematorium on 14 09 West Grantham Street.

This will be in cause of usual would be sworn in.

Thank you, Mayor. All righty. So we're switching gears going from a legislative hearing to a quasi judicial hearing. I know everybody's pretty much well acquainted with the protocol and procedures that are involved with the hearing process. We will be hearing, as Manager Livingston said, issue 6, that's 26, a special use permit proposal for a crematorium to be located at 1409 West Grantham Street. This is on the north side of 70 Highway between Clear Ridge Nursery Road and Neville Street. The property at this time is owned by Mr. Mark Ritchie and Matt Vander Walker. The company name, their company name is 1409 West Grantham Street, LLC. The applicant is Ms. Letitia Walker. Is Ms. Letitia Washington, I'm sorry, is she here tonight? Yes. Thank you. Good to see you. Washington is president. The current zoning for the property is general industry zoning district. Existing land use was formerly used for storage. Land use designation is industrial. The subject property is a vacant commercial building of approximately 6000 square feet. The building was previously used for storage in conjunction with quicks car wash located directly West and adjacent to the property. In obtaining a special use permit, there are some criteria that must be met in order for the board to make the motion to approve if they chose to do so. And one is that the crematory should not emit any undue smoke, dust, heat or odor. And that any loading and unloading air shall be screened from adjacent properties and the public right of way. Additionally, planning staff have been informed that there is compliance through general statutes of the state of North Carolina that also must be followed. And this is in accordance with Article 13. F is in Frank cremations and alkaline hydrolysis. Again, any crematorium operator shall be licensed and operate in accordance with North Carolina General statute. So here's the property. If you see, here's the storage building. Or was the storage building still in existence? The flag shaped property. Here is the existing car wash that at this point in time has actually been refurbished and renovated to come back actively online as a hand wash car wash. So anyway, it's good to see the property owners making use of these properties. Let's see this is our zoning map. The one thing I wanted to point out is that the property there where the the store going that is actually industrial and not general business. I just want you to be aware that it's not to zone district. The next law will show our conference of land use Matt which shows the property to be within the industrial land use designation. So access to the site if this is approved will be from West Grantham Street service road along US 70 West. The subject property is located in a special flood hazard area assets. The proposal shall comply with any city floodplain regulation ordinance. There is existing city water and you sewer utilities to the site. If the special use permit is approved by Goldsboro City Council, the site plan will be reviewed by the city's Technical Review Committee for compliance with all development standards of our UDO. In addition, a commercial building permit and final inspection will be required for the upfit of the proposed crematorium to ensure that all building and fire codes have been satisfied. At this time, the applicant is given approximately hours of operation Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. And the number of employees per shift would be four. This time stamps evaluation. The recommendation is that the pro proposal is for crematorium the use would not pose any immediate threat to public health or safety. There was no evidence presented with the application that indicates that the usual injured the beneficial use of adjoining or Jason property owners. The proposed use for crematorium in this on district would be in harmony with the general industry zoning district. The land use plan shows the properties being in the industrial land use designation. We believe that the proposed use will not serve as a detriment to this designation and that the use supports goals identified in the city of Goldsboro comp plan and land use map. At this time, planning staff have no objections with the applicants proposal. We've done a little bit of research. We're just going to provide you verbally tonight that of the the crematoriums that we know that are in existence, we have one on Wayne Memorial Drive. We have one on US 117 South across from the fairgrounds. We also have one that is located in the Carly C shopping center. And to my knowledge, all the other funeral homes who provide these type services would actually contract with someone who actually provides crematorium services on site. So at this time, that's all that I know. This would actually be number four. i cannot be exact with that but based off of some uh research is there not one that's located um within just a few yards if you go back to that um yes ma'am thank you so much there's another crematorium that is right beside of where so arnold's wilbert's uh casket i believe in crematorium you're exactly right thank you for bringing that to my attention we saw that as well and um That is located right here. At first when you went by, it did not show that, but after going through the Internet this afternoon again, thank you. It was said that they do provide those services there as well.

Question for you, out of ignorance, I don't know. Yes, ma'am. Is there any kind of ordinance or anything with the North Carolina general statutes that talks about how close a crematorium can be with another crematorium? Is there anything stated in that?

I'm sorry for the interruption. I've read through Article 13 F and I don't see any at this time. Again, this statute is actually enforced by the North Carolina Board of Funeral Service. But at this point in time, based off my research, I have not seen any distance requirements.

It does say in there, though, that you can regulate separation requirements like other types of uses.

That is correct if the boards just do so and again we are considering a new year rewrite that if any of these ordinances were to be modified that the this Council could also do so in the near future.

Also any other questions for Mister tell. I will follow our our tradition and invite the applicant up if she has anything that you'd like to add or if there's any specific questions that that we would open up over here. Ms. Washington, if you would like to come up, you're welcome, sir. You could just approach the clerk. Is there anything from the from the group that you'd like to add a correct.

I was told when I call on Wilbur it's that they do not provide cremation services. They only sell. The equipment for it. But he was taken but that's what they told me when I call. really pretty much it but I was leaning toward. Aquamation services. It's a it's like a big ball like look like a submarine and it's mixed with alcohol I was just recently doing my research on that I do apologize. it's a potassium hydroxide and water mix and it kind of evaporates and I'm sorry this I'm kind of nervous It's filled with water and small amount of potassium hydroxide using heat pressure and a gentle agitation, then the body is gently broken down, then placed in a bone dryer. So it's come a long way from like smoke, you know, so that's what I'm leaning toward and it's environmentally safe. So that's pretty much what I wanted to say.

That is a that is a different niche.

It is come a long way. Yes, sir.

Also, any comments or questions for the applicant this time? Yes, sir.

Please. I don't think it's for the applicant. It's just a general statement. Could we really find out if Wilbert does cremation or not?

I think that it would be important to know if we're worried if there is concern about proximity. Would it? Would it be okay with counseling since we are debating material material factor to do the public hearing list that way you're not having to, you know, to give a give a more of your time. Let's do the public hearing. Y'all be searching and see if you can find an answer. If not, then we may entertain a table to motion given that there are material fact questions, right? so but are there any other additional questions for our applicant hearing none have a seat don't go too far thank you And we will open the public hearing. There you go. And is there anything else that y'all know?

Well, the question is, it's in a floodplain. And I'm a novice at this, so I have no earthly idea what I'm talking about. So I'm just going to ask a question. And we're dealing with bodies. Would there ever be bodies stored there waiting to be cremated or anything like that? And some type of happenstance that it floods. I'm just asking. Because it's in a flood zone.

I think those are reasonable questions.

I'm just going to remind everybody that evidence presented is what's to be considered.

But we can ask the applicant back up to ask specific questions, i.e. what the councilman just said. And then once we get to the public hearing, we'll be able to have other folks to be able to come in and offer questions. offer other pieces. Ma'am, do you mind answering the Councilman's question about the storage and just kind of the storm preparation sorts of things?

If the building does sit up, I spoke with the owner, it does sit up at a pretty good height. And it's like a garage with a light used to be like a dock. And it sits up pretty high. So I that was one of the things I made sure before I, you know, had interest in the building. Yeah. But there will be bodies refrigerated. All right. Thank you. You're welcome.

Yes, ma'am. And then, sir.

Sir. I was just going to ask if it would be appropriate. The last time that I was in the Wilbert facility, it was a crematory. And if you would like to excuse me for a minute, I'd be glad to go contact the owner and ask him if they do that. But that's entirely up to you, procedure-wise.

Yes, ma'am. i'll put up their website right on their website it says they provide those services but i and i just my hesitation on admitting that is they could be contracting it out to someone else and so i don't want to overly rely when this is a quasi-judicial i do want to try to protect the the validity so we don't have to do this whole thing all over again so with that if there's no other additional questions right now for the applicant then what i'd like to do is hold the public hearing and then any other questions that surface if we're not able to resolve them then we'll look at tabling to see how we can get answers to those questions All right. So with that, let's have the public hearing for item 5.2 special use permit 0626. Anyone wishing to come forward and speak, please approach the clerk.

Good evening. I'm one of the owners. I'm Matt Vander Walker. Just to clarify about the building itself. It does actually sit up high enough to where it does not flood. And we've received insurance that allows the building to be out of a floodplain because of how high it is. So I just want to make sure that that was that was clear so that we knew where it was.

Okay. Second calls or anyone wishing to come forward and speak on item 5.2 on our agenda, SU 0626. All right, third and final call. Anyone wishing to come forward and speak on item 5.2 on our agenda, special use permit 0626. Hearing none, we will close the public hearing and return to council deliberations. Council, the questions that I have heard, one of them was about the past flood and past flood history of the location as well as where it sits. That question, we do have an answer in the record. The question about the, I believe there's still a material question about what services, if the adjacent property itself is operating as a crematory or if it merely offers those services, I think we need to get a final answer on that so we can be factual in our record. Were there other questions that council had Was there the ecology of if there was a potential spill? That may have been one that I was, as you were talking about it, but I don't know that I can get into the science on that one, so we'll leave that one alone.

So, Mayor, I was conversing with one of the employees there while I was asking the question, and they said, yes, we have a crematory. Our guidelines allow us to only service licensed funeral homes.

Okay.

Right, staff member there.

Okay. How do we handle the admissibility of that, Mr. Lawrence?

Technically, it's not supposed to be.

Right. Because we don't have anyone. Yeah, no one's here formally able to do it. All right. Counsel, I think the only way to do this, given that this one is quasi-judicial. The jury is acknowledged to ignore that.

Yeah. The judge will say impermissibly admitted evidence.

Well, this is the only way that we that in my opinion, the only way we can reasonably proceed with this being a special use of quasi judicial is to ask for a motion to table this one.

At that point, then staff the motion to continue the public hearing. And I would say that you didn't really close it. Okay, that's right. And so that would be what I would ask that somebody would do if that's your preference to have this to a new date. Okay, put on a date service.

okay um he can reopen it okay well then we'll phrase it as continue the public hearing if you want to reopen it first then you want to do that okay well then procedurally i'm seeing head nods i have an ocean to reopen the public here okay yes sir

For for whatever it's worth that wouldn't be a deciding factor for me and making reaching my 4 conclusions just for the record. But not out there for the rest of my councilman.

and I would need at this point what I need from Council is either a direction to reopen the public hearing and then a motion to table or a motion you know we this is the 4 part test and so we have the 4 motions that go they go as part of the special use permits would need to proceed with motion number one or they would need to be additional questions but at this point the the pass forward or additional questions or motions for the special use permits the 4 part test or a motion to reopen the public hearing, followed by a motion to table.

I want to ask Mr. Towton one more time. Mr. Towton, just for clarity, I just want to confirm, because I'm in agreement with you, Councilman Boyett. There is nowhere stated in the North Carolina General Statute that we have to have any distance between the... That would be if we all wanted to come up with some type of ordinance, we could put that in place at a later time. But there's nothing in the statutes that you read or that Ms. Washington is aware of.

That is correct.

All right, council. I need a motion in one way or another.

If it's my choice to proceed forward with the 4 criteria can I just start off with you get number one you can OK. All right, I make a motion that the use will not materially in danger of the public health or safety.

I second that.

All right motion made improperly seconded that the motion would not materially endanger the public health or safety will vote electronically if possible. And I'm going to say yes would be that you were in agreement that it would not. Is there any discussion hearing on please vote electronically. It's having been counted motion passes unanimously. If we're to proceed in this direction and we would move to motion number 2 which is the use would or would not substantially injured the beneficial use of a joining or abiding property.

I make a motion that the use will not injure the beneficial use or of the adjoining property.

All right, motion's been made that the use would not substantially injure. Is there a second?

I'll make a second.

All right, motion's been made and properly seconded that the use would not substantially injure. Is there any debate on that motion? Hearing none, we'll call a vote. We'll vote electronically if possible. All votes have been tallied. Motion passes unanimously. Continuing in this line, the third motion would be that the use would or would not be in harmony with existing development and uses within the area in which it is located.

Make a motion that the use will be in harmony with existing development and uses within the area in which it is located.

All right. A motion has been made that the use will be in harmony with. Is there a second? Second. Motion has been made and properly seconded that the use will be in harmony with. Is there any debate? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. Please vote electronically if possible. All votes have been cast. Motion passes unanimously. And then finally, motion number four would be that the use would or would not be in general conformity with the City of Goldsboro Comprehensive Land Use Plan.

Make motion that the use will be in general conformity with the City of Goldsboro Comprehensive Land Use Plan.

Second. Motion has been made and properly seconded that the use would be. Is there any debate? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. Please vote electronically if possible. Okay. Councilman White. Although it's having mentality, all four motions passing unanimously. Special use of 626 is his warden. All right, Mr. Livingston, let's walk us through a 5.3 ordinance change.

Thank you Mister mayor, this is a you do amendment for 26 amending the supplemental use regulations for bars nightclubs pool halls microbers under article 9 section, 9.2. And Mark here to explain that in further detail.

Good evening, Council. Mr. Manager and Ron, how are y'all doing this evening? Yeah, so this is UDO-4-26, City of Goldsboro is the applicant in this case. playing services has been tasked with developing an ordinance meaning City of Goldsboro article 9 section 9.2 definitions so we have been tasked with creating some minor adjustments to the the place of entertainment particularly as it pertains to the central business district Staff along with several other members of the city staff have came up with a a small list of things that they would like to see and I think things that has done a has captured most of of that in this ordinance, there's just a couple minor things with the change but But let me just start with the unified development ordinance allows for bars nightclubs pool halls and micro breweries in accordance with section 5.5 supplemental use regulations and section 5.2 table of permitted uses and within your you do you'll see the existing table here where it says bars nightclubs pool halls micro breweries plays entertainment with an ABC permit and also includes bowling alleys and miniature golf under that particular use there. In this case, it is a permitted by special use permit within the central business district, a general business shopping center, and highway business zoning districts according in accordance with the supplemental standards that can be found in section 5.5.4. So this is a map showing the central business district this is the boundary of the map outside of that would be all other zoning districts to include those specifically listed here, which includes in this case would be general business shopping center and highway business. So yeah, but this particular shows the boundary of the central business district And then within that is identified by text and it is an overlay district essentially that's identified within the supplemental standards for place entertainment as well as other areas. But essentially it is a zoning district in and of itself or an overlay district with particularly reduced parking standards. And then within that of course you got the the social of the social district that's just there for a it's not really a zoning thing, but it's just there for a context so. So staff has noticed some significant challenges with when attempting to permit place entertainment within central business district. Particularly with the separation requirements of section 5 dot 5 of the you know we believe I believe that under limits the number of properties that can qualify for permit. The current code, of course, favors the first two on the block and then basically denies all others. Current standard allows for a maximum of two places of entertainment per city block within the CBD. The standard also limits the number of properties that could possibly qualify for a place of entertainment, particularly as a bar or a nightclub. Current language used in the UDO does provide some ambiguous language when it talks about how we calculate the proximity type regulations that currently exist in there. And it uses language like no consideration for the road. Prior to me arriving here, Kenny had made one interpretation that I believe that it You take that the the right away distance is subtracted from the straight line distance and then when I got here, I'm thinking know what it seems like it would be the opposite where you wouldn't automatically take the right away. Calculation and applied against the project but would actually give it credit it would count towards that distance so 50 foot requirement um if a right away is 50 foot wide then technically it would meet that requirement so that's what i'm saying but in either case the language doesn't mean either it doesn't mean that or It means nothing, actually. It has absolutely no meaning. No consideration for roads are to be considered when making that measurement. So it's not helpful at all. It doesn't tell us whether it's added or subtracted or not. So we're recommending that that language just be deleted since it serves no practical purpose. Also, the current UDO doesn't have a proper definition for a place of entertainment. So we've created one. And we've taken that language straight out of the, we're mirroring the language that I found in the definition of place of entertainment found in the social district ordinances. So we're just kind of borrowed it from there just to remain consistent. So... So this amendment will also remove properties across the public right away from separation requirements. So we're just basically, since we're already not looking at uses across the street when we talk about places of entertainment, which currently it's two per block face with no consideration for the number across the street, we thought it might be best just to go ahead and remove those separation requirements. After all, the separation requirements are usually when you are concerned that a particular use will create a de facto district, right? So you create the separation requirements to keep that from naturally occurring. but in this case it is in entertainment district among other things but it is an entertainment district so reducing those standards separation standards does make a lot of sense in this case as far as I can tell you know My analysis show so the pro pros minute will prohibit place entertainment if the proposed. If the proposed is to be located such a manner that shares an exterior wall with the J church or school or located within the CBD and the pros men will increase the maximum number of place entertainment from 2 to 3 within a city. A block face within the CBD. So this is the definition again taken straight from the language used in the air in a social district stuff basically, it's a established engaged primarily in the act of serving selling or allowing for the consumption alcohol related products. So she may provide entertainment in the form of performances recreation sports live bands, etc. However, is alcohol really is a principal use in this case, unlike a restaurant where food is the principal serving food is the principal use with alcohol being accessory. But at this time, our ordinance really not set up that way. but with a future UDO you may want to consider looking at alcohol in terms of principle and accessory and then determining which is the most appropriate districts and methods for and processes for approval of that and that's obviously It varies from community to community, so whatever this community feels is comfortable and most appropriate, we definitely want to capture that in a UDO rewrite. Let's see. So this is just the actual text itself. The existing text with the old language written, struck through with the new language. So instead of a four lane highway, we're just saying public right of way. So that way we don't end up getting in, like splitting hairs with potential applicants on whether it's a four-lane road is that does that mean it's like a two-lane divided highway with shoulders and it's just simpler just to say if you know the public right away just public right away instead of a four-lane highway So in this case, the two-lane, 200-foot separation shall only apply to properties along the side rear of the establishment. So it's basically saying if the separation requirements do not apply to properties across the public right of way. So that's district-wide, by the way, I'm sorry. And then within central business district. We're just adding additional language where the post session is separate from residential zone or develop properties free staying church or school, but look right away one foot separation only apply to properties along the sides and rarely establishment just for consistency sake. And then, of course, the meat of the proposal is to increase the number of potential places of entertainment from two to three per city block face. So that's per side of the street, measured from corner to corner. Again, this is some additional language there that just strikes the the the ambiguous language and and basically just again. So we replaced it with language that says shall only apply to properties alongside we're so again we're removing those separation requirements from from land uses across the street. there was one other thing I probably should point out excuse me with the I don't want to gloss over it but the proximity to church schools and forget the exact language I'm sorry church schools and It was initially 100 feet and we are basically reducing that to apply to properties are immediately Jason so if they should a shared wall. So you know if there's a bar a nightclub and then a church or say a church and then of our wants to move immediately next door in a situation where they're sharing a wall that would not be permitted with this current. you know so we've reduced it but we've not completely eliminated separation over reduce it to just those that they're sharing walls that would not be pretty because we we don't want we understand that all uses can coexist in peace and urban environments such as your central business district but same time noise and vibration can't travel through shared wall so We do not have any provisions in there that would allow for a church to be located immediately or a bar to be located immediately or situated in such a way that it's sharing a wall. And one last thing psych point out the existing language, it's not in my slide presentation. But it does this particular language. This particular ordinance existing or is does call out the fact that Council obviously reserves the right to revoke a permit if a place entertainment. You know is is getting excessive amount of complaints and the like you here are Well, within your right, since you issued the permit, you can revisit the permit and make a determination whether the operation is still in the best interest of the health, welfare, and safety of the public. And I know it's an extreme kind of scenario, but this council does have the authority to revoke a permit. I'll be happy to answer any questions we have.

On this one right on the floor to councilman Taylor so her hand up a good bit through the presentation so for sure.

Just a question that I want to like get ahead of ourselves here, but I was under the impression that we were in the process of making some changes to the actual definition of a place of entertainment in the city of Goldsboro so I'm thinking myself and you know could be wrong. That may be before we approve any changes to the you do concerning of places of entertainment, maybe we should wait until after we change the wording or approve or disapprove the definition of a place of entertainment. So then. That's that I've been talking about in. Yeah, so that that's not it. I was thinking that, you know, maybe the first one we're working on. Didn't come back to this.

Those are trying to find that permitted page with the permitting start on. There are obviously it's not plays it's not perfect ordinance and this is just making minor modifications to the smallest amount of change to get the desired effect which is to create a to create opportunity for more property owners within the cbd so more property owners would uh by eliminating the the separation requirements and upping the number of permits per city block uh six significant number of property owners can now at least qualify to make application for permits so that's really all we're doing but But I think you you touched on a good point there is that the with you do rewrite particularly what should happen really a week's we say place entertainment that is a classification of this like a grouping of land uses right so You see that gray, this gray? If you look further in the chart, that would say something like residential or industrial or something to that effect. And what I would recommend going forward if we were to do a UDO rewrite is to make a classification of entertainment. that and then under that you would just spell out all the uses whether it be a putt-putt golfer for a go-kart track or a bowling alley or a nightclub or that whole range of permitted uses consider all of those and get more that that specific getting a little more specific with the UDO and how it pertains to entertainment in general As far as other proposals that we spoke about obviously you know state and federal laws come into play there so particularly with you know as far as the indoor smoking you may be referring to that. You know we still upon further review of that we The state statutes are pretty clear as to what uses are exempt from indoor smoking. So I think any proposal that comes forward that frames the use as something that's exempt, we can consider it.

So what I'm saying is I was under the impression that we were working on mending a fake ordinance and to separate hookah lounges and classify them as a place of entertainment. Instead, you can't do that.

Again, that's what I'm trying to say is to do my research. There's a list of exempt uses that are exempt from the indoor smoking rule, and hookah is not one of them. So any business that comes forward that wants to permit indoor smoking in their establishment has to present themselves as one of those listed uses that are exempt from the indoor smoking law. That that does a way to for this board to consider it right so the private clubs are exempt from indoor smoking then someone needs to come in with if someone comes in with an application for a private club. Could be exempt from state regulations regarding indoor smoking.

CBD in the vape ordinance specifically classifies hookah with that. If we do what I'm saying.

So like I just so you don't want to spell out something that is explicitly not permitted by state law. Right. So if hookah as a as its own use, right, is not explicitly permitted in the general statutes being exempt from indoor smoking. Now, if it's a private club, then if they're enjoying hookah in that environment, then they're probably fine, is what I'm saying. I've researched approximately 20 UDOs during this process to include every community I've worked for in the past, as well as Raleigh, Kinston, Wilson, Nightdale, Zebulon, Raleigh, Charlotte, Greenville, Goldsboro, no one has a hookah ordinance. No one allows for hookah as a place of entertainment. You won't find it in the code, but every one of them does have an ordinance that regulates the retail sales of tobacco and hookah related products. We're already consistent with what I believe is what state law requires of us, and we're consistent with what our peers are doing as well.

private club could be exempt from certain things.

Yeah. So private club is explicitly, uh, uh, uh, exempt from indoor smoking under certain circumstances. There's probably a lot of fine, some fine print there. So your applicant needs to understand, uh, what that state law is saying, and then approach us in a way that would allow us to consider their application. So that's, I think that's the best we're going to be able to do on this one. Um, I was going to mention one other thing, but it just escaped me. But, yes, I think we're good with that right now. Gee, it bugs me that I just forgot that. But I had another train of thought I wanted to share with you, but we can talk later.

Is there a reason why we're only making those changes to just

Actually the the the way that the ordinances is set up and again this may be something we want to look at when we we start talking about redoing the you do so you've got. You got the permit you start there which names. General business shopping center in highway business right and then you've got the CBD so those are the 4 districts so on this map that's the central business district there so Areas outside that if properly zoned then the first chap the first couple of paragraphs in the ordinance Regulating nut bars and nightclubs would apply to the whole district the whole and then as you get further down it kind of it's doing what the map does it's applying supplemental standards specifically to the CBD and I think the the intent is to kind of loosen up the standards there to allow and to encourage more entertainment in our central business district and of course it it goes from there it goes to you know your overlay district which even incentivizes more by saying well you don't have to do parking because the city will provide it for you which is a good deal And then you got the social district again, which is more just encouraging, you know, people to enjoy, you know, the downtown and to frequent the establishments there. So, I mean, that's kind of the way it's set up. I do have a question just to follow up. Yes, sir.

So I was going to ask the same question. Is it just relative to downtown? So my follow-up question to her is, so we're saying that because we're not specific, we're saying they can't be, they can be, we're going to put more than one within a block or whatever in the change. We can already do it out on Berkeley. I'm just using that as a...

Currently, there is... You have the proximity stuff, but there's no limit, total limit standards there. Outside of the CBD. Of course, with the CBD, there's no separation, but there's a limit to how many you can have. It's kind of opposite of outside the CBD. Then also... Also, we've been consistent with removing the text to talking about proximity measuring across the street. So that's consistent across the entire jurisdiction. So we will eliminate the need to measure that distance and to make sure that, you know, so it's just, we did that for consistency's sake.

So Mark, I just want to make sure I'm clear on this. I think I am. I'm a business person that wants to open a hookah lounge somewhere. Let's say not the CBD because I think or just I'm calling it a private club. So what is my first step if I'm saying it's a private club and going to the planning department, what would I have to produce?

I think they would need to make application for a place of entertainment as a private club. And, obviously, there's probably, well, there is specific standards for alcohol. And, you know, the ABC, obviously, I think, regulates private clubs a little differently. So it's the way that's handled. more specifically to your question is they just need to approach us with an application for one of the uses that is that the general statute clearly states is exempt and private private club is that which is under private ownership and they you know track their tenants and things of that nature they could be considered for approval in any district that's you know that's where it's a place entertainment is a allowed for by you know the standard of the UDO.

I have a question if you don't mind. So I was driving around this weekend and also reading your verbiage over the weekend. The cosmetics of downtown Goldsboro has changed significantly in the last five to you know seven years. I was looking especially at the line this weekend No place of entertainment shall be located so that it shares an exterior wall with an adjacent church or school As I was driving around I counted a minimum of four to five nonprofits that actually serve students of Wayne County Schools they these nonprofits serve students or They're even faith-based nonprofits. Is there any language or any provision that would prevent, let's say, a nightclub from opening next door to a nonprofit that is serving school students?

Well, I think... I don't know if we have a definition for what a school is but I think you know that could mean different things different people but in the traditional sense where you have school where you a large gathering of students assembly type environment where you with classrooms and regularly scheduled type training activities. That's what I think of. I'm not sure if...

So could we possibly look at adding some verbiage that would protect them because, you know, We may not need to say just school but we might need to identify like even a nonprofit that serving school age students. I'm just using it for an example communities in school and then we would offer and have a night club like right next door to one located next door I can see where that would be a challenge for them as a nonprofit.

Also, keep in mind that they hurt. Yeah, they operate at different hours, too. So, you know, not necessarily.

Well, one of the things, Mayor Pro Tem, is that in the downtown district, it's going to be a special use permit. So you're going to have to look at those four tests there. And one of the tests would be, is it injurious to the adjacent property or does it conform to the area? And in that case, you could say no and deny it for that reason. So there is a vehicle there to properly deny those.

Yeah, sir, you will retain oversight. Regardless of what the your standards are for our tolerance for this. So you'll be able to look at on a case by case basis.

I'm yeah, I was going to make that same observation that the council ultimately has final say on any of these uses because of the procedure that's required in order to for that business to be permitted to operate regardless of sort of how that particular wording is and I get the intent of what we're doing here we're trying to maneuver and get the wording more suited to where we don't have vacant storefront downtown the word downtown is a destination now it's an entertainment district and the things that we can do just like some of these changes to encourage that type of business downtown to continue that you know tradition of what's going on there and it sort of made me think and this I don't mean this to be a question but maybe it is back and I've been racking my brain trying to remember how long, so I'm gonna guess and say 2010 range, there was a issue with storefront churches hopping up downtown. And at that time, the storefront churches popping up downtown was hindering other uses because of the regulation. And back at that time, the council, and again, I'm guessing, I think it was 2010-ish, and somewhere in that neighborhood, the council actually established a moratorium in the central business district on storefront churches in order to curb that conflict. I don't recall that ever being lifted per se. And I'm not downtown all the time, so Council Mayor Pro Tem Weeks may be able to answer this question, but I don't recall seeing any new storefront churches

come along in some time is that is that because we're able to control I think the more it's not so much control I think you just you can command higher rents you know with higher right uses that that you know maybe contribute to the local economy a little bit more you know if your downtown was struggling that's usually when you the rents start to fall and it becomes more attractive to struggling a new new startup churches you know so so is that moratorium still in effect Well, moratoriums are temporary, so you can't just have a moratorium and then just forget that it's there. You have to address the issue. Moratoriums are designed just to give you time to work through the problem and figure out the best solution for this community. So if it... Again, is it still in effect or not still in effect? Well, it might be a question for Ron, but I'm not familiar exactly with the language you're referring to. I don't recall reading anything about an existing moratorium still in effect, but I also haven't seen a lot of churches being permitted.

Okay, let me rephrase my question since we're looking at this. It's for... places of entertainment do we have an ordinance in place that prevents churches from moving back downtown no we do not I believe they're still a permitted use in the CBD yeah so an ordinance as to how many we can have per block since we know so there's no ordinance how many per block

And just kind of a quirky little thing about the proximity stuff, especially with alcohol in churches, is it would seem that the rules apply to churches, nightclubs moving next door to churches. But does, my question is, does it apply the other way? Can a church move in next door to a bar? Just something to think about.

Yeah, this is a good and ultimately as as I said before that the the city council will make that decision whoever that Council is when it comes forward because this has got to be got to be approved, you know special use permit as well as yeah, so you sell either way or either way the council is not going to have say and I don't recall when we're talking about the moratorium don't recall any any more conversation ever coming to be so I think that they attended a council at that point if memory serves me correct was just to slow that down till you know the UDO could be adjusted again that's been a long time ago but yeah we want to encourage profitable growth downtown

This was a risky conversation. The when you're dealing with vices and religious establishments in the back same conversation and how to how to balance the proximity of the 2 and the density of the 2 and but it's important when you have an area that in urban density this the way that we do in our central business district where that you've got Every version of business, including, of course, is places of worship right on top of each other. In some cases, not like we don't have literally on top of each other here just because of our second and third floor is not developing quite as much. But you could see how we could at some point. Right. So the. Pieces of red line that are actually being discussed this evening. I just want to pull us back to the actual ordinance that is in our agenda packet. It's 426 POE and the CBD ordinance. Those are the specific red lines that staff are requesting this evening. And we can have a conversation around the larger you do certainly over this next year that was you know advocated for and included in this year's budget, but I just want to make sure that we're narrowly tailoring our conversation to the extent we can and to the red lines that are actually requested not being said everything that we discussed so far is very specific to these individual red lines. Are there. Are there any other questions on any of the specific red lines or requested changes, you know, two versus three versus four versus one kinds of things or do we go to the public hearing?

I have a question for Mr. Helmer again. In the central business district exemptions, tell me the benefit of redlining a 50-foot separation distance shall be required for freestanding churches and schools and changing that to no place of entertainment shall be located so that it shares an exterior wall. Tell me the benefits of redlining that.

Well, essentially what it does is it just, first of all, it simplifies the permitting process and it allows more properties to actually qualify while at the same time protecting incompatibility between churches and places of entertainment, right?

I don't understand.

Yeah, I'll rephrase that. So we have to assume, and obviously in our dense urban core, our CBD, that there has to be a wide range of uses have to coexist in peace, right? And with the type of zoning that we practice, we make assumptions about automatically assuming some uses are incompatible with others even though there's not necessarily any documented proof of such incompatibilities other than a different different ways of thinking about about. These activities right so there are differences and I think where they date where these different uses interface is is it's critical to to to respect that right but. I'm just. So I asked the question. What's. A church across the street, or a bar across the street from the church. Is that really, is there really an issue with them two existing peacefully?

Are you asking me that question? No, I'm just asking a general question. Because we just had a pastor come before us that had an issue with, he was wanting to know what type of housing. So if you're asking me that question, my answer is going to be yes.

Okay, well, yeah, and... You know, I think what we've done with the separation for churches is basically saying like we would with all the other uses that we seem to have to have distance between them and places of entertainment. We've reduced it. much as possible while respecting the differences between those uses and in case of schools and churches we've said we the staff is of the belief that there really isn't an incompatibility there until noise and vibration begins to permeate out into the neighboring properties that's that's kind of how We're looking at it from more of a practical standpoint as opposed to a moral standpoint, obviously. And we think that there are no real documented incompatibilities there. But we can clearly probably agree that noise and vibration from one building to the other could be disruptive, not only to churches, but to any commercial establishment next door. You have to want to draw a line there and that's probably where we recommend doing it but it's subject to debate if you. Glad to consider modifications to recommend if that.

Council, while we are really not at a stopping point, but we are about an hour past when we would normally take a nature break. And at least one of us needs to do so. I'm going to put us into recess until 8.20 apple time. I realize that one's about three minutes different, but we'll go by 8.20 apple time.

Thank you.

back to order. We are still in brief and then council questions and deliberation on item 5.3. We have not yet gotten to the public hearing. We will in due time. We'll invite members of the planning department back up to be able to continue hearing and answering questions before we actually move into the public hearing to make sure that anyone who is coming up to speak is able to know exactly what it is about which they are speaking. So with that, Mr. Helmer, was there any comment that you were about to make next?

I'd just like to clarify that there's still a separation between the churches and the clubs. That has not changed. However, we're not going across the street to make that measurement, and we're basically saying if the building's physically touched, then that is too close. But, you know, we've assembled this based on some input that we've received from other staff members. However, we're open to whatever this council chooses to be correct for the city of Goldsboro. We'll make any modifications as you deem appropriate.

All right, council. Who had remaining questions for Mr. Hellman? Alright, so with that, let's move into the public hearing. And then don't go far. I'm sure there will be there'll be additional questions. And then we'll decide how we want to resolve the actual ordinance itself. All right, this is a public hearing for 5.3 UDO 0426. If memory serves, these being legislative, they can come straight to the podium and state their name, right? Okay. So is there anyone wishing to come forward and speak on UDO 0426, item 5.3 in our agenda? Anyone wishing to come forward and speak on 0426? Second call, anyone wishing to come forward and speak on item 5.3 UDL 0426? Third and final call, anyone wishing to come forward and speak on item 5.3 UDL 0426? Hearing no, we'll close the public hearing. Mr. Helmer, if you'd please come back up. So the changes, as I'm reading them, I'm just going to go piece by piece, would be to add the formal definition for a place of entertainment under section 9.2 of Article 9. would be to change the separation from an establishment from residentially zoned or developed property by a public right-of-way. The 200-foot separation shall only apply to properties along the sides and rear of the establishment. So is that intended to say that 200 feet from the front no longer applause. Yeah. Yeah.

If there's a right away between the proposed use and existing use that that separation is removed, being removed from the equation.

And then there are and that applies citywide. And then you get into a few things that are central business district or CBD, but central business district exception specifics. And those are One, instead of saying that a church or school and an establishment, a place of entertainment, would have to be 50 feet, now we're saying that it cannot share an exterior wall. So effectively, it would have to be one exterior wall over. That's correct. It could not be a neighboring storefront. It would have to be one removed.

Yes, and we're doing something similar outside the CBD where we're saying we're not going to consider uses across the right-of-way, but we're still going to keep the 100-foot separation between uses, but only uses to the side and rear.

We'll get to that one in just a second. Okay. This one I'm just reading down the the ordinance member was the number one was the central business district. Exception that was they cannot share an exterior wall so therefore by definition you could not have a place of entertainment go next door to a church or a school with the worst that's correct they would have qualified minimum of one storefront over and that also includes the rear wall right Yes. Because they cannot share a wall. So they could not be directly behind. I would have to be catty-cornered behind. Okay. And then for the remainder of the central business district not described by the boundaries above, i.e., I guess that would be the places that it's not sharing wall, like storefront, storefront, storefront. There's a degree of separation in the buildings to some degree. where the proposed establishment is separated from residentially zoned or developed property, a freestanding church or school by a public right of way, the 100 foot separation shall only apply to the properties along the sides and rear of the establishment. Okay, so that's still within the Central Business District.

Yeah, that's areas inside the red border. The previous one where we talked, that you mentioned, was the striped blue area, the parking overlay district.

Where you have truly storefront wall, storefront. Yeah, yeah. This is where you don't have that degree of density, but it's one degree of density removed, right? Because that's where you still have the 100-foot separation. Right.

Yeah.

All right. With that one, if you had a building exterior wall, five foot alley exterior wall, the hundred foot would apply, right?

Yeah, the the the yes, the greater standard distance requirement would apply because we're we're making accommodations to allow for these used to be closer, the more dense that they're going to get.

I'll use William Street as an example. You know, those are not storefront. There's alleyways in between. There's driveways in between. The 100 foot would still apply in those situations, right?

The 100-foot would apply, if I'm understanding you correctly, yes. So the 100-foot would apply all areas outside that striped area. So basically around the perimeter of the CBD.

Where it's not quite as dense. Okay. And then exception number three, again, still being specific to the Central Business District, there would be no more than three establishments within a defined city block. a block face which is one block one one side of the street between measured between corner to corner okay so pick a pick a block and you can show us where a block face you would have no more than three in between say center street and

yeah correct so yeah so that that that's a block face right there and there's another one immediately across the street so each each block you know a four-sided block there's four block faces per city block so

So this would be upping the limit from two to three to now those would still be regulated by a special use permitting process.

That's correct. So we're not making any changes to the council's oversight.

You'll still if there was already two and a third one wanted to come in, the council be at us or whoever's after us ten years from now would be able to still regulate that if they believed it was right.

Unless some other changes are made between now and then.

Yes. I don't know why I said 10. All of us may still be up here in 10. I mean, at this point, we're kind of digging into our chairs. We're getting good at it. All right, and then the last red line that I see is and I'm just going to read the paragraph. The separation distance required by this section shall be measured in a straight line from property line to property line and shall only apply to the properties along the sides and rear of the establishment. So that's saying if you have property here, property here, the closest potential site or potential interaction with those property lines is how you're measuring.

Yes. But particularly, we're removing the language. I think that's where you pulled that from. It's in there several places.

Oh, no, it's added, actually. It's the red line. Yeah. And shall only apply to the properties along the sides.

Yeah, so what we're removing there is the right-of-way, right? That ambiguous language. Correct. And we're mirroring that.

So now we're truly making it as the crow flies. Yes, exactly.

It's the closest point of... Well, we're moving across the street altogether, but all the other properties, all measurements are straight line to straight line.

Straight line to straight line. Yeah. With no... Perfect. Okay. So truly making it the simplest way possible. Yes, absolutely. The closest that A comes to B is at 50 feet.

So there's no, yeah, that will eliminate any... Or 100 feet even, yeah.

I don't know why I said 50.

It'll eliminate a potential for different interpretations because it's just ambiguous the way it's currently read. Okay.

So, counsel, that being the ordinance that is in front of us, and there are other ordinance changes to come, Is there are there any remaining questions objections or requested modifications to those red lines as president.

I still am not come taking away the 50 foot separation dish it. This trip. In this sense for me personally and I would want the verbiage to say adjacent church school or school base program. That's just my recommendation.

So yours would be, I guess in paragraph one, is that right? So yours would be?

Leaving the 50 foot separation distance.

And then adding to the red line, no place of entertainment shall be located so that it shares an exterior wall with an adjacent church, school, or school-based program.

I'm sorry, can you repeat that one more time for me?

No place of entertainment shall be located so that it shares an exterior wall with an adjacent church, school, or school-based program.

And you would like that to read keeping in the line.

I think she said right before that says owner developed property, a 50 foot separation distance which lined out shall be required for existing.

I mean, we're going to stay in churches and schools to maintain it back in and modify that sentence also to be churches, comma schools, comma and school based.

And I'm a processor I'm just trying to learn from you okay, you're doing a great job, and I'm trying to learn from you I'm gonna use an example with the 100 foot separation Which I know that ultimately cancel it would come before cancel and we could make the final decision But I'm gonna use them just for example so on William Street is the house of boredom Okay, it is a rehab and a shelter would Because they are a faith-based rehab or shelter, would that 100 distance to protect the people that are staying there, that are trying to have recovery, would that 100-foot distance still apply to them as a faith-based nonprofit as well?

I would say, well, I would want to first look at the special populations ordinance and see if that trumps this particular ordinance, because I think that's probably what it would. I mean, do they have their cake and eat it, too? I'm not sure. That's something that would require a little bit more analysis. I think you could argue that if we add faith-based language to this, that a lot of people could come forward and say we're faith-based and They could, you know, we have to look at a lot of uses.

And that's why zoning regulations don't really, they try to stay away from that faith-based or that kind of use. So if it's a rehab center or a group home or something like that, it's categorized as that, whether it's by a nonprofit or a faith-based group or not. But it's a great question. I just think that, you know, that's why we have to interpret things by use.

Pretend like they weren't faith-based and they were a recovery center. Like, I'm thinking in my mind right now, downtown, we have a young man that runs an agency, I think it's over on Walnut, and he specializes with recovery, working with people with recovery. There's just, other than it coming before the council, there's no way to protect him from a nightclub going next door to a recovery, correct?

Yeah, it's questionable whether the UDO gives us the authority to really regulate that closely. It would be bad luck, obviously, on the UDO. I think for the tenant because I think when we brought we bring that to you you're going to take that in consideration and think of the harm that the proposal could do to that faith base and you'd probably come to the same conclusion you're suggesting now and that is to to to not deny that so you'll still have even though you might have the exact language in there for every possible scenario but you'll still have the oversight that you can take it on a case-by-case basis so

I was going to sort of point that same thing out mayor protein that the I'm comfortable with the language being as such that the planning staff development services staff has a framework to guide people when they come in of hard yes hard no but leaving it in such a manner that the elected body makes that decision collectively, whether it be us or the next group or whatever, because there's always things to consider, and it may be that there's an existing, whether it be faith-based or whatever, there was an existing use that the elected body felt would be in conflict with whatever the new request was, But I could also see the exact same scenario happening to where the elected body said, well, this is during these hours on this day, but this special use permit for X is during these hours, and so it's not a conflict. And when a special use is approved, obviously the hours are dictated. of operation, days of operation, if there's any deviation from that, then, as was pointed out earlier, that special use permit can be revoked. I mean, I think the elected body has ultimate control and has good control, and we just need to make sure that this paperwork's primary service is to guide the staff to help someone when they're coming in, say hard yes or hard no, or this would be up to council if you make this application. Because as Mr. Hillmer pointed out earlier, we've had situations to where you have different members of staff within one department that interpret some of this stuff different ways. So if we can clean up some of that stuff, And one example I can think of, a few years ago there was an application made for a special use and there was a church in proximity to it and there was some disagreement about how you measured that proximity in order to reach that decision. So I think cleaning up the ordinance so staff has a clear direction and then the ultimate decision lying with the elected body, I think we're accomplishing that. That's just my opinion of why I would be in support of the document as presented.

So I procedurally messed up just a second ago and Ron didn't throw anything at me so it's his fault. So what I heard the pro tem say was that she was motioning for an amendment to the document as proposed. At that time I should have called for a second. The request, the motion that she was making to amend the ordinance as proposed was to un-strike the line that says a 50-foot separation distance shall be required for freestanding churches and schools. To modify that sentence to read for freestanding churches, churches, schools, and school-based organizations. And to continue to add the red line entry of no place of entertainment shall be located so that it shares an exterior wall with an adjacent, and then modify this sentence to also read church, school, and school-based organization. Is there a second to that? I'll second. All right. Motion's been made and properly seconded to amend the document as presented as just read.

I don't think I have to read that again. It's on video.

Is there any debate on that? I believe that Councilman Boyette just spoke. Well, we haven't gotten to the actual voting part yet. Is there any debate on that specific amendment? We're not voting in the whole thing, yes or no, that specific amendment, trying to follow the actual procedure here. Is there any discussion on that amendment for or against?

I I'm OK with it as presented, but I don't think that that is the end the deal breaker if if that I respected pro tems wishes and and I'll support that if that's what she feels that strongly about but I feel like the document as presented was good enough for the count the Council this one or future want to make that decision, but if there's a motion and a second and support for count me into.

a question for for staff and I know I'm asking you a hypothetical based on a hypothetical so think think slowly and we'll get through this together if that if that modification is made does the paragraph further down that says so only apply to properties along the sides and rear still apply i.e you have the 50 foot but if it is off of the front i.e straight across the street would the 50 foot still apply yes right

That's a good question. I've read this several times, obviously. Where does the standard for CBD end and where does it go back to the beginning of the section where it's really talking about the entire jurisdiction? But because it says section, so that I think the paragraph where it's talking about the separation distance required by this section applies across the jurisdiction, not just CBD.

OK. That would be my interpretation as well. And that being the case, I think that what the pro tem is proposing certainly can work. I think that's a reasonable option. So is there any further debate on that on the amendment. Hearing none procedurally would ask to call the vote clerk if you would please but electronically if possible. All right all votes have been being cast the the motion to amend passes on a 5 vote. So now the ordinance in front of us reads.

Don't need up in the right.

But.

Already did we already did not.

Yeah, yeah, we did it.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

Hearing none. I would entertain will reopen the public hearing for you to go for 26. Anyone wishing to come forward and speak on the freshly amended ordinance proposal under 5.3 on our agenda. Second call anyone wish to come forward speak you do a 426. Third and final call, anyone wishing to come forward and speak on the amended UDO 426? All right, we'll close the public hearing. No one has come forward. We've said that for the record.

If you pass that, I think you need to instruct Mark to come back and define what a school-based program is.

Right.

Okay. Okay. That could be up for debate.

Right. But there's strength in this. Council. We at this point we have a modified ordinance we've had a public hearing. We've heard our attorneys recommendation that we get clarification from Mister Helmer on that definition. There is nothing stopping us from passing each of these red lines as amended right now he would then be coming back with the article nine section nine dot to definitions and an additional definition. Nothing stopping us from doing all of this thing here now, but you would need to come back with a definition very quickly.

Well is that is that what we're saying is we need additional definitions for faith base or school school for school.

For school based now we for school based okay.

That is the modified document right now includes a term school based and that was Ron's advice was you need to define that as a as opposed to leave it completely to you guys to have that rain.

We presented a document for public hearing without that, and to add it, we'd probably need to revisit it.

We'd go through the ordinance modification process over again. Ron, is your recommendation that we... that we table this, let them come back with modifications. I would prefer to vote on what we have in front of what you got. And then you come back with a definition once you have a definition.

Yes.

Until then, you have to use your administrative authority to interpret it as reasonably as possible.

OK, we will do that. I can present you a document for your signature with the just the recommended changes and a definite set.

I understand the is the definition of what he just said being

There's an amendment that's been made to what you proposed. That's correct. We're voting on the document as amended. We're going to vote on what you proposed along with the amendment that was made in that motion. Period. And that's all I'm doing right now. Right. And then you would need to come back. You come back with school-based program definition to be amended in the definition section.

Okay. Later. We can do that.

All right.

So with that, council, is there any further debate on the ordinance as amended? Hearing no, I'm going to entertain a motion to adopt the ordinance as amended.

So moved.

Motion has been made. Is there a second?

Second.

Motion has been made and properly seconded to adopt the ordinance as amended this evening. Is there any further debate on that? Hearing none, please vote electronically if possible. All right. Motion, all votes being in the affirmative, motion passes on a 5-0 vote. The ordinance as amended will be presented for signature tomorrow at your professional leisure. Yes, sir. Please come back with another ordinance revision that would be the definitions. And if there's any other definitions that you see at that time or things that the councilwoman has asked for, that can also be a time to do that. Understood. Yes, ma'am, please, before you leave.

One question. So we're making changes to the ordinance for the Central Business District. What about, let's just say, general business when it comes down to places of entertainment?

Are we doing anything in the works with that? I think the ordinance that we adopted tonight applies to places of entertainment within the General Business District.

So the permitted hookah bar is a place of entertainment in its...

I'm saying as far as the. Separation.

Yeah. So this ordinance tonight does affect the whole jurisdiction to some extent. Obviously, it's it it's loosened up a lot more in the CBD and less further out. But we've reduced the the the standard. We were just separation from it. We're no longer going to go across the street and measure the width of that.

Right.

In the central business district. We're not. Yeah, it's different.

This is about general business.

All districts where a place of entertainment is permitted, we're no longer going to be going across the road to measure that distance. That applies to everywhere.

I didn't want anybody coming by later saying, well, that's not the case. I just wanted to know.

Okay.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you. All right. That concludes our public hearings. We'll now move to the public comment period. As always, let me get some... verb that I'm always reminded to do. Speakers are shall be civil and courteous in their language and presentations at all times. Speakers are asked to refrain from personal attacks and or threats directed towards any council member of the mayor city staff or members of the public and vulgar and profane language or gestures will not be tolerated. And Ms. Yes, you have the list.

There are no one signed up for the public comment period.

All right, then we will move to our consent agenda. Mr. Livingston.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council. The consent agenda consists of three routine, I'm sorry, a little bit more than three, four routine numbers, which consists of the substantial amendments to the 2020 Annual Action Plan. We've talked about that several times. Approval of the regular meeting minutes for May 18, 2026. And the joint meeting of the Council and Planning Commission, June 16, 2026, and approval of the 2627 Annual Action Plan and FY2627 Operating Budget Amendment. Routinely, we vote on these through one motion, unless there's a need to discuss any particular items on the consent agenda.

Council, are there any remaining questions on any consent agenda items? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items 7.1 through 7.4. So moved. Motion's been made. Is there a second?

Second.

Motion's been made and properly seconded to approve consent agenda items 7.1 through 4. Is there any debate? Hearing none, please vote electronically if possible. That does count as a roll call vote. You always have to tell me.

It was five to zero. All right. Passed.

All items are approved. Consent agenda items are resolved. All right. Old business. We have a couple of citywide ordinances that have been in deliberation for several months on a few different fronts. Let's begin with item 8.1. Mr. Livingston, if you have any preface. If not, we'll move directly to the Chief or Deputy Chief.

No, Mayor. I don't have any opening comments.

Y'all rock, paper, scissors and decide who's coming up.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, council members, Matt and Rob. Item 8.2. 1. 8.1. Noise. background city goals will code of ordinances chapter 95 noise container rules and regulations regarding noise regulations within the city staff feels it's necessary to update and add to the language in chapter 95 to clarify and update the ordinance council discussed the amended ordinance in the meeting on february 9th the times in the ordinance have been revised based on council's discussion And then after council discussion at the meeting on February 9th, Mary Gaylor requested the item come back before the council for a second meeting. And then there's a list of revisions or the chapters within the ordinance of what's been revised. So I'm here to answer your questions if you have any questions in reference to the times and some of the updated language.

Council remember that chapter 95 is larger than just what's on the sheet was on the sheet is just the red lines and the actual recommended changes. And so if you need to on the city website, don't forget you can pop up chapter 95 if you'd like it. Let's do a split screen or something. Council what what questions remain on this item? Chief, do you mind walking us through the times and the language that's been added specifically for like 95.6 and 7 and 8? Do you mind just briefly reminding everybody? Okay.

Some of the times for 95.06 was noise and special events permits. Basically, it's for permitting a special events permit instead of saying it was a permit for noise. So it's just kind of got pulled into that gives the criteria for the permits 10 business days prior to the proposed event. Review and approval for the city manager has the option of denying or revoking the permit if it doesn't, they're not followed through on. And it's got the enforcement for us as a city or law enforcement to enforce the ordinance. And then it's got a process to appeal any decisions as far as enforcement. And that's essentially 49.06.

And this one was one that, in my opinion, needed significant revision because we had a noise and special event permit that then if someone complained after you had your fully permitted event, it still could get shut down. Y'all were in a really awkward situation where you could show up to someone, they show you their permit, and you still say, well, you got a complaint. And so I like this one. being resolved and showing folks what they have to do to be able to have a permitted event. Right.

Okay. uh 95.07 enforcement and penalties again it kind of goes and gives us a little bit more clarifying language as far as the authority to enforce the investigation of the notice the penalties also with the abatement and seizure authority enforcement discretion and coordination with the permits so again it was just adding more recent and updated language as opposed to what was previously in the ordinance. Any questions with that little section?

The only question I have is the 50 foot rule as opposed to the 100 foot rule. My only question is if the young men decide to rehearse like they've done in the past, And they beat those drums you're going to hear more than 50 feet right. That's just my my concern. I understand I agree with that the time limit of 9 o'clock 9 P.m. school night. So for Fridays. The only problem is the 50 feet.

I've seen so many different versions.

Now, in the entertainment district, does the 50 feet apply? Under 9513, it's 200 feet.

200. Okay. If it's 200 feet and I misread it.

No, you're perfect. This thing is layered. It is complicated. It's correct. I think it's well drafted, but it is layered. 50 foot, I think, applies to vehicles. Vehicles. Yeah. I'm fine with it. And this is, when this came up in February, I'm just going to go ahead and state this. When this came up in February, it got completely misconstrued as exclusively trying to talk about downtown and the men who were running the drum line. And that was never the intent. It was never the intent, at least for me. There there have been things that have come up all over the city where that I've received complaints everything from construction to the permitting process to A lot of things and this is a comprehensive overview and I'm being completely transparent here putting it all out there that This is intended to be a citywide Rewrite this is not intended to be a central business district exclusive rewrite and so to that end It is complicated because you have rules and then you have a central business district exception or modification. So, again, I think it's well written, but it is complicated.

I mean, it's definitely an ordinance that's way past its due to be updated.

A lot of new things have happened and it just needs to be modified to fit the community.

Which one are you, 9510? 9510. Again, this is the musical rehearsals and public performance, the times there. As you can see from them, Monday through Thursday from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. And then on Friday, 7 a.m. to midnight. Saturday, 7 a.m. to midnight. Sunday, 7 a.m. to midnight. And then any holidays, city-recognized holidays is also 7 a.m. through midnight. Any questions on that section?

Would you have a recommendation there on Sunday because you know Sunday is a school night as well I'm wondering if we should treat Sunday night like the Monday through Thursday since it's parents are getting their kids ready for school for Monday

recommendation yeah look at it that way that's a good point I think we were looking at it too much of Sunday's considered a weekday or weekend and that's where we kind of hooked that time so yeah I think it makes sense to back that midnight up to what 9 p.m. is that was councilman Boyer pointed that out to me today and I kept meaning to try to get that into that didn't so okay it's a very reasonable so 195.10 Sunday 7 a.m. to 9 p.m.

Okay, it's a recommendation if you will from a mom perspective and that lines up with the other time frames this and I know that's a good one because I think that a Sunday evenings are kind of like.

As we go through this. I will ask for a modification or ask for a motion to amend is that there are time when we're going to double check this as we go in 95 1195. Well, there's more of them. So take note and then we will ask for.

And. For reference, that's page 185 of the agenda where that appears up.

95.11 reference to construction maintenance and landscaping noise and the times there was monday through thursday 7 a.m to 8 p.m friday 7 a.m to 8 p.m saturday 7 a.m to 8 p.m sunday 7 a.m to 8 p.m and holidays city recognized holidays 7 a.m to 8 p.m and again that's construction maintenance landscaping noise throughout

So let me ask a question about that. Just somebody's out there cutting their grass at some weird hour, and another neighbor's mad because their neighbor's cutting their grass or doing something like that. Is that going to be something that we're going to have to deal with, and they're outside of the quiet hours?

If it's in an ordinance, we could deal with it if somebody calls. So yeah, we essentially go out there and tell them they need to stop. Some of that happened.

I don't want my neighbors doing it until lunchtime. I sleep late.

Any other questions with that section?

No, sir, but I believe that you made it very well written in C when you talked about the exceptions, emergency work, and then when it talks about the hours there, that does not unreasonably disturb neighbors. So it was very well written to kind of accommodate what the city manager was saying there. Right.

uh yeah and that's what i was looking at it's like ordinary homeowner maintenance so it does not unreasonably disturb neighbors everybody's got a different definition of what unreasonable is my neighbor just got a battery powered push mower the quietest thing i've ever seen nuts anyway that's i thought you were gonna call him no no he's he's incredibly courteous he's got a battery that's crazy

If there's nothing else on that one, we'll go to 95.12, commercial establishments with outdoor music or entertainment. Again, the hours on that, Monday through Thursday at 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. Friday and Saturday is 7 a.m. to midnight. And Sunday is 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. And any days where it's a city-recognized holiday is 7 a.m. through midnight. Audible 100 feet. Any questions on that? 95.13, entertainment district designation and standards. Allows the council to designate areas encouraging outdoor entertainment under controlled conditions. Permitted activities. Outdoor live music performances may occur with individual permits. Again, it requires a permit. Hours of operation. If they're in violation, then the permit can be revoked. I think elsewhere in the ordinance, it shows that if it does have a permit, they've got like a 30 minute grace period at the end of the permit. Once the permit expires, as long as they stay within that 30 minutes of overrun, they're pretty good. Any questions on that section? 9514 residential noise and quiet hours. That's new. So Monday through Thursday is 9pm to 7am. Friday, the beginning of the weekend is 11pm through 7am is quiet time. Saturday 11pm to 7am. Sunday 9pm through 7am. And then city recognized holidays 11pm through 7am. And the exception to that is authorized permitted events, emergency work, and reasonable daytime residential activity. Any questions on that?

So say, for example, we're asleep and there's someone outside hollering and screaming.

We call non-emergency number and tell them, and then what?

Someone will come out and enforce it through a warning, a citation, or a?

come out there and tell them to quieten it down. If they get another call to come back and it's habitual, then yeah, they can be charged.

I understand. I understand.

Are you measuring in a straight line?

They're just people that walk around sometimes and they holler so I was just wondering.

I think you're on to something and that might be one of the reasons that this is an important ordinance. So I heard a recommended change to 9510 to replicate the Monday through Thursday 7a to 9p on Sunday. Was that in the form of a motion?

Yes, sir. That will make it consistent with all the other comments. Perfect.

So the motion made and properly seconded to amend the proposal under 9510 to have Sunday mirror Monday. Is that stated clear enough?

Yes, sir.

Is there any debate on that? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. Please vote electronically if possible.

I remember someone making a motion in the second is to the whole thing.

She made a motion to amend. I made a motion to amend. That's what we're voting on.

That's what we're voting on. Just the amendment. Not the whole thing.

We're just voting on the amendment. Sorry, I'm getting lost. No, no, no. I'm trying to go very by the book. Spent a lot of time with Robert Shules. It's an exhausting thing. But motions have been made, properly seconded. There's no additional debate. We've already voted that the motion to amend passes. Now we have an amended document where the only amendment is 9510. Sunday is now 7A to 9B in the amended version. Now council is there a motion to adopt the amended version in front of us to move our missions and made is there a second second mission the made a properly seconded to adopt the amended ordinance. Any debate on that. Hearing no call the votes, please vote electronically if possible. Although it's having been tallied motion passes. We have a noise ordinance.

and much for your hard work, because I know you've been working on it for a long time, you and Miss Laura and your teams, and so we're extremely grateful.

You're very welcome. So now let's discuss item 8.2, sir. Animal Ordinance. It goes real code of ordinances. Chapter 91 Animal contains rules and regulations regarding animals within the city. Staff feels it necessary to update the language in Chapter 91 to clarify and update the ordinance council meeting on March 16th, 2026. The following sections of the animal ordinance were adopted. 91.15, 91.17, 91.18, 91.19, 91.20, 91.21. .22 and .23 and .24. Council asks that section 9.16 be revised and brought back to council at a later date. 91.16, the change in that portion was the count, I believe.

Four.

Right it was revised to 3 or 4. I think the question that councilmember white had asked is that pertain to animals inside the House. It does pertain to individual owning for.

So that's what it does.

And then after that, the staff felt the need to add 9.28, which is essentially similar to the general statute that's already on the fact in the state of North Carolina is for the abuse of animals, which also addresses some questions that council member White had as far as provide adequate shelter on the property if the dogs are kept outside for it as opposed to just being chained up or just running free. So it does provide that somebody can be charged with abuse of animals. It clarifies a little bit well elsewhere in the ordinance, the tethering, it does limit tethering to two hours within a 24 hour period. So just tighten it up. But yeah, 9.28 was a new section. Again, that kind of mimics the general statute that's already on the books for abuse to animals. sanitary conditions on the property and stuff like that.

So I'm going back to to the count and we're just talking specifically about dogs. It has been brought to my attention that we have a plethora of cats out there and we're not putting the same stipulation on the cats on premises as we do the dogs. So tonight I did start doing some type of research and there are ordinances out there in other municipalities sets a limit with cats as well so I ask that the council look at that and have the same stipulation on cats as they do dogs even with them I ain't saying they have to be on the lease because I ain't never seen a cat being walked on the lease but what I am saying is that if they step off the property or they destroy somebody else property just like a dog I think the cat should be here I don't want to be held accountable. I just think they should mimic that all the dog. That's just my recommendation make that a motion of second. I make that a motion.

I agree.

The motion made a properly seconded to amend the proposal to include cats now we've got to debate and figure out how we want to probably want to say that. I'm very much in favor as well. So let's look at.

So when I looked at the verbiage for Johnston County, Kinston and also Wilson County, it's dog slash cat. And the cat is not allowed to, it says to allow it to run at large off the premises of the owner. So Johnston County, Wilson County and Kinston, it was dog slash cat. So could we just change it to say dog slash cat?

Leave it at that. I think that my opinion is that we do need to look at that. But I think for right now, if we could just kind of give us some time to research a little bit more simply because dogs and cats are very different in how we regulate and might need to change too. I don't know about lumping them in. I mean, I'm just throwing that out there because I'm a little hesitant. I've never had it in word and it's a regulated cats other than as a total part of a total animals that you could have.

And then I'm going to yield to you, sir. The ordinance, all of Chapter 91, is animals as a whole. There are things that are specific to dogs, but there is already animals running at large prohibited that is not specific to dogs. That's 91.18. There's already female animals in heat that is not limited to dogs. um there but so i want to so i want to figure out if we have what we need on the books we just need to talk about enforcing it a little bit differently or if we actually need additional text on the books well i think for me personally i think that the text will come in as how many i got you right you know what i'm saying how many can you have and you have to be specific with calling out the animals

And so to Councilman White's point, the constituents that have voiced an opinion about this are simply asking, which was what Councilman White's motion that I seconded was, is when you're referring to how many dogs can be on a property that could be at that residence, owned by that, it's dogs slash cats. That was the intent of the motion that I seconded. All of the other things is regulated by animals in general. We're talking about how many cats can someone own and have on a property at one time, the same amount as a dog.

So your motion, if I misunderstood it, and let's get it recited for the record, was it that 91-16 as is proposed to be amended, which say it shall be unlawful for any owner, household, or property to keep, harbor, or maintain more than four dogs or cats? That's right. Okay. That's it. All right. So that was your motion. Right. And that was what you seconded. That's right. All right. I apologize, and I should have gotten that stated for the record.

Because in a total of eight animals, would that be like you still couldn't?

Or.

Or. OK.

So you can have four cats and four dogs for a total of eight. Right. Well, we need to say, do you want me to end? And or.

That's what I'm trying to get a clarification on.

So you would say four dogs and four cats. So cap it at, you can have four dogs and four cats.

And that's it. Because it needs to be and or or. Second day of BLAT and or is a big difference. And I'll support whichever one you feel. And I say that because it was Councilman White's constituents.

Ron, if you don't mind, look at this with us in real time here. 91-16, limitation on numbers allowed. It shall be unlawful for any owner, household, or property to keep, harbor, or maintain more than four dogs over the age of four months. Did we simply say more than four dogs? You say more than four dogs, comma, more than four dogs, comma, four cats, comma, or any combination thereof, not to exceed eight, to be explicitly clear?

If you say any combination, then that means you're going to have seven dogs and one cat.

I'm trying to get this right. We're having to do this in real time.

In this one of the orders it says or four of the same species. There you go. I like that.

Cockatoos. No. Ron, our intention is to cap any one species at four. So if I'm hearing Councilman White correct, his intent and his motion was you can have four dogs, you can have four cats. So a total of eight, but that is it. And you cannot have more than four cats or more than four dogs.

Let me just put and or. And or. Let's put and slash or for cats.

Oh, man.

All right. And then you can have a got and in there can't have more than four dogs and more than four cats. We have up to a total.

No more than four of each and or yeah, good. More than we're not just going to get into all four cats, you know, handle

I'm I'm good either way. Here's Wilson's ordinance and it says dog slash cat. Either way I'm good with it. And I have no argument either way.

And I would be too except for the fact that if it doesn't provide clear direction to the folks that's having to be out there that's the whole purpose.

That's what I wanted to do was the reason I want to make sure but if it's that would be pretty clear I think don't you think chief.

Which one?

And or, if it's four dogs, four cats, and or.

Right, that limits it to four in that species. You can't be seven and one. There's always somebody out there who would do that. I have no more than eight.

so let's state y'all decide state for the record what the language would be in the amendment and then I'm gonna call a vote well under 91.16 after it says the word for parenthetical number four dogs if you guys still want to keep over four months as the age OK and at that point you would put right after dogs and slash or 4. Or of the age of 4 months to insert it right between dogs and over.

That of course trade with that. And or we can remember that you have to say it for the record. Is council comfortable with the statement from our attorney? Yes. All right. Then we'll, is there any further debate on that? Hearing none, we'll call the vote on the amendment. The amendment is to amend the proposed language of 91-16 as stated by our city attorney.

I'll make a motion for him. I'll make a motion that we make that amendment. He's already made it. He already did that.

He already seconded it. Now we're just waiting. All right, so now the amendment voting is in progress. The amendment has passed. So now the document in front of us is a modified version of 91-16 as modified by our city attorney. 91.28 remains as presented and that's the entirety of the document. Is there any further debate on the document as modified? Hearing none, I'll call the vote or call a motion. Is there a motion to approve the modifications to Chapter 91 as presented and modified?

I make a motion that we approve the item as amended and discussed and written.

Second. All right. Motion is made and properly seconded to adopt the ordinance as modified. Is there any further debate? Hearing no, we'll call the vote. Please vote electronically if possible. All right. Motion passes on the 5-0 votes. Chapter 91 is modified.

One final comment, if I may, Mayor. This council's worked awfully hard since we've been elected to put some teeth into ordinances and get some of this stuff cleaned up to where our folks that are out here having to do that job in the field have clear direction and something with some teeth in it. And I think this is another piece of that puzzle. I would say particular to the chief one from a law enforcement perspective on some of this stuff you got to enforce and you you're out there and you run into a situation to where Well, we didn't think about this or it should have been this or that Please don't hesitate because we're in your corner if you see that an and needs to be an or on something and whether it be a you know junk car ordinance or this or whatever because our intent is to tighten this stuff up so you guys can do your job in the field and feel like you're on solid ground when you do so if you see something else needs to be maneuvered around a little bit feel free to let us know right thank you that's all mr mayor yeah we're good then thank you sir thank you thank you sir thanks

All right, that concludes our old business. We have one item of new business. Remember, item 9.2 has already been removed from the agenda. Item 9.4.

I've proposed some dates for next year's calendar for your perusal. and today is nothing more than just if you will start looking at the schedule see if there's any conflicts I tried to kind of match it with what we've done this past year except for this 2027 calendar it gives you there's one one more month that we have two meetings instead of just the one as what we had to do in 2026 based off the calendar the holiday calendar so if you'll just review that let me know if you have any changes I've also proposed for a council retreat February 18th and 19th which is a Thursday and Friday you'll just get back with me and let me know if there's anything change and then I'll bring it back to probably the September meeting and give you all plenty of time.

Council, something that Ms. Yates did point out is obviously 2027 is an election year and I'll ask you to call special attention to where the meetings fall in November and make sure that that is what is proposed is It is certainly consistent with past election years. I wanna make sure it's consistent with council's wishes. So again, that is not for vote or debate this evening, but it is to start the conversation. So everyone, please do give that some time and talk amongst yourselves to me, to Matt, Laura, and let's come up with a set of dates we can go ahead and start planning our 2027.

All right, no further new business to come before council.

Mr. Livingston, your city manager.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's got a couple things for you and the council today. We had a ribbon cutting. Thank you for being there. Great success story there. I do want to know that we are going to be coming back with a change order for some irrigation repairs that we had to make on that. So that'll be in two weeks. That was about $17,000 worth of irrigation repairs that we need to make sure that all the sod and everything we're putting out there is going to stay green and live. Also, a few months back when we were looking at the budget, we talked about the purchase cards and cell phone information. We've been working on that, haven't forgotten about that. We'll be bringing back some recommendations on that on the 17th of August as well. So look for that. And finally, I'll get into this a little bit more, but we did get noticed that we can extend the coronavirus funds. So if we want to revisit that application of funds, we could potentially do that. I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in it because we're kind of going down the thing, but we could really kind of maybe do that. So we'll talk about that more. But I just wanted to inform you, we got that news last week. So it's not like an automatic extension but we're still applying for one even for this project but we if it's something that we feel like we want to revisit we can i don't want to open up that can of worms unless you guys really feel that way about it some of the other things just so you know i know it's a high priority for the community and for the council the pavement preservation program is underway When they've been doing the curb and gutter work and so starting in August will have a barn Hill out there starting to pave the roads and following that will be repaving and repaving against we're going to keep that momentum going. Also another big project sometimes these things take a while to get started, but they're underway the sewer major project that and also the ones out it rose rose would or or uh ac schultes is our contracting contractor working on those um they're pretty big projects but we should get them done in three to six months but those are underway we've also been busy working with other communities and the county on sewer regionalization and uh just to let you know um you know we got an approved amendment to the contract with DWI so we had approximately 94,000 left in that grant and we're using it to work with the other communities and write up scopes with them each community has a different kind of approach different set of needs So, you know, still kind of working with Eureka and trying to secure even more funding potentially for the Eureka situation. But, you know, they're okay with agreements. But what we're really trying to do there is work with the state and Bob Taylor about securing additional funding. We've also had meetings with Fremont and they're looking at more of it right now their preference is to have sort of a bulk a relationship that we have now where they're purchasing it and that could change but they're not necessarily interested in us coming in and sort of taking over the whole entire system. Whereas Eureka has a different set of needs. In Pikeville They're more interested in seeing what the numbers come back in as far as what they say as far as cost versus investment and what their return on that would look like versus a full merger versus just a bulk purchase and those kind of things. But they're very much interested, and I'll say this, in tying on to the city of Goldsboro the most efficient way. possible. So that's it. And then the county, we do have an agreement that Ron's looked at. And they've essentially agreed to everything that we've kind of put in our proposal for an advisory board. But we'll bring that back to you. I guess the only thing that we probably need to discuss more is the breakdown of No one has more than 50% of a weighted vote in talking about decisions. But even those decisions are recommendations that would come to this board in terms of things like rates, in terms of overall policy and things like that. I'm glad that we're still going down that road and we're making progress there. And we're to report back to them, I think, before Labor Day. So we'll be bringing that draft agreement to you for each one of you to look at. And I'll probably sit down with groups of two or three to kind of go over that agreement one by one or paragraph by paragraph so that we all make sure we understand it. we're off of the voluntary water conservation now raleigh went off of theirs so we're going off of ours we were rewarded some jag grants which is the justice department grants for procurement of three mounted pole speed signs solar powered one message board with a speed trailer they will add to our aging pole mounted sign and also add newer functionality with the digital readouts and stuff and the ability to access data remotely and make system changes as needed so But that was good news this morning. We also have a playground that's going to be coming to the south end, south end playground park. We've got $200,000. We had eight vendors come in with a range of cost of about $190,000 to about a little over $200,000. All scores were tabulated. And my recommendation is that we're going to go with game time. That was what the whole committee kind of recommended. At 190,000 and rather than bring that back to Council, I'm kind of saying we're going to go with it because I want to go ahead and get the project started and hire a contractor. And if you guys don't have any issues with us putting a little pocket, there's an example if you want to pass that down and what it would look like.

And this is in the courtyard?

Yeah, this is, yeah. And that's just a conceptual kind of thing that they gave. That's what 200,000 get you these days are going on. It's expensive. But that's that's that's good news. We've been trying to get that thing going for years and years. And so now we're finally looking at getting it going. We all go with that. Any other questions about that that's a so you're good with going with that one, OK.

The other thing about the coronavirus again is that they they like I said he mailed us he used to take that up as a actual piece of business. If we're directing him to spend dollars that we need to put that.

I was already doing to me for some reason I received a contract to look at.

Yeah, he received a contract I have awarded the contract I can award the contract under what my abilities are city manager. So rather if you want to vote on it and just say yeah we award the contract without you know you it's fine you can do that I was just telling you that I was going to do it anyway. And then caps I guess yeah, it's within my purview to do this amount.

Then I'm just informing you. Let's just do it this way just to make sure that that way you don't have any questions later on. Are there any objections from council? Is there a motion to authorize the manager to move forward with the playground as presented?

Second.

All right, motion is made and properly seconded. I realize, Ron, I'm not going back and amending the agenda. At least we're getting on the record that we discussed it, right? This would go south end park. We don't have an aerial of exactly where, but we know where the park is and

It used to be an old one there that was replaced because of just lack of maintenance. So this will be replacing the old one that we had there a decade or so ago.

Perfect. All right. So motion is made and properly seconded. Is there any debate? Hearing none, we'll call the votes. All in favor, please vote electronically if possible. Or just... Although it's in the affirmative, there you go, Matt. Now you don't have to wonder in case Catherine needs it.

Yeah, I mean, it's fine. She and Tim talked about it. I could do it. I just wanted to keep you informed. I appreciate you supporting it. The final thing is going back to that coronavirus funds. I know we put a lot of work in it, but We didn't expect to get an extension. We're thankful that we have. So do we want to revisit this issue and say, you know, we've seen these other things that have come up since then that we feel like would qualify, like the tennis courts or something like that. So I know that it's not a majority of the city council that's here right now, so I don't want to put you on the spot, but... It was my duty to tell you that this fundamentally changed. We've got some more time. We're still going to be crunched for time no matter. But we'd have to go through the procurement process with whomever we get as a contractor. But if you'd like for us, the staff, to re-look at that, how we can apply coronavirus funds. We've got like $300,000 to work with. And we've just got to be able to make sure that whatever we do identify, we can expend the monies in quick fashion, or pretty quick fashion.

The first question will be how long of an extension did you get.

So they're granting up to a year and I want to say it's not automatic so the september's when it officially ends but it's up to a year and we can request it and you know that's it's it's a little bit maybe a little bit of a risk, but you know, I mean those everything else I'm sorry.

But just for their clarification Senate confusing.

Again the extension or not. No, no, we did not were requesting an extension. The in they but they came out with a notice saying that they're giving everybody an extension, but they have to request it. That makes sense. We have to they're saying we're eligible if you apply for an extension you could be up to up to your eligible up to a year's extension.

We have to apply for so worried that this now we're getting into in the business items i feel like this ought to be its own agenda.

It should but I just wanted to get the direction from Council if we want to stay the course or bring it back as an agenda item.

There's one more comment and if we need to set this as an agenda item for the next meeting it's fine but not not to sense since it was brought up for discussion. It I'm not opposed to see and if there was something else that we could do but if there's only a year extension we don't have the year, we have nothing else to be shovel ready, or I would not do anything to possibly upset what we've got locked in that we all agreed on doing for the gamble on something else. I mean, I'm 150% satisfied with what we did based on all of the input by the department heads and all the consideration that was given and the grant money that was tossed in, et cetera, et cetera. So something would have to be a miracle and absolutely doable to even consider risking what we've already done. That's my two cents. But I'm not opposed to if there's something that can be looked at, let's look at it. But it's got to be a good one. I have one question.

And I agree, we put a lot of thought process into it. However, this is just something for you guys to consider. We have our relationship with the tourism I think they were donating some of the money toward the the the field. Would it be appropriate to put it as an agenda item and ask the which would you prefer that we partner with you on. Would you prefer that we partner with you on the tennis courts so that you can bring that tournament here, or would you prefer that we partner with you on the lighting of the fields? Could that be a possibility of usage for that money? And then we could get it done within that year's time. They would qualify for that tournament, and then that would put that on them too to say, which would you prefer?

I would absolutely consider that. I think, yes, ma'am.

separate agenda item because that I'm sure have input into that as well.

I don't ever like to throw something on council especially not here right at the at the end of the agenda Matt I think the right thing to do is not to cut off conversation but to keep us within the confines of the agenda that we set for tonight I think you need to go back to travel and tourism and just say, guys, things have shifted. We have some options. Would you recommend a change or would you like to stay the course and then come back to us at our next meeting with some form of request or something contained as opposed to hypotheticals on hypotheticals?

Well, with that being said, I agree with everything that's been said here. But because traveling tourism are under a time crunch because they're getting ready to award the 27th and 28th, the conversation need to happen as soon as

It needs to have, I mean, we need to be able, if we're going to make a change, we need to vote on it next meeting. That's our time crunch.

We can have it prepared. I just didn't want to see if there was any kind of desire to try to look at something different. If you said no, then it would be done. It wouldn't have to. But I definitely agree we need to go before travel and tourism.

I think that you right now, I'm sure that is a very difficult thing to reopen a thing that has already been debated. You're being transparent with your council. You're putting it on the table the way you're supposed to do it. Nothing but kudos for doing that. I just want to make sure that we're not asking council to make a decision on something without an actual document in front of you know I just general guidance not as any you know tell me go forward and bring it back or just stop where we're at and keep going the same direction we're going now I think knowing that we have another very reasonable tourism related request I think you have no choice but to go back and ask the question sets the circumstances

I mean to be very transparent with the mayor until they mentioned that tonight I didn't really I really started because we talked about this and I wasn't really thinking it was a good idea but when they talked about that and you know I was like well here's something we could potentially do right yes sir do we need to include parks and rec in that we will yeah we will okay quick question because I honor what you were saying

and I heard that conversation too that they were going to be calling them back honestly within the next two weeks question so we've asked the city manager to go speak with parks and recs in travel and tourism is there any way that we could possibly take and I don't know could we take a vote saying hey if they say that that takes precedence you know we're trusting the judgment of you and the travel tourism staff If that hat if that decision has to be made before we meet again, you find what I'm saying.

I rather see it come back as an agenda item so that there can be plenty input considering that we would be undoing something that a whole lot of discussion that happened at multiple me problem.

I would feel better about it and I feel good about that too. I can only speak for me. I think that the conversation that we had about Brian Park was kind of forced into a corner because we thought we had we had time.

Right. I agree.

Right. Um, yeah, whatever guidance we get out. I'm supportive of that, you know. Thank you. That's all I got me.

all right.

So with that we will move to mayor councilmember comments it is the first meeting of August will begin with the council from district.

All right a couple things I'm sorry I missed the ribbon cutting this morning for the pocket Park. And I look forward to Councilwoman Jones being back with us at the next meeting. And I know she's had a lot of input into that pocket park and that happening over there. And also on that same subject of Councilwoman Jones' work in her district, I saw some pictures this morning. She's sponsoring over at West Haven a group of, and I don't know if there's a name for it, but there's a group of kids and they're being taught about growing their own food and how to raise their own food. And Councilwoman Jones has sponsored, being a big sponsor of that and has provided construction materials and labor to build the apparatus necessary to grow those foods and stuff in. And I saw some pictures of the completed project. this morning. So kudos to Councilwoman Jones and all of her hard work that she's put into that. I look forward to her being back at the next meeting. The city provides a mulch for that too. Okay and last thing is Councilwoman Matthews and I and the senior staff for the city had the the pleasure of attending the push-in ceremony for our newest apparatus with the fire department this week. That was neat to be able to participate in that and it's nice just to see all of the work that this council's done over the last few years just continuing to come together and whether it be that or previous action with budgets or like tonight tightening up ordinances i said the night that we were sworn into these seats that this sitting council was going to be making some decisions on things that are going to affect the next three four more generations going down the road And we have some more ahead of us that's going to come down the pipe soon. But I'm happy to be a part of this group. I'm proud to be a part of this group. And I'm proud of what we're all accomplishing up here together because it absolutely, positively is for the greater good of this city and our community. That's all, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you, sir.

Councilman, the floor is yours.

I just want to say I agree with everything that councilman boy yet said I also want to thank everyone that's been working on these ordinances working very hard to get these ordinances in front of us so we can. But give our input and make the changes. Also I do want to say I was talking to earlier we both have had complaints about something water bills from some of the because our constituents so I know that they've been been having things put online on social media was it was the councilmember recap right right And so you and I were talking about that and how well that was done. But I also was going to ask since we do have some constituents and residents, citizens, you have some that are not on social media is there a way that we could possibly since one of our things that we wanted to push this year was communication is there a way we could could include some of these things in our water bill absolutely to our to our citizens so they'll know.

Yeah, we brought in a new lead for NC, so Latoya's got some help, and those are the things I talked to her a little bit about. Our job is to get more information out to the citizens, and our goal is to get more of that done. So we've got the bandwidth to do a lot more now.

The insert in the water bills also looks completely different now.

Right, and that's what made me think about including just like the city council recap how they did it online that was great excellent and i received a lot of positive feedback from that and i myself thought it was neat so i was thinking that if we could do something like that in our water bill just a short brief

Yeah, yeah, just Laura, help me remember that, please. We'll get with Latoya tomorrow morning.

And so that's it. I just want to thank everyone for all the hard work and just ask for that as part of our continued push for more communication with our citizens.

Thank you.

Believe it or not, that was the first thing that I had wrote down was we are getting such positive feedback from the city council recap that you did online and also minutes with the mayor that my recommendation was going to be, could we, with the mayor's newsletter that he sends out his comments, if we could put the city council recap in there. And on that same token, I have a young lady that has been watching because I told her I would definitely mention her name. She may have already turned in. early, but I promised I would mention her name, guys. She's in my district. She turned 104 years old. Her name is Miss City McCandless, who also has a small crush on our neighbor, on my neighbor here, on the mayor. And so I told her I would mention her 104th birthday and that the mayor would smile back at the camera at her so congratulations miss sudie 104 years old from district five also i spoke to um Councilwoman Jones before we came on and I just want to say because I know that she's watching as well that man We are so so proud of you that ribbon-cutting this morning Along with the Housing Authority also with the City Council with the DGDC everybody that was involved and I could really see your fingerprints, Councilwoman Jones, all over that park. It is so beautiful, the turf, everything. So congratulations on a job well done. We are so proud of you. At the same token, we have missed Councilwoman Matthews tonight, and we look forward to... both of you being back um i also had the privilege of swearing in my very first two police officers um after i did it i went to my car and i cried i wept like a baby because it was just so um that moment was just so sentimental to me so i want to congratulate mr ronald bear and mr um officer lyle mclaughlin and um please since i swore you in please you know make sure that you stay with us forever and forever and forever okay um because they were just too great so welcome to the goldsbrough police department family and we look forward to swearing in many more officers so that's all i have for tonight thank you thank you very much councilman floyd good thank you mayor um just a note for uh for my mimosa park

green Avenue I did talk to the chief tonight and I also talked to the city council about the I mean the city manager about the speeding that's going on in that neighborhood so we are we are really going to get out there and make sure that we stop that then we have some drag racing going on finally to the staff of the hospital Dr. Tucker and all the nurses, thank you for taking care of my mom over this weekend. She's doing better. We got a road to recovery. But however, you know what you did for her on this weekend, my greatest no words to show my gratitude. So that's all I have.

It's good to be in a place with people who care. First off, Councilwoman Matthews, Councilwoman Jones, miss you guys tonight. Look forward to seeing both of you again very soon. The pocket part ribbon cutting this morning, partnership with Housing Authority of the City of Goldsboro, and in my time in public service, has never been stronger. And, you know, we've got a long ways to go. We've got a lot of things we want to get better. But we're laying the groundwork for being able to make consistent incremental changes. And I really appreciate all the work that that entire organization is doing. It is not easy, but they know they have a long ways to go. And they're committed and excited to get there. The Purple Heart Banquet Saturday, absolutely amazing event every single year. Again, I just want to say thank you to those who were there being honored, and also thank you to those who did all the work to ensure that the event was there to be able to honor folks and their families. Just a huge privilege. And lastly, fall sports is coming up. Can you believe it? It's still summer, but some kids are going back to school. Wait. Like Tuesday, not tomorrow, but next week. And then some are going back in about three weeks. But either way, Parks and Recreation youth sports sign-ups for fall are upon us. And so if you've got a robust church family with a bunch of kiddos in there, and you happen to have enough to be able to form a basketball team or something like that, Pull them together. Go see what you can do. Go compete a little bit and let's have some fun. I'll see everybody out there because it seems like I'm out there for every single season now. That's the fun part. All right, Mr. Lawrence, I'm not aware of a closed session. We're good? All right. So with that, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Motion has been made. A motion has been made and properly seconded to adjourn. There's no debate on that motion. We'll vote by show of hands. All in favor, please show your hand. All opposed, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes. We stand adjourned.