Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

meeting for us. We were in executive session to discuss this situation in a very legal manner. We're going to call the meeting to order shortly, but we really appreciate you being here and uh for waiting. Thank you. Have we got everybody online? Good show. We're ready. Y ready to go. Okay, let's call the meeting to order, please. Shelley, can we have roll call? Yes, Madam Chair. Thank you. Madam Chair Trace Quick here. Vice Chair Mary Lowry here. Commissioner Justin Oavdo. Commissioner Art Warren here. Commissioner Debbie Cox here. We do have a quorum. Madam, thank you. All right. So, our first item of business is consideration to approve the May 21st, 2025 meeting minutes. Does anybody have any questions or concerns? Motion to approve minutes May 21st, 2025. I second. Okay. I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion or motion approved. presentation uh discussing the overview of various compliance classifications of unimproved parcels. Dana, I assume this is you. I think Jerry's Jerry going to do that one. Jerry uh Madam Chair, the uh the uh Jerry Barnes is former um city engineer. Yes. Um, and we was available tonight to uh just give a a quick overview of of paving requirements and and um how they fit into to Oh, that that that Okay, that one looks like item C to me. So, so is he doing B and C? Yeah. We're doing here. We approve the minutes. Yeah. And we're doing the classification unapproved parcels. So, I assume that was Dana. No, I can I can do I can do that part. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry.

I I was thinking different order. So, um at the at the last meeting that we we tabled this and came back um uh someone approached me and and shared pictures of uh other dirt um undeveloped lots in along the 60. And so I thought it'd be helpful to everyone and to the commission uh to kind of review what we what I what I looked at and just give an overview of kind of the condition of the or the pos the the disposition of those lots. Okay. Um one of the pictures was of the the hillside next to the social security office. Uh and that is an example of of raw land. It's owned by somebody, but it's never been developed, never been graded. It's just vegetation. All right. Um and and there's there like I say there is no historic uh legal historic uh non-conforming use there. Um now the the there's four examples that were given of undeveloped land that's graded and waiting to be developed or developed and then something's been developed. has been demolished, utilities been removed and um and then regraded, but they have no uh legal non-conforming history to it. No use that would be there. It would be it would be a a new use, whatever is goes on that. And that was there was a picture of the the lot next to Fries, um the lot next to Wells Fargo, um the lot next to the dollar store across from the Fries gas station. Um and then the lot across from McDonald's where it's under the billboard over there by Dairy Queen. And so those are all um own land that's been that's been graded. Um and if someone uh there's there's no historic use remaining on there, I'm sorry, no legal non-conforming use remaining on those. So those would would have to go under the um the requirements in the code. um

uh parking lots with granite that are legal non-conforming. And these are places that predate the 1998 zoning changes that we know and that we have now that that require a new on new use. They require uh asphalt parking lots and that would be Selena's restaurant and and that historic uh previously had the granite and that's why it's had always been a restaurant and the granite was allowed. Um Tri City furniture parking. I think it's been there forever. And that has granite that is not in the best shape, but it's still um it it it's roughly granite. It's pretty decomposed on there. Um and then the CMS uh OT construction on US60 also. It's on US60. Um but that's been there prior to 1998. And so that is um legal non-conforming. The other So those are the pictures. That's up to eight. Um there was a picture of Hope Family Care parking lot that is in in the uh on Broad Street. Um and that was approved with granite and that was um we I don't know the direct history on that but it was prior to the development services department um restructuring um and if that same project came today it would it would not be allowed to have granite. it would have been required to have have asphalt, but there's that was what happened at that point and we we approved it at that point and and that is where we're at on that one. Um the and then there's a picture of the medical center for the lot for the fire station. Um and that is asphalt of what's what's remaining there very much uh lost its useful life and um and so if if that was well and we know that at some point we will demolish that

building grade that lot um remove the utilities and then rebuild the fire station and and we will comply with the asphalt requirement. So those are the and and that goes to the question that everybody's asked like well you know, there many parcels along the 60 that don't have, you know, that that have have some type of dirt and and people go and they and and they may pull off, they may park, you know, activity happens. Um but but none of these um that I'm aware of are are in in use and being uh leased out actually for parking. So, I just want to share that questions or comments. Okay. Okay. So, thank you. All right. Then we'll go on to item C. Presentation by the city engineer regarding the necessity of the asphalt requirement within commercial zoning districts. This can be Paul and Jerry Barnes, please. Paul. Yeah. Go ahead, Jerry. Thank you. Okay. Good evening, chairman, madam chairman, members of the commission. I'm Jerry Barnes. I am a consultant for the city of 10 year as a city engineer at city. So um I'm here to discuss the code itself which is 1473 is the servicing on a new use develop more property and and you know the city engineer himself has already made recommendations and so forth but I want to tell you why the the reasons

that we look at what to put down on these parking lots and so forth is quite a few one is economic development you know we we look at economic development as the code is adopted to protect new development and it also by protecting that it tracks new development and also uh it sets standards for the for these developments. One of the things that one of the one of the systems that we set up when we were at Glo the economic development department set up and I really was impressed with how bring developers in and go through the process or what needs to be done on the development sites and and knowing what standards are set by the city helps these developers in deciding if they can put their their developments in. We also um the other thing on this is we don't penalize we don't existing developers like Paul was saying there's quite a few parking lot and so forth. We don't make these people go and put new parking lots in unless the use changes. This is a new use. It also increases the property value. But the biggest thing that the city looks at as far as engineering and from technical site the city. So one of one of the things that we look at is runoff or detention. This particular site is a perfect candidate for runoff because and that would be through non permeable surface which you know simply asphalt concrete something like that something that the water doesn't

soak through. The other option um when you talk about crushed granite I don't like decomposed granite because it has too much dust in it but crush granite it has it has to have a detention area for that site to soak into. So part of that lot would actually have to be towards engineering and that would be all be done through a through a drainage study that's done through a certified engineer and submitted to the city but I I but I looked at the site the best option for this is a asphalt and it's because uh I can talk to this because when I was with AOT we put in a huge drain right outside that property. We used to have trouble. There was stoppers in that area and we took those out of this huge drainage area the current scers kept getting plucked up with the sediment and so forth and we put that big system in and even though the city I think John maintains it periodically takes the gravel and stuff out of it but you know it has a huge storm sewer with that grading that that we're able to get the The optimal way on these sites is to get the water to the sto. You don't want soaking unless you have to then also the road together because those two things are on a gravel parking lot are just terrible when it comes to safety because it washes the the gravel and and so forth down on the road. It's a constant m issue

and um you know and not safe for the public or investment. So the other thing is is since commercial parking lot it needs to be ADA compliant that's hard to do with a gravel parking lot. It it is easier done with a parking lot and and then parking delineation with a gravel parking lot or a crush granite parking lot, you would have to put in probably some sort of paper system for delineation lines within parking areas. And then of course, like I mentioned, the traveling public, you know, we have so many cars going up. I think there's like 32,000, I believe that's count on that road that goes through there every day. And we or even worst case scenario you probably worst case scenario actually the reason we put it in there is because there you know flood there would be 6 in of water which would make a hydrop. So um then the next thing is the private for public property. We damage for runoff is always considered um for private property. We have to protect the properties around. We do have properties that we weren't able to put asphalt in because uh because the runoff was so great that uh that it would damage the properties around it and there therefore we had to put some detention and the crush I think deco against my better

judgment. But anyway, this particular lot is perfect for asphalt because it has a run off to the storm source. They they shouldn't have any problems and this will reduce the accidents. We have better visibility because especially if you put the decomposed granite or the gravel in there on top of water, you're going to which causes dust in that area. You don't want dust on US and then you know close to my heart because I'm still the flood plane manager for the city. Um this run would give you flood plane compliance. We wouldn't have to do the the norise or the farmer on this property. I looked at the property right across the street at the bank that we just did the engineering studies on and I'm confident that this this uh this property would not need the engineering studies done. And then of course last but not least is reduce cost reduced cost from maintenance and reduce resources from both the development and the city and and AI as well because they keep this as well. So, I'll stop there and I'll answer any questions that you have and thank you. Why don't Hey, Jerry, this is Tracy. Why don't uh when you say that you don't want it to want water to be able to soak in, why? In in an area like that, you have to have detention on site for for the entire site facil. So you I

I would have to look at a study for that area, but you would have to have enough detention to cover the site. You don't want to run out on the road. So um you unless you're controlling to the storm range, you can't do that with gravel or decomposed you. But but the detention period would probably take up I'm guessing Tracy probably a third of that lot. I would have to you know I'd have to study it what they call a headrest model that would do that. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Jerry, so I know that you're very serious about your job and I, you know, know that you are really looking out for Globe, but I still come back to with regards to the 1998 codes that we're going back to. So everything that you just said, why wasn't that ever addressed previously? Why wasn't that ever where the someone from the city contacted the owner and said, "Hey, this is not being enforced right now, but we're going to be enforcing it. You need to look at that why has it been 20 years later that now we're having this conversation? Well, I I I think that it's good to see but yeah, I I think to answer that is our economic development and our development staff has really increased over the last 20 years or even in that case 40 years. Um, our code has been updated to meet uh standards that that are higher than they were before. I mean, we used to have building permits that were okay by

staff that didn't even have the permission to do that. So I we we've come full circle and we we've got to the point in the city where we're competing for adult developments and so forth and those type of people are not going to come to the city if we're just letting people do whatever they want to do. I think we're going to lose some people like Mary said if we have were we're nothing but turn into some kind of Tempy or Chandler or Scottdale. There's an individual charm for us with regards to our raw lots and stuff too. is with our property and I get what you're talking about is that over a period of time we do have to make sure that things do start getting complied with and you have to start somewhere which is going to irritate anybody who has to go through this process but at the same time there needs to be alternatives for some of this to be thought out with as well I mean even we have people who are grandfathered in they're still not compliant however the issue that you're talking about the drainage and the rocks falling in and ADOT's concerned that's going to be for every lot that Paul just got through talking about regardless of whether it's grandfathered in or not. So, I want to try and find something that is a more of a solution or of a benefit to everybody concerned. And I know you've got a big enough brain to do that for us. Well, I you know, when you go down to I'll just do dollars and cents here. When you go down to crush granite, you put crush granite on this site and you give up the extra area for detention. You're losing parking spaces, but you're also having to put a ge underneath that that crushed granite which holds it in place to keep it from on the street. Okay, you're you're nearing the price of asphalt by by the time you put it in. I mean, I

put it in parking lot in bigger cities and it was pretty comparable. I mean it wasn't that much less than putting an asphalt in asphalt that's less maintenance. So I I realize that's a huge cost and um but I really believe it might be the best solution on this this this site. I but you know it's a commercial commercial on the site and it's a new use and it in my opinion Deb should be upgraded to our current code and our current standards. I I I believe that and and when I questioned some of the other sites, I was told that we were not going backwards and um and enforcing anything as far as citations and so forth that those sites were I'm going to say maybe not grandfather because that's kind of backward but they were there was no use. Let's move that way. Thank you, Jerry. Didn't I hope I answer your question? Close enough. Art Jerry, give Could you give me just a little more uh detail on what it takes to uh prepare for crush granite when you talk about uh uh compaction? Could you speak up just a little bit? Okay. I'm sorry. Apologize. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay. So, just a little more detail on crushed granite and the preparation and the substructure compaction that's

required to uh to do it. I know you you you said that the costs probably come out fairly close, but if you could just maybe elaborate on what that takes. Well, you you have to put in the subgroup 8 in of base I'm sorry 8 in of and then it'll take two or three inches about 3 in of crushed granite and a geogra on top is my experience with the last that I put in and the geog probably runs $3 maybe a square foot something like that and that's that's probably installed and the crush brand probably another two or three and asphalt is probably going to run seven yes and I I haven't priced that out in a long time so but understand I I just I just know we did it before the developer um and this is when the developer was shocked on how close it came to. Thank you. And and you still have to have the same curve and gut so you can maintain the biggest thing you're giving up there is is property. I mean, you're not going to be able to develop part of that parking lot because of the detention. You know, if you put If you put something like gravel or crush granite or even decomposed I don't like that because it's so dirty but u but anyway you put any of those down you have to have the attention on the site you can't you can't just let it

run over it I mean that just be poor engineering to let that go so so the object of using that is for it to soak in and have time to do that and you and that's either done through a detention area or retention area which means it pulls through a pond or a permanent water structure wasn't the lady that was here for the last she did that report wasn't she like Jerry were you ever furnished a copy of the report that was brought to our attention the last meeting we had remember the lady's name off the top of my head. Yeah. Were you have you had an opportunity to get a copy of that report to review that with what her findings were? I No, I haven't seen that. So, who did that? Taliho engineering. Rachel. Rachel Hans. Taliho engineering. I saw the site plan that she submitted. There was I I saw the engineers comment, city engineers comment. I read through that. I I thought we were I thought he was a little inath in the drive which is probably done and I I I believe the city backwards to be honest, but that's just my personal opinion. I I'm not going to require any kind of engineering study as far as drainage on it because I've already drainage across

the street and I'm not going to requir [Music] Okay. Thank you. capable and willing to sign off on that with a nonable service. And I had that discussion with Paul too. He asked me to make sure that compant is not in the flood plane. It's in the flood. And I know that doesn't make sense, but FEMA hasn't reapped anything, so it still is in. No further questions on that. All right. Thank you very much, Jerry. We appreciate it, Jerry. Thank you. Thank you. And you. All right. We're going to move on to D. Continuence of the May 21st, 2025 discussion and possible action on the request for a conditional use permit to allow commercial parking lot in the C3 Central Commercial Zoning District pursuant to zoning code 14-5-12B3C located at the property address of 990 North Broad Street, assessor parcel number 207-15-118, case number UP-25- 02. two Dana. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Commissioners, I appreciate you. As you mentioned, this is a continuation from your uh agenda on the uh May 21st, 2025 where you did hold the required

public hearing for condition use permit on this request. Um so at that meeting, the planning zoning commission did questions uh regarding uh the commission's ability to make modifications uh that were might be contrary or above and beyond what our current zoning ordinance requires. Um I provided a memo in response and update to the commission as well as to the applicant. Uh also uh what was discussed was uh the applicant had additional information they'd like to provide to continue to uh provide justification for continued established use on that property. And you see my analysis there based on the information provided. The city just has no recognizable approval or acknowledgement that that was was for commercial purp other other things that have been occurring over the years. Uh you have that analysis. I'm happy to have further discussion on that. Um and then also finally um we also addressed uh one other item on that analysis which uh improvement requirements and uh that Jerry for the most part just covered including uh fire code with regards to servicing for their fire apparatus they take access on propertiesistent code uh as well as our building codes that we enumerated there in that memorandum to

help you understand what the city's codes were that applied. Um so that said um as was determined you know this city can't commission city council myself administrator uh really don't have the authority to modify adopted codes on basis or situational basis for one property owner not something like that. So uh the process to do that is uh through looking at tax amendment and modifying the code so the entire community has anybody with property or interest has the same same luxury ability to of whatever code modification applies versus just one particular property. So in this case uh we do uh recommend the planning commission approve this condition as it has been presented to the uh commission on May 21st uh including the language that was updated in the memo. I do have one additional uh stipulation that I'd like to add to that request which is really just a clarification. Um the applicants the application provided it listed an address which happens to be the circle K address. This parcel not being developed uh has not been assigned an address by the city or tax assessor. So, we want to make sure I've added and I'll share our screen right now. One condition of approval to make sure that's that's clear.

right here. This CU we have condition number C applies to the identified as partial number 207 as described in the agenda uh number 2071 and not the listed on the report. We just want to make sure that's good or that property and make sure that's clear. Alternatively or in addition, I'll just quickly run through the other conditions remaining in compiance with the CP approval shown exhibit A which is the applicants site plan attached. I will share that right now as well and take you just quickly through that site plan. And that is basically these two paved areas. for that. You can see that the adjacent body shop has been utilizing cars, trash enclosures, and these two access points off street. And this tie into the existing asphalt on the adjacent Circle K is a unique boundary that kind of snakes through that parcel. between Circle A between Circle and this property. But the idea here is proposed here uh and have a seamless

appearance of a parking area for the purp and servicing uh any middle and walls as well. So that conditions include uh your staff be happy to staff is recommending approval as presented and happy to respond any questions you might have. in in a moment. We'll get to that. I've got Do you have a Are you on the uh out one of these? Would you please so we have record of it? We can do that. Does anyone have any questions for Dana or we can ask? We can let these people have a say. Yolanda, why don't you come ahead up and make your statement? Do we need to open? Oh, no. That's right. Because we're here. It's not public. Yeah, this is just public. Good evening everyone. Okay. So, I insist I cannot afford asphalt. That city is more than welcome to do it. If they want it, I'll give you permission. Go ahead and do the asphalt is not on my budget. If I do the compost

granite or the other stuff that he mentioned, the crush uh what is the name? The crush. Crush is going to be here in my budget already. So there is no way. He mentioned a lot of times the flood and we had our 100 year flood and nothing happened to that property. I don't know why he insist. He doesn't need living. He doesn't even live here. So he has no clue what happens in globe. You have to live here. I've been here 35 years. So I know how this town is. And so the city is more than welcome to pave it. I'll give you permission. If they won't pay, I can I cannot afford it. If if you I I count roughly 21 parking spots there. Would you be willing to give up a third of them in order to be able to do the crushed granite or decomposed granite so there could be a retention? No, I'm not giving my property to nobody. They're not giving No, I mean you lose the parking spots for the water to be able to to to soak in the required what's required. Unfortunately, the engineer couldn't come today, but I will have to discuss with her about the parking spaces. But I mean, it's like you guys, everyone lives in in Globe, you know, it barely rains. It barely rains and it's like, anyone else has a concern about the the flood? I wish I wish it rains because I love to garden and it's like I shouldn't be paying a high water bill every month. So if we have a flat, welcome, but we don't have flats. Glo is full of hills. So the water runs away. So I think uh they are over accelerating

the flat. There is no need for asphalt. There is no need for peppermint. There are options. The engineer clearly said last time it's going to be hot. The deco composed granite will hold the water better than asphalt. So there is more chance having a flat with asphalt than with the composed granite because it's going to absorb the water. So please consider that. There is no need for a question for you. So the plan that we're seeing on the screen here that says Tali ho on it, right? So this was the plan that you worked with your engineer to create. Is that correct? That's correct. This the engineer that I hired and this was for the crushed granite or the um composite granite. One or the other. Correct. The the thing that we learned from the city the former city engineer is that there has to a designated area for retention or detention of water and that's what I'm not seeing on the plan. No, it's not there. That's why I asked her parking spots. Yeah. So, do you do you know why your engineering group didn't look at the city's requirements for retention or detention when they gave you this plan? Because what I'm nervous about is that that engineering firm may have given you a little bit of false hope about what was possible because this plan was never going to be possible. She's been working with uh Dana and uh she's been emailing Dana, Travis, and Tony. So, they all they are all aware about this and they told me at the beginning, I need retaining walls and I say okay. And then they say there is no need. On the last meeting, they say they don't need retaining walls. And I was like, okay, perfect. Uhuh. But she's been working with Dana

on everything back and forth. He's been uh marking what he thinks is needs to be changed. At one point I saw the site plan and it was like with so many red boxes that need to be changed. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. very Hey, Terry. Terrible Ted at your service. Good to see you, my man. Uh, thank you for taking my comments. I can't. There's nothing I can do. The the thing before these guys is grant the permit or turn it down. If they grant the permit, you have to meet the conditions. And you just got to tell them I can't meet the commission. You can't. She doesn't. There's not enough money in the world to help her out. It's not possible to take a permit that's granted and do what it requires. It's simply not possible. She can't do it. If it was me, I'd say here, it's your type. You handle it. And by the way, you can handle Circle K, too. So, uh there's there's nothing to say. I moved here in 1992. This rule came into effect in 98. The property hasn't changed since I moved here. There's this fiddling around about uh grandmothering and grandfathering, which is ridiculous. If something's been

for I don't know what statutory is, 6 10 12 years in a certain condition, that's the grandfather's clause. I don't know where you find it in law and I'm not a lawyer. It seems to me her property is grandfathered in and she doesn't need to do anything that the city requires. She needs to do what she needs to do to make it more attractive, to make it better for Circle K. That's her responsibility. But you guys are stepping in the way, making it absolutely impossible. I I can't add any more to that. And I've sat so many for such a long time listening to engineers talk like old people. You know, old people tend to blather. Engineers seem to take a long time the older they get. And so far there's nothing been said here that we haven't heard before and you haven't heard before. So I wish you all good luck. You all bless your heart. I hope somebody comes down help you out. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Maria Salceto, good evening. Um, I'm Maria Salceto. I am a realtor. Um, I sell real estate in the valley and I sell real estate up here in the corridor. Like, I'm pretty versatile. I'm born and raised here. Part of that as well. Um, I think where I kind of have a little bit of a problem because I I have sat on the board of realtors and property rights. So, I work on behalf of homeowners, land owners, and different municipalities in order to help them with um, you know, really

what's going to happen. People move to Globe not to have uh, a Mesa, an AJ, a a Tempe. They move here because, you know, it's it's a simpler time. It works for their families. They love the fact that not everything is concrete, asphalt, and they have more of a a love for nature. Now, I am here only because I saw it online, you know, what you guys were going to be talking about today, and I was kind of just wondering, you know, that lot has always been dirt. I like I said I was born here so I don't ever even when yellowfront was in okay back in the day and we would drive past that convenience it's always been dirt um again 100year flood that is correct there was no problem there with drainage problems I know that a lot of properties did have you know issues but that one didn't have any problems um I And I really Yolanda is um you know she's been a client of mine in the past. So when I noticed it was that I kind of wanted to know a little bit more what was going on here. But from what I'm seeing, and I have not discussed this with her, but ever since she went into a lease, um I believe it was April of this year, there seems to be a little bit of a hiccup like, okay, we need to um now have a conditional she's not going to she's not building on the property. She's not going to do anything as far as enhancing the property in um a new development. she was going to let people park there and put their trash cans there that have been doing that probably for the last who knows how long. But it seems like ever since she went into a lease with them now everybody kind of has a problem with it. And I also noticed that now

that there's a development happening across the street that seems to kind of take place too like oh well we want to have something different here as well. We understand that people want to enhance things. We understand the economic development side of things. We understand um that people want to have a little bit of a different facade. But again, people don't move here for that. They move here because it's comfortable. It's not uptight. People love each other here. They have that we're just good old fashioned folks. So for me, I kind of look at it as, you know, property owners, they can't afford it. You know, there's other circumstances probably that Yolanda's going through right now that is not for me to speak about, but she can't afford to do that. So when we look at that and we say, well, we need to have all of this done. That that's not going to work for the I want to say at least 80% of the people in globe at least. they cannot afford to do it with everything else that's going on in in the political and the financial side of things in the United States right now. You know, I I really look at it as you think that people can afford it, but really they can't from a financial standpoint. And I'm sure she wants to enhance her property and try to help as much as she possibly can. But from just like being a realtor, I mean, I've sat on the boards. I've been at the state. I've done quite a few things. That's kind of unreasonable. I think it's going to cost her probably about $100,000 after I looked at everything. That's a lot of money. Not nobody I don't know of really a lot of people that have it unless they're coming in to redevelop a property. And she's not doing that. She's having them

parked there and put some trash cans out. So, as I said, I don't think this really came into play until she really signed a lease with people. And then when somebody caught wind that somebody signed a lease with something, now all of a sudden we want to make changes. And now that we're developing next door, now we really want to make changes because we think that they want to do something. So, you know, I think the bank's going in next door now, right across the street. So, I just think that there there needs to be a little bit more of the person who owns property in this town, who pays their taxes, who takes care of the properties, and make sure that they're kept well. You know, that needs to take a little consideration. You know, they the voters here need to really be listened to at this point. And I just think that this the the people who are coming in are kind of stepping over their bounds of some of the requirements that have been taken place. Just a thought. Thank you. Cheryl. I've lived on Blake Street since I was a kid and I've seen floods come down Blake Street and everything else, but it has never never touched that parking lot to where it did any damage or nothing like that. Um, and I feel like that this deal is just somebody wants it for a parking lot. And that's not right to anybody, whether it's her, any of these people back here. They shouldn't have to go through that

at all just because some developments coming in. And oh, we need that property over there. That would help for a good parking lot. And I think that's the only reason why this has gone on is because of that. But I've never seen that lot flooded. But I've seen it flood down Blake Street a lot. But never bothered that parking lot there. Even when it was the car lot Healey's and that's what I want to say. Can Can you do me a favor please and state your name because we didn't state your name for us? Cheryl. Cheryl Van Cleave. Van Cleave. Okay. I wasn't sure what the last name was. Thank you so much. Is it okay? Yeah, you can just give your name for us, please. My name is Rich Moran. Um, the only thing I think that really needs to be addressed is continued use because there's paperwork that it's been that and everybody knows that it's been that for at least 30 years, probably a lot more. But that that seems to be where there's some denial of continued use when that's that's what it is. because that seems to be the what's in the definition that's that's causing this to have to be done a different way. That's just my opinion and I'm no lawyer, but that's what it seems like.

David, can you maybe address the continually, but all of us have seen it with our own eyes. So, how do we how do we justify that this wasn't always parking lot when in fact we all know it was? I can um and similar to other areas in the community where you know trucks park where people park lots or vacant areas we just see a lot of activity obviously people cutting through uh this site forever. We don't have any record since the automotive uh sales left that anybody approved the use of this site boat parcel as a parking lot. So, so a continued it could be a continued use of an illegal activity of using a vacant parcel of land to park your car on or drive through or cut through to get to cert behind to just store cars. You know, it's a vacant lot and that's what people do on vacant lots in some situations, particularly in very urban scenario like this. But that doesn't mean it was ever legal or was ever ever recognized by the city or approved by anybody. We have no record of that. It's just a lot that grew into this activity now when we uh began code enforcement over two years ago. uh Yolanda brought brought to light that she's had a contract with with certain K um to let them use it trash enclosure and so forth. Well, so vacant lot trash enclosure or trash can uh serving an adjacent business on the site about principal use. So the reason why this came forward is that to establish principal use continue to use it as it's been

illegally used or not recognized by the city. Um he's going to use got a code in place 1998. Um that's that's the nature of it and I know it even recently I think didn't work out for some reason she did have a contract with with Circle K but um yeah that's how it's been. So, I think any improvement you see on that lot was probably likely occurred at the time of this being a um but no other use has ever been proposed. There's no property taxes being paid. This is recognized by the tax assessor as a uh uh vacant lot. it's not assessed for business or for uh shared parking or you know the activity that's been happening here that has been violation. So um that's that's why I can't determine that this is a continued use. If you did every lot that people have been parking on throughout the community could have that same argument. So no evidence maybe uh that the city recognized it or approved it in any way shape or form or said yeah we understand you're doing that go right ahead we just don't have that evidence and that would set by the president like I said many other parcels and properties behind a lot of our businesses particularly on 60 that just continue to use it use it as you wish and then this is a good image of just that debris Why? You know, this is an 8 hour right away. This is, you know, not an ideal scenario where you have effectively property just deteriorating into the city right away. That is that unsafe component that Jerry uh referenced

that material is coming out and it's filling up this rate and that maintenance issue that requires the city to go out and clean. So if you want to use the property, please improve it like our code is designed and that's the use permit that you have before you. I just can't stretch as a zoning administrator stretch the idea this is just a continu you know this should just continue. We don't have any evidence that it's ever been approved use. just I think it was convenience situation. So that's response to your questions but you know as probably you know relatively is in the flood so it's a difficult parcel uh to develop but you know at some point something will occur there. I'm talking about D. Just to classify, she pays taxes, property taxes. It's just not under a specific zoning or something. I just know the tax assessor has land, right? This is address. Okay. So, we have various problems with the asphalt. My personal one is that it's not kind of earth. Uh her problem is the expense. Although, everyone I've heard now a couple different times that it really isn't going to be that much cheaper to try to do like the crush or something along that line. But would it

be possible? We're we're held in code. The code says it has to be asphalt. So, we unfortunately can't just say sorry when it's not going to be that. So, if we vote in favor, it's going to be the asphalt, but can we get the staff to to work toward looking at other alternatives that would be kinder to the earth and and maybe not as expensive that would still meet the standards that for safety like for engineering safety and so on. Can we work toward maybe modifying the a text amendment to modify the code so it isn't so stringent that everything's got to be asphalt that there's no options and that's all there is to it. Yes, madam chair. I think uh what I hear you saying is the yourself and the commission's interested as well. Um direct staff to look at some alternative language and more uh pure community related kind of uh codes that address uh provide some alternatives to strictly asphalt paving in certain scenarios or situations. staff be happy to come back with a presentation and uh provide a discussion and language and research to look at. So that if we were to go ahead and if we were to go ahead and vote today and approve this as is C as then if you came up with alternatives and there was an amendment to the uh like the codes that right now require asphalt nothing but asphalt then then she could come back and request to to modify it because it's not like she's going to set it tomorrow start tearing this up and developing it's probably going to take months. Correct. The city modifi uh did do a text amendment and obviously there's a

process involved with initiating that and with the public hearing public notification uh and commission uh makes a recommendation to city council. City council approves the amendment to an ordinance to amend the text the zoning code. Um and in doing that with that text change and expanded there are more um I think dynamic codes out there that probably look at that if should something like that be adopted and by our code any property owner including this Yolanda could have immediate advantage to take or to take advantage of that that new language and new requirements or allowances for um the improvement of that property without the code um Yeah, we just need to make sure comply with that whatever improvement she did propose comply with that code. We do know I think what you mentioned also curve is right to keep what we're looking at here from entering into causing that life safety issue and maintenance issue for uh city and floodway uh flood control structures there. Um so obviously those things don't change but that surfacing component I think plans are developing. That should be a big change to plans once once she has those civil uh drawings prepared and approvable by the city. I would suspect thatbody else questions or comments back.

Um, my name is Maria Sal. I'm just back up. If you only want asphalt, is there any way that um see because I I to be honest with you, I don't really think it's really the asphalt cost. It's going to be the engineering cost that's going to cost a lot of money on that. So really, when the new drainage system, because you you look at the drainage that's here on Blake, that's really the drainage and they're saying it's getting whatever is happening there. Correct. But your drainage system that's going to go in there is what's going to cost the money. All of that um is going to take place. So I mean in reality um the asphalt's of course going to cost quite a bit of money. I mean maybe if the concrete's going to be a lot of money. We know that. At least I know that. And I know that uh the crushed granite's going to be expensive just like the actual um asphalt. But maybe a uh refurbished uh tailing of the of the asphalt. You know how you have like the the regenerated asphalt type of thing? That's actually what I'm kind of asking. Come back and give us options. So on on that, well, what I'm saying is maybe that could be a little bit easier for her. But I don't even think that's really going to be the cost piece. I think it's going to be the actual coming in and putting in a whole new drainage system for you. that's going to be the part that's going to be extremely expensive for her. So, I think we need to look at that cost. Um because that that doing the engineering, getting all of that done is going to be what's really extremely expensive. Just doing this work before knowing that that is the big cost that you're going to have. It's not really going to be you're going to have obviously the asphalt's going to be expensive, but really your drainage system and your reconfiguring

of how you're going to do that part there is what's going to be very expensive for her. So, if he could consider that and figure out a different way, that would be probably the more ideal thing along with maybe the asphalt piece. So, thank you. Can I ask our staff if we are required that from what I understand so far is we're not requiring a full G&D process for this this lot at the moment so including new grad elements on this besides just getting but yeah I think it's that little more floodway analysis being in the floodway obviously there's a higher level of drainage report detail that could be required. Um, yeah, but definitely curb elevation, right? The fundamentals of of any parking pal. We do want to get off the site into that. I'm sorry I have to interrupt. We I'm having trouble hearing you. We just need a quiet room if that's all right. Thank you everyone. Dana, could you pick that back up for me? I'm sorry. Sometimes this headset drops or let me know if that's a problem. No, you're fine. Please continue. Okay. Uh yeah. So I think the reference to the So it's in a flood way, right? There's very strict regulations of what can be done in a flood way. Uh that is what Jerry's referencing might not necessarily need to occur. That's a very expensive process, detailed design or detailed analysis. We're curve gutter elevations and all your typical, you know, parking lot improvements that any other paid parking lot in the city.

Yeah. To control that landscape material to direct that water to keep from ponding on the property issues of the asphalt and and uh mosquito issues, things like that. Um really keep in the landscape area the water flooded flowing to correct drain structures that are right away. Does that answer your question? It does. Thank you. Yeah. I just want do we have something here that's requiring like a a new drainage system? Right. And that current plan that you saw, it is showing elevations getting there. But obviously detail location show that apron the sidewalk ramp. You can see obviously this is not very uh in this case sidewalk. So we want to make sure That's that's 4% but in that in that scenario you don't need those right those are probably once you have cover then we don't have concern cars entering portions of property they should people fly right in the 60 and I've seen that go But anyway, yeah. So, it just, you know, clean it up a that's why

Jerry, can I ask you something? from I was I could easily take those and show that we're not and I was okay with that. But if we change the plans to something else, we will have to look at a green space and possibly even get on that because it's going to require some detention that I come from. Hey Jerry, uh the commissioner has a a question. Well, actually just kind of answered. I'm just saying because I thought you said in your presentation that you you were able to use the studies that were done across the street at the Wed block and so that we weren't required as minimum so that only applied to asphalt correct yeah so I I'm able to use the runoff calculations and that was fairly easily done but the detention is going to require a whole different engineering stud model that'll show the flow through that area. And what I do is I take the results from that and I So is that a requirement or it's not a requirement? I'm still not following. Well, he was saying that he if it's asphalt, he doesn't she wouldn't need the engineering study because he's already done it right across the street. Okay. if it gets changed to anything else then there has to be an engineering study because now you're dealing with a retention or detention for the water runoff. Okay. So that's what we're looking at. Thank you. And I think that would be a part of a discussion in text amendment too when you're looking at

okay we're talking about alternative materials. What is that? What are how does that affect me to run this with engineering? So that's what I did. Like I said, something we could explore. Typically, perfect services are going to put less water in the roadway, but again, we'll explore that with Jeremy and our engineering staff discussion. There are landscape areas here that I think um yeah we could probably work in some retention and that happens to be one of your water harvesting one of your recent received watercape areas to reduce the need for water. So the landscape you see here material ground you're able to depress those to capture some water can I ask real quick question Dana

I probably missed the detail but the the uh storm drainage would run to the current uh existing drainage rate. Is that where it would go or does it correct? You see the arrows on the screen here is directing all that water show how it pass. So we have to see the swailes and the the designs there and how that's going to occur. But yeah probably and that overflow into the uh through repression or scuppers similar to Hill Street School did this actually in the capture the landscape islands that they put in in the roadways but we were really trying to get that water in here clean as possible filtered as clean as possible to avoid that sedimentation that we're experiencing in that uh drain structure and then that that outlets into the wash across the highway Okay, thank you. Problem is we're getting material and have to go in there and pull that out of the safety at the intersection. So madam chair the conditions of approval obviously you know further discussion on our surfacing requirements directed staff we will bring that back to you probably uh first meeting July work with everybody else engineering and schedules

So, if we if we take a vote right now and we all we all vote in favor of this, even though we're not all all 100% thrilled about the asphalt, staff's going to do a review here, then she if things change, then she doesn't have to come back to us. If we vote no, what happens? If you vote no, she has the ability to appeal uh to the city council. So request you can do that with your approval I think as well. I think I want to ask a quick question on that just so it's clear to everybody and we're gonna make sure I understand this as well. What our executive session was on was were the roles and responsibilities of this commission staff and council but essentially it's because this is within city code at the moment everybody's hands are tied. I think it might be the easiest most lame way to say right that asphalt is our sle material at the moment for this type of facility because that is what city code states and until we change that this is it I think that has it in a nutshell okay good summary I just want to make sure that way because I also don't want to maybe potentially give some hope that if this had the council it may change the outcome at the moment Um, and I promise I've been spending a lot of time on this for everybody that's in the room trying to find the best most efficient way to move through this model of how this functions because we don't all do this every day. And so we're we're trying to find the best way to make this work for our community, not just again copy and pasting something that somebody else is doing somewhere

else. So I think that's why this may be their best course of action at the moment is to accept this plan as it is today and try to move full steam ahead as quickly as possible with looking at alternative paving methodologies and potential outcomes with also having alternative ping methodologies like Sherry was talking about it may require some additional studies we could go that route but that would benefit this site and anybody else in the city that's dealing with the same type of issues potentially now in the future Mr. Chairman, Madam Chairman, this is city attorney, please. Please do. Bill, go ahead. Yes, you are subject to the requirements of the zoning code, which because of the nature of this request, you have to require asphalt. And I understand that you're going to ask staff to look at alternatives. But having said that, it doesn't mean the staff has been inflexible. Staff has figured out a way to try to address some of the applicants concerns. For example, only requiring 3 in of asphalt versus the mag requirement of five. Not requiring on site, not requiring concrete path, and not requiring an advantage. The point being staff has tried to address the concerns, but yes, you are subject to the current zoning code. The current zoning code limits your expression to asphalt. You have concerns about how that applies to your community and you've asked staff to come back with recommendation about other alternatives and about a possible text amendment in a way that could be implemented with no guarantees to the in fact the public will agree the public opinion will agree

or the city council will agree but if the code is changed then that could be available to the applicant but there's no no assurances you Thank you. Questions. Do I have a motion? State your name, please. Yes. Melissa Martinez. I've been raised here and born here. And my concern is when they talk about the bank next door and that area right there where the water's going to run you Yolanda's property and the bank's going to share that correct to let that water what you guys are talking about versus right across. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So therefore if they have the engineer right next door as that bank then why can't they help Yolanda out at the same time? Because they're working right next door. They're gonna share the same thing. I know there's codes, but Yolanda has cancer and we're supposed to be a community that's supposed to be caring and making sure that things get done the right way in town, not pick and choose to who you want to do. And therefore, with this person that comes and says she has cancer and these people up here, this Jerry doesn't even live here and we live here. and knowing how this water runs, how this dust picks up, where it's coming from, we could tell more to Jerry as a community than him getting on there and say, "Well, this is how this should be done and this is how Phoenix is done." Well, we don't live in Phoenix. We live in a small town. We live in a small community. When we live in a small community, what's the word community if we're not doing nothing for anybody like Yolanda or anybody else that needs help? Why can't we go and get petitions? You guys

said that you couldn't find nothing. Why can't we go and get petitions for her for these people that have lived here all these years? Get signatures. Get what you guys need for this lady to be in peace so she can live her life. Yes, I understand that's her property. Yes, she has to keep cold. But on the other hand, you're someone that comes in for Phoenix and says something. Please don't keep attacking him personally. That's not necessary. But therefore, you know, doesn't matter Phoenix California. We're a community. We're supposed to stick together, not let someone else come in and say, "This is how it's going to be." Knowing that all this has been there 1940s, 1950s, 1960s. I was a kid growing up and we used to take that bus stop right down there. What you guys say about the concrete right there? You're going to do the same thing to the bank, but you're going to do to Circle K. Why can't we meet as a community for Yolanda and the bank? Because people are going to bank there and work together to do this instead of harping and saying, "Well, this is how much Yolanda has to come up and this is what she's going to have to do when this lady doesn't have that kind of money. Why can't we gounding if we have to so she can do something so she can get the money if she has to?" But on the other hand, where's the community? when you know when you talk about community and city of globe I used to work for the city of globe a long time ago so therefore it's like when I was here I don't remember all this but now it's like people that come in and say something and we're a small community and all these people are telling you what they've been through and how they live their lives therefore we should do something as community for her you know not pick and choose just do it together so We can have a small nice town to live and say this is Globe Arizona and put comments in there and

saying this is what we've done for this person that had cancer or whatever else or anybody else that needs anything like that. That's a community. But therefore, that's just not right because if we're going to share that kind of property with the bank and Circle K and they're right there, not too far away. and when about the water running, I'm sure we can do something about that. But all these years that I've been alive here, I've never seen nothing happen like what he was saying at all. And I'm sure that I could get a petition and people are going to put their signature and say that they didn't see that either. So therefore, we're going to have more petition, more people saying how they lived here, what happened here. you know, older than probably anybody else in this room that can tell the stories. So, you know, it should be grandfathered in so we can help you L and help the community so we can work together and at be at each other's neck and say, "Well, this is the amount of money you have to come up and this is what we have to do." I understand there's guidelines, don't get me wrong, but let's do as a community and work together. so we can make this town better than what it is now. All right. Thank you. I have a statement. I understand that everybody's going through crisis with regards to this and trying to help her. Okay. But I have to tell you that with the conversations that we've had, this is one of the most considerate group of commissioners that I have ever seen in the city of Globe. There's not anything that you're saying that we don't attempt to bring up or to ask questions about or to get information about. We are attempting to

assist the best we can. Still stay within the codes, which everybody has rules and regulations whether you have a job, whether you're working for the city, whether you're a realtor. Okay? We all have responsibilities and and rules and regulations we have to follow. So I would appreciate that we are trying to attempt to find ways to address this. It is not an easy situation. It is not an easy solution. It's not a guarantee for her. But what it is is is that this council that's sitting up here right now for your commissioners are attempting to find alternative ways and to help the community because every single one of us feel that this is a vital community and we all love this community and we all live here. So please keep that in mind as we're going through the frustration factors that are going to be coming up. Okay, that's all I'm asking. Thank you. Well, and I would say nothing is stopping the community from helping her do funding and doing all that. totally completely removed from what we're doing here. We're doing exactly what she said, trying to do the best we can and our options are very limited in this and so we are trying to put the option up there. If we say yes on this then then the study the staff study will go on then there could potentially be other alternatives but and if we Then you can take it to the council with council's like at the same point as us. The code says that's so the community can go and help and raise and fund raise and do whatever they want to do. That'd be awesome because you're right. It is a great community and you never know. You may suddenly say I got enough money to pay it if people win. Personally, I don't want it to be paid because I don't like payment. But that's my own personal opinion. So we're we're getting ready to take a vote on this. No one's going to be 100% It isn't because we're not doing the best we can with

what we're given to work with. And we have asked staff to to work toward other alternatives. And that's that's the best we can offer. I mean, there's no guarantees that anything will change. Dana, can you scroll down a little bit? I don't know if you've added an eighth condition or not. Okay, great. All right. Could you scroll back up again? Thank you. I motion to approve case UP-25-02 conditional use permit to allow commercial parking lot in the C3 central zoning I'm sorry central commercial zoning district at assessor parcel number 207-15-118 with the following eight conditions as outlined by staff I second. Have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Any oppos? Okay. Do we have any future agenda items or meetings? Uh no. The July meeting uh needs to be scheduled. Okay. All right. So, let me Yes. Yeah. Well, and I'm gone the night through the 16th. I don't have a special actually. You know what? I could get back the 9th through the 15th. So, I would be I would be here on Wednesday the 16th. 16th or 17th? Wednesday. Yeah, that would be Wednesday. So, I can

I will actually July 16th, but I'll be going visiting some relatives in Midwest, but I can probably still hop on somebody else. Dana, uh we we have staff that's uh key staff that will be gone that week. If we can ask to push that back, we can send out uh try and find irregular date in July. Yeah. 23rd and the 30th, you know, Wednesday. So, they were for me. Oh, now I'm married. I mean, but you can do it without me. I mean, I would like to 30th. Dana, what does 30th look like for you? for the year. Okay. So, it looks like the 30th right now tenatively will be our next meeting. Do I have a motion to make a motion to second? I got a motion in a second to All those in favor say I I thank you.