Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Paul comes over and goes, "So, you're moving." I hadn't even told a couple of people yet. I didn't say anything. Hearing for item B. Okay. That would be a miracle. That would be plugged in. Okay, hold on just a second. Let me see if I can get

Can I send it to you yet? Uh, yeah.

Just just because I know that So, it's six o'clock. Is Danny ready? Um, is that what you're confirming right now? He is uh calling not feeling well, but he is uh managing the live stream at home. If if you'll, Madam Chair, just give me one moment to um

No problem. He's good to go. Okay. Okay. I'm not sure how to do copy the link to you. Can I do that? Yes. Let's see here.

Okay. email.

Okay. Okay. I got you. I got you. Tell you what. Go is um All right. We'll figure out how to do it. You and I don't know how to get back. I'm sorry.

Oh, there you go. Forward this or add me to it. You want me to do it real quick? I can do it now. Now that I know where I'm at. There you go.

We're almost there. update. Uh, Commissioner Mary Lowry

here, Commissioner Art Warren here, Commissioner Debbie Cox here, and I have Commissioner Justin Oavdo on line. We have a quorum. We have a quorum. Very good. Okay. Our first uh item of business here is consideration to approve the December 3rd, 2025 uh PNZ meeting minutes. Does anyone have any questions, comments, concerns? Move to approve the December 3rd, 2025 planning and zoning minutes. Second. Okay. I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Nay.

We're all eyes. Motion passes. All right. Here we go. Public hearing and consideration for recommendation to Globe City Council of ordinance number 894, zoning code text amendment to update and expand the city's home occupation provisions for residential zoning districts. case number ZTA-25-01. Dana,

thank you so much, Madam Chair, commissioners. Pleasure to be here this evening and bring forward this of text amendment to the zoning code to expand and uh the existing home occupation regulations. As you're all aware, uh we've had uh multiple discussions on this topic here before the uh planning commission and public uh prior to this. I think I provided a list in my staff report of the dates that those had occurred and what had occurred at those uh separate meetings. And then leading up to I will share my screen right now. uh up to the February or July, I'm sorry, January 20th citizen review meeting, which is a requirement by statute prior to any community or municipality or county changing a code. They're required by state to hold a citizen review meeting and make that information known and provide Q&A questions uh answer and so forth um at that meeting which was held again on the 20th. You do have those uh synopsis if you will in a in a minute in the your staff reports. Be happy to dig into those as you need to. Uh and then obviously just to reiterate the process for reszone or a text amendment or any ordinance change. Um first uh we need to like I said hold that public hearing or a citizen review meeting. Uh even prior to that, we advertised that uh that public hearings associated with a text amendment or reszoning are required to be published in the newspaper uh more than 15 days prior to which we did back in at the end of last year and they ran earlier this month. Uh zoning text

amendments are unique in that they're required to be uh also advertised however the city might advertise including a water bill. that's explicit in that statute which we did for uh this this uh case. And then finally um uh yeah those public hearing public notices mailers and then we've also extended on social media to make sure obviously that's a bigger reach. Uh but statutes haven't quite caught up to requiring social media as an outlet for for for legitimate public notification. So with that, that's what's transpired up to this date. Like I said, this is probably the sixth meeting before you uh on this topic. And I think uh we at the last meeting on November 12th, uh some final tweaks and adjustments to the language uh were made and then we'll run through that today. Um, so the goals and I basically I'm just going to kind of roll through what your staff report essentially shows uh for the public's sake. Um, the goals of any home occupation or particularly here in Globe is to um code is to encourage business activities to expand the economy, provide needed services without impacting the surrounding neighborhood and preserve the peaceful enjoyment of residents property. And here in globe I think it's unique and that we are limited on our turnkey ready cost effective or uh valueoriented office spaces and business spaces. So obviously that having inh home or homebased businesses or home occupations is another avenue to encourage and expand our economy and have more employment in the community. Um so uh secondly we want to maintain and not alter the character of res residential neighborhood. So the proposed code before you as we've discussed and most

home occupation codes in the world are to keep it a home not change that character of the neighborhood because we can see things start to shift quickly uh if there is an inundation of certain businesses or certain activities for one business on that property might disrupt that neighborhood character. got examples. We can always get into that. But that's uh the second probably most primary principle of this uh after allowing people to operate their businesses out of their home. And then finally, protect against potential nuisances of business activity uh such as noise, vibrations, fumes, o dust, odors, off-site parking, and traffic. And that's standard uh really for everything we do in our zoning ordinance, but it's always reiterated in home occupation ordinance because it's putting things businesses in in neighborhoods. Um so they just want to make sure that that's reiterated. Um that's just an added layer of protection. And then finally, maintain public safety in the residential setting. We want to make sure we're not creating any potential hazards or traffic issues that could become additional traffic conflicts, stuff like that. Protect our neighborhoods, kids running, playing on the street, stuff like that. So, typical home occupation standards uh we outlined our permitting and licensing requirements. uh list of permitted and prohibited uses, maximum number of employees on site unrelated to the resident uh home or business owner. Uh area limitations for the use on the property, so limiting like the whole house can't be used and that's not uncommon. Uh limits on storage, display or advertisement of business. Uh limits on increases to vehicular traffic and parking uh not customary to a single family neighborhood. And then finally, nuisances prohibited uh and compliance to city codes. So that's somewhat consistent with kind of those overall overarching kind of goals that we

touched on just previously. Our existing code is basically a definition in our zoning definitions, zoning ordinance definitions. And it's just a fra it's a uh paragraph if you will that summarizes all of this in a single paragraph um with you know conjoined sentences and things like that. And that's the problem. That's one of the problems. I'll touch on a few of the others with the existing code. And I will also back up if you recall and I guess for the public's uh uh sake. Um this started through a discussion on a use permit early last year a little later than this time last year where somebody mentioned well I want to do uh swim lessons at my house. And I think that was the impetus where planning commission directed staff say yeah what let's take a look at that. Is that is that an option? Is that something we should we should do? Um, correct me if I'm wrong. There might be more, but I think that was primarily the the how that stemmed and maybe some discussion on maybe that use permit and what could this be done as a home occupation and we won't get into those specifics of that case because this applies to everybody uniformally in the community. So um so that said current home occupation uh there uh no permitting or license requirements beyond city business license review um which is the same with with exception to a use permit opportunity in the proposed code which we'll touch on. Um allows the principal use as a residence uh no sale of stock and trade uh professional and semi-professional offices secondary to uh to upon the premises um to the premises. So, it allows as a uh basically semi-professional offices and uh uh professional and semi-professional offices. And that's a very narrow relative to what we're going to discuss

in the proposed code. Um you know, what you interpret to be a semi-professional use or professional use um is, you know, could be would probably prohibit if that was strictly enforced most current homebased businesses, home occupations in the community. Um so yeah the ex so just based on our experience I'm familiar with home occupations and some of that fundamental criteria that we just discussed and what kind of activities could possibly occur within that uh beyond the professional and semi-professional statement in this. So, we have permitted those. Um, as a matter of fact, and I think I'll touch on it later, I can I can think of maybe four or five home occupation requests in my five years here um that might have been denied. Some really offthe-wall, but the one was was that swimming uh swim class

and that was based and that's the only one that really stood out or had and that was based mostly on traffic, wasn't it? Like like the traffic.

Exactly. Correct. Correct. When you're doing classes and people coming and going and there's a few other interesting things with swimming lessons, you want to make sure that there's barriers and stuff like that. We didn't get into that with this code, but I knew other codes would say, "Well, if you're doing something like that, we need to ensure that you're going to have fire marshall out there to inspect the per the perimeter fence meets uh pool enclosure requirements, current state pool enclosure requirements or the current municipal. We don't touch on that, but I'm just letting you know that's just kind of my experience in that world. Obviously, safety again is, you know, you only get one chance to do that one, right?" Um so uh and then you can always you know update codes down the road and things like that if you see issues or more concerned you know this is the process to do it. So number three our current code uh uh doesn't allow uh no more than one resident of the premises can be employed. Uh the new code expands on that. I'll touch on it. you're allowed to have uh a resident I think all the residents but from outside is what we're concerned about because they're traveling and they're driving to the property and they're creating trip demand where a typical single family home will demand 8 to 10 trips a day. Um so once you start to add on and that's that common topic of that traffic to that site and parking where are they going to park? Are they going to occupy the street? If you have narrow streets in certain situations and places you want to make sure those things are addressed. So, um, so currently our code doesn't allow that. I think our new code allows one, uh, employee and probably possibly two even maybe by use permit, I believe, is how it's written. We'll get to that. So, really, every standard that's proposed is much more relaxed than what we're looking at today. So keep in mind if the city was interested for, you know, or had down the road some

administration is in the position to we need to crack down on all of the home occupations in the community or something random like that. Um well, this language right here would prohibit most anything but a professional semi-professional office. So that's not the code you would want in place. it's not explicit enough to allow the current uses that are operating happily in the community. Uh so um number four, no more than 1/4th of the floor area of one story. So a quarter basically the building that or not to exceed 400 square ft. Uh and it must be entered from within the dwelling. Very detailed. It is consistent with most pra with typical practices to limit the area. Again, if a entire house is used for an occupation, you're changing that character of the neighborhood potentially and that's pretty intense. Um, so that's just a standard. Uh, we've lacked that significantly. It just says 25 uh% of building or out structures as well uh uh in the new proposed language. Item number five, the residential character of the dwelling is not changed by set business use. No signs may be erected or maintained outside said dwelling to advertise any business or occupation and we're consistent with that in the new code. That's just the fundamental standard as well. Uh does not cause any parking or traffic congestion in the immediate neighborhood. Again, that's that's the primary focus. We don't want to change the character and create potential issues for traffic and parking and things like that. Uh then finally uh does not cause any sustained unpleasant or unusual. So the same uh nuisance regulations are in our current code. So again we're going to roll into um I think I've got another slide and then we'll get into the proposed code which is very much uh improvement to that I

think a very current uh ex uh home occupation code for for globe. Um nature of existing home occupations in glow most they're mostly home offices for administrative support of off-site businesses like your janitor or some sole proprietor uh 1099 type of employee that goes to locations to do their work. They just need to operate. They need a business address. So they use their home address usually and obviously they're doing their accounting or whatever business administration they need to do uh for their business. That's by far uh most home occupations. Um yeah, so I point out just such as contractors and other off-site services. Now, group homes is one that I've defin I can think of maybe 10 or 15 in the community. Uh if you recall about two or three years ago, statutes changed and said cities this is how we regulate you need to regulate a minimum standard for group homes. So we had to adopt that. Yeah, I think at that time we adopted for the most part the stat the uh League of Cities recommended text for that. Um but they basically carved out group homes to be protected in the neighborhoods and could have like up to 10 and it's it's for elderly or um or handicap is how the statute was written. And then we also provide through a use permit a portion for group homes for uh more behavioral types of scenarios uh uh or or uses because that's in our opinion would need some greater scrutiny and uh review on what exactly is that behavioral uh situation in the neighborhood and neighbors would want to know that usually so we just provide that. Now, you recall there was some issues with group homes in the state.

Um, in a community that I had uh been working for at the time, we had a conglomeration on a single block of people opening up the same group homes. So, it just became this concentration because they didn't have the distance requirements. That was prior to actually that statute. the statute came into effect and said, "Ah, I'd separate them because we saw entire blocks be consumed for, you know, one group's economic opportunity or business venture where they would start to have a lot of different treatment vans showing up or other activities and started changing the character. So, for that reason, part of the statutes that changed uh were to say, hey, no group homes can be within 1,200 ft of one another." So, and that's consistent when you want to avoid a concentration of any certain use in a neighborhood, distance separations are required. And same within commercial areas for certain they used to do it with like tattoo parlors when that wasn't or smoke shops and stuff like that. They would start to massage parlors. Um, they would start to separate those. So that's how zoning looked at separating red light or as avoiding a red light kind of scenario in a community and that's very common. That's a public safety situation. But anyway, not why we're here tonight. I'm just painting that for you. Hopefully it helps a little with why we separate certain uses from one another. Um and then uh so we largely see baking and confections. That's a big one. uh between that and the crafts for people doing and selling at our events and na and throughout I think the state uh great that's a very common um use home occupation and then finally business related visits uh are limited to no more than five trips per day that's how I would interpret it let's you know take a look what your use is we know you can't sell anything on site that's not what that no stock and trade is very clear in that code and any home occupation code you don't want again the trips

generation occurring there. So anyway, um yeah, but that's pretty much how I would regulate them, uh given the antiquated current ordinance that we have. So proposed provisions, um I hop right into them. Uh so that's just a statement. I've got all of the texts laid out here. Happy to dive in on any particular topic as we get there. As you know, uh this is a public hearing. So after commission's discussion, initial discussion or questions of myself, we'll open up a public hearing, uh hear from the public and then close the public hearing and then deliberate and then you're welcome to make a recommendation if you're comfortable doing so. So

how many licenses do we have right now currently for home business?

Good question. I know as of a couple years ago about 70% of all our businesses were not in a brickandmortar location. So that's between homebased businesses and um and out of town contractors. We require business license for all those things. So just based on what I've seen and had to reissue or would come around oh it would be a fraction of that actually. Oh maybe 150 200. Uh we don't we haven't uh specified or or carve that out in any way. It's like I'm at home. Sorry. Um yeah. So yeah, we uh I think probably the new the new licenses do have a is this a homebased and then we kind of track that. I track um the the group homes because of that separation and it's something you want your fire PDware of. So where are the elderly?

So is it possible with the text amendments and stuff that we're looking at now? city, etc. Is there a way to do a list so that we can maybe anticipate for future years, what growth may be in case text amendments have to be changed where we know what percentage of this kind of home base, this kind of home base, so we have a breakdown of that when they apply for their licenses. We can discuss that. We should have some sort of at least know what all our home occupations are and where

well at least we know if there was a trend setting and more coming in at this particular kind of occ where we might have to change something again sooner than we anticipate.

Absolutely. Oh, we can do that. And then keep in mind we hear it too. So you've pretty much heard the things I've been asked to allow in the community and stuff and it's very few. So usually you'll I'm sure hear it too like we we need to do more of this. We watch that. But generally speaking, oh yeah, we'll definitely dissect that. I've seen similar codes for 20 years and I it's you can almost put anything that comes up within one of those uses because again it's they're operating their house. They have limited employees. They don't have anybody showing up and they can't sell out of that. So, you know, the biggest one is like the eBay and the Amazon or any type of shipping like that where then might they that's been one of the bigger changes that we've seen, but you don't see a gross amount of delivery trucks then all of a sudden um I haven't or you know and then keep in mind um any home occupation current or future uh it's uh compliance is is is complaintbased. So if there is an issue, we usually don't know about it until a neighbor's like, "What's going on over here?" That's usually how it comes up. They're making noise hours a night. We hear machine running. We're smelling smoke. What What are they doing? We go over and inspect. They're working on cars. That's prohibited. Stuff like that.

We know the information on what the trends are coming up or you see future changes that might allow the city of Globe to address those issues before they end up coming into complaint status. if we see changes that are happening because of what you might hear in the community or so forth. So I would like to see the categories and breakdowns like that. Thank you.

Got it. Uh but again, I'll just reiterate city any home occupation is strictly complaintbased. If we're going to look into something, it's not because we're looking for it. We've got plenty of stuff to do. And again, it's hard to tell. So don't even waste your time in my opinion. let a phone call come in, find out, document what they're talking about, and then go check it out. Nine times out of 10, you won't you won't have an issue. Who who would investigate a complaint like that on home base?

Uh, well, I'm zoning administrator. I'm responsible for that. So, I'll talk to staff initially. So, it was going somebody Well, we just met with this person. This is what they said. They said there is horrible odor coming from this property. Can you go over and verify that? And that's how Nope, I didn't smell anything. All right, then. Oh, well, let me know. Then you get another complaint. So, that's that's how it goes. So, uh the proposed provisions all home based or all home occupations in the city should uh comply or would fall under these regulations. Residential character maintained, no dwellings. So, we're just reiterating a lot of this stuff. I'll spare you from reading on all this. Let me know if I need to dig in. Public can obviously read it. Uh but I will get into this use is permitted and the use is prohibited. We'll just go one by one. If anybody has question happy so permitted uses home occupation zoning clearance and that zoning clearance is through business license because we require business licenses for about anything in the community. That's where I get to see it. Say yep. What are they doing? Oh, ask them these questions. Nope, we're all good. Let it go. That's typically and I haven't learned what the triggers are. Um, so first professional offices and remote online telecommuting services did have one individual write me and say, "Wait a minute. Does that mean I can't work for my b my company out of my house and telecommute?" No, that's not unless it's your business and you still can do it, but it's not your business. You're working somebody else like a lot that's not hopefully that's clear to you I didn't explain offices for business administration such

as journ or similar services again that's most our business license today tailoring millery that's a little old school but um just we want to make sure if they were making boots and stuff like that without you know that limited area not a lot of noise or anything that could be heard crafts again dress making totally permissible handicraft such as weaving leather work and so forth that's again a lot of our businesses uh and these two I think are the a bigger topic of uh discussion probably for this evening and have been uh through the our discussion. So number five the daycare of more than four children but less than 10 requires an Arizona an approved conditional use permit. So, presently we don't have any regulation. You saw the home occupation code. It doesn't say anything about daycare or anything like that. Um, I don't know that I've even seen a request for it in my five years. Uh, the the swim, yes, but not that. So, anyway, um, basically up to four, we don't care. You don't need a business license. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not interested. And that's for children that aren't related to the occupants or a dependent on the occupants. Um, and this code is like that. And other codes are like this because the state then has regulations that say if you're caring for five to 10 children in a home, they cap it at 10. No matter what, they don't always. If you're caring for more than five to 10, they have the DHS has requirements and a license and process like that. So, that's where we draw that line. And if they want to do that, great. We can do a use permit. We can take a look at it. Just make sure there's not a bunch of others in the same neighborhood or we've

getting that separation. So, okay, 10 kids going there. Does the neighbor have one a neighbor? So, we're going to start to see a possible situation that neighborhood. But the use permit allows you to look at that and consider any potential issues. For instance, DHS says, "Hey, you should you need, I think, certain play area inspections, background checks, things like that." Great. We don't care. That's what DHS requires. We just want the ability to say, "Well, you got 10 kids. Where are they going to all be outside running around yelling? If so, we'd like your neighbors just to be aware because if we get complaints after the fact, um, we want to know we went through this public process and you an opportunity and then you also have that opportunity to readress if it's not going well, it's not working out like you thought it would. So that's the purpose of so in your packets I think it's a uh I um attachment a uh C is DHS uh PowerPoint slides on their process for that. So um all right so yeah um so for under the age of 12 excluding so anyway it just reiterates kind of that that um statute and other commonly understood a home occupation for daycare take care of more than 10 children including dependent stock is not permitted as occon and then they all left and then six kids came in after that total was 11, but they're not there all at the same time. Does that

I think it's at the same time is that idea. Again, I would defer to the state. If it came to me, I would say defer to the state, but uh it doesn't sound like it. It's that one time because I think it's a it's based on a hands per care, a critical mass of kids to corral or understand and follow the criteria for. But, um yeah, and again, all complaint based. we're not hearing about it, which I haven't heard about the home occup. So that's home day care. Any other questions on that topic?

Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to stick with five. Is that okay?

Um on number five, in the actual um ordinance that we would be recommending to council, there might be uh a typo in there. I'm not sure but in the actual item number of five the number 10 is not accounted for. So the first line says that the daycare of more than four but less than 10. That's 5 to 9. So that right there needs a a cup. And then later on the fourth line it says daycare of more than 10 is prohibited which we understand that's per state requirements but the number 10 itself is not accounted for. So, does 10 fall into the should it actually be uh the first line? Should it actually say the daycare of more than four children but less than 11? Is that what that should say to include that number 10?

Well done. Yes. Oh, I got a gold star. Did you hear that? Good girl. That wasn't my intention. I said up to 10 at one point.

Yes, that's it. It's a very small typo. So, yeah, that's all. Great catch. All right. Um, then moving on to six, instructional classes. So, this is different than what we just discussed. I think if somebody had a home daycare and they educated children within their daycare, great. Have fun. Lucky them. That's fantastic. But that daycare is that is the primary use, is the qualifying use. Um it's maybe somebody says I strictly am going to have kids come and do these instructional classes like swimming. Um but I don't consider that daycare. I wouldn't term that as daycare. I wouldn't put that in category five. That would be c item number six just to clarify. So instructional classes and this by far I haven't seen another similar code like this this liberal or this get uh generous in any code. And I'd love to you research on so instructional classes not seeing five students at any one time. Uh for again that's controlling the trips per day. Well trips at one time like peak time something like that. Um uh for home occupations with more than one class per day uh the site shall the site location shall be no closer than 600 feet to another instructional class. So great if you're doing one class but once we see that three that multiple class cycle now we're getting a lot of traffic uh potentially parking as well which they'll have to show us how they're going to park that many people if they're not kids being dropped off something like that. Um so that's the trigger and that's where we say okay 600 feet because 600 feet is generally the length of a block. down here we've got um but that's how you start to again avoid a density of high traffic home occupations back in the back of a canyon

or something like that um that could become potential traffic issue or or public safety issue for access and things like that and we just look at all those things because if they do want to do that let's see here okay great um yeah so 600 feet from one another uh class home occupation structure group home oh from the other the group homes and other things that require I think group home is the only other code that we have that has a distance separation they're 1,200 ft from group home again group home next to a daycare next to something else that's where you want to start set it's it's likely going to potentially be an issue

um or similar home use with a separation requirement. In no event shall an instructional class generate more than 24 daily trips to the residence. I think in my staff report I outline that for you. That's effectively uh excluding the use of the residents which it international trip engineering generation trip generation is 8 to 10 for single family residents. We're allowing 24 more on top of that. That's like four houses in one at a maximum. So, just want to make sure you're familiar with that perspective. And we're when I'm saying we're being very liberal with this. I mean, that's very uh I think our city or our city engineer and city leadership is comfortable with that. Um so that's any other questions on Um item number seven, uh mail order or direct sales provided. Again, we don't really care that you don't see a lot of the trips for deliveries will be usually packaged. You might get

I have a question about this one. How are we defining direct sales? And the only reason I asked that is it says, you know, mail without direct sales provided that no direct sales to customers occur from the residents. I'm like, well, but isn't that what we're saying is okay? There might be a typo in that. It's uh or on-site sales or direct sales to consumer. Can you give me an example of direct sales? Are we talking about like Mary Kay? Are we talking about like Avon? Are we talking about eBay? What are we talking about there?

Um, good question. So, I don't think I I've never heard of like the culinary parties, things like that. Now, if somebody's doing it daily, then there's probably an issue, but who knows? We wouldn't know if somebody complain about it. Um, but the direct sales is, hey, I make crafts. Come check them out and come see because that way you can't control the traffic, right? they're motivated to sell as many as they can and have as many people come to that property as possible to purchase their good. Um, and that's why all home occupations, our current home occupation code says on site sales or different.

So, let's say that somebody sells and I might have the brand wrong, but uh is it Lulao? I think that is like leggings and shirts buttery soft. They're amazing that people sell from their home and they stock that clothing in their home and then they sell it to people that come over and try it on. Right. So, is is that what we're saying is that would not be permitted per correct. We know that that happens all over the nation. Correct. Just like Tupperware parties, they stock the Tupperware in their closet and they sell it. They stock the Mary Kay in their closet, the Avon and they sell it. What I don't want to do is set our city up for failure by saying that something's prohibited when we know that it happens and it doesn't cause a nuisance. Does that make sense?

It does. So, this is stop gap. Now, if you said anybody can sell anything from their house now, what are we going to do? No. And and my that's why I'm trying to see how are we defining direct sales if we're getting complaints. There's a lot of traffic going to that location. I I can't carve out the guy who wants to sell watches. I I don't see that commodity as different as anything else that you can buy at Walmart. Sure. And it wouldn't be and I can't differentiate that just because of what it is.

Could we um could we uh maybe change the wording to to talk to onsite as opposed to direct or does that make sense? It does. Um because what we don't want to have is somebody starting a store that uh generates a lot of traffic. Correct. And we'll clarify that. Three times a week and goes and buys stuff from other places and then sells it in their yard. We've had a few those complaints. It's been a while. It's been a while. Thank Yeah. We've had to deal with that.

This is a little different though. This is onsite versus shipping out kind of thing. Yes. Well, we'll uh we'll update that language to be um it'll be mail order or uh or on-site sales onsite sales transactions. Thank you. transactions that no direct sales to customers occur. So is there no direct sales? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's it's implied that it's only that this would be um complaint based that that someone would go in looking and seeing what's going on. Should we not specify that it's complaint based or are we is that just implied?

Implied because you can't control down the road what some future administrator wants to do. I guess I'm I'm really struggling with putting a rule in place that I know is uh is already happening and and uh not not necessarily creating like when we when we went back and we talked about the intention behind updating this ordinance. It was to um maintain residential character and um not create nuisances, right? and regulate. But it was also to give the city some teeth if there is complaints to be able to go in and there's some repercussions if Yeah. if you're a problem and you continue to be a problem.

Yes. And that's why there's there's so many nice criteria around um all of the other stuff like daycare or you know uh crafts, but we're we're saying no direct sales. But we know that people sell those. I've listed some brands, which you know, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to list brands in a public forum, but we know that those type of sales happen. Um, so why why would we create a rule that prohibits something that um does generate income in a a noninvasive way in our community?

What if they're very successful doing that and they've got 10 people, 15 people coming there a day buying that? What if we just limit it to the number of employees that could go like we did in the other parts of this? And in addition to that, how much how much traffic can go through like we did in the other Got it. areas. That's good. Yeah, I like that. And then how do we limit that from being clocks or junk or things that people can advertise? Like I said, it could be a garage sale. So people can sell from their house as long as there's no more than five trips per day to the house.

They're comfortable. a kind of a meeting of the minds there maybe that would allow and keep from potential complaints coming up because we already know those businesses are doing that. I mean they're they're on Facebook posting, you know, so we're setting somebody up for failure either the city or the person who's doing it right on from the get-go. Whereas if we address it similarly how we would for somebody who's doing arts or crafts or whatever the case may be and limited the interaction like we did on those maybe well they take those to the event that they sell them. They don't right here we say dress making tailoring miller like that's all or somebody will come by and pick it up. Okay. So then you can sell anything from your house

that's given you're licensed elsewhere because later in the code you're not allowed to uh you're not allowed you're to have more than five trips specific to the business disruption to amend right okay all right that's another first I think that well it's good and my intention isn't to like create precedent out of this we want to follow best practices but if we're talking about handiccrafts I mean that could be somebody knitting a blanket how is that different from selling Avon lotion. Like it's it's so this this is such a side business, side hustle kind of thing. Yeah.

And I don't want to dampen that because that especially in today's economy can supplement a lot of families incomes. So uh mail order and direct sales uh may occur from the residents and remain in compliance with the rest of this code and that's what that with the provisions that we did before says five maximum five trips per day. Correct. Okay. Now

I could see that being obviously there could be a that would definitely put an onus on the city for code compliance. So, we'll have to monitor that when something somebody's like, I don't need my business anymore. I can just do this out of my house up to five until I get in trouble at least. But anyway, just keep in mind then the the onus is definitely on staff to respond to things that well and most of the time those kind of businesses are not going to be the predominant number of the businesses and they're going to be small and somebody who sells whatever and that's why it's a if it's complaint based then you know they're doing it it's not bugging anybody

is it you know a problem but I hear you I'm open I do know this will be the first I will warn with that that I've ever seen. And that that now gives me pause because, you know, we we want to honor what best practices are. So, what I'm hearing you say is in your experience as a zoning administrator for multiple different municipalities, this is usually prohibited. Correct. PAC, remember the three and I can pull that up. They had the three tiers.

So, if you want to sell from your home and it's in a residential zoning, great. you got to be fronting an arterial road or within a certain distance to commercial. So they put some additional build in some additional character related criteria like wait they're already highly accessible and already in a kind of a business situation. So yeah they can do more advanced home occupation work. Well they have more availability than we do too. I mean you go downtown globe there's not a lot that you're going to be able to either afford if you have a small homebased business like that. To me, there is no difference between this, what Mary was discussing with this kind of product versus, like I said, arts, crafts, metal making, whatever the case.

Well, they're making it. They're supposed to be manufacturing, not selling out of there because we know they go to the events and sell their stuff there. Now, you said dress making. Yeah, they might have somebody come by or maybe they who knows how they do that. I've never heard a complaint on somebody having too much traffic for either. haircut salon type of work of lady with the barbecue in her house. I've never Well, those are still You're a business owner. What do you think about this? Uh I'm a totally different kind of business owner. So, not even not even related. You have to come to my place and there are no traffic restrictions.

Okay. Well, let me ask you this question. Adding that into something like that, does that uh make more revenue for the city with someone nor might not have to get a business license because of it being something that they've just done on the side and so forth. Um, so they're selling something in the city. They should pay city sales tax. Well, that's what I'm asking. I mean, it's a product, right? I have to do a I don't see I don't think that's any different than brick and mortar how they have to report.

So maybe that's something that needs to be brought up in maybe a public hearing and with regards to would someone rather see maybe more of a open concept with regards to direct sales. However, the flip side to that is you're a business, you going to have to pay sales tax and you're going to have to require a license if you're doing something along those lines. So either way, I mean, we could either broaden it to what we were just talking about or just definitely leave it aside. I mean, how much more controversy is something going to cause if we're telling the Avon lady she's got to come in and get a business license to start paying sales tax on products? They have to anyway. They have to have a business license. But we know that's not happening currently.

Way we can't control over probably don't get half the businesses getting licenses. That's a honor system until they get in trouble for something. I don't like the idea of setting a new president without cause. So, uh, I'm struggling here with this one now. I don't know how you would again if you're digging into this across the state and a few other spots. Uh, after our previous meeting on this, it seems like what we have in front of us is kind of the the gold standard for allowing the city have all the teeth in the world, but it doesn't count on a complaint basis from the looks of it.

And that is what we asked for. We asked the city to research what the best practices are. doesn't mean we have to agree with them. It just means we have a standard to work with. There's nothing wrong with leading the way on something else if it makes sense. I'm not sure about this one. I was just basing my comments off of Mary being concerned with regards to uh the businesses that are there that we know are there. So, I mean, I'm not sure. I'd have to actually think on that a little bit longer. you and keep in mind what you said like in Gilbert Chandler anywhere else there's a lot of suburbs a lot of people with that side hustle going on and they have we search their code you saw

so maybe we wait for them to change it and then we can mirror let them go through the the legalities of changing precedent you know I in my time I haven't maybe want somebody because of I something random maybe guns or something like that, but I can't sell out of my house.

No, you can't. Stock and trade currently. Okay. But I don't have people annually. I don't get one ask. So, can I just sell this out of my house? Is that okay? I have experience. You know, I think what you might be saying, not to put words in your mouth, but why boil the ocean trying to cover every contingency, when it becomes an issue and it requires addressing, then we do it. But until then, we we couldn't write it distinctly and and clearly enough to

you can't you can't cover contingencies. So the the the complaint base the complaint base is what you got to go on. I I think the complaint base is is probably the good control factor for now. And you know if neighbors start to see a lot of traffic in their front yard there's there's your complaint and that that's when you address it. Yeah. Then you address it.

Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you Tracy. And keep in mind our police power for zoning is you know just like you can regulate the time place and manner something occurs. You can't differentiate you know the time place and manner but you can't differentiate one sales product versus the other you get into alcohol whole different world but anyway other than that it's very hard to pick on one particular item and not create a bad situation. So the decision is to keep the language as written team.

I personally don't have a problem with it as long as we stick with the complaint based.

Go ahead, Justin. Just agreed. Agreed. Thank you. Yeah. You know, I can see a little bit of difference between mail order and direct sales in that if you're doing mail order, I don't want the UPS and FedEx truck pulling up, you know, three times a day to come grab stuff. But direct sales for your buttery soft things. I can't imagine there's that much traffic over that. You haven't tried these things? Apparently not. Well, they have parties and they're usually off hours. Oh, yeah. But I mean, I could Anyone can have a party. So, I mean, unless they're doing it like every single Friday and Saturday night, blocking the entire neighborhood with parking, which I'm kind of doubting. I don't see that many people running to a Tupperware party.

So, we will change that language to number seven. Mail order on site uh mail order or on-site sales transactions are prohibited. I think we're saying we're not going to make any changes to the text that city has suggested. We're going to keep it as the best practice of what you've suggested. That's what I understood. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It reads correctly. I thought we had a problem with the first four words. No, that's makes sense. We did and then we changed our minds. All right. Sorry. Very good. No, this is what we're here for. Talked our way through it.

Thank you, Art. Uh item number eight, uses that entail food handling, processing or packaging of specialized minor cooking or baking. Like I said, that's that's not uncommon. We definitely have some bakers in the community. Uh businesses such as plumbers, uh electricians, contractors, pool service, again because they're affected latch repair, it's light stuff. Either way, we got that five, no more than five trips per day. So these are the guard rails. If something's, you know, we're seeing tremendous amount of traffic and somebody complains, we're up there taking a look and see what's going on asking questions. We're looking at the business licenses license up there. Um but yeah, those are effectively their home offices. Uh and I don't anything analogous uh similar uses to the above.

I've got a quick question at number eight. Does this go against the the state tumali law that was signed toward a couple years ago? I think uh I think that was home food base food production. I think they eventually passed that, didn't they? Didn't they they walked back on it, didn't they? Because they had a bunch of people getting sick. I think they walked back. The next year it came back.

Yeah, they signed it in. So the catchall when we get down to those final provisions, they're responsible for maintaining and required to maintain all their licensing. Uh that applies to their activity outside of the city. We just require business license, but we do have that statement. So if there is a problem, they're not in compliance, we can pull their license. And again, it'd be the health department coming to us saying, "What's going on? This person got a lot of people sick." Yeah. From what they're baking. Yeah. I think that was the thing that changed in that bill if I'm correct is they had to register with the Arizona State Health Department as a home kitchen.

I just want to make sure we weren't kind of stepping on that one. I'm comfortable because we don't get into that food that regulation. I do know we have a lot of people making food. Uh it's not that's one of the more you know I'll get that one once a year. All right.

All right. Prohibited uses, things aren't allowed. You know, you've got the choice of firearms, manufacturing, storage, on-site sales. Some communities restrict that, some don't. Um, keep in mind also any hazardous materials being stored is not allowed in a home occupation. That's going to be one of our standards we'll get at the end. So, if somebody's uh storing an exceptional amount of black powder or something like that because they're selling ammunition or, you know, uh but definitely not uncommon for people to pack their own ammunition. That's that's just a known. But we want to, you know, firearms manufacturing storage so far is prohibited in this code. Uh medical marijuana uh dispensaries, that's just to reiterate what the statute is for marijuana facilities. Um is prohibited from being sold out of home without the proper licenses. And then these days, you can grow, you know, the six plants yourself under state law. That doesn't you're a gardener effectively. Um the repair now having people come to your house, that's totally illegal. You're not allowed to sell that. You have a license to sell. Um item number three, the repair, reconditioning, servicing or manufacturer of any motor vehicle, including automobiles, trucks, motorcycles, and boats. Uh one individual at our uh February 20th citizen review and said, "What about small equipment and stuff like that?" Later in the uh standards, there is a there is a provision there that working on anything over like one horsepower or something like that. That's when you start to get the noise. Again, noise complaints. That's how we become aware of that. Um item number four, any drop off, repair, fix it, or plumbing shops. Again, trips to sites. Um we want to make sure we've got that guard rail in place. If there's an

exceptional activity going on, parking situations occurring, um we have teeth to be able to do some enforcement. Uh kennels, storage, caring, or grooming of animals. as just consistent um for channeling for sure. That's always even many communities have use permit requirements for channels in commercial districts because waste I would assume.

Yeah. Um and then finally anything analogous to those similar uh maximum floor allowed again we're a little more lax than I think our 400 square f feet and I uh and it can only be accessessed on the interior we're saying a home occupation shall not occupy more than one quarter of the total floor areas uh in the principal building and any accessory building all lot so we take all structures just quarter of it you're good so that's Definitely a relaxed portion of the code. Signage, similar to Kirk code, no visible display or

and item number or item F. Uh limitation on on-site employees. No, there we go. I said right now we don't allow any on-site employees that aren't resident. Uh this code is allowing no more than two people shall be employed and work on site. So they could show up and work with that. accepting occupants of the home. So, that's a pretty uh significant shift in our allowance there to allow show up. Now, when we see that request or if I have an application, I'll just make sure they have parking spaces. They can show us where uh employees might be parking or if it's somebody keeps on parking from my house every day. If they're over there from 8 to 5 or whatever it is, uh we look at it. Oh, they do have a home occation going on. We'll make sure It has to be they have to have people have parking on on the property, but we don't want to have business traffic sitting, you know, uh but with approval of a conditional use permit, we could allow one additional employee. Um merchandise on-site uh display of merchandise or goods for the purpose of on sale on the premises shall not be permitted. Walking customers and on-site sales of the merchandise or goods shall not be permitted.

So going back of course to being complaint based, but on something like this, say someone is a Avon lady or doing an uh once a quarter on Saturday she has a yard an Avon yard sale or something like that and sets it all out. that would unless someone was complaining because it sounds like you couldn't you couldn't do that but um it doesn't seem that harmful if they didn't do it overly much. Yeah. And the only complaints I had on that were these uh was a particular garage sale continual garage sale and that's where it's well it's every day.

Yeah. um for like a month straight we've got a situation and that's where I have to start to get into the code right and really dissect and and things like this I just start to point to these things garage sales are so unique usually you don't have problems but you have our codes are for the margins right most of us kind of understand how to be a good neighbor and operate in public and everything but that's for those marginal not a great idea might not be a great idea But yeah, I forgot how we ended up getting in that enforcement, but it was it did come up. Um storage related to the home occupation must be combined to the interior dwelling. No hazardous materials or storage is allowed. And then finally, traffic and almost traffic and parking. That's what we restricted. No more than five trips per day. Uh that way again it's based on unrelated to deliveries by the way. Oh it's let's see if five trips today unless otherwise specified in the code related to the business meaning deliveries drop off average over a work week. So there's a span there. So we actually are in that situation how about five in the past my policy. Um, so again, it's the guard rails. Whoa. Getting a lot of trips. Takes a lot for us to go out there and start watching. I've probably done that once in my career. Nor require additional off- streetet parking spaces for delivery of materials or supplies to or from the premises. No garage or accessory building shall be altered or used in such a manner that would reduce the number of parking spaces required. So if they want a home based business and um they're going to displace their parked cars for their business or we'll talk about

it. Um but this is saying that we'll start to change potential parking. Quick uh quick question on I. Um in the third line it talks about uh there's a clause that says on average over a work week. I would suggest calendar week because if you say work week now we're excluding Saturday and Sunday and that could be a tiny loophole there. Calendar week would run either Sunday to Saturday or otherwise cover all seven days. That's all. So I would just I would recommend substituting the word work week with calendar week. That's all.

Okay. To make a change at this point with this published language, we'll just get include that and I'll have it written down to address. I'll make sure if you're considering a motion tonight that I'll state making that update to number five to correct and then update I.

Yes, that's all. They're very small. challenge. All right. And then the nuisance language questions. And down at the bottom there, you see that home occupation shall not involve the use of power equipment on the premises using motors exceeding one horsepower. Wasn't that I just saw it. That's definitely one way to say, "Okay, that bandsaw has been running a lot and it's loud." Okay, we're out there. Your neighbor's complaining what you got. Oh, it's less than a horsepower. All right, keep doing it. But now there's a noise issue, too. We got to make sure it's larger. You know, it's a horsepower. Anyway, another one of those potential metrics to uh if we have to, you know, go to court or something like that, we got language in there gives the city measurable metrics metrics to be able to present our argument. And then finally, licenses. All required city, state, and other applicable agency licenses are required to be secured and maintained for the duration of the home occupation. That's our several. So Dana, on that one, if say for instance, I'm just going to use a daycare because I know that that everyone's really focused on the daycare. If a daycare that's been operating for a long time doesn't have a city license, but they got the city license or got whatever licensing and everything, before any of these changes come in, are they then grandfathered in?

Correct. The best way, you know, they'll have to show something if something comes up one day. Um for my opinion the best way is just get your business license. I think we mentioned that through our discussions here as well with people that might not have because that's easy right grandfather otherwise you know start generating other documentation from the state that you've been licensed and operating and stuff like that but something I have to have something to show that it's a continued business and not a new business or a gap in the business or something like that. Sorry that took a while. Staff recommendation is to motion to recommend city council adopt ordinance number 894. Uh with that whatever uh and I've got some with a modification to uh number five and the use is permitted and I to reference calendar week. um and to expand the city's home occupation provisions for residential zoning districts. Uh so yeah, staff recommends um motion to approve. So with that, happy to uh answer any additional questions or I feel like my questions have been answered. You guys all right with opening the public comment? All right. So then it would be time for the call to the public. I've got one request to speak at this point. Pam Trobar, please uh identify yourself and give us your address.

I'm sorry. Identify yourself and give us your address for the record.

Okay. I'm Pam Troba. I live on Railroad Court in Globe. Um, a little bit of background about me. So, I have been around child care for many, many years. Uh, I probably started as a licensed uh, home daycare way back in 96 or 97. I did that for 16 years while my kids were little until they got big and they didn't like it anymore. So then I went to Head Start. I worked with them for 10 years in all different areas. And now I currently work um, with licensed centers and family daycare providers throughout Hila County and I specialize in health and safety issues. So, yes, I've been around it a lot. And you guys, you answered so many questions that I had written down already today. So, I appreciate that. Um, I would like, you know, one of the things I said was defining the word daycare at number five. And I think you answered that because there's a difference between a babysitter, a child care, a daycare, and a preschool. And you do have um quite a few uh unregulated, unlicensed preschools. You know, we have a really great one that I work with quite a bit, Sylvia, and she's spoken to you before, but we do have quite a few that are not regulated. Um and they do specific preschool programs. You know, they have an AM class, they have a PM class, they have more than four. Um, and I see on our wonderful Facebook social sites all the recommendations of how wonderful this one is and that one is and and I have a list of them actually. So, um, I I just want to make sure that preschool because yes, they are educating uh, kids. It is instructional and hopefully a lot of our other home daycare providers are also doing that, but I'm not in their homes to tell you that they are. So, I just want to make sure that

those particular preschools are not considered instructional classes. Is that right? From what I understand tonight, we would not classify them in number six. Uh, may madam chair. Uh, yeah, that's how I would classify it. They're there most likely. Child care number one, but instructional obviously. Yeah, that that's the focus of many of those is what I'm saying. So, I just want to make sure that we have that distinction. And you said maybe not license and I'm just saying because then I'll defer to well, what's the license? So, because

Yeah. No, they're not they're not regulated. They are private and they have their very good reasons for not wanting to go through that process. I understand. Got it. Got it. Yeah. So, DHS Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they're not right. All right. So, they are under number five. So they don't need to worry about I mean I think you mentioned if we if you find out that there's um house A, B, C, and D on one street and they're really close and they have you know all these they're unregulated so there are more than four and they're not being licensed but you know maybe there's a traffic issue but other than if there if there is not a complaint with them they should be good. Right. Correct. How will we know?

Yeah. I didn't know they have a sound.

Oh, you just need you just need to go to Glow Miami social site and you can find all of those awesome providers. Some of them I can see that are re, you know, oh, I do it and I know that person. I think, oh, that's that's not good. Let's not do No, don't send your kids there. Um, so that that was great. The next thing I I had a and I really love that you said um these providers can get their business license now, right? Is that a difficult process? I don't remember if I ever had a license. I'll be honest. It's been Don't Don't send me a bill, but I don't think I did. Um, is it a difficult process? And about how much is that so that I can spread the word?

You got it. Or I think it's is it $50? $50 for and it's a and it's a relatively easy because I accidentally got into it the other day looking for something else and it's relatively easy application to do it and for that business it would be like $50 a year due at the end of January every year

and so if they do that now before this is put in place and um in a year when they have to renew they're not going to be given push back but you know they're grandfathered in right okay that that's really good to know because like I said the process of being licensed Ed. Um I and I love that you did the whole packet. You know, that doesn't tell the whole story really. There's different ways that you can be licensed. That's DHS. Um but there's also dees. So, it's different. Um and it is a process and it is a a pain in the rear end. I can't imagine it's any better now than it was in 1997. And my husband hated it. And hopefully he's not listening, but um it was a pain because you had people coming in all the time. Some un unannounced. my children, you know, would spend a whole day trying to get their room ready because the inspection was happening and, you know, it it was it was a process. Um, having to find your knives because they're locked up in a cabinet and and and there's a fee even in your own paperwork packet that you put down there. It talks about a $300 some fee and that's for a group home. And that that's a large chunk of change and you know many many of our family providers just do not want to go through that hassle. They don't want to be limited to the number of kids they have coming and going and so as long as it is complaintbased um that's what I want to make sure because we don't have the child care here and and I work up in PAC quite as as well and there's more up there honestly they're they're quite blessed compared to Glo Miami. Um, I just don't want to put stumbling blocks. I I think it's great. I wish so many of them would go through the process to be licensed, you know, but I also can put myself in their shoes and I understand why they don't, right? Um, yeah. And then the last thing um, I wanted to ask

just worst case scenario, this came through my head today. So if somebody is not does not go through the process, they don't get their business license and all of a sudden they have that one neighbor who decides to put a complaint in and this is their livelihood. They are raising their kids, you know, like I was when my kids were little, just supplementing um my income uh to keep our kids at home. Um and they don't want to follow this and so they are denied. Um, what does that look like for somebody? How much in fees and fines are they looking at in the future? So, that's up to the judge. Okay,

that'd be a first. I maybe Code Compliance could explain, but I haven't heard of a scenario. No. And and hopefully it would it would never get there. But if you have that one neighbor, that could be a problem. Um, you know, you might have an argument with one neighbor that decides to do a complaint on you. So that that's the only thing, you know, and then we ask questions. What's the complaint? Because we've got nuisance complaints and so what's generating that? Oh, I just know there's more than there's five kids there instead of four. Something like that. Okay. That's a difficult thing, you know, uh to possibly. So yeah. Okay. But I haven't had it

and hopefully we never get there because we do need the child care, you know. So I will be pushing that these um wonderful people on Facebook social sites you know do contact you know and and get their business license and ultimately get regulated because there are horror stories we have I would say Dana if people did this to get the city license they're not going to get put on some kind of a you know quarter code enforcement is going to swoop into their neighborhood and check them out before they get their license correct I mean if there's no reason to to doubt they're doing a good job, their neighbors aren't complaining, they're in compliance of the traffic and so on and so forth.

Um, it would just go through our typical business license process. Um, you know, I haven't seen one of the uh you know just be clear knowing what this discussion is and everything obviously when you're making application be mindful.

Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, I don't have any other I guess I do. Thank you, Silia. Okay. Hi, I'm Sylvia Geyser again. Anyway, I'm still not clear with your ratios. You're showing DHS ratios and not dees. I'm deeslic licensed. I brought my license to show you it's licensed for six four for comp. So, as you mentioned, Tracy, I do have 2 PM two classes. I do child care, but they also get the benefit of getting educated and getting ready for kindergarten. I it's obvious that it is needed in our town because I have a very long wait list probably going to last five years from now. Um I can't service all of them. So it is very needed and these kids need to be educated to get into kindergarten. So they're not going to be stressed or have anxiety or any of that. They need to be ready. Um so with that being said, you're saying that I could have five. My license says I could have six and that I could have five coming to my house per day. So, how does that limit or how does that how how am I able to provide the the two um services that I have an AM and a PM if I've got six coming and then six going.

Yeah. So, six at one time it sounds like. Um and I think we covered that part. Uh, so you know, I I hope you received my emails. Did you I didn't sent you a couple things and I also called the phone number on your card because I was h because I read the public and it's included in the staff report um your comments on February 28th and kind of address some of that in there, but I'd have to you know I'd love to see your license. Um the only other I have it right here community that would be great. And so what what's their capacity? They said you're a licensed for six.

Yeah, I have all my other my other certificates here that are all education and it's all based on child care. Um, so like Pam mentioned, you don't want your children sitting at home watching TV and having screen time. You want to teach them. Do you The only other community I know Gilbert has say has says five for some reason, but I haven't seen anything more. And that might be a DHS because when Yeah. when when uh DEES was wanting me to provide more child care for more parents because it was needed, they wanted me to go group home. And I looked into that and I think it was like $1,500 for the license, maybe 500 because DES is going to take care of some of it. But my ratios would have been one to five. Okay. If I didn't have another staff member.

So that's the other uh uh item I saw. So obviously you can have that. You just need to get an approved conditional use permit if you don't already have a business license and you're not grandfathered. Um I'm comfortable with the DA DHS reference. You have the full spread, you know, slides. Um so the language included in the code is what I would recommend the commission continue with. Okay. So, if you're limiting five per day to my house, how is that going to work with my to apply? If you don't have an existing business license, you'll just have to apply for a conditional use permit. Dana, would you be able to describe the process of a conditional use permit? Like, just understand that

because you you could still run the business that you have with a cup. And so, now we want to just make sure people understand what the the ease of that process. Uh, yes, absolutely. So what it is, you make application, uh we notify all property owners within 300 ft of your property 15 days prior to a public hearing and then the planning and zoning commission uh here's that conditional use permit request that you apply for.

Um and we hold a public hearing just like right now and that's it. And then they make it they hear from the public, you know, uh neighbors. Normally up here we don't get a lot of uh response to our conditional use permits historically. Just depends what it is. Uh at least negative response, but um yeah, that's the process. So it's a public process saying, "Hey, I'm going to have up to 10 kids at my house or six or whatever it is over four." Um uh so let me know if you have any concerns. And then we'll just say we'll look at say make sure okay what you know you'll explain your times and stuff like that and that be it. I only have six at one time. at one period and we do that twice a day or whatever it is. You put it in an application. It's uh we just increased our fee for conditions. I think $500 or something like that. So, uh yeah.

And I would need that instead of just your $50. And you should have a business license anyway. Okay. According to our business license. Okay. I've been doing this since 1995 and I've never been asked to get a business license. Well, we might not know. It's How could you not know? I Well, we met at the very first of of these discussions and and I apologize I'm not getting my emails through. Yeah. No, I haven't got I wanted to have a conversation and and I have I have been licensed with the state of Arizona since 1995. I did a commercial for their website with my preschool daycare. Oh, wow.

To advertise DES daycare. Um, not only that, I've done PowerPoints for DEES for child care again with my with my childare preschool. So, I mean, for a while, if you went onto the DES website promoting First Things First and DES, you saw my face and my children on there. So, how did you not know for trouble?

No. And I'm not either. I just want to make sure that I'm compliant. And I mean, the five limits to my house is what honestly scares me. it. Like I said, I've been in this house for since 2000, and I've never had any complaints or any traffic. None of my none of my parents that come and drop off and pick up are blocking anybody's driveways. Um there was a police officer up there handling business and he wasn't not able to get through, so he was able to get in and out. Um and that was during my pickup time of five kids. So, Perfect. And that's exactly what we've explained for a conditional use permit. And then you're

once this code takes effect, if it's adopted, it would take effect 30 days after. And so the business license or the conditional that would cost me $500. Is that a year or is that just the one time? One time. Okay. And that would do what for me? And really that covers we have to advertise it to the staff. True. Post your site. post the sign on the property. I don't post anything. No, we have to for zoning for the zoning public hearing to give your neighbors an opportunity to

part of the notification process to know you're you're going official. So once again, you don't have any complaints from your neighbors. So I can imagine you're suddenly going to have it because you try to fit within the the codes. But now she's already approved by DH DEES DHS DES. I mean, I the $500 seems like a lot for conditional use permit for something that's permitted already. That's what I'm not understanding. I already have a bis a license, a state license, and now you're saying I need another license. And as far as my neighbors, every one of their children have come to my program.

Uh so the question is, hey, will I be grandfathered once this goes in effect? Great. Like right now, I know the code doesn't really allow that use. Uh why don't you, you know, shoot me an email. Either way, we've got avenues here. You can either get a use permit or we can look at and see if we can do a grandfathering, but it's tough because we have don't have any history any record for. But I'll take a look at your records. Um yeah, and we'll take a look and say and look at probably talk to our attorney. Yeah. All right. Is this legal?

You should be able to honor all of your history through the state stuff at least on some level. he might look at our current ordinance for home occupation say this would never be allowed based on what your current ordinance is. So if we just you know reach out to me please.

Yeah because I I do have a lot of certificates and education that I that I continue and they all cost money. I mean there it's not it doesn't stop with DES with me. I continue my education and I am nationally accredited and that comes with a $500 bill and 120 clock hours of education and not only with that I have my CDA I have my first things first quality first five star rating so all of that comes with time and a bill and so now you're putting another one on me potentially. Yeah. And I know the last time we spoke you mentioned something about being grandfathered in and you didn't have a business card for me.

I didn't. So I reached out. I'll tell you what, we'll definitely give it to you today for leave. And I would just say go online and apply for business license. Yeah, because Yeah. The last I spoke to you, I didn't need a business license. I just needed a permit and that I would be grandfathered in. What permit? Some permit that I needed. It was going to be a $50 permit. business license. That would be business license. It' be $50. It'd be this. You're talking about this. We could be avoiding a lot of this right now if we took care of that. So, if I got a business license today, tomorrow, then I wouldn't need the $500 other license. Uh, that's the idea. Yes, I would certainly start there. Okay.

So, and as a matter of fact, get uh if you would mind get Tony and Freddy's business card. Tony, do you have a card on you? I can get one. All right. Paul, do you have a card? Anyway, I'll tell you what. I'll give you uh my contacts involved right now. Okay. Now, do you want to see my business license or do I just email it to you later? We're So, this code uh you know, obviously applies to everybody in the community. So, we'll take care of your personal situation. We would want to do it outside of this meeting because you don't want your business license part of the public record. That's the only thing. So, yeah, just stay after for a minute. Yeah. I feel like everything's part of the public record for her.

You can go on the state websites and I'm all over there. So, I'm okay with that. I'm proud of my license. Honestly, I mean, since 1995, I've never had any issues at all. Well, thank you. So, I'm very proud of that license. Those messages weren't going. I thought something was fishy. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Sylvia. Thank you, Alexandra White. That's a fair question right there.

Uh, my name is Alexandra White. I live on Azul Lane in Globe. You'll have to excuse me. I'm a little congested, but I wanted to make sure that I was here for this. Okay. Um, I have questions about the 600 foot rule, and I just wanted some clarity on that. When you're talking about 600 foot, it mentions in there that two different distinguished people. So daycare instructor instructor daycare cannot be closer than a certain vicinity. But on the next part, you claim that some providers can educate but still be deemed a daycare provider because that's what everybody should be doing. So my question is, where does that line fall? And does it mean two daycare providers can't be next to each other or a preschool that claims they're a daycare can't be next to each other? What are the parameters on that?

Okay. Yes, let's look at that language. And I think that the separation is only for instructional. So if you're just instructing children while you watch them for daycare, that's the primary use. So my question,

Well, there's no separation. Well, so when you think of a daycare, other than Sylvia having all those licenses in a technicality, I mean, they're all sort of instructors of sorts, right? Because the kids are learning even just having been there, which is why I'm asking these questions now so that it doesn't come up later um as that certain scenario. Am I going to be classified as a daycare provider slash some sort of instructor because I do influence the children in my care or will I still be allowed to be a private inhome provider that is not classified as an instructor for children?

Sounds like a private either you got to pull a license for one of the two or you would apply for a license for one of the two. If you came to me and said this is what I'm doing. I'm watching these children and then I instruct them while I'm watching them. I was able to daycare. Okay. And in the event that a daycare and a preschool are within the 600 ft, that does not have a separation. Okay. I just want to instructional. Okay. So, that's the only section with the separation because they could have 24 trips per day. Okay. So, that's what you want to separate. But we don't have that same provision in the daycare when you read that section.

Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to be clear because the daycare and the instruction are going to have the same amount of trips, right? It's not going to change. And if they're within 600 ft, I need to know if they fall into that rule regardless of if they're an instructor or if they're just a daycare. Correct. So instructional. So if you're doing instruction, what's I'm not. You do daycare. I do childare, but I live literally one house away from a renowned preschool teacher who also does child care. One house. Yep.

Most of my kids that I care for during the day walk to her house for preschool. I walk them down, they walk back in the PM. I walk them down, they walk back. That's the only way their parents can afford it. So, I want to make sure again that it's clear that our scenario does not play into that 600 foot rule. Well, just just the fact that you can walk back and forth reduces traffic, right? But either way though, get dropped off once to get my kids coming are dropped in the morning and picked up at night. So, I just want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly. Once again, I can't stress enough that this is going to be complaint based and you guys clearly have a neighborhood that support what you do. They do. Absolutely.

And so, I don't think you really have a whole bunch to worry about because you guys don't upset your neighbors. If someone did suddenly I see your other thing you're worried about if there was you know someone making false claims if some someone suddenly came and started attacking you too. It would be really weird that you've been doing it for as long as you have and you got a new neighbor that suddenly comes in and decides they don't like you know three-year-olds screaming in the backyard or something. Yes, absolutely. I see what you're worried about on that. Um so that touched on the unfounded complaints and the process that that will go through. Um my last well not my last but my next um question deals with the parking. So you're saying that where my home is is zoned as residential which means public parking does not apply.

I don't know where your home is. Sorry. So I live within city limits. I'm on Azul Lane which is at the far end of Globe. I live in a culde-sac not on a direct street. So regardless of where I live, if I'm in city limits, is the street in front of my home public parking for anyone or is it residential because my home is in front of it or is it HOA?

Uh so if you have occupant or uh uh employees, you're the home's probably again, I don't know that specific. I'm sure it's public. So my question is if it's public street that my parents or her parents are parking on, why is it being limited to x amount of times in a day? If it is public parking for anyone to park at any time, if you come in for a business license and say, "I've got two employees and we're going to run a daycare or something like that," we would say, "Show me the parking spaces on your site for your two employees." Okay. before we license. And those that aren't licensed, don't worry about that. They can come and go and

unless you start filing complaints against them.

Yeah. Well, I mean, and that's the thing is I have in the past and they've been never addressed. So, I agree. This is a a business that needs to be monitored and it needs to be tracked because there are providers that are providing unsafeely, that have outrageous ratios that, you know, could endanger children. And that's something I hope can be a part of this is that not just the neighbor who complains, but founded complaints are followed up on regardless of your case load that you have because you know I had taken notes and it was kind of like a well I don't have time to all the time but I have time. how I hope those are prioritized because those ones, you know, are going to get missed if we're kind of picking and choosing or trying to find a basis of founded or unfounded.

Well, I feel like this is trying to give the city teeth to be able to go and do that where it didn't have it before. If you filed a complaint, it didn't, no one followed through, that's because maybe there was no code for it to really apply to. And that's what this is trying to do, right, Dana? And and that's what I feel like we're trying to do here is give the city recourse if there is legitimate complaint. Someone's got 20 kids and

right guard rails there is a serious issue and you know that's the only avenue and there's code you know it's a code compliance issue at that point. We have to have those metrics and those specific codes because these those codes are specific to safety and traffic and you know and the things that are a but you know attributed to potential time, place, manner, life safety concerns, stuff like that.

Uh enjoyment of your peaceful enjoyment of your property and that right noise coming from a property. Um so we have that language in there, you know, that if there is a problem, okay, but it always goes with warnings, discussions, things like that. How can we correct? because I would say if not 99 times out of a hundred of people like oh I can just modify how I do this and then there's no problem like that. So it's uh it's a long way to go to end up in court. I think you're definitely yeah obviously would be by make disturbing the piece in many ways probably to get to that point.

Okay. Um my next topic is in relation to your amount of children that somebody can watch versus the relatives that they have. Right. So I know you said four and below can be comp. So if a person has four and below children but they have three cousins, nieces or nephews that were also mentioned, do they fall into that ratio or because they're not being paid for, do they fall as non-comp? A dependence is what the code says of the occupant. I read relative but I just wanted to be sure about that. Dana said relative earlier and then he quickly corrected back to dependence. Okay. So it is dependence. Yeah.

Okay. So dependence in your home and then the four compre unrel uh four for non-dependent non-dependence. Non-ependence. Okay. Um, and then in reference to the thing that was brought up about Lu Laoe and other things like that,

no, no, no, that's okay because I I used to do that too, right? I I work from home. I want to raise my kids. I want to spend as much time as I can before they graduate high school. So, I was like a hustle mom, right? I did Pink Zebra. I did Color Street. I did daycare. Whatever I did, I had to use to bridge that income. With those particular companies though, you're kind of a third party because you're buying it from the company and you're selling it using their name and their brand. And under that, I believe it requires through the state a transaction privilege tax license. So, I have a transaction privilege tax license because I do provide services and I pay my taxes, I file taxes, all that stuff. But in relation to that specifically, how Are you able not even just to find but to distinguish a line between Avon, Lulao, this or that versus what somebody else may be selling out of their home that's considered not that big of a thing because it's not a company, you know, it's it's me writing a drawing a picture, right, and somebody's coming to pick it up or I sell a portfolio and they come to pick it up.

Yep. And that would be again compliance-based. Somebody complains, they got to take a look. So it's kind of like a sound would would you know if you said I got 10 people coming every day that obviously we can see that and then and somebody's complaining about it then we'll guess what this is the code so you're not supposed to do that and if it continues then we'll have to talk again. Okay. And in regards to the prohibited uses within your home I noticed you have personal care for dogs. There are no personal care for people which is also offered inside of homes. So I'm wondering why that exclusion wasn't added to that.

You know I've never had an issue with the butician operating having one chair or something like that. Is that you personally or working for a city? That's just the is common. I know it doesn't create a problem for the neighborhood. So, if I did hair for however many people in a day and had that same traffic or more than five business or visits, I mean, it would pertain, right? Because they want to pack their day, too. So, I I'm curious why it's not an inclusion on the prohibited uses

because I mean, if we're do talking about kennels or caring or grooming of an animal, I mean, grooming of people is no different, right? No, animals are different because it tends I think the barking is why it's a common issue. They have to go outside. That's at times stuff like that. So if you got a kennel or that type of activity that's why that's specifically called out. We don't have that same problem with humans. We don't as in like now I'm I'm trying to understand because what I hear a lot of is is you haven't seen this or you haven't seen that. But I'm saying if that all is included, why would you not include its counterpart, which would be people services, right?

People don't bark and they don't park, but they still park, right? They still park and they have street space that's taken up. They come and look at that cuz we restrict parking, restrict traffic, and that traffic can be all through the night. I mean, my mom was a hairdresser. She had people come over at 9:00 at night because their schedule permitted. If somebody complains, we'll go out and take a look and say, "Are they getting more than five trips per day?" And that's how it kind of goes just case by case is how it's going to work. Well, no. Five trips per day. And No, no, no. I mean, as a whole, as your complaint process goes. Oh, yeah. It's always case by case. There's not the same case twice. Usually, there's always complaints are handled case by case.

That's exactly right. So here the thing is though uh I don't know about y'all but I'm looking to limit government uh in interference into businesses and homes and things like that right it's a necessary thing here and as Art pointed out when I started to go down the rabbit hole of uh whichever one it was direct sales we cannot possibly outline every type of profession that would happen in a home

the reason there's provisions for some of these is we've found that there's either preced precedent or problems. So precedent means it's spelled out in somebody else's code. And that might be where Dana is speaking from because he does code for a lot of other cities. Um or there's been problems that we feel like we need to address at this point. If there are precedent changes or problems in the future with mutitionians or something like that, then it might be brought before uh a com this commission to decide to change it and amend the code again just like we're doing today. We're attempting to amend it. What we don't want to try to do today, which Art rightly corrected me from trying to do earlier inadvertently, is try to list out everything that could possibly uh be a business here. We we don't want to stipulate that. So, on the original proposal and the last meeting that I was at, hairdresser was on there, but now it's not on there. So, I'm curious, it's there, it's not there, but we're going based on complaint base. My question is, so it just got removed to get removed. I'm

I can't speak to I'll allow Dana to speak to that, but again, you got to remember what we asked for as a commission is that the city research what the best practices were, the precedent, if you will. Um, gold standard has also been used tonight to describe that as well as to address any specific problems that were raised. So, there may very well be many changes as to what was originally proposed and then now what is proposed to us that will then be proposed to city council because it's going through that editing process.

Got it. Yeah. I was confused because it was the the poll catalyst that started all of this. So, I'm just curious, you know, like how far it's going to go or where where that line is drawn or is it a standard, not standard, case by case, how somebody feels, who knows you, that kind of a situation. Um, so my last question is, if I'm working from home and I own a daycare and my husband is laid off and he doesn't have a job and the only way in between to bridge that time is for him to work from home, however means possible, that would make two businesses in one house, which would be prohibited. Correct. No, I didn't see that.

I don't think so. I I don't think multiple businesses are prohibited. Right. You you could have five businesses, right? Mhm. And operate out of your house. I'm sorry. I thought that was on the prohibited list of multiple businesses. No, I recall. Can you bring it back up, Dana? I was looking for that. Yeah. There's six items under prohibited list. Uh uses firearms, medical marijuana, repair, reconditioning, drop off, repair, fix it, plumbing shop, plumbing shops, kennel storage, caring. My apologies. It was probably on the page earlier where it was detailing the type of businesses.

Um, so again, I just wanted to clarify if that would be an issue, that would not be an issue. What I'm hearing you say is it would not be an issue. Correct. Not an issue. Okay. Um, as far as the process and license fee, I know that you're saying that a person can go and get a use permit through the city. What does that entail? Does that entail any criteria other than the use permit for the city?

I would try to go for the business license first and then and then take it from there. If you're talking about like a use permit, the CUP would be if you're going on with too many too too many kids or something. So, you want you want to say that you've got uh a teenage or 20-year-old daughter that's helping you so she loses her so she could be an employee. You could have another employee. So you could have 15 kids because you've got three adults in there or whatever. And then that would be where you would be looking for a cup maybe is that you want to you've got enough employees to do it, but you want to exceed the number of kids that you're allowed to have. And it wouldn't be like for example 15. It would be anywhere between uh five and nine. That's that's what we would

No, I'm saying if they wanted to go outside of it, if they even wanted to go farther outside because they've got enough adults there to be in, you know, to be watching them. So that would that's where I feel like a CUP would really come in. Okay. And the requirements to get a license through the city. What do I need to have to do that? You can go on go on the Globe City license and go into forms and it'll pull it up and you can look at it. It's right there. Like I say, I accidentally got into it the other day. I was looking for something else. And so it had the pages, you know, all the questions, everything that was involved in it that you enter in. My question on that is still to have a license through the city. Do I need a license through dees, the state of Arizona, or do I just need a license through the city?

Uh, if this code gets adopted, um, you just need a license through the city. Either way, you're but and we have a caveat that get all the other necessary licenses for your business that you're required to have by other agencies. We don't look at it. We don't get into it. That's just our cover ourselves. So at this current time, if I got a business license, correct, to be grandfathered into whatever may happen, I apply for a business license. I don't need any other licensing. I just go in, apply, give them my trade. You don't need to show anything else. Okay. Okay, that's perfect. Thank you so much.

I didn't see um hairdressing in here conversations. Yeah, dude. It might have been all those We said, "Hey, everything else?" Yeah. Well, I'll take a look at it with you. We're good there. All right. So, that's all the ones I have here. Do we have anybody on email? Any text messages? Anything else? One more time. Or anyone else here that has something to say? Okay. So, in that case, I'm going to close the uh public hearing. Does anyone here have anything we want to say or do we have a motion? I have a motion.

Very conflicted at this point with regards to us. Either you require the licensing or you don't. And I was actually kind of shocked to hear that we have a lot of places that are not conforming uh that are watching your children. Um, having said that, I understand that some people can be very proficient at their job, but why are we telling them that they have to get the appropriate licensing? They have to get a license through a business license through the city of Globe, but they're we're leaving the compliance of everything else up to everybody, but that's listed as what a requirement has to be for them to follow up. Alan, my thoughts are then then how are you going to go through then, you know, you're going to go on Facebook and start looking at all of them and go to their houses and bang on the door because they don't have the license or do you the ones that are legit and have been doing it for years that can get grandfathered in and not have to worry about it, you know? I mean, to me, that's where it is. And then because

I mean I just one of the ladies that was here, she was just talking about that there are so many that they're trying to get on board, right, to try and get them to comply and stuff. This isn't remedying any of that problem. So, we're saying that that's going to be complaintbased as well, but we're still going to put that in to where you are supposed to go and get your own licensing for state whatever regulation licensing that you have to have.

Correct. And that's a catchall. So, let's see an example. Somebody is taking care of children. somebody in that house, maybe an adult or something like that, has an issue with children or there's some abuse that occurs. Um, if the city didn't have something like that and we issued a business license for their activity, there's a good chance, you know, we could potenti.

But if we say, well, you're our code says you're required to have all the appropriate licensing. So that and you didn't then um we're as covered as we can be in that situation. The alternative is require it and have them provide us that information and we have to document it. If you want to talk about that, we can. But alternatively, we have to have some reference to, and that's not uncommon for most of our other business license codes, like, hey, if you're responsible to get other stuff, health permits, that's up to you. And no, maintaining a valid business license will require that. So, if the city's or the DHS comes, hey, what's going on here? this person doesn't have a license and we've got a infraction going on. You issued a business license. That's the best we can do. Unless you say, "No, we need to review and have on file those required licenses." And then we got to learn what

So, if someone gets turned in, that would be something that the city would look at with regards to um a complaint that would be filed or saying that someone didn't have a license since that excerpt's in there. with regards to the state licensing and things like that. Okay. Then what is the responsibility come from the city at that time when we get a complaint saying that somebody is not licensed and has not been grandfathered in for whatever reason, you know, someone doing it since the 1990s or whatever the case may be and it's a continued business without a gap in it. So, and there's an issue and there's a violation and there's like an abuse situation that comes up or something infraction. of things.

Yeah. I mean, there's a difference between a babysitter and a child care center, right? Okay. A babysitter can babysit somebody's couple of kids and stuff like that. A child care center to me should sustain more education and more thoughtfulness with regards to the kids that they're managing. I mean, just just for basics nowadays of what the heck goes on in throughout the entire United States of America. Globe's no different. We can still suffer those same consequences. Again, I think that that puts the city of Globe up for a little bit of a legal issue, even with that paragraph that we have in there if we're not sure about compliance and they haven't been previously grandfathered in. If we're not requiring them to provide that correct information.

Now, I I may be way off base. I don't know. I don't have kids that go to daycare anymore, but you know, I'm not interested in someone who's going to try and take care of 10 kids and they got one person there and we've given them a business license to run their daycare when they have actually nothing that's going to keep them from being detrimental in any way, shape, or form with regards to dealing with the children. Do we have a problem with that? So along those lines, when um other types of businesses apply for a business license, do we require them to show those um um like a liquor license? I had to show my liquor license. You had to show your liquor license. I didn't have to show my real estate.

That's a city state, but it's a whole another thing. Clarify that real quick. Our business licenses are for revenue only purposes. Is that correct? And not regulatory. Then that's that's the caveat. That's the legal caveat is that they're for revenue only and not for legal purposes. And we've notified the person that you're responsible for obtaining all of your correct certifications and licenses. And if you don't, you're liable. And that type of language is what keeps the city to be denied to have a homebased business doing this. If there's a complaint and it's investigated by the city of Globe and that code is sitting in there with regards to that paragraph, wouldn't they tie it to the nuisance that caused the complaint?

No, I'm not talking about nuisance. I'm talking about someone saying, "Oh, I was talking to the healthc care provider I just dropped my kid off at and oh, by the way, they're not licensed." And you have whatever tiff you have. Because it happens all the time. Yeah. So, they call and call Dana's office and say, "Hey, this person does not have any kind of licensing blah blah blah." So, does that then allow the city at that point in time if there's an issue to turn around to that person and say, "I'm sorry, you can no longer have a homebased operation here when it's investigated by the city that rash or that quick." Like I said, there's a mile of conversation that goes, "Hey, we heard you you're not maintaining your required licenses for the state. Just know this ordinance says that if you're doing a home care, you're required to have those licenses." Why are we making ordinances that we can't enforce with regards to what's going on around us? I don't get that. That's just a continuation of where we go right now to try and figure out how to keep continuity through so that there is less frustration level. So if we put that in there again covering the city with regards to potential legal issues, then to me then there's no consequences for the person who's violating. So why even bother having any complaints? They're not going to do anything.

There are serious consequences. But when that complainer calls the city or Dana to say, "Hey, this is happening." The response from the city, I believe, and they're here, they can correct me if I'm wrong, would be, "Hey, that's really serious and we need to get you in touch with DHS or dees or and I don't have kids, so I apologize. I don't know the terms, but we need to get you in touch with the right people who regulate that type of business."

They're breaking our ordinance. They are taking the city of globe ordinance and not abiding by it. So the consequences are that they're you're going to ask you're required to have this correct and then they say oh no I can't afford to do that or I don't want to do that or I'm not going to do that. Then what are the repercussions if any or consequences that that place would have where we're making all of the other people who are trying to do what they're supposed to do and abide by the laws and the regulations and the ordinances that the city of Globe has set up and then so what if we're not going to say I'm sorry you can no longer have a business license at this point but some of them are

usually give them you've got 90 days 180 days to get your licensing and provide it to us we're going to not reissue your business license next year and so then they'll just not get the business license and continue this business. Hey, right. Well, and then somebody complains or what happens though? What's So what's the issue here? One person might not have enjoyed it and they made a complaint or we got multiple complaints

for whatever reason. I don't know if you said not liking the the provider or something like that, but it just depends. Again, it's nuance, but um if somebody, you know, if there's obviously a consistent issue and they're not working to remedute it, we're going to Yeah, we're going to not issue another business license to them. And will they go underground or not? Who knows? We can watch that if we need to. It all just depends on the scenario. Was this some crazy situation or is this a very rogue limited reason why that one person complained about this person? Let's follow it. Either way, this is what the code is. Please get your license. you could jeopardize losing your business license. Now, that person you just mentioned, why would they get a business license if they're not getting any other licenses and not letting anybody else?

We've already cleared the path for them to be able to do that. We've already told them that that's okay if you get your business license. Here's the issue. We're not going to follow up with anything. Everything's going to be honky dory and you're going to have a wonderful life and your child care stuff stays intact. The alternative is we need to require it then and say you're required to provide proof of and if you'd like to do that I would suggest you make a motion to modify item K licenses. All required city state and other applicable agency license are required to be secured and maintained and provided to the city upon business license issuance for the duration of the home occupation.

So you can make that motion if that solves that problem. I don't know. Or it can You don't have to vote in favor of it. Well, I understand that we have an issue and that we do need additional child care in this area. It happens all the time with the people I deal with at my office. That one lady's discussion that she had and the questions she asked were very concerning to me that there's that many places that are operating without any kind of Thank you. oversight. I am concerned about that and we're changing our ordinance to help with this. I mean, that's the whole conversation we've had all night. So, okay.

Do we allow it? Do we don't allow it? Well, I think I'm the only one that's saying that or hasn't. No. And I might not understand, maybe I don't understand the scenario, but if we're talking about safety concerns, right, because we were talking about abuse, and I don't know if we were just if that's just one of many examples, but when you're talking about safety concerns, especially with children, that goes a whole other way. Like that's calling the police, that's calling, you know what I mean? Like that's that goes a whole different one for 10 kids.

Okay, that's not supervision. You can't possibly track I don't care who you are, track 10 kids with one person. Okay. So, that's what I'm saying. These things that we I like I said, I did not realize that we had as much going on out there as we apparently do according to what we heard tonight. And it just it it No, that's fair.

It is concerning that we don't have any teeth. The teeth are gone. So, could we ask uh and I don't know if it's Dana or somebody a different member of the city to speak to, you know, like we know that uh establishments that provide alcohol have to have a liquor license, right? I would assume that restaurants have to provide some sort of food handlers. So, if there's already precedent in the city for requesting licenses, proof of related licenses for this, then there's no danger in modifying item K as Dana had suggested where No licensing in the city like what Tracy has to deal with with the liquor because that would be city and state. This daycare stuff in in child care is only for state and whatever federal guidelines may or may not be present. I don't know. The city doesn't currently have any regulations with regards to that except for what we're going over here for the text amendment changes.

That's on that's on.

Yeah, I know. I get it. But it I mean would it take a police state to go find you know to to go I mean I appreciate that there's probably a lot of them out there we wish were were better you know licensed and everything but unless you're going to I or if someone's going to watch Facebook and say okay we got to go check this one out. I mean that's kind of police stateish to me. So, I I you know, I I get where you're coming from, but I also don't see that it's an easy fix to say that now all of a sudden we're going to go find the 30 or 40 other ones that keep kids that that might have too many kids and not enough adults watching them. You know, how do you how do you do that? I wasn't talking. I'm talking about us asking or saying you are responsible for getting your licenses with the city having nothing that falls back on or being able to justify or be able to uh you know find out if any of that is incorrect. I mean, you're not going to serve beer in your bar without having your liquor license.

Yeah. They're not even going to deliver.

I don't even have revenue that's generated for the real estate stuff and I still had to get a business license. Okay. I understand the purpose of it. I'm just saying that we have that in there to cover the city's legal obligations, but doesn't make any sense to me because it doesn't seem to make any difference at all. So, it doesn't matter. Are there references? I'm not looking at, but there's other references. It's one of those it's typical term in some ways, but we have other prohibitions that will I think marijuana is the only one that says you have to provide that that evidence. and you go through the business license and it gets into certain business activities do require certain uh proof of licensing compliance. It's limited things and there's other areas engineering permits and stuff like that. Sometimes you need to be in compliance. We're going to issue this permit but you got to be in compliance with NEPA

and and and uh uh and yet we'll check to see somebody permit for or something. Okay. and something that affects and is a thing that we have to use in our life here in our community for a business that is apparently much sought after. So I mean I just this is why in my opinion that sometimes the city gets these uh it doesn't matter. Thank you that I don't have any other questions. Thank you Dana. I appreciate it.

Art you had you had something. Yeah, I I Madam Chairman, I just want to make sure that we stay within the scope of our com we serve the city council and we have a specific duty to the city council. We reference codes and licenses, but we don't make codes and licenses and we don't enforce codes and licenses. We just referenced him as part of our criteria to uh to conduct our business here. Beyond our city codes and

yeah, thank you Mary. No, I got it all written out. I'm ready. You're ready? Okay. Lay it on me. Do you want to ask for more questions? Maybe Justin has questions. Justin, you got anything you want to add? Did we lose Justin? I don't I don't see him on the screen anymore. Left the meeting for the record yet. It's Justin's bedtime. So, okay. I if if there's no further questions,

uh I motion to recommend the city council adopt ordinance 894 to amend the zoning code by expanding home occupancy code provisions with the two text amendments to item number five and I uh noted uh tonight by the commission. Do I have a second? Second. Okay, I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. I. All those opposed? Nay. Nay.

We got uh and Justin's gone. So, we got three eyes and one nay. The eyes have it. Now, next we are moving on to C public hearing and consideration of recommendation to the city globe city county for ordinance number 895 a zoning code text amendment to clarify the minimum parking lot paving standards and provide alternative parking lot surfacing criteria for sight specific conditions case number ZTA-25-02. Dana Thank you so much, madame chair and commissioners. The other item that came up in discussions uh on prior applications to the planning and zoning commission um uh back in last March or May um when the commission directed staff to research paving standards for parking lots in the city um and and consider alternatives and how do we develop language that will can give provide options to the public.

Uh so uh similarly uh the city's had extensive or planning and zoning commission extensive discussions and meetings on this topic. I think we're about five or six as well. Um equally on February 20 20th uh we held that citizen review meeting for both of the the prior agenda item as well as this one and discussed uh we had about three members of the public outside staff uh in attendance for that meeting. Um and really not uh much interest uh on that as opposed to the item that we just discussed. So with that, I did identify one nuance that one member of the public mentioned and when we talked about the paving standards and um why in hightra areas do you typically have paving in lie of gravel and other things and largely because of the tracking material into the rideway, wash out material into the rideway and the safety issues that that might occur or create uh for high traffic parking lots and then as well as well um ADA access that's required for businesses um mobility people needs um also so and dust control and other you know maintenance of our flood structures things like that came up yeah it was a good discussion but overall I won't even bother. You do have the staff report. I won't bother with the presentation as we've had them. I can show you.

Yes.

So, we can get right into the language if you'd like or if you would just like to go right to the public uh public administration. We've adjusted made adjustments based on your prior recommendations. Uh clean it out. We I did, you know, unfortunately I know the city's been very busy with in engineering and flood control and all that great stuff and FEMA work. Um so haven't had time to really develop that design manual as we need to. uh but I did provide with you provide in your reports exhibit B that is the summary of what we pulled out of our discussion with respect to specific uh standards and guidelines for certain types of parking and paving and things to consider what's appropriate and basically identifying the fact that um yeah when we're looking at paving there's uh certain criteria that city engineer needs to take into account in the design engineer for the property owner or client. And uh one is the amount of traffic, the volume of the use and the demand. Um because that has a serious impact on the long-term maintenance and of that parking lot. Um that as well as the drainage considerations, uh uh weight of vehicles, is it loading, unloading, all that fun stuff. So we hopefully have a good succinct staff report there that kind of outlines all that. Happy to dig in to any of it. Other than that, uh staff recommends approval as written as drafted.

Any questions, comments, concerns, I think we beat this one to death. Yeah. Okay. Uh I've got one person that wants to speak. Open it for public hearing. I Well, this isn't a public hearing, so that's why I'm getting ready to ask. It is a public hearing. Oh, it is. It is a public Oh, it is public hearing. Okay. When you open it up. Open Tina. Sorry, I can't read your last name.

Thank you for your time. Um, so I'm sure you guys know Tina Andre. Uh, I own two properties out here, uh, right there by the Hill Street School Apartments. Um, the one on Hill Street is actually right across the street from uh a patch that you guys had had performed. I don't know if it was the city or the Hill Street School Apartments. However, um I mean there's vehicles like hitting it every time and it's asphalt, but it's a huge two bumps just next to each other, right? So, I'm wondering as time goes on, right, there's always new advancements in in uh different types of asphalt. Um, I know that just to get a area, you know, rolled out and pushed down and compacted enough is probably in the thousands, right? Just for the compaction. Uh, not to mention the asphalt being, you know, delivered to globe and then laid out. So, how how do we set the standard for what asphalt is actually approved, right? Or what, you know, quality of of layment is actually utilized. Um,

is is this actually a street or a parking lot? Uh, so Hill Street Hill Street. Um, so if you're right across the street from Nerburgger, right across the street from my house. So I live um in the Tannon and Purple House uh next door to Nerdberger, the twotory uh forplex,

and it's actually on the Hill Street School Apartment side, but there's a patch that was done and it's it's I've seen city vehicles romp over it um on my cameras and it's it's the quality of asphalt that is used by the city, right? But it's not it's not up to standards as far as the heat. It can't I don't know if it was if it was driven over too quickly or if it was the heat that affected it or what made it bubble up like that. But even at the building that the uh uh across from the tire shop uh the city uses it. They have sandbags still out. Econex is in the lot. Uh I think it's like the old high time appliance store. Whenever the flood happened, that asphalt got ripped up. I mean there's achie advancements all the time in different uh you know types of asphalt that's used or or different components in asphalt. So how are we to to manage that?

Okay. I I think Dana for parking lots what we're dealing with here and not this correct and I would suggest uh Tina if you want to just um send us an email that's a public works it's a rightaway situation and our public works department would be interested to know that. It's better than it's bubbling up than going down, huh? It's not going down. It's It's both. It's It's un It was probably It was un It It was either unengineered or engineered improperly patchwork possibly something. Yeah. And that could have been a subcontractor coming in doing It's the standard of asphalt is what I'm saying. Yeah, it was the uh So, please you have my contact or if not maybe I'll write it down for you. Sorry.

So, and contact me and then we'll put you in touch with Travis Asbal who's our manager of public works. He's familiar with that. He or John Angelo, he'll go out and take a look at that and um assess it. Look who maybe did the work. And would you like to say something? Well, and I don't want to you you it seemed like you might have a second question or comment and I don't want to cut you off. What are what are I guess what are the what are the uh like what's the the regulations or requirements for putting an asphalt uh parking lot? I mean, it's going to be in the thousands just for somebody to put a required asphalt, you know, lot. So, yeah.

I mean, is that going to be complaint based as well or is that going to be just going through the neighborhoods driving around or how how is that going to be, you know?

So, they make a proposal for private parking lot. So, somebody comes in, they want to use the parking lot, they want to build the parking lot for some reason, uses the use associated with that lot or that site and they say, "Hey, this is what I want to do. uh and this is what I want to surface it with. Let's say they say we just want to throw down gravel. Is that cool? And then we'll look at it and our city engineer makes a decision. Currently, that's how the code reads and needs to look at that and say, "Well, you need to provide me this detail, explain your, you know, the amount of traffic, what type of vehicles are there." So regardless of what that person wants to do, we understand through our research and review of best practices that certain types of surfaces are appropriate for different types of uses depending on the location and everything. So if it's a temporary overflow parking space that's not utilized, those are appropriate for gravel surfaces. If it's a use that's, let's say, a quick serve restaurant on the highway and they want to throw down gravel, well, we know for a fact out of experience and engineering standards that that's a horrible idea. That material will end up in the street. It'll rut. It'll become a maintenance nightmare and a big problem and public safety issues because of that material. Also they're required to stripe their parking spaces and provide ADA access to the business and that's uh very difficult on certain surfaces like gravel. So that's how that happens. uh you know it's based on location use you know uh grading and drainage flood plane whether or not it's in the flood plane and if it's going to get inundated with water all that and it needs to transmit that water and move it

along. Um, and then then if we have catch basins for storm water nearby, that material ends up in there and then starts to reduce the city's infrastructure ability to pass that water as it's designed and it becomes a maintenance issue basically for the city. So all of those things together among others are why they need to propose a plan to our city engineer who permits those and it gets reviewed. Who is the city engineer right now if I can ask that? Luis Is that the same one that was doing the the uh what was the Conniey's bridge? Is that the same one?

I'm not I'm not familiar, but most likely he's a city engineer. Okay, I'll send an email. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming out and thank you for speaking. You want my address or you got it? Anybody have anything to say? If not, I'm going to and we're done here. So, I'm going to close the public hearing. Do I have a motion? I saw you taking notes. Are you making the motion or what? Or do you have something to say? I didn't pull it up.

Concerns. I make a motion that we uh accept the city uh ordinance number 895 zoning code text amendment to clarify the minimum parking paving standards as written and that's my motion. So so what we would do we're going to start over. So, you have to um you're motioning to recommend that the city um amend No, where is it? Let's see here. Should be on your screen right now. Yeah, it's right in front of me. That recommendation. There it is. This one. That's right there.

Okay. Motion recommend the city council adopt ordinance number 895 to amend the zoning code by clarifying the minimum parking paving standards and to provide an alternate parking lot surfacing criteria for sight specific conditions. Second. Okay. I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. I. Any oppose? Nay. The eyes have it. Thank you. Okay, Shel, any future meetings we need to be talking about. I'll defer to Dana.

Yeah, got a handful of things we need to bring forward. Couple updates. Um, I'll reach out for your availability for future meetings. It would probably be um this goes to council on 24th. As of now, I don't have any applications in here for you, but there could be policy stuff bring up um at your next meeting, but we'll confirm before the end of this week if there is another meeting. Um that item for the public's sake, both text amendments will be before planning and zoning or city council on February 24th. And I'll reach out to um and then quick update regarding uh maybe so our planner of uh Sandra who was hired is no longer with us as of now. However, new hire will be explained or should presented to you or introduced to you soon. I believe they might start towards the end of the month. Perfect. Someone with a lot of uh background.

Okay. Um that's all we have. Good. Very good. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second. There you go. I got a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? I doubt it. Hey. Thank you. No names.