Township Board - Regular Meeting

All right, I'm going to call the meeting to order at this time and welcome my fellow board members as well as those in the public tonight. Appreciate you being here and we'd like to open at this time with a word of prayer. So Gary, would you lead us? Sure. Our gracious God and heavenly father, we come to you Lord in this evening hour. We thank you for the blessings of this day. Again, we ask Lord you may guide and protect us in all that we do and say in this meeting. May you be with our first responders. Be with our our own township employees wherever they may be and whatever they may do for us. Guide and protect them. Be with those of Lord for this uh holiday season who's going through the first season with a loved one being long being uh missing this year at the table. Pray that you may give them everything. They stand in even a special portion of thy grace. Be us now Lord too as we do celebrate this season the season of our birth of our savior. May you give us all that we stand even now and bless us and keep us bring us home at the appointed time from harm and danger. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.

Amen. Amen. Amen. If you could stand and join us in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. You may be seated. Acknowledge the role tonight. We are all present tonight.

All right. Great to see everybody just before anywhere in February when we start to miss one of you here and there. Fun places. So, see you. Um, item number five is tonight's approval of the agenda. Is there a motion to approve the agenda? So, move. Support. Support it. Any comments?

Mr. Supervisor, I'd like to make a proposed amendment to the agenda. Um, I'd like to remove, excuse me, item 10.3 from the consent agenda, which is uh tentative preliminary plat approval for uh Loingwoods number 15. Uh, that item and then item 8.2. I would like to state that I have a conflict of interest in those items. I would request a vote on my recusal.

All right, we can do that now. So, we've got two things going on here. One would be a I guess a motion to amend the agenda to pull item 10.3 out of the consent agenda, make it its own we'll call it 10A. Would that be all right? Yeah. All right. On that first point then is is there a second to that motion by Kelly? So move. Okay. Um all in favor say I. I. Opposed. All right. It's made a separate item and now she's asked separately from that to be recused both from 10A as well as from item 8. Bear with me here is it 82 82

82 um because of employment either with the applicant or an affiliated entity with the applicant. So it's not an automatic right of recusal. It happens seldom here but it's an appropriate request I believe in this instance. Is there someone would like to make a motion to approve of uh the clerk's recusal from those two particular agenda items? Some move. Support.

All right. Any discussion? I guess the only thing I would say is it happens really seldom, but when it has happened, my recollection is that the person physically gets up and and sits in the audience or leaves the room if they like, but may sit in the audience. Um, I think with the one it may be rather brief. I wouldn't mind if you just wanted to sit and sort of back your chair up if you will, but I think for the other it might be best for you and for us to just have complete separation. Right. Would you like me to be in the audience or in the other room? Oh, I think that's entirely up to you. You could stay in the audience if you like. Sure. Yep. All right. So, with that then uh all in favor say I. I. I.

Any opposed? And that passes six to zero. All right. Thanks for bringing that up with the amended agenda. Then we've approved that now. And otherwise, uh, is there a motion to approve the full agenda now as amended? Some move. Support. Okay. All in favor say I. I. I.

You opposed. All right. It is passed. Item six, our monthly update from the fire department from Chief Dit. Welcome. Touchup. Just want to give you the update for November. Uh calls for service. We had a total of 121 calls for mutual aid. We gave seven requests and received seven. Year to date, 1,131. On our community outreach, we had five home safety surveys, seven smoke detector alarm installs with 11 CO detector installs. in the township for a total of 28 alarms for November. On the fire inspection investigation side, we had six structure fires, four of those which were commercial and two residential. Very, very busy month. Looking forward to it down in December.

Anything you want to point out from those structure fires? Anything noteworthy? Not really. Uh just extremely busy. Guys worked hard. We did have one injury. Um, but the individual is back on the job. So, we're very fortunate we didn't have any more injuries with how many fires we had in such a short period of time in the uh two weeks that we had the the six structure fires. Matt, a number of people have asked about Wendy's. Yes. How extensive was that? Enough where they're going to be closed down for a period of time.

Okay. um there was enough damage inside both internally and externally they're going to need to do a complete rebuild of that one side of the building which would be the west side. So it will be shut down for a period of time. I expect it to reopen at some point. Any theme to some of these fires we've had of late in terms of repeated actions that are causing um any theme? Not really. Um, with fires, you just don't know from call to call. Some of them user error. Uh, we definitely know that. Some of them just faulty equipment. So, no real theme. You really never know in emergency services what you're going to get.

Other questions? All right. Anyone else? Yep. Appreciate it, Chief. Thank you. Thanks, Pat. All right. All right, we'll move on to item seven, which are is our communication letters and reports received for information. That brings us to item eight on our agenda, which is two, we're going to have backtoback um public hearings beginning with 81, and this is Rubicon LLC that is requesting a resoning from LDR to PUB. Is there someone here tonight representing the applicant? Right.

Seeing none. Is there a motion among the board to open the public hearing? So move. Okay. It's been moved and supported. All in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Okay. The public hearing is open. Anyone here tonight uh who wishes to step forward and address this particular development uh please do so at this time. Thank you. Um, I'm Pam Weston at 644th Street. 44th Street. Um, in the proposal sent to you on number 11 that says a green belt buffer shall be planted maintained with the idea that its purpose is to block light and sound pollution from neighboring lots year round with evergreen trees along the south property line. But during the meeting and the discussion um in the minutes from the that meeting, it was Jeff Brown also agreed with the motion as laid out by Tom Healey, stating he was especially supportive of the green belt buffer between the development and the homes to the south and east of it. And so there's homes on both sides that um all the neighbors were there to discuss um requesting the the buffer of evergreen trees.

Mhm. We have a member of the plan commission here tonight and we'll ask if he recalls that as well and that's certainly a valid point to bring up if that was discussed. Okay. I have it in the minutes from the Okay. that commission. Good. And then also just to confirm um that the zoning will be neighborhood service the lowest level possible for neighborhood services. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Anyone else?

Yes, ma'am. Lori Johnson at 66844 Street. Um I wasn't at the planning meeting because I was in Mexico and we didn't get a notification. Um I think from the time it was we were gone for 3 weeks and it came while we were gone. So the time of the notice and the time of the meeting were um we didn't have that. So I do have concerns about water from that. you know, there is a little pond and a lake, little lake or pond, whatever you want to call it, on that property. And I just don't know where all this drainage is going to go to because when you um our property, initially it was a two-lane road. They took off three lanes of our property and then the bike path and then the drains that they put on the road drain right into my front yard. So that's wet all the time. And now if we if they're going to do whatever, what's that going to do to our properties as well? Where's that water going to go when they drain it? So that's my concern.

I don't know if there's been a study done or what their plans are for that. But before that's changed and we all of a sudden have multistructures and and more, what's that going to do to the Mhm. All right. We'll make sure to take that up in discussion here. Thank you. Anyone else? All right. Seeing no one else, we will entertain a motion to close the public hearing. So move. Support. Supported. All in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Okay. The public hearing is closed and um is there a motion to approve the resolution so that you can place it on the table for discussion among the board? So move.

Move and supported. Um, time for discussion now on this. I I'll just preface this to say this particular applicant, guess who who's not present tonight, but um had made himself available to some uh pre-application meetings that I was part of. I know our manager was, assistant manager, planning commissioner, uh, uh, Sammy, um, couple of others as well. I think Miss Miner was in each of them. But the point being is is this is a uh request that has been in the works for some time and has been worked through and and had uh a number of um objections or or deviations that were not acceptable and that were um you know that more or less put a halt to the plans for a period of time and and the proposed developer here uh went back to the drawing board at least once, I think more than once. And the last time they came back with the revised site plan was quite a bit different than what it started with. All that to say that um uh you know it it's been it's been pretty well vetted. However you feel about it in that corner, um I think that uh it would appear to meet the the requirements uh of the PUD, especially section 222 and 22.10. Uh but I'd like to hear comments from board members as well as uh perhaps addressing a couple of the concerns raised tonight about the screening on both the south and east and about water. So, I'm thinking I'm thinking Gary as a member of the planning commission maybe can recall that discussion unless you weren't there at that meeting. And then Kelly to hear from you, too. Yeah,

that is the national holiday of deer hunting week. Okay. All right. And uh I warned him about putting a meeting on the national holiday of deer hunting week, but they still held it without me. All right. But Ryan is back in that corner and he is our zoning administrator and he was at the meeting, so I would digress to him. Yeah. Yeah. Um Ryan, yeah, come up, but as you do, and really the invitation obviously is to all, but I know Kelly with some background in this. Have you looked at the concern about water runoff? And Ryan can maybe address that as well.

Yeah. Um storm water is really it's not a purview of our zoning ordinance. We through our general ordinances prohibit water runoff onto adjacent properties, but storm water as as a a review item is very particularly handled through the Ottawa County Water Resources Office. And we require as a township a storm water drain permit. um that proves that the applicant has worked with the water resources office to make sure that they do not have water runoff onto adjacent property and that they are handling their storm water management entirely on their site. So between Ryan's thorough review of the site and then the review done by Joe Bush's office, I'm pretty confident that um even if it's not fully vetted at this point, a lot of times it's a multi-step process. They'll come here and sort of get their entitlement approval and then work through those construction approvals. they will be held to that standard.

I hope that's from Miss Johnson. I hope that's some reassurance. I I do know like you say there's there's further meetings that are yet to come primarily with with planning commission as they refine those plans and hold them accountable. Um go ahead Ryan. You've heard the concerns that are raised as well as just generally the requests made here by the applicant.

Sure. Yeah. So, just to address the screening issue, um I did put in the motion about that south corner because that is where there's no existing trees. So, they were going to have to put a additional green belt there anyway. And the discussion at the meeting was well, you know, what if we what if we require some additional evergreen trees here just to minimize the impact on some of the adjacent properties. It's my understanding at least that the eastern side already has existing trees that meet that requirement. But one of the um one of the requirements is that they have to resubmit a plan if this is approved to me just with the the green belt. I'm happy to look at that. I'm happy to ensure that they do have the proper screening there. But at least it was my understanding that the eastern side does have a lot of foliage already. It is a wetland site. Um there is a lot of trees there already. Um but not on the south end. So the south end there will be additional trees that have to go in. Um I'm certainly certainly open to looking at the eastern side to make sure that wherever there isn't they don't meet the requirement they are going to be required to have a proper green belt there. Um but yeah

not to get just bogged down on that one point but but I can foresee where a developer could say you know this came to the the board and it said south property line. I understand you verbally said, you know, we'd hold you to the east as well. Um, but yeah, I would say you could you could change you could amend that to say the eastern side if you want because like I said right now, my understanding at least was it was just that southern portion actually closer to the road. So I would say if that's something that you would want to amend in that. But my question I guess then to you and others here would be uh when it's when it comes to us through the planning commission this manner

are we able to amend it or do we have to send it back for that amendment are we able to simply say hey we want to clarify it's more of a clarifying point there needs to be adequate coverage on the east side as well perhaps much of it already is maybe it all is I don't I don't know but whatever would be needed it seems that it should be stated do we have that authority or ability to to make that amendment at this level or is it only something we send back and say add that verbiage and send it back to us. Once again, I know it seems arduous, but that might I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Um,

if I may, the way that I read number 11, a green belt buffer shall be planted and maintained. Just that first statement there, there's a clarifying point towards the end where it speaks to the south property line, but you could read that the first few words suggest that there simply needs to be a green belt buffer as a part of the plan with evergreen trees planted on the south, but I still think they are beholden to the requirement of a green belt where it's required on all property lines. The plan the plan also does show a green belt along the entire eastern side just not specifically evergreen. That was this the discussion at the meeting that they had some additional evergreen. At least my understanding was along the south side. So they still they still are required to have a green belt along that entire they show the green belt on the entire plan. And to Kelly's point, it does state that there is a green belt does have to be maintained along the entire property along the residential.

How do the rest of you feel about that interpretation of that particular line? Is that the consensus that you read it in that fashion? Yes. Not ambiguous. Okay. Um below it, aren't they? And to the extent that the minutes could reflect it as well, which is there was discussion among the board clarifying what might have been perceived as an ambiguity and there was consensus that it was understood. Yeah. Uh consistent with I guess the planning commission and the site plans uh proposal that that green belt buffer would mean on on each side, right? Jason's all residential. Okay. Yeah.

I um I was at the meeting and said as an audience member too in the and on number nine when and she said about the NS service neighborhood service um I even walking out of there I wasn't quite totally clear did we decide did they decide to just stay with NS correct okay NS but they also excluded the uses that were listed things under so so the uses that were listed originally in the staff report were still excluded and they kept it to neighborhood service so some of Those were like drive-through facilities, funeral homes, assembly buildings. Those were allowed in NS. They still decided to exclude those uses for this development.

Just wanted that clear too. You can actually this is actually perfect. Here you can see along the this is the south actually right here. So this is the area where they're going to be required to put in the evergreen trees meet the green belt requirement. This is obviously the existing foliage here that does meet the requirement for trees.

The requirements for a green belt are pretty clear within our ordinance. And it's a green belt is per our ordinance, a green belt is required adjacent to all residential properties and it specifies exactly what needs to be planted in a green belt. Correct. I think there is sufficient coverage within our ordinance already. I do too. The ordinance is there. Yeah.

And I'll just say for the benefit of those who might go by there and say, "Oh, I love those woods." Or what was proposed originally was quite a bit more than what you see in front of you. Um, and there were deviations that were sought that were not acceptable and did not meet the requirements. Um, but I guess you could say to the credit of the developer, they they kept pairing back to the point where, you know, Manette and I know Justin was there and and Ryan, you were there and others like, "Yeah, that's okay." you know, you're you're listening, you're responding, you're adjusting. And

I like that they put um a trail through the wetlands and picnic tables and stuff so that they're have addressed that as well. Not to be cynical, but I'm not sure who's going to be walking through there. I picture those being smoking benches. Yeah. Mosquitoes or what? I don't know. Smoking bench traps. Really? Yeah. I don't know. I didn't never thought of that. Smoking. Ryan, did you have anything you wanted to highlight to the board in any way? Questions for Ryan while he's standing yet? Comments among the board discussion?

Well, I was being at the meeting. I think what was good too is that they uh they did their homework. I think even before bringing it maybe to you guys is that they had Ott County involved with a road study. um that helped out and said that you know even though it's going to bring some more traffic or whatever they thought that the road and everything else could handle it right am I correct you're correct y but with but with certain distances from corners and things they weren't just men go oh good you that looks good they no they did a pretty thorough job of all that and that was that was a good that they did that so Ryan you feel comfortable with this

yeah absolutely actually think um you know for this corner it's it's a very constrained corner with the way the wetland is laid out there. And you know, Jim mentioned that we we've seen a number of different plans. They they were trying to get creative, maybe trying to go a little too far, maybe kind of trying to blame it on the wetlands and hey, we have to do it this way. But overall, I think, you know, for the space it is, I think it's a I think it's a pretty cool development and use of a otherwise parcel that I think would go unused for a long time. It's it's difficult to develop in in those kind of areas. And I I think overall it meets the intent of a PUD.

I want to be clear here too and and Kelly you you have deeper knowledge about this and I but I know that on this particular corner you could say well it's LDR hold them to LDR. LDR wouldn't permit you know certainly these things. However, back in 2021, the planning commission when they updated the master plan specifically called out this corner as suitable for a PUD and set forth the types of things within that PUD that the township would want to see and that's what they brought. So in other words you with that compounded with that fact you the decision in some respects to say okay it's going to be developed to be something other than LDR occurred at that point in time to where you don't have the ability to to revert back and say well let's just make it LDR and the most they could do is a you know a couple of residences in there or something. Um it would be at odds with our master plan at that point. And and you'll be observant of uh Mrs. Johnson and Mrs. Weston's concerns about the evergreens.

Absolutely. So yeah. Yeah. Just to clarify again, well, they they are required to have a green belt along there. The green belt is shown on the site plan. So when we do a site inspection, if they don't meet the requirements for a green belt, they will not receive final approval. They they will have to plant trees and make sure that they meet our ordinance definition of that. So great. Thank you. Thank you, Ryan. That's right. Other comments among the board. Hey, there is a a motion before you if I'm not mistaken. Right. Yep. Yes. I didn't cut in I didn't cut off the motion. Do you have the who made the motion? Who second it? Could you remind me?

I believe I hear and I believe I made the motion. Okay. All right. Uh this is a roll call vote. So, I'm going to ask our clerk to call the role. Grassman, yes. Kelly, yes. Schwam, yes. Dit, yes. Yes. Wearing, yes. Belink, yes. All in favor?

Okay. Thank you. Now, we come to item 82 and we'll give Ellie a moment. All right. So, I know the board and I want to commend uh I want to commend Justin and Andy for providing us just good information. We had a lot. We had two PODs tonight and then a number of uh site plan staff reports under theformational agenda and just a ton to read. But uh you can you can forget the distinctions unless you revisit it often enough. And I appreciated the background information that you provided to us on both and on the the relevant uh sections of our ordinance. um this would be a situation where this particular applicant under 82 would be seeking to revise an existing PUD. Right? So I think we all understand this was a POD that was approved I want to say as far back as 2004ish and has gone through various iterations over the years. Um they're seeking an immediate revision to their last approved PUD here. Um, and so it it's not a um unlike the one before which was going from LDR to PUD consistent with what was written into the master plan. This is one that's already approved as PUD and they're looking to modify a PUD that was approved. So, uh, in that respect, they've had an approval. There's going to be something developed there. It's not a question of that. It's going to be a question of what and whether or not we feel like um this revised uh PUD meets the ordinance requirements. So with that said, uh just like the last uh matter before us here, there's going to be a public hearing. So at this time,

is there a motion among the board to open a public hearing on this particular request? Moved by Gary, supported by Amy. And so anyone have any comments on that? Nope. All in favor of opening the public hearing say I

opposed. All right. Your public hearing is open. In this case, we do have the applicant here. Right. Uh raise your hand if you're associated with this request if you don't mind. Okay. Back here a little further. Uh you're welcome, of course, to um listen to the public comment first if you wish and then to be able to address the board so that you might be able to also address potential concerns raised among the public. So why don't we turn first to others and anyone who wishes to address this please come forward

Georgetown 6877 Creek Ridge Court. I just have one question. I don't know if it was clear or not and I'm not sure if Kelly can answer this. Um I don't know the reason for her recusal. I wasn't clear on that. So, if you could give us some more details on that, that would be great. Fair enough. Thank you.

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, thanks Pete. It It's uh it's an Eastbrook uh homes development, albeit they've got different LLC's they form, I think, with each development. In this case, you've got Nevada Creek Development, Ottawa Land Investments LLC, etc. And uh Kelly is a an employee of Eastbrook Homes and hence essentially it's various affiliates should be conflicted with any one of those. Did I state that well enough Kelly or Okay, but fair enough. I should have been a little more clear about that earlier. Anyone else? Okay, see none. Is there a motion to close the public hearing?

So move. support is supported. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right. The public hearing is closed.

And we could start with a motion to approve the resolution or we could start with discussion, whatever the the uh board would like. Okay. Not hearing a motion. Uh we'll come to that unless someone surprising me here. All right. Otherwise, um just like with the previous requests here, you've got PUD requirements. You've got the various standards that all of us were reminded of here. It goes through the the planning commission of course and they have looked at this and they have approved of what they've sent to us and they're asking this board now pursuant to our uh ordinances to approve as well. Um, so I think it'd be best before we have board deliberation discussion to have our applicant come forward and both give us an overview from your perspective of what you're trying to accomplish and then be available for for questions and concerns.

Happy to do so. Thank you. Thank you. And your name? Uh, Michael McGra with East Homes. Okay. Um, yeah, as you mentioned, the project is going on or over 20 years old now. Um, I've been involved with our company for 20 years. It's a it's a family-owned company. Um, we're proud of the company, but we're proud of what the community's become also. Um, the homes have evolved, continuous improvement, and and what we're building. And over that period of time, site planning and home types and preferences, and and as buyers have aged, uh, their preferences have changed. Um, some of the members of the planning commission went and visited some similar communities. So, thank you to those who took the time to do that. I don't know if any board members were able to do so.

I have. Um, okay.

We got good feedback from that. I think it was helpful. We obviously worked very closely uh with Ryan throughout this process. It was a very detailed and thorough process to identify um various deviations we needed to accommodate this change in uh product type and offering. Um I would for whatever it's worth, I would say Ryan did a great job in working through that with me. Um, this is a sort of community I think when I just talk more broadly about communities, this is a type of community that excites me because of its diversity and what it offers. The fact that we can have a grandparent living in the same neighborhood as a kid or grandchild uh is something that excites me. It allows for variety in home types um both from a pricing standpoint, lifestyle standpoint, and that diversity creates a diverse community and a vibrant community, I would say. um a whole bunch of one thing or all of all of one thing creates kind of a monolith. And also from a from a resale standpoint, that diversity is of value. If I've got different segments of home types 10 years from now, 20 years from now, or 30 years from now, they're not all competing for the same type of buyer. So, it just creates health inside of a inside of a residential community that I don't think exists in a monolithic community of all the same thing. Um there's just some highlights. I don't think we don't have all the plans up here to go through them all, but I think some of the highlights of the changes uh are 47 unit reduction. So, you mentioned the the current PUB was approved for 829 units. We've dropped it with this application to 782. So, a 47 unit reduction what we're currently approved to build. Substantial reduction in the number of tat of attached housing units. There was uh a breakdown of that, but it's a substantial reduction in attached housing with more detached.

We've clustered the units, which you can kind of see on the plan. Um, and that allows for the addition of four large park spaces, which I think are worth mentioning. That's probably not the best plan to show, but you can still see them. I'll point them out. Can we get the green plan up? Yeah, that's a little better plan that shows a little bit. I think it's lower. Oh, sorry.

Uh, looks like five of five. This is T4426. This is the PDF. That's 14 426. There you go.

So, with this configuration, we're able to add these two parks alone are longer than a football. 400 ft in length top bottom and over 100 ft width. So, it's substantial space that'll be shared green space. Um, we have a dog park up here that didn't exist previously. A second pool for Lowing Woods along with a play park area out here and then a small uh building there. It's really a a bath house. It will have bathrooms. It will have a covered eating area. People can rent out a space there. um some pretty substantive changes from a community amenity standpoint that the sort of cluster concept affords you. Absent that, if you look at the old plan, if you just compared the current request to the original, there was none of those spaces. Um and it's, you know, the the the architecture I would say is more varied and upto-date. I don't know if you guys had the the opportunity to go through the architectural pattern book, but if you focus on the terrace homes and the town homes, which weren't in there before, they're cute. They've got front porches. You know, the garages are in the back, so they're not prominent. When you walk down the sidewalks, you see the front porches. You're engaging with the community in a way you don't uh otherwise. So, we believe it's a pretty substantive change for the better. Happens to be a unit reduction that's of substance as well. We don't often go in and say, "Hey, we want to reduce our project by 47 units." But in this case, it it made good sense. Um, you know, we were purposeful with the pedestrian circulation. There's a reason we focused that the interior. If you zoom in a little bit on this upper corner, this Yeah, that's um you'll notice that the sidewalk doesn't cross any driveways. Um it's here all along the front porches. You do

have to cross the all the alley um here in a couple spots, but otherwise you're not crossing driveway. So we tried to focus the pedestrian circulation in a spot where there's fewest interruptions. Same for this. Uh there sidewalks here and double here with some connectors in the middle. Now, the amenities exactly how we view these are. We leave some room for artistic and landscape interpretation. Whether those become gathering spaces with a patio or shared fire area, we're not exactly sure yet, but the whole layout is kind of just much more inviting and engaging and and creates a real nice neighborhood feel. Um because each of these will have their own private courtyard in the middle which they they can use in any way they see fit. They could be raised garden beds. Now, maybe zoom in further. It's worth pointing this out. Those that didn't get through the architectural pattern book. This is a space specific to this unit. They can put hardcape in there. Uh they can do grass or they can do any variety a number of different things. And then these areas are all along with the areas up front. And those are all mowed, irrigated, fertilized by the HOA. So it creates consistent feel when you drive through it. It's mowed on the same day of the week. It's like condominium in that sense and that you have control over making sure everything's irrigated, fertilized, and mowed correctly correctly. So

we think there's a lot of benefits. Happy to answer any questions you might have. Um and if if you want to go through the pattern books, if that's worth discussion, we can do that. I just didn't know it was appropriate as far as a length of presentation tonight. But um so square footage square well there's a variety of different home types in this section of the ones in the center. The terrace homes. Yeah. No range probably 15ish to over 2,000 square feet. So they're not twotory.

Some are two we we offer a ranch plan in that product type as well. And then two of the three other plans are all our main floor master bedrooms. So there's only one plan in that terrace home offering that has all the bedrooms upstairs and it's our least popular plan. The majority that people will choose in here will have a bedroom have a owner suite on the main floor. Are these all basement? No basement. No basement. Okay. Do you provide any kind of shelter or something like that then for tornado shelter or something like that for people to go to or you just

No, no, it's we've been building slab ongrade construction. Not as the the majority of our offering, but it's been a substantial part of our offering at East Homes for probably 10 years now. Okay. Um and it's ever growing with people desiring living on on a main floor. But no, there's no we hadn't had that question before. Six foot privacy fences. Where are where are those at and why do what you need further I can explain how those function you right here. So I'm just going to use A1 as an example. This unit here. So this would be the south end of this unit. This

this side would be called the passive side of this unit. So there be kind of transom windows here. This is the active side. So all full height windows looking out on this space. So this fence and this fence and the one in front back create this yard for A1. This is that interior space I was describing that could be garden beds. It could be a number of different things. We have photography that you put to the architectural pattern book. There's a bunch of examples in there, but it's basically creating this space. The next unit, same thing. and they just kind of each have a big sideyard space and then the space between the garage and the house itself creates a very nice living situation for outdoor. You can do an outdoor kitchen and a number of but the the fence is because you are living in closer proximity than you might be if you bought a big lot. This creates that privacy you want without having the giant yard that a lot of people don't want to take care of. It's interesting with this product and we've seen it appeal to empty nesters, but we've also seen it appeal to young professionals and single parents who don't want to take care of a halfacre yard. And then in the town, similar concept, but the fencing, you asked specifically about the fencing that does the same thing here, that private space that frankly in many condominium situations lack. So you don't have a private outdoor space outside because most condominiums are in the context of a uh where all the general common elements. They don't actually have specific space that only they can use. in a way that no other condo setup can.

That answer your question?

Is there a chance that you would uh think about going off of 36th Street first before you would do a unit like that just to for um like was brought up planning commission as far as emergency vehicles, buses, this and that next thing. Give you an easier route than heading all the way down to winding through to Tyler Street. It's not this the neighborhood as a whole has this will be the third connection to a major road or an ex a road external to our projects. We've got a connection in Taylor 36 and Bower which is more than most communities have. So it's not uncommon within the context of the whole community to have pockets that connect internally only. And I would say in the case this right that question did come up. Um, obviously we have to meet all the requirements proced and I I think I made this comment the planning commission and this is probably one of the most parts of a community that has the most redundant ways to get out of anywhere else because of the cross connections of the alley. The scenarios you hear thrown out like what if a tree and we can't get back there. Well, in this case, you've got so many different ways to get out. is probably one of the safest place from an access standpoint. Two connections out here, the main road and then a concern me at all. No, it does not approval of fire department.

It would just believe be a lot easier if that 36 connection was there even for construction wise whatever I bring in. Um I don't think it would appeal to people in the same way. Oh, because you you do we have our connection here. I think this is going to create an intimate kind of sub community of a larger community which is kind of what you want. You create a pocket of condominium form of ownership. So to me I think it's planned very well obviously. No I mean I like the plan. I just wondered if what's below it 36 connecting 36 would be

you're talking about sequence of of not he's not talking about a new connection from this develop. He's saying sequencing it. So that Yeah. That that will put in first. I did misunderstand. I'm sorry. Maybe I didn't come across right. Um I go back to my first comment and that we've got two existing forms of access. And actually from here you could go this way or you could go this way. So you do have two different ways out. Uh, personally for me, it doesn't concern me from a marketing standpoint.

Hollis Drive in Deer Haven Drive out there in phase 15. What is the width? Are those like 24 the the actual public roads? Okay, so they're 66T easement, but how wide is the actual ash? Every I think Ottawa County roads are 30 foot. I believe I could be mistaken. And then the it's a standard uh residential public street as every other one in Okay. And any of the other public subdivisions. Help me. Then the surrounding what you call private road A, private road B, private road C. What is the width of those? Are those 24 or what? 22. What's the the So the C the the oval if you will?

I mean I'll have to look at the plans. I don't want to mis they look wider obviously than the alleys. I the alleys have to be at least 20, right? To get approval from fire department. Is that what those are? I don't want to speak without having my plan in front of me. I didn't expect that.

It as you're grabbing it, Michael. I mean, that is that is the thing that I trip over the most as I look at this is is those roads, those alleys as you referred to it, going what would that be? north and south. And then you've got the surrounding private roads which are slightly wider. Um how many units in all in there? 121. 782. No, but in the just this section we're looking at how many units are in there? Units in that particular section. You can go back down. I mean, I can do that.

No, that's all right. It it looks to be it's certainly over a hundred. Whatever it It's a lot. C A, B, and C equal 121. What is it? I had 121 between A and C. Sounds about If you just added A, B, and C, then I'm sure you've got it right. All right. And And yeah, the width on the north and south alleys 20 ft. And then how about the 26 26 on the perimeter private road A, B, and C. and Hollist and those public they're 30 or 36

26 is consistent with pretty much every most of the private roads and 20 is not at all uncommon for we built some narrower than that but we're reviewed in detail by the fire department. Yeah, they they may pass the fire department but I'm not sure that that automatically means public health, safety and welfare from the standpoint of the board in in protecting residents. So I I get it that it passed fire. I'm just concerned about it. Were concerns raised about the width in particular of those alleyways because that's where you're if you look at for example those there's no none no concerns were raised at the planning commission with respect to the alley widths.

Uh not how about to just traffic safety in general and pedestrian safety. Not with not pertaining specifically to the width of the alleys. No. What were they what was it pertaining to if it was raised? Well, the comments that were raised about health and safety had nothing to do with the interior of our projects at all. They had to do with Filillmore and uh primarily Filillmore was what was discussed at the planning commission meeting unless I'm misremembering, but that was a prepoundonderance of the comments were pertaining to that. Okay. Not related to the interior design of this project.

What did the Filillmore people complain about? There's more broadly talking about traffic and light pollution and certain things like that that came up. But yeah,

it's an interesting setup. I mean, the the single family homes that are around the outside of it are semi-traditional, albeit very close together, but they've got your drive, you've got your attached garage, you've got your access to the 26 foot wide private drive road. Um, it's more that alleyway that really concerns me because a number of those that is essentially their front, right? Because it's the only street that they face, street, if you will, alley. Um, in fact, for most of them, is that considered the front? Is the alley considered the front of these different lots? If you're asking me, I have uh I think the way your ordinance is read, that would be how you'd have to because there's no other road that those interior ones front on. I've never heard of that referred to as a front, but it is the only only uh vehicular access to this row, this row, this row, and this row. Obviously, these on the end have the road in front and the alley behind,

right? They they have the road in front that they look at on those end ones there. Um I just, you know, even those that have that road that they look over, everyone goes down those alleys uh at 20 ft of width. Um where do where do they park? Where will people park other than the two cars that go in the garage for one of those units? You've got the rest of your family over. It's Thanksgiving. you've got uh a party at your place, you've got a graduation party, whatever the case may be. You could say that even for those outside private drives, where do people park? Um there's not it doesn't seem you know what they will do. I I suppose you've got some areas, I think, where you could go to some additional parking there in the lower right hand corner. Um and I see some along that private road C and some along private road A. So, I see where they've they've put you guys have put some spaces in there, but realistically, go ahead. I don't think

Let me ask you try to answer your question. You asked where would they park? My first answer would be the two spaces you mentioned obviously in the garage. And every single one of these units also has a driveway where two additional cars could fit, which isn't dissimilar than from traditional, you know, front-loaded single family housing. And then in addition to the normal, we do have the parking spaces you alluded to that aren't in every subdivision or even every condo project for that matter. You have parking in four different locations there plus the additional parking for the pool. So, we were pretty intentional about adding additional parking in addition to the garages and driveways. So, um that was not brought up as a concern.

Yeah, I agree with you, Jim. In January, I'm not going to carry my potato salads if I cooked from one of those parking lots to one of those interior units. I'm going to figure out a way to jimmy my car in somewhere. And if there's too many people there, I'm going to figure out a way to park along the side. Um I'm I'm envisioning you're driving down one of those roads. It could be a nice it could be a nice part of the year, but people in those driveways with such little distance to that narrow alleyway that you know the ball goes out there and the kid chases it. It's not the kind of visual Wait, the ball goes out from from where? It could go out from from you know the yard there alongside the house past the garage into the the alley and they go

well one it can't do that because you have so I guess the difference maybe what's being missed is and this form of living this becomes a very utilitarian corridor where you do have vehicular traffic and you do have to accommodate the parking for the for the unit itself but the living occurs here and out front. I mean, so if you go downtown into look at some of the alley situations there, I and we have other communities like this that we've developed. I've not seen guests park in the alley if that's what you're wondering. I can't sit here and say no one's ever going to try to do that. I don't know if they were intentional with with the parking uh that we added in addition to the driveway. So,

what Yeah. Did didn't you encourage us to look at Makatau Legends? was not one of the places that you wanted people to look at to to the style of similarities not as many as as uh Cook's Crossing but yeah ma m some portions of Makatawa are similar in some respects

Makatawa had more uh roadway more I don't know if it was public or but wider uh I think of where I lived if you're trying to to replicate sort of a throwback I think of where I lived in Granville for a number of years and and you had the alleyway still with the small garage that were originally constructed for carriages and and what have you, but even those had a public road up front where you parked if you whether you're the homeowner or you're a guest, you didn't you didn't go down that alley because you had that option here. I don't see that option. I don't see I don't see the the traffic uh setup there and parking setup as as uh as safe. Honestly,

I guess my response would be every time we've had an opportunity to create a community like this and there's an option to create units and homes that front onto a green park space and a park space. I recognize Macau wasn't a great example of that. Some of those homes did uh but others fronted onto onto a road. the homes that front onto a green space like these units here, let's just say these two rows that are detached. So, they're similar in respect both on the ends. These will be preferred by customers because of the fact that they front onto a shared green. It's not perceived as a negative. In fact, it's a positive. You look at storm water impervious surface. the fact that we have an opportunity to create a community design that doesn't have twice as much black top as is actually necessary. most places we've gone that's been received as very much a positive and something that the customers view as a positive and the the only other thing I say with respect to the alleys is that it meets all the uh requirements of the probably the most important agency that's going to look at it and that's the fire department and that's who we always no different than when I design public roads I have to ask the road commission how to build them when I design a storm sewer system I have to talk to the Ottawa County water resources commission as to how to design it. And when I talk about safety and road construction and road widths, the fire department is the one that has a say on that. So that's that's

I mean it's one thing to talk about getting a vehicle very large, you know, firet truck or something potentially in there uh to put out a fire or some other sort of emergency matter. It's another just to say the general day-to-day safety of um of of the residents themselves, right, which is part of our charge. Fair enough. tax. Fair enough. These roads are not road commission roads, though. Private roads. It's all private roads, right? Private road. Understood. I was just using it as an example. I realize that, but you said the you got to go with the Ottawa County Road Commission for the roads. You don't think it's private road?

No, that's not what I was saying. I was saying if I was just making a comparison between the the fire department having purview over this particular aspect of any community design is that they have purview over the radius and the private roads because the road commission doesn't and they look at the private road design. They looked at I think your your write up talks about it. They looked at this eyebrow. They looked at the geometry here. They looked at the alleys. They did specifically look at the width of the alleys and determined them to be sufficient. So that's why we designed it that way. That's how we designed it. It got approved. I didn't anticipate um I guess a lengthy conversation on it. But that doesn't mean we can't talk about it. I just don't know what else how else to say how it got to where it is. That that's how the design ended up here and it was approved by who I thought was the the per the uh agency that had uh purview over that. My my question would be because it's so dense, it all looks green now, but we have actually have snow right now. I see a huge issue with trying to remove snow out of that project. And with snow banks, it does create an issue for fire trucks and whatever because if you don't get them cleared out in the corners, you're going to have a problem.

I don't think I limit that comment, Gary, to firet trucks because the fallback is, well, the fire pe you know, the fire chief said okay. I think just to to the health, weight, welfare, and safety of residents, right? But I'm denselying. I'm just I just think it's it's pretty dense when you got to start taking care of snow out of that whole business. So that's not going to be plowed by the road commission. It's be plowed by private. Correct. What do you think?

Deal with snow removal in community. I don't want to argue with you guys. That's not what I came here to do. I just wanted to present what we designed and I don't have concerns about storm removal. We have other communities that are similar to this. Cooks Crossing, I was there today. We've had a bunch of snow. I took a guy came over from Dwit Township to tour projects with me. I took him to that one. I wasn't worried about there being an inability to park. All the parking spaces we have there were available to me to park and take him and walk him through units. Um I mean, we could go through and I could tell, well, I think a snow plow would push snow here. That's not my area of expertise. We hire professional store removal companies to take care of that. So, I don't want to tell you I don't think that's what you want to do is let me make the case for why it would work fine. I I think it would um but it's it's fair for you to bring up the concern, I suppose.

Are all the garages two stall garages? Correct. Or some there are some threes there are some opportunities with stall and all these units around the perimeter are semicustom. Same with some of these. Now, there are some where we know we have space for a third garage, but at minimum they will have a two salt or two garage. You know, Michael, I don't think so much that we're arguing as we are giving you a chance to acquit yourself on some of our concerns.

Um, and to your point about who has the purview, I mean, it's in our ordinance. That's why we're here, right? That we've got to pass. We've got to pass not in a rubber stamp sense, but we need to pass on what they've decided. And I understand we do show them great difference. Our plan commission does a great job and appreciate often what they bring us is more or less in what you might call final form. Um, but we have to independently as a body think through these things and I appreciate you, you know, staying standing there and giving it back, you know. So,

absolutely. You know, I think with respect to the road configuration, the conversations that were had at the planning commission, with respect to the alleys, the width were basically that this is what we charge our fire folks to do. And they knew it had been reviewed. There's a letter in there that talked about some things that still have to be resolved with how we handle uh fire and safety for those center sixunit buildings in each run. But outside of that, they placed faith in the fact that the fire department had done the review and approved it from that standpoint.

Talk to me for a moment if you would about sidewalks. I know that there was some mention of the fact there might be a request for some waiver from the utilities committee um you know forthcoming. But but unless and until that would happen, does this depict all the sidewalks that will be included in the plan or some just not on there in anticipation that they may be waved? This is a depiction of how we would like to build the project and and is how it was presented to the planning commission and that was why I mentioned it earlier. But yes, we the waiver would be required for one to not have sidewalk on the perimeter. I think it's required in both sides of the road. Point to that if you would. What you mean?

Well, there is no sidewalk on the outside ring. So, one of the first things I mentioned with the design of the project is that we put the sidewalk on the inside throughout the project along the park spaces with the thought being that you don't cross driveways. Here you've got it's a it's a more compact form of living. So, we take the pedestrian traffic, focus it here where you don't have to cross nearly as many driveways. Um, so we would need a waiver to not have it on the outside and technically we need a waiver to not have it in the alleys. We have never once done a rear loaded project. We got the garage is in the back and I grant you that your ordinance also the front but for the purposes of public in the back. We have never put sidewalk in an alley in any town effort makes a lot more sense to put that traffic on the front. So the way ready clarify I'm missing anything but I think the sidewalk waiver is to not have it on the alley and not have it on the outside. Is

that accurate? It's going to be on the east side. Are you going to put it on the east side to connect with Hollis Drive and Yes. Yes. There will be a sidewalk there. Correct. Okay. That'll be normal just to connect the residentials. So this whole project will be a condominium.

There will be yes there will be multiple condominium association attached units. So that would be one, two, three, these six buildings because those have to include exterior building maintenance. Whereas on the deep hatch, we do not include exterior builder up to the homeowner decide when they paint their front door. But the rest of the exterior of the grass, they will be part of a condominium association.

The exterior just be the snow plowing in the grass. still plowing, fertilization, um trash trash, mowing, um flowers or

weed removal. So, anything that's basically visible to the other residents, like the front portions of all these, the only thing that's not taken care of by the HOA from a grounds standpoint, which is this space on the inside. Now the outside we envision those owners and we might set that up so they can take care of their own. I'm not positive about that or take another step but still be an association over those. We got a central postal area then for them too then or how do you do that postal area where they get their mail all so every community we do just has one have a central post one big

uh and I don't know handle that specific thing but again the post office who tells us how to do it I think there is space I don't know for sure but we have a bunch of them at the clubhouse now we would have space to put another one up here It's really dictated by the postal carrier how many the lo locations they'll even allow you inside of a project of this size. Even for all of Loing Woods they've they've become very particular not just in Georgetown but anywhere we do a community of even 50 houses they still want them in ideally one or two spaces. So yes it will be there will be no individual mailboxes but I can't speculate as to exactly where the postal carrier want us to place that. How about garbage? Will that be there a central area for that as well or they go down the alleys picking up from each individual

individual uh trash recepticles? They'll roll. No, probably the same thing you have at your house for a one trash and one recycling. I was assuming you have recycling, but yes, I that's how these would be treated as well.

Any more questions for Michael? When I come on the utilities committee, I'm I'm concerned about the lack of sidewalks. Um, that bothers me a great deal. The alleys being 20 ft wide, uh, that very much concerns me. Uh, snow removal, uh, garbage trucks going down there, visitors. So, are the visitors going to have to go to one of those other areas and then walk? If you have people that just stop by and there's not parking because both stalls are taken and they park on the road and then you're trying to get a garbage truck down or snow plowing. Um I am very very concerned. Uh this is uh very unique, but I'm worried about traffic and I'm worried about safety.

It may be unique to here, but I would say it's not unique to many places. It's not uncommon uh in residential communities to have alley loaded homes that are fronting onto a park space. And I I guess I wish we had spent time looking at the photography because I think you are missing maybe the benefit of something that's not the same as everything else that's around here. Some of the dimensional challenges aside now if that alley were 26 ft, would that make the difference? like we still we still personally wouldn't want people parking on that and we would say that you shouldn't park back there and I would tell you right now that I've not once driven through a community like this where people have parked in the alley. That's the reason there are other transient spaces I'll call them for visitors and you're talking about a walking distance of like if you have to walk the longest distance the very longest from here to the middle is like 200 ft. I mean,

that's not a long distance, but I don't share a concern about people having to walk from their car to visit. Uh, there's some signage going up also, wasn't there? And that uh when you talk to the fire department as far as not parking and certainly wasn't that I mean Ryan might know all the requirements better than me, but whatever requirements were, we are there obligated on that too. But children have to cross a street to get to a sidewalk. Yes. Yeah.

Well, we have, and I think this was cited in our submitt, there are multiple condominium projects inside of this township that have no sidewalks. Two of which exist inside of Lowing Woods that we built that you approved that have no sidewalks. Not not on one side of the street. They have them on zero sides of the street. So, it's not without precedent. And I would say that by focusing the pedestrian traffic here where they're not crossing a driveway is better. Yes, they have to cross a street once, but they don't have to cross 46 driveways as they're going around the perimeter where people are backing out. Now, I understand that in other parts there are driveways across the sidewalk. It's just when you have a different form of living, we felt like this is better. That's not to say we're completely against the idea of putting them there, but we presented it in this way cuz we thought it rationale behind what we were requesting.

So, in Loing Woods, did we approve a variance for them not to have sidewalks or was that before there there was a requirement? I can't. I do not know. Okay.

I've I have not had to come. We had this project. I started at Eddiesburg in 2005 other than being a part of the business basically since I was born, but I was out of state for 10 years doing other things and came back. This PUD was approved. I don't think I think at that I mean we've had to come back in for every subsequent phase approval. Some of you sitting here probably know better than I do and maybe you can answer your question, John, better than I'm capable of answering. But if it would have been a contentious thing, we wouldn't have sent our engineer in to do it for us. I would have been here and I haven't had to be here. So, um I just know we have those two streets. Brayburn and Bray Ridge are the two streets in there that do not have sidewalks on them. And they are all single family. Uh there's a combination of attached and detached condominium units.

Okay. Thank you. Yep. Anything else for Michael? Appreciate it. Thank you. Yep. Okay. Well, among the board discussion I I sometime Oh, go ahead, Jean. Yeah.

Um I'm in favor of it to be honest with you. I might be maybe the only one, but um this isn't their first day at in school, I guess, to at putting up these projects and seeing some of the deviations that were in the notices that I think they are going to be able to met be able to meet. Um I understand some of the concerns, but I do also like the sidewalks going inside and through rather than on the outside. I think that is a um Yeah. So the kids got to cross the street, but they're cross the street in a condo unit with so what the road is only 24 ft wide. It's not like they're crossing four lanes of bald or something like that. Um if if we do have that kind of families that are on on there anyway. Like I said, could be um young marrieds, it could be older ones, um could be, you know, 80% of who uh decides that it's not a place that I'd probably be because I don't like running through the rain from garage to my to my house or go through a snowstorm to get into my house. I I see, you know, it's not something that I would probably really be interested in, but if the interest is there and um I the location where it's at to as far as maybe a township is to maybe it ain't the right word is to try this kind of concept and see how it goes. I think they've got a perfect setting for that. Um it's not that we're telling it this way we want both township to go, but if we want to see and get some different kind of housing developments in and and see how it goes. Plus, you know, big concern of the planning commission was cars and traffic and everything else. And by cutting it down by 47 less units, I mean, that's probably 100 different cars that ain't going to be there. 100 plus more people aren't going to be using 36 of Filillmore, which that doesn't seem like a lot, but that was also a main concern

of a lot of people. So, um I guess I'm in favor of with the um passing with the what the planning commission suggested. You mentioned you were at the planning commission meeting or meetings about this and you mentioned something about traffic and safety concerns. You heard? Yeah. Some of the residents that were Filmore, but did they address it within the complex at all?

The major thing was in there was was uh somebody crew up which didn't even really live in there was um schooling school buses getting through. But you know, they don't have to go into the project. The kids if there is kids will come to the end of the road anyway. And it's not going to be any harder for them to do that than it would be to go through Georgetown Forest with the maze that's that's there. So, and and the concern was fire, which most of that going through the fire spectre seems to have been met. Um, height, I think, was an issue on one of it, but they guaranteed that they weren't going to be over 30 foot high because that was if they went over 30 ft, they would definitely have to have the road a little bit wider through the alleys to put a ladder truck or whatever like that. But, uh, um, they met all those and they are working on a couple, like you said, a couple of those little condos to be able to reach with a 100 foot line and all that kind of things. But um but the plan commission uh they didn't discuss some of the concerns that were raising about

sidewalk was was talked about, but they I think they figured that being around in there that that could be waved. Um I didn't really hear too much about snow and garbage and that kind of stuff really I don't think was really brought up. Um, I mean Ryan's got some, if you read the minutes or what Ryan wrote, they're pretty consistent exactly word for what what they what was said at that meeting. But,

um, yeah, I took a long time and I did drive out to one of East Brook's other things out there. I like this better than I seen there cuz a couple of them there we had two or three units but they're almost like on a hill and and um I don't know how they got through some of that because that looked a lot more difficult to get around and maneuver and um than this would be being on just a nice flat referring to what referring to the current plan what what they have out in center that just to take a look at. I I did drive out there and and seen the concept of the alleyway and things like that. I I I think this is a lot better and easier layout than what they had to go through up there. How so?

Just cuz being on a hill and all that kind of thing, it was they had like two of them and there was a little alleyway and it just seemed a little more confusing to me than this does. Um, I like this a lot better just being flat out and right it own little So you both spoke on the residents from Filillmore complaining about different things, but most of the people are from Filillmore. So is it because this development is too close to their backyards on

Well, they can they made concerns about uh there's some big pond or something that was dug water retention area and they all wondered about that. And that was, you know, like Ed Kelly had said before, water resource thing that made them make it bigger just to handle not this thing but project 15 and everything else. They just had enough place for water to run and there was some of them that complained about but I don't know if it was anything from this one is already what's in progress with with the lighting from street lights and stuff like that. Now, of course, winter time, um, they can see some of those lights through their trees and and and a big thing was just all the traffic now Fillmore. I don't know if you can really blame that on that because Grand Valley is getting so so big that

Well, I suppose traffic is Grand Valley. Suppose the rebuttal to that is that the currently approved PUD there is for more units than is this. the traffic issue is almost already it's already baked in the cake in a sense, you know, in that respect. Right.

Right. So, um, yeah, I know sometimes in in, you know, Ryan will sometimes set up or allow people set up pre-application meetings and the like. Here, you already had an approved PUB, so I didn't consider it unusual that we didn't do that here, but sometimes that fleshes out some of these concerns because there is a dual process of approval both before the planning commission and then coming before this board as well. And sometimes you don't know what one body thinks um you know until you've gone through the other and and reached that second body. So I looking at this independently and looking at the the requirements section 2210 in particular because I think I'm going to state concerns I want to be very particular and precise and not um just generally uh you know come up with opinions. I I look at sections A and and C of section 2210 of our standards for approval uh for a PUD and it talks about the proposed PUD complying with all qualifying conditions of section 22.2 and also that the proposed uses within the PUD will not possess conditions or effects that would be injurious to the public health, safety or welfare of the community. So A and C to me are relevant here. And then looking at 22.2 to the qualifying conditions, the ones that seem relevant there, uh would include, in my mind, both pedestrian, letter E, and traffic, letter G, more so traffic, but also pedestrian really. Um, we tend to think of pedestrian, you know, they have to be going down a sidewalk or intending to get from point A to point B. Sometimes it's just usages in the in the area, you know, in and around the roadway, um, children or otherwise, right? So F or I'm sorry, E and in and G of 22.2 fall back to to requirement A under 22.10 and then you've got letter C there under 22.10 again with the public health,

safety or welfare of the community. I I look at that and you've kind of heard me by now just with some of the questioning, but I'm not satisfied with with the answers tonight on those concerns. It it works great in one place or another until it doesn't. um until somebody has a real issue, whether that be somebody being struck and killed. And that can happen anywhere. It can happen with any width road. I fully acknowledge that. I feel like the I feel like the risk is heightened with what's been proposed here. I feel like the width of those alleys is not sufficient for the usage that is intended. Whether that be for parking, whether that be for um pedestrians, whether that be for uh you know traffic at cross purposes with garbage truck and and um other uses that will be foreseeable. Uh I don't think practically speaking that people are going to necessarily park and walk. Um I it just seems like it's a creative idea. I I would hand it I mean Eastbrook does great work. We've seen their work in in this community and other communities and I've known his father Mick from way back and obviously we're dealing with an experienced, capable, creative, successful builder, right? And we've got a very good planning commission and they do a good job and they've vetted much of this so that when you say well is it too close to the they've they've looked at that you know I mean I think they are very careful in those things and you could say to some degree is it a is it a judgment call I guess it is and we're charged with exercising that judgment on behalf of our residents and to me the especially those alleyways there and the way that that's configured to me is injurious to the public health, safety or welfare of the community. I think it can be done better, safer. Uh I'm not here to

prescribe, you know, you need to do exactly this width or feet, but what I see and what's being proposed, um I don't think is in the ultimate best interest of our residents, including those that would buy in there with eyes wide open, okay? and those that would come after them and the guests that would come to visit them and the third parties that would come to, you know, fix things and pick things up like garbage and the like. I um I don't think I don't think the traffic and the pedestrian qualifying conditions are met under 22.2 and I don't think therefore that letter A under 22.10 is met under this current plan. Uh nor do I think letter C under 22.10 is met either. Um, so you've got one for and you got one against and no motion on the floor, I might add. So,

well, that's why we had you come up early. I don't mind. Go ahead, Michael. But that's why we gave you a chance to, as you put it, argue with us, but

meeting, which I did have with both Ryan and the fire department. We had them review for these things and that's why it came to you in this form. It wasn't like I'm hellbent on this 20ft alley. It was how we designed it. Yes. But it also was reviewed by the portion of your township that I thought I thought and maybe I wrongfully assumed that they were the ones who had the say on the road design and the geometry because generally when we have to do like movement sometimes we'll have to do turning movements. We'll have to put like the engineers can do those things where they show exactly how a vehicle is going to move. We'll have to do a variety of different things to uh get them to work. And then usually once it passes that muster that at least that part recognizing we got to go through a lot often times the planning commission and board to deal with other comments. But that but we did they did look at that and Ryan can speak to that if you want him to but um that's how why it came to you in that form. It wasn't us saying well this is you know absolutely how it's got to be. I think we are willing to to listen and have some flexibility. It's just up to this you know this is how it got here to this point. And then with respect to the the only thing I'd say in the comments from the public, we had not one person neither tonight or the previous meeting show up specifically for our project. Their comments were general in nature. They did comment related to Loing Woods phase 15. I think as when we were looking at those lots

on the ravine, north end of 15 where those people on film were like, well, I can kind of see those houses now. Well, not surprisingly, the leaves are off the trees, but the comments I just think it's fair to to clarify that they were more general in nature. They weren't specific to ours and in fact when we talked about this being a 47 home reduction kind of following up on yours I said well that's not going to make it worse you know so yeah fair point thank you so should we vote on it well others wish to express

I'm still struggling with that I just think it's just too close too narrow roads no room for movement It's I I've never seen a project like this. I guess it's that close. That that that's too many people, too many buildings with narrow driveways. Kevin,

I'm right there as well. And first thing I time I looked at it, I thought, and you're you're right on top of every one of your neighbors. And I I I lived in a house for 20 plus years that had a shared driveway. And granted, it wasn't my own personal driveway, a shared driveway. And I had 20 ft, not even 18 ft between my house and the other house. And it was the most I wouldn't do it again. Let's just say that. And again, looking at this, I know it's not. You have individual driveways, individual lots, but it just seems to me it's just so dense. I'd hate to have one of those units catch fire because it seems like it would just go from unit to unit. at least at least the heat damage from one unit to the next unit be be right there.

Sheen any Oh, I'm sorry.

I very much appreciate Mike's professionalism and the quality of work that they they do. They're well known and they're committed to the communities, but um the alley at uh 20 ft wide and I I agree with Gary that is just an incredible concern. uh garbage trucks, snow removal, children being able to lack of sidewalks. Um I just see a lot of red flags with this, but very narrow. Um I was brought up on an alley and it's a, you know, when the garbage truck comes, it all becomes one way when that thing's going down. Um I'm concerned about that. Yeah, I had an alley, too, but we had a public street on the other side. We did. Yes. Jean, um,

you look at I don't know if you looked at what the proposal was before this. Mhm. As far as residential and more condos down on a corner. I mean, it looks like almost at that one, the road might come off to 36, but um, that's a lot in a small space. Also, I mean, you're cramming another 47, you know, units into there and stuff yet, too. Um, I think they made every effort to do what they've been told to do and everything else. And the um I'm sticking what the planning commission um approved and um yeah, I guess that's about it.

Fair enough. I think that further that prior iteration, the one that's already been approved um is pretty compact and all that, but it's approved, right? I mean this board may may have viewed it differently had they looked at it then but I think that it is materially different too here though the concerns being raised are materially different than the way it's current you know currently configured it presents some unique threats you know if you will um which which may be addressed and may be resolved that you know what's that that's a pretty harsh word but yeah I get you yeah wrong maybe uh well I mean are we talking if we're talking health, safety, and welfare, I guess it is.

Should I use the word injurious? I was more judicious. Um, I hear you. I mean, I guess like you said, it's been approved in other places. I guess reasonable minds perhaps can differ, but we're charged with not others residents, but our own. Right. Right. Um, so anyone wish to comment any further? I don't want to belver this any more than we have, although it's important. So I want to take the time necessary. Anyone else hearing? No one else. We got to make a motion. Yeah, there is no motion presently. Make a motion to approve and then either approve that or deny it.

Yeah, if you think you got a second. Um, we haven't heard much from Amy, but you could try with the motion to approve or I could start with I make a motion we approve as brought forth by the planning commission with the deviations and stuff set in by the by Ryan. Yeah. And according to the resolution recommended by the planning commission here that's in the agenda, right? Yes. Is there a second to that motion?

Okay. Hearing none, that motion fails. Uh, I'll move then to deny the resolution. Uh, the the proposed resolution rather, deny the application, I think is the more precise way to put it. And I want to be specific so that um if I'm the applicant, I know what concern I'm addressing. So, I've done it already, but I want to do so in my motion. I would move that we deny this particular application to revise the existing PUD pursuant to section 22.10 10 subsections A and C as well as then A pointing towards section 22.2 two and I would say subsections E for pedestrian and G for traffic. Um for the reasons I already stated previously here that I find that those conditions or standards are not met. Uh not suggesting they it can't be with the further redesign or that they have to go back to what they have presently. I don't know. But I just know that what is in front of us here in my opinion um doesn't meet those standards. So that's my motion or a second.

Some move support. Okay. Supported by Gary. Um further comment discussion either on the language of the motion or further stated opposition. Jean, if you wish. No. Anyone? All right. This is a roll call vote and we do not have our clerk. So I will call the role. Uh John, yes. Jean, no. Okay. Supervisors, yes. Amy, yes. Gary, yes. And Kevin, yes. Okay. So, 1 2 3 4 to one. Uh, yes.

Um, I I'd say not at this time, but you can certainly talk to us or talk to me or Right. I I or even use your public comment period at the end if you don't mind. I I don't think we want to maybe overstep in that respect or not being prepared for what those questions might be. I also don't want to step in something. So, I get it. You're curious. We'll address it. Planning Commission will address it. All right. Moving on now to item number Well, let's have Kelly rejoin us. We're going to move on to item Oh, I'm sorry, Kelly. 10A premature. My My apologies to you. Uh,

for uh Oh, of course. Yep. And I did say before two 10 is is brief enough that just stay right here. All right. So, uh, number nine then, public comments about items on the agenda this evening. And and I guess even though we had a public hearing already, if you want to make a statement backward looking to things covered or forward looking to things yet to be covered in this meeting, you're welcome to do so at this time. There you go. There's your opening. There's your opening. Okay. I app First I want to say I appreciate all your thoughts. I know you guys are here to do the best job you can for your community. So I don't I don't take personal.

Thank you, Mike. And Michael, I'm we're going to listen intently right now, but I also don't want you to be confused if we're not doing back and forth like we were. We we tend to use this to absorb and listen. So

I just think I would my comment would be on health safety stuff. I thought I was going to the correct source for that. So I think there's a a and you stated it's your opinion that we don't meet it. So I just want to be clear. I guess what you owe us as a property owner in this township and the and an applicant is clear. And who do we go to to resolve the issues with respect to if it's if is it the alley width? Is there a specific width that in your opinion would be better? I mean, we did adjudicate those. We thought with the proper body here in the township, and I guess if there's specific direction we need, I would ask that either I get that through Ryan or somebody. I don't I know you may not want to respond right now, but I do need to pro be provided clarity on how I am to meet your interpretation of those sections and I will go back and read them so I understand them better. The only other thing I want to comment on that came up is that, you know, Kevin's comment that I wouldn't live in that situation again and it's just too tight. I think we have to be careful and I have to do this when I design home plans that I'm not designing something specifically for me at my stage in my life right now. Would I live there? No. I I wouldn't. It's not right for me right now. But I'm charged with building residences that appeal to a lot of different buyer groups. That doesn't mean it's the the terrace home or the town home is a right solution for everyone here. Is it the right solution for a recently divorced parent who wants to stay in Loing Woods with her kids? Possibly. We need to consider what their preferences are rather than your personal preference because I recognize we all have personal preferences. I walk through homes that we build for a customer that wouldn't be built for me, but I'm not building every home for me. I'm building them for them. So we need to think about that that in the context of the living situation choices we allow for. So not everyone wants an 85 ft lot and a half acre to mow and take care of. People do want different choices. I just I want I would just ask that based on some of the back and forth I heard from some of the um

board members. I would ask that you try to think about it in that way that we are trying to build for people other than ourselves. We have to think really hard on that as we design communities and we're trying to reach a broad segment of the population. I build for a 30-year-old single parent or 40y old single parent is different than what I build for a family of six that is still living together and has a tractor. So yeah, I appreciate that and again thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you Michael. I appreciate that. And I I'll just say you can take a seat. I'm just I'll just comment but um you don't know what's going to coales before a meeting, right? And so to say that we're prepared to address that with the specificity you'd like, which I can understand you're wanting that um is not something that can be anticipated in advance cuz I don't know where it's headed. Right. I do know I brought up my concerns with Ryan. Um so, you know, it it germinates at some point. You you get more specific if if you make a decision like we just did. Um there's got to be specificity and I can understand that. But um I also want to point out I I used the word opinion but I changed it to the word judgment. Subsequently we're exercising our sound discretion and judgment in our position as board members charged with a duty empowered by the the um ordinance to make the judgments that we just did a moment ago. So I don't want it to be seen as merely one's opinion and I want to clarify that for the record. The other thing I want to clarify the for the record, I want to do this one by one, but for those who voted, I want you to say for the record, for the purpose of the recording this meeting, did you vote on my very specific motion that cited very specific provisions of the ordinance based on your personal preference, whether it be about density or otherwise? I'll start with you, Kevin. Did you vote on personal preference?

I just voted on my belief that it wasn't in the public health and safety of the town. Okay. You don't Yeah, I appreciate that. Did you vote on personal preference? No. How about you, Amy? No. And John? No. Okay. I just want to be clear about that. In next public comment, anyone? Yes, ma'am. Can I speak again about the I said you could go backward looking on this one. Yeah. I said you could speak to issues already covered. So, go ahead. Yep. Um, I just want to clarify. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. Weston.

Oh, that's right. You're Miss Johnson. Sorry. um that the the east side buffer there are deciduous trees there but there aren't evergreen trees. And the discussion at the planning commission was um the developer should make efforts to establish a more permanent landscaping buffer with evergreens when deciduous trees have lost their leaves. So both sides and that property that's the property on the south side there will be the drive but on the east side it's just buted right up to the property of the homeowner right there and um so once those leaves fall off the trees they'll be able to see all you know there won't be any buffer. So that's why we want the city or evergreen trees on that side too.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir.

I'm Jerry Johnson. Uh 66844 Street. I do have some more concerns about that corner on 44th Street and 8th Avenue and the development going there. Uh I wasn't able to come to the planning committee meeting. Um, so I think there's what like 57 residences going in there. And with the increased traffic burden, uh, that that corner has gone through a tremendous number of accidents. And if you live on 44th Street, even though we're back in the woods up on the hill, uh, 44th Street is like a drag strip at certain times of the day. I mean, cars just are flying down that road. And, uh, it's it scares me. And I don't see any police doing that. There's no posted speed limit, so everybody thinks it's 75. And believe me, they use it. So, from a health and safety standpoint, I think there's some real concerns about safety with adding another hundred vehicles coming in out of that intersection. Um, and it's become busy enough already, but and I'm also concerned about our our property values sitting back there and what this development is going to have on our personal property. I mean, I pay enough taxes on my place and we all do up there, but um, I am concerned about property values with a development like this going in. Maybe some of you share that idea with me. So, I just want to throw that out there. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else plowing 6877 Creek Ridge Court? Uh I'm not sure Justin if you got the name last name of the gentleman from Eastbrook and his address. You might want to get that as per policy and put that in the minutes. Couple things on the Eastbrook builder. You know, my same concerns. Narrow roads, a lot of snow getting buses down there. And holy cow, 780 units. That's a lot of traffic times two cars per house. That's a lot of traffic down 36th Street. You got a middle school down there, you got a grade school down there, 36th Street is going to be one busy road. You think uh Cottonwood is busy, that one's going to be busy. Um, the other thing I wanted to talk about is the fire department that you have on the agenda tonight. Um, looks like you're hiring six people. It's going to cost the township $487,000. That's So, when you're figuring out how much it costs per person for the fire department, it's $82,000 per head. Okay? When you're doing thumbnail sketches on costs going forward, it's 82,000 that it's going to cost the taxpayer per person. That's their full wage and benefit package. Um, which means um we're gonna have a very high bill after this year. We get a deficit or we get a reduction on the AMR uh 390K this year, but next year it's going to be over a million dollar in costs for the fire department. That is 16 of Georgetown's budget. One sixth. So that means we need to be or we will be either looking for a property tax increase or we're going to be doing a millillage. And I wish you

just come up and say that's the strategy. That's what we're going to do forward. I guess that you're going to do a millage because it's been talked about in finance. And uh even our fire chief told us he wants a separate headcount for $30,000 for an assistant to do his HR. So another $30,000 on top of this. So we're going to be looking at a millillage. Probably going to do it for the August election since uh it'll be low turnout and you'll get uh the people you want for that. Um the other thing Oh, actually that's it. Oh, I want to compliment Kelly. Thank you for recusing yourself. Um weren't asked. Thank you for taking that uh personally and doing the right thing. Anyone else?

Michael Bos 3245 Golden Oak Court. Uh, it's great to be back under the big top. I'm excited. Um, but what brought me here tonight was item number 12, the banners, which was one of my goals back in 2017 after driving through Sandusky on the way to Cedar Point. saw the banners and I came back to services and said we need to do that and John was on the committee. I don't know if you remember you were on services in 2017. Anyway, I brought it up back then, didn't get the support, but I'm excited to see this happening now. I think it's fantastic idea. Um, good work. So, hopefully I see some yes votes for that tonight. Thanks. All right. Others. Right. Seeing no one else at this time, we'll close that public comment period. We'll move on to item number 10, which is our consent agenda as amended earlier. This is not 10A. Is there a motion to approve tonight's consent agenda?

Support. Moved and supported. Discussion. Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And it is carried. Item 10A. uh which is Lowing Woods uh number 15 request for approval of the layout of the preliminary plat. Is there a motion to grant that preliminary plat approval? All right. So moved. I'm moving. Support. All right. I moved Amy supported. Um would have been on the consent agenda recall but we removed it as 10A. This is the one for which it was 103 for which Amy is recused. We got do approval of Kelly. I'm sorry. Yes. Huh?

We had do approval of bills first or did was that did I miss that? We Yeah, we did the consent agenda. Yep. Yep. So 10 A which was formerly 103 is before you moved and and seconded. All in favor say I. I. I.

Any opposed? Okay. Um, item 11, love your neighbor resolution, finance committee, a motion to approve the love your neighbor resolution, which I'll gladly uh it's in your it's actually in your uh agenda. And so I won't read it. You can read it yourself just given the hour and so on. But I know we had representatives here um that would like to come forward and and uh thank you both of you and just um share briefly if you would with the with the board your heart uh both for the township and the ministry you're involved in as you did with us in finance. Thank you.

Neighbor serving this area and I just wanted to thank you. Um, one of the things that we are passionate about is not only relieving poverty but building community because most people experiencing financial poverty also experience relational poverty and so in inviting our entire community to be part of that to make room for all of the people in our community is what it takes in order to do the work that we do. So, we couldn't do it without you and without other organizations, other businesses and other churches. So, thank you for playing a part in that. And I just add it was um a joy to work with your staff as we developed that and I appreciate the way they've included local faith communities and churches in particular um to look out for their neighbors. We're grateful.

So, thank you. Thank you both. While you stand there still while anyone wishes to react uh well, when you presented to the finance committee, you're both very articulate and passionate about what you do and we sure appreciate you serving the community and being dedicated to the community and this is welld deserved. So, thank you very much.

I'll read just the last two paragraphs if I could. Now therefore, be it resolved that the Georgetown Township Board hereby expresses its support for Love Your Neighbor and encourages residents, businesses, churches, schools, and civic organizations to participate actively in its mission. And be it further resolved that the township will explore opportunities to collaborate with Love Your Neighbor to provide greater value to all residents of Georgetown and support those who are most vulnerable. So, thank you. Thank you for your mission and purpose and for pursuing it faithfully. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for sitting through the meeting. All right. Uh so there's a motion before you, correct?

Yes. I I sometimes forget we've got it. Okay. Thank you. Anyone wish to add anything more? Otherwise, this will be a roll call vote as well. Schwam, yes. Kelly, yes. Dit, yes. Yes. Beldink, yes. Kypers, yes. Grassman, yes. All in favor? All right. Thank you. Item number 12 is the veterans banners. Is there a motion to approve an application process to order and put up military banners? Jim, yes. You want to give the uh their the resolution to take a picture. Maybe take a picture. Thank you. Would you like to your dress?

Yeah. All right. In that case, if it's based on dress, Amy ought to do it. All right. One, two, three, cheese. There we go. Did you want with your phone, too, or? Yeah, that's great. I I got it. I can text them to you. That's yours, Jim. Yep. There we go. Look really good. Jim's got Jim's got them all hanging on his takes them all home. All right. Thank you. Item 12, Veterans Banners. Is there a motion to approve? So move. Support.

All right. Anybody wish to talk about it briefly? I do. All right.

Um I wondered I mean I love the idea. The banners look fabulous. Um, but could we partner with Meyer on this? Um, you know, maybe even hang them at Meyer, also hang them here for a month, hang them at Meyer. Um, and maybe their printing team could even do them because they print so many banners. Maybe they could even help with that or, you know, do the cost of the printing. Just just throwing it out there. I don't know who's if anybody has talked to a partner at all with this because I would think that they're very, you know, philanthropy, you know, minded and thought then it would save the township some money if we even just inquired.

Amy, I love that concept and I think we ought to be thinking of possible partners and maybe even individuals that might want to put money towards it. Yes. Um, and the reason I say that is in my dad's uh senior complex in Florida, they got donations and they got some partners and put in a veterans, you know, did some things for their veterans at their community and they got all donations so that the residents did not have to pay for it. Wow. I'm just just throwing it out there. I like the idea. if you wanted after we set things in motion if you'd like to do something along those lines, maybe you and I can go to help do that.

This is definitely a pilot program. We kind of got it started because of the 250th um you know birthday that our country is having here next year and along with that with the historical site we kind of come up with this. So, there's a lot that can be done and and grow on this or whatever, but this um Andy that Andy's grandpa or something

that picture is. And so, we we wanted to get a sample and we wanted to get kind of get things rolling. Um and even the application fee cuz we got it set up for 24 in here, but there's possibility we could get, you know, 100 people that would like to get there. So, it's going to, you know, it's going to be a process we're going to have to work through. Um, but to get other people involved, sure. But then I think we're almost going to have to probably work on getting a maybe a side committee set up or something to keep this moving forward. Mhm. Oh, yeah.

The the idea was to put them up at the library outside the library. Uh but as winter comes in and things change um we're wide open to many many ideas on how to pursue this and we hope it'll really take off. Uh, I'd love to see them going up and down the roads, but the cost involved in doing that and the maintenance, right, is is uh formidable, but we'd like to start at least with like our library, right? And I think we can expand beyond that, but I never never even occurred doing something with Meyer, but I love the idea.

Yeah, because they have a huge printing department or they job all of their banners and everything out or whatever. probably go with this one firm right now, but as time goes on, but yeah, I just thought, hey, I'm not opposed to making a sales call. Done it a lot in my past. So, yeah, I'll I'll be the Grinch because when you say stuff like that, I'm like, what's this going to morph into it? Everything always sounds good until it becomes annual. You know what I mean? So, this isn't this isn't a one-time deal.

No. So, like another board beyond us is going to say, "How in the world are we spending $40,000 on banners and it'll be like,"Well, another board got this thing started and now you can't shut it down." I'm just pointing I'm just trying to be the guy to point it out and say that's what happens with this stuff. It always ends up going down the line and then the next guy's going, "Man, this was a great idea." When it comes, you can be proud of it for the four years that you've been here and let them worry about it when they're out. Yeah, that's that's forward thinking, but to I forward I forward think a different way.

Participate in the banner program. they've come up with a $100 and so they help pay for the banner and then if they'd like to keep the banner after it's it's lived its life then they could take it. Uh we're hoping to get people to donate to this above and beyond and I think there would be individuals interested in that that uh and also we thought they would be like with our bricks they become very popular for people to give at Christmas time or around Veterans Day. So how will we market?

Hope was to to get it started where people would see it and go that is incredible. what can we do to honor our our our brother, our father, our grandfather. And um it's a touching banner, but they would have to someone has to help with the initial purchase, but this vote tonight is is strictly talking about this next year for the 250th anniversary of the country, right? And we also I believe there was a grant that was entered concerning this. Mr. Rur applied for a grant to help offset the cost on this. So, okay,

we submitted it, but we also have to get there's a lag time to one advertise this, get people to submit pictures, information, and then build the banders and then get them up before Memorial Day. So, um I know it's only 5 months away, but production, everything else, there's lead time. So yeah, I I would think this type of thing would be very Grantw worthy and that we would stand a good chance. But if not, you know what I tell my gods John between thinking and knowing? Well, I have enough people that tell me I think, but I need to know. Yeah.

I'm I'm just I'm just, you know, I'm not saying it's a bad act. I'm just saying is this something that we start and then next year you come and you go yeah we had a lot of a lot of people that want to get this thing and now it's going to be $20,000 and once you get started they're like well you did it for so and so why aren't you doing it for this I I just look at things a lot differently can we always adjust the fee like they're they pay $100 to do it maybe that's for this year next year it's $200 I don't know I don't know donation I I don't think we presuppose there's going to be a next year. We're voting on

this next year. We're voting on the 250th anniversary. That that seems to be worthy. I don't know that you will decide that every year thereafter. You want them flying out here for all the way from Memorial Day to Veterans Day. I think there's other things you probably advertise. Could be the American flag. It could be something GT related. Could be something library related. It could be any number of things. But for this next year, that's a real focus when you consider our freedom at 250 years. So, let's think about that year. Okay. Yes. All right. Yeah, that's good. Yes. All right. There's a motion. All in favor say I. I. I.

Any opposed? It's carried. Number 13, water and sewer connection rate resolution out of the utilities committee looking at raising some connection cost. Um, I don't know if Gary or Justin wishes to elaborate. I know you've provided some good background information on this. So yeah, ready to vote. I'm I'm good with that, too. Yeah.

So the just raising connection fees for residential commercial because we need to take in more money to repair more pipes basically. That's where the money goes. Time to raise them. Again, I might add uh in terms of where we stand with that, we're we were on the lower end, which is always what we say. We're now kind of moving into more of the mix if you will. Granville I know just raised theirs. I know another point to be made perhaps with this and correct me if I'm wrong Gary but a lot of those being de sites being developed on the blended side of things at 48

are going to pay these and that hits you guys like you I get it but that they're going to be contributing more and we're getting less connection fees because we're not building as many homes but yet the bills keep coming just to be clear for the record here too. This has nothing to do with water rates to our residents. No, I don't want to get confused with anybody. Yes. No. Correct. Anything further? All right. This a resolution. So, our clerk would call the role. Wearing. Yes. Kypery, yes. Grassman, yes. Det. Yes. Belink. Yes. Schwam, yes. Kelly,

yes. All those in favor? All right. Item 14, yet another resolution here. This is to is the issuance authorize the issuance of refunding bonds to get some money back. So, uh, Justin, briefly,

I can give a quick summary. So, Ottaw County Public Utilities issues bonds on our behalf. When they issued the bonds, um, at one interest rate, interest rates are going down. And since we use two billion gallons of water a year, uh, we could save approximately about $40,000. So other communities, smaller communities, they don't have feel the impact as much, but we do. So this in their best interest, and it saves township uh water utility rate users money. So any further comments? Saving money. All right. All in uh actually roll call. Yep. Grassman, yes. Plum, yes. Kelly, yes. Pipers, yes. Wearing, yes.

Felding, yes. Dit. Yes. All in favor? You. Item 15, 2025 budget amendments. Is there a motion to approve the proposed 2025 budget amendments? Some move. Support. Right. Any conversation? I know that you've each received a summary and reviewed those. understand a lot of that is related to the fire department and and our decision as it related to the county's withdrawal of uh paramedics. Uh one item um we have to amend the 2025 budget amendments. A few I found a few more departments that are a little u getting close to the budget amount. So it' be amendment to the motion.

Okay. Y

so I I can kind of walk us through in 2025 we've had a large number of grave openings more than we projected and our senior center class fees that are patrons that visit our senior center are paying for fees and it's higher than uh budgeted. So offsetting the cost for the senior center and the cemetery um we basically the revenue for expenditures and they balance out. Um, we're getting close in our assessing and crossing guard and probably the biggest one I see Joe Bush over here. Uh, we have our drains uh that came in higher as we adopted a few more. One lilac drain and we had some other drain maintenance items that came up uh for 2025 that the township participated in and um Robchock had a low number for drain maintenance. In the future, we're going to have a higher number which has been approved on. And for this um motion or this item, it's we're looking at a higher um board or motion for amendments.

So, to your uh comment a moment ago, it's not so much that we need to amend our motion as we need to be aware that the spreadsheet that was sent out originally to us was modified as you just pointed out. It's still a budget amendment just pursuant to this spreadsheet right here. Correct. Yes. Okay. With that understanding, any comments? Do you need a motion for the amendment? I do need a motion for the amendment, too. That's I'm suggesting are we really we're we're a not really amending. You're adding this to Yeah, cuz it was one item was approved at finance and this item would have to be Oh. additional items approved. So, you'd like a motion? Yeah,

we we have a motion. We have amendment to the motion. I move that we add the amendment to the motion. There we go. Support. There we go. All in favor say I. I. I. I. All right. Pass. Now uh to vote on the amended motion. All right. We've had the amendment to the motion. Now to vote on the overall amended motion. Now any further comment hearing none. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Passed. And somewhat hand in hand with that, item 16, 2026 budget amendments. Is there a motion to approve of those budget amendments as presented? Support.

Okay. Moved and supported comments. I think we've had you've had all your questions answered and looked into it.

I think is this the one where we're talking about hiring? Um, I would like to make sure if possible that that hiring that we do does have the maybe the human resources requirements that would help us in the long run all the way down if we do decide to go from maybe part-time now to full-time later. Um, I think it'll help us with a lot of our policy books that if we get somebody that's in HR that knows uh how to write some of these policies, help with hiring and firing. Um, the list goes on and on. But I think at least if we can, I'd like to see if we can have uh you have a phr uh degree or whatever or HR.

Well, I think that budget amendment is it's not a mandate to spend it. It's just just in case, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. probably talked about using it for 60% of the fire and that kind of thing when so sounds like it will be used but it likely will and to your point you're saying you want a higher level of qualification although you can't necessarily define what that is what sort of certification that they get or human resources what's that I most human resources people do have a P phr certification or or document certification Yeah, you're nodding your head yet, Kelly. Yeah. And some experience in HR. I think

I think if we're making these moves to improve, you know, this the repertoire of of our personnel as a whole, I think it's important um we make sure that we bring in people who are going to continue to always level us up. Okay.

And I think if Justin's sitting over there thinking, okay, what if I don't find someone qualified? I guess you could always come back and say, can we drop that requirement? because finding somebody to do it part-time may be a challenge, maybe not. Maybe say they'd say that's perfect. I don't want to be full-time. So, um, all right, good, good points, both of you. So, you would say as part of this, it's it's really I mean, it's really separate from this in a sense. It's it's looking ahead to and and as the person who's charged and authorized to make that hiring, I don't know that we need to make a formal motion about how he hires or what criteria he uses. Is it enough that the board gives you that admonition? What's that? That's perfect. We'll get it done. Yeah. So, we would like that qualification.

Yeah, definitely. Is that satisfactory? You each of you? Mhm. Kelly? Sure. That All right. Um All right. So, back then to the the motion itself. Any comments? Any further comments? Okay. Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. Opposed. Passes.

17. banking resolution. Um, this is to switch to West Michigan Community Bank. As many of you know, we were using I want to say Makatawa and then they were bought by Wind Trust, which is out of Chicago. And we're looking to reenter ourselves uh so long as we get as good a rate with a local bank. So, we looked at various local banks. Mhm. This is one that was willing to to uh to make a really solid pitch toward us. I think we've got representatives here tonight. I appreciate that you came to finance as well. Uh you don't have to present and uh and yet you're welcome to make comments. Did you want to run through something? Yeah. He has a few slides.

Yeah, please. You just want to click through there if you want. Yeah. Introduce yourself. Thank you for having me. My name is Matt Hookma. And where are you from, Matt? I'm the president and CEO at West Michigan Community Bank. Okay. I live in Park Township out in Ottawa County, but again, I I'm here representative of West Michigan Community Bank. And thank you for the opportunity to do business with you. I'd say I've been in banking for 30 years. I've gotten a lot of jokes over my career about banker's hours. So, I just want everybody to know a picture. Open at 9.

A banker's hours joke. No, I I don't have that. But uh you know the main thing I want I want to just tell you a little bit about our bank and we are um banking is something that's near and dear to my soul. I was an employee of Matel Bank for 21 years. Um now at West Michigan banking I believe in our communities. I believe in West Michigan and I believe in community banking. And what does that mean? Means our people is our brand. I'll have Andrew stand up. Andrew Brown's our VP of treasury management and Katie Putnham's our branch manager here in Jennison and uh West Michigan Community Banks a name our people are our brand and I'm here as a representative of Katie and Andrew who I think do fantastic work. Uh we're a fivestar bower rated uh institution um that speaks to the financial health of our organization that's an independent agency that looks at banks says that uh we're making good loans. We are profitable, interest margin steady. We're a secure holder of the township. We're $1.12 billion in assets. So, uh, we've got some size and some scope, which gives us sophistication to provide a township like yours with the products and services you need that a lot of times smaller banks don't have and can't provide. Um, our goal is to be the premier banking franchise in West Michigan. Um, and again like West Michigan, we're a valuesdriven company. Um, values look good when you walk into companies and they're on the wall, right? Um, and talking to Andrew and Katie on the way in. I think what makes us different and the reason I believe in Michigan is we walk the talk, right? Um, you have that in Georgetown that have you had that in your businesses and we believe in people first. We put relationships at the center when our customers thrive. So,

we're locally committed, meaning our employees all live here in West Michigan. We give and we donate in West Michigan, and we make loan and deposit decisions here in West Michigan. Integrity always. We earn our stakeholders trust by leading with transparency, honesty, and professionalism. And finally, excellence and action. Bring deep experience, service, and smart solutions to every interaction. And what makes us different? Um, again back back to the values and our people. Um, our core beliefs are local decision making, seamless access to leadership team. I want you to have that relationship again. Walking the talk relationships matter personal service from a dedicated Andrew and that's Katie. fast response time. You can expect uh instant or same day responses from anybody on our team. That includes myself, strong treasury management and fraud prevention tools. Um that's super important. We are fiduciaries for your deposits and for your money. So in addition to providing you that competitive interest rate, we need to have the services provided in the fraud prevention so that you can protect your township residents. And finally, transparency and honesty. Um, I'm here to speak to you. Thank you for the opportunity to do business with you. I know questions you may have on the proposal. Thanks again for your time.

I have a question real quick. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Okay. You open the door. Um, you're local. Would you be willing to make a donation to our veteran banners? Don't stop. Come on. I mean, he said he gets back to you right away. And wow on the right specific question clear this is in no way contingent on our vote that is priceless. I couldn't help myself. Have we voted yet?

But but no you can absolutely comment on us and again back to those values and walking talk. we we get here. We decided here we'll ask you.

Thank you so much. Andrew and Katie were incredible with the finance uh committee and we asked a lot of very tough questions and uh both very articulate, knowledgeable and we just we felt comfortable and uh there was a a acquisition of our present bank and so this gives us an opportunity to focus the funds more locally and then he explained Andrew explained in detail how that would happen and uh we we just all felt comfortable and seems to be very strong integrity that you're but they represented you very very well

and Katie has a passion for the community. I think you live in the Hamilton area but I have lots of time here. I know she's so she's been here a lot. So good solid people and they have a great working relationship with Justin and Andrew. So I'm fortunate to have both of these on. Absolutely. I'm humbled. That's why you're in charge. So, thanks for waiting two hours. Andrew and Katie importantly point out that we we got a special rate given the size of the deposit that is made um and matched the highest we could find and so we're not sacrificing any way just so you know board in terms of return

and then importantly to us as well and I just would seek your confirmation again here in this meeting that we would be able to have you diversify as the previous bank did our funds among this collage of banks I guess or however that works to where you can get under the FDI IC limit at each one so your your funds are fully protected. Absolutely true. We we use a product called the inrify network. Yeah. And essentially that shares your deposits invisible to you. It ultimately provides full FDIC coverage for the amount of your total deposit. Yeah. Great. Wonderful. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

Make sure to let Karen Cruz know that we are there because she's worked me over for years. Aaron's wonderful. I know she is. I'm in that I'm in your branch a lot in Hudsonville. So, all right. Well, thank you very much. We still have to make a motion here. So, there a motion then to approve the um the uh selection of West Michigan Community Bank as our new bank that we will contract. Okay, you've been supported. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed. It's passed and we're glad to uh contract with you and do business. Thanks for coming. Ke

thank you. Appreciate it. And you are welcome to leave or stay. Don't we don't consider it rude. So yeah. Yeah. Anchor's ours. Item 18, committee appointments here. As we approach a new calendar year, um is there a motion to approve of the uh committee appointments as presented to you through the agenda? Part. All right. Does the one get changed, Justin? Yes, there is. We're fortunate that a lot of people who reach the end of their term want to reup uh which we really appreciate because we've had some really solid people that have served for a long time. Um, Jean, you're new to Genesis Historical then, right? Yes.

Appreciate you doing that. And then Goris, who I don't know is here tonight, doesn't have to be, but um for our planning commission, there's one opening. And Goris Pashier, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly, would be appointed uh to serve attorney. He's a 60 plus year resident here locally and former small business owner and the like and seems to bring a lot of um passion for the township and and just good understanding and background uh to that position. So that's my pitch. Questions concerns I have kept each of us on the committees we are at least for the next year. We have had instances in the past where two years in there might be a switch. Um I'm not necessarily opposed to that in a year, but it seems like at least for this next year we ought to be staying with the committees where we are.

All right. Not hearing any discussion then. All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Opposed. All right. It's uh six to one. Item number 19, Globe Life Insurance. And Justin, you presented us with good background on that and I know you did it in finance as well. I don't know if you wish to sum up briefly or just

We have members here. They can answer any questions, but um it's a no cost to the township. Um basically, if members like the fire department or any department wants to get life insurance, they could do it through Globe Life. And um I guess want ladies want to fill in anything at the podium?

Be great if you spoke. Thanks for having us. Um Deborah Nelson, this is Jordan Frier. Uh we're here representative Globe Life Liberty Nationals work site division. Um so ultimately we're here sharing the opportunity um to provide some much needed benefits to your employees at no cost to the township. Um that's not going to replace anything that you do offer. Uh we just have ways that we can supplement in regards to that as well.

Yeah. Um something I wanted to add was of course thank you guys for having us tonight. Um, we're super excited to get the invite for that. Um, but our company, Globe Life, uh, the family of companies, I'm not sure if you guys had a chance to check out our work site information. Um, our division has actually been around for 125 years. Um, so we are a nationwide company. However, here in the state of Michigan, we do work very locally. Our office is actually right near the Woodland Mall. So, um, we service the entire state of Michigan out of our Grand Rapids office as well as a site that we have now in Troy. So, um, we are the faces that, you know, your employees see that service them, um, rather than, you know, a 1-800 number. Um, we really take a lot of pride in that. Um, because we do know that that's a big difference maker in making sure that people feel cared for and, you know, uh, basically what we're what we're offering them is ultimately what happens for them as far as, you know, especially talking about insurance, you know, we're dealing with really sensitive um, things, some of the hardest things that people are going to experience in their lifetime. um you know whether that be a death of a loved one um a a cancer diagnosis um you know we do supplemental health uh policies as well. So um like Deborah mentioned though our our biggest focus is um not replacing anything your employees already have. Um but just having that personal approach just to make sure that we can answer questions, fill any gaps and um allow them to protect their families. So um the goal there is as well benefits township is going to see some savings as well. So of course

uh not or you know saving money. So um while it's no cost to you our goal is going to be to you know show you guys that your employees will participate in those benefits and um help you guys savings. So um do you guys have any questions for us that we Well said. That's easy. did a great job in committee. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming and sitting through the meeting. Yes. And speaking sponsor, but I better not. All right. All right. You guys heard that.

Enough. Are we just in discussion? We don't have a motion yet. Yep. We don't have a Let's put it before us then. Someone wish to motion to approve. Yes. So move support right. Go ahead, Jean.

Um I was the one that voted against it at the finance meeting and and part of it was answered in the packet that we had that so I could feel better about it is um supporting just one particular you know like putting our behind our name behind one insurance company. There's a lot of insurance companies out there, but in the packet it did say providers may request their additional providers may be request and approved of the future. So that means you know there can be other companies or whatever can come to us or whatever instead of just putting it behind one. So that made me feel a little bit better. And the only other thing I don't know if we had brought up at finance or not is how is this is this going to be a a little bit of cost to us as far as a payroll deduction or are they going to pay it strictly out of their pockets to them? Because if it gets to be a payroll deduction then it's does cost us a little bit because we've got

a $30,000 HR person that's going to be doing it probably or something. So we we talked about this uh earlier and because the paid on call is fluctuates with their pay, I felt more comfortable that if an employee like a paid on call firefighter signed up that they handled the payments with Globe Life and not through our payroll. All right. Then it is definitely a no cost. So right, you can get anything.

Yeah. So for the full-time employees, they do participate, we will go through payroll deductions. So we do make that process very simple and easy with that payroll administrator. Um but for those individuals that may not have you know the pay it on call we do have the ability of um going to permanent like or not permanent but to bank draft. So all of our policies are permanent and portable in the event that they are no longer here. So we do already have that obligation or that opportunity right from the get-go. Okay. Thank you. What are you rated like a++? What's the Yeah. Well, oh yeah, of course.

Hey, bless. Um, but first in our category, State Farm is the company and it was a number one and they don't know what we do. So, I see. Okay, good. Anyone else? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. Those opposed? That carries. Uh item 26, time policy. This is directly uh impacted by recent state law that we need to amend our sick time policy. So is there a motion to approve the updated language?

I will make a motion to approve the updated language. Support updated and supported. I think drafted through legal counsel if I'm not mistaken. Y it's a thicket with these new rules.

Yeah. So last year we had to get through ESTA that was a requirement by February. Um some policy changes at the state level. This is a benefit that we were able to give to to employees before and gives an incentive for employees not to call in sick and um I would like to reinstitute this and I think it's a benefit to our our employees and it it maintains what they had previously. It is what it is, huh? Yep. And it's mandated through the state. We don't have any flexibility, but this would help us. Yes.

As far as the our employees going, well, there is some bonus for me if I don't. Right. Correct. Yeah. Right now, as a person's in their career, there's really no incentive for them not to use it to use sick time. So this gives an incentive not because of a paycheck but also just to be participate and be a part of the team. So I I I feel like this is a great policy that Dan put together and I like to continue incentivizes people to show up. Right. Right. I mean that's are our people do normally but this gives one more reason to Right. One more reason.

Yep. I know they're faithful. Okay. Anybody else? All in favor say I. I I passed. Okay. Item 21, overtime and compensatory time. Is there a motion to approve policy manual additions regarding these matters? I will make a motion to approve these matters. Moved by Amy, support by John. Again, if you wish, you can delve into it if you like. I know that you've presented us with background information.

Yep. So I have a motion and then I have amendment to the motion that I'll ask for too. Um talking with employees after the finance meeting, there was a gap basically of emergencies that involved uh snow plowing uh water sewer emergencies and uh structure fires and we need to have employees that are ready and able as we run a lean ship that we do here in Georgetown Township. I need to call on people and I need to have people show up to do um emergencies when emergencies happen. So I request that the the overtime and and comp time policy we have the motion and the amendment to the motion too.

All right. Well, why don't we attend to that here a moment? Uh there need to be a motion to amend the motion that's on the floor. Comments would be restricted just to the amendment itself. Is there a motion to amend the present motion? Some move support. Okay. Any comments on that amendment to the initial motion? I'm confused. He had to make some exceptions, but it'll be at his

Well, there's there's two different policies. So, there's one that came out of finance and then talking with employees, I requested that there be amendment to the motion that came out of uh finance. So, Chelsea, if you can click on the second one. Thank you. So if you can zoom in on that. So basically the first part of I 4.6 I uh was what came out of finance. What was in yellow is the requested um amendment that I'm requesting for the overtime policy. So I have the ability to basically give people overtime if they already called in sick or they had a vacation day earlier on the week. the issue comes in like um for this week example when we had eight eight inches of heavy snow um employees didn't know that the snow was going to come on Saturday. So if they had a doctor's appointment and took an afternoon off on Monday of the prior week um they would be penalized by taking going to that doctor's appointment um earlier on Monday. So, this would allow me to say, "Hey, even though you took a doctor's appointment on Monday, it's snow. It's snowing on Saturday, you would get overtime on that Saturday."

Sounds logical. Yes. In fair, right? I like Is that going to Yeah. Yeah. What's that? Is that going I like this better than the first one. What's that? I'm sorry. I like this amended motion better than the first one. The first one's a little bit ambiguous. This is much more distinctive. I like this one better. Y

and then part J uh for dual train employees, it go to the 30 minute increment. Currently in our policy book, it goes to 15minute increment. So if you're, for example, uh, DPW workers, if they're working and they have to stay late for some reason, there's a force man on borrow that's blowing all over, they're cleaning it up, it would go to a 15minute increment. Um, for the fire department, it would go to a 30 minute increment with no minimum time set applied to fire calls. So um, I guess the board can decide to go to a 15minute increment. I would advise against that. I would go to at least a 30 minute increment.

Had it been an hour? So when ESA we merged with the advice and direction from our attorney, we kind of blended the rules of paid on call and full-time and um it was really I guess pushing our overtime higher than it should have been. So this would um I guess clean it up. I still believe it's fair and equitable to our employees. Um, but there is a distinction between full-time and paid on call.

Will you be creating a subsequent internal SOP that defines this a bit better? Because I still think it's relatively ambiguous. The example you gave where somebody has a doctor's appointment and takes a half a day or something is

very different and reasonable I think for receiving overtime on a Saturday than if somebody was you know took 3 days of vacation time. Do they still get overtime on the Saturday for that? And how are employees to know when they may or may not get overtime on a Saturday? because I do think there is some incentivization that can be inferred with this. So if somebody says like, well, if I already took three three days of vacation time and they're not going to give me the overtime, I'm not going to call in, but it's okay if I only took a little bit of time for a doctor's appointment. I think it it still leaves uh a a lot up to the individual to decide what they think you're going to do. And I don't know that I love that piece of it. So I don't I'm I'm okay with a external policy being written where it speaks to your discretion,

but I do think there should be some guidelines so that when person A you decide to give overtime to on a Saturday and person B you don't. Right, it's fair and consistent every single time.

100%. So I had our attorney review this and he he actually drafted this language. So he said as long as you employ to deploy do it equitably from that and department, we'd have no problems. But I I do see your concerns. Are you still I mean along with what Kelly said, are you still doing then if a guy takes one or two days off the beginning of the week he's on call that week or later that weekend or something he gets a somewhere he's got to come back to fix a sewer or under this policy

automatic foreign they don't they get an automatic four and a half hours no matter what they do if it's a 15minute thing or a hour thing there the DPW has uh different clauses for on all that's I guess unrelated to this. Okay. Um so really this applies to for the most well it applies to every other department. So really the only other departments that are would get overtime would be township employees during election um parks and cemetery and fire. And some of it we can plan and some of it we can't. So,

I think this tightens it up, makes it more professional, and before was very ambiguous, and I think you need to be involved, and we don't have to micromanage you. Yep. Agreed. Anyone else? Okay. So, there was a motion to amend the original motion that's on the table right now. Yep. So, all in favor of amending the original motion say I. I. Any opposed? Opposed.

All right. 61. And then now there can be further discussion or we can go right to a vote on the amended verbiage now of what we'd be passing here for this overtime and compensatory time. Hear nothing further. All in favor say I. I. Those opposed? Opposed. All right. Carries. Item number 22. Is there a motion to add to the township benefits manual gym membership benefits available to all fire department employees? I was going to say as currently practice but not in policy form.

I make the motion. Okay. There's a motion there. Approval of the motion. I'll support it. supported is before you. So I know the current practice is that they have an aotted amount for gym membership um as seen uh to be uh in line with the requirements of their job to be fit and prepared. Um I guess when finance discussed this there were a couple of clarifications that made one of which was that this would not be during work hours. The second of which is there would be some accountability in terms of the frequency of um of its use. That is that in fact they're doing what they're what the point of it is right to staying in shape and staying fit for their job. Um, anyone else wish to add

How about if we have Matt come up here and just to to address it because he was enlightening when he spoke to our our finance committee and u also talked about uh they might modify it next year. He had some ideas on doing that.

Hey, Matt Dwit, Georgetown Fire Chief. Yeah, we talked about this in finance. We think it's a very important benefit. We started this with um former manager. Um we feel firefighter fitness is very important. A lot of the deaths in the fire service are related to health reasons, strokes, heart attacks, that kind of thing. they're not related to being injur injured inside of a fire anymore. There's been a big shift. So, with that and preventative medicine, um there's a lot big shift in the industry to how can we take care of injuries before they occur. Um that's according to your insurance company. It's it's everywhere right now, right? You can go to your insurance company, they'll give you a discount if you get this shot or you do this or do that. Um so, we were looking at that. Plus, we were looking at the industry standards. OSHA's also looking at drafting language which would require fire brigades to be required to have a fitness program. So looking at that plus um the national numbers as far as injuries and fatalities and what we can do to prevent that. We feel like having a fitness program is very important. So that started the discussion what can we do for our firefighters. So gym memberships came up because we don't have the equipment. We don't have a location or facility in our stations. A lot of full-time departments have that and offer that to their guys to either work out on duty or after duty. Um, and we don't have a facility for that. So, the gym memberships were the obvious choice and uh, yeah, we went forward with it last year, budgeted it this past year and uh, want to just continue that for this coming year. Um,

Matt, how many are participating right now and about what is it costing us right now? We have 25 members and it's costing us about $10,000 $11,000. We pay a monthly fee. We allow them to pick the gym of choice according to where they live that they're close to their residence and that gives them more incentive to to go. Makes it more convenient, more easy for them since we don't have a location just to go into the fire station and work out. And they're not doing this on our time.

Not doing our work time. Doing it on their own. We require six times a month that they're required to go. Um, so yeah, we we keep up on that. It is a check that we do monthly. We get the information right from the gym and they send us a report and then we can look at the report and make sure they're making their their quota. They don't make their quota, then they're looked to be dropped from the program. I think it's very important to have the accountability. Thank you. Yep.

Appreciate it. I I think there was um a typo in what we received and it said $35 up to 35 and I think it was intended to be 40 when we discussed it. Snap fitness I know is 38.50 uh which is kind of one of the common places they go. So I just want to clarify that when you agree with this motion or disagree we're talking 40 bucks. Everybody's clear. All right. Well, when I did the math, I did it at $37 times 62 people if everyone were to sign up that and that's on the low side. $2,300 times 12 months would be $28,000 uh for that. I personally am a member at two or at two gyms, tennis clubs, and I pay for that. Um, so I'm kind of thinking that especially firemen should want to be fit and should everybody should do it on their own or if they don't want to afford a gym membership, let's do a fireman's running group or something like that or go out and run. I just think that that's a lot of money. So we're probably $35,000 a year if everybody were to do it. I don't know if the township should be paying for that. Just a concern.

So, I'm just throwing it out there. Oh, fair enough. So, I'm trying trying to read through. If I look at that, it looks like we're just doing benefits for the fire department. That's it. No, it's for everybody. It is for everybody. No, it's for the fire. Oh, okay. I thought it was for everybody. But if you read this, if you read the benefit manual edition, it doesn't say fire department. It says Georgetown to subject to all qualifying employees. See, that's what I thought. There's a blank that isn't filled in.

And the reason the reason I bring this up is, you know, we're we're making a big change. We're going to have a full-time fire department. And there's a lot of changes coming to the township. And I think we need to start looking at identifying the jobs in the township. You're a Georgetown township employee that fixes water and sewer. You're a Georgetown Township employee that digs graves. You're a Georgetown Township employee who fights fires. I I I I get um a little nervous about this distinction. And there's the Georgetown Township employees and then there's a Georgetown Township fire department. No, you're a Georgetown Township employee that fights fires. I And and if you read this this employee gym membership, that's for all the employees. Doesn't say anything about fire department. That whole paragraph.

That's what I thought too. That's what I'm looking at. It's the very last sentence that's undefined. Yeah. Very last sentence which is undefined. Mhm. is what narrows the scope. Yeah. And you would you would say I don't I don't like the narrowness of it, but it's it would fall in that last sentence. Yeah. Township employees. I mean, we did talk to in finance and that was a meeting that I had stepped in. I think Jim, you were gone about why wouldn't we offer this to everybody in the township regardless of what department they work for because I guess was good for the goose is good for the gander. I mean, if it's an employee handbook or employee benefit, is it is it a benefit for everybody or as you're mentioning, just the fire department? Yeah.

Because I'm sure there's some people in the office that would say, "Hey, I' I'd go if the towns are paid for it or the guys that are digging the graves or working in the parks, cutting the grass." Well, what's being said is we're doing this for health and human, right? Human health reasons. Well, I want everybody in the township employees to be healthy. Exactly. If that's what it's for. But in saying that, Gary, are you making the further point of And if that's the case, I don't want to pay for all employees. We should not pass anything. Is that Or are you Okay. I wouldn't I won't vote for this if we're not going to look at all the employees. Mhm.

I don't think it's fair that we single out one department. They're Georgetown Township employees that fight fires. My DPW guys are lugging pipes and other things around too, which are just his thing. I mean, that's that's my point. Mhm. I think

I sort of I likened it to a professional development allowance, if you will. So, you know, like Jean going to a treasures conference would be the same as furthering his knowledge and abilities and his scope of work. Whereas in the fire department, I think that being physically fit falls very specifically under professional development for a firefighter as opposed to um the assessor. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that's the other camp I think of looking at it is that it's spec I think it's very I think it is and it can be narrowly tailored to uh a firefighter's professional development more specifically than every employee.

I I would assume that you probably ask our gals here from Global Life that if they see people who work out on a regular basis they probably have less injuries than those that don't. And whether it's in fire department or public works or parks or whatever it might be, I mean, it's it's all about bettering the employees of the township regardless of who and where they work for. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think if we're going to go down that path of every single employee gets a gym membership, then I sort of fall under what Amy said originally of is it really though the taxpayers dollars that should be keeping people healthy when that just should be to me a personal choice,

standard. It should just be a standard fact of life. I choose to pay for a gym membership. I bought a Pelaton. It's quite expensive. I pay the monthly fee and my alarm goes off at 5:15 every morning. Nobody pays me. I do it because it's good for me and it's not my problem if nobody else feels that same way. If you want to not wake up and work out and you want to eat like junk, be my guest. If I heard the beginning part of your statement though, are you saying you would support it if it were nearly tailored to the fire department? I think if we're talking about spending township dollars on something that's a little bit arbitrary or sort of borderline in terms of if it's appropriate, I think it should be as narrowly tailored as possible.

This was a benefit that the fire department was already receiving. Do we take it away? Uh they have to work out six times a month or they lose the benefit. And the major part of their job often is very physical. Do we take that away? But yet we have only a third of the guys using it. Yes.

And they should want to be. But didn't the fire chief at that finance meeting, I don't know if he talked to Justin a little bit more about that, have an idea for next year on how this could get paid for that would make it more onto the person than Do you have That's what I was kind of hoping Matt would refer to is that you did have another suggestion that you said you'd possibly implement next year. talk about that or would put more of the own go any further. Yeah. I guess remind me. Yeah, you can describe it.

So, one of the other options was to have the employees pay the fee upfront and then we keep them accountable on the back end at the end of the year. Then they reimburse for every month that they completed six times. So it would be everything on them, their dime, uh their financing, their jo gym of of pick and then for every month that they complete it, we would audit in December and then reimburse that month. So if they were to step away on vacation and they missed three months, they're not going to get that. That was another option that we kind of briefly discussed, right? But okay, right now we're just trying to decide whether or not we're adding this in the employee handbook. Is that correct?

Correct. You're you're you're voting on the motion that got pushed from finance to this. It is the the board can send it back to finance for review and clarification or any updates that Matt just described. Y I I thought the concern was that it already started and so that's what made it difficult because that was a an incentive was to make the change right then, right? But since they're under that policy right now that they have gym membership that was

it's not it's not added to our benefits manual. Any benefit I give I have to give it I have to give it to everyone or it can be specified in our benefits manual for a certain department. Just like Kelly said earlier, I it's very it's a very slippery slope to arbitrarily give benefits to one group of people or one person. And that's what we have right now and that's what we have to clean up. Could we send it back and do the modification that was just mentioned by Matt? It's up to the board. I I thought we couldn't and that's why we didn't send it to to us that way. It could be tabled and the finance can reconvene on it. I'd like to make a motion that we table it, send it back to finance.

Supported. Further discussion on the motion then to table. Does seem like it's a split board on this issue. Thank you, Gary. Mhm. Okay. Hearing no further comment. All in favor say I. I. I. Opposed. Oh. Okay. So, six to one, it's sent back to finance to look at it further. Thank you. Thank you.

Uh, second public comment period at this time. So, if anyone wishes to step forward and address the board, you may do so at this time. You have three minutes. identify your name and your address and you may speak to any issue whether it was on the agenda this evening or not. People in Georgetown pre or um 6877 Creek Ridge Court um on the gym memberships I mean as it relates to the fire department we're already pulling $96,000 out of our rainy day fund to float the dollars for this year.

Yeah. I mean, and now is the 122,000 or $28,000 for the um gym membership also going to come out of the rainy day fund as well? Consider that. I think the better move instead of using rainy day funds should have been amendment to the amendment where we allocate pickle ball court money towards the fire department instead of using rainy day funds for that. That would have been been a better management decision. The the main point that I wanted to talk about is accountability. Um, you did a bid last board meeting for deans escavating. I didn't quite understand why we only had one bid. Um, we have a policy to get three bids over 20K. We didn't do that. We uh Gary told us why we didn't need three bids. Is that the way we do it every time? And it's not just a one-off because we did a single vendor bid when we did the BPW office furniture with interphase office systems for 125,000. Single vendor didn't look at another one. Okay. I'm a little concerned that you're not following through on the policies that govern our government, the rules, the laws that we use to govern ourselves. You're not following them. I hope you would do that. Gan Dit was on the uh was an employee of Georgetown. He ran for treasure. He was supposed to take a leave of absence without pay. Did not take a leave by absence without pay. Nothing was done. The just looking the other way and not doing anything is constantly happening quite a bit. And that raises a lot of questions about integrity. So if you don't want people calling you out for integrity type issues, just like when Gan and Matt were on the fire

department together, we have a nepotism rule. Nothing was done. Multiple letters, multiple comments, nothing was ever done. So I'm hoping that you will read the policy manual and follow it. Otherwise, people will be talking about your integrity and not following procedure. Jim, you're a lawyer. You understand how important it is to follow policy and procedure. You're an officer of the court. Why don't we follow those here?

All right. Anyone else? Michael Bosch 3245 Golden Oak Court. Um, I just wanted to say thank you. I got my credit. I should say I got my money back that the township stole from me with a rate increase, which wasn't supposed to happen. And I appreciate finally getting that back. Um, what's sad is only once you get caught do you do the right thing. That's frustrating. Uh, I want to know who knew and when did they know because this this wasn't a surprise. I guarantee an employee had mentioned something to our manager that, hey, we're going to have an issue here. So, who knew? And who was the one that made that call that that's okay, we're going to go ahead and charge overcharge people from before that um rate increase went into effect. So, um it just gets me only when caught do you do the right thing. And then it reminded me, it was a couple years ago where Jimmy used taxpayer money for a political hit piece against his opponent, me, taxpayer money for a political hit job. Only when he was caught, when I saw the bill, hey, taxpayer money went for this. Oh. Oh, I'm I'm I'm going to pay for that myself. So only when caught do you do the right thing. And then it got me thinking. I don't I don't remember seeing any proof that you repaid the taxpayers for using their money illegally. So what I would ask is you provide a receipt, a copy of that check or Justin to show me the account that you did reimburse for that once you were caught.

Um, also I don't know if you realize what you stepped into with Eastbrook. You set yourself up for a lawsuit talking about opinion that you don't like something. I I sure hope they don't go after you guys and cost taxpayers more money. And I like how you tried to backpedal. Wait, wait, let me ask you. Was it were you saying got opinion? No, it's too late. The toothpaste is out of the tube. I just hope it doesn't turn into a lawsuit. And then committee appointments. I would like to recommend that you take schwama finance and put Kelly Kyper on. She's good with numbers. Schwam has proven over again he's not good with numbers. Over $500 in campaign finance violation fees. Please address the chair.

I am addressing the chair. All right, then look at the chair. Over $500 in fees. It just doesn't look good with money. Here's an opportunity as a board to say, you know what, maybe it's time for somebody new on finance. So, not looking good, but thank you. All right. Anyone else? Hearing none. Oh, I'm sorry, Joe. Yeah, I thought you'd come for utilities or something. Yeah. Yeah. No, I came for uh again, Joe Bush, Ottawa County Water Resources Commissioner. I'm making my rounds, so I thought I would stay here and kind of figure out what you guys got going in the township. So, interesting. Thank you.

Um, I'm making my rounds to all municipalities. And so, our GIS has been updated again. We had new aerials. So, I actually thought I'd bring a new map of all the drains that we have. so far in town in the township. Once in a while we find new ones from the late 1800s, the early 1900s will come across the drain once in a while in the files, jacket files. But anyway, I wanted to come and wish you guys a merry Christmas and a happy new year. Um, thank you for your partnership and all the things that we do drain related. Dustin and I talk quite often, so it's not like I'm a stranger and you don't know where I'm at or how to locate me, but uh you all know how to get a hold of me. You know, I serve your constituents just like you guys. Um, and also hopefully everybody saw the newsletter that I put together. Uh, my team and I I it's quite lengthy, a lot of information, but it's going to be coming out on a quarterly basis. Um, so you can get updates on all the projects. There's a lot of them. Okay.

And I was quite surprised to see we're over budget on. Some of those did pop up that weren't going to be part of a drain project, but we had sink holes and quite emergencies on some of those, so they just pop up. It's not like, you know, I could have planned those, but um Sure. Sure. We couldn't we were very aware of it even before Justin got here that there was flooding and holes in television. Um but again, I just want to say thanks for your partnership and hope everybody has a blessed if I don't see you before then somewhere. I know Justin. Um, so you guys know how to get a hold of me and I'm always available and um, thank you for letting me uh, speak. Thank you. Merry Christmas.

Thanks, Joe. Thank you, Joe. Good to see you. Merry Christmas to you, too. I'll stick around. Anyone else?

All right, hearing none, we'll close the second public comment period. Item 24, discussion on general information among the board. Anything anyone wishes to raise? Oh, I'd like to mention that um in the uh tax bills, there was a flyer that was put together by Justin and Andy that I thought was exceptional and it uh compared Georgetown to other municipalities in the area. Um it's the best I've ever seen and I'd like to recommend that not just with a tax bill, but we take a look at that going out in the newsletter. I I think extra copies should be made that when people come to visit us, they can take a look because it's very unique what we have here in Georgetown Township. And um I think it cuts through an awful lot of myths. So I hope you'll w wild wildly widely distribute that and I'd like to see extra copies and even as you walk in where information is made available there that might be something useful. So, incredibly good job. Best I've ever seen.

Was good. Anyone else? My tax bill was not the best I've ever seen. Just to be clear. Better than your summer one. All six of them. Some of them, eight of them, whatever I got. Like, thank Chelsea for stepping in for for Amber. It's probably her first experience of the board meeting and not sure she'll be back. Yeah, hopefully she will. We hope to see you tomorrow. I don't think anybody mentioned the tree lighting. Yeah, lighting was so great. Yeah, John did a great job with the speech and the chorus was they're just amazing. And I think they mentioned they have a concert coming up.

It was really lovely. They kept it a little bit shorter this year and it was cold so it was nice. But it's a nice job done by all. And Rob Bristo does a great job with everything inside and the trees look good. said the Amy's tennis tree. And thank you. The white lights on the tree. Yeah. Well, I'm going to we're going to talk about colored lights next year. Amy, I would have came, but my favorite Hallmark movie was on that night and I stayed with my wife and watched that with her. So, what happens like with a minute left, they kiss and it's all good. It's just Yeah, I was in Florida. That's what it's all about. The white lights on the palm tree. A motion to adjurnn. So move. All in favor say I. I

I oppose. It better not be. All right. Meeting. Thanks.