Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

there. Good evening. Uh, welcome to the September 17th uh, meeting of the Georgetown Planning Commission. Uh, call the meeting to order. Our first order of business is minute approval of the minutes from the August 20th uh meeting. Is there a motion to approve? So moved. Is there a second? I'll second that. Got a motion second. All in favor say I.

I. Opposed. Motion carried. Our next order business is a public hearing. Excuse me. for case number 2025-10 uh three and seven Parsons Lane Ces County Tax Parcel 135-15-17-121 and 135-15.17-122 an application by Primo Cash LLC and Antoine Houses Galves requesting the amendment to the town of Georgetown comprehensive plan future land use map for two parcels totaling.5 plus or minus acres ers from single family residential to business and an official zoning map amendment for the two parcels um from UR1 to UB1. Properties are located at three and seven Parsons Lane. Applicant ready to proceed.

Good evening. Ken Christianberry with Axium Engineering here in Georgetown representing this application. Mr. Rodus, the owner of the properties is here as well. if you have any questions that might require some input from him. Uh provided a cover letter. I hope you all have had a chance to to review it. It's fairly brief. It's about two pages. I'd like to kind of just sort of read through that with you all so you get a sense of what this request is about tonight. Uh this is the property that the applicant wishes to turn into a retail store uh at 7 Parsons Lane. The property has an existing garage that will be renovated for the proposed store if the change of zone is approved. The applicant desires to renovate the existing building shown in this photo to a retail store similar to other stores that you often see. Here's an example of one in Millsboro that's similar what he has in mind for this building. Uh phase one of this would be a renovation and a minimal site plan for the existing building. Phase two would be tearing down the residential property that's next door that he also owns and you know expanding the store and providing a more substantial parking lot. Um but both parcels right now are zoned you are they're zoned residential which is the purpose of our presentation tonight. It is understand is understood rather that uh subsequent to whatever happens tonight we would have to go through site plan review which would include building code reviews and that you all are not in a position to grant any of those things until the property is zoned to allow this to be a permitted use. So we have a pretty limited uh presentation just regarding whether or not this property is uh a good pick for urban business. Our application of course was filed. Uh subject properties are shown on your comprehensive plan map. Um we already received if you can see up there those two yellow properties.

It's red above us and left of us pink above us right of us blue to the southwest. And there's two yellow partials that are due south of us. U every one of those zones except for the yellow which is what we are are a business zone. You have the blue is urban business. The red is highway commercial. The pink is uh UB3, I believe. Let me double check that. Oh, I'm sorry. This is just your future land use map. So, we'll get to the zoning map shortly. Uh the two yellow properties to the south of us are presently vacant. They're just they're just grass. So, actually this this is a satellite image. This is the building that we'll be starting with that we call phase one. And phase two involve tearing down this home and doing more substantial This is the on my uh paper copy. Your screen's a little hard to read. Bear with me a moment. So, the zonings of the properties that that are contiguous to us have got highway commercial here and here and here. Down here you have your urban business one. This is what we're asking for here. You have maybe two neighborhood business here, here, here, here, and then in the south of us, we have one urban residential one, which again is presently vacant. When you look at the streetscape of where this property lies, that's what you see. It does not strike me as a particularly warm cozy place for residential, but uh a small business that would help, you know, it would be available for the folks at the ball fields. It's also a decent amount of residential within walking distance of here. Uh would certainly be who that would be catering to, but it's an appropriate location. Again, you see that as you're looking out of our driveway. Um the vacant lot next to it, of course, is the only

residential piece that we're adjacent to. Not even the ball fields are residential. They're urban business. They're UB1, which is the exact zoning we are requesting for this application. Um, so you can sort of see it's it's not removed from business. It's smack dab in the middle of it. Um, these are, of course, the county tax maps. It just gives you some idea of what, of course, their their property lines aren't that accurate. We do have uh surveys that were done for the two properties. This is the one I'm calling phase two. dwelling in the number of the garage that we will intend and renovate and uh ex you know do a limited site plan in phase one and then a more consolidated plan for the for the buildout at some future date. This is your zoning map. Everything I showed you on the uh the satellite image is kind of replayed here. So you can see that we are literally surrounded on three sides by business zoning whether it's highway commercial neighborhood business or urban business. Uh we are not in a rural uh quaint location for for someone to put up a house and raise a family in my opinion. So that's the extent of our presentation because again we know that this is not a site plan review. This is not a building code review. It's a answering the question, does this property make sense to change the zone to UB1? Uh, and just based on the character of the neighborhood, uh, what's there, what's around us. And with that, I'll entertain any questions that the commission might have,

questions, not yet. This is a public hearing. Is uh, there anybody in attendance that would like to speak in favor of the applicant? Is there anybody online? Is there anybody who would like to speak against the applicant? No, we can take a motion. Okay. I make a motion to recommend that the town council approve the proposed amendment to the town of Georgetown's comprehensive plan future land use map for two parcels totaling.5 plus or minus acres from single family residential to business identified in Sussex County tax parcels 135-15.17-121-122.

Okay. Have a motion. Is there a second? I'll second the motion. Okay, we will take a roll call vote. Commissioner Allen. Yes. Commissioner Roach, yes. Commissioner Leates, yes. And I'm a yes as well. I I think it makes sense. You are surrounded by businesses. Great. Great. Uh what's a rough scheduling for town council because we do proceed there next, right, Brian? Um I think we have a schedule for you. So, actually, so there's actually one more vote they need to take, but but but um it will be Oh, we'll get back to you on that. I think it's going to be um 60 days. Yeah, about about 60 days. Yeah. Okay, great.

So, that was half of your application. So, that was to amend the comprehensive plan. Now, we need to act on amending the zoning maps. Okay. Motion. Okay. Okay. A motion to recommend that the town council approve the proposed amendment to the town of Georgetown's official zoning map for two parcels totaling.5 acres from UR1 urban residential to UB1 urban business identified as Sussex County Tax Parcels 135-15.17-121 and 122. Okay, I have a motion. Is there a second?

I'll second it. Okay, we'll take a roll call vote. Commissioner Allen, yes. Commissioner Roach, yes. Commissioner Leates, yes. And a yes as well for the same reason. So, thank you. You're welcome. All right. The next order of business is also a public hearing for ordinance number 2025-07. Um it's uh to change the um UR1 district to allow permitted uses for cottage house developments. Mr. Devorick.

Good evening. For the record, Gene De'vorick, town manager for the town of Georgetown. here this evening to present um information for a public hearing on uh ordinance 2025-07 which is cottage um community development. So I want to start off um when we did our comprehensive plan in 2021 we did identify as one of the sections that's required under state code housing goals and strategies. As part of that here are four goals that were identified. One was to increase the range of housing types within the town of Georgetown which results in pricing as well as densities. The second one was to prod promote additional affordability to the average Georgetown household. One of the other ones was to have additional opportunities for new market rate and workforce housing through redevelopment infill lots. And then the final one was to have greater flexibility for housing unit within our zoning code. In addition to our comprehensive plan, last year the general assembly formed the affordable housing production task force. And this was to um identify what the state could do in order to promote, encourage, and get more affordable housing production taking place. Their second objective of that task force in their final report was to implement local zoning control reform. So, it's important that um we all understand that if the municipalities do not take action to u modify their codes to encourage these types of um changes for affordable and um workforce housing, the state will help solve the problem for us. But as part of that, they did um identify establishing minimum densities of not less than four units per acre for single family detached and attached zoning districts. Another one was to have a minimum lot size not greater than 5,000 square feet for single family detached

and to have other things that the government could do that would enable development. So, we're here tonight to talk about something that I just want to make sure so everyone hopefully has seen our housing continuum. On the far left, it starts with folks dealing with homelessness, then uh move to an emergency shelter, some type of supportive housing or social housing. Then the middle piece is affordable rental, affordable ownership. And then the far right is um market rentals and market ownership. The focus with a cottage community is on the middle portion, affordable rentals and affordable ownership. This is not a solution for homelessness. It is not designed for homeless individuals to move into. It is truly for folks that are working and they are looking for either a place to rent or a place to live and own. So, this came about uh we were approached by um Little Living and the Fuller Center for Housing Delaware back in February of this year seeing what would be possible to do here in Georgetown. Unfortunately, our our town zoning code is silent to this type of development. So, at that point in time, what we worked with was the town council passing a resolution that allowed for the um construction of two prototype um demonstration homes on East Market Street land owned by Little Living. And it's a one-bedroom cottage and a two-bedroom cottage. Uh throughout March and April, the construction actually took place. We did have a um April May time frame, a uh grand opening. They had news media. They had members of the general assembly. I know the governor has been invited down. And then in June, July, and August, we've been working with um various other officials to tour these facilities. And the next steps were to have public hearings for a proposed um ordinance. Throughout that time, from February through August, the community development department's been researching, working with the town

solister and internally on what would make an ordinance that meets the criteria, meets the intent of the affordable workforce as well as meets what Georgetown would want to preserve its heritage. So, the ordinance itself um identifies and I'm going to turn it over to Brian here in a second. Uh but it highlights definitions, various zoning district approval process, design guidelines, site layout, and parking. So, I'll turn it over to him now. We'll do the technical piece.

All right. So, I'm going to go through each one of these individually and then we'll also look at a couple examples of what types of communities have been developed um in similar ways. So firstly we um introduced definitions uh which are not currently present in the zoning ordinance and so these are applicable only to um cottage housing developments. Um so that's the term that we use cotting house cottage housing development. That's the development type that you would be able to uh to build um under this provision. It basically allows um these types of homes um arranged uh either around or attached to an open space uh as well as um they can frequently also include community buildings um as well as community spaces. So we define all of these characteristics um to ensure that the ordinance um is is is covered uh definition-wise. Um so the zoning district that this would be permitted in. So, we're only going to be per we would only permit this in the UR1 district. Um, now, as you may or may not know, a lot of our zoning ordinance um actually cumulatively allows um less intense uses in more intense districts. So, the UR1 uses are actually allowed in most other zoning districts in um in the town. So, including commercial and industrial districts. So, we were not prepared to initially allow this type of use in every single zoning district um in the town of Georgetown. So uh so we wrote this especially to only permit it um in the UR1 zoning district and not any others um despite what um other uses may be permitted. Um so we also provide um minimum lot yard and area requirements that that are not actually covered um by this because the UR1 has its own um particular dimensional criteria that that are not going to be applying here. Um but otherwise every part of the zoning code, the design develop or development design standards as well as the design and construction standards

all apply. Um additionally uh in including you know these regulations as well. Um how will this be approved? Um this will can be developed actually in two separate ways. Um the first way is through a single type of common ownership. um which is the way that the little living um development would be proposed to be built. That would be reviewed um as a category one site plan. That means that it comes before the planning commission like most other types of commercial developments as well as um you know apartment dwellings um and things of that nature. U so that would have site plan review by the planning commission um as most other major developments are. Uh the other way this can be developed as is basically as a miniature subdivision. Um so we we'll see some examples of where that has been done elsewhere in the uh country but so this can also be permitted as individual lots. U so that would be ruled by the subdivision uh code um of Georgetown. Um so in terms of design again I mentioned the development design standards which are uh largely the planning commission's perview in reviewing uh still apply to this these types of developments. However we've added additional requirements that are that go above and beyond what the development standards um apply for. And so we additionally will require porches, um sidewalk or pathways connected to every um cottage, um specific buffer yard requirements, specific open space requirements. Um both in terms of common open space as well as private spaces to uh to ensure that each individual unit has its own um private spaces in which to to to do um you know to quietly enjoy their their um their little residence as well. uh as well as regulating how the

common spaces arrange uh are arranged in the development. It'll um we would allow houses to be actually fronting on the common open spaces and not fronting on streets as is common in most conventional residential development. So that's that's one of the key differences in this type of development versus your conventional subdivision. Um and again we'll see some pictures where this this might actually um hit home uh for you. So as I mentioned in terms of site layout um a lot of road frontage um is not required for every individual unit but of course it needs to be accessible um by emergency services and other types of um personnel. Um it also regulates the orientation of the individual dwelling units. That's what the CDU stands for cottage dwelling units. Um it also ensures that there's privacy essentially between different units and this can be accomplished in a number of ways. um either through alternating side window placements, alternating setbacks, um strategic landscaping or trellising. Um and we do also uh require a separation of at least 10 feet between um every unit and that's also a fire marshall requirement. So that would have also applied already. Um but we codified that as well. Uh for parking, we wanted to make sure that parking was right sized for the types of residents and the types of um households that would be um potentially, you know, using these types of um dwellings. Uh so in most cases in the town of Georgetown, every single residential unit will require two parking spaces. Um so we've changed that slightly uh with this particular development type. Um, so any one-bedroom units uh will require a minimum of one and a half parking spaces as opposed to two. Um, however, two bedrooms and above uh will still require two parking spaces as well. Uh, we also regulate where the

parking is uh permitted and where it's prohibited. Um, one other aspect of these developments is that you locate parking um not right next to or right in front of um a dwelling. um these are arranged in a way to sort of boost the communal aspect of the community and so basically it deemphasizes the paved areas of the parking and and again that will be that will become clear once we see a couple photos of what I'm talking about here. Um and lastly we also ensure that um certain accessory uses that are common to any residential use um are also permitted. uh most importantly u a community building uh and that's not necessarily a clubhouse like you might see in these again a conventional subdivision. These tend to be of a smaller nature. Sometimes they can be shared storage spaces. Sometimes they can be a shared recreational or kitchen amenity um that's used or you know frequently again there's also other amenities like decks and patios and gazeos that would still be permitted um as well as fences and other um potential spaces with garages as well. Um so here's a good example of of what things would be possible under this zoning. Um this is the third street cottages in Langley, Washington. This is one of the first modern uh types of this type of community that was developed in the late 90s, early 2000s. As you can see, there is a um an arrangement of those units around um a central courtyard which is highly landscaped. Um these are actually owner occupied here. So, this was subdivided in a way that each of these units is individually owned and the common spaces are owned by an HOA or a condo um association, which would be the way it would happen in Georgetown if someone wanted to develop in this manner. It would be a sort of homeowner um association that would own and manage the common spaces. But you can see that

there's not, you know, single driveways for every single unit. Um the parking is deemphasized to the side in this case. Here's a slightly larger um example of that where you actually have some street frontage for some of these units, but there's not for others. Uh however, emergency access emergency personnel are always able to access the site um as required. Um so again you sort of these all have porches that that was a requirement in this development as well um to sort of boost again that commut communal neighborhoodly um aspect to the um the development. Here's a a more recent example that is actually still under development in Longmont Colorado. It's called the Veterans Community Project. They have a couple of these uh communities and you can tell these are actually smaller um than the ones that we saw previously in Washington. These are actually probably close to 6 to 800 square f feet and these are in the sort of 3 to 500 square feet range. But you can see there's smaller ones and slightly larger ones. And there is a significant community building here. So as the name implies this is housing for veterans. um where you also have porches and you also have them alternatively arranged along the green as well as facing each other uh which can also count as that green uh common space um that is used. This is a single common ownership model. Um it's owned by a nonprofit and managed that way. Um but again you see the parking to the side and you see that common area that is maintained in that fashion as well. Um,

all right. So, this um is not a new concept to the town of Georgetown. We actually have homes that were constructed probably in the 1800s uh just about half a mile from here on uh East North Street. So, u very similar to a cottage home. And when you see the next set of slides, you'll see the same information. But, uh this is something you go and look at. And it's a mirror on the opposite side. If you go to Tracy Street, there's three units that back up on the opposite side with road frontage. These are the two units. The green unit is the um one-bedroom cottage that's on East Market Street, and the blue is the uh two-bedroom. Now, these were um built prior to the design with having the front porch. And again, this was for proof of concept, and I encourage anyone who's interested in seeing the interior. We're doing two open houses in cooperation with Little Living. We will have it open this Saturday the 20th from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. and again on Saturday, October the 4th. Um, but when you come in, there's a full kitchen, uh, living room, bedroom, uh, full bathroom, and then on the second floor, there's an area you go up a set of stairs to the second floor for the second bedroom. Um this compares what the little living model with the um front porch to a closeup of one of the existing homes on East North Street. Uh other than the peak of the roof, I think there's an attic. Um I've been in one of the homes on East North where there is not an attic on the um the cottages that Little Living's going to be looking at doing, but certainly we have this already in town today, just not available in our zoning code. So the request this evening is um for a favorable recommendation for this ordinance uh to move it to the town council for a public hearing before them. And with that, Mr. Chairman, we'll be happy to answer any questions. We do have representatives from Little Living

here to address some questions that you might have as well. Questions? Questions?

Yes. Um, as I look at the ordinance as it's written, um, it says that it shall meet the Sussex County building code known as tiny homes. And as I read the Sussex County Ordinance for Tiny Homes, that says, if I understand it correctly, it's written for homes 400 square ft or less, excluding any lofts. And I think what's being proposed here are homes that are over 400 square feet. Um, and I believe we need some assurance that the homes would meet all state and local building codes.

Yeah. And I I will address that. So, prior to even the construction of the two proof of concept homes, they had to go through Sussex County building code to get approval. The town doesn't do its own inspection. So, we'll check that section. We probably will end up modifying that, but everything we do for the town of Georgetown does get approved through Sussex County. Okay. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Excellent question.

Um, additionally, um, there's language that says the um, uh, common areas will be controlled by a homeowners association. And shown the two examples there, um, the larger of the two had streets coming into it. I I'd like to know if the streets will be controlled by a homeowners association or if they'll be designed and built in accordance with town standards and then eventually deed to the town. So that ultimately depends on the um on the intention of the developer. We've seen some examples um especially in Newcastle County which has uh an ordinance that anticipate a similar ordinance to ours but it it's sort of ripped large being anticipated that it would be developed over multiple acres um in which case they are anticipating several clusters of these types of um courts you could say. Um so those the streets between those I think um would have would be u public public streets and it would again be up to a you know, sort of the particulars of a development. Um, but uh we imagine that developments in the acre sort of realm uh are not going to be building public streets as a part of them. Um you know, it would be very similar to an apartment building where they have interior drive aisles and interior um passageways between parking lots. And so it would be especially in the um uh when it's a single owner concept that uh that all of those would be privately um maintained as a part of that. Um yeah, if if we saw like a a multiple acre um uh development, we would have to take a look at that. But any public any streets that would be dedicated to the town would have to meet the town standards.

We just would not accept it otherwise. Um and I think my last question is um you referred to uh two types of development fee simple or a collection of units by a single owner. Um the ordinance also reads leasable lots. Um, I question the affordability of any home on a leasable lot and uh feel pretty strongly that leasable lots are um not going to make anything affordable over a long period of time. Yeah, we can we can certainly take a look at that and that can be a part of a recommendation that that that's um that we take that out. Yeah. Essentially, you know, any fe simple lot um with a house on it, you know, can be uh leased as is as is common, you know, in Georgetown and other towns where, you know, a house is leased um to another. But yes, I I I think you're referring to the practice of some developments where um the house is owned and feasible, but the land is is act is leased by a a common entity of some sort. Yeah.

Yeah. And that would be my concern. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. I I don't think we would want to encourage that. Um so we can we can certainly um take a look at that as well. And then last but not least, I'm sorry I said that was my last question, but last but not least, you showed us an example of the homes that are currently there and then the example of the home um

there. Um, I totally agree that the house to the left, as I'm facing it, um, is consistent with the houses you showed on North Street, but it doesn't represent what is currently down there. So, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here. I know we're talking about the ordinance, but I also don't want to be of the understanding I'm going to see what's on the left in the long run. um and it be what's currently down there.

Part of the dilemma with doing a proof of concept is they were trying to design to meet what our requirements were before we had an ordinance. So that's why as we went through it, we incorporated the requirements for the porches because we agree that that is not characteristic of Georgetown, Delaware. Right. Thank you. However, this is

so that's why it's a requirement. So uh the development design standards apply plus. So it's a little bit more that you have to uh put in in order to achieve the look feel on a quality Georgetown not something those original. So the the proof of concept homes are not on foundations. They'll be relocated and then modified to meet all the criteria.

Yeah. I also wanted to mention too that um you know presently as as you know you know we in our design standards we do have um we do have existing standards for window um coverage and everything on front facades and everything else and we we do acknowledge that that that that's not presently on these um I I think that the de you know the the eventual developer will be able to tell you um you know might be able to offer some alternatives uh potentially I don't want to speak for them necessarily necessarily but um but it is acknowledged that that there can be um we need to make sure that any unit um is compliant with the design standards and and if they for whatever reason can't and they would need to come in for a waiver um of those standards. So in this case for instance you know there there might need to be um if not added to later um there might need to be some uh windows um you know either added or or you know waved by by um the planning commission at that case. Um so so th so those are those are things that you know ultimately have to be um dealt with at the development stage. Um you know so but we acknowledge that

and and this is ultimately your target audience is working those that have jobs. Correct. So the intent is for someone who let's say is working at the Purdue plant here in Georgetown is currently living in Bridgeville. So their disposable income that they have is being spent on transportation, whereas they could get something here that's um a for rent product 800 or yeah 800 to $1,000 per month and be able to afford it and then put some savings and then the goal is when they're amassed some money that then they move into from something that's attainable into something that's market rate.

Okay. Thank you. So the you're saying the require what are the requirements to lease these you should be have a job. Is that the requirement? So I believe in the case of Little Living who is who started this process with us. These are only for folks that are um currently employed. It's not for someone who I do not believe that they are looking for either um USDA housing vouchers or any assistance from the Delaware State Housing Authority. Will they be accepting any vouchers? I don't believe so. Yeah. You want to come up and introduce yourself?

These are representatives from Living. So, will you be accepting any vouchers? Um, first of all, my name is Tony Vincens. I'm on the board. Uh, we will not be accepting vouchers. That's a concern. Thank you. So, what will we be doing about the maintenance for the area for the yards and the common area? Sure. So, uh, we have funds set aside for the maintenance. We'll have a property management company maintain that property. Okay. And my other question is, how are you going to make sure that they adhere to the occupancy guidelines? Because I know I I have rental units and sometimes you rent to two people and all of a sudden you'll find out there's five people. Five people in there. Sure.

So, and we as a town cannot just go in and inspect them. Um, so how will that be man? Sure. Again, that would be be through the property management company that' be on a regular basis. We'll make sure that they can go in and inspect it. And how often would the property management be checking when they checking this neighborhood? I mean, I mean, we haven't set the rules up, but I would imagine at least quarterly, if not if that more often. Okay. Are you suggesting something more frequent? I just worry about daily. Daily minute hourly. Yeah. No, no, we you know, we

Where's the management company located? Well, right now we've uh we haven't settled on one, but one of the ones is the first date that we've had them come in and take a look. It's called First Date. They're here in Georgetown. So, uh so we would use somebody like that to manage that property. I know where you're located. I know where you're located. It's going to be on the Market Street. Correct. And so that's a the come to Georgetown, that's one of the first things you're going to see. So I'm very concerned about constantly maintained and looks neat.

Yep. So, so we don't disagree with you at all. I mean, but again, this is um you know, it's easier to say say than than actually do. I I appreciate that. But we want to be comfortable with living. If we had to, we would live there ourselves. How about landscaping? What do you have? Yeah, landscaping. It's actually we've had uh companies volunteer to to do the landscaping. We'll continue. All that is actually built into the financial model that we have. And I have a concern about the gazebo idea. Okay. We've had a couple of those in town and we've had to remove them. Okay. Uh so I think you might want to think twice about that. I'm sure Jean and Brian can we'll take that a little bit of problem. Okay. Uh just something to think about. Yep. Absolutely.

Okay. That's good. You sure? Okay. All right. Thank you.

If if I can say something here, the reason these homes are built like this is because they're proof of concept homes. And unlike a builder for profit, we don't have any profit. We're all volunteers. It's going to be easier for us to to move that house and to fix it up and put it up. You'll have to raise up the bottom, you know, the bottom of it. But if you go inside this house, you'll see quality. and you'll see workmanship that is second to none. They're really nice inside.

And that's what we're trying to strive for, to give somebody something nice to live in and that it's affordable. When we started looking at what was affordable, it means a lot of different things to a lot of people. But the truth is the person when you look at the average income and what they can afford and what they can have left over for spending and whatever, okay, it's around $1,000 to $1,200. So in honest, I grew up in a home this size right here. and I had a sister, a father, and a mother and a brother. So, I understand living in a house that size. And so did George, the founder of our corporation. We're a 501c3 corporation. None of us, if you doubled my salary, it comes out to zero. So that's pretty much if you have any other questions about these houses don't appeal to me. But when you put them with a porch and a roof on the porch and you dress them up just like the one that you see on the other slide. That's a nice looking house. It is

nicer looking than the one that I grew up in. Could you now are you going to be able to Could you introduce yourself please? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Joe Aquilla. I'm on the board. Yeah, I talked and I didn't introduce myself and I'm sorry about that. Will you be providing electric and Wi-Fi also? Yes. And I know um I just want to address this. Gene, didn't you understood that you said the state is moving forward in this and that if the state took over, they would be in charge of this, which I don't think would be a good thing for

No, no. So, um the concern is that the state's been trying to deal with affordable housing and workforce housing for quite some time. The last two general assemblies, there's been a push for accessory dwelling units. And as a result of the um task force report with local zoning reform, essentially if we don't do the things ourselves to um reform our zoning codes, the state will solve that problem for us with mandated zoning codes and that's what they tried with ADUs and that was not a good fit. It worked well for Lewis. It would not work well for Georgetown, that accessory dwelling unit bill.

So we're trying to get ahead of the game and showing that we can do innovative things. One thing I should have mentioned is from the first meeting we had with the design, the design did not meet our occupancy standards for room sizes. They went back had them reddrafted so that they did comply with the town code. That's when they took them over to Sussex County for the building code review. Thank you.

All right. I've got a couple questions for you guys. So the concept I I'm okay with the concept. The the the example from Washington State that's beautiful. I would love to have that in our town. The second not so much that looks more more like Pallet Village than you know a nice little you know modest rental community. Um, so there's nothing while the concept is that these are rental units, there's nothing in the ordinance that requires that. So it could end up being transitional housing.

Well, the intent again is for it not to be transition. There is so there is so much demand right now for housing. So the pallet village is for someone who may or may not have a job, predominantly not have a job, right? That is not the market for these. These are folks that have jobs today but have no place to live. Um for instance, if you go up to I believe it's the Redmill Inn on the Coastal Highway, they've got a portion of the hotel where folks have jobs, they just can't find a place to live. That would be the candidate for here. Yes.

Right. Yeah, I understand that and and I supportive of that, but there's nothing that requires that in this code. Um, and couple questions about the the le um fe simple new concept, you know, whether or not that would actually ever happen, but if it did, right, I see no standards of what the minimum, you know, lot size for a fee simple version of this would be. Um, well, you're right. You're right. that that wasn't provided um because it's to be honest it's not it's not 100% important um because it's it's

these are meant to be um in the example that I I showed you here um there's a max there's basically a site

wide minimum um and so they're developed as if they don't have lot lines um but but they but they do there's an example I could have put up from um uh it's from Georgia it's a Clarkston Georgia. Um that looks very similar to um the top one. And um and they're all loted, but they're allotted around um again a similar court, but the court is its own lots and then the the driveway and the parking is a part of that same lot. So it's Yeah. So basically it's you have um lots that don't have street frontage. And so that's as that's actually if you look at the very end of the ordinance um there is a uh we're amending we would propose to amend not just the zoning ordinance but the subdivision ordinance which um makes that that explicitly permitted. Um it would be chapter 194 section 36 of the subdivision code uh subsection C frontage or access. Uh, so we're actually adding language that um that says ex except as explicitly permitted in chapter 230-25H, which is what we're talking about here of the zoning code regarding cottage housing developments, each lot shall have frontage on and access to a street. So, so that's it's permitting the the creation of lots that don't have street frontage. But um but yes, but you're but you're right. There aren't minimum lot sizes specifically and that was that was intentional

um because it it it makes less sense because actually they don't have um they don't typically have full-on yard space, backyards, front yards. There there are sitewide um buffers, sitewide setbacks from adjacent land owners. Um but it's meant to be flexible for those types of developments, too. um again to to to basically arrange the units that make sense for that community. Um but no that that is true. So you mentioned setbacks. This there is no no rear setback requirement on these units.

Um so there's there's a setback again for the entire site. Um when they are arranged in this fashion um if units were arranged back to back it's basically 10 ft because um every structure needs to be set back 10 ft from the other. But if but a unit can sit on the property line. No. No. Um so in this case if you look at the um if you look at the second one here there is um a buffer there. So the buffers would still be there's a 15 foot buffer basically um from from all property lines already. So

all right um and there's a maximum of 12 per acre. Yes. Should there be a minimum because I mean do we can can someone just put a a tiny house on any one lot once we pass this? Technically yes if it complies with the building code. Um, and do we want that? Do we want little dining houses dispersed throughout? I mean, the the concept here is to, you know, create a neighborhood.

Well, they can do that today to be honest. You know, some someone can come come in today with um a single building on a single lot that's 400 square feet and if it meets our occupancy standards and it meets the building code, then they can they can build it. Um so actually this is this isn't stopping that or increasing that. Um that's already permitted. Um what we're allowing is the is the full um arrangement of of this type of development essentially. And unlike some other municipalities, we do not have a minimum house size

which would address your concern 72 by 7200 foot lot with a 400 foot house in the center. And I I would I would say that I I wouldn't if I might editorialize for a moment, I don't know if I would recommend that because that that tends to directly go against the whole affordability argument. Um because when you have a minimum house size, you're going to get only a certain type of buyer. And I mean that obviously has its pros and cons, but so if if that's if that's going to be um you know again if this is going to be our goal, those are just some considerations to to come up with.

So just a a comment. So, um, if we, you know, recommend approval, I definitely like the standards that are in here with the porches and the sidewalks and, um, you know, to make it a real community. Yes. Any other questions from commission? Not. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak in favor of the application?

Please go to the podium, state your name. Hello, my name is Tony Short. I'm the director of Lighthouse for Broken Wings and my clients are been male clients. Um, I have families, individuals. I have uh disabled individuals who are challenged. uh because they're using devices like walkers and wheelchairs. And I have families um my average family size is about four kids to one parent. Um I have the most I have is 12. A family of 12 and they desperately need housing. Um this housing project will help them to be able to be have permanent stability housing. They're not going to be in a neighborhood where they feel they're going to be uncomfortable. Um they're not going to have high crime. Crime's everywhere, but it's going to be a low impact of crime. The individuals will be um vet vetted by these gentlemen. Um Georgia, I know them very well. Um who's also um part of this. I believe um we need these small little houses um which is affordable for um for the residents to be able to be productive in our society. They're already working at the stores at restaurants. They're working at minimum wage jobs. Some has two. The family are 12. The mother's working four um in order to pay rent. Rent is very expensive. Um, and the credit score, as you know, is between 680

and higher, they want. And then they say, "We don't want any people that have uh any criminal background." It could be misdemeanor. Um, some of my clients have trespassing because they were sleeping out in the woods or sleeping on someone's property. And this would prevent that. That would decrease reduce the that kind of um behavior. Um, you have people that want a sense of their own place and a sense of home and this will give them the sense of home at affordable cost um at Red Mill. So, you know, the price the price is 600 to 650 a week. Um, obviously, you know, um, the funding restraints that we have today that we're facing. Um, so my population I have done so far is 150. Usually I bet about 300 to 350 a year. Um, that's the ones I take off the street that ones that go through the education training or job training or get a job and follow what they need to do to move out of homelessness. But if I'm telling them to do all these criterias to get out of homelessness and but at the end there's nothing for them. So they're stuck out in the streets which no one knows. Georgetown is a good place for these tiny homes and you can um I think doing a pilot study having this these homes come in will definitely make a change. It's not going to take away everything. And we all know that the homeless population varies and the um individuals that are in the homeless population. Not everyone in the homeless population is bad. Not everyone have a criminal record. Not everyone is doing substance abuse.

Okay. Um that's everywhere. But the population I work with, I don't tolerate that and they don't come. So because I have an intolerance of that. Um families, I'm family oriented. Um the kids need a place, a safe place to go, um to play, to go home, to have someone to come over. Um they're embarrassed to bring their school friends to the hotel room because they don't want to be made fun of. Um I got them all in Cape Palan School District um because obviously they have to be adapted for their education needs due to the fact they are transit. They're going back and forth. But I really support this and I think this is going to be good for Georgetown and for Stus County. Um, can I address what you said about having tiny homes pop up everywhere? We do have small tiny homes around Georgetown and in Sexus County and they fit the same criteria as this, but they're making a village. are making it that this community all have something in common and they can work together and I think they um deserve a chance um before we can say um this is not going to work but we we have to give everyone a chance and the individuals I do not believe this individual here who's building these homes has the intent to have something bad. We're not trying to have another um as some people say from out of state a ghetto. They're building a village of home, a sense of home for people that can't afford regular homes because working a minimum wage job $15 an hour and they're working 40 to 60 hours. It doesn't cut it and

they're coming up short.

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today um to this panel who is looking into um something that is so needed. I'm Jacqueline Sturbach and I am the president and founder of What is Your Voice? We are an agency that has a full acre in the outside of Lewis and right across from the bus stop. And we have been building this agency now uh here locally getting ready to celebrate our 11th year as a 501c3. What makes us different and how uh we feed into this is that we are working with um all those that are coming out of harmful situations of the past and helping them navigate and rebuild their lives with their children. Uh and what is really important about that is that because I always say um addiction and violence are like twins. uh and um actually autoimmune disorders like the triplet. I've been doing research for over 15 years. I am a survivor myself and launched the nonprofit. And this is what I want to say. We bring them in. They are living in cars. They are working. the working homeless is perfect for this new um facility because what we do is we bring them in. They might not have not have anything but their clothes on their back, but we have low-income transitional housing right on our campus. So, we have three houses that we have built to date. I'm wanting to build a fourth. Uh and so what we do is we bring them in, we get

them started, we get them jobs, we get them everything they've lost, giving it back while we protect the children and keep the family together so they get separated and we help them rise up and within six months they're working, they have a car, they have a job, all those things are going and then we transition them into our long-term low-income transitional housing units for a year. And the income there that they pay is anywhere between 475 and maybe the tops. We've had 20 children in two units at shared units. Beautiful homes that have everything, multiple refrigerators, multiple um uh huge um uh bedrooms uh with their own bath and and everything you could think of, walk-in closets, like master bathrooms and and everything. And the reason why I did that was because it's really important to send a message to somebody who hard things have happened. Not everybody willingly gets caught up in things, but we get caught up in things and make and and make bad choices because that's all we knew until somebody shows us and gives us hope that there could be a different outcome. Tony's working aggressively in this area. This Jud is and I am too. And so this would give me the perfect opportunity after they've been in our housing units for a year to build rebuild their credits. A lot of them have gone back to college. I have two that actually bought their own homes for the first time ever. Uh it's just been um a wonderful program to see all this change. Most important thing is this would give me a place to say well this is your next step. Uh because the what keeps them from opening up the door for a new place to live is that the majority of them are living in their cars or third third party places and they can't build their credit or get any kind of anybody to stand forward and

then say, "Okay, you've been in our program for a year. They paid their rent. They didn't destroy anything. They did everything, you know, and we stand up for them." And that's going to be the key that opens the door for them to move because we're working on them getting their credit, getting back to college, whatever it is their dream was, whatever it is they lost, while we're protecting their children from repeating the past, which is all they know. So, I I do support this program and I would go one step further saying that we would provide um addiction counseling, mental health counseling, trauma, PTSD counseling. We have phones that we can provide free uh with minutes, all that. We provide everything that you could possibly need when your house has burnt down. And that's what it looks like when somebody loses everything. Everything that meant anything to them is gone. And so I just want to I just want to uh have an opportunity to speak to everyone your uh honorable uh committee and I thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you. Good evening everyone and Chris. I haven't seen you in a while. Um I'm Jud Malone. I'm the executive director of Springboard Delaware. Uh we are the nonprofit that operates the officially known Georgetown Navigation Center, but everybody knows it as a pilot village. Um, our purpose is to bring stable housing environment and supportive services to people who persistently and chronically have been homeless and living outdoors is the first stopping point from the woods into an environment where they can get the help they need to move on to permanent housing. So the whole purpose of the pallet village is to get people into housing and it has been a huge challenge simply because uh not simply not totally but because housing is so hard to find. It's hard to find vacancies and it's hard to find affordable rent and that is the reason this is such an important initiative here to change the zoning. Springboard is also has access to 14 acres of land here in Georgetown within the city limits off of Sand Hill Road which we intend to develop into a uh cottage home community. Uh this zoning, the property is under UR1 zoning. This if it passes would be a permitted use for that property. Um, it is our intent.

I'll answer some questions about you are concerned about land rents. Right now, the way we're looking at structuring this is Springboard as a nonprofit would own the land, would voluntarily put it under covenants or some longlasting commitment that it would support that land is there for affordable housing. So that in up to 99 years that whatever gets built under her, it has to be an affordable product. The actual entity that owns and operates and runs the community is likely going to be what's called a special purpose entity. And the reason it's not springboard itself is because of the way we may have to put our financing together and we may have to attract uh opportunity zone financing which attracts investors who are looking for tax credits. Well, a nonprofit doesn't have any tax credits to share. It has to be set up that way. But it would be a special purpose entity whose sole purpose is to run that one community according to the regulations and the mission that we have for it. We want to target it as a mixed income community. The people are coming out of the pallet village almost certainly will need vouchers and we are looking at projectbased vouchers when they come they will be able to afford to live there contributing whatever they can afford to contribute so long as the sum total is within 30% of their gross income. That's kind of classically what's considered affordable. So uh even millionaires have a budget. So there is some form of house that is affordable and some form that's not

affordable. But for for people at the extremely low income, 30% of area median income or less, you'll need a voucher in order to cover the gap between what fair market rent is and what they can afford to pay. Now, fair market rent is an established income rental limit established by HUD so that they know how to calculate how much voucher is going to be supporting that rent for a one-bedroom apartment. It's around $1,065 in Sussex County. $1,65 for one bedroom. I may have my numbers slightly wrong, but if you're going to be able to afford that and not have any vouchers, you'd have to make around 40ome thousands a year.

The vouchers are short term. Vouchers aren't year long. Vouchers Vouchers are only so many months long and then the voucher stops. Then what happens? Repeat. Rep. Vouchers do not go on forever. What happens when they they have That's true. They do not they don't go on forever. Uh they at some point they're either going to have to increase their income which they can do quite a bit because this is going to be a mixed income community. Some people without a voucher can afford to pay the rent. True. But the ones you have with vouchers, they're not going to be able to stay there if they don't have the voucher to help them. Right. Yeah. Right. But there there is going to have to be

that's what I don't want to see in our community. I want to see stable people in the community where they have a stable income and they're going to stay there for a while. It's not the transition like, oh, the voucher's up in three months, so we got to go. The the voucher is not that short term. Well, it's not long term. So, I'll get you the answer to that. So, are we are we are we talking about this project with vouchers or I thought this was not supposed to have any vouchers. So the issue is we're talking about an ordinance, two different projects, both of them fit in this ordinance and that that's my concern. Yeah.

No. So an issue is this is a form of housing. It can be built and we hope we can make the numbers work that if we can get an income stream of at least fair market rent, then it will sustain itself. whether the now the question that you have is the people who require a voucher in order to live there how long will that voucher last and how long and I'll have to get you the answer to that I think if it's a placebased voucher then the voucher stays with the community it does not go with the individual so as long as they live there that voucher is available up to some time limit which I'll get you that answer. A choice voucher is when the person has the voucher but and they try to find a landlord who will accept it and those also have some form of time in it.

But that's not really going to be relevant to our question because our pro our project because we've already been assured that they're not going to be doing vi it goes back to what I just said. So, you know, these gentlemen back here are are the gentlemen that want to put the project on Market Street and, you know, they're saying that they're they're not looking at this model. This the model that Jud is right speaking about fits this ordinance. So, if we pass this ordinance and he meets all the requirements, his project gets approved.

Yeah. I don't read in in the ordinance a regulation or rule about what forms of rent you will a landlord or owner would accept. I may be wrong. I don't read into it that I think what you're saying is if we're compliant with the zoning and we as landlords we can choose to accept vouchers right rental income. So we don't but I will get you to I don't think it's as shortterm as you're thinking. I think there's ways I know the SRAP vouchers can go on for years. But

right. Okay. Okay. real quickly. From my understanding, your project is going to be for individuals who will be working in sorry who are going to be working in the community um as employees and they from my that's my understanding and um and they they need stability. So it's more like workforce housing. Yeah. Okay. Correct. of the project that they are um proposing, right? Okay.

Um Jez um project is different from their project, but they still have to get the same ordinance approval. Correct. The way I read design, it could apply to either type of project. Okay. Right. At least way it's written now. So this project here is We got You got that? Yep. Mhm. Absolutely. All right. And his project is the choice that he's doing. I It's People usually get tangled up when you start talking about workforce housing.

We have about 30% of our people have jobs right now. And some of them have actually fairly good paying jobs. They just can't find a place to live. We have other people who have disabilities

and they need they need uh uh they need benefit income and they they will they will not have a job but they will have an income. And so the question is are we going to always keep them in the pallet village or are we going to provide a place for them to move next that they can afford to live. So uh so in a nutshell um we read the zoning uh and we're encouraged. We think it's an excellent excellent approach. It is consistent with our idea of a continuum of from moving from the worst possible condition in the woods into a managed environment in the pallet village and then into a permanent living arrangement. They'll sign a lease. It'll be a fully equipped uh unit. U and it the other thing is our partner is going to be Great Outdoor Cottages. The representative is here tonight. These will be manufactured right here in Georgetown uh as a 400 foot cottage. Now, I think there was a question also about the county codes because as I understand it, the the county actually reviews the housing codes to make sure you're compliant. The county has approved the international residential code. There is currently little in there about tiny homes and what and if they have adopted an amendment, it basically specifies loss. You know, it is not a full good spec on tiny homes. There is an amendment being written by the code committee. I don't know the schedule of when it will be approved. And of course, it'll have to be adopted, but it will address and I think it's going to be fairly consistent with with that with the size requirements that's in this

code here.

Mr. Malone, you mentioned that the project you're considering um would be a a land lease situation, if I heard you correctly. Do you'd lease the land to one entity? Okay. Um, to my knowledge, the town of Georgetown has no um requirements or restrictions on how a leased lot um uh fee can be raised. Um, the only thing that I know of is the state has a regulation regarding mobile home communities and the the lease of a lot. So again going to the affordability aspect. Okay. Uh the concern I again I'll voice a concern over anything that's a least lot because I think the homeowner eventually is the one who pays a very dear price. And I personally if I paid the money to put a home on a leased lot I would need some real solid you know. So, so

requirements that I could continue to afford it. There are multi-million dollar homes on lease lots.

I fully understand that. I fully understand that. But again, I'm going to go back to again my knowledge is the town of Georgetown doesn't regulate leases on on properties other than the state requirements. without trying to write a regulation thing. I can tell you what our approach is going to be because it's easy to get I mean the whole idea of land lease it might be a mobile home park you know and those don't necessarily have the best track record you know being affordable or being fair the the ground rents tend to be absorbent uh that's one example the other example is um what pots net and those kind of places the other is a is a community land trust and a community land trust. Same idea. There is a land trust. It holds the land in perpetuity in practicality. And the terms of that title contain covenants and language that says regardless of what the town's regulations are, whatever we prescribe as our goal for long-term affordability, it will be written into the land deed. So it's not going to be subject to a whim. It's there and it it it it forms the basis for the relationship not with individual lot owners but with an entity that will operate 14 acres of land and build on it that cottage community and operate it and collect the rents and maintain the property, do all the, you know, you know, the things that an HOA would do to make sure it's all maintained. But the the the the lease is going to be a nominal lease because as a nonprofit owner of the land, our objective is to preserve affordability,

not to raise a whole lot of money on a land rent. Long-winded answer. I hope you hope it satisfied.

Thank you. Anybody else like to speak? again, Jacqueline Sturbach with What is Your Voice? Um, I understand what he's saying. Um, I also understand about the U SRAP and how that's been moving um uh throughout the the state and all all that funding. And what this is, this is my understanding of everything I have heard. This is the second time I've heard his presentation and that's why I'm here today to support it because uh if the entity that the land would be put in a trust or or something that it could not be changed could not be sold out from under anybody. It is allocated to function the way that it's functioning sort of like a conditional use and you can't change that unless you come back down to Georgetown and petition for all of that. I've been through that myself. Um, and then the controls are so tight that nobody can just do what they want. And I understand what he's saying. And so kind of look at it as a conditional use for the property that he's talking about. And that will give you control to make sure that it's warranted and used the way that it needs to be used. Um, also um again um we will uh support um give counseling, give services. We are affiliated with the Delaware Food Bank. We're an affiliate actually for the V food bank. Um also we're community partners with uh BB mobile care. Um they come in and serve everybody in our community and we will move with them and serve these communities uh of of your choice. And I just want to make that commitment today u because if we don't community partners need not to overlap.

What they need to do is come together and some are strong in this area of provision, some are in this area position, some are in another area, but when we all come together, every need is being met in one place. And that's the most important thing about ourus and our community partnerships that uh I look for. Uh something that is um integrity and something that would speak permanent change within Sussexus County which is the heart of where we serve. Thank you so much.

Oh gosh. Quick answer on the vouchers. First of all, they they are a contract between the land the the the comm the the property owner and the state housing authority. They issue a contract and they tend to run for 10 years. Okay.

The tenant. All right. Tennessee, the unit remains part of a of a public housing voucher contract. The ten as long as a tenant follows lease terms, the funding continues and the contract is enforced and renewed if needed. Um, so essentially there's not a short term. It can be quite long. covering everything but the gap that's important in the gap.

Hello, I'll I'll be brief. I'm Matt Broad. I'm the CEO of Great Outdoor Cottages up the street here. Um we're an employer of 110 people in Sussex County currently. Um and we build houses. We ship them from Maine to Key West, out to California, all over. And it's really exciting that we're doing a project here in Georgetown. Um, I work with the Maryland Governor's Office and the Governor's Office of Delaware and uh a bunch of other elected officials because we we build a lot of uh vacation style homes, right? They're going to resorts and RV parks and other places. Um, but this is a bigger deal. Um, I have employees. I have one employee that commutes from New Jersey, literally from New Jersey every day. And he came and sat in my office and he said, "Can you help me? I need a place to live." And you know, we build houses every day. We built two a day, right? He's watching two houses get shipped every day and he can't have one, right? He can afford it, but the problem is he can't put it anywhere. And that's the biggest problem we run into. And again, I work with with legislators and and local bodies and all over the place. And I think it was telling in the presentation that the two examples they gave were in Washington state and Colorado. And what that tells you is that there's no great examples around here of people doing this. And I really applaud the the town for for taking this step. And I haven't gotten in the weeds and I apologize for my ignorance on that on this specific ordinance, but as a as a a theory, I think it's really important. And I think Georgetown can really be a thought leader and say, "Look, we're doing it right." I listen to governors and elected officials all the time talk about we need affordable housing. Maryland talks about all the time 125,000 housing units short and we hear a lot of talking, but nobody's actually doing anything. And so I just wanted to take a quick moment and say thank you for actually taking a step. And again,

is this exactly the right way to do it? I'm not going to speak on that just because I'm I'm not educated enough on this specific zoning ordinance, but from what I understand of it, it's certainly a step in the right direction. At least gives us some pathway to actually do this. You know, a great example is in uh Poke City. I have a dear friend of mine as a large employer in Pok City and we talked about doing a development there. The smallest house you can build in Po City is 900 square feet. Why? I don't know. They wrote it a long time ago. And so we went to the the city and said, you know, can we do a community of 550 square foot homes, two-bedroom, one bath, you know, nice nice attractive houses along the river? And basically, they said no. I said, our our zoning says 900 ft. That's what you get. And um you know, we kind of ran into a brick wall there. So again, I just wanted to say I support um the ordinance. And again, I don't not as written just because I'm not as as educated on that. But I I really think it's a great step in the right direction because for my folks, you know, and for the people that work at the hospitals and the teachers and, you know, a lot of the the people that work and live in this community, you know, I have people that live in in Delmare and in uh up in Newcast County and all over the place, and to be able to have them local in Georgetown would really be a great step in the right direction. So, I want to say thank you very much and and uh I look forward to continued discussion.

Thanks. Thank you. Oh, she question. Sorry. Okay.

Hello everybody. Uh my name is Anne Cook. I'm a recent Delaware resident. I'm retired Air Force and after that I did 15 years working with to end uh veteran homelessness. Um, and I can't agree uh more with the gentleman that just spoke. I can't remember your name, but um farfly I recently I was in I I my most recent position I was in Oakland, California, and California is really struggling to end homelessness. You may have heard about that. Um, and having a creative community that's looking for ways to fill in the gaps in your housing and having successes that other people can build on and have confidence that they can also do the same is act is critical to ending this problem because big government I was working for the VA. Excuse me. I was a project based social worker. I then went on to be the program manager managing project, you know, tenant based vouchers, uh, project based vouchers. we needed something else to end homelessness and this is the kind of thing we needed. So, whatever you can do to support something like this and then the pressure is on guys because make it pretty and keep it pretty or we're not going to get more. So, uh yeah, I think I think it's a really great thing and I really want to say I support it. So, that's it.

Thank you. Anybody else would like to speak in favor or against the application? Okay. Is there someone on the No, looks like No, I don't think there's anyone on.

Uh before the before we decide to move, just consider that you as the planning commission are able to um attach possible edits or recommendations to council. Um you don't just need to do approve deny table. Um you can suggest a direction or improve um improvements or changes as a part of your motion. I mean I personally would like to see some you know conditions in in this ordinance that guides us towards a true workforce housing you know project

not a transitional housing project. I agree.

I would like to see a project that is for people that are working that you know can't afford. I understand you know you know $2,000 to rent an apartment is is ridiculous. I understand that. I I would like to help those people. I just don't think Georgetown needs to be the town in Sussex County that solves all homeless issues for the state. And I think without some sort of you know I stipulation that you know this is a workforce project not a transitional project then it's going to be a transitional housing project.

I support that. individuals that will be working that that's what I want to see that but there's there's nothing in our ordinance that says that. Would you recommend a um like an intent statement or something specific in terms of how to accomplish that or or or is that just a message to that you would send to council? Um I that's I don't know how to write that into the audience, but that would love that to be to you know the intent.

I mean you can pass a recommendation that stipulates that as a message um to council that you know you can basically send a a report basically that says something to that effect. Um um as well as you know a recommendation or not recommendation. Um but in in any case, this is sort of the opportunity to state your um your feelings to to council um before it goes to their public hearing. So, can we put that as a mission to conclude that? Yes.

My turn. Um, and notwithstanding what I've heard about both communities this evening, I think the ordinance is going to apply well beyond these two, um, communities that we've heard about tonight. I think you've also heard me say more than once, um, the term leasable lot, uh, I think is a recipe for disaster. And I'd recommend to council that leasable lots be removed from the ordinance. Okay. Did you have something else?

No, just um I just want to make sure that what are parameters can keep it as a workforce community. We you know I'm understand that.

All right. Let me know this meet your approval. Okay. Um, I was going to make a motion to the town council to the town council to approve the proposed amendments to article uh six and UR1 urban residential district 230-25 permitted uses of the Georgetown zoning code and to article 8 area layout 194-36 lots of the Georgetown subdivision ordinance with the following changes. We would like to have it so it represents the workforce and we would like to have the leasable lots removed.

That workforce. That sound good. Okay. Got a motion. Is there a second? I'll second the motion. Okay. Roll call vote. Commissioner Allen. Yes. Commissioner Roach. Yes. Commissioner Leates. Yes. And I'm a yes as well with those conditions of workforce housing um and removing the leaseable lots. Thank you. Okay. So, unfortunately, we are not done.

Start now. All right. Okay. That's so Yeah. So, the Yes. Um, public hearing is closed. We're moving on to item number four, historic review for case number 2025-13, Cesus County Superior Court improvements, an application by the state of Delaware for historic review and approval of an approximate 3,742 foot addition to the building located at one the circle. Thank you.

All righty. Uh, good evening. My name is Vincent Saratella. I'm project architect with Manswood Studios and we are in the late design phases for um various renovations and additions to the courthouse across the street. um that are focused on addressing security of the building, safety of court staff, safety of corrections officers, safety of detainees, um better accommodations of the rights afforded to the detainees and their conversations with their protected conversations with their attorneys. um and uh just general improvements to the building to accommodate those services. Um as far as a historic preservation goes, what we are planning and in the packets that I handed out, I have another one for you, sir, if you need another.

Uh the first page of the pack, the first three pages of the packets are renderings of what the additions will look like. uh it would have to be done in multiple phases based on keeping the building occupied and secure for both again public and detainee movement throughout the building for court activities. So the first page is a rendering of the front entrance that would be visible in the daylight through the window.

Um essentially what we're doing is we're taking the little white applique and we're extending it to create a more secure vestibule. So, it'll have a ballistic rated glazing for some increased security um and create a more secure vestibule. It's been coordinated on the interior with the folks that run the security the sheriffs or the baiffs or the folks that run the security of the building for the main public entrance. It also includes um an improved accessibility ramp that we're hoping with that and the way in and out of the building will help to alleviate some of the congestion that it tends to accumulate on Market Street during um you know when they open for the day. Uh the jury entrance would still be in the rear. Uh the second page is um new addition that would accommodate four more holding cells for folks awaiting trial. They're brought there by the sheriff's office or the department of corrections for trials. This is not a overnight facility. Um and it's providing a new secure um sallyport for detainee uh transfers in and out of their the the the vans that bring them from from the jail. Uh and then above it has um open office space to be uh for judges chambers. And then the third page is the rendering um that is on on the left of the rendering is the oldest part of the historic courthouse and it's on just on the other side of that. So it's somewhat visible from the from the circle but set way back near the face of the building. And that is to accommodate on the again on the interior private interview spaces. um for between the attorney and the detainee um that has a separation. So, it's more

secure for detainee safety. It's more uh private for the protected conversation between the the detainee and their attorney. And as such is creating a new um jury room for deliberation with new uh accessible restrooms. And again, the second floor would be expanded uh judges chambers. Um and then the third and fourth page or the fourth and fifth pages are some Google Earth photos. I apologize I've stapled one upside down um of the existing entrance and the existing rear of the building um from where the new family court is installed. Um uh there's also included a site plan that illustrates where the three areas of work are from the main entrance, the sallyport in the rear near the parking lot and this uh called jury room and interview room spaces. Um and the technical drawings with the the the the technical drawings with the elevations for it. Um a bit of background on myself. Uh I'm an architect. I for the early excuse me early part of my career I did a lot of historic preservation in Oldtown Frederick in Maryland and in other communities like that. So that's part of the reason they assigned me to the project. So we're using um I think either Pella or Weather Shield has detailing that's very similar to what's on the building for the windows. We've sent brick specialists out from PTOIC Valley Brick to come and give me a specification that's going to closely match the existing brick and we're matching the existing detailing as we can observe from the building and from the limited amount of documentation that we were provided by the state um on the existing construction of the building. So that's my quick elevator pitch on it.

Questions, comments? Actually, I have one okay suggestion. Yes. Um, the section of the building, the new section of building that faces the circle. Yes. So, the upper floor has four windows, bottom floor has two windows. Correct. Possible to blank out those bottom two windows like we see on this side of the building. So, looks like there were windows there. Yes, there we can do that. We can do like the recess and inset with the the keystone arch like in your picture where you show the side of the courthouse today. Yes. Yeah. This section here.

Yeah, we can certainly do that. Um when we were working through the design, there are areas of the building in that corner that don't have that detailing specifically where the jail cells are. Right. But we can certainly do that here. Yeah. Just that section that you know that you're No, we understand. We've tried to position all of the new mechanical equipment out of sight. We're doing a lot of stuff in the attic. We're doing a new um small We're doing like an overgrown residential style HVAC system because the building is maxed out. So, we're adding some new systems and that's positioned around in the parking lot. So, everything is minimizing visibility from the circle, right? So, but we can certainly do that.

Blank windows on the bottom section. Yes. Ready? Yep. Unless I can make a motion to approve application for historic district site plan with the um following condition that you will address the windows in the rear of the window in the rear of the building as requested. Certainly the project is currently we've submitted our 99% documents to the state for their review. We'll just in incorporate that into the comment and response before we submit our 100% documentation to go to uh bidding and ultimately permitting and construction. And we have a motion. Is there a second? A second. Motion second. We'll take a roll call vote. Commissioner Ellen,

yes. Commissioner Roach, yes. Commissioner Leates, yes. And I'm a yes as well. Thank you for Thank you very much for your time this evening and have a good night. Um, we I've not worked with Georgetown before. Will you guys send out a letter with the formal approval? Yes. Yes, I can do that. And that'll probably go to my civil engineer who's the actual applicant. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. So next item up for discussion is minor varian var v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v variation determination says county texts parcel 135-15.13-16 and 135-15.13-17 proposed by the town of Georgetown to determine if the comprehensive plan map amendment can be classified as a minor variation. Properties are located at 501 and 503 East Market Street um at those tax parcels. So, this is a continuation of sort of our prior conversation. This is the property on Market Street that would house the project by um the nonprofit I forget their name, but Little Living. Yes, exactly. Yes. So, here I am again. Um,

okay.

So, the proposal, so this is um a proposal that Georgetown, the town of Georgetown is is is pursuing um as opposed to an applicant doing this part. Um so, basically, we're asking uh you all tonight to render a verdict on whether these changes would constitute a minor variation to the comprehensive plan. Um, and the two changes would be the future land use map amendment which would change 501 and 503 East Market Street to from commercial to single family residential and then change the zoning map from highway commercial to UR1 urban residential for this for the purpose of uh um developing the cottage homes that we discussed. Uh so quickly here's an overview of the area. So, it's again 501 and 503 right next to each other there at the corner of um East Market Street and Parson Lane here. Um you can see it's I'll be be going over this a bit, but it's it's surrounded by many different types of land uses. Um overall, here's a closer up version. As you can see, it's it's

it's clearly a vacant site um right now that is zoned highway commercial presently. Um only six other parcels or I'm sorry four other parcels in the immediate vicinity are zone specifically highway commercial um the ones that are are the um the substation site the Delmar power and light building up there and then uh three other parcels which I will go over um briefly. So here's just an overview of the future land use of the immediia vicinity. As you can see there, um the commercial feature land use is analogous to the highway commercial zoning. Um so you see that's the dark red there and business which is your um UB1, UB2, UB3 zoning. Um that's in the pink. Um these are typically uses that also uh zoning districts that also allow residential types of uses as well. Um and then the yellow is your single family residential which is pretty much the entire rest of um East Market Street going east um towards Sand Hill Road. Um and then there's some other business um land use on the other side as well. But as we'll see the actual existing land use is largely residential in nature. Um so here's the zoning map as I mentioned. So again the pink is highway commercial. Um the other uses that are around here again are the substation, um the gas station right here at the corner, uh the uh small shopping center that has the Dollar Tree and the Little Caesars in it. Um and then this um former auto body shop that was uh that's also Highway Commercial that's vacant um presently right now. So you can here's a closeup of what 501 looks like if you if you passed it recently. They were doing some sampling um because this is a um a brownfield site presently which does have some

contamination gas station, wasn't it? The gas station's across the street. Across the street. Well, there's there was one there and then the Dairy Queen was next to it. We got it. Right. Right. Right. Yes. Yes.

Uh so yes. Um yes. So again, if you if you drove past recently, you probably saw some some rigs up there that were actually doing some sampling. Um, so that that's a closeup of what the substation looks like. It's a 9 acre site. Um, it's the largest highway commercial property in the vicinity and it's practically not developable anymore because there's a substation there. Um, so we won't see any real activity there if ever. Um, you know, then for the foreseeable future. again the Sitco right there and then the it's convenience store. You can also see the um the former auto body shop over there. Um and then the closeup of um the Georgetown Square Shopping Center. Um overall it's a it's a it's not a cohesive um shopping or highway commercial district. Um these are all developed at different times in different styles. Um and three of them, you know, don't actually yes, at least three of them don't have an active use on them anymore. Um so we would argue that um that these two parcels are ripe for um residential development. And so first of course I'll go through the criteria to determine whether this would be a minor variation or not. First criterion is the reasoning is of a unique circumstance that would not set precedent for other lands in the vicinity of the resoning. As I mentioned, these sort of six parcels don't really work together um presently as a as a a con a comprehensive highway commercial district. Um the comprehensive plan recommends that you have access ways um that go between different parcels that would be very difficult um to actually enable commercial u future commercial development on this property. Uh and it does also comprehensive plan also recommends that there's significant landscaping and buffering from residential uses which again would be

very difficult to accomplish um in the current scenario that that's happening right now. Um so and because we don't think it would necessarily set precedent for any other lands in here because they're all unique to each other. It's not like we're picking out um 10 identical highway commercial properties and just picking one to to change residential. This would be um we we believe this would be in keeping with the general um character of East Market Street in this area. Um as I mentioned before, the almost the entirety of of East Market Street here is is residential. Um and even some of the business um uses that are or business properties that are on East Market Street to the south um are actually residential presently. Um in reality there's only a couple office types of uses there similar um going west on East Market Street as well. Uh the relative size of the resoning or variation from the land use comp recommended by the comprehensive plan is so minor that it would have no impact on the goals and objectives of the comprehensive plan. The two properties together equal about an acre. Um, and as you can tell, it's it's relatively um we would argue that it's it's relatively um minimal um the change. We're not changing a very large property um in the grand scheme of things to a different use. Um and actually because um we're making it more in line with the majority of East Market Street that actually it would be um it would become in greater conformance with the comprehensive plan rather than out of conformance with the comprehensive plan. Um and lastly the third criterion that you would judge uh as to whether it was a minor variation or not is that the proposed zoning is adjacent to or in the immediate vicinity of other similarly zoned lands and would not alter the pattern of development in the area. So

again, as you can clearly see, the green there is the UR1, which is the zoning district that we would propose to um reszone these two properties here. So we believe again it is uh relatively in line with the existing development um scheme um on East Market Street um presently. So, in some we're requesting the planning commission consider determining um the change of 501 and 503 East Market Street, uh from commercial to single family residential and from highway commercial to UR1 urban residential, a minor variation from the town of Georgetown comprehensive plan. Um and remember this is only that um the actual um application to change to um actually change the zoning would be at a future meeting. um we would still um send this to the office of state planning coordination for their concurrence.

So who owns these parcels? Um a gentleman by the name of uh Greg Johnson who is um who's actually planning on donating the parcels to um the um

why is the town the applicant here not the property owner? Um, the town is the applicant in this case because it is a um we believe it's in the best interest of the the comprehensive plan to um to change this residential and um yes questions. I mean so I totally agree that this is a minor variation. So step one, I'm I'm there. Are there con conceptual plans for this project? Because I'm not seeing this in my mind as something that I would like to see on Market Street. I mean, that's so I know we're that's down the line and we'll we'll get to that, but like you know, this ordinance, you know, has the houses facing each other, not the street. So is that does that mean these houses are we're going to be seeing the rear of a bunch of houses on Market Street or

No, I I would keep the two separate. So when we did the comprehensive plan in um 2021, I remember we had extensive discussion on these two parcels. Obviously Delm Marvis substation is not going to go anywhere, right? Um the opposite side um years ago we did work when we were doing our downtown development district is um for mixed use commercial on the first floor and residential on the second. So that makes sense to keep this highway commercial. These two small parcels keeping that side of the road all uniform with the urban residential makes the most sense. Yeah, I I agree.

Um I'm just you know like I said tonight I'm I I support tonight. I just have questions for the future. And we did learn when we were um up at the state planning office for the um initial review of the newly coming state strategies for spending that we were the only town that was doing minor variations through the property owner. All the other towns with the town. Okay. So they said you don't have to get the property owner to do it. So we said this would make Yeah, I think for me seeing that picture of the washings and and the it's hard for me to picture here. I think that's

Yeah. So, and you know, we we did see a a very sketchy sketch from them and it did it did not comply with our with our so um I don't think they had one in time to to and the you know their what they have on their website doesn't fit sizewise with within our ordinance. So, Right. Yeah. And I think um I believe their plan again not really I don't intend to speak for them um but to to relay what we have learned is that um that some would be fronting on on East Park Street and um but but not all. So

just a general comment on on question. So part of the struggle is and we we shared this with them at our first meeting. government will never move at the pace somebody else wants us to. And um they did the designs of the homes before we even met with them and that necessitated a time to go to the county. They came with their vision. We didn't even have an ordinance and so that has been what has been the whole process and that's why we reported back at the last council meeting.

That's why we're coming here and then we're going to modify based on what we heard tonight which is all great input and we'll put it all in there. Yeah. Any other questions? If not, is there a motion? [Laughter] Uh, yeah. I'll make a motion to approve the request to determine this comprehensive plan amendment application, a minor variation as presented. I have a motion. Is there a second? A second. I'm sorry. Um, which did you ask if there's any public comment? Oh, no. This is not this is not a public hearing. Oh, okay. So, we we'll take a roll call vote. Commissioner Allen, yes. Commissioner Roach,

yes. Commissioner Leates, yes. I meant yes. As well, like I said, and it's definitely in keeping with the the surrounding property. So, this part of the process I support. All right. So, public comment. Any other public comments this evening? Okay. Um, I do have public comment.

Okay. Just want to I want to say thank you. Um, it's a thankless job, but I do appreciate your great questions this evening. Um, I will tell you that Georgetown is recognized as one of the leaders in trying things that at least if they don't work, we're willing to fix it. And um, I think that's evidence the when we defeated the accessory dwelling unit bill for the second year, instead of trying to fight the municipalities, the uh general assembly set money aside through the Delaware State Housing Authority for um communities to work with DSHA to come up with creative solutions for their communities. So, we'll be applying for that. But this is just another tool in our toolbox. But thank you and appreciate all the wonderful comments this evening.

Thank you.

Community development report. I feel like you've probably heard enough from me tonight, but uh um though I will draw your attention to our website. Um I mentioned last month that we are starting the downtown development district update um as is required because it's expiring after 10 years. So we are engaging on a public um process in order to update the plan that's associated with the district and then to actually apply to renew the district uh to the state for an additional five-year term. Um the downtown development district is very um important to um the success of um our downtown and that it provides various incentives to property owners um and developers. Uh I do want to call your attention to this little button that's now on our website here. If you go to georgetowndell.com and here's the general home site here. If you scroll down here, there's a little button that says Georgetown engage. This is a um this will lead you to our what we call our Georgetown Engage site. It's also um it's brought to you by Zen City, which is a a software company that does public uh digital engagement um and helps towns like us um do a lot of um project um updates and um put out surveys and other types of feedback and give updates to everyone. Um so you'll see here this is just lines outline some of our projects. this you can click this project to read about the downtown development district process and actually we have two different opportunities to engage right now uh we have a survey um in English and in Spanish actually so um uh for people to to take um it'll take about 10 minutes it'll ask you about your vision for the downtown um and so if you if you click this you can also get to those

engagements and this gives you a general idea of what we're doing a timeline uh also project updates about what we're doing and um and you can even sign up to receive notifications uh about just this project or um any project that we uh launch through this service. Um so one of the way you one of the things that we'll probably do in the next number of months is um launch a um you know a project about the five-year update to the comprehensive plan. So they they'll have some public aspect to that as well. So um so yeah, this is an opportunity to again sort of find updates on a single site um also to again sort of gather input throughout the process as well.

Yeah. Will the um areas stay the same for the downtown development or will be it moving or you're concentrating on or Well, we imagine um expanding it and sort of contracting it in certain other places. So some Yeah. Yeah. So it'll it will probably change like in an ammo amoeba you know so parts of it will will leave some up that we need to move to others that we Exactly. Ex you know the family court building for instance is is in the DDD which it doesn't need to be anymore because they can't take advantage of it. So, so yes. So, part of it, you know, I guess I tentatively see it sort of moving slightly more east. U maybe taking up some other properties that haven't yet been redeveloped yet. So, um

you get a lot of investors because of that.

Yes. No, definitely. Um so, yeah, we do plan on attending the um Wings and Wheels um uh event um and we'll have a table there and get to talk to people um about their experience and their get get their input. We'll also have a meeting um in town hall sometime in midocctober um specifically geared towards business owners or other um people who work um on in the downtown but also open to anyone um uh to get their experience using you know working and having a business in Georgetown you know what can we improve have they used the downtown development district incentives um and things like that so so yeah I I look I I hope you all uh can log go on here and take a survey and share it with your friends and family. Um, so we need all the input we can get.

Um, but that's the major that's a major thing that's happening. So, yes. When is our five-year update due? Uh, so we need to have it submitted by February. Um, we hope to get it in a little sooner so we get some feedback. Are we engaging a third party to assist with that or are we done?

We are. Yes, that's that's a yes, good point. So yes, we did employ um Wallace Montgomery and Associates uh which is a planning and engineering firm to do to help us with that. So actually I've been inter I've been interviewing with them um a lot of stakeholders um in the area who um providing a lot of good input. So um but yes, we'll continue doing stakeholder interviews again. We'll be showing up at an event, holding an event and then getting surveys. Um they will particularly be interested in people who have already used the downtown development district incentives to to get feedback on how it worked for them. Um so like the Wagamond building, you know, the Jon Jones, we'll talk to him and some other people as well. So

Okay, good. Any questions for Brian? I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second. A second. All in favor? I I thank you everyone. Thank you.