Planning Commission - public_hearing

Good evening. Welcome to the August 19th meeting of the Georgetown Planning Commission. First order of business is approval of minutes from July 15th. Do I hear a motion to approve?

So moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Motion carried. Our next order of business is a public hearing, case number 2026-11, an application by CW Property Investments LLC for a petition of annexation into the corporate limits of the town of Georgetown and for an amendment to the town of Georgetown zoning map to zone the property to highway commercial. properties located at two zero two zero zero and two zero two two four dupont boulevard located in the potential annexation area with future land use designations as commercial applicant like to take the podium

Thank you, and good evening. For the record, my name's Mark Davidson. I'm a principal land planner with Pannoni Associates. I'm appearing tonight on behalf of CW Property Investments LLC, who's the applicant for the Tower Square's petition. With me tonight are the applicants and the owners of that property, Mr. and Mrs. Hall. And then also with me is Alan Decker. He's a professional engineer with Pannoni Associates. I know about a month ago I came in and I made the introduction of this application. Tonight I'll go ahead and make a record for this public hearing. The matter before the commission this evening is case number 202611. The applicant respectfully requests annexation of approximately 55.24 acres into the corporate limits of the town of Georgetown, and upon annexation, an amendment to the town of Georgetown zoning map to designate the property highway commercial. So our request for this annexation or for the properties as it was introduced, located on 2020-0 and 2022-4, DuPont Boulevard. It identifies as tax parcels 135-14, parcels 32 and 32.01. So we're asking for this to be annexed into the corporate limits of the town of Georgetown. The petition also requests that upon annexation subject to the town's required ordinance and zoning map amendment process, the properties be designated highway commercial on the town of Georgetown zoning map. This highway commercial designation is appropriate because the properties are within the town's potential annexation area and carry a full future land use map designation of commercial. Accordingly, the request of municipal zoning designation implements the town's adopted land use policy for this area rather than introducing an inconsistent zoning classification. The annexation request is further supported by 22 Delaware C, Section 101, which requires municipal annexations to be consistent with the municipality's most recently adopted comprehensive plan, depicted as areas for future annexation on the adopted plan and contiguous with existing municipal boundaries. The Delaware Office of State Planning Coordination similarly recognizes that annexed lands must be rezoned by ordinance to classifications consistent within the adopted comprehensive plan or development strategy. Here the parcels are identified within the penitential annexation area, are planned for commercial future land use, and therefore may properly be brought into the town and zoned highway commercial as the corresponding municipal zoning classification. This request is consistent with the plan Georgetown's long range planning framework, which encourages orderly growth, coordinated extension of town services, consistency between the comprehensive plan and zoning map, and compatible annexations at the town's borders. The requested highway commercial zoning designation is the appropriate zoning classification as the property is annexed into the town because the town's future land use map designates the area for commercial land use. Again, the town's future land use map identifies this area for commercial land use. That designation provides the planning and legal basis for assigning highway commercial zoning at the time of annexation. In practical terms, the highway commercial designation aligns the property's town zoning with the town's adopted land use policy and places future commercial development under the town's municipal zoning, site plan, utility, infrastructure, and public safety review processes. The properties are within the Georgetown's designated potential annexation area. Annexation at this location represents a logical and orderly extension of the town's corporate limits because the parcels are contiguous to the town, are located along an established commercial corridor and are designated for future commercial growth. Bringing the properties into the town allows Georgetown to guide future development through its municipal zoning, site plan, infrastructure, utility and public hearing processes. As confirmed in the applicant's response letter to the town, the annexation petition is not a preliminary site plan review and detailed design standards, utility allocation, parking design permitting, and transportation mitigation will be addressed through the subsequent development review process following any annexation approval. For purposes of tonight's presentation, The legal issue is whether the property is appropriate for annexation and initial municipal zoning. Under Delaware law and the town's planning framework, the answer is yes. The property lies within the potential annexation area, carries the commercial future land use designation, and is appropriately proposed for highway commercial zoning upon annexation. The existing county zoning AR1 and C1 upon annexation. So the existing Sussex County zoning is currently AR1 and C1 as it sits today. Upon annexation, those county zoning classifications will no longer control the municipal zoning designation. The applicant is therefore requesting that the town apply the highway commercial zoning as the initial town zoning classification because highway commercial directly corresponds to the town's future land use map. and as well as the business-oriented character along dupont boulevard the annexation petition includes both sussex county parcels 32 and 3201 the total annexation area consists of approximately 55.24 acres comprising approximately of the main parcel being 45.23 acres for the for the main parcel and approximately 10.01 acres for parcel a So we showed this the last time we were here. Slide 8 presents a conceptual highway commercial development program and parking layout shown on the PowerPoint. This is including retail, ice rink, garage storage, and flex space components with a conceptual total of 1,199 parking spaces on this particular plan. The 10 acres right now is shown vacant because that's going to be left for future development and for something that could possibly complement the shopping center. At this point, at this time, the Halls did not have anything planned for that 10 acres, so that's why it was subdivided out and sitting vacant. But the shopping center, the ice rink, and the flex warehouses space, and also Mr. Hall's parent business, Straight Line Solutions, will also be located on this property, so it will be owner-occupied at that particular time within this property. So this project will extend the water and sanitary sewer to the property, which this property is actually located on the northernmost end of the annexation area for the town on your future land use map. but the requirements of the town of Georgetown will require us to be able to, we're gonna bring sewer up from south of this site up to this property, and then we'll stub it at the very northern end of this property. So water and sewer responsibilities will be borne by the applicant, but will benefit the town of Georgetown, and will be turned over to the town of Georgetown once constructed. The proposed flex commercial buildings are envisioned as adaptable commercial structures capable of accommodating a variety of highway commercial compatible uses. Potential tenants may include contractor and service related businesses like warehouse operations, showroom space, business services, office users, commercial storage, and similar low impact commercial activities. The ultimate tenant mix will be determined by market demand and future leasing activity. and any specific tenant occupancy will remain subject to local town zoning, site plan, parking, utility, fire marshal, and building code requirements. I think I presented last time that right now we don't have an actual EDU count for the wastewater system because that'll be determined during the final designs of these buildings. We can come up with an approximate determination for EDU, but the pump station that we're going to be designing will be for a maximum build out of this site. We'll look at worst case scenarios because we don't want to limit the growth. of this commercial property. We don't want to limit. We don't want to design a shopping center and tell future tenants that they can't be here because we have a limitation on pump station, waste water and fire demand and things like that. So all that will be factored in. We'll continue to work with the town of Georgetown and their engineers as we keep moving through this process of providing water and sewer to the site. As I mentioned last time, we are still in the middle of doing our traffic impact study. I think I stated that we're analyzing 19 intersections up and down this corridor here. Even in the, some of those intersections involve some of the back roads. So as you go north and you take the first right, I can't, that road escapes my mind, but we're analyzing intersections on those roads as well. So there was 19 intersections that were identified traffic impact study. We've gotten through the preliminary stage and we're at the final stage where we're making, we're providing our recommendations for improvements along this corridor and then we'll be addressing anything DelDOT has for traffic measures based on the traffic demand coming out of this proposed shopping center. The annexation and zoning map amendment would establish the municipal jurisdiction and zoning framework under which future detailed reviews will occur. Future development will remain subject to town site plan approval, town engineer review, utility design, much of the things that I just previously spoke about. DelDOT will have their review. Sussex Conservation District, we do have a tax ditch. There's quite a few tax ditches on this property, so we're not looking to move any of those tax ditches. We're going to work within the tax ditch program. We are going to work with DENARAC. We are going to look at maintenance easements. We're going to shift some of the maintenance easements around so it's easier to maintain these ditches in the future. So we're not going to alter any types of off-site drainage flows through this property. So that will be one of the permitting processes that we'll end up having to do. And that will be done through the site planning of this particular site. So for all these reasons that I've mentioned with all the information that we've submitted as a part of this, the applicant respectfully submits that the Tower Square petition represents a logical, orderly, and legally supportable annexation into the town of Georgetown. The request is consistent with Delaware annexation requirements, the town's potential annexation area, the commercial future land use map designation, and the appropriate initial municipal zoning designation of highway commercial subject to the town's required ordinance and zoning map amendment process. The applicant has provided supplemental information responsive to the town's July 6, 2026 review comments and remains committed to working cooperatively with the town staff, the planning commission, town council, DELDOT, the town engineer, and all applicable review agencies during subsequent development review. The applicant respectfully requests that the Planning Commission recommend approval of the petition of the annexation and the zoning map amendment to highway commercial to the mayor and town council. We appreciate your time. And that's all I have. And I'll answer any questions you have.

Questions from the commission?

I'm going to make a motion.

Not yet. It's public hearing.

You mentioned that your plan would be to design a pump station or design the pump stations to enable what the max build out theoretically could be. Do you know sort of in the general vicinity of what that would look like in terms of capacity?

Not really because right now with the ice rink under development right now, we don't know. We don't know about the number of bathrooms. There's going to be locker rooms. There's going to be a concession inside. I think it's planning to approximately be about 1,000 seat ice rink. So they're going to be able to hold tournaments there and games and things. So there's going to be things in there that we don't know about just yet. We're working on those aspects. But I think what you're going to be looking at so that other properties will be able to tie to it in the future You're looking at more of a regional pump station. I know the town doesn't want to be in the pump station business, just like all the other utilities and companies that operate wastewater. So having one central pump station located on this property that will feed multiple properties in the future, how they connect to it, that all has to be determined. But that will be based on other properties wanting to annex into the town and other connections at this point but we are planning for as we bring it down the up the highway i should say north we're planning on those properties that aren't annexed into the town or possibly are annexed in that don't currently have sanitary sewer they'll have the ability to tie into that and then you know be able to get rid of their septic systems on site

okay this is a public hearing is there anybody that wishes to speak in favor of the applicant wishes to speak against the applicant and did we have anybody online Okay. If they'd like to speak, they can raise their hand. Has this town received any written correspondence?

No, we have not received any written comments or response, yea or nay.

Okay. All right. If there are no other questions for the applicant, I'll entertain a motion.

I can make a motion to recommend that the town council approve the petition of the annexation into the corporate limits of the town of Georgetown And to amend the town of Georgetown zoning map to zone these two parcels, totaling 55.1 plus or minus acres to highway commercial status.

That's presented.

And my reason for that is this would be a great benefit to our town. I appreciate you putting money into this area. And the X-Rink will be nice.

I have a motion. Is there a second?

I second.

Okay. I have a motion and a second. We'll take a roll call vote. Commissioner Weaver?

Yes.

Commissioner Allen? Yes. Commissioner Roach? Yes. Commissioner LaCase? Yes. And I'm a yes as well. I'm excited to see the project move forward. Thank you. Okay. Our next order of business is the concept and preliminary plan review, case number 2026-02, Isaacs Farm Commercial Subdivision. An applicant by 79 Georgetown LLC for combined concept and preliminary subdivision plan review and approval for a six lot commercial subdivision properties located north of the intersection of briley way and finley avenue on the west side of dupont boulevard zoom multi-family residential and highway commercial applicant like to okay i guess can we get the presentation up thanks brian

My name is Jonathan Richard with Becker Morgan Group and I'm here on behalf of 79 Georgetown LLC, or G-town LLC I should say. Greetings commissioners, thank you for your time tonight. And so this is for the Isaac's Farm major subdivision commercial development. This is the phase two portion of Isaac's Farm. I'll just be sure I got the right thing. Here goes the site location on DuPont Boulevard and just north of West Market Street. This is where the, I believe it's the shopping center, the Georgetown Plaza, just north of that where the storage and Green Hill Car Watch, I believe is what it's called. And we are looking to subdivide this parcel into five lots with a residual piece. The overall parcel is 54.43 acres and we're subdividing about 12 acres off of that into the five individual commercial lots. These will be zoned highway commercial. As was mentioned before, there is a zoning line that I don't think we have it here, but maybe this will be a better representation of it. The zoning line is the back blue line there on the back side of the pond. So the front half of this is highway commercial as the green lots represent. The back half is MR1, which is multifamily residential. Obviously, there would be a dedication of right-of-way and a vacation of a right-of-way as well because at the, let's see if there's a, I don't think there's a pointer. Everybody's looking different ways. Sorry. At the top half of Finley Avenue that is there now, and I'm going to try to point to, I believe, do we have it? Yes. To my right, I guess it doesn't really want to show where that four-way intersection is right there. Between Lot 4 and Lot 3, there is a cul-de-sac bulb that is currently there now. We need to vacate the right of way that is on the exterior of the cul-de-sac itself to make it a straight line for the extension of Findlay Avenue. and then just a couple more bits of information for this again i've covered part of it so the ride into five lots was a residual piece in the back uh it's main it's maintaining the split zoning of highway commercial and residential of the mr1 and the vacation of the right-of-way and the dedication of public right-of-way one approximately 1.76 acres this major subdivision happens to be consistent with the chapter 230 zoning code and chapter 194 of the subdivision of land uh one more item that it will bring to the commission's attention here is that this is going to help out the deldot interchange which is proposed on the left-hand side of the site here this is the grade separated interchange that deldot has proposed with route 9 and 113. there is a final extension of we consider it road a at the moment because it does not have a particular name but is the very north half or if you're looking at this site or the screen here the right side of the screen that will connect to the 113 itself that's going to be a right out right in right out and particularly and finley avenue will only be a right in situation according to deldot and their grade separated interchange improvements that they proposed along there so this will benefit greatly to you know the the interconnection to that new um interchange that DelBot has proposed there is going to help these businesses out. It's also going to help, you know, some of the residential parcels to the north that, you know, they might have a better way to get down to Route 9 that they don't have to traverse on 113. It's going to be a great improvement, I think, to the 113 corridor itself, not only with the DelBot portion of the project, but the extension of Finley Avenue to the DelBot interchange itself. The utilities for this is going to be, you know, with the town of Georgetown. The phase one of this already has the town of Georgetown water and sewer. I believe for this, the electric is dubbed Marvel Power and Light as well. And we're going to follow all of the landscaping requirements for the right of way dedication that's going to happen to the town for this. I will note, too, that as each of these parcels become developed, we will have to come back in front of this commission to seek approval for every single one of those individual developments that occur on those lots. So this will probably not be the last time you see this project, hopefully, if this succeeds in going through with this meeting tonight. And I will post any questions if there's any questions that anybody may have.

Any questions from the commission? So will these lots be for sale lots or for?

So I will bring up Casey Kenton who is part of the, owners group and he will talk about that.

Good evening, commissioners. My name is Casey Canton. To answer your question, chairman, we haven't really started marketing them at the present time. We envision potentially a build the suit. Our preference probably would be to sell, but we are certainly open to whatever the market demands.

Any other questions from the commission?

It was more of a comment for the Planning Commission is that this Application actually represents a combined concept plan and preliminary plan process. Normally you would see them separately, but this is a bit of an unusual situation. We don't oftentimes see a major subdivision for a commercial type of use. Almost always we're seeing subdivisions for residential purposes where the concept stage because you're talking about a lot of different other types of amenities and utilities that are involved. But with this particular situation, we, with consultation from our engineers, we agreed to sort of see it, see both essentially at the same time. So you're really only acting on the preliminary plan aspect of this project.

Thank you. Is there a motion?

Yes. I would like to make a motion to recommend that the town council approve the application for the preliminary subdivision plan approval as presented. And my reason is I'm so excited 113 is being developed commercially.

I have a motion. Is there a second?

I second.

I have a motion and a second. We'll take a roll call vote. Commissioner Weaver.

Yes.

Commissioner Allen.

Yes.

Commissioner Roach.

Yes.

Commissioner LaKate. Yes. And Ami, yes, as well. I'd love to see some more commercial development out there. Thank you, everyone. Thank you.

I appreciate it.

And our next order of business is case number 2026-19, Homewell, an application by Chief Fidelity General Contractors to make alterations to the building requiring historic review. The property is located at 142 East Market Street, Zone Historic District.

How you doing? I don't know if we have a slideshow. We would have had to submit that, right?

Yes, I had received one, but I didn't bring up the actual pictures.

Yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah, because I can kind of talk from there. Sorry about that. But Madison's like 6 this morning, so I saw this on my schedule. I'm like, I totally forgot. That's why we have Google calendars. Yeah, I tried to go on the website. I have the contract up, too, but I know I can't, like, cast to the screen. There we go. Yeah, if you just pull up, yep, sign contract, that should be good enough. So this, do you need to say anything? Am I good to go? Am I good? Okay. Yeah. So really the home well building over here, they called us up, wanted to replace the siding. So the wood siding that is on the building right now, if you want to keep scrolling there for me. So what we do is we took care of all the permits. G Fidel's been in business since about 2002. Total remodel company roofing, siding, windows, doors. In this case, we won't be touching the roof windows or doors. It's just going to be a siding replacement. So if you could just keep scrolling. So pretty much through the inspection pictures, the reason why we're replacing the siding is because it's failing its old cedar wood siding. So what we're going to do is totally take off the siding, reseed if we have to. There's probably no plywood under there, but you don't know until you take it off. We are prepared to receive the entire building if need be. We'll put moisture wrap on top of the building. And what we're going to do now is to make it so it looks the same. There's a five inch clapboard exposure instead of a Dutch lap that kind of comes out that's flat to the building. We're going to install a vinyl five inch clapboard that's going to look exactly the same. So if you want to keep scrolling. So all the windows that have those picture frames around them to make sure we keep the actual historic, we're not gonna touch any of that. We're gonna put J channel around all the windows where you have to pocket the vinyl inside of it. So we're not gonna touch any of the windows or window trim because that's the historic part of the building and we don't wanna touch that. So what we want to achieve is the white corners on the edge of the building, those are also gonna be white vinyl post corners where the vinyl side is gonna tuck into it. So we wanna keep the... the actual building of Oxford blue color, and then the actual corners are also going to be white. And then the inside corners are going to be a color match of Oxford blue color. And then it's all really going to look the same after it's done. Any of the electrical panels, what we do instead of mounting that straight to the vinyl siding, we put PVC blocking behind it. So that will look different. We don't want to damage the siding as it goes along. So behind those electrical boxes, We work with a professional electrician that works under us. He takes everything off. We cut the power to make sure it's not electrocuting anybody. And then we mount PVC blocks that are cut out and we put the electrical panels on top of that. If you want to keep scrolling, sorry. So to make the building look just like the rest of it, so not this one with the white, the one behind this, you see how the siding is under that? We're gonna take off all that wood paneling and then we're gonna install that blue siding so it matches all the other bay windows. If you wanna keep scrolling. So these are the sections that we're doing. So we're not touching any of the roof. Those are all the sections that are highlighted in blue are all going to get the wood siding removed. Everything that's not highlighted is probably a roof. So around the entire building, the 3D renderings is really showing what's going to be taken off and what's going to have a siding replacement. Keep going. Yep. And then that piece right there with the red arrow is technically doesn't have siding, but we're going to take that white wood siding off and then put blue vinyl siding there. You want to keep going. So this is the actual scope of work that has everything inside of there. So it includes all the necessary scaffolding. We're going to dispose of one layer, which is that wood layer under it, assess the existing wood substrate, which just means if there's no plywood, if there's bad plywood, we'll cut that out, bring it up to code, which is very important. You don't want someone installing stuff that's not up to code. We're going to use tight. We're going to use Certainty Premium House Wrap, which is the moisture wrap around the entire building. Certainty Main Street siding is just vinyl siding, and it has a 5-inch exposure, which the building has right now, Oxford blue, which is the closest blue color, and it's going to be a double-inch clapboard, so it's going to be about this thick, so it's going to be two 5-inch pieces coupled together, and it's going to be nailed all the way across, and it's going to give the building the same exact aesthetic. All the outside corner posts are going to be colonial white just like I explained. And then all the inside corner posts are going to be color matched just like the building is now. Everything else talks about loosely nailing. That just means it needs to expand and contract at the correct rate. It includes utility trims around the windows and the doors. J-channel is the trim that's going to go around the windows. We take care of all the cable and phone lines so that doesn't need to be touched. And obviously we'll pick up after ourselves. If you want to keep going. And then this disclaimer at the bottom, obviously they signed the contract. If plywood is needed, we've already had the discussion with them. We're just going to be a change order. No one has x-ray vision. You know, it's an old building. It's probably not going to have plywood. We'll resheet it if we need to. Demobilization just means we'll pick up behind ourselves. We use magnet wheels. Nails can be left. We'll pick up behind ourselves on the way out. And then after that... sorry we have very long contracts this is the double inch clapboard so instead of just having one piece that's nailed really vinyl siding is just two five inch exposed pieces but when it's installed on the whole building it's really just going to look like the clapboard side that's on there right now so they're five inches in yeah so it's so that whole piece is 10 inches but that exposure is five so that original picture you saw with me putting my tape measure up if i put my tape measure up to the building after it's done it's going to have the same exact exposure yep keep going sorry yep so that's what it looks like right there so it's going to look the same at the top and the bottom but the actual exposure of that one panel piece is the same exposure it is now it has a wood grain look it has a wood grain look to it yep so if you go back up to that top style right there there's like a wood grain texture i mean i have samples in my truck i'm not i don't know if you want me to run and go get it but it has a wood grain texture so it looks like wood yeah that's right Now, disclaimer, it's going to be vinyl, but it's made to look like it has wood. Our substrate clause just lets the customer know if something happens, if we get in and there's a stud missing, which there could be. Last house we did in Seaford, we opened up a wall and there was termites. The customer is going to know exactly what's going to be done, and they don't really have to question that. They know how much plywood is going to be, so we don't hide that from the customer. Everything else down here was approximate start date, which five to six weeks was about two months ago. We told them we were going to have to take it to the historic society. As far as when we're going to be done, it's probably going to be about a week. It really just depends on what we run into. It could be two weeks if we got to receive the whole building. It's just an approximate date. Then that's really it. Terms and conditions, there's a draw schedule. They signed off on it. Then that last page, Yeah, it's really just more terms and conditions that we need to consolidate. The only other documents that were in there were the measurements and the hover that I already, I put them into the proposal so you could see them. So that just lets you know, that's how we get all of our stuff right there. So if you just keep scrolling down, everything that's in there as far as trim, our software does all the math for us if you just keep going down. Keep going, keep going. keep going keep going this is just as long i'm sorry so if you just keep scrolling down you're going to see all the facets of the building and this is how we calculate all that so that's how we knew what we needed to replace all that was put into the proposal So this is just a measurement. I mean, that's pretty much the scope of work. We're going to do our due diligence to help out the building so it doesn't look the way it does, but we want it to look similar, but we don't want the building falling apart.

We don't either.

And I think it's going to look really good when it's done. Awesome. Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Any questions?

Can I ask about the bay windows? Yes, sir. if i'm seeing the picture correctly there's three bay windows on the house yep two of them have siding below the windows and so you're recommending or suggesting you put siding on the third window to make them all look exactly the same and that was that honestly the building owners and me coming from a consultative approach like if you're going to do new siding you don't want to have to redo it again and to have it look

you know, continuity all the way around the building. If we don't do anything with that, you can see that woods in horrible condition. So like that's a piece of wood we wouldn't touch because it's not technically siding in this case. So that's why we're going to take that wood off. We're going to resheathe around the bottom of that big window and make it look like the rest. Because if we don't touch that and then we do the siding and all the corner posts on the other ones, it's going to have fresh new vinyl siding under all the other bay windows. And then that's just going to stay the way it is right now.

Would the building have originally been built like the first bay window that you're going to replace and put siding underneath? I don't. I would think so. So you mean you think the building. What I'm saying is that what you want to put siding on. Yeah. In my best estimation would be the original. Oh, so you mean like that white. At some point the other two.

Gotcha. I mean. I mean, we could put PVC paneling, because I think the biggest part is we don't want to leave it like that, because technically right now, that's not a siding facet to us. So if you want to redo it and make it look the same, what we could do is we could still take all that off, and we could put PVC paneling along all the bottom of the big windows, but then that drives the price up. And also, it's not going to look the same as it does now. because you would have to get PVC paneling that's custom with those grooves inside of it, and it's going to get really expensive for the building owner.

Could I ask a question, a follow-up? I mean, to the commissioner's question, can you tell whether the other bays, just by investigating whether they were covered up with the... They were like that. They were originally, so it was originally done that way.

Yeah. I think that siding on that second bay window was built like that. Because I don't think that paneling was on top of it.

You could tell probably by the age of the difference.

I would guess that that was in addition to the building. I'm the one who sold the job. I was the one who took all these pictures. I know for sure they built that one different than the other one.

Is that closer to Market Street or closer to the back?

So if you're looking at the building, this is on the left-hand side. So this is right next to the brewery.

Is there any masonry work that needs to be done?

That's all wood.

Do you have any other history on the building, like when it was built? Was it a dentist? Somebody told me it was a dentist office once.

All I know is that thing is falling apart, man. And they need a new side.

Is that where you went to the dentist?

I mean, I went into the attic and I was like, I swear I saw a bat up there. I don't know, man. So, I mean, we can do a water two ways. I mean, I think it's going to look better if you put vinyl siding because... It's going to look cleaner also because it's going to have a nice white vinyl corner post running all the way down and then the siding is going to go in between that. I just think you should do one to match two instead of two to match one.

Are you doing any painting of the trim or anything like that?

Nope, it's all vinyl.

But the trim around the windows and stuff, that's wood, isn't it?

Nope, we're not even going to touch it. We want to keep it historic. We did tell them we weren't going to touch that. You could put aluminum capping around that, or you can go paint it. But if they want it painted, we can always give them a bid to do some painting.

It kind of looks like it needs painting.

It needs a lot.

I do have a question, and I hate to think this is going to happen, but if you start pulling this wood siding off and you get to underneath where the trim of these really beautiful windows are and they're rotten, what's the contingency plan?

So we will replace that and we'll get in touch with like an actual millwork company to outfit what's there, trim it out, get the millwork made, and it's just gonna be a change order for the customer. But we have a contingency plan for that. But if you scroll back up to where the siding meets the actual, where the siding meets the, yep, keep going, keep going, keep going. the way you do that is around that window you don't just start ripping the siding off like you actually score and you cut where the trim is and then you work the siding off from that so you don't just start going up to it with a hammer and taking it off we'll cut around that trim that's there slightly take all that off and then when we check the substrate under it we'll put that j channel around that window and then we'll pocket the side of mine there A lot of people think you just go up and just start hawk smashing the side. We cut and score on the outside of that to make sure we're not damaging the side.

Just going back to the bays, there's actually five bays on that side of the property, right?

They're in the measurements if you want to go. The measurements are going to explain that a lot better. Because it's going to show up. If you go to the measurements, if you scroll... If you keep scrolling all the way down to that side of the building, it's gonna show you how many there is. Keep going, keep going, and then keep going.

Keep going, one more, right there.

So there's five, and those other ones.

So you have four that are blue and one that's white.

And the reason I can tell is because it's, you see how it says SI-42, SI-38? That's how you can tell it's siding. You see how under that one bay window it doesn't have anything at the bottom? The software is not counting the siding because it's all wood paneling. So if you go to those other two bays on the other side, that's how I know without even looking at it that there's siding under those also. So you have four bay windows that we're going to match that new one to. And while I was out there, if it would have had wood paneling under all of them, guess what? That one we would have put wood paneling under that one.

If you look at the building, I would assume that that first one that's white today was part of an original building that was added on over time.

Yeah, because, I mean, there was four bay windows built exactly alike, and then one that just looks completely different. It had to have been added on at some point. Because I can't imagine there being siding under that, and then they put wood paneling on top. I just think it was added on after the fact.

I did want to just let the commission know that the property is on the national register. So there is some documentation as to what did exist on the property. And actually I'm looking and the boards I think that we were seeing are not original to the building. At least, I think this was done in the 70s. Or actually, 86, this was on the register, added to the register. So yeah, the boards are actually thicker in this original file.

So it was redone? That's not just in the back?

Well, so here's the front here.

They were like eight inches almost, yeah.

And look, this actually had boards on it. Is this the front here, I think?

Is it like eight-inch stick boards like clapboard laying on top of each other?

Yeah, they're just wider.

And I'm going to tell you right now, that's probably what's under that blue side. So what's going to happen is when that comes off, we can't install over top of that. All that's going to come off down to the studs. We re-sheave that, and then we water-tight it, and then we install.

What if it's a different color?

Different color as far as? The Oxford blue. the Oxford blue a different color? I mean, you're trying to match the color now, right?

He's wondering if the layer underneath is a different color.

Oh, that's not going to matter because it's coming off anyway.

But I mean, to keep it as true, yeah, would you want to make it the original?

Oh, you mean like the original color that's under there now? Yeah. I mean, I guess we're gonna have to cross that bridge when we get there. We're trying to match the color that's on there right now. He's gonna have extra blue materials sitting on site. So, I mean, what we could do to avoid the situation is have to check and see if we order materials we have the buying power that like we could return it what we could do is go to that building and we could take off the siding that's there because we wanted to avoid that because if it rained we had no idea how long it was going to take if this gets approved we can go take off a piece of that siding check what's actually under there and then maybe we can circle back and let you guys know and agree on a color um but i think it's probably been blue for 40 years now and that's what the that's what it's used to being that color so yeah if i had to imagine it's probably it was probably an eight inch flat board cedar siding on there originally and then they put this five inch flat board on top of that yeah it looks like on the original um uh

registration or register form, it has asbestos siding. So I don't know if that had been removed in the time since or if it's just underneath.

Like I said, we don't have x-ray vision. We work with abatement crews. We've been doing this for 20-something years, man. If we run into asbestos, we stop. We get an abatement crew out with hazmat suits. They take care of it. We get down to the studs, we resheathe it, and then we go from there. But if you scroll up if you scroll if you keep if you go back up on that document right there oh go back down right there so i went in the attic so can you see that on top of that stud right there now go down to where those two pieces of wood are yep yep that's probably what's at the very bottom that's probably what you see in your pictures on the outside of the original building but like you know we're not going to tear apart the building it was a bid we didn't even know if we were going to win the job once we take it off that's why our substrate clause is in there because if we run into asbestos we run in the clapboard siding it has all the pricing in there to take care of it so when was the historic preservation application um i think the the

The nomination was made in 1986, or at least the pictures are from, oh yeah, 87 it was submitted and likely approved shortly thereafter. So it likely had the asbestos siding in the 80s.

I can't imagine them putting that clapboard over asbestos because it would have started to crack the tiles. They wouldn't have been able to install it. They, because once you hit asbestos, it's like thick tiles. And once you knock one of them, it starts to knock the rest off. So I just don't, because of how you have to install cedar siding, I just don't think they would have been able to install over asbestos. Usually you put like a fan fold, like fiberboard over top of asbestos, and then you put aluminum over top of that. So all the aluminum buildings you see in Georgetown downtown, those have asbestos behind them. Yep, so any aluminum 8-inch clapboard aluminum you see in any downtown Laurel, Seaford, Georgetown, they have asbestos bond. But if it happens in this case, it's happened before, we'll take it off.

Any other questions for the applicant?

Can you tell me where that clause is about the moldings in the contract?

Yep, go down. You stop right there. None of the wood casing will be touched due to the historic nature of it.

No, I meant that you would go find a national mill right to replicate if any of it got damaged or was rotting.

What I'll do is I'll write a change order up by tomorrow, have it signed by the home well, and then I'll submit it to you guys. Is that fair?

Yes.

Okay. Who do I submit that to?

Ryan. You can send it to the town staff, to me or to Jamie.

There are no other questions. Is there a motion?

Yes. I make a motion to approve the proposed alterations to the subject structure and the property of the historic district as presented.

Thank you.

With this condition? Yeah.

With her condition?

With the condition of that, the change order.

I'll get that done tomorrow. So it'll look just like a one-page change order that's going to say the same verbiage. I'll have them sign off on it, and then I'll submit that tomorrow.

Perfect. The motion, is there a second?

Second.

Okay, motion second. We'll take a roll call vote. Commissioner Weaver?

Yes.

Commissioner Allen? Yes. Commissioner Roach? Yes. Commissioner LaKate? Yes. And yes as well. The building desperately needs a facelift.

You guys are easier than some of my customers, man. There's no blame for nothing, man. Come on, man. I just came from a three-hour appointment where I got berated the entire time. Awesome. Is there anything that you guys give me for approval so we can upload it to our CRM?

Yeah, we can give an approval letter. Okay. That represents their.

Is that probably Rocky, my admin, sent everything in? Is that going to go back to the original email that we put the application through? Because I can give you my email, so I can get it.

Sure, we can, yeah. If you have a card.

Yeah, it's OCT, A-V-I-O-N dot Wilson. at G-F-E-D-A-L-E.com.

Okay.

Awesome. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you. You guys have a good night?

You too. All right, there's no public here to make comments, so we need a development report.

Okay, so I think since we last met, the town council did begin a process of sending an ordinance to the Planning Commission for consideration, which would effectively repeal the cottage community amendment that we looked at in October. So the public hearing has already been scheduled for a month from today, the September meeting. So you'll be seeing that and the ordinance itself fairly soon. And it's available for those who are interested. So we actually have another annexation request already. This one is from Delmarva Christian School. They own a formerly held a single family house on Zoar Road, which is actually, it's right next to their main property, but it is technically outside of town. So they would be proposing to annex it into town. We believe that there's going to be a slight change that will need to happen to the future land use map as a part of that process. So we'll know more about that in the coming days. Okay. But you'll likely see something of that nature at the next one.

Do they plan to tear the house down and incorporate the property in here?

So, yes, they actually did, they did, and it's still in the county jurisdiction, they did tear the house down. Oh, okay. But, yes, but their plan would be very tentatively, I understand, is to have it host some sort of office or administrative support function.

Makes sense.

there is still an existing storage building, like a garage storage building on the property. And of course, partially it's to, in order to be served with your in-town sewer, you need to be in town, so that's part of the process, or part of the motivation, I believe. We also have, so we recently had a Board of Adjustment vacancy and we promulgated the vacancy to get some potential candidates. We have not received any as of yet. So if any of you know anyone who is interested in potentially serving on the Board of Adjustment, encourage them to submit a letter or to just contact me and I can walk them through any questions.

When do they meet?

They meet on the first Wednesday of the month. And they don't meet very often as it happens because we don't have very many applications. Maybe we meet like at the most six times a year. We met a little more from 25 for some reason, but we've only met I think twice this year so far. Yeah, and I think that's really all I have. We will actually have a large agenda next meeting in September, so put it on your calendars, you know, already. So we will be having likely a couple preliminary plan approvals. One is the Oaks Phase 3. You'll see that. You saw the concept of that, so you'll see the full plan. and you'll likely also see the ChristianaCare potentially, if everything is in order with that approval, and a couple other things.

Where's ChristianaCare planning to go?

That's the Schoenlumber.

Schoenlumber, I know. I can't even picture that. I have a question. What's going on next to Cheer?

It's Cheer.

yes yes so cheer has started i heard other things that might be in that potential shell property

Well, the Shell property. It's adjacent to that. It's adjacent to that, yes. But the property is, so CHEAR owns basically between their existing building and the Sandhill fields. So that's all CHEAR along Sandhill Road. So yes, they started the apartment building, the first apartment building of four, I think it is. And then I think they also are starting or have already started the administrative building. and also all the utility work that needs to occur there as well.

Thank you. Sure. So just besides a long agenda, I would anticipate a lot of public comment next time regarding this zoning amendment.

Yes. That's just one more item on that agenda. Yes. I'm sorry.

It's going to be a long night.

It will be a long night.

But yes, otherwise, that is all I have.

Any questions for Brian?

Brian, is anything happening with the, I think it's Popeye,

Yes, so they have had final approval for a number of months. We need to, I think, reach back out to them to say, hey, are you doing anything?

At the very least, they need to tear down the building.

Yes. That's true. True, true. Yeah, we can look at it.

Encourage things to apply for their demolition permit.

Yes, definitely, definitely.

Any other questions? Is there a motion to adjourn?

So moved. Second?

Second. All in favor? Aye. Motion carried. We are adjourned. Thank you all. OK. We're running out of minutes. Oh, I don't have to . No, Tom does.

Thanks. Good night. Have a good night.