Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

It is truly honor and a blessing for you today to celebrate a friend, to recognize someone that has given so much of themselves for a number of years, not just to the city of Gary, but specifically to Gary Community School Corporation and especially Westside Theater Guild.

Um this just all host of emotions, um myriad of ideas and memories in this beautiful facility. has been transformative and I'm grateful. So, may this auditorium continue to be a place where creativity is born, where voices are heard, where the light of inspiration never dims. And as is written in Matthew 5:6, let your light so shine before others that they may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven. I thank you all for this extraordinary honor. May God bless you. Did you know the city of Gary has [music] a 311 app? You can report any non-emergency request right [music] from your smartphone. Need help dealing with unfair landlords? Use the app.

Girl, I just don't understand. I'm paying rent and my landlord isn't fixing any of the issues in this [music] apartment. What should I do? You know, you can report it on the Gary 311 app. Do you have it? What's that? Let me show you. Just go to your app store. Or maybe you need to request the birth certificate. Yeah, I can't find my birth certificate. Oh, it probably just got misplaced during the move. Actually, we can request a new one through the Gary 311 app. Okay. New technology. I'm in. Let me show you. And guess what? You can even report illegal dumping. Look at him just dumping his garbage on private property.

Well, called them in 4K. You know, we can report them on the Gary 311 app and to GPD's tasting tip. That's good.

Never feel frustrated again about an issue. [music] Use the Gary 311 app to report all your non-emergency needs. It's a free application that allows users to [music] report community issues, pinpoint the location with GPS, attach photos, [music] and more. All right from your smartphone. Download the Gary 311 [music] app today. Available on iOS and Android. This is a very special day for the city of Gary to have this opportunity. Gary is a historic city and Truly a unique opportunity for us to be here. Almost 70 years ago on April 22nd, 1959, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was here to accept the key to the city from then mayor George Teres. Today, as mayor, I'm excited to welcome his daughter, Dr. Bernice King, to our city. She is a global thought leader, a peace advocate, and the CEO of the Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolence, Social Change, the King Center, which was founded by her mother and is a legacy to her late father.

And nonviolence is first transformative for the self. So for all those who ever told you or if you believe that it doesn't work, if it doesn't work, it means that you didn't allow it to work on you first. As you change, you begin to become infectuous. I think that's what happened in the movement that my father led and why he was effective. Um, in very challenging and difficult times. He immersed himself in nonviolence, not just something that he picked up as a tactic to be utilized in various campaigns and demonstrations, but for him it was a way of life. Um,

good morning. Welcome to the city of Gary Board of Zoning Appeals public meeting for Thursday, November 13th. [snorts] Call the meeting to order. Roll call, please. All right. Mr. Faucet here. Mr. Sarah here. Mr. Jones here. Mr. Hawkins here. Mr. Bonds. We have four members present and that constitutes a quorum for today's business. Okay. You should have received a copy. No, we wanted to request that we table minutes. Please.

I'll consider a request to table the minutes of our October 9th meeting. That it. Do you need a vote? Yep. I move that we table the minutes from the last meeting. Okay, I'll second it. It's been moved and second that we table the minutes for October 29th, 2025. Are there any questions? All those in favor? I. Any opposers? We can do it. You just keep us from going to opposed. Hearing none. So moved.

Approved. Okay. So, new business BZA 2025-33. Um, so this is a special use permit for a um home daycare um at 713 Carolina Street. I would like to ask the petitioner to come up and give us a a general overview of their project. If you can stand in front of that red chair, if you and Mr. Hawkins could both come because it that way it'll be, you know, cuz it's in your name. But I do understand that's your wife. So, yeah. Okay.

You could just stand in front of the uh red chair and tell us about what it is that you want to do. We are trying to open up um a daycare actually a family daycare because we I have a lot of grandkids and I really want to you know be able to you know keep them speak up. Did she say a family that family family

and to you know have the u have whatever I need you know through the state and everything to to make sure that everything is going correctly with my daycare and everything. Yes. But it's mostly a holidayare you know for my grand. You said family daycare. I can't hardly hear you. Yes. Family you know grandkids and nieces and nephews. That's what I was trying to keep through the state. Okay. Is that you have anything else? Are you done? That's it.

That's [laughter] okay. You all can um have a seat. Thank you so very much. You might be coming back up for questions shortly. Okay. All right.

All right. Um, so as the petitioner uh stated, they are asking for a special exemption used to allow them to have a home daycare. They are zone R5 in um a residential multifamily district where home daycarees are operational but is conditionally permitted with approval of a special use. Um, based upon the planning and zoning department's uh review of supporting materials, staff find that the request meets all seven criteria outlined. Um, specifically, the proposed will not be detrimental to the health safety, nor will it negatively impact the use or enjoyment of adjacent properties. the daycare is appropriately scaled for its residential setting and does not conflict with the ongoing development or improvement of neighboring lots. So, the planning zone department recommends approval based upon the [snorts] outlined conditions. First, the petitioner must obtain all required license from the state of Indiana family and social services for home daycare operation. The maximum number of children enroll shall not exceed the capacity allowed by said state license standard for a home daycare in a residential district. All exterior signage must comply with residential zoning standards and may not include any commercial branding or illustration. No structural modification shall be made at the home that would alter its residential character without prior planning department review and approval. The petitioner must comply with all applicable local code including building safety, noise, sanitation, and fire protection regulations. The special use permit may be revoked if the use is found to be a nuisance or if the petitioner fails to comply with any

conditions of the approval. So ends my report. Thank you very much. Um question and there were no letters for nor against this petitioner just for clarification to speak for. Okay. This being a public hearing are there any one is there anyone present who would like to speak in favor of or oppose to this petition? Seeing none, are there any questions from the board? I have one question.

Can you come up for um the questions from the board, please? Thank you. Uh my question is uh fairly simple. Is uh a uh house inspection part of of this process? Yes. And they complied in and past inspection. It should be on pay. It should be I went through that, but I didn't But as long as it had I think we just didn't add it to your uh packet but I think it's your in your digital. Thank you my question. Saving trees. I have one other question. I'm I was confused. You say it's a family daycare. So it's only family and no outsiders or

actually that's what I was actually doing it for. My grandkids. But we take care also. Wait, you you you're just doing it for your grandkids, but you'll take outside. Yeah, we'll take outside our kids also. Not just family, but they care for everybody, everyone. I think explaining her passion for children. Her reason, children or adults? Children. Children. Okay. So, you're just basically planning for the future in the event that you run out of grandkids and nieces. Yeah. [laughter]

Will the entire property be used for this? No. I know this is a twostory, right? No. The lower level of the basement. Pardon me. The downstairs. The basement. The daycare will just be confined to the basement. Yes. Okay. Who's going to be on the first floor? Uh, I I don't want first. Who's on the third floor? No one. But just for clarification, the whole entire site was inspected. When were these pictures taken? [snorts] When did you take your pictures? Three weeks ago. Yeah, it had to be during the beginning of the um process. Process. Yeah. About last month. I got one question.

Yes. Is there exit to get out of that basement? Yes. Okay. Is bathroom down there? Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. Kitchen, too. Has the property been painted recently after these pictures were taken? No. Quite frankly, I am concerned with the the condition of the property of from the looks of these pictures. I believe on one side where you have all your grills, also electric meters that are basically young people tend to.

So for the purposes of this V that would go in context with her home inspection that she would get from the state if the state requires it. But for us, we just need to determine whether or not she would qualify for a special use to have a daycare. And then once she submit her Thank you. You can get her, Mr. Hawkins. Okay. Thank you very much. That's all I have. Are there any questions? I think I just have one more. Do you have your u uh licenses at this point? State the state license.

She wouldn't be allowed. State has reversed the process. So, they are required to have a location approved with the special use in order for them to even uh apply and take the state test. So we have verification of that. So and and moving forward for all of them they're you're going to start seeing that as well because they no longer will give them the license without a location or a special use. Okay. Thank you.

I actually was this area of the building. You going too far back. Keep going. Keep going. Everything in this petition will be in here. There you are. Tab three will be your sec your next petition. Any other questions? What is your pleasure? I move to approve the request. 25-33 special use operated dayare daycare at 713 Caroline Street. It's been moved and a second to uh

would you like to include the provisions or just approval flat out as the staff recommended which would include the provisions? I'm sorry. I got a question. It's cleaned now. It's called No, I see three meters here. Is this a three threetory? It's a twotory. Is it three units in here? I see three meters. Yes. Is there three units? First, second, third, and they're rented. No, the top floor is not rented. The bottom, middle floor is rented, and then the basement. [clears throat] So, there's going to be three families in here. No, they live in that house. That's their first floor.

I'm seeing three unit three meters. Three meters. He So, that means that there's three properties on here. Three uh units on here. Are there going to be other people living in here? No. So, the daycare is in the basement. They live on the second floor. They do not There's no inhabitants in the third. That's That's why I'm asking cuz it's one, two, three. Yes. So, there's have to be three units in this building. Yes. The basement, the daycare, the second, the their home. They live in this building. The They live in this building. And then this is the um vacant

vacant unit right here. So will the vacant unit be rented out? No. No. I'm uh basically I'm rent to own it. So no, it's going to be upstairs. So you don't own the building? I'm renting to own it. You're renting to own it. Okay. Okay. And that dated agreement of their rent to own process is in the petitioner. Understood.

I was just concerned about the three units. I see 3 meters, so I know 3 meters mean three units. I drove them crazy with that, too. So, it's not just Okay. Okay. All right. So, it's been moved and second that we approve the EA 2025-33. Uh, roll call, please. Uh, certainly, Mr. Faucet. Yes, Mr. Sarah. Yes. Mr. Jones, yes. Mr. Hawkins, no. So, we'll show by a vote of 3 to one. This receives a favorable recommendation. And now we'll go on to city council. Uh, subject to the conditions um for hearing in front of the city council. Cool. Congratulations.

Thank you. All righty. Moving on. BZA 2025-34. So, the petitioner is Um, the petitioners reconstruct aggregate and their represent representation is uh Scott E. Yang, their attorney. They're requesting a special use permit to um allow a wet processing system in a M1-1 limited manufacturing. if you would like to come up and give us a breakdown of what your project is.

Absolutely. Thank you very much. I'm Scott Yay. Uh I'm an attorney. I have offices in Valareerezo and Monster and Hammond. If you can step over there so the camera can see. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Push me back too. Somebody give me hand signals if I start to wander when I do that. Um, and I'm an attorney. I do a [snorts] lot of this type of work. And so this client uh approached me. Uh, kind of interesting. This client is based in Northern Ireland. They do have u headquarters.

They do have a number of operations in the United States.

Uh, and as I also learned through this process, they have a lot of operations in in that throughout Europe. uh specifically Sweden, Norway and this process for which they're seeking approval today kind of originated in those areas because they have a real scarcity uh when it comes to sand. Okay. So that's kind of what the fundamental driving force of what they seek to do here is to reclaim sand. um because I didn't know this. You know, we're in a region where we're surrounded by sand. Uh but it turns out that this is a really endangered product throughout the world. There's a lot of actually criminal activity that comes from illegal sand mining and depleting in this area. We don't notice that as much, but certainly we know nobody can go up to Lake Michigan and take sands from there. But what they found in this process in areas where they can't mine it and we don't have a lot of sand mining here, so this stuff gets trucked and um so what they found in this process is that in areas for example such as this there's a lot of sand beneath our feet particularly in the northern part of the county and I've learned that and then if you go a little bit further south on down to US30 where the you know the ice age uh the extent of the Lake went you'll find another sand belt down in that area. So we have very sandy soil in a lot of areas around [clears throat] northwest Indiana and Chicago land. Uh so what these folks propose to do and it's at 4900 to 5200 East 15th Avenue just to kind of orient you. That's just south of the toll road. Um they're just north of uh Republic has a waste transfer facility over there off

of 15th Avenue. they uh they would have this facility kind of bordered by the toll road. There are no residential areas in their immediate impact. Um and right now that's been used. It was a tank farm over there for many years. Um you know storage of I don't know whether it was oil or different types of uh liquid in [snorts] tanks. Right now it's primarily just for uh truck storage and parking. There are a lot of trucks on that site right now. Uh so these folks found this property uh and it suits their needs because what they would propose to do is when somebody does excavation on a building site, right? They excavate the material. Typically that has to be sent off to a landfill, uh there's a lot of trucking associated with that. What would happen is they would bring that material to this facility and it goes through this process where they separate basically they're trying to separate the sand through a process uh and then that goes to the market but then they also have clean fill which they can also return for building purposes. That's what this would be for. Uh and then they separate out any you know vegetation that's in there um because that's not suitable for you know to give the base for fill uh and anything else if they discover any ferrris materials that gets sorted sent off to recycling. So basically this is they take in the soil and then they break it down into its constituent parts. Now, how do they do that? And hey, we're going to have dust in the air and you know, all those types of concerns. What they do is through a wet process. Um, so they they tell me and I've seen their operations. They sent me videos from places, you know, where they did

this in Norway and there's a place in Texas and there's number of other places. They don't have dust emissions because this is entirely waterbased where this soil is basically washed. and then it's allowed to settle. So you separate out the clay from the sand uh and then they break it down into those parts using a wet process. The other nice feature about this process is that water is completely contained. They aren't going to be discharging water into the sanitary district. Um they will be reclaiming the water they use as as a continuous cycle and then they clean that water on site as well. Uh they will also capture rainwater on site so that we don't have discharge of you know of any of this because you've got soils and so forth. So we don't want it tracked all over the streets and to that um uh part of the operation. They have uh washing like any truck that exits the property the have truck uh wheel washing of the truck wheels so that we're not uh taking any of the material onto the streets. Um, so we're before you pursuant to the zoning ordinance and there's a specific clause where we have a special use. It's like a lot of the uses that are permitted in M1, but you know, these processes are developing all the time. There's nothing in there called sand washing or or soil washing or anything of that sort. So, we need to come before you and say, "We've got a little different process that's not defined in your organ or in your zoning ordinance, but it's like one of the listed processes, and then we have to come and present it to you and see if you think it fits uh for the community." And we have the same seven factors that

you were just considering with the prior uh prior presentation here. You're going to expect a little more of us, right? because this is a type of process that has more of an impact than than the daycare. So, I I do want to address those seven factors at least briefly to show you how I think this project will meet uh the concerns that you would have to enable you to make a determination. And certainly whenever you're ready, I guess at the next stage, I'll answer any questions and I want to make sure that I cover them all. Uh in my uh submission, I've given you a supporting letter. I've tried to give you some uh overhead Google Earth uh views of the property to kind of give you the orientation. You look at page two of my letter, you'll see uh kind of the existing uh uh display of the property and you can see there's a lot of trucks on site or uh truck trailers that are stored there. Uh we are in the M1-1 limited manufacturing zoning district, so I do need to make that clear. And so we're subject to the M1-1 requirements. Uh as I mentioned on page three, I try to give you they don't show up as nicely in the letter unfortunately, but uh the we are just south of the tollway uh just north of uh Republic Services Waste Transfer Station. Um so we're in that area. We do have a good buffer with 15th Avenue immediately to our south as well. Um the oh where do we get these so soils from? These are from excavation projects. So primarily these are going to be locally received. You know somebody's building a house you know um excavating for construction of a building. That's the type of material that we would be receiving.

Um we will then bring it on site uh and there will be a well- definfined truck pattern or safety pattern. Uh each vehicle that that comes on site is weighed and then checked out before being allowed to to leave. And as I mentioned, we don't um we're not going to have any water discharged from the site. uh and our no noise profile. We don't think we're going to be discernible from from the surrounding traffic or surrounding uses. This does not produce much in the way of noise because it's a water-based system. And um I had unfortunately I don't have a video screen here, but I could show you. It's essentially lots of water nozzles filtering down on this soil and then it's grates that sifted into different size of of granules to get to the sand. Um, I do need to show you that we are not going to be detrimental or endanger the public health, safety, morals, or general welfare. Uh, we're going to have wellm marked ingress and egress from the site. It's going to be a defined traffic pattern that will be safe to get vehicles on and off the site. Um, we will not have uh discharge in the way of dust. We will not have water discharged from this site. So we don't think we are going to be adversely impacting any surrounding areas. We think that this area the M1-1 area is suitable for this type of de development and are around us there are similar type at least not exactly this type of use but very similar uses. Uh we have to show you that we are not going to be injurious to the use and enjoyment of properties in the immediate vicinity. Um, we're going to replace the current uh truck and trailer parking uh in favor of something that's much more economically

beneficial. We believe um we believe we will have on balance less truck traffic than is currently uh visiting and coming on and off the site. Uh and this is going to be a safe a safe area and that access to this site will be tightly controlled and monitored uh so that we don't endanger anybody who would be in that area. We don't expect that but that's you know part of the protecting the equipment and making sure that people don't get hurt by accessing an area they shouldn't access. Uh we have to show you that we will not impede or substantially alter the normal and orderly development and improvement of surrounding property. To the contrary, we're not going to imp adversely impact our neighbors. We're going to give a uh consistent use in that area. We're going to introduce economic activity, vibrancy, and a uh I think what would be a good project and an environmentally pro project, environmentally friendly project to the to the city. When we're all said and done, uh we have to show you that we have adequate utilities, access, roads, drainage, uh and other uh at or attributes. In this circumstance where we're going to be containing all water on site, we don't have a lot of the concerns that would a lot of times be a major concern in this type of operation where I have worked with uh water treatment plants before that bring on water and go through a process but there's substantial discharge. We are not discharging rather we're capturing and reusing. So we don't have that concern. we in looking at the traffic flow in that area and and admittedly we will have truck traffic that area is in fact designed for that and we think that will the existing system will well

accommodate what we have in mind. Um have we taken adequate measures to uh access or to provide for access management ingress and egress kind of mentioned that earlier we have defined traffic flow I think that we have met that obligation also there's no need to queue on to public roads uh part of their operation is they will have if there are additional trucks that come we're not going to have them stacking up on the on the roads rather there's sufficient area for them to park on the property itself. Uh we are going to use it's about can't remember I think it's about a 10 acre site give or take. Let me check my math and make sure though. Yeah, it's about a 10 acre site. We're going to use about one and a half acres for this operation. So, we're going to have a lot of uh of the property where we're not using this entire property. So, we have ample we're not trying to, you know, fit 10 pounds into a 5 lb bag here. We've got ample place to queue vehicles as needed and our operation will leave excess land that we we just won't need to touch, but it will be serve as a buffer to the surrounding neighbors. Um, we need to show you that uh otherwise that this use doesn't cause other problems in your zoning ordinance. I reviewed the ordinance. I didn't see any others and I don't think staff identified uh either Dr. Martin or Michael identified any issues that uh would contravene other provisions of the ordinance. I do know that before I was introduced to the process, they had a uh my uh the folks that are presenting this project had a lot of interaction and answered a lot of questions. So I think we've gone through the uh the vetting process pretty thoroughly and didn't find any other issues that came uh to

the four. Uh and then we need to show you that um the implementation or this will promote the implementation of sustainable growth principles and initiatives. Um we're going to have 10 to 15 jobs as a result of this project. Um so there will be a net gain of what's currently going on site which is very minimal in that regard if anything. Uh we're going to uh promote cost savings to the local construction uh industry uh by reducing the fees that they pay for soil disposal by providing a a closer uh um deposit point if you will so that they don't need to drive down to Newton County, you know, some of the larger landfills to deposit their uh material. They'll be able to do it here. And then we have the added benefit of they're able to then reuse uh materials that we have cleaned and provided for their use. And we think this is an added benefit to the construction industry in their area as well. So we think it's environmentally friendly. We think it's a good uh use of that property. Uh and we think it will serve a lot of important um um you know chances for development of that property of the type of thing that is appropriate. Um, I do want to uh let all of you know that I received a series of questions yesterday. Um, some I tried to answer some of those questions in the context. I'll be able to do that more, but let me just uh upon, you know, folks that want to speak on this because everybody deserves to be heard and I want to make sure I provide answers to questions. I talked to a gentleman last night, Michael Zeller, uh, an attorney. uh had a good discussion with him, directed him to some websites, provided him some information, and then the principal with whom I deal, his name is Darren. Um he encountered, he had hoped to be here. He encountered travel problems and has been all

[clears throat] over the place. He did this morning, he was able to give me detailed answers to the questions that were posed. I forwarded those to uh Mr. Zeller and he indicated that he would forward those responses to members of his group and I think I provided them uh to uh Michael this morning and Dr. Mark I hope you received as well. Um but um we won't um so I mentioned before we aren't going to contain any water. So there's no effluent from the from the water. Um primarily this sits on top of the ground if you kind of get a sense of the uh pad that we saw. So, we're not going to have construction that goes into the ground. Rather, this system pretty much sits on top uh of the ground. It's going to take about four months to construct uh this this uh facility. There is the possibility in the future that they would want to enclose it because they can't operate in freezing conditions. They don't need to enclose it for because they don't have any emissions. But there is an added added benefit that if they enclose in the future uh they can have their operations for a lengthier period of time during the year. Uh they're going to use this was a question posed. They're going to use uh one and a half acres even though the site is about 10 acres. that's for the facility and then they anticipate for the truck queuing and just the the uh access p uh roadways and so forth. They'll use about five of the 10 acres in total. Um the here's the there was the the group had asked for a breakdown of this system. Basically the material comes into the system uh and it goes through several screening stages uh using water to wash. There are two scrubbing processes, one for sand and a separate process for aggregates. There's a

flotation process, a clay removal process, and then dewatering uh from the sand. And I'm sorry, folks, I'm a I'm an an attorney and engineering I I try to get the uh broad strokes, but if I say something out of balance, I'm sure some of you will know much better than I. Um, basically, the settlement is of the fine clays out of the water. Um and then the water is recycled for storage and pumping and it's just continuous process. Um and then they'll store the uh the uh clay the thickened clay and uh they'll allow that to be water itself basically to settle out the water from the clay. Um I think here they'll get the dirt from construction processes. uh who will receive only inert materials. I think that's important to know. And and they were asked a question about contamination uh according to my client, the only contamination uh within the materials they consider inert clay contamination because they're looking to obtain sand. Uh organic material, leaves, grats, roots, that sort of thing. Uh and some ferrris metals which they'll separate and [snorts] recycle and uh treat appropriately. Um, and I think I already mentioned they'll store trucks on site, so we won't have queuing on the streets. So, hopefully I answered some of the questions. I know I rambled on quite a bit, but uh, I thank you for considering us.

I have a question. Let's get over first. So, as the petitioner um stated, they are seeking a special use to construct a and operate [clears throat] a wet processing facility on an existing freight yard um at 4900-5200 East 15th Avenue. The proposed system will receive clean soil from urban receive and clean soil from urban construction projects in Chicagoland Northwest Indiana region. using water-based machinery as he stated um and recycle those materials. Based upon land and zoning review, the site is M1 uh limited manufacturing which allows industrial activities consistent with fabrication, processing and testing. However, there is no clear definition as to a wet processing um listed in our um ordinance. So based upon that it is um to be considered as a special use. Um the proposed align with the uh comprehensive plan and land of industrial land use designation and complies with nearby industrial operations. Um environmental and operational considerations just because we are all uh one city so we have to look at it from all different perspectives. So the petitioner after discussing this that the petitioner has committed to using um state-of-the-art water treatment systems and dust suspension technologies. I have watched the videos from different areas and locations to see how this process uh worked because I was concerned about the dust um and wasn't able to see anything from the videos that I was able to look at on their website which is free for everyone to look at. [snorts] Um the operation will be fenced and buffered by

existing vegetation. and they do not plan on utilizing the full 10 um acres and they're going to continue to use the existing buffer which has been put in place for what exists there um and improve on it um which was something that uh we talked about. Um operational hours are limited because of course they they there may not be any noise whatever that may be. I can't determine that but I want to protect the um surrounding area. Um and so they expect it to be minimal um minimal surrounding freight and traffic highway activity. Um all of the supporting documents um were submitted um appropriately. Um upon a review of those supporting documents, they satisfy the requirement criteria for special use. The proposed will not be detrimental to the public health, safety or general welfare and it complies with industrial character of the area. The surrounding P properties are zoned M1 and are similar. There are similar and more advanced uses. Um the site has adequate infrastructure access the buffering to accommodate the proposed use. There's no variance needed for development standards. The petitioner has provided evidence and comply compliance with um intent to comply with uh environmental regulation and implement additional screening and storm water control public noise requirements and have agreed to uh meet all of those obligations. In light of these findings, staff recommend a favorable condition for the special use permit with the following conditions. There's a lot, so I'm going to read them just so you can hear them clearly. Environmental compliance. The peritioner must obtain and maintain all required environmental

permits from the Indiana Department of Environmental Management, US EPA, and applicable federal or state local legislies. This includes storm water discharge, sediment control, and dust mitigation. And of course, we know that they it was proposed that that wouldn't exist, but I need to verify as um they move forth. Drainage and runoff plan. Of course, they said it wouldn't be, but safeguard. A formal discharge and runoff control plan must be submitted to and approved by the city engineer prior to operation. This plan must include sediment containment, flow direction, and storm water management. Of course, hours of operation shall be limited to 6:00 am to 6 pm Monday through Saturday. Any change to these operation must be receive prior review must receive prior review approval by the planning department. Site screening and buffering. The facility must maintain fence and or vegetation screening along the perimeter to shield operations from public view and reduce visual impact to the adjacent properties. Noise and dust mitigation. All equipment must be maintained in good working order. and out and outfitted with the noise reduction components. The site must implement continuous dust suppression techniques. Of course, we know they said it wouldn't be, but just for safeguard including water applications or enclosed transfer methods. Trafficking access, of course, we heard that there may not be any, but safeguard. All truck access must be limited to designated industrial routes. A traffic management plan may be required by the engineer or public works department to avoid congestion or neighboring impact. Annual review and compliance. The planning department and board of zoning appeals reserve the right to conduct the annual review or compliance check especially upon receipt of public

complaint. No expansion without approval. An expansion of the operations, materials, process, equipment installed beyond what is presented in the approval application will require a new review and approval by the board of zoning interview and appeals and per emergency preparedness plan. The petitioner must provide a spill prevention emergency operation plan including contaminants, procedures for equipment failure or weather related flooding prior to receiving a certificate of occupancy. Revion clause. The special use permit may be revoked if the operations become a public nuisance, violate the state conditions, or pose an ongoing environmental or public safety risk or risk. After reading that, we the petitioner did receive a um document for questioning for their um petition. However, because of the person being here, I would like her to stand and um

she's talking. Yeah, I'm talking. Oh, yeah. I should have said her name. I just was smiling at her. And give her the opportunity to state her uh for and or against during this time as I don't want to read the whole thing. Okay. Is this the appropriate time to do that? I do open public meeting and then Yeah. Well, I meant at po public open meeting, but I just was letting you know she was here and that. So, the reason why I'm not going to read the letter because I'm going to give her the opportunity to sit down. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm going to give her the opportunity to cuz she's here to stand for or against. Just letting you know. So, you won't Okay. I don't want to read it. I I have a question that's bothering me. Uh

maybe we should go to public open comment and then to board comment. Okay, so ends my report. Thank you very much. I really appreciate your conditions of approval. I think they're very thorough and it should be a part of most of these applications. They are because it reinforces what our ordinances actually say. So very good job. Okay. So now we'll open the public portion of the meeting. Thank you.

Hello everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to uh speak to you about this uh proposed uh project. [snorts] A few things jump out at me immediately. Truck traffic. We don't know what kind of trucks they have. if they're diesel, [snorts] you know, if they are coming in. He didn't say how many there would be, but we all know that 15th requires a lot of love and it usually doesn't get it, okay? Because of the truck traffic that's already there. And then if they're going to hit I 8094, they'll be going down Clay to get there. That has recently been resurfaced. But what's going to happen to it with increased truck traffic? So, I'm concerned about our roads. Who's going to pay, you know, for the the upkeep on our roads, especially 15th and and um and clay, and also if these trucks are what we usually see around here, which are diesel, that is definitely an environmental issue for the community. And I noticed the gentleman didn't say anything about a neighborhood abuing this plant, but yes, Etna is right there. Etna is right there. And as we all know, pollution doesn't stop at, you know, at boundaries. It is in the air. And so if they are bringing a lot of trucks in and they're dieselbased, uh, you know, that's going to affect the neighborhood of Etna. And I I want to make sure that everyone knows that we are an environmental justice city. That means that we are historically inundated with pollution, predominantly industrial pollution, but now trucking since we have so much trucking [clears throat] in our city. and we don't need to add anymore. Perhaps that they would be willing to have vehicles that are not diesel, you know, maybe hybrid or electric or something that are going to be coming in and out 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. That's a

lot. That's a lot. So, we need to consider that. Um, also, are they asking for a tax break? We do you know that? Yeah, we don't know that. But if they're asking for a tax break, uh, then that further complicates the issue because if they're going to get a tax break for doing this, who's going to again pay for the roads? Who's going to pay for the additional traffic on the roads? Um, so I think I think everyone needs to know how many trucks they have, what kind of condition they're in, how many they expect per hour. We're talking 12 hours a day, six days a week. That is a lot of truck traffic over there. [clears throat] Um, hiring 10 to 12 people, 10 to 15 people. He says, "Well, what is their hiring policy? Are are people in the city of Derry going to have access to these job? What kind of jobs will they be?" Um, and also, I have a problem with this. He says they're going to wash the trucks because they might have some dust on them. But at the same time, he says environmentally this is not a problem because, you know, they're going to bring these trucks in with this sand that's dusty and then they're going to dump it and then they're going to wet process it. I like that idea, but the problem is that when they as they dump, they're going to emit, right, dust. And so if the if if it's is this is going to be a pole barn or what what is what is the enclosure going to look like and apparently they're not going to uh enclose it right away. But in any case uh I think I think we need to know what it's going to look like and what the conditions will be for the workers there. Um

the existing trucks are they going to stay there? Do we know that? And why would they? Is this is this property owned by is this project being projected um for special use by the people who already own the property and have all those trucks sitting there? Is that who it is? We need I mean we need to know who's in charge of this. Um they say they're interested in local excavation projects. I guess it they became interested in Gary probably because you know we're rebuilding our city and we're going to be taking down a lot of buildings and there might be a lot of sand that needs to be decommissioned so to speak and that's kind of a you know it's an interesting proposal to do that to do that but I think that we need to know we need to know more before we sign on the dotted line. So, um, I really like the work you did on this. This is great and and it puts them in a position of not only having to comply now, but with the annual review is great. That's about all I have to say. I did um our lawyer guard I by the way I'm with Gary Advocates for Responsible Development and we do have an attorney that works with us Mike Zeller and he um was talking with with you and of course everyone knows who Mike is and he did have some other um other issues.

Excuse me. Yes. And that information has been shared with Yes, it has. Yes. Okay. Okay. So, we don't get to talk about that. Okay. Thank you very much. Yes. Yes. Okay. Did you have a question of me? Not of you. Not of me. Okay. And that's it. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. [laughter] My concerns. Is there other public comments? I have I'm with the toll road. I have several question. Can you come up here? And if you're speaking, just make sure you sign the signin sheet in the back, please. Thank you. Good afternoon. Good afternoon.

My name is Matthew Mclofflin. I'm the municipal separate storm sewer system coordinator for the Indiana Road. I was sent here to ask questions about this project today and I have I have a few. How all how far off of the toll road will your business be located? You cannot directly ask a question to the petitioner as you're here to present your questions to the board. So you can ask us and then we can Okay. So how far off how how far away from the toll road will the business be? Just curious. It's not a dialogue. So you can present all your questions and we'll address. Okay, that's my first question. Okay.

Um will vehicles from the business be entering the toll road using our toll plazas? Will the business be clearing over an acre of property? As I understand it, it's going to be an acre and a half. Once you go over 43,560 square feet, one acre, you [snorts] are then required to be under municipal separate storm sewer system regulations for the Indiana Department of Environmental Management. And Lake County will want to be a part of that. And if that is the case, they're probably going to need a storm water pollution prevention plan. They're also going to need best management practices for that. Which meaning that if they're if they are um going to have trucks going on and off the property, there's going to have to be some kind of a area in which they can cleanly leave the property so they're not tracking mud, other debris off of the property. Plus any spoils piles [snorts] developed from clearing the land. That's also a part of that acre. So that has to be accounted for. If excavation is going to be required for this property, how deep are we going? Because water table's pretty close here. Um, as I understand they it was covered about the prochemicals in the uh uh spill prevention control and countermeasures plan. So I'm not going to ask about that. Um any water or spoils? Will any of the water or spoils from this development be going into any toll

road ditches? We're going to need to know that. Will toll road access be required for the business? We covered that. That um will an environmental firm be used toward the planning of this project? Because I'd say it sounds like it'd be a good idea if one was used for that. Somebody like Stantech or somebody like that. [sighs] How will the water be processed? As I understand it, you're going to be be keeping all of your water on site. So, will there be a processing facility on site? And if so, will that processing facility have its own national pollutant discharge elimination system permit by the Indiana Department of Environmental Management be granted to that processing? Um, how will organics from this water be disposed of? As well as how will waste sludge be disposed of? Typically, when you have waste sludge, you you have some kind of a permit for that as well so that you can spread or dispose of it properly and test it properly. Those are my questions.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else interested in speaking for against BCBA 2025-34? Is there anyone interested in speaking for against BZA 2025-34? Is there anyone interested in speaking for or against BCA 2025-34? Hearing none, I consider the public portion closed. Now, Reverend Jones,

thank you. [laughter] A as a retired water treatment chemist. Oh boy. My concern is the filtration and penetration and Lake Michigan reclamation of her waters. Uh, I'm trying to figure do how would this affect

the water that penetrate back to Lake Michigan? [clears throat] I'm interested in uh the water that naturally filtrates back [snorts] to Lake Michigan even though you're going to be reclaiming what you can but you can't reclaim at all. And I'm trying to wonder what's how is that going to affect the natural vegetation? 15th Avenue is only a few blocks from Lake Michigan. Our drinking water comes from Lake Michigan. and some of it is going to filtrate and percolate back to Lake Michigan. How is that going to affect our drinking water and the native plants that grows in the dune area around that area?

You know, I'm I'm sorry you just brought up another very good question. Just a quick question. What was public comment? I'm sorry. Public comment has been closed. Yes. Yeah. So, I have a site plan here to give you a little bit maybe a perspective and response to the question. I have to estimate, but this measurement here is 105 ft guesstimating probably another 60 ft to the toll road toll road. So, we're about 160 ft set back from the toll road just to answer one of the questions. And then I think in response to your question, so what will happen is in this is the entire site. Okay, I'm good.

Okay. Yeah. Sorry, I got a dark glasses, but I can see.

Sorry. Um the soil goes onto this into this equipment essentially. And so the water is applied within the context of the equipment, not not in the yard so to speak. It's within the equipment itself. And so the water is maintained within the it's applied within the equipment and kept within the containment of the equipment. My folks, they'll have to prove it, right? This isn't this isn't just I don't get up here and say it. They have to prove it. They have to get item permits that show this. They assure me and I've looked at a number of the videos to watch this equipment at work. They do not discharge to a lot of the questions and concerns that have arisen here. They do not discharge um rain that comes down on the equipment portion that actually gets recaptured as well. They won't capture, you know, rain on the water they're not using, but they don't propose to even impact much of this site. Uh to the question that was raised, those other vehicles, they have to be removed. Um, one of the other questions raised, my client would be leasing this property from the owner of the property and have lease rights to the entire and has secured that in advance pending approval. Um, that they would lease this entire property. No, no other, you know, the the current user has to vacate the property and that's part of the all the timing that we need to work out. To your specific question though, my understanding is there won't be discharged into the Lake Michigan water basin and from this process from any any activity that's done by these folks. There won't be discharge.

Is that a cement pad? I'm sorry. Is it a cement pad? I think I think it's a cement pad that they put down. Yes. [clears throat] Yeah. It's above the That was another question. They won't penetrate the foundation. It's a pad that sits on top. Yes. And I go to

So will that be covered in the design of the operation because that pad is one thing, but you will have to have a containment area. A pad will not do it. You're going to have to have an enclosure. Will that be covered in the design? Well, I would like to add a con a 11th condition um which I'm surprised I thought myself um that they attend um design review that way all departments can have a hand in I think we they already had agreed but just to put it in the conditions because initially the drawings and things of that nature left a lot of reserve and you know everybody have all these questions so that was a part of the initial um recommendation they just couldn't get everything together to go before they came to BZA. But I do I would like to add that as a condition that they come to um developmental review um board with this project

and I think they they would be required to do that. They're going to be required to show you actual engineering and architectural plans that actually comply. We're at a use stage. You're saying, "Hey, do we authorize this use which is broadly defined in our zoning ordinance but not specifically? Is this the type of use?" And then you consider the application. Does [clears throat] it meet the requirements for development, the ground, all of these other things? Yes. But you also have the ability to add conditions um based upon your expertise as in reference to these use being the special use.

How will the comments and questions offered by the audience today be included in your additions of how would you like the comments and the questions from the board to be is the you're the board. You tell me who do you want? I can go back and review all those and it's your recommendation. I thought there were some really prevalent comments that were made. Uh the diesel, the hours of operation, the local hiring, uh things of that nature, I think would be appropriate to be included in the conditions. I would hope

environmental there's a pretty general that they must comply with all applicables. I mean everything is covered parceling out every concern when we have a general that they have to comply with all I think is too the other thing is like on the conditions we absolutely can set all the conditions we want but at some point if we have 30 conditions it becomes cumbersome and how do we enforce that going forward right so I mean I think as it's written it's very protects the city uh requires the petitioner to comply with what is out there um and will address some of the individual concerns because obviously IDM has a a process, it's got to be followed or this doesn't uh grant them permission. Same on the federal level.

Yes. And I think that these categories does holistically encompass everything um that they asked. A lot of of their questions were permitting and environmental and traffic drainage screening. um because I reviewed the documents that were submitted by them and I wanted to make sure we captured all that because we do want a sufficient project and and they are the experts. So, thank you. I also excuse me please.

I also note that uh evaporation and when the rain come and clean the air, it goes back to the ground. then back to Lake Michigan with whatever is contained in that evaporation. And my concern is still how they going to affect the environment and the native plants that grow in the area and that will be covered through items inspection.

I do have a question. I I I do support that the uh the first condition of environmental compliance is going to cover almost all of our concerns here. Uh I do I do have a question about uh potential uh hazardous materials. We have a lot of legacy sites here, industrial sites. Yes. Refineries, steel mills. Uh if there there are excavations uh in some of these areas. Uh I don't know that the uh first condition would address how do you prevent those hazardous materials from entering your property uh to be you know screened out and what happens to those materials. How do you prevent those materials from uh entering the process?

So I'm not handling the item application but I've learned a little bit about it. So my knowledge is secondhand. I'm not an environmental attorney. So that caveat as I understand that's part of the uh presentation they are making to IDM because you're right material unintended material shows up they have a screening process to identify that any of that material then needs to get they don't process that any further it gets segregated it gets transferred to a certified licensed um environmentally hazard is you know a [clears throat] landfill that receives that type of material as long as they can recognize it and if it's included in uh the first condition, I'm I'm fine with that.

I I will represent to you my knowledge is that it is and in fact that's part of you know their undertaking that they have to show and just having had a little work with other clients in this area that's kind of my understanding how that works. Thank you. And I think that would be uh also in the annual reviews we will work closely with um the environmental department as we are one city. So a lot of departments will still have a hand based upon the recommendation gives us protection and safeguards for us as a city and each department to have a um hand in this process. Mr. Fet. Yeah. I got a question. Yes sir.

How far is your plant from city life like houses and is right across down the street? Right. Right. So how how much would you uh with your environmental process would it reach over there some blowing you know we have air that's blowing over there cuz we have enough US steels uh discharging things and and I come out my house and there's dust all over my car and I just washed it uh three hours ago and it's dust about how much would that affect the uh

we're designed to have no airborne um emissions from this at all. So that's what what I understand is they basically if if a truck comes in and and this was an answer to a question I just recalled my client doesn't have trucks, right? There are folks with trucks in the industry. Those are the folks that are arriving. So, it might be it could be, you know, somebody with a as small I don't know that it's as small as a pickup truck, but it could be all different sorts of trucks. It could be electrical, it could be unled, it could be diesel. I don't know that answer, but I just can say we don't have a fleet of trucks. And then in response to your question, they wet the material and then it is dumped. So, I think that was a question. Could they have emission from dumping? My understanding is they seek to contain that process as well so that they don't have um you know during the dumping process otherwise the prop or the the soil is kept wet. So it's designed not to have those emissions or those airborne emissions and for the washing of the tires that's because you know they're in wet soils and we don't want to track wet soils onto the street and so that's what the tire scrubbing. I have a question. When your trucks come in, when trucks come in from wherever they come in from, sir,

will they be required to have a top over it so it won't blow nothing while they on their way in or how would that work? We don't have the ability to control that. I don't know that answer. I don't know how this That's a That's an indot. Yeah. Yeah, I know. But I'm I'm saying will you require them to have that or I don't know you know that's I I I think the answer is probably that's INDOT if it's required under INDOT. I mean we we don't want to we don't encourage people but we don't control them either [clears throat]

and that's all going to be conducted in the traffic um and assess the traffic assessment that's required the noise and dust mitigation screening all of the 10. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? What is your pleasure? Did you give a recommendation? Yes. I recommended approval contingent that they follow all 10 of my of 11 11 I remember. I remember 11 [clears throat] of them adding um the [snorts]

site plan review. That's why you weren't here. Site plan review. Mr. Mr. President, I move to approve uh number 2025-34 including the uh 11 conditions proposed uh by the staff and their recommendation. I'll second. It's been moved and second that we approve BZA 2025-34 [clears throat] complete with uh the 11 uh conditions. Are there any questions? All those in favor? Roll call, please. Sure. Mr. Faucet? No. Mr. Sarah? Yes. Mr. Jones?

Yes. Mr. Hawkins? Yes. Uh, we'll show by a vote of 3 to one. Uh, this receives a favorable recommendation to move on to city council. Congratulations. Uh, okay. Now, let's get back to the agenda.

[snorts] Okay. [clears throat] And other business, we have the uh official dates for 2026. So, um you [clears throat] should have received the official dates. They should be in your packet. Okay. I'm going to read them for you. Um so

we want to approve this at this meeting because um we're entering in December and so January's packets meeting are due in December. So our recommendation is that we continue to keep the second Thursday at 11:00 a.m. Um and ironically we do not have any adjustments due to holidays throughout the week. Um I'll go ahead and pass this around. But I'm not sure it um we'll we'll send that to you also in um in email. Will you s will you send a calendar invite like you did this?

I will send a calendar invite. It will continue on. Um, but uh by way of routine, I'd like to have approval by the board to adopt these because uh what we would like to do is um issue a public notice for the entire year for all of the meeting dates and we'll do that uh in the newspaper. Um, we had a question on those dates. Did you consider the potential conflict with the park board?

Uh, the park board uh today had to move their meeting due to winter weather earlier this week. So, um, this this is a time that is available for us as a standing meeting at 11 as usual. 11 as usual. the second Thursday of each month until and with your approval we will post a calendar on the website uh for any of the petitioners. That calendar establishes the meeting date and then it also establishes the application deadline,

our staff deadline to respond to the application uh and give them instructions for public notices. It gives them the dates for when they need to submit their public notices and then finally when we are posting our agenda. So there are a couple triggers in our full calendar. Do we need a motion for that? Yes. I don't know. Uh I'm sorry to to approve the calendar. I I move that we approve the calendar. We've already settled on the 11:00 and we already sell on the Thursdays and that's one of my free days. Okay, I'll second.

It's been moved and second that we approve the official date for the 2026 calendar year. Roll call, please. Mr. Faucet, yes. Mr. Sarah, yes. Mr. Jones, yes. Mr. Hawkins, yes. So, we'll show by a vote of 4 to zero the uh calendar for the rest of the year and next year has been approved. Okay. um BZA violations unlicensed business.

So we have um developed a letter that will be sent out to um unlicensed businesses and um land use violation which is height offenses um uh inappropriate setbacks development without a a permit things of those the nature that we've normally seen. And in doing that, because it's a zoning issue, they do have the ability to come to BZA 4A an administrative appeal as I'm the administrator. They will come to you all to say they do not like what the administrator said and then you all can make the decision to overturn. That is what administrative review is. That's probably what you're going to start seeing. So, I wanted to bring this to you all to let you guys know that those letters are coming out if you see them on um your docket. So information

information on BZA Ur. [clears throat]

Yeah.

Um all this is a very uh quick presentation. We have had a long meeting and I we certainly respect your time. So um my name is Corey Sharp. I serve as your director and uh we as a team, Michael Gaines, Dr. Martin, attorney Marco Molina, and attorney attorney Salona Hayes and a couple of the plan commissioners have been working this past year to rewrite the zoning code. And uh it's not a rewrite of the existing words. It's a completely new document that is in a lot of ways groundbreaking for the city of Gary. It it accomplishes um efficiencies in how we are expressing our code in written word. Uh we have established some new zoning districts and consolidated some zoning districts. For instance, we currently have um more than four business jurisdictions. We are going down to just four business jurisdictions. And we've classified them in a way that is broad and will allow for us to tackle the type of use based on its form, how it how it is, um but also its use. So we're combining a trend of formbbased code and we're also combining the traditional code which is called Uklitian and that's the type of zoning code that Gary has today. So we're combining these two standards where we're putting in development standards. We're writing an entirely new chapter for landscape standards, environmental standards, wellfield protection standards. Um we've got some solar wind

farm and um new jurisdictions that align with our comprehensive plan. That comprehensive plan establish a land use for destination and mixed use. We do not have those code regulations today. So this new code writes those regulations of what the design standards will be, what the setbacks are, how tall the buildings can be. Um, and it also incorporates new language for our residential districts that establishes um capabilities for um accessory dwelling units. [snorts] Also, we do not have a height regulation in our residential district today. So, we establish a height regulation

farm animal

uh and we uh Thank you. Uh we have a new farm animal regulation because in residential districts uh there it's popular in some places to have chickens and goats, geese. Uh so this regulation would establish how many uh they can have prior to it becoming a nuisance. Uh so um the draft of the code is online. It is at uh gary.gov/planning. I will send you a direct link to the code and uh the code is um at the plan commission. Last month's plan commission um was a full hour presentation of the code and I will also send you a link to that video so you can watch that as well. The plan commission will uh have the presentation um available to them again at this month's meeting. They will also take public input from the community at the next plan commission meeting which is next Thursday at 3:30 p.m. Then um following that uh that meeting, we will have a December plan commission meeting where we'll have the formal public hearing and uh the plan commission then can um choose to vote to adopt this new code. Because it is a new ordinance, it will go to city council for their consideration in January. So start of the year, we'll be operating underneath a a new code that directly aligns with our uh new comprehensive plan. Now along the same lines, we're also tackling um our GBL, general business license that we're also working on some code

modifications for that because our office administers those permits for people to have their businesses in the city of Gary. Um, we also will be tackling a an update to our zoning map so that we can align our map with the new code uh designations. And Dr. Sylvia Martin is a specialist in GIS and mapping. So, we're very lucky to have her talent on the team to help us efficiently manage and upload that. The beauty about this new map is that it one, it's interactive, it's online, and it's available to the public. All three things are not the case today. Uh we have a map um that Dr. Martin actually built, but it is very temporary in the standpoint of we knew we were building a new a new map. Uh so um then the last thing that we'll be working on in uh Q1 of 24 is our applications. We will be updating our applications to align with our new regulations as well.

Address management

and and and and um Dr. Martin just reminded me we are also updating our address management system. By state statute, the plan commission is the regulatory body for assigning addresses. You may notice that we have a lot of dashes. Even in a petition today, we had a dash in our digits of the address. uh that is um cumbersome, complicated, and confusing. So, uh we will be um streamlining our addresses within the city of Gary uh to make sure that our public safety and our investors and homeowners know exactly where to go. Uh so, that's on board, too. So, I will be sure to share with you these um resources for you for the unified development code. The reason why we're calling it a unified ordinance is because we're combining the subdivision control ordinance and the zoning district ordinances together. Uh so instead of having multiple different codes like we have today, we have an airport ordinance, we have a land use ordinance, we have a flood plane ordinance, and a couple others. We're pulling those all together and making them underneath one book to help everything um be cohesive. So I we won't go through the full presentation just for the sake of time.

Doc uh uh Dr. Martin and Miss Sharp. Yes. Uh I notice a popularity in the small houses being built tiny houses and we have a lot of vacant land. While you're doing your planning, would you consider setting aside an area that can accommodate that type of home. The little economy I don't

Yeah, we we do have in the new code our R1 is uh basically establishing a small lot residential and on those lots uh a home will be permitted to be built that is 900 square ft. Uh so that is a small home. It is not a tiny home. A tiny home would classify as an accessory dwelling unit on an existing property. And so those will be permitted as an accessory dwelling unit within our communities that we build already where we already got three and $400,000 houses.

Yes. Yes. So they um those accessory dwelling units would be permitted. Uh, I think we have them as a special use where you have to come through this board just like you had this special use and ask for permission to add that. Like for instance, if you wanted a mother-in-law's quarters on your property, you can add that mother-in-law's quarters. But you must have a primary structure. Yes. Okay. [snorts] We turn down

and have a primary structure. My question was, is it possible that's why you're doing your planning and your plotting that you could have a a section that deals with that rather than plan those tiny houses within every neighborhood in the city? Tiny houses on their own will not be permitted. They will they will not be permitted. So, or the storage container homes. There's a trend right now to do convert storage containers.

They are too small. Uh so that's why they would come to this board. They would say um they would come for a square foot variance or a setback variance um because they're asking to break the rules and the rules state that you can't put those tiny houses on the property by themselves. So those are not permitted. Okay. Thank you. Good understanding. Any other comments from

And the best part about our code is that the your structure is based upon your lot size. So you can't build too small for what your lot exists as and you can't build over what your lot exists as. It positions it in a place where it keeps you in the mindset of what you have available to build. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. No other no further comments. I consider today's meeting, please. Thank you. You don't really