Planning Commission / Landmarks Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'm calling the meeting of the Fulton Planning Commission to order. Today is Wednesday, June 10th, 2026. The time is 6.53. Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Commissioner Fleener. Here. Commissioner Tudor. Here. Commissioner Wayne.

Here.

Vice Chair Dino.

Here.

Chair Valadez.

Here. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. We will now take public comments on items not appearing on tonight's agenda, but within the commission's jurisdiction. Each speaker has three minutes. Please state your name and city of residence for the record. Not seeing any public comments in the chambers. Do we have any on Zoom?

5056, please unmute. On Zoom, phone number ending in 5056, did you have public comment?

You know, the hand was raised before we even started the meeting, so maybe they just, they forgot.

Okay. I see no speakers public comment is now closed there's one item tonight's consent calendar. Are there any requests from commissioners staff or the public to remove the sign.

Chair and just if I could recommend since we're now we are now up and anybody may be watching if we can just. Advise the public at home why there was a delay in the meeting. If you don't mind, I'll do so.

Oh, you want to go ahead?

Yeah. So just to clarify for anybody who may be watching this meeting remotely, there was a technical disruption in getting the two-way audio-visual platform up. So as required by SB 707, we had to spend some time trying to get it working before we could start the meeting. We were able to get it working, and that's why the meeting was late starting today. So thank you all for your patience, as well as for the patience of people in the audience. Thanks.

Thank you.

Please.

Caller 5056, please unmute. Hello, can you hear me?

Hi, can you hear me?

Yes, if you could just talk up just a little bit.

Okay, yes. Sorry about that. For some reason, my phone wasn't allowing me. My name is Jensen Hallstrom. Good evening, Planning Commission and city staff. My public comment this evening, and I do appreciate the explanation for the delay in a meeting. I was on the phone for about 20 minutes just trying to see if the meeting was still gonna happen. But my public comment mostly has to do with considerations that must be made for future developments in fullerton regarding the goals of the city to have adequate canopy cover within our urban forest citywide it's really disappointing to see just how many new developments are going up planting uh pretty much only palm trees uh which are which are clearly known not to cast the shade and the canopy cover of large shade trees. And this is very concerning because there are actual ordinances which describe a minimum amount of shade coverage expected for parking lots. Fullerton Municipal Code Section 15.21.060 This section outlines that there is a 50% tree canopy shade requirement for general parking areas within 15 years of a parking lot being constructed, so it would seem as I'm reading the code. 50% shade cover. I can't think of many parking lots in Fullerton that have 50%, let alone even a quarter or 10% shade cover. A lot of this has to do with the poor species selection, such as palm trees and non-native tree species, which are not well acclimated to our climate and therefore either grow very stunted or die early on. But also the actual pruning of these trees, many new trees that are planted in new developments such as the car wash over at Hornstorp and Lemon, that car wash, the trees that they planted, you know, that are supposed to be shading the sidewalk on the east side of the car wash and the south side, they top all of their trees and keep them as little ornaments, you know, not letting them grow at all and develop canopies that shade trees. public infrastructure, such as the sidewalks. This is just so crazy to me that we have an urban forest management plan, yet we don't have real goals for new developments and, you know, having guidelines and enforcing these guidelines. So this is just something that I hope the Planning Commission can begin to incorporate elements of good urban forest.

Okay, that's not happening. Thank you. Any other comments?

No more speakers.

Okay. So we'll close it again, the public comments. We'll go to the consent calendar. Are there any requests from commissioners, staff, or the public to remove this item? Seeing none, is there a motion to approve the consent calendar?

I'll move it. Second.

Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Commissioner Fleener. Yes. Commissioner Tudor.

Yes.

Commissioner Wayne.

Aye.

Vice Chair Dino. Yes. Chair Valadez.

Aye. The motion passes. Next is Commissioner's communication disclosures regarding tonight's agenda item. Commissioners, do you have any disclosures to report? I'll start with my left.

None.

Am I right? None? Okay. Thank you. So we'll move to item number two under the public hearings, request to rezone properties within the lower Golden Hill neighborhood. The area is generally bounded by Richmond on the east, Leland Avenue on the west, Malvern on the south, and Glenhaven on the north. Staff, can you please present?

Yes, sir. So our public hearing, as you stated, is a zoning amendment to rezone properties of Lower Golden Hair neighborhood. I will show the PowerPoint. And Associate Planner Benjamin Coff will do the presentation.

Good evening, Chair Valadez and members of the Planning Commission. This item concerns a neighborhood referenced as, or excuse me, referred to as Lower Golden Hills.

Next slide, please.

The request, as Chris mentioned, is a zoning amendment to rezone the properties in that neighborhood from R17.2 to R17.2P, the P representing the historic preservation zone. Next slide, please. The Lower Golden Hill neighborhood is generally described as the properties bounded by Richmond Avenue on the east West Leland Avenue on the west Glen Haven Avenue on the north and West Malvern Avenue on the south. Next slide please. Little timeline on this project on January 19th 2025 the city received a request to reclassify the Lower Golden Hill neighborhood to a residential preservation zone. This is included as an attachment to the staff report. PURSUANT TO THE MUNICIPAL CODE, THE CITY HELD AN INFORMATIONAL MEETING ON MAY 29, 2025. A SIGN-IN SHEET IDENTIFIED 14 PROPERTIES REPRESENTED AT THE INFORMATIONAL MEETING. THE MEETING WAS HELD TO EXPLAIN THE PRESERVATION ZONE IMPLICATIONS AND THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS FOR ITS IMPLEMENTATION. is included as an attachment to the staff report. Fullerton Heritage also provided a handout pertaining to the Lower Golden Hill neighborhood and residential preservation zones. Next slide please. After the informational meeting Fullerton Heritage provided a petition for property owners to sign in support or opposition of the preservation zone. Volunteers also went door to door of the subject neighborhood to circulate the petition. As of the date of the staff report preparation, the volunteers were able to achieve a 76% response rate. This slide shows 60% of property owners in support of the request. The petition meets the minimum requirements of 51% of the property owners in support of a zone change, allowing for the Director of Community and Economic Development to initiate the zoning amendment and consider the request to reclassify the neighborhood to a residential preservation zone. Next slide, please. This map shown above is a map of existing preservation zones in the city. The first preservation zone was established in 1996 this map illustrates six neighborhoods that received a preservation zone overlay. However, does not reflect the most recent preservation zones adopted by the city, including presidents have upper golden hills and West Wilshire woods and wicked square. identified at the Community meeting and discussed in the staff report. preservation zone has certain development standards and review criteria, it includes design guidelines for construction, it allows for new development and additions, including accessory dwelling units. Preservation zone is considered a historic district and would not for allow for a two unit housing development under SP nine referred to as an urban lot split. properties within a preservation zone meet the definition of a qualified historical property making them eligible for the mills act program next slide please. So a little bit about the zone itself, the majority of the homes in the subject neighborhood were built in the through the early. At the time of development of Golden Hill Fullerton was experiencing a severe housing shortage despite the need for new housing all development was concentrated in the fly areas just around the city center and the original town site the opening. and development of upper and lower hill changed some of the development patterns or before those areas were considered too far out or prohibitively expensive to bring in gas electrical telephone and other utilities. Lower golden hill with the attractive and affordable middle class homes provided much needed housing for the working class in fullerton. Notable Fullerton building contractor Evan J. Herbert designed and built numerous residences in Lower Golden Hill, setting the architectural tone for the neighborhood. His Spanish colonial revival and cottage-style homes established the first architectural pattern for residences. Although a few original dwellings have been severely modified, most of the homes within Lower Golden Hill retain a high degree of historic integrity, and the historic district looks very much like it did in the 1920s and 1930s. Overall, the historic district has aged well and still conveys its original development pattern as a single-family residential development. Next slide, please. Another thing to note is that the neighborhood includes several designated local landmarks and significant properties. A list of them is provided above. Next slide please. As shown on the slide and in the staff report the proposal meets several goals and policies of the Fullerton plan. Excuse me. Skip the head. The staff report included photos of some of the residences in the neighborhood. Fullerton heritage provided a preliminary historical narration for each of the affected properties. This was also included in the staff report. Next slide please Chris. And one more. On May 21st of this year, the city sent a public hearing notice to property owners within a 300-foot radius of the site. The notice was also posted on the city's website and at the Maintenance Services Department, Main Library, Museum Center, and City Hall on the public notice boards. After notices were posted and mailed, three letters of opposition and two letters of support were received by city staff. The comments include a request from the property owner of 600 West Union to be excluded from the preservation zone. These letters were added to the project record. Next slide please. Staff recommends approval of the resolution as identified in the staff report and shown on the screen. The Planning and Landmarks Commission decision this evening is a recommendation to the City Council. This concludes my presentation.

Thank you very much. Is Fulton Heritage have a presentation at all? Mr. Kelsey, thank you.

Good evening, Chairman, Commissioners, staff. Nice seeing you all. We don't have a formal presentation, but I can just talk about the effort that the neighbors went through. It shows 60% approval, but when you take it out those that they couldn't get a hold of or had no opinion It's more like seventy eight point seven because there were 19 homes that either had no opinion or they couldn't get a hold of so this is involving over 200 door knocks, so I gave out porch packets to each home so there was information in here about what it means there was Q FAQs there was pages from the community presentation so this was done a year ago tomorrow so we've been out there for over a year trying to get people's to vote on this so we're at where we're at now which is seventy eight point seven of those with an opinion you heard it's a great neighborhood it's kind of interesting that we had a housing crisis back then and so they started to go up in the hills which they thought was kind of crazy because it was so far from downtown and these are actually kind of working family homes they're a little smaller than Upper Golden Hill they're not so custom but it's a very deserving neighborhood and I believe if we pass this and it moves forward to the council and gets passed it will be our 14th historic district So I have stuff here if you guys want it. We do have the porch packets that had information that I did bring copies if you guys had never seen them. And I believe there's some neighbors that want to talk about it and support also. But I just urge you to let's get this moving to the council so we can get a yes or no on it. All right. And then I can I'll be here if you have any questions.

DIRECTOR DEWOLF. Excellent. Thank you very much.

DIRECTOR BURKE.

Thank you. DIRECTOR DEWOLF. We will now take public comments on the item from chambers. Are there any comments.

My name is Stephanie Howard, Placentia resident, and I'm here representing my family's home on the double parcel located at 600 West Union and 651 North Golden. We have been approached twice by a representative, and both times have declined to move forward with a historical designation. For the record, we oppose the historical designation and want to be excluded from the preservation zone. One hundred years ago, my great-grandparents, Elton and Adeline McCoy, were the original purchasers of this home. And this is where my family's contribution to Fullerton's history begins. They started a tractor and tire store in downtown Fullerton in 1930. And many of you know today as McCoy Mills Ford or Fullerton Ford. The legacy of both the home and the dealership then passed to my grandparents, Bill and June Miller, currently to my parents, Jim and April Miller. And this is the first home I have ever known and will be the fourth generation to live there. As you can imagine, over the past 100 years, this is not the original home that was built in 1926. Looking at the original real estate ad I handed you, there is no longer a tennis court or croquet grounds. A swimming pool was added. The front porch and entry has been changed dramatically. The large bay window that housed a sunroom is no more. The massive fountain on the corner is only a memory. Every original window, door has been remodeled, removed, resized. No shutters, no original light fixtures, no original electrical or plumbing fixtures, no decorative arches above the windows, and no iron below. The backyard wall has been moved, a second story added above the garage. The back steps have been rebuilt. The kitchen has been pushed out to the south and the west. The garage and its second story that stood detached are now connected. Due to a remodel which swallowed a portion of the backyard to the south, the Rose Garden was removed to accommodate a semicircle driveway. The pool house has been renovated multiple times. The majority of the roof tiles have been replaced and no longer exist. While the character of the home remains, it is not the same home that was built in the 20s. I appreciate the history behind the homes in Golden Hill, and I support individual homes opting in on their own accord. This is not just about the city of Fullerton's history to me. 600 West Union is a representation of the history of my family in Fullerton and the contribution to the city. We have been active in many aspects of Fullerton's culture and will continue to be. The most important part of Fullerton culture is the families who have contributed through business, charity, rotary clubs, nonprofits, churches, neighborhoods, schools, and colleges. I believe all these factors are more important to the community than any building. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, Planning Commissioners. Elijah Manicero. I think that the historical case for this preservation zone is credible, but I think my biggest issue with it is the lack of buy-in from the other people in this neighborhood. If you proceed with this, you are taking away the property rights of the people who do not support this. You're telling them that they can't remodel their home how they want, their own property that they own. And I think if you're going to do that, that you should do that with their consent, not without their consent. And just because some people didn't respond to being contacted or didn't have an opinion, that doesn't mean that they understood the implications of this policy. And it doesn't mean that they want their property rights to be by the city of Fullerton. Your right to, your control over the design of property is limited by your property lines. And I think that if people want to do this on an individual basis, that's fine. But to impose this on people who who either don't understand the implications or, um, uh, oppose it. Uh, I think that that's an overreach. This is a city, this is a city of Fullerton. It is not an HOA board. Uh, so if someone buys a property in an HOA board and then design guidelines are being pushed on them, that's one thing. because they knew what they were buying into but this is city government and I think that the historical case either needs to be stronger or there needs to be far more buy-in from the residents to pursue this preservation zone so thank you any more comments and chambers

Within the historic district that's being proposed um Actually, I'm just going to read the letter that I sent just for the benefit of others Excuse me, sorry my three minutes as a longtime homeowner in the lower Golden Hill area of our city I am happy that these streets and their beautiful and unique homes are going to get a chance to be designated as historic district this pocket of streets is without a doubt my neighbors and I think just as historically significant and worth preserving as the upper Golden Hill area that it borders lately I noticed that the historic district signs had gone up in the upper Golden Hill neighborhood the signs are tasteful and attractive and they draw one's attention to the obvious that the homes on these streets are something to be recognized as special they are to be preserved and treasured Not just for the pleasure of looking at them as we walk by, but also because their uniqueness and beauty add to everyone's property values and the attractiveness of Fullerton itself. I think that we've all had the experience of having friends from other cities visit and rave about the charm of these streets and their architecturally unique homes. We are so very fortunate to live here. Some might take it for granted and feel that there's no need for preservation efforts. Please, let's not take anything for granted. My neighbors and I encourage the members of the Planning Commission to decide in favor of the Lower Golden Hills designation as a historic district. Thank you.

Thank you. Any more comments? One more.

Craig Barnes 649 Drake my house was built in the 70s I fully support historic districts I used to have a house in Anaheim that was 30 in 1935 built and that we did did get a historic house in the district but my house doesn't need that and we want to build a to use I don't want to get any kind of I don't want to have any problems getting the permits of a to use But I do support this kind of move but not not from my house Okay, thank you one more

good evening chair commissioners and city staff my name is lynette komisarski and i am a resident of lower golden hills and i'm here to respectfully oppose the proposal to rezone our neighborhood as a historical preservation zone i'd like to start by acknowledging the value of historic preservation Fullerton has neighborhoods with true architectural cohesion and documented historical significance. Lower Golden Hills is not one of them. Our area was built over many decades with a wide mix of styles, renovations, and additions. It simply does not meet the standards that typically justify a preservation overlay. This designation would also place real financial and practical burdens on homeowners. Restrictions such as exterior materials, paint colors, and even routine repairs can add thousands of dollars to basic maintenance. These rules limit our ability to improve energy efficiency, adapt homes for accessibility, or make reasonable updates for family additions and growing families. Before imposing that level of regulation, there must be a clear public benefit. that case simply has not been made finally this rezoning risks unintended consequences for property values and housing flexibility buyers often avoid homes and preservation zones due to higher costs and regulatory hurdles at a time when fullerton is working to balance housing needs and affordability adding new restrictions in a neighborhood without cohesive historic character works against those goals there are better Lighter touch ways to recognize the area's history, such as voluntary programs or educational efforts without burdening all the homeowners within Lower Golden Hills. Each homeowner has the ability to go through a program to have their home designated as a historical property, but many do not want that. For these reasons, I respectfully urge you to reject the proposed historic preservation rezoning for lower Golden Hills and consider the property rights of each individual homeowner, please. Thank you for your time and for your service to our city.

Thank you. If we're done in chambers with comments, do we have any comments on Zoom?

No hands raised.

We will now go to, does the applicant, I guess, Mr. Kelsey, who's the applicant in this situation? Is it Fulton Heritage? Any responses or rebuttals to the comments made?

Thank you. I've worked on this is probably my ninth one ninth district eighth district. So we hear a lot of the same concerns about like extra government interference in owning your home and the ability to lose your rights as a homeowner. And so you know a preservation zone just adds a couple more steps. There's not even an extra cost if you're in a preservation zone to do plans. There's no paint restrictions. You can paint your house. The city does frown on neon and metallic colors. So people that want to work on their house can work on their house in a preservation zone. I encourage anybody to drive through any preservation zone in the city and look at all the ADUs that are being built. I've had six of them built around my home in a preservation zone. So I think there's just kind of a feeling that this is going to cost more and it's going to limit what you can do to your home. So it does look at external materials. So if you have a craftsman and you're going to build an ADU, The city already wants it to look like the front house. They want it to match and then a preservation zone helps push that along. So if you drive around to some of the preservation zone over on Yale there's a 2000 square foot front yard ADU. So and that's in a preservation zone so things are happening in preservation zones. People are building what they want. That's something that the city is going to look at at our codes because we don't think that that's something that historic districts want our big large ADUs in the front yard. So I think some of what we heard just now I'm passionate. I love the McCoy house up on Golden. It's a beautiful home. I think it's a nice anchor for that neighborhood. It has been changed over the years but to the speaker it has retained its charm and it's a good anchor home for that entire neighborhood. So I just really and I think the city knows there's not a huge amount of. Change change once you become in a preservation zone. And then if you become a preservation zone, your house is eligible to apply for the Mills Act, which does and could possibly lower your maintenance costs through a historic home maintenance property tax reduction program. So that would, I'm not saying everybody would get it, but it is something that becomes available for people that are in a preservation zone.

Questions? Thank you. Do we want to ask some questions now?

Yeah, if that's okay. One of the questions, I believe I heard Fullerton Heritage did this survey, correct?

It's a petition. So yeah, we had a petition and then

We put it together and then the I didn't but homeowners in the neighborhood went door-to-door Over time so like I said this started over a year ago So my specific question on that was the Property owners was the phrase used was it property owners over renters included in the copy owners is who we tried to get to yeah And those would be my only questions for you if if we want to ask mr. Kelsey and then you can sit down and

Um, actually, I do have a quick question. Can individual homeowners exclude themselves from a neighborhood if they want?

You know, it depends. Like, part of this neighborhood that's towards the west is not included, some of the newer and newer homes. one of our historic districts has some newer homes in it on my block there was a house that exploded in 1949 and they built a new house in 1952 the rest of the houses are all in the 20s and the 300 block of Brookdale was developed more in the 40s and 50s so having an eclectic style of homes in the neighborhood isn't necessarily a bad thing

Is it critical for a preservation zone to have all the homes on the streets?

Yeah, that's what you're trying to honor is the entire district. So, you know, to carve out one house in the middle is difficult. And, again, it's not really going to change very much. You know, again, I'm trying to get at the base of this is kind of some unfounded concerns about how the city is going to treat people in a preservation zone. And I don't, you know, I live in one, and I don't. know I think all of our housing prices to address kind of the affordability it doesn't scare realtors away they may not want to talk about it because they don't know it very well but you know there's this constant churn I get a listing of every home that's for sale in a preservation zone and they they turn pretty quickly so I don't think it's a detriment to have a preservation zone

I just have a question about the one comment the first comment I think it sounded like there was have been an awful lot of changes made to that home. I have no idea if it matches with a general style in the area or not, but after they've made all those changes could they potentially be restricted from continuing along that path of whatever look their house has I

like they had stated it's retained its charm I mean it's been changed but it's retained its charm and I I don't it's hard to speak to I don't know what would be next to do to the house maybe in another story on it I'm not sure what would want to be done but again I think it looks like the rest of the neighborhood it's got roots from the 20s it has been modified but it still has is a very charming house sure so kind of to tack on to that would so let's say just for argument's sake there's three or four houses that want to opt out how does that affect the overall application you know if they were happened to be on like one side all in a row that you you want a continuous contiguous area when you do this it can't be kind of no yes no yes so that would be difficult

So, but if they did choose that option, they could.

It would be hard because everything surrounding it, it would be part of it.

Can you kind of explain how that benefits, how Mills Act and how overall zone would affects, I mean, could they in theory apply without there being a zone?

for Mills Act no you'd have to be either a local landmark or within a preservation zone and again remember the Mills Act it was approved in the city we do ten contracts a year so it's not like there's hundreds of contracts so but it is available to anybody that lives in a preservation zone or owns a local landmark

So, Mr. Kelsey, what I'm kind of trying to get at is how can we address this resident's concern and the other resident's concern who don't want it? Like, I mean, I understand the need for it logically, but I also understand that there are neighbors who literally don't want to be in it, and we've heard from at least two or three of them tonight.

so i'm i'm just trying to figure out what their option what their options are well you know this process is kind of a a petition an old-fashioned door-to-door process to see how many people support it and how many people oppose it so right now there's more people that support it sixty percent seventy eight if you take out the people without an opinion or no contact so those are the numbers that we see in other districts so i guess it's kind of how america's made that when you do things sometimes the majority gets wins and gets to have it. And again if it happens it's not like life is going to change dramatically within the neighborhood.

DIRECTOR DEWOLF. So maybe this is more of a staff question than for you directly. My other concern, could you explain how SB9 and the lot split and how it might be more difficult to, let's say, build an ADU if this were to go through? And maybe that's more of a staff question.

I'll let staff address that.

Thank you. Yeah.

So as far as ADU build goes ADUs are permitted by right on R1 lots. These are all R1 7.2. Same standards would apply as far as architectural compatibility mimicking the style of the existing single family dwelling. So if it's single hung windows and siding we're replicating those features on the ADU roof pitch materials all of those exterior elements. SB 9 is a different process for either urban lot split or a multi-unit development. Explicit in that law is that it cannot occur on a historic property. Being brought into a historic district would disqualify property owners from making use of the SB 9 legislation.

DIRECTOR HERSEY- Could you explain kind of the definition of character versus what like what's allowed versus what's not allowed.

I'm not sure I understand the question.

And maybe this is more of a question for Mr. Kelsey. You mentioned the character, the McCoy house was in character of the neighborhood, but let's say they were to make another change. Does that mean that if they're in the zone, in the preservation zone, then it would have to go through what rules restrictions are part of the preservation zone?

So as far as the exterior materials of the home go we would want to see any addition any modification to the home to be in alignment with what's already on site. So if it's a craftsman home a California bungalow whatever it might be we're not looking for a big glass panel to go up on the side and something super modern but something that honors the original context of the home. So similar. Materials you know if it was something that was built in the 20s and we don't have access to that material that replicates the look the feel everything else to create a you know consistent look. So if. Speaker tonight was to add to their home and we're in a preservation district we would look to see that if it's a mission style home or Spanish colonial whatever it might be that the materials finishes colors those exterior features

Under that style Thank you Mr.

Chair, I just like to clarify an sp9 because we kind of glossed over it sp9 is a state law that allows a Property owner to split his lot in half build a house on each lot plus an ad you on each one plus a junior ad you so technically a person with a single-family house can now have six units on a lot and So by having historic district in place, that would not be allowed. ADUs would be allowed so you could still have a house in the ADU and a junior ADU, so that's three. But with SB 9, you could have six units. So that's something that happened during the Upper Golden Hill discussion because there was a property that was looking at SB 9 and the neighbors were not. thrilled about that and so that was that hasten that that hearing to go through a little quicker so with that so chris with that necessarily mean that this adds an additional and start preservation zone would add in another step to building an adu or no no it 80s are still the same way we're still going to request that the adu be compatible with the main structure What we're saying is SB 9 is off the table, so if you have a historic district, SB 9 is no longer applicable.

But if it's not a preservation zone, then SB 9 is still on the table?

Correct.

Got it. Okay.

Thank you. Sure. Please.

Yeah, I just have another question about the 19 houses where there was no response. Could they have been rentals, in which case, I remember when I was on the infrastructure commission, renters would often ignore high water bills since they didn't have to pay them. And this same thing could happen if those houses are rentals where the renter is getting the notification and not passing that along to the owner. And if that is the case, is there a way of reaching out to the owner of that property? Because we could have a lot of property owners be very surprised when they try to do something. Just a question about whether that was looked into. Okay.

Yes, we tried to contact the owners of the structure of the residents, not the renters. That included mailing about 10 different packets to different people. Ms. Decoff was out trying to deliver them. So they were doing everything we could to get to the owners. And I'll just point out that was over a year ago. So there's been plenty of time for people to come out and be heard either letters or for this meeting and that's why we're having this meeting because it didn't eventually you'll get it to the next board and then we'll do this again so it's more about following a process and that's what we're in the middle of right now so we did our best to reach everybody

We had record of which houses were occupied by renters And we did not approach any houses in which renters in which tenants lived but We had the addresses of the owners some were out of state and I either mailed or drove to the owners homes to leave the packet So yeah, there wasn't any confusion about leaving the information with Tenants or trying to speak to tenants about this we went directly to the owners in the cases where the homes were occupied by tenants and

Generally, I'm supportive of preservation zones, and I actually live in one. But to play devil's advocate a little bit on this issue, if you want to build an ADU in a different style, how there's no opportunity for the homeowner to build it, let's say, if it's craftsmen to go ahead and build it as a modern homeowner.

So historic preservation zone or not in the city's adopted aid you ordinance we have architectural compatibility requirement that talks about basically the same. Issues roof slope materials windows doors trim colors all of those items so it's not exclusive to developing in a preservation zone where that architectural compatibility requirement would need to be satisfied. And who enforces that again is that. So in planning's review of submitted building permit for an ADU we check for those things.

And if they decide just for edification if they build something different what happens in that case.

So if they built something that wasn't reflective of what was on the plans right then it's subject to code enforcement building inspection wouldn't final it. Yeah they need to construct what was approved.

Definitely, I guess I've heard before and I guess this is more anecdotally Maybe the staff can discuss it a little bit more ways of how to strengthen the preservation zone Is this a discussion maybe for in the future? so because Is it wrong for me to believe that? There's workarounds for homeowners if they decide not to follow the rules currently with the current how we have the preservation zone early I

For most projects depending on the intensity of it they can be subject to additional levels of review whether it's at the staff level something like director's determination or a minor site plan. For most of the big additions especially construction of a second story or expansion over 50 percent planning is going to have a minor site plan process for it. As far as workarounds. i'd say it's anything that any other homeowner that savvy might might think of um but as far as strengthening the zones themselves it's really the community buy-in that brings us to the meeting this evening it's not a city-led initiative we just process what's brought to us so once ernie and fullerton heritage and the property owners get together the requisite amount of Signatures 51% or more than we're able to move forward with something like this.

Yeah, I have tied tied to the adu question I remember that I don't know they're out yet, but I know we had I think three plans That were coming out that were going to be standard plans. You could use so you didn't need to get an architect Would those still be Able to be used in the preservation Jonah zone or would they not know the state of California says we have to have pre-approved plans that we Have available for anybody that wants them

So all the cities are doing it. And we're close to having those ready, but we haven't finished them quite yet. So the state is mandating that we streamline the construction of ADUs as much as possible. And so that's one of the methods to have pre-approved plans on hand.

So, I mean, would a homeowner not be able to use that in a preservation zone if the roof angle was not the same as their house?

We're going to allow it.

Okay. Commissioners, any other questions?

I just wanted to clarify with staff. I live in Golden Hill, not in either of these zones, Upper or Lower Golden Hill. I have several friends in the upper Golden Hill area who have remodeled recently after the designation. And being on Planning Commission, if they had a problem, I would have heard of it. And none of them complained of any problems. None of them talked about extra hoops to go through. Within that area, there are very, there's 1920s homes, there's 1940s homes. There's some 60s homes. It's a big mix. You know, and the upper area I'm speaking of. And none of them had issues with that, with getting any kind of permits or any. So while I respect the concerns of the public commenters, what I want to clarify with staff is are that those concerns are not valid concerns. If somebody comes in and wants to put an ADU in, in a preservation zone, you're saying that's not gonna be a problem, and they can put a junior ADU in. So they can already put three units on a property, single family residence property. This doesn't have any effect on that. And if they're just gonna remodel their their regular home on they essentially will have No real extra criteria over what already exists Well, like I'll give you an example like if you have a bungalow and it's got wood siding Obviously, we're not gonna approve somebody removing all the wood siding and putting on stucco

So that's something we're going to enforce. Or if they have single hung windows, we're not going to allow them to put in aluminum sliders.

Now, is that specific to the preservation zone?

That's the preservation zone. But it's got to be specific to that type of architecture. So we're going to look at it on a case-by-case basis. But obviously, we want it to match the style of architecture for that particular structure.

Right.

Okay so if you're in a 1960s home then yeah that's that's right we're not going to make them put in wood siding or something you know it's going to be you know relevant to that particular structure and style of architecture.

Okay and then on as far as. Purchasing a home or selling a home. This isn't going to have any impact other than market forces that may be that people want to live in a historic area or may not want to live in a historic area. But as far as costs involved with governance, there's nothing No connection there, right?

Right. Before, we used to charge a higher fee for plan reviews, and now we've removed that. So plan review fees are the same for historic districts and non-historic districts. And then you have the added benefit of getting the Mills Act, which you wouldn't have otherwise.

Right. Okay. Those are all my questions for staff.

We'll go ahead and open up. You have a public comment?

Barnes again 649 Drake Avenue Fullerton you're saying that the property value wouldn't change any but it could scare off potential buyers for the house with it being a in a preservation zone you know they might not know what the restrictions are and they might think it's more like of HOA they might get scared and not want to buy the house you know if they don't want to stay in the historic zone

Okay, thank you for your comment. I do have one question. Beyond preservation zones, is there any other options? Is there a neighborhood conservation district I've read about? Is that something you've ever looked into? I'm not familiar with that.

I can look into that, but I'm not aware of that.

Okay, we'll go ahead and we'll close the public hearing. Commissioners? Okay, please. We'll open it up again.

And if there are any other comments if you can please line up so we can go ahead and finish I Am a recent buyer in this district and I moved into my house in Mid July last year after three desperate months of trying to find a house There were multiple offers on my little house that was built in 1930 I paid top dollar for it and it the price was not impeded at all by the fact that efforts to declare a preservation zone were well in effect. Excuse me, I'm getting over a cold. I live next door to Ray and Kitty Sly, who are members of Fullerton Heritage. And Ray was going out on the weekends and obtaining signatures. There is a duplex right beside me, but the duplexes are so nicely situated I didn't even know it was a duplex on that street. So I guess what I'm saying is from a new buyer's point of view, I didn't experience some cut in price because of the efforts to declare the preservation zone. Also one of the people that was commenting said something about it would be more difficult to make your home energy efficient. And I did do some research into whether or not my wanting to put in a new air conditioning or I wanted to add a water softening system. None of that was affected or would be affected by the preservation zone. So I don't think that that's a concern at all. And if anybody needs any roof tiles I have a whole bunch of them in my crawl space under the house.

DIRECTOR DEWOLF. Thank you. Okay. So we'll definitely close it after you two for public comments and then. DIRECTOR HARRIS.

I just wanted to address you asked if we're going to do any remodeling on the McCoy house. One of the only things I want to do there are only two showers in that whole home. And I would like to put another bathroom upstairs which would require another window. So my understanding is if I put another window in there. would have to match the state of the 20s we have all Pella windows right now so if I have one wood window that I would assume is required that I would have to match everything if I wanted to look at this

Staff can you give us more information on that?

That's a question that comes up a lot. So we don't actually make them put in a wood window per se. It has to just look similar. There's like composites and other materials, plastics that look like a wood window, but they're not actually wood. So we're not going to say you've got to put in a really expensive wood window. It just has to look the same or very similar.

But for us, we would like everything to match. I mean, that's kind of the. vibe at a home. So we would be having to replace every window in our house or one window. No, I mean, you're not saying I have to, but we would, if we're going to replace one window, we don't want one odd window that doesn't match what we have.

Can they replace all the windows if they decided to?

It's a case-by-case basis. We have to look at it. It's hard for me to answer that.

I'm just saying our house is the white elephant in the neighborhood, and there's a lot more money that's going to go into it than

typical home so I think overall the person that we have is that they're very flexible I did a remodel my house it was in a preservation zone and wasn't melt met with any difficulties so two more comments please thank you so I just want to address the the issue that the staff has brought in terms of like the permitting so there there are practices and procedures in place currently

for permits that allow for the preservation in terms of keeping with the character of the neighborhood, the character of the home. And so it doesn't seem that it really is necessary to go through this extra hurdle of designating this as a preservation zone, especially when you have 60% that have responded, 40%, which is the more accurate count, if they have not responded or have opposed it. So then there's a mandate for everyone. And so there still remains the option for individuals for the preservation the historical society individual homeowners to pursue the historical designation as a landmark but not doing a wide sweep of everyone as you know like our neighbors have talked about wanting to do certain elements to their home and then having to go through extra hurdles or being denied So I think it's really a property rights. And so there's I would implore to do no harm and let it stay as it is.

Thank you.

I was just going to speak as a recent. We bought our home on Golden during Covid and we actually moved from Amherst Heights where we had lived for 12 years and we specifically moved to that neighborhood because of. The amazing homes. I live on the same street as the home that we've been discussing. It is amazing and it's Spanish style and. It would it. It looks wonderful. It does not stick out like a sore thumb. I love it. We walk by it every single night. My particular home we purchased it because it was historic. It was built in 1927. And we came especially for that. Paid top dollar as well. The neighborhood's amazing. It just is. And so I'm really supportive of getting it preserved, especially coming from a part of Fullerton that is newer. I can really appreciate the historic value of where we are. Thank you.

Thank you. Now I will close public comments. And somehow I feel I'll get a lecture about this afterwards. Commissioners, please, if you want to deliberate this issue a little bit more. I'll start with you, Commissioner Wayne.

As far as deliberation, I'm supportive of this. I think this went very well for Upper Golden Hill, and there's a very good success rate. And I don't know if any of us have heard of any complaints from other historic zones that have been named. So I'm supportive of this.

I'm also leaning in that direction because we have had, this is not the first one of these we've done, we've done several and nothing has ever come back to us about issues that were caused and also here we have people saying that there's a lot of flexibility and people who've had experience with this themselves and have been able to work through without major problems. Change is scary sometimes, but it but I think with from what I've seen this This staff works with people and I think you'll see the flexibility So I'm for it Thank you Vice-chair

I was leaning one way at the beginning of this discussion tonight, and I've changed my mind when it comes to my support of the zone. I think the McCoy House definitely is, your concerns are valid. But I do believe that there's sort of a flexibility within the preservation zone that at least as far as my experience goes on commission, that they're warranted, but the staff can be very flexible. And this commission can be very flexible. So if you do want to implement those changes, I can't see any reason why not moving forward. So I would be supportive. Obviously, I do have concerns about being able to opt out of a preservation zone. And I think that's something that I think we need to talk about with Florida Heritage moving forward and what happens with those who either don't respond or for whatever reason want to opt out. And I think that's a valid conversation to be had for the future. But for tonight, I think I would be supportive. Thank you.

Commissioner Flanagan?

Yes, I'm generally very supportive of historic homes. I live in a historic residence or very close in age to one. But it just doesn't seem like many people are on the same page here, which makes me believe that there would be a lot of negative sentiment around creating this historic zoning. You know, obviously, It's great to be a homeowner, but it seems like this zoning is really feeling threatening to some people's sense of security within their home of how they might want to move forward with changes and additions and what they might want to do with it. So as much as I might You know, if I was a neighbor in this neighborhood, feel that I would like this, that doesn't necessarily matter because it might not honor the emotions of. The, you know, the group, so I feel like I have to say no.

Overall, I'm satisfied that the property owners were sufficiently, were adequately informed. And I think there's sufficient neighborhood support. But concerning the issues that I've brought up, I think it's definitely something that we have to take a look again on preservation zones. Saying that, can I have a motion, please?

I would love, as a lifetime resident of Golden Hill, to be the one to make the motion to approve this.

Can I get a second?

I will second it.

Madam Clerk, please, can I have the roll?

Commissioner Fleener? No. Commissioner Tudor?

Yes.

Commissioner Wayne?

Aye.

Vice Chair Dino?

Yes.

Chair Valadez?

Aye. The motion passes. Is there, do I have to read?

You could. So this item is appealable within 10 days. However, it should also be made clear that The commission's action tonight was a recommendation to the council with findings, which means that the item is already moving to the council.

Thank you. We will now move to commission and staff communications. Commissioners, any questions for staff on other issues?

Yes, I don't know whether we could talk about it, but if we can is there an update on what's happening with the Hermosa property No So the item will be coming before the council again other than that it's up to the council okay I

Vice Chair?

Yeah. Mr. Schaffer? Mr. Schaffer, I just wanted to kind of restate the question that I posed to you before the meeting in regard to, we all were aware of what happened in Garnet Grove over the last couple weeks. What protections do the residents of Fullerton have, and how would that go if, let's say, there was a potential leak or explosion or or something as far as from a business perspective or even from a city perspective.

Sure. So the city manager is leaning forward on this particular issue. So he's reached out to all the departments to verify if any industries or businesses in the city have similar types of setups where they have chemicals that are stored on the property. Plain apartment in general, when we approve businesses, we just look at the general business. We don't look at the specific chemicals they use. However, the fire department does do that. They do an annual inspections and they check all the chemicals that are used on on properties. And there's a requirement to have a placard on each bill building that identifies any hazardous materials that are stored or used on site. So the city manager is working this issue right now. to find out any properties that have hazardous materials on site. So more to follow.

If we were to ask, either amend our code or do something to make sure when it comes to the permitting process in the future, I mean, what would be some of our options? Or would we have any options at that point?

Currently, our zoning ordinance looks at businesses that create noxious odors or smells or noises, and they're kind of general. To get more specific to talk about those types of chemicals, we'd have to look at updating the zoning ordinance. But that's a little more, probably a longer prospect or project.

Yeah, and I think that was something that you and I had talked about because I almost feel like I just want to make sure it doesn't happen in Fullerton. Sure, absolutely. Moving forward because it could have touched Fullerton pretty easily, and I just want to make sure that our codes and code enforcement is kind of up to par so that we're safe. But that was it for my questions.

Can I ask an add-on question to that? Because now I'm wondering, do we happen to, I mean, because that just wasn't a hazardous material. That was a potentially very dangerous hazardous material. Do we have any hazardous materials at that level of danger?

The fire department would know that. Planning, we don't have that information.

Okay. Even though they're CEPs? Yeah. They don't state we are a chemical business. It could be a potential hazard.

No. The zoning ordinance doesn't get down to that level of detail. It talks about types of businesses. We don't get into how they manufacture things or what materials they use, per se. Only if there's some noxious odors that are being generated or that type of thing. And we don't talk about amounts of chemicals on site in the zoning ordinance. That gets very specific. Maybe in the future. I've worked for six cities. I'm familiar with six different ordinances, and none of them got to that level of detail.

Okay. Well, thank you for that.

I just have two issues to bring up. One is obviously concerning the housing laws that are being passed and how it affects Fullerton. I saw recently an article talking about SB 79, and there's a map now for LA County. And at the very end of the article, it brought up Orange County and saying that it can't be implemented yet, but it will once the streetcar and Santa is working. So the city of LA, I guess, is implementing some laws to delay the full implementation of SB 79. It's always interesting how cities react to state laws. So has staff had a chance, probably you're so busy, to even have some thought about that issue?

We've not, I mean, just this last legislative cycle, I think there was 300 laws that affected zoning, CEQA, housing, land use. And so, honestly, we just get bombarded with these laws. And then Barron and his shop, they spend weeks analyzing each of these new laws. But SP 79 is definitely a concern because it exempts parking for any new development within a quarter mile of a high-quality transit corridor So basically you could build a hundred unit apartment building and not have a single parking place. How many stories high? I think seven stories was the max. I was reading a but seven or eight sounds something like retroactive No, that was for new development. So yeah, it's definitely a concern. But then again, we have the transit center. We have Amtrak, Metrolink, the buses. So maybe around the train station might not be that bad. But in other parts of town, it's probably a bigger concern.

So what areas would be under that consideration? So around the train station?

There's a map. SCAG has a map. You can go online and you can type in an address and it'll show the corridors, the high quality transit corridors.

Would the bus station on Orange Strop and Magnolia, would that be considered a transit? It is, yeah. Okay. Are those the only two, or are there any other?

Well, it includes the corridor.

Oh, the whole corridor.

I forgot what the headway. I think if you have a bus or a train that arrives every 15 minutes, I think that's what it was along a corridor. Then that whole corridor counts. So you're talking about a substantial area. It's a pretty good chunk of the city, yeah.

Oh, my God.

Correct. Yeah. But I mean we talk to developers all the time and nobody really wants to build a project like that because they know that they're going to have trouble renting out or selling units with no parking. So I mean realistically I don't think anybody wants to build something like that.

What about the train station project. Is that Ted.

Which. He's talking about the you're talking about the boutique hotel.

The hotel and the yeah.

That's, I'm not sure what the status is right now. It was in plan check. And then you've heard that the developer passed away, so it's still, we're evaluating it.

So would SB 79 necessarily affect that since it's currently in plan check?

Well, the difference between that project is we own that property, so we negotiated what we would allow there. So in the negotiation, we required that they replace the amount of parking that was being removed. So they have a structure that would, a parking structure that would provide, I forgot what the number is, 250 parking spaces or something to replace the surface parking lot.

So could they make it more dense? If you replace the parking but they could make it more debt, I mean is that that kind of what I'm hearing like it can make it more dense Yeah, if they yeah, okay So when the streetcar is active and

How soon will this be enforced in the city of Fulton? Immediately. Oh, immediately? Yeah.

But I mean, honestly, we're not really getting, nobody's really coming at us with those types of projects.

Well, in addition to the HIAS as well, I'm sorry to interrupt.

Right, yeah, absolutely. Like, since we implemented the HIAS, we've only had maybe two or three inquiries and then one application. But it's not generating a lot of people. We're not getting our door kicked down by developers that want to start building stuff. There's also the financial part of it that it doesn't make sense for some developers.

Thank you for that. Sure. The other issue was brought by a resident because typically I'm asleep by 10 o'clock at the downtown Fullerton. There's queues, I guess, forming in some places, some restaurants. Is that a CUP issue or something that we have to be concerned about?

I'm not familiar with that. I'm not sure what that's about.

If you have an opportunity for the next meeting, if you can take a look at that and see if queues are like blinds forming to go into the nightclubs, or not nightclubs, but I don't know what they're considered, restaurants that become bars.

Oh, okay, I will check.

If you've got any complaints, I guess would be a start. I have not.

Well, I mean, I took my wife to the cellar a few months ago, and there was definitely a queue waiting for people. It was a small place. People wanted to go there, and they were waiting in line. But if you have addresses or locations.

On the stairs, or how is that? Yeah, in the bottom and then at the top of the stairs.

Vice Chair, it seems like you have a question.

Sure. Thanks. Any word on the target development.

No. That one's that's a moving target. There's a lot of players that are involved with that property. You've got the property owner. plus the major tenant, which is Target, because Target basically controls the site. They can dictate what goes there and not goes there. So we had a developer that wanted to put some units there, and it's kind of put on limbo, so no updates.

So they're not even close to plan? No. Okay, thank you.

So just to confirm that for the next meeting, you'll have an opportunity to just have a little bit of an update on the... on the issues of queues in downtown.

Yeah, I mean, if you have locations, that'd be helpful. Okay. But I can ask the code enforcement folks.

That would be great.

I got one more question.

So when I was driving back from work today, I was on Chapman, and not that I'm specifically pointing out the hub, but there's weeds growing out of there next to the street for a surprise. How does typically properties like that, how does the city deal with it?

We like to reach out to the property owner informally and say, hey, give them a call or an email and say, hey, by the way, please remove the weeds. If we don't get a response, then we'll definitely cite them. We try to do it as quickly as possible through the most expeditious means possible.

I was surprised to see it for such a new project.

Yeah, that surprises me too. I'll check into that.

And to answer Vice Chair's question about the forecast for the agenda for the next meeting, if you have a report for that, please.

Yeah. So we have made the draft of the environmental justice element available for public review. And one of my planners is managing it, Senior Planner Yan Gao. So anybody who has comments can reach out to her via email. That's yan.gao, G-A-O, at City of Fortin dot com and they can provide comments about the environmental justice element. So for the next meeting basically staff wants to give a primer on the general plan. It's not really a study session. It's more of an informational item. Talk about general plans and the environmental justice element in general terms, because the environmental justice element will be coming to you in the future. But if you don't really deal with general plans on a regular basis, you probably don't know how they're put together and the pieces of them and so on. So that's what we're proposing to bring at the next meeting. And then that is, we have, We have some other items that are close to being ready, but I don't want to announce them yet because they're not really scheduled. But that's the one I'm going to be bringing to you next meeting. And that's pretty much it.

Excellent. Thank you very much. Well, if there's no further business, this meeting is adjourned.