Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, welcome to the regular meeting of the Frisco Planning and Zoning Commission. We are gathered at 6101 Frisco Square Boulevard and the time is 630 p.m. The Planning and Zoning Commission consists of Frisco residents appointed by the City Council. Tonight, commissioners present are Michael Howard, Sean Merrill, John Kendall, and Steve Cohn. My name is Tiffany Wells. Commissioner's absent is Warren Ruiz. Representing staff, we have John from Developmental Services. We have John Lettler, Jonathan Hubbard, Rolondria Russell, Shawna Quinn, Caitlin Valasuela, and Aaron Farina, and Holly Martin. From Engineering, we have Joe Fitz and Jackie Parker. From Fire, we have Alyssa Barso. Anybody I missed? Oh, Ariel Winfrey, sorry. All right. The next item on the agenda is citizen input. If you wish to address the commission regarding any items that are on tonight's agenda, you may do so at this time. Please complete a speaker card and approach the podium. Prior to your comments, please state your name and address for the record. Our meetings are recorded, so please speak directly into the microphone. Please address all comments to the Commission, not to members of the audience or any applicants present this evening. To ensure there is enough time for all to speak, please limit your comments to a maximum of five minutes unless you must address the Commission through a translator in which you may have a maximum of 10 minutes. Please note the Commission cannot discuss or take specific action during citizen input are items not on the posted agenda except to provide a statement of specific factual information in response to an inquiry or to recite existing policy in response to an inquiry or to indicate that the matter may be placed on a later agenda. Is anyone here to speak on citizen input? Seeing none. You here for citizen input or for a particular case? Okay, okay. Yeah, what case are you here to speak on?

C-6-0-5-F, public hearing.

Okay, so that'll be in public hearing. So when we get to that item, we'll open the floor and then you can speak on that particular item. Okay.

All right.

So seeing none, move on to, we have two minutes that we need to approve. The first one is approval of minutes from the August 11, 2026 regular planning and zoning meeting. Need a motion.

Move to approve the minutes from the August 11th meeting.

Have a motion by Steve.

Second.

Second by Sean. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, motion passes 5-0. The next minutes we have is from our approval of August 11 planning and zoning work session. Need a motion on that?

Move to approve those minutes.

I have a motion by Steve. Second. Second by Sean. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, that motion passes 5-0. The next item on the agenda is the consent agenda. Consent agenda consists of routine and non-controversial items. Any commission member making such requests prior to the motion and vote on the consent items may consider items individually. Any member of the audience wishing to make a comment on consent agenda items may do so with a majority approval of the commission. We have items four through 11. Do we have any that we need to pull?

I don't believe so. If not, I'll make a motion to approve items 4 through 11 on the consent agenda.

I have a motion by John. Second. Second by Sean. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, motion passes 5-0. Tonight we have three public hearing items, and I want to review the process. Each public hearing item is preceded by a staff introduction of the request. The applicant is permitted 10 minutes to make his or her presentation. to the commission following questions of the staff and applicant by the commission. Those wishing to speak are welcome to address the commission. All speakers, including the applicant, need to complete a speaker's card and provided to the administrative assistant. If there are organized groups in attendance, we suggest that you select a representative to present your position. Please avoid repeating what has been stated by previous speakers other than stating that you agree with their comments. The time limit is five minutes per speaker to ensure everyone has a chance to speak. The commission members can vote to limit speaking time if a large volume of people are wishing to speak. Please note that you only have one opportunity to speak. Repeat appearances to the podium are not permitted. After all persons have been given the opportunity to speak, the public hearing portion of the case will be closed and no further testimony will be permitted. unless the case is tabled to a future date and the Commission includes in their motion to continue the public hearing for a future meeting. After closing the public hearing, members of the Commission may have questions for staff or the applicant. Please note the Planning and Zoning Commission only makes a recommendation regarding zoning cases unless the Commission disapproves the case and the applicant does not appeal the disapproval, final action requires a public hearing by the city council. You are encouraged to contact development services staff as to when the case will be considered by city council. So the first item we have is item 12, replant hall park phase D, block A, lots two and four, RP26-0018, owners hall 3101 Gaylord, two llc hpd for food hall llc and hpd for residential llc um and also we need to make a motion to move this off the table i'll make that motion to move it off the table i have a motion by sean second second by john all those in favor aye Motion passed 5-0.

Thank you, Chair, members of the Commission. After the agenda was posted, the applicant requested to withdraw this item. An updated staff report with a formal withdrawal letter has been provided to each of y'all. Staff recommends approval of the applicant's request to withdraw this. Any questions?

I think we're already in public hearing. Yes. Make a motion to close public hearing for item 12.

I have a motion to close public hearing by John.

Second.

Second by Steve. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed, seeing none, that motion passes 5-0. Do we have any questions for staff or a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the withdrawal of this.

Okay, I have a motion by Sean for the withdrawal.

Second.

Second by Steve. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, that motion passes 5-0. Next item on the agenda is item number 13. That is a public hearing reply, Brookside Phase 2, RP26-0021. Owner is BSS Development, LLC.

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the commission. The item that was just read into the record is before you all for approval this evening. And so the purpose of this replot is to modify the product type of lot four and lot 17 in block E. that is highlighted in red, as well as to remove the previously approved 20-foot build line that was on the previous plot. The request for this replot does comply with Plan Development 280, and staff recommends approval as submitted. Happy to answer any questions.

I had a question. Just on the 20-foot build line?

Yes, sir.

Can you just kind of elaborate on what caused that to be put on there and why it's being removed?

So the standards of plan development before the amendment earlier this year required the 20-foot bill line for that product type. And so we have since gone through a revision of the plan development that does not require that 20-foot bill line anymore. Thank you. You're welcome.

Is the applicant here for item 13? We need to open the floor for public. Oh, you have another question?

I'll make a motion to open public hearing for item 13.

Okay, I have a motion by John. Second. Second by Steve. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, we are in public hearing for item number 13. If anyone wish to speak on that item. Seeing none, I need a motion to close public hearing.

Motion to close public hearing on item 13.

I have a motion by John. Second. Second by Sean. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, we are out of public hearing. So any other questions or a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve item number 14 as recommended by staff. 13. 13.

OK, we have a motion by Sean. approval second second by John all those in favor aye any opposed seeing none that motion passes 5-0 next item is item number 14 that is a public hearing zoning for the Thomas Trust Z26-0011 owner the Jackie Thomas Trust and the Thomas Bobby Glenn Trust

Thank you chair and members of the commission. So the request before you all this evening is to rezone a 10.1 acre tract of land from agriculture to single family seven. The request does comply with the city's future land use map. Um the to stay to staff has not received any letters of objections to this request. We have received some inquiries for additional information. The property owner has declined to sign the voluntary development agreement. to establish the building material standards and codes. We have provided a copy of the letter that was provided by the applicant in your packet for review. And so this evening the request does comply with the comprehensive plan and zoning ordinance applicability standards that we typically review these cases for. And so staff is in favor of the request for the single family seven and we recommend for approval. Happy to answer any questions.

Is the applicant here for item number 14? Do you wish to speak?

Yeah, I have this card right here.

Okay, come on.

Do we need open public hearing first?

They get to speak first and then public hearing, yeah. Yes. You can come on.

Yeah, you can. You've got ten minutes.

okay yeah they get 10 minutes so you have 10 minutes just okay sure kevin dims 700 state highway 121 bypass in lewisville texas 75067 i'm with m.i homes of dfw llc we're the proposed builder vice chair commission and staff i want to thank you for the opportunity to be here tonight and speak in front of the city um let me learn how to do this in here okay perfect i just wanted to give you all a little background about our company we have built in frisco but it's been several years our history we've been in business for over 50 years now started in columbus ohio by two cousins we've served over 170 000 families across the country And here locally, we're the six-time builder of the year by the Dallas Builders Association. That's six out of the last seven years. We started here in DFW in 2014. Our last community in Frisco was Hollyhock right before the golf course was finished. So the proposed site plan, it's a challenging site, probably why it's still here. There's quite a bit of topography and some drainage that runs from Main Street over to the church to our north. And the access, the city's plan had always anticipated connectivity through here. So we talked through the different access points several times with the city. And the street that currently serves as a cul-de-sac in our adjacent community to the east will be extended as part of the development. And then the second point of access would connect to the fire lane at the church on the northwest side. So we're proposing 21 home sites under straight SF7 zoning. So each lot will be at least 65 feet wide so we can build a 50 foot wide house. And these will be quite upscale, primarily masonry except in architectural areas above the roof line. And we have connected and reached out to the Springview HOA board adjacent to us. We had a call on Friday with them. And, you know, they did want some additional information just mostly about how the existing retaining walls would be addressed and, you know, kind of understanding how the houses and the lots would work, backing up to them. So here's some quick shots of some of the product. We will also develop a new plan or two for the community. We expect it to be primarily two-story plans. And here's some examples of product that's similar to what we would put in there. We're obviously always kind of changing our plans, updating our plans. So these might not be the specific elevations that you see, you know, a year and a half, two years from now, but it gives you an idea of what the quality of the product looks like. And why am I? We do take pride in the quality of our homes. We actually survey our customers after 30 days and six months to make sure they're still satisfied with us. And we really try to... get really good Google ratings and we care about the customer. A lot of builders these days, it's just units and cranking out, you know, inventory homes and they don't really connect with their customers after they close. We do care. We have high standards for safety and for trades. And we're really, you know, We offer a design experience in this kind of product type with our design center, so it will be upscale and customers will have the opportunity to customize, especially the interior of their home, but also have exterior options. A little bit on the community impact. We talked about the happy homeowners and the good Google ratings. We also raise money for cancer research through our Pelotonia fundraiser. Every year we build a house somewhere here in DFW. And the proceeds go to that cause. And the company as a whole, over the last 18 years, I wrote this down somewhere here, we've raised over $30 million this year, $380 million over the last 18 years. and 260,000 here locally, so we're real proud of that. We also pick up trash in Louisville near our office a couple times a year, even in this heat, and we go serve at the North Texas Food Bank in Plano as well. Here's our team. This is the land team. Obviously, we've got a lot more people that help us build the houses, but this is the land team and our contacts. And happy to answer any questions before I go sit down. Thanks again for the opportunity.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. I need a motion.

Make a motion to open public hearing for item 14.

I have a motion by John second second by Sean all those in favor aye any opposed seeing them we are in public hearing for item number 14 is there anyone who wants to speak on item 14 we've got an additional speaker Colton Smith okay who's Colton did you want to come speak um he's the engineer he's here to just answer any engineering related questions and sir earlier you wanted to speak was this the item you wanted to speak on yeah yeah you oh yeah you can come on and speak just fill out a speaker card after you finish speaking and hand it to holly on it in okay just state your name and address for the record please sir

I'm Mark Crawford, 1322 Shell Beach Drive, Little Elm, 75068. We're property owners to the north of the proposed subdivision, not opposed to the idea of the subdivision. The, I guess, inquiry or thought is there's water. We have a pond on our property that receives water from this property. There's no water that comes from the south of Main Street. It's from the north side of Main Street into our culvert and then across our property into a pond, which then travels on down to Lake Louisville. And so it was just, I TALKED TO THEM ABOUT THE FLOW. I'VE NEVER HAD TO CHECK THE FLOW OF WHAT COMES THROUGH THERE, BUT IT'S CONSISTENT BECAUSE IT KEEPS OUR POND AT BASICALLY A CURRENT LEVEL AND IT HAS BEEN SINCE WE BOUGHT IT IN 2011. SO I WAS JUST WANTING TO SEE IF WE COULD GET A MEASUREMENT ON THE FLOW FOR THE POND, THE WATER THAT COMES THROUGH.

Sir, I'm curious, can you see your pond or property on that map at all?

No, it's... Go to the locator map.

Okay, yeah, you see kind of the U-shaped in the driveway, the double driveway coming in? Okay, the pond's right here. And the water, as you see this, comes through and goes into the pond there. It exits our pond and then goes down to Lake Louisville, as far as I know. And I'm saying that's, from my understanding, it's just spring, you know, of water. Because it's... We've never put water in it that I know of. The Thomases have never put water. They actually had a pond on their property somewhere about there, and a huge rain several years ago flooded it, broke it, and then came across on ours. Anyway, I just wanted to see if we could get a measurement on the water flow, and they had talked about the retention pond here. It's just continuing to keep water going that way. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else here to speak on item 14? Okay. Seeing none, I need a motion to... make a motion to close public hearing on item 14. i have a motion by john second by sean all those in favor aye aye any opposed seeing none public hearing has been closed um i don't know if um city engineer wants to answer some of his concerns about that parcel of land and that flow of water that he mentioned.

As you are coming up, looking at our packet, it does appear that a lot of that's the 100-year floodplain through there, so they can't build on that anyways, if I'm not mistaken.

okay i i'm jackie parker i'm civil engineer with the city engineering department i'm not a drainage engineer however in working with the drainage engineers in the office they cannot increase lot to lot drainage coming from their site to your site so that will be those calculations will be provided in their designs that will be reviewed by our drainage engineers And we'll make sure it should have no adverse impact on any neighboring properties is the intention. The floodplain, they can reclaim floodplain. I don't know what their design is going to look like, but there are options to reclaim floodplain. But they have to take care of any water that comes down from the sky, that any water has to be maintained. We could have separators, we can have bioswells, there's a lot of options. We will review that in the design, but we will, the intention is and the ordinance says that we cannot have lot-to-lot drainage from this development. So hopefully that can be, you know, assuage your concerns first of all, and I'm sure that the engineer of record would be happy to talk to the gentleman about more specifics.

If you don't mind, go ahead, Steve.

I just want to clarify, in case the concern is the opposite of that there's going to be less water flowing into that pond as before, just in case that's also a concern, I know you're not a hydrologist or a water engineer, but when land gets developed like this, is there very often a concern that less water would be running off from that pond?

That's not your typical issue for sure. But I do feel like being good neighbors that there should be some discussion about that between the engineer and the gentleman from the northern property. But other than that, I couldn't really speak to that.

Okay, and just to elaborate on what you'd said, the amount of water flow can't increase. Correct. But if there's currently water flowing between the lots, that level of water can continue to flow. Correct. Up to that.

You cannot increase what's currently in the existing condition, it's what's happening.

Okay, very good. But then the likelihood of decreasing the amount is usually pretty small.

I can't say that for sure, especially if he's talking about a spring or something else going on there, I wouldn't wanna give false information.

But the project engineer will be able to hopefully talk to him.

Right, our drainage engineers will reveal, they'll have discussions with the engineer of record and make sure that that's taken care of. I can reflect your concerns as well to our drainage engineers back at the office.

Okay, great. Just so I'm clear, can I ask the prior speaker, was that your concern that the water would not flow as much? Okay, that's all I needed, thank you.

Question. Well, question. I know you said the applicant, you have an engineer. Can you kind of elaborate in terms of what kind of preparation you have made or considered? I know you're still in the beginning of the phase, but...

Certainly. Colton Smith, 765, do I have to state my address if I'm just answering questions? 765 Custer Road, Plano, Texas, 75075. I'm the engineer on the project and here on behalf of the applicant. So at this point, we've submitted a downstream assessment to the city that's currently in review, which what that is, it's just a report that examines the hydrology and the hydraulics of the site. And we've been through, I think, two or three rounds of comments with the city at this point and have resubmitted anticipating approval on this submittal. And what that shows is exactly what the prior speaker just mentioned, that we're not increasing flows downstream on our neighbor, which is the church property to the north. We did speak to, I'm sorry, the name is escaping me, but we spoke regarding a potential spring on the site is giving runoff to the downstream pond. Prior to this, we weren't aware of any groundwater. We can certainly look into it and see what the options might be. But in general, we've done our diligence on the standard of care, making sure that we're not having an adverse impact on the downstream property. We're addressing that with a detention pond on site. There's significant flow that comes from south of Main Street through some culverts that runs through the site. So really the bigger concern here was increasing runoff to the north, and we're definitely addressing that.

Can you restate that last part again just so everyone heard that? So there is water coming from south of Main Street that is flowing across this site?

Correct. Yeah, there's a significant drainage area south of Main Street. You have some box culverts. If you look at the image on the screen, you can see kind of that treat area is an existing drainage way through the site. So the bulk of the flow coming to the pond on the church property actually comes from south of Main Street. If there is a groundwater spring there, I'd anticipate it is a minimal amount compared to what comes through there in a rain event, which is several hundred cubic feet per second, which is a significant amount of flow. And we're anticipating that, placing a detention pond that'll likely be at the southeast corner of our site, and then taking the water underground throughout the single-family development, and it'll discharge to the culverts to the north like it always has.

Can we pull up the layout of the subdivision again?

Let me see if I can find that. Okay, thank you. So you can see the pond on the southeast there, that kind of blue trapezoidal shape, and there will be an outfall from that pond that goes beneath the paving, and you can see that triangular green space on the north where the drainage will dump out and then go beneath the church's fire lane to the north.

That pond on the southeast corner, is that primarily capturing the offsite water flows that are coming under Main?

Correct, yes. It captures flows from the existing culverts under Main. The reason for it is with the development of the subject site here, there'll be increased runoff, so we're providing detention to make sure we're not increasing flows in a flood event on the church to the north.

Now this plan's laid out, it looks like a large portion of that road is gonna have to be a culvert. It's almost like a bridge.

It won't be a bridge.

I know it won't be a bridge, but for the water flow to go through, it's gonna be a sizable culvert going all the way through there.

Yeah, it'll be a large storm pipe, but not a dissimilar size to what you'd see in many of your arterial roadways around town.

The pond on that southeast corner we were just talking about, is that a retention or detention pond?

Detention.

Detention.

I've got some more comments.

I've got a traffic question, but I can wait until the end.

Anybody have questions? Thank you.

I've got a question for Jackie. So, from what I know, my limited engineering capabilities, so when you take Going from natural drainage to putting it into a pipe is going to come out faster at the other end. And so concern becomes the erosion that will take place, and erosion leads to sedimentation.

So that was, does anyone else want to go? I've got quite a few questions.

And who's going to maintain this so-called detention pond? Who's maintaining that?

That's private. It's not the city. And the storm is also private. The culverts are private. So that's not a city responsibility. Yeah, they are. Not the culverts, but your pipe going underneath there. The pipe going underneath is private. The city does not maintain storm within the site. And don't quote me on that, let me double check that, because since we are running all the way through the property, it may be different, but typically the city does not maintain the storm.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

Does anyone wanna go or I'll go?

Can I ask another drainage question? Just if I can ask the site engineer. All right, so I can visualize the water flowing from south of Maine, underneath Maine, coming to that detention pond and then going through a culvert underneath the street to the north. Overall neighborhood drainage, which way does the site flow and where is the site drainage going to either go into that culvert or where does it go?

The site flows south to north, so it comes from south of Maine. You've got some box culverts there. We'll have, in existing conditions, it's just a drainage channel. In proposed condition, we'll have that detention pond, and it'll enter a pipe that runs beneath the north-south street you see there, and then empties out into that triangular green space on the north. And then it goes beneath existing culverts underneath the church fire lane. So we'll maintain existing conditions drainage-wise. OUTSIDE OUR PROPERTY BOUNDARIES, ALL THAT'S PROPOSED TO BE ALTERED IS WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF OUR PROPERTY. AND I BELIEVE THIS WILL BE A CITY MAINTAINED LINE, GIVEN IT'S SUBDIVIDED LOTS AND PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, IT WILL BE A CITY MAINTAINED COLVERT. THE DETENTION POND WILL LIKELY HAVE AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE HOA AND THE CITY FOR HOA MAINTENANCE OF THE POND.

Okay, and so storm sewer inlets along the streets, will those feed directly into that culvert along that north-south street?

Yes, sir. And to speak to one prior question about erosion and sedimentation, following zoning, we'll obviously have to go through with civil plans with the city, and we'll work with city staff and drainage engineers to ensure we have adequate outfall protection and riprap and sedimentation control.

Thank you.

Over to Pratt. That's all I have for now.

Where's the watershed boundary to the south? How far south is that? It's not shown on this view, but it's... Because I'm looking at my phone map and trying to get an idea because I really can't tell.

I'd have to look back at the drainage report itself, but I know it's tens of acres, not 100 acres, but not insignificant either.

Okay.

Okay.

All right, I've got a few comments and possibly questions for staff. I've got some concerns, not that we can't overcome them, but I've got quite a few concerns about this site. I'm fairly familiar. I've seen about five, six different renderings for this site over the last 10 years that have been brought up. It's a difficult site. I do believe it should be single family, but that... That creek going through the middle, it's an obstacle to work through. All the other plans I saw made a very drastic effort to work around it because it is so difficult and the cost that's involved into it. Reasons why I have concern is that we're going for straight zoning. So my understanding, Rolandra, the concept we're seeing is not they have to follow.

that was in their presentation. A staff has not reviewed or approved that concept.

So because we're just proving straight zoning, not this concept plan. Correct. So it could change if we approve it tonight. The hard corner, you know, that's zoned commercial, is that right?

No, it's all zoned agriculture.

Or agriculture. It's a hard corner which would lend itself to commercial. and how this concept lays out, I don't know where you'd hit two points of access for that potential commercial. When you look on the 423 side, the road would be too close to have an exit and it would have to possibly cut into this property. I have a huge concern of how are we making that hard corner undevelopable is a question of mine. Straight zoning, I've got a concern about no signing of a development agreement. It was exciting to MI, I've heard great things about MI Homes, and when they say all these great things, I think it should probably be pretty simple to accept a development agreement and signing that. I think we need to accomplish that first. One of those is, and I don't wanna be against staff, but this time I have to is, I'm usually on their side defending the city going, hey, don't worry about it. They're like, it will lower my property value. And the thing I preach is going, guess what? We have design standards in Frisco that make sure that they're required to build a great product. and now I can't tell the neighbors this. Whatever ends up getting built there, I can't say, don't worry, they signed a development agreement, they're gonna live to Frisco standards. With not signing a development agreement, it could change. Not saying I'm not accusing MI of that, but this is straight zoning, it could be sold. I just, I think this needs more time. I just, that's my thought is let's go back to the drawing board and we're close, but let's talk about development agreement. Let's figure out how this hard corner is gonna work in there. Let's get a concept plan that we can actually agree upon rather than just hypothetical, because I think this Creek is a much bigger thing that we're dealing with. That's kind of where I'm at. I would recommend a tabling on this for, I don't know if you need a month or three months, but the staff need to sit down and see if we can get to that right decision.

I have additional questions for Joel. If you could put the other map back up, it shows the street layout. So coming in from the east, is it typical for another subdivision to access a cul-de-sac like that at the end of another?

yes um when a neighborhood is originally originally designed it has empty land next to it we often have streets that stub out and this street was stubbed out to the property to the west and the original developer decided rather than have a temporary turnaround they decided to put in a permanent cul-de-sac but it's still stubbed it still was always intended to continue to the west So we do always want neighborhoods to connect to each other as well as have the requirement for a street connection from retail on a hard corner to the neighborhood adjacent. So it's always been planned to be a connection there, yes.

So that cul-de-sac will stay as is, it's just striped? not striped just simply think of it as like one of the knuckles that you see in one of the other intersections yeah and then coming off of 423 is that and are they allowed to connect to that is that a public road is that an easement

It's a fire lane with an access and utility easement, fire lane access and utility easement. So the access easement gives the public the ability to travel through it. We do have a couple other neighborhoods in the city that connect in this way. There's one on Independence. There's one nearby here on the south corner of 423 and Main. So it does happen, yes.

Okay, and I'm not concerned with the amount of traffic. With 21 homes, it's not going to be that much. Next question. John brought up that point with that hard corner. If it does eventually get rezoned commercial, which would make sense, would they be able to access it from the cul-de-sac? I already probably know the answer to that question, but.

Well, the answer is yes, because even though straight zoning where we don't approve a specific layout, we did talk to them about what was possible. And we did talk about there being an access easement through an FAU actually fire lane access and utility easement from the cul-de-sac to that property to give it second point of access. So does the property owner currently own that hard corner?

They don't? No. Okay.

Let me mention this. That property, staff was not gonna be supportive of any commercial zoning on that property. It does not show up, and okay, the problem with this layout, Sean O'Colesack, they're gonna have to provide street access to those properties. We've done that in other developments, so the streets laid out. So at some point in the future, they'll come in for zoning. It's set up where they get rezoned to single family to make the connection.

Yeah, it would be ideal if, I don't know what happened, but if this hard corner should be part of this neighborhood. And I realize it's out of your control.

So yes, if all of this is right of way, then it fronts that property and gives it the ability to connect. That's another possibility, yes.

I do want to say I'm excited that this corner is getting redeveloped because it's kind of a little unsightly right now, a little bit. But I got to kind of agree with John. I think tabling this and looking at this a little bit more closely, I think I'd feel better about it.

I think all the issues that we've discussed are all relevant, but there's really only one question before us tonight, and that's, is this land suitable for single-family zoning? You know, the issues brought up about engineering and site plan can be addressed later by the consultant and city staff. I'm supportive of this as single-family, so I'm ready to move forward with an approval.

So, more question for you. Support of single-family, are you supportive of it being, it's straight zoning, so the building standards, we don't have a signed development agreement, You know, I've worked in a lot of cities. You can show a picture, and again, this has nothing to do with them. It could be anyone else. It could be 100% siding. It could...

I think that's a good question for Alondra. What building standards would they be held to in absence of a development agreement?

They would be held to what's allowed by state law in the zoning ordinance.

I'm sorry, say that again?

State law in the zoning ordinance.

Which is much... Go ahead, John.

What the state law provides for them, that was done back in 2019, allow materials that are listed in the last three building code cycles, so they're done every three years, so whatever is listed.

Joe. Ollie's put out there, I'd like to make a motion to table this. I love that it's single family. I think we're close. I'm excited for you all to come.

Can I ask a couple questions before you do that? Just so we can move this along a little bit further. Joel, can I ask a question on the northern entrance coming through the church property?

Yes.

You said that's a fire lane. Do you know the width of that fire lane? 24 feet. Okay, that's what I thought. And does that have to be widened at all to be a neighborhood entrance?

No.

Okay. Okay, and the second question on traffic, I know you can't predict exactly what people do, but it seems plausible that whenever there's people turning right from one busy street to another busy street, that it's always very, very tempting to find another way to turn right if you can find a neighborhood streets to cut through to get to another street there. Can you think of any way to minimize or reduce the temptation to cut through and cut off the corner to go north on 423?

So this actually this layout does that just exactly what you're talking about because there's a meeting opening here So there could be a street connection here, but by not putting one there you're eliminating the chance that people would cut through For people to come all the way and do this that's very unlikely but also we're unable to prevent that from a connection so far away from the street from the intersection, but really by eliminating the street connection that could be there, it definitely takes away the risk of what you're talking about.

What I what I heard you say was that if you if you stretch the cut through distance further to the east on Elk Ridge, it looks like fewer people are likely to cut through because it's a little bit longer neighborhood drive, right?

Looking for those quick cut throughs. Also, if you count it, there's six right turns, they'd have to make left or right turns to make that movement. It's just too many. I would not consider that a shortcut.

I'd be surprised, but I agree with what Joel's saying, that if there was an entrance closer to 423, it'd be even more tempting. So I do agree that this makes it less tempting. I appreciate that. Back to the cul-de-sac that exists right now. I'm just, the one that exists in the neighborhood to the east that's gonna now be extended through. Do we know, are there signs on that cul-de-sac that say this is a possible future through street?

Yes.

Okay, so at least we know those neighbors are aware.

And it was planted that way as well. The plant shows that it connects and continues.

Good job, thank you. And then my other concern is just, obviously cul-de-sacs become playgrounds in a lot of neighborhoods. I'm just trying to envision what this looks like when that becomes a through street, going straight through a cul-de-sac that may have been for years a play area.

The basketball hoop.

The basketball hoop, but just the habits.

So from the city's perspective, no road is a playground. No road pavement is ever a play area, so it is not officially a play area and cannot be considered as such. Okay. We do have a couple... cul-de-sacs like this. You might call them mid-block cul-de-sacs because sometimes a developer will want to put homes in in a certain way that gives them, you know, this bulb out in the road gives them additional frontage. I can't think of the name of the streets, but near Bloodswell Elementary, there's a couple neighborhood streets that have a mid block cul de sac because of the way the homes were built. So it's not completely unusual. It's just kind of like, again, in most neighborhoods, when you you can kind of see it here. If you have a right angle, there's a there's a we call it a knuckle. Yep. And it's kind of like there's a knuckle on each side of this is what it is. But the road just goes through the middle of it. So we don't have any concerns with it, because we do have roads like this and other places.

Okay, and I assume we haven't experienced higher incidents of pedestrian accidents.

No, no, because they really become parking areas and so forth for the homes that are nearby. Okay. But they are not officially play areas and they cannot be, street pavement cannot be considered play areas.

Understood. I understand they're not officially play areas, but if you grew up in the 70s, you knew that pavement meant a place to play. I'm worried about the realities of people in the habit of you've got this kind of area, you've got a nice paved area to do stuff on, whatever you're doing, whether you're walking, because they're allowed to walk on the cul-de-sac, the street or whatever, and cars are going through. There's no signage. There's no yield sign. There's nothing to slow them down through there. It's just a regular street. Okay. Okay. All right, my last question's for the applicant.

I have one too, for the applicant. For the applicant, okay.

One thing I wanna mention.

Yeah.

The reason this is a cul-de-sac down here, is the reason fire trucks need a way to turn around. That's why you have a cul-de-sac here. And if it was just one or two lots before, then, I mean, that cul-de-sac could have been done on the adjacent lot and eliminated when the street was extended. So it's only a cul-de-sac because that's what needed to be at the end of the street to allow turnarounds. That's why it was designed with a cul-de-sac bulb.

And I agree with that, John. That's why I was actually asking the questions. A lot of times you see these as a temporary turnaround instead of a permanent cul-de-sac. And this would be a phase one, and the developer knows they're going to do phase two. And so it's a temporary turnaround that typically then gets torn out and removed, and so this issue doesn't come up. That's why I was asking about it. I know this happens before, it just seems a little bit more rare. So, okay. Do you wanna ask your question, Tiffany, of the applicant first, or?

Yeah, so it's just a quick question. I know staff said that y'all didn't sign the development agreement. Can you share light on what was the reasoning for not doing it?

Sure. We did provide reasoning, which I believe is in your packet. Primarily, you know, in our experience with development agreements, both parties actually get something from it. In this particular development agreement, there was literally nothing that was being secured on our end. It was 100% we're waiving all of our rights under Texas law, under case law, and we were told it was voluntary and we didn't really honestly have the time to negotiate anything, but I'm not even sure there's anything the city's really willing to give in exchange for the applicant to sign the agreement. So there's even a provision in there that says both parties have contributed to the agreement and have contributed equally, and it's just, it's not the case. So, I mean, that's the primary objection. Like we're not even, we're not even getting our alley waiver secured in the development agreement. That wasn't something that can be given until the plat is actually provided. So just there was like literally no consideration for the agreement for the applicant.

And Tiffany, I might have misspoke. I think a better, thank you. Making a PD a plan development, I think that would more just tie down things.

Okay, yeah, I just wanted to make sure we had clarification. I normally write down what y'all saying just to get clarification for everyone.

So go ahead, Steve. If I can ask that question ahead. I partially agree with what Sean, Commissioner Merrill said about, you know, there's some things on that corner we'd like to see cleaned up. It's always the case, but then the flip side of that is behind this, maybe some of the old buildings we'd like to see cleaned up is kind of an attractive piece of land. And I don't know if you guys considered any layouts that tried to take advantage of the draw, the creek or whatever's flowing, whatever you want to call what's flowing through there. and trying to amenitize the neighborhood using that instead of just hiding the water underground. Did you all consider any other layouts?

Sure. I think we went through about 30 iterations of layouts, and quite frankly, it's just a very challenging site. There's quite a bit of topography, which you can't really appreciate just looking at it in two dimensions. going both directions. There's also a retaining wall up against the existing neighborhood. We're going to have to import quite a bit of dirt to lift the site a little bit to make it sewer. So there's just a lot of development challenges. I agree. I would have loved to been able to amenitize it. And I know Colton, the engineer said that's a dry detention pond, but I guess we could look at maybe making it wet with a fountain. But I think that's more of an engineering question than a, you know, a design type question for someone like me to answer. I'm not an engineer. But yes, we did look at it. I mean, you can see it's a very tight site. We did originally go through the PD route, but the feedback we got was You know, it was going to require quite a bit of an amenity level in exchange for getting the smaller lots. And we don't really have the number of home sites to allocate that sort of burden on for long-term maintenance and just HOA dues. They're going to be high as it is being a pocket 21 lot deal. Although we did talk to the neighboring community and they're open to the idea of us joining their HOA. Obviously, there'd be a lot to flush out with that. You know, just it's not as easy as just saying, yeah, we want to annex. We got to kind of work through a lot of things before we get there. But at least there's willingness and we'll have those kinds of discussions with them.

Okay, I appreciate that feedback. So if I can wrap this up, then I just, I'm always cautious and concerned when we do straight zoning. I think the fact that we don't know what's gonna look like, I appreciate the presentation from MI Homes. They build a good product. I like what I saw. And I think any decision we make up here, this is to myself and fellow commissioners is, I always have to block out the pictures. We can't vote based on any pictures we saw of an MI home or any pictures we saw of those buildings building standards as far as the exterior of those houses. So this decision that we have to make is really about, do we want this piece of land to have SF zoning and not knowing for certain what we would tell the neighbors? We can't promise anything as to what would be there and what it would look like. So I would have to agree with the other commissioners who are concerned. I do think single family makes sense here. That's on the future land use plan. But I'm concerned about giving straight zoning without whatever else we can come up with, whether we pursue the PD route or look for some other layouts or just some more discussions to make some progress into knowing what the city of Frisco would be getting on that corner. I'm fine leaving that green for now until we can kind of tell the residents what's going to come there and what's going to look like for sure. I'd be in favor of tabling if you want to make that motion.

Hold on before you make the motion. Let me ask this, John, and you can put it in your whole thing. So right now we have some concerns about, I guess, drainage, the agreement, the traffic, all that. So my first question would be, if we go with staff recommendation, what would be the remainder of the process in terms of if they get approved for a straight zoning? The other thing is, if we decide to table the item, how long should we table that item, and should we draft up the motion with specific concerns that staff and the applicant should work on? And then you can go ahead and say whatever else you were saying.

So, to answer her question. Commission recommends approval before the City Council for their September 15th meeting or my push it October just because the 15th is boards and Commission night and budget so those tend to be a long meetings. Or if it's tabled then tabling to. At least to the first meeting in October. Does that give you enough time? What? Does that give you enough time? That's minimal. I'd probably come back and tabling again to work things out. So here are some things to consider. What I've heard you talked about is, one, it's about the drainage. As they mentioned of having a retention pond, I have a concern about that from a maintenance standpoint. You don't have that many lots, and when these type of features are passed on to homeowners, the city usually gets contacted to help out. These become maintenance problems. Do they put enough clay lining in there, Some developers will just put a few inches when typically you probably need to put 18 inches of clay lining to do it. And then it comes to dredging. At some point, it needs to be dredged. And when you have fewer property owners, that becomes an expense. So just something to consider about. This layout has not been reviewed by staff. And so, yeah, we're not going to grant any allied waivers because we don't know how this site is going to lay out. We've got to look at the drainage and the number of factors. And this, it's not unusual to say, hey, we'll hold off and bring this other property into the fold. If you don't do that, well, come up with a design that's gonna lay it out where that can fly in. We got several examples where we have done that in the past of stubbing streets or have the adjacent infrastructure laid out so when that property develops, it just easily ties in. But I got a question, and other people that have looked at the site, and again, I always generally have a concern about any time you take going from a closed system to an open system is increasing the runoff, sedimentation, and so forth. Would the commission be willing to consider an alternative lot size on this property to preserve the area as opposed to You know, all SSI, just a thought.

I mean, I'll speak for me. I'm okay with a smaller lot. This is a unique property. No, I'm not anti-smaller lot. I think this is a single family. I want this to get developed. So I don't have huge reservations for smaller lots.

I think if the, on a corner like this, a busy corner, two thoroughfares, where you often see sometimes smaller lots. If the trade off was a prettier neighborhood or better looking design and something that was locked down, I would not be opposed to slightly, maybe slightly smaller, not micro houses. Not 20s. Not 20s.

But I think we kind of diddling into, we diddling into like a PD instead of straight zoning. So I think we have to, you know, we have to be mindful of, you know, saying we want smaller lots or bigger lots.

Maybe I'll include that. Because I want to give you all directions. I think we're way excited for this. I mean, this is awesome. I think we'd love this corner to get developed. I appreciate it. I wish we could... but we'll make sure you've got time to meet with staff and all that. So giving you direction, like, yes, this is single family, Yes, work with staff. We wanna make sure we give you ample time to do that. We would love to really know the exact plan that's coming forward. So if that is more of a PD, I think that's probably a win-win for both parties. So that you've got direction, make sure you have time. So I'd like to give a recommendation for item 14 to table this to the November 10th meeting and allow staff to meet with the applicant and continue the public hearing.

I will second the recommendation.

Okay, I have a motion to table this item to the November 10th meeting by John and second by Sean. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, that motion passes 5-0. Next item is item number 15, adoption of the 2027 development review schedule. Owner, city of Frisco.

Thank you. Each year staff brings forward the upcoming year's development review schedule for the commission's review and consideration. There are specifically four review schedules that fall under the commission's authority. Unfortunately, the calendars that were in the packet took into consideration a wrong date for Memorial Day. That has been corrected. So those updated calendars were provided to you prior to this evening's meeting. Do you have a recommendation for approval? I'm happy to answer any questions.

Okay, any questions for Stan?

Doesn't phone my birthday, I'm good.

Okay. Need a motion.

Steve, do you have any objections? Let me check my calendar, see if I'm...

I'll make a motion to approve. Second.

have a motion by Sean second by John all those in favor aye any opposed seeing none item fifteen is approved five zero um item number sixteen results from the city council meeting on August eighteenth twenty twenty six two items to report on request to repeal ordinance uh

Okay, which one? So this is zoning case 2513, Aspires Engineering worked on. That was approved five to zero. That was at 423 and University Drive. That involved the, health club that's on the southwest corner of 423 and university the second item regarding there on the southwest corner of majestic and main street council tabled that until november 3rd no reason can you say that one again john That was tabled for no reason, that was tabled, no reason given, it was tabled to the third. Which issue was that one? For further consideration. Trader Joe's. Yeah.

The trade.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, item number 17, schedule future discussion items, anything?

Nope.

Okay. Last item, Warren's not here, so someone has to fill in the gap. I'll make a motion to adjourn. I have a motion by Shawn. Second, I'll second. Tiffany second. I can second. Okay, all those in favor? Aye. Any opposed, seeing none, motion passes 5-0 and we are adjourned at 7.31 p.m.