Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

It's after 7:00 and everybody's here. Do we have some recording? I think we're good to go, right? Thank you. Good to go. Yes, sir. At this point, I call this meeting to order. If you take the role, if you state your name to my left, my right for the recording. Mark Ciso, Michelle Samaran, Randy Breman, Fred Noash, Linda Novak, John Simon. Seeing as we have a quorum, we'll call this meeting to order. Uh, first order of business, the adoption of the agenda. I move we adopt the agenda as second. Move and second. All in favor? I

motion passes. under new business. Uh the building official will introduce the case, but for those who have not been here before, this is a zoning board of appeals slash uh signed board of appeals. And what we do is we have a presentation of the case by the building official and then a presentation by the applicant who was denied. And then we'll have uh public comments if there are any. And at that point, we'll close public comments and have discussion among the board. And the discussion, we'll present finding of facts on which we'll base our decision. And then we'll have a motion. And the motion must be in the positive in order to pass. And that being said, that's how we'll run the meeting. At this point, I'd like to turn over to Bill Denon to introduce our case. The first or only case tonight is the signed vote of appeals case number 26- 001 for the property at 32652 Franklin Road. The zoning district here is a C1 and the request is for a ground sign under the village of Franklin ordinances section 1474.18 par C par 4 locations set back from the rightway ground signs may be in the front yard provided that no portion of the sign be closer than 5t to the rightway. The proposed sign is to be located two feet from the front property line, which is the front property line is also the property side of the sidewalk. So, if you're familiar with that area, the property line runs down the property side of the sidewalk, which leaves a

spot of about 3 feet where there's dirt and then the parking lot starts. Um the are you talking in the back of the building or in the side of the building? No, right here. This is the road. This sidewalk. Okay.

So, the applicant is proposing to install this sign uh directly on the face side of the split rail fence that is there, which is in that small area of dirt. um which actually happens to be two feet. So the request is for three feet from the five foot to allow the sign to be 2 feet back from the sidewalk or the front property line. I can answer any questions you may have. I there was um I do have a um property with dimensions on it here. and pass that down. And you can see uh where the property line is is actually running down the

And we're talking about this dirt spot there. The dirt spot would be looking at this. We're looking at the property this way. There's two dirt spots. There's one for the parking on the left as you drive in. There is another dirt area to the right which separates the parking on the right side of the property. Let's see that. So, we're talking about in that area start

this is a new I don't know what it is. What's that new bill? What building is this? This was the old market. you know, market which is now the fitnessdriven building and the building behind which was farmhouse coffee but it is now going to be um well it was called great I don't know exactly call it I'll let her explain it to you but it's that sidewalk that goes around the ground for the entire property I think that's the over

but is it advertising for the restaurant or Well, according to the name on it, well, I'll let the the owner describe that for you, but the the sends commons would lead me to believe it's indicating everything on the property. So, well, she so both buildings.

Um, my name is Lisa McDonald. I own the whole property um that we're speaking of. So, it's where Market Basket used to be. And that, as you can see, is the the whole property is where Market Basket was, which I've now been um occupying that full space for the last six years. And then the old farmhouse that's behind. So that's one full property. I um purchased the whole property in 2024. Um it's been a a long little journey, but um I will be opening a c a coffee shop um and a wine bar in the um farmhouse. So, I want to re we've rebranded and we've launched our new brand as Sun's Commons because I want the whole property to be one specific space and not just Great Dog Cafe and Fitness Driven. That's why I took time and really trying to formulate one. I wanted the area to be called because I wanted it to be more than just two single entities. I want it to be a whole space where we can do not only, you know, wellness and coffee and wine, but bring in the community. And like I would love to really bring back the farmers market and make this an actual, you know, a space. And that's why I want to call it commons um versus just having two entities. And what we really struggled with is how do you signage for this? I don't want an A-frame sign. I don't like them. I don't think that they're attractive. I know that they don't, you know, the village hasn't really liked A-frame signs also. So, I have this building that's set back a ways. You know, it's I don't know how many feet that set back off the road, but you you don't get any visibility with the the farmhouse. And so, um all I want is some type of ground sign that will then label the whole space. Um Sens Commons and Sens means senses in French. Um, but it's just bringing in the whole sensory experience because I'm offering personal training, fitness, massage,

coffee, wine, food. Um, all and then we also want to do more um we're going to be doing art installations both in the studio, in the cafe, you know, bringing in people to be able to see things other than just what's outside. So trying to come up with a spot for a sign has been challenging because you know we're you're limited you know on my building on on the main front building the market basket building are we have that signage and that's fine but how do I advertise and bring signage to that back building you know which is different um you know do I put a sign on if I add another sign to the brick building that's in the front it draws attention to that it doesn't bring people into that back space. So, um we really thought that having that bringing a sign to the front um more on that right side and that dirt area would at least bring um your eye to that corner which would then hopefully lead you to look at that that back corner um and the the farmhouse that's in the back area. So, um I am open to your suggestions and your ideas if um you know this doesn't work. Go ahead.

Yeah. If I was driving by and I saw the sign that said the name that you have, I would have no idea what you do there. I would I mean, you want to sign because you want to tell people what what you're doing. That's not really what we're not That's not our jurisdiction. Um, we can put I'm sorry. I'm out of not answering. I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Doing your marketing consulting, right? So, this sign is not going to be back lit or anything. It's strictly It wouldn't be back lit. Yeah. Can you describe the sign a little because I think it says it's like aluminum posts and then acrylic lettering.

It would be a flat aluminum. Do you not have Yeah, I had um there was there's this. Oh, so that's okay. That's a big Okay. So, um it would just be a flat aluminum or stainless steel with that protrudes. So, it's an acrylic.

They use acrylic for the lettering and it just sticks out. It just So, um the lighting is always an issue because how do you light that doesn't bother neighbors or whatever because we are in also we have people who live across the street. So, but the only thing that would seem of any concern because of what's happening right now is when they come and they plow, are they going to cover your sign up?

Right. And exactly. I mean, um, which they've been really good. I mean, I have good plow people, but the village is the one who, you know, plows the front. I think it's far enough away because it would be, um, would be 3 ft from the sidewalk. And right now, this the the fence is there and nobody plows into the fence, which I didn't put the fence there also, by the way. So the fence was put there by the village. So I don't know how that was. Are the the trees there existing, right? No, they're not existing. Oh, they're not. Okay. So are you guys So you're adding the tree and then the signage in front of the trees. Both trees on either side and there's still going to be three feet between the sign and the sidewalk. Yeah. And how many feet are between the fence and the sidewalk? Do we know that? It's in the whole 5 foot area. It can't be a lot.

It's 5T. [laughter] That dirt path is 5T. Yeah. from the sidewalk which is the front property line to the edge of the first parking space is 5T. Okay. So this entire distance here yes is 5T. Okay. So it would be in front of the fence it would be right. Yep. And how tall will this fence be? I mean the sun 30 in 30 in off the ground. No 20 in off the ground. Off the ground. Four inches off the ground. 24 in sign. and his uh 5 ft long. It says S Commons common. And so you said there is lighting or there's not lighting.

There's not lighting proposed at this time. No. And just for curious, what is sense commons mean? Sense means senses and then commons is an area like a common area. Sounds like a great concept. Thank you. Yeah, I love it. Are you going to have signage on the farmhouse also? No, we're just on the front window. We're just doing very minimal signage at the gym. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So people won't know that that's a coffee shop or whatever.

We're [laughter] No, they will. I mean, they will and they won't if they look at, you know, it up. It's It's one of those things. I want minimal. You know, advertising is done a little bit differently now anyways. It's more social media. It's drawing things in. Names don't mean a lot of things. I mean, people don't go by and see a coffee shop. They'll Google. They'll see what's available. They'll be like, "Oh, that's a coffee shop." And then they'll drive in. I don't think you're getting people coming because they drive by and they see a cafe. They're not pulling in. You know, they've looked ahead of time. They've, you know, they've looked for stuff from that regards. I mean, how often do you drive by something and be like, "I'm going there." You've already looked online for something. You know that we did that.

Well, I think in this neighborhood that's even more pertinent. Like I don't think people drive through downtown Franklin like you know they're not looking for anything. No. Right. Right. They drive through downtown Franklin Telegraphs blocked off. Exactly. [laughter] That's the only reason they're coming.

Yeah. So it's it's one of those things I want it to be more of a neighborhood gathering spot. So you're going to know it's there. You're going to come um you've looked for us online. That's how you're coming to us. It's you know it's about being word of mouth. And most people drive by the studio and they think it's an art gallery. So I mean I had it as you know the studio for 15 years and you know we have people walking in and they'll be like oh when is this and you know then I tell them and they might want to tour and they might come back. Um but that's always how I've been with my businesses and it's always been about word of mouth and not just in your face about what we're offering and what we're doing. So, um, I like to be more low-key and draw in people that way versus being, you know, McDonald's. I don't need the arches. So I think having more of that holistic approach and um

you you don't want to call it backstreet coffee and wine, huh? Right, [laughter] Bill? If you know, Bill, if she finds out that this does not draw anybody, could she change the verbiage on this without coming back to us? Correct. but she would have to go to the historic district commission and she's already been there and they have uh blessed the sign and actually if you'll see in the paragraph down second paragraph down they're recommending your good graces on this.

I have a question. Uh, Randy, are you saying that if we okay this we'd have to okay everybody else could put a sign up in a similar No, no, that's not a variance only goes with the property. It doesn't set a precedent. If there are reasons for a sign at that location on this unique property, that means it's unique to that property. That's determined finding a fact. The fact that a sign is would be located that close to the street or that close to the property line is unique to the property itself and it would only be c considered a present if there was an identical piece of property in the village to do the same thing.

I see. Which there isn't. And so if I'm understanding, in order if if she were to go by the um by the the code as it is, her sign would essentially like it wouldn't even work in that space at all because it'd be in the first parking space. Yeah. Okay. So So yeah. Yeah. So then you lose a parking space, which parking in the village of Franklin is at a premium anyway. So when you've already got the fence there, so yeah,

and that's why we were thinking like a low ground sign. We already have the fence. It wasn't going to be that big of because if you go in and we do more of a pole sign like they have down the street at Zeban Mayor, then that's that's a lot more um visually you can see it better, but it's large. Yeah. Yeah. paint the side of the building like it used to. I actually would love that, but I thought that was [clears throat] and I don't think there's no reason why she trying to get the HCC her [laughter] I know a little that's how it used to be. Cool.

Bill, if if this property would change hands, would that sign go with the property? Yes, variances go with the property. Okay. But would they have to come back to us with a new sign? No, they can always have a sign there where they would have to go after this point if you grant this is they would have to go back to the historic district commission for to change the sign. The only time they would be required to come back to you is if they wanted to change the location, which would impact um the violation of the ordinance to a greater degree than what would be granted here this evening. If they made the sign larger, would that be needed?

Um we could write we could we can stipulate that with the finding. Yeah, you could stipulate that. that meets the ordinance for size. Now, and I would caution that you would limit something to something less than what the ordinance allows, but you can do that. What does the ordinance allow? Big smaller than what? Because it's me, you know, [clears throat] I'm going to ask that. Yeah, I know. Thank you. I think this is ours is almost half the size. You could get a lot more. Yeah, you can get quite a bit more. I'll answer that in a few minutes. Want me to look it up? Okay.

Well, the other the other comment is um in some of the restrictions you could state that it's not illuminated because this science is not asking for it to be illuminated and there could be a a restriction orary covenant of of a of a granting of the easement. What does he say? Well, I mean, what if it was like landscape lighting? It's a question of illumination or not illumination of a sign. Yes, Bill. Um, back lit signs aren't permitted by the ordinance anyway. So, if would if you're talking about illumination, it would have to be something that shines on the face. So,

that's if you want to limit that, then then you could condition the sign with that restriction. Would you have to get an approval to run electrical there because it's so close to the sidewalk? Like, would that be another approval? I forgot. And for that [clears throat] matter, you could do a uh solar, right? Just, you know, solar in the winter time in Michigan is really [laughter] sun doesn't shine. And when it does, it's so cold the batteries are frozen. If we grant the ordinance, does the sign snow?

Sorry. Does the sign can the sign be the size of the sign ordinance the ordinance says now or can it be limited because in the space that it's at you wouldn't want it to be a huge sign. What I'm saying is can we limit the size of the sign? You could condition it specifically to the application that was submitted. Yeah. Okay. Therefore, if they wanted to increase the sign, even though the ordinance would permit it because it has a variance on it, it would need to come back to increase its size. Okay. If you condition the approval, good back to the application submitted.

It doesn't mean it can't be changed in the future. It just means it would have to be reapplied for change. Correct. Um the size of sign ground sign shall not exceed 48 square ft. She's way under that. Yeah. Uh no single surface should be greater than 24. So actually you get 24 per face. Um if you turned it the other way. So but then you'd be in the parking spot. You'd be out in the street, right? you'd be in this free [laughter] cuz that's why we couldn't figure out how to do a sign that would face both ways because to meet the there's not enough room. Yeah. So,

no, not unless you have a parking place to do it, right? Or if you want the property line between you and Pearl Mutters, right? But then it's not and then it's in that tree. We'd have to cut down the trees and then the ball of wax. Okay. Wow. Cutting trees would be a whole different ball of wax. [clears throat] Yeah. Not us. Go talk to the right somebody else. So it'll just be straight with the sidewalk like paralle to the sidewalk. Any other questions from the board?

Thank you. We have no public comments but no letters. I was going to ask confirm there's no letters, no public comment, nobody present. Nobody called car pigeon or email bottle and know the bottle. It's okay. You know, it's okay with your next door neighbor. I mean, in other words, they're very close to the Everybody within the thousand ft got notification that this meeting was happening tonight. I would assume that if they had a concern, they would most likely hear it.

Mhm. At this point like we go to finding the facts. Is there any discussion first though? Okay. Yes. Um, if if if you put a sign out there, does the business have to open within a certain amount of time from when the sign is? No. [clears throat] In other words, can a sign be out there and then you for 6 months you're not in you're not in business? Is that is that part is there any sort of stipulation? No. No.

Okay. And I would want to put the sign on until I open. Okay. Well, the sign the sign specifically does not reference coffee shop at understand what I'm saying. It's not a it doesn't specifically reference that. Okay. And no, there's no stipulation on that. But if you open tomorrow, it'll be ice coffee. Um, were you doing facts?

Yes. Fact one, um, the area to the right of the driveway is, uh, 5 ft in depth, which is insufficient to for the sign of an ordinance. Correct. Uh, fact two, that the hardship is that the owner does not want to lose parking when parking is at a premium. Fact three, the HDC Historic District Commission has approved in this and recommends us to do the same.

Fact four, that there has not been any comments, remarks, or letters from any of the neighboring properties. Um, would be a fact that is it is not going to be lit at this time. Do you need details about the size as part of the fact finding? Yes. Okay. With fact six 60 in by 60 in by 24 and four inches off the ground.

60 inches. Yeah. Well, Mr. Chair, I think that would versus being a fact. That's part of the application. You might want to put that in as part of your motion to approve. Okay. Just a suggestion on that. [clears throat] Yeah, I think that's cleaner way to do it.

There's currently no sign there. The property in and of itself as you had mentioned earlier so I don't add too much to your program here but you had mentioned this property is unique in of itself as um one building on the property is barely at the setback that the property is right used all almost all of it up to the front property line. Yeah. So that that in and of itself would pose itself as unique.

So this is one business, not two. It's two separate entities. So it's the personal training studio and massage. Um so wellness facility is in the front where the marketing basket used to be. Okay. No, I mean I I know where it is. I'm just wondering if it's considered when you report to the state or the government. Two entities. So and actually right because I have the entity that owns the property which management and then I have the two separate entities that are the businesses. So

technically it's a it would end up being a multi-tenant building sign. In other words, it's one sign advertising multi- tenants. And with respect to the ordinance under um section C3, multi-tenant buildings, only one ground sign shall be permitted. So they she can only have one ground sign advertising everything that's happening on the property, which is what she's requesting. So that meets the ordinance.

Um whether or not used by one or more individual tenants. So it may have numerous entities on the property, but this would actually be considered a ground sign for the the property property. So had you had a bigger sign on your on your exercise studio, you couldn't have this sign. Is that what you're saying? The exercise studio is not a ground sign. It's a window sign. Actually, one is a building sign. Building sign. Yes. Okay. Okay. Um

it's actually called the projection sign to get right into the technical term for it. But either way, this is the only ground sign for that property. Okay. So, Randy, I don't know if this is actually a finding of fact, but that this, you know, you mentioned that the historic commission has approved it, but this is also very much in keeping with what planning and what the master plan has been talking about creating kind of a common area and a coffee shop and a gathering spot. So, you're saying it supports a master plan? Yes.

Anything else? Do we miss anything? You want to include the zoning C1? Yeah. C1. No. Yeah. And in many ways, the property is existing nonconforming. Yeah, it is. Yeah, very much so. You could a lot of reasons I had to get started. You [laughter] you could you couldn't build that building there. Yeah. No. Well, there two of them much like one. Either one. Yeah. So, by the way, are you planning on putting the trees that that are shown here? Go ahead. Yeah. We needed to bring greener to it. It was hard to figure out how do you create I mean, this is such massive amounts of concrete and asphalt. Then, how do you um soften it?

Yeah. Soften it. So, we're going to get rid of some of the sidewalk around the cafe. around that building too and bring in more grass around that building so it's not so covered in concrete too.

At this point I entertain a motion of approve the finding facts. Okay. Motion to approve finding of facts. Second move and second. All in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. Any further discussion? entertain a motion concerning this request. Motion to approve sign board of appeals case number 26-001 for a uh zoning variance for a ground sign. Actually, can I correct you? I know you will.

Okay. Well, I'm not trying to be rude, [laughter] but but the sign ordinance is not part of the zoning ordinance. It's a separate regulatory. So, what's the sign? Not zoning. Can I ask is there a projected time when you're planning it out? You choose their motion. I'm sorry. Can I get a second? [laughter] There was talk earlier of what do we want of covenants sub on this approval concerning the size of the sign and lack of illumination. Did you want those covenants in there or not? Yes, I do. Yeah. You want the covenant on illumination? Well, she's doing the motion. Yeah, she has a motion. We accept amendments to it and and the trees.

Do I want it? No, [clears throat] I think it's fine. I mean, we're finally getting what we want and I think that No, I'm even what will you accept amendments or to your motion? I think what you need to do, Randy, is back it up, take her motion, see if it gets seconded, and move on. Yeah, you can. Okay. Have a motion on the floor. Any seconds? Second. Second. Have a second. Now you can make amendments to it. Second.

I thought we were going to not second and redo the motion with the amendments we were thinking about. the way Robert's rules of order has it that a motion has to be seconded to have it moved forward to do anything with it. Once it's seconded, you don't have to vote on it. If there's an amendment to that made by somebody else. Now, if there's an amendment that comes in, it can be can be done if the original motioner and original seconder agrees with that. But at this point in time, I don't think that's happening. So what has to happen is a motion to amend that first motion has to take place with a second on that and then that vote takes place first and then you vote on it

because we seconded it. Yeah. Okay. That being said, the first question is someone has suggested amendments. I'd like to I'd like to propose that we accept amendments to this. Um, you want to make a motion to amend motion to amend the motion. Any second on that? Second. Second. Okay. So, yeah. Vote on the amendment and then you go back and vote on the amended motion. But we determine what the amendment is first. Correct. No, this just says we can amend. It doesn't say what we're amending. Oh, okay. The mo the motion to amend has to be specific as to what it is. That's your point.

Correct. But that has to be second after we You got to make the motion with what that includes and then get a second on it. So your your amended motion would be that the sign is not lit and that the sign is as per the application submitted. Yes. Is that what your motion was? and that we stipulate that the the trees be installed because that was something I think we're that would be a condition that could be added. I mean I think your applicants already said she would but that's I already paid for them actually. They would just [clears throat] [laughter] before the season and then the rain and the snow and everything came. Good. Then you checked.

So yes. So we're checked. I have to check. So okay. So we have So is that your amended motion? Yes, three a the three amendments. Three not let the sign as it's proposed in this document tonight and that there are trees planted with it. Yes. Okay. My motion. I would second that. Well, maybe we have to discuss. Uh my concern is with the lighting because it gets dark here at 4:30 and it's dark until 8:30 in the morning.

Mhm. [clears throat] uh for much of the year. And I think that if you're going to specify lighting that you should specify exactly what kind of lighting you're not approving because honestly if there was a small spot pointing out what's there, I think number one because it's so close to the road for safety reasons when it's dark out and number two for being able to identify the property. That's why I'm doing this. I mean, I understand you don't want a a sign that is lit from the inside, but everybody, you know, so many places have just small landscape spots. And I I think that for both a safety reason and, you know, it points up something positive in Franklin that we have a good point. this coffee shop.

There's not one of the uh hangover lights right in that area. Huh? There's not one of the larger lights right there. Yeah. I [clears throat] mean, there's nothing near there. I know that. No, I don't think so. So, that you know, that's my only concern. I I don't want to throw up roadblocks and I I want it to be successful and if it means putting you could put it down for illuminated uh by by amount of wattage and limited to the hours of operation.

So if she's closed it's not on all night. You know if you close at 9:00 10 o'clock at night the signs off at that point. Most businesses are but some leave them on all night long to advertise where they're at. And that's, you know, trying to avoid that scenario. [clears throat] What's directly across the street? Is it Is it a house? Residential. Yeah. Okay. But I mean, even if there, you know, you're talking about a sign that's here, the house is over there. And at the most, you're going to have a spot here. That's Yeah. It's not going to affect anybody. Yeah. Either that or they come up other than the sign itself. And I just

trying to do a 5 foot sign with a spot that's no more than two feet away. I have overhead a little overhead. No, no, not just we I just want to make sure that you can see it. We're specific and that you can see it. You know, it doesn't make any sense to have a coffee shop that's going to serve coffee at 6:00 in the morning when you can't see a sign. Well, and I would argue too that if it is the difference between like five feet, which would be in the which would be easily not even approved or we wouldn't have to approve it. Like the difference between that and two feet is not all that much. So remember, it's not going to say coffee shop.

Yeah. And it's not even going to tell what it is. You know what? It doesn't matter. That's not our decision what it says. Starbucks. So my my argument for that so many name Starbucks doesn't say it's coffee. McDonald's doesn't say ice or hamburgers. We've learned that those names are synonymous with those. It's all about branding and creating that brand and creating that awareness. And that's what I plan to do. And so that that's when is so hard about naming things. It's like to go out and say, you know, it's called the Franklin, you know, it's we don't know that it's just the it's the Franklin or you know, various things. You have to learn what that business is. So I don't think it's fair to say that something has to be called we serve coffee.

No. So the name is a name. You learn it's all about the branding creating the awareness around that brand. So the fear would be that somebody else if you sold your building and somebody else had this sign here that they would do some gigantic sign that maybe fits in you know into the code. They're limited to the size that she's applying for. Yes. Yeah. So, I think that's the fear, right? So, if we limit it maybe just to the size and take out the illumination piece. Yeah. Would everybody be okay with that? If you're going to amend the amendment, [laughter] you have to get the original amendment motion person and the secretary to agree to that. Well, I can Do you want me to amend?

No, you're the original original. We got the original to the amendment. You're the original amendment. Okay. I'm the amender. One of you both of you seconded. So, who's going to volunteer to be the seconder? Okay. Okay. Mark, are you okay with removing the lighting restrictions? Yes. Fine. We'll remove the lighting. Okay. So, your motion to amend now has two things on it. The size and the trees. Okay. So, let me let me see if I get this correct. Mr. Robert's rules of order. Sir,

I'm just going by what I know. I [laughter] propose I I I make a motion that we amend the original motion to stipulate that the trees as uh indicated in the design be installed and the sign size is bound by the size of the sign as proposed. Mhm. Second or agrees. Second agrees. It agrees. Okay. So now, Mr. Chair, need to take a vote on the amendment and then we'll go back and vote on the motion to see if those things are included in it.

Okay. Voting on the amendment. All in favor? Opposed? Amendment carries. Okay. Now you got to vote on the motion itself as amended. All in favor? I opposed. Passes. And just just so you know, we we just rules. We just passed a lot. What kind of trees are you going to put in in planning? So, you don't need birch, but it's a paper. Oh, they're white paper birch. Yeah. Like your proposed sculpture. Thank you. It's very cool. Um, it's purchased. It's sitting in storage. So yeah, it's very cool.

Thank you so much. So construction has we're well underway in construction. Great. Do you have a timeline? I mean, in an ideal world, Hold on one sec. Let's let's We got two things to do and then we're done. Okay. So stay here. Then we You got We had questions about what's going on. I move we accept the minutes of the previous meeting as written. Second. All in favor? I opposed. Done. That takes care of that motion. I move we adjourn the meeting.

Moved. So moved. Second. Second. All in favor? I I