Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

The time is 6.35 and I call this meeting of Planning and Zoning Commission to order. Please rise for the invocation and the pledge led by Commissioner Langley.

Please bow your heads with me. Heavenly Father, thank you for this day. Thank you for the protection that you give to us in this town where we have the great first responders that look over and protect us. And thank you for the town staff. Thank you for all the residents that make this a great community. We just ask for you to be with us tonight and help us work in a spirit of cooperation to achieve things that meet the, you know, basically the... Sorry, I lost my train of thought. That help make the town the best that it can be. And it's in your son's, Jesus Christ's name. Amen.

Amen. Next item on our agenda is a public comment. And the purpose of this item is to allow the public an opportunity to address the commission regarding any item on this agenda that is not a public hearing. Daily operational administrative matters should first be dealt with by calling town hall during business hours. In accordance with state law, the commission is restricted from discussing or acting on items not listed on the agenda. Any speakers wanting to take advantage of this will be limited to three minutes. When it's your turn to speak, please state your name and municipality and direct your comments to the commission. Is there anyone at this time that is wanting to take advantage of this opportunity for public comment? Very well. Next item on the agenda is the coordination of calendars. Our next two meetings to be held, September 28th and October 12th. Members, if the commission, if you're not able to make one or both of those, please let Lorianne know as soon as possible. Item F on the agenda, future items. Are there any future items that members of the commission might like to put forward? Moving quickly on. Item G is a staff direct report, and I think Purnima's gonna be giving us a report with legislative updates.

Thank you, Chair. Good evening, Commissioners. This is Purnima Kashyap, Planning Services. Again, I have legislative updates. So on August 17, 2026, at the town council meeting, Brandy Bird, who is the town's lobbyist, she provided town council with a briefing on potential legislative priorities for the town to consider during the 2027 legislative session. so she mentioned there were nine items on the list priority list she didn't mention that this was a working agenda she would work with town staff and town council to evaluate and refine that list so that we could identify and chart list the top tier legislative priorities for consideration and adoption in november of 2026. So I'll just briefly go over those nine items. And what I plan to do is send you the link to the meeting for August 17, where you can watch her presentation and then what was discussed during the meeting. And then I also plan to send Along with that, I know Commissioner Jackson had previously requested information on green walls, so that's almost done. We have met with staff, so I'll be sending that in an email as well. I know I've been keeping you waiting for long.

Early Christmas.

So these are the top nine priorities that was presented to council. Some of them are repeat from the last legislative session, but we're just monitoring it because we had interim hearings on some of these items already. So the first one is support legislation that protects smaller communities' ability to regulate minimum lot size. Support legislation that maintains smaller communities' ability to regulate multi-family development. support legislation that preserves smaller communities' ability to regulate access to redwelling units. So all these priorities are very similar in nature. These are all like the zoning, planning and zoning items, and they're all followed from the previous legislative session. So mainly our aim is to, there's a density gap that was approved, so it does not apply to smaller communities like Flormont. So our main aim would be to maintain the density gap, which was 150,000 or less population. So we want to keep that gap. So we'll be monitoring the session for those. The next one is support legislation that protects neighborhood character by prioritizing individual homeownership over large-scale corporate investment in residential housing. This was something that one of the council members requested to be put on the list. The purpose of this is to unlock the potential in older communities to prevent corporate investments buying older homes for rental or short-term rental purposes. So I believe there is a federal policy and the idea of adding this to the list is to kind of expand on some of those federal policies to create affordable housing in the community. Then the next one is support legislation that does not subsidize development costs through existing taxpayers by supporting impact fees and other development-related fees. The next two items are related to expenditure cap and sales tax sourcing, and those are finance-related items. So I'm not going to go into detail about those. Next two items are also carryover from the last legislative session. One is support legislation that advances employment and creates jobs in Texas healthcare industry by supporting a new Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center in Flavamount. And the last one is supporting legislation that safeguards residents' data privacy and ensures responsible use of video surveillance and digital information. So these are the items, and I'll be sending over the meeting link to you so that you could watch at your free time. That's all I had for today.

Thank you Moving on to agenda item H. This part of the agenda consists of non-controversial or housekeeping items that are required by law. We have two items on the agenda that are listed. One of the minutes from August 24th, 2026, and the other is SSP 26-0012, cross timbers at First Ranch Phase 1. We can take or entertain a motion for both of these at once. Are there any commissioners who would like to make a motion?

I so move that we make a motion to accept the H1, the minutes, and H2, the cross timbers at First Ranch, phase one.

I second.

We have a motion and a second. Lori Ann, please call the roll.

Commissioner Bayek?

Aye.

Commissioner Langley? Aye. Commissioner Gilmour?

Aye.

Vice Chair Hobbs?

Aye.

Commissioner Jackson? Aye. Commissioner Fitzpatrick? Aye.

And that passes. Moving on to agenda item I, regular items. Typically, the commission will make a recommendation to the town council on projects listed in this section of the agenda. If a public hearing is required, it will be noted in the item caption. If you wish to speak on item I.2, which is a public hearing item, and have not already done so, please fill out a green comment card. They're available in the back. And then provide those to Laurieann. We'll now open up with item I1, or SP26-0005, Argyle High School Baseball and Softball Complex. Please note that this item is not a public hearing. And presenting is Cody.

Good evening, Chair and Commissioners. My name is Cody Hay. I'm a planner with the Planning Department. And the item before you is the Argyle High School Baseball and Softball Complex Site Plan. So this just shows a general location of the property. It is located south of Canyon Falls Drive and west of Stonecrest Road. And this shows a more detailed location of the property. It is master planned for the land use of institutional and is located in the Denton Creek District. It is on PD 98 with single family 10 uses. And then this is the site plan in reference to those site pictures. So this is the site picture looking south towards the property. This is a site picture looking west towards the property. This is a site picture looking north towards the property. This is a site picture looking east towards the property. And then this is a site picture looking east towards the property. And so there are two exception requests being requested tonight. Number one is to section 98-1031. It is to maximum height. So that section states that additional height above that permitted by district regulations may be granted by the Planning and Zoning Commission at the time of site plan approval. And the Planning and Zoning Commission may require that the front, side, and rear yards be increased above the minimum requirements to mitigate to impacts of such increased height. So tonight the applicant is requesting additional height for the softball prex box to be 36 feet and 7 inches and the baseball press box to be 37 feet and 1 inch and the maximum height for the zoning district is 35 feet. And then the second exception is section 98 dash 1163 exterior wall construction for non-residential buildings. The town code requires approval of an exception from the town council to permit a roof pitch of 112. The town code requires roof and parapet roofs of non-residential buildings 15,000 square feet or less are to reflect hip and or gable styles that replicate residential scale and pitch between 612 and 912. So tonight they're requesting for the fill house and press boxes to be 112 roof pitch. All right. And then this is the site plan. So this is a large overall site. This is currently where the Argyle High School campus is developed with its accessory uses as well. And the area marked in red is specifically where we're looking at tonight on site. Currently, the site plan depicts a baseball field consisting of 750 seats, the softball field consisting of 536 seats, an approximately six thousand forty five square foot batting cage and proposing approximately eleven thousand five hundred twenty five square foot filled house and then previously when the stadium came forward there was a parking study that was proposed at the time for a parking ratio of one space per four seats for the stadium and so they've continued on that parking ratio And with the parking ratio based on the seats that are proposed with the baseball and softball complex, the total would be 2,197 parking spaces required. However, they're proposing 2,056 parking spaces. They're adding 25 additional spaces to the site at this time. And then this is within the town's allowable 20% deviation for parking. And then this is the landscape plan, which meets the requirements for street buffer landscaping, those parking lot landscaping, the compatibility buffer landscaping, and the foundational planting that's proposed around the field house. And then this is the elevations. The elevations are utilized brick, concrete, masonry units, and also metal panels. And they are in compliance with the paint that is allowed per the town's urban design plan. And then what's shown right now is the baseball bleacher press box. And then this is the softball bleacher press box. This is the field house that's proposed. This is the batting cage that's proposed. And then this is the entrance canopy that's proposed in front of the area. And just to let you guys know for some background information, previously the site came forward with the CSP last year to have a couple signs for the stadium that were approved by the town council. And so right now it's not on this slide, but I have a slide if you guys want to see it. They are potentially proposing a sign to go on this wall. It would require an additional CSP to come forward at that time. And then this is the application matrix. So this is a site plan with exception. So it will be required to go to the town council after recommendation by the planning and zoning commission tonight. And that is the end of my presentation. If you guys have any questions for me, please feel free to ask at this time. The applicant is here and they also have a presentation for you.

One of the questions I have, I guess it's the field house, the one by 12. What's the reason for the shallow roof? Is it line of sight issues?

Yes, the applicant will actually go further in their presentation about it. They have more details for you.

Okay.

Do you have any other questions for me?

Thank you, Cody. Okay. Go ahead and ask the applicant to come forward and make their presentation.

Right, yeah.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Sean Plunkett. I'm the national sports practice leader for PBK with pleasure of working with the district to develop this baseball softball complex. We have a series of images. A lot of them are going to be repetitious to the ones that you've seen. I'll go through some design logic as to why we've asked for and are proposing what we're doing. And then, of course, any questions you have, feel free to ask. So on the screen is initial renderings. This gives you a context of sort of the walkup. When Cody was talking about a potential sign location, this gives you a little bit of representation of a placement. To the left is the baseball complex. That's the taller of the two. So that's the 37-1 on that side. The metal panel. is there to screen the stairs that get you to the press box. We do that so that there aren't needs for elevators and things of that nature. So the site plan, essentially the baseball softball complex is on the same site that there currently are baseball softball fields. We've reoriented them to the northeast. That is the direction that you generally want to orient ball fields. And so we've staggered them this way on site with the central field house to create equity between the two sports. The landscape plan as shared by Cody. And here's just an existing image to give you some reference so you can see the baseball field at the top of the image there on the right and the softball below it. But as we talk about the roof pitch for the field house, what we're doing is we're referencing some adjacent structures that have similar roof pitches. on the site and understanding that a building of this size to do a gable and HIF roof at that pitch would be at significant height to the facility itself given the size. And so for that reason, gesturally what you see on the screen is our proposition on the left. So there's screening and a mechanical well at the rear for the HVAC systems that feed this facility. The two images on the right are an adjacent facility on site, and so we're using similar design logic for the application of this in order to create efficiency both in the mechanical systems, but also to create aesthetic overlap to adjacent structures. Within the context of the baseball complex itself, certain things start to drive the height of the canopy. Primarily when we design these facilities, what we're looking for is maintaining sight lines down first and third base. And in order to do that, you need to create elevation over the dugouts themselves. Within this stepped configuration of seating, which allows accessible seating at an intermittent concourse and maintains view lines from the seats all the way to the field, it drives the height for the top of the seating. That starts to get you to where the press box is. And you need to have the press box elevated to a degree where if someone's standing in front of it that they aren't blocking the individuals in the press box. And so cumulatively, this gets you to the height of the canopy. The canopy pitch is oriented as such with a northeasterly position that when the sun moves that it actually provides shade across the seating bowl in front of it. It's intentional and the press box placement is intentional to shade afternoon Sun from a pitchers eyes as they stand on the mound And so those both of those things are very intentional in their logic and path Additionally to create a pitch of six and twelve here when we design these canopies we design them as cantilevers So there are no columns that come down in the front within the seating bowl. So there are no obstructed views in the seating bowl. If we were to raise the pitch, it would essentially make a sail, which would make it both impractical in terms of its shading, but also impractical in terms of its structural efficiency as well. Similar arguments at softball. So essentially, we've designed the same thing with just fewer seats. And all of these are set up for view sheds over the dugouts at either side. Dugouts are at grade. with ramps coming up either side to the back for ADA seating at an intermittent course, which you can see here. So we split the seating so that all of the sight lines to home plate are not interrupted. You can see the person standing essentially in front of the press box. That's the view shed. Each of those parameters drives the height for the canopy itself. And essentially, the shading effect of the roof happens in the afternoon, past noon, as the sun moves to the later parts of the day from the west. And so it projects shade over the seating goal. Same condition at the softball press box. And this is just a quick anecdote, you know, talking about sort of the height of each of those relative to adjacent structures on the site. So there's some significantly taller structures. You know, I think the press box at the football stadium is significantly taller as well. But we're addressing your zoning tonight. And that is it in summary.

A very informative presentation. Thank you. Commissioners, any questions?

I have a few. Sure. So help me understand, I know the residents that live nearby, they're already dealing with a lot of crazy sounds and loud sounds and nighttime with the existing football stadium that's there. With the way you're proposing shifting, that you're having these stadiums oriented, it's gonna go directly even more so into that adjoining neighborhood. What is the, with the additional height, what's the impact going to be in terms of where they're mounting the speakers and what's all that going to look like?

So we're currently designing it for a sole source speaker system. Generally the sole source speaker system is actually embedded within the scoreboard. The scoreboards are out in, not center field, but offset from center outside the batter's eye in each of these instances. So the audio in these instances are actually going to be coming towards the stands as opposed to from the stands outward. And so that should mitigate the acoustics to some degree. Obviously, it's outdoor. You're going to hear the sound of a bat. But in terms of whether you're doing point source or you're doing distributive sound, so distributive sound, a lot of speakers kind of everywhere. This solution actually will direct sound more internally to the campus than outwardly. Is that an adequate answer?

You've answered my question. I wouldn't say it's adequate, but you've answered my question. Sure.

Any other questions?

Does anyone have, and did you bring anything? I'm trying to look at, because you went into a lot of detail and I appreciate that about the amount of shade created by the extra, the height of the press box and so forth. So do you have anything that shows like at this many feet? Because I think this is all depending on time of day. So like at noon, the amount of shade is going to be dramatically different than at, midday or late in the day or whatever the golden hours are. Yeah, absolutely. So when are these, I mean, these baseball games, when do they typically happen? Maybe this is for the school district. I don't know if this is a question for you because I'm sitting here like, okay, five feet, is it, how much less shade if we, if you do get to five feet or if you don't get to five feet, are we talking about... Because depending on what I've been able to do research-wise, depending on time of day, we're talking about anywhere from possibly 15 feet less shade to possibly 1.3 feet less shade. It depends on the time of day. So maybe we need to be talking to the school district. When are these games happening? How much shade are we really getting by this five feet of height difference difference?

Yeah, so realistically, in the morning, it's inconsequential because the sun's on the other side of the stadium. So it was looking into the sun. So the debate here is really, are we playing games after 2 PM? And in most cases, you are. They're after school games. And so most of the action on these fields is probably going to take place between the hours 4 and 7 p.m., which is actually the prime time in order for projected coverage. So from 2 p.m. onward is really when you get the skiographic or the solar effect of coverage for the lower end of the bowl, probably most optimal around 4 o'clock. So your question is, you know, if we're granting you two to three additional feet of height and we were to cut that canopy back in lieu of doing what you're asking, is there significant material benefit in order to even have the discussion? The argument I would make is there is material difference in the coverage. And there's material difference because the leading edge of the bowl would not be covered by the sun. And there's different times of year, right? So I could tell you this is in June. It's not a perfect science. November, but they tend to place specific times of the year. And in those times of the year, that's when you're going to get the benefit from this so you know we've had a lot of internal debates within the team with the district about the extent and the height is it covered for rain and certain elemental aspects you know when you get to these kinds of heights in an open structure like this driving rain is going to do what driving rain does and so The solar effect here, especially in a climate such as this, where it can be tough to sit in stands for a period of time, given the amount of direct sunlight, this is a significant point of relief for the fan within here. And so we designed it specifically in order to have the coverage necessary these times a day for the stands themselves.

Thank you. I know that's not an exact mathematical equation available because it's different seasons of the year, different times of day. But I'm trying to understand that, you know, and I know baseball goes a lot of the year. So I'm just trying to understand where, how much benefit we could get out of it or not. So just trying to understand that.

Can you point out on your map where the lights will be for the stadium?

Let me get you back to a . So there will be, I believe it's 10 poles, 12 poles at the baseball. There will be 8 to 10 poles at the softball. There will be two poles, and I don't know that they appear on this drawing per se. There'll be a series of poles back behind the stands themselves. These poles are taller because they need to see over the stands. We generally are looking for a higher foot candle count within the infield, and then you're somewhere around 30 to 35 for the outfield. That's standard for play. You do higher foot candles if it's always a tournament play venue. This is set for 35 and 50 in the infield. So you'll have two at the rear, you'll essentially have two more down each end of the sideline, and then you'll have a series of them, four of them in the case of baseball and a few less in the case of softball around the periphery of the outfield in order to get that coverage. The poles generally vary in height between 60-foot poles, and I believe there's 200s back here and then 80s in order to get that coverage for the viewshed over those various structures. We're not doing lights or lights that change illumination. We're not doing the dancing lights here. So these will be sheltered lights. So we're gonna try and reduce any light pollution to the periphery.

um but uh specifically we're working to technical metrics for foot candle coverage at the field for play okay so does that mean because i know there's a bunch of existing lights there now yeah it's been a little bit since i've actually walked that section but so are you going to be retaining a lot of the existing lights or is everything going to basically be replaced

So it's going to be a mixture. So we'll be able to reuse a bunch of the existing lights. Some of those lights came online fairly recently. So we're going to reuse as many of them as we can. We need to add some lights and some poles because the existing fields obviously don't have stands. They don't have to see over. And so I think we have four to six of these poles will be new. The rest of the poles will be Reused and then of course we'll reuse whatever lights and controllers we can and then we will add supplemental lights in order to meet the coverage requirements question for staff is there a requirement for lumens or anything as it relates to Lighting for stadium lighting or anything like that Public outdoor recreational sports fields and sport complex which this is they're exempt from the lighting ordinance and

Any other questions for the applicant? Okay, if not, we'll move into commission deliberation. Initial thoughts, considerations?

I think it looks really good. I'll share what I'm thinking and then I'll invite people to change my mind or give me an alternative view. I think this looks really nice. In terms of the height issue... It seems like a little bit of a non-issue to me just because of the existing exemptions, exceptions we've had for other heights. This is what is a total like four feet higher than what's allowed. And there's a number of additional heights that have been allowed there.

Just for clarification, for the softball field, it's only one foot and seven inches. And then for the baseball field, it's two feet and one inch. Oh, yeah. So it's not four or five feet. I'm sorry.

Thank you. Yeah. So, oh, yeah. Sorry. I was looking at the 39 foot for the classroom wing. So I was using that instead. Yeah. So I don't have any issues with it. I think it looks good. I like the sound is a question I was thinking too. And I mean, I think there's only so much you can do, but I do like the concept of having the sound kind of directed toward the crowd, the spectators. I think that's it. So I would invite people to share their views.

Actually, I had the same impression. The height is very negligible and the design is presented, makes sense functionally. Likewise, when we look at the pitch consideration, as this is kind of a part of a larger complex, the fact that the adjacent structures are already based upon a similar type of height, and there's also a functional reason that makes sense to me in terms of having that pitch at 1-12 versus 6-12 standard. So I think it is a very sharp-looking proposal, and it's well thought out.

The only question I would, and it might be a question, is that the same ordinance files for this stadium as it does for the rest of the town, that the lights are on and off at around 10 p.m., and that the noise at decibels level. And I'm sure people looked into that. So if not, let me know. And then the other assumption I'm making is, You know, the lights go out at a certain time that would bother the neighbors. And then the sound shuts off. Is it 10 p.m.? I think at one time it was 10 p.m. That would apply to this. It's a different school district, of course.

Do you happen to know if there's any kind of a standard in terms of a cutoff time for sporting events like this?

No, I'm not aware of any cutoff time for the games.

Well, it sounds to be from the presentation that we got that reasonable effort was made to kind of mitigate, you know, the direction of the speakers are oriented and that the light pollution factor was, there was some effort to try to minimize that. But I think the reality of any large sport venue like this is there's going to be bleed over. I know I'm a mile from one of the high schools and I can hear clearly when they've got a football game going on.

We can hear the band practice. We're four miles away from the high school.

Any other thoughts?

Yeah, I'll make some comments on here. I'm in the HOA of Canyon Falls where this is listed. I can't tell you how many messages I get from residents. asking me to do something because of the sound that we're getting from the stadium. This one is directly going to impact those residents nearby, including myself. The challenge I have is I think they've done a great job of designing it. I think it absolutely looks great. I absolutely love it. I just wish they would have looked at other portions of the property, to put it, because there's some other areas where this would have sit very, very well and would have mitigated the impact it would have on the local residents and community.

If there are no other comments, I would like to highlight one unique factor regarding this particular item. One, there are two things we're being asked to be considered here. The first is regarding height. We said, you know, it's very minimal difference here, about one or two feet. But the approval of that additional height is something that we can approve here as a commission. the second element is a waiver regarding the roof pitch and there we're making a recommendation to the town council so as you consider any motion that you might want to make regarding this item please ensure that we're addressing those two separate points a recommendation for approval or not height and likewise a recommendation uh actually a motion to approve or not and then a recommendation for approval or not as it relates to the waiver.

Chair, I just wanted to clarify that height can be approved by PNC. The height exception stops at PNC.

Right, that's what I was trying to communicate. So there's two parts to this that we're going to want to talk about. The first one is to approve or not approve that height exemption, and then the other is going to be about the recommendation we make to town councils. So with that in mind, would any member of the commission care to make a motion?

Well, the first one is I'll take a stab at it. I move that we accept SP 260005 for the requested height.

Do they have to go together?

Can we separate them? We can do it together. I'm looking for town council.

You can move to approve the additional height and then move to recommend approval for the waiver of the pitch requirement. So is it two different pieces we vote on? That's my question.

We can do it as one motion. You can do it as one motion.

And then in addition, I would recommend to the town council that we approve... The second part. Waiver of the pitch requirement. Approve waiver of the pitch requirement. The waiver of the pitch requirement for the buildings. Thank you, sir.

I second.

We have a motion and a second. Ariane, can you call the roll, please?

Commissioner Fitzpatrick? Aye. Commissioner Jackson? Nay. Vice Chair Hobbs? Aye. Commissioner Gilmour?

Aye.

Commissioner Langley?

Nay.

Commissioner Beck.

Nay.

And that leaves you, Chair.

I was going to say, that sounds like a 3-3.

That is a tie.

And I vote aye. So that motion passes. We'll now open up item I.2, that's SUP 26-002, total care ER flower mound. Please note that this is a public hearing and presenting is Chuck.

I'm sorry about that. Mr. Chair, members of the commission, the subject property is, it's actually developed, this area was a little bit out of date. Located, so 2.1 acres at Arrowhead Drive, Fireside, and across Timbers Road. And again, it's under construction in this picture, but it's about 16,600 square feet. It's a multi-tenant built for retail restaurants or offices. The land use is retail and the zoning is PD 185 with R2 retail district two uses. So this is the site plan. It basically went through the rezoning, got approved, went through the site planning process, got approved. And now with this specific use permit request, they're asking for a couple of modifications. The request, is for a medical office extended care, which means that the use would be allowed to go beyond your typical business hours. It's an ER emergency room. It would pick up about half the building. A little under 8,000 square feet. So the subject, SUP, is for this area that's in gray. There's a companion total care family practice that'll be also located in this building. It'll be operating under the normal business hours. But while I've got this up, the modifications that are being made to the site plan are There would be a patient pickup and drop-off area here with a canopy in the front. In the back, they would have a dedicated spot for an ambulance to pick up patients. Basically, this emergency room does not have any surgeons in it. that work there there's a doctor there's a staff of five and the doctors there are 24 hours a day there's a total up to i believe the maximum of nine beds but if a patient is truly critical then they'd have to be transferred to a hospital so what this ambulance is is there for would be to take the patient and transfer them to the hospital There's also a generator that will be located in the back that will be screened with a brick wall. So again, the building is essentially done. And so these would be the pick up and drop off area. This is the front of the building. And the canopy, those would be modifications that would be made to this building. And the same thing on the back. Those modifications that I discussed would still need to be made to the back of the building. This is looking towards the east at the residential uses across Fireside and then to the south across Arrowhead. There's also a nursery that's due west of the property. And then looking north towards Cross Timbers. So again, this is a relatively new use in our code, medical office with extended care. It does require a specific use permit in this zoning. It's defined as a facility or place where inpatient care is provided to individuals without the need for intensive care units or surgeons, and they don't have either surgeons or intensive care units. They'd be open between the hours of 10 and 7 a.m., including operations up in 24 hours. This term includes those not limited to birthing centers, urgent cares, and dialysis centers. So another look at the site plan. Again, two points of access. From Arrowhead, there's no access to cross timbers. Parking, the total mix between medical office and retail and restaurant required parking is 73. They, sorry, required is 91. They're providing 73, which is within the allowable 20% deviation. Landscape plan is again modified for the patient pickup and drop off as well as the things we talked about at the rear of the building. And elevations also modified for the canopies in front and back. We have one condition that with the SGP, it's basically that it has to be located as shown on the concept site plan. This is a specific use permit. It will receive your recommendation before going to town council. And with that, I would be happy to stand for questions. The applicant is here also to answer questions.

What are we calling these? One's extended care, one's family practice. So the 7980 square feet, is that just the shaded area here? That's just the emergency section? And what is the square footage? Oh, it says it right there, but I can't see it.

7,980.

And then the additional one is the medical practice is? 2,500.

Okay.

There are two things that I think some people express concern about. One would be light pollution operating around the clock, and the other is potential for noise pollution, particularly if we had ambulances with sirens that were running. Do we know anything I realize the applicant could probably address this more specifically, but is the staff aware of anything that's being done to mitigate that and the impact? I think primarily we're talking about residents that are to the east of this facility.

Other than having to comply with the town code in terms of noise and light, there's nothing in addition to that. And yes, the applicant... I did talk to him about kind of what the ambulance is about, but it's probably better for the applicant to address that.

Okay, I think the important thing is that there is not any exemption that's being sought in regards to noise or light ordinance standards. That's correct. So even if this wasn't a 24-hour day facility, you still anticipate that there would be lights that would be, you know, illuminating the area during the night, even if there wasn't traffic coming and going?

In accordance with our regulations in the code, for sure. Okay.

Yeah, and I look forward to hearing from the applicants in more detail. Any other questions for staff? All right, thank you.

Hi. My name is Cameron Culver. I'm the architect on this project. And as Mr. Russell said, looking for SUP for a 24-hour facility here, taking up roughly half of this existing building that was just built. Kind of the rest of the building is kind of projections here. We don't have any relation to those tenants, but we've made sure that we meet the parking ordinance and everything existing with our proposed use. and 24-hour care facility it is we talked about patient drop-off ambulance pickup i think pickup's the important word there this is ambulance pickup only we don't have ambulance dropping patients off here The two main questions were ones that we expected to discuss. And so we pulled all of our ambulance numbers for, there's 12 facilities that Total Care has in the Dallas area. All the ambulance numbers for last calendar year, so we could use a full calendar year basis, was 86 across 12 facilities. So that averages out to about seven ambulance pickups per facility per entire year. So less than one a month. Those are transfers.

Sorry, can you repeat the number again?

Yeah, 86 across 12 facilities.

Yeah, and how many is that per year, you said?

So that's approximately seven per year per facility, 7.1 something. And so, and those are, they're transfers. They're not lights and sirens, emergency, you know, someone has made it to our facility. If they're coming in that type of care that they need to be transferred, normally a transfer is because this type of facility does not keep patients for more than 24 hours. And so typically a transfer is because somebody needs care for a continuation beyond 24 hours. And so they'll be transferred to a hospital to maintain that care. It's not normally an emergent transfer. Lights and sirens are incredibly uncommon. So those seven is ambulance pulls up. We'll have an agreement with an ambulance operator. So we know who to call. They know where we're at and kind of order operations. But approximately seven for the whole year, not lights and sirens, not drop off. To the lighting question, we will certainly add lighting under the canopies so that we can provide adequate lighting for people to get in and out of the building. But there's no site lighting we would propose to add to this location. And so they've already submitted their site plan to the city. Any of their site lighting, photometrics, all that was separate and part of the site plan in this building that's already done. We would not be proposing any modifications to the overall site lighting. which I'm sure had to meet you know city standards and You know book candles cross the property line and all of those ordinances I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have beyond that Have so

I wanted to ask about the generator. Yes, sir. You guys have a generator that you typically use?

Yeah, so there's an emergency generator there for backup use. It's part of our state mandated codes for these types of facilities. And so if you're treating a patient, if power happens to go out, we've got a generator there to turn back on to maintain care for that patient during the time period that power is out. It is not a standardly used item, but it's there in case of emergency.

Do you have any information on the sound level of that?

I'm sure you probably use the same one. We use different ones based on our total electrical load. So I don't have one selected for this where I could tell you exact sound loads. But the generator itself will be in an enclosure, which is the metal enclosure that it comes in. Then we will have the masonry walls outside of that for screen walls. Those masonry walls would match the aesthetic of the building, but that would provide additional sound dampening and screening.

And then you guys, I assume you have to test those generators every now and again as well. You do that in the daytime anyway?

Yeah, it's going to have to be tested and just, it'd be a natural gas generator in this case, but yes, it would get kicked on occasionally from a maintenance standpoint. Right.

I notice the location, in addition to being enclosed, you do have that to the south of the property. So that's, I think, commercially zoned property that's across from that. Is that right?

I think you get into the residences south of that, but the front side is the cross timber side, which I don't believe we'd be allowed to place it on the cross timber side of the building.

Yeah, I know you're on the opposite side of that. The residents are to the east, and this emergency generator looks like it's to the south, central south of the building.

Yeah, due south is, I believe it's a veterinary clinic. Right. And residence is more southwest and east.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Russell.

So I heard you say, just to recap, the ambulance transfers are typically to move people into hospital because they can't stay there anymore, they need some other care. Do you have any information about what... I know you said they typically don't use sirens and stuff. Do you have any data on what types of... You know, when those were used or when they're not used. What's the typical?

Your typical transfer is going to be somebody who needs a longer amount of time under care. And so that's your standard transfer cause. Even if a patient's been with us for two hours, but it's known that this is going to be a condition that's going to be a 24 hour plus monitoring. then you might stabilize and transfer at the two-hour mark. And so we're not getting to the 2359 mark and sending people out. But as soon as you've kind of triaged that patient and identified that that's the most standard reason for a transfer. The other thing could be just somebody came in for something more serious than this facility should handle, and so then you're transferring to a hospital. Work to stabilize, take care of the patient while that ambulance is on its way.

And there's a number of these total care facilities already, right?

Yes, sir. There's 12 in the Metroplex.

And some of them are just sort of urgent care. They don't have the ambulance or they're not 24 hours. Would you have a breakdown of like what the...

I don't have a breakdown. Do you have all your numbers?

So we have a total of eight ERs and remainders.

You may have to repeat it just so that it comes to mind. He said that eight of them are ERs and then the remainder are family practice urgent cares. And so I think a logical correction to that would be we should divide the 86 ambulance pickups by eight, not 12. So I misstated that. And so that still keeps you at, you know, your average then is what, between 10 and 11 per facility over the course of a year.

But typical ambulance pickups, they would not probably have to come in with sirens blaring, right?

Correct. And so the number, I think, is drastically below what people assume when they think about this facility. And then it's not lights and sirens. So the ambulance pickup is not a sound item to be concerned about.

And how many ambulances do you actually have that bring patients in as opposed to none, right? Because they're going to go to the hospital instead.

We're not a receiving point for ambulances.

I take it you're mostly doing triage and light stitches and things like that.

Yeah, a variety of reasons somebody could come in. I mean, it could just be the hour of the day and there's not another place for care. It could be something that an ER might handle, but you might have a reduced wait time at a facility like this. But stitches, CT and x-ray are offered services. So, you know, end of the baseball game, you know, you've got a sports injury and you need somewhere to go. Um, this is, you know, most of the areas we're in, this is like a, a neighborhood service type thing. We are in these kind of neighborhood districts to serve the local yard. Yep.

But prescribed drugs, you go in like if you have a headache over the weekend and you think it's a virus or something. Do you treat that level of patients or is that referred to hospitals?

Whenever a patient comes in, we will see them and treat them accordingly. There are doctors on site during all hours. And so prescribing medicines is certainly a possibility depending on the condition.

Thank you.

Yes, sir. I have a question. So this is not an urgent care facility. It is going to be an emergency room. Is that correct? Yes, ma'am. So somebody in the neighborhood had thought they had the flu. Okay. If they came to your facility, they would be charged an emergency room rate. Is that correct?

That would be correct. Okay. Yes.

So it's not really innate. And my other question, and I don't know if this is a question, but you've got about a mile, a little over a mile from you to the east, there is an emergency room facility, and then you've got the hospital, which is about a mile and a half from where you are. So I'm wondering about just the... the need for something like this when you've got two facilities that are so close by that are really duplicating what you're doing here. So I want to know maybe what's unique about what you're doing that the other facilities are not going to be providing.

So I think, one, whenever the Total Care team, which is my client, whenever they're looking to select a site, they look into demographics and households and looking for areas that they feel are underserved. And so that is part of it. They do feel there is an ability to serve patients in this area. And I think maybe the other part of that Response might be just there may be other operators in the area doing similar things. I would treat that similarly to, you know, there may be a Wendy's, but that doesn't mean McDonald's can't open. There is a difference to different brands, different ways that they serve their client base. And so I don't think that an ER down the road necessarily prohibits our ability to serve patients in the area.

Yes, ma'am. One more question about the ambulance pickup. Is there ever any staging, like they'll come and wait for a patient or whatever, or they'll be stationed there because they know there's going to be a transfer?

No, we don't. They just get a call and they come pick them up? We don't have any ambulances that are part of our, and so no ambulance is ever waiting here. It's not a stop point. They'll come when they're called.

Thank you.

Just a question that's probably obvious, and all that ambulance is still part of the town of Flower Mound. You use outside only if you have to transport long distance? The emergency that the fire department provides.

Yeah, I think it's normally with private ambulance services because I think normally the local fire department, which handles EMS, is handling the 911 calls.

The emergency.

And so I think it's normally a private ambulance service.

So you probably have input with the local EMR and then output. gradually with ambulance service without the sirens and flashing lights?

Yeah, they'll always have a contract with an ambulance service. So they always have someone that is guaranteed to come within a certain amount of time. And so because of that contracting basis, it would be unlikely that the local fire department handles it. If there was an emergent case, it's an emergent case, then that'll matter. But typically it's an outside service.

Do you have any information about, like for one of these emergency rooms in the family of these, this total care, what does a typical overnight period look like in terms of patients coming in? What's the typical?

Like a number of patients in an overnight scenario? Yeah, yeah. I don't know that I have a good number for overnight.

So it varies by location. Sir, can I go ahead and have you come forward and identify yourself? Yeah, sure. So I'm Greg Flores. I'm with Total Care. So it varies by location. And so like our West 7th area in Fort Worth, we usually average probably about 7,000. patients and usually we have a partnership with the local hospital so we our services usually provide is an additional support to so prime example Fort Worth their ERs are constantly over loaded and so our option is always just a secondary option but we have a partnership with the local hospital as additional support to them so it varies by location But we normally average probably five to seven emergency situations that happen overnight.

Thanks. OK.

I appreciate the information. I think that some people had some concerns that this would be kind of like what you expected, a hospital emergency room with sirens, a lot more traffic, a lot more light. It sounds like that is not the case here.

And I think one kind of comment on that, like when you look at this site plan and kind of required parking as an example, required parking here is 40 spaces for this facility based on the way the city code is written. We would never have 40 people parked here. Like, that's the way we need to calculate this. That's the way the plan is. But five to seven overnight, we've got nine beds. And so, you know, if somebody's coming in, if they're driving in, they brought somebody with them. Well, they didn't come in two separate cars. All right. Even in the case they did, all of our staff, plus all of our beds, plus an extra car for every person, you don't get up to 40. And so I think when you think about what might be in this center, we will have a lower traffic count than if a restaurant was in this center. We do have the overnight, which could get up to five to seven through the course of a full overnight period. And so the overnight hours in the SUP are 10 to seven. And so over a nine hour period, five to seven. AND SO LOW AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC AND THEN DURING THE DAY A LOWER AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAN WOULD OTHERWISE BE HERE.

OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? IF NOT, HAS ANYONE SUBMITTED ANY FORMS? I'll go ahead and open for a public hearing if there is anyone who is wishing to speak at this time. And if not, we'll close the public hearing and move to deliberation.

I mean, I like that this is kind of a... It definitely serves the community. I mean, this kind of stuff is always a plus. But I'm a little bit torn because when I go and look at the original PD and the stuff that was removed, I mean, it seems like the intent of this site originally was retail and not overnight retail. The overnight thing is kind of the... is the thing that I'm hung up on, I think. And it's 50% of the center here. So it's not like there's a small part of it that's going to be overnight. It sort of switches, this is the way I'm thinking about it, it switches the intent of this this pad right here from sort of a quiet community retail store space to now it's a 24-7 operation. And so it's hard to go back and try to sort of reverse engineer what were the thoughts when this was originally approved. Actually, it may have come through when I was sitting here.

I just don't remember.

I think that's what I'm a little bit hung up on, which seems like a good service. I think we've heard good answers around, you know, there isn't an ambulance coming in all the time and it's not a hospital setup. But it does switch this, you know, I'll call it the majority of this sort of shopping center to now a 24-7 operation. Yeah. through an SUP versus how would we have responded if the original PD had been, this is going to be a 24-7 operation, which community members would have come out and talked about it then. That's where I'm hung up. So I'm sort of in two minds here. One is, this seems like a great facility. The other side is, this really switches the intent of this PD to be something quite different. And the other thing that's on my mind is, is if we went forward with this, I'm interested in what limitations we might be able to put on it, because while we could approve this based on this particular user, we would be approving a 24-7 emergency room. And so this user could disappear, and then this will run with the land, and then we don't really have, there's a lot of control that we wouldn't have on, now our ambulance is coming in 24-7. So I think we like if we I'm still sort of like I said, I'm in two minds about this one I would say to us if we thought about moving forward with this I would really want to deeply think about like how what protections will be put on behalf of the residential neighbors here such that what this applicant is Suggesting would be the regular mode of operation Would actually run with the land as well

Well, of course, the very fact that we're looking at a specific use permit is because of that, that change to something that's running overnight. I was going to say, I feel much more reassured after this presentation that, you know, the worst case scenarios and fears, I think, of some of the local residents of lights and ambulances and all the rest and a lot of traffic is minimal. The only thing, though, to address your concern about what if we have someone else that comes in later and they are looking at a lot more traffic and a lot more activity like that is that there is no exemptions associated with this SUP outside of our current code when it comes to light and noise and the rest. But I would refer to the staff just to see, you know, to your point, is there any associated risk or things that we would need to consider in terms of mitigating that possibility down the road?

Just generally, in terms of regulating the noise or the sound, just specifically for the ambulances, I feel like town may have a couple of concerns with regulating those. One would be the practical enforcement concern. The town does not have the ability to monitor those lights and sounds after hours. So that's one of the concerns. And then the other one, maybe the EMS personnel maybe may use their judgment to utilize the the sirens based on, I don't know, patient condition or traffic or whatever. So if there's, these are two concerns that staff has in terms of regulating the noise of the ambulance or sirens.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd be, I mean, I don't even know if that would be an option, but I don't know if I'd be comfortable trying to regulate the use of emergency services like equipment anyway.

At some point, you've got to trust the judgment of professionals that are looking at a person's life.

Well, I kind of look at it as an extended ER room. And one time I had to go to an ER room. I had an accident. I had to go all the way into Louisville. I would have loved to have that site right there. And I think that's what they're going to be treating. The majority of the people that all of a sudden have an accident or hit themselves with an ax, whether chopping wood or something like that, They need to stop the bleeding and sew up the wound. And I take it they're going to do some of that. And they also told us they're going to do some triage. And if I had a heart attack and they got me to a close place and they could put me on a quick respirator or something like that to get me to the hospital, I would just endorse them 100%. And I look at the service as being very important to the community. My only question is, when are you going to put one out in my neighborhood?

Pawnee, I apologize too. I felt like I interrupted you and you hadn't finished.

Didn't get your question?

No, I was saying you started talking about the potential regulations or whatever for the next operator. And I thought I'd interrupted you and you hadn't finished talking.

Let me think about what conditions you may add. I'll discuss with our town attorney to see what conditions you may add so that the next operator also has some similar uses in terms of traffic.

That's kind of getting into one of the things that I had made note about. So y'all know me. I like things that are unique. And I am not really leaning towards this because I do not feel that this is unique. Giving a special use permit, we have six of these facilities within a 4.8 mile radius of where we're sitting right now, Town Hall. So within a 4.8 mile radius, we've got... A lot of ER opportunities in this area. There's the ER medical city one that's just on the other side of Garden Ridge. It's technically in Louisville. Flower Mound Presbyterian has an ER attached to their hospital. In Flower Mound on 2499 near to Forest Vista, we've got Doctors Urgent Care. We've got Texas Health Breeze Urgent Care, 4630 Long Prairie Road near Long Prairie in Windsor. We've got RapidMed that's right on 407 east of 2499, technically in Highland Village, and Highland Village ER, which is just on the other side of 407 at 2499. So the ones that are existing in Flower Mound, other than Presbyterian ER, obviously, which is open 24 hours a day, the other ones that exist in Flower Mound, Doctors Urgent Care on 2499 at Forest Vista, Texas Health, Breeze Urgent Care, Those ones are open from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. So I do not think that we are getting anything that we don't already have. I prefer to see when we give special use permits, I need to see something more unique. And for me, this is not unique. We already have these services here. Also, the hours of the other ones that are existing in Flower Mound are 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. So I think that we already know that we've been told multiple times that We are getting watched. They come and say, we all gave this to so-and-so, so now we're coming here and we want to get that too. So I think that giving them, you know, the special use permit of 24 hours a day, we're probably going to expect to see the other two guys come over and say, well, y'all gave that to somebody else, so now we want to be open 24 hours a day. I'm not going to go for it. Not for me. Thank you.

I got a question for staff. How many people did we notify?

It was 17.

17. 17. Oh, and we did get one item of correspondence in opposition.

So we notified 17 and we heard back from just from one. Okay. That's all. Thank you.

One other thing that would be helpful to know in case this were to be, the special use permit were to be recommended, the permanency of entitlements. So if this business were to be granted a special use permit, would that entitlement be there and available for anyone in the future? Or would they also have to have a special use permit? Because the permanency of entitlements is something to consider.

Yeah, the SGP runs it.

Yeah, so it's permanent.

Regardless of ownership.

Okay. Thank you.

I'll chime in.

So I definitely agree with what Commissioner Jackson was saying about the other locations. However, this is a different type of service. I know we had a resident that had chimed in concerned about the lights and sirens, and I think we've debunked all of those and got answers to that. I do question whether or not that the business will be viable based on other things around it. But that's the operator's decision to make. And I can tell you firsthand that my son, about maybe two years ago, burned himself. And there was no urgent cares closed. So we actually went, I think, to that total care or whatever it was there in Louisville. And it was great service. We ran out of there real quick. Literally no wait. They grew out of there in an hour. It was great service. So it meets that niche that you really need for those times when urgent care is not available. I am a little concerned about what that might mean, like you said, though, if we can't, if they do go out of business, what that's going to happen to the property and what's going on. That's probably the biggest thing in my mind right now. But overall, I think it's a good addition.

Any other thoughts or comments?

I'm sorry. In discussion with our town attorney, so we do have this automatic renewal for SUPs. So you could say that this SUP is approved for like three years or... how many ever, three years, one year, they can come back to you with additional data so that you can look at it to see based on the new data provided by the applicant. That way it's like an automatic renewal every how many years. When they come in next, you can say another three years you'll need to come in. That's one way of actually adding a condition of automatic renewal in this.

And that's like an administrative approval or something that's approved administratively by staff or?

They would have to come back.

They'd have to come back to Planning and Zoning for that? Yeah.

Would we re-notify the nearby residents and ask them, hey, are you hearing sirens every month?

But we would re-notify the SAP. That gives me a little bit of comfort that we'd sort of be able to protect a new operator coming in and doing something crazy, but it also seems incredibly burdensome for somebody who wants to make an investment. If they want to go in there and sign a 15-year lease or something, they're like, I've got to go do this every three years. And what if the answer is no and I've got a 15-year lease?

I think the voice player just answered.

Well, we don't have to worry about that. The business owner's burden is, you know, them. I mean, we're worried about our neighbors and our town more than...

Well, yeah, but if this is me and I'm going to go buy, I'm going to go set up shop, making donuts. Right. And the conversation I'm having with the property owner is like, you know, I'm getting favorable terms because I want to sign a 10-year lease. And I have to go after three years and I get rejected. Now I'm sitting on a seven-year lease and I can't operate, I can't make donuts.

Well, let's confer with our attorney again. And I think what I'm hearing, there's a possibility we could give this to whoever the current occupant is. They wouldn't have to renew. The only renewal that we require if they change the occupant.

So you can basically put an expiration date on the SUP. SUPs run with the land. But I think adding like a three-year expiration on this could kind of quell some of those concerns you guys have about another user coming in and ramping up ambulance use or what have you, whatever your concerns may be. But then it would be revisited again three years down the road, whether it be this applicant or a new applicant.

So it's just a burden on them to reapply, basically, is what it is. Kind of like what we have to do for the fire alarms and things like that as residents. You know, we apply every year for a new fire alarm permit. Yeah.

If there were a three-year expiration on this SUP, yes, in three years' time, they would have to come in and apply for a new SUP.

Is there a way that if we considered that, we could apply it to the 24-hour portion only and not the use?

I think the SUP is just for that 24-hour service. So even if it was not renewed for some reason, the fundamental services during regular duty hours or business hours would still be appropriate.

Is that what extended care is? It basically translates to 24 hours?

Yeah, I think for this SUP, it would be, that's the case. And then if you were to add an expiration on it in three years' time, yeah, they would have to come and reply.

Does it have to be three years, or we can set whatever we want?

Whatever time frame. Yeah, you're open to it.

See now my only concern about that is that let's say in a year they choose to flip it and some other owner comes in and it's a totally different business model than what they have, number one. Number two, you know they set up shop and in three years they have to come back and go through the approval again and if there have been issues and they don't get the approval they're three years in on a business and they're gonna have to shut down. So that's my concern with the limiting the SUP for whatever timeframe we would decide. And I am concerned about the location. It's a residential area primarily. And it is a very different use than the original PD, which would have been, you know, probably stuff shutting down, you know, six, eight o'clock at night. And the 24-7 is a problem for me. And there is no, the other thing, when I first looked at the property, they have to go down, I believe, Firewheel. in order to get into it. So there's no entrance from 1171, which would take a lot of the traffic off of the neighborhood in the back, number one. Number two, to Pornia's point, you've got some rogue EMS driver who loves to run a siren. You know, there's nothing to prevent that from happening once this is approved. And I'm concerned about the neighborhood. I mean, if it were my neighborhood, I probably wouldn't be in favor of something like this. Again, to Michelle's point, it's not a unique business. There is one a mile on either side of it. And I just, I think there might be a better location for it than Yes.

Yeah, I mean, I guess I disagree a little bit in terms of the non-uniqueness because, again, like if I want to sell donuts right next door to the other donut shop, like let me do it and let me lose or let me win, whatever. Again, my biggest hang-up here is we're changing this particular site to a 24-hour operating site, which it looks like it was specifically not. I don't know.

I think that's also the very uniqueness of this. Many other similar facilities don't offer that opportunity at 11 o'clock at night or 2 in the morning when someone's been injured suddenly to be able to go and have this kind of service available.

Highland Village ER is 24 hours, and the one in Louisville that's right on the other side of Garden Ridge is 24 hours.

So we've got two, neither of which are in Flower Mound.

But they're within a 4.8-mile radius of this town hall right now. 40.8 miles is pretty close.

I mean, I think I'm okay with this concept. I'm okay with this in this proximity or wherever it is. Yeah, my hang-up is on this particular site. It was specifically not a 24-hour site.

It was really intended for retail, shopping, that kind of stuff.

There was, you know, pharmacy was excluded, I think, from the original R2 uses, which I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I'm like that. Chuck? Chuck? Is a pharmacy in R2? Do you remember this, the original PD?

The PD excluded the following uses. Convenience store, drugstore or pharmacy, alcohol, beverage establishment, fast food restaurant, secondhand store, and mortuary or funeral home. Those are prohibited uses that were allowed in R2. But not in this PD category.

I see in some ways I'm also thinking that we could be guilty of kind of looking for reasons not to approve something without considering one of the common concerns we hear about, oh, if this goes in and it's right next to my residential area, what's it going to do with traffic? And I know my limited experience, fortunately fairly limited, in using facilities like this is the traffic is very low. But when you need that facility, having it available is very important. And the fact that it's meeting all of the other requirements, including light and sound, which is in effect around the clock, I don't see this as being particularly detrimental in any way, and if anything, of value in terms of the service it would provide.

I just had something to add to the automatic renewal as I was reading through the ordinance. So automatic renewal does not result in an amendment to the SUP. So the applicant seeking change, any changes in the conditions, they would have to submit for an SUP, new SUP. But if it's an automatic renewal, if that is how it's approved, then they would file an application for automatic renewal. And then we would send written property owners to all property owners within 200 feet noticing that this is automatic renewal only. And then if the owners of 20% or more of the land within the 200 feet submit a written protest against the automatic renewal, then it will be brought forward to Planning and Zoning Commission. That's how the automatic renewal works. We've had some which had an expiration date also on SUPs where it expires often on certain days, but this is also available where it's automatic renewal unless...

In that case, there's no burden on the business owner. They don't have to go file stuff every year. It just comes up for renewal automatically.

Yes, it's just a written notice to the town, and then we send the property owner a notification saying this is an automatic renewal. So they don't come forward to you unless there's a protest or they protest or conditions have changed.

Yeah, the strikes moved out. That may be a reasonable approach if there is a legitimate concern that it would have an adverse impact on the local residents. I really don't anticipate that. The one email that I know that we all did receive and that concern, I think that was addressed very early on. I think that once something like this was in place, people would not even notice unless they were needing that service, and then they're going to be grateful that it's there. So we have heard some comments that oppose, some rationale for that, as well as some that support. Would anyone care to make a motion?

No one's going to do it. I'm going to make a motion to recommend denial.

I second. So we have a motion and a second recommending denial. You call the roll, please.

Commissioner Beck?

Nay.

Commissioner Langley?

Nay.

Commissioner Gilmore?

Nay.

Vice Chair Hobbs? Aye. Commissioner Jackson? Aye. Commissioner Fitzpatrick? Aye. And again, the OC chair.

I say nay. So back again for consideration. That motion fails.

I'll make a motion to approve with the language that Pornima mentioned earlier about the...

The automatic renewal? You're talking about the automatic?

The recommendation for approval with the three-year automatic renewal?

For three-year automatic renewal, and we notice the residence.

Are we sure we want to go through three years, though? I mean, it's three years.

Council can override us, right? I get it. They want to do. Okay.

I understand the concern, but I mean, I also want to be diligent to the property owner stuff too and not have to go through the administrative process as frequently if they have to do it.

If we're going to do something, I like to see at least a minimum of five. It could be changed after three years. I mean, we're not stuck with three years in perpetuity.

Can we change it once it's set? So you said it would be administratively renewed, but if we wanted to change it to go maybe we did three years the first time and then subsequently after that it would be five years thereafter? Or how does that work?

That would be a new condition. So they would have to go back to P&Z to get a five-year extension. Yeah. But an automatic would just be the same condition, so it would be another three years, and then they'd have to apply for another automatic.

But do you really want to take a chance on five years? I mean, I think three years is pretty prudent.

So the way I'm thinking about this in terms of the renewals and stuff is I'm thinking about it in terms of I'm a business owner, I'm going to make an investment, and I'm borrowing money. if I went to my bank manager and I said, hey, I'm gonna run this business, this is what it's gonna look like, this is gonna be my return over 10 years. But there's a little bit of a chance that it's gonna get shut down after three.

I'm thinking about the resident that has to wait five years and their backyard is right there.

100%, I'm thinking both as well, but it's a balancing act.

It's incumbent upon us to prioritize the residents. It's incumbent on the business to prioritize themselves. So I'm with Langley on that. I mean, I think I'd rather go with a littler amount of time. If we're advocating for our residents and our neighbors here, that's what's incumbent upon us. The business has to advocate for themselves. We have to advocate for the people who live in Flower Mound.

If everything's top notch, they don't have anything to worry about.

I agree. Right.

I agree, but it's three years too little. And then also, I'm looking at it, you know, like we residents renew every year automatically. It's not that you can't do it. You just have to renew.

Well, there's a process they have to go through because they have to reach out to the residents every time and see who wants to oppose and go through it, right? So it becomes administrative potentially, too, for the town if they have to see who's responding back and tally the votes and all the other stuff.

Mr. Chair, a specific use permit, if worst case, absolute worst case that you can imagine happened, For some reason, with not just this SGP or any SGP, town council can always authorize a public hearing to bring that SGP back in through the process if things aren't being, if the conditions aren't being met or if there's, if problems are being created by whatever this SGP is, the council can always bring it back to the public hearing process and it will come back through P&Z and town council.

I think that's a very good point. Thank you for sharing that. So with that in mind, do we have a motion?

Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion to recommend approval as presented.

And do we have a second?

I'll second that.

We have a motion and a second. Lorianne, please call the roll.

Commissioner Jackson? Nay. Hang on a minute. Commissioner Fitzpatrick? Nay. Vice Chair Hobbs?

Nay.

Was that a nay?

Yes. Okay.

Commissioner Gilmour?

Aye.

Commissioner Langley?

Nay.

Commissioner Beck?

Aye. That motion fails. Would we like to entertain another motion? I think we've already discussed the pros and cons and the alternatives.

Council can always override us. I'm gonna make another motion to recommend denial. Do I get a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. Please call the roll.

Commissioner Abayek?

Nay.

Commissioner Langley?

Aye.

Commissioner Gilmore?

Nay.

Vice Chair Hobbs?

Aye.

Commissioner Jackson? Aye. Commissioner Fitzpatrick? Aye.

And that motion passes. The time is now 8.06, and I adjourn this meeting.