Planning Board - Regular Meeting

That must been 15. Okay. A call to order of the city of El Plan Board of Meeting for July 2nd, 2025. We start with introductions. Lisa Laru, board member. Vince Messer, council member, whatever. John Deleo, chair. Rick Claus, vice chair. Mike Hangy, board member. Mark, alterate. staff, please. Britney Merrill, planning department. Robert Grant, code enforcement officer. Thomas Canon, fire inspector. Okay, moving on to item two. We don't have any minutes to approve. So, item two is preliminary plan review of a major use site development entitled Union Farm Equipment for applicant owner Union Farm Equipment. Proposals construct approximately 12,000 square foot building for farm equipment and sales sales and rental. Subject property is approximately 13.09 acres located 215 Downing Highway, tax map 16, lot 32 located in commercial zoning district. Someone here representing the applicant. Come on down, John. Well, uh, a couple of you can sit at the table if you're planning on testifying or or talking or or you can stand to the podium. As long as you're in your microphone. Okay. Yep. Okay. Good evening. My name is Ken Karen. I'm the owner and general manager of Union Farm Equipment. My wife and I have owned the business since 2004. Union Farm Equipment has been in business since 1949 when it started out as a little Ford dealership in Union. Um along the way, various implements were added to the pro to the to the product line. And in the late 80s, early 90s, we added the K Cabota line. Uh that was when the business started taking off into what it is today. Um so we have a 75 year history of being

part of the Union community. Um we enjoy a very good reputation in Union and and and most of the the down east area. Um we're proud to be a part of the community. Um it might sound trit, but we take a great pride in being part of the Union Fair, part of the the community and part of the little league and part of the various functions in the town. It's a small town. um we all pulled together to be a part of that. One of our successes has been um working our way down the coast and this is part of our our territory for K Cabota. Um the good and the bad is that we have a tremendous amount of business and customers existing in the Blue Hill, Hancock, Bar Harbor areas and we're an hour and a half away from our home and servicing those to the level that we have grown accustomed to providing has become a problem for us. Um we've also kind of outgrown the property that we're on and we So there's two reasons why we want to come to the community. What we'd like to bring is K Cabota. Uh we we have another line called Sanne and we have a lawnmower line that's a commercial line called Walker. Uh those three brands are are interested in our being here. Um I believe what we would bring to the community would be the same as what we do in Union. Um again, we're we're civically minded. We want to be a part of the community. Uh we we take pride in hiring local people and and giving back and paying forth for wherever we can. Our our mantra has always been that we treat people the way we want to be treated. And as a as a business philosophy, it's worked very well for us. When we make a mistake, we admit it. When we're when it's within our power, we fix it. And we simply try and treat people the way we would like to be treated. Thank you for listening. I made that all up as I went. So if there um thank you, Ken. Um I'm Sean Thes with Haley Ward. Um we've done the uh the

plans in this application for the project. Um so this is the site. You can see the uh this is the overall plan. Shows the uh perimeter boundaries. We have route u 184 here on the back and route one along the front. Directly across the street from this property is the Jordan Snack Bar. Um the site is currently uh vacant vacant land. Um appears to be old field that's slightly overgrown with some trees and brush and things like that on it. This is a more of a blow up of the uh proposed site plan. So the building is generally uh sort of in the center of the lot. It's approximately a 12,700 square footprint. Um, access coming in, it's sort of a irregular shape driveway, but the location of the uh entrance was uh dictated by DOT with our as part of our entrance permit process. Uh, due to sight distances and uh curb cuts on the other side of the road, that's where DOT instructed us to put the entrance. Um but the building we've located up sort of on the higher spot uh flatter ground. So we have the entrance coming in paved driveway paved around the building. We have some gravel u storage area in the back. Uh this area sort of along route one that's hatched out there would be an area for um uh display of equipment just parked on grass. It's not a imperous surface. It's a lawn area that can uh park the equipment on. Um we have some storm water treatment under drain soil filters down here in the lower part of the site.

Um a proposed septic system here in the back corner with a well. Although the uh the building will be served by on-site septic and and uh well um we provided a uh a site lighting plan in there. So there will be sight lights around the facility, some wallpack lights on the building, but it's all all the lighting is contained within the property. Um it's generally a uh one-story building. There is a mezzanine area, a small mezzanine in part of the building. Um, yeah, I don't know. There's not not a lot lot more to say. There's some wetland areas that we delineated, but they're all on the perimeter of the lot. So, there's no no wetland impacts associated with the prop uh project. We have our entrance permit from DOT. will be submitting a uh state storm water permit to main D because we have uh over an acre of imperous surface. I believe it's around uh 91,000 square feet is our total new impervious area on the site. Um so that will be getting submitted u most likely next week. be happy to answer any specific questions that the board might have. I'm just kind of curious. Um, how does this compare? I'm familiar with your facility down in Union. How does this compare sizewise with with that? I'm just kind of curious. It'll be about half the size of that building. Okay. I'm sorry. I have a license, but uh that's about half the size. Okay. Um the shop will be comparable in size if again if you're familiar with it. Yeah. Um, but the the main building will be much smaller

and the footprint will be smaller. I'm happy to admit that I own a Kabota. Uh, one thing I the entrance, the DOT have any discussion of having the entrance on 184 versus Route One? I mean, I'm sure you folks would rather have the entrance on on Route One. I was just wondering if they talked about having on 184 and come out to the stop sign or Yeah. So, I don't know if Mark might have some information on this. I know there was some discussions with DOT before before we got involved with the project, but the desire was yes to have the entrance on on Route One from the applicant's point of view. Hi, my name is Mark Jaffrey. I'm with Coastal Main General Contracting. Um, I initially started a conversation with Craig because I believe he it's retired now. Yeah. Craig and um pretty much um they did not want it off of 184 because of the semi-truck traffic and they wanted it off of Route One and actually in the DOT um permit they are not allowing us access off of 184. They are are not. So we can only have access off of Route One for the DOT permit that they issued. kind of curious because uh I guess I kind of compare it to Atlantic Landscape which is located on Route 1A and when they move there they have an entrance on Red Bridge Road and DOT required only light cars and traffic can enter Atlantic landscape from 1A all their trucks and they have tractor trailers and stuff that have to come in red bridge roadside. And of course, engineers change over the years. So, it's kind of strange that in one regards they don't want tractor trailer traffic on Route 184, which is a

state road, but they're more than happy to put tractor trailers on Red Bridge Road, which is a local road. Like I said, I've uh given up a long time ago trying to figure out DOT and and what they want and do not want. Understand? important. Obviously, you know, we, you know, if you look at the plan there, we we sure and I know Ken sure would love not to have that extra pavement if it was closer to where the building is, but um unfortunately they are the ones that set the location and the and they even put in the permit a uh covenant saying we could not access off 184. in terms of the operations on on site. I mean, I looked at a picture of Zoom picture or drone picture of the site in Union and there's like a bazillion, you know, pieces of equipment all along the road. I mean, they're they're not on road per se, but you know, all all along that that side, plus there's a lot of stuff in the back, which I guess is the rental or whatever. I mean, there's a a lot of stuff. Uh, and it would seem that, you know, what you've really called for in this doesn't accommodate near as much or or doesn't look like would accommodate near as much as as you have at the union or wherever it is site. I mean, it's an excellent question. We have Thanks. Um we're we're consciously scaling this to be half of the size of the building that's in Union. Um a lot of the things that are out back are are implements and stage um um preset up equipment and it's it's inventory. Um there's also 40 people on the payroll in union and you know we're looking at 8 to 10 to start here. It might scale up a bit. I mean, of course, but it's we're not looking at that kind of scale. Um,

as as the drawing shows, we'll put a smaller amount of equipment along the front of the road. Um, depending if the land is appropriate on the right hand side, a little bit on that side also, but I'm not looking to have this the scale of what we have in Union. Okay. um quite honestly from a management, financial or any other standpoint. Um in terms of of trucks coming or equipment coming and going, I assume it moves in and out largely on flatbeds of some sort or there's absolutely a lot of the traffic coming in and out of out of the entrance going to be truck traffic with trailers hauling big pieces of equipment? Yes and no, sir. Um because A a huge part of our business would be the tractors that these two gentlemen own, which is typically more pickup truck and and a tagalong trailer. Um we do sell things that are going on to bigger trucks and trailers. Um but as far as as as numbers th those don't hold a candle to the to the number of of trucks and trailers coming trucks and pickups and things like that coming in. There are trucks and trailers of course making deliveries, but that's not what we're talking about. do um when you when you did the entrance off of Route One, did you look at the turning radiuses and so forth of you know pickups with tag alongs or trailer trucks or whatever going in and out like for example if you're coming down Route One turning right into the site uh will they be able to negotiate that kind of S Yeah. is thing. So, the uh the layout we've run a um I believe it's a 62 foot WB62 okay uh tractor trailer to be able to come through and around the site because trucks that size would potentially be making delivering new inventory to the site like that. We don't expect a lot of traffic traffic

like that coming and going but there will be some of that. So, we designed the site for that and then of course we designed it for the fire truck route to be a for the fire truck to be able to come in and get around there. So obviously if those trucks can do it then the pickup trucks with the smaller trailers won't have a problem navigating unless they're bad drivers. But I it's quite wide. I mean and that was per DOT 30 foot 30 foot wide in and 30 foot wide out with a center island in the middle. Is that and is that center island is that mountable by a truck that comes in swings wide. So that'll be a that's a five I think believe five foot wide curbed because there's actually a sign one of the sign one of one of the signs is within that island too. So okay yeah that won't be a mountable island. Will they have to really slow down to make that turn and then snake around that island then if it was a bigger truck? Um, I don't know it to be much more different than slowing down to turn into any other driveway. Again, with a 30 foot wide opening there for oneway, okay, traffic generally a two-way entrance is around 24T. So, in this case, we've got 30 feet on either side of that island for in and out. When you when you did, you know, I noticed on the drawing that you have the site distances marked down, which is good. Um, I guess my question is, uh, are those kind of the standard sight distance, uh, numbers or do they take into account that there'll be probably a higher percentage of trucks going in to that site and, you know, going slower and so forth and and, you know, this basically what I'm saying is when when you do a sight distance calculation, it's a function of, you know, of traffic on the street, how fast it's going, and how long you're going to

be in the lane, acceleration, deceleration rates, and all that. And the averages are basically not kind of worst case scenarios, but yet you may have lots and lots of truck or a fair number of trucks here that would have difficulty or well, they make that turn slower. They can't accelerate as quickly as regular cars and thereby you would need more sight distance. Did you consider that at all? Did MDOT ask about that? No, this so the site distance that's listed on the plan is actually the measured right full sight distance of what's available right um and what did you need then I guess and what's what's need is based on just speed limit on the road um I don't remember exactly what the numbers are DOT has one threshold the city may have another one we look at whatever is worst case scenario um but those are essentially it might be uh okay 50 feet for every 10 miles an hour of speed or something to to that effect. Um so we showed what's available and that exceeds what's required both by what is required is based on you know kind of the regular traffic mix right cars and trucks and whatever and what I'm suggesting is that perhaps you might need more sight distance because of the preponderance of heavy vehicles that you know just need more time to make that turn or accelerate more slowly or whatever. Any consideration of that? No. Rick, if I may for a second, I think I think what you're asking for a question to something I've thought of since we got the DOT permit. Um, John, you know what my entrance is like in Union that's probably 24 26 feet wide and it's tight coming in and out of there when people are at the same time. And I've wondered why they've got this 30 foot on both sides of this island and the island's required and the rest of that. And I'm just guessing, but I would think that has to do with exactly what you're asking is so that there's two mechanisms of being able to turn in and

two mechanisms to be able to turn out. Yeah. But part of that has to do with how fast they can go, which is what DOT must have been doing. Yes. I I I don't know. I would I would like to see see that written down somewhere. I mean, I think that the traffic generation that y'all did was was pretty rudimentary. Okay. And you know there's there should be more information on site distance for example and to asssure that it make you know meets a relevant standard for a higher percentage of trucks than might normally be there be there would that not be why do said we couldn't have the driveway where we wanted it pushed it down there I don't right the sight site distance wasn't adequate where we had it dot said put it here that is where the site distance is adequate for for the for the assumption of a a standard if you will. I'm not aware I'm not aware of any calculation that takes into account sight distance for whether it's trucks or cars. It it doesn't change. It's a sure it does. Okay. Well, I know when I met with Craig, he was aware of the semi-truck access that we gave him and he thought it was sufficient. Yes, we gave him a worst case which we gave him three semi-truckss a day, which is a worst case scenario. Okay. uh FedEx, UPS, and a trash truck. Okay. So, we gave them all those and that's why he came up with that location. Okay. Well, I'd like to see that in the in the in the I don't know if I I can sure reach out to the state or maybe Sean, I don't know if you can. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get that. He's retired. So, you want something from DOT that just No, not necessarily. I want I want the analysis that you present to be convincing that the site distance is going to be okay given the traffic that'll be using that particular entrance and site in general. Okay. I guess I'm not sure what that analysis I mean the city has a requirement for sight distance, right? And all that is the table lookup. All right. And there are formulas and

and all kinds of things that go behind that to develop those numbers. You know, how long does it take a vehicle to clear the intersection, for example. On average, it's whatever. But if it's a high propoundonderance of trucks, then it might be longer. Okay? And this, you know, is going to have trucks and pickup trucks and trailers and all that going back and forth. So, there should be some assurance that the site distance is okay given those kind of non-standard conditions of traffic. I just kind of wonder, I mean, in the TRT report, the police department made a mention of uh explore options, make a right turn in safer, wider shoulder. Had DOT had any discussion of that? DOT had the only discussion with DOT is based on all the information that we gave them, what vehicles are coming in and out of the site. This is where we want the entrance. It's going to be a 30 foot wide entrance in, 30 foot wide entrance out with a 5ft island in between. And they didn't say anything about needing to widen um widen the road to add a turn lane or anything of that sort or and that and that would be another another option actually, you know, to have like a del lane or whatever u on one or both sides. I mean those things happen with much less volume than you might have here. I would guess. Well, I guess I but I'm not I'm not suggesting that you do that because that would be a necessarily a major thing. But at the same time, it should be, you know, that's another option. So I you say much less volume than we have here. I mean the the volume of traffic at this is pretty low and we're not on route one. It's not. No, but I'm talking about the volume of traffic that this project is generating, but it's how it interacts with traffic

in general. Okay. So if you have no traffic on route one, it's no big deal, right? If you have a lot of traffic on route one, then it is a bigger deal. And that's why it's important to look at that. Plus the fact that if you base all this on a 40 mph speed limit, the the question then becomes, do you pay base it on a 40 mph speed limit or do you base it on what the traffic is really traveling at in that location, which could be higher than 40? What's a little screwy about this your driveway and that that location is to the right of your driveway is where the speed changes just maybe 50 feet 100 feet. So as you're coming from town past your facility, you're in a 40 mph zone. But as as people coming by Jordan Snack Bar and anybody who's ever been to Jordan Snack Bar knows people are seeing that 50 mph sign right ahead. So they're giving it to it. And so and conversely coming into town they're now going from a 50 mph zone to a 40 mph zone, you know, just before you get to your driveway. So I'm not quite sure where you know which speed zone is DOT using for sight distance which speed zone are we using for sight distance I theoretically I mean your driveway is in a 40 mph speed zone but just to the right cars coming in are in a 50 and cars heading out see that 50 sign and I think while I'm on that uh I think it'd be prudent maybe to have the police department to do because I didn't see anything in in the traffic traffic information as to what we have for crashes between 184 and this in the town line. I'd just be kind of curious

because I know people coming in and out of Jordan Snack Bar. I think there's a fair amount of accidents at that location. I'd be just kind of curious how many crashes we have in that location either from get it from the city or from DOT and how are they happening? Yeah, I mean that the the crash diagram is important as as much as the number of crashes. I just want you know and I think we're along the same line as as people coming from town towards your facility, especially track to trailers. I hate the idea of them, you know, making the typical swing out into the other lane to make that turn. You know, make sure they have enough room for a tractor trailer. I mean probably 52 foot trailer I'm guessing some of your trucks are equipment is delivering that. So I mean to make sure that they can make that turn you know without swinging out into the inbound lane. Are turn lanes and entrance lanes an option here to give the people coming in and coming out of the proper into the property. Um I mean it's an option. I mean it's nothing that that DOT has required them to do. Okay. So basically I mean they're in control of that intersection as far as we're concerned. Okay. Yeah. Because it's better to find out now if it's going to be a problem because you don't want you're we want to make sure that your facility doesn't become known as where all the accidents are happening and you buy a brand new K Cabota you pull out and slam somebody slams into you that sort of thing or somebody pull it in. So, it's better to make sure it's it's the right way first just to make sure that it doesn't create problems because everyone wants accidents. Next question has to do with the number of trips that

are generated by this facility. Uh you've used the it trip generation stuff. Uh and I would suggest that there was probably more work to do on how many vehicles are or how many trips are actually generated. Okay? Because if you look at the particular land use and the numbers that you used uh you know without going into a lot of detail you know all the data was over here that developed the model that was in the IT thing and your facility is way over here someplace. Okay. So they fit a line to these data and said this is the average rate or whatever. Okay. And your the volume or the size of your facility relative to the size of facilities that were in the IT trip generation thing is a factor of like three. Okay. Now the thing is that that'll actually work to your advantage. Okay. Because I think it comes up with a lot less trips. Okay. But the but the land use well there there were problems with the way the trip generation numbers were derived and and used. Okay. Uh and it's also not clear that the even the land use code which was tractor supply something or other uh is appropriate for this site because those literally were modeled on a bunch of traffic tractor supply sites. TSC right track whatever uh as opposed to some sort of generic thing. Okay. So my question would be really the probably the better way to estimate traffic coming in and out okay would be to literally do account at your existing site because you're selling you know you're selling your renting whatever the same kind of equipment there obviously as you would be here. Okay. So the

traffic generated uh by the site your your original site might well be you know simply twice the traffic you would expect here irrespective of what the it tip generation thing tells you. Okay. So the assump the assumption and the working that you did work that you did with the trip generation stuff is is iffy. Sean, would you address that? Um, yeah. I mean, we could do we can do traffic counts at the other store. Um, and what I'm that's probably better than just taking taking the trip generation manual in this instance as as uh Rick that's that's what we based the numbers on was what what the model was at Union and then No, no, no. You p you based it what you said in the report here was that you based the number of trips coming and going on what you got from the troops generation manual. You may have you may have discussed with DOT as far as trips coming into the site for the city application. We need to estimate trip generation and it's normally based on the IT, right? Trip man. Absolutely. And and and that's the appropriate one to look at first. Yeah. No, no question. Question is it's it's not so good. We're talking about doing a lot of like traffic studies here for a site that generates very little traffic. So that's normally I what you're talking about doing counts and things like that is normally what we would do on a DOT traffic movement permit when we're exceeding 100 trips in the peak hour which we're nowhere as close to that. So and more to your your your you know more more to your advantage doing it correctly than than the way it's been done. And so what I'm saying is that what

you'd really need to do is give a convincing and logical argument about the total number of trips that you're expecting. All right? And this particular presentation does not do that. Okay. Well, we'll we'll work on the counts that they they had and present those. And and the other question is what happens. Have there been any counts at all? and not that you would necessarily do them uh on route one itself because that's the other part right well there's again we haven't reached the threshold where any of that's required so we haven't done count look one of the one of the biggest problems in this city has to do with traffic because so many bazillion people go through it all the time and they go through it oftentimes at high rates of speed and so forth. So to do a responsible plan, you need to figure out what you're really facing up to or what you're really dealing with. Okay? And like I said, some of this some of this redo or if you look at it a little more detail, understand a little better, it may really really work out to your advantage relative to the number of number of trips and stuff. What you have here though does not do that. Now, let me just say that without going into way more detail on this, I'll be glad, and I did this before with somebody, uh, be glad to, if it's okay with folks, to give Britany a an basically a memo that says, "Geez, here are the issues. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Address them and we're all good." Or we can spend a lot more time here. Well, I don't think they understand what you're asking for. I hope so. Well, I guess it would be helpful to have it spelled out because I don't think it's I don't know that it's what the ordinance requires. So, if it could be spelled out Well, yeah,

let's move on. Um I the rest of the comments had had to do with which land use code you should be using and so forth. And you know these models the IT models in this particular case are based on very few data. They don't even give you the the parameters of the model. It's so problematic. So you have to be careful when you use this stuff. I think that's it. Oh, I got a bunch. Oh, go ahead. I got a bunch. Sorry. Um Okay. I What was your name again? My name is Ken. Ken. Ken. Hi, Ken. Um when you one of the first questions was about the hatched area in the front for the sto for the display areas and like said uh like you said the the um that's on your uh C 100. Yes ma'am. And so in your other site you have obviously vehicles all over the place which we've seen. Everybody can see it for themselves at the site and on Google Earth. It's all there. you got tractors and trucks everywhere and little roadways that lead to them and whatnot. So, it's a double question on that is that um if there's going to be if if you ever hope to do that as well and put storage or display beyond this display area, I'd hate to see you box yourself in because this site plan says that's the only place you're going to have display. you haven't shown any they haven't shown any areas of this storage over you know equipment storage over overstock um rentals whatever if that's going to be part of this site then it would behoove you to have it on the site plan because

otherwise it's not part of the site plan approval. So if that's an something you want to have even as a lesser scale because it's a smaller project if you don't put it on the site plan then you've gone outside of the approved site plan and then in turn on the site you have in union and and we understand that that's that's your business. You need to have resale lot places and places to store extra equipment. And then in turn, if the fire department did their approval based on this site plan and then you put like little roadways that lead to 50 tractors lined up in the back, how do they get to that if they don't even know that it was going to be existing? So, if there's a fire in one of the pieces of equipment, how do they get back there if they didn't even know there was going to be like all these little roadways and stuff that you have? Um, I looked at uh this is a Google Earth site and it it's quite a road map back there. So that's a question that I have that if you want it one one item is Google has added those roads. Those roads don't exist. It's just Yeah. I mean they're pretty. It's kind of neat, but it's leads to other equipment. But if there's a fire back here in one of your pieces of equipment, how is the fire department going to get back there if they didn't even know it was going to be there? So I don't want to pigeon hole you into just I understand. And and what we did in union was this this was based on what we're foreseeing ourselves for the next 5 years or so. And then if the growth is there, which we hope it is, then I would see us back here asking for permission to add various. So there won't be any storage of vehicles or equipment or anything beyond the parking area, the gravel area and the display area. I I I I just the only area that we are thinking of right now is behind the shop at the coming down to the lower left corner. It's a darker shade as a gravel.

The gravel area is as that gravel. That is that's what we're thinking about. Okay. I just want you if you're going to plan big, go now's the time. don't you know don't don't sell yourself short on what your plans are on that. So that's one thing. Um then we have um the building you have the signs shown on some of the draw sign pages. Um or was signs I think C102 had signage. Um, it shows, you know, the big K Cabota sign out front in the drive and then a couple signs on the building of service and parts and a couple other things. But your union property, again, I don't want to see you like cut yourself short at this point. Now is the time to dream big. If if you look at your union building, you've got, you know, K Cabota and the all the other companies and all the products that you brand. Yes. We haven't we were more concerned with the the physical layout and and and this stage um we haven't discussed the building. I know that there's 200 square feet or something that we could have on the building, but at this point we were more concerned with the physical layout of the property as to what might be up there. I get that, but I hate to see you have to come back before anybody if you're going to do a bunch of signs like a two here and two here and two here and two here. If you're going to do it, maybe open up that any signs that they put on the building. They don't you don't care. We don't care. We might care, but we can't do it. Yeah. Okay. So, just the big one and the I care what's on the building though. So, we'll be okay there because it does affect the aesthetics of the building, how it looks as far as you know, a bunch of signs out front and the only one they've shown is the service and parts. That leads to my next question. um in the section uh the building section on A102 the AA section there's a you know the section through the wall and it shows that under the canopy overhang

and that's on A102 I believe it shows it says get the exact wording for that section it says non-usable space not to be used for storage now is that the entire under canopy or is that simply that specific small section? Because that is that small section in the showroom. Um that is over if you look at the plan that is over the sales man's office. I just wanted to be sure that three and four that's uh talking about that area there. Okay. Because we wanted to make it perfectly clear we were not storing things up there. We're not going to put a railing up there. Literally we're just putting a drop ceiling in for lighting into those offices. Okay. And then so the canopy all around the building is going to have storage like you have at your other facility. Canopy around the building is going to be for displays for equipment and it'll be down lit um which ward has shown and we've they've shown it on their plans. One of the concerns I had in looking at the photographs of your building from your website and from Facebook pages and people's pictures and stuff, and I don't know if this the case, but many of the tractors and pieces of equipment extended beyond the the expanse of the canopy, just enough that they're sticking out just a little bit. A little beyond. If I can address that, we purposely made this bigger than what they have at Union Farm. We saw that. Okay. Thank you. We also made it higher as well. Okay. because that becomes a problem if if your site triangles for fire department and and access are based on a shorter canopy and the equipment sticking out now you're into the fire department lane. So the the canopy being bigger solves that should solve that problem. We went deeper to avoid that problem. Okay. So you won't stick out beyond and impinge on the infringe on those fire department

area. Um hours of operation similar to what at your other store? That's what we're thinking. like Yeah. Yeah. Close Monday uh Monday through Saturday 7:30 to 5. Um um I I didn't notice much lighting for the dumpster area. Did I miss it? I There was a lot of X's on that page. I didn't see a lot. So like at night time it's winter time and you know four o'clock 5 o'clock in the morning or trash truck comes or whatever. Is there enough lighting in the dumpster area to avoid any issues? If it's if these lights on this building work like they do in Union, the the we we don't have freestanding lights in Union either because I like dark sky. Um and if the building light is not appropriate, we'll we'll just address that. But it looks like there's a light right across from where that that Yeah, it's on that like corner there. I just didn't know if it would shine all the way through. And um so we're showing about one foot candle at the dumpster area. Pretty pretty. Yeah, that's st lighting, but there's there's something you can see your toes. That's about it. Um and the other question I had is more of a building related as far as the for the fire department with the firewall separation that they have so they don't have to be sprinkled. That wall happens to run right through the service parts. And how can you explain like how that's going to be handled and if you think that's an appropriate location to put that? It is. So basically they'll have a fire rated rollup door and then the other two the other door on the other side will be fire rated as well. This will go to design to UL and it'll get it'll get stamped approved and then um goes back to these guys for design and draw. Okay. So the man doors are between the

two departments. somebody comes in for service and they have to go to parts and they're in parts they got to go to service and the way I don't know how your other building is designed but so that would mean that those particular doors the man doors not the roll-ups because they'll come down in case of fire but in the man doors they have to stay closed at all times correct they they have self-closes on them to do that in in the event of fire they would but normally they stay in the closed position anyway so just as a business person when you're trying to run your operation that's that can be you And you got people going passing through. So that's exactly what we have in union. Okay. Good. So you're used to that. All right. Good. Yep. Thank you. It's Yeah, that's Yeah, because sometimes if they're put in an awkward place, then what happens is somebody puts a chuck under the door and now you've got a fire violation and now when the fire department comes, you've got heat. So respectively, I'm going to have more than a fire issue. If someone puts a chuck under a door and we have a personnel issue, it's it's an excellent point. Okay. That's all. U some followups for Tom. Uh a little more discussion on on the fire suppression. U there's not going to be sprinkler system. Uh in some developments we've had uh we utilize sistns, but there's not going to be sistns here. Correct. Correct. Is that basically because the fire hydrant is close enough that No, this location wouldn't need it. This is a single building. In theory, this is being split into two buildings and may building A, building B with the with the firewall. That's what the firewall is doing is splitting it into two. So, it's taking it from the 12,000 something square footprint down into 6,000 and change and 6,000 and change. So, therefore, it goes under that threshold which does not require fire suppression. Okay. And I and one of the letters in here, I think the said that the fire hydrant was about 2500 feet away. 25 2,800 feet. Yes.

And presumably if there was a fire here, you would be utilizing the fire hydrant. If there's adequate water, yes. Can we get something from the water company as to what the flow and pressure is at that hydrant? if that meets, you know, your standards or just to give us a better idea if there was a fire, how that's going to actually be handled. We show up and put the fire out. Whether if a hydrant works or doesn't work, we'll either put drop tanks down or we'll do a roll hitch with another tanker truck. And um the other thing is is that Hancock has within about a half mile, 3/4 of a mile, they have a dry hydrant right there at the golf course, too. So we have two water sources. We have the static on one end and then we have the hydrant on the other end. So we do have adequate we have water either direction from this facility. Okay. Is their fire alarm system going to be a monitored system like a 247 monitored system? Okay. at the your two-hour firewall um is I challenge firewall according to the um narrative on page I'm not sure page seven um of your narrative under fire suppression in um you have a detailed drawing of that or can you supply it that I may not be able to supply it by the next meeting it's currently being engineered and designed. We planned on submitting that for carbonate. Okay. And the reason why I ask is normally when you have a high challenge firewall per se like that, you've got one, two, three or four openings in that challenge

wall. Um that's that's that's significant in the high challenge firewall. I have six openings. Okay. So that that's even more so. And the fact that it's a twostory building. so to speak. Um the challenge goes from the from the slab all the way to the underside of the roof deck. Y um separating the two buildings. Um that I think would be the significant that that be some sort of in the record for for this plan that we have that um yeah I apologize. I thought that was the going to be through permitting not through P&Z. Yeah. Well, it it doesn't have to be for for for the signing of the plan, but I think it'd be good to have it as a record somewhere. Um I will get it to the town as soon as I can get it done. And we have done them before in our company, so we're aware of the implications. Yeah. Involved with those. Yeah. And and I understand, you know, the idea of separating two buildings that literally exempts the building from a sprinkler system um by making it two separate buildings. Um, I'm going off of what uh Chairman Dio had to say as far as the sisterns. Uh, my concern is, and I'll give you a little bit of history concerning the fire hydrant that we're talking about um up on the hill that's 2,800 ft, half a mile away. Um, that's the end of the line for for the water. It doesn't come any further. Um, the car dealership is on city water, but they have to have a fire pump to supply their sprinkler system because of the lack of pressure for that system. Um, Napa Auto Parts that has a sprinkler system in it had to modify their sprinkler system. In other

words, they have to put the flow valve for when the sprinkler system went off all the way at the roof because the head pressure from the sprinkler system wouldn't allow the valve to trip because it overcame what was in the hydrant. Um, so it's imperative that you make sure you get you understand what you've got for water pressure in that hydrant, that you've got some water coming out of there because as soon as these guys put a truck on that hydrant and it goes below 20 PSI, they're done. They're not going to be able to pull any more water out of that hydrant. So, it's imperative that that be checked. in Union. Part of this would be grandfather, but um the reason that we have the firewall in there is um we don't have any hydrants. We don't have anything like that. There's there's dry hydrants in quaries and stuff like that. So, it's it's a very very very real issue. My thought, my father's thought, our family's thought has always been, god forbid it happens, but at least that will contain everything in the shop where one would assume the fire would be and not come into where the rest of the building is. obviously an avoidable situation if if there but that's I I I wholeheartedly agree and if it has to be at least we'll contain it in there hope hopefully and I I'll be so bold if it comes back and Mark knows this that if it comes back from the fire code that uh we need to alter something because of these openings then that's obviously a conversation that that we're going to listen to because that that has to take precedence over whether or not we can walk easily between one side and the other for this the parts room the biggest thing is you're protecting not just your building and your employees, but the public that's in there. Um, and not only that, basically, um, the idea, the way the building is built based upon NFPA1 is to protect

firefighters. Yeah. Okay. Um, that's the intent of the code is to protect those that are going into that building to fight the fire. That's specifically identified in NFPA1. So, um, it's it's it's it's it's something that's really important and I'm sure that the chief and the fire inspector will will adhere to that, too. So, thank you. On that same thing, I got one more question that came up. So, you're having the the the wall um engineer to be consistent with UL and get a rating and listing for all the devices that are going to be there and compliance. I I don't know because I'm sort of new here. So, um, who does the inspections on the wall to make sure the integrity of the wall is as per the listed how it's decided? So, once they once the design is done, they send it to me and then while they're building constructed and I look at I make sure they're doing exactly to the design that was that was gr stamped by the architect. Okay. Or the engineer whoever signed it. Okay. Good. Just as a completely side note, if you've never seen one of these being put up, it's a firewall does it. Yeah. The cinder block, then they pour it with concrete and then they do this. It's It's quite an ordeal. It's quite a process. But y you got to have a lot of through penetrations because you've got not only vertical, but you got horizontal too with the mezzanine above. So, it's going to be pretty tricky, but it can be done. Are there any special This is different here. She's done with fire stop. The fire stop. Okay. The uh are there any special environmental related things to be done because of the of storage of outdoor storage or so much equipment on bare ground? No sir. Nothing that we've ever had as as

requirements. The only thing that I will point out is um our design and the same design in union will be there'll be a floor drain in the shop that will come into a sistern area that is a self-contained system and then we will have an evaporation system that will be on property that will that will take care of so that's all inside that will be 100% closed loop system. What about you know like for example you know on your right in this yes thing with or without the roads um you know there's a lot of outdoor storage of you know equipment that could be leaking or whatever I mean and what what what have you done what are we doing here to catch all the runoff from those storage areas I guess that's there's never been a requirement of me to have to make sure that I have 100% containment. I do have a containment system. There's a an oil containment system that if there's over 1300 gallons we have to have a bladder system um and if we have that much oil which I don't see it um um then we would have um basically bladders around that area outside there's there's never been in in 75 years there's never been anyone ask me to do something on storage of the equipment outside I'm not familiar with anything in the equipment industry or any other I'm not trying to be rude I I I'm not you know that I I it's has not been an issue. Is there a chance that that a lawnmower can leak oil? Obviously, there is, but it's not it's not What about just regular What about just regular storm water runoff from the storage areas? How is that hand? It's all going to the the two under drain soil filters down here for storm water treatment. Okay. So, it's intercepted before it gets off site. Yes. Okay. because it did. I was actually I had a question about storm water. Okay. Okay. Do you you get the question on storm water? Sure. Okay. So,

why not? Yeah. So in the stormwater management narrative uh fifth paragraph says based on the results of our analysis we have estimated a small increase in peak flow for three of the offsite summation points during the 2.7 in rainfall event. But then on the next page on on your little chart, uh it shows the 2.7 inch rain event pre and post. Uh post is less uh on both summation point one and two could it seems to be a little confusion there. In one regards it says I would say that that is a typo in the narrative because there are only there's only two summation points. Yeah. And it mentions two of the three. Although on the next page it I think you have three selection points. Looks like in the graphic on the next page after the chart go one more page. No. So there's three subcatchments. Okay. But two summation points. So the these two here are the summation points. This has two subcatchments that go to one and this goes to another one. So there's two summation points, but it might be easier to show on the actual plan. I can show you the water sheds. So there's a watershed area here, this watershed area here, and then the rest of this wershed area here. So this this larger area comes down to this point. This area comes here up

to this wetland. This one here goes out to the that's in the pre-development conditions in post development. They're sort of the same areas. There's this one here that continues to go that way. There's the bigger one here. Actually, there's um four in post-development conditions. So, there's the one here, this one here, the bigger one here, and then another smaller one in the front. And I was just going to say, so I mean, is there some way for you to show without getting into the your technical charts if that paragraph is correct? Yeah. Well, I'll double check. I'll I'll double check that. And Okay. And what actually what I found amazing is that that uh this goes into basically goes into the Cardbrook watershed which I never would have thought possible. Yeah, I believe it it goes into an unnamed unnamed stream here which crosses and goes up and then ties into Cardbrook. Yeah, I find that amazing. Card Brook's everywhere. Yeah, apparently it is. It does get around but it goes everywhere. So, so the the leftmost uh catchment area and the and the bigger one, those are basically just what was catching before it still catches pretty much pretty much. I mean, some of the interior boundaries have been changed a little bit with the proposed grading, but yes, this area here is generally the same than this one here. So the the concern with any runoff from storage areas or parking lots or anything like that would be right the two areas that really are right around the building. Yeah, these areas here. Yeah, those guys. Okay, I guess I have one more question for Tom on the let's talk about the ladder

trucks because that's your biggest truck. So, getting back to the entrance, I mean, you can make that right turn into their entrance without going into the incoming lane. Yes. Okay. I mean, that's what I'm mainly concerned about seeing as that's your biggest truck. Okay. Yeah. Other questions? I had questions, but thanks to uh Rick, most of them have been answered. They've all been answered. I was really concerned about the entrance traffic flow and that kind of thing. And um it seems like we've addressed those things or will be addressing. I would actually for not not so much the entrance but but the speed limit in that area. I would highly suggest to the city that they ask DOT to do a speed study in that area. Seeing as the change in speed is right there pretty much at their entrance. Uh, and I think every I think when you when you check the crash results, I think I think there's a fair amount of crashes in front of Jordan Snack Bar and that whole area. As people are heading out of town, they know the 50 zone is is coming up and everybody knows 50 m 50 mph speed sign doesn't mean 50 miles an hour. And conversely, coming into town, they may see that 40 mph sign, but many people's mind that says, "Okay, I got half a mile to slow down." So, this is true. I think I think it would be in everybody's benefit to to ask the state to consider pushing that 40 sign further down into handout. You could ask DOT to do a study. They do them all the time. It would certainly be an appropriate place. Yeah. I thought so. Are you going to have a gate on the entrance? I'm sorry. Are you going to have a gate like you

have at your other store? Okay. So, it's going to block off the the main entrance. What we're thinking is would be down. I didn't see one on the plan, so I was curious. Well, and we haven't even talked about it, but what we're thinking from a security standpoint if if we do a gate because we we haven't even had this discussion. So, I'm just speaking of what I'm thinking would be much farther onto the property than it is in Union because Union is right on the edge of the road. So, if you're trying to pull off, you're basically on the the cut down lane. And if you have a trailer, it's it's it's just not good. But, it's where it is. I bought the place, you know, it's it's what dad built. But, um, so come back down something appropriate with that island or something that would be able So even if a pickup truck had a trailer to be able to pull into that and then and then open the gate. Yeah. Like somebody go like, "Oh no, now I got to back out on the road." I wasn't I wasn't thinking about customers. I was thinking about if if a person was coming home from a delivery and it was evening or something like that. Yeah. So I mean there's a lot of different ways to worry about a gate. I mean, sometimes it's good to have it right there so they know I can't pull in. Or if they pull in halfway, now they're sticking out on Route 1A and they got to back up because they they they came in halfway. And then the other thing would be if if it's gated to um I guess that you would have keys at the fire department so you could get in. So by the gate, out by the gate, too. Again, none of these I mean, you're you're just asking me a question we haven't even discussed. But again, if it's on here, then it's and it's not on there. So I guess the official answer would be I don't have a gate. So, if I can make a com make a recommendation, we did this with BARK Storage um on the Bango Road. Um cuz theirs is all gated. Um the discussion went the fact that if the fire department pulls up and there's a gate, they got to stop in the middle of the road to get the gate open in

order to get in. So, the gate was pushed way back into the property so that the truck could at least get off the road before. So you might want to think about the length of his ladder truck as to how far that gate needs to be in off the road so at least they can pull off of Route One to get into your property. And that's it's an excellent point. Again, we none of those conversations have happened yet. And honestly, if the gate was down near where the the 90° jog was Yeah. then if someone pulled off the road and realized it's Christmas closed, they could turn around, drive out. I I I you know, it's an excellent question. We just haven't discussed Probably should show that next time you come, at least have that on the plan next to the to the location and show a Knox box on it at the same. Yeah, you'd probably want a Knox box on that gate, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. So, why don't you guys You go fast enough, Tom. You'll go right through that gate. I can assure you. Oh, yeah. If the building is on fire, go right ahead, sir. Yeah. But you don't want to damage your fire truck either. Slow. In all the years we've been there, we had one tractor stole when it was about 15 or 20 years ago. And the cameras and stuff we had l literally just showed the person driving up to the gate, put the bucket up, went to the gate, the gate never slowed down, and he went across Route 17, went on the way. It's like, well, that was a great security system. Well, I suppose they got changed. They can always hook onto that gate and back up. Yeah. So anyway, we digress, but So, when are you planning on doing this? What's that? When are you planning on having this done? When do you plan on doing it? Assuming things go well with you folks, assuming things go well with the the uh the permitting, we'd like to break ground um in September. Um if we can do that, then we would have the foundation in the ground before frost. These gentlemen can build the building as winter goes on with the intention of next spring, summer opening. So, what do you do with your current inventory? What's that? What are you going to do

with your current inventory? You got a much bigger place now, right? Assuming you have a lot of inventory. Sure. How you going to get it here? You're going to have a smaller place. Where you going to put it all? You're explaining selling it all before we move it or you not going to move it at all or you going to have it sold? I I don't know. This is second location. Second location. All right. You're not closing the location. That's none of our concern. Okay. I I didn't understand. I understood. Understood. I thought you were moving it to God willing, I'll have more commit. We'd like to laugh. I'd like stuff to sell or rent. Any other questions from the board? I public hearing. I just wondering if the minister is Thank you for having I assume you're here for Yeah. for this blessing of the track. Why don't you come to the podium and introduce yourself and so I'm Jonathan Bogle. place or Prince of Peace Lutheran Church. Uh we are right there on that corner. Um and uh so um I am familiar with Union Farm's reputation and uh glad to have them as neighbors. We at one point we had hoped that the church could get the property but um apparently God had other plans and trust in that. But uh do do know their reputation and appreciate the fact that uh so right next to uh our property line is a fairly new uh playground. They have already uh been preparing a a buffer zone between uh the two properties which I appreciate very much. And so just wanted to say um we are in support of this at Prince of Peace and uh glad to have them as neighbors. Thank you. Sound sound It's always good to have good neighbors.

Is there anyone else who like to address the board or the applicant on on this project? Oh, he's back. Back again. Yeah. Um if I don't have it written down, thank you for your care. Um this is actually my first experience here. I've been here about five years now and my first interaction with the board. I really appreciate the care that you uh take on our behalf and you're right um was coming out of the Prince of Peace or St. Andrew parking lot this evening and very aware of the traffic uh there on route one and the uh the changing um speed limit there. So um thank you for your work. Thank you. You're welcome. If there's no one else, I'll close the public hearing of the board. Ready to go. Certainly. Move to uh approve the preliminary plan review of a major use site development titled Union Farm Equipment for applicant/owner Union Farm Equipment. Second. All in favor? gentlemen. Thank you. Go with God as it were. Way to go, Rick. Very good. Well, I just I just want to show I actually knew about hire there. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Appreciate it. Worst ever. Mhm. Got some questions. [Music] Question. Okay. Okay.

Okay. So, item number three, final plan review of a minor subdivision entitled Spring Lots for applicant Tom Benson and owner of the Anchorage Irevocable Trust. The proposal is to divide the 14.5 acres into three lots. The subject property is approximately 14.5 acres located on Bayside Road Tax Path 1, lot 4 located in the rural limited residential shoreland zoning district. Someone here representing the Tom Benson. Uh about the only thing that's changed since the last visit is I have all the submitts from the state historic uh forestry and inland fisheries. There was no problems there. We straightened out the rightway issue with the ray makers. They've worked with their attorney and the uh our attorney and those deeds have been recorded. the two easement deeds, one to the Ray Makers and one from the Ray Makers. So, I believe they're they're content. Um, I've set the pins, the lines have been flagged, and I feel my plan is done. So, the wetlands are done, the soils are done. You should have those reports. And I had a few extra things for you today. The state submittals, the deeds, they've put some covenants on these lots. Lot one will have be restricted to one residence. Lot two and three will be restricted to two residences. And they have some setbacks from the property lines. 25 ft from the side and

50 ft from the center of Bayside that they're uh putting on these lots. Uh no no farm animals. My uh my copy is so small I can't read. Yeah, I can't read it either. But you should have in your what I gave you today is uh exhibit A one, two, and three. and Oh, okay. That's it. Um, no livestock, no further subdivision allowed. If there's a minor lot adjustment, they permit that. They don't want any mobile or manufactured homes. They have they want to the residences to be at least 1500 square feet uh with a garage and accessory buildings. No tiny homes. Well, you got it. Right. Uh, no business or commercial activity. I have a question about the manufactured homes. Um, what I understand by a manufactured home might be something that is unknown caller. an unknown caller is you can have some pretty high quality manufactured homes. Is that is there a distinction being made here? This was given to me by uh the WH Mr. Wolf and Mr. Bennett and I discussed a little bit about manufactured homes that exact point. Yeah. And they wanted to stick with that. Okay. Al along those Can we ask questions now? Along those lines. Um, and I'm not arguing with the right of the property

owners to do covenants that are legal and whatever. Okay, that's that's their business. I do wonder whether or not we should have, you know, the covenants and so forth restrictions actually listed on the drawings plans. They are that that I know they are. My question is should they be there the covenants themselves now the right the rights of way and stuff like that I mean I get right and all that but it seems to me that if we sign off on this that we are basically supporting the idea that you know tiny homes for example uh would would not be allowed in in this area and if they want to deal with that with their own covenants and so forth between owners that's one thing, but for the planning board to approve that seems to me to be something else. I don't know whether we can do that or not. Can we someone it's common for a developer to do to have restrictive covenants. Uh we've done it before. No, no. Well, they they can have the restrictive covenants on their own property and on their own deeds and so forth that go back and forth. Yeah, but they go on the site plan. The restrictive covenants go on the site plan as well. I've done it before. Okay. Well, it's it seems to be something ought to be changed. It makes it hard if it's not on the plan. They become disconnected. Someone buys this, they look at the plan because it will be in their deeds as well. These laws sell those same covenants will be right. No, no. And what I was say suggesting is and that would be the appropriate place for them to be in the deeds as opposed to on here. But if if this is common practice, then it's also I think easier for code enforcement to enforce with it being on a signed set of plans. Okay. And one thing that they would still be able to do like an accessory dwelling like a mother-in-law suites with the common.

Right. Right. They would th those there's a state statute that those are exempt from restrictions like that. You can still do one of those. Right. Regardless of what the regardless what the covenant says. So they that is a it wouldn't be a tiny home necessarily, but they could do like a mother home. They could even do a bigger home. Well, it's it's the ADUs, accessory dwelling units are capped at 750 square f feet. Okay. And that's it's based on half of the home size. So, this says that they're at least 1500 square feet. So, it could be a 750 square foot ADU. ADU that would still be allowed under state statute even with this even with this restricted government covenant. So, the Sorry, go ahead. No, that's I was done. I was just going to ask the minimum square footage then is is for the homes 1500 square feet. Did I hear that's what I saw in the in the That's what I thought. Yeah, it's they want at least 1500 square foot homes on these parcels. They also have it they can't even they're they're restricting they can't even have a temporary like trailer or mobile during construction even. They're just none. That's what they they're pretty restrictive. So it's their choice I suppose. Yeah. Uh On lot number two, you you said there may be two residences on each lot on two and three. Two and three, right? I know on on lot three there's been four test bits done. It looks like on lot two there's just two test bits done. Looks like quite close together. Would there need to be other test bits done if you're going to have two houses? Uh, not I mean if I can't imagine they would need to if if unless they were going to really spread the houses out. I mean it would depend on where they want to put the houses. You probably had to dig a test pit near the house anyway. Like if if you were going to move it, if you were going to

move it somewhere that where the test pits weren't, if you were if the site surveyor was was that concerned, they dig their own test pits when they went to to dig a to design a septic system septic system. Anyway, I get that. So I mean I mean somebody can put the septic system other than where seven and eight is. Correct. They they would just dig their own when the this is just showing that the that that there is land there that's suitable. Yeah. when when they go to dig their own land or put their own septic in, whoever designs the system for them would probably dig their own test pits unless it was right on top of seven and eight and it was already deemed appropriate or whatever. Do do they have to show the test pit stuff as a you know as a condition of being accepted? Wait, it it shows that all it shows is that these lots are suitable. Yeah. Household. But in terms of of what we're approving in terms of a subdivision, does it have to flip it. Who cares? I'm I'm honestly not sure if it has to be on the plans. I've never I' I've never noticed it on the plans before, but because you can buy land that doesn't have any test pits. I know. I know. I I know I know when my dad did his 20ome years ago that he didn't do a test pit on every on every parcel that he split, but there were some done. But, you know, it's buyer beware at some level, right? Yeah. Okay. Anyway, but it's they're there. They're there. Yeah. I think the the test pit at this level is to show that each lot has a suitable test pit area and when you go to build you will site your house most likely you got to have a system design threebedroom fourbedroom so at that time they'd come out they'd look at the house they say okay gravity I mean I understand all that I understand the purpose of having a test bed just I wasn't sure that they had to be on the maps at this time maybe a marketing thing, you know, it

just shows good good faith that this suitable soil to build and there you go. Well, I think we have to have each law has to have a suitable test pit. Why? It's the ordinance. Is that right? It has to have soil has to be suitable for building when you do splits. You don't want to build on sand. No, but you could you could actually do an engineered fill. True. Sand actually wouldn't be a bad thing to have for your for your septic. You build them in sand. So true. So I have a question. Um can I ask if the rain makers are happy with this? Is that okay? Were you going to do that? Yes. Go for it. Go for it. Any other questions of Tom? I I just I I wanted to know. So you said and it sort of reads in in this. I just want to make it clear. So lot two has a right of way 30 foot wide that's accessible through adjoining property and lot and lot one. So lot two has a right of way for them. Everybody can get they can get on their land. They can access lot one. Lot one can access through their land. Lot two can access through this joint right of way. Everybody's happy with that which that's what we wanted. Make sure every lot has a way to get in and out. And we'll hear that the rain makers are happy or not happy. Um, what about the question that I had about um any kind of um agreement as to who's responsible for the road maintenance of this shared right-of-way parcel that runs between three different properties? Did you discuss that at all? I did not. That usually is something that gets discussed as lot owners take ownership. Usually somebody kind of takes command of the road, the president of the road or it's included in the covenants that there shall be a coordinated effort so that one person doesn't end up bearing the brunt of it. I just I could, you

know, I could see future like problems because you're passing through their land, the the existing adjoining property and you're creating two other lots and they all got to be in some sort of an agreement and there's nothing there's there's nothing to sort of say how that's going to happen. So, you could have conflict. That could be part of the deed. We could put another number. Well, that was one of the things we talked about last time. So I just thought it might be well I I got so caught up in we had a pretty short time frame straight help for right away. Yeah. I would just hate to see it become an issue later and then you have arguing neighbors that all share the same road. Mhm. We could make that part of the covenants of law two which it really only applies to um that there shall be a road association. You really can't force the I guess it's Barner that lives down on the shore. You can't really force them to be part of the No, because they're accessing from a different road. But I guess if the Ray makers and lot number two wanted to form some sort of language that Well, lot one would also be sharing that right away. Uh lot one or they could come off the main road. Yeah, I think we're saying if you look at the site, I just my opinion coming out that road um I would want to have a road further to the south, my driveway. It's a quick hill there. Okay. I I thought you had mentioned at one point last month that lot one would access it from base hydro, not that current. Yeah, I guess that's what he's saying. That's what they're going to do. And the rightway is specific to lot two. Okay. All right. So, it's just the agreement between the two of them. Yeah. Y but we can add a suggestion

to the covenants in the deed about a road association. And if the ray makers are agreeable to that, I mean, a road association is is a is a task and for two homeowners that makes it very difficult. It just maybe even just a shared maintenance or you know understand shared maintenance and it would be nice if perhaps the other person maybe they'd all like it if there was some sort of thing for snow plowing and all set up. I think a lot of that depends on whether or not how quickly the lots sell because it's very easily in my imagination you could see one or two people one or two homes on the property for I hope not for your sake but for several years you know uh I did have one question and it's probably going to display my ignorance which is not hard to do um and it has to do with the word critical on lot three says potential potential 250 ft critical terrestrial habitat. I'm not sure where you Oh, I see. I'm just wondering what that is. There's a potential vernal pool. That's magenta. Okay. No, not if I'm looking at rightly. It's It's Well, no. I'm backing into it. So, the vernal there's a potential vernal pool. Yes. Okay. And they have a 250 foot buffer around the vernal pool. I see. See it says Oh, I see. See the the wetland underneath it says SV25VJL1. And if you look over at the magenta, that is what that's classified as. It's a possible vernal pool. When they did their wetlands, it was outside the specific time frame to say, "Okay, this is a vernal pool. You do." And so the

the protection then is this uh protection but you can build within it but it's a little more restrictive. Okay. You if it is in fact a vernal pool it's a little it's not that you it's a not do not touch area. It is a kind of restrictive. You work with the work with the EP with it. Any other questions? Open up public hear. Mrs. Ray Maker, do you have anything to do I have to go to that podium again? Yes, please. My boots. Not quite so much this night. It's worth the trip. Yeah. I just wanted to say that yes, I think things have been very well resolved between all the parties. I mean, for 47 years, both parties thought we had these easements and then we discovered both sides that we didn't. So, I I'm very grateful that now we have made it legal and we don't have anything to worry about anymore. And um I thank everybody for their quick action and also the board. I think you were very supportive um at the initial meeting um giving at least me you know the courage to pursue this further and also some of your comments about restrictive covenants and things like that were new to me and turned out to be very like a gift um that that our neighbors care about that. So, um, yes, we we are content and thank thanks to everyone and to Tom, too. Thank you. That's good. Hi. Hi. I'm Elizabeth Tucker. I'm on Raymond Way. What was her name again, please? Elizabeth Tucker. Elizabeth. Okay.

And uh Raymond Way. So, seasonal cabin down at the end of the U camp road. Uh, and I'm just curious, my understanding is that the there are three lots on the shore side. Is that correct? So, conceivably five houses could be built there. Is that correct? There's two lots that have shore frontage. Okay. So, there are two on the shore side. I I just don't understand the the setup. Uh there's two two lots on the shore. Okay. And there's one road lot. Okay. So then, but you said one of the lots could have two houses. So lot two and three is has a covenant of restricting it to two houses. So residents. So conceivably five houses could be built there. Correct. So I'm listening to you talk about traffic and as you had said, Mr. Benson, that there's a quick hill there. Now you're looking at a lot of traffic. You've got five homes there that are going to be there and that's a quick hill. Um, you know, you were very concerned about traffic with the other the first number two, but now it's I mean, Bayside Road is scary enough as it is. It's a lot of houses, a lot lot more cars and in the neighborhood. So, I just wanted to bring that up. It's a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? And I'll close the public hearing. Do you want to make whatever? Do we want to make whatever what you said before? Oh, about the road maintion of approval. No. No. Okay. With only two homeowners, if it was going to be the three, I think I'd stick to it more. But with the two, hopefully things will work out. Works right. So, yeah. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it certainly sounds like the Ray

Makers and Mr. Benson have gone over everything and they're happy with the way it proceeded and yeah, I suspect they'll have good arrangement in the future to make sure everything gets all set up. And I imagine anybody's going to be able to to purchase that lot and build a home of that size and to meet all these criteria is going to be somebody who cares about their community. Yeah. And their neighbor. So hopefully I'm satisfied. Okay. Likewise. Motion to approve the final plan of a minor subdivision titled Spring Lots for applicant Tom Benson and owner of the Anchorage Ireocal Trust. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? [Music] All set. Done. Thank you. Thank you. Good work on that. Excellent. A nice color coding using magenta magenta especially trying to get get it all done as fast as you did. We also have the plans ready to do tonight. Oh y more work already. [Music] Well, first of all, do we do we have a new elderly American reporter in the back? Yes. Okay. Well, I got that. We have an assistant code office. Oh, that's the assistant code office. We'll we'll get there. Okay, your turn. You You're going to have to come up here eventually, buddy. On the wall right now. Should I have comments? Thank you, John. Do you sign tonight? Oh, yeah. Y if you want to stick around. I don't think this will take very long. You want to stick around? We'll get I had a long speech planned.

I do have to deny right for it. I don't know where to start. Um it's nothing much. So, just a heads up, the ordinance review um bid was uh completed. We have a contract in the works. So that will be coming up on the docket in the next few months for the ordinance review. Um can you say who that's with it was awarded Musen group. So we will be what Musen group means we're dealing with Madigan. We we may know the person we're working with. He might have a great rumor has it. Yeah. Yeah. He he he is familiar with the ordinance. Mhm. So, that should be a good project. So, if you have a a list of issues that you would like to see addressed or suggestions, please send that my way and I'll keep you updated as I know more. Will there be any kind of workshops or anything? I believe along with that or yes, I hope so. Maybe so. There sure certainly will be. We haven't had a chance to discuss it much so I will keep you guys informed. We are getting coffee with him tomorrow morning though. So it might come up. I don't know. You're doing what? Get getting coffee with with Matthew tomorrow morning. So it may come up. It may not. With the Musing Group with with Yes. With with their representative. Make sure he pays. He's got he he's the rich guy now. He's got all that private sector money. [Music] Yeah. uh oaths for the new planning board and reappoints. You should have them at your seat. If you could sign those and give those back to me, that would be fantastic. I have a question about that. Maybe part

of it it's become of because of the current political climate. Um is this a standard thing that uh these oaths and have they been around for a while? Because I'm not sure about pledging of allegiance to certain individuals in this country right now. That's you can bummer. make some adjustments on the on the wordage, but it's a standard that's released every year. Has I don't think the wordage has changed, okay, in the last forever. So, it's just basic. It was new to me, so I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't something else. So, great. Okay. It's probably been the same since the Clinton administration. The Clinton administration was the last time it was changed, I'm guessing. So, or FDR maybe. Well, there wasn't planning board. Sure there was. Um, and then I'm sure you're wondering, update on the city planner. Uh, the applicant we um offered the position to decline the offer. Um, so we're exploring options at this point and I'll have more updates for you next month. Uh, where does the housing committee stand? that seems to happen. Yes, the housing committee is going to be a good resource for the short-term rental ordinance when that gets more attention. Um, but I'll let Robert give you an update on that. I mean, is the housing committee still finished their job? I mean, it seems like it just came to its start. Yeah. So, the housing task force was originally created to help out with that housing study, but we still want to use everyone on that team's expertise to help out with different issues as they arise. And there are some, you know, uh, implementation strategies that came from the housing study that'd be great to work on, but we need to figure out what we want to focus on as a group, if there's anything that we can tackle that

would be beneficial. Um, so I'm kind of waiting for Twilight to settle in a little bit before bringing her in as well as um, you know, uh, I definitely want them to help out with the short-term rental ordinance and that sort of thing and kind of regroup and utilize them as best we can. So, yes, it's very unorganized, but we'll get there. sta staff time and and and the the ability to tackle all these things has been limited lately. We're under we're underst staffed across the board, unfortunately. Although I'm I'm now this week back to full strength. Yes. I will turn it over to you. All right. Um I guess first thing, Andrew, come on up. Come stand at the podium. Say hi. Say hi to the podium. Say yeah. Say hi to the podium, not the if you can make it. That's the first test. Oh, sit there. All right. Yeah, sir. You can sit. That's fine. Introduce yourself. My name is Andrew Letterlo. Um I was the building commissioner in Bristol, Tennessee in Sullivan County. Um so I moved about 20our drive up here last Thursday, got in Friday, started on Monday. So looking forward to So you know all there is to know now, right? Learning. Learning for sure. You guys do a things a little bit differently. Um we ran planning commission I ran planning commission in Sullivan County and it's a breath of fresh air seeing your guys' questions. Um I think you guys do a good job at least tonight. Yeah, there's always next month. Uh thank you Andrew. Uh I do have a a date I believe we've picked for the next joint session for the adult use cannabis. Uh we had a pretty good meeting last month. Uh I invited OCP

uh we had stakeholders uh that were operated other uh medical marijuana and retail cannabis uh stores and we learned a lot from that meeting. Um and I believe we've picked the date of the 29th of July for our next meeting for the next for the second joint session. And at that meeting I hope we'll have a rough draft ordinance to to talk about at that meeting. Um, I'm gonna have a long hopefully long phone call with uh Rubman Winchell's uh cannabis ordinance specialist tomorrow. Cannabis ordinance? Weed guy. Yeah, he he he knows their he knows the weed laws. So, we're going to we're going to try to get If you have a draft ordinance, which I think is a swell idea, will it be out before the meeting? I'm going to try to get it out as soon as possible for Yeah. everybody to look at before I I don't want to hand it to you five minutes before the meeting starts if I can help it. Excellent. You know, but I'm I'm going to do the best I can on that. Understanding that we do have, you know, Fourth of July and summer vacations and but I'm going to try my best to get it to get it to you as quick as possible considering we're going to have our first talk about it tomorrow. It's, you know, got a few weeks to get it in, but I'm guessing they've got, you know, Oh, there's there's got to be a lot of boiler plate. I'm sure there's a lot of boilerplate and you know things we want to discuss in particular and I you know discussing things that have worked in other municipalities that we might want to borrow and there's a lot of discussion that goes on there. You said you're going to discuss with the lawyer tomorrow. Yes, I'm have a phone call at 11. I think one of the I'm sure you're on this but the selection process, you know, how we how they want to set that up. Uh because as one of the groups mentioned and I'm it's happened in other towns, you know, if you make it too difficult, you know, somebody's not going to like whether they don't get picked or not and going to end up getting sued and put a monkey right in the whole thing. Yeah. People will get latgious over this

because it's it's quite lucrative to get these. Yeah. And they will. Oh, I know they will. So, we're going to have to be careful about how we do it. And yes, I would suggest you don't call it a joint cannabis. It's entirely Don't put that in the paper. No, I the council is all over. It's the only place you can do it. So the I I said it accidentally the first time Sarah ever interviewed me about this and it's become a joke ever since. I called it a joint session in the paper press. Oh. So it's kind of become the running joke. Give us at least 48 hours. Would you get that to us? I'll try, you know, so we can look at it. Well, I'll I'll try to do better than Congress does and give you time to read it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and then it's shorter, too, right? Yes. Well, maybe uh the big beautiful can cannabis bill. Yeah. Right. Uh and the last thing is like she said that uh after this is done, I would like to start work on short-term rental regulation, at least not not regulation necessarily, but at least a registration process to figure out how many uh short-term rentals are being uh done in the city, where they are uh if the places are safe, you know, nice habitable places or I just want to roll back just Just a second. How many do we know how many medical marijuana places there are in the city at this point? The by ordinance there's one. However, we have two. We have two. Okay. So, Cure Leaf and the one on Yeah. Main Main Street Medical and Cure Leaf, they they both were here uh to talk at the at the listening session or the workshop we did. Okay. And they seemed to be they're both interested in converting to recreational. It certainly sounded like it. Yeah.

I mean, what I think one of them alluded to the idea that seeing as they're in existence that maybe it makes sense just to give them a license and which is probably not not how it's going to go. Um, but I I can't say that for sure. But that's that that's more on the discussion you will have with the with the city council than anything I'm going to have any say I'm going to have on that matter. Okay. So, sounds good. Yeah. Fire guy, what do you have? Nothing. Can't see. Just hanging around. Just just hanging out. Just getting a little boutique there. Yeah. Oh, I've been on that for anything else, Britney. I think that's it. You have any questions or concerns? I heard anything from our 150 unit subdivision people. They are interested in coming back for um dividing up the lots into separate deed lots. Um they had a question about um you know timelines and stuff, but I haven't heard anything recent. I think they're looking to come for the August planning board if they can get everything done. Okay. And I think we discussed this and and you may have even asked the lawyer which I don't think he gave us a good answer. I mean I think we need some advice on how we proceed from that and not well what do you want to do? So maybe I'll circle back around. Yeah. because I yeah I think I had a solid answer after that but you don't get I mean that the one that we approved up by the bowling alley was was one lot now they want to do it in pieces so they want to come back and not have just one big lot but I think they were seven lots yeah roughly seven so I mean we're just kind of reaching

out to the lawyer to say okay how do we proceed on this definitely be um a revision to the approved site plan And then from there it's kind of okay. We'll verify make sure. Do we know the uh guy at the with the development at the end of the at Bill Street had some sort of kind of open house or whatever to talk to potential new owners. Is that correct? Oh. Yeah. I I hadn't heard of that. I know I know that. Yeah. I think it was at the Moore Center. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't see it in the paper. You guys knew anything? I I was not made aware. How was there like two guys in a 10 or what? No idea. Yeah. No, I didn't see an advertise do that. I would have been curious. Yeah, because they they have to put the back in. They got have to get a certain number of people to buy the units. At least put a deposit. They they may not be happy with us. I don't know. [Music] I hope they get enough buyers. Yeah. I I hope they can put the road in. We done move to adjourn. How's that? Second. Third. All in favor? Okay, we're done. Justice.