Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'm going to go ahead and call to order the meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission of Monday, July 6, 2026. Will staff please call the roll?

Commissioner Avuali? Present. Commissioner Bosque? Present. Commissioner Gossack? Present. Commissioner Jones?

Here.

Commissioner Olsen?

Here.

Commissioner Rubel?

Here.

And chairman will be here.

All right. Uh, next on the agenda is the approval of minutes from the June 1st, 2026 meeting. Can I have a motion to approve the minutes?

Move to approve.

Second.

Can staff please call the roll?

Commissioner of Wally.

Yes.

Commissioner Olson. Yes. Commissioner Bosque. Yes. Commissioner Gaska. Yes. Commissioner Jones.

Yes.

Commissioner Rubel? Yes. And Chair Wildermuth?

Yes.

The minutes are approved, seven to zero.

All right, thank you. Well, good evening, everyone. Welcome to the July 6th, 2026 meeting of the Elgin Planning and Zoning Commission. Tonight, we're going to hear petitions 14-26, 09-26, 10-26, and 11-26. Before we move on to the agenda, I want to briefly discuss the role of the commission and the procedures for tonight's meeting. So as a reminder, the Planning and Zoning Commission is primarily an advisory and recommending body to city council. The job of this commission is to review development approval proposals and determine whether a proposal meets the applicable standard of review. So tonight, how it's going to go is that we'll first hear from city staff on each petition, and then the commission will ask questions of the staff. And then we're going to invite the applicant to come forward, provide a brief overview of the proposal, and then the commission will ask questions if they have any of the applicant. And then after that, we will open the public hearing portion and we invite any members of the public to provide their comments. And we ask that the public direct their comments to the commission. And then we'll be taking notes and collecting any themes. And after that, we'll be able to have either the applicant or the staff address any of the questions concerned raised by the public. And for those that are wishing to testify tonight, please come forward, state your name and spell it and provide your address. And then in the interest of time, we ask that those testifying do not reiterate points that have already been made. And then after all of those portions, the commission will deliberate, vote, and then pass its recommendation on to city council. So this time we'll move ahead with the agenda. And for those of you that do wish to speak tonight, you should now stand and take the oath from the court reporter. So anyone that thinks they might speak tonight, go ahead and take the oath now.

You raise your hands, please. Do solemnly swear or affirm the testimony about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you.

All right. Our first petition to be considered is petition 14-26 and look to staff to provide us with an overview of the petition.

Thank you, Chairman Wildermuth. Good evening, everyone. And for the record, we have provided the required notices on the first petition before you tonight, which is the application by Casa de Estilos as applicants and Maria Zamudio as property owner. We're requesting a variation from section 19.45.070, required number of parking spaces. Pursuant to section 19.45250 authorized variations to permit the establishment of a bar, a drinking place with video gaming terminals within the existing beauty salon or barbershop without the construction of additional parking spaces at the property commonly known as 301 Dundee Avenue. So we will start as usual with the general location of the subject property. As you can see, the subject property outlined in yellow is at the northeast corner of Dundee Avenue and Franklin Boulevard. It's about an 11,000 square foot property that is As you can see, it's got a red shade over it, so that's zoned AB area business district. And as you can see, the properties to the north, east, and west of this property also have the same shade. To the north is a car wash. To the east is a vacant lot with some additional single-family homes to the east of that. To the west across Dundee Avenue are a couple, what used to be single family residences, but which have been converted to duplexes, which are rental units. And then to the south is a property that is owned PCF, planned community facility district, which is the former campus of the Elgin Academy, which is now the Burhan Academy, a private K-12 school. And here's the bird's eye view of the subject property. This property is improved with a 4,700 square foot commercial building. It's a one-story building. It also has a surface parking lot in the back that includes 14 parking spaces with direct access off of Franklin Boulevard. The building is home to the beauty salon or barber shop known as Casa de Estilos. They've been there since 1988. So the applicant is requesting a variation from the parking requirement to establish a drinking place or a bar within the building. The applicant is proposing to convert about 1,000 square feet in the back of the building to a bar that would also have six video gaming machines. They're also known as BGTs, video gaming terminals. Those video gaming terminals are only allowed as an accessory used to a drinking establishment, and so they can occupy only up to 10% of the floor area, and that is the case in this proposal. The proposed drinking establishment would have its own entrance. Let's see if I can turn this on. So on the left side of your screen is Dundee Avenue. That rear parking lot is in the back here, and this is the proposed construction of the bar that would take up the rear part of the building. So the establishment would have its own entrance from the south, but it would also obviously be connected to the beauty salon. Because this is a separate sort of business, it's got its own separate parking requirement. The drinking place at about 1,000 square feet is required to provide one parking space per 60 square feet of floor area. That equals to 18 parking spaces for the proposed bar. And then the existing hair salon is required to have 14 parking spaces based on the number of chairs and employees. So the applicant has submitted a pretty extensive data of parking counts that were conducted at three similar bars that also have each six video gaming terminals. Those three establishments Or the counts were that the parking counts were provided for were the AJ slots in Carpentersville, Cafe Parley in Pingree Grove, and then Cafe Parley in Hoffman Estates.

And I believe the operator of this drinking establishment also operates those three facilities.

They've done 60 parking counts, and of those 60 parking counts, they've found that only one time, only once, the parking demand of one of those was six parking spaces. More than 80% of the time that they were counted, the parking demand for those establishments were only three parking spaces. And most importantly, 45% of the time, there were no customers within those establishments. So the applicant is trying to demonstrate that the true parking demand for something like this is far less than the required parking by the zoning ordinance. So instead of 18, the true demand is probably around six parking spaces. And so when those six are added to the 12 for the hair salon, that leads to an 18 parking spaces actual parking demand for this proposal. As I mentioned, the on-site parking lot has 14 parking spaces, best seen here in this bird's eye view. And then the demand for additional parking can be provided then with the on-street parking that's available on Franklin Boulevard. From this point on east, there's on-street parking available on the north side of Franklin Boulevard. About nine cars can park on the north side of Franklin Boulevard. Of that, four parking spaces are directly adjacent to this property. It's worth noting that the school obviously has its own parking lot and these two residences also have their off-street parking spaces. So these on-street parking spaces really are seldom used and they really don't serve anybody but some of the customers for the existing hair salon. So with the nine on-street parking spaces and 14 on-site, that's a total of 23 that can easily accommodate the parking demand by the existing hair salon and the proposed bar. Still, the applicant has agreed to a couple concessions. They have agreed to keep the bar open only during the times that the hair salon is open. This really is a proposal to be accessory to the hair salon, and it's really for the customers of the hair salon. So they have agreed to just keep the hours of operation the same, which is seven days a week from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. They also agreed that they would not have any separate signage for the bar, so that would also add to the no additional customers that would come to that facility, only essentially the customers of the hair salon that would frequent that place. And here's a couple of shots of the Franklin Boulevard, but really no on-street parking looking east and west. Here's the summary of that parking variation request. Per code, 30 parking spaces are required, but on-site parking lot has only 14 parking spaces. The application for zoning variation has to satisfy the standards for variations. There are nine of them, and we believe that all applicable standards are satisfied, and therefore staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in the packet. I think there's only two, again, worth mentioning. That's the The limitation to the hours of operation, that they have to match the beauty salon and the fact that the drinking place, the bar, would not have its own signage. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions. The applicant's team is here as well and can address the commission.

All right. Thank you. I'm going to start on my right with Commissioner Gostka. Any questions for staff?

no questions commissioner olson um do you know if franken boulevard is that a two-way street or one-way street right there it's a two-way street okay thank you no other questions uh mr i um if they do decide to open during different hours do they come back in front of us they do they would have to if this is approved then they would have to come back and amend that zoning variation approval that has that condition

And this is liquor for sale, so they have to get a liquor license?

Well, this is a normal bar, so they will have to get a liquor license separately. The zoning request for the parking variation stays with the Planning and Zoning Commission. The Planning and Zoning is the final determining body for the variation, and a drinking place is a by-right permitted use in this zoning district. In this case, this location just requires a parking variance. Separately, if that is approved, separately they have to get a liquor license that goes to Liquor Commission and then the City Council.

okay and um is it the same owners of the salon as as the bar i believe would be a different operator okay all right and i'm sorry one last question um the rule is 10 for the gaming so that's like a hundred square feet did we look at that and we did yes it's a hundred square feet for six machines correct okay that's all i have commissioner jones

yet why are why the restriction on signage to further minimize the potential that general persons who are not affiliated with the with the hair salon would frequent the space which would result in parking demand that they're demonstrating that we believe is accurate More signage, perhaps more publicity, more customers means more parking, and then the sort of analysis may look different.

I guess I kind of struggle with that. I was in a location not around here, but it did have a full bar. It was a salon and spa with a full bar. The newspaper article was framed on the wall about what a great concept they had come up with. They were using that to market their business and grow their business. And I just hate to see us restrict something like that. If it's a growth potential, they were marketing to weddings, they were marketing, I know they're saying they don't want to grow their business in relationship to this, but I just hate to restrict that growth as well. And same with the hours of operation. Is the liquor license tied to hours of operation?

The service of liquor is not tied to the hours of operation of a beauty salon or the establishment, but they only regulate when you consider alcohol.

Okay. Yeah, so I just don't really like the restriction there. And then there's no issue with the proximity to the school being right across the street with the gaming machines and liquor that's not in it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Cool.

Commissioner Busque? Okay.

Making it a bar and having the ability to gamble, does that not include access to the public? Or can they restrict access to the public?

Well, it will be open to public. There is no question about that. As I mentioned, as you can see right here, there's a main door that goes on the side of the building directly to Franklin Boulevard. You can think of it as a separate tenant space, but they're kind of connected. Because they don't have enough parking to meet the parking demand, Typically, when it comes to a zoning variation, one of the standards is you kind of have to go above and beyond your normal standards. And so they've demonstrated that by saying we will stay open at the beauty salon because this is really an amenity for the customers. Their primary target is not just general public. They'll certainly not turn anybody away, but they're trying to demonstrate that this is primarily for the customers. Thank you. That's all I have.

Commissioner Bruble?

Okay, so I have a question on the signage. You said that there would be no exterior signs, but what about like a window?

That would be the same thing. It falls in the same category?

Correct. Okay. And then would it be a limited liquor license or full?

I believe the liquor, depending on which one they request, they will probably not be limited to specific types of alcohol. They'll probably be able to serve all beer, wine, and liquor.

Okay, thank you. You're welcome.

And so I have a couple questions. So in this, I think you've kind of answered this, but there's no external signage, but non-salon, it says that it would cater to salon patrons, but essentially non-salon patrons would be allowed to drink in the bar.

Absolutely.

And then the second question I have is around the um, extraordinary conditions. And so there's one section where they, where it says in the packet that there's a expect a reasonable return, but it's stated that, uh, The applicant is opening this as a bar to be competitive, but then there's not an expectation for greater economic return standard, which I find contradictory. So could you touch on that a little bit?

I'll try. So the way we've evaluated this is that it's obviously in a competitive landscape out there with hair salons and barbershops. They are of the opinion that by providing this amenity, it will enhance their service. It's not an unreasonable expectation to continue to grow your business. What would hopefully prevent this from this business going out of business. And so the return that they would generate from customers coming to this place because there's a bar, we didn't expect that that's driving this, that they want to have that many more customers. It's simply that it's an amenity that people that are coming there Now they have a reason to, while they're waiting, they have something else to do. We didn't feel that it was an extraordinary return that is otherwise not reasonable.

Thank you. You're welcome. We'll catch you on that. Go ahead. I was going to say no, but staff said I can let you, so go ahead.

Quick question. Does the liquor license... prohibit them from taking alcoholic beverages from this bar space into the salon space at all? I believe so, yes. Okay. Thank you. That's it.

Any other questions, to be fair? All right. With that, I will invite the applicant to come forward. And please state your name and spell it and then your address for the court reporter and provide us your thoughts, overview of the project.

My name is Oscar Zamudio, O-S-C-A-R-Z-A-M-U-D-I-O. And I'm resident of Lake in the Hills, originally born and raised in Elgin, 240 Wright Drive, Lake in the Hills, 60156. And I'm here on behalf of 301 Dundee Avenue. And to answer some of the questions in more depth, it won't be a full liquor license. It's only for beer and wine. So there will not be any pours or no shots. And it's to pretty much, as our clients come and there's amenities, primaries, salam. So it's just something to maintain them while they wait. They can have a drink and then drink. get their hair cut and then they go on their way because we do appointments. So we do have a quick turnaround. They're not going to be there hours watching a baseball game or it's not your regular tavern. And as far as the signage goes, we don't want to promote a bar or a nightclub or a, we don't want to get people the wrong idea that it's, Hey, everyone come in and let's flood this place. No, it's not necessarily that it's something. And not only that, it's a coffee, iced tea, um, iced coffee, so not everyone's going to get a beer or wine. So it's going to be almost like a cafe bar also. So there's going to be other beverages that we're going to be doing to the community, and there will be somebody inside the area always attending, 21 and older only. So no kids are allowed in there. And no one can bring out a drink to the hair salon. They had to enjoy their drink in there. So it's not visible from the street. It's not a bar. It's not going to be any music, I don't think. It's going to be a real calm environment. As they get a haircut in, you know, enjoy their day, and that's it. And that's it. So as far as the parking, it's for our existing customers. So we're not pushing, hey, let's blow this up and let's get 1,000 people in here. No, it's for the existing clientele we have now. It's just something else to say thank you because we've been there since 1988. So we want to, hey, you know, let's do something else for the community, our customers, and enjoy maybe a drink or a glass of wine or coffee, whatever they like. And then it's within the hour, so it won't be at night club or nothing like that. When the salon's closed, it is closed. And openness to your question about the public. Yes, if someone else wants to come and get a haircut, then they will be able to enjoy a drink. and get a haircut, and then, you know, so on. But because it is appointment, it won't be a flood because we try to, well, if you want a haircut at 3 o'clock, we say, hey, it's busy. We have a 4 o'clock available, so then we can accommodate his dad. So it wouldn't be an increase of people. And, yeah, I think that's pretty much as we are looking at it.

That's good. I'm going to start on my left with Commissioner Rubel. Any questions for the applicant? Yes.

Hi. Hi. Okay, so your hours of operation are 9 to 5. Yes. And then I read that you may stay open until 6.30.

That is in some situations to finish an extra haircut, or maybe we have some haircuts that do take longer.

So do you take walk-ins then?

We do not. We're appointment. Appointment only? Yes.

So how do you schedule your appointments? Would you take one all the way up until 5? How often are you open past your 5 p.m.?

Not very often. It's very rare, actually. Our last appointment we would take is 4.30 to finish up by 5. To finish by 5. Okay. Yes.

And how many chairs are there again? Four. Four? Four. OK. And then just to clarify, you are the owner?

Yes, my mom and dad own the building, and I'm the owner, and I'm in charge now as they are retiring.

And then who's going to own the bar?

Well, I will be there myself, yes.

Okay, because I thought he said it was somebody separate.

Well, meaning that my mom is the official owner of the building. It's family. It's all family business, so it's not any outsider. It's us. We've been there, and we know the customers, and they know us.

Right. Okay, so I looked at the capacity. So if you have six tables, four chairs per table, you have six terminals, that's an extra 30 people. If you went to capacity, you don't anticipate that?

No, because if it's the person that's getting a haircut, it's probably the person that's going to use the terminal. And then... It's not as, it seems, like a casino where you go and sit there for hours and gamble and gamble. It's like a quick, I'm going to put in five bucks. From our other locations, that's usually what it is. It's in and out. They're not really sitting there for an hour watching a game or nothing. So honestly, the tables at our other locations are never, ever used.

Okay. And then, so your parking studies. Yes. So I noticed that were those all, all those locations are owned?

Yes. Okay.

So I'm just curious, was there any way you could do any of those studies with facilities that are in Elgin? Because those, I mean, you have Hoffman Estates, I think you had Pingree Grove, and you had Carpenter'sville.

The reason my understanding is that I don't think Elgin allows, those are gaming parlors, strictly gaming parlors. And in Elgin, I don't think they're allowed a gaming parlor. They would have to be like that, like a bar or a restaurant So that's why we couldn't compare it to another one in Elgin because it's not a gaming parlor, it's a salon. It's our primary business.

Okay, and then these other facilities that you did the studies at are, I just want to be clear, were they salons with bars or are they just, what were those businesses again?

No, it was a gaming parlor. Those are parlors. The parking was that those, even those were three, four parking spots at peak where we have more parking available. But even there, it's still never, being a gaming parlor, strictly gaming parlor, we still didn't get like a ton of people. Okay. I see where you're going with that.

Okay. Okay. All right. No further questions. Thank you. Commissioner Bosque.

I think innovating for a business and keeping a business up and running as long as you guys have, you've been a staple in Elgin for a very long time. I've been in Elgin for 30 years. I've known Casa de Silos has been around way before I was even in Elgin. So, I mean, innovation for a business is necessary to stay afloat, especially in these times now. So, I like it. Thank you. Thank you.

Mr. Jones.

Yeah. So you guys are fine with no signage. It doesn't it's not part of the business plan.

Yes, that's yeah, that's also part of the plan. And we agree to it because we don't want to do like a beer sign or a slot sign like promote. Hey, bar. And then give the wrong impression that it's right.

i really like it i think it sets it apart you know in the area where i'm at we've got about 30 barbers and yes there's lots of pool tables big screen tvs i like it that it'll set you guys apart i hope it does well for your business thank you thank you commissioner wally do you have any other advertisements planned since you can't do signage are you guys planning to send out some things or do any kind of advertisements

Not at the moment, just strictly come in and whoever's there, we can offer, hey, you guys want a drink? You guys can have a drink while we wait. We're, you know, they're coming early, 10 minutes and enjoy a drink or that's it. It's pretty much for our clientele.

And you said that you own those other?

Yes.

The other ones that we did that? Yes. So those, that study, did it include employees or was it just the patrons? Yes, it includes employees.

There will be a person in there attending with a Bassett certified bartending license, but...

And in your new bar, it's just one person?

Yes, there will be one person in there.

Okay. And just to clarify, you said, is it four chairs in the salon and then six tables in the bar?

Yes.

Okay. All right. So it's 11,000 square foot building?

No, it's actually 4,000...

All right. 4,700. Okay. 4,700. I don't know where. I must have read that somewhere else. Okay. So of the 4,700, 1,000 of it is going to the bar.

Yes.

And 3,700 is in the salon.

Well, there is also a storage room.

Okay.

Which takes up, I want to say, another... 1,000 or something. Yes. Close to 1,000. Okay. Which is storage room.

Do you foresee... you being open past salon hours if this idea takes off?

No, because for one, we don't want to stay there and do hair after hours five o'clock. We like to do it working hours and doing the business so long for 30 years. We're just satisfied to do nine to five. We're done. We don't want to do overtime. So no.

Thank you.

And when we close that, we will, the whole building will be closed. Okay.

Commissioner Olson.

No questions.

Commissioner Gasco.

Think it was mentioned that this area would be restricted to 21 and older Chris. So would that restrict? Customers that aren't 21 from ordering the non-alcoholic drink like you said you would have iced coffee or coffee and

so we will not be able they will not be able to enter that area at all but if they did want to say ice coffee or a coke or a pepsi sprite we will be able to bring it to them or kids so which is a complimentary all the soda will be complimentary but they will not be able to enter inside because there is the video gaming terminals and then there's alcohol so but there would be a method to or yes it will be uh it's a partition a glass door or they cannot be able to enter. And somebody will be carding at all times. OK. It has 21 and only. Yes.

No further questions.

I got a couple of questions. So my first question is kind of in a similar line as Commissioner Rubel. so if would you expect i guess with the number of um stations and the number of parking would you expect any type of congregating of clients like so what let's just say a walk-in comes in at two and you have a three o'clock so you say you know why don't you stay and have a drink um or they you know you can have a drink while you wait for your three o'clock appointment Or what if a client is in and they decide to stay after their appointment because, hey, I've got a couple minutes to kill. I could have a drink before I go on to my next thing. Do you expect any type of congregating like that that would keep people at the business longer than anticipated?

No, it's strictly the hours that it's nine to five. And then we do have people that do make three, four appointments at the same time, family members, brothers. So they might stay, but it's the same people that might come for haircuts, all four. So it's not any new clientele because we do appointments. So we don't experience any, we're not going to overlap clients because we want everybody to get in and out on time.

Right. And then my second question is, what's the average age of your clients?

30 and up. Some high school kids come after high school, after high school hours, but it's mainly older gentlemen and ladies. It's older crowd after over 30. So there's like, I just want to add. I consider that younger crowd. I want to add it to I think you said as far as competition and other salons and barbershops, there's many barbershops in town now where they're trendy, maybe fancier. And a lot of the younger generation we've noticed go to those. So we have lost a lot of the younger generation because I guess we're kind of old school. We're not the young hip guys in town anymore. So we don't have a lot of the young crowd, unfortunately. They are welcome, but we got a lot of parents that say, hey, my son didn't want to come because he wanted to go to his guy over there or whatever. So it's mainly older people, parents.

Sounds good. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. We're now going to open up the portion of the hearing to the public. So you can have a seat. We'll take public comment. And then if there's anything to be addressed, we'll call on you.

Thank you for your time, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. All right.

I'm now going to open up this portion of the petition to the public. So if there's any public that wishes to speak... Well, now you have to say something. All right. Seeing no public comments, I will close the public comment portion and look to city staff for any final comments.

I don't think we have anything else to add unless there's other questions. Staff recommends approval subject to the condition of the package.

I will accept a motion for petition 14-26.

I move to recommend the City Council approve petition 14-26 subject to the terms and conditions outlined within the staff report and to adopt as the findings of the commission the documents and conditions provided with such staff report. Is there a second?

point out that your decision here is final. It's not a recommendation. Motion to approve.

Staff, please call the roll. Commissioner Jones?

Yes.

Commissioner Bosque?

Yes.

Commissioner Abuali?

No.

Commissioner Gaska? Yes. Commissioner Olson? No. Commissioner Rubel? No. No. And Chairman Wildermuth.

No, and I'd like to, I think I'd like to explain my vote. And it's, I really, I appreciate the innovation and support the innovation. I would personally love to have a beer with a haircut. I just, with the location and I just, in looking at the different standards, I don't feel that it's in alignment with the surrounding land use zoning, with the comprehensive plan in the zoning district. So with that, I'm going to vote no on this.

Thank you. So the motion fails with three in favor and four against.

All right. With that, we will... MOVE ON TO THE APPLICANTS CONTINUE WORKING WITH CITY STAFF. AS I SAID BEFORE, REALLY APPRECIATE THE INNOVATION ON THIS PROJECT. SO CONTINUE WORKING WITH STAFF AND WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA AND LOOK TO STAFF TO PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW.

All right, so the second petition before you 0926 again, we have provided the required notice on this one as well. This second application is the application by Catherine Fournier as applicant and Nicasio Ramirez as property owner who are requesting approval of a planned development as a conditional use with departures from the Elgin Municipal Code to establish a new buildable lot for the construction of a second single family home at the property commonly known as 1056 Logan Avenue. Again, we'll uh... start with the general location of the subject property this now is the personally 12,198 square foot property that is outlined in yellow at the southwest corner of Logan Avenue and Congdon Avenue. It is zone RC2, Residence Conservation District, and it is improved with a two-story single-family home that also has a one-car detached garage. The garage is just south of the home with the driveway to Logan Avenue. As you can see, all surrounding properties have the same yellow shade. That means they're all zoned the same, RC2, and they are all improved single-family homes. Here's a better view of the subject property. The garage is right here just south of the home with its own driveway facing Logan Avenue. So the applicant is requesting approval to split the property to create a second buildable lot that would be for construction of a second single family home. Here is the existing survey of the property on top. As I said, 12,198 square feet, existing home. existing detached garage and on the bottom is the proposed site plan that shows the new lot line that separates the now the east parcel and then the west parcel. The east parcel would contain the existing home and the garage that would be 6,699 square feet in area and then the west parcel for the proposed single-family home that would have 5,499 square feet in area. The west parcel does not meet the minimum lot area requirement, which is 6,000 square feet, and therefore the applicant is here requesting the zoning approval, all the planned development to allow for that. So here's, again, a couple photos. Top is the front of the existing home, and then the bottom one is the rear yard of the property. That would be the home for the new single-family home. That's the front elevation of the proposed home. Here is a proposed floor plan and the elevations of the new single-family home. It's a fairly small home. It's only one bedroom, one bath with 677 square feet in floor area. The home would have a one-car attached garage. It does not have a basement. It's again a one-story home. It's well designed and well articulated and it does include fiber cement siding on all sides. So how does this proposed home, or I should say parcel, compare to others in the area? So as you can see on the aerial, there seem to be quite a lot of smaller properties, but we focused only on this subject block and the one to the east. There are, as you can see, a total of seven existing lots, not including the proposal and the subject property. Of those seven existing properties, this table here shows what the minimum lot width is for the RC2 district, which is 48 feet, and the minimum lot area, which is 6,000 square feet. This shows that all of those seven lots, five of them do not meet the minimum lot dimension requirements. They're less than 6,000 square feet. And the smallest one, in fact, is this one that's 3,484. That's the lot six right here. So the proposed parcels are not out of character and are comparable to other existing lots in this neighborhood. Again, here are the requested departures. The top one regarding the 6,000 square foot minimum lot area, they're proposing $5,499. It's worth mentioning that the east parcel would satisfy the minimum lot area. The new lot line is drawn such that the So this lot line is drawn so that this existing home meets all required setbacks, including the 20-foot rear setback from this new lot line. As a result, this lot is less than 6,000 square feet and therefore doesn't meet that minimum lot area. The second departure is in regards to the front setback. The code in the RC2, the code requires a 20-foot front setback. or the average for the block, whichever is greater. In this case, the average is actually greater, so the required front setback is 23 feet. The applicant is requesting to build a home with a 20-foot setback simply to be able to have a little bit of a, or that much larger rear yard on a small property like this. The proposal is required to meet the standards for planned developments and the standards for conditional use. And with that, we believe that all standards are satisfied and staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in the packet. With that, I'm happy to answer any questions. Again, the applicant's team and the proposed purchaser of the properties here and her attorney, they can address the commission.

Thanks. I will start on my left with Commissioner Vrubel. Any questions for staff?

No questions.

Commissioner Bosque?

No questions.

Commissioner Jones?

Yeah. Demir, did I say these do not have separate pins right now, right?

The existing property does have two separate pins.

That's what I thought I read.

But the new lot will probably have its own pin because it's slightly smaller than the western pin that's there. The pin is tax parcel. It's unrelated to zoning or anything like that.

Yeah, I was just curious if it had two. And then under current zoning and regulations, could that second home be built on that property as is as a secondary dwelling property?

No, it's a single family zoning district, so only one dwelling is allowed per lot. That's why they're creating this as a separate parcel for a second home.

Right, I kind of knew that. Okay, so when you're looking at these other parcels, there was a couple going down the other block. Should they have had access and be laid? I mean, this was kind of a prime location to be on that corner lot, but there's lots of corner lots. in the area so technically you know technically speaking division and depends if you meet all those requirements and can have the um you know you can build this tiny little house on you know on a parcel as long as you're separating it out right well you're exactly right uh one can do a lot split legally without the city's involvement whatsoever but that second lot that is created

has to be buildable, meaning when somebody splits it off from the original one, well, whatever is left over for the home, the home has to continue to meet the zoning requirements. So in this case, that existing PIN was not such that it would allow for the existing home to meet all requirements, and that's why they had to redo it. But there could be instances where somebody can have a corner lot where they have enough of a lot area and they can draw a lot line so that they create a second lot that meets all minimum dimension requirements and they can build a second home there.

And for this new, what's the minimum maximum square footage of a home that could be placed there?

We don't have those requirements.

It just has to fit within the footprint.

I have to check. I believe there's a maximum building floor area and maximum building coverage on a lot, but not minimums.

Okay.

So you can go as little as you want, but if you want too much, we'll restrict you.

Well, the trend is these tiny little... things the tiny little homes that people want to build you don't need much land you know and if you could divide out parcels of property and and have them named with different pins then that opens up a lot of possibilities that sure does all right thank you very much you're welcome commissioner wally i may have missed this but did you say group of proper notice we have provided yes and did any of the neighbors no nothing all right thank you you're welcome commissioner olson no questions commissioner guska

No questions. I don't have any questions either. I will invite the applicant to come forward.

Good evening. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. My name is Scott Richmond, R-I-C-H-M-O-N-D, 2000 McDonald Road, South Elgin, 60177. I am pleased to be here with my client, Kathy Fournier, who is proposing to build the house that you see on the screen behind me on this lot. As Demir so aptly said, we need to go through this process because the underlying lot will be under 6,000 square feet. And then we were proposing a setback of 20 feet as opposed to 23. That's the reason we're here. Under the Illinois Platte Act, we can subdivide a property without going through the whole subdivision process because it's less than an acre and no new property. rights of way or easement. So we're in compliance with regard to that, but we're seeking, obviously, the approval to build this house on the lot. This will be Kathy's retirement home. It's a small home for herself with the one-car garage, and the house will be tastefully built. It'll fit in the neighborhood, and if there's any other questions, happy to answer them for you.

Sounds good. Thank you. I'm going to start on my right with Commissioner Gaska. No questions. Commissioner Olson.

Just out of curiosity, how long has she been living in the current home for?

She currently lives in Palatine. How long have you been there for?

Four years. Four years.

Okay, great. Thank you. Congratulations. Okay.

Yeah, I love the design. It fits in well with the neighborhood, so thank you.

Commissioner Wally.

think of how far logan is but this is not an association right no no there's no association okay uh commissioner jones no questions i they they've done something right down the street from this property is another one that they parceled out and built a darling little house right on the corner of that one too so it's moving forward in that neighborhood it looks like it's a good use of the property thank you thank you commissioner busquet no questions

Commissioner Fruble?

Hi. No questions, but I like this idea. I think it works well in this neighborhood. And yeah, I think it's going to be a good thing. Thank you.

Thank you. No questions for me. This is my old neighborhood as well, so I think it looks great. Thank you. Is there any public comment? All right. Seeing no public comment, I will close that portion of the hearing and look to staff for any final thoughts.

No final thoughts. We believe that the proposal meets the applicable standards for approval and staff recommends approval subject to the conditions of the packet.

Is there a motion from the commission?

I move to recommend that city council approve petition 09-26 subject to the conditions outlined within our packet and to adopt as the findings of the commission those findings also provided within our packet.

Is there a second? Second. Can staff please call the roll?

Commissioner Olson?

Yes.

Commissioner Rubel?

Yes.

Commissioner Abuali? Yes. Commissioner Bosque?

Yes.

Commissioner Gostka? Yes. Commissioner Jones? Yes. And Chairman Wildermuth? Yes. The motion is approved 7-0. All right.

Thanks so much for coming tonight. Appreciate it. Continue working with staff. We will now move on to petition 10 dash 26.

All right, moving right along the again, we have provided the required notices in this one as well. So this third petition is the application by Joma Musa as applicant and Maria T. Cervantes as property owner who are requesting approval of a conditional use to permit a packaged liquor sales establishment as part of an existing tobacco store at the property commonly known as 968 Dundee Avenue. And again, we'll start with the description of the property in question. So the subject property is a tenant space that is part of a property. approximately 8,600 square foot multi-tenant building that is on approximately 17,000 square foot property at the southwest corner of Cooper Avenue and Dundee Avenue. The property includes this multifamily building and two parking lots with a total of 18 parking spaces. The front parking lot facing that's on the east side of the building has eight parking spaces and then there's a rear parking lot with direct access to Cooper Avenue that has 10 parking spaces The building includes an existing restaurant, a jewelry store, a staffing agency, and the subject tenant space, Friday Tobacco, that is 1,281 square feet. The rear of the building in the back includes one tenant space, which is the Urban Wrap, which provides a motor vehicle accessory service for vehicles. There are two tenant spaces that are currently vacant, one right adjacent to the subject tobacco store, and then one additional one that has about 1,300 square feet. As you can see, the property to the north is zoned residential and includes a single-family home. To the west is another single-family home, but it's zoned AB, area of business, same as the subject property. To the south is another multi-tenant building, but this is a commercial building that includes a marketing office. And then to the east across Dundee is a one-story restaurant building. Here is a better view of the building in the front parking lot facing west. The subject tenant space, the tobacco store, is sort of in the middle of the building. So the applicant is proposing to expand into the adjacent tenant space and then add the sale of alcohol products to sort of make it into a packaged liquor sales establishment or a liquor store. They would sell packaged beer, wine, and liquor in addition to the tobacco and vaping products and other tobacco accessories. They're not proposing and it would not be allowed any kind of consumption of alcohol on the premises. The applicant is not proposing any interior or exterior improvements to the building or the site. These two tenant spaces known as 968A where the Friday Tobacco is and 968B were previously occupied by a tobacco store. So they're kind of connected and so the expansion does not require any modification to the building. The existing tobacco store is open from Monday through Saturday from 9.30 a.m. to 9 p.m. and on Sundays from 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. The applicant has indicated that if the liquor license is approved, they would expand their hours of operation up to 10 p.m. The sale of alcohol is regulated by a liquor license. This one would probably be a B liquor license. And those hours actually exceed the hours of operation, but they're generally regulated by the liquor license. There's one employee at the store, and that would stay the same. The expansion will not result in the increase in the parking requirement. The existing property is non-conforming in regards to parking. General retail uses such as the tobacco store or the liquor store, they all have the same parking requirement, one space per 250 feet of floor area. So with the expansion and the establishment of the liquor store, the parking requirement stays the same. With this expansion, the building is required 37 parking spaces, but there are only 18 parking spaces on site. This is for the zoning approval of the conditional use. If that is approved by the City Council, the applicant will have to apply for and obtain a liquor license. That goes through Liquor Commission and then ultimately City Council again. Now the zoning standards for conditional use, we've evaluated those in the packet and we do believe that those are satisfied. And that's why staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in the packet. And I believe the only one of note is the no consumption on the premises. The other ones are generally standard. So with that, I'm happy to answer any questions.

So just out of curiosity, I see that there's two main entrances. Are they required to have an entrance only and an exit only?

No. They would ultimately submit a floor plan, and this is actually part of that. It's prepared by an architect that analyzes the required exits. The facility does have to have at least two exits, and they do have more than that, so it should be fine.

Okay. No further questions. Commissioner Olson?

Are these two spaces currently combined? There is no separation between the tenant spaces, if that's your question. They were approved to occupy only the left, so 968A. So that's... Okay. No other questions.

Thank you. You're welcome. Commissioner Abuale?

Meaning 968B could potentially be leased out to somebody else?

That's correct.

Okay, and can you remind me of Elgin's restrictions for how close liquor stores can be near each other?

We don't have any restrictions anymore. A number of years back, this probably goes at least seven, eight years back, the city council amended the zoning ordinance to eliminate any distance requirements from a liquor store to a church or a school or things like that. So we no longer have any of those restrictions.

So if they don't get this approved or something, and someone wants to come in and lease 968B and open a liquor store, can they pretty much do that?

They would have to go through this approval again, because a packaged liquor sales establishment requires conditional use approval.

Okay, thank you. No more questions.

You're welcome.

Commissioner Jones?

Did this location previously, were they selling Delta-8 products and some of those that

were banned recently that's probably a question for the applicant okay thank you commissioner bosque do you know how many liquor licenses are along down the avenue i do not i do know that there's a a very similar liquor store that's one block to the east okay thank you you're welcome commissioner rubel so um

So the people from the tobacco store, they will run the liquor store as well? That's correct. OK. Just wanted to be clear. Thank you.

I don't have any questions. So thank you. I'll now invite the applicant to come forward. And go ahead and state your name and spell it for the court reporter and your address and tell us your thoughts.

Yeah, hi. My name is Good Evening. My name is Joe Mamusa, G-O-M-A-M-U-S-A. And I am the owner of 968 Dundee Avenue, Unit A and B. Can I just give you guys this? Because it will answer your question.

My friend did a...

I don't know how many people are going to be here. It looked like something like this.

Thank you.

So I have a speech. It's going to take five minutes if you guys don't mind if I read it. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Joe Mamusa, and I'm located at Friday Tobacco, 968 Avenue, Unit A and B. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you this evening regarding my request for a liquor license. Before I discuss the proposal changes, I would like to provide some background about my business. Due to the recent changes in the regulation regarding THCA product, we can no longer sell many of the hemp derived, which she asked about. They were previously a major part of our inventory. As a result, we are approximately 40% of our product offering, leaving a large portion of the store unused. Despite the challenges, we have continued serving our customers by focusing on tobacco product, fine cigar, vape product, and related accessories. We have worked hard to maintain a clean, professional, and welcome business. I am proud to say that Fire Tobacco has become one of the highest rated smoke shops in Elgin, and our goal is to continue providing excellent service to the community we serve. In fact, we are top rated smoke shop in LG by Google. Because of the impact these changes have, we had our business. Because of these impact these changes have had on our business, I am proposing the addition of liquor sale to help expand our offer and ensure the long term success of our store. The first image I will show you that you see is the current layout. The remaining image generated by AI. So it's the before and after how it looked like. The proposal converts the enclosed storage area in the rear of the store into a dedicated liquor section with commercial shelving and refrigerated display. Most importantly, safety is our number one priority. The layout has been designed to ensure that all exits remain clear and accessible, all fire and safety equipment remain visible and clear, and the entire store remain fully handicap accessible. The shelf will be commercial-graded retail shelf installed by qualified contractors. The design also maintains a clear sight line throughout the store, allowing staff to effectively supervise the sale floor at all times. We are committed to operating responsibly and in full compliance with the law of Elgin. We will continue strict age verification procedures provided by employee training on responsible alcohol sales and tobacco sales. MAINTAINING SECURITY MARKETS THROUGHOUT THE STORE AND COMPLY WITH ALL CITY ALGEAN REGULATION AND ILLINOIS LIQUOR LAW. OUR CURRENT BUSINESS HOURS ARE MONDAY THROUGH SUNDAY FROM 930 A.M. TO 9 P.M. WE MAY EVENTUALLY EXTEND CLOSING HOURS TO 10 P.M. DEPENDING ON BUSINESS NEED. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO NOTE THAT WE HAVE SPOKEN WITH THE NEIGHBOR TENDER REGARDING OUR PROPOSAL AND NO CONCERNS OR OBJECTIONS HAVE BEEN WRITEN. THIS PROPOSAL IS NOT ABOUT CHANGING THE CHARACTER OF OUR BUSINESS. IT'S ABOUT ADAPTING TO MAJOR CHANGES IN OUR INDUSTRY WHILE CONTINUING TO OPERATE A SAFE professional and responsible establishment that serves the resident of Elgin. Thank you for your time and consideration. I appreciate the opportunity to present this proposal and would be happy to answer any question. I'm open to suggestion and feedback from the commissioners that you believe would help me make the proposal successful and beneficial for the community. My goal is to work closely with the city and operate in a manner that reflects the standard and expectation of Elgin. So half of it got answers as far as the derived, the Delta. We used to have 40% of it inside the store. Due to the past one year, I believe it's January, they pushed the regulation for it. Elgin ended up banning it in June. So it did take away 40% of our customers, which is half of our customers were nursing home that came and bought Delta and edibles. And we do have it. If you can see the picture, we do have a ramp for handicaps. It's the front door right here. And there is an entrance to the ATM and enter to the regular store, which leads to the whole building. It is connected and it cannot be, I would not, you know, you cannot put another attendant next to me because A and B is connected together. So there's a opening in the middle. As you see on the picture, I did cover the middle line where it shows the six-plate cases. So if I do end up get the liquor license, it will just be open this way. And it will just stay handicap accessible and for the regular people. And we do not want to extend our term opening 10 is the max. Thank you. Any questions, I will be happy to answer.

Thank you very much. Commissioner Rubel, any questions for the applicant?

Regarding parking, I just want to double check. So you said it's already non-conformant for parking?

The property is, yes.

Okay. So how many parking spaces would you have?

Currently right now, because I own A and B, I have four of them, plus the back. But we did have complaints from the neighborhood regarding parking issues on the side of the building. It has nothing to do with Maria, the owner of the building. She would have told you. We have no issues with the customers as far as parking or they do not park in the side of the building. We park inside the building, inside the plaza only. Whatever is on the side of the building, that's out of my control. That has nothing to do with none of the tenants inside the building.

And how many employees do you have?

Currently right now, one. After the banning, it's one only right now. Okay, and then you'll... I'm the owner.

And you will get...

I work in Chicago, but because of the banning, I had to step away from it because the business did go a little bit down due to ice, due to the construction site right now going on in Dundee. So I'm trying to stay afloat where it doesn't put me out of business right now.

So will you be adding another employee?

It will be me and my brother right now. I currently have my brother. Which is, you know, family business. They always, family will always stick with you. So I kind of underpay him just to maintain the business, but hopefully if everything goes through, then it will expand for the community. And we wouldn't, we wouldn't mind having Elgin community working with us.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Commissioner Busquet.

No, no questions.

Commissioner Jones.

Thank you for addressing the Delta eight. I wondered that. Yeah, no, it's got to make up for it somewhere.

During six months, I believe they came in and they expected the store. If you look into the store, we are number one in Google reviews. We do not sell any deltas inside the store. We're trying to stay in compliance with the city of Elgin and we do not have any kids walking in the store. So it makes sense to put liquor because there's no kids inside the store. You have to be 21. If anybody enters below 21, we meet them by the door and they walk out. So I don't want to expand it to something different like a cafe or restaurant or whatever it is because I still want to sell my fine cigars and my tobacco. So liquor makes sense for this business to keep it in the same structure.

Thank you. Commissioner Bali?

Mr. Moussa, thank you for a very thoughtful statement. It was very well put together. I appreciate it. I actually don't have any specific questions for you.

Thank you.

Commissioner Olson.

No questions. Thank you.

Commissioner Gossica.

No questions.

All right. I would like to echo commissioner Bali's, um, comments about your thoughtful, um, speech. Really appreciate that. Um, and with that, um, I will now open the public, uh, hearing portion of it so you can, um, have a seat and we'll call you back up if we need any questions answered.

Yeah. Yep. So go ahead and have a seat for now. Oh, thank you. You want to keep the paper? Oh, yeah. There was a visual one, but I was kind of...

It's all good. Thank you. So I've got... There's two individuals on the sign-in sheet here, so I will start on the sign-in sheet with... The first individual is Leanne... I was going to go with Ravenwood, so I was...

But I've been here we were not here when we got the card one second you can go have a seat And I do feel bad about this I didn't send in the card saying no because I we were at a vacation for my 60th birthday party and bringing that up to say I've been in the neighborhood for 30 years and And I've walked across one more block to go to a very nice, well-run liquor store that I don't want to see them get hurt. I really am sorry to oppose you. But it's right there. It's been there. Oh, sorry. I don't mean to be breaking the rules. It's been there for 30 years that I've been married and in that location. They're a good place. They're good neighbors. I don't want to hurt them. to help somebody else. And so I'm kind of sorry they changed the liquor, how close liquor stores could be, because I don't want to hurt the liquor store that's been a good neighbor for the 30 years I've been living there.

Thank you. Yep. Next up is Jonathan Best. Best.

Hi. My name is Jonathan Bast, J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N-B-A-S-T. I live at 918 Hill Avenue, sort of about a block behind your business. I walk out my front door and I see G&Js in the distance across the parking lot of LaFleur. So I'm used to living near businesses and the traffic it brings. I guess my concern along with Leanne's was, again, in our area, we have so many establishments that people can purchase liquor and beverages. Do we need another one? That's for you to decide. Again, I sort of came to hear what the rules are because I didn't know what they were and many years ago I came to the liquor commission meeting when LaFleur was trying to get a liquor license. Things were different back then. So I just want to take an active part in my neighborhood. Several people have said they're not too thrilled about the idea because of parking and everything. And I know you mentioned the traffic on Dundee. I totally understand. We will take your concerns and go back and forth. I would like to follow this as it progresses through the system to see what develops. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. Now look to the floor if there's any other comments from the public on this petition. All right, seeing none, I'm going to close the public hearing portion and we'll look to staff for any final comments.

Unless there's no other questions, I mean, there's no other comments from staff. We believe that applicable standards are satisfied and staff recommends approval.

All right. Is there a motion from the commission on petition 10-26?

I move to recommend that the city council approve petition 11- sorry, 10-26, subject to the conditions outlined within the staff report and to adopt it as the findings of the commission, the documents and conditions provided within such report.

Second.

Can staff please call the roll?

Commissioner Jones?

Yes.

Commissioner Olson?

Yes.

Commissioner Abuali?

No.

Commissioner Bosque?

Yes.

Commissioner Gostka? Yes. Commissioner Rubel?

I have to say something. So, I mean, I appreciate what you've had to say, but I do agree that it does make sense. And since the building is open anyway, I'll say yes.

Commissioner, I'm sorry, Chairman Willermuth?

Yes, and I'd like to add a comment that I do think that I would urge the council and the Liquor Commission to look at the number of licenses in that area and maybe look at distance requirements. There are an awful lot of of packaged liquor stores in that concentrated area. And we continue as a commission to continue to get applications for packaged liquor sales. So I think it behooves all of us to take a kind of deeper look into some of those requirements.

Thank you. And just to make a note, the motion to approve was approved six to one.

All right. Thank you so much for coming tonight and continue working with staff on the application. With that, we will move on to the final petition of the night, which is petition 11-26.

Okay, so the final petition before you is the application by, and again, we have provided the required notices in this one. So this is the application by Mike Fitzpatrick as applicant and Blossom Properties II LLC as the property owner. Requesting approval of plan development as a conditional use and a conditional use. to allow for the establishment of an amusement and recreational service not elsewhere classified, more specifically a haunted house within the existing five-story building of the property commonly referred to as 80-102 North State Street, 202 Mountain Street, 215 Washington Street, and 105-111 Ludeca Place. We will refer to this as 80 North State Street. That's the main address of the building on the site. So this was before you last month, and it was continued with no discussion. So we'll start with the general overview of the site and the general location. So this is about a 0.7-acre property outlined in yellow that is on the west side of North State Street between Washington on the north and Mountain Street on the south, the property of Butts Ludeca Place on the west, Ludeca Place, I believe. It's pronounced in the West. It has a five-story commercial building that is approximately 21,000 square feet in floor area. It also includes a small paved vehicle use area immediately north of the building with the access driveway to North State Street. There is pedestrian access to the building from North State Street as well as on the south side of the building from Mountain Street. There are two overhead garage doors facing south as well that are used as loading docks for the building. Here is the bird's eye view that generally shows the building. So the building is on the southern end with the paved area to the north, and then the remainder, about half of the property, is vacant green space that used to be a parking lot at some point. As you can see, the properties to the north, south, and west have the same shade. Those are all zones CC2, center city district, just like the subject property. To the north is open vacant space. To the south is vacant space. And then to the west are five buildings. There are three single family homes and two family residences along Lodeca and one is along Mountain Street. Those are all rental properties. The building or the home that is immediately adjacent to the subject property is also owned, the home right here, that's also owned by the owner of the five-story building. The property does have a steep topography. Here's some images of the subject property. The frontage of the property along Lodeca or the Lodeca Place, that's about 20 feet higher than State Street that is along the east property line. And then here's some images that this is the area on the north side of the property where the parking lot used to be. These wheel stops are obviously still there. So the applicant is requesting approval to establish a haunted house experience within the five-story building. This would be the Evil Intentions haunted house that used to be at 363 Bluff City Boulevard as a temporary use from 2009 to 2023. They've since relocated to Maple Park, and they're looking to bring it back to Elgin. They're only looking to be open about six weeks of the year from mid-September to the first weekend in November, but they would lease the building for the year round to be able to modify the experience throughout the year for a fresh experience every season. The proposal is such that they hope to have a drinking place or a bar within the building on the first floor in the future, as well as three escape rooms that would be open year-round. Those would be the future improvements to the property. Now, I'm going to try to explain the general proposal. I think there's going to be a lot of questions about their operations, and I think those are probably best directed for the applicant. But I'll try to summarize some of the essential parts of the proposal. So they would be open about six weeks of the year, only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. On Thursdays and Sundays, they will be open from 7 PM until 10 PM, and then on Friday and Saturdays from 7 PM to midnight. They anticipate having about 120 employees between management staff, actors, makeup artists, and others, security, and so forth. During the hours of operation, when they first open up for the season, they expect about 100 to 350 customers per day. However, that peaks the weekend before Halloween is their busiest weekend. They estimate that about 2,500 customers could visit in one day. The operation is such that they allow groups of people, groups of five to seven individuals, in the building every 60 seconds, so every one minute. And they go through the haunted house experience. It takes about 30 minutes. Typically, individuals wait in the waiting line outside for another 30 minutes. So that's about an hour of time that they're at the facility. The applicant is proposing very minor exterior changes to the building and to the site. Most of the improvements are on the interior of the building. On the exterior of the building, they will be removing the outdated signs. The historic writings on the building that suggest hydroelectric, those would be permitted to stay, but other outdated signs that are advertising previous businesses would be removed. The entrance to the experience would be on the north side of the building. So this is the general site. This is the building right here. The site plan shows the general queuing area that would be on that green space with the entrance for general public from Washington Street. As people come in, they would go through the line and then ultimately enter on the north side of the building. uh and that once they enter on the first floor that would be right here they would proceed through the experience that would take them down to the basement uh they would go through the experience the the scare rooms or whatnot then they would go up to um to first floor and then this There we go. Then the second floor and then proceed through the experience, then up to third floor. And from there on, they would come down to the first floor again with the exit on the south side of the building. This floor plan shows where the future bar would be located on the first floor. And then, like I said, the exit from the experience would be on the south side, their pedestrian doors on Mountain Street. So on the exterior, the applicant would install a four foot high open design fence that would generally enclose this queuing area for customers. They are also proposing to install, for the season, 10 porta potties as restroom facilities for those waiting in line. This area would also have string lights, sort of ambient lighting and ambient music. That music would have to comply with the noise ordinance of the city. As is the case with any other business downtown, the proposal is not required to have any on-site parking. So no parking is required. However, they have provided extensive information as requested by staff to demonstrate how the crowds would be managed throughout their operations. And it sort of boils down to the customers are using a specific ticket purchasing app. That app, based on the timing of the ticket that people want to purchase, then sends them to a specific parking lot where they would park. At that parking lot, their ticket is scanned, and then that's how they are assured the entrance into the facility. About 75% of the customers are expected to purchase tickets in advance for a specific time slot. And those individuals that do that would be directed to the two parking lots on the east side of the river. This is known as the lot three, the parking lot south of the city hall that has about 150 parking spaces. And then if that one fills up, then the parking lot south of the library would be used next. The facility would provide shuttles. The school buses would be arranged to transfer individuals from these parking lots to the site. The school buses would unload passengers here along Washington Street where they would enter the queuing line. And then once they're done, the shuttle buses would pick up the individuals on Mountain Street and then take them to their respective parking lots. So these lots, you know, lot three, four, as they fill up, they've also secured additional parking, approximately 360 parking spaces that would be available at the facility by the Habitat for Humanity. So those are the parking lots for customers to purchase in advance. There will obviously be some customers that come to the facility and want to purchase at the facility. Those would be directed to park within the two parking lots on the west side of the river, the two public parking lots, one at the northwest corner of Highland and State. That's the lot one with 46 parking spaces. And then the second city owned parking lot at 300 West Highland that has 60 parking spaces. The establishment would have a number of staff members that will be stationed around the facility to direct individuals that are walking from those parking lots towards away from State Street towards Mountain Street to walk down to Washington and then enter the queuing line at that at that at that place. They would have extensive staff and security staff, both on the inside of the building and on the exterior of the premises. They would have staff at the parking lots where individuals would be parking. That's where their tickets would be scanned. And then those staff members would regulate and facilitate the loading of buses and ultimately leaving of vehicles from those parking lots. The, I will mention that the lot one would be set up for ride share, drop off and pick up. This is where individuals that want to set up ride share transportation would be directed to arrange for that pick up and drop off on that site. I THINK I WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT. I THINK THE APPLICANT CAN PROVIDE PROBABLY A LOT MORE DETAILS DEPENDING ON THE QUESTIONING. BUT THIS CONDITIONAL USE DOES HAVE TO MEET THE STANDARDS FOR CONDITIONAL USE. THAT IS PROVIDED IN THE PACKET. WE HAVE GONE THROUGH THE STANDARDS IN THE PACKET. WE BELIEVE THAT ALL APPLICABLE STANDARDS ARE SATISFIED AND THEREFORE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS IN THE PACKET AND YOU WILL NOTE THERE'S QUITE A FEW OF THEM. I will just note that the recommendation is subject to those conditions, and if there's any specifics about any of the conditions, I'm more than happy to answer those. Again, the applicant's team is here as well, and they can address the commission.

All right. I will start on my right with Commissioner Gostka.

No questions.

Commissioner Olson? For the future improvements, like the escape rooms, the speakeasy, would that have to come back to the commission for approval, or is that just they're good to go? No, that would be permitted, yes.

Okay. Commissioner Bali.

You answered most of my questions as I was typing, so good job. But one of them was the future plans. There is a bar in there, so that's also approved as of tonight? Yes.

Well, there is no separate zoning approval needed to open up a bar. Well, in CC2, that's not even required. This is a drink, you know, like a bar, like we had a 301 Dundee. In this case, it's a permitted use. So there's no parking requirements. So if they wanted to do that, they can do that at any time. As part of this application, we made sure that they show that where that's going to be within the building so that we kind of understand the proposal.

Commissioner Jones.

No questions. Thank you.

Commissioner Busque.

No questions.

Commissioner Rubel.

Just one. The property you said that's just to the west of the building, is that a house?

That's correct.

And the person who owns the building owns that house? Correct. And it's a rental property. And it's a rental property. Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I HAVE ONE QUESTION, ACTUALLY TWO QUESTIONS. DID THE MOVEMENT OF THE ORIGINAL CUSTOMER ENTRANCE TO THE BUILDING AWAY FROM STATE STREET TO THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND THEN THE PROPOSED FENCE AROUND THE CUSTOMER QUEUING AREA, DID THAT SATISFY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT CONCERNS? BECAUSE IT STATED THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAD CONCERNS AND THEN THE APPLICANT stated they made those movements relating to the customer entrance and the fence. Did that satisfy the police department?

Generally, those, yes. There were some other concerns, but those were the primary concerns to get the people off of State Street as they're walking up and down. Right. And that there is no entrance directly on State because that sidewalk is fairly narrow, and obviously there's a high volume of traffic on State Street, so the intent was to get that away from. And so that's why everybody's routed around to Mountain to kind of walk around.

Okay. And then you mentioned that ride share would be directed to drop off in lot one. Do you know, is there anything that would prohibit a ride share from just dropping off? You know, someone I know, I'm guilty of doing that. Just let me out here.

Well, hopefully staff members that would be stationed around the building would make sure that that doesn't happen. All right.

All right, we will now ask the applicant to come forward.

I have a speech she's going to hand out to you.

All right, good evening. Please tell us your name, spell it, address, and share your thoughts, please.

Sure. Colleen Behrens, C-O-L-L-E-E-N, Behrens, B-A-R-R-O-N-S, 13103 Fox Hill, two words, Court, Lamont, L-E-M-O-N-T, Illinois. All right, I'm Colleen Behrens. I serve as the CFO for Kahlberg Realty and Management, a commercial real estate brokerage and development company. While I am not a licensed broker, I am here this evening on behalf of Burke Arslan, owner of Kahlberg Realty and Management, who has been leading this project to bring EI Haunt back to downtown Elgin. Unfortunately, Burke could not be here this evening because of a family emergency, but he does send his regards. Joining me tonight is Mike Fitzpatrick, owner and operator of EI Haunt, Jasmine Rushing, the general manager, and Nick Heider, representing his family and owners of the historic Heider Electric Building at 80 Mountain Street, but we're calling that 80 State Street. at the corner of Mountain and Ludica Place that has been empty for a long time. We are very eager to see this business become a part of downtown Elgin. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak. Our request this evening is for approval of a conditional use permit that will allow EI Haunt to establish a permanent home in downtown Elgin. This request is about the adaptive reuse of a historic vacant building, investment in downtown, increased economic activity, and creating another destination that encourages people to experience downtown Elgin. EI Haunt is an established business with a 20-year operating history and is consistently recognized as one of the premier haunted attractions in the country. EI Haunt has spent the first 15 years right here in Elgin at the former abandoned casket factory. During that time, it operated successfully, safely, and without incident. Its customer base remains heavily concentrated throughout the Elgin area, and many of those customers still associate the attraction with this community. Bringing EI Haunt back is not introducing something new to Elgin. It is bringing home a successful business that already has deep roots here. EI Haunt can generate approximately a million dollars in annual revenue, can attract an estimated 20 to 35,000 visitors each season, and employs approximately 120 people throughout the year. Although the attraction operates for only six weeks each fall, the business itself operates year-round. Designers, artists, carpenters, fabricators, electricians, technicians, makeup artists, and actors spend the remainder of the year building and improving the attraction by hand. Every year is a completely new experience for returning guests, while the underlying structure remains in place to ensure consistency, safety, and efficient inspections. Over 20 years in operation, EI Hunt has passed every required safety inspection and has never experienced a major safety incident or an insurance claim. This is not a seasonal event. This is an ongoing creative business that provides employment, investment, and a year-round commitment to Elgin. Looking ahead, the long-term vision extends beyond the haunted attraction itself. Future phases include year-round escape rooms and additional themed entertainment experiences that would continue drawing visitors and their spending to downtown Elgin, well beyond the Halloween season. We have worked closely with city staff throughout this process to proactively address operational concerns. Together, we have developed plans for traffic management, customer queuing, pedestrian safety, emergency access, security, and parking. With the city, we created a plan to trolley visitors from downtown public parking areas rather than surrounding neighborhoods. More importantly, it gives visitors another reason to stop at downtown restaurants, shops, breweries, and other local businesses before and after visiting the attraction. EI Haunt very much complements the city's existing efforts. Nightmare on Chicago Street has already established Elgin as a regional destination during the Halloween season. A permanent attraction creates another reason for visitors to come downtown, extending that momentum, encouraging repeat visitors, and strengthening the businesses that already call downtown Elgin home. We have also been working closely with Jen Fukula and the Downtown Neighborhood Association of Elgin because we share the same vision, increasing foot traffic, supporting downtown businesses, and continuing to establish Elgin as a destination community. From the property owner's perspective, This represents the strongest opportunity in many years to reactivate an important historic building that has remained vacant. Rather than allowing another underutilized property to sit idle, this project invests in preserving and activating that space with a proven tenant that intends to make Elgin its permanent home. Finally, I'd like to recognize Burke Arsland's commitment to the city of Elgin. Through his commercial real estate and development work, he has invested considerable time building relationships within the community and sees Elgin as a place where businesses can succeed. His goal extends beyond this single project. He hopes to continue bringing additional investment and business opportunities into downtown Elgin. We believe this proposal aligns with the city's goals of economic development, adaptive reuse, downtown revitalization, historic preservation, job creation, tourism, and creating a vibrant destination that benefits residents, businesses, and visitors alike. We respectfully ask for your approval of the conditional use permit and look forward to continuing our partnership with the city as EI Hunt establishes its permanent home in downtown Elgin. Thank you for your time and consideration. We'd be happy to answer any questions that you have at this time.

All right. Thank you so much. I will start on my left with Commissioner Rubel. Any questions for the applicant?

Hi. Thank you for that presentation. I just have one question regarding the rental. Any pushback or anything from them? No? Okay. That's it. Thank you.

Commissioner Bosque?

When Elgin thought about Evil Intentions, they thought about the Elgin Casket Company. Like, that was the place to go. The more I went, The more I saw the infrastructure that you guys put into it, the effort, changing up every year. We were kind of sad that you guys left to Maple Park. But you guys hit it right on the head, bringing it back to Elgin in this location, mixed with Nightmare on Chicago Street and keeping it sort of year-round with the... ESCAPE ROOMS AND THE BAR AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL. IT'S GOING TO BRING A LOT OF PEOPLE TO ELGIN AND NOT JUST ELGIN NIGHTS. IT'S GOING TO BRING MORE FROM THE SURROUNDING AREAS AND I'M EXCITED. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

Yeah, it is exciting. It looks like a great plan. It looks like it'll fit really well. I did have a question. It noted on the broker fees and a minimum donation to the Downtown Neighborhood Association was included in our packet. Can you explain that for us?

As mentioned, Burke has a family emergency, so I was kind of brought in as a pinch hitter. I assume that if you asked for it to be done, that's not something you have information on, right? Just checking. Excuse me? You don't happen to have information on the...

It's just part of the contract that was submitted to us.

Okay, so if it's in the contract that we've agreed to... No, it was in the contract between your company and the tenants, the leasing, in the leasing contracts. You have to give your name and address.

Nicholas Heider, N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S-H-E-I-D-E-R. That was set up as an agreement with Burke as a commission, and he was going to donate a portion of his commission to the downtown...

neighborhood association oh okay so that's what that was very nice okay thank you thank you so much commissioner wally what's the capacity of the queue the waiting area the cube the outside waiting area should be around a thousand people we're still working with the numbers with the lines we have our ticket system allows us to do sorry online ticketing. So most of the people will show up right around their timeframe. It's going to be, it's gotten a lot more developed as it has the last time we were here. So a lot of people will kind of like stay home or hopefully go do something in downtown Elgin as they're waiting to come in. So we're still kind of working with the numbers and figuring everything out over there. It will be enough capacity to make sure that we hold any overflow for sure.

And you potentially expect 2,500 the weekend of Halloween.

We wanted to make sure we prepared for the worst so we're not caught. Or the best. Or the best. Correct, correct. Yes, yes.

But being prepared for the worst slash best, I mean, 2,500, I know these parking spaces well. Do you have any concerns on that? Go ahead, Jason.

Yeah, I think...

Could you provide your name?

Sorry. Jasmine Rushing, J-A-Z-Z-M-I-N-E Rushing, R-U-S-H-I-N-G. Previously operating at the old Elgin Casket Company in Elgin, we did have a night or two where we hit just over 2,000 customers in a night. So we do plan for that. In capacity and what we've been able to manage with crowd control, but with parking, as we discussed with our ticketing software is we have it incremented in different capacities, whether it be by the hour by the half hour to control the flow of what that traffic can look like. We also have the full autonomy to be able to limit that at any time. So if we do see that there is a little bit of like. traffic or whatever the case may be with our parking spaces, we can instantly go on to the app. We can change that. We can limit tickets from being purchased at that time on site in the moment. So that way we can limit then the additional traffic that could cause any overflow parking issues. And what was that number that you said the people who prepay, was it 75%? Roughly about 75%. We do obviously try to push for the online sales. That way we can prepare and we make sure we have the staff that we need for that night. We do have the parking and the plans and kind of have an idea of what we're going to have just set overall for the night. But we are open to walk-ups as well.

with the lockup idea too, that lot one and two is right near the facility. What's to stop the people who are prepaid or who are coming or whatnot to just take one of those spaces? Do you guys direct them? Is there someone standing by lot one and two?

Yes, we will have parking and security attendants in the lot so that way we can make sure that they are being directionally provided the guidance that they need for those areas, make sure that they're in the right areas. Obviously security as well, parking lots, you know, want to make sure that they're safe and there's nothing that's going to be of any concern in there. And then our event staff as well, that would be surrounding the building to make sure, again, anybody that had a question can be directed to the right spot. These individuals will also be visible whether they're wearing safety vests they have cone lit up wands to be able to provide that direction so that way you're not wondering is this a guest is this somebody who works here they will be very identifiable

Go ahead. We can hear you.

Thank you. It's also my understanding that when you pre-purchase that ticket and are directed to that lot, you are scanned at the lot. So if you try to park in a different lot, you won't be able to go to that lot.

So that's why I asked about lot one and two, because you're not scanned for those lots. Those lots are the people who are just showing up.

Right. And then there'll be staff members out there. Right.

Thank you.

Commissioner Olson?

Okay, so a couple questions for you guys. How often are the shuttles running between the lots?

They're going to start at about 6 o'clock p.m., and they're just going to run concurrently all night. We'll start with one every week that we go by. There's more and more customers that come, so we'll start adding more buses as needed.

So if someone's going into the experience every 60 seconds, does that mean roughly maybe every 60 seconds someone's coming out of it then as well? Possibly, yes. Possibly, yeah. I guess my concern is coming into the building on the north side, you have a great plan set up, but when they exit on the south side, they're exiting straight onto a street that is not closed to traffic, correct? So, I mean, I think that's my concern is how long are these people waiting for their shuttle right on the edge of the street right there?

correct they shouldn't be waiting too long our event staff will be at the exit as well too we'll have multiple events staff out there to shuttle them up towards the spot we're going to create a little line out there as well too for the pickup spot for the buses so we'll have the people wait in the queue line out there to go back so we'll make sure that people aren't on the streets wandering around doing something dumb we'll have eyes on them all the time i know parking isn't a requirement for this but just curious where staff is going to be parking for these with 120 i believe we discussed that staff is going to be directed to park across the street is that lot three

it's anywhere on the east side of the river correct yeah over there so that they'll be directed to park across the river okay with the parking or the staff parking too i just want to know a lot of our staff is family and friends and so there is a lot of carpooling and sharing so not all of the staff does drive an individual vehicle

Okay. And will staff have the option to take a shuttle bus at night given that you close at midnight on some nights? Yeah, that's correct. Great. Okay. Only other question and concern I had was with Nightmare on Chicago Street. I know that was talked about a little bit in our packet about how a lot of your customers are going to be attending Nightmare on Chicago Street. Do you foresee that there might be a higher walk-in presence there? that don't pre-purchase tickets because they're at the event they hear about it you know are there concerns about enough parking and shuttle buses with streets closed in downtown elgin i mean that's now a two-day event this year it's a much it's a big event so how do you foresee that working out with your plans

Yeah, I think as far as the walk-ups, we do work really closely with Jen so we can make sure that, you know, whether it be the marketing or the communications is making it kind of more aware of, hey, we do online ticketing. This is best recommendation. Also, it caters to the guests. Walk-ups typically would have a little bit longer of a wait because the tickets are based off of timeframes, and so that grants you the entry at the time. But as far as the traffic and parking fees, I'll let you cut that out.

nick heider offered up an extra overflow parking lot for us to use down the street and that should solve all of the issues that we would have for nightmare and chicago street okay um for your queuing on the north side is that going to be graded i hope to a flatter degree at any point yeah in the pictures it's kind of hard to tell but it the slope goes higher as you go up we're going to try to only use around half of that for the queue air queuing area because that is very flat land right there okay so as the grade starts going up we're going to avoid that and keep everybody more on the flat area i walked it to see how bad it really is it's bad it can get pretty bad up there yeah yeah um i think that's all i had thank you so much thank you

I'm having a hard time understanding how the parking is going to work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these parking locations are open to the public, correct? Correct. So how do you manage the control of who gets to park there and those that aren't attending the event that want to park there as well?

I mean, I think that with our hours of operation being outside of standard business hours, it does help in that favor of, you know, you're not worrying about the standard daily traffic or any participating local businesses that are offering customer entry at that time.

We will have staff members out at each lot as well, too, making sure everybody is where they're supposed to be, organized and everything, making sure everyone is picking up all the trash at the end of the night. So with staff members in every lot, we should be very well organized and able to control everything.

But, Commissioner, it is... it is not as if evil intentions will have exclusive use of these lots they're sharing those lots with the general public that's why they have a system set up where as lot one or sorry lot three which is the city hall lot as that fills up they're monitoring that the app switches over starts routing people the old library lot so it's in real time so that uh it's uh it responds to the demand

With that as well, all the parking and security attendants use walkie-talkies to be able to communicate with each other so that way they can then effectively communicate whether or not that parking is getting full and if we need to reroute if needed.

So is the payment more for the shuttle service instead of the parking? Correct.

Correct. We do not charge for parking.

I guess that's where the confusion was, my bad.

Yes, no worries.

No further questions.

I don't have any questions. So thank you so much. You can have a seat and we will open up this portion of the hearing to the public. So if there's any members of the public that wish to speak, please come forward and share your thoughts. All right, seeing no comments, I will close the public comment portion of the hearing and look to staff for any final statements.

Nothing further to add, staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in the packet.

All right, is there a motion from the commission?

I move to recommend the city council approve petition number 11-26 subject to the conditions outlined within our packet and to adopt as the findings of the commission those findings also provided within our packet.

Is there a second?

Second.

Can staff please call the roll?

Commissioner Albali?

Yes.

Commissioner Jones? Yes. Commissioner Bosque?

Yes.

Commissioner Gossack?

Yes.

Commissioner Olsen?

Yes.

Commissioner Rubel?

Yes.

And Chairman Wildermuth?

Yes.

The motion is approved seven to zero.

All right. Thanks so much for your time this evening. And please continue working with staff on this. all right we will now move on to the next item on the agenda um other business is there any other business nothing from staff commissioner jones i i just had a

question maybe an observation i guess um we've had a lot of activity on dundee avenue corridor which is really nice i know that's under construction with a state project but i guess i that's my neck of the woods so i come off a 90 there i'm coming into downtown i'm i'm in that neck of the woods all the time There is always panhandlers when you get off a 90. It looks very unattractive. There is trash about. There is no plants. It's bare dirt. All of our corridors coming in that way. You get down to Congdon Avenue, it's crumbling curbs. It's really an unattractive area. And and i feel like maybe the city of belgium could do better in regards to that i also believe the tiff funds extend almost all the way down to ninety so i hope those properties are being included into summit you know wherever that boundary is I feel like maybe the city of Elgin needs to step it up in some of those areas too. I'm looking at these photos of the crumbling sidewalks, the crumbling streets around these businesses. It's like we need to take care of what's ours too, right? I was over at Lords Park the other day. Somebody kicked all the things around the pond into the thing that the benches are peeling paint. Like we need to have some pride of ownership too as a city if we want the businesses to be having that kind of pride of ownership. And sometimes I don't feel like it's being reciprocated. We're asking for an awful lot of things sometimes that I think are appropriate and good and well thought out and serve the Elgin well long term. But I think we also need to be here's what we have for you too because it seems a little one-sided in some of these areas that we're seeing so i just want to toss that out there that i hope that some cosmetic improvements will will be taking place in these areas where we obviously have businesses that want to invest so thank you i will just second that

to no end it is a really sad situation in that area and the businesses that are affected by it and the residents that are affected by it and if the city of belgium can do anything to help that situation a little bit then i hope we have some kind of voice there

I'm going to actually have to hop on and third that because I actually, I also, I get off at that exit and I have the same exact thoughts as you, Commissioner Jones, so I'm going to have to jump on this bandwagon this evening.

Me too. For the record. The staff is certainly agreeing to that.

I live on the west side.

East side pride.

That's right. Any other business from the commission? Seeing none, is there any public comment? Seeing none, I will look back to staff for summary of pending development applications.

Nothing new substantially to update on the commission. I just want to provide an update on that gas station that's on Liberty. There was a question at last meeting. I promised I'll reach out, and we did. See the same unfortunately the same answer that they're they're lacking financing trying to obtain contractors but at this point city will take further and for enforcement measures and We'll see what happens see how how much luck we have in courts Sure, you're welcome But that's about it unless there's any questions from anybody about anything Miss Jones

And another observation, there are several packaged good stores in the area, but I think on the west side, they're just larger. In the strip malls, we have a couple neighborhood shops. They're little tiny places. On the west side, the liquor stores that I see are much larger and more of a physical presence in the strip malls and that that I see.

I don't know if you would know this. The gas station that was at Kimball and Brook Street that was torn down, do you know if the city purchased that as part of the future redevelopment?

No, I don't believe so. But I don't know the story behind that. I noticed just like you did that it was being demolished, but I think it's privately owned and somebody decided to demolish it. Interesting.

Okay. Thank you.

All right. Next item on the agenda is adjournment. Is there a motion to adjourn?

I move to adjourn.

Second. Staff, please call the roll.

Commissioner Jones?

Yes.

Commissioner Olson? Yes. Commissioner Wally? Yes. Commissioner Bosque? Yes. Commissioner Gasca? Yes. Commissioner Bruegel? Yes. And Chair Wilderman? Yes. The motion is approved. We're adjourned.