Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the December 18th, 2025, our last meeting of the city plan commission for this year. I'm Alfredo Borego. I chair this commission and I call this meeting to order at 131. Commissioner Hansen. Statement to the public. The city plan commission has sole and final approval authority over subdivision maps, which is statutoily limited to a ministerial examination of the application's conformance to all applicable code provisions. The staff report for an agenda item may include conditions, exceptions, or modifications. The commission may approve the item with all staff report conditions, exceptions, and modifications, including additional measures regarding the item as imposed by the commission. Otherwise, the staff report with all modifications, exceptions, and conditions is approved, and the applicant shall comply with all provisions of the staff report. Commissioners will consider all agenda items other than subdivision items in the form of a public hearing. The normal process is as follows. First, the commission will hear a staff report followed by a statement from the applicant. Then, members of the public may speak followed by any final statement from the applicant. Finally, the matter will be closed for further discussion for a motion among the commission. The commission shall then make a recommendation that will be forwarded to city council.

Thank you, Commissioner Hansen. Mr. Siggoia, changes, additions, deletions to the agenda. Chairman, excuse me, chairman. Uh item number five, we have a name change from Price Brothers Farm unit one to Price Brothers Crossing Unit One. as per the applicant.

So, it's Price Brothers Crossing Unit One, correct? They changed the name. That's all we have. Being that that's a typo, I guess uh I'll entertain a motion to uh

motion to approve changes to the agenda. Second. We have a motion and second. No discussion. Seeing none, all in favor say I. I. Thank you. And we move to um Thank you, Mr. Sobia. We move to public comment. Is there any public comment? If there's anybody on the phone, star six to unmute that would like to address this commission. One more time. public comment. If there's anybody on the phone, I don't see anybody here in person, but if there's anybody on the phone, star six to unmute.

Seeing none, public comment is closed. And we move to uh the consent agenda. Motion to approve. We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda. If there's no discussion, all in favor say I. I

all opposed. Motion carries. We now move to item number four. And for that we have Mr. Fontes. Good afternoon chair, members of the commission. So font this with planning on inspections. Item four. The agenda is Gateway states unit one pre-plat M involving a reubdivision final application. Here's an aerrow view of the development. This development is outside of city limits and it is north of East Drive and east of Joe Battle Boulevard and it is within the extra territorial jurisdiction. Here we have an aerial view showing the subdivision subdivision superimposed over the imagery. The applicant is proposing to resubdivide 28.11 acres into 164 single family residential lots. Lots uh range in sizes from 5,01 square ft to 6,220 ft. The storm water drainage for this subdivision will be provided from a ponding area uh from an abuing subdivision. Primary access to the subdivision will be from Sunfire Boulevard. And this application was reviewed under the current subdivision code. Here we have an image of the final plat. And to conclude, staff recommends approval with conditions of of Gateway State's Unit One Replat M on a resubdition final basis subject to the following conditions. and that is that the drainage pond for Gateway State's unit one replat L needs to be accepted prior to concurrently with Gateway states unit one replat M which is this um this application and number two that the city plan commission require the applicant uh to landscape the rear of

all double frontage lots and that concludes my presentation thank you thank you Mr. this commissioner's questions. No. Uh, can we hear from the applicant?

Believe the applicant will be phoning in or the representative I should say. It I see someone unmuted but the uh teams is on mute. Hello. Can you hear me in the

Yes, we can. Okay. Well, uh, whoever's on teams, you're unmuted. Can you also unmute your phone? Good afternoon, uh, commissioners. My apologies. This for DA Group for the record, and we concur with all staff comments.

Thank you, commissioners. Questions for the applicant? No questions. All right. We thank you, Mr. Applicant. I didn't quite get his name. Scott with CA Group. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Escarati.

Thank you all. Appreciate it. Thank you, Commissioners. Item number four is before us. Motion to approve with conditions. Second. We have a motion and a second to approve item number four with conditions. Any other discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say I.

I. All opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Now we move to item number five and for that we have Miss Aguilar. Good afternoon Sharon and members of the commission. Ma with planning and inspections. Item number five on the agenda is prize brothers crossing unit one involving a major combination application. As you see it on yours is the one that we changed from farms to crossing. This development is within the city of El Paso and it's located east of Patriot Boulevard and south of Texas and New Mexico state line. The applicant is proposing to subdivide 36.43 acres to create 171 residential lots ranging from 08 to 23 acres in size. one park of 4.17 acres, one pond of 3.27 acres, and seven linear trail lots leading to the park. Storm water drainage will be managed by the the pond that they're uh facilitating. Price Brothers units will have Price Brothers crossing unit one. Correct. Uh will have two points of access. One from the US Highway 54 and the other one from Dyer Street. And this development was reviewed under the current subdivision code and is compliant. Here we have the preliminary plan. Here we have the final plan. The applicant is the first to implement the newly adopted small lot provision under title 20 and and approved by state code

counting. It has 52 small lots out of the 171 that range between 3,300 square ft and 3,724 ft. And with that, staff recommends the approval of P's brothers crossing unit one on a major combination basis as it complies with title 19 requirements. And that concludes my presentation.

Thank you, Miss Agil. Commissioners, questions. So, did they remove the easements from the parks or why was that denial? Yes. Thank you. Any other questions, commissioners? Uh, m Commissioner Massude, turn your mic on and speak to it. the small lots that they were doing in accordance with SB15,

right? What is what are the size of those lots? The ones that they're providing, they're 3,300 square feet, the dimensions like what's the frontage by they're 30 by by 110 depth. Okay. Okay. And the minimum as by the SP15 they're 30 by 75. So they do exceed.

Will they have driveways? I mean, being 30 feet wide. Kevin Smith with plane inspections. That's a design issue. Um it's it's up to them to see if they would uh have that. And often what happens is the the subdivider developer will design the lots and then sell it off. And so it'd be part of the home building process, determine if they're going to have driveways or not. Oh, okay.

Uh, Commissioner, good afternoon. Uh, my question is on the setbacks. Uh, so they supposed to have five or 10 feet on on the sides, right? They need to comply with uh with the regular sewing laws and all that. So having 30 feet of frontage with setbacks, I mean, it's very little uh construction area that they would have. Are they going to have to comply with all the regular zoning laws?

That is correct. Uh, Mr. Massud. Um, Commissioner, I'm sorry, Commissioner Rebe. Sorry. He doesn't even look like me. I I know. I know. It's the end of the year, so my my brain's gone. My apologies, Mr. Rebe. Um, they will have to comply with all zoning requirements, which under the small lot definition, it does um dictate the uh the zoning requirements for setbacks. And so, when they come in for building permits, they'll have to comply with that.

And what are the setbacks? 5T 10 ft. Um 5 feet on the sides, 10 feet on feet on the rear. and they can go up to zero on the front. Okay. Wow. So those houses only going to be 20 ft wide. It must be long.

Okay. It's it's a possibility, but but again, we see in a lot of other urban cities, um it is common place. Um and the as was stated when these amendments were presented to the plan commission as well as to city council, the goal of these is to increase the housing stock in Texas cities, especially the larger ones um over 150,000 people. And uh often we think of El Paso maybe it's more of a you know more of a spread out or rural nature but I think it's effort from the legislature to to uh see about how we can increase the housing stock and housing options throughout the state. Indeed, I think that's what that was what the intention of that SB15 is to increase affordable or you know uh affordable housing the word I mean I'm not using the term properly but you know but could they actually come in and ask for zero lot line on the side on the setback to put some kind of like uh you know

town home type of setup. They could ask for reduced setbacks but that would have to go through I believe a special permit process. special permit process, but that's not part of this application. If it if it they do not ask for it, they'll have to comply with all zoning regulations. Okay. All right. Thank you.

And what is the zone? R5. R5. Okay. Yes, sir. Um, Mr. Gilad, are there any houses around there or is it just desert all the way around? There is a community, a subdivision a little bit north from this one. Not too much, but not much right now going on yet. Yes,

actually, Mr. Chair, I'm developing in that area and that's the area of Mosquite Hills close to that and there's almost 2500 rooftops that have sprouted in the last few years in that area. Thank you. There's also the Vist Dorte development which is a little bit I believe south of here.

Southwest. Yeah. Yeah. That's currently under development. This is also not too far from the um the Meta facility there off of Stan Roberts which is currently under construction. And we often see a domino effect or a ripple effect with a development like that such as Meta where you'll have that large uh development occur and then others will will come including rooftops.

Yeah, it's already over 2500 rooftops. Idea school just opened a campus there about three years ago and the expressway is coming right through that area. That area is gonna boom like crazy. Okay. Any other questions?

Thank you, Miss Aguila. Can we hear from the representative? If you're on the phone, star six unmute.

Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Oh, good afternoon, commissioners. Uh, my name is Karen Barasa. I'm with Train Associates and just for the record, we agree with all staff comments. All right. Thank you, Miss Barasa. Commissioners, questions for the representative. Seeing none. Thank you, Miss Barasa. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Commissioners, item number five is before us. Motion to approve with all the uh changes. all their uh staff recommendations. Staff recommendations. I mean, we have a motion and a second to approve item number five with staff recommendations.

Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say I. I. All opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. We move on to other business. For that we have Mr. Samura. Good afternoon, chair, uh, and commissioners. Uh, Lisa Amora with planning inspection. So, as you are aware, today is we're almost ready for the holidays. We're not quite there yet. So, you're going to have to share some time with me still. So, as you all know, we we like to have some uh kind of training. use this uh time for to go so over some of the stuff that the planning department checks and stuff for your learning. So for today we have a presentation regards to non-conforming circumstances or situations or legal non-conforming. We'll go through those terms right now. Uh so really quick uh I'm going to go through some terminology just so we're kind of on the same page as we start. uh non-conforming uh that kind of refers to a legal use or the structure uh that's currently non not in compliance with with current codes, current requirements. Uh legal non-conforming we use that term when it is a structure or used as not complying but we have legalized it. uh and typically means that we have registered the city has registered a property or use as we know it's not complying but it is legal and we'll go through why we go through there and then lastly the grandfather we hear a lot in the in our department everyone calls it like that uh especially real estate uh agents uh technically it's a synonym of legal non-conforming meaning that it's something that's legal already but doesn't comply

question At at what point does it become legal non-conformant? Is it a number of years or what? We'll go through that. Just hold tight. Uh so one thing I'm going to go through right now is the codified policy uh in our city code. Um just to kind of summarize it, the city encourages the eventual compliance with zoning requirements or technical all city requirements. Uh one of the things uh that we do not ask for is for demolition technically or removal. We technically don't ask for it. Um but we do have obviously we don't we cannot allow you to continue a use or structure that doesn't comply with requirements unless we legalize it and we'll go through that again. So, one of the things to know though is in order for the city to register something as legal that doesn't comply again legal non-conforming. Uh, one of the things we have to check for is it was legally established. It has to have been legally established. Meaning that either there were no requirements when either the use or the structure was established like obviously there were not no regulations at the time or they were complying with the current regulations at that time. Uh for example obviously the Sony code and we've gone through amendments. We were talking earlier about SB15 and how that changed stuff. Uh so something like that right before uh there were something that allow it and then as we move forward in time we amended regulations and something changed that doesn't allow them anymore. Uh as long as you know we it can be proved that it was legally established then okay we can continue allowing and register as legal non-conforming. So the applicability and I think this is where uh what you were going Mr. Orbe. So, there's a couple of things that apply for the city to register as legal

non-conforming. One of those things is anything that was uh legally established prior to the modern zoning code which was adopted November 23rd, 1955. Not sure why it was called modern. I think because there was only one other zoning ordinance at the time and this replaced it. Uh but anything technical at some point someone decided this is the time. Anything before this we're gonna say it's okay. Uh so anything after that has to comply. That's one of the things. The other one is annexation obviously. Um, as we know when we deal with you, well, you all deal with a lot of plats in the ATJ, they don't have to comply technically with zoning and I think we've gone through that sometimes like wait, they can technically do a lot of stuff that we don't allow in the city as long as the county allows it. So, that's the thing. If they were already there before the city annex became part of the city, we have to allow them to continue. Uh, another one, resonings. Obviously, uh there may have been a resoning at some point. Uh we have we have had citywide resoning at some technically I think in 55 we had one where the city was resone. Um so obviously anything that was there before uh will allow it and they can continue even though the zoning may not allow the use or or setbacks things like that. Uh another one is the adoption of GR code regulations technically amendments again changing things and the lastly uh and well this not full list but lastly anything that's affected by right away acquisition right think of textile acquiring land eminent domain things like that obviously you know is not the wasn't the an issue created by the owner it was someone else taking creating a a nonconformity and think of like the lot

size or setbacks they reduce the lot size and now they don't comply. So one thing I want to point out here is in no time in no instance a term of time is suffices to say that something can be allowed. Uh we've heard this in our department people coming to ask us like it's been there more than 15 years that should be grandfather right no that's not the case doesn't happen it has to again it has to be have been legally established at some point and the and the city staff will review on that and confirm and research if needed. Uh and then the other one the ownership because we also get a lot of people saying hey I just bought the property it was already there like unfortunately now it's an an issue you acquiring right once you technically sign the papers by a property you acquire all those issues and you're responsible for those so fortunately that's not something we can do anything we can do something about any question now

yeah I do okay so that That's where the real estate agents need to come in and let the people know, correct? That, hey, you're buying something that is non-conforming. I mean, if they were really good real estate agents. My other question is November 23rd, 1955. Man, if it was November 24th, you're out of luck, right? Why November 23rd? I mean,

well, I think it's more like it's still November 23rd, you're fine. If it was the the day before. Wait, no, you're you're right. I'm I'm Hey, I just want to get out, I guess. No. Yeah, exactly. So, say 1955.

Now, we do have some Now, since you're talking about that, uh there's some things and kind of provision that would say, you know, we still have some time. Um technically in the code, and this is chapter 20.22, 22 it does state that anything that was kind of in process you can continue and finish. Now if you didn't like for example you're building something and you leave it alone you start before you leave it alone then you want to try later after everything expired but then you're out of luck.

Mr. I got to make a comment on on what Mr. Burggo said. Most real estate agents do not know exactly the rules. So it's really up to the property owner to do their necessary studies to see if uh is the right thing by hiring an engineer, surveyors, attorneys or whatever is necessary to to get things done right because a real estate agent is not the person responsible to

that wouldn't that be up to the title company? Also the title company. Uh if I can, Kevin Smith, for the record. Um so I think that's a great point, Mr. Chair, what what you're saying there about the the realtors. Um, we've been doing trying to do increased efforts to educate the realtors, but sometimes the ramifications of at the end of the day they're trying to sell property. That that's that's their goal. But, um, sometimes there are ramifications um upon the property owner that if they inherit something that's non-conforming there, it has to be legalized some some way. Um, we do have a number of realtors that do come see us beforehand, do their due diligence, those that give proper guidance to the um to the um to the property owner, the proposed property owner, but um they they tell they tell many things just to try and sell property. Um my neighbor in my neighborhood, he was told by his realtor that nothing's ever going to be developed um past his house. Obviously, we we know that development happens. Um we we've had property owners who who have a proposed roadway for the major thoroughare plan and this is not a a little roadway. It's one of the major ones going through their property. They weren't advised of that. But we've we've tried to increase our efforts to educate the realtor company just so that they know just come see us. We'll give you the guidance and see what needs to get done to make sure we can find a pathway to get it get it legal. Then shouldn't that be uh part of uh u when when you're a realtor to go get your license that you know all these things and to advise your clients. I mean instead of just applying for a realy license and there you go do whatever you want. You know

I'm going to answer to that because I've been doing this for 40 years. So four years 40 years. So uh a realtor cannot give you legal advice because he's not an attorney. A realtor cannot give you engineering advice because he's not an engineer. A realtor uses a title company to review the title. So, the realtor is only going to coordinate. So, he's not an expert. He's not an engineer. He's not an attorney. He's not a title company. And so, that's why the realtor should not be the person that that makes you make a decision. You really need to hire the professionals on each field. license.

Yeah. But a simple guys before you buy the house, you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to do that so you don't get yourself in trouble. If I was a realtor, that's what I would do. As a businessman, I always advise my my my clients on certain things. Yeah, I can't do anything about it, but I advise you for this, this, and that. But anyway,

the title company is a process that I would it is a liability to not hire a title company. And it is their job to say, hey, this is the use, this is whatever. They will tell you that it's that it's non-conforming. They will they'll adise you to or a lawyer or that's what they will do. They will do a title search and they will do on the property ownership but not as far as compon.

Yes, keep going. So, I'd like to do a really quick public service announcement. I don't uh there are some realtors that work with us and check uh and we commend them for that. Uh there's some of them that well I mean we don't know right who's not checking with us. Uh things happen. We do get uh residents that obviously have issues and they don't know how they got there and and we we understand. Um now there again there's some other ones that do a really good job. There's title companies that do a really good job and that's when they come to us technic typically for kind of how to fix stuff and for options and we'll guide them. Then there's the other ones that you know the uh owners that close they don't know how they close because there's issues with the property. So um our recommendation is always to share with city staff. So we're always obviously there to to guide people for whoever is watching right now. Uh and we'll guide them through what what options are there and if there's any issues with a with a property before they close preferably. So I'll just like to put that out right now.

Thank you Mr. Someone single go ahead. Yes. So next slide is uh non-conforming situations. We have multiple it can be a lot issue. Uh we have an average width minimum width requirement a depth uh square footage area. Uh they use there some uses obviously are not permitted depending on the zoning district. Uh with the structures the buildings we have issues sometimes with setbacks with the height or the density parking. Obviously, there's not enough parking. It's an old building. There's not enough spaces or none at all. Signage, same thing as a building is there's sometimes uh issues with the structure with the setbacks, the height, which is typically what happens in the city right now. Uh the area and the number of signage and then the personal wireless service facilities or the antennas for uh the phones. Same thing, set back side, the location and camouflaging. So here we have one example about the non-conforming lot. So per the zoning and this is an example right it is on an R5 zoning district which requires 45 ft of width 90 ft of depth with a area of 4500 square ft. So this property is short five feet. So they have 40 they meet the depth that's not an issue and the area because of the width is is short 500 square feet. So in this instance the the lot was platted well and as an example could have been plotted or it could have been split before 55. Well 50 before 56 we cannot use 56 as a base typically because it's November 23rd 55. We'll check like closer that but typically we just for make it easier for people will say before 56. And if I could just add on that Mr. Sure. Uh we do have aerial imagery from 1956 as well. So that also helps determine that. I think that's the earliest imagery we have to try and help decipher if a building has been there

since. Is that imagery from the central appraisal district? It is. I don't believe I do not believe it is. Oh okay. No. Yeah. So for again this an example, right? So we confirm we will city will review staff will review uh and then if they comply um then we can legalize it. In this instance, it was confirmed. We we allow them to continue obviously even without complying with the lot size. Uh another one is the use. We have an example here on the left. It's a single family home on a C4 uh commercial district. Um in our code, currently we don't allow any single family homes in commercial districts. Uh probably to protect them from higher uses, commercial uses. uh in this instance and this is the Marcel Street. This is the old part of the city and this is probably a portion that got resone back in the 55 uh like citywide and they just we just kind of blanket zone and areas. Uh the home's still there, right? the the purpose for the city was probably to eventually transition. Uh and we see a lot of for example right here central uh along the gateway where we have still homes

and Pyano and Pyano which probably we wanted to do commercial but we still have homes. And so for example that one we know like it was either before 56 um or it was before the Sony uh was adopted. And then on the right we have a grocery in an A3 which is not permitted as well. Uh also here downtown technically. Um same thing. So again this was obviously reviewed. It was it was it was existing already before the the zoning came in. Uh in regards to signage uh we see this a lot. The height they go really high. Um actually I think this one is a typo. I think the height was 35 ft 10 ft extra feet. This one is at 74 ft high. So this might have been all like back then when either was part of the county there were no regulations for the signage or the city allowed something higher back then uh sign area 2. So obviously that it did went higher than that. Um and this one technically we kind of confirm it was already there before the establishment of technically the the sonico we have right now the full rewrite happened in 2007. So it was before that already there. So even before uh 2007 or subsequent uh amendments to the zoning code that we've been having. Uh so we confirm it's been there. So we they can register. authentically they be registered and they can continue using it.

Mr. Samoto, what's the hyphen the new uh uh signage? Is there a code that you can't be higher than? Correct. So, what I was trying to have here and that's what I was kind of correcting. Uh it's supposed to be 35 ft high. Uh it does vary depending on the street the classification of the road and the zoning. So it will vary between technically can go down to 8 feet 10 feet 20 well not 20 25 35 45 in some instances um I think the highest well the highest will be 50 and that depends on when there's like a bridge like on the freeways the overpasses we kind of will take into account the highest point of the road just to make it fair for everyone that still going to be visible. Uh so we do cap it at 50 in some instances. Um so that's kind of will be the the maximum that we allow. But again it depends on the zoning district and the the street.

Got a question. So uh when the business sells the sign gets changed. So to what extent can we change these signs so they can still remain there? I'm getting there. Sorry. Have to wait a little more. Well, I'll let you know right now. So, the other one is going into height is the the antennas, the wireless antennas. Uh, for example, this one is 180 ft high. Uh, maximum height was is 60 ft. Uh, for this type of antennas. Um, we did uh there was an amendment I guess the 2007 zoning ordinance kind of did uh apply some changes to them. Um, And I believe the one was kind of the camouflaging and that's where you have seen those some of those antennas that look like trees, pine trees or palm trees, things like that. Now, we did have a a an amendment in 2020 that changed that and added uh the high and low visibility types. Uh technically, we say if it's low visibility, here's where I'm getting I get confused. High visibility might be where everything's vacant and okay maybe putting looking like a tree will kind of blend with the surrounding. Uh is that correct or is the other way around?

Yeah. So the the goal of these is to hide them at the end of the day. That's the intent of the the cell tower ordinance and obviously we're not here to talk about that but um the goal is and so there's provisions to make it them allowed to go higher in certain instances but they have to be camouflaged better. So that's where it looks like a a steeple or a bell tower um on an existing building. Um at the end of the day, I I don't care what what you are a 100 foot or 80 foot tree in El Paso, it it I don't think it exists here. So um it's going to look really out of place. And so um the the high visibility ones are what we consider the trees now because you can't hide that. the low visibility are the ones where um you can't even really tell that there's a cell tower there. It should look natural as part of the built environment.

Yes. So, back in 2020, the amendment was to kind of do the low visibility, which will be something to blend with the building like a bell tower and those things. But if you go if you go out low visibility, that means that your cell coverage is going to be less and we're going to need more cell towers to cover. So that way we all use our phones that we can't get away from, you know, so we only have more. Correct.

Well, well, actually the the higher you get from what I understand from when talking with the industry is the higher you get, you actually get better. You is able to cover more because I think it's line of sight. And so if they want to go higher, there are provisions in the code, but then they have to up the design and really hide those facilities. Um,

so it's sort of like trying if if they want to go that route, they can, but there's also at the end of the day, it'll be an increased cost on their end because then it has to be hidden more with the the built environment. And again, it depends on the zoning district as well. So the higher the more intense we're trying to push it more towards the heavier commercial the C4s even the manufacturing and try to dissuade them from um installing them near residential.

Thank you. Great. So that's kind of what went into effect in 2020. So obviously this we still have a lot of them and we cannot require them to remove them. They're still using them. Um so they can continue as long as they they prove to us that it was legally established. Uh so getting here into okay so what do do I need to legalize something? Uh so one of the is the big things and that's why I have bolded them the first four is those are kind of the main things we typically get is the 1956 aerial like Mr. Kevin was mentioning earlier the city do does have uh aerial imagery uh satellite imagery or maybe was a plane already wasn't the satellite yet um we had imagery available technically anyone can have access uh so we use that a lot uh the area obviously prior to annexation this property got annexed in the 90s okay we probably have aerial imagery before the 90s or that time so we can check uh the sun map and we'll go through that I'll provide more information right now about that one if you haven't heard of it. Uh we can obviously use city issue building permits. If we issue a permit for something then that's what makes it legal. So then you can if you show us proof that we let you have a permit and build it that suffices and then we have the other ones. Uh so here we have an image of the aerial 1956. This is properties on a show and blancher uh rim area and we can see the obviously the roof. Uh one of the things that obviously we cannot see in on this ones on aerial imagery is we don't know what the use is. Uh on on this one obviously wasn't the the use wasn't an issue but we know where the structure is. If there are issues with setbacks we know that it was already existing that way. Uh the next one is a sambar map. to the same property. So a sambar map was kind of some maps that

were created for a a fire insurance company and the purpose was to know what the type of how the construction type of materials used in the construction and they became a historical asset for everyone technically. So they documented uh uses you can see here on the main building the bigger one has a D meaning it's a dwelling. the A on the top. It's an accessory, probably garage. And you can kind of see the um what the the the um what's it called? The outline of the the building. So, we can check on this to to know what's what was there and confirm was already there. It was already built. Okay. Uh building permits. Again, we issue a building permit. We typically have plans. The plans will show what was permitted. Well, the permit itself should kind of show. If not, we need plans. They probably should have a plan and we can check on those plans what we approved. Uh poll directory. I don't know how much you are aware all with the yellow pages. The poll directory here in El Paso. Uh it does have a lot of information there. It was a directory obviously for people who live where their phone number their names their family members in some instances uh businesses things like that. So for example on this one it does tell you the use of the the structure or the property. For example here we have it told us that 1722 and I think this is this was Arizona it was apartments and technically had names of the people who lived there. So we know that okay the was apartments back then. So then they want to continue apartments. If it's not permitted then okay well it was already there. It's been apartments. Uh so some things to know about legal nonconforming registration is that it can be um terminated at some point either the owner terminates it by doing something they shouldn't have or the city because

something happened that they didn't should have done. Uh so one of the big things and this kind of applies to uses and structures is the use was changed. Hey I I'm have a grocery store. It was a grocery store. I started doing retail. Okay. Uh after obviously the new code, new changes, amendments or uh whatever the changes uh in the zoning that doesn't allow them to have it anymore, then you're demonstrating that you don't want to comply anymore like hey I'm changing it. So the again the the main purpose of the non-conforming uh registration is to allow you to continue and eventually comply is lead you to eventual compliance with zoning requirements or city requirements. Uh so you change something like that then you basically you cannot we cannot register. grocery store.

So there is a provision in in chapter 20.22 that states that um the abandonment that's where kind of says abandonment and termination. Uh a a use is deemed abandoned if there's a lapse of 120 or more days. Now, we'll kind of look into that about what that lapse looks like. It said that you just left the property, never came back, you were trying to find a someone to lease it to. Uh, okay. May not consider, we may not consider like abandoned. It's just that you haven't been able to get someone. So, staff will review and check and and decide on those instances. Um again the non-use nonoperation or vacancy and that's where we get the 120 days uh portion of the structure was damaged or destroyed by intentional act. If you're saying well I'm going to demolish the home. It's like well there then there's the in you're kind of showing intent that you don't no longer care. Well let's say there's an encroachment you demolish it. Like well then it's your time to comply, right? Why go back to something that's not complying? Um now it depends if that's intentional right. Uh the next one's basically destruction from any other cost. Uh if it amounts to 50% or more of the value at the time of destruction technically you cannot go back. Like why spend more money on what on that might as well build something new that complies. Uh if any portion or or all the structure is dilapidated, substandard, not maintaining suitable condition for occupancy and we go back to that 120 days, then we're going to deem it abandoned that you not showing interest, then we're going to say that it has to comply uh in the future. And lastly, we don't allow you to move it. Uh this kind of more like mobile homes for instance when they're not allowed they're existing they're not

permitted we won't allow you to kind of move it as well mobile homes depends um but you know you cannot tech technically remove one and replace it with another one like once you remove one then you're demonstrating that you're kind of going into compliance um because you're you're getting rid of the nonconformity. Any questions right now? Continue. Uh there's some exceptions for single family dwellings though.

We have a question. Mr. Mass. Can it transfer ownership? Yeah. So the registration stays with the property. Think of like the conditions that we do go through resonance it stays there uh as long as they continue whatever the nonconformity is and there's again there's no lapse. They can continue whoever it is. And and I think if I could just add real quick to what Louis said, it applies both to residential and commercial. So say there's a non-conforming commercial. As long as that use is remained the same, it can change property owners and still remain.

Same with Yeah. Same with the house. Correct. So technically speaking, any mobile home park inside the city that is non-conforming, all the mobile homes have to be older than I mean before 1956, right? Not necessarily. Um, mobile home parks is different. They they are permitted. Well,

they're peritted the zoning. You can move them then. So, um, mobile homes are there are certain zoning districts where they're allowed in the city. Um, I think what Luis is mentioning is if if they're in an existing say zoning district where they aren't allowed, we'd have to determine if they're non-conforming or not. And that's where it may be before 1956, it may be 1980. We'd have to look at the time the ordinance changed and see if it was conforming, make sure that remains. But if they're swapping out the mobile homes, that's where they need to be compliant with the zoning. And that's the thing that one of the big takeaways that we'll get to is the goal is eventually is to have all the properties be conforming to the the the current requirements. This is a band-aid very frankly to um to allow this to keep continuing until it gets properly addressed either through change of use to be compliant or change of the structure um to be compliant with the current requirements.

Um so continuing there's some exceptions for single family dwellings. you know, those are kind of the most you don't want to well uh it's uh something sensitive, right? When you have your home and you can no longer be in your home. So, there's some exceptions. So, the construction clause doesn't apply to single family homes. You cannot destroy it. We allow you to rebuild it. And actually, that's kind of um the second one like we allow you to rebuild it. That's not an issue 100%. But you have to keep the original footprint. You cannot make it bigger. Now, In regards to that, making it bigger means uh as long as you're you're still compliant with zoning, you can make it bigger. There's not an issue, but you cannot increase the nonconformity. If the issue is setbacks, we're not going to allow you to go beyond more encroach more into the setbacks. Uh you can reduce it even if still non-compliant, but we're not going to allow you to go beyond the encroachment or the issue. Uh you can still again rebuild that. you can build bigger as long as you the new portions you're building are complying are following regulations. So that that's not an issue. And then we do allow the single family homes in commercial and manufactured districts as long as you know they can continue as long as the setbacks are maintained. Again, they're not going to build something and encroach more and the parking in case there's an issue with parking. Uh as long as they continue with the same parking uh whatever they were they had at the time they had one space they didn't have parking then as long as they continue with that they don't kind of if they had two spaces they remove it that's where we kind of get into trouble but as long as they continue the the same way they can continue now I think Mr. Okay. So now this is technically for signage. Uh so there's some things that apply to signage that differ from like buildings. So one of the things is and

this is something that will void again terminate a will deate abandon things like that. uh if you change the method of technology used to convey the message, think of a just a flat sign and you try to do a uh what we call a CDM like the digital display that that's a no no. So that will void the the legal non-conforming registration or or we won't allow you to even register if it got changed then we won't allow it. Um the other one is modification to lighting. You know, uh obviously there may be some sign that were just there were they never had lighting. It was just a flat um let's say like a wooden sign, face sign. Uh you want to change it to vinyl and have back lighting. That's a no no as well. That will void it. Uh even the increase in illumination. And this one's kind of a little hard. Uh what's say the increase? Is it because it's brighter or is it because you're adding more lighting? More lights. So that may be an issue that we'll we'll review on that. Uh any structural alteration. So again the the policy is to eventually comply with the requirements. So the code does state that technically we won't allow you to modify if the purpose is to extend its useful life of a sign. So and that includes obviously using different materials from wood to steel things like that. Uh we won't allow you so you can continue having what's there. You can change the message uh but it is limited about what what else you can modify. You can paint it. That's okay. Um but not alter too much. Uh expansion obviously the height you cannot make it higher. Uh you cannot make it wider, deeper, you cannot increase the area. Um technically you cannot going back to structural alteration. you if it's a square sign,

you kind of go to a rounded sign because you have to keep the cabinet as it is because then you're kind of there's intent probably to extend its life and again the policies to eventual uh compliance. uh rebuilding the sign. We do allow it again just like the other the structure as long as it doesn't go beyond 50% of its value. Uh something happens to it uh and you continue within those 120 days typically. Okay, you can go ahead and rebuild it. Even if doesn't comply, you can do it the same or you have the option to obviously just comply, build a new one that complies. Uh, and lastly, kind of moving. Obviously, it's a no no. Just like the mobile homes thing, like you have a sign. I just going to move it five feet over here. Um, that's a no as well. We won't allow you. Um, well, I'm getting to the end, so I'll hold on the question. So, the takeaways here, uh, so again, the city policy is to encourage the eventual compliance with the Sony regulation or well, technically city regulations. Um, again, The city doesn't require you to remove destroy uh a nonconformity. We just technically don't allow you to use it. Uh but we're not asking for you to remove it. And I think there's some signage. You may have seen signage that they haven't used in a while. It's still there. We're not going to ask you to take it away to remove it. Uh we'll let you decide when you want to take it off, but we won't let you use it. Um, one of the big things though, um, in order to register something as legal non-conforming is the burden of proof, it's on the applicant. Uh, so the city is not going to go and try to check everything for you. Uh, you don't have the evidence that we need to

prove that it was legally established, then we're not going to obviously decide in your favor until you show us. Um now the again as city staff we do work uh very closely with the applicants and help as much as we can but at the end of the day the burden is of proof it's on the applicant. Uh again legal non-conforming registration can be terminated uh can be lost terminated. So, as long as you comply with the requirements, don't do anything that you shouldn't be doing. You can continue. Um, again, eventually we would like everyone to comply. Um, applies only to uses or structures that were legally established. You build something without without the permit, uh, knowing that there were regulations, we're not going to be able to legalize that. uh and the nonconformity cannot be re uh legalized based on timing or ownership. Right? Uh again, we've heard people saying it's been there more than 15 years. Like that's not something we do. Uh and with this kind of I go into questions. Any more questions?

I do have a few. Okay. Now I know what happened in Paisano uh between Fox Plaza and I 10 where those areas were commercialized. We had a house at a corner and it was knocked down and they built a lot and they start selling um they're selling um um big rigs, diesel rigs u not the trailers and it just doesn't fit the neighborhood. And I asked and I asked and they said, "No, well, this was a blanket commercial that the city did along these areas and they're doing it along the gateways." Well, I think that's wrong, especially when you have um a neighborhood association that's trying to make things better where the city just comes in and just blankets it, you know. In this case, your department did that without letting us know what was going on and it's made it worse, you know, and then you have these uh signs there that says no uh trucks over 25 ft allowed, but nobody's looking and they go in there and it's over and over and then when you call uh authorities uh law enforcement, code compliance, they can't prove it because they got see it happening, you know, and that's to me that's wrong. The other one about the signs is um man, those signs are a nuisance. Again, I'm talking about the neighborhood association that I represent right there at Paisano and uh Gateway San Juan. And we have some signs that are there. They're just a drag. Especially the one that was that was there and they built the medical center of the Americas. as you're coming east, it just blocks that view big time and there's nothing they

can do. Some other cities uh have enacted um regulations where the signs are only so high and encouraged uh the people, the sign people to lower their signs. El Paso doesn't do that. I don't know why we're so backwards on that, but uh those signs have been there since I was a little kid. Oh, well, let me put it to you this way. Since I 10 was built, and they're huge and they're a nuisance. That's just my complaint.

Yeah, if I could just address a couple of those. So, um I'm not aware of when the last city initiated resoning took place of a neighborhood. Um it would have come through our department. Um but more than likely, it was it's been decades that they've been that it's happened. Um the the signage is always a interesting topic. I'll just say um staff feels a certain way about signage and then the industry feels a different way um about it. They are distracting a lot of times and I I've seen some some beautiful, you know, some communities where they have a lot lower signage, even not even having pole signs where they're just um the monument signs where there's, you know, a little foundation and then a a small maybe up to six 10 ft high and that's it. Um, but again, each community has to figure out what's right for themselves and it's a balance and any code amendment for that would have to go to city council. And even if it does change, all those signs that are polls right now say they were banned in the city of El Paso, they would still be grandfathered in and be allowed to um pursue legal non-conforming um for that. And

except that those were all done in the 60s, not prior to 1955. And so a lot of them have been existing for frankly decades. Um, so it it's something we work with as as Luis mentioned, you know, the goal is to eventually have them become conforming, but sometimes it does take decades for it to take place and but you you slowly see it transition over time to become more compliant.

Questions, concerns? Commissioner Hans question about the um communication polls. You called them something else. It was like a four-letter acronym. So, you're trying to discourage those like the palm trees, the the fake evergreens. You're trying to discourage that just in general.

Yes, I love them. I would like to make my stance known. I love them. I disagree with that, but okay. They they are still allowed. So, the acronym is PWSF, which is personal wireless service facility, or the cell tower poles, I guess. But um but they they are still allowed to be um to go that way. Um the issue with a lot of them is maintenance and it it really is a problem where the palm the fake palm frrons um fall off. There's one I'm aware of where it's an Italian cyprress that's I believe it's either 70 or 80 feet tall every or it could even be taller. But all the the the uh

it's all falling off. That's just a seasonal change. That feels like it should. Anyway, I am a firm. There you go. So, if I'm in a neighborhood, yes, it is a ridiculous. I have a favorite tree. It is like 80 feet tall. It's probably not that tall. It looks ridiculous on the landscape. You can see that tree from the intersection of I 10 and Artcraft. I love it. It is. It looks ridiculous. It's so much better than just a metal sign, like a metal pole in the air. again that that the goal is to really hide them. So that's where we really encourage them to be on top of tall buildings, you know, to what we call roof mounted. So that's where it could be a steeple on a church. It could be a bell tower on a on a school site. It could be a um be incorporated as part of signage um

on a building. It could be on a building. Um but the goal is really to hide them um to try and mask it the best they can. But the trees are still allowed. Any other questions, concerns? This is the time to ask.

Have a comment. Being a commercial broker, uh you know, those signs uh bring business to to this businesses, you know, I mean, if you're on it 10, you see a Chevron sign, you get off, you get gas. If you see a McDonald's sign down the road, you're hungry, you get off. So that's so that's why when we sell commercial properties, they try to keep the because they're not allowed anymore. So, it's just a point of view of the commercial users. That's why they they want to have these signs.

Mr. comments, Mr. S. Happy holidays. Thank you. Let's say no more questions. That concludes the presentation. Thank you, Mr. S. Thank you. At this time, I'm going to take a point of privilege and just thank staff for everything over the years. I wish staff thank the commissioners for showing up. We need to show up more all the time. And if you can't, maybe this is not the commission you need to be in if you miss a lot. So, with that, I want to wish everybody a merry Christmas, a happy new year, a safe holidays. Commissioners, M.

Mr. Chair, if I might, on behalf of staff, we'd like to thank you as well, commissioners, for your dedicated service. It's a pleasure to meet with you every two weeks to uh to conduct this important business of the city. We wish you and your families a merry Christmas, happy holidays, and be safe, please, out there, and we look forward to a wonderful 2026.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have a motion and a second to adjourn. The last time for the city. Any discussion for the last time this year? No, for sure. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Motion carries. Thank you.