Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Hello everyone. Good afternoon and welcome to the July 16th meeting of the city plan commission. My name is Lauren Hanson, chair of the commission, and I call this meeting to order at 1 33 PM. Can we hear the statement to the public?

The City Plan Commission has sole and final approval authority over subdivision maps, which is statutorily limited to a ministerial examination of the application's conformance to all applicable code provisions. The staff report for an agenda item may include conditions, exceptions, or modifications. The Commission may approve the item with all staff report conditions, exceptions, or modifications, including additional measures regarding the item as imposed by the Commission. otherwise the staff report with all modifications exceptions and conditions is approved and the applicant shall comply with all provisions of the staff report commissioners will consider all agenda items other than subdivision items in the form of a public hearing the normal process is as follows first the commission will hear a staff report followed by a statement from the applicant then members of the public may speak followed by any final statement from the applicant Finally, the matter will be closed before the discussion or motion among the Commission. The Commission shall then make a recommendation that will be forwarded to City Council.

Thank you. Staff, are there any changes to the agenda?

Good afternoon, Luis Zamora with Planning and Inspections. There's two changes, item three, SUSU 26-00005, Sierra Crest Replug One. The request is to postpone for two weeks. Again, this is item three, SUSU 26-00005. for two weeks. Item 4, SUSU 26-00031, Upper Valley Ranch Unit 2, also request is to postpone for two weeks. um again susu26-00031 postponed for two weeks and then i apologize i have to go back to item two um item two uh this is uh susu26-00025 cantera commercial center one Just a minor revision on the representative. Instead of Conde, Inc., it's going to be GRB, Integrated Engineering Solutions, LLC. Again, this is for item two, SUSU26-00025.

So to clarify, we're just going to have the approval of minutes on the consent item number two on the regular and then the presentation?

Correct.

Okay, thank you. Any discussion on those changes? Can I get a motion?

Motion to approve.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Motion carries, thank you. Is there anybody here who would like to speak on something that is not on the agenda? We did just remove something that is probably the reason that some of y'all are here today, the Sierra Crest Replat, I believe. staff i don't know if you want to allow anybody to speak on that so that they don't have to come back another time or if we're considering that part of the agenda still madam chair being that we voted to postpone it it's not on the agenda got it

So Kim Smith, for the record, again, this was postponed. So this is not on the record anymore. So this will be heard at the July 30th meeting. It's scheduled to be heard. Again, if people like to write comments, they can email the planner who is addressing it with the right written comments and members of the public can are invited to come and speak at that time.

Can they speak today if they're interested, since it's not on the agenda today? I'm only asking because this is what the fourth time it's postponed and if there are people who are coming to every meeting trying to speak on it it is probably pretty frustrating.

Technically yes they can speak on on this so they would have three minutes if they would like.

Is there anybody here that would like to speak on that item. Star six to unmute if you're on the phone. Okay, all right, public comment is closed. Or anybody else wanna speak on a different item as well? Something else that's not on the agenda today? Okay, perfect.

Public comment is closed.

Now we will take a motion for the consent agenda.

So moved.

Second.

Any discussion? All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Motion carries, thank you. We move on to number two, the resubdivision combination.

Good afternoon, Chair and members of the Commission. Mirna Aguilar with Planning and Inspections. Before the presentation, I do have the representative that wants to address you.

Good afternoon, members of the commission. I just would like to postpone the item another two weeks. There's an issue on the rezoning, on the zoning, current zoning, because we have one parcel with different zonings. So we're just gonna go and make a small modification to the plat to have a lot for each different zone that we have. And I would just like to request if we can postpone that for another two weeks.

OK. Do we have any any reason to not want to postpone. I imagine not.

So the request was made by the applicant. Again, it's up to the commission. Staff does have a recommendation of approval with conditions on this, but it would be up to the commission if you would like to postpone it or not.

Was the approval with condition that they get an approved rezoning?

Prior to the recordation of the plat, my understanding. I believe that there was another condition, but one of the main ones was, as it is a split zone lot that was being proposed, that would have to be resolved prior to the recordation.

okay before I take a motion amongst Commission we do have somebody who isn't here today that had some comments on this and I'll go ahead and read them just in case you want to address them in these two weeks that you're gone I'll read it and then I'm gonna be out of breath but this is from it's from Rudy but I don't know his last name it is from Commissioner Cavazos Cavacier And he says the identified risk is that this sixty three point three eight acre subdivision combines one previously plotted commercial lot and six unplotted legacy traits tracks to clean up an irregular patchwork of old railway lines and fragmented boundaries. While this historical boundary cleanup is administrative the underlying engineering calculations contain a critical stormwater failure mode. El Paso Water Stormwater Engineering Review warns on page 12 of the packet that while this total systems capacity appears sufficient, individual contributing watersheds drastically exceed their assigned basin limits. Specifically, watershed F on its own completely overloads and exceeds the design capacity of pond two. If approved under these miscalculated drainage specs, pond two will suffer a catastrophic overload event during a 100 year storm, generating severe downstream flooding across its surrounding commercial developments. A recommended solution is that this commission must protect neighboring properties from secondary and third order flooding risks. Recommended the approval of this major final plat be strictly conditioned upon the developer correcting the watershed boundary arithmetic and resizing pond two to fully contain the peak volumes of watershed F onsite prior to final plat recordation. Formal position comment. Since our municipal code mandates absolute structural adequacy for stormwater infrastructure before recordation, this plat must not be recorded until the developer physically adjusts the drainage layout to ensure pond two mathematically withstands the unmitigated runoff of watershed F. None of that is binding. That is the commentary from somebody who is not here today. I do appreciate what they sent in. You have two weeks to address that if you decide to. If you don't address that we may we may discuss it next time you're here.

All right. Thank you. And as for the record, my name is Martin Gomez with GRB. And just to answer some of those questions, right now the drainage plan is all conceptual. We don't have enough capacity as far as ponding areas. There's a large pond that we're doing in the existing.

If we're not going to hear it, then why are we explaining it?

If we're going to hear it, let's go ahead and hear it and hear it out. Yes, we can present it at the time.

So to the commission, so right now there was only an applicant request to postpone. I have not heard a motion yet from the commission.

Motion to postpone it for two weeks.

Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion now? No?

Thank you. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Aye.

Can I get a roll call?

Okay, this is a vote on item number two. I will call your name, that mean how you vote. Commissioner Badillo? Aye. Commissioner Borrego?

Nay.

Commissioner Henson?

Aye.

Commissioner Uribe? Aye. Commissioner Regan? Aye. And Commissioner Woloski?

Aye.

Five ayes and one nay. Motion carries.

It's postponed. Thank you. OK. We're moving on to other business, which is the presentation update on housing strategy.

Okay, I always mess that up Casey Schnell for the record with urban planning and design division and I'll be presenting on the housing strategy So just as a quick overview, we're taking this to work session on Monday this Monday July 20th as an update to council the housing strategy is part of the larger envision El Paso comprehensive plan update and so the intention is then to go through adoption for the envision El Paso plan as a whole from August through September I don't think it's sharing just yet.

IT can you share the presentation please.

And I forgot my glasses so.

Thank you.

OK. You can go to the next slide. So essentially what I'll be sharing within this presentation is the process that we went through from essentially April, May of last year up till today, standing in front of you today, to fulfill a housing needs assessment that then helped us to inform our strategy. Go for it. This is essentially just reiterating the timeline. We came forward to council in November to present our housing needs assessments. We had already gone under like an eight month process with a working group and other stakeholders that I'll show on upcoming slides to inform a needs assessment. So it was both based in best practice research alongside gathering local data from the people that were engaged along the process, and from last November to today, we have been working through the same engagement process to really develop the strategies in response to the housing needs that were unveiled, essentially.

Go for it.

So these are essentially the overall groups that we met with. We had a housing working group that met with us from May to May, May of 2025 to 2026, that were neighborhood representatives, local housing advocates, developers, and kind of a good mix of folks. We worked with community-based organizations that were really representing our aging residents, really helping to inform sort of program gaps And alongside our housing working group, they were really helping us to vet the data that we were researching into local nuances. We worked alongside developers that, you know, developer was kind of like the broad topic, but they were also lenders, designers, builders, people essentially in the development sort of ecosystem in El Paso to help us really identify what are the barriers and constraints to housing development. And then we worked alongside additional focus group of design professionals, our A&E professionals that have personally, whether it was them as designer developer or for their clientele gone through what's called an infill development policy. And so they were really helping to tweak that policy. You could skip through the next one because I just, yep. Yeah. So the next few slides are just going to be a summary of the Housing Needs Assessment, which I was probably here in October or November speaking to that.

Casey. Casey. Ismael with Planning. Yep. They don't have any audio right now on, they don't have any audio right now on Teams. Okay. So you can just hold on for a little bit. Okay. He's trying to get that up and running.

Okay. Where did it stop off at? It doesn't matter. I wonder, I saw Kevin get up. My, what, my, I know, trust me. We'll get there. This is only like the 20th time presenting. We presented the housing needs to you all, yeah, but this will be like quick recap of what those needs were, very quick, and then we'll get into the strategies. Yeah, that's new.

All those listening on Teams, can you hear my voice? Can you hear the conversation?

Okay.

Hello, testing. Can you hear my voice? OK, Casey. It looks like the audio is now working. We can continue presentation.

OK. Okay so again I have a few slides just to go over recap what the needs assessment was telling us. You can move forward. Essentially it's going to go over demographic trends and some development trends. And so while we see a stagnating population we also are seeing and projected to see job growth. So really understanding what is the makeup of our households right now and how are we going to meet that job growth. Go for it. We see over the years that we have aging population so over 60 years and older that population is growing. Those people may now become you know fixed income downsizing aging in place while we see a decrease in younger folk under the age of 20. And so you know we're seeing that in lower enrollment at schools and just in probably in our neighborhoods go for it. We see a decrease of rate of housing production. So this is really just showing us that while housing production across the U.S. has really been on a steady incline within the county and El Paso, with the city being even less so than the county, it's been on a decline, maybe kind of flatlining at this point, but more of like just a signifier to ask us to delve deeper as to like why would this be, why is this trend occurring? So over the years, we've seen that fewer homes have been affordable for lower income levels, so both for sale homes and by rental. So from 2020 to 2023, this is looking at for sale homes in that 120 AMI, which is area median income and below. I can't read the metric right now, but I think it's 45% down to 27 or something. So a decrease in affordability for people earning that same amount of money that they don't have that housing stock available to them. And so same for renters at 80% AMI and below. So they've seen a decrease in available rentals to what they're earning, what their AMIs are over the years. Available affordable rentals, I should say. So we'll jump into AMI. You can go to the next slide. So area median income. I guess before we jump into that, I'll talk about two different things. So when we talk about housing and affordability, a lot of times people think of subsidized housing. So yes, there's affordable housing with a capital A, and that is subsidized housing, federally subsidized housing to really bridge that gap. It's usually income restricted. It's for a lower income base. Then we'd look at attainable housing. So what should be naturally attainable to people earning 80 to 120% AMI in an area? What should be naturally affordable? Next slide. So area median income is a standardized metric developed by the federal government in order to provide the subsidies to lower incomes. And so it's a way to measure income within a region. If you think about it as having a total list of incomes in an area such as El Paso, our area median income is the income that falls in the middle and ours for a two person household is 636, if I'm reading that correctly. and so this is just giving us a metric as to how to of what affordability looks like for us in our area what we saw through this study is that because wages are so low and housing costs are so high that typically affordability metrics are for 80% AMI and below but we're looking at really broadening that gap for housing attainability to be like more naturally occurring affordable housing to be at the 70% to 120 AMI. So decreasing that a little bit to help meet our workforce and wages. Next slide. This shows essentially the top 10 jobs in our area. Those orange lines show the average salary in those jobs, and the blue indicates the number of jobs in that. You'll see some outliers of higher earners, and these jobs span everything from healthcare to service industry to administrative, educational, local government, everything in between. These are our top 10 jobs. And the overall medium wage across these is $40,000. So we're not meeting 100% AMI there, we're at a 74% AMI and that was an indicator for us to bring that AMI down when we're talking about attainability. All right, so in summation for the housing need, what came out of this study was a need for 35,731 units. You can move forward. And the breakdown of that was based on a catch up need and a keep up need. So a catch up, you could see it as our current need of 18,300 units. so all of these sorts of uh graphs and data points i was showing you were really indicators for us to dig deeper into why were these trends happening whether demographically or economically across the board and so looking at three identif or four identifiers excuse me that were showing us what our current need is and so looking at overcrowding while we are a very multi-generational community When we compared that against the state and against the nation, we still had a higher proportion of people living under one household, multiple families living under one household. And so overcrowding was measured as more than one person per room in a household. Rooms included kitchens, bathrooms, living rooms, et cetera. When we look at temporary housing and homelessness, we're really looking at the stability of housing for the ability for people to keep in their home of choice and their neighborhood of choice. And when we looked at community and we were looking at, you know, where are people working and where do they live? And so understanding that there was a high portion of people that drive 60 minutes each way to work in El Paso, but choose to live elsewhere. And so really just an indicator for us to be like, why not here? Why not live here? When we look at a projected need for a keep up need, it's based on job growth over the next 10 years. So that's where we get our 17,000. And so those combined equal our housing need of 35,000 units. Move forward. This is broken down by sub areas really just to kind of break it down even further as to where how this could look through an implementation or across the city. And so the way that this is broken down is proportionate to the jobs that are existing in these sub areas currently based on what we're projecting. So those are the numbers that you're seeing there. These aren't like hard lined geographies it's just a way to further explain what this looks like at a sub area level. then just to sum up the housing needs assessment is you know what really came out of this was that we need housing across the board so it's not just for very very low income subsidized affordable housing but it was everything from low income to a big bucket being in that middle income workforce housing market rate to luxury housing so both for rent as well as for sale so really meeting the needs across the board So as we went through this process, we identified key issues that then helped us to inform what strategies would alleviate these issues. And so the strategies are there on the right into three main buckets. You could go to the next slide, because I think it speaks to it more. So we identified a key issue, we identified the strategy to alleviate that issue, and then we broke it down into actions and tools for implementation. and so those three buckets that I was just sharing which I'll break down even further is the way that we're looking at it is through processes programs and policies so at the city this is the way that we can implement whether it's stabilizing neighborhoods diversifying housing or increasing production which were our three buckets it's looking at what process improvements can we have what programs need to be developed and or what policies need to be reformed and so This is the way that our implementation matrix is gonna look in the final report and the way that it's organized is identifying that strategy, how it's responding to the issue, the specific actions and tools to be implemented and the departments responsible for that implementation, plus resources. So less dollar signs mean less resources needed, more dollar signs more. And then also looking at, you know, what, who is, which income level is this targeting? So identifying the target AMIs, as well as any partnerships available for that. to implement that. So when we look at strategy one it's reinvesting and stabilizing our neighborhoods so keeping people in their neighborhoods and home of choice we have essentially two buckets neighborhood stabilization and anti displacement. You go for it. So we look at neighborhood stabilization it's really increasing resources through programs for home repair loans and grants for renovations tax exemptions. And so our community based organizations are really helping us to identify the gaps in programs needed for people that that are on our lower income levels to help them stabilizing their housing, whether it's for rent or for own. And so in addition, it's creating partnerships with local lenders and community based organizations or community development organizations for long term community investment, neighborhood investment in those areas. We have this anti-displacement as part of the strategy, but it was a natural conversation through this whole process, and we've identified some tools that were discussed, but what really came out of it was that it needs to be prioritized as its own process. And so as a council directive, the same consultant that worked on this is developing an anti-displacement strategy alongside a working group and through a community engagement process. That will then also develop a tracking tool to understand Displacement risks so that we can you know see that ahead of time you go next slide The scope of work is essentially about a nine month scope. They've already started there may be like a month six weeks in And again, it's really documenting the current displacement issues in doing their research both desktop reason what I like to say is desktop research and then vetting it with local data and their working group and alongside additional engagement and then coming up with a series of recommendations and strategies alongside then this tracking tool to understand are these policies effective and how can we understand the risk of displacement ahead of time. So strategy two we're almost there. Strategy two is attracting a diverse housing stock within the city. So really looking at policies and programs. So let's see. Through this, so a couple of things. We've gone through a process of updating our future land use map, and I'm gonna reiterate this on another slide, but essentially we're looking at where can we increase density for housing? Where can we advocate for diversity of housing across our different zoning categories, across our different land use categories? How do we remove the barriers to development at the city? to develop those middle what's called a missing middle housing so it's your duplexes triplexes ad use quads whatever that may be where are those sorts of challenges for developing why are they hard to develop and is there an opportunity for you know having expedited reviews for certain housing types and affordable housing projects and so really looking at these sorts of tools to implement alongside you know are there specific geographic areas that we can target for implementation so that these tools aren't just blanketed citywide but can we be a little bit more strategic into testing them out before they are broader the other opportunity is looking at programs so you know looking at our landowners including ourselves so city-owned land where other opportunities for developing housing not that we have to be the landlord or the you know on the hook for the maintenance but are there programs or partnerships that we can create to really assess city on land for housing and affordable housing is their partnerships with school districts as we've seen these properties close and while they're nestled within neighborhoods is there an opportunity to keep them neighborhood amenities as their opportunity to have them shift into housing and you know where where are the opportunities for creating some financing in order to do this And lastly so looking at increasing housing production. So again I spoke to the future land use map but you know this was a part of a bigger process of updating the Envision El Paso comprehensive plan. So looking at our future land use map we identified those place types we presented that to you all as well and so really understanding how do we enable more of this diversity of housing and increased production through all of these policy frameworks that we have. You know, looking at the state housing legislature, as we've seen some of those policies come through in the past year, keeping on track with those and really being able to navigate them within our local context. We've been a part of a national housing supply accelerator, which has been a really great opportunity to help us inform the implementation of this, but it opens us up to funding. It opens us up to technical assistance, so that really decreases the cost to taxpayers. We look at infilling infill housing redevelopment incentives. So I talked a little bit about that as our focus group has helped us to navigate an improvement or update to the infill development incentive program. So some of the things that are coming out of that are geographic boundaries the sort of abatement percentages really categorizing them into maybe small and large scale projects and having expedited reviews for those. And then, you know, looking at financing opportunities, how to leverage certain partnerships such as with the Housing Finance Corporation and really building up our local supply of like small scale developers, both as a way for residents to build, you know, wealth if they want to be, you know, develop more on their land and to, you know, generate a pipeline of small scale developers. So to sum up we are going to work session on Monday to present this as an update and we will then take the full package of Envision El Paso of this housing strategy being part of it through a community open house process in August as well as our council adoption process. So people will have the chance to all of this documentation will be on our engagement site. That's a conveyor site and they'll have their opportunity to provide any further comment.

Thank you. Any questions? Yes.

Great presentation. I don't know if you can email us a copy because I really like to digest all this information. So in other words, we need to encourage more apartment development, especially on the east side, correct?

Oh because you saw the big number on the east side. Yeah I mean the big number on the east side is also because the geography is like a larger geography in that sub area. The great opportunity around those is like corridors are corridors. If you look back at our future land use map the encouragement that we're having there is develop those larger scale apartments along places where there is already a lot of activity along the transit oriented bus routes. So really to focus that walkability aspect as well.

but I would say the opportunity is kind of different in every single area so but yeah that would be one of them because I don't see a whole lot of properties that are sewn for apartments on the east side it seems to be the developers just develop residential but not apartment development so

Yeah I mean that's been the big question as we've gone through this process too is like why are people developing what they develop. And so you know a lot of the needs assessment plus the strategy frameworks come out. It's not only one thing and never is just one thing right. It's a slew of things which lend itself to being process oriented. So maybe like slow processes at the city city has more regulations around certain types of projects. versus others like single family um so just just different sorts of things have come out of that to understand like yeah why are people developing what they develop versus something else any other questions i'm waiting for one from you all right let me start i've been in a lot of city committees county committees school committees for the past 30 years

And I hate to say it, but nothing changes. Being one that I look at is a 70-30 burden. Other successful cities, towns, whatever, they have that 70-30 and they work on it. And when that starts to shift, that means we are making progress, okay? That is the main driver for me for the last 30 years, and that has not shifted one iota. We get a new administration, whether at the county, whether at the school district, whether at the city, and they're gonna work on it. It doesn't happen. It never happens. It never happens. We're losing our children. They grow up and they leave. They don't come back. They don't come back because there's no opportunities for them. There's no opportunities. Again, back to the 70-30. We get a manufacturer, we give them these great incentives, but that's not enough. The land where META is building right now was set aside back in the early 2000s so that we could bring in a big manufacturer. And the administrations, from then till now, tried, tried, tried, and nothing happened. So the other thing is that we don't work with our government entities as we should be. okay and I'll name a few I've been asking for a few years to get TxDOT to come and present to us as you're presenting they don't come I know that the city and TxDOT don't get along for whatever reason but they need to work that out your department is also the county has a department like yours okay so why are we spending our tax dollars for the city and for the county doing the same thing same thing with um economic development the county has a budget and i've told them guys let's merge as one Save us money, use your skills and their skills, and you know, maybe it'll work. Maybe that 70-30 will start to move, but egos prevail. I hate to say it, but it's true. You know, we don't work with our school districts as former school board trustee where we need the trades. We went to a four year college and forgot about the trades. And guess what's happening in the building trades and the metal trades and the plumbing trades and all the trades across. We don't have the people. So what do we do? we import them because we don't develop them so i think what we're missing as a region and i say when i say region i mean the city the county and the school districts is we need to get together all the leaders there and come out and form something and form something and not just for a year or two but forever because we're forgotten. Go to Austin, go to Dallas, go to Phoenix, go to Albuquerque. They all have good systems. El Paso, nada, nothing. I know we're isolated. And I'm sorry that I take this time, but man, I started this when I was in my 30s. I'm already mid 60s and it's still the same. The 70% burden on us, the homeowners, and the 30% on business, because there's no business. that's just my thoughts yeah no comment can't quit now though right no we can't quit now but you know what i gave you something we could start let's start working with the county i already talked to the county about them they blame the city now i'm sure the city is going to blame them You know, TxDOT, El Paso streets, they don't get along. I've tried to bring in the superintendents, different superintendents from the school district. You know, there's some things we can at least try.

Cool, thank you.

Anyone else?

You know what, I do have a quick question. Vaguely pertinent to some of the discussion we've been having. I'm just curious, on one of the earlier slides, there's mention of how, you know, I guess the number of jobs technically was measuring in El Paso has, you know, shot up and has consistently grown in a pretty impressive rate. while population has either stagnated or even declined. I'm just curious what the real-world implications of that are. I'm not sure you may or may not have this info ready to go, but are we talking about previously high unemployment rate falling, or are people working multiple jobs? I'm curious as to what that's actually measuring, because it doesn't seem to compute with my day-to-day observations of

of reality here right so i think the thing that it indicated to us was yeah why is there sort of a stagnation but this growth and looking back into the overcrowding issue so it's more lending itself to housing units available for if we're seeing you know job growth you would imagine there's a people number associated with that versus that population and so looking at that told us to look into something else overcrowding came out of that as to there's there's more people than some housing units can I guess best accommodate living together multiple families living together and so I think I'm I think I'm just I get where you're coming out where there's a growth happening but we see the flatline and so we're seeing that within people multiple families living in one housing unit versus there being a diversity of options for people then to that meet people's needs, whether they're at their first job at 16, 18, I mean, I guess I shouldn't say 16, but 18, 20, to a young professional in their 30s to then someone else in their 70s or 80s. So does that answer you? Because I know that that discrepancy looks a little different, but it's more so like, yeah, we're maybe not having that population growth, but this projection is showing us that something's off, and so why aren't they more in line with each other? And so looking at that overcrowding as an indicator.

Okay, thank you. So there were a bunch of options, right, for what you guys came up with in your study and what you're looking forward to. What are you personally most interested in moving forward and what do you think is gonna make the most difference?

Oh, personally, I think it's a little bit of everything because it's not just, I mean, that's my honest answer, it's not, It's not just one thing, it's multiple things. And so I think the way that we've identified it through process, policies, and programs, you need some sort of process improvements on the city side, whether that's building relationships and doing things like that, but also the way that we facilitate our permits and things like that well you also need some of those policy updates in order to enable the things that we're saying that we want to meet within this strategy because currently they're really difficult to do or they're really expensive to do and that's why we're not seeing them and then you need the programs you know essentially to support the gaps in between those two and so it's a big spectrum and I think our housing needs addresses that too where it's showing it's not just like one socioeconomic level that needs it, but it's across the board. And so I think that's why it kind of has that spectrum of policy program and process update. So I think it's more looking at things as a system and being holistic in an approach versus thinking that there's that one lever that's gonna change everything.

Is there one that you were like, wow, I didn't see that. I see what you're saying that, you know, you can't just add quads and you're like, wow, we fix it. Or you can't add like, you know, middle income apartments along one corridor of the East side. I totally see what you're saying of it's a system and there's not one lever to pull. I'm just saying you personally, was there one that you're very excited about that you're like,

i hope we really push forward on this one no i can't say there's one that i'm excited about i am very excited about to get this whole thing adopted that would be the one thing i'm excited about yeah go ahead

I want to see if you can explore this. We have about 20 schools that are shut down and that's about a thousand rooms that are vacant in our community. Is there any way you can implement a program to help us redevelop those schools into housing apartments.

Yeah that was definitely identified in one of the strategies. So looking at partnerships of land like current landowners in the school districts being one that has come up and since they're already nestled within neighborhoods it's like seems like a prime like a synergistic opportunity. And so I don't know exactly what that looks like. I think once we identify our prioritization of what we're implementing we dive in deeper into looking at the nuts and bolts of what that relationship looks like that partnership looks like how the agreements that look like in order to do that. if there's feasibility analysis around each one of them. But I definitely think it's an opportunity identified in this strategy. Our group already purchased scatter to be very interested in talking to you and see how we can work together on yeah, I know You know one of my colleagues has mentioned that for elementaries a lot of the classrooms are a great size for apartment unit and they usually have a bathroom already attached so you have the and sometimes I think they have like a sinking kind of kitchenette and so that conversion and some of those schools is is kind of like a prime opportunity as well lends itself to it but yeah so the cost is an issue obviously is there something we can do to to try to help the investors make this happen I don't know I don't know how to answer that financing but incentives Yeah, I think sure. There's opportunities for identifying programs based around this and money around it within the city. But I think what we discovered is there's also opportunity for partnerships through CDFIs. They're the alternative lending model and also the Housing Finance Corporation. there are these sorts of arms of financing their financing arms that are able to go like less traditional routes or they have access to money in different ways that like the city can or does so I think it's kind of a slew of all of them like if there's incentives and or partnerships so if there's someone I need to talk to please let me know yeah that would be my boss not me but I will let you know

I was wondering with the figures that you got on the employment and the housing, how did you address the military and like you have a spouse working somewhere but they live on base, how did you skew that?

Yeah, good question. I'm not sure if I could answer that directly. I'd have to look back to see, yeah.

because that might change a little bit of your statistics.

Yeah I know that I know it had come up through our process because even when we're assessing like past timelines there were certain moments like during Brock and things like that where where you could see the shifts in population and housing and things like that so I just don't want to misspeak to your question right now so I'd have to follow up.

I and I hadn't thought of this until you said it. There's a. like what used to be a school right on Mesa and Mesa Hills that.

Morehead?

Morehead, yeah, I couldn't think of the name. That was, sorry? That was turned into an animal shelter because of I think the asbestos, like they couldn't, the cost of remediation, and I know I don't mean to bring up cost again and ask you to fix it, but basically the remediation was just prohibitive and I imagine that for Polk is also shut down and I imagine just the remediation regardless of cost just turns into like at this point we should just build another apartment complex. So I personally would love to see you know, cut it into little quadrants and put, like, that's already a building that exists, so yeah, I don't know. That was just something I was thinking of, of like, that's the same reason that buildings downtown, as much as it would be amazing, like, there's already floors and there's, like, it's the asbestos, it's like, you know, the lead pipes, everything like that, so that was just my thought.

Like, what are the challenges we might not know yet? Yeah, yeah.

Anybody else?

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Are we still going to have the second presentation?

Okay. RT, can you pull that presentation? Good afternoon, Chair and members of the Commission. Alex Alejandro with Planning and Inspections. Item 6 on the agenda today is a presentation regarding planning determinations. In most cases, you guys are already familiar with subdivisions coming for you for approval, but it always starts with the planning determination in order to determine if the property needs an actual plan. Bear with me, just perfect. So a plot indetermination is a legal process that determines whether a piece of land or a proposed division of land requires a subdivision plot or meets local and state regulations. El Paso City Code defines a plot as a map or drawing that shows the exact layout of a proposed development into one or more lots, blocks, streets, easements, or other elements required by title. The primary goal for this application is to determine if the proposed subject property is ready for development. Most of these requests do come in from El Paso Water as they usually request a planning determination certificate in order to determine that the property is ready for development. When it comes to authority, the authority is given to us by Texas local government to 12 and El Paso city code title 19. This authority extends to the within city limits and outside of city limits throughout the city's extra territorial jurisdiction. Here we have two images. The first one is the northwest corner of El Paso. It's a very small area of extraterritorial jurisdiction, and the most popular one that everybody's familiar with is on the far east, which is the second image to the right. These are the two only areas that El Paso has jurisdiction when it comes to subdivision plots. What's required for the documentation in order to submit this application? Of course, it's a complete application that will be signed by the owner. It will identify the legal description of the property. We will request a copy of the plot or a survey of the property. And of course, a proof of ownership, which is commonly known as a warranty deed. Once we have a complete application, we'll have three possible determinations. The very first one is that a subdivision plat will, is not required. Second one, a subdivision plat will be required. And the last one, a subdivision replat is not required. So I'll go ahead and go over a couple of scenarios. The first one is these are examples where a subdivision plot is not required. This could be applicable to plotted or unplotted land. They're not very common, but that's something that, of course, will permit the use without having to go through a plot. First one is the use of existing cemeteries compliant with state and local regulations. Second one would be construction of agricultural accessory structures or related agricultural activities. And we have another one for the acquisition of land for the purpose of widening or extending the right of way or stormwater drainage infrastructure facilities. On the second slide, we also have exempt to the planning requirements, permits for repair or remodeling of an existing structure involving parking areas, driveways, fences, anything that doesn't include a structure and does not involve the additional square footage. We also have exempt to the regulations the land to be used for electric company substations as defined in El Paso Title 20. and also demolition permits or permits for removal of a structure within a parcel or track. These are the common scenarios where a subdivision plot would be required. The development of unplotted land, the construction of streets, the creation of a single track into smaller develop lots, and at any time that it's required by an existing ordinance. Finally, we have situations where a subdivision replat is not required. These are common scenarios where we're already dealing with plotted property and the proposed new development does not necessarily require a replat process. very first one of course is the sale of or inheritance gift of land by meets and bounds of Tracks upon which no improvements development subdivision or alteration is intended This one is very commonly used for the extraterritorial jurisdiction where the property owner is just trying to sell a piece of land and The next one, which is one of the most popular and common ones, is the split by needs and bounds. And that's within a plotted portion of what's defined a commercial unit development. Here we have an example. On the background you see an image of old, old plot. The reason for the purpose to use this particular plot is to show that even though you're dealing with plotted property from years ago, the code still allows you to split this property via meets and bounds. Once again, this is only applicable to properties owned for commercial use and industrial use. On the background, you see a copy of the plot. Highlighted in red is the entire lot. On the upper right-hand corner, you see the new layout of this lot. As you can see, the lot has been split into additional lots. And of course, our job here with planning is to verify that each lot has adequate access. We have this next applicable exception, which is the division of a legally recorded lot into two portions, and the combining of the portions with the adjacent lots on each side shall be allowed without replatting. Of course, a new lot line will become the new lot boundary for these lots, and of course, they do have to be in compliance with zoning ordinance. Here we have an example, on the background you see a copy of the plot. We have lots 27, 28, and 29, and in this case, lot 28 is being split into two portions. The two portions will be absorbed by the abiding owners, so lot 27 will absorb the bigger portion of 28, and of course, lot 29 will absorb the smaller portion. On the lower right-hand corner, you see the new layout showing only two parcels. One is bigger than the other. Why? Because the court does allow you to combine, and this is the only way that you would be able to absorb a portion within residential development. We also have the combination of two or more legally recorded lots into one parcel will not be required to be replanted into one lot, provided that they are joined either by a permanent structure or by improvements built over the property line. And of course, once again, they have to be in compliance with the zoning ordinance. Here we have on the background a copy of an older plot. As you can see, we have highlighted two lots. On the upper right-hand corner, we see the current layout of this combination of two lots. And once again, the code does allow you to combine as long as you are using complete lots. And that concludes my presentation. I'm here to answer any questions you may have.

So the one on Kern and Kansas the rules say that you don't have to replat if you're just splitting one lot in half or in whatever if you're splitting one lot and you don't have to replat if you're combining just two lots. So that's how they that's how they changed three lots.

Correct only one is for the combination of two complete lots The other one is the split of the middle lot and that split of course gets absorbed by your body So that's how they that's how they got around having to flat Because they just okay.

I like that.

That's funny Anyone else? Thank you. Mr. Alejandro. Yes.

We've seen these in the last few years, correct, that they've come before us. I think the one in Kern, that came before us, right?

Definitely, the one in Kern did not come. But one thing I can definitely tell you, there are times that these come through you. The reason behind it, I really can't give you a specific. In most cases, when I talk to the developers, a lot of times it's recommendations through their lawyers. They prefer to go through an actual replat process than combine it or split it via meets and bounds. But they do have the option, of course. Of course, split by meets and bounds, it's an easier process. But it's ultimately the decision of the developer.

So the purpose of requiring a plat versus meets and bounds for residential is just because it's cleaner for everybody to have an actual map to point out and say, hey, these are the lines?

Correct.

OK. So it's not because there's any sort of reasonable difference?

No, not at all.

Yeah, if I can Kevin Smith for the record. So again, I appreciate Alex for putting together. We want to give you a little background because not every property that gets developed has to come through the subdivision process, but it has to verify if it meets one of those exceptions. And there's some where the property owner just wants a clean title, where sometimes people get a little funny if it's a lot and a portion of a lot. You're like, something's going on there. Even though it may be legitimate, I think Mr. Borrego, like you mentioned some of the items, I think some in the central area, town have been some where for some reason it got split in a unique configuration and then so that's why sometimes it does have to go through the replat and sometimes a prop owner just wants a clean title you know technically it meets all our requirements and they have that letter from us that says yes you do not need a replat or subdivide but they often just for for their comfort level just are like I just want to clean up this property in their eyes is often future buyers may have a little hesitation when they see a lot and a portion of a lot and that that that may be one of the reasons why. But there's a lot that goes on to behind the scenes to make sure, again, a subdivision, the very basics is to divide the land and to make sure there's proper infrastructure in place. And so some of the ones that was talked about were like two complete residential lots being divided into one. You're technically having less density there by going from two lots to one. It would still be for like say a single-family home And at some point it did go through the subdivision process but This we just want to give you a little bit of background on the subdivision process some of the items that you don't see a lot of properties that you do see have gone through a planning determination determined and It often it comes back that says yes, you do need to subdivide the property in accordance with our local regulations

Thank you. Any other questions? I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Anything else today? No? All right. One more motion.

Move to adjourn. Second.

Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Thank you all. Have a great day.