California Identification Remote Access Network - Regular Meeting

We are isolating the meeting today. Oh no.

Sorry to interrupt. Well, thank you, Madam Vice President.

We'll call it to order, and we'll start with a roll call. Commissioner Allen is absent. Commissioner Gardner?

Here.

Commissioner Robinson? Here. Commissioner Byrne?

Here.

Commissioner Davies? Here. Commissioner Weddle? Here. Commissioner Swartzback?

Here.

Okay, thank you. And now can we adopt the agenda and approval of the consent calendar? Do I have a motion?

I have a motion.

I have a second. Second. And public comment? I'm going to take public comment. Now taking public comment on the consent calendar, each speaker will have three minutes to address the commission. We will begin with comments from individuals present in the meeting room, followed by those participating in the Zoom. If you're joining via Zoom, please ensure you unmute yourself when called upon. If you're joining by phone, press star nine to raise your hand. If you're on Zoom, use the raise hand feature to indicate you're interested in speaking. We ask that you voluntarily state your name for the record before beginning your comments. Anyone in the room? There's no public comment.

And now we do have two presentations that we are hearing today.

Oh, excuse me. We need to take a vote on the motion to adopt the consent calendar. First, I'm leaving the meeting. And all of you just say aye. Aye. All opposed.

All opposed.

The motion passed. Okay, and we have two presentations. You can ask that we keep it to 10 to 15 minutes, otherwise we will not be able to get through the whole calendar. The first one is the American River Conservancy.

Hi everyone, my name is Elaine Hattie-Leachy, I'm ARC's Executive Director. And I am just honored that I'm able to present to you today and thank you for having me. I'll just kind of really briefly do an overview about our mission. We are your local land trust. We have been around since 1989 and our mission is really focused on land conservation, land stewardship, and outdoor education in Colorado County and mostly And on the western slope, we will really focus on the upper American River watershed and the upper Cosumnes River watersheds.

Next slide. Get it so it's bigger for you.

So my presentation is really going to focus on our conservation and stewardship, that part of our mission, and kind of what we do day to day, but also kind of big picture. strategy for us as an organization. We recently updated our strategic contribution plan and adopted it this year. So I'm going to kind of explain a little bit about what that is, but first kind of set the stage with some information about our various programs, our kind of three pillars of our mission, which are watershed conservation, land stewardship, and environmental education. And next slide. Since 1989, we've protected about 31,000 acres of wildlife habitat, forest habitats, land along the river, American River and Kissimmee River. And we've also provided as part of that on those lands over 42 miles of recreational trails that are open to the public. And so those trails were put in in partnership with federal and state public agencies, including Forest Service, BLM, and state parks. And then we've also, over the years, delivered environmental education programs and outdoor education programs to over 36,000 people of all ages. I was just talking to Commissioner Byrne about our nature camp, and he was so gracious and helped us with some fishing programs as part of our summer nature camp this year. So that's all part of our education program. And then we also do habitat restoration and enhancement projects. We've restored and enhanced or improved over 2,500 acres of habitats. And that includes lands that we treat for fields reduction and ecosystem forest, ecological forest management. And we kind of have this broad view of conservation when I'm talking about our kind of strategic conservation plan. We define conservation as everything from actively acquiring and protecting land to actually doing stewardship and land management. That is all part and parcel of conservation. It also, conservation can also encompass education, outreach, teaching people and connecting people So land acquisition, real briefly, the way we do that is through working with willing landowners. And we do that through full fee title acquisition and conservation easement acquisition. And those are our primary conservation tools for land conservation. And then, of course, long-term stewardship and land management is sort of the forever part of what we do as a conservancy. And kind of an interesting fact is that land trusts are the only organizations in the nonprofit sphere that promise to do something forever. Promise to carry out our mission, whatever, in perpetuity. So we're really unique in that way. It's also quite, it can be a lot of work taking care of, right now we own 15,000 acres. So we have a legal responsibility to manage that land. And so it's expensive. That's an understatement. So in our work, our conservation work is really focused on promoting biological diversity and also climate resilience. So next slide. Just some beautiful pictures. These are all of the, these two on the left are the South Fork American River and this one here is the mainstay on Cosumnes River at Eldorado Ranch. I should also mention that in 2025, ARC achieved land trust accreditation, which is kind of a sealed stamp of approval for land trusts. We have to go through a rigorous audit process through the Land Trust Accreditation Commission, which is related to Land Trust Alliance, the nationwide accreditation. And as a result, we are now an accredited land trust, and it just really means we meet certain standards and practices, and that they reviewed our governance, our stewardship, our transaction, and all of our financial records. An accredited land trust. I want to talk a little bit about our vision, our conservation vision and action plan. I'm going to call it the CVAP for short now because that's a mouthful. The last time we updated our conservation plan was in 2010. And so 15 years is a long time to go without having an updated plan. And we were successful at getting a grant from the California Council of Land Trusts through the Wildlife Conservation Board to update our conservation vision and action plan. And this was a process that engaged our whole entire staff and board. We also interviewed stakeholders from outside of our organization. So wildlife biologists from CDFW, partners at the US Forest Service, and other stakeholders that we work with on a regular basis to really get their perspective on where we should be protecting lands in our watersheds. We also incorporated indigenous partnerships and we've talked to our tribal partners. And really this new strategic plan for conservation really incorporates a lot of indigenous viewpoints that we wanted to kind of capture. There's also more in this plan about climate change and climate resilience, as well as a lot more about working lands and agricultural lands. So we wanted to identify goals that were you know, big picture inspiring goals, but also things that were attainable. Next slide. Also, this plan is, I think there was a desire to, the timing for this update kind of coincides with some new kind of statewide strategies that have come to light in the last few years, like the Pathway to 3030. State of California has that plan that most funding agencies that are providing grants for land acquisitions are focused on this 30 by 30 goal at the state level. And so our conservation vision and action plan is consistent with that 30 by 30 strategy in that it aims to protect and restore biodiversity, expand access to nature, and then also mitigate and build resilience to climate change. We also mentioned in the conservation vision and actual plan consistency with El Dorado County's general plan. So, you know, making sure that when we're evaluating projects or parcels that we may want to acquire, that we're reviewing relevant zoning and land use designation. We're making those decisions, you know, that's kind of one of many levels or steps in that selection, the project selection process.

Next slide.

I wanted to provide this map. It's really hard to see on the screen here, but I think you have copies of it in front of you. Just to kind of put it in perspective of these two watersheds that we work in, two very different watersheds. The American River watershed is much bigger than the Cosumnes River watershed. The American is much more regulated. There's dams and hydro. facilities on the American River watershed on many of the tributaries. And then on the Cosumnes River, it's largely free flowing and has kind of more of this natural flow regime. And so we've been focused on protecting lands in both of those watersheds now. Up here is the American River Headwaters Restoration Project, part of the French Meadows. This is in Placer County. We treated just over 2,000 acres of forest lands for fields reduction and ecological forest management. We're right now in progress with the Zofar Restoration Project, which is there's various properties that we're working on that are currently owned and managed by American River Conservancy. So we're getting some more fields reduction projects through a grant from CAL FIRE. And then we're also working on a restoration project up at Lake Springs Meadow, which is the headwaters of the North Park on this river. So doing process-based restoration and feature dam analog installation. And then I put on here the Eldorado Ranch Trailhead because that is another project that we're hoping to move forward in the next month or so. We have a conditional use permit application out, and that will be heard. on july 15th for approvals so that we can get started on building a trailhead and facilitating public access to the future state wildlife area which will be called el dorado ranch state wildlife area next slide um so this is kind of this infographic showing how we make decisions at our organization about what we decide to project what lands we try to acquire And there's various criteria that we look at and it's not always a one size fits all for every single project. Some projects are really focused on the endangered species habitat. Others may be focused on recreational access or agricultural land protection. A lot of that, like the conservation values part, like what are we trying to protect? can depend on what funding source we're looking at for acquisition. For example, the Natural Resources Conservation Service, NRCS, Farm and Ranch Land, their ACEF ALE program focuses just on working lands, agricultural lands. And so usually we're not, we're just focusing on the working lands for those grant proposals and those projects. But really we're trying to fold in together these conservation values, making sure they're touching on at least one or more of those conservation values in one or more of these focal landscapes. And focal landscapes can overlap. We can have oak woodlands and working lands in the same area.

They're not mutually exclusive.

And then, again, how we do it is through acquisition.

So fee and easement acquisitions, and then also through land stewardship partnerships with other agencies that may own or steward land.

But again, I think you know, you probably know all this, but watershed conservation is a public benefit, even if there isn't necessarily public access. These lands that we're protecting are maintaining clean air and water. They're protecting our green infrastructure of our watersheds. and providing wildlife habitat connectivity. Many of the projects that we're working on are preserving private land conservation, so they're not even going to be public lands. They're staying in private ownership, but we're putting a conservation easement, say, on a ranch so that those landowners can continue their ranching activities and agricultural producers can continue that way of life. Also, we've been protecting cultural and historic resources since the beginning. I mean, most of the lands that we protect near the river have some sort of cultural resource, whether it's tribal cultural resources or historic resources, dating back to the gold rush. But really, it's because this is our home, and we really love this place that we call home. Next slide. But some of our most important partners out there are landowners. We have really great relationships with our landowners. They're all rolling sellers. We're working with them on an acquisition project. Many of them are extremely patient people. It can take over two years sometimes to get a project closed from beginning to end. So these people are always just the most gracious and kind. partners to work with. We also work with a lot of different state and federal agency funders. Some of the biggest, some of our go-to funders tend to be Wildlife Conservation Board, Natural Resources Agency, Department of Conservation recently with SELC funding. And then at the federal level, a lot of partnerships with BLM in the past and also the US Forest Service. And then lots of other non-governmental organizations that we've worked with, including the Nature Conservancy and the Trust for Public Land and Tribal Partners. There's a new tribal land trust in the county called Kusumne Culture and Waterways. We have worked with them. This year was our first ancestral land return.

We worked with the El Dorado Band of Miwok Tribe through their tribal land trust.

And yeah, so we, And we can't do this in a vacuum. We have to work with our partners. And I should mention, El Dorado County has been a huge partner from the beginning. And we have actually worked with the county to use mitigation funding for, so in lieu fees for Pine Hill Preserve acquisitions, as well as overland mitigation.

Next slide.

I just wanted to touch really briefly on El Dorado Ranch. How many of you have been out there? I know a while back we did a tour of the commission. Right. So this property is one of the single largest ownership, private ownerships in El Dorado County. And we are currently, I would say about 80% of the way through acquisition of the entire 7,000 acre ranch. So we have a contract in place to close escrow on not the last phase, but almost the last phase. We have funding lined up to purchase 2,000 acres, and this will eventually become the first state wildlife area in El Dorado County. And so we're working very closely with region, not region two anymore, north central region.

We're different, something like that.

The California Department of Fish and Wildlife, this is a priority for them. And so as such, we're working very closely with Wildlife Conservation Board to direct funding for this project.

And also CDFW is getting funding to create a land management plan for the property. And we're working very closely with them facilitating public access to the trailhead along 49

We're also going to be closing escrow very soon on another 26 acre parcel right at the bridge at the Cosumnes River on the El Dorado County side. A little puzzle piece that we need to also preserve some river access and would create a better trail corridor for access to the river. So a lot of really beautiful landscapes out there. 7,000 acres is a lot of property, but we're really excited about the prospect of that being open to the public. I don't have any dates yet. I'm going to not find out.

Who are your landowner partners?

So our landowner partner with us is Angelos Akopoulos, aka Team Properties.

So we've been working with him and his staff since 2010. to acquire the 7,000 acres here. So it was, at one point in time, a planned development.

It was owned by Peter McEwen back in the 90s. That development got shut down. It was then acquired by Angelos Acropolis. He has held onto it for quite a while, but we have been working with him to . Next slide. Just a few quick Quick thoughts about stewardship, because I mentioned some of our fuels projects that we're working on. This is some photos of our South Fork American River restoration project. These are on ARC lands. They are all adjacent to other public lands, like Bureau of Reclamation, BLM, and then also adjacent to private land. We are working with various private contractors under a CAL FIRE grant to do fields treatments and also do some pile burning and prescribed fire out on the land. And if you ever want to go take a tour, we'd be happy to show you what we're doing out there. But it's going really well. Next slide. Just a few photos, too, here of the Lake Springs Meadow Restoration Project. That site is actually owned by the Department of Fish and Wildlife, and so we're partnering with CDFW on this restoration project. And we've got some grants from the Wildlife Conservation Board, and so the Colorado Water Agency provided some grant funding for that, and we're our lead agency for CEQA. Next slide. On ending trails, recreation is a big part of what we do along South Lake American River. That's how we got our start as a land trust was protecting land along South Lake American River, which is a huge recreation corridor for boaters and now for hikers and mountain bikers and equestrians.

So a really important piece of our mission as well.

I just wanted to show you, this is a little bit of a closer up view of where the trail had to go actually. should have changed this. Yeah, we actually had to acquire this parcel up here, but we moved the trailhead site. It's now moved up to this parcel. Apologies.

We want an updated map.

Lots of trails out here. We've been building, there's over, I think, over eight miles of trails out here at Salmon Falls Ranch and Acorn Creek that are accessible through the Acorn Creek Trailhead over here. Those also connect up with the South Fork-American River Trail.

It's mostly owned and managed by Bureau of Land Management. They also connect up with the Darrington Trail, which goes around Insula-Hulson Lake area.

And then El Dorado Ranch here is showing the initial phase of trails. The whole ranch will be able to be traversed with trails.

There's lots and lots of ranch roads out here that will be converted to trails, but they primary public access point that we're developing now. It will be along Highway 40. That's the only public right of way.

Do you still have Spivey Pond?

We don't manage Spivey Pond. That's BLM.

Okay.

Yeah. So we did acquire that from the private landowner and transferred it over to BLM. But I do communicate with their staff. I don't do frog surveys anymore.

I wish. Okay.

So yeah, I just wanted to open it up if there's any questions that you might have about what I presented.

Sorry, we're running out of time. Did you get any financial support from the tribes?

No. No. Actually, that's not true. We did get a small grant maybe five years ago from the United Auburn Indian Community to do tribal tending and gathering garden at Wakilatsu Farm.

But, you know, that was on the order of $5,000.

I have two real quick questions. You said you have no time frame on the public access to the other land?

So we first have to finish the trailhead, and then the property has to be transferred to California Department of Fish and Wildlife before we can have, like, day-use public access and

The other question is, who do we talk to about establishing this tour that you recommended?

Oh, you can talk to me, and then I'll put you in touch with our forest restoration project manager, and she'd love to talk to her.

Okay, appreciate it.

Hi, Lee.

How are you? Thank you for this. I think I'm sorry I was late. A couple things. One is, I think, extremely timely. A lot of conversations go on in the county about conservation. We've talked. I think even in, I'm retiring on Friday, But even as much as I can, I will be pushing for a more robust conservation easement program on the county side because right now we have a voluntary one that nobody's ever used. We really need a mandatory one as you look at the push down there on the metro area side. So love your program and what you're doing. Exciting. It would be exciting to be able to even build more on it. A couple The other thing I had was Ag Department. I know you know we do not just, we'd be more than happy to come out and do some surveys. And no charge to you. It's part of our grant work. And you just have to reach out to the department. Okay, great. We can come out and do that and do treatments or anything that needs to happen.

Thanks.

We should connect about that. Yeah, because we went and looked at, like, for example, I'll tell you, we went to Valley. We went out and looked at that, which if there had been a conservation easement program way back when, maybe that's where that would be now. But, but, problems forage out there that we found that we didn't know about. So, you know, the waterways all kind of.

Yeah. Yeah. They don't look at property.

Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. So I don't think we need public comment. So we'll go ahead and move forward with the Mountain Lion Foundation.

Sure. Well, I think it's a tough act to follow. That was a great presentation. I'm involved in a lot of easement situations in Utah. You're obviously going to be there. So I'm John Ziegler. I'm the chairman of the board of the Mountain Lion Foundation. And we very much appreciate our opportunity to visit with you all today. First, let me introduce Byron Weckworth, who's our Chief Conservation Officer. And my name is Dr. Byron Weckworth. Why don't you say a couple words, Byron?

Yeah, no, I joined Mountain Foundation as part of its reset under John's leadership of the board in November.

A new executive director that myself hired to essentially come in and help redevelop, rebuild the organization from strategy up. And so we're in the process of that.

One of the very first things we heard of early on was Colorado County and the issues with increased line conflict here, and that being a hot spot of a place that could use some attention to help.

So, I mean, my background is a wildlife biologist, PhD scientist, but over a decade of working with communities globally to help reduce carnivore-related conflict. of bringing that experience along with my science background to try to help design, develop programs to help us do that, if not mine.

But our trip here, which John will probably get into, is really the information gathering, meeting people, brainstorming and sorting out what's the role that we play, how can we partner, what can we learn from everyone who's been experiencing these things on the ground in different ways.

Thanks, Byron. Appreciate that. So as Byron alluded to, Whether you guys know it or not, the L.A. Foundation has been around for four years. It was originally founded in part because we wanted to get rid of or not Gavin Newsom's father at this point in the days. We've been around for four years or so. I personally am a cardiothoracic intensivist working out of Salt Lake City, passionate about conservation in general. I've been a hunter in the past. I currently don't hunt. I'm on the Advisory Council, Regional Advisory Council for Wildlife Works in the state of Utah. What did you guys realize or not? California is about as good as it gets in the Western U.S. for that matter. Utah is about as bad as it gets. So I understand how the world works. Some of my discussions, when we have these Advisory Council meetings for the Wildlife Works in the state of Utah, They're taped and they're available online. So folks from the Matline Foundation had seen video of my presentation, my discussion as a participant in these advisory councils. And they said, this is a guy who seems to be fairly articulate. Well, I don't claim to be articulate, okay? I can babble at the best level. I love it. And, you know, can sort of understand, would you like to be on our board? And I said, well, you know, maybe. Let me kick the tires. Looked at the organization and said, you guys haven't done squat for a number of years. And your reputation ain't great. If you bring me on board, you've got to give me the authority to make some change. And they found out about it and said, sure, come on in. So the player moved to the entire staff at the same point in time where he resigned. And then some of the board members would move over to advisory positions or retire. And brought in, fortunately, Byron and a woman named Ellen O'Connell. If you happen to have any interest and want to look up Ellen, Ellen O'Connell, phenomenally experienced conservation nonprofit director, high level. Ellen Churchill O'Connell. Last name is O. and an ELL. Very talented one. And with that re-staffing and recruitment of very solid board members, I ask you guys to take a look at our website. You can see which is about to be finished. You can see who the board members are and the advisory We are collaborative, cooperative, eager to work with wildlife agencies. I had the pleasure of meeting Dred Kilgore and Chris Stutes yesterday. We've been talking with the sheriffs in Leipzig and a number of other people. Talked with a number of sheriffs throughout these mountain line areas. We get the fact that the Brooks Kidd tragic situation Alderaan County's ground zero in California. And we are offering our assistance in whatever way the agencies and law enforcement and you folks would allow us to help and figure out a solution to what is a tough problem. We want to try to figure out a way, whether it's through public education or coming up with other methods of non-neutral insurance. To keep lions from getting shot. We understand lions are going to get shot because some lions are just bad actors that don't catch on. I don't think the Mountain Lion Foundation recognizes that. I do. Not only am I on the advisory board to the advisory council of the Wildlife Board of the state of Utah, I'm also on the advisory board for the Summit County Sheriff for the last 15 years. I know all the deputies. I understand what they put up with on a daily basis. I get it. And we're a rural county. A lot of Cougars are counties there. So we're here to learn from you all. Tell us what your experience is. We're somewhat time limited here, I understand. But we're not here to preach. We're not here to Get on a soapbox. That's why we didn't bring a PowerPoint, although we were humiliated by Lena. But, you know, if any of you don't mind speaking up, tell us your experiences and what your thoughts are regarding what we can do to help and maybe to mitigate some of the conflict and anxiety going on in the county regarding the map lines. We get the map lines. There may be more map lines in overall county than elsewhere in the state, other counties in the state. We understand that. That's why we're hopefully going to be able to put some type of program in place here with CDFW's buy-in, and with law enforcement buy-in, and we've had extensive conversations with the University of California, GIBS, Cardboard Project, senior faculty, as well as current faculty. I think we're on to something. I think we're going to be able to put something together that makes sense and we'll see, kick the tires in all our tanks, see if it works. And if it doesn't, then somehow. We're just here as a resource to help. And we'd love to hear any input, any comments. It's refreshing to hear that you understand that there are bad actors.

I think we found that out with wolves. They've only been around for less than 10 years, 20. I stopped by to visit a client that was burned down during the Caldor fire yesterday. And they raised a couple of calves. And they had a lion kill the calf the other day.

Did they report it? Did they report it? I've had no calf reports ever. Okay.

How often do you guys hear of depredation if that's important.

So do you understand, did Jeff or Morgan let you know how it works in El Dorado County? We have, my department has two wildlife trappers. Jeff only deals with a mountain lion issue if it's a public health or human safety issue. If it is a depredation issue, it comes through us. A lot of people will call John, one of my trappers, directly. But We're the ones who get the calls. I think if you reference my PowerPoint, you've seen it. And in 2019, things changed. Throughout the years, we haven't had problems. I've been here for close to 24 years. I lived here for 26. And my kids knew, you put your goats away at night, you were cool. In the daytime, they were always that. Because I was at work, they were at school, no problems. But things changed around 2019. And And there's probably a lot of variables that fit into that.

Is one of those related to the fires?

I think the fire added into it, but it also has administration change that really wanted no mountain lions to be euthanized.

What administration level are you talking about?

Governor.

Governor, okay.

I say things out loud that other people won't, so bear with me. Well, I like your style. That's good. So... We used to manage them, and if you looked at my PowerPoint, you'll see it went like this. We'd have not that many cats getting depredation permits for them, lethal ones, and then the depredations would go up so the population was rising, and then we'd take a few more cats, and then it would go back down. And it did this until around 2019. At that time, there was a switch because of the administration change in the policy of CDFW. We had this whole thing about two strikes on the same parcel within 11 days. So you'll see that the depredations of mountain lions went next to nil in 2019, 2020. And so instead of having this thing that goes like this, well, we're managing the population. Nobody wants to get rid of mountain lions. I mean, that's part of why we live here. But you would see I went from losing roughly 30 animals a year. That's on average. People knew that. That was going to happen. to 200 in 2024, another 200, and it's like 200, 250. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but in both of those years, and we're still on track for that again this year, because our populations are out of whack now. Our bear populations are out of whack too. And so a mountain lion takes something and then the bears take it from them and then it happens again. I think that we've, I'm quite honestly in the three and a half, Almost four years that I've been the Ag Commissioner, but I've been with the county department for close to 24 years. We've seen a change. CDFW has really been working with us. And if people are taking care of their animals, putting them away, and Bob can speak directly to this, if they're doing their job and the cat's still getting in, then we have an issue.

Or if the cat's been... Yeah, your point's extremely well taken. I understand the deputations are picking up.

Did you guys talk to the researchers at all that did the research project here, the PhD?

You're talking about Julie Young? Yeah, Julie's on our advisory committee.

And so, you know, they had done a lot of data, a lot of work with different deterrents that didn't really... Yeah, we're trying to...

I don't know Fernando's last name.

Nahara. Nahara.

Nahara. Great young vet over at UC Davis. And they're looking at all kinds of very interesting stuff regarding what deterrents that they haven't thought of or put in place yet might be effective. But, you know, it's a tough problem, man. We recognize that some of the solutions in... Cases may be unpleasant to a lot of people. And as a chairman of the board of the Mountain Lion Foundation, eager to make the Mountain Lion Foundation actually be a functional, effective organization, I recognize that. And we're going to piss some people off who've been longtime supporters of the Mountain Lion Foundation because they can't believe that we would ever support a program that either aggressively hazes animals or actually acknowledges that some animals are best when we shot

I wish that this had been the case when the bill came through to have the hazing program in place.

Yeah, I've asked Bill Gaines. Yeah, I think I got the name right.

Bill Gaines, his lobbyist.

Yeah, I asked him to put Alvarado Gil and her successor in touch with me. We talked to him, and we're contemplating the possibility.

If you supported it, that's what I told Jeff this morning. That's where we're going. if legislatively you support some change, I think that'll make a huge difference.

We're, we're certainly, you know, we need to work out the details, but I can see that being a possibility. Okay. And I think that would help.

I mean, when mountain lions aren't afraid of dogs, aren't afraid. I mean, we're having dogs, horses, my kids raised emus. If you don't believe in dinosaurs and you haven't seen their claws and they're killing emus.

I mean, I have a personal experience with emus. Okay. Again, I've got some cousins who have large ranches up in Santa Barbara County, up in Los Alamos. And they, one of their wives is an animal, and she's got a human. They're beasts, and there's no question. But I hear you loud and clear. We've heard a lot about you. I'm sorry that you're out the door Friday. I wish you a happy retirement. Thank you. And I hope that the person who replaces you will get a I'll sign out from you that says Matlab Foundation are enlightened and they understand the reality of the situation. Think you can do that?

Well, I think we'll need some more research.

We're eager to help with the research.

We get it. I'd love to see you guys sponsor research, help with research, help with legislative policy. I think those are the important things. Right now in El Dorado County, things are kind of leveling out. From what perspective? I mean, when I first became Ag Commissioner, Bob can tell you this too, it was a nightmare there with the mountain lions and CDFW and us not getting along and things not working. I think that the people, we don't get as many calls as we used to. People are starting to really understand that they need to do their job and lock their animals up and

I hope so, because as much as some people either economically can't do it or just don't feel that they're up to putting appropriate safeguards in place, it's part of the discussion. And it may not be a comfortable discussion for some people, but it's part of the education process. And I mean, that's the reality of the situation.

Do you think it's as bad as it used to be? And I don't know, Rob, do you have any thoughts?

I don't. I'll leave those comments for my chain of command.

So I think that what I hear from our trappers is when they go out on a call, a daytime thing is the problem, and that's where the mountain lions aren't afraid of anything, and I think a hazing program would be very helpful.

Yeah, I hope so. Again, understand where I'm coming from is the driving force behind organizational transformation and culture change. Culture change is a big deal. The bigger the organization, the harder it is to put in place. Mountain Lion Foundation is modest size, so we're doing it.

I think this is some great conversation. As Pat was pointing out, we're not supposed to have dialogue here. It's just supposed to be questions. If you have your business card, could you pass it off and maybe take this offline?

Could you guys write an informational presentation? Your point is well taken.

I'm sorry about that. No, it's really important stuff. I would like for Commissioner Schwarzbach to perhaps give his perspective on kinds of research that would really add value to our understanding of this issue and that would provide a scientific basis for the Board of Supervisors to make conversations or to make comment to the people who are running the show on mountain lion scale?

Well, as you know, Pat, I think we need to have a better handle on lion population demographics, the trends in the population, how lions are moving, predictive models that show hot zones of conflict, tracking individual lions that rather than shooting every lion that eats a goat, maybe putting a collar on them, learning what we can from these lions, how they move around. The issue of habituation, where lions are clearly not afraid of people, increases the potential for a human to lie in contact. The other issue is food conditioning of lions with with lions being conditioned to eat domestic animals that are readily available. We have a large education issue to do with our livestock owners. And so we need to be more aggressive with that, I think. But I would like to see a truly scientific effort that harnessed all of the potential collaborators in this county that we have with the county trappers, UC Davis, perhaps Julie Young again, coming back to the county with another graduate student, the RCD providing maybe some in-kind support as well. I think we could get a good project going But it's not inexpensive. It's not a quick solution. It's a long-term approach. But I see as the threat is that is that for conservation to be effective, it has to have support in rural counties where lion densities are high. If it only has support in locations where lion densities are low, that's not a good thing. And so the goodwill that's been built up between the county and CDFW in the last two years is really a great start. And CDFW is actually... very supportive of this concept of doing research in El Dorado County and management, more intensive management, hands-on with Lions, but they don't have the resources to really do it on their own. But they would be a support.

As we mentioned, this is the hot spot in California. There's a few others. I've talked to a number of other sheriffs in other counties. I understand the degree of the problem and their concerns. When they're elected officials, they've got constituents that are anxious. I get it. I understand how it works. So we're eager to help. We're eager to, as an organization with some degree of recognition on a national basis, perhaps we can attract some sponsors of some studies and get some bona fide academics involved.

I want to thank you guys for coming all the way from Montana and Utah for our 15 minute presentation. Yeah. Really appreciate the other.

Yeah. I appreciate that. I got just, I know you guys are short time, but I was recruited to do a adult cardiothoracic congenital cardiac practice outside of Pittsburgh, which we had a site down in Morgantown, West Virginia. So I went out there and I'm working there for a couple of years and, the first day that I started, I walked into the OR and all the nurses and the techs and stuff look at me and it goes, so you're the guy. And I look at him and I go, what do you mean? You're the guy they recruited to be the cardiac anesthesia chief. And I'm like, yeah, I guess I am. And they go, where are you from? And I just cut to the chase and said, give him the whole itinerary. I said, I'm from Utah. And all these folks in West Virginia started laughing. And I sort of smile and I'm like, okay, guys, what's so funny? And they go, well, we're from West Virginia. There's not a lot of places we make fun of, but Utah's one. Utah ain't so backward, but I'll tell you, I understand how politics works. Whoever said before it's a legislative issue? 100%. 100%. 95% of the citizens of Utah are pissed off at the way things are going on regarding wildlife management in the state. I guarantee it. But the squeaky 5% stakeholders, they get the legislators of the year and they push through. And it's a horrendous situation for wildlife in general in the state of Utah. So it's a legislated process that needs to be addressed, not the DWR.

I'll just say what's happening in Utah is that the state is undergoing a lion extermination program, which they've exempted from public comment by calling it research.

Really? Yes.

That's horrendous. Yes. That's the summary.

In May of 2023, they put in a law, a HB 469, basically removes all DWR oversight. Any Any citizen in the state of Utah without a permit can kill as many lions as they want in any manner that they want. Okay?

They're deploying snares throughout the backcountry.

And that's been going on for three years now. And then they, last year, they put this research study in effect, which one of the academic centers sponsoring it is BYU. I don't know if you know this or not, but the mascot of BYU is the cougar. Okay? And this is literally... So, Eldorado High School as well. The intention is to literally, and it says this clearly, eradicate 100% of the cougars and six of the 30 deer units in the state of Utah to see the effect on mule deer. And to make matters worse, their objective for mule deer, the objective for mule deer in the state of Utah, there's currently 295, get me out of soapbox, it just pisses me off, that the The objective, quote, objective in the state of Utah is for 404,000 mule deer.

No wonder you want to work in Alberta County.

They haven't had 400,000 mule deer in the state of Utah in 40 years. It ain't ever going to happen. You can put a breeding program in place, it ain't going to happen. That's the legislative quagmire that we find ourselves in in Utah. That's not your problem.

No, and I think for El Dorado County, and this is the last thing that I will say, is that I think you could help El Dorado County appreciably by working with CDFW. Their resources are just abysmal for what they need to do. They need more human wildlife, but by working with them to help with the legislative issues and the research that nobody could have said better than you did. Because I think that's really what we need.

Yeah, I understand. I've been in touch with the newly recently appointed director to tell. And we talked to the assistant director, director Kilgore. And we had a great conversation with her and Chris Stutes yesterday.

If we want to continue this conversation, I think as vice chair, you might have this power. If you want to continue this, I can make a subcommittee. no more than three of us to continue the conversation with you offline.

We would love to. We can do it virtually, of course. Steve has a buyer in my email and cell phone. We'd love to hear from him. We've got to figure something out.

We appreciate you guys coming in, sharing it. We love the way you guys are taking it. I know you're working on it at stores, Brock, and it actually gives us, a great option for us to move into our next agenda item, because it is an agenda item about mountain biking.

I've got to ask about the gift-wrapped boxes there. It was hard for us. Oh, boy. That's great. So...

I've been trying to, as you guys know, bootstrap.

The agenda item is number five. Moving on to agenda item 261054.

Okay. So Commissioner Weddle and I were talking about Lyons, and I was relating to him conversations I've had with a number of experts around the state. There are a number of places in the state where communities have, with experts, formed more intensive management research efforts. The North Bay Living with Lions program is an example. The Santa Cruz Mountains PUMA project is an example. Often there's an academic involved, there's a scientist involved, there's a outreach, public relations, websites. CDFW is a collaborator, authorizer of these projects. And Santa Monica Mountains is another example, but it's more of a conservation for a decrepit population effort to sustain them with with habitat linkages and understand the linkage needs. But the other two examples are more in conflict areas where lions are more abundant. And there is this ex-urban habitat edge that lions are in with potential interaction with humans. And we've laid the groundwork with with you guys about telemetry, the advances in telemetry, what can be done in telemetry today that couldn't even be done 10 years ago. The potential is huge. We have a lot of resources. So I have, in talking with Commissioner Weddle, Pat suggested maybe we should get all these experts that you're talking to together to consider the uniqueness of El Dorado County. and present our information on our situation and run it through these experts for ideas of how to respond uh as a community and frankly what i'm trying to do is bootstrap this program from from with almost no resources to to get something going and it's going to take it's going to take some external resources but my uh thought is that if we have a a scientific foundation for community discussion. So it would be a one day scientific symposium open to the public, but focused on decision makers at the state and county level who would attend. And hopefully for the day where we could go through the specifics of El Dorado County's situation, look at what is happening in other communities where there are more intensive management programs, Have some outside experts like Jim Williams, perhaps, come in, who's expressed a willingness to do it. Julie Young, who's worked in this community, and others. I'd like to see if we could kickstart recommendations for what a research and management program might look like here. What would it take to do it? What would it look like? And maybe galvanize interest in participating. So that's my proposal. A lot of people can attach to this other idea. This is what they want to do. And I've spoken with Roger about this, Roger Trout, who's here. Roger has given me some good ideas, good feedback on defining the problem. uh better but i would like to have that be a scientifically informed problem definition would you talk to morgan who have you talked to morgan morgan killer i have not talked to morgan yet okay but she's absolutely excited to talk to you so oh okay judging from our conversation yesterday i'm sorry right now you can't take public comments this is only for commissioners so we will open it up to you wait for your turn um

I mean, I think it's a great plan. Do you have something you're trying to make a motion for or ask us for?

Yes. So what I would like to ask for is sponsorship of the conference. And it would be a financial commitment to pay the travel of experts to come here.

Are we allowed to do that?

What do you think? You suggested before we needed to go to the board of supervisors to get their blessing for something like this. And I'd like to invite them.

It's not in your, we'd have to look at the bylaws again. I think you have to come back with another item with more of a definitive amount. Sure. You could ask for, I think what would be better is to ask for commitment from these guys to have you look into it more and come back with a report. Like we're going to make an item for the board.

Should I talk to County council? I always hate talking to them, but no, but I can.

So staff does that for you.

Okay, good.

But I would say get these guys to vote on. Yes. We'd like you to move forward. We're looking into this more coming back to us with what the travel is, how we need to go about this.

Yeah. And there could be – I don't see that the commissioner would have to be the sole sponsor.

I mean, because you guys have a pretty tight budget.

So it would need to be in your budget and – So the La Trobe Foundation has also offered to consider this. The RCD – Eldorado RCD is supportive of it.

I can shoot out an email. I mean, if you get the support from these guys and they want you to move forward asking and finding out more information and reporting back to the committee, then I will, before I walk out the door, I'll do it this afternoon. As a matter of fact, I'll send Danny an email.

Okay, I'll throw it up into the principal. symposium. Yeah. Does that sound good?

Yeah. I don't think so.

I'd like a vote. Unless Steve would like. I'd like a vote.

A motion to support Dr. Soares' book and his research.

A one-day alliance symposium for Elgar County.

I'll second it. Moved and seconded. And now public comment. Or no, all in favor?

No, public comment.

Oh, okay. Public comment first.

Is there public comment in the room?

We are now taking public comment on item five. Each speaker will have three minutes to address the commission. We will begin with comments from individuals present in the meeting room, followed by those participating on Zoom. Any public comment?

Kathy Germstad, ex-commissioner here. So are you talking about for the public or just for the commission?

No, I'm talking for the public and for the Board of Supervisors.

Okay. What would the venue be?

To be determined, maybe the board chambers, maybe the Coloma Grange, maybe the town hall.

It would be similar to what would happen at the Board of Supervisors.

I hope it wouldn't be similar to that.

Yeah. But it would be open to the public, so you would get a lot of comments from the public. They would have to be that way.

To be determined. To be determined. Okay. The structure of it to be determined. And I think if you have it in a venue like the Board of Supervisors Chambers, it feels more formal like that. If it was something like the Coloma Grange, it might be a different feel. Yeah.

I just wanted to get clear.

Kathy, I welcome your support. Participation.

Any other trouble from it?

I think it's a great idea.

I would urge you to look at a global, a little bit bigger than Oglala County.

Yeah.

You know, I think... that it could be very effective to open it up, because you're bringing in some amazing, the way you're talking about amazing researchers.

Sierra counties, our sister counties in the Sierra Peninsula. So Board of Supervisors, maybe from those counties, or do you have people to recommend from those counties that would participate?

I think your Ag Commissioner enforces this through the Food and Ag Code and all that. I wouldn't talk to your Ag Commissioners. Wildlife issues are definitely a part of their.

Okay.

So that would be my first start. Sheriffs are dealing with it if it's a health and human safety issue. You can't get a depredation permit, you know, something like that. That's not what happens here. Typically the sheriff hardly ever has to deal with it.

Well, I know the sheriff's interested, so.

Oh, he's always interested. They're always going to be interested. But I start.

Yeah.

See, I also think it's a great idea.

I can help you recruit other experts that are in my network, whether, you know, cap scientists, practitioners that might be value-added to this and, you know, help with the agenda and stuff like that.

Oh, I was going to call you. For sure.

Yeah, no, of course. I'm happy to help with that. So the only thing I want to, I'm just going to read your powers and duties. And so that'll give you a little, remind you again. Yes. Advise the board of supervisors on matters affecting the conservation of fish, game, wildlife, and the environment within jurisdiction of the board. Make recommendations to the board regarding the expenditure of fish and game preservation funds. Perform such other duties and functions as the board may direct. Prepare a detailed budget for proposed expenditures during each fiscal year for approval by the board. The commission, and it's discretion by majority vote, authorize the commission chair to expend funds within the approved budget separate expenditures relating to personnel. The chair shall collaborate with appropriate county staff for handling expenses for tracking and monitoring purposes for stewards of the section. So what I think you'd have to do is develop, probably develop a board item. I'll get more direction from county council on how that would look, but I would say, you know, you've got your motions and do more research, find out more. and bring it back to the Commission.

I would like to have the authority from the Commission to go speak with members of the Board of Supervisors about this and see if they're supportive.

I could just do that as a citizen.

Well, I could do it as a citizen, but I want to do it as a Commissioner.

I think that you need to flesh out what you want.

Yes.

First. And so I, my advice, you don't have, I mean, just my thoughts is that you get the, get more information, come back with it and then bring it back to the board, the commission and see if, you know, they're supportive of actually bringing it out and items right now.

You're still a little loose.

if we pass this motion. Okay. If you want to supplement it. Addendum to get the authority.

Well, it's my...

I want to... As an at-large member, you can go to the board.

Yeah. Yeah. I want to gauge board support before I get the commission. You know we always support this.

I don't think we have enough information. I think you need some more research and work and come back to the commission and we'll discuss it before we get to the board. Right now, I think we probably end up with No disrespect, but we'll probably end up with more questions that we can't answer until we get a little bit more formal in our presentation.

So the current motion is just you have our back to keep researching. That is the only thing that we're taking public comment on right now, and we still have to take public comment online. Can you call for public comment online?

Yes, there is no public comment.

Okay, perfect. So the motion for this one, All in favor, motion for Dr. Schwartzbach to just continue on his motion, come back the next meeting with more information. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Okay, moving on to agenda item number six. So this is a great item for us. We would like to say thank you to Leair.

What? For what? Oh, you guys shouldn't have, but thank you. Man, what a weakness to have had. Oh, thank you, guys.

Where did Byron actually go? Yeah, I don't know.

Oh, in case you need a knife. I get it. I think you would be off the Christmas list.

We have to take public comment before she opens. Ouch.

I thought it was the Hello.

Hi, it's so cool.

Well, it's what it says.

Presented to the individual in appreciation of your support and guidance to the El Dorado Fish and Wildlife Commission 2026.

you're going to put a bear on it. Then maybe a puffer. Or just... As long as you don't put a wolf on it, I'm all good.

I think that's where you get that.

The wolves are coming.

I think they are.

Yeah. I'll give you some info on the update before we get to it. William agrees.

Oh my gosh, Brett. How beautiful. So is that an urn for ashes? Thank you, guys.

You can burn your files and put them.

I already dumped most of it into the recycling. They're like, don't you want to save it for your memoir? They can do it all on their own. Oh, you guys are so generous. Thank you. Yesterday I got to go to the state Capitol to the assembly and And Heather Hadwick and Joe Patterson honored me on the assembly floor, and I'd never been in the assembly floor before. It was so, so cool.

Well, that's the way to go there.

Totally humble. This week has totally been humbling. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. I'm probably going to come just to harass you.

That'll be what we used to do.

You'll be on the commission soon, right?

I don't know. I'll have to be an at-large. I don't know that one of those board members would appoint me.

You can be part of that hot committee. Oh.

So don't think you're getting out too easy. Okay. All right.

So we do have to take public comments since this is an agenda item. We are now taking public comment on item six. Each speaker will have three minutes to address the commission. We will begin with comments from individuals present in the meeting room, followed by those participating on Zoom.

Quick question. So is there somebody already in line to take your place? Okay.

The board, first of all, I just, I should, as I'm looking at this, I'm thinking it has been such a pleasure to work with you guys and what a great group of people you are and just your passion for the county and learning about fishing derbies and, you know, all the things that go on. I probably drive you crazy sometimes. I'm like, you know, but you guys are just, it's been amazing working with you. And I really consider it one of the highlights of my time in the ag department. Yesterday, the board approved a conditional offer to, and I don't think it's a secret, Jesse Flores, or sorry, Jesse Fowler from Calaveras County. She is the ag commissioner there. And she probably won't be in for a while. So my understanding is she's accepted it. Corey Larson, our assistant commissioner, is going to be acting interim. They approved that yesterday, too. So she's moving? No. She lives in Plymouth. So Jessie started out her career here in El Dorado County. She actually worked for me. She was our pesticide plant. kind of head lead on our pesticide program. And then she went to San Joaquin as their pesticide lead and then went to Calaveras as their ag commissioner. They do have a wildlife trapper there. They do, you know, have those kind of issues. Deals mainly with grapes, timber, and cattle as her main crops there. And they have a lot of cannabis. So I think she interacts with their Fish and Wildlife Commission, so.

So is she lying savvy? Have you been talking to her?

Sarah and I are friends. I would think she is. I mean, she just went to Dan Macon, our livestock advisor, just put on a predator, carnivore workshop, and she attended it.

She knows about all your promises you've made to us that she's going to honor.

You guys can tell her whatever. Tell her everything. Leanne promised us this. And when she calls me, I'll be out, you know. Yeah. I'll be out doing something. Walking germ shepherds, I don't know.

Okay, just a quick question.

Yeah.

Is it... You said something about cannabis briefly. Is it legal to grow cannabis in your yard if you choose to? Six plants. Personal use only. So you can grow personal use only? Six plants.

Got it. Otherwise, it's an extremely lengthy permit process.

Yeah, up in Santa Barbara County, where my cousins have their ranches, the orchid greenhouses have been transitioned over, many of them, to grow cannabis. It's a big league operation. Yeah, it's unbelievable. We have a few growers, a few legal growers.

Is there any more public comment in the room? We're now taking public comment from Zoom participants, and there's no public comment.

And there's no vote.

So moving on to agenda item seven, Commissioner and Pat would like to recommend the commissioners to get more banners.

Well, I don't know how to put this tactfully. We had it on the agenda item. It was announced to be all three derbies. We sponsored four derbies for the kids. Three of them were on the same day. We only had one banner. I was supposed to get approval from the commission at the meeting that was canceled. Unfortunately, the derbies were before this meeting, and I purchased them, which I was not supposed to do. So I am asking the commission to approve the purchase of two banners in the amount of $110.

One tent each or one?

No, one tent total.

Okay, perfect.

This gives us three banners. I have one.

We have to keep track of where the other ones go. You only had one? We only had one. And there's one again. He only has one and suffered until I have the other one. We're going to let Myrna weigh in. Okay. Here we go.

Here we go.

Hi there. So this is fine if he asks for his forgiveness in front of you guys. Basically, we can reimburse him if you vote on it that that's approved. It's just after the fact. He'll give me his receipt and I will reimburse him.

If that's okay. The budget will reflect that, Verna? Will it be like a...

Yes, Leigh Ann.

Thank you.

I move that we reimbursed Dennis the $110 for the two extra banners. I second that.

I would actually like to add a little thing to your motion. I think all of us should also have shirts for when we're at the fishing derby. So different thing? Okay, never mind. So public comment on making a motion to reimburse all the banners. We are now taking public comment on item seven.

Each speaker will have three minutes to address the commission. We will begin with comments from individuals present in the meeting room, followed by those participating on Zoom.

Is there any public comment in the room?

You know what? I don't want to talk anymore. Mute me.

Okay. Something's going on.

Put your hand down.

Oh, gosh.

You bet. I muted you.

There is no more public comments.

All in favor to reimburse the banners, say aye. Aye. Those opposed, they may.

The motion has passed. Yeah, the guests do not have to stay if you do not want to or you're enjoying it.

We'll actually tick you up on that. We're going to hit that too. Thank you guys very much. We're going to call

Sometime, I'd like to talk to you about your relatives in San Bernardino County.

Yeah, sure. Would you be kind enough to give me a contact info? Yeah. And give me your last name is?

Mark.

Great. I look forward to hearing from you. Okay. Yeah. Thank you, guys. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Let's give a general wave as a handshake.

Thanks for having us.

Congratulations.

Oh, thank you.

Enjoy your time.

I'm having that palpitations.

I'm doing what I'm doing. Yeah, well, you know, as much as you have anxiety now, trust me, when you get there, you'll see.

I don't know how to do all this stuff. Moving on to agenda five and eight. Commissioner Will recommending commission to dispatch taking action on the proposal to purchase donating 10 fishing rods and wheels to ARC summer camp program.

Okay, the summer camp program, as it was planned, was dropped because the pond got covered over with too much lettuce. Yeah. And so this item can be struck. That's okay. Yes. My daughter and I have already purchased and given to the conservatory. We're not nice. Don't talk about being nice. Trouble.

I mean, nice. Yeah.

Okay. Then public comment. Now taking public comment on item eight, each speaker will have three minutes to address the commission. We will begin with comments from individuals present in the meeting room, followed by those on zoom. I do want to get your,

Okay.

I'll give you a call tomorrow. I'll take it back. I'll point next week as I'm leaving. Another term. Okay.

And there's no more public comment. Moving on to the agenda item number nine. Commissioner Byrne recommending commission discuss visiting neighborhood visiting neighbor county fish and wildlife commission.

Well, in the past we've visited, we've had various commissioners, I'll use the word of science, neighboring fishing games, meetings, and we've learned a lot from visiting these other commissions and sharing what we were doing along with some of the things we were doing. And I would like to see us reinstate that program where at least we visit the three Fish and Game Commission meetings in our adjacent counties. Next meeting, I'd like to carry this over and see if you're interested.

I think you should put together our committee plan this out. Give us a schedule and find out where the meetings are. Okay, I can do that. And then, you know, whoever's available.

We also don't have to go in person.

Yeah. How about some of us?

Yeah. I would be more inclined to watch it online.

I have the information. I'll bring it back to her next week.

Any public comment?

Now taking public comment on item nine, each speaker will have three minutes to address the commission. We'll begin with comments from individuals present in the meeting followed by those participating in Zoom.

Kathy, I made clarification. I thought we already did this. That was already in motion.

No, we haven't.

It's been on the agenda a couple times.

He keeps bringing it up, but it never happens.

Okay. I just thought that you were like... No.

When we stopped visiting other commissions, basically because of

Establish that it was a little bit for us to do. Oh, we need we need we needed some passive condition. Establish that.

Okay. Thank you for your answers.

Okay.

So what would be The action. I'll bring back the contact information at the next meeting, and if we're interested in participating in other Fish and Wildlife Commission meetings, we can.

What we're normally doing, there was a couple of us going to... Yeah.

And we learned a lot and developed a relationship with those other... Well, I would like to...

nominates you to lead an ad hoc committee to put that together.

Presentation.

That's right. Right now? I'll bring it. As long as you're going to read it.

Was that a motion? I don't think so. Okay.

Any other public comments?

There's no more public comments. Perfect. Open forum. We are now taking public comments. Open forum. Each speaker will have three minutes to address the commission. We will begin with comments from individuals present in the meeting room, followed by those participating on Zoom.

I have one. Actually, it's a question. I was wondering if anybody's heard anything Bob, you might be able to speak to this, and if Shelly is here, she probably could, but what's happening with the beaver reintroduction?

Shelly would be the one to talk to you about that.

I haven't heard anything about it in a couple years.

You know, I think there was some reintroduction. I was at the Pope Valley yesterday fishing.

I heard there's beaver dance in there, and you know, there's the introduction along It was great. I think it is coming down from the 88.

I think they've always had beavers. I know Hope Valley has always had them.

Yeah.

And then out Blue Lakes has always had them.

And a couple years ago, there was that movement from CBSW to start reintroducing them to areas for quality, for water conservation.

Part of the governor's thing. Part of the governor's thing. But then the last reintroduction I saw was from Tribal Lands.

So as you guys all know, I'm retiring on Friday. Very bittersweet.

I was at the Hat Creek Ag Commissioner's meeting.

They do it every year at the North

North End, Sac Valley, Ag Commissioners Associations together. And we got an update on wolves. They're, from what we've been told by USDA, hopefully it's a judge with what CDFW has. But there's 12 packs. Three of them have collars. None are here. They're going to come. I I was advised yesterday by the assembly members that they're hoping that there's funding coming to help CDFW, but I'm not sure how that's going to go. They're, you know, woefully underfunded for what they're doing.

Well, woefully underfunded.

It's, to me, horrendous. I mean, we need more biologists that will work with human-wildlife interaction. We have a lot of stuff going on in Tahoe right now. And then there's the loss of livestock due to the wolves. It's just...

If Bob could just comment.

We're going to read Bob's mind.

I'm just here.

There have been wolves that have gone through our county going south.

There was at least one that went through our county going south, just traveled straight through and across Highway 50 and down. He was killed. It was a he, I think, right?

I believe so.

He was killed down in Southern California. He was hit by a car.

Keep crossing those highways.

Yeah, and the packs are... You all, I'm sure, are familiar with what they've done in the Sierra Valley. The commissioners in the north are screaming and yelling because they're just losing a lot of cattle. Calves are pretty tough. What we deal with here is coyotes, really, are our issues, especially in Alpine County. But up there, I mean, I just can't even imagine.

Coyotas are working over the cows too, not just the sheep in the Alpine County.

Yeah, we don't have any sheep herders anymore. They used to have the fast sheep herders off of Monitor Pass. I haven't seen them in forever. It's cattle you'll see out there. And what happens then, I mean, it's really our only crop up there. What happens is they go for the afterbirth and they go for the calves. They eat their stomachs and get them in the belly and we're done. You know, they're not a, what's the word I'm looking for? You don't have to have a permit. They're gainable. They're not gainable. Thank you. So we routinely do coyote work up there. I don't get as many calls down here, but I think our ranchers may be more. A lot of the cattle ranchers up there, you know, one of them doesn't ranch in a ranch. They're in Alpine, but they're in Nevada, and they're in Amador, and they're, you know, so... Maybe not out there as much. But coyotes are really bad.

How are we doing on that data, the lion data? Have you had a chance to pull that back up and look at it?

I don't have it. I have it up to December of 2025, and we're roughly about the same amount of animals as 2024.

Can you send that to me? Sure.

I just updated PowerPoint, so I have that.

All right.

I did meet with Bill Gaines on, I don't know, Monday. That's been a blur of a week. And it's only Wednesday. And he is kind of hopeful about the bill that's going through. But I think once it gets to appropriations, it appropriates some funding.

Does it have funding in it?

I don't think it'll get funded with our budget the way it is.

Yeah.

So we'll see.

And what's the number of that bill? What's it called? Is it SB or AB?

Alvarado Gil's taking it through again.

It's doomed. It's doomed with her sponsorship, I think.

It's going through nicely compared to the other one, but it's research and funding. And the funding, I even talked to the assembly members yesterday, and they don't believe in this budget the way it is. Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's okay. Is it S is it S? Do you remember what number it is?

I'll find it.

Is it SB?

SB. Thank you, Mr. Trump.

And that's really all I have. Um, I'm definitely going to have to come and question you guys because I'm going to miss this commissioner.

You're welcome. We may be reaching out to you for some help too.

Remember, you've got a limit of three minutes. I can tell you.

I'm grateful to you.

I'm going to have a conversation with the CAO about, you know, you just wait until I get my three minutes. Thank you for everything, Dr. Barclay.

You're welcome.

Well, I think sometimes you guys, you guys were like set new. What do you want to do? You know, you're always thinking out of the box and I think that's amazing and makes you guys so great. Well, cause your boundaries are your, your bylaws and your, and then when I don't do it, Roger will.

I'd say that tongue in cheek, but. You'll have a great retirement.

Yeah.

You get old real quick, so don't hesitate. I know. As I start to have palpitations. Are you speaking from personal experience? Personal experience.

As I start to have palpitations about retirement, you know, even I had the CAO last night, and she was like, I'm short. Come enjoy your life.

Yeah. Well, and you've enjoyed it working, too.

Well, I love what I do, and there's just a lot more to get done. I really do. but I think there'll always be a lot more to get done.

Commissioner reports. I have a question for you.

It has to do with agriculture department. Do you ever get calls on geese, Canadian geese?

So we've had a long standing CDFW has gotten calls on it too. Yep. The guys with the cabin. I can't do anything about geese. That's not on my... I push it to CDFW.

They push it to the feds because they're single migratory game experts.

Did you call me? I'm not being able to get back to work.

I'm on the road.

Are you speaking at Ryslake?

No, I'm on North Canyon Road.

There's a little park at your place.

Creek and then

Why can't they fly?

Well, no, they have little ones.

Oh.

And they molt.

Oh, plus breeding molt. That's only two weeks.

They don't start first if they get hit by a car. Okay.

We're not in a place where they'll get hit by a car. But out of eight of them that were pretty good size, bullet size, it was too bad. It was a lot of damage.

We get more calls about, not about, oh, they're not safe. It's, oh my gosh, they're ruining Wright's Lake.

Oh, we fight with them all. Another story. Okay, thank you.

Commissioner reports and ad hoc committee reports.

So I have been working with the sheriff's department and CDFW on a sign to go below the lion, which is mounted on the wall, the lobby of the Sheriff's Department. And working with someone named Samantha Chadwick, who's an administrative person. And so it's kind of been some of this, you know, but I think we're finally getting it narrowed down. You've got the interpretive division to help with the text. I wrote some text. They changed it. Shelly changed it. I sent it to the sheriff. They're using it. There's a sign in the works that's happening. And one of the things I wanted to do is put a QR code in so anybody with really one more information, because you can only get so much information on something. And it's the usual stuff, you know. but you could put more interesting stuff in a QR code. So that's where I think the action is, is to get the interesting stuff in. So working on that.

Yeah. I attended a predator workshop in Amber County. Yeah. Make me put it on from UCD. He had Tina Tate's Tony and one's a scientist, the ones that take as a, I guess, economist. It was very fascinating. The most fascinating thing about it, I thought, was that in 2015, a wolf wandered into this station, wandered back out, and immediately it was running in danger. And now there's like 270 wolves in the state, 12 packs. And depending on the time of year, their diets contain up to 86% bovine, but it averages overall at 5%. So I'm not so sure. But that was a really good.

Did they talk about some of the packs? Corey went, but did they talk about some of the packs being worse than others?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Well, I could speak to that. Anyway, it's fascinating.

I'm just so fascinated by it because

You look at, they cut off hunting between 1917 and 1926 because the deer population was so low. It was just, you know, everybody just stand on their porch and shoot them out, I guess. Anyway, and then the population has climbed. And after 1948, when Bambi came out, the population just jumped up. And it slowly comes down, and then it peaked back up in the early 80s, and then it's dropped down. And now it's actually below where it was when it stopped. And, you know, everybody will say, oh, there's lots of deer. I see them every day. They're all around my house. They're for protection, you know. And we don't have wolves here yet. So I'm curious. Lions and bears and wolves. How much more can the deer herd take? So are you suggesting. Well, that's the other bear.

Are you suggesting it's time for a hunting moratorium?

It might be. It might be. or the ultimate. Or some combination of both. Yeah. There's definitely a, well, you know, there's no lack of deer in this low country around. Five acre parcels could probably shoot there. And also, that's where they're protected, you know, because John Tam was out doing his job. That guy's going to send you that. There's three bucks.

What was that?

The cap. The cap. I told him he had to report it.

Yeah, yeah. If you don't report it, I don't know. It didn't happen.

Yeah, I think that he just talked to John.

John's usually pretty good about mentioning it.

Can I get a copy of that? Oh, yeah. Let's finish that.

Okay, and Dennis?

Yeah, I just have a couple real quick things. First of all, is there some kind of a thing why we took the contact information off our list? The phone numbers. Well, there's not phone numbers. There are phone numbers for the past members.

Well, maybe they don't want to be contacted by you.

I don't think that's the case.

I think that's what it is. Well, I don't think mine would.

Item two I have. Well, they just have emails for past members. You might ask me. Is it Bernadette's? I don't know.

I'll call her tomorrow. I don't think she's put her hand up, but... I'll call her tomorrow.

Why would you want to contact any of these people? Why did we contact Mike Venega? I know.

You don't have his contact information.

I do, but I don't have other people.

Hello!

That's the wizard.

You guys are so funny. So I think the board doesn't even have like your phone numbers or anything on it. That's just a document that you guys have in your little books. And it's nothing that's, you know, you can write your friends numbers down. You have them from before. I can give them to you. But we just kind of took those phone numbers off and put the emails on. So if you need it changed, it is just in your little guide books. We can, um, change that for you, but just let me know. Thanks.

Did you go to the fishing derby in June? We didn't have a June. Did anyone go to the fishing derby?

Morgan. Yeah.

Can you, can you talk about it?

Well, uh,

Oh, Myrna would like to speak again. Oh, okay.

No, she doesn't want to. For some reason, it won't unmute. I don't know what's going on. Sorry, guys. I don't want to talk anymore.

Our library, Rwanda and Elwater Hills Crosswind Library was very successful. We didn't have to turn away any kids this time. We had people that showed up and waved in line with fish. And the Derby has broken into two sessions by age group. And the first session was younger kids, and almost every kid caught a fish. The second session, the same thing, almost everybody caught a fish, but there were some kids that didn't. But everybody seemed to have a good time, and Like I said, I was very pleased with the outcome as far as the dissipation. We have some funds set aside, and we're going to restock that pond, not with the number of fish, but later in the fall to see if we can do the carryover for next year's. Very successful. The second or third item I had is California State has a program for banding morning dove. If anybody's interested in giving me a call, there is a class that you have to go through that helps you identify the age of the bird, the sex of the bird, and other information. I've been involved with it for a number of years and it's pretty rewarding because It goes through a state database to a federal database. And when the bands are recovered, it's amazing just how far these doves travel in such a short period of time. One of the Doves and I bands years ago, in 91 days, went from Elder Love Hills all the way into Mexico. And it's a very interesting program if anybody would like to participate.

I attended the Georgetown Lake Walden Derby this month along with Lori Parlin and her husband.

There were at least 260 people involved in fishing, kids and families. 18 U.S. Forest Service who cooperated. We had seven California Conservation Corps there. And there was approximately 20 other co-sponsors who contributed something to that derby. So it was a big success. There seems to be a phenomenon, and I'm not sure what it is, but it seems like the smallest girl catches the biggest fish at these derbies. And it's kind of uncanny. It seems to happen for all. And there were a lot of fish caught. The larger fish were 14 to 17 plus inch range, about a 12 inch. Good times had by all. Also met with Dennis, former chair of this commission, Larry Nelson.

That's my report. I did not have a chance to go to any of the fishing derbies. If you could give me a write-up of the fishing derbies, I did update with Helen's help. Helen's awesome. If you guys haven't checked out our fishing derby website, part of our website, it's fully updated. Well, not anymore. It was before the fishing derbies. We listed all three of them, the time, location, all the information that you're going to be needed. But there is also a section on the bottom where it's past events. So we have one up there and there's photos and everything. So take a look at it. I would love to keep it updated. So if you could do a little like everyone that came fish approximate, that would be great. And I'll put it up. If you have any pictures, is it better? And I'll get it up on the website. Um, I did go to the fair with my family, and there was some really amazing booths. I'm curious if we're allowed to have a booth and encourage fishing, education on any of the topics that we have, something that I was thinking about.

I have an idea. And I won't even say it's my idea, but it's somebody's idea. Okay. Suggested to me that it would be good for us to have a, at the county fair, a model pin that was lion proof. And what does that look like?

Oh, that would be fun. Yeah.

Maybe you could get the Mountain Lion Foundation to pair up with you.

Yeah.

They bring the pin, you have the... Yeah.

They've heard this idea. A pen for lions or a pen for livestock? A pen for livestock.

Do that later.

We have participated in the past. We teamed up with, I believe, a fishing name.

It's fishing wildlife now. Anyhow, we participated with fishing wildlife.

organization at the county fair a number of years in a row. And we had the afternoon fish was public and it was great. And I think Shelly has to serve. Oliver Pelts and Antlers and everything. You still do that?

We do not. But I think I'm not going to speak for Shelly, but I'm sure we'd be interested in the future if you folks were to have a booth and help participate.

That's the thing. You always have to have somebody there.

Perfect. And that is it for us. I'm probably going to be jumping out of here in like two minutes. I have to leave early to take my son to school. That will finish up the meeting. But, Bob.

I hope I'm not closing this meeting because this is a hard show to close. The bears are becoming problematic already. It's June, so I'm expecting that to continue through the summertime.

Where?

Tahoe. Okay. Sawmill Pond, Meeks Bay, the normal hotspots. Normal hotspots. Though Sawmill hasn't been a normal hotspot, but it's starting to pop up this year. And so what's been happening? Last week, we did have two attacks in one day in the Lake Tahoe region. One of those finning animals was taken. The second one can't be identified today. um, do we need DNA? And unfortunately it was filled and I, it was late being reported to us.

Is that the 80 year old back? Yes. So personally.

Yeah. Two people were, were injured. Um, there was a report of a third one on the same day, but that one turned out to just not have actually had any human contact, but it entered a occupied car. Um, so I said, one of those animals was taken. They're the one, to my knowledge, we don't have enough DNA to identify, um, be a proper offending animal and so we're just going to kind of keep monitoring um uh speaking of sawmill pond though i was there last night and on a tuesday night there were a good number of handful of kids fishing that um only two of the young men were local everyone else was from out of there and they just knew that the pond was there they had their kids out fishing so no one was catching anything but you can still see them rising and jumping so there's still some fish in the pond On the kind of general enforcement side of things, we had a couple of dispos within the last month. Though it's interesting because of the court minutes, it says to pay fines to be determined by fishing game. We don't determine those fines. And so I've sent an email to the district attorney's office for some clarification. Um, normally those were levied by the court. So not sure what's happening there. There was one last year we missed too, that it said something similar and then nothing came of it. There were no fines paid. So I'm not sure. So hopefully by next meeting, we'll have some sort of clarification for you folks on what that might mean. Maybe they'd like us to.

Yeah, we'll, we'll give advice on what to find.

And it's through the diversion process. Diversion, Kathy.

Um, diversion.

And, and so I don't know if, if, they're looking for some inputs. But, you know, it's recommended they continue to have that conversation with Miles at the DA's office and make sure you have that relationship with them.

You know, we should be meeting with them pretty quick.

Yeah, I don't know. We met this late fall.

I don't remember when we ended. I know.

Yeah, so.

I think it was October.

I'd have to go back to my calendar, but it seems like it's been a while.

Somewhere over here.

Yeah. Yeah, we may want to do that.

Yeah. So if someone from the Commission wants to take the lead on that, let me know. I'll be happy to attend.

Sure. OK. Matt Lager.

And Leslie Chiv reports.

Anybody have a legislative report? I think the only one is the mountain lion bill that we talked about.

Anything new with that bear, the grizzly bill?

Heather Adwick believes that she's on the committee for it, but she believes it's going to move forward. It's a research bill. Roger has a public comment.

So did Alvarado Gil get voted out? Yeah. So she's a lame duck now?

Yeah. She didn't. Duarte got the hundreds of votes. Okay. Just to ask the legislative, there's one more bill from Blake Spears.

like they did it years back so it's a very comprehensive statewide bill whereas uh alvarado gill's uh 1397 was just focused on one region that's what they simply come out with so it's a lesser amount like five or seven million and the other bill again sb 1135 is like 40 million and yeah i think the way the state could come up with those monies i i know government i think uh we all do. There's company out there. They just prioritize it in different ways, and it's shuffled around in different ways. So there's a lot of support for SB 1135 by a number of parties, including the Farm Bureau and Cattlemen's Association, as well as some of the criminal advocates.

So that's a very interesting and powerful bill.

Who's the sponsor?

Blakespear. I think there's a sponsor.

And I think the feel is that It's a lot of money and possibly even though they won't make it through.

It's the California Wildlife Coexistence Act. Reestablishes a statewide program to manage human-animal conflicts.

We need it so bad.

It deploys trained conflict staff, creates a wildlife incident reporting tool, and expands the Wolf Livestock Compensation Program.

Does the board of supervisors weigh in on this kind of stuff? Do they send a letter to the school legislator lobbying?

They could, but the last time I asked them to do that, we didn't make the cutoff for the comments. We usually wait to see what's happening with it, where it's going before they weigh in.

So this, would it be appropriate for us at this bill?

I'd follow it. And as you see it moving forward, if it looks like, you know, there's going to be a call to action, I would, I would do it. It just, it needs to make it through the process of it. We have one, for example, that is, Electric vehicles, our department makes sure that the vehicle chargers are charging you what you're supposed to be charged, right? Well, the vehicle guys don't want us to do that, the electric vehicle charging manufacturers. So it made it to this point, and they needed people. But it has to make it kind of to a certain point before you pull the ticket.

Thank you for that. And the next meeting is July 29th in Placerville. I think there was, right? Yeah. We were talking about switching it to South of Tahoe, but I don't think we did at the time. So Placerville, and we will call the meeting to a close at 4.59.

You guys did good. Anytime you stay inside the borders.