Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

The record so show that Commissioner Morose is absent. Welcome commission and not to individual commissioners or to staff members. And I read the minutes from last meeting. Okay. A single motion will cover all items on the consent calendar. Does the commission wish to pull a consent calendar item for discussion?

Again, this was a city council initiated update of the zoning code. uh they gave us a direction to look at tobacco display and smoke shop regulations in on July 22nd of 2025. U we're really just looking at so this map shows the uh 97 locations. Um we did go uh take a look at all 97 locations uh in um so the first was the display area modification to a percentage and then also having app on the maximum amount of square footage. Uh the second option was looking at whether or not uh to increase. So that kind of goes around the existing uh to display that's shown in the in the picture here. And then the final one is the 16 cubic feet which essentially equates to a 4x4 by one uh um if the planning commission would like to recommend an increase in tobacco and related product display. Um staff is recommending just the increase to the 32 cubic feet. Uh we looked at that from kind of an equity perspective where we

mostly to the larger stores, the convenience stores, the value market, whatever the case may be. Yeah, that was the constraint that was identified by the city council. So, you know, the original uh direction was to to look at options.

Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Laura. Do we have any is known throughout the country as one of the premier distributors of rare and hard to find hookas will be sourced from the Middle East and found here in Oklahoma itself. There are components that are required such as the tobacco, the coals, the hoses and other necessary pieces. All we're asking for tonight is for the different types and sizes of cultural tobacco products such as hookah. actually has the lease hold for the former military surplus store immediately adjacent. So total combined is about 15,000 square ft.

And you're asking for health center and smoke shops, they don't really coincide with each other. And so to make both parties, you know, happy, uh, they would like me to move. You know, you could spell your last name for us. I appreciate it.

I sure will. It's B as in boy. R A N. And that would equal 96 square ft of display space for cigarette packs under under it doubling convenient to have more display. Is it necessary to have more display? And also given the doubling of tobacco product display space, onethird will quit, twothirds will have a lifetime of addiction and half of those will die of smoking related illnesses. Is it really true in this res not downtown, they are not on Main Street, but they are in the city limits?

The only reason why I ask is there's and I won't say the name of the particular smoke shop, but I pass by it all the time. Laura, any other cards?

We do. Donna Colbert appear in neighborhood retailers where families and children shop for everyday everyday items like corner markets, mini marts and local stores that are part of the daily routine in our community when to expose young people to greater risk. Sometimes holding the line is the most responsible step forward. Thank you for your time and for continuing to make public health a priority in Alcohol. You have any questions for Miss Colbert? The tobacco ordinance is to protect children because children have to see something shiny, something that people do and they will like to try it. A bad thing to do. That's my opinion. I'll speak um somewhere but uh that separate issue from display we learn from our parents our parents drink coffee we tend to drink coffee our parents um I don't necessarily I've never thought it attractive to see a wall of cigarettes Um, I don't think most shop owners how easy it is to just say, "Okay, we're doubling what we used to have." Um, I can also understand not increasing. Uh but when it comes to hookah, I find it a difficult thing to say, okay, 7-Eleven can have 16 square feet of cigarettes and you can have four hookas on your wall. I I find that as a as someone in charge of steering the zoning ordinance, I find that limiting. Do you find yourself a very disciplined

person, very unusual in the general public? Probably. Probably. Yeah. The purpose for advertising is to get people hooked on whatever product that they're selling. And advertising works. That's why there's so much money paid on advertising and so much uh commercials made also not to take drugs or tobacco and fetamines and all that because to advertise that it does work to a certain extent but a person like you who's already well disciplined it's not necessary. However, not everyone is like you. Yes.

We'll go with the polar opposite. I did smoke. I was a bartender. I They smoke them if you got them because I bartended in Arizona and you could smoke inside the bar. It wasn't like California. I don't smoke anymore because my little cute little white shirt that I wore when I was petite was yellow and decided that probably wasn't me for me. My biggest concern about this is that trying to decipher you have cigarettes and you have hookas and they're entirely different things. And I understand they both are for smoking, but I understand the point of you can store all these cigarettes and you can have four hookas. And if they're selling that for a smoke to, you know, to display them and they have people come to see these things, they have to go back and forth. And I'm not trying to advocate that you should smoke hookah. I've never smoked hookah. Um, but I can see the dilemma there that you're limiting when it's like apples and oranges because there are you can't make the hookas small and then I dream and then make it bigger for them to see it in real life. And I understand you could have like a maybe a screen and you can see all the hookas, but you still want to see them. So I understand making a bigger portion of the space in a 7-Eleven, let's say it went to 32. I don't really see because you don't see anybody here from the cigarette people here advocating for a bigger space because I don't know if how many of them actually would because their shops are so small and they have to have the hot dogs and liquor and the medical product, whatever they have in the store. There's just not enough room. just doesn't make financial sense to blow that out that much. But I don't know how to make this distinguish dis the distinguish, you know, because tobacco is tobacco. So, they all have to be under the same ordinance. And from a business standpoint, it makes sense to have

bigger items have more space, but then that's discriminating because it's still tobacco. And then the other people will say, "Well, I don't I would like more space to put my tiny little boxes in." So, how do we distinguish it? Can we have something different with hookah displays different than cigarette displays or is it all just the same? So then I think the percentage makes sense. But I I don't but I understand her point of you know putting more for one person is going to allow other people to do the same. I just don't know if it's really marketable for a 7-Eleven to have that much space in the shop for just cigarettes because there's so much more they could sell other than just cigarettes. So that's my conundrum with can we distinguish the two or are we stuck with tobacco's tobacco and we have to limit each thing individually

and also consider that a tobacco shop you have to be 21 to go in. Correct. Where the other you can be any age. Yes. and be there. Yeah. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Edison, uh, do you still have the slide of the three options that we saw last time or is that still on the table or No. Mhm.

There we go. So, uh, working backwards again in the relocation because I think there's a lot more agreement on allowing people to relocate in regards to schools. Does what's the buffer zone for the relocation? So the way in which the um draft ordinance language uh was written was uh just an increase in the separation uh beyond that which exists for the existing use. So uh if there's a 500t separation required from residential and you have a a smoke shop that is let's say uh 50 feet measured from the wall of the business to the residential property line, they would just need to be 51 ft in their new location.

Well, that's not that much. Well, it would be any increase. The thing the thing that I would emphasize is that a still would require a conditional use permit. And so, as part of the conditional use permit review, u the planning commission would have the authority to look at, you know, the orientation of the entrance, uh, you know, the proximity to other uses. So, there's still those um compatibility and conditional use permit findings that would be required. So, I think really what it would do is is just to um create an opportunity for those older um strip malls and commercial centers where they want to redevelop and have new uses come in to allow those uh existing smoke shops to relocate.

And I think that's fair because I think some of them are dilapitated and I think some of them want to leave. In regards to the kids, I work with kids for almost 24 years. Um, I will say that I see kids that have vapes that shouldn't have vapes. I see them on buses. I see them on trolleys. I don't know where they're getting them, but they're getting them. With the ordinance we're having now, I and I I've never seen a kid say that, well, because this ordinance is here, I'm not going to be able to get them. It It does It doesn't make sense. Um, we have some establishments that sell alcohol that are as large as some of these grocery stores that nobody's ever said anything about and the kids are still getting alcohol no matter where I would say they're getting them from the smaller the better. Um I don't agree that raising the display to uh what is it 31 32 ft

that'd be doubly yeah

I don't agree that that is going to have an impact on children in that they they're going to they're either going to have parents that are going to parent and watch over them or they're going to find ways around it. They're not going to worry about that metric. Hookas and cigarettes are you can't they're both they're both tobacco, but one actually has a display. It has an art. It has cultural significance. A cigarette butt you'll find on the in the gutter right after they're done. But they're not the same. um raising it given an opportunity for business owners to at least display their wells wares to adults. I don't see that. I don't I don't see how that is affecting children, especially when it's 21 years old for smoke shops. Um and if they were selling them to kids, I mean, then we'll I guess we'll just cross that bridge when we'd get there. Um I don't see I while I agree that kids need to be protected I think that is ultimately the job of the family. Um different cultures different values I think we need to be careful when we want to put be uh absolute statements and say everybody needs to be one certain way and that's the only way that society will function. I think that would be a mistake. Um, I would caution you if this is increased. I'm there is there is a point, you know, if it's shiny and I want it, you know, if people will get caught selling it, I mean, that would be a that would be problematic. I just I'm having a hard time seeing how it raising it to 32 square feet or the other metric is going to um increase smoke usage. They're smoking

now and I don't know where they and they're not smoking those. I can tell you that right now. They're smoking vapes. Um they're smoking cigarettes. They're smoking well, you name it. So, I I just don't necessarily agree.

Okay. Well, I have a question for staff. Um just out of curiosity, is there any legal way that we could split like, okay, let's not increase the tobacco display. Um, and the hookah itself, the the art part of that that can that be a separate display and say you can have an additional x number of feet of display for hookas.

The way the existing uh code is written, it includes uh tobacco products and tobacco related products. And so hookah is inclusive of all of those. Um so you know um as an example at Parkway Plaza for many years there was a tobacco um pipe shop that was in there that that also sold wine and so u you know they had the ability to have uh the wooden tobacco pipes uh for sale. So the way the code is structured right now it doesn't discern between those different types of devices that are used to to smoke if it's involved with tobacco. It's all

correct. So, I I think um just to add on to that from staff's perspective, I I think the the challenge here is is um trying to make sure that you're uh meeting the needs of the convenience markets, but then not not to the point where you're kind of to some extent corrupting the smoke shop ordinance where you're almost creating like junior smoke shops. So, we don't really want to have like multiple levels of that. And I think that's why um staff ultimately came back with the recommendation to increase to 32 cubic feet. I think you did mention um that you don't see it very frequently inside of convenience markets. Um for the convenience markets that we visited, there were quite a few that had maybe two or three hookas that are maybe on top of the rack of of cigarettes that are for sale. So it's not a a primary aspect of that. Um so I think that's what staff observed. So, but ultimately it's it would fall to the planning commission. So, if you wanted to include some uh language as part of your uh recommendation, uh you could incorporate that. Uh but in general, I think it would it makes the most sense to to regulate them all equally so that we're not here at the next meeting talking about a different carveout for a different type of tobacco related product.

Um thank you.

Yeah. Well, I um I still feel that we uh in essence we're considered the elders. We're not really the elders, but the elders in a certain sense that we are to protect the community to the best of our ability. Then whatever the community does, they're going to do no matter what. And I think the ordinance was crafted in such a way that um it allows tobacco smoking allows use of tobacco but on a limited uh portion. So the uh the incentive for children or others to use it it's diminished and not everyone is like Mr. Ciro. You know I used to smoke at one time as well and uh yeah I did get influenced by my friends. Yeah I was 12 years old. Let's go out and have a smoke or try my uh my father's cigar. It was sickening at that time, but then you get used to it after a while. Uh I I think it's our duty to to protect the children of the community. And it's true that parents uh it's a parents duty, but we need to be helpful to the parents, not undermine undermine them in any way, shape, or form. So I am for um allowing the relocation but not increasing the uh the the cubic feet of the display areas. I think keeping it the way it is it leaves it uh nobody is confused and no one is be take feels that they're being taken advantage of and there still are tobacco shops which primarily sell tobacco and that's it amongst other things that that can still people can still go there and buy buy those items right there. So that's my feeling on it.

I would just say that to you what you just said, you were influenced by friends, not by the establishment. It's it's by the friends that caused it. Um, remember the Marbor man? He died of lung cancer. I mean, he was there.

But yeah, but we don't want to go off on a tangent here. We're not talking about the Marbor. We're talking about just expanding it to 32 cubic square feet so we can add hookas inside the establishment. We're not talking about something that's going to be on television or on cartoon. That's not that's a different room. Um I think friends and family influence what you know people want to do. I think we need to be careful. I do believe staff recommendation is a good splitting the difference, but that's my two cents. Um,

there isn't a, you know, 7-Eleven or different people who who do sell just cigarettes only here to kind of discuss and want the bigger space. So, I don't know if they really would make the bigger space. I mean, they might, but it has to be behind a counter, and it's such a small counter that would really take up a lot of real estate. Well, that looked pretty large to me. You want to bring up that picture again? Well, I've been in 7-Eleven. They usually have the counters in the middle. There's people behind. So, the pink one is the size. Yeah. Of the one. Mhm.

It looks pretty large. No, it looks pretty large, but I know the 7-Eleven that I go to, there's that it's around and if you do that much space, they're going to lose view of people what's going on behind. So, I think they're more concerned of what's going on behind them, what they can't see, and then having a bunch of cigarettes out because they're not making any more money. They're, you know, by throwing more cigarettes out there. I think it just allows with hookah allows them to display a little more. I don't really know if the 7-Elevens are going to capitalize on this. Um, they m they might, but you know, it's a lot smaller than the blue wall that covers the door, then they can't go back and get the product because it's the whole wall. But I think that, you know, to kind of take in consideration to for some of the bigger items because those are those are going to eight of those will take up that whole space. Well, I'm I was I'm still probably more in favor of the percentage, but uh doubling the display area would at least allow for some more of the hookah bowls to be displayed.

Oh, I'm in agreement with you, but I don't know if I can get everybody to agree. So, I'm just a a percentage would uh a percentage with a cap would give an advantage to the big box store. It would

um for example, case in point, cash and carry would be able to have 150 square feet of shelf space uh dedicated to displaying a whole bunch of different types of hookah, different colors and sizes. Um, and that isn't necessarily going to be available to the 7-Eleven who might not gain a whole lot of space with a percentage or 3%. Then it actually would be. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, my my feelings are. Is there anyone that wants to make a motion? If not, I'll make a motion.

I will make a motion. uh find this. Um I'd like to move to adopt the next resolution in order recommending city council approval of proposed zoning amendments which include the relocation and the uh alternative number two which is to increase display area to 32 cubic feet. Second. A motion by Commissioner Circle, second by Commissioner Pollock RDE. Please vote.

A motion carries with three votes yes and one vote no.

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may interject, uh this was a recommendation from the planning commission to the city council. Uh the city council uh public hearing is tenatively scheduled for October 28th.

Okay. Thank you, Noah. Item number three, zoning code and specific plan number 182, amendments for window transparency. Request amendments to the zoning code and specific plan number 182. Squa exempt staff recommendation recommends city council approval. Staff Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, this again is another item that was directed by the city council. Uh, it was done so on June 24th of 2025, and the council asked staff to analyze a potential zoning code and specific plan 182 amendments, uh, to focus on medical and healthcare providers and whether or not um, they should be exempt from uh, window transparency regulations in order to achieve patient privacy and confidentiality. Uh under current regulations, uh we allow um uh window blinds. Uh we allow window tinting. Uh we don't allow uh fully non-transparent windows. Um so if windows are to be obscured, uh no more than 15% of the window area is allowed to be obscured. And additionally uh as part of the analysis, staff did identify that window signs uh also have an exemption. The window sign exemption is uh for 50% of the total window area. So we identified that as a discrepancy in the code that we need to address the difference between the 15% and 5050%. So I have what I think is a great code compliance case study here that very well illustrates uh the issue that we're discussing. Uh this is 1242 East Main Street. Uh you can see here in uh December of 2020 uh this was a dentist office. Uh the dentist office uh at that time had window blinds and some light window tinting uh in full compliance with zoning regulations.

So here we have in March of 2023 um the uh window blinds and tinting have been replaced with what we call window decals. So the window decals covering uh 100% of the windows uh were identified as a violation of the zoning code and code compliance took action uh and ask them to remove and reduce the window decals. So here in October of 2025 uh you can see that the window decals have been reduced uh down to 50%. uh we agreed uh to I should say code compliance agreed to uh the 50% limitation as shown here based on uh the window signage limitation as opposed to uh the 15% limitation. Uh and then the window tinting that was done here was uh still um transparent so you could still see see through the window tinting. So in the agenda report we did a survey of uh 15 uh healthcare and dental providers along major thoroughares. Uh what we observed was about 33% of those uh were just using uh window blinds and and window tinting. Um in general I would say that u the majority of the health care offices that are out there were designed for the purpose of providing health care. So they don't have a lot of windows that are facing towards let's say East Main Street or Broadway. Uh really the issue that we're seeing is when uh a existing retail building uh that was constructed for retail purposes is being repurposed into uh a medical or dental office and that's where we're seeing the demand for uh using the window decals. Um overall when you look at the attachments staff's observations were that the uh use of window tinting uh o overall doesn't detract from the architectural design of these buildings. So the darker windows um weren't really

an issue. Um so uh so looking at that uh staff was in support of using uh dark window tinting or solid um we classified it not as black window tinting but as a dark window tinting uh so that uh they could maintain patient privacy. Uh, additionally, in the proposed uh, code changes, uh, we did identify, like I said earlier, that the discrepancy between 15% for windows being obscured as opposed to the 50% for uh, window signs. And so, we're recommending uh, that the planning commission recommended the city council to reduce the window signage to be consistent with the uh, 15% limitation for obscuring windows. So staff's recommendation is that the planning commission recommend approval of the amendments to the zoning code and specific plan 182. Essentially that would allow solid dark window tinting for medical and healthcare providers but still require uh all of their uses to maintain uh a maximum of 50% uh transparency. So that concludes my presentation. Happy to answer any questions. First question is uh why would we allow blinds to cover 100% of window and not a decal? And I understand that both of them are with the view of um protecting patients privacy. Maybe it's because of the era I grew up in, but vertical blinds are just ugly.

Uh I think the main challenge just going back it I think the intent of what the way the code was designed was to avoid situations like this where you have window decals covering 100% of the windows. Um so you know the use of blinds um behind a window being typically of white or or different colors uh really don't detract from the architectural design of the building. So I I think I would rely heavily on the um the window decal issue uh being kind of what is most important from uh just a community design perspective.

Okay, other questions. Okay, no questions. Let's u open public hearing. I move to open the public hearing. Okay. Motion by Commissioner Sautille, second by Commissioner Pollock Rude. Please vote. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. Any uh speaker cards? I have no speaker cards for this item.

I move to close public hear. Motion made by Commissioner Sil, seconded by Commissioner Pic. Please vote. Mr. Edison, I don't see your vote yet. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

Well, I don't I don't see anything glaring on this situation unless you want to see through a window. The the big question is uh I see in our our report the change for specific plan number number 182 uh three adding the exemption. Um are we also making the change to the window signs to be reduced down to 15% 15 instead of 50? uh there's no need to change uh specific plan 182 because it doesn't the specific plan doesn't address that. And so when the specific plan uh doesn't address something, it reverts back to the zoning code. Um so it's only necessary to change the zoning code.

Okay. And are I didn't see that zoning code change. Is it all the way at the end of all the pictures? Oh, I was looking for that. So, it's included in exhibit A for the zoning code amendment. There's a a second uh on the agenda packet. It's page 38 of the PDF where we're changing 50% to 15. Oh, there we go. There's two. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

Any other questions? Okay. I I make a motion. I move to adopt the next resolution in order recommending city council approval or proposed zoning code and specific plan number 182 amendments. I second. Motion by Commissioner Sautille, second by Commissioner Ciro. Please vote. And motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. Any other items for consideration, staff communication?

Uh I do have one. Uh I would like to invite uh the planning commission to attend uh next Tuesday's city council meeting on October 14th. Uh October is community planning month and uh the planning or the city council uh will have a proclamation in honor of community planning month to honor the hard work uh that all of you do as part of the planning commission. So, if you're able to join at 3 PM at the beginning of the meeting, we would love to honor and acknowledge the hard work that you do. Thank you. Thank you.

Do we have any updates on uh the crematorium? I noticed that the vehicles that are parked out there seem to have been rearranged, but I haven't seen whether there's any movement on the building itself. Uh the last time I spoke with the developer for the project, uh they said that they were working on getting bids from contractors. Uh the permits were all ready to go and everything had been worked out. So uh but I didn't have any additional follow-up. So I would assume that they're still in the process of of hiring contractors. Thanks.

Commissioner reports. Well, I move to uh adjourn the meeting to October 21st, 2025 at 7 pm. Okay. Motion by Commissioner Sautille, second by Commissioner Pock RDE. Please vote. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.